January 18, 2024 • 50 mins
Ever felt like your resume goes into a black hole, or wondered how to broach that awkward salary negotiation conversation? This episode with Tiffany Williams from PitchHR is your career GPS, plotting a route through the job market labyrinth. Tiffany's leap from healthcare administration to the helm of her own business provides a blueprint for adaptability and the power of professional networking. Together, we dissect the art of resume writing and strategic job searching, ensuring you have the tools to stand out and the know-how to navigate the nuances of workplace dynamics and financial discussions.
Are job applications and salary negotiations leaving you baffled? My own career journey, sprinkled with hurdles and triumphs, underscores the importance of mentorship and self-advocacy in these pivotal moments. Tiffany and I equip you with insider tips for aligning your skillset with job requirements, tailoring your resume to applicant tracking systems, and learning the art of asking for more in salary discussions. It's not just about what you're worth; it's about believing in that worth and conveying it effectively to potential employers.
Wrapping up our discussion, we delve into the psychological tactics of negotiation and debunk the myths of workplace loyalty that can hinder your career progression. We'll guide you through the delicate dance of work relationships and arm you with strategies for self-advocacy in the workplace. To cap off our chat, Tiffany extends a generous offer for her professional services to our listeners. This episode isn't just a conversation; it's a career workshop, complete with actionable advice that could be the turning point in your professional life.
Visit https://www.careerperspectivespod.com/ to learn more and signup for exclusive access to podcast videos!
Contact me: KMN Coaching & Consulting for Career and Leadership Services- https://www.kmncoachingconsulting.com/
Get a Free E-book How to Formally Ask Someone to be a Mentor!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Karyn Nesby (00:01):
Hey everyone, welcome to the Career
Perspectives podcast.
I'm your host, Karyn Nesby ofKMN Coaching and Consulting.
I'm here to help you navigateyour tech and design career.
I will tap into my network andleverage my 20 years of
experience in tech and designacross multiple industries and
(00:21):
bring my coaching and mentoringto you.
Hello, I'm so happy that you'reable to join me today on this
episode, and, if you recall, inmy very first episode, I
mentioned how I was going tohave Tiffany Williams of PitchHR
join me to help us discussresume writing, and I know that
(00:44):
a lot of you out there arecurrently in the job market and
trying to figure out how toimprove your resume, or maybe
you need to start or start allover and so I wanted to bring
someone that could help you out.
And so, tiffany if you alsorecall the story I mentioned on
the first episode I met Tiffanyback in 2020, when I was
(01:06):
starting KMN coaching andconsulting, and I knew at the
time that resume writing was notgoing to be part of my services
, and so I wanted to work withinmy sphere of genius, and I also
wanted to find people who cando the same, and so Tiffany was
definitely the person that Ifound and saw that she was
offering these great services,and I also took advantage of her
(01:27):
services as well.
So it's someone that I knowthat can deliver and I
definitely wanted to have her onto talk with you all.
She has done for you servicesas well as an online course that
she'll talk with us about, andthere might be even a little
surprise for my listeners if youkeep listening to the episode,
but I'll share a little bitabout her professional
(01:48):
background.
Tiffany is a resume writer and acertified HR professional in
Atlanta, Georgia so shout out tomy ATL listeners and she has
nine years of experience inmanaging talent acquisition
policy, development andcompliance, business
administration, employeerelations and employee
onboarding in technology,biotech, real estate development
(02:09):
, legal accounting andhealthcare industry.
So there is no question why Ihad to bring Tiffany on to talk
with you all today.
She has a long history inhelping people across many
industries.
Also her educational background.
So she has a PHR, which is shecertified professional and human
(02:29):
resources, and she also has amaster of studies in law, with a
concentration in business lawand compliance, and a master of
science in human resourcesadministration.
So Tiffany knows what she'stalking about.
She has worked with severalcompanies and also individuals
to leverage her knowledge andhelp them get a leg up on the
competition.
She enjoys just leveraging hernetwork.
(02:52):
She finds joy in using herskills and her professional
experiences to also help jobseekers.
So I don't want to hold you anylonger because I think that this
is going to be a really greatepisode for you all, and I want
to go ahead and introduce youall to my guest, Tiffany
Williams Hello, welcome.
So I want to welcome Tiffanyfrom Pitch HR today to career
(03:17):
perspectives and, as you mightremember, on my episode one, I
mentioned how I was going tobring Tiffany on to talk to us
more about resumes and I gave alittle short story about in 2020
, when I was starting KMNcoaching and consulting, how I
knew that resume writing was notgoing to be part of my services
(03:37):
and I had to go and search onsocial for someone who focused
on resume writing and I foundTiffany, and she also offers a
lot of different services, but Ihoned in on the resume writing.
I found Tiffany.
I thought she was very thorough, she had really great
testimonies and so really happyto have you join us today.
So welcome to careerperspectives.
Tiffany Williams (04:00):
Thank you, I'm excited to be here.
Karyn Nesby (04:02):
Yes.
So I just want to just diveright in, because I know you
have a lot of great informationto share with everybody.
So if you could just give us alittle bit about your background
and how you got started in onresume writing, because resume
writing is something that we allsometimes avoid and it's not
something that people just jumpright in to do.
So I mean, this is somethingthat's great and we're happy to
(04:26):
have people like you.
So if you want to just give usa little bit about your
background, Sure.
Tiffany Williams (04:33):
So originally I worked in I guess you would
say like, healthcareadministration and I worked for
physicians around the Atlantaarea.
I started training people whenthey joined the team.
I wanted to get into thedepartment that focused on
training and onboarding at thehospital systems.
That was almost impossible todo.
People never leave those jobs,literally, however many years
(04:54):
ago that I worked.
There is the same people inthose same positions.
They do not leave.
And from that experience oftraining and trying to help
write training manuals that weuse in the department, I was
like you know what?
This isn't working.
I have to go somewhere where itmakes sense.
And so I kind of pivoted intoHR.
I took the you know pathtowards joining an HR team that
(05:17):
was part of another healthcarefocused organization and then I
just kind of grew from there andbranched into technology.
I kind of always wrote resumesalong the way, just helping
people as I met them and theyjoined the team because I you
know I would practice with mywriting and it just kind of grew
from there.
I never had a website back then.
I didn't even advertiseanything back then, so I was
(05:39):
kind of very much worried ofthem out.
So like that movie Hitch, wherehe just kind of passed out this
random car.
That's what it was like.
And then 2020 hit and I took apay cut with my company that I
was with at the time and I waslike, all right, things are
weird.
I'm stuck at home still writingresumes and something said all
right, let's make this official.
(06:00):
And I, you know, formed theactual business, set up a
website, decided I would have tohave some sort of online
presence so people would think Iwasn't a scammer, being in the
great city of Atlanta, you knowso, and it's just kind of grown
from there and just sort oftaking that path towards being
more official and having a webpresence.
(06:21):
It helped me meet people likeyou and, you know, meet more
clients across the US, and it'sjust kind of grown from there.
Very organically and I love it,you know yeah, I mean I'm glad
that you did.
Karyn Nesby (06:34):
I'm glad we started around the same time because
you've been very beneficial forpeople that I've sent your way
and I know that you've workedacross different industries and
I think that brings a lot to thetable when there's somebody in
this profession as well.
So this year and you mentionedhow you're in tech and tech and
a lot of other industries haveexperienced just like an
overwhelming number of layoffsthis year and I know just from
(06:58):
just a short story I can tellit's like back when I started my
career and hadn't really gonethrough layoffs personally, just
also just seeing it from familyand people like that.
Growing up, I remember goinginto a workforce where people
were starting to get laid offand they had been in their jobs
for like 20, 30 years and Iremember this one lady in
(07:18):
particular.
She had not touched a resumeand I don't even know how many
years she had not been throughan interview process Because she
just continued to get promotedbased off of her performance.
And I just remember the look onher face just realizing that she
had to figure out how to getback into the world of
interviewing and resumes.
And right then I said to myselfvery early on this is something
(07:43):
that I'm going to have to stayup on, because you just have to
stay ready, not just because oflayoffs, but also for
opportunities, because thosedays are just getting promoted.
Sometimes it happens, but alsonow we have recruiters that
reach out, and so you want tostay ready.
So what are some of the advicethat you can give the job
seekers right now that might bein that position, that are
(08:04):
working on their resumes today?
Tiffany Williams (08:07):
Yes.
So the thing I think that'smost important for people in
that position now is sit down,think about what it is that you
really do and the impact thatyou've actually had.
Jot down all the metrics thatyou can think of.
If you trained eight people, ifyou trained 10 people, take it
a step further and jot down okay, I trained 10 people, but you
(08:31):
trained them on what?
I trained them on a new systemwe implemented in 2022, focused
on XYZ.
You have to think about it inthat way, because that's the way
you need to translate what yourimpact is on your actual resume
, because that's the only waypeople will care.
We don't want to know youtrained people.
We want to know okay, well,what was the result of that?
(08:51):
And think about it in the waythat everything that you do
matters, but think about thatbig picture.
So start thinking aboutyourself like if you were a
C-suite executive.
If you wanted to go brag aboutyourself, what would you want to
relate?
Do you want to say, oh, I justfill out paperwork all day?
Or do you want to say youstreamline processes and
(09:11):
minimize downtime by XYZ?
You have to really start kindof moving throughout the process
with a boost of confidence andunderstanding, first of all,
what it is that will be of valueto the other organizations.
So we're all in sales.
That's something people say.
We're all in sales.
So think about selling yourselfto someone else.
(09:32):
But also, on the opposite sideof that, think about what does a
company need to sell to you?
Because you are also thecommodity.
That's what you also have tohave in the mindset of, like
you're not thirsty for work.
