Conner House - Global Health Sr. Project Manager - Career Contrast

Episode Transcript
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Michael Lane Smith (00:11):
This is Career Contrast and I'm your
host, Michael Lane Smith.
Each week, I'm hosting a newguest to interview them about
their career.
Joining me today is ConnorHouse.
Welcome, Connor, Glad to behere.
What did you want to be whenyou grew up?

Conner House (00:26):
I don't know that growing up I had like one
specific idea, like I didn'twant to be like a firefighter or
like a pilot or something.
I was pretty influenced by mymom.
She's been in healthcare mywhole life and for a while, like
the career day in high school Idid, I shouted like a physical
therapist that that was prettycool.
But I've always been reallyinterested in like international

(00:47):
events, internationalhappenings.
So especially during college Istarted gravitating towards that
.
But I don't know that I likeknew exactly what I wanted to do
.
I just thought the world waspretty cool and I wanted to, to,
you know, be out in it.

So, yeah, what did you study?
Maybe international relations,is that right?

Yeah, so I have like a dual BA from Gonzaga
University in good old Spokane,washington.
I have a BA in internationalstudies and a BA in political
science.
I was also in this like it'scalled the comprehensive
leadership program at Gonzaga,so it gave me a little more
space with credits like it.
I think I could take up to like21 credits a semester or

(01:27):
something.
So I also edited a minor ineconomics in there which was
really interesting and kind ofshaped where I wanted to to go
as well.
So, yeah, it was like a dual BAprogram I took.
I like bypassed like half theinternational, not half.
Like a third or a quarter ofthe international studies degree

(01:50):
was like a foreign language andI took like IB Spanish in high
school and somehow I did prettywell on the IB exam.
So I got placed in Spanish 301.
So I like bypassed a bunch oflike four classes pretty much,
so that kind of opened up mypossibilities.
But I was so bad at Spanish.
I'd have such a better, likesuch a higher GPA if it weren't

(02:13):
for it.
Have you used?
No, I haven't used it.
No like if I travel like I wentto Puerto Vallarta and I could
like get around I can sort ofread spanish but.
I can't speak it.
Yeah, cerveza like corona,those kinds of things right on,
yeah.

So the obvious question what do you do
for work now?

yeah, so I'm a senior project manager at an
organization called path.
Um, path doesn't stand foranything, but the acronym used
to be the Program forAppropriate Technology and
Health back in the 70s, 80s,when it started.
But it's no longer an acronymbecause we do more than just
technology.
But yeah, senior ProjectManager, path is headquartered

(02:58):
in Seattle, where I'm from andwhere I started my career there.
But now I'm in Washington DCwhere we have, like our bigger
policy office and we also have,I think, 16 country offices or
programs around the world.
So, yeah, all over the place,mainly in Africa, southeast Asia
, but we do have an office inlike Ukraine and then Geneva, as

(03:21):
well as a big officeSwitzerland, for all the IGOs,
things like that.
So we're kind of all over theplace.

That's really cool.
That's really cool.
So I understand kind of similarto I don't know if anyone here
has seen the movie the Kid,where Bruce Willis plays an
image consultant.
He's asked like what does thatdo?
And he's like I consult, solike I get project management.
You're a project manager, youmanage projects.
What exactly is that Like?

(03:48):
What do you do day to day?
What kind of problems are youfacing when you sit down at your
desk and do you have a desk?
Yeah, what is that?

That's a good question.
I do manage projects in asenior way, which is exciting.
But you know a lot of my work.
Um, I guess, taking a step back, um, path is made up of a bunch
of different programs and inthose programs are a bunch of
different projects.
Um, and those projects comefrom a lot of different funders.
You know we have like dozens ofdifferent funders coming into

(04:17):
path.
Um, my team is called the marketdynamics program Program and we
look at market-based solutionsto international health problems
.
So I think of it as how do youbreak the cycle, break the wheel
, how do you grow markets so youdon't need organizations like
PATH providing aid and technicalsupport and things like that.

(04:40):
So my team has a few differentdonors, you know, a few
different funders coming in, anda lot of our work revolves
around scaling access to medicaldevices and also a lot of like
medical oxygen.
So people think like, oh, likethe air, the air you breathe,
like you're giving them oxygen.
It's like, yeah, like more,like refined medical oxygen for

(05:03):
treatment of respiratory careconditions.
You know that and that reallykind of exploded after the
COVID-19 pandemic, becauseoxygen is key for for treating
COVID and a variety of otherrespiratory diseases.

But before you dive too deep is access to
oxygen.
Medical specific oxygen is that?
Is that pretty rare in somecorners of the world?

Yeah, I mean, if you go to like the dentist or
the doctor in the US, likeyou're going to see oxygen
outlets in the wall, and that'snot the case for many low
resource settings or low andmiddle income countries.
It's actually pretty rare.
Shortages are common.
There's not a very strongmarket for it.
So where markets do exist, youknow it's kind of bespoke and

(05:46):
there's like a central, you knowmaybe a facility, filling
cylinders and sending it off tohealthcare centers all over the
place.
So it's a bit inefficient.
There's a lot of maintenanceissues because oxygen producing
technologies are challenging andcan be dangerous.
Right, like oxygen can beextremely dangerous.
So there's highly flammableflammable it can explode.

(06:06):
You know you can't.
Cylinders are heavy.
You wheel them around hospitals, they could fall, they could
hurt people.
So yeah, it's, it's.
It's really challenging to findreliable and consistent oxygen
in lower resource settings,especially in sub-Saharan Africa
.

Oh, wow, right on.
Yeah, so you were talking aboutyour specific program focused
on medical oxygen.

Yeah, so I mean, I've been involved with this for
a while and a lot of this, alot of my role, has not changed
much in the last few years,because we've had the same
project for four years now and Iguess a big part of my role is
early on in that project isworking with everybody to build
really comprehensive work plansthat get us towards our the

(06:47):
outputs that we told our funderthat we would um pursue in this
case, the gates foundation andelmo philanthropies.
So you know, in our proposalprocess we outlined a bunch of
different outcomes, a bunch ofdifferent activities and outputs
and it's like okay, now my jobis to work the team backwards
from these deliverables to howwe're going to do this, how

(07:08):
we're going to staff it, howwe're going to break up the
budget.
So a lot of my work revolvesaround tracking those work plans
, making sure that we're, youknow, moving towards, you know,
delivery of these deliverables.
I feel like I'm like doingproject manager speak right now,
but yeah, and deliverable.
What I really like about it is,you know, I get our project

(07:34):
touches 10 different countriesaround the world Senegal,
burkina Faso, the DemocraticRepublic of the Congo, zambia,
malawi, tanzania, kenya, indiaand we're in four states in
India, and each of the states islike the size of a country
Vietnam and Indonesia.
So I got to you know, as I'mmaking sure that these work

(07:55):
plans are being followed, thatwe're moving forward these
concrete outputs anddeliverables.
I got to make sure that thestaff and all those different
countries have what they need tosucceed.
So I got to meet with themevery week, every other week,
and check in with them, see howthings are going, see what they
need, you know.
Make sure that they have theresources that they need and you
know all that to deliver,making sure that I'm connecting

(08:16):
them with the technical supportthat we have in the US and
Europe, you know, for if they'redoing like a supply chain
analysis of, you know wherecylinders are coming from and
why, they're doing a supplychain analysis of where
cylinders are coming from andwhy they're not getting to a

(08:36):
certain place, connecting themwith a supply chain expert on
our team.
I also do a lot to make surethat we have knowledge
management systems in place forour global team, because we have
like 40 people spread across 13countries around the world.
Are we all sharing information?
Where are we putting thisinformation?
Um, what routine and regulartouch points do we have?
Um, yeah, so I get to do a lotof team building, get to do a
lot of making sure, uh, peopleare moving forward things.

