November 25, 2024 • 42 mins
Grad school can be an important step towards achieving your career goals, but is it always necessary? Erin shares what she's learned from coaching master's and PhD students in her full-time job and getting her own master's degree. She discusses the importance of industry research, cost, the balance between school and personal life, long-term benefits, and the importance of what you learn versus just having the degree. Erin emphasizes the value of work experience and soft skills and highlights how to make informed career decisions. She also explores alternatives to grad school, such as certifications, professional associations, and gaining relevant experience through jobs and internships. Don’t miss this episode if you’re contemplating whether or not to go to grad school!
Timestamps: Career content - 7:51
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Flowers x When I Was Your Man - Miley Cyrus ft. Bruno Mars (Mashup)
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Episode Transcript
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(00:18):
This is Career Composer.
I'm Erin, and I'm helping you,professionals under 30, navigate
your careers with a music themedtwist.
I'm giving you the job searchand career advice you need to
get that job, but we'll alsotalk about music, how to balance
our personal and professionallives, and figure out what we're
meant to do.
Ready?
(00:38):
Let's go.
Hi guys.
Welcome back for another episodeof career composer.
I'm Erin.
I'm a full time career counselorin Washington, DC and in my full
time job, I specifically coachmasters and PhD students.
So today I'm so excited to besharing every factor you must
consider before going to gradschool.
These are the factors thattypically influence people's
(00:59):
decisions, but also what no onetells you about grad school and
how to assess whether or notit's really the right choice for
you.
In our last episode, I broughtmy friend, Sarah on the podcast
who shared her experiencedeciding whether or not to go to
grad school.
So I really encourage you tocheck out that episode as well.
As always, if you want to getright to the career content, the
timestamp is in the show notesbelow.
(01:21):
You can also stay up to date onall things career composer by
following us on Instagram, TikTOK, and X at career composer.
Every song we talk about on thepodcast can be found on our
master career composer playlist.
And there's a link to a surveyin the show notes below where
you can submit songwrecks andplaylist ideas too.
Finally, you can always email meat careercomposerpodcast at
(01:42):
gmail.
com with questions, comments,and suggestions.
Symphony If you're new here, thePrelude is our music portion of
Career Composer that's a brieflittle appetizer to our career
content.
Today, we're digging into theMiley vs.
Bruno Mars of it all, and youget a bonus round.
In the spirit of makingdecisions about grad school, I
also couldn't decide what musicto cover.
(02:03):
So, you get all of it, and we'llalso cover some female singer
songwriters that I think gotbrushed over during the Chapel
Roan revolution this summer.
Getting into it, a lot of youhave probably heard by now that
Miley Cyrus is being sued forher song Flowers for copyright
infringement of When I Was YourMan by Bruno Mars.
My mom is actually the one whotold me about this back in
(02:25):
September.
Bruno's people who are suingher, not Bruno Mars himself.
And they're essentially sayingthat she copied the song.
Now that I've had some time tothink about this, there are a
couple of things that I thinkare pretty interesting.
When I was your man was releasedon January 13th in 2013 and
flowers came out on January12th, 2023.
(02:48):
So if it had been one more day,it would have been exactly 10
years later.
The 10 years thing is kind offreaky to me, so I was wondering
when music copyright expires andwhen lyrics and melodies are
fair game.
Music copyright lasts for thelife of the author plus 70
years.
This is a really long time whenyou think about US patents,
(03:10):
which expire for a product afterjust 20 years, even if the
inventor is still alive.
And here's what I'm mostconcerned about.
Will Miley's Grammy be takenaway?
First of all, this is Miley'sfirst Grammy.
I have no idea why at the climband party in the USA, we're not
deserving of Grammys back in theday, but I'll live.
(03:31):
I would just be so sad for Mileybecause I believe that she's
really earned this recognition.
And also, do we think theAcademy considered the fact that
this song is so similar to WhenI Was Your Man?
Or did they discount thatbecause Tempo Music, Bruno Mars
people, hadn't jumped on thelawsuit yet?
At the same time, I candefinitely see why the
(03:52):
songwriters for When I Was YourMan would be really upset.
On that note, I do think we needto acknowledge just how crazy
similar these two songs are.
People copy each other in musicall the time.
You can easily search on YouTubeand see just how many pop songs
use the exact same chords withthe exact same chord
progression.
But in the show notes, I linkeda mashup of flowers.
(04:14):
And when I was your man, thespecific mashup is by a YouTuber
called cup of beer, and thechannel has a ton of us and K
pop covers.
I also linked a billboardarticle published in 2023, right
after flowers came outexplaining from billboards
perspective, why Miley Cyrusdoes not need to credit Bruno
Mars on flowers.
So if you're interested,definitely check out those two
(04:36):
things in the show notes below.
Speaking of Bruno, his song withLady Gaga, die with a smile.
I love that song.
Again, this is coming out.
A month after, Die With a Smileis released, but I'm still
listening to it.
I don't love the other new onethat he just came out with, the
one with the pink cover.
And I also really don't likeLady Gaga's new album, but I
(04:57):
really love this song.
Also on the agenda for today arethe female singer songwriters
who fell under the radar whenChapel was, quite literally,
taking over the world.
I also must say, it makes me sohappy that Chapel is so popular.
I really don't think music likehers would have been this
popular 10 years ago.
And I went to a spin class whereit was Chapel Rhone versus
(05:19):
Olivia Rodrigo and the spininstructor wore a curly red wig
for Chapel Rhone as she wasrunning the spin class.
It was insane.
And I was just so excited tolook around and see how many
people knew every single word tothe chapel songs.
First we have Cut by MarenMorris and Julia Michaels.
This one is from Maren'sIntermission EP.
(05:40):
Very fitting for those of us whodon't have it all figured out.
Basically the message is, it'sjust intermission.
We're just getting started,which I love.
Next is Terrified by DebbieDawson.
If you remember, Any song fromtoday, please go listen to
terrified.
This is just one of those songsthat I really couldn't turn off.
(06:01):
It came on either from Spotify'srelease radar or like, I don't
know, one of those curated foryou playlists.
And it came on as I was walkingaround my neighborhood and I
just immediately thought thisperson's voice is so special,
Erin (06:17):
The hype she's getting kind of reminds me of
When Celeste gained popularity.
I'll add some songs by Celestetoo.
If you don't know who Celesteis.
She's the one who sings,
Isn't It Strange?
Strangers to friends, friendsinto lovers, and strangers
again.
that song.
There was a cover of it inBridgerton.
It was on that new Netflix showwith, um, Kristen Bell.
(06:43):
Uh, oh my gosh.
Nobody wants this.
So for some reason, the song byCeleste is in every TV show,
movie, whatever.
But what they were saying aboutCeleste, is that she sounded
like Adele.
Had the same potential as Adeleand I will say that Celeste
voice is the
closest I've heard to Adele.
(07:03):
my friend Sarah describedCeleste's voice really well.
She said it sounds like she'svery much on the edge of her
voice, which is a great way toput it.
anyway.
Definitely listen to Terrifiedby Debbie Dawson.
I also think that she haspotential to become really,
really big.
I'm also going to throw a couplemore songs on the playlist this
week, just because I feel likeit.
(07:24):
And the first one is Labor byParis Paloma.
I also love the song Fruits andit's called Free Fall by her.
Paris Paloma's full albumCacophony came out in August.
A couple others that didn't comeout this summer, but Again, I
just feel like putting on theplaylist.
Should've Been Me by Mitski, whois the same artist who sings My
(07:44):
Love Mine All Mine, and thenSelf Care by Lily and Madeline,
which came out a while ago, butI just love the song.
Now let's get into it.
Every factor you must considerbefore going to grad school D
minor, K.
504, No.
(08:07):
today, we've got what employers are looking for.
Researching your industry, thebest time to go to grad school
cost, balancing school andpersonal long term benefits for
your career and earningpotential.
How important is what you learnversus just having the degree.
Should you go to grad school?
If you don't know what you wantto do with your career
alternatives to grad school andso much more.
(08:29):
We're covering Everything today.
I'm so glad I can give you guysthis information all in one
place.
I really wish I had thisinformation when I was looking
at grad schools three years ago.
I also want you to know thatwhile I do coach masters and PhD
students for my full time job,I'm not biased towards either
choice.
(08:49):
I always tell my students I haveno loyalty to the university I
work at.
If it's better for you to quityour grad program and go start
your dream side gig businessthat you want to build, go do
it.
I really don't care if you go tograd school.
There are so many paths tosuccess.
So I really just wanted to comeat this episode today from an
objective standpoint.
(09:10):
I'll also use some examples frommy own grad school experience
today.
So to kick us off, I'll quicklyshare my story.
When I graduated college, I waspretty sure I wanted to be a
career counselor, maybe becomethe director of a career office.
I'd worked in Penn State'sCareer Services Center as a
student for two years, and Iloved it.
I wasn't set on getting mymaster's right away, but I did
(09:32):
know that I would need one tomove up in my field.
So I decided to get my master'sof education in higher education
and student affairs.
I looked into counselingprograms, wasn't really
interested in clinical programsor school counseling.
So those are the routes I weededout.
I also knew it would bedifficult to get an entry level
job in career services without amaster's.
(09:52):
Something that's really uniqueto me is I knew I wanted to live
in Boston since I was 17.
