074 | Community of Change-Makers with Stephen Minix

Imagine creating a career that not only fulfills you but also makes a significant impact on the world. Join us as we uncover the transformative power of mindset with Stephen Minix, the Senior Director of Community at UpMetrics, who champions the cause of connecting foundations, impact investors, and nonprofits through innovative data analytics. Discover how UpMetrics' software revolutionizes data collection and reporting, enabling organizations to concentrate on their true missions. We explore the art of building partnerships that inspire meaningful change beyond mere compliance, fostering dynamic relationships that promote genuine learning and understanding.

Key Points:

• Exploring the vital role of mindset in team success 
• Understanding the functions of UpMetrics and its technology 
• Building authentic relationships beyond transactional networking 
• Highlighting the significance of curiosity in community engagement 
• Sharing personal stories of challenges and growth in philanthropy 
• Encouraging proactive communication for stronger connections 
• Emphasizing the need for integrity and ethical decision-making 
• Turning personal pain into progress for community impact

Disclaimer:

The thoughts, views, and opinions expressed on Career Cheat Code are those of the individual guests and do not necessarily reflect those of the host, affiliated organizations & employers. This podcast is intended for informational and inspirational purposes, highlighting the guests and their unique career journeys. We hope these stories inspire you to chase your purpose, define success on your own terms & take the next step in your career.

If you enjoyed this episode, please like, rate, and subscribe to this podcast on whatever platform you’re using, and share this podcast with your friends and your networks. For more #CareerCheatCode, visit linktr.ee/careercheatcode. Let's make an impact, one episode at a time!
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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So what do I love about it?
I love about it that you alwaysgot to bet on yourself, and not
like yourself as in your ownperson, but like your team, like
your squad, like yo.
It's on us, y'all.
We got to do it.
Ain't nobody going to do it forus.
And so it kind of ties back toold school, like when I was a
high school basketball coach.
Like how do you get peoplefired up to get ready to go play
Crenshaw?
How do you get fired?

(00:20):
Well, you got to get their mindright, and for me, mindset is
everything.
100% of everything is mindset.
Do you have the right mindsetto go at this?
And for me, what's excitingabout this work is I get to talk
to cats that are doingphilanthropic giving,
world-changing, nonprofit workreally awesome impact, investing
stuff that I haven't even heardabout.

(00:40):
That can be before 9 am.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Welcome to Career G-C Code.
In this podcast, you'll hearhow everyday people impact the
world through their careers.
Learn about their journey,career hacks and obstacles along
the way.
Whether you're already havingthe impact you want or are
searching for it, this is thepodcast for you.
All right, welcome to the show.
Thank you for taking the timeto connect with us today.
I don't typically like to spenda lot of time on the intro, so

(01:05):
let's just jump right in there.
Let's tell the world who youare and what you do for a living
.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Happy to be here, steven Minix.
My role I'm the Senior Directorof Community for an
organization called UpMetrics.
And what does the SeniorDirector of Community do at
UpMetrics?
Engaging spaces?
Where we bring, we work withfoundations and funders, impact
investors and nonprofits and Icreate the convening space for

(01:28):
us to kind of learn in publicand get in the sandbox to where
we, when you think about doingwork together, sometimes you got
to know each other first and alot of nonprofits work with
foundations and foundations workwith nonprofits but they don't
really know each other and theyjust kind of turn it into a
relay race.
What I try to do is userelationships and information to
help kind of that work coalesceand actually be impactful.

(01:50):
So I just use some facilitationand our technology, of course,
to support that.
But that's what I do createengaging experiences for our
community of clients andpartners.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
That's great.
So tell me more about what thetechnology itself does.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
We built up metrics and I'm the first hire here, so
I've been around for a minute.
It's an impact analyticssoftware where we're helping
organizations take in data,whatever data you use to kind of
look at what you fund, what youoperationally do, etc.
All the data, qualitatively andquantitatively, that you use to
kind of inform your work andyour enterprise.

(02:23):
Well, usually it lives in a lotof different systems.
What we've done is create anaggregator, a system that pulls
it all together.
So whether you're looking atcommunications, marketing,
outreach, capital out the doordoesn't matter.
Purpose built the technology sothat you can do it in one spot
and not have to be a datascientist to understand what it

(02:45):
is that you're trying to do.
So it's a lot aboutdemystification and making
things simple and more possibleversus using big enterprise
software to kind of then circlesquare an issue.
So funders use it to justifyand articulate where they're
putting out their capital tiedto their initiatives and their
programs.
What are they trying to learnfrom that?
Nonprofits oftentimes use us tobest articulate what it is that

(03:05):
they're taking on through theirimpact framework, building out
an impact framework where theyunderstand who do we serve, what
do we serve them with, what isthe quality of that service?
Is anybody better off and howdoes it pertain to the community
that we're trying to support?
So when you start to help usetechnology and consultative
services, I say, just make folksmore dangerous in what they do.
The reality is, nonprofits arealways trying to justify their

(03:31):
existence.
I just think it's a whack wayto exist.
I always have.
I think justifying why youexist is not nearly as fun as
leaning into why you decided todo this work or what you try to
care about, and sometimes thatsausage making of data reports
and annual reports and take youaway from what it is that you
actually care to be doing.
Your true North of why I builtthis enterprise or why services.

(03:53):
So we want to streamline thatfor folks so they can put their
energy where it needed, which isin the work itself, not in the
administration of the work.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
That makes a lot of sense.
So is that typically your idealclients or foundations and
nonprofits?
Are those typically the folksthat you work with the most?

Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah, the three legs of our stool are impact
investors, foundations,philanthropic organizations and
nonprofits.
So those that are putting outcapital, the impact investors or
the foundations, and those thatare taking in that capital to
do the work on the ground level,the nonprofits that are taking
in that capital to do the workon the ground level.
The nonprofits, we see that askind of a wonderful circle to be

(04:31):
a part of, because they needhelp with the data collection,
articulating what they're up to,better understanding the
enterprise.
Well, so does the funder,because the funder is putting
out capital at volume and theyneed to understand what's
happening.
And we don't do it through acompliance conversation, we do
it through more of aninspiration conversation.
And when you say things like Iwant to create a partnership as
a funder with a nonprofit, well,we know there's capital going

(04:53):
one way, sure, but that capitalis part of it.
So is that lived experience ofthat nonprofit and that genius
on the ground doing that work?
Well then, that informationcoming up isn't just to report,
it's actually to inform.
And if funders are trying tolearn, well, you need to learn
something.
And you don't learn from astatic report only.
You can learn from therelationship, the conversations,

(05:15):
a lot of other things that wethen try to facilitate in our
relationships with our partners.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
That makes sense.
So, as the senior director ofcommunity, what happens when you
go into work on a Monday, like,how are you structuring your
week?
What is it that you're actuallyresponsible for All of those
things?

Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah Well, it's really interesting.
It's the first day back from aholiday, so my Monday today is a
little different.
But look, my work is rooted incuriosity and I need to be
curious and be thoughtful aboutwhat is happening in the
nebulous kind of impact spacewhat's going on in the world of
philanthropy, nonprofit work,what's going on in social work,
kind of, because that bestinforms me how I can engage my

(05:52):
client, my prospect, my partners, et cetera.
So being mindful and beingcurious.
So for me most mornings startaround 5.30 in the morning and
that's just so I can get somebrain food.
I just I voraciously consumearticles, blog posts, like I'm
always trying to just learn asmuch as possible, but not in a,
not in a choir, not in anextraction way.

(06:13):
I'm not trying to take geniusfrom someone, I'm trying to
learn what's out there so that Ican best be relevant when I'm
having these conversations,whether it's about how I can
help you, whether it's about whoI can introduce you.
To Point is, I have to be kindof a jack of all trades in that
aspect as it relates tocommunity, because by nature of
the word, community it's a bunchof people in a community, it's

(06:34):
not just one person or onearchetype or one brain, right?
So like if I think I have itall figured out as it pertains
to where I'm at right now in SanDiego and the philanthropic
landscape, well now, I'm atright now in San Diego and the
philanthropic landscape.
Well now I'm dropping on aconversation with a brother from
New York.
He ain't got time to talk to metoo much about what's going on
in San Diego, right?
Might have some contextualinformation from that, but kind
of wants to know do I knowwhat's cracking in New York?

(06:54):
Do I know what's you know inthose things?
So you need to be well-read andwell-traveled mentally.
But also, look, I use tech toreally help make myself
dangerous.
I do Google Alerts on things Iwant to learn about people.
I want to learn about who's outthere writing, who's nice with
it in public, who do I like tomodel some of my behaviors on.
I do a lot of that with techand that helps me on those early

(07:18):
mornings on a Monday, get up,understand where I can go, get
some new inspiration, while Ithen lock into my actual kind of
rhythm that I know that I needto have as a director in the
company, which is you know yourinternal department stuff,
planning for 2025, your Q4, youknow projections, all the things
that go into most company work.

(07:38):
But none of that is possible ifI don't first get that
curiosity piece satiated in thefront end, because that's what
keeps me just kind of likegeeking during the day, right,
that fuels me.
And then a lot of what I do iskind of check to be reality, is
kind of check on some fishinglines I put out in the water
months before, and I mean thatnot as in a sales way, I mean

(08:01):
that in a partnership way.
A lot of times I get pulled into be a part of a convenings or
public speaking opportunities,things like that.
And so what I do is make surethat where I have those RFPs out
, where I have the proposals out, where I have those
collaborative partnerships out,mondays are my check-in days.
Hey man, how you feeling,where's your mind at?
You want to talk about like,like I like to keep people at a

(08:21):
rhythm with me, not as a heyStephen's here, like I don't
want to play gotcha with nobody.
I want you to know that I'maround, I'm available, I'm
willing, I'm curious.
Mondays are about that.
That's usually where I getdangerous with my pen or my
typing fingers and droppingnotes and because then that's
going to keep things noisy allweek for me to then keep me

(08:42):
excited about the work I'm doingall week, for me to then keep
me excited about the work I'mdoing.
So it's a little bit moresocial on Mondays, a little more
tactical on Tuesdays.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
That makes a lot of sense and it's still, you know,
I think, very much some somegood cheat codes there, like
Google is a good one, right Like.
I definitely use that especially.
You know I also I have anational portfolio as well, so
like there are times when if I'mhaving a conversation with
folks in El Paso, it'd be niceto know if they're dealing with
some things on the ground thatmay trigger their minds to be

(09:07):
elsewhere right, or may just bevery important to our
conversation.
So I like to stay informed aswell and just make sure that a
lot of that I get as proactivelyas possible and, as you said,
using technology to my advantage.
You know where.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
I learned that the quickest was I started doing
work in New Orleans and in BatonRouge.
You try to get some work offthe ground.
You won in Baton Rouge.
You got Fat Tuesday comingaround mid-February you got
Mardi Gras.
There's not a lot of businessper se like jumping on a call on
a Zoom.
It's a lot more social there.

(09:39):
And so what happened was Istarted having these
partnerships go on and nobodywould respond to my emails in
early January, early January,late February.
I'm like what's going on?
I thought we were excited weclosed these deals.
I didn't.
I wasn't thinking about whatthey experienced and it was the
easiest thing to do is like,okay, now on my calendar today,
these relationships have beengoing on for years.

(10:01):
I know exactly when I need tobe mindful of what's going on in
Louisiana Right now.
It's not like that everywhere,but there always is something
else somewhere.
So how can you be mindful?
Because the worst thing youcould do when you're trying to
create a partnership is bethoughtless.
You know what I mean.
Like it's not understand.
Like oh damn, I didn't evenunderstand it was raining in
your neighborhood.
I didn't even understand thatyou're dealing with a flood and

(10:22):
I'm trying to partner Like that.
Eq goes a long way, and it'sonly strengthened by some tech
help, for sure.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
Absolutely yeah.
Or even as you think about, youknow, natural disasters or
things like bridge collapses inplaces, and you're talking about
a report or something, that'sjust like dude, it's all hands
on deck on the ground here, Likeit's like dude, it's all hands
on deck on the ground here, Like, and you're talking to me about
some other stuff.
You know it's definitelyimportant, as you're building
genuine partnerships with folksFor sure.
So tell me what's the?

(10:50):
What's your favorite part ofyour role?
Oh man.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
I'm look, I'm an optimist, so I'm a, I'm a caveat
this with that, like I'm a findjoy in anything but I love mean
Like it's never the same.
There is no.
It's Monday, sit here, do these10 things.
Now, monday's over, right?
It's not like that it's.
You have to be disciplined, youhave to be curious, because

(11:17):
it's easy to be quiet, it's easyto turn the computer down, it's
easy to act like you ain't gotnothing to do, no one's calling.
So why I got to?
It's hard to create energy and Ithink in my role, the hard
thing is you got to create it.
People aren't just beating downyour door.
We're not like a name brand,like an Uber, like, oh, I need a
car, call an Uber, I need a car, get a Lyft right.
We don't got that kind ofmarket kind of like

(11:40):
establishment yet, right?
So because of that, we got tomake some noise to get people to
pay attention.
And what does that come with?
It comes with getting up early.
It comes with, like, the alert.
It comes with tracking thingsdown.
It comes with some discipline.
So what do I love about it?
I love about it that you alwaysgot to bet on yourself and not
like yourself, as in your ownperson, but like your team, like
your squad, like yo, it's on us.