We know layoffs can happen, butyou have to move about saying
okay, I have this skill set andit is valuable to someone.
(09:52):
Let me see what companies areout here that would be thinking
of that as being of value.
Right, and I always tell peopleyou can start as small of
thinking okay, what tools do Iuse at work?
I use this software.
Let's say, hypothetically youwork at the front desk at a
hospital, which is literallywhat my first real job was.
You work at the front desk,you're checking people in.
(10:13):
What software are you using?
Okay, think about who wouldvalue that software tool that
you're using.
Could you go work for thatcompany next?
Absolutely that's a possibility.
Or could you look up and seewhat other systems or what other
hospital systems I mean woulduse that tool, look that up.
So always just think bigger.
(10:34):
That's the thing.
Think bigger, don't think ofjust the minute details.
Think bigger on what youroverall impact and value is.
Karyn Nesby (10:41):
Right, it's always those adjacent I always say,
like the cousin to your jobtoday, those tools that you can
use and lean into to try to findthat next opportunity.
And what do you say about asfar as like crafting that resume
?
Because I know when we talkbefore you're saying how people
wanna use the same resume overand over again and apply to jobs
(11:04):
like what are things that theyneed to like pinpoint when
they're doing that and makingthose job applications and
hitting submit?
Tiffany Williams (11:12):
So the first thing you need to do is look at
the actual job ad that you'reapplying for.
Don't just say, okay, this isthe same job title I applied for
yesterday or this is my jobtitle.
Now I know I have theexperience boom, submit.
Don't do that because we usewhat's called an applicant
tracking system and thosesystems help hiring managers and
(11:33):
recruiters filter outapplicants.
Like when you see a job posting, just know that at minimum,
that job posting is gonna getabout 250 applications.
So what you have to do to standout is make sure that you are
focusing on the skill set thatthey're asking for.
So when you look at it, breakit up right.
Look at the job ad, readthrough it overall for
(11:55):
understanding.
But then there's gonna be asection that says preferred
qualification.
Look at that and say do I haveany of these?
Cause you know what that means.
If you have some of those,you'll be ahead of the game.
You gotta have the requirements, but if you've got some of
those preferred, then you'reeven higher than the person who
just meets the requirements.
(12:15):
You exceed the requirements.
So kind of think about it asreading in reverse and then what
you wanna do is reverseengineer your resume.
You don't have to rewrite yourresume every time you submit.
However, you should be tweakingit ever so slightly before you
apply, and there are tools outthere that will help you do that
(12:36):
.
Or you can enlist the servicesof a professional if that's not
your thing and you just wannatoss it to somebody else to do.
But that's what you have to doif you're gonna do it yourself.
Don't just say, oh, I have allthis experience, because the
reality of it is the applicanttracking system is going to
filter out about 75% of thepeople.
For us, we don't even see yourresume.
Humans not going to see it.
(12:57):
And then when a human does seeit, you need to make sure that
you're communicating quickly andclearly how you are I don't
wanna say the perfect match, buthow you are a great match for
that role and then we're onlygonna glance at it for maybe six
to 10 seconds, that's it.
And that's being generous withthe timing six to 10 seconds on
average, closer to six mosttimes, especially because of the
(13:20):
volume of applications peopleare receiving now, especially if
you work in tech.
Karyn Nesby (13:25):
Right, because I think the other thing to note is
that when you are applying andyou see, okay, this particular
job post has 200 applicants, tokeep in mind that that's not the
only place that that recruiterhas probably posted the job.
So, to your point, you reallyneed to focus in on those job
(13:46):
skills and the preferred skillsand make sure that you have
those things up to date.
So when you submit, you getthat job, you go through the
interview process and I know youhave a really great story about
just when you've been in yourrole and how to position
yourself and your own salaryjourney and your own trajectory,
(14:10):
and so I would really love foryou to share that story with the
audience here.
Tiffany Williams (14:14):
Sure.
So my journey was a fun one,right.
Like when I started trying tobuild my professional career, I
struggled in school, you know.
I took like two years off.
It was like on academicprobation at the end there and
then I said, okay, I want togive myself the best chance
possible.
So I went back to school and Ifinished, I got my bachelor's
(14:38):
and then I was working.
You know, when I was working inhealthcare roles I just kind of
was trying to make a path andmade a way.
You know, for me I thought Iwas just going to stay in
healthcare related roles because, like my mom's a nurse, my
aunt's a nurse is, it just feltright, like I actually was
interested in the industry and Icouldn't move around, I
couldn't progress and it feltlike there was a brick wall in
(15:00):
front of me.
And that's when I made thatchoice to go to HR.
And the funny thing is, when Iwent to HR I kind of made the
same salary, just a little bitmore than I did working in
healthcare.
And then I made a step up whenI got into tech.
I think that then I was makinglike 42 or so thousand.
(15:21):
And then I realized mycolleague who didn't have any
formal education, didn't have adegree in what we were doing.
She made more than me and Iloved her.
Like you know, we used to talkabout it.
We were very open with eachother.
She is of different ethnicitythan I am, so it was very
interesting to hear her path ofhow she landed there and I said,
(15:44):
well, why are we making thisdifference in salary?
Don't you love that?
I went back and got it.
I love it, girl.
So then I went and got amaster's.
So I got my master's in HR andafter completing my master's, I
still made the same thing as her.
That's the one part.
And it took my manager, who wasshe was either a director or a
(16:06):
VP at the time and was also of adifferent ethnicity.
She said, tiffany, I'm notdealing with this for you, I'm
going to fix it.
We aren't just going to watchthis, I'm going to get this
fixed for you.
And she advocated for me to getmore money.
She said you guys, you havethis person who loves working
here.
She just got her master's whileworking here with you all.
(16:27):
You've got to give her moremoney.
I had more work experience inyears than my colleague and I
had more education.
We both, you know, were greatemployees.
So then I think I finally gotto like 47 or 48.
And then we went through anacquisition.
I jumped ship.
After I'm going to say after Igot my bonus I jumped ship and I
(16:49):
switched industry.
So I left tech and I went to anaccounting firm.
They gave me 50.
I was like, ok, 50.
I used to.
In my head I was like, oh mygosh, all I need to do is make
50k.
I'm going to get a loft in thecity.
And then I realized, no, thatcan't get you nothing.
I was still living at home.
I made 50.
So I left there.
That was an interestingexperience.
I left there after a couple ofmonths, got a new job Guess how
(17:11):
much.
They paid me 50.
I was like, all right, allright.
So I went to I think I went tothe law firm.
After that, I worked at a lawfirm for a year.
I was like what can I do to getmore money Instead of just
paying me more?
They gave me a $5,000 bonus tomake me feel better.
But, guess what impacts theirbonus taxes so.
(17:33):
I still only made 50.
And they wouldn't commit topaying the 55 as my actual
salary.
So not only that, I had to payto park because I worked in
Buckhead, so my parking wasn'teven free in our very fancy
building.
Traffic sucks, in case anyonedoesn't know, in Atlanta.
So that was the second job with50, second year at 50.
(17:56):
So I left again and went to adifferent organization and
landed a better title and guesshow much?
They paid me 50.
Karyn Nesby (18:06):
Oh, my gosh.
Tiffany Williams (18:07):
That was like Am I crazy?
Is this the cap, is this it?
And I had a better title Ithink I had an HR manager title
there and they still only paidme 50.
And they justified it in someweird way where they were like
well, let's see, you know, we'veonly ever had one person in
this position.
(18:27):
50,000, I thought, was it.
Mm-hmm and I was like thisdoesn't make any sense.
I have a master's degree, Ihave the experience.
I have not just HR experiencebut other valuable experience
that I'm bringing to the table,you know.
And so I got a differentposition.
After that I went back to techand then I hit 60 and I was like
(18:49):
, baby, we made it, I got, I gotout of that 60 cap and I was
like, alright, now, being an HR,I have pretty much I don't want
to say complete visibility intothings, but usually I do,
especially when it comes tosalary, and I knew that I was
the lowest paid person in theentire Company.
(19:09):
Right, oh, wow.
But I didn't let that bother mebecause I'm like, you know,
everybody's bringing somethingdifferent to the table.
That organization, the managerthat I had at the time, who was
a C-suite executive he literally, out of his mouth, has made
statements like, well, you don'tmake the company any money.
So you know, I can't reallyjustify paying more.
(19:31):
And when I tell you I took mylaptop with me on a trip to
Greece, I was in Greece for 10days on a boat Connecting,
trying to do work because theywouldn't leave me alone.
I was in Cuba for a few days.
Cuba doesn't have Google.
First of all, he couldn'tprocess that in his mind.
I was like I'm in Cuba.
They don't allow Google there.
You can't even access it.
(19:52):
Right it was a Google partnercompany that I worked for that
went over his head.
I was like, stop calling me.
I'm roaming.
This call is costing me a tonof money, stop calling me.
But I was so committed to bethe rock star that all tech
companies say they want.
I was like, okay, this 60 feelsgood.
I finally moved out of myparents home Because you know
(20:15):
the student loan debt that Iaccumulated along the way and
still have.
So I was like, okay, I'm outthe house.
I have my little studioapartment in Buckhead.
You know, this feels prettyokay.
It was down the street from work, but that's 60.
I was like, it's saying enough.
I know what I can make.
I see it online tells me whatpeople in HR make and you know,
(20:39):
honestly, what changed life forme was we hired a consultant.
I shouldn't even say we, cuz Iain't picker.
I did not pick this woman.
This woman came in andSuggested changes that I had
suggested Multiple times overand was shot down.
Hmm, the changes that shesuggested, or that I suggested,
(21:01):
fell on deaf ears.
She came in and suggested mysame, exact ideas and they
gobbled it up.
They were like, oh, this isgreat.