I wasn't able to go to thecolleges that I wanted to so I
went to Penn State and saidthat, well, if I didn't go to
college there, I would be therethe second I graduated from Penn
State.
And that's exactly what I did.
I knew that it would be evenharder at some of the
(10:13):
prestigious colleges there toget an entry level job without a
master's.
Many colleges at the time wererequiring student facing staff
to have their master's degrees.
And I also couldn't afford tolive in Boston or pay the grad
school tuition at BU, BC, orNortheastern.
So I ended up going to SalemState University in Salem,
(10:35):
Massachusetts, which really feltlike the next best thing.
And it was great.
I commuted 35 minutes into thecity on the weekends.
Still got to live out thatdream, have fun, meet people,
really feel like I was doingwhat you're meant to do in your
twenties.
and live out that dream.
of living in Boston, even thoughit was 35 minutes away.
So first, let's talk about wheregrad school is on a macro level
(10:58):
and what employers are reallylooking for.
Across all industries, otherthan academia, non academic
research, medicine, and maybelaw, employers are increasingly
valuing relevant skills and workexperience at a higher level
than a degree.
Other exceptions to this mightbe licensure programs, but
completing a relevant internshipexperience and passing an exam
(11:21):
to demonstrate your skills andknowledge is often part of
getting licensed in your field.
Employers also highly value softskills and professional
etiquette, also known asprofessional logic, the ability
to operate professionally in theworkplace, understanding how
organizations work, sendingprofessional emails, knowing how
(11:41):
to navigate different kinds ofprofessional relationships.
These are all parts ofprofessional logic because
undergrad and graduate degreesare becoming more and more
expensive for a number ofreasons.
Fewer people are pursuing themand are seeking alternative ways
to get experience.
Work experience allows people todevelop the professional skills
(12:01):
and professional logic thatemployers want, sometimes faster
than education alone, andemployers are really starting to
notice that.
A graduate degree is not agolden ticket, and it's not a
guarantee that you will get thejob you want.
It gives you a leg up, as longas you have the other things
that employers are looking for.
Skills, experience, andprofessional logic.
(12:23):
And what would be even better ifopportunities to get relevant
experience are built into yourgraduate program, then you get
both Besides getting your dreamjob and becoming a more
desirable candidate.
Another major reason why youmight be considering grad school
is to get more pay.
Whether a grad degree isnecessary to get the pay and or
job you want really depends onyour specific industry, which
(12:46):
leads me to the first majorfactor you should consider your
industry.
When I was considering gradschool fresh out of Penn State,
there were some larger shiftshappening in higher education as
an industry that I didn't knowabout.
And people still didn't know allthe ways that COVID would affect
education.
So at that time, back in 2021,many colleges and universities
(13:07):
were still requiring entry levelstudent services staff to have
their master's degree.
Like I shared earlier, but nowyou don't need a master's degree
to enter higher educationbecause in the last two years,
there has been a shortage ofqualified student affairs
professionals.
Instead, hiring managers arelooking at experience and
transferable skills.
(13:28):
This is why it's so important toresearch the current state of
your industry and get opinionsfrom people in your field.
What are they observing?
What are they hearing fromleaders at their company and in
the field?
Informational interviews are anamazing way to do this.
Comment below if you'reinterested in an episode on
informational interviews in thefuture.
You can also follow topcontributors in your field on
(13:50):
LinkedIn and sign up fornewsletters from professional
associations.
I highly recommend joining theProfessional Association for
your field, profession, etcetera, et cetera.
It's just a really great way tomeet people and you really
should be a part of theProfessional Association.
You might even be able to accessthe membership directory on the
Association website, even ifyou're not paying to be a member
(14:11):
of the Association.
And then you can find people onthe directory who you can reach
out to for informationalinterviews from there.
Besides informationalinterviews, LinkedIn is one of
the best possible tools you canuse to further your career in
general, but also just to doyour research about your
industry.
You can use the search featureon LinkedIn to find people who
(14:32):
work in roles you're consideringat some of the companies that
you might want to work foreventually, and look at those
people's experience.
What degrees, skills, andexperience do they have?
Whether a master's degree isrequired can also depend on the
size of the company they workfor.
So look at people who work atdifferent size companies.
Um, and if you're interested inworking at both for profit and
(14:54):
not for profit companies, alsolook at the differences there as
well.
Now, a master's degree is stillrequired to move up and out of
an entry level role in my fieldin particular.
If you find that the same istrue in your industry, or if
it's something that's notrequired but that could
definitely set you apart fromother candidates, maybe the
(15:15):
question is, should I get mymaster's degree right now?
Some of the reasons you mightwait, or maybe not get a grad
degree at all, are money,needing time to save, waiting
for your company or a futurecompany to pay for your
education, Time having othercommitments and
responsibilities, not wanting tospend multiple years, taking
classes, not knowing what youwant to do with your career yet,
(15:37):
or which specific degree youwant.
So first on my mind is typicallythe cost.
I think that's just reallyimportant when you're thinking
about is your education worthit?
Grad school can be expensive andthat can be really stressful
when you don't know whether therisk is worth the reward.
So here's what you need to know.
There are two kinds of costs.
(15:58):
The direct costs or the cost oftuition, books, relocation
expenses, and anything else thatwould have an immediate and
measurable impact.
This includes taking out a loan.
The other type of cost areopportunity costs.
Opportunity costs are what youwould potentially miss out on
when you choose one alternativeover another.
(16:18):
For example, the salary youwould forfeit if you choose to
go to grad school instead ofworking full time, the work
experience you would miss outon, again, if you choose not to
work while in school, and anopportunity cost might be any
job opportunities you miss outon if you don't gain relevant
work experience while in school.
Most people focus only on thedirect cost and forget all about
(16:41):
opportunity costs.
You should consider both.
So for direct costs, unlessyou're getting your doctorate or
your employer is paying for yourdegree, you'll likely pay close
to the sticker price for gradschool.
Overall, grad students receiveless funding than undergrads, so
I wouldn't go in expecting theschool to cut the price in half
with merit aid and scholarshipsafter you apply.
(17:03):
On the other hand, grad programscan offer some unique
opportunities that might helpyou pay for school.
For example, gradassistantships.
Assistantships are paid workopportunities that are typically
on campus and are relevant tothe degree.
And these are great because wealready talked about how
important relevant workexperiences for getting a job
(17:23):
today, where I went to gradschool, having an assistantship
also gave you tuition remission,meaning that your tuition was
waived.
This does not mean that theentire cost of grad school is
waived sometimes, maybe at stateschools.
The fees are higher than thetuition.
So, really do your research andwatch out for that.
There might be scholarshipsavailable for people who meet
(17:44):
very specific eligibilityrequirements.
For example, if you're from astate that the university is
trying to recruit more studentsfrom, they might offer you a
scholarship.
My school also gave people wholived on campus a 5, 000 yearly
housing credit.
However, if the school doesn'thave housing available, and the
other grad students snag itfirst, won't get the credit.
(18:06):
Which is actually what happenedto me, so I did have to go pay
for expensive off campushousing.
Every university has differentfunding opportunities that vary
greatly from school to school.
So I highly encourage you topolitely interrogate your
designated financial aidrepresentative at each school
you're applying to so you knowexactly what you can expect to
(18:26):
pay.
Before you get there, that isone of the biggest mistakes that
I see grad students.
I work with every day.
It's one of the biggest mistakesthey make.
They come to me and they'redesperate to find an on campus
or off campus part time jobbecause they can't afford their
tuition and they didn't.
Calculate how much it wouldactually cost.
And it's really sad.
(18:47):
So for cost related questions,always go to financial aid.
As you consider each school,you'll probably also communicate
with the program director.
Remember that it is the programdirector's job to recruit you
their job and having students toteach depends on it.
So as nice and as welcoming asthey may be talk to financial
(19:07):
aid, so you know exactly whatyou can expect to pay.
People also often ask, does thereputation of the school matter?
Because reputation and prestigeoften means higher prices.
Remember that while a school'sreputation may help you later on
in the hiring process, it doesnot replace having valuable work
(19:28):
experience, and it doesn'tchange the cost.
If you've done your research andyou've come to the decision that
you want to go to grad school,that's great.
I'm so happy for you.
Just be realistic about what youcan afford and what your limit
is for what you're willing tospend.
And because reputation doesn'treplace having valuable work
experience, it's generally notas important as people think it
(19:50):
is.
Still do your research and makesure that this is true for your
specific industry.
If you're paying for yourdegree, I'm assuming you want to
know that you're getting a goodeducation.
Reputation makes us feel like wewill, because it's supposed to
be a great school, right?
But it's important to ask, whyis this program reputable?
Why is it well known?
(20:10):
Is it just because of the nameof the university?
Or is it because this programhas a track record of their
graduates becoming employed intheir field within six months of
graduation?
That statistic matters way moreto me than the name of the
university.
Are employers hiring graduatesfrom this program because the
school has adequately preparedthese graduates to work in their
(20:31):
field?
Or, does the program guaranteefield placements?
These are all questions that youshould be asking.
And we still didn't even get toopportunity costs yet.
If you want to get the most outof your degree, minimizing
opportunity costs is the way todo it.
The biggest opportunity costs Imentioned are the salary and
work experience you would giveup if you choose to go to grad
(20:52):
school instead of work fulltime.
I would think about how you canboth make money while in school
to offset the cost and how youcan gain relevant experience.