(12:02):
Y'all we got to do it.
Ain't nobody going to do it forus?
And so it kind of ties back toold school, like when I was a
high school basketball coach,like how do you get people fired
up to get ready to go playCrenshaw?
How do you get fired?
Well, you got to get their mindright.
And for me, mindset iseverything.
100% of everything is mindset.
Do you have the set to go atthis?
And for me, what's excitingabout this work is I get to talk

(12:25):
to cats that are doingphilanthropic giving,
world-changing, nonprofit workreally awesome impact, investing
stuff that I haven't even heardabout.
That can be before 9 am.
You know what I mean, so I'malways what I call in the show.
There's always something radhappening.
You know what I mean.
You're like yo did you hearwhat these dudes are doing?
Did you hear what these ladiesare doing?

(12:47):
And, as a person that's alreadyan optimist, you give me that
kind of fuel.
Yo, I'm going through lifeblazing, and usually that's a
good thing, because my goal isto try to help the next person
up right.
Part of being on.
This call today is about.
That is the next cat up.
How can we help the next cat upunderstand what are some bread
crumbs, cheat codes, what aresome things that can get you to

(13:07):
success?
These are how I got there.
These are some examples, butthat the most exciting thing is
it's never the same as it wasyesterday.
And that, to me, is excitingbecause I'm adaptable, I'm
curious, and if you're adaptableand curious and pretty driven,
well then it's always a new day.
And if you're adaptable andcurious and pretty driven, well
then it's always a new day.

(13:28):
And now you've got a shot againtomorrow.
You know what I mean.
So that's some of the stuffthat really geeks me out.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
That's great.
I love that, and I think thatalso goes back to this piece,
which is let's tell the worldhow we met.
How did you and I meet?
Oh for sure.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
Absolutely Well.
I'll speak his name directly.
His brother, stephen Casey, agentleman that I had met years
ago through a virtual it was aphilanthropic association was
putting together some speakersand Stephen was involved and I
had been thirsting for brothersin philanthropy.
I'm like, where are thebrothers in philanthropy?
I just I'm in all thesemeetings.

(14:01):
I don't see anybody.
Now this was during thepandemic.
A lot of it was virtual, so Iunderstood it was a little bit
muted.
But when I saw him on this callI said yo, man, I just wrote
him a direct Slack.
I'm like, yo, you're a brotherin philanthropy, where are the
rest of us?
And he said man, we got to meetand then we set up a call a
couple of days later group ofbrothers in philanthropy cats

(14:22):
that are trying to have kind ofa resource group and build up
Would you be a part of it?
I said heck, yeah.
And then that led to a couplekind of early get-together
social conversations where like60, 70 of us jump on a call and
you were on that call.
And one of the things that I dowhenever I'm on those big group
calls is I'll screenshot thatBrady Bunch image of all the

(14:45):
Zooms because I want to followup.
For me, relationships are mycurrency.
I believe in that, the actualperson.
I don't want to ever begatekept away from people, ever,
and I will never gatekeepsomeone away from relationships
I have.
So when I did that screen grab,I started looking at after the
meeting.
I started looking at where allthese people spent time, and
yours saw Career Chico pop upand I'm like yo, this is it,

(15:09):
this is what I care about.
I'm the board chair of MentorCalifornia.
I mean, mentorship to me is abig deal.
Mentorship and mindset you putthose two things together.
You got something.
I looked on your site and I sawsome of the stuff you're
talking about.
I'm like yo, I need to find outmore about what he's doing.
And then the next time we jumpon a call, I wrote to you and I
said yo, man, I'm still geekedon what you're up to.
I would love to learn more.

(15:29):
Just if I could support, Icould help.
And then got to rapping.
And now we're here.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
I love that.
No, I think that's absolutelyright and I of just having just
men of color that just are inthis really not traditionally
colorful space and we're justthere and a lot of times it's
just us being in the same roomtogether or virtually right,
Talking about what's going on,learning from each other.
Sometimes we have a thematicapproach to what's going on, but
a lot of times it's just beingin community with each other and

(16:06):
, as you said, just following upwith folks and then being able
to say, okay, I know someone atthis place, I know someone at
that place.
So if you have a question, howare folks approaching this?
How are different organizationsdoing things?
So you can actually find yourtribe and really connect with
that.
So I really I'm definitely veryfortunate to be invited into
that group and just appreciateall, all of the great folks that
have come out of that.

(16:32):
So I just appreciated thatbecause I wanted to mention that
here.
I wanted people to know that ifyou don't see the spaces that
you want to see in your field,you can create them, and that's
what you guys have done and youguys have put just whatever that
affinity is to you all do it,create the space.
If you guys put just whateverthat affinity is to you all, do
it, Create the space.
If you have, you know and likewe're doing it in different ways
.
We're doing it here with thispodcast.
You're doing it there withBrothers in Philanthropy.

(16:52):
You're doing it with folks thathave bereavement issues.
Whatever the thing is for youdo the thing.
So I just wanted to like fakethat so people could feel
encouraged for that.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Absolutely, and it's like look right or stop
complaining about the fact thatit's not there.
So like for me.
I think at this stage of lifeI'm now 45, the younger version
of me would have made noise andbeen like why is this not?
Why is it I made some noise?

(17:20):
Well, then I get a little olderand you realize, well, I can
make some noise and try to findthe solution.
And it doesn't have to be you.
I think a lot of people thinkyou got to be the solution, like
no, sometimes you just got tocall attention to the issue,
right.
So I didn't have to create anetwork of brothers in
philanthropy.
I had to be interested in doesthis exist?
And by saying it in the space.

(17:42):
Now, the lift for me was to usesome social capital I had
because they'd asked me in thisroom to be a speaker to then say
where are the men of color inthis space?
Some people would have said yousaid that on a call.
You didn't even know thosefolks.
And I respectfully said hell,yes, I said that because that
was in my soul, that was in myheart.

(18:03):
If I'm going to be candidly aspeaker, then I can't candidly
get the mic and not candidly usethe opportunity to candidly get
what I want, which was whereare we?
And then that led to a snowball.
And so I think sometimes peoplethink you got to have it all
figured out, you got to start toventure, you got to build it,
you got to execute it, you gotto fund it.

