September 2, 2024 • 39 mins
What does it take to navigate the complex world of international agricultural trade? Join us as we explore the fascinating career of Olutayo Akingbe, a dedicated Foreign Service Officer with the USDA’s Foreign Agriculture Service. Discover how Olutayo’s role as the eyes and ears of the USDA at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo involves promoting U.S. agricultural exports, conducting market intelligence, and overcoming intricate regulatory challenges, such as facilitating the import of U.S. kosher beef jerky into Israel. Olutayo’s insightful stories offer a behind-the-scenes look at the crucial collaboration between U.S. officers and local staff in achieving these goals.
Ever wondered what it’s like to represent the United States abroad? Olutayo shares her personal and professional journey, from rigorous training in Washington, D.C., to securing overseas assignments in diverse locations like Egypt and Canada. Learn about the complexities of bidding for positions, the necessity of language training, and the extensive preparation required for each role. Olutayo candidly discusses the balance between professional duties and personal life, highlighting both the rewards and challenges of her role.
Curious about a career in international affairs? Olutayo's path from studying at UPenn and Columbia University to discovering the FAS through networking and fellowship opportunities provides valuable insights. Hear about her experiences working with NGOs, the importance of relationships, and the benefits of diverse experiences in shaping a successful international career. Olutayo's passion for mentoring and preparing the next generation of diverse Foreign Service Officers shines through, emphasizing the critical need for diversity and representation in leadership within the Foreign Service. This episode is a must-listen for anyone aspiring to make a global impact.
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The thoughts, views, and opinions expressed on Career Cheat Code are those of the individual guests and do not necessarily reflect those of the host, affiliated organizations & employers. This podcast is intended for informational and inspirational purposes, highlighting the guests and their unique career journeys. We hope these stories inspire you to chase your purpose, define success on your own terms & take the next step in your career.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is a huge undertaking.
It's not for the faint of heart.
It's.
You are, you know, giving yourlife and your career to the US
government.
So people who want to pursuethis career, it's very, very,
very rewarding professionally,personally, but it's not easy.
Like you're basically movingaway from your family, from your
home base, living overseas.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to Career Cheat Code.
In this podcast, you'll hearhow everyday people impact the
world through their careers.
Learn about their journey,career hacks and obstacles along
the way.
Whether you're already havingthe impact you want or are
searching for it, this is thepodcast for you.
All right, so, tayo, welcome tothe show.
Thank you, happy to be here.
Thanks for taking the time todo this.
(00:41):
Let's dive right in.
Let's tell the world who youare and what it is you do for a
living.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Okay, sure, my name is Tayua Kingbay.
I work for the ForeignAgriculture Service within the
Department of Agriculture, usda.
So FAS, the Foreign AgricultureService, it's a small and
mighty agency.
We're the trade arm pretty muchof the US Department of
Agriculture, so our job is topromote US agricultural exports
(01:07):
to the rest of the world, so wepromote trade and global food
security.
I work there as a foreignservice officer and I've been
with FAS for about eight yearsalmost nine years and we'll
probably get into this but Ikind of have two roles right now
.
So I'm a foreign serviceofficer but I'm also on a DC
assignment as a climate advisorfor the Foreign Ag Service.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Great, so let's start with your foreign service
officer role.
What does that mean?
How does one become a one, andwhat are you actually tasked
with doing?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah, so foreign service.
So there are actually sixagencies that have a foreign
service.
So State Department is themajor one that people know about
, usaid, department of Commerceand USDA has one as well, which
a lot of people don't know about.
So to be a foreign serviceofficer, it's the same thing
where you work overseas at a USembassy, but for foreign ag
(01:57):
service, we are basically theeyes, hands, ears of USDA at
whatever foreign service orwhatever embassy that we are
posted in.
For me, I did one tour at theUS embassy in Cairo from 2019 to
2022.
And there our job was topromote US exports of
agriculture to Egypt and alsothe region, because my office
(02:20):
was a regional post.
It was based in Cairo, but wecover Jordan, israel, syria,
lebanon and Iraq.
So that's it in a nutshell, butit can mean all sorts of things
.
So we do market intelligence,we do ag reporting, we do
capacity building projects.
So, depending on where you'reposted, we do all sorts of
(02:43):
things.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
So what does that mean?
So you go to Cairo and is yourrole to represent the dairy
industry or the meat industryfrom New York I mean from the
United States in that country.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yep, exactly.
So we work closely withcooperators based in the US, or
some of them have officesoverseas but, yeah, we're
working for the meat industry,the dairy industry, grains
industry US Rice, us Rice, usGrains Council.
There's so many differentcooperators that represent US
agriculture, that represent USfarmers and ranchers, so we are,
(03:14):
we work, in partnership withthem to promote their goods
overseas in the markets thatwe're located so interesting,
right, because I think sospecifically for me.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Right, like I'm traveling soon and I'll be in
another country, and if you seeimports that you're like, oh,
this is made in America, likethere's someone working to like
make that happen, and we justdon't even give it much thought.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yes, yes, I'm glad you said that yeah, so look out
for.
US products in markets orgrocery stores in different
countries.
So that is a part of our joband sometimes, you know so, our,
you know our job is to promotetrade.
You know trade is good for theUS economy, for the global
economy and sometimes there's,you know, there could be
barriers to trade and so we'rethere trying to make sure those
(03:53):
barriers are don't inhibit USexports in different countries.
So that's, yeah, working onworking with the host government
to on different trade policies,on different ag policies, but
all to represent US farmers andranchers in the US.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
So, in this particular role, do you have a
favorite project that you'veworked on that you're like?
I'm really proud that we wereable to do this in this country.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah, so there's one that we worked on that was
actually pretty monumental, atleast from my experience.
So in Israel we worked with aUS exporter that wanted to
export US beef jerky kosher beefjerky to Israel.
(04:35):
So there was not a market forimporting beef jerky in Israel
at all.
The way the government works isthat there's one agency like,
just like the US, we haveagencies that work on food
safety.
We have agencies that work onall the different kind of
regulations for food products toend up on the shelves.
(04:56):
So in Israel it was like twodifferent agencies or two
different ministries that had ahand in beef jerky.
So you're working on is it ameat product?
Is it a processed product?
So it's like.
So our job really was to kindof get them to work together to
figure out, okay, what is theregulation that needs to be put
in place so that US beef jerkycan get into the country, and so
(05:18):
that was like a two to threeyear project of like working
with the industry.
So a lot of the stuff thatwe're working on it's very like
slow moving, but once it it, itworks, it, it works, and so then
we have so now we, you can seeUS beef, kosher beef jerky in
Israel.
So that's one that I worked onwhile I was there, that I was
(05:39):
pretty proud of, and I do wantto say that.
So we have US Foreign Serviceofficers who work in the
embassies overseas, but we alsohave a very talented, huge
number of local staff that workin the country.
So, you know, I was workingwith our local employees, our
Israeli employees, to work onthis project.
Or if I'm in Egypt, it's, yeah,working with our Egyptian
(06:01):
employees.
So they're the ones who really,you know, have the contacts,
they're the ones who are kind ofworking within their ministries
to make a lot of these thingshappen.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
That's awesome.
So how do you actually get todo this, right?
So, like, when you walk in on aMonday, like what is your like
week?
Look like, how do you actuallymake these things happen?
Because you just told me aboutan opportunity where you were
able to, like, basically helpcreate a market.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Right, like, that's not Right right, exactly, yeah,
so it's a lot of with that.
It could be just a lot of phonecalls, a lot of meetings, a lot
of emails, conversations.
So one of the biggest thingsabout being a foreign service
officer is that you know you'rea diplomat, you're, you are
working, you're working, you'rediplomatic channels, you're, you
are using your diplomaticskills and those kind of social
(06:43):
skills to at least for USForeign Service officers, for
the US government.
So it's a lot of thoseintangible conversations that
are happening.
A lot of phone calls, meetings,things like that.
So that could be on a typicalday.
And then also US Department ofAgriculture puts out I think
it's the Global AgriculturalInformation Network.
(07:05):
Yes, gain, g-a-i-n.
You can Google it.
It's one of one of our like ourbread and butter, of what we
put out there.
So we're doing reports on theagricultural situation in
different countries.
So that's something that I'mworking on.
So, for example, in Egypt, weput out a report on the grape
industry, like, okay, what didtheir harvest look like this
year?
What are their exports andimports looking like?
(07:27):
How much are they processing,how much are they consuming in
countries?
So these are the reporting thatwe do for all sorts of
commodities and we do this allover the world and it's public
information so anyone can lookthose up.
So that's also during like mytypical work day, working with
the local staff on that.
And then, depending on the post,we do like marketing activities
(07:50):
, marketing programs, so itcould be working at a trade show
or something like that, soworking with our cooperators
there.
So we have trade shows all overthe world.