I was like, excuse me, Isuggested that eight weeks ago
and I was told no, why are weapproving this now?
And I forced them to have somedifficult conversations and at
that moment, you know, I lookedat what we were paying her to
(21:22):
come in and consult.
She was getting paid $250 anhour.
Karyn Nesby (21:27):
Oh wow, to do it.
Tiffany Williams (21:28):
You already suggested to do what I already
suggested at my $60,000.
And when it came time forperformance reviews, I Was told
I wasn't good enough to get thefull 3% increase.
They tried to give me a percentand a half.
That didn't go well, to make itshort and did not go over well.
(21:53):
And to be completelytransparent, I was told I
couldn't get the full percentage.
And I said well, why?
And they said because youprocrastinated.
And I said procrastinating onwhat?
I'm here when I wake up.
I'm here till nighttime almostevery day because I enjoyed the
company so much and they gavethem an example that I took too
long to take some packages backto the Mail carrier that had
(22:16):
been returned.
These were some Christmas giftswe sent out company-wide that I
physically had to drag to mycar.
Nobody helped me.
Oh, I was told I procrastinatedwith that so that would cost me
the full 3% increase.
I've never Been so livid, but Ididn't quit immediately.
I didn't quit because I waslike I know I can surpass this
(22:39):
60, whatever that they gave me,but I'm gonna keep my paper
trail.
I'm gonna document everythingI've done and that's the key
part about this documenteverything you've done, your
wins.
Take a moment every week andwrite those wins down, because I
did that.
So you know what I turnedaround and did.
I said, okay, I keep them,keeping my list, I'm jotting it
(23:00):
down.
And one of my final straws wasone of my colleagues in sales
technically part of the salesgroup wanted to send some
handwritten cards to ourcustomers and they approached me
.
And this young lady approachedme and was like hey, your
manager said to come ask you towrite these cards.
(23:21):
And I looked at her and Ilooked at the stack of hundreds
of cards and I said I'm notdoing that.
And she's like well, he saidthat you would do it.
I said, well, no one asked meanything, I'm not doing that.
And she went and told mymanager.
My manager came and found medoing my working in conference
room, just doing my HR stuff,right, my full-time job right.
(23:43):
And he said you told her youweren't gonna do this.
I said yeah, because I'm notgoing to do it, mind you?
C-suite executive, founder ofthe company.
One of the founders.
I didn't care in that moment.
I said I'm not doing that.
I have a master's degree in HR.
So guess what I'm going to doHR.
Okay, you can get someone elseto do that, or better.
Yet why don't you have her doit?
It was her idea.
And he raised his voice andsaid I am the executive of this
(24:09):
company and I'm telling youyou're gonna do it.
I said I can raise my voicehigher than you if you want to
play that?
game.
I ain't doing it, okay.
And he told me to my face inthat conversation she can't
write these cards, even thoughit was her idea, because she's
too valuable to the company.
Her time is too valuable tospend writing cards.
(24:32):
And in that moment I closed mylaptop.
I think I just walked past him,went to my desk, grabbed the
keys and went home that day.
That wasn't the day I quit, butgrabbed my keys and that's when
it really settled in.
These people don't value me.
I'm already the lowest paidperson at the company.
I'm doing dirty work.
(24:53):
I'm saving us from being suedall the time.
I'm saving people from suingthem individually All these
things and nobody cares.
So guess what I need to do?
I need to go somewhere.
Somebody cares and I quit.
I had a new offer four dayslater.
Karyn Nesby (25:11):
Oh, wow.
Tiffany Williams (25:12):
Because one thing once you have that
confidence in yourself and youdecide you can make a shift, and
when you know how to write yourresume so that it gets the
results that you need and thetraction that you need, we're
interviewing oh, they will callyou the people I had the next
job with.
They actually ended up knowingthe people I worked for, so I
was a little nervous, but I alsoknew that there was somewhat
terrible people, or at leastthat one individual was a
(25:35):
terrible person, and I increasedmy salary by 20, it was like
almost $20,000 at that point.
Karyn Nesby (25:43):
So you went over the cliff of the 50, the 60.
And then got 20 grand plus.
Tiffany Williams (25:51):
Cause they didn't ask me flat out how much
I made.
But they sort of came up andthey were like that's all you
make.
And it was the end that I knew Iwasn't crazy.
People weren't as transparentas they are now.
So hearing these other C-suiteexecutives say to me this
doesn't make any sense.
(26:12):
Why is that?
All you were making and thatcompany was great to me, but I
did move on and I have surpassedthat.
And now I do earn six figuresbecause one that company gave me
real increases whenever it waswarranted.
It wasn't just you can only getan increase, you know, after
(26:32):
you jump over the mountain andswim across the river.
They paid me my worth.
You know, once they realizedthe value I brought to them in
the work I was putting in, theypaid me my work.
So I'm elsewhere now and I makea good way into the six figure,
and I don't think that's thelast stop for me.
You can always make more.
Karyn Nesby (26:50):
Right.
So you had really good sponsorsalong the way, advocates.
You advocated for yourself, youknew your worth, and I think
that's something that a lot oftimes, when you find yourself in
a laid off situation and you'vegone through multiple rounds of
rejection and you are trying tojust find your way back, that's
(27:14):
something that you really tryto instill in people is that
nothing has been taken awayexcept you don't have that job,
but you are who you are and youstill bring that value that you
have right.
So I think, like you weresaying, that confidence and
we'll talk about that just alittle bit later but I did wanna
talk to you about because, asyou mentioned, right now we have
(27:36):
a little bit more transparencyinto salary ranges, and so I
think that's been very helpfulfor people at least to try to
know what they're applying forand to go out there and do that.
So, outside of that, justwithin the resume building, and,
like you were saying, you'recounting your wins and you're
(27:57):
writing those things down, andthat also helps you build your
resume.
What are some of your thoughtsabout some of the newer
technology we have out there?
Now?
We have these AI tools that arealso now being leveraged to
help people with their resumebuilding.
I don't know how recruiters arefeeling about that.
I've seen some posts out therewhere recruiters are like I can
(28:18):
tell when people are using AI toanswer questions.
But I'm also like if you'regonna be biased and maybe put a
blurb up there about not usingAI because there's so many
questions people are having toanswer before they can even
submit and people are reallytrying to apply to jobs right
now and you wanna ask them50,000 questions before they can
even apply I think you have tokind of know they're gonna
(28:41):
leverage the tools that are outthere.
But as far as resume writinggoes, what do you think about
some of these new tools out here?
Tiffany Williams (28:48):
So I was originally one of those people
who the AI thing kind of freakedme out in the beginning.
I was like so somebody can justsay, write me a resume for XYZ
and it'll spit out a resume, butit doesn't know your metrics,
it doesn't know youraccomplishments.
So I've tinkered with it andI'm like don't rely on the AI.
It is absolutely a fantastictool.
(29:10):
I actually show people how toleverage one of those tools in
my course as well.
But I would never tell someoneoh yeah, just plug in, make me a
resume to be an engineer andthen turn that in.
That's gonna do nothing for you.
Like, what is that doing?
And everyone can do that.
And so the power of it is thatit can help you formulate your
(29:31):
words when you want to see ifthere's another way to say
something, or you wanna makesure you are using the proper
key words or pulling out what'smost important in the job ad.
But you never want to relysolely on it.
I equate it to like aself-driving car yeah, it sounds
cool, but until you crash likethat's not what you wanna do
(29:56):
Exactly and don't shortchangeyourself.
You can write your resume.
You just need to know how to doit.
You can write your resume, youcan update your resume.
You don't need to rely 100% ona robot to do that.
Give yourself more credit thanthat.
That's sort of my thought on it.
I think it's great to use it toyour advantage.
(30:17):
Everyone can use it to theiradvantage in their workplace.
But don't shortchange yourselfby using some generic resume.
That's not gonna get you anyresults anyway.
Karyn Nesby (30:26):
Right, be smart about it, basically, and add
your own take on it and just nothave some crafted voice.
That's not your own Cause whenyou hit those interviews,
they're gonna say okay, I knowthat this does not sound like
you.
The math's not math and thewords aren't wording.
So I think to your point.
(30:48):
Just be really smart about it.
And to that point, as far asjob boards go, and as you've
been working with your clientsacross these past few years, I
know we all know a lot of peoplego to LinkedIn and it's really
still surprising to me.
Some people are like, hey, Ijust now started my LinkedIn
profile, so I'm like that'sgreat.
I wish you would have been onlythen already.
(31:11):
But hey, no time to start likethe present.
But what are some of the otherjob boards that you feel like
people should also take a lookat?
Because, like we said, peopleare not just posting on some of
your main job boards, like theLinkedIn and Indeeds out there.
So what are some other placesthat you find your clients are
having success at?
Tiffany Williams (31:31):
So I've been directing people a lot to Ata.
I always wanna say it's Ata andnot Ota.
I think it's Ata O-T-T-A.
That one's really great becauseyou can put in the range that
you wanna be paid.
It focuses on tech industryexperience and it kind of acts
like your own job search agentand the people who run Ata.
(31:54):
They verify everything.
So there's no just a jobsitting up there for six months
Like they are.
If a person feels theirposition, they make them take it
down.
It has to.
It's super, super up to date.
The Muse is another one that Ilike to use, and the Muse is
just great because they havetons of great articles.
People talk about theirsalaries on there.
That is a resource that Ialways direct people to.
(32:15):
They also have things that willhelp you with like answering
interview questions, like reallife answering interview
questions.
Career Contessa is another oneand then, if you are interested
in like specifically workingremotely, there was one that I
used to use where we post ourpositions.
I think it was like remote workor remoteworkio, something like
(32:37):
that.
So I think those are the fourthat I tend to direct people to.