(18:23):
No, sometimes it's just amatter of you got to identify it
, or you got to tell somebodyelse, find somebody that's
already doing it and get behindthem.
When didn't sail.
And so that to me, is so manyparallels between philanthropy
and kind of this example we'retalking about, which is
everybody will spin up a newfund.
There's a million funds doingthings.
Sometimes it's a matter aboutpulling them together and

(18:45):
actually doing this instead ofhaving a whole bunch of little
things happening.
And so I think I'm just comefrom an under-resourced
background as an educator, andwhen I mean that meaning like I
went to school as a departmentchair and was given like one dry
erase marker for the year andtold to go change kids lives.
That under-resourcing, not thehumans, right.
And so because of that Ilearned to be like all right,

(19:07):
you give me one pen, watch meget down with this one pen.
That's fair.
I love it, I mean, and to me,that energy is what I try to
push into and that's why thatcollective was so powerful,
because that's kind of what youhear.
You hear other cats saying thisis how I'm doing it.
Can I share some informationwith you?
Oh, check out this book, checkout this resource, because
that's what helps us galvanizemore of our own behaviors and

(19:29):
get that professional patina togo and like go wherever it is
that we want to go, and I thinkthat's that's kind of some of
the cool things about findingyour tribe to what you said
earlier.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
Certainly, and I and I also appreciate that it's a
it's a, it's a wide range andmakes a focus.
So it's folks that are justgetting into philanthropy or
just getting into this space,folks that have been here for
decades, right and like you andeverything between, so you can
really learn from each other.
Back to your role.
So you've told me what theparts are that you love.
What's the most challengingpart of your role?

Speaker 1 (19:56):
It's a good point.
I mean urgency, it's balancingthe urgency right, like I want
to run, but some of our partnersare just now starting to put
their feet in this idea of liketrust or collaboration, right
Versus perpetuating some systemsthat they know and that they're
kind of in.
And so an example would be wetalk about reimagining reporting

(20:17):
, using reporting in a differentway, right, not using it to
like check the box on compliance, but actually to inform,
learning along the way.
Well, some folks on the fundingside will say I like that,
right.
But then they'll say but myboard not necessarily like that,
right, and so you're.
So you, you have to like marrythe excitement of oh, you're
interested, great.

(20:37):
And you also have this systemof historical behaviors good or
bad, no indictment, just thereality.
And so sometimes you got to beurgent but still be very patient
and disciplined to follow up,because very rarely is it?
No, usually it's not yet.
Usually it's like yo, I'm, Ilike this, I'm interested.

(20:59):
But you know, switching the waywe do things is not as easy as
just me, it's my whole team andit's like so.
So that part is a little littlebit of uh, I'd say not that I
don't like it, but it's just,it's a little bit of a pebble in
the shoe right, because youknow you wish everybody had the
ability to run to the thingsthat they want to run to.
And I'd also say you know, justkeep it a buck.

(21:19):
I mean, you're in a, you'redealing with philanthropy money,
man.
Like, like, I have to decidehow I want to use my social
capital and I've acquired a lotof it respectfully and I'm proud
of it.
Do I yield it to help bridgethe gap between disparate groups
of people that have beenstepped on by some of the groups
that have earned the money?

(21:40):
Like, do I use it to help teachthe funding group how, more
humanely, to partner with peoplethat look like me in
communities that they've neverbeen to besides a transaction,
that they've never been tobesides a transaction, do I?
So some of it is.
I go on a lot of walks by myselfafter meetings where I'm like,
okay, where am I at with this?

(22:00):
What I won't do is mentalgymnastics.
I will never do some mentalgymnastics and fall into some
strategic principled issues justto get a transaction right.
That ain't me, and I'm a man ofprinciple.
You're never going to move mewith another contract to do
something that I would not havedone without the contract.

(22:21):
Just not going to happen, right.
And so that's some of thestruggle is like, where's the
line for me?
And that's on me having todecide what that looks like.
But it's a good struggle.
You know what I mean.
It's a good struggle.
It's one of those strugglesthat kind of by yourself, with a
pen, your journal, however youdo it.
These are the kind ofconversations that you need to
have sometimes with yourselfwhen are you at, where do you

(22:43):
align, what do you stand for,what don't you stand for?
And I think that, although it'sa struggle at times because of
the work with philanthropicdollars, it is a beautiful place
to be to try to figure that out.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
That makes a lot of sense and just to make sure
we're all kind of on the samepage.
You said you were the firsthire there.
How big is your team now.
How big are you on now?

Speaker 1 (23:04):
We are a little bit fluid about 43 of us.
I think it's 43 or 42 of usgive or take.
I know we're doing a little bitof higher rent now, so forgive
me, I don't want to leavesomeone out, but we're in that
space.
Yeah, man, I came on board tohelp see if there was a there
there here with this, with ourCEO, and back in 2000, my first
day was September 1st 2015.

(23:25):
And so early versions of whatwe were trying to build, and we
knew we were building towards abigger picture on using data to
tell stories.
But we took a couple of pivotsalong the way, but I've always
stayed true to this idea abouthow do we help get capital to
communities quicker, andsometimes we think it's through
data and informationrelationships, and so we've
stayed true to that core.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
So let's go back.
What were you doing before thisLike?
What would your life look like?
Were you always in thistechnology space working with
Lord, no.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah, technology space working with Lord no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,no, no, no, no, no, no.
I'm a high school PE teacher,basketball coach by trade, so
like I lock high shouts out tolock high school lock saints in
South Los Angeles, California.
Yeah, I was an educator man,that's what I was.
I was a Kines guy and PE guy,assistant principal, and then
eventually I was an AD and ranafter school in athletics for
the whole school district andjust believed in
educational-based athletics andownership activities and like

(24:19):
how can you use education toinspire?
That was always kind of what Iwas into and I taught.
I was an adjunct professor atLMU for a while and teaching
urban or a second secondaryphysical education in an urban
classroom setting and so doingsome really cool things
education in an urban classroomsetting and so doing some really
cool things.

(24:41):
But I took an $8 million losswhen I was running after-school
programs for a charter schooldistrict in Los Angeles Green
Dot Public Schools, and I was adepartment of one.
I took an $8 million loss andthat was going to basically
eradicate all the funding forafter-school funds for a lot of
our 24 schools at the time and Ilost out because I lacked an
effective data strategy toarticulate the outcomes I
aspired to have is what wasessentially imprinted on me from

(25:02):
the state of California.
The reality was there was amarket crash after 08.
A lot of that money that wasfunding these 21st century
programs got crushed.
Thus, what was $118 millionavailable went down to $18
million across the state ofCalifornia, and then everybody
had to compete, and what Ilearned really quickly was damn,

(25:23):
if you don't have a bunch ofgrant writers, it's tough to
compete right If you're in thisreal game.
And so I had to go face a lotof families and talk to them
about why I can no longer payfor historical black college
trips, I can't pay for driver'sed, I can't pay for robotics,
all these things that that a lotof schools across the country
take for granted.
I could no longer underwritethem.