We have agricultural trademissions.
We usually have like a seniorlevel USDA, a senior leader at
USDA go and lead a trade missionin a different country.
(08:10):
So they're bringing a wholebunch of US businesses to the
country.
Like, say, recently we had onein Canada.
I think there's one going on inColumbia, like next month, one
in Vietnam coming up in a couplemonths.
And so we, those of us who areon the ground, we're helping
create those business tobusiness meetings, setting up
meetings with different buyers.
(08:31):
So yeah, that's just to touchon some of the things that we do
as ag foreign service officers.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
That's great.
So what's your favorite part ofyour role?
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I would say, I mean it's I like what it's just so
interesting.
Let's say that, like I think,for me, just as a person who I
guess intellectually curious,you know, it's just something
that, like, every day it'ssomething new.
Food and ag is, you know,fundamental to the world.
Like you need food to eat, likeit's everyone relies on
(09:03):
agriculture.
So I think, yeah, I would justsay like it's just super
interesting.
Each day, I think that's whatit is, and every day I'm doing
something different.
I work with just stellaremployees, like I I mean, in my
career, I mean, I've had somereally great jobs, but the
people I work with at FAS are sodedicated and they're so smart
(09:23):
and so on top of their game.
That keeps me like veryinterested every, every day when
I do my job.
And then, yeah, just working onthese very, very important
issues supporting US farmers andranchers yeah, yeah, it's
pretty interesting.
And then, now that I'm inWashington, I also work on our
(09:44):
climate change portfolio.
So, working on food,agriculture and climate issues
all very important things.
So, yeah, I think that's whatkeeps me going.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Is that the second, like the dual role that you
mentioned, and tell me moreabout that.
Like, what do you actually taskwith doing there and how does
one have two roles basically?
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Exactly yeah.
You asked me what you're doingthere.
How does one have two roles?
Basically, exactly yeah.
So as a foreign service officer, you know, you, you start at
least at FAS.
I think each agency does it alittle different, but at FAS you
come on.
At least how I started is I cameon as a foreign service trainee
.
You work in Washington for alittle bit and then you go on to
your, you go overseas afteryou're trained up and you go
(10:24):
overseas and become an attacheand then from there you, you do
at FAS.
It's three to four year tours.
After you're done with yourtour, you can bid on another
country that you want to live in.
For me, I bid on to come backto Washington.
So I've been in Washington on ayeah, on a domestic tour, is
what you call it.
Yeah, so as a domestic ForeignService officer, you're still
working on the mission of foodand agricultural trade, but in
(10:50):
Washington it's like you pick upa role where there's a need,
and so here there was a positionavailable to work on FAS and
USDA's climate strategy, workingon a lot of our climate goals,
and so that's how I took on thisrole.
I was coming back from Egyptand I was like okay, this looks
(11:12):
good.
So then I started that.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Okay, so as a foreign service officer, you typically
are not based here, you're basedforeign somewhere.
So you represent the UnitedStates in another country.
So tell me more about the toursthat you've done and how that
process goes right, because itseems like a big undertaking to
leave your house, to leave yourfamily, to leave your friends
(11:35):
and say I'm going to go and staysomewhere for a couple of years
in a whole nother country thatI've never been to.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Exactly.
Yeah, it is a huge undertaking.
It's not for the faint of heart.
You are giving your life andyour career to the US government
.
So people who want to pursuethis career, it's very, very,
very rewarding professionally,personally, but it's not easy.
You're basically moving awayfrom your family, from your home
(12:01):
base, living overseas.
For me personally, I've onlydone one tour, one official tour
in Egypt.
I did do a short-term detailassignment in Ottawa, canada.
That was also very rewarding.
So basically, when you apply tothe Foreign Service, you work in
Washington, at least forForeign Ag Service.
You work in Washington for abit and then each fall there's
(12:24):
what they call a bid list andthey have all the different
countries where there'spositions available and then you
bid on it like any type of jobapplication.
So if you see a position inTokyo or in New Delhi or Seoul
or Bogota, like you, just yousee whatever position, what
cities are available, you rankthem, which ones that you want
(12:46):
to do most, and it's kind oflike a matchmaking.
So their senior leadershiptakes a look at who are the
officers, where are they biddingand where would be the best fit
, and then within I think, likewithin a couple months or less
than they make their decision,and then you're off within the
next year, or two years,depending on if it's a hard
language post.
So for me, I was in Cairo.
(13:07):
I had to spend a year learningArabic before I could go
overseas, so that was also fun.
So that's also a perk of thejob.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
No, absolutely.
I mean, it's a perk but it'salso a lot of responsibility,
right.
So, like I remember, when wefirst met, it was at the
International Career AdvancementProgram, so ICAP, and there
were a good.
It was during the fall, sothere were a good number of
folks going through that processin that moment and folks were
because you're talking to peoplethroughout the world, right,
like some people had calls atlike midnight because they're
(13:37):
talking to someone in Tokyo orsomething right, and it's like
that matchmaking process isintense, it's condensed and it's
very much you positioningyourself to rank the way that I
understood it.
You rank the placements thatyou would prefer and then they
tell you where you rank for themas well, so you're able to have
that conversation, but it's anintense process.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
It is very intense.
It's a lot of conversations.
I remember when I did itno-transcript.
(14:31):
Is it a country where yourpartner can have a position
there too?
Can they continue their careerthere?
If you have children, okay.
Is it a country where they havegood schools for your kids?
So it's like it's not onlymatchmaking for okay, this, I
want to work in this countrybecause they're working on these
issues and I'm interested inthat.
But it's like, okay, is it aplace where I can live, where I
(14:52):
can thrive, where my family canthrive?
So it's a lot to take intoconsideration.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Absolutely and, as you said, right, just you know,
I've never had a job where I hadto do some homework for a year
before I got it.
So, like you just said, youhave to learn Arabic for a year
before you went out there.
That's never going to happen inmy career, so it's just
fascinating that that's part ofit.
But you need that if you'regoing to go and represent the
United States properly, and youneed to do a lot of homework on
the country and on theindustries and on what's
(15:18):
happening on the ground beforeyou get there.
You can't just get there andlearn it on the fly because
you're representing the UnitedStates, so it makes sense.
It's just something that, in mycareer path, is not something
that's common.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, and I did not know what I was getting myself
into when I joined the foreignservice.
But you kind of learn as you goand it can be an exciting time,
but it does mean you need to beflexible and, yeah, just
understand what comes with it.
So, like I had to learn Arabicfor a year.
It actually was.
Yeah, like you said, it's likewhat other career would you have
(15:50):
where you're getting paid tolearn a language, to sit and
learn a language for a year to apoint where you can be
conversational and, yeah, like,have those conversations with
counterparts?
Some people, like, depending onwhere you go and the people's
schedules and their timecommitment, some people end up
not taking language and justgoing out there and, just like,
(16:10):
you know what, I'll figure itout.
I don't recommend that routebecause, even if you don't
become fluent in the language,showing that you actually took
the time to learn a person or acountry's language, their
culture, like I said, likediplomacy is like the heart of
what we do, like that just paysdividends, you know so, even so,
(16:32):
for me, egyptians are like thewarmest people in the world and
Even, like, I'll say my littlebit of Arabic and they'll be
like oh my gosh, you speak sowell.
I've never heard such Arabic.
You know like, ok, I justcounted to 10, you know.
So it's just.
I think they appreciate it.
They know that Arabic is a veryhard language, very hard on so
(16:52):
many levels, but the fact thatyou know I took time to just try
to learn, yeah, it just openedso many doors and people
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Got it.
So how did you become a foreignservice officer, Like, is this
what you always wanted to do fora living?
Or how does how does onestumble upon now having
diplomatic responsibilities?
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Exactly Like.
How did this happen?
So I would say it wasn't a verystraight path I so I studied
international affairs inundergrad and grad school and I
knew I wanted to go into aninternational field.
I didn't know what exactly.
So it wasn't until like my lastyear in grad school, where I
did a project on the cashewindustry in Mozambique and I was
(17:35):
like, oh okay, this is what Iwant to do Agriculture, this is
so fun and so interesting.
So that's how I kind of fellinto agriculture and then I kind
of ended up in development fora little bit and I was working
for some, I guess you would say,like NGOs or USAID contractors,
(17:57):
but I knew I wanted to liveoverseas.
I knew that I wanted that to bepart of my career, part of my
life, because I was born andraised in Maryland, the DC area,
and I just wanted thatexperience and I was looking at
different avenues.
And it was actually through theICAP network, even though I
wasn't an ICAP alum at thatpoint.
(18:19):
There used to be like a jointlist served with this other
fellowship that I was part ofcalled the Institute for
International Public Policy,through the Department of
Education.
Unfortunately it doesn't existanymore, but it was a wonderful
organization.
That was a fellowship that Iwas part of, but IIPP and ICAP
used to have like kind of like asisterhood.