Another thing that breaks myheart is when people work a full
or part time job that is notrelevant to their field to
offset the cost, but because ofthat they miss out on
internships, assistantships,research, or other kinds of
(21:15):
experience because they need towork and then they'd have no
time to do other kinds ofexperiences.
You will get less out of yourgrad program for your hard
earned money and might have aharder time getting the job you
want when you graduate than yourpeers who had those other
experiences.
If you need to work while inschool, how can you find some
kind of middle ground?
(21:36):
Can you cut back on some hoursat your other job?
Move from full to part time tofree up some space in your
schedule to get other workopportunities offered by your
program.
You do have options.
I was very lucky, and then Iended up getting a full time job
at the university where I wasgoing to grad school.
So I took two classes instead ofthree classes each semester, and
(21:58):
I also took classes in thesummer to make it work.
I worked in career services, soI was gaining relevant
experience that helped me getthe job I have now.
I still had to pay for school,though.
Don't be fooled.
I still had to take out loans.
But the last thing I'll sayabout opportunity costs is that
if you haven't guessed it bynow, one area where I am very
biased is that you shoulddefinitely choose a grad program
(22:21):
that offers opportunities togain relevant experience.
Do they offer assistantship andresearch opportunities?
Do they require students tocomplete an internship or
practicum?
Do they work with students tohelp them obtain these off
campus work opportunities?
These experiences, again, arewhat you have to show for your
program on your resume.
How you applied the theoriesthat you learned to practice and
(22:44):
hands on experience.
These are the things that youcan talk about in an interview.
I can't emphasize this enough.
And a quick note about employerspaying for your degree, because
I do get a lot of questionsabout how this happens.
Some large companies offer thisbenefit to all employees, and
you're told about this benefitwhen you're hired there, or you
(23:05):
can easily find it on HR'swebsite.
Sometimes people are able tonegotiate continuing education
as part of their job offer.
And sometimes the company offersthis as a benefit, but if you
choose to use this benefit, youenter into a contract stating
that you will work at thatcompany for a certain number of
years.
So that way the company gets itsreturn on its investment for
(23:25):
paying for your degree.
Sometimes it definitely can bebeneficial to wait to get your
master's if you plan to start anew job and you know you're
applying to companies that offerthis benefit or companies where
you think you may be able tonegotiate this as part of your
package.
Of course, make sure you knowwhat your current organization
offers if you're currentlyworking full time and you think
(23:47):
your organization might be ableto pay for some of your grad
school.
Now moving on to time andbalancing school and personal.
Maybe you have other commitmentsand responsibilities, or you're
just not sure if you want tospend multiple years of your
life taking classes.
Are you willing to put in thatextra time outside of class to
make your degree worthwhile?
(24:08):
I worked a full time traditionalnine to five job.
I took grad classes at nightfrom 30 PM.
Grad classes are longer, butthey typically happen only once
a week for each class.
So you can expect to haveanywhere from two to three
classes each week for about twoto three hours each.
Now, I'm not sure if thischanges, if you're in a
(24:28):
scientific stem kind of fieldand you have labs, you might
have more of a time commitmentthere, but professors will
likely tell you that each credithour yields about three hours of
work per week.
So if you have three, three hourclasses, that's nine credit
hours, which means you shouldexpect another 27 hours of work
outside of class every singleweek.
(24:50):
Every program is different, butgrad school is meant to push you
and take you to the next levelof your career.
To get the most out of yourprogram, you shouldn't be half
assing it, you should be givingit your all, and you'll easily
be able to put in at least 20hours a week, if not the 27 that
we just talked about, for yourclasses if you're doing your
assigned readings and your otherassignments with just a moderate
(25:12):
level of commitment.
I remember spending half of myone hour lunch break doing work
every single day.
Then, refreshing my memory ofthe readings while I was eating
dinner between five and six.
Class was at six.
And then two to three nights aweek, I would do homework after
class when I got home at 9pm.
And I would spend at least oneweekend day every weekend in
(25:32):
JAHO.
That was one of my favoritecoffee shops in Salem and
Boston.
For about six to eight hours,and then spend another three to
four hours doing work every day.
on that Sunday night.
When it comes to time andbalancing school and personal
life, I would encourage anyonedeciding whether or not to go to
grad school to think aboutwhat's most important to you.
Most of you listening are inyour 20s.
(25:54):
I'm assuming your career isimportant to you, future earning
potential and or doing what youlove is important to you.
And this motivation, especiallyif you're studying something
that you really enjoy, will getyou through the program.
It's really important.
Do you have responsibilities youlegitimately can't sacrifice
like taking care of family,taking care of your physical and
mental health?
It's time with your friends andgoing out on the weekends, your
(26:17):
priority right now.
And again, if it is good foryou, we're young, it's the best
time to be social.
If money is a little tight,maybe really value having a full
or part time job right now.
I want you guys to think aboutall of these things because
something does have to give.
Even though we're young, eventhough many of us don't have
anyone dependent on us, it isstill really, really hard.
(26:40):
Talk with the program directorat your school to learn about
the time commitments andexpectations of the program, and
be really honest with yourselfabout how grad school is going
to fit into your life.
Grad school can be great, but Istill want to be honest.
Working full time while going tograd school was one of the
hardest things I've ever done.
I have always been that kind ofperson who says, you know, if
(27:03):
you put your mind to it, you cando anything.
The sky's the limit.
No one else can hold you back.
I've always been superindependent.
I've always worked towardsreally high goals that I set for
myself.
And still I wasn't able to getas much as I wanted out of my
classwork because I was so tiredall the time.
My mental health was at thelowest point it has ever been.
(27:23):
And I didn't have a supportsystem because I moved nine
hours away from home and didn'thave time to make new friends
outside of my program because Iwas working all the time.
I still went into Boston on theweekends.
I still was able to meet people.
Do the things that I set out todo, but it wasn't what I
expected.
Working yourself to the bone canhave a huge impact on even the
(27:43):
strongest people.
And you have to find a self careroutine that actually fills you
up.
That being said.
I did get through it.
Grad school can still be a greatoption.
I'm just saying this because Iwant you to be realistic, and I
don't want anyone going intothis huge decision thinking that
it's going to be easy, becauseit's not.
(28:05):
I will say though, now thatwe're talking about time and
balancing school and personal, Ican't imagine going back to
school, working full time andhaving kids or other family
members dependent on me at thesame time, especially if I
didn't have anyone to help meout.
If you're going to do somethinghard, your twenties might as
well be the best time to do it.
(28:26):
It's a time to take risks, makechoices that you might not have
the luxury to make later inlife.
And at the same time, maybe youdo want to power through grad
school later.
If that means you'll be betteroff financially and you wouldn't
be going into a bunch of studentloan debt.
Again, it's really just whatmatters to you.
At this point, we've talkedabout grad school overall,
(28:48):
researching your industry, cost,balancing school and personal
life.
What's left?
Long term benefits.
How important is what you learnversus the actual degree?
What if you don't know what youwant to do with your career yet
and alternatives to grad school?
I really decided to pack thisall into one episode.
Um, so long term benefits andreally your long term goals.
(29:12):
How could this degree help youget the job you want in your
industry?
What might your earningpotential look like with this
degree in your industry?
And will getting this degreehelp you become a better
professional because of what youlearn?
you A lot of this all goes backto industry research, talking to
people in your field, the joband salary that your degree
could lead to variesdramatically across different
(29:33):
industries.
But I still know some of youwill want a more specific
answer, and I get it.
According to the Social SecurityAdministration, there are
substantial differencesattainment.
Men with bachelor's degrees earnapproximately 900, 000 more
immediacy and lifetime earningsin high school graduates.
(29:53):
And women with bachelor'sdegrees earn 630, 000 more than
high school graduates.
Men with graduate degrees earned1.
5 million more in medianlifetime earnings than high
school graduates and women withgraduate degrees, earn 1 million
more than high school graduates.
When you take out the highschool part and look at earnings
(30:15):
compared to those who'vecompleted their bachelor's
degree, men with graduatedegrees earn approximately 600,
000 more than men withbachelor's degrees.
Women with graduate degrees earnapproximately 470, 000 more than
women with bachelor's degrees.
Now, this 2015.
(30:35):
More recent data from theNational Center for Education
Statistics shows that for 25 to34 year olds who worked full
time year round, those who hadhigher educational attainment
also had higher median earningsin 2022.
For example, in 2022, the medianearnings of those with a
master's degree or higher with asalary of 80, 200 were 20
(30:59):
percent higher than the earningsof those with a bachelor's
degree, a salary of 66, 600 astheir highest level of
attainment.
What this more recent datadoesn't show is the gender pay
gap.
I'll do an episode on that inthe future.
And like I said earlier, thevariation in pay by industry
really makes this datameaningless to me.
(31:21):
I get it.
You still want to know, butsince this varies so much by
industry, these statistics, theyjust don't matter.
But moving on.
What you learn versus the nameof the degree.
What if one of your long termgoals is to get better at what
you do and become a moreknowledgeable, well rounded
professional because of what youlearn in grad school.
(31:43):
Sometimes you can't simply learnby doing you need the theories,
tools, techniques to do your jobthe best, or to give your client
the best experience.
If you offer independentservices or you do freelance
work.
One example of this is lifecoaching versus clinical mental
health counseling.