(25:43):
And when I tell you, I wasrespectfully cussed out for
about four straight months byevery parent that came to the
meetings across the city of LosAngeles, and the reality is I
was let to do that by myself,and it was the best development
opportunity I ever got.
There was zero and I mean zerosupport to go into those parent

(26:04):
meetings and get yelled at Zero.
And boy did I take them.
And I just took them all on thechin.
Why, why, and having to explainand having to ask how to get my
talking points correct, had tounderstand the funding cycle.
What was my plan to get themoney back?
How am I going to go backfillthis man?
I became such a greatdevelopment officer I was going
to LAPD and getting bread.

(26:25):
I was going to all theseafterschool providers having
them backfill, pay us just crazyamounts of partnerships to try
to make it happen for kids, andwhat I learned quickly was the
most important thing you can dois tell people what time it is,
show them what you're trying todo, be accountable and be
consistent.
If you do that, it'll start togrow back up, which it did.

(26:46):
But by the time it grew back up, I was tired and wanted to pass
it on and go kind of teachother people how to do this.
I was tired and wanted to passit on and go kind of teach other
people how to do this.
And when I saw that the dataand information was the route,
teamed up with our CEO who hadan idea, that was like, hey, man
, how can we use information anddata to kind of help basically
stop buying more soccer helmetsor soccer goals.

(27:08):
It's like what else can we do?
Like what else can we do?
So we teamed up and now a bunchof really rad humans behind us
and around us and ahead of usthat really understand this from
like the technical side, tohelp build metrics.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
That's great.
So can you also tell me how didyou transition from PE to then
being responsible for thesebudgets and these programs and
all the things?
How do you grow like that forthese budgets and these programs
and all the things?
How do you grow like that?
And then a little bit moreabout that moment when you're
like man, this is tiring,exhausting.
Maybe I'm ready to move out ofthe school district altogether.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
So I would say the first part is look man, I was a
school president at my school.
I was the middle schoolpresident, sixth grade president
.
Like I always ran for studentoffice.
I was a captain of teams.
Like I always knew where I camefrom Spanaway, washington, kind
of a gritty little spot in thePacific Northwest not a lot of
fancy up there, but if youwanted something you had to go.

(28:04):
Recycle cans, you had to go.
Man, I used to hop gates andlike golf courses and take balls
out of the lake and watch themand sell them back at the
parking lot to the guys with thenice cars.
I was a hustler when it came tolike you need a little money in
your pocket to do things.
So I've always taken that sameconcept of teaching.
I'm never going to be told as ateacher I can't do something
with my kids because we can'tafford it.

(28:25):
Go fundraise for it, go get apartner to get it.
If you want it, you'll make ithappen.
And so, as a teacher, I was a22 year old teacher at Locke and
I was able to kind of establishthat pedigree pretty early,
which is I was the girls varsitybasketball coach and I was a
softball coach.
We had no budgets.
Well, that's no excuse.
Let's get this candy, let's getthese t-shirts, let's do this
car washes Start.

(28:45):
You know, he started makingthings look nice and once you
can identify, you can makethings look nice.
People are like how'd you dothat?
I did it like this, let's do itwith this.
So eventually I climbed up tobe the athletic director, then
the school.
Just, you know, I just I alwaysknew a way to kind of navigate,
to help, so I've always wantedto help.
You know what I mean?
I've never wanted to be the man, I've always wanted to help.

(29:05):
Now, that puts you in aposition of oftentimes being
seen as quote unquote the man orthe guy in charge, of the
person in charge.
But that was never my impetus.
My impetus was help, and sothat became the way that I kind
of built up my reputation.
And if you needed somethingdone in sport-based youth
development and education in LosAngeles between 2002 and
probably 2016, you're probablygoing to either see me, drop me

(29:28):
a line or I'm going to be in themeeting with you because I had
got that reputation and so itwas great.
But the way to the point ofunderstanding the budgets and
all that stuff was.
I listened and I I hung aroundthe meetings.
I didn't go to the meeting justto get the bagel and dip Like I
wanted the knowledge, like I'mnot going to sit up here and
listen to too many people tellme it's, it's this, when it's

(29:58):
actually that.
Like I'm just not that guy.
My dad and mom taught me betterthan that and so.
But I know how to disagreerespectfully, right, like, and I
think some people know how topound the table and make noise
and some people know how todisrespectfully move through
their day and other of usunderstand how to make the case,
make the argument, berespectful and move on the issue
, and I think that's what Ialways cared about.
So for me, I pivoted into itbecause they knew I could handle
money.
Once you can show you canhandle money, then you get a
chance to handle more money.

(30:19):
So then my budget, myafterschool budget, just kept
growing because I was able tobackfill, fundraise, write
grants.
Once you learn the machine, youdon't need too many people to
tell you much more, and it's amatter of can you teach the next
person what they need to knowso they can be a part of it.
I never want to gatekeep.
I give you all the secrets.
This was kind of the way I'veapproached it.

(30:39):
But to your last part of yourquestion of how did I pivot from
PE to this or, excuse me, pe toleaving education, it's
heartbreak.
I, very candidly, we weregetting ready to have our second
kid and I was department of oneand my wife runs schools and so
I knew we needed help and Ireached out to my leaders at my
organization.
I said I need help this summerand they said, okay, let's see

(31:01):
what we can do.
And, mind you, I was $8 millionbudget.
I was like I have this guy thatI've met.
He's willing to stick aroundfor two more months this summer
and help.
I need to pay his rent.
It's $5,000.
Can we do that?
Yeah, we can do that On aFriday.
We can do that.
Come back on Monday.
They told me we don't have thatand I said we are a $100
million enterprise and we don'thave $5,000 to pay this young

(31:21):
man to stay on board so that Ican actually take a PTO with my
kid.
The rose colored glasses cameoff that day, rap and I'm a
loyal cat.
They came off that day.
That day I was starting tolisten to other opportunities
and I had a bunch, but I wasloyal.
I wanted to be with the kids.
But that's the day that Irealized that I was more of a
piece of a machine as opposed toan asset.