So, long story short, I was onthe ICAP listserv and an FAS
(18:42):
ICAP alum put out into thelistserv hey, they're hiring for
the foreign service at FAS, youknow, apply.
And so I'd known about FAS.
I was interested in the agencyitself, but I didn't know that
they had a foreign service.
And so I reached out to thatperson, who is still a dear
friend and colleague to this day, and I was like tell me about
this, what is this?
(19:02):
And so, yeah, so that's kind ofhow I fell into it.
I wouldn't have been able totell you at the beginning of my
career that this is where I'dend up, but it was just a matter
of getting the rightinformation at the right time.
I was looking to make a move.
I knew I wanted to liveoverseas, I knew I wanted to do
ag.
So it was kind of the perfect,yeah, opportunity at the perfect
(19:23):
time.
And so that's how I ended uphere.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
That makes sense.
And you know it sounded likeespecially if you went to get
your undergrad and grad schooldegree in international affairs,
right Like you had some sensethat you wanted to do something
generally in this space, butthen the exposure to ag kind of
just narrowed it down for you,right.
Tell me more about where didyou end up going to grad school
and do you feel like you gotwhat you needed out of it?
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yeah, so I went to Columbia University School of
International Public Affairs.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I know, I know Me too .
I just wanted you to say it.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Wait, I didn't know.
You went to SIPA.
Oh what?
Yes, yes, no-transcript.
(20:27):
Diversify the field ofinternational affairs and
leaders in that field.
But they start you young at,like your sophomore year of
college.
So that's how I became.
I came into the fellowship andpart of the fellowship was to.
You know, they finance aninternship overseas, they
finance a language immersionprogram, which I did in France
after grad school, but they alsopay for your grad school.
(20:48):
They pay for grad school, yeah,they pay for the fees for
school.
So because I knew I had thisfellowship, I knew I was going
to go to grad school.
I just went straight through.
So I applied to Columbia mysenior year of college and then
went straight through.
So I graduated.
And then to grad school I justwent straight through.
So I applied to Columbia mysenior year of college and then
went straight through.
So I graduated and then startedgrad school.
I do not recommend that forpeople, even though I feel like
(21:09):
my career has ended up prettywonderful.
I mean, I'm very satisfied withmy career, but I could have
gotten more out of my gradschool experience if I had a
little bit of work experiencebefore starting grad school.
So I was, you know like 21, 22years old, with people who have
lived overseas, who've worked inthese agencies and worked all
over the world, and all I hadwas, yeah, my undergrad degree,
(21:33):
and I kind of treated gradschool as an extension of
undergrad, instead of realizinglike, oh, you know, there's so
many like intangible benefits ofbeing in grad school, like the
connections that you make.
You know that you're different,there's different students that
you're interacting with, but Iwas like, so focused on like, oh
, you know, I need to, you knowyour exams and all that is very
important, but I think I put toomuch emphasis on getting good
(21:54):
grades instead of like, hey,this person, you know, like
these people I'm working with,there's a lot I can get out of
that as well.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
So yeah, I hear you, I definitely.
You know.
I think grad school for thosethat are considering it, sure
grades matter.
More importantly is you knowwhat you actually functionally
take from that, and then alsothe network, for sure.
So I think by the time I wentbecause I was a few years
removed from school I was ableto like make sure that I was
really intentional aroundnetworking, going to the happy
(22:25):
hours after classes, connectingwith people.
You know you buildrelationships that like
afterwards like I've been tosome of these folks, like
weddings and maybe showers, andyou know from like, just from
like relationships that we buildin grad school, but like those
relationships matter, right?
Yeah, so you went from yourundergrad in an Ivy League at
(22:45):
UPenn right?
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yeah, upenn, yep, yep , upenn, Quakers.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
To then SIPA at Columbia University and then
you're graduating from there,and at the time, what did you
actually think you were going tobe able to do?
Speaker 1 (22:57):
So from there I was still yeah, I think I was still
figuring things out, I would saybefore I discovered
international affairs.
I went into college as like apoli-sci major, completely
thinking I was going into law,like I was going to go get a law
degree, like that's, you knowwhat you do.
Yeah, particularly as as aNigerian American I don't know
(23:18):
if you've heard those, you knowespecially like immigrant
families it's like, okay, you,doctor, lawyer, like you know,
there's very set paths for us.
So I thought I would do law.
So I actually thought that'skind of where I would end.
I was like, oh, maybe I can dolike international law or
something like that.
So after I graduated, I mean Iknew I needed a break from
school and I ended up, yeah,like I mentioned, doing that
(23:40):
senior thesis or that gradthesis on the value chain
assessment of cashews inMozambique, did that, and I
think I just ended up movingback home to the DC area and I
was like you know what?
This is a great place to startbeing, you know, at the seat of
government, washingtonc.
And yeah, I just startedapplying to different jobs in
(24:03):
agriculture and internationalaffairs and development was just
kind of just applying because,even though I had my graduate
degree, I had my Ivy Leaguedegree.
It was like I had no experience.
So, you know, I had to startsomewhere.
So my first job was with thisorganization called ACDI Boca,
which was phenomenal, like agreat place for me to land as
(24:23):
starting off my career and theydo agricultural development, and
that was my first job, but itwas like as a very entry level
position.
So I definitely had to likehumble myself and, like you know
, I have these Ivy Leaguedegrees or whatever.
But, yeah, I was making copiesand, you know, getting people's
mail, so that was how I started.
(24:43):
And then I think I just kind ofended up just building from
there and knowing that, yeah,it's just going to be a process,
you know, just getting theexperience and you know,
leveraging that to moreresponsibility.
And then, yeah, then yearslater, this is kind of how I,
how I ended up.
I think that answered yourquestion.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Absolutely, absolutely.
So what advice would you havefor people considering going
into foreign service oragriculture?
Specifically, what advice doyou think you know would have
been helpful to you when youwere younger, in your career?
Speaker 1 (25:13):
I would say I don't think I knew what the breadth of
career paths that wereavailable in international
affairs when I was younger, so,but now I mean, this is a
different time.
I don't know if LinkedIn wasaround when I started my career,
but maybe it was and maybe itwasn't as big as it is now.
But just yeah, just the factthat you have so many resources
(25:36):
to kind of figure out, like,what path do I want to take in
international affairs?
But if you're specificallyinterested in the foreign
service, definitely looking intothe different agencies that do
foreign service.
So there's State Department,which is more your traditional
route.
You can be a consular officerworking public affairs, working
on political and economicanalysis, or you can work in
(25:58):
commerce, which is just likeDepartment of Commerce, and
that's trade.
You could work at USAID, whichis development.
You could work at foreign agservices, where I work and work
on agriculture and agriculturaltrade.
Just knowing the differentavenues to the foreign service
that you don't have to take thetraditional State Department
route, there are many ways toenter the foreign service.
(26:19):
So, yeah, so I wish I'd knownthat earlier in my career.
And how to prepare, I thinkjust for me I would say, what
helped me a lot was talking topeople.
So that ICAP colleague who toldme about the foreign service
she put me in touch with so manypeople who could guide me into
because once you apply, you haveto do the foreign service
(26:40):
assessment, which is its ownthing, so it's like an oral
assessment or written exam.
It's a lot.
That's probably a whole otherconversation, but I'm happy to
talk to any listeners if theyhave any questions about that.
So talking to people who'vedone the assessment and could
kind of guide you through theseare the best practices.
This is what you should try todo.
This is what to expect.
There's also a lot of onlineguides that can help you walk
(27:02):
you through that process.
But definitely I mean I justcan't say it enough but like
relationships, relationship,relationships, networking
networking.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Networking is huge for this field.
For sure that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
What's the most challenging part of your role?
That's a good question, I wouldsay, for as a foreign service
officer, the professionally it'svery rewarding.
I would say personally it canbe.
You really have to thinkthrough like, ok, is this the
life for you?
So I would say it's.
It's.
It's challenging and yeah, likewhat we talked about before
uprooting yourself, being in adifferent country.
(27:37):
Me, I'm very close to my family.
I don't think I realized howclose I am to them until I was
away from them.
I was like this is hard, but Iwas like time zones away.
That was very hard for me.
But definitely, making the mostof my experience, it was
wonderful, but that was achallenge for me.
The Foreign Service can also bevery competitive.
So you're not only competingfor which countries you're going
(28:01):
to and then you can see, oh, Iwanted to go to this country, my
colleague got it instead.
So it was like but you're stillcolleagues, so should I be
happy for them?
But I'm also a little bitter.
So there's that part kind ofmanaging those relationships.
And then so there's the biddingpart and then the promotion
part is also very competitivebecause the Foreign Service is
(28:22):
designed after the military, soit's like up or out, so you only
have a certain amount of timeto get promoted before you can
be asked to exit the foreignservice.