Anyone can become a life coach.
There's no governing body thatsays you need to have X, Y, Z
(32:06):
certification.
The certification is justoptional, but for a clinical
mental health counselor, if youare a client seeking mental
health support, I assume youwant to know that that counselor
has all of the theories, all ofthe techniques from their
program, because of the kind ofsupport they're administering to
you.
So.
Anyway, you need the theoriessometimes, and this leads us
(32:29):
into a discussion about howimportant is what you learn
versus the name of the degree.
Whether your goal is to move up,get your dream job, get better
at what you do, become a betterprofessional, or all of the
above, what you're learning ingrad school is so important.
You are investing money, time,and effort into your coursework,
so why wouldn't you want to finda program where you're excited
(32:52):
about the classes that you'retaking?
Even if you're thinking, I don'treally care about the degree.
I just know I need it to moveup.
You can come out with a degreeand get the promotion and you'll
be happy, but it will be so muchmore fulfilling if you choose a
program where you're excited togo to class and you come out
with skills and experience thatyou're really proud of.
(33:13):
When I chose my school and mydegree, I didn't really care
that I felt lukewarm about someof the classes.
I ended up learning more aboutthe field of higher education
and how my field operates than Idid about how to do my actual
job, which is career counseling.
I learned everything I know nowabout career counseling and
career advice purely throughwork experience.
(33:33):
My classes definitely helped.
They gave me a differentperspective when working with
college and university students,but if I had the chance to do it
over again, I would havepreferred something more skills
based.
We'll come back to classes andskills in a minute.
What if you don't know what youwant to do with your career?
And this is my favorite part oftoday's episode, guys.
It will all come full circle.
(33:55):
I don't think you should go tograd school if you have no idea
what you want to do with yourcareer.
There it is.
I said it.
That's my opinion.
Even if money isn't a factor,your time is so valuable,
especially in your twenties.
This is the time where you'resetting yourself up for your
dream job in your thirties andforties and your future success.
(34:18):
In the two years that it takespeople to finish their master's
degree on average, you could bedoing so many other things that
will help you figure out whatyou want to do.
Then you can save your money andtake more informed steps towards
your future.
After you have a cleardirection, shadow people,
conduct informationalinterviews, get a relevant
internship, get an entry leveljob in your field that lets you
(34:40):
dabble in everything at a basiclevel.
So you learn what you like, getcertifications, Grad school may
help you figure out what youwant to do and might confirm for
you that this career is aperfect fit, but there's a good
chance that it won't.
What you want to avoid isgetting your grad degree and
realizing along the way, orafter the fact that you want to
(35:00):
go a different direction, thisstill might happen.
Even if you thought for surethat your grad degree was right
for you.
And that's okay.
But what if that differentdirection also requires a
master's degree?
If at that point it's stillfeasible for you to get a second
graduate degree, thisunfortunately may cause
suspicion for some employers whoare wondering why you have two
(35:22):
master's degrees, or it couldmake you overqualified for the
jobs you want, which can alsohurt you in the job search
process.
I'm not trying to scare you.
There are always ways to frameyour experience and
qualifications later.
So your application is moreattractive to employers.
It's just something to thinkabout.
There is one exception to myoriginal statement.
(35:43):
You shouldn't go to grad schoolif you don't know what you want
to do.
And that's if you're interestedin a specific job family or
category of careers, and youjust need to find your niche
within your field.
In my higher ed program, most ofmy peers didn't know exactly
what functional area of thefield they wanted to specialize
in.
I was the only one who knewcareer counseling was for me.
(36:04):
But by the end of the program,almost everyone there knew what
they wanted to do because ofwhat they had learned about the
field through the program andthe internships they had.
Grad school can actually be agreat choice if this is you,
because not only can it help youfocus your interests and figure
out what you love, but it setsyou up for a more advanced role
once you graduate.
(36:24):
Someone in my program who hadnever had a full time job, but
who had a ton of internshipexperience, went to conferences
and won awards, She bypassedentry level roles and got her
first job as an assistantdirector at a great school.
If you're not sure what you wantto do and you still want to go
to grad school, one thing Italked about with Sarah in our
(36:44):
last episode is the importanceof gaining transferable skills
and liking what you learn.
This is a full circle moment.
I said I was coming back.
So here's a clip from myconversation with Sarah in
episode three.
Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite Us (36:59):
Is there anything that you've done
that has been really helpful inmaking a decision?
Whether it's to gain moreinformation, to do research,
maybe some informationalinterviews or shadowing.
Is there anything that you'vedone that you think our
listeners could implement ifthey're struggling to make their
decision?
Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite (37:15):
Yeah, so I will say the first thing
that I did I looked at whatprograms were even offered at my
university.
That was step number one.
And fortunately, butunfortunately, the university
offers a ton of differentmaster's programs.
However, I will say that when Iwas looking at the programs, I
(37:35):
also looked at their curriculum.
one thing I feel like I might beable to cross off the list is
getting a master's in highereducation.
Just because when I look throughthe classes that I would have to
take They didn't really resonatewith me and they didn't really
click Which is interestingbecause again, I love campus
environment.
I am fine with my job right nowSo I was kind of surprised that
(37:59):
I I didn't really click with thecurriculum, but whatever.
Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite Usb (38:02):
I also love that because a lot of
people, when they go to school,they think about the outcome.
Like, what can I do with thisdegree?
But, it's so important to knowthat you're going to like what
you learn, and that you're goingto be gaining skills that you
actually want to take with you,in addition to just the name of
the degree, because If you'reopen to a lot of options, you
(38:22):
want to be able to talk aboutthose transferable skills.
So anyway, love that you didthat.
Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite (38:27):
thank you, thank you.
Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite Usb (38:29):
I think in this stage of life,
it's really easy for people tofeel stuck, especially if you
don't know what your next stepsare.
So I think what's important isthat.
We all continue to seek outsmall ways that we can gain new
skills or improve ourselves,even if we don't know what our
dream job or our passion isSomething that you recently told
(38:49):
me is that you're participatingin something called
Toastmasters.
Can you tell us what that is andwhat prompted you to get started
with it?
Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite (38:58):
Yeah.
So Toastmasters is, I believe,an international club where you
can practice public speaking,gain leadership experience, and
then also get comfortable doingon the spot public speaking.
Erin (39:17):
And last but not least, alternatives to grad school.
How can you gain skills andexperience without committing to
a grad degree?
This is probably not what youwould expect me to say, but you
can actually take one or twoclasses towards the program
you're interested in withoutpursuing the full degree.
Many programs allow this simplybecause they want your money.
(39:37):
And this can be great if youknow that gaining one specific
skill would be really helpful.
For example, learning aprogramming language and
applying it in a class, taking aproject management course, if
you want to enter into amanagement role, taking a
marketing class.
If you're looking to take onsome marketing tasks for your
company and possibly transitioninto that space, you're looking
at a couple thousand dollars,maybe even less for one class,
(40:00):
instead of potentially thousandsof dollars for an entire degree.
If you're trying to move up inyour current company, you're
also way more likely to convinceyour boss to pay for one class
that is directly related to yourjob than convincing your company
to pay for the full degree.
If that's not something theytypically do for their
employees.
The same is true forcertifications.
(40:22):
I am a huge proponent ofcertifications because you get
to say you're certified insomething on your resume.
Yay.
Who doesn't want that?
And because certificationssometimes take even less time to
complete than a class.
And on top of that, they're evenmore focused on one specific
skill.
Certifications range in price.
And if you can afford them, youcould quickly rack up two to
(40:43):
three certifications in onesummer and dramatically boost
your value as a professional.
Certificates.
You can get a certificateinstead of a grad degree and
certificates are different thancertifications.
A certificate means that you'vecompleted a handful of related
classes.
So for example, taking three tofour classes in project
(41:04):
management and projectmanagement certificates are a
Very popular.
If you didn't know activitieswith your professional
association or anotherprofessional club, Sarah talked
about this in episode three aswell.
She currently participates inToastmasters, which is a public
speaking club.
Next internships, full timejobs, and even volunteer roles
(41:25):
are also great alternatives tograd school.
Like I said in the verybeginning, professional logic,
soft skills, and hands onexperience are so valuable to
employers and are things thatgrad school and formal education
doesn't always teach.
Even if you think you don't havetime in your schedule for these
opportunities, you can alwaysshadow other professionals and
(41:46):
conduct informational interviewsjust to get started.
Talk to your manager about theskills you want to gain and how
you want to grow.
Your manager might be willing towork with you, and Sarah also
talked about this again in lastweek's episode.
In a future episode, we'll talkabout the art of job crafting,
which is making smalladjustments in your current role
to gain new skills and move inthe direction you want.
(42:07):
There are so, so, so manyalternatives to grad school that
we could talk about all day,honestly.
And that is every factor youmust consider before going to
grad school.
Guys, that was a lot ofinformation.
Making any decision about yourcareer can be overwhelming.
It can be really scary, but Iwant you to know that I'm here
(42:28):
for you.
I support you.
I really want you to succeed.
And in the words of the greatMaren Morris, every good show
needs an intermission time to beintentional, reflect, and think
about what makes sense for you,you'll be just fine.
Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite Usb (42:41):
I hope you found today's episode
helpful.
Career Composer will be backwith a new episode every other
Monday.
And if today's topic reallyresonated with you, I hope
you'll consider leaving a reviewwherever you listen to your
podcasts.