(08:59):
So, um, it's pretty cool.
I, I love being able to um,yeah, to just work across
boundaries and, you know, takemorning calls with colleagues in
Zambia and evening calls withcolleagues in Vietnam.
It's pretty cool.

That's awesome.
That's awesome.
Thinking about the scale andimpact of that type of work is a
little mind boggling.
Um, so we'll dive into that alittle bit later, but you know
you got into this role.
I'm assuming it's like an entrylevel project manager.
Is that right Actually?

I was more admin um coming into the role.

Tell me about that yeah.

So I, you know, after college I kind of bounced
around, I worked um at theWashington state Senate as a
clerk and then I thought lawschool was maybe in my future.
So I worked at a law firm and Ididn't really enjoy that
experience.
And you know, I entered the lawfirm as an executive legal
assistant.
So I was already sort of on theadmin side and I knew I sort of

(09:52):
wanted to end up at one ofSeattle's big philanthropic
organizations.
So I knew of PATH, the GatesFoundation and then some other
smaller ones, but started reallyapplying about a year and a
half into the law firm and afterI had some experience, you know
, I got some hits and actuallyjoined the market dynamics team,
the same team that I'm on as aprogram assistant, so like

(10:14):
literally the bottom of thetotem pole at Path, like the
lowest paid worker, you know,just kind of like the grunt job
which you know you need.
And I was fresh out of collegeand ready to do that.
So I got really lucky with mygrowth at Path.
I'm not sure everybody has thesame opportunities that I sort
of had like career progressionand they're like well, how are

(10:45):
you a senior project manager?
How did that happen?
And and it's it's you know Iworked hard but it's also um
part of its luck.
Like the team that I, themarket and the market and the
team that I joined was 13 peopleand we grew to 60 people and
along with that had a lot ofjust career jumps for me.
So I moved to a senior programassistant pretty quick because I
mastered that job and it's kindof cool a path when you do hit.

(11:11):
You know, as you start workingup, you can look to more
technical roles, so associatelevel roles where you're doing a
lot of the analysis, like youown different work streams and
activities, or more projectmanagement focused roles, which
I wanted to take.
I wanted to sort of like havelike a meta view of the whole
project and not just dive intoone work stream.
So I became a projectspecialist.

(11:31):
And then you know I was aproject specialist and COVID
happened and COVID was reallyreally rough professionally for
a lot of people, whether beingforced to work at home, being
laid off.
It was tough.
And you know I was in the rightindustry for COVID, like we got
a ton of money to combat theseglobal health problems, right,

(11:51):
because you think it was bad inthe US, like it was very bad in
Africa, in a place where theydon't have vaccines.
You know they were a yearbehind us on getting vaccines.
They don't have oxygen to treatpeople and to triage people.
So the Gates Foundation gave usquite a lot of money to work
with the Clinton Foundation torespond to that.
And just, you know, along withthat we had a pretty small team

(12:14):
and we had this massive projectcome in.
So I was able to jump up prettyquick to a project manager to
start, you know, supporting theteam to get this done and and
you know, in the last coupleyears I've moved on to senior
project manager.
So had it not been for, you know, as rough as it sounds like the
pandemic, like I don't knowthat I would have leveled up to
this point if we didn't havethat funding come in.

(12:35):
So it is lucky.
It's like if you're on theright team and you you have
funding come in, you do havethose opportunities to grow.
But I've seen a lot of peoplejust hit the ceiling, a path,
and you know they can't findfunding or they, you know, the
grants end.
You know that's a big part ofmy world is that like grants
come in and you're flush forfour years and the grant ends

(12:57):
and it's like there goes yourcoverage, like find more
coverage or follow on funding,or you're out of a job, so okay.

So it seems like it's kind of up to the
teams to secure their ownfunding for their overall
programs and projects.
Is that right?

Yeah, definitely, teams do a lot of their own
business development Path, as aninstitution has a lot of shared
services, like a businessdevelopment team, our lawyers,
our grants and contracting team.
Those people pull from like acentral overhead fund.
So every, every time we get agrant, you know, I think it's

(13:30):
like 13% of that goes to theoverhead pool where our
executives and those thosedepartments that I already
mentioned pulled from.
But then the rest of it, youknow, the bulk of the money goes
to the actual project team toget stuff done.
So, yeah, so a lot of timesthere's like natural follow on
funding or you can find otherproposals, but not all the time.

(13:52):
You know, I've seen it happen afew times where teams you know
their project ends there's nocosted or uncosted extension and
they have to scramble to findother coverage or, you know, or
go down to 60% or, yeah, leavepath, which is always sad, wow.

Yeah, and when you said go down to 60%, do
you guys have like part-timeworkers?

Yes, I think 60% is like the lowest you can go
while keeping benefits as like aFTE, a full-time employee.
We have consultants and stuff.
So there's like ways for PATHemployees to roll out of PATH
and then come back and consult.
But you know you're not like aformal employee anymore and you
lose a lot of that coverage.

Yeah, and so program assistant to senior
program assistant to projectmanager to senior project
manager is that the typical paththat one would take to a
project manager at PATH?

What is the best way to get a job.
There's also opportunities, youknow, like that just get posted
like job ops that externalpeople can apply for or internal
people.
You know, if you're a seniorprogram assistant in a PM,
position opens on another teamlike you can work your way over
there.
Yeah, I will also say projectmanagers I think at Path

(15:27):
specifically, are a bit of anewer thing in the last few
years, are a bit of a newerthing in the last few years.
I think teams are starting tosee the benefit of them.
But when I became a projectmanager there were only a few at
the organization and nowthere's more and more.
Path is a little bit wonky,where we have PADMs.

(15:47):
They're called projectadministrators and those are
sort of the financial managersof the project and then you have
like the admin team.
But there's a lot of room for aproject manager to come in and
help with the, the financialside while managing the work
plans and the day-to-day work,you know.
So there's a padm on our teamwho has the keys to the budget.

So we share a lot of those responsibilities,
both external and internally.
But I'm the one like I'massuming there's a lot of
opportunity for folks to movelaterally or diagonally within
the organization.
How often do you guysprioritize external talent or
internal talent?

Yeah.
Yeah, it's a good question.
I don't know like thepercentage or the ratio.
I do know that if you apply ata job internally at Path, that

(16:48):
you're qualified for.