So there's a lot of pressure tomake sure your write-ups are
good and make sure that you're.
You know you're doing the bestat your job so that it can be
reflected in your packet whenthe board meets to evaluate
(28:46):
everyone, and so you can be soexcellent at your job.
But you're also competing againwith your colleagues and then
you're, you're ranked againstthem.
So it's not you aren't, youknow, being evaluated just on
what you do.
It's on what you do compared toyour colleagues.
So I helped to open a market inIsrael, but you know someone
else was like did something evengreater, you know.
(29:06):
So then I couldn't.
You know you can be.
Depending on that, you could beranked lower.
So it's, it's super competitive.
That can be very delicatetrying to navigate that.
And it can be very frustratingwhere you think I should have
gotten promoted and you don't.
You know so, knowing that is anaspect of it, and you know
again, if you, this is thecareer that you want to get into
(29:27):
this this is part of the thingsyou have to deal with.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
That makes sense and you know, I, honestly, in some
ways it's reassuring that it isa difficult process, right?
Because you do want the best ofthe best, representing the
United States all over the world, so we kind of have a brand to
uphold.
So you know, I do appreciatethat it is competitive and that
it is, you know, challenging inthat way so that we have the
best out there in the world forus 100% Yep.
Yeah.
So I'm a big believer that youcan do good and do well.
(29:55):
So, as a foreign serviceofficer, what can folks expect
to make throughout their careers?
Speaker 1 (30:04):
So what I love about the foreign service and working
in the government in general isthat it's very transparent, like
what your pay is.
So these are things you canfind online on OPM's Office of
Personnel Management's websiteis the Foreign Service Scale and
the General GS Scale.
I think it's General ServicesScale.
So as a Foreign Service Officer, we go on an FS Scale, foreign
Service Scale.
So when you start for an agservice, once you get on the
(30:26):
plane and you're going overseas,you start off as in what they
call a class four.
So it goes four, three, two,one and then you go into senior
foreign service.
So for class four, I want tosay the last time I checked it
was like the high 80s, so like87 to like 120.
So it's a range.
So you can see the whole rangecompletely transparent online.
(30:48):
So that's where you start andthen, yeah, as you get promoted,
you go, you know, from classthree to class two and then it
gets higher from there.
And then also I, you know,can't leave out some of the
perks of being in the foreignservice is, you know, you get
your housing paid for.
If you're in a hardship post,they give you rest and
relaxation benefit so you cancome home or go to another
(31:11):
country to relax.
I guess you could say so you getthat benefit, you get what I
mean.
It's like a lot of technicalwords like post differential
COLA, like there's a lot ofdifferent financial incentives,
I mean.
And then depending on whereyou're going like the harder the
country it is or I would, yeah,try not to use that word hard,
but like how different I guessthe country is from the United
(31:31):
States then you have likedifferent financial benefits as
an incentive for you to work inthat country.
So you know, if you're workingin Paris versus Islamabad, like
there's different pay scalethat's on top of your salary.
So those are the things you canconsider as a foreign service
officer.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I love that everything is transparent and
also that you mentioned some ofthe perks of you know you may be
making $87,000 or $90,000, butyou're also not paying for
housing, right.
So you can actually pocket alot of the funds and, like you
know, if you're financiallysavvy and careful, you can
actually make a good livingdoing this.
That's great.
(32:07):
Are there any forms of mediabooks, podcasts, things that you
have consumed that you thinkhave helped you personally or
professionally?
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Yeah, I would say okay.
So I guess the last few years,particularly being in Egypt and
being away from my family andall of that like mental health
and self-care, has been a verylike just kind of top of mind
for me, not as much as it hadbefore in my career.
So I think, being cause also asa foreign service officer, I
(32:35):
think it's across the board inany country you're working a lot
.
It's it's a lot because you'rerepresenting the U?
S government, so there kind ofsometimes can might not be an
off button.
So sometimes you're workingduring the weekends.
If you have like a, a majorvisitor come, like we had, like
had like Secretary of StateBlinken, come to our country.
So it's like you know it's allhands on deck so it's a lot of,
(32:56):
it could be a lot of work.
So I've been kind of workingpersonally a lot on my own
personal like boundaries withwork and self-care.
So I would say one podcast Ilove is called Therapy for Black
Girls.
I don't know if you've heardabout this.
I know this.
It says Therapy for Black Girls.
I don't know if you've heardabout this.
I know it says therapy forBlack girls, but anyone can
listen to it, but it does comefrom that perspective of the
particular challenges that Blackwomen face in the world and
(33:20):
careers and everything.
Love that podcast.
I share it with all mygirlfriends, but, yeah, anyone
can listen to it and I knowanyone could get a lot out of it
.
So that's a weekly podcast.
A book that I've read recentlyit's called Self-Compassion.
Sorry, oh my gosh, I was likeI'm thinking of the word
self-compassion by Dr KristenNeff, about how to be kind to
(33:41):
yourself and just givingyourself grace.
So those two, I would say, helpme personally, which does have
ramifications for professionallyas well.
So therapy for Black girls andself-compassion, I would say,
yeah, those would be myrecommendations for folks and
that's what's gotten me.
I've gotten a lot out of those.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
What do you strive for in this type of career?
And I say that because I thinkwhere we were in our fellowship
together, there were folks thatvery much had their eyes on like
at some point, I would like tobe an ambassador At some point,
I would like to be this hadtheir eyes on like, at some
point, I would like to be anambassador At some point, I
would like to be this like whatare some of the things to look
forward to in this type ofcareer that you can grow into?
And you know, depending on whatagency, what path you choose.
But just so we have a sense ofwhat what folks can actually
(34:23):
work towards.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yeah, so that's exactly it Like.
So, within for the foreignservice, yeah, hopefully, if you
have a successful career, youkeep getting promotions and then
you get into the Senior ForeignService, which is where you're
one of the leaders in youragency for the Foreign Service
You're helping to set vision andstrategy for the Foreign
Service, for the agency in andof itself, and then from there,
(34:46):
so mostly to become ambassador.
I think it's mostly StateDepartment who go that route,
but other agencies are able tobecome ambassadors.
So for foreign service, forforeign ag service, we've had
quite a number of people who'vereached that rank of ambassador.
I think like three or four, ifnot more, have reached that rank
(35:06):
of ambassador.
So that's where you can go inyour career.
And I will say also for foreignservice, because it is kind of
structured after the militaryand it's up and out, you are
required to retire by age 65.
So the month of the year thatyou turn 65, you are, you're out
, you're retired, you're retiredfrom the foreign service and so
(35:27):
you want to make the most outof your career before you reach
that stage.
And then most people because 65is still pretty young, like you
know, if you're stillable-bodied, and you know most
people decide to start a secondcareer at that point.
You know you have so muchexperience and particularly
working with US farmers andranchers and those cooperators,
you can work, as I've seen a lotof people who've worked as
consultants for these industriesand still have their hand in
(35:50):
food and ag after they retire,after they finish their foreign
service career.
So, I would say those are waysor paths you can do once you're
in the foreign service and youwant to move up.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
That makes sense.
So leadership within the agencyand then so what is an
ambassador?
What do you get to do as anambassador?
That's different from a foreignservice officer.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Oh, yeah, it's a lot of responsibility, but you are
the president's representativein that country, so you are the
leader of the embassy.
You're a leader of the mission,so you are the highest ranking
official in the embassy in thatcountry.
So you are meeting with theheads of the host government of
(36:32):
the country that you're in.
So you're making the decisionsfor the mission or on behalf of
the US government.
It's pretty prestigious tobecome an ambassador.
Yeah, you're setting the tone.
And then also, I would say,because each embassy is like a
microcosm of the US government,so you have all the different
(36:53):
agencies.
So, for example, in Cairo, youknow, we had representatives of
DOD, of agriculture, of commerce, of all the different
government agencies.
So you, as the ambassador, arethe head of all of that, of just
how all these different areasor sections are achieving their
mission and making sure that iswithin the overall US embassy's
mission as well in that country.
(37:15):
So it's a pretty cool gig ifyou make it to that level.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Okay, is there anything else wehaven't discussed today that
the world should know about you?
Oh, that's a good question.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
I mean, as you can see, like I am passionate about
my career, or this career thatI'm in in foreign service, in
agriculture.
I'm also pretty passionate likehow we met in ICAP, which is
preparing particularly people ofcolor and diversifying
leadership within internationalaffairs.
I'm very passionate about thatas well.
(37:49):
Yeah, I'm passionate aboutmaking sure the Foreign Service
reflects the diversity of theUnited States.
So we and we're not there yet,we are definitely not there as
far as women, representation ofBlack representation, latino
representation, like it's.
It's not there yet.