Reviews will really help thispodcast grow so I can keep
bringing you the career contentthat you want.
You can also email me atcareercomposerpodcast at gmail.
(43:04):
com with feedback or questions,because I want to give you the
career advice that you actuallywant to hear.
That's all for now.
Thank you so much for listening.
I'll see you next time and havea great day.
This is Career Composer.
I'm Erin, and I'm helping you,professionals under 30, navigate
your careers with a music themedtwist.
I'm giving you the job searchand career advice you need to
get that job, but we'll alsotalk about music, how to balance
our personal and professionallives, and figure out what we're
meant to do.
Ready?
(00:38):
Let's go.
Hi guys.
Welcome back for another episodeof career composer.
I'm Erin.
I'm a full time career counselorin Washington, DC and in my full
time job, I specifically coachmasters and PhD students.
So today I'm so excited to besharing every factor you must
consider before going to gradschool.
These are the factors thattypically influence people's
(00:59):
decisions, but also what no onetells you about grad school and
how to assess whether or notit's really the right choice for
you.
In our last episode, I broughtmy friend, Sarah on the podcast
who shared her experiencedeciding whether or not to go to
grad school.
So I really encourage you tocheck out that episode as well.
As always, if you want to getright to the career content, the
timestamp is in the show notesbelow.
(01:21):
You can also stay up to date onall things career composer by
following us on Instagram, TikTOK, and X at career composer.
Every song we talk about on thepodcast can be found on our
master career composer playlist.
And there's a link to a surveyin the show notes below where
you can submit songwrecks andplaylist ideas too.
Finally, you can always email meat careercomposerpodcast at
(01:42):
gmail.
com with questions, comments,and suggestions.
Symphony If you're new here, thePrelude is our music portion of
Career Composer that's a brieflittle appetizer to our career
content.
Today, we're digging into theMiley vs.
Bruno Mars of it all, and youget a bonus round.
In the spirit of makingdecisions about grad school, I
also couldn't decide what musicto cover.
(02:03):
So, you get all of it, and we'llalso cover some female singer
songwriters that I think gotbrushed over during the Chapel
Roan revolution this summer.
Getting into it, a lot of youhave probably heard by now that
Miley Cyrus is being sued forher song Flowers for copyright
infringement of When I Was YourMan by Bruno Mars.
My mom is actually the one whotold me about this back in
(02:25):
September.
Bruno's people who are suingher, not Bruno Mars himself.
And they're essentially sayingthat she copied the song.
Now that I've had some time tothink about this, there are a
couple of things that I thinkare pretty interesting.
When I was your man was releasedon January 13th in 2013 and
flowers came out on January12th, 2023.
(02:48):
So if it had been one more day,it would have been exactly 10
years later.
The 10 years thing is kind offreaky to me, so I was wondering
when music copyright expires andwhen lyrics and melodies are
fair game.
Music copyright lasts for thelife of the author plus 70
years.
This is a really long time whenyou think about US patents,
(03:10):
which expire for a product afterjust 20 years, even if the
inventor is still alive.
And here's what I'm mostconcerned about.
Will Miley's Grammy be takenaway?
First of all, this is Miley'sfirst Grammy.
I have no idea why at the climband party in the USA, we're not
deserving of Grammys back in theday, but I'll live.
(03:31):
I would just be so sad for Mileybecause I believe that she's
really earned this recognition.
And also, do we think theAcademy considered the fact that
this song is so similar to WhenI Was Your Man?
Or did they discount thatbecause Tempo Music, Bruno Mars
people, hadn't jumped on thelawsuit yet?
At the same time, I candefinitely see why the
(03:52):
songwriters for When I Was YourMan would be really upset.
On that note, I do think we needto acknowledge just how crazy
similar these two songs are.
People copy each other in musicall the time.
You can easily search on YouTubeand see just how many pop songs
use the exact same chords withthe exact same chord
progression.
But in the show notes, I linkeda mashup of flowers.
(04:14):
And when I was your man, thespecific mashup is by a YouTuber
called cup of beer, and thechannel has a ton of us and K
pop covers.
I also linked a billboardarticle published in 2023, right
after flowers came outexplaining from billboards
perspective, why Miley Cyrusdoes not need to credit Bruno
Mars on flowers.
So if you're interested,definitely check out those two
(04:36):
things in the show notes below.
Speaking of Bruno, his song withLady Gaga, die with a smile.
I love that song.
Again, this is coming out.
A month after, Die With a Smileis released, but I'm still
listening to it.
I don't love the other new onethat he just came out with, the
one with the pink cover.
And I also really don't likeLady Gaga's new album, but I
(04:57):
really love this song.
Also on the agenda for today arethe female singer songwriters
who fell under the radar whenChapel was, quite literally,
taking over the world.
I also must say, it makes me sohappy that Chapel is so popular.
I really don't think music likehers would have been this
popular 10 years ago.
And I went to a spin class whereit was Chapel Rhone versus
(05:19):
Olivia Rodrigo and the spininstructor wore a curly red wig
for Chapel Rhone as she wasrunning the spin class.
It was insane.
And I was just so excited tolook around and see how many
people knew every single word tothe chapel songs.
First we have Cut by MarenMorris and Julia Michaels.
This one is from Maren'sIntermission EP.
(05:40):
Very fitting for those of us whodon't have it all figured out.
Basically the message is, it'sjust intermission.
We're just getting started,which I love.
Next is Terrified by DebbieDawson.
If you remember, Any song fromtoday, please go listen to
terrified.
This is just one of those songsthat I really couldn't turn off.
(06:01):
It came on either from Spotify'srelease radar or like, I don't
know, one of those curated foryou playlists.
And it came on as I was walkingaround my neighborhood and I
just immediately thought thisperson's voice is so special,
Erin (06:17):
The hype she's getting kind of reminds me of
When Celeste gained popularity.
I'll add some songs by Celestetoo.
If you don't know who Celesteis.
She's the one who sings,
Isn't It Strange?
Strangers to friends, friendsinto lovers, and strangers
again.
that song.
There was a cover of it inBridgerton.
It was on that new Netflix showwith, um, Kristen Bell.
(06:43):
Uh, oh my gosh.
Nobody wants this.
So for some reason, the song byCeleste is in every TV show,
movie, whatever.
But what they were saying aboutCeleste, is that she sounded
like Adele.
Had the same potential as Adeleand I will say that Celeste
voice is the
closest I've heard to Adele.
(07:03):
my friend Sarah describedCeleste's voice really well.
She said it sounds like she'svery much on the edge of her
voice, which is a great way toput it.
anyway.
Definitely listen to Terrifiedby Debbie Dawson.
I also think that she haspotential to become really,
really big.
I'm also going to throw a couplemore songs on the playlist this
week, just because I feel likeit.
(07:24):
And the first one is Labor byParis Paloma.
I also love the song Fruits andit's called Free Fall by her.
Paris Paloma's full albumCacophony came out in August.
A couple others that didn't comeout this summer, but Again, I
just feel like putting on theplaylist.
Should've Been Me by Mitski, whois the same artist who sings My
(07:44):
Love Mine All Mine, and thenSelf Care by Lily and Madeline,
which came out a while ago, butI just love the song.
Now let's get into it.
Every factor you must considerbefore going to grad school D
minor, K.
504, No.
(08:07):
today, we've got what employers are looking for.
Researching your industry, thebest time to go to grad school
cost, balancing school andpersonal long term benefits for
your career and earningpotential.
How important is what you learnversus just having the degree.
Should you go to grad school?
If you don't know what you wantto do with your career
alternatives to grad school andso much more.
(08:29):
We're covering Everything today.
I'm so glad I can give you guysthis information all in one
place.
I really wish I had thisinformation when I was looking
at grad schools three years ago.
I also want you to know thatwhile I do coach masters and PhD
students for my full time job,I'm not biased towards either
choice.
(08:49):
I always tell my students I haveno loyalty to the university I
work at.
If it's better for you to quityour grad program and go start
your dream side gig businessthat you want to build, go do
it.
I really don't care if you go tograd school.
There are so many paths tosuccess.
So I really just wanted to comeat this episode today from an
objective standpoint.
(09:10):
I'll also use some examples frommy own grad school experience
today.
So to kick us off, I'll quicklyshare my story.
When I graduated college, I waspretty sure I wanted to be a
career counselor, maybe becomethe director of a career office.
I'd worked in Penn State'sCareer Services Center as a
student for two years, and Iloved it.
I wasn't set on getting mymaster's right away, but I did
(09:32):
know that I would need one tomove up in my field.
So I decided to get my master'sof education in higher education
and student affairs.
I looked into counselingprograms, wasn't really
interested in clinical programsor school counseling.
So those are the routes I weededout.
I also knew it would bedifficult to get an entry level
job in career services without amaster's.
(09:52):
Something that's really uniqueto me is I knew I wanted to live
in Boston since I was 17.
I wasn't able to go to thecolleges that I wanted to so I
went to Penn State and saidthat, well, if I didn't go to
college there, I would be therethe second I graduated from Penn
State.
And that's exactly what I did.
I knew that it would be evenharder at some of the
(10:13):
prestigious colleges there toget an entry level job without a
master's.
Many colleges at the time wererequiring student facing staff
to have their master's degrees.
And I also couldn't afford tolive in Boston or pay the grad
school tuition at BU, BC, orNortheastern.