I think it's had just started to kind of
roll out.
My office had at least a PMoffice, a PMO as we called it,
so I'm seeing that a lot acrossthe business.
I'm at, currently too,increased value for PM.
So just for our listeners,whether it's at Path or
elsewhere, I think there's a lotof opportunity for folks like
this and a lot of great work youcould do.

(17:09):
What would you say if you wereto stay on the PM track, like
after a senior project manager?
What other titles would you gointo?
Wow?

Yeah, it's a good question and definitely
something I've been thinkingabout.

You're 31?
You look like 25, dog.

You're a path for me and I'm like 31.
So naturally you're sort oflike what's next?
Yeah, I know, thank you, Iappreciate it.
I wish I was 25.
No, 30s are great, you havemoney and you can go do things
now.
But yeah, the next step in mycareer is obviously front of

(17:57):
mind, sort of.
The next step for me would be aprogram officer, where you
would be managing your ownprojects and things like that.
So you would be assigning workto the PADM, the PA, the
associates, and you're likefully accountable for those
projects.
So a lot of the times at PATHthose require master's degrees,

(18:19):
which I don't have, somethingI've considered, but just
financially haven't.
There's been like no incentivefor me to get a master's, as
I've sort of grown and grown atPATH.

There are.
Would that be like a master'sin public policy or master?

yeah, public policy, public health, a lot of
people have um mph as a path, alot of people from udub uh, the
mph program and the evans schoolthere, um yeah, mph, mpp, um,
mpa, um an mba is also prettycommon because, you know,
especially on my team, thatlooks at like improving
healthcare markets.

(18:55):
It's like having somebody withbusiness expertise is is pretty
important.
But I do think there are waysfor people who've been at Path
for a while, who have a lot ofexperience that could, you know,
offset a master's degree togrow up into that role.
But kind of, yeah, that's TBD.

Okay, right on, very, very interesting.
So you mentioned a lot oftravel that you've been able to
do at PATH.
Is that typical?
What types of places have yougone to and for what reasons
have they sent you there?

Yeah, I mean, I think that's one of the fun
parts of working in a globalorganization like this and
global health and development isyou do have some opportunities
to travel.
So, um, and I've had, you know,a fair share of path, taking
into consideration like a yearand a half two year, like halt
of all travel during covid, yeah, um, but yeah, I've um, I can

(19:46):
run through the list.
I mean I've been in nairobilike three or four times.
Um, that's A lot of that hasbeen like working with
stakeholders there.
Kenya has like a devolvedhealthcare system.
So, rather than being at thenational level in Nairobi, they
have county health managementteams, chmts.
So, early on a path I think in2019, I was supporting some data

(20:09):
collection.
We were looking at electricityquality and how that electricity
quality affects medical devicesand we got these really cool
like plugs that you plug into anoutlet and it like monitors
electricity quality.
You know, surges, sags, outages, things like that um for like
two weeks and then we'd rotatethem.
This is when I was sort of likebetween a pm and a pa and

(20:31):
trying to just like get as muchwork as I could under my belt.
So, yeah, I got to go to likeout into the field.
You know we call it I think wetry to avoid using that term but
you know out into the countiesand health facilities and we
would meet with the healthfacility lead.
You know we would meet with thecounty health management teams
and then plug the device in thewall and, you know, rotate those

(20:53):
around.
So I was in Kenya for like twoweeks.
I went back to Nairobi.
We had like a big projectkickoff, which is kind of
unusual.
We had some extra funding atthe beginning of the project
that I'm currently staffed on.
So I was in 2021 or 2022.
And I got to sort of like helpcoordinate this giant project
kickoff with a lot of colleaguesthat I've never met before,

(21:14):
right.

But I've worked with virtually.

Yeah, I worked with virtually for years and
years.
And that's another downside ofworking in this like global
organization is I talk to peoplewho I may not, may never meet,
because they're, you know, in acountry that I may never visit
and they may not have anopportunity to come to the U?
S or Europe.
So it was really cool to meeteverybody and went back again

(21:36):
for some staff buildingactivities early last year.
But, yeah, along with that I'vebeen to Dar es Salaam, tanzania
, dodoma, which is the capitalof Tanzania.
We also were doing some work inSenegal, which I mentioned
earlier, and I've been to Dakar,senegal, in Senegal, which I
mentioned earlier, and I've beento Dakar, senegal, yeah.
And then last late last year, wehad sort of a routine internal

(21:58):
audit of our project.
You know, path is they're likealways auditing to make sure
we're adhering to, you know, allof our policies and things.
And they took a look at ourVietnam project undersource, the
main project that I staffed.
So I got to go to Hanoi lastyear, which was really fun, and
meet the team there and see them, yeah.

(22:21):
And then occasionally there'ssome conference opportunities.
We had a conference in Dubaithat I helped actually build and
that was like right when Istarted at Path.
I think after like two months ofbeing at Path, I went to Dubai.
So that was a pretty cool wayto like enter the organization
and I think it set myexpectations pretty high for
travel.
I could be gone like everyother month if I could, like I

(22:44):
really enjoy it, but that's justnot always the case and I think
it you know, it brings intoquestion, especially
post-COVIDcovid like and this issomething that I think I
struggle with like a problemthat we faced um, a challenge is
it's like is it a good look tobe sending white people to
africa on these trips?

(23:04):
Right, like, could we do thisvirtually and save money?
And like, reinvest that moneyinto the project that you would
have spent on airline ticketsand hotels and stuff?
Yeah, um, is this anopportunity to empower somebody
from the country teams to dothis on their own or meet the
stakeholders by themselves andnot need the white dude showing

(23:25):
up to help?
And I think they're very validand it's made me do a lot of
introspective thinking about howto go about this and I think
there's a fine balance.
I think there's also a lot ofvalue in working face to face
and in the same room.
Um, I think everybody cravesthat.
I think humans sort of cravethat, no matter if you're living
in the democratic Republic ofthe Congo or Geneva, like you

(23:47):
want to be in person and havingthese conversations in person.
So, um, I think it's aboutfinding's, about finding balance
with that.
So it's not like people aretraveling, I think, as much as
they used to a path abroad.
I think they're sort ofweighing, you know, putting more
weight behind their decisionsto travel.
So yeah, I do feel reallyblessed for my opportunities and
hope for more.

(24:08):
But yeah, I think a lot ofthought goes into these
decisions.

Absolutely, absolutely.
And I wanted to talk aboutsomething which you brought up,
which is the reception of PATHand the work that you guys do.
And so, if I'm thinking aboutit correctly, you guys identify
a need in X country and theexample you gave was oxygen, but
you also talked about COVID andso in the oxygen example, you
discover that there's a shortageof medically available oxygen.

(24:35):
You know, in X location.
You guys, you know, create awork back for however many years
that's going to take or months,find, you know, funding, you
get the funding, you buy theoxygen, you send it off.
You try to find, maybe evenlike a sustainable recurring
source.
Perhaps you know of solutions,so not just like a one time fix,
but I'm assuming, kind oflonger term fixes.