(38:10):
And so I'm very, I'm verypassionate about that and making
sure that people who may not beaware that this is a career
path will know that this is anoption, and, um, and mentoring
other people to make sure thatthey know that this is an option
, to prepare them for it, tomake sure that they thrive in
this career.
So, yeah, definitely a huge,yeah, huge passion of mine.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Awesome, great, and I think you did a great job being
a steward of the industry todayand letting folks know that
this is a career path, that isan option and that folks should
actually just consider and justdo some research on and, you
know, hopefully get into thisfield as well.
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Yeah, no problem, thank you, and I reiterate if
people have any questions orwant to know more about this
career, definitely very happy toshare that.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Okay, thank you.
Well, thanks for joining ustoday.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you did and believe on themission we're on, please like,
rate and subscribe to thispodcast on whatever platform
you're using, and share thispodcast with your friends and
your networks.
Make sure you follow us onInstagram and LinkedIn at career
cheat code and tell us peopleor careers you would like to see
highlighted.
See you next week with somemore cheat codes.
Peace.
It is a huge undertaking.
It's not for the faint of heart.
It's.
You are, you know, giving yourlife and your career to the US
government.
So people who want to pursuethis career, it's very, very,
very rewarding professionally,personally, but it's not easy.
Like you're basically movingaway from your family, from your
home base, living overseas.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to Career Cheat Code.
In this podcast, you'll hearhow everyday people impact the
world through their careers.
Learn about their journey,career hacks and obstacles along
the way.
Whether you're already havingthe impact you want or are
searching for it, this is thepodcast for you.
All right, so, tayo, welcome tothe show.
Thank you, happy to be here.
Thanks for taking the time todo this.
(00:41):
Let's dive right in.
Let's tell the world who youare and what it is you do for a
living.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Okay, sure, my name is Tayua Kingbay.
I work for the ForeignAgriculture Service within the
Department of Agriculture, usda.
So FAS, the Foreign AgricultureService, it's a small and
mighty agency.
We're the trade arm pretty muchof the US Department of
Agriculture, so our job is topromote US agricultural exports
(01:07):
to the rest of the world, so wepromote trade and global food
security.
I work there as a foreignservice officer and I've been
with FAS for about eight yearsalmost nine years and we'll
probably get into this but Ikind of have two roles right now
.
So I'm a foreign serviceofficer but I'm also on a DC
assignment as a climate advisorfor the Foreign Ag Service.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Great, so let's start with your foreign service
officer role.
What does that mean?
How does one become a one, andwhat are you actually tasked
with doing?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah, so foreign service.
So there are actually sixagencies that have a foreign
service.
So State Department is themajor one that people know about
, usaid, department of Commerceand USDA has one as well, which
a lot of people don't know about.
So to be a foreign serviceofficer, it's the same thing
where you work overseas at a USembassy, but for foreign ag
(01:57):
service, we are basically theeyes, hands, ears of USDA at
whatever foreign service orwhatever embassy that we are
posted in.
For me, I did one tour at theUS embassy in Cairo from 2019 to
2022.
And there our job was topromote US exports of
agriculture to Egypt and alsothe region, because my office
(02:20):
was a regional post.
It was based in Cairo, but wecover Jordan, israel, syria,
lebanon and Iraq.
So that's it in a nutshell, butit can mean all sorts of things
.
So we do market intelligence,we do ag reporting, we do
capacity building projects.
So, depending on where you'reposted, we do all sorts of
(02:43):
things.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
So what does that mean?
So you go to Cairo and is yourrole to represent the dairy
industry or the meat industryfrom New York I mean from the
United States in that country.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yep, exactly.
So we work closely withcooperators based in the US, or
some of them have officesoverseas but, yeah, we're
working for the meat industry,the dairy industry, grains
industry US Rice, us Rice, usGrains Council.
There's so many differentcooperators that represent US
agriculture, that represent USfarmers and ranchers, so we are,
(03:14):
we work, in partnership withthem to promote their goods
overseas in the markets thatwe're located so interesting,
right, because I think sospecifically for me.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Right, like I'm traveling soon and I'll be in
another country, and if you seeimports that you're like, oh,
this is made in America, likethere's someone working to like
make that happen, and we justdon't even give it much thought.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yes, yes, I'm glad you said that yeah, so look out
for.
US products in markets orgrocery stores in different
countries.
So that is a part of our joband sometimes, you know so, our,
you know our job is to promotetrade.
You know trade is good for theUS economy, for the global
economy and sometimes there's,you know, there could be
barriers to trade and so we'rethere trying to make sure those
(03:53):
barriers are don't inhibit USexports in different countries.
So that's, yeah, working onworking with the host government
to on different trade policies,on different ag policies, but
all to represent US farmers andranchers in the US.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
So, in this particular role, do you have a
favorite project that you'veworked on that you're like?
I'm really proud that we wereable to do this in this country.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah, so there's one that we worked on that was
actually pretty monumental, atleast from my experience.
So in Israel we worked with aUS exporter that wanted to
export US beef jerky kosher beefjerky to Israel.
(04:35):
So there was not a market forimporting beef jerky in Israel
at all.
The way the government works isthat there's one agency like,
just like the US, we haveagencies that work on food
safety.
We have agencies that work onall the different kind of
regulations for food products toend up on the shelves.
(04:56):
So in Israel it was like twodifferent agencies or two
different ministries that had ahand in beef jerky.
So you're working on is it ameat product?
Is it a processed product?
So it's like.
So our job really was to kindof get them to work together to
figure out, okay, what is theregulation that needs to be put
in place so that US beef jerkycan get into the country, and so
(05:18):
that was like a two to threeyear project of like working
with the industry.
So a lot of the stuff thatwe're working on it's very like
slow moving, but once it it, itworks, it, it works, and so then
we have so now we, you can seeUS beef, kosher beef jerky in
Israel.
So that's one that I worked onwhile I was there, that I was
(05:39):
pretty proud of, and I do wantto say that.
So we have US Foreign Serviceofficers who work in the
embassies overseas, but we alsohave a very talented, huge
number of local staff that workin the country.
So, you know, I was workingwith our local employees, our
Israeli employees, to work onthis project.
Or if I'm in Egypt, it's, yeah,working with our Egyptian
(06:01):
employees.
So they're the ones who really,you know, have the contacts,
they're the ones who are kind ofworking within their ministries
to make a lot of these thingshappen.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
That's awesome.
So how do you actually get todo this, right?
So, like, when you walk in on aMonday, like what is your like
week?
Look like, how do you actuallymake these things happen?
Because you just told me aboutan opportunity where you were
able to, like, basically helpcreate a market.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Right, like, that's not Right right, exactly, yeah,
so it's a lot of with that.
It could be just a lot of phonecalls, a lot of meetings, a lot
of emails, conversations.
So one of the biggest thingsabout being a foreign service
officer is that you know you'rea diplomat, you're, you are
working, you're working, you'rediplomatic channels, you're, you
are using your diplomaticskills and those kind of social
(06:43):
skills to at least for USForeign Service officers, for
the US government.
So it's a lot of thoseintangible conversations that
are happening.
A lot of phone calls, meetings,things like that.
So that could be on a typicalday.
And then also US Department ofAgriculture puts out I think
it's the Global AgriculturalInformation Network.
(07:05):
Yes, gain, g-a-i-n.
You can Google it.
It's one of one of our like ourbread and butter, of what we
put out there.
So we're doing reports on theagricultural situation in
different countries.
So that's something that I'mworking on.
So, for example, in Egypt, weput out a report on the grape
industry, like, okay, what didtheir harvest look like this
year?
What are their exports andimports looking like?
(07:27):
How much are they processing,how much are they consuming in
countries?
So these are the reporting thatwe do for all sorts of
commodities and we do this allover the world and it's public
information so anyone can lookthose up.
So that's also during like mytypical work day, working with
the local staff on that.
And then, depending on the post,we do like marketing activities
(07:50):
, marketing programs, so itcould be working at a trade show
or something like that, soworking with our cooperators
there.
So we have trade shows all overthe world.
We have agricultural trademissions.
We usually have like a seniorlevel USDA, a senior leader at
USDA go and lead a trade missionin a different country.
(08:10):
So they're bringing a wholebunch of US businesses to the
country.
Like, say, recently we had onein Canada.
I think there's one going on inColumbia, like next month, one
in Vietnam coming up in a couplemonths.
And so we, those of us who areon the ground, we're helping
create those business tobusiness meetings, setting up
meetings with different buyers.
(08:31):
So yeah, that's just to touchon some of the things that we do
as ag foreign service officers.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
That's great.
So what's your favorite part ofyour role?
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I would say, I mean it's I like what it's just so
interesting.
Let's say that, like I think,for me, just as a person who I
guess intellectually curious,you know, it's just something
that, like, every day it'ssomething new.
Food and ag is, you know,fundamental to the world.
Like you need food to eat, likeit's everyone relies on
(09:03):
agriculture.