I still use LinkedIn becauseLinkedIn is great.
It can work for you whileyou're asleep.
You know I've been contactingnumerous times via LinkedIn and
interviewed and received greatoffers from just my LinkedIn
profile.
But those four if you're notusing them, start using them.
Karyn Nesby (32:57):
Yeah, so that's great and so I hope people kind
of go out there and startlooking around, and I definitely
know that I've used the Museand Career Contessa, so it's
good to know about Otta, so I'lldefinitely make sure to note
that for my clients as well.
So I know we talked a lot aboutthe job seeking side of things,
but I definitely want toutilize your expertise on
(33:19):
because you've been on all sidesof it, from the hiring manager
side, recruiting side, and soright now, with just the mass
amounts of folks out there thatare applying and I know that
recruiters are being inundatedwith messages and applications
and there's a lot of frustrationon both sides because you know
to your point the ATS systemsthat are out there that are just
(33:41):
kind of reviewing quickly andyou're getting, you know, some
of those declines and thingslike that.
It's just it's a tough marketright now.
But do you have any advice foryou know, those hiring managers
and recruiters to help make thisprocess better, just for
everyone?
Tiffany Williams (33:59):
Absolutely.
The first one is just make adecision.
That's like what drags out theprocess so much is people not
making decisions.
You're not going to ever be 100percent sure that the person
you select is the one.
But make a decision.
Interview people, schedule,reschedule quickly if something
(34:19):
comes up, communicate better,but make a decision, whether
it's to pass on someone or it'sto hire someone.
Make a decision and make itsooner than later.
It doesn't take a year to pick aperson.
Then, if you pick someone andit doesn't work out or it seems
like their skill set is notmatching with what they told you
they can do, let them go.
(34:41):
Pivot, let them go, whether youhave to just say, hey, this
isn't working.
Start including probationaryperiods if need be.
If it's a high risk role andyou don't know if the person is
going to be a match, operatewell within the law and include
a probationary period.
It could be 60 days, it couldbe 90 days, although you need to
understand it takes a personabout 18 months to actually
(35:05):
fully onboard into any role andunderstand everything when
you're coming in usually.
But if you realize there's aproblem early on, then let them
go early on and pick somebodyelse.
You just have to make decisionsand move, otherwise you risk
dragging out the process andpeople go in a glass door and
leaving you terrible reviews.
So just make choices.
Karyn Nesby (35:24):
Right.
And another thing is that youalways especially for those who
are out there looking for jobsright now, you always hear the
phrase looking for job is like afull-time job and a lot of
people can get burnt out.
It's easy to get burnt out justin the field trying to look for
jobs.
So do you have any thoughtsaround how to make your job
(35:47):
search more manageable?
Tiffany Williams (35:49):
Absolutely.
What I tell people is,especially if you've been laid
off or you've been terminated,there is that sense of urgency,
like let me just go to apply toeverything because I just need a
job.
But take a minute and writedown really what you want to do,
because otherwise you're goingto turn around and be looking
for another job two months laterand you're going to be
frustrated again.
Think about what it is that youwant to do.
(36:11):
Think about what you're willingto accept salary-wise,
job-duty-wise, and just makesure that you are focused in
your search, because job searchfatigue is real.
It's real.
So make sure you're not justthrowing to see what sticks.
Take some time if your financeswill allow you to think about
(36:35):
it and move strategically.
Karyn Nesby (36:38):
Yeah, that's great, and I think one of the things
as we're talking through this isjust Tiffany has a lot of great
advice and I just would lovefor you to kind of frame up,
like what are some of the fivehot takes that you think all job
seekers should remember asthey're going through this
process.
Tiffany Williams (36:57):
Yeah.
So you know I've got a ton ofthem, but sticking to five, I
would say the biggest thing isconfidence, and if you're not
100% confident, maybe fake it.
Okay, fake it.
I'd say always ask for more,doesn't matter what it is.
They offer you $50,000.
Ask for 60.
Ask for 70.
(37:18):
They may not give that to you.
And the way the human brainworks you ask for something, the
other person's automaticallygoing to try to give you less.
So shoot for the stars.
The worst that can happen isthey'll say no.
If they give you a little bitless, ask for more.
Pto Negotiate wherever you canAsk for a different work
schedule.
So always ask for more.
(37:38):
I'd say they're not smarterthan you, which is related to
what I just said.
The person you're talking todon't let them get you
misconstrued that you're notdoing your best and that you're
not the right person for the jobor that you don't belong there.
They're just doing theconfidence thing and they always
ask for more.
Whether it's asking for morework out of you or asking for
(37:58):
more at work, they're justasking for more and you have to
do the same.
And then one that people theyknow, but it scares them, is
there is no loyalty out here.
I have quit a job in threemonths or less.
Okay, there's no loyalty.
Wherever you interview, they'relike we want someone who's
going to stay long term, growwith us.
(38:18):
Guess what?
If they have a change in theirbusiness status.
They will let you go.
They will let you go real quick.
Someone you thought advocatedfor you or was your friend.
There's no loyalty.
So just remember that doesn'tmean go around the office.
You know, feel like a personwho thinks everyone's out to get
them, but just know in the backof your mind that there's no
loyalty.
Okay, you don't need to beloyal to them.
(38:39):
If anyone asks you to talk tothem about a position at a
different company, go ahead andtake the call.
There's no harm in taking thecall.
And then probably the lastthing I would say is the people
at work are not your friends.
I have developed long termfriendships with people from my
jobs.
However, I need you tounderstand that we're all sort
(39:02):
of here to do the same thing.
I'm here to do my job, you'rethere to do your job.
You know.
I especially always hear peopletalking about like, oh, don't
go talk to HR because they'renot your friend.
I see that online all the timeand.
I'm petty so I'll comment andsay, no, I'm not paid to be your
friend, I'm paid to do my job.
You know, and I think peopleforget that, especially when
they're in a toxic workenvironment or they get
(39:23):
frustrated, they'll run to theirwork friend to complain or to
tell them what they're going todo or that you're interviewing.
Don't do that.
Just do what you're doing andsay nothing, because you may
want that person to be yourfriend, because they understand
what's going on.
But they may have ill intent.
So you can be friendly.
It could be bubbly if you wantto.
(39:43):
Don't, like you know, take on apersona of being this mean,
cold person, but just know youcame into the job by yourself.
You're going to leave byyourself.
Everyone's, you know, naturalthing to do is to save
themselves, so just rememberthat.
Karyn Nesby (39:58):
And I was going to talk to you a little bit about
diving into the services thatyou offer and your own way that
you work with your clients, andso I've been a client of Tiffany
and so I can kind of attest tojust how she makes experience
very smooth.
It's a lot of fun because, asyou can tell, tiffany is going
(40:18):
to tell you how it is.
She's going to speak from, justtalk from the cuff, and she's
going to give you really justlike the down and dirty of what
it is and what you're not seeingand what you're not
communicating and what you needto add.
And so I think it was a reallygreat experience for me, which
is why I was like, ok, I have tomake sure that I like her in to
(40:39):
help in my other clients.
But just from your own words,what are some of the things that
you find separates yourexperience and working with your
clients and things that youenjoy working with people?
Tiffany Williams (40:50):
Yeah.
So what I'd say is so myprocess.
I try to make it as simple aspossible and as straightforward
as possible.
When you opt in for my service,you have the opportunity to
schedule a pre-console.
First of all, they're free fornow.
They may not be free towardsthe end of the year or going to
2024.
That's the difference.
Karyn Nesby (41:09):
The price is not the price.
Tiffany Williams (41:11):
There you go.
So when you sign up for aconsole, I answer all your
questions about how the processworks, what you can expect.
I try to find out what it isthat you're looking to do, and
then you book your servicethrough my website.
It's called the Facebookservice.
That's the done for you service.
You want to have your resumewritten by a professional who
has insight, like myself, soyou'll sign up for that, and
(41:35):
what I encourage people to do issend me maybe two, max three
positions that they'reinterested in, somewhat similar
positions, so I can see what itis you're targeting.
Because what I do, I don't justwrite a random resume for you.
I focus on what those roles areasking for.
I analyze the key words thatthose positions are asking for.
(41:55):
I do target your resume right,because I want to give you the
best opportunity of getting acall to interview or being
pre-screened, and that takes abalance of wordsmithing which is
what I like to call it andactually being very, very
intentional about the key wordsbeing used in your resume.
Right, because that's whattriggers you making it past that
(42:17):
75% and being in the top 25%and getting a call back, and
from there we communicate viaemail, but you do have the
option to add on live calls ifyou have questions, and then I
typically return a draft to youwithin 10 to 15 days Usually
closer to 10, just depends onthe workflow.
(42:38):
And I do tell people.
I'm very honest.
If you send me positions thatyou just told me on that console
call that you don't want to do,or there's something very
specific you said you don't wantto do and I see it in there I
will tell you I'm not writingyour resume for this.
Go back and try again, findanother one.
You just told me you don't wantto do this, and the reason for
that is I do work full time, soI balance my work with pitch,
(43:01):
with what I do full time, andalso I don't want to waste your
money.
I don't want to waste yourmoney and I don't want to waste
my time or your time.
So why are we trying to write aresume for a job you just let
out, told me you don't want todo?
I'm not going to do that.
Period.
I will make you go back to getme another one and try again.
And that's pretty much what itcomes down to.
I'm going to give you what youwant you get to review it, send
(43:22):
it back until we get you whatyou need.
So I try to make it very smooth, very straightforward and try
to get you something new.
New opportunities are out there.
You just have to get it doneright.
That's great.
Karyn Nesby (43:35):
See, I told you all .
She is going to be on point,she's not going to waste your
money.
She's like don't send me thesethings that you said you don't
want to do.