(31:43):
And then, a couple months later, my CEO, drew, and I started
meeting.
Ideas came up and, just likeyou and I got to rap and this is
what happened.
That's kind of how we got afterit.
So the pivot was because I was,I felt like I was no longer
respected as an asset in thatorganization and if I'm going to
respect myself and I need tofind another way to do this and

(32:04):
it wasn't there's no beef.
I love the folks.
They do great work.
It's just priorities weren'twhere I thought they should have
been relative to what I wasdoing, and so I can either
complain, solve it or dip.
And I found a betteropportunity, and that was 10
years and some change ago.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
That's great.
I love when people just owntheir careers and manage their
lives accordingly.
I think you can certainlyoutgrow places.
You can certainly get to apoint where you know the mutual
benefits of the relationship arejust not there and you can just
part ways and it's fine.
As you said, it doesn't have tobe beef right.
Like you know, I've left rolesin the past and I love those
people and we're in great spacesand, like you know, we have

(32:42):
drinks and meetups and allthings like the people and the
beautiful relationships remain,but the employment doesn't have
to.
So you can always take some ofthat with you and then, you know
, continue to grow elsewherewhere you feel like you are
being met in the ways that youwant to.
So I appreciate you sharingthat because I just I recognize
that there are people out therethat may be in similar
circumstances and just don't youknow, may not, just may not

(33:04):
know that they, that they can,that they can do that.
Well, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
And it's hard.
That's why mentorship mattersright, because it's hard to like
take a step outside of a.
It was a, you know it was aschool district job I could have
.
I could have, I could havesettled in.
You know what I mean.
Like I can tell you exactlywhat I'd be making today, 10
years.
You know what I mean.
Like you knew it wascomfortable, you knew the
benefit package, you kind ofknew job security, but like

(33:29):
that's, if that's what you want,then great, but that's not
going to make me happy on itsown.
I need to also make sure thatI'm stimulating the things that
I care about, which is curiosityand learning and solving.
And once you realize that thosethings aren't going to be
available to you, what happensto me, in my opinion, is
sometimes people start tocalcify, they start to turn into

(33:50):
the hard version of themselvesso they can survive the work
they're doing, and then theworst of them shows up every day
.
Right, and I don't mean thatlike bad people, I mean like the
worst, like assets of them.
And yo, I'm a leader, I'm acharismatic leader.
I bring charisma to the party,sweat equity before I get there,
and we're getting after it.

(34:10):
We're going to have some fun,we're going to knuckle it out
and we're going to dip, we'regoing to try to change the world
in the middle of that.
That's what we do, right.
But if I get to a point whereI'm showing up and I'm like, hey
man, what up?
Yeah, no, I'm good, yo, youknow what I mean.
Like now, now, now the streetsthat I have are being muted, I'm

(34:31):
not going to change, and thenwe just start to wonder why, man
, it's Tuesday, it's Monday,can't do it right, so like, but
the mentor side of it helps youkind of unlock some of that.
I'm like yo, man, sometimes youchange your shoes, your feet
feel different, you know, andsometimes it's as easy as that,
other times it's not.
Man, it easy as that, othertimes it's not.

(34:55):
Man, it's time for you.
You got that mortgage.
You better stay, because yougot to make these decisions
based on tomorrow, not 10 yearsfrom now and being able to help
youngsters understand that, ornot even necessarily youngsters,
but people in that positionthat need a little bit of that
guidance.
I had a couple of cats likethat in my life that really
helped me stay grounded and stayfocused.
The prize that helped menavigate some of these things.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
That's fair.
I appreciate that.
So let's actually go a littlefurther back.
I know you mentioned growing upin Washington.
Can you talk a little bit aboutyour upbringing?
Where were you born, raised,what was that like?
And then, what did you want tobe when you were 12, 13 years
old?

Speaker 1 (35:33):
I was born in Las Vegas.
I'm a military kid, so I'm thebaby child of two military, two
Air Force folks, but they weredone kind of moving around the
country mostly when I was born.
So, born in Las Vegas, raisedbriefly in Arizona, luke Airport
space outside of there, andthen my family settled in
Spanaway, washington, back inthe time, the 70s, you could be

(35:55):
a biracial couple and be up inthe Northwest and they kind of
leave you alone a little bit.
So what my dad said, raised inSpanaway, tough part of South
Puget Sound, seattle, tacoma,right below Tacoma, so it's
about 30 miles south of SeattleEverybody grows up playing
football, wrestling, baseball,basketball, fishing, you know
what I mean.
And if you had money you wentskiing or up in the mountains.

(36:16):
But it wasn't really a realityfor us so we threw snowballs,
you know.
But it was a great place togrow up because it was tough,
tough, not like tough, likeviolence, tough, tough like
dilapidated fences and housing.
You know it just wasn't wasn'ta lot of a lot of frosting in my
neighborhood, put it that waybut a lot of pride.
You know what I'm saying.
A lot of pride, specificallyschool athletics, and I just

(36:40):
loved it.
But I have a unique kind ofupbringing in the fact that my
dad died of a very, very raredisease when I was in seventh
grade, so 92.
I'm 45 now but he died ofsomething called disseminated
coccidioid mycosis.
It's a fungal infection oftenreferred to as San Joaquin
Valley fever.
There's two versions, onedisseminated, one

(37:03):
non-disseminated kind of takeson like a mononucleosis, like
immunodeficient or kind ofdepresses the immune system, but
after about six, seven monthsyou bounce back.
The other one kills you.
And so my dad raised me with ayoung man.
His name was Steven.
He says little Stevie, I'mdying, so you got to know how to
do X, y and Z, I'm dying, soyou got to do.
That's just how he talked to me.

(37:23):
There was no balloon animals,it was all love, but it was like
yo man, I'm dying.
So you need to know thesethings.
And he caught it in 79 when Iwas born and he died in 92 when
I was in seventh grade.
So all the data I know on littlebrown boys whose dads are
missing.
I'm the opposite of all ofthose data points right, because

(37:44):
a dude poured into me somethingvicious, and my mom as well,
brother and sister as well, butlike how to show up, how to
shake hands, how to berespectful, how to bust your ass
every day, how to really focus,work, love.
My dad cut flowers.
My dad sculpted ice.
My dad was a chef.
Just like yo, figure it out,man, find a way to bring joy
into this world and do it withsome focus and some discipline,

(38:07):
and so that's kind of reallywhat's always poured into me.
A lot of the reason I went andbecame a teacher was that

(38:29):
no-transcript, to have that kindof love.
And like I had a buff Southernblack military dad who just like
gave kisses and hugs you knowwhat I mean Like, just was, like
just was getting chills evensaying it like it was just

(38:49):
unbelievable in like what it'slike to be, in my opinion, a man
like a loving, all supportive,caring, selfless man.
And when you can do that with apartner and you see what that
does for a family.
You know we had our littlestuff that we were dealing with
and figuring out, but like itwas always warm, was always fed,

(39:13):
was always loved, right, andlike that was regardless of
salaries.
And so when you go get yourlittle college degree and think
you're going to change the world, well, the foundation that I
have is are we fed, are we takencare of, are we loved?
Do my kids feel like they canrun through brick walls if they
want to?
You know those little things,and so I got that from my dad,
and my mom as well, of course,but my dad really poured that

(39:35):
into me and I just think that ifyou have that kind of
foundation, even if it's onlyfor a year in your life, it's
foundation.
It really helps you stayfocused, and so when I'm in
conversations with people andI'm hearing things about what
can be, what can't be, I alwaysfall back to my ideas of like.
I've seen it.
I've seen the model.