So I ended up going to SalemState University in Salem,
(10:35):
Massachusetts, which really feltlike the next best thing.
And it was great.
I commuted 35 minutes into thecity on the weekends.
Still got to live out thatdream, have fun, meet people,
really feel like I was doingwhat you're meant to do in your
twenties.
and live out that dream.
of living in Boston, even thoughit was 35 minutes away.
So first, let's talk about wheregrad school is on a macro level
(10:58):
and what employers are reallylooking for.
Across all industries, otherthan academia, non academic
research, medicine, and maybelaw, employers are increasingly
valuing relevant skills and workexperience at a higher level
than a degree.
Other exceptions to this mightbe licensure programs, but
completing a relevant internshipexperience and passing an exam
(11:21):
to demonstrate your skills andknowledge is often part of
getting licensed in your field.
Employers also highly value softskills and professional
etiquette, also known asprofessional logic, the ability
to operate professionally in theworkplace, understanding how
organizations work, sendingprofessional emails, knowing how
(11:41):
to navigate different kinds ofprofessional relationships.
These are all parts ofprofessional logic because
undergrad and graduate degreesare becoming more and more
expensive for a number ofreasons.
Fewer people are pursuing themand are seeking alternative ways
to get experience.
Work experience allows people todevelop the professional skills
(12:01):
and professional logic thatemployers want, sometimes faster
than education alone, andemployers are really starting to
notice that.
A graduate degree is not agolden ticket, and it's not a
guarantee that you will get thejob you want.
It gives you a leg up, as longas you have the other things
that employers are looking for.
Skills, experience, andprofessional logic.
(12:23):
And what would be even better ifopportunities to get relevant
experience are built into yourgraduate program, then you get
both Besides getting your dreamjob and becoming a more
desirable candidate.
Another major reason why youmight be considering grad school
is to get more pay.
Whether a grad degree isnecessary to get the pay and or
job you want really depends onyour specific industry, which
(12:46):
leads me to the first majorfactor you should consider your
industry.
When I was considering gradschool fresh out of Penn State,
there were some larger shiftshappening in higher education as
an industry that I didn't knowabout.
And people still didn't know allthe ways that COVID would affect
education.
So at that time, back in 2021,many colleges and universities
(13:07):
were still requiring entry levelstudent services staff to have
their master's degree.
Like I shared earlier, but nowyou don't need a master's degree
to enter higher educationbecause in the last two years,
there has been a shortage ofqualified student affairs
professionals.
Instead, hiring managers arelooking at experience and
transferable skills.
(13:28):
This is why it's so important toresearch the current state of
your industry and get opinionsfrom people in your field.
What are they observing?
What are they hearing fromleaders at their company and in
the field?
Informational interviews are anamazing way to do this.
Comment below if you'reinterested in an episode on
informational interviews in thefuture.
You can also follow topcontributors in your field on
(13:50):
LinkedIn and sign up fornewsletters from professional
associations.
I highly recommend joining theProfessional Association for
your field, profession, etcetera, et cetera.
It's just a really great way tomeet people and you really
should be a part of theProfessional Association.
You might even be able to accessthe membership directory on the
Association website, even ifyou're not paying to be a member
(14:11):
of the Association.
And then you can find people onthe directory who you can reach
out to for informationalinterviews from there.
Besides informationalinterviews, LinkedIn is one of
the best possible tools you canuse to further your career in
general, but also just to doyour research about your
industry.
You can use the search featureon LinkedIn to find people who
(14:32):
work in roles you're consideringat some of the companies that
you might want to work foreventually, and look at those
people's experience.
What degrees, skills, andexperience do they have?
Whether a master's degree isrequired can also depend on the
size of the company they workfor.
So look at people who work atdifferent size companies.
Um, and if you're interested inworking at both for profit and
(14:54):
not for profit companies, alsolook at the differences there as
well.
Now, a master's degree is stillrequired to move up and out of
an entry level role in my fieldin particular.
If you find that the same istrue in your industry, or if
it's something that's notrequired but that could
definitely set you apart fromother candidates, maybe the
(15:15):
question is, should I get mymaster's degree right now?
Some of the reasons you mightwait, or maybe not get a grad
degree at all, are money,needing time to save, waiting
for your company or a futurecompany to pay for your
education, Time having othercommitments and
responsibilities, not wanting tospend multiple years, taking
classes, not knowing what youwant to do with your career yet,
(15:37):
or which specific degree youwant.
So first on my mind is typicallythe cost.
I think that's just reallyimportant when you're thinking
about is your education worthit?
Grad school can be expensive andthat can be really stressful
when you don't know whether therisk is worth the reward.
So here's what you need to know.
There are two kinds of costs.
(15:58):
The direct costs or the cost oftuition, books, relocation
expenses, and anything else thatwould have an immediate and
measurable impact.
This includes taking out a loan.
The other type of cost areopportunity costs.
Opportunity costs are what youwould potentially miss out on
when you choose one alternativeover another.
(16:18):
For example, the salary youwould forfeit if you choose to
go to grad school instead ofworking full time, the work
experience you would miss outon, again, if you choose not to
work while in school, and anopportunity cost might be any
job opportunities you miss outon if you don't gain relevant
work experience while in school.
Most people focus only on thedirect cost and forget all about
(16:41):
opportunity costs.
You should consider both.
So for direct costs, unlessyou're getting your doctorate or
your employer is paying for yourdegree, you'll likely pay close
to the sticker price for gradschool.
Overall, grad students receiveless funding than undergrads, so
I wouldn't go in expecting theschool to cut the price in half
with merit aid and scholarshipsafter you apply.
(17:03):
On the other hand, grad programscan offer some unique
opportunities that might helpyou pay for school.
For example, gradassistantships.
Assistantships are paid workopportunities that are typically
on campus and are relevant tothe degree.
And these are great because wealready talked about how
important relevant workexperiences for getting a job
(17:23):
today, where I went to gradschool, having an assistantship
also gave you tuition remission,meaning that your tuition was
waived.
This does not mean that theentire cost of grad school is
waived sometimes, maybe at stateschools.
The fees are higher than thetuition.
So, really do your research andwatch out for that.
There might be scholarshipsavailable for people who meet
(17:44):
very specific eligibilityrequirements.
For example, if you're from astate that the university is
trying to recruit more studentsfrom, they might offer you a
scholarship.
My school also gave people wholived on campus a 5, 000 yearly
housing credit.
However, if the school doesn'thave housing available, and the
other grad students snag itfirst, won't get the credit.
(18:06):
Which is actually what happenedto me, so I did have to go pay
for expensive off campushousing.
Every university has differentfunding opportunities that vary
greatly from school to school.
So I highly encourage you topolitely interrogate your
designated financial aidrepresentative at each school
you're applying to so you knowexactly what you can expect to
(18:26):
pay.
Before you get there, that isone of the biggest mistakes that
I see grad students.
I work with every day.
It's one of the biggest mistakesthey make.
They come to me and they'redesperate to find an on campus
or off campus part time jobbecause they can't afford their
tuition and they didn't.
Calculate how much it wouldactually cost.
And it's really sad.
(18:47):
So for cost related questions,always go to financial aid.
As you consider each school,you'll probably also communicate
with the program director.
Remember that it is the programdirector's job to recruit you
their job and having students toteach depends on it.
So as nice and as welcoming asthey may be talk to financial
(19:07):
aid, so you know exactly whatyou can expect to pay.
People also often ask, does thereputation of the school matter?
Because reputation and prestigeoften means higher prices.
Remember that while a school'sreputation may help you later on
in the hiring process, it doesnot replace having valuable work
(19:28):
experience, and it doesn'tchange the cost.
If you've done your research andyou've come to the decision that
you want to go to grad school,that's great.
I'm so happy for you.
Just be realistic about what youcan afford and what your limit
is for what you're willing tospend.
And because reputation doesn'treplace having valuable work
experience, it's generally notas important as people think it
(19:50):
is.
Still do your research and makesure that this is true for your
specific industry.
If you're paying for yourdegree, I'm assuming you want to
know that you're getting a goodeducation.
Reputation makes us feel like wewill, because it's supposed to
be a great school, right?
But it's important to ask, whyis this program reputable?
Why is it well known?
(20:10):
Is it just because of the nameof the university?
Or is it because this programhas a track record of their
graduates becoming employed intheir field within six months of
graduation?
That statistic matters way moreto me than the name of the
university.
Are employers hiring graduatesfrom this program because the
school has adequately preparedthese graduates to work in their
(20:31):
field?
Or, does the program guaranteefield placements?
These are all questions that youshould be asking.
And we still didn't even get toopportunity costs yet.
If you want to get the most outof your degree, minimizing
opportunity costs is the way todo it.
The biggest opportunity costs Imentioned are the salary and
work experience you would giveup if you choose to go to grad
(20:52):
school instead of work fulltime.
I would think about how you canboth make money while in school
to offset the cost and how youcan gain relevant experience.
Another thing that breaks myheart is when people work a full
or part time job that is notrelevant to their field to
offset the cost, but because ofthat they miss out on
internships, assistantships,research, or other kinds of
(21:15):
experience because they need towork and then they'd have no
time to do other kinds ofexperiences.
You will get less out of yourgrad program for your hard
earned money and might have aharder time getting the job you
want when you graduate than yourpeers who had those other
experiences.