Period, I'm not going to do it.
So yeah, that's Tiffany in anutshell, and also now.
Tiffany does a lot of things,but we're going to focus on this
.
Tiffany also has an onlinecourse that has been getting
(43:57):
brave reviews If you follow heron her social channels, which
I'll add in my show notes aswell, but if you can just give
us a little bit about that andshe also has a special code for
our career perspective podcastlisteners.
Tiffany Williams (44:12):
So go ahead talk to us.
Karyn Nesby (44:14):
Yes.
Tiffany Williams (44:16):
So what I, what I've learned from writing
tons, hundreds of resumes, ispeople don't have the
fundamentals down pack.
Everyone writes resumesdifferently, but I wanted to
create a course to teach peoplethe fundamentals but also how to
.
So how to really optimize yourchances and maximize your
chances of getting a call backby leveraging some of this AI
(44:39):
technology out there, right?
So my course is only a one hourcourse.
It used to be way longer and,you know, after going through a
couple iterations, I was like no, we're making a one hour
because people's attention spansand people are busy.
So it's called winning six to10.
And it's called that becauseremember, I mentioned six to 10
seconds that's all you got.
If you're a resident lands infront of me and as being
generous, but the metrics areout there, in six to 10 seconds
(45:02):
is all you've got to reallycatch my attention and want to
call you for a pre-screen or foran interview.
So I focus on walking youthrough the entire process.
It's from top to bottom, andduring the course you actually
get to download my resumetemplate and that template comes
with my cover letter templateas well, plus my LinkedIn guide.
It's a bundle that is housedwithin the course, it's in my
(45:23):
member area, on my website,which is pitch HR dot com.
And, yes, as you mentioned,there is a code that I would
like to offer to your listeners,and it is CP 20.
And that code is good for 20%off of any of the services on my
website.
Well, that's great.
Karyn Nesby (45:42):
We appreciate it and I know that so many people
will be able to take advantageof that, and because I know that
it's going to be a great onlinecourse.
So for everybody who is alittle hesitant to jump out
there and start working on theirresume, so we have Tiffany
helping us through that process.
So one of the things that I, aswe get to kind of closing out
(46:03):
the show that I love to talk tomy guests about because, as I
always say in our intro, we'renot all about work here on the
podcast is to kind of just shareone of your best experiences of
the year, just something thatyou think is just something to
share with the audience about.
You know how you relax andunwind and just gives the people
(46:25):
some inspiration.
Tiffany Williams (46:26):
Yes, so I would say, probably, when it
comes to relaxing and unlining,travel is one thing that I love
to do.
Covid kind of ruined somethings for us for a couple of
years there, but I'm gettingback out there now.
Most recently, I went to NewYork and New Jersey.
I have a lot of family thereand that's sort of how I want to
spend my time now.
Time is so valuable.
(46:47):
I'm like I just want to spendall my time doing things that I
enjoy, and so while I'm in theNew York New Jersey area,
there's this spot that I triedout.
I actually went for New Year'sfor the first time.
They had this amazing rooftopparty.
It's called the rooftop atexchange place and you know it's
like overlooking the Hudson andall of that.
You can see the Statue ofLiberty from the rooftop, like
(47:09):
it's just.
It's got the great feels.
It's on the rooftop of a.
There's like a hotel rightthere as well, and it is.
It's just a great experience.
Every time I've been, I love itright.
Like the food is pretty good,your views are great, and I just
always meet somebodyinteresting while I'm there,
whether I'm by myself or if I'mthere with, like some of my
family.
It's just a great time.
I love it.
Oh, shout out to the rooftop.
Karyn Nesby (47:32):
I'll be back soon.
I'm like I think every time Ithink about going to New York
I'm always like where do I needto go?
So I'll definitely add that.
And for my friends in New York,I keep saying I'm coming, so
I'm coming, and so we'll have toadd that down to the list.
But I definitely want to take atime to talk about it, take a
time to say thank you, tiffany,for joining.
(47:53):
Tiffany came.
She had appointments thismorning.
She was doing things.
She's booked and busy, but shesent me a picture of her sitting
in traffic in Atlanta and thoseof you who are in Atlanta, have
family in Atlanta and thattraffic is no joke.
So Tiffany came through thetraffic to join us here at
Career Perspectives and Iappreciate you sharing your
(48:14):
experience, your knowledge.
You have such a great story andit's been really great having
someone like you to work with,and because people are just out
here trying to find jobs inthese streets we are really
trying to help advocate forpeople and Tiffany is one of
those those people who's puttingin the work.
So I really appreciate youwilling to share your
(48:35):
perspective with us today.
So thanks for coming.
Tiffany Williams (48:38):
I appreciate being here.
Thank you so much.
This is great.
You know I'll come anytime.
Karyn Nesby (48:44):
Hey everyone, I hope you enjoyed today's episode
.
I really enjoyed interviewingTiffany today.
She shared some wonderfulnuggets for us to take along
with us and talk to us aboutwhat to include in our resume.
She shared some hot takes.
She shared some really greatjob boards for us to keep in
(49:04):
mind.
She talked about confidence.
She shared her story about herown salary trajectory and the
trials and tribulations withthat, which I know can resonate
with a lot of people right now.
So I really hope that youenjoyed your experience today.
Keep in mind that she did sharea code and it is CP 20, which
(49:27):
you can use on her websiteacross all of her services and
also her online course, which isgreat, and you can find that in
the e learning section of herwebsite.
So make sure to take advantageof all of that and I hope that
you again enjoy the episode andI look forward to sharing more
career prospectus with you soon.
Hey everyone, welcome to the Career
Perspectives podcast.
I'm your host, Karyn Nesby ofKMN Coaching and Consulting.
I'm here to help you navigateyour tech and design career.
I will tap into my network andleverage my 20 years of
experience in tech and designacross multiple industries and
(00:21):
bring my coaching and mentoringto you.
Hello, I'm so happy that you'reable to join me today on this
episode, and, if you recall, inmy very first episode, I
mentioned how I was going tohave Tiffany Williams of PitchHR
join me to help us discussresume writing, and I know that
(00:44):
a lot of you out there arecurrently in the job market and
trying to figure out how toimprove your resume, or maybe
you need to start or start allover and so I wanted to bring
someone that could help you out.
And so, tiffany if you alsorecall the story I mentioned on
the first episode I met Tiffanyback in 2020, when I was
(01:06):
starting KMN coaching andconsulting, and I knew at the
time that resume writing was notgoing to be part of my services
, and so I wanted to work withinmy sphere of genius, and I also
wanted to find people who cando the same, and so Tiffany was
definitely the person that Ifound and saw that she was
offering these great services,and I also took advantage of her
(01:27):
services as well.
So it's someone that I knowthat can deliver and I
definitely wanted to have her onto talk with you all.
She has done for you servicesas well as an online course that
she'll talk with us about, andthere might be even a little
surprise for my listeners if youkeep listening to the episode,
but I'll share a little bitabout her professional
(01:48):
background.
Tiffany is a resume writer and acertified HR professional in
Atlanta, Georgia so shout out tomy ATL listeners and she has
nine years of experience inmanaging talent acquisition
policy, development andcompliance, business
administration, employeerelations and employee
onboarding in technology,biotech, real estate development
(02:09):
, legal accounting andhealthcare industry.
So there is no question why Ihad to bring Tiffany on to talk
with you all today.
She has a long history inhelping people across many
industries.
Also her educational background.
So she has a PHR, which is shecertified professional and human
(02:29):
resources, and she also has amaster of studies in law, with a
concentration in business lawand compliance, and a master of
science in human resourcesadministration.
So Tiffany knows what she'stalking about.
She has worked with severalcompanies and also individuals
to leverage her knowledge andhelp them get a leg up on the
competition.
She enjoys just leveraging hernetwork.
(02:52):
She finds joy in using herskills and her professional
experiences to also help jobseekers.
So I don't want to hold you anylonger because I think that this
is going to be a really greatepisode for you all, and I want
to go ahead and introduce youall to my guest, Tiffany
Williams Hello, welcome.
So I want to welcome Tiffanyfrom Pitch HR today to career
(03:17):
perspectives and, as you mightremember, on my episode one, I
mentioned how I was going tobring Tiffany on to talk to us
more about resumes and I gave alittle short story about in 2020
, when I was starting KMNcoaching and consulting, how I
knew that resume writing was notgoing to be part of my services
(03:37):
and I had to go and search onsocial for someone who focused
on resume writing and I foundTiffany, and she also offers a
lot of different services, but Ihoned in on the resume writing.
I found Tiffany.
I thought she was very thorough, she had really great
testimonies and so really happyto have you join us today.
So welcome to careerperspectives.
Tiffany Williams (04:00):
Thank you, I'm excited to be here.
Karyn Nesby (04:02):
Yes.
So I just want to just diveright in, because I know you
have a lot of great informationto share with everybody.
So if you could just give us alittle bit about your background
and how you got started in onresume writing, because resume
writing is something that we allsometimes avoid and it's not
something that people just jumpright in to do.
So I mean, this is somethingthat's great and we're happy to
(04:26):
have people like you.
So if you want to just give usa little bit about your
background, Sure.
Tiffany Williams (04:33):
So originally I worked in I guess you would
say like, healthcareadministration and I worked for
physicians around the Atlantaarea.
I started training people whenthey joined the team.
I wanted to get into thedepartment that focused on
training and onboarding at thehospital systems.
That was almost impossible todo.
People never leave those jobs,literally, however many years
(04:54):
ago that I worked.
There is the same people inthose same positions.
They do not leave.
And from that experience oftraining and trying to help
write training manuals that weuse in the department, I was
like you know what?
This isn't working.
I have to go somewhere where itmakes sense.