(39:58):
I know what it's like to walkwith your head up and your
shoulders back and lookeverybody in the eye, shake
hands, be respectful, show uptomorrow and do it again, serve.
You know it was modeled, and soit's not as hard to be
successful in this world whenyou have a model for what
success can be.
You know.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
I think that's important, that's fair.
I appreciate you sharing that.
You know that's a real, youknow that's a real story, right,
and it's.
It's one of those things that,like, are just formative and
just shape your outlook on life.
But I'm just, I do reallyappreciate that even at a young
age it sounds like you recognizethat he was pouring so much
into you and now you're able tocarry that forward, right?

(40:30):
so I just you know I think, yourperspective on such a
circumstance is just remarkableand speaks a lot about you I
appreciate it, man, it's what?

Speaker 1 (40:37):
but it's also one of those things like, if it helped
you, why don't you gonna keep itto yourself like I'm just not
one of those like.
That's why I tell even my, mypartner.
I say, like, if you gotsomething that you figured out,
how can we learn in public soothers can benefit?
Like to me, the biggestinjustice this world is is
experienced.
In my opinion, is Steven Minix,my dad passing away too early,

(41:00):
before he got a chance to cookthe rest of his life, like he
didn't do the things because hewas just so solid.
So what can I take from him andshare?
Well, it's in these moments Ican share.
I can.
I can give somebody a little bitof a nugget about what I
experienced and how I turnedpain to progress.
That's the through line of mylife, pain to progress.
Right, lost $8 million, foundout a way to kind of pivot into

(41:21):
tech focused on data, so otherpeople don't have to have that
same problem.
Dad passed away early.
Use that to inform, kind ofbasically creating my own
internal career coach, lifecoach, out of my dad's memory.
Right, like that I use to kindof look in the mirror and hold
myself accountable for, and soit's a pain to progress.
I think it's important.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
Yeah, so, as someone that is involved in mentorship
and that very much believes inthis, what are some pieces of
information you wish you knew alittle earlier in your career?
Like just some of those some ofthose like career cheat codes
that have just helped you alongthe way.
Oh yeah, relationships in yourcareer.
Just some of those career cheatcodes that have just helped you
along the way.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
Oh yeah, relationships are your currency.
That's got to be the number one.
I said it earlier Relationshipsare your currency.
You need to understand People.
Stop at networking.
Networking is transactional,right.
Relationship cultivation is not.
Relationship and network gotogether.
But if you stop just at thebusiness card transaction or the

(42:15):
op transaction, then you'remissing out the relationship
piece.
If you put networking andrelationship cultivation
together, you will be endlesslyrelevant.
You can make a phone call andget an answer.
You can make a phone call andget an introduction.
You can take a phone call andprovide a reference.
You start to understand yourrelevance and being a support.

(42:37):
So, to the extent that you canget beyond just networking, go
to the sessions.
Don't meet 100 people, meet 10,right, don't get watered down,
get depth.
So those kinds of things areimportant.
So to me, that's one.
Another one is take notes,copious notes.
Take copious notes,contemporaneous notes, copious

(42:57):
notes.
You should always have a GoogleDoc open on your computer that
just says the date of that week.
Yo, what do you got?
Got some wax.
Write it, write it, write itJust, even if it's like one or
two things.
You can do them with voicenotes now if you want, but if
you're not using the tech tohelp you, or I mean you can do
it old school, you can do it penand paper.

(43:18):
I keep one next to me.
I always write down some notes,some stuff I come back to.
But a lot of us and I'll speakspecifically to men we forget
that we got to talk to somebody.
Sometimes, if you don't havesomebody to talk to, you can
talk to your journal.
You can write right.
So if you don't have the moneyfor the therapist, or if your

(43:39):
ego won't let you get atherapist, or if you're whatever
, you always can write.
You know you always put acouple of things down on paper.
Those things are powerfulbecause even if you don't go
back to seeing them again,getting them out sometimes
catharsis that act of likegetting it out.
The next one I'd say is getreally good at sending yourself
email.
Right, you write something,send that to yourself and step
away from it for 30 minutes.
Come back, it'll help you withyour tone.

(43:59):
I think some of us specificallyI speak for me, men of color we
get a little hot, we get alittle pissed off.
We want to write some stuff, wewant to go a little bit.
Your head's starting to bob.
Well, before you press sendexternally, sometimes you want
to make sure it's what you want.
Not talking about codeswitching, I'm not talking about
muting yourself.
I'm talking about measure twice, cut once.

(44:20):
If you're going to say something, you're going to put it in
email or you're going to writesomething, make sure it's what
you want, especially if it's asticky topic or it's a little
bit kind of like heated, sendthat email to yourself.
It gets you that same exactexercise of writing it,
catharsis of sending it, and itcomes back to you.
When you read it, I guaranteeyou you'll be like ooh, yikes,

(44:41):
okay, hold on, let me changethat, that's spelled wrong.
That's this.
And then, if you want to writeit again, write it again and
send it out.
But that kind of stuff, becausewe usually don't get the
benefit of the doubt, we usuallyget oh, y'all angry.
Right Now you're playing withheadwind.
Now I got to prove to you I'mnot angry Over time.
I got time for that.
Send an email, mute yourself.
I mean check yourself that way.