If you need to work while inschool, how can you find some
kind of middle ground?
(21:36):
Can you cut back on some hoursat your other job?
Move from full to part time tofree up some space in your
schedule to get other workopportunities offered by your
program.
You do have options.
I was very lucky, and then Iended up getting a full time job
at the university where I wasgoing to grad school.
So I took two classes instead ofthree classes each semester, and
(21:58):
I also took classes in thesummer to make it work.
I worked in career services, soI was gaining relevant
experience that helped me getthe job I have now.
I still had to pay for school,though.
Don't be fooled.
I still had to take out loans.
But the last thing I'll sayabout opportunity costs is that
if you haven't guessed it bynow, one area where I am very
biased is that you shoulddefinitely choose a grad program
(22:21):
that offers opportunities togain relevant experience.
Do they offer assistantship andresearch opportunities?
Do they require students tocomplete an internship or
practicum?
Do they work with students tohelp them obtain these off
campus work opportunities?
These experiences, again, arewhat you have to show for your
program on your resume.
How you applied the theoriesthat you learned to practice and
(22:44):
hands on experience.
These are the things that youcan talk about in an interview.
I can't emphasize this enough.
And a quick note about employerspaying for your degree, because
I do get a lot of questionsabout how this happens.
Some large companies offer thisbenefit to all employees, and
you're told about this benefitwhen you're hired there, or you
(23:05):
can easily find it on HR'swebsite.
Sometimes people are able tonegotiate continuing education
as part of their job offer.
And sometimes the company offersthis as a benefit, but if you
choose to use this benefit, youenter into a contract stating
that you will work at thatcompany for a certain number of
years.
So that way the company gets itsreturn on its investment for
(23:25):
paying for your degree.
Sometimes it definitely can bebeneficial to wait to get your
master's if you plan to start anew job and you know you're
applying to companies that offerthis benefit or companies where
you think you may be able tonegotiate this as part of your
package.
Of course, make sure you knowwhat your current organization
offers if you're currentlyworking full time and you think
(23:47):
your organization might be ableto pay for some of your grad
school.
Now moving on to time andbalancing school and personal.
Maybe you have other commitmentsand responsibilities, or you're
just not sure if you want tospend multiple years of your
life taking classes.
Are you willing to put in thatextra time outside of class to
make your degree worthwhile?
(24:08):
I worked a full time traditionalnine to five job.
I took grad classes at nightfrom 30 PM.
Grad classes are longer, butthey typically happen only once
a week for each class.
So you can expect to haveanywhere from two to three
classes each week for about twoto three hours each.
Now, I'm not sure if thischanges, if you're in a
(24:28):
scientific stem kind of fieldand you have labs, you might
have more of a time commitmentthere, but professors will
likely tell you that each credithour yields about three hours of
work per week.
So if you have three, three hourclasses, that's nine credit
hours, which means you shouldexpect another 27 hours of work
outside of class every singleweek.
(24:50):
Every program is different, butgrad school is meant to push you
and take you to the next levelof your career.
To get the most out of yourprogram, you shouldn't be half
assing it, you should be givingit your all, and you'll easily
be able to put in at least 20hours a week, if not the 27 that
we just talked about, for yourclasses if you're doing your
assigned readings and your otherassignments with just a moderate
(25:12):
level of commitment.
I remember spending half of myone hour lunch break doing work
every single day.
Then, refreshing my memory ofthe readings while I was eating
dinner between five and six.
Class was at six.
And then two to three nights aweek, I would do homework after
class when I got home at 9pm.
And I would spend at least oneweekend day every weekend in
(25:32):
JAHO.
That was one of my favoritecoffee shops in Salem and
Boston.
For about six to eight hours,and then spend another three to
four hours doing work every day.
on that Sunday night.
When it comes to time andbalancing school and personal
life, I would encourage anyonedeciding whether or not to go to
grad school to think aboutwhat's most important to you.
Most of you listening are inyour 20s.
(25:54):
I'm assuming your career isimportant to you, future earning
potential and or doing what youlove is important to you.
And this motivation, especiallyif you're studying something
that you really enjoy, will getyou through the program.
It's really important.
Do you have responsibilities youlegitimately can't sacrifice
like taking care of family,taking care of your physical and
mental health?
It's time with your friends andgoing out on the weekends, your
(26:17):
priority right now.
And again, if it is good foryou, we're young, it's the best
time to be social.
If money is a little tight,maybe really value having a full
or part time job right now.
I want you guys to think aboutall of these things because
something does have to give.
Even though we're young, eventhough many of us don't have
anyone dependent on us, it isstill really, really hard.
(26:40):
Talk with the program directorat your school to learn about
the time commitments andexpectations of the program, and
be really honest with yourselfabout how grad school is going
to fit into your life.
Grad school can be great, but Istill want to be honest.
Working full time while going tograd school was one of the
hardest things I've ever done.
I have always been that kind ofperson who says, you know, if
(27:03):
you put your mind to it, you cando anything.
The sky's the limit.
No one else can hold you back.
I've always been superindependent.
I've always worked towardsreally high goals that I set for
myself.
And still I wasn't able to getas much as I wanted out of my
classwork because I was so tiredall the time.
My mental health was at thelowest point it has ever been.
(27:23):
And I didn't have a supportsystem because I moved nine
hours away from home and didn'thave time to make new friends
outside of my program because Iwas working all the time.
I still went into Boston on theweekends.
I still was able to meet people.
Do the things that I set out todo, but it wasn't what I
expected.
Working yourself to the bone canhave a huge impact on even the
(27:43):
strongest people.
And you have to find a self careroutine that actually fills you
up.
That being said.
I did get through it.
Grad school can still be a greatoption.
I'm just saying this because Iwant you to be realistic, and I
don't want anyone going intothis huge decision thinking that
it's going to be easy, becauseit's not.
(28:05):
I will say though, now thatwe're talking about time and
balancing school and personal, Ican't imagine going back to
school, working full time andhaving kids or other family
members dependent on me at thesame time, especially if I
didn't have anyone to help meout.
If you're going to do somethinghard, your twenties might as
well be the best time to do it.
(28:26):
It's a time to take risks, makechoices that you might not have
the luxury to make later inlife.
And at the same time, maybe youdo want to power through grad
school later.
If that means you'll be betteroff financially and you wouldn't
be going into a bunch of studentloan debt.
Again, it's really just whatmatters to you.
At this point, we've talkedabout grad school overall,
(28:48):
researching your industry, cost,balancing school and personal
life.
What's left?
Long term benefits.
How important is what you learnversus the actual degree?
What if you don't know what youwant to do with your career yet
and alternatives to grad school?
I really decided to pack thisall into one episode.
Um, so long term benefits andreally your long term goals.
(29:12):
How could this degree help youget the job you want in your
industry?
What might your earningpotential look like with this
degree in your industry?
And will getting this degreehelp you become a better
professional because of what youlearn?
you A lot of this all goes backto industry research, talking to
people in your field, the joband salary that your degree
could lead to variesdramatically across different
(29:33):
industries.
But I still know some of youwill want a more specific
answer, and I get it.
According to the Social SecurityAdministration, there are
substantial differencesattainment.
Men with bachelor's degrees earnapproximately 900, 000 more
immediacy and lifetime earningsin high school graduates.
(29:53):
And women with bachelor'sdegrees earn 630, 000 more than
high school graduates.
Men with graduate degrees earned1.
5 million more in medianlifetime earnings than high
school graduates and women withgraduate degrees, earn 1 million
more than high school graduates.
When you take out the highschool part and look at earnings
(30:15):
compared to those who'vecompleted their bachelor's
degree, men with graduatedegrees earn approximately 600,
000 more than men withbachelor's degrees.
Women with graduate degrees earnapproximately 470, 000 more than
women with bachelor's degrees.
Now, this 2015.
(30:35):
More recent data from theNational Center for Education
Statistics shows that for 25 to34 year olds who worked full
time year round, those who hadhigher educational attainment
also had higher median earningsin 2022.
For example, in 2022, the medianearnings of those with a
master's degree or higher with asalary of 80, 200 were 20
(30:59):
percent higher than the earningsof those with a bachelor's
degree, a salary of 66, 600 astheir highest level of
attainment.
What this more recent datadoesn't show is the gender pay
gap.
I'll do an episode on that inthe future.
And like I said earlier, thevariation in pay by industry
really makes this datameaningless to me.
(31:21):
I get it.
You still want to know, butsince this varies so much by
industry, these statistics, theyjust don't matter.
But moving on.
What you learn versus the nameof the degree.
What if one of your long termgoals is to get better at what
you do and become a moreknowledgeable, well rounded
professional because of what youlearn in grad school.
(31:43):
Sometimes you can't simply learnby doing you need the theories,
tools, techniques to do your jobthe best, or to give your client
the best experience.
If you offer independentservices or you do freelance
work.
One example of this is lifecoaching versus clinical mental
health counseling.
Anyone can become a life coach.
There's no governing body thatsays you need to have X, Y, Z
(32:06):
certification.
The certification is justoptional, but for a clinical
mental health counselor, if youare a client seeking mental
health support, I assume youwant to know that that counselor
has all of the theories, all ofthe techniques from their
program, because of the kind ofsupport they're administering to
you.
So.