And so I kind of pivoted intoHR.
I took the you know pathtowards joining an HR team that
(05:17):
was part of another healthcarefocused organization and then I
just kind of grew from there andbranched into technology.
I kind of always wrote resumesalong the way, just helping
people as I met them and theyjoined the team because I you
know I would practice with mywriting and it just kind of grew
from there.
I never had a website back then.
I didn't even advertiseanything back then, so I was
(05:39):
kind of very much worried ofthem out.
So like that movie Hitch, wherehe just kind of passed out this
random car.
That's what it was like.
And then 2020 hit and I took apay cut with my company that I
was with at the time and I waslike, all right, things are
weird.
I'm stuck at home still writingresumes and something said all
right, let's make this official.
(06:00):
And I, you know, formed theactual business, set up a
website, decided I would have tohave some sort of online
presence so people would think Iwasn't a scammer, being in the
great city of Atlanta, you knowso, and it's just kind of grown
from there and just sort oftaking that path towards being
more official and having a webpresence.
(06:21):
It helped me meet people likeyou and, you know, meet more
clients across the US, and it'sjust kind of grown from there.
Very organically and I love it,you know yeah, I mean I'm glad
that you did.
Karyn Nesby (06:34):
I'm glad we started around the same time because
you've been very beneficial forpeople that I've sent your way
and I know that you've workedacross different industries and
I think that brings a lot to thetable when there's somebody in
this profession as well.
So this year and you mentionedhow you're in tech and tech and
a lot of other industries haveexperienced just like an
overwhelming number of layoffsthis year and I know just from
(06:58):
just a short story I can tellit's like back when I started my
career and hadn't really gonethrough layoffs personally, just
also just seeing it from familyand people like that.
Growing up, I remember goinginto a workforce where people
were starting to get laid offand they had been in their jobs
for like 20, 30 years and Iremember this one lady in
(07:18):
particular.
She had not touched a resumeand I don't even know how many
years she had not been throughan interview process Because she
just continued to get promotedbased off of her performance.
And I just remember the look onher face just realizing that she
had to figure out how to getback into the world of
interviewing and resumes.
And right then I said to myselfvery early on this is something
(07:43):
that I'm going to have to stayup on, because you just have to
stay ready, not just because oflayoffs, but also for
opportunities, because thosedays are just getting promoted.
Sometimes it happens, but alsonow we have recruiters that
reach out, and so you want tostay ready.
So what are some of the advicethat you can give the job
seekers right now that might bein that position, that are
(08:04):
working on their resumes today?
Tiffany Williams (08:07):
Yes.
So the thing I think that'smost important for people in
that position now is sit down,think about what it is that you
really do and the impact thatyou've actually had.
Jot down all the metrics thatyou can think of.
If you trained eight people, ifyou trained 10 people, take it
a step further and jot down okay, I trained 10 people, but you
(08:31):
trained them on what?
I trained them on a new systemwe implemented in 2022, focused
on XYZ.
You have to think about it inthat way, because that's the way
you need to translate what yourimpact is on your actual resume
, because that's the only waypeople will care.
We don't want to know youtrained people.
We want to know okay, well,what was the result of that?
(08:51):
And think about it in the waythat everything that you do
matters, but think about thatbig picture.
So start thinking aboutyourself like if you were a
C-suite executive.
If you wanted to go brag aboutyourself, what would you want to
relate?
Do you want to say, oh, I justfill out paperwork all day?
Or do you want to say youstreamline processes and
(09:11):
minimize downtime by XYZ?
You have to really start kindof moving throughout the process
with a boost of confidence andunderstanding, first of all,
what it is that will be of valueto the other organizations.
So we're all in sales.
That's something people say.
We're all in sales.
So think about selling yourselfto someone else.
(09:32):
But also, on the opposite sideof that, think about what does a
company need to sell to you?
Because you are also thecommodity.
That's what you also have tohave in the mindset of, like
you're not thirsty for work.
We know layoffs can happen, butyou have to move about saying
okay, I have this skill set andit is valuable to someone.
(09:52):
Let me see what companies areout here that would be thinking
of that as being of value.
Right, and I always tell peopleyou can start as small of
thinking okay, what tools do Iuse at work?
I use this software.
Let's say, hypothetically youwork at the front desk at a
hospital, which is literallywhat my first real job was.
You work at the front desk,you're checking people in.
(10:13):
What software are you using?
Okay, think about who wouldvalue that software tool that
you're using.
Could you go work for thatcompany next?
Absolutely that's a possibility.
Or could you look up and seewhat other systems or what other
hospital systems I mean woulduse that tool, look that up.
So always just think bigger.
(10:34):
That's the thing.
Think bigger, don't think ofjust the minute details.
Think bigger on what youroverall impact and value is.
Karyn Nesby (10:41):
Right, it's always those adjacent I always say,
like the cousin to your jobtoday, those tools that you can
use and lean into to try to findthat next opportunity.
And what do you say about asfar as like crafting that resume
?
Because I know when we talkbefore you're saying how people
wanna use the same resume overand over again and apply to jobs
(11:04):
like what are things that theyneed to like pinpoint when
they're doing that and makingthose job applications and
hitting submit?
Tiffany Williams (11:12):
So the first thing you need to do is look at
the actual job ad that you'reapplying for.
Don't just say, okay, this isthe same job title I applied for
yesterday or this is my jobtitle.
Now I know I have theexperience boom, submit.
Don't do that because we usewhat's called an applicant
tracking system and thosesystems help hiring managers and
(11:33):
recruiters filter outapplicants.
Like when you see a job posting, just know that at minimum,
that job posting is gonna getabout 250 applications.
So what you have to do to standout is make sure that you are
focusing on the skill set thatthey're asking for.
So when you look at it, breakit up right.
Look at the job ad, readthrough it overall for
(11:55):
understanding.
But then there's gonna be asection that says preferred
qualification.
Look at that and say do I haveany of these?
Cause you know what that means.
If you have some of those,you'll be ahead of the game.
You gotta have the requirements, but if you've got some of
those preferred, then you'reeven higher than the person who
just meets the requirements.
(12:15):
You exceed the requirements.
So kind of think about it asreading in reverse and then what
you wanna do is reverseengineer your resume.
You don't have to rewrite yourresume every time you submit.
However, you should be tweakingit ever so slightly before you
apply, and there are tools outthere that will help you do that
(12:36):
.
Or you can enlist the servicesof a professional if that's not
your thing and you just wannatoss it to somebody else to do.
But that's what you have to doif you're gonna do it yourself.
Don't just say, oh, I have allthis experience, because the
reality of it is the applicanttracking system is going to
filter out about 75% of thepeople.
For us, we don't even see yourresume.
Humans not going to see it.
(12:57):
And then when a human does seeit, you need to make sure that
you're communicating quickly andclearly how you are I don't
wanna say the perfect match, buthow you are a great match for
that role and then we're onlygonna glance at it for maybe six
to 10 seconds, that's it.
And that's being generous withthe timing six to 10 seconds on
average, closer to six mosttimes, especially because of the
(13:20):
volume of applications peopleare receiving now, especially if
you work in tech.
Karyn Nesby (13:25):
Right, because I think the other thing to note is
that when you are applying andyou see, okay, this particular
job post has 200 applicants, tokeep in mind that that's not the
only place that that recruiterhas probably posted the job.
So, to your point, you reallyneed to focus in on those job
(13:46):
skills and the preferred skillsand make sure that you have
those things up to date.
So when you submit, you getthat job, you go through the
interview process and I know youhave a really great story about
just when you've been in yourrole and how to position
yourself and your own salaryjourney and your own trajectory,
(14:10):
and so I would really love foryou to share that story with the
audience here.
Tiffany Williams (14:14):
Sure.
So my journey was a fun one,right.
Like when I started trying tobuild my professional career, I
struggled in school, you know.
I took like two years off.
It was like on academicprobation at the end there and
then I said, okay, I want togive myself the best chance
possible.
So I went back to school and Ifinished, I got my bachelor's
(14:38):
and then I was working.
You know, when I was working inhealthcare roles I just kind of
was trying to make a path andmade a way.
You know, for me I thought Iwas just going to stay in
healthcare related roles because, like my mom's a nurse, my
aunt's a nurse is, it just feltright, like I actually was
interested in the industry and Icouldn't move around, I
couldn't progress and it feltlike there was a brick wall in
(15:00):
front of me.
And that's when I made thatchoice to go to HR.
And the funny thing is, when Iwent to HR I kind of made the
same salary, just a little bitmore than I did working in
healthcare.
And then I made a step up whenI got into tech.
I think that then I was makinglike 42 or so thousand.
(15:21):
And then I realized mycolleague who didn't have any
formal education, didn't have adegree in what we were doing.
She made more than me and Iloved her.
Like you know, we used to talkabout it.
We were very open with eachother.
She is of different ethnicitythan I am, so it was very
interesting to hear her path ofhow she landed there and I said,
(15:44):
well, why are we making thisdifference in salary?
Don't you love that?
I went back and got it.
I love it, girl.
So then I went and got amaster's.
So I got my master's in HR andafter completing my master's, I
still made the same thing as her.
That's the one part.
And it took my manager, who wasshe was either a director or a
(16:06):
VP at the time and was also of adifferent ethnicity.
She said, tiffany, I'm notdealing with this for you, I'm
going to fix it.
We aren't just going to watchthis, I'm going to get this
fixed for you.
And she advocated for me to getmore money.
She said you guys, you havethis person who loves working
here.
She just got her master's whileworking here with you all.
(16:27):
You've got to give her moremoney.
I had more work experience inyears than my colleague and I
had more education.
We both, you know, were greatemployees.
So then I think I finally gotto like 47 or 48.