(45:01):
And I'd also say take theteacher or take the
parent-teacher approach.
Reach out to people whennothing's going wrong or you
don't need something.
Don't only reach out to themwhen your kid got in trouble, or
like it's just the.
I see it done wrong all thetime.
I see it done wrong in parentteacher conferences.
Yo man, drop me a text on thatparent app that says my kid is

(45:24):
funny, right, more than you dropme off and say or drop me the
note that says my kid has adiscipline issue.
Come in.
If you only go to people whenyou need something, then you are
needy and that's not a way tocreate a relationship.
So those are some of the ones Iwould say, and all those can be
done with no money right now.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
I appreciate that and I definitely relate to that.
I tell a lot of the folks Ialso coach grad students now,
and alumni and on a formal wayand then, of course, other
things.
But one of the things I tellpeople is that, like, don't be
the person that only reaches outwhen you need something.
Because if every time I seeyour name you need something,
that doesn't create a realrelationship, like I need to be
able to just send me a note, say, hey, by the way, I got a new

(46:06):
job, just good to like talk toyou, that's it All right, cool
Update.
But like, if every time Iconnect with you is like you
need something, like that it'sdisingenuous.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
It's kind of like yeah, it's kind of like I'm sure
in your life, just like in minethe last couple of days, a
whole bunch of text messagescoming in on Thanksgiving from
people you haven't heard from ina long time.
Y'all may have Thanksgiving,man, thinking about you, about
you.
Imagine if people took thatsame level, just that same level
of thoughtfulness, six weeksbefore Thanksgiving and said yo

(46:38):
man, hey, just thinking aboutyou, dude, hope things well.
Same message, but you don'tneed the holiday to be the
prompt.
Imagine how proactive peoplestart looking at each other like
yo man, I appreciate you.
Last year I started that If Ithink of you in a moment, if
something comes up, I think ofyou, it's on me to send you a
note right then.
And I'll say it Like yo man.
I was just listening to thisnew Nas album blah, blah, blah.

(46:59):
Remember when we were incollege Done and what has
happened is created some crazycool conversations with some
cats that I haven't talked to ina minute.
And it's not fake, it's justsimple, but it's just one of
those examples of the power ofproactive communication, and it
feels good too.
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
So in this field I'm a big proponent that you can do
good, and do well Absolutely.
Can you give folks anunderstanding of how much money
people can make in this type offield?

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Sure, sure.
Well, it depends on.
We're in tech, right.
So there's engineers that aremaking very, very good money
coding, writing code and doingthat and you know you're talking
about.
You know six figures, you know175, some of the starting rates
of some of these engineerscoming in.
I'm on the external side.
Most folks are on the sixfigure side of things, plus
commission.
So it just depends if you'reselling product versus if you're

(47:53):
tending to it.
All of our staff members, allpeople that come into our
company, get equity stake.
So you get equity piece of thecompany, which is because what
we want to do is have peopleactually working with something
they believe in.
And it's all disclosed on ourwebsite.
So if you go to the careerspage on our website, it shows
you exactly what the benefitspackage is, the equity package

(48:13):
is.
A lot of folks will come in.
They'll ask during the hiringprocess, like what's equity
right?
And it's just because not a lotof people have been taught that
Education ain't a lot ofnonprofit education folks having
equity conversations in theirsocial enterprise.
You know what I mean.
So like that's a cool thing.
That's a cool thing, but it cankind of I mean you can plan on

(48:37):
starting around this kind of$100,000 range and then starting
to climb up from there.
You know, depending on ifyou're on the commission side of
things or the engineering sideof things, things change a lot.
But yeah, folks can make theirbread, for sure, I love that.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Are there any forms of media, so books, podcasts,
things that you have consumedthat have shaped you personally
or professionally?
It doesn't have to beprofessionally.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
Sure, I would say.
There's a book called the FourAgreements I would encourage
anybody to read.
Just read it.
It's a Toltec story about theway to navigate life.
It's just powerful.
I would suggest reading it.
There's a book by John Gordoncalled the energy bus.
That is, uh, he has a.
He has about a series of aboutfour or five books.

(49:18):
One of them is the energy bus,one of them's the soup.
Those two specifically, youcould probably read them in a in
a long bus ride.
I mean they're they're veryshort but they're metaphor based
stories that help you quicklyunderstand some pretty meaty
business principles that I'vefound to be solid.
And there's a podcast calledReal History that I would highly

(49:41):
recommend.
I just think past is prologueand I think far too often people
are looking for new, funny,fancy, cool stuff and I think
sometimes revisiting kind ofhistory and real history real
dictators, real it's a, it'sit's real as the font and they
have like a thing on the backendthat I would suggest just
because it helps you think aboutleadership in a different way

(50:03):
and good and bad and what canhappen if, if you think of
yourself as a, as a leader, butI also say a masterclass anybody
that if you want to invest insomething no-transcript of the

(50:44):
main ones that I'd say I'mdiving into for sure that's
awesome.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
Is there anything else we haven't discussed that
the world should know about you,Yo man, if you're not seeing me
do this.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
I am.
I am behind a grill or I'mgardening.
That's my.
I think that you got to findsomething that brings you joy
besides my three daughters andmy wife, who are just all the
things, the best, the great.
Yeah, this is not about that.
You got to find something thatalso brings you personal joy,
and I think a lot of us forgetthat.
Like, personal joy is important.
Being silly, play, goofingaround those things are

(51:15):
important to adults too, and youjust got to find a way that
they're appropriate in your life.
Right, and for me, as soon as Iget off a call like this, I go
jump on my hill for a minute andtoil in the dirt, because it
helps me think about what I justdid.
It helps me, but also it playsinto my creativity side of, like
I'm not an artist but mylandscaping on that Hill, where

(51:36):
I got my broccoli, my cabbage,my artichokes, all that cracking
that had to get there somehowRight, so my creative brain was
satiated there.
So, whatever it is that you'reinto, that can or that you want
to be into, that can help keepthose synapses firing, that joy,
that fun, and it gives you achance to mess up, you know what
I mean.
Like you have to haveopportunities to swing and miss

(51:57):
in your life, because if youdon't, you'll never take risks.
So for me, I can't go into bigenterprise deals swinging and
missing too often.
I can swing and miss on my plotof where my Brussels sprouts
are at right, but there's risksassociated with both of Brussels
sprouts are at right, butthere's risks associated with
both.
But that same ability of like,taking a stance, deciding why
I'm going to do it, putting inthe effort, having the patience,

(52:20):
following up, maintaining allthe way through, cycle from seed
to plate, that's discipline.
Well, I can see the directcorrelations back to that in
building a team, building acompany, right.
And so to your question aboutthings, about me.
You don't know that's one ofthem.
That's my secret weapon is Iuse gardening as my counselor,

(52:45):
as my muse, because it tells youif you mess up, you know what I
mean.
You do too much, it'll tell you.
You don't do enough, it'll tellyou.
And so I think there's somefeedback there that's important.
So, whatever it is for y'all,find your thing, but test your
mettle with it and use yourdiscipline, your structure, your
focus, put it to somethingthat's fun.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
That's awesome, thank you.
Well, thank you for joining ustoday.
I really appreciate it.
Indeed man, thanks for havingme.
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you did, and believe on themission we're on, please like,
rate and subscribe to thispodcast on whatever platform
you're using, and share thispodcast with your friends and
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Make sure you follow us onInstagram and LinkedIn at Career
Cheat Code and tell us peopleor careers you would like to see

(53:26):
highlighted.
See you next week with somemore cheat codes.
Peace.