(24:56):
Am I thinking about theproblems you're solving and how
you're solving them correctly?
Would you describe itdifferently?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's very accurate, right,
like we knew early on thatthere was oxygen shortages,
oxygen issues all the way backin 2016, and working with our
donor, the Gates Foundation, tofund those interventions.
And then how do we keep thatrolling for this long?
It's like one project goes tothe door, opens it, and it's

(25:25):
like if we get more funding, wecan continue to address this and
go down this route.
So there's been a lot of that.
There's also some global bodiesthat do a lot of the steering
of the global health agenda.
That is very important and canhelp direct funding.

What are those organizations?

The WHO, the UN.
The Millennium DevelopmentGoals are huge from the WHO and
you know it's about tacklingthose giant problems facing
humanity.
But also path needs to beadaptable.
You know donors also have theirown agendas and want to see,

(26:03):
you know, certain and specificimpacts and get a return on
their investment and see thatthat money you know being used
as like seed money to grow newprojects and you know how do
they really really create longterm impact so they could turn
around to the people who gavethem money and say, look, look
what we did.
You know, and that's very valid, like that's how this whole
thing works.
Right, we have expertise inpretty much any health area you

(26:34):
can think of and we're alwaysevolving.
You know, from HIV to wash,like clean water programs.
Pat does a lot of liketechnical innovations.
We've done a lot with likeinnovative vaccine delivery
methods.
We've supported there was aclinical trial two years ago of

(26:55):
a malaria vaccine which is justso exciting.
You know can you vaccinateagainst one of the largest
killers of humans out theremalaria and one of the biggest
killers of kids too.
So things like that and we'rewe're also evolving, like we're
looking now at like theintersection between climate
change and health, and you knowhow do we, how do we go about
that and solve those problemsthat are inevitable.

(27:17):
You know like we're going tosee mosquitoes going out of you
know they're the current placeswhere you think of having a
malaria burden will grow becausethe climate is changing, it's
getting warmer.
Mosquitoes can go to new, newand exciting places and infect
people who don't have maybe theimmunity.
Go to new and exciting placesand infect people who don't have
maybe the immunity.

Exciting for them, yeah, so you know,
obviously these are crucialproblems, you know.
I think, if you were to thinkabout the building of the Panama
Canal and how many people diedfrom malaria, like it's very
obvious.
You know these are issues thatexist and you know when you are
approaching a country or anation or a county, how is that

(27:56):
received, how do thoseconversations, you know, even
start?

Yeah, it's a great question.
I think central to this wholepoint that I'm trying to
articulate, like we've done alot of work in like how do we
decolonialize global health?
Like why is it us makingdecisions about what we're
funding?
We should put that burden oncountries to do.
And I think something elsegreat about PATH is, like we

(28:21):
have about I think, 1,600employees and only I think 300
or 400 are in the US and Europe.
Like the rest are all in ourcountry offices and in those
country offices they're allnationals of the country that
they represent and in thosecountry offices they're all
nationals of the country thatthey represent.
So it's really on the countryteams to.
You know they forge theserelationships with ministry of
health officials, you know, atthe national and state level,

(28:43):
and so it's a lot of the work isdone there and conversations
that they have in rooms likewhat are your priorities?
You know how can PATH supportyou in your priorities?
And that's huge.
And I think that's the otherside of things.
So I mentioned when you're likebuilding out project work plans
at the beginning.
A lot of it revolves aroundtalking to country teams to talk
to stakeholders, partners, likeI said, the ministry, the

(29:07):
government officials outside ofthe ministry, like the big
decision makers.
It's like how can Path help?
Here's what we are capable of.
How can we cater this to yoursituation?
So you know that looks a lotdifferent.
That's why every country doesn'thave the same deliverables.
None of the 10 countries havethe same thing going on, like
they're all sort of creatingtheir own interventions and then

(29:28):
we're trying to support that.
So we've really tried to makeit like driven by the country
teams, like we have this pot ofmoney, we have these high level
goals, we have experience in,you know, shaping markets and,
and you know our technicalexperience in medical devices
and medical oxygen.
You know how can we use this toto help you and, and you know,
take these learnings back andthen also go help other

(29:50):
countries too.
So, um, yeah, so we do reallytry to drive it at the um, the
country level, which can lead toa lot of problems too.
Um, what do you mean?
Um, you know people ask like,what are problems that you face?
And it's like sometimes it'slike an election in a country,
you know, and x country.

They have an election.

Yeah, I know right like not need.
Besides, what's going on in ourown country right now?
But, um, you can imagine, incountries where we work, you
know, if a new president comesin, they have their own agenda,
they have their own healthagenda.
Um, they're going to beappointing their own people to
the ministry of health.
Those ministry of health peoplehave their own priorities.

(30:32):
And now you need to restartthis relationship management.
You sort of have to reintroducepaths sometimes, and sometimes
work is really paused, like wehad in Senegal, I think, three
years ago there was apresidential election or maybe
two years ago, and you know workwas really halted, like they
were doing basic treatment ofpatients.
They weren't looking to expandwork during the whole campaign

(30:53):
phase.
And then you know, when the newpresident comes in, that's like
a whole transition effort,right, just like I'm sure you
know bureaucrats in the US gothrough like understanding new
priorities and how to managethis, yeah, new agenda.
Our country teams get to dothat, and you know this can
happen like in the middle ofprojects and we already have

(31:14):
work going on.
So it's like, well, here's whatwe're already doing.
You know how can we tailor thisto your current agenda?
Um, yeah, and, and how do youquantify impact?
We've done a lot withmonitoring and evaluation, like,
how do we quantify what we'redoing?
Um, and that's only gettingbetter and better.
I mean, I I've heard Bill Gatesspeak before on, like, malaria

(31:36):
detection and you know, back inlike the 1990s and early 2000s,
when Bill Gates was justbeginning his philanthropic
adventures in global health, abig thing for him was like, we
have no data.
Like you know, we had malariaburdened by like.
If we had malaria burden bylike, if we had the right data
at the like level of the entirecountry, it's like, oh, zambia's

(31:58):
malaria burden is x, not likethe province, like the
provincial level in zambia, butlike the entire country.
And that's not super helpfulwhen you're looking to to, you
know, target malaria inventions,interventions to reduce malaria
.
So now we're at a point he'sdone a lot of, he's invested a
lot in the ihme, theinternational health metrics

(32:19):
institute yeah, I think I gotthat right, but that's based out
of udub and they do incrediblework and like, like, targeting
and getting specific data fromfrom the ground.
And now you can look at malaria, the malaria burden in zambia
by like, a kilometer bykilometer area.
It's just insane.
So it's like, how do we getbetter at that?
How do we, like, really showthe impact and show you know if

(32:41):
if numbers are going down ornumbers are going up, like if
it's working, or if it's not?

Yeah, yeah.
And I have a friend at the IHMEand he he's been working there
for a while.
Mathematician, shout out,friend of the pod.
He's been working there for awhile.
Mathematician, shout out,friend of the pod.
But you know, you spoke to alittle bit of data and I'm
curious when Path is trying todata collect, when they're
looking at a problem, trying toquantify the problem so they can
think through quantifying asolution, where do you get your
data sources from?

(33:05):
Is it government?
Is it, you know, universities?
Does Path do their own researchthrough funding?