And then we went through anacquisition.
I jumped ship.
After I'm going to say after Igot my bonus I jumped ship and I
(16:49):
switched industry.
So I left tech and I went to anaccounting firm.
They gave me 50.
I was like, ok, 50.
I used to.
In my head I was like, oh mygosh, all I need to do is make
50k.
I'm going to get a loft in thecity.
And then I realized, no, thatcan't get you nothing.
I was still living at home.
I made 50.
So I left there.
That was an interestingexperience.
I left there after a couple ofmonths, got a new job Guess how
(17:11):
much.
They paid me 50.
I was like, all right, allright.
So I went to I think I went tothe law firm.
After that, I worked at a lawfirm for a year.
I was like what can I do to getmore money Instead of just
paying me more?
They gave me a $5,000 bonus tomake me feel better.
But, guess what impacts theirbonus taxes so.
(17:33):
I still only made 50.
And they wouldn't commit topaying the 55 as my actual
salary.
So not only that, I had to payto park because I worked in
Buckhead, so my parking wasn'teven free in our very fancy
building.
Traffic sucks, in case anyonedoesn't know, in Atlanta.
So that was the second job with50, second year at 50.
(17:56):
So I left again and went to adifferent organization and
landed a better title and guesshow much?
They paid me 50.
Karyn Nesby (18:06):
Oh, my gosh.
Tiffany Williams (18:07):
That was like Am I crazy?
Is this the cap, is this it?
And I had a better title Ithink I had an HR manager title
there and they still only paidme 50.
And they justified it in someweird way where they were like
well, let's see, you know, we'veonly ever had one person in
this position.
(18:27):
50,000, I thought, was it.
Mm-hmm and I was like thisdoesn't make any sense.
I have a master's degree, Ihave the experience.
I have not just HR experiencebut other valuable experience
that I'm bringing to the table,you know.
And so I got a differentposition.
After that I went back to techand then I hit 60 and I was like
(18:49):
, baby, we made it, I got, I gotout of that 60 cap and I was
like, alright, now, being an HR,I have pretty much I don't want
to say complete visibility intothings, but usually I do,
especially when it comes tosalary, and I knew that I was
the lowest paid person in theentire Company.
(19:09):
Right, oh, wow.
But I didn't let that bother mebecause I'm like, you know,
everybody's bringing somethingdifferent to the table.
That organization, the managerthat I had at the time, who was
a C-suite executive he literally, out of his mouth, has made
statements like, well, you don'tmake the company any money.
So you know, I can't reallyjustify paying more.
(19:31):
And when I tell you I took mylaptop with me on a trip to
Greece, I was in Greece for 10days on a boat Connecting,
trying to do work because theywouldn't leave me alone.
I was in Cuba for a few days.
Cuba doesn't have Google.
First of all, he couldn'tprocess that in his mind.
I was like I'm in Cuba.
They don't allow Google there.
You can't even access it.
(19:52):
Right it was a Google partnercompany that I worked for that
went over his head.
I was like, stop calling me.
I'm roaming.
This call is costing me a tonof money, stop calling me.
But I was so committed to bethe rock star that all tech
companies say they want.
I was like, okay, this 60 feelsgood.
I finally moved out of myparents home Because you know
(20:15):
the student loan debt that Iaccumulated along the way and
still have.
So I was like, okay, I'm outthe house.
I have my little studioapartment in Buckhead.
You know, this feels prettyokay.
It was down the street from work, but that's 60.
I was like, it's saying enough.
I know what I can make.
I see it online tells me whatpeople in HR make and you know,
(20:39):
honestly, what changed life forme was we hired a consultant.
I shouldn't even say we, cuz Iain't picker.
I did not pick this woman.
This woman came in andSuggested changes that I had
suggested Multiple times overand was shot down.
Hmm, the changes that shesuggested, or that I suggested,
(21:01):
fell on deaf ears.
She came in and suggested mysame, exact ideas and they
gobbled it up.
They were like, oh, this isgreat.
I was like, excuse me, Isuggested that eight weeks ago
and I was told no, why are weapproving this now?
And I forced them to have somedifficult conversations and at
that moment, you know, I lookedat what we were paying her to
(21:22):
come in and consult.
She was getting paid $250 anhour.
Karyn Nesby (21:27):
Oh wow, to do it.
Tiffany Williams (21:28):
You already suggested to do what I already
suggested at my $60,000.
And when it came time forperformance reviews, I Was told
I wasn't good enough to get thefull 3% increase.
They tried to give me a percentand a half.
That didn't go well, to make itshort and did not go over well.
(21:53):
And to be completelytransparent, I was told I
couldn't get the full percentage.
And I said well, why?
And they said because youprocrastinated.
And I said procrastinating onwhat?
I'm here when I wake up.
I'm here till nighttime almostevery day because I enjoyed the
company so much and they gavethem an example that I took too
long to take some packages backto the Mail carrier that had
(22:16):
been returned.
These were some Christmas giftswe sent out company-wide that I
physically had to drag to mycar.
Nobody helped me.
Oh, I was told I procrastinatedwith that so that would cost me
the full 3% increase.
I've never Been so livid, but Ididn't quit immediately.
I didn't quit because I waslike I know I can surpass this
(22:39):
60, whatever that they gave me,but I'm gonna keep my paper
trail.
I'm gonna document everythingI've done and that's the key
part about this documenteverything you've done, your
wins.
Take a moment every week andwrite those wins down, because I
did that.
So you know what I turnedaround and did.
I said, okay, I keep them,keeping my list, I'm jotting it
(23:00):
down.
And one of my final straws wasone of my colleagues in sales
technically part of the salesgroup wanted to send some
handwritten cards to ourcustomers and they approached me
.
And this young lady approachedme and was like hey, your
manager said to come ask you towrite these cards.
(23:21):
And I looked at her and Ilooked at the stack of hundreds
of cards and I said I'm notdoing that.
And she's like well, he saidthat you would do it.
I said, well, no one asked meanything, I'm not doing that.
And she went and told mymanager.
My manager came and found medoing my working in conference
room, just doing my HR stuff,right, my full-time job right.
(23:43):
And he said you told her youweren't gonna do this.
I said yeah, because I'm notgoing to do it, mind you?
C-suite executive, founder ofthe company.
One of the founders.
I didn't care in that moment.
I said I'm not doing that.
I have a master's degree in HR.
So guess what I'm going to doHR.
Okay, you can get someone elseto do that, or better.
Yet why don't you have her doit?
It was her idea.
And he raised his voice andsaid I am the executive of this
(24:09):
company and I'm telling youyou're gonna do it.
I said I can raise my voicehigher than you if you want to
play that?
game.
I ain't doing it, okay.
And he told me to my face inthat conversation she can't
write these cards, even thoughit was her idea, because she's
too valuable to the company.
Her time is too valuable tospend writing cards.
(24:32):
And in that moment I closed mylaptop.
I think I just walked past him,went to my desk, grabbed the
keys and went home that day.
That wasn't the day I quit, butgrabbed my keys and that's when
it really settled in.
These people don't value me.
I'm already the lowest paidperson at the company.
I'm doing dirty work.
(24:53):
I'm saving us from being suedall the time.
I'm saving people from suingthem individually All these
things and nobody cares.
So guess what I need to do?
I need to go somewhere.
Somebody cares and I quit.
I had a new offer four dayslater.
Karyn Nesby (25:11):
Oh, wow.
Tiffany Williams (25:12):
Because one thing once you have that
confidence in yourself and youdecide you can make a shift, and
when you know how to write yourresume so that it gets the
results that you need and thetraction that you need, we're
interviewing oh, they will callyou the people I had the next
job with.
They actually ended up knowingthe people I worked for, so I
was a little nervous, but I alsoknew that there was somewhat
terrible people, or at leastthat one individual was a
(25:35):
terrible person, and I increasedmy salary by 20, it was like
almost $20,000 at that point.
Karyn Nesby (25:43):
So you went over the cliff of the 50, the 60.
And then got 20 grand plus.
Tiffany Williams (25:51):
Cause they didn't ask me flat out how much
I made.
But they sort of came up andthey were like that's all you
make.
And it was the end that I knew Iwasn't crazy.
People weren't as transparentas they are now.
So hearing these other C-suiteexecutives say to me this
doesn't make any sense.
(26:12):
Why is that?
All you were making and thatcompany was great to me, but I
did move on and I have surpassedthat.
And now I do earn six figuresbecause one that company gave me
real increases whenever it waswarranted.
It wasn't just you can only getan increase, you know, after
(26:32):
you jump over the mountain andswim across the river.
They paid me my worth.
You know, once they realizedthe value I brought to them in
the work I was putting in, theypaid me my work.
So I'm elsewhere now and I makea good way into the six figure,
and I don't think that's thelast stop for me.
You can always make more.
Karyn Nesby (26:50):
Right.
So you had really good sponsorsalong the way, advocates.
You advocated for yourself, youknew your worth, and I think
that's something that a lot oftimes, when you find yourself in
a laid off situation and you'vegone through multiple rounds of
rejection and you are trying tojust find your way back, that's
(27:14):
something that you really tryto instill in people is that
nothing has been taken awayexcept you don't have that job,
but you are who you are and youstill bring that value that you
have right.
So I think, like you weresaying, that confidence and
we'll talk about that just alittle bit later but I did wanna
talk to you about because, asyou mentioned, right now we have
(27:36):
a little bit more transparencyinto salary ranges, and so I
think that's been very helpfulfor people at least to try to
know what they're applying forand to go out there and do that.
So, outside of that, justwithin the resume building, and,
like you were saying, you'recounting your wins and you're
(27:57):
writing those things down, andthat also helps you build your
resume.
What are some of your thoughtsabout some of the newer
technology we have out there?