So I think, yeah, I would justsay like it's just super
interesting.
Each day, I think that's whatit is, and every day I'm doing
something different.
I work with just stellaremployees, like I I mean, in my
career, I mean, I've had somereally great jobs, but the
people I work with at FAS are sodedicated and they're so smart
(09:23):
and so on top of their game.
That keeps me like veryinterested every, every day when
I do my job.
And then, yeah, just working onthese very, very important
issues supporting US farmers andranchers yeah, yeah, it's
pretty interesting.
And then, now that I'm inWashington, I also work on our
(09:44):
climate change portfolio.
So, working on food,agriculture and climate issues
all very important things.
So, yeah, I think that's whatkeeps me going.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Is that the second, like the dual role that you
mentioned, and tell me moreabout that.
Like, what do you actually taskwith doing there and how does
one have two roles basically?
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Exactly yeah.
You asked me what you're doingthere.
How does one have two roles?
Basically, exactly yeah.
So as a foreign service officer, you know, you, you start at
least at FAS.
I think each agency does it alittle different, but at FAS you
come on.
At least how I started is I cameon as a foreign service trainee
.
You work in Washington for alittle bit and then you go on to
your, you go overseas afteryou're trained up and you go
(10:24):
overseas and become an attacheand then from there you, you do
at FAS.
It's three to four year tours.
After you're done with yourtour, you can bid on another
country that you want to live in.
For me, I bid on to come backto Washington.
So I've been in Washington on ayeah, on a domestic tour, is
what you call it.
Yeah, so as a domestic ForeignService officer, you're still
working on the mission of foodand agricultural trade, but in
(10:50):
Washington it's like you pick upa role where there's a need,
and so here there was a positionavailable to work on FAS and
USDA's climate strategy, workingon a lot of our climate goals,
and so that's how I took on thisrole.
I was coming back from Egyptand I was like okay, this looks
(11:12):
good.
So then I started that.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Okay, so as a foreign service officer, you typically
are not based here, you're basedforeign somewhere.
So you represent the UnitedStates in another country.
So tell me more about the toursthat you've done and how that
process goes right, because itseems like a big undertaking to
leave your house, to leave yourfamily, to leave your friends
(11:35):
and say I'm going to go and staysomewhere for a couple of years
in a whole nother country thatI've never been to.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Exactly.
Yeah, it is a huge undertaking.
It's not for the faint of heart.
You are giving your life andyour career to the US government
.
So people who want to pursuethis career, it's very, very,
very rewarding professionally,personally, but it's not easy.
You're basically moving awayfrom your family, from your home
(12:01):
base, living overseas.
For me personally, I've onlydone one tour, one official tour
in Egypt.
I did do a short-term detailassignment in Ottawa, canada.
That was also very rewarding.
So basically, when you apply tothe Foreign Service, you work in
Washington, at least forForeign Ag Service.
You work in Washington for abit and then each fall there's
(12:24):
what they call a bid list andthey have all the different
countries where there'spositions available and then you
bid on it like any type of jobapplication.
So if you see a position inTokyo or in New Delhi or Seoul
or Bogota, like you, just yousee whatever position, what
cities are available, you rankthem, which ones that you want
(12:46):
to do most, and it's kind oflike a matchmaking.
So their senior leadershiptakes a look at who are the
officers, where are they biddingand where would be the best fit
, and then within I think, likewithin a couple months or less
than they make their decision,and then you're off within the
next year, or two years,depending on if it's a hard
language post.
So for me, I was in Cairo.
(13:07):
I had to spend a year learningArabic before I could go
overseas, so that was also fun.
So that's also a perk of thejob.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
No, absolutely.
I mean, it's a perk but it'salso a lot of responsibility,
right.
So, like I remember, when wefirst met, it was at the
International Career AdvancementProgram, so ICAP, and there
were a good.
It was during the fall, sothere were a good number of
folks going through that processin that moment and folks were
because you're talking to peoplethroughout the world, right,
like some people had calls atlike midnight because they're
(13:37):
talking to someone in Tokyo orsomething right, and it's like
that matchmaking process isintense, it's condensed and it's
very much you positioningyourself to rank the way that I
understood it.
You rank the placements thatyou would prefer and then they
tell you where you rank for themas well, so you're able to have
that conversation, but it's anintense process.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
It is very intense.
It's a lot of conversations.
I remember when I did itno-transcript.
(14:31):
Is it a country where yourpartner can have a position
there too?
Can they continue their careerthere?
If you have children, okay.
Is it a country where they havegood schools for your kids?
So it's like it's not onlymatchmaking for okay, this, I
want to work in this countrybecause they're working on these
issues and I'm interested inthat.
But it's like, okay, is it aplace where I can live, where I
(14:52):
can thrive, where my family canthrive?
So it's a lot to take intoconsideration.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Absolutely and, as you said, right, just you know,
I've never had a job where I hadto do some homework for a year
before I got it.
So, like you just said, youhave to learn Arabic for a year
before you went out there.
That's never going to happen inmy career, so it's just
fascinating that that's part ofit.
But you need that if you'regoing to go and represent the
United States properly, and youneed to do a lot of homework on
the country and on theindustries and on what's
(15:18):
happening on the ground beforeyou get there.
You can't just get there andlearn it on the fly because
you're representing the UnitedStates, so it makes sense.
It's just something that, in mycareer path, is not something
that's common.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, and I did not know what I was getting myself
into when I joined the foreignservice.
But you kind of learn as you goand it can be an exciting time,
but it does mean you need to beflexible and, yeah, just
understand what comes with it.
So, like I had to learn Arabicfor a year.
It actually was.
Yeah, like you said, it's likewhat other career would you have
(15:50):
where you're getting paid tolearn a language, to sit and
learn a language for a year to apoint where you can be
conversational and, yeah, like,have those conversations with
counterparts?
Some people, like, depending onwhere you go and the people's
schedules and their timecommitment, some people end up
not taking language and justgoing out there and, just like,
(16:10):
you know what, I'll figure itout.
I don't recommend that routebecause, even if you don't
become fluent in the language,showing that you actually took
the time to learn a person or acountry's language, their
culture, like I said, likediplomacy is like the heart of
what we do, like that just paysdividends, you know so, even so,
(16:32):
for me, egyptians are like thewarmest people in the world and
Even, like, I'll say my littlebit of Arabic and they'll be
like oh my gosh, you speak sowell.
I've never heard such Arabic.
You know like, ok, I justcounted to 10, you know.
So it's just.
I think they appreciate it.
They know that Arabic is a veryhard language, very hard on so
(16:52):
many levels, but the fact thatyou know I took time to just try
to learn, yeah, it just openedso many doors and people
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Got it.
So how did you become a foreignservice officer, Like, is this
what you always wanted to do fora living?
Or how does how does onestumble upon now having
diplomatic responsibilities?
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Exactly Like.
How did this happen?
So I would say it wasn't a verystraight path I so I studied
international affairs inundergrad and grad school and I
knew I wanted to go into aninternational field.
I didn't know what exactly.
So it wasn't until like my lastyear in grad school, where I
did a project on the cashewindustry in Mozambique and I was
(17:35):
like, oh okay, this is what Iwant to do Agriculture, this is
so fun and so interesting.
So that's how I kind of fellinto agriculture and then I kind
of ended up in development fora little bit and I was working
for some, I guess you would say,like NGOs or USAID contractors,
(17:57):
but I knew I wanted to liveoverseas.
I knew that I wanted that to bepart of my career, part of my
life, because I was born andraised in Maryland, the DC area,
and I just wanted thatexperience and I was looking at
different avenues.
And it was actually through theICAP network, even though I
wasn't an ICAP alum at thatpoint.
(18:19):
There used to be like a jointlist served with this other
fellowship that I was part ofcalled the Institute for
International Public Policy,through the Department of
Education.
Unfortunately it doesn't existanymore, but it was a wonderful
organization.
That was a fellowship that Iwas part of, but IIPP and ICAP
used to have like kind of like asisterhood.
So, long story short, I was onthe ICAP listserv and an FAS
(18:42):
ICAP alum put out into thelistserv hey, they're hiring for
the foreign service at FAS, youknow, apply.
And so I'd known about FAS.
I was interested in the agencyitself, but I didn't know that
they had a foreign service.
And so I reached out to thatperson, who is still a dear
friend and colleague to this day, and I was like tell me about
this, what is this?
(19:02):
And so, yeah, so that's kind ofhow I fell into it.
I wouldn't have been able totell you at the beginning of my
career that this is where I'dend up, but it was just a matter
of getting the rightinformation at the right time.
I was looking to make a move.
I knew I wanted to liveoverseas, I knew I wanted to do
ag.
So it was kind of the perfect,yeah, opportunity at the perfect
(19:23):
time.
And so that's how I ended uphere.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
That makes sense.