Yeah, what does that look like?
Yeah, I mean, it's a little bitof everything.
Path does do its own research.
We're in the middle of like alike a big consumption study
right now of medical oxygen, sounderstanding you know how much
oxygen are people consuming forvarious ailments.
So that's happening right nowin three countries and I'm
really involved with that.
But a lot of money comes or,excuse me, a lot of data comes

(33:36):
from, like DHIS data, existingdata that countries have.
There's been a lot of work atthe global level, funded by the
UN, the WHO, to strengthencountries ability to detect and,
you know, house and have arepository for this data.
So a lot of it's pulling fromthose systems like DHIS.

(33:58):
We've done some work increating new systems and
supporting that.
In Tanzania they have theacronym is MEMIS and I'm
struggling right now to rememberwhat it stands for, but it's
like their own, uh, likeindicator system for tracking
various diseases and, um, it'sreally, really cool, like it's a
huge priority.

(34:18):
Health indicators is a hugepriority for countries right now
, so they might have theseexisting systems from, um, big
donations that have happened inthe past where they're they're
kind of creating their new one.
But that makes it verychallenging sometimes to work in
these environments when you arereally data blind and where
there I can say from personalexperience experiences where

(34:39):
there are really good datarepositories, like DHIS or this
MEMES, they're not counting,they're not tracking oxygen,
like we come in and we wantoxygen data and they're like you
want what you know, like likethat's not like that's the last
one yeah, exactly so it's like.
And then we we show them howimportant this is and they see
it firsthand and again we hadthis like huge, like swing in in

(35:04):
people's understanding of theimportance of oxygen after covid
and a lot of our advocacy andcommunications efforts, and now
everybody wants the data.
They want to be tracking it,you know, um, so, yeah, it's
continuing to grow, but, yeah,sometimes you can be data blind
and that can be really reallychallenging.
Um, yeah, it's like, how do youdefine and solve problems when
you just don't have don't haveany data?

yeah, and you know I'm I'm hearing you
talk about the problems you guysare dealing with and, um, you
know the goals that you have.
Like it would seem simple inconcept to say, fund someone to
build an oxygen production plantin Zambia, or you know Senegal
X country that has the need,hand it over to a local operator

(35:45):
, sell it to a local operatorand boom, you're done, problem
solved.
But tell me, tell me why it'snot that simple?
Because it can't be.

No, it's not that simple because it can't be right
.
No, it's, it's not that simple,um, I mean, first you need to
figure out where you know if theyou need to work with the
ministry first off.
You need to, like, talk to thestakeholders to see what their
needs are, figure out where theburden is, um or where this
auction is lacking.
So you need to find a site.
You need to make sure that themoney is there to get it to the
site.
If you're talking about Zambia,that's a landlocked country,

(36:17):
how do you get the massive PSAplant there?
Who are you buying it from?
You know there's a few globalgiants of medical oxygen.
How do you work out a contractwith them?
How do you get it to the site?
Who's installing it?
And then the biggest thing, likethe biggest thing that we're
facing, is who's maintainingthis system?

(36:38):
You know, like, when piecesstart to rust, like bolts fall
off, who's coming in to fix that?
Who's trained to do that?
Is it a contractual issue withthe manufacturer, like, are they
going to bring in people?
That's going to take time,that's going to be expensive to
fix it.
You know now you're talkingabout this like critical thing,
being offline for maintenanceproblems.
So how do you make sure thatthere's the biomedical engineers

(37:01):
in that country are trained toto repair this equipment and
keep it running?
And that's a huge thing.
It's like BME training.
Bmes are incredible, likethey're the backbone of these
health systems running aroundmaking sure you know equipment's
fixed and ready to go andoperating correctly, making sure
that the purity of this medicaloxygen is at the right level.

(37:23):
I think it's got to be like a96% purity.
If it's anything lower thanthat, it's not doing you any
good, or something like that.
It's like some percentage.

Yeah, I guess we're talking about
medical specific solutions, likewe have an incredibly regulated
medical space here in theStates and governments who pay
for medical care for all oftheir citizens have, incredibly,
you know, regulated andbureaucratic systems set up for
you insurance for you know,maintenance and repair, and so

(37:54):
yeah you're essentially liketrying to set up an entire
industry and system that issustainable and that is a
decades-long effort, potentiallyyeah, I mean, that's the big
thing right now.

It's like all the equipment that got like like
dumped in these places with allthis covid money, is now
breaking down and we don't havethe money to repair it.
I don't have the equipment torepair it, the spare parts to
repair it.
So it's like all thesedifferent issues coming together
.
So you say like, oh, can Idonate a PSA plan?
I'm like, well, you're going tobe donating this for the next X

(38:25):
amount of years, like the lifecycle of the product.
Like you need to keep yourwallet open for when this thing
inevitably breaks down.
Um, and like, make sure it getsrepaired.
So it's not simple.
You know, I listed like a dozendifferent inputs to this problem
.
Right, it's like how do youmake sure that countries are,
you know, ready to respond toall of them?
And it's really challenging.

(38:46):
And then you know these itwould be challenging in the us,
and I'm sure it is challengingin the?
U US to keep these thingsmaintained and repaired.
And it's even more challengingin lower resource settings,
right?
So yeah, it's a struggle.
And there's no like silver.
There's no silver bullet.
Right, it's like a whole systemlevel issue.

Yeah, what would you say?
What change have you seen overyour eight years at PATH in the
industry?

Yeah, I mean, I think a big change I mentioned
was sort of the decolonializedmovement Like that's really
affecting our funding, right,because I think a lot of donors
are like why would we give it toPATH, why don't we just give it
to people in Africa directly?
And I think that's again a veryvalid question.
That's a huge, a huge change.

(39:32):
I think, like I said, covidreally shined a spotlight on the
importance of internationalhealth, the vaccines, you know.
It exposed an entire generationto a healthcare crisis and you
know a lot of the countries thatwe work in have regular
healthcare crisis.
Crisis is going on, crises goingon, excuse me, ongoing.

(39:54):
You're saying ongoing.
Yeah, it is on top of all theseother problems, yeah yeah, all
the time, and you know there'sthings you're not even hearing
about.
You hear about ebola, likeyou're not hearing about the
mpox outbreak in the drc rightnow, or margaret marburg virus
in tanzania or just a strainedhealth system, right, um, so
these things are often happening.
Um, I think a big problem isjust um consistent funding.

(40:17):
Um, the oxygen work that we'vehad has been really disrupted by
prior to COVID, it would belike a grant for like a year, or
grant for two years, or likehere's six months worth of
funding.
Like it's hard to like reallycreate change with that.
You're sort of just likecontinuing to like kick the can
a little bit, right, and we'vebeen lucky since COVID to have a
lot of funding.

(40:37):
But now you know I'm coming atyou.
Our project ends in May of 2025, our big one, and you know
we're faced with.
We've made a lot of really bigimpact through this project
source.
You know it really built offthe COVID project.
It was in the same countriesand, yeah, we just don't have
the funding outlook right now tokeep this running.