Now?
We have these AI tools that arealso now being leveraged to
help people with their resumebuilding.
I don't know how recruiters arefeeling about that.
I've seen some posts out therewhere recruiters are like I can
(28:18):
tell when people are using AI toanswer questions.
But I'm also like if you'regonna be biased and maybe put a
blurb up there about not usingAI because there's so many
questions people are having toanswer before they can even
submit and people are reallytrying to apply to jobs right
now and you wanna ask them50,000 questions before they can
even apply I think you have tokind of know they're gonna
(28:41):
leverage the tools that are outthere.
But as far as resume writinggoes, what do you think about
some of these new tools out here?
Tiffany Williams (28:48):
So I was originally one of those people
who the AI thing kind of freakedme out in the beginning.
I was like so somebody can justsay, write me a resume for XYZ
and it'll spit out a resume, butit doesn't know your metrics,
it doesn't know youraccomplishments.
So I've tinkered with it andI'm like don't rely on the AI.
It is absolutely a fantastictool.
(29:10):
I actually show people how toleverage one of those tools in
my course as well.
But I would never tell someoneoh yeah, just plug in, make me a
resume to be an engineer andthen turn that in.
That's gonna do nothing for you.
Like, what is that doing?
And everyone can do that.
And so the power of it is thatit can help you formulate your
(29:31):
words when you want to see ifthere's another way to say
something, or you wanna makesure you are using the proper
key words or pulling out what'smost important in the job ad.
But you never want to relysolely on it.
I equate it to like aself-driving car yeah, it sounds
cool, but until you crash likethat's not what you wanna do
(29:56):
Exactly and don't shortchangeyourself.
You can write your resume.
You just need to know how to doit.
You can write your resume, youcan update your resume.
You don't need to rely 100% ona robot to do that.
Give yourself more credit thanthat.
That's sort of my thought on it.
I think it's great to use it toyour advantage.
(30:17):
Everyone can use it to theiradvantage in their workplace.
But don't shortchange yourselfby using some generic resume.
That's not gonna get you anyresults anyway.
Karyn Nesby (30:26):
Right, be smart about it, basically, and add
your own take on it and just nothave some crafted voice.
That's not your own Cause whenyou hit those interviews,
they're gonna say okay, I knowthat this does not sound like
you.
The math's not math and thewords aren't wording.
So I think to your point.
(30:48):
Just be really smart about it.
And to that point, as far asjob boards go, and as you've
been working with your clientsacross these past few years, I
know we all know a lot of peoplego to LinkedIn and it's really
still surprising to me.
Some people are like, hey, Ijust now started my LinkedIn
profile, so I'm like that'sgreat.
I wish you would have been onlythen already.
(31:11):
But hey, no time to start likethe present.
But what are some of the otherjob boards that you feel like
people should also take a lookat?
Because, like we said, peopleare not just posting on some of
your main job boards, like theLinkedIn and Indeeds out there.
So what are some other placesthat you find your clients are
having success at?
Tiffany Williams (31:31):
So I've been directing people a lot to Ata.
I always wanna say it's Ata andnot Ota.
I think it's Ata O-T-T-A.
That one's really great becauseyou can put in the range that
you wanna be paid.
It focuses on tech industryexperience and it kind of acts
like your own job search agentand the people who run Ata.
(31:54):
They verify everything.
So there's no just a jobsitting up there for six months
Like they are.
If a person feels theirposition, they make them take it
down.
It has to.
It's super, super up to date.
The Muse is another one that Ilike to use, and the Muse is
just great because they havetons of great articles.
People talk about theirsalaries on there.
That is a resource that Ialways direct people to.
(32:15):
They also have things that willhelp you with like answering
interview questions, like reallife answering interview
questions.
Career Contessa is another oneand then, if you are interested
in like specifically workingremotely, there was one that I
used to use where we post ourpositions.
I think it was like remote workor remoteworkio, something like
(32:37):
that.
So I think those are the fourthat I tend to direct people to.
I still use LinkedIn becauseLinkedIn is great.
It can work for you whileyou're asleep.
You know I've been contactingnumerous times via LinkedIn and
interviewed and received greatoffers from just my LinkedIn
profile.
But those four if you're notusing them, start using them.
Karyn Nesby (32:57):
Yeah, so that's great and so I hope people kind
of go out there and startlooking around, and I definitely
know that I've used the Museand Career Contessa, so it's
good to know about Otta, so I'lldefinitely make sure to note
that for my clients as well.
So I know we talked a lot aboutthe job seeking side of things,
but I definitely want toutilize your expertise on
(33:19):
because you've been on all sidesof it, from the hiring manager
side, recruiting side, and soright now, with just the mass
amounts of folks out there thatare applying and I know that
recruiters are being inundatedwith messages and applications
and there's a lot of frustrationon both sides because you know
to your point the ATS systemsthat are out there that are just
(33:41):
kind of reviewing quickly andyou're getting, you know, some
of those declines and thingslike that.
It's just it's a tough marketright now.
But do you have any advice foryou know, those hiring managers
and recruiters to help make thisprocess better, just for
everyone?
Tiffany Williams (33:59):
Absolutely.
The first one is just make adecision.
That's like what drags out theprocess so much is people not
making decisions.
You're not going to ever be 100percent sure that the person
you select is the one.
But make a decision.
Interview people, schedule,reschedule quickly if something
(34:19):
comes up, communicate better,but make a decision, whether
it's to pass on someone or it'sto hire someone.
Make a decision and make itsooner than later.
It doesn't take a year to pick aperson.
Then, if you pick someone andit doesn't work out or it seems
like their skill set is notmatching with what they told you
they can do, let them go.
(34:41):
Pivot, let them go, whether youhave to just say, hey, this
isn't working.
Start including probationaryperiods if need be.
If it's a high risk role andyou don't know if the person is
going to be a match, operatewell within the law and include
a probationary period.
It could be 60 days, it couldbe 90 days, although you need to
understand it takes a personabout 18 months to actually
(35:05):
fully onboard into any role andunderstand everything when
you're coming in usually.
But if you realize there's aproblem early on, then let them
go early on and pick somebodyelse.
You just have to make decisionsand move, otherwise you risk
dragging out the process andpeople go in a glass door and
leaving you terrible reviews.
So just make choices.
Karyn Nesby (35:24):
Right.
And another thing is that youalways especially for those who
are out there looking for jobsright now, you always hear the
phrase looking for job is like afull-time job and a lot of
people can get burnt out.
It's easy to get burnt out justin the field trying to look for
jobs.
So do you have any thoughtsaround how to make your job
(35:47):
search more manageable?
Tiffany Williams (35:49):
Absolutely.
What I tell people is,especially if you've been laid
off or you've been terminated,there is that sense of urgency,
like let me just go to apply toeverything because I just need a
job.
But take a minute and writedown really what you want to do,
because otherwise you're goingto turn around and be looking
for another job two months laterand you're going to be
frustrated again.
Think about what it is that youwant to do.
(36:11):
Think about what you're willingto accept salary-wise,
job-duty-wise, and just makesure that you are focused in
your search, because job searchfatigue is real.
It's real.
So make sure you're not justthrowing to see what sticks.
Take some time if your financeswill allow you to think about
(36:35):
it and move strategically.
Karyn Nesby (36:38):
Yeah, that's great, and I think one of the things
as we're talking through this isjust Tiffany has a lot of great
advice and I just would lovefor you to kind of frame up,
like what are some of the fivehot takes that you think all job
seekers should remember asthey're going through this
process.
Tiffany Williams (36:57):
Yeah.
So you know I've got a ton ofthem, but sticking to five, I
would say the biggest thing isconfidence, and if you're not
100% confident, maybe fake it.
Okay, fake it.
I'd say always ask for more,doesn't matter what it is.
They offer you $50,000.
Ask for 60.
Ask for 70.
(37:18):
They may not give that to you.
And the way the human brainworks you ask for something, the
other person's automaticallygoing to try to give you less.
So shoot for the stars.
The worst that can happen isthey'll say no.
If they give you a little bitless, ask for more.
Pto Negotiate wherever you canAsk for a different work
schedule.
So always ask for more.
(37:38):
I'd say they're not smarterthan you, which is related to
what I just said.
The person you're talking todon't let them get you
misconstrued that you're notdoing your best and that you're
not the right person for the jobor that you don't belong there.
They're just doing theconfidence thing and they always
ask for more.
Whether it's asking for morework out of you or asking for
(37:58):
more at work, they're justasking for more and you have to
do the same.
And then one that people theyknow, but it scares them, is
there is no loyalty out here.
I have quit a job in threemonths or less.
Okay, there's no loyalty.
Wherever you interview, they'relike we want someone who's
going to stay long term, growwith us.
(38:18):
Guess what?
If they have a change in theirbusiness status.
They will let you go.
They will let you go real quick.
Someone you thought advocatedfor you or was your friend.
There's no loyalty.
So just remember that doesn'tmean go around the office.
You know, feel like a personwho thinks everyone's out to get
them, but just know in the backof your mind that there's no
loyalty.
Okay, you don't need to beloyal to them.
(38:39):
If anyone asks you to talk tothem about a position at a
different company, go ahead andtake the call.
There's no harm in taking thecall.
And then probably the lastthing I would say is the people
at work are not your friends.
I have developed long termfriendships with people from my
jobs.
However, I need you tounderstand that we're all sort
(39:02):
of here to do the same thing.
I'm here to do my job, you'rethere to do your job.
You know.
I especially always hear peopletalking about like, oh, don't
go talk to HR because they'renot your friend.
I see that online all the timeand.
I'm petty so I'll comment andsay, no, I'm not paid to be your
friend, I'm paid to do my job.
You know, and I think peopleforget that, especially when