And you know it sounded likeespecially if you went to get
your undergrad and grad schooldegree in international affairs,
right Like you had some sensethat you wanted to do something
generally in this space, butthen the exposure to ag kind of
just narrowed it down for you,right.
Tell me more about where didyou end up going to grad school
and do you feel like you gotwhat you needed out of it?
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yeah, so I went to Columbia University School of
International Public Affairs.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I know, I know Me too .
I just wanted you to say it.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Wait, I didn't know.
You went to SIPA.
Oh what?
Yes, yes, no-transcript.
(20:27):
Diversify the field ofinternational affairs and
leaders in that field.
But they start you young at,like your sophomore year of
college.
So that's how I became.
I came into the fellowship andpart of the fellowship was to.
You know, they finance aninternship overseas, they
finance a language immersionprogram, which I did in France
after grad school, but they alsopay for your grad school.
(20:48):
They pay for grad school, yeah,they pay for the fees for
school.
So because I knew I had thisfellowship, I knew I was going
to go to grad school.
I just went straight through.
So I applied to Columbia mysenior year of college and then
went straight through.
So I graduated.
And then to grad school I justwent straight through.
So I applied to Columbia mysenior year of college and then
went straight through.
So I graduated and then startedgrad school.
I do not recommend that forpeople, even though I feel like
(21:09):
my career has ended up prettywonderful.
I mean, I'm very satisfied withmy career, but I could have
gotten more out of my gradschool experience if I had a
little bit of work experiencebefore starting grad school.
So I was, you know like 21, 22years old, with people who have
lived overseas, who've worked inthese agencies and worked all
over the world, and all I hadwas, yeah, my undergrad degree,
(21:33):
and I kind of treated gradschool as an extension of
undergrad, instead of realizinglike, oh, you know, there's so
many like intangible benefits ofbeing in grad school, like the
connections that you make.
You know that you're different,there's different students that
you're interacting with, but Iwas like, so focused on like, oh
, you know, I need to, you knowyour exams and all that is very
important, but I think I put toomuch emphasis on getting good
(21:54):
grades instead of like, hey,this person, you know, like
these people I'm working with,there's a lot I can get out of
that as well.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
So yeah, I hear you, I definitely.
You know.
I think grad school for thosethat are considering it, sure
grades matter.
More importantly is you knowwhat you actually functionally
take from that, and then alsothe network, for sure.
So I think by the time I wentbecause I was a few years
removed from school I was ableto like make sure that I was
really intentional aroundnetworking, going to the happy
(22:25):
hours after classes, connectingwith people.
You know you buildrelationships that like
afterwards like I've been tosome of these folks, like
weddings and maybe showers, andyou know from like, just from
like relationships that we buildin grad school, but like those
relationships matter, right?
Yeah, so you went from yourundergrad in an Ivy League at
(22:45):
UPenn right?
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yeah, upenn, yep, yep , upenn, Quakers.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
To then SIPA at Columbia University and then
you're graduating from there,and at the time, what did you
actually think you were going tobe able to do?
Speaker 1 (22:57):
So from there I was still yeah, I think I was still
figuring things out, I would saybefore I discovered
international affairs.
I went into college as like apoli-sci major, completely
thinking I was going into law,like I was going to go get a law
degree, like that's, you knowwhat you do.
Yeah, particularly as as aNigerian American I don't know
(23:18):
if you've heard those, you knowespecially like immigrant
families it's like, okay, you,doctor, lawyer, like you know,
there's very set paths for us.
So I thought I would do law.
So I actually thought that'skind of where I would end.
I was like, oh, maybe I can dolike international law or
something like that.
So after I graduated, I mean Iknew I needed a break from
school and I ended up, yeah,like I mentioned, doing that
(23:40):
senior thesis or that gradthesis on the value chain
assessment of cashews inMozambique, did that, and I
think I just ended up movingback home to the DC area and I
was like you know what?
This is a great place to startbeing, you know, at the seat of
government, washingtonc.
And yeah, I just startedapplying to different jobs in
(24:03):
agriculture and internationalaffairs and development was just
kind of just applying because,even though I had my graduate
degree, I had my Ivy Leaguedegree.
It was like I had no experience.
So, you know, I had to startsomewhere.
So my first job was with thisorganization called ACDI Boca,
which was phenomenal, like agreat place for me to land as
(24:23):
starting off my career and theydo agricultural development, and
that was my first job, but itwas like as a very entry level
position.
So I definitely had to likehumble myself and, like you know
, I have these Ivy Leaguedegrees or whatever.
But, yeah, I was making copiesand, you know, getting people's
mail, so that was how I started.
(24:43):
And then I think I just kind ofended up just building from
there and knowing that, yeah,it's just going to be a process,
you know, just getting theexperience and you know,
leveraging that to moreresponsibility.
And then, yeah, then yearslater, this is kind of how I,
how I ended up.
I think that answered yourquestion.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Absolutely, absolutely.
So what advice would you havefor people considering going
into foreign service oragriculture?
Specifically, what advice doyou think you know would have
been helpful to you when youwere younger, in your career?
Speaker 1 (25:13):
I would say I don't think I knew what the breadth of
career paths that wereavailable in international
affairs when I was younger, so,but now I mean, this is a
different time.
I don't know if LinkedIn wasaround when I started my career,
but maybe it was and maybe itwasn't as big as it is now.
But just yeah, just the factthat you have so many resources
(25:36):
to kind of figure out, like,what path do I want to take in
international affairs?
But if you're specificallyinterested in the foreign
service, definitely looking intothe different agencies that do
foreign service.
So there's State Department,which is more your traditional
route.
You can be a consular officerworking public affairs, working
on political and economicanalysis, or you can work in
(25:58):
commerce, which is just likeDepartment of Commerce, and
that's trade.
You could work at USAID, whichis development.
You could work at foreign agservices, where I work and work
on agriculture and agriculturaltrade.
Just knowing the differentavenues to the foreign service
that you don't have to take thetraditional State Department
route, there are many ways toenter the foreign service.
(26:19):
So, yeah, so I wish I'd knownthat earlier in my career.
And how to prepare, I thinkjust for me I would say, what
helped me a lot was talking topeople.
So that ICAP colleague who toldme about the foreign service
she put me in touch with so manypeople who could guide me into
because once you apply, you haveto do the foreign service
(26:40):
assessment, which is its ownthing, so it's like an oral
assessment or written exam.
It's a lot.
That's probably a whole otherconversation, but I'm happy to
talk to any listeners if theyhave any questions about that.
So talking to people who'vedone the assessment and could
kind of guide you through theseare the best practices.
This is what you should try todo.
This is what to expect.
There's also a lot of onlineguides that can help you walk
(27:02):
you through that process.
But definitely I mean I justcan't say it enough but like
relationships, relationship,relationships, networking
networking.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Networking is huge for this field.
For sure that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
What's the most challenging part of your role?
That's a good question, I wouldsay, for as a foreign service
officer, the professionally it'svery rewarding.
I would say personally it canbe.
You really have to thinkthrough like, ok, is this the
life for you?
So I would say it's.
It's.
It's challenging and yeah, likewhat we talked about before
uprooting yourself, being in adifferent country.
(27:37):
Me, I'm very close to my family.
I don't think I realized howclose I am to them until I was
away from them.
I was like this is hard, but Iwas like time zones away.
That was very hard for me.
But definitely, making the mostof my experience, it was
wonderful, but that was achallenge for me.
The Foreign Service can also bevery competitive.
So you're not only competingfor which countries you're going
(28:01):
to and then you can see, oh, Iwanted to go to this country, my
colleague got it instead.
So it was like but you're stillcolleagues, so should I be
happy for them?
But I'm also a little bitter.
So there's that part kind ofmanaging those relationships.
And then so there's the biddingpart and then the promotion
part is also very competitivebecause the Foreign Service is
(28:22):
designed after the military, soit's like up or out, so you only
have a certain amount of timeto get promoted before you can
be asked to exit the foreignservice.
So there's a lot of pressure tomake sure your write-ups are
good and make sure that you're.
You know you're doing the bestat your job so that it can be
reflected in your packet whenthe board meets to evaluate
(28:46):
everyone, and so you can be soexcellent at your job.
But you're also competing againwith your colleagues and then
you're, you're ranked againstthem.
So it's not you aren't, youknow, being evaluated just on
what you do.
It's on what you do compared toyour colleagues.
So I helped to open a market inIsrael, but you know someone
else was like did something evengreater, you know.
(29:06):
So then I couldn't.
You know you can be.
Depending on that, you could beranked lower.
So it's, it's super competitive.
That can be very delicatetrying to navigate that.
And it can be very frustratingwhere you think I should have
gotten promoted and you don't.
You know so, knowing that is anaspect of it, and you know
again, if you, this is thecareer that you want to get into
(29:27):
this this is part of the thingsyou have to deal with.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
That makes sense and you know, I, honestly, in some
ways it's reassuring that it isa difficult process, right?