(40:59):
So it's that's a huge problem,right, like we have, we've built
up staff in 10 countries thatwe're going to have to sort of
begin winding down, and that'sreally hard.
You know, I think we've heardfeedback from like in the DRC.
You know we have we're buildinga training center there.
So how do you train biomedicalengineers and university

(41:22):
students on oxygenadministration to patients and
to maintenance?
And we set that up and it'ssort of like well, where's the
funding to make this sustainable?
And it's like that that may,that may not happen.
You know, in Zambia we wesupport a technical working
group on oxygen that was set upduring COVID and now it's really
influential in the ministry ofhealth in Zambia.

(41:42):
It's a place where all thedifferent partners can come
together and talk about the workand and sort of divide and
conquer in a way.
And the Ministry of Health inZambia is like path needs to
keep this going, like this ishuge and our team there has had
to be like we don't have themoney to do that, you know.
So it's like it seems like justwhen we have some big impact

(42:03):
around the world, you know, thefunding comes to an end Because
these things don't happen in thespan of, you know, four years.
They're very long-terminvestments and Source our
current project which, like Isaid, is ending, really built
off the emergency response outof COVID, and so I think we're
at a pivotal time right now whenpeople are sort of like, oh,
covid's behind us.

(42:24):
You know, medical oxygen isn'ta problem anymore.
Yeah, so it's too bad.
I think just that consistentfunding is always a challenge
for NGOs like PATH.

Yeah, yeah, you spoke earlier to specific
NGOs that you partner with oryou know PATH gets support from.
You know you mentioned the WHO,the UN Obviously not breaking
news, but our most recentpresident has decided to depart
the WHO, or at least bring theUS out of the WHO.
How do you anticipate that'llimpact you and your job directly

(42:57):
or just PATH in general?

Yeah, I mean we do a lot of work with the WHO.
Path sits on a lot of technicalworking groups at the WHO.
We have a lot of overlap withthem.
We do a lot of events with them.
We have a lot of overlap withthem.
We do a lot of events with them.
If we have US government moneycoming through PATH, well, we
won't be able to work with them.
Luckily, my team has mostlyprivate money from foundations

(43:25):
and stuff so we can continue tooperate.
As far as I know, there could bepolicy changes on that, so
that's like that's sort of whatI'm thinking now that I mean
Trump did this before.
In his last term he pulled thisout of the WHO.
You know that that grinds ourwork to a halt and we provide
really life saving interventionsthrough that and outside of
PATH.
You know PEPFAR, thePresident's Emergency Plan for

(43:46):
AIDS relief that they thingsthat really create life saving
interventions for people to makesure people have prep, to make
sure HIV is under control peopleare getting tested for HIV so
it doesn't spread.
Malaria control, you know,making sure kids have food and
clean water, like theseincredible things that the US

(44:08):
has done you.
You know, with our foreign aidis also less than 1% of our
federal budget.
You know, it's, in the grandscheme of things, not a lot of
money and that 1% makes us themost giving country in the
history of the world, right, thenumber one philanthropic
country on earth.
Yeah, so I mean, I'm kind ofdoom and gloom right now because
it's really it's really astruggle and I'm seeing a lot of

(44:30):
colleagues have to put theirwork on hold.
A lot of people at USAID arebeing let go.
It's a really challenging timeand I talked about, like the
Senegalese presidential election.
You know, I've been throughTrump before a path, but this is
, this seems new and, like Isaid, it's just really
unprecedented to cut all foreignaid.

(44:51):
And I think it's just reallyunprecedented to cut all foreign
aid and I think it's a terribledecision.
I think it's, yeah, not in theus's best interest.
Um, you know and that's my ownopinion, that's not the opinion
of path I think path is alwayslooking for for ways to work
with, you know, differentadministrations and that's key
to our, our mission.
So, yeah, um, yeah, I'm sureit's, I'm sure you'll continue

(45:11):
to work with this one to try todo the best we can.

And I did see there's hope that you know
Congress, they pass a lot of thelaws that you know ultimately
lead to funding fororganizations like yours.
So, you know, hopefully theSupreme Court case or the case
that's now making its waythrough the course, will, you
know, hopefully reverse that andbring some funding back.
This next question is a littlebit more philosophical in nature

(45:35):
and, I think, just related tolike why PATH exists and you
know why it's important.
I remember going to college andI studied international
relation.
Human rights law was my focusand, you know, in the early
international relations classesyou talk about the formation of
government.
Like what is government it's?
You know, one argument is it isthe organization of violence on

(45:58):
behalf of a community.
That was one of the earlyarguments, you know, developed,
though, to something we calltoday the welfare state, which
is an argument that it is thegovernment's job to fund public
health, to care for its populaceand provide, I would say, like
a minimum standard of living.
I think the existence of PATHsuggests that.

(46:19):
You know, not every state,every government is doing that,
and I think you even look at theUS and our health care system.
What would you say to someonewho has concerns about?
You know the nature of acompany like Path, or just the
nature of you know having torely on billionaires and their
donations to fund positivepublic health outcomes.

(46:42):
What do you think about thatand what would you say to that?

Yeah, I mean, it's a, it's a big question, right,
and I think there's a lot ofdifferent schools of thought.
You know, these countries thatwe operate in they are lower
resource settings.
You know, they're landlocked.
They've had enormous, enormouswealth extracted from them and

(47:06):
their populace extracted fromthem, right, if we look at
slavery, colonialism,neocolonialism, yeah, they're
like, not in the best positionto grow their own economy and
provide for their people.
And I think that's whereorganizations like PATH step in
and USAID and the US government.

(47:27):
Right, I think, from a moreAmerican-centric perspective,
it's in our best interest to bedoing this.
It's in our best interest to beproviding aid to other
countries to help make theirpopulation healthier, to monitor

(47:49):
disease outbreaks, because ifwe're talking about health
issues, why not have Americansface it in Africa than having it
face our population in the US?
Right, like we can track andlearn from these diseases and
make Americans safer.
It also strengthens our softpower.
People want to work withAmericans.

(48:11):
They, you know, they want tohave relationships with the US
if we're doing this inpartnership with them.
So, yeah, I think, like I said,it's just in our best interest
to be doing this.
It's not a ton of money in thegrand scheme of things, to be
doing this Less than one percentof our federal budget and it

(48:32):
just has enormous impact.
You know, we're saving millionsand millions of lives around
the world, like it's that simple, by making sure that we're
eradicating malaria, that we'remaking sure that kids have
access to clean water, that HIVisn't spreading unchecked.
You know, in places wherecountries just don't have the
resources to do this and theyrely on the scientific and

(48:55):
technical expertise of Westernpowers, so naturally we need to
fill that void.
And, yeah, I think it'scritical and I think, besides
sort of an American patrioticviewpoint or the viewpoint of
countries that may just not havethe resources or the technical

(49:17):
wherewithal to do this, it's amoral question.
We do have the resources tomake sure that people aren't
dying from preventable diseases,communicable and
non-communicable, communicableand non-communicable.
Should we use those resourcesto prevent that from happening,
to prevent kids from dying ormothers from dying from

(49:38):
postpartum hemorrhaging or HIVto spread unchecked?
My viewpoint, obviously, is thatwe should and we do, and I've
dedicated my young adult life todoing this right.
Probably a salary at an NGOthat's less than I could make in
the private sector, but I thinkit's important, and I think
it's.
It's something that we have todo, that we should feel a

(50:00):
burning desire to do.
You know, you hear a lot oflike pro-life from evangelicals
and it's like this is theeasiest money to spend if you
want to be pro-life right, it'sso easy, it's, it's so
straightforward is the easiestmoney to spend if you want to be
pro-life right, um, it's soeasy, it's, it's so
straightforward.
Like you're saving lives, um,you're doing the work, you're
making the mission happen.

(50:20):
Um, and you're, you know, likeI mentioned earlier in this
discussion about decolonializinglike there's different ways of
going about it, like theredoesn't need to be strings
attached.
A lot of this can be done inpartnership.
And how do you empowercountries?
You know so that maybe we don'tneed to be spending this money
Like that'd be great, to get toa point, but I think it needs to

(50:42):
happen over time.
I don't think just cutting offall foreign aid is going to help
.
That's going to create a crisis, not a problem to be.
You know, to find a solution,for, like I said, there's a lot
of schools of thought, like Idid study or I read.
Dambisa Moyo is a Zambian womanauthor.
She wrote Dead Aid.
Her argument was to just cutall aid immediately and let low

(51:05):
income countries, low and middleincome countries figure it out.
I don't think that's the way togo.
I think that's a very damagingway to go.
I think innocent people whodon't know otherwise would be
impacted from a decision likethat, and they are being
impacted right now with theforeign aid stop.
I think there's just there'sways of doing this in
partnership and in accompanimentthat will have profound impact

(51:29):
and eventually we can sort ofstep away and these countries
will have the resources thatthey need, the technical power,
to solve these problems.
But for now we're all tied uptogether and I don't think
that's a bad thing.
I think our liberation is boundtogether and, like I said, it
also gives the US eyes in theseplaces to be tracking diseases

(51:50):
and making sure that whatthey're facing in these lower
resource settings aren't goingto come back to haunt us in the
US.

Yeah, well, I really like the point you made
about you know a lot of thesecountries facing, you know,
maybe disproportionate burden ofnegative health outcomes.
Like a lot of these countriesaren't facing that in a vacuum.
Like there are reasons why youknow there's more poverty in
Africa and it has a lot to dowith, you know, the actions of

(52:20):
several European states in youknow, over the course of several
centuries Right and even todaythere's, you know, mineral
extraction happening at theexpense of communities abroad,
not to say many other things.
But I also was struck by justthe nature of collaboration that

(52:41):
allows this work to happen.
We talked a little bit aboutthe WHO, the value that your
company personally gets fromworking with them, and it's
pretty shocking to hear nowprojects that are working with
government, federal money in theUS have to just stop and can't
continue their work.
That's upsetting.
But you know, I think we'reseeing right now in real time
the expansion of the bird flu.

(53:01):
Another couple hundred thousandbirds in Minnesota were called
just to prevent, you know, thegrowth of another great pandemic
, called just to prevent youknow, the growth of another
great pandemic.
You know from your knowledge ofworking abroad and you know
being at PATH what do you thinkthe impact of that could be just

(53:24):
here domestically?

Yeah, I'm not super optimistic right now with
the state of things.
I think a big thing is theTrump administration has kind of
put a silence on the CDC andthe NIH, so we don't have data
on these outbreaks at a federallevel, which is scary, and that
is something that you know we'vehad continuously for decades
and now we don't, and that issomething to be worried about.
But yeah, I mean it's not agreat time.

(53:49):
I mentioned, you know, we're inthe middle of flu season first
off, and flu can be very deadlyin the US, the avian flu that is
spreading.
I think I read that at thebeginning of the year there had
been three bird to humantransmissions and now we're in
the 60s.
So the disease is evolving insome way to be able to impact

(54:12):
humans more.
I think only one person hasdied and they had pre-existing
conditions, which is a good sign.
But the flu likes to evolve andspread and who knows where
we're going to be from like ahuman health standpoint, other
than just a supply chain,agricultural supply chain
problem, when we're cullinghundreds of thousands of

(54:33):
chickens a day.
You know we talk about eggprices not going down anytime
soon if this continues.
But in addition to that, kansasis facing its largest
tuberculosis outbreak in historyright now.
Oh Jesus, something else thatdidn't spread spread very
rapidly.
Yeah, oh Jesus, I didn't knowthat Spread very rapidly.
Yeah, and Mpox in the DRC islooking a little bit different

(54:56):
than it did in the US.
Like I'm a gay man, I wasvaccinated against monkeypox
when it was surging in the US.
That vaccine is the uptake isnot as high as it should be to
prevent the spread of that inthe DRC right now.
And I also mentioned Marburgvirus and I'm not saying this to

(55:17):
like scare people.
There's always been thesedisease outbreaks.
Avian flu is always boppingaround.
The problem is, if you startremoving our ability to track
the data, to report these things, to track the data, to report
these things, as you're cuttingdomestic and foreign aid, like

(55:39):
that's a ripe environment for adisease to take off and to have
no more guardrails Like that'sthat's how this happens.
What we had in place, as like aweek ago, two weeks ago were
guardrails to make sure that ifdiseases do take off, we know
how to combat them, we canmobilize really, really smart
people to combat these things,we can isolate them, we can
begin understanding the diseaseso we can vaccinate against it.

(56:02):
You know, one of the one ofTrump's biggest accomplishments
that he's now distanced himselffrom was Operation Warp Speed to
get a COVID vaccine Like thatwas incredible, and that vaccine
saved probably millions oflives Not probably.
It saved millions of lives.
And to be cutting resources tohealth agencies, to not be

(56:23):
reporting data while we'reseeing an uptake in like a
variety of different diseases,it's just.

It doesn't fill me with optimism, right now
I read shortly after theannouncement of the WHO
withdrawal that one of ourbillionaires I don't know which
one offered to pay for the US'snow foregone commitment to the
WHO, at least this year.
I don't remember specificallythe commitment he made, but what

(56:49):
do you think the chances arewe're going to need PATH here in
the United States in the nextfour years.
Like, are you guys alreadyoperating in the States, you
know, is that?
Is there private?
Yeah, Are you guys going tosave us if the government
doesn't?

I mean we don't.
We don't operate in the US.
There's been, there's been talkof that.
Right now we don't.
Our only US offices are tomanage grants and things like
that and LMICs.
But no, I don't thinkbillionaires just throwing money
around is the greatest thing,especially when it's a decision
that the Trump administrationmade to cut us off from one of

(57:29):
our biggest partners in theglobal stage, the WHO.
Yeah, I don't.
I don't think that's thesolution.
I think what's going to happenis other countries are just
going to become more influential, like we're creating a vacuum
that will be filled, likely fromChina or Russia.
You know India's.

(57:50):
India's grown a lot in the last10, 20 years.
Their economy is growing.
Indonesia there's probablyChina will take over our our you
know our contributions and havemore and more influence of the
WHO.

Yeah, earn more goodwill as we lose out.

Earn more goodwill and have just more influence,
more power, more soft power andmore goodwill um and have just
more influence, more power, moresoft power and more hard power
to steer um who decision making.
And you already sort of sawthat.
You know a big, big reason forthis is the who is sort of
fumbling the origins of covet 19because china wasn't
cooperating and china flexed itsinfluence in the who early on

(58:32):
in COVID-19.
So you know, the more influencethey get like, the more that
will happen in the future.
And yeah, it's not good.
If you are truly American,first you should want us to
strengthen the post World War IIorder, not run from it.

Yeah Well, as I'm listening and learning
from you about disease andpreventative measures, you know
the things that have beenallowing us to succeed in the
fight.
You know, one takeaway I'mhaving is this is a forever task
and project, Like we're alwaysgoing to be fighting disease,
Disease like any living thing isjust going to continue to
evolve.
So really like the best outcomeor the best preparation to

(59:09):
battle these types of issuesreally is a strong and
cooperative set of institutionsacross the globe.
Am I thinking?

through that right exactly.

No, very well said yeah, yeah, um, I want
to move on to you know kind ofthe last segment, just really
around disruption, aroundtechnical innovation and then of
like my final couple ofquestions, but with you know the
development of AI and um, youknow other kind of big, exciting
new changes that are happeningin industry.

(59:38):
You know how have disruptionsmade you guys more effective?
You know what's been maybe themost impactful positive things
to to throw disruption your way.

Yeah, I mean, I think technology has a great
ability to bring us closertogether.
You know, like I said, justeven the ability to communicate
with other people, especiallysince covet has gotten really,
really seamless.
Um, gone are the days of likeskype meetings or like grabbing
a zoom code like I can call, Ican use teams or google meet or
something to call colleaguesaround the world and have a

(01:00:10):
face-to-face with them at anytime, you know.
So I think in that way we'vegotten closer.
You know, path is still lookinginto the AI situation and what
that means for health.
I know that there's like aworking group looking into that
right now.
I don't know that I fully havean opinion on it, to be honest,
like I don't know that I thinkhealth is a unique issue to

(01:00:31):
where, like I can't like makesomebody healthier Right, like
they can, they can learn from AI, like maybe I can help them
understand how to live ahealthier life.
So that's something to consider.
But at the end of the day, it'snot going to be like I
vaccinating somebody or Icleaning a water supply or I am

(01:00:52):
making sure that, like a womanhas inhalable oxytocin on hand
to not, you know, bleed out fromchildbirth.
You know, like a lot of thesethings are human issues and
humans driving this.
And yeah, ai I'm sure can makeus more efficient, but it's
still.
How do you like resource humanbeings and get them in the room
with people?
But it's still, how do you likeresource human beings and get

(01:01:13):
them in the room with people oradvise them in a way to live a
healthier life?
So I'm sure the very smartpeople at Path will find ways to
really leverage this, and Ithink they probably already are.
That's awesome, yeah.

Michael Lane Smith (01:01:25):
Right on.
For folks who want to get intoyour line of work.
You know how do they even start.
I mean, you obviously took aroute through several admin
roles outside of the nonprofitNGO space and worked your way in
.
Through that experience, whatwould you say to recommend to
folks who want to get into?

Conner House (01:01:43):
your work?
Yeah, I mean that's a greatquestion.
I have a lot of folks reach outto me Gonzaga alums or other
people in this space.
You know, if you're willing toreally fight your way up and you
have some experience, likestarting as a program assistant
and admin, is is great.
It's a great way to to get yourfoot in the door and learn what
you really want to do at PATH.

(01:02:03):
Um, if you're interested inthis and like the longterm um
and you have the resources, likepursuing an MPH is a sure way
into PATH or like another globalhealth focused organization.
Yeah, I think those are acouple of great ways to do it.
If you have like internationalexpertise, if you have like

(01:02:25):
expertise in like a specificdisease area or like you're like
a supply chain analyst, likeconsultants can always sort of
work a path.
Um, we have a coupleconsultants that provide like
really important businessexpertise into our team.
So there's a few different waysbut I will say it's tricky,
like it's really hard.
I, right out of college, wasapplying like mad at path and I

(01:02:48):
didn't have any luck on anything, even like program assistants.
Like it really took about twoyears of me getting working
experience before I even got acall back.
Even then I had someopportunities fall through and
this was a path and the GatesFoundation.
So I think just having someexperience you know, if you're
fresh out of college like youmight need to slog through it a

(01:03:09):
little bit you know I had to,like I was having the hardest
time finding a job after collegeand I ended up like reaching
out to like my local statesenator for help and that's how
I got you know other than myinterest in politics and local
governance.
That's how I got on the Waysand Means Committee at the
Washington State Senate inOlympia and that's what really

(01:03:31):
gave me foundational, justexperience.
You know, I think a lot, of, alot of resumes are probably
tossed out just because youdon't have, you know, more than
a year or two of experience.
So I think that's thefoundation.
Getting an MPH is a little bitdifferent, right, like you're
going to build a network as anlike.
Getting an MPH, um, it can be abit of an insular community, so

(01:03:53):
you'll you'll start learning,you know, uh, people from
different nonprofits and thingslike that and networking, um,
but yeah, I think there's a fewdifferent pathways in but it is
challenging, like it's it's notthe biggest organization in the
U S 1600 people, you know, andonly like three, 400 of those
from the U?
S.

So it is pretty small.
Yeah, I had a similarexperience coming out of college
.
You know, not everyone has thejob lined up beginning of senior
year, um, although a couple ofmy previous interviews have um,
so I appreciate that perspective.
Uh, it certainly can be a slog.
Uh, last question and I'll letyou go, but you know how do you
think your job and your work atBath has changed you?

Oh man, that's a really good question.
Yeah, I mean, it's definitelygiven me new skill sets and a
lot of just expertise in thisworld.
I think it's definitely made meinto a global thinker, um, and
and how we approach theseproblems.
Um, yeah, and it's it's helpedme understand, like, how to make
impact happen.
Like change isn't somethingthat you just snap your finger

(01:04:59):
and it happens.
Like it takes a lot ofdedication, it takes people
rallying around a mission, ittakes organizational processes,
it takes money, like it takeslong-term thinking and not just
thinking in terms of, likeband-aids and stuff, right, so I
think it's given me a lot ofdepth on how to make an impact.

(01:05:22):
And now I know a bunch aboutmedical oxygen and if you would
have told me that in collegethat I'd be like school and
medical oxygen, I would havebeen like what are you talking
about?
So I don't even know that'sawesome, exactly.
So a lot of different healthareas that I've had exposure to.
That it's really cool and wedidn't get to that too much in
this interview, but like beingable to hop around to other
health areas is just superinteresting, from P5X, malaria

(01:05:44):
to to, you know, HPV vaccinesand cervical pre-cancer
screening, things like that Likeit's just all super interesting
and impactful.

So yeah, wow .
Well, thank you, connor, Ireally appreciate you taking the
time and, uh, yeah, we'll catchup soon.

Thanks, michael, it was great talking, thank you.

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Conner House - Global Health Sr. Project Manager

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