Anyway, you need the theoriessometimes, and this leads us
(32:29):
into a discussion about howimportant is what you learn
versus the name of the degree.
Whether your goal is to move up,get your dream job, get better
at what you do, become a betterprofessional, or all of the
above, what you're learning ingrad school is so important.
You are investing money, time,and effort into your coursework,
so why wouldn't you want to finda program where you're excited
(32:52):
about the classes that you'retaking?
Even if you're thinking, I don'treally care about the degree.
I just know I need it to moveup.
You can come out with a degreeand get the promotion and you'll
be happy, but it will be so muchmore fulfilling if you choose a
program where you're excited togo to class and you come out
with skills and experience thatyou're really proud of.
(33:13):
When I chose my school and mydegree, I didn't really care
that I felt lukewarm about someof the classes.
I ended up learning more aboutthe field of higher education
and how my field operates than Idid about how to do my actual
job, which is career counseling.
I learned everything I know nowabout career counseling and
career advice purely throughwork experience.
(33:33):
My classes definitely helped.
They gave me a differentperspective when working with
college and university students,but if I had the chance to do it
over again, I would havepreferred something more skills
based.
We'll come back to classes andskills in a minute.
What if you don't know what youwant to do with your career?
And this is my favorite part oftoday's episode, guys.
It will all come full circle.
(33:55):
I don't think you should go tograd school if you have no idea
what you want to do with yourcareer.
There it is.
I said it.
That's my opinion.
Even if money isn't a factor,your time is so valuable,
especially in your twenties.
This is the time where you'resetting yourself up for your
dream job in your thirties andforties and your future success.
(34:18):
In the two years that it takespeople to finish their master's
degree on average, you could bedoing so many other things that
will help you figure out whatyou want to do.
Then you can save your money andtake more informed steps towards
your future.
After you have a cleardirection, shadow people,
conduct informationalinterviews, get a relevant
internship, get an entry leveljob in your field that lets you
(34:40):
dabble in everything at a basiclevel.
So you learn what you like, getcertifications, Grad school may
help you figure out what youwant to do and might confirm for
you that this career is aperfect fit, but there's a good
chance that it won't.
What you want to avoid isgetting your grad degree and
realizing along the way, orafter the fact that you want to
(35:00):
go a different direction, thisstill might happen.
Even if you thought for surethat your grad degree was right
for you.
And that's okay.
But what if that differentdirection also requires a
master's degree?
If at that point it's stillfeasible for you to get a second
graduate degree, thisunfortunately may cause
suspicion for some employers whoare wondering why you have two
(35:22):
master's degrees, or it couldmake you overqualified for the
jobs you want, which can alsohurt you in the job search
process.
I'm not trying to scare you.
There are always ways to frameyour experience and
qualifications later.
So your application is moreattractive to employers.
It's just something to thinkabout.
There is one exception to myoriginal statement.
(35:43):
You shouldn't go to grad schoolif you don't know what you want
to do.
And that's if you're interestedin a specific job family or
category of careers, and youjust need to find your niche
within your field.
In my higher ed program, most ofmy peers didn't know exactly
what functional area of thefield they wanted to specialize
in.
I was the only one who knewcareer counseling was for me.
(36:04):
But by the end of the program,almost everyone there knew what
they wanted to do because ofwhat they had learned about the
field through the program andthe internships they had.
Grad school can actually be agreat choice if this is you,
because not only can it help youfocus your interests and figure
out what you love, but it setsyou up for a more advanced role
once you graduate.
(36:24):
Someone in my program who hadnever had a full time job, but
who had a ton of internshipexperience, went to conferences
and won awards, She bypassedentry level roles and got her
first job as an assistantdirector at a great school.
If you're not sure what you wantto do and you still want to go
to grad school, one thing Italked about with Sarah in our
(36:44):
last episode is the importanceof gaining transferable skills
and liking what you learn.
This is a full circle moment.
I said I was coming back.
So here's a clip from myconversation with Sarah in
episode three.
Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite Us (36:59):
Is there anything that you've done
that has been really helpful inmaking a decision?
Whether it's to gain moreinformation, to do research,
maybe some informationalinterviews or shadowing.
Is there anything that you'vedone that you think our
listeners could implement ifthey're struggling to make their
decision?
Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite (37:15):
Yeah, so I will say the first thing
that I did I looked at whatprograms were even offered at my
university.
That was step number one.
And fortunately, butunfortunately, the university
offers a ton of differentmaster's programs.
However, I will say that when Iwas looking at the programs, I
(37:35):
also looked at their curriculum.
one thing I feel like I might beable to cross off the list is
getting a master's in highereducation.
Just because when I look throughthe classes that I would have to
take They didn't really resonatewith me and they didn't really
click Which is interestingbecause again, I love campus
environment.
I am fine with my job right nowSo I was kind of surprised that
(37:59):
I I didn't really click with thecurriculum, but whatever.
Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite Usb (38:02):
I also love that because a lot of
people, when they go to school,they think about the outcome.
Like, what can I do with thisdegree?
But, it's so important to knowthat you're going to like what
you learn, and that you're goingto be gaining skills that you
actually want to take with you,in addition to just the name of
the degree, because If you'reopen to a lot of options, you
(38:22):
want to be able to talk aboutthose transferable skills.
So anyway, love that you didthat.
Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite (38:27):
thank you, thank you.
Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite Usb (38:29):
I think in this stage of life,
it's really easy for people tofeel stuck, especially if you
don't know what your next stepsare.
So I think what's important isthat.
We all continue to seek outsmall ways that we can gain new
skills or improve ourselves,even if we don't know what our
dream job or our passion isSomething that you recently told
(38:49):
me is that you're participatingin something called
Toastmasters.
Can you tell us what that is andwhat prompted you to get started
with it?
Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite (38:58):
Yeah.
So Toastmasters is, I believe,an international club where you
can practice public speaking,gain leadership experience, and
then also get comfortable doingon the spot public speaking.
Erin (39:17):
And last but not least, alternatives to grad school.
How can you gain skills andexperience without committing to
a grad degree?
This is probably not what youwould expect me to say, but you
can actually take one or twoclasses towards the program
you're interested in withoutpursuing the full degree.
Many programs allow this simplybecause they want your money.
(39:37):
And this can be great if youknow that gaining one specific
skill would be really helpful.
For example, learning aprogramming language and
applying it in a class, taking aproject management course, if
you want to enter into amanagement role, taking a
marketing class.
If you're looking to take onsome marketing tasks for your
company and possibly transitioninto that space, you're looking
at a couple thousand dollars,maybe even less for one class,
(40:00):
instead of potentially thousandsof dollars for an entire degree.
If you're trying to move up inyour current company, you're
also way more likely to convinceyour boss to pay for one class
that is directly related to yourjob than convincing your company
to pay for the full degree.
If that's not something theytypically do for their
employees.
The same is true forcertifications.
(40:22):
I am a huge proponent ofcertifications because you get
to say you're certified insomething on your resume.
Yay.
Who doesn't want that?
And because certificationssometimes take even less time to
complete than a class.
And on top of that, they're evenmore focused on one specific
skill.
Certifications range in price.
And if you can afford them, youcould quickly rack up two to
(40:43):
three certifications in onesummer and dramatically boost
your value as a professional.
Certificates.
You can get a certificateinstead of a grad degree and
certificates are different thancertifications.
A certificate means that you'vecompleted a handful of related
classes.
So for example, taking three tofour classes in project
(41:04):
management and projectmanagement certificates are a
Very popular.
If you didn't know activitieswith your professional
association or anotherprofessional club, Sarah talked
about this in episode three aswell.
She currently participates inToastmasters, which is a public
speaking club.
Next internships, full timejobs, and even volunteer roles
(41:25):
are also great alternatives tograd school.
Like I said in the verybeginning, professional logic,
soft skills, and hands onexperience are so valuable to
employers and are things thatgrad school and formal education
doesn't always teach.
Even if you think you don't havetime in your schedule for these
opportunities, you can alwaysshadow other professionals and
(41:46):
conduct informational interviewsjust to get started.
Talk to your manager about theskills you want to gain and how
you want to grow.
Your manager might be willing towork with you, and Sarah also
talked about this again in lastweek's episode.
In a future episode, we'll talkabout the art of job crafting,
which is making smalladjustments in your current role
to gain new skills and move inthe direction you want.
(42:07):
There are so, so, so manyalternatives to grad school that
we could talk about all day,honestly.
And that is every factor youmust consider before going to
grad school.
Guys, that was a lot ofinformation.
Making any decision about yourcareer can be overwhelming.
It can be really scary, but Iwant you to know that I'm here
(42:28):
for you.
I support you.
I really want you to succeed.
And in the words of the greatMaren Morris, every good show
needs an intermission time to beintentional, reflect, and think
about what makes sense for you,you'll be just fine.
Analogue 1 + 2 (Focusrite Usb (42:41):
I hope you found today's episode
helpful.
Career Composer will be backwith a new episode every other
Monday.
And if today's topic reallyresonated with you, I hope
you'll consider leaving a reviewwherever you listen to your
podcasts.
Reviews will really help thispodcast grow so I can keep
bringing you the career contentthat you want.
You can also email me atcareercomposerpodcast at gmail.
(43:04):
com with feedback or questions,because I want to give you the
career advice that you actuallywant to hear.
That's all for now.
Thank you so much for listening.
I'll see you next time and havea great day.
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