Because you do want the best ofthe best, representing the
United States all over the world, so we kind of have a brand to
uphold.
So you know, I do appreciatethat it is competitive and that
it is, you know, challenging inthat way so that we have the
best out there in the world forus 100% Yep.
Yeah.
So I'm a big believer that youcan do good and do well.
(29:55):
So, as a foreign serviceofficer, what can folks expect
to make throughout their careers?
Speaker 1 (30:04):
So what I love about the foreign service and working
in the government in general isthat it's very transparent, like
what your pay is.
So these are things you canfind online on OPM's Office of
Personnel Management's websiteis the Foreign Service Scale and
the General GS Scale.
I think it's General ServicesScale.
So as a Foreign Service Officer, we go on an FS Scale, foreign
Service Scale.
So when you start for an agservice, once you get on the
(30:26):
plane and you're going overseas,you start off as in what they
call a class four.
So it goes four, three, two,one and then you go into senior
foreign service.
So for class four, I want tosay the last time I checked it
was like the high 80s, so like87 to like 120.
So it's a range.
So you can see the whole rangecompletely transparent online.
(30:48):
So that's where you start andthen, yeah, as you get promoted,
you go, you know, from classthree to class two and then it
gets higher from there.
And then also I, you know,can't leave out some of the
perks of being in the foreignservice is, you know, you get
your housing paid for.
If you're in a hardship post,they give you rest and
relaxation benefit so you cancome home or go to another
(31:11):
country to relax.
I guess you could say so you getthat benefit, you get what I
mean.
It's like a lot of technicalwords like post differential
COLA, like there's a lot ofdifferent financial incentives,
I mean.
And then depending on whereyou're going like the harder the
country it is or I would, yeah,try not to use that word hard,
but like how different I guessthe country is from the United
(31:31):
States then you have likedifferent financial benefits as
an incentive for you to work inthat country.
So you know, if you're workingin Paris versus Islamabad, like
there's different pay scalethat's on top of your salary.
So those are the things you canconsider as a foreign service
officer.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I love that everything is transparent and
also that you mentioned some ofthe perks of you know you may be
making $87,000 or $90,000, butyou're also not paying for
housing, right.
So you can actually pocket alot of the funds and, like you
know, if you're financiallysavvy and careful, you can
actually make a good livingdoing this.
That's great.
(32:07):
Are there any forms of mediabooks, podcasts, things that you
have consumed that you thinkhave helped you personally or
professionally?
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Yeah, I would say okay.
So I guess the last few years,particularly being in Egypt and
being away from my family andall of that like mental health
and self-care, has been a verylike just kind of top of mind
for me, not as much as it hadbefore in my career.
So I think, being cause also asa foreign service officer, I
(32:35):
think it's across the board inany country you're working a lot
.
It's it's a lot because you'rerepresenting the U?
S government, so there kind ofsometimes can might not be an
off button.
So sometimes you're workingduring the weekends.
If you have like a, a majorvisitor come, like we had, like
had like Secretary of StateBlinken, come to our country.
So it's like you know it's allhands on deck so it's a lot of,
(32:56):
it could be a lot of work.
So I've been kind of workingpersonally a lot on my own
personal like boundaries withwork and self-care.
So I would say one podcast Ilove is called Therapy for Black
Girls.
I don't know if you've heardabout this.
I know this.
It says Therapy for Black Girls.
I don't know if you've heardabout this.
I know it says therapy forBlack girls, but anyone can
listen to it, but it does comefrom that perspective of the
particular challenges that Blackwomen face in the world and
(33:20):
careers and everything.
Love that podcast.
I share it with all mygirlfriends, but, yeah, anyone
can listen to it and I knowanyone could get a lot out of it
.
So that's a weekly podcast.
A book that I've read recentlyit's called Self-Compassion.
Sorry, oh my gosh, I was likeI'm thinking of the word
self-compassion by Dr KristenNeff, about how to be kind to
(33:41):
yourself and just givingyourself grace.
So those two, I would say, helpme personally, which does have
ramifications for professionallyas well.
So therapy for Black girls andself-compassion, I would say,
yeah, those would be myrecommendations for folks and
that's what's gotten me.
I've gotten a lot out of those.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
What do you strive for in this type of career?
And I say that because I thinkwhere we were in our fellowship
together, there were folks thatvery much had their eyes on like
at some point, I would like tobe an ambassador At some point,
I would like to be this hadtheir eyes on like, at some
point, I would like to be anambassador At some point, I
would like to be this like whatare some of the things to look
forward to in this type ofcareer that you can grow into?
And you know, depending on whatagency, what path you choose.
But just so we have a sense ofwhat what folks can actually
(34:23):
work towards.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yeah, so that's exactly it Like.
So, within for the foreignservice, yeah, hopefully, if you
have a successful career, youkeep getting promotions and then
you get into the Senior ForeignService, which is where you're
one of the leaders in youragency for the Foreign Service
You're helping to set vision andstrategy for the Foreign
Service, for the agency in andof itself, and then from there,
(34:46):
so mostly to become ambassador.
I think it's mostly StateDepartment who go that route,
but other agencies are able tobecome ambassadors.
So for foreign service, forforeign ag service, we've had
quite a number of people who'vereached that rank of ambassador.
I think like three or four, ifnot more, have reached that rank
(35:06):
of ambassador.
So that's where you can go inyour career.
And I will say also for foreignservice, because it is kind of
structured after the militaryand it's up and out, you are
required to retire by age 65.
So the month of the year thatyou turn 65, you are, you're out
, you're retired, you're retiredfrom the foreign service and so
(35:27):
you want to make the most outof your career before you reach
that stage.
And then most people because 65is still pretty young, like you
know, if you're stillable-bodied, and you know most
people decide to start a secondcareer at that point.
You know you have so muchexperience and particularly
working with US farmers andranchers and those cooperators,
you can work, as I've seen a lotof people who've worked as
consultants for these industriesand still have their hand in
(35:50):
food and ag after they retire,after they finish their foreign
service career.
So, I would say those are waysor paths you can do once you're
in the foreign service and youwant to move up.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
That makes sense.
So leadership within the agencyand then so what is an
ambassador?
What do you get to do as anambassador?
That's different from a foreignservice officer.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Oh, yeah, it's a lot of responsibility, but you are
the president's representativein that country, so you are the
leader of the embassy.
You're a leader of the mission,so you are the highest ranking
official in the embassy in thatcountry.
So you are meeting with theheads of the host government of
(36:32):
the country that you're in.
So you're making the decisionsfor the mission or on behalf of
the US government.
It's pretty prestigious tobecome an ambassador.
Yeah, you're setting the tone.
And then also, I would say,because each embassy is like a
microcosm of the US government,so you have all the different
(36:53):
agencies.
So, for example, in Cairo, youknow, we had representatives of
DOD, of agriculture, of commerce, of all the different
government agencies.
So you, as the ambassador, arethe head of all of that, of just
how all these different areasor sections are achieving their
mission and making sure that iswithin the overall US embassy's
mission as well in that country.
(37:15):
So it's a pretty cool gig ifyou make it to that level.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Okay, is there anything else wehaven't discussed today that
the world should know about you?
Oh, that's a good question.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
I mean, as you can see, like I am passionate about
my career, or this career thatI'm in in foreign service, in
agriculture.
I'm also pretty passionate likehow we met in ICAP, which is
preparing particularly people ofcolor and diversifying
leadership within internationalaffairs.
I'm very passionate about thatas well.
(37:49):
Yeah, I'm passionate aboutmaking sure the Foreign Service
reflects the diversity of theUnited States.
So we and we're not there yet,we are definitely not there as
far as women, representation ofBlack representation, latino
representation, like it's.
It's not there yet.
(38:10):
And so I'm very, I'm verypassionate about that and making
sure that people who may not beaware that this is a career
path will know that this is anoption, and, um, and mentoring
other people to make sure thatthey know that this is an option
, to prepare them for it, tomake sure that they thrive in
this career.
So, yeah, definitely a huge,yeah, huge passion of mine.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Awesome, great, and I think you did a great job being
a steward of the industry todayand letting folks know that
this is a career path, that isan option and that folks should
actually just consider and justdo some research on and, you
know, hopefully get into thisfield as well.
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Yeah, no problem, thank you, and I reiterate if
people have any questions orwant to know more about this
career, definitely very happy toshare that.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Okay, thank you.
Well, thanks for joining ustoday.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you did and believe on themission we're on, please like,
rate and subscribe to thispodcast on whatever platform
you're using, and share thispodcast with your friends and
your networks.
Make sure you follow us onInstagram and LinkedIn at career
cheat code and tell us peopleor careers you would like to see
highlighted.
See you next week with somemore cheat codes.
Peace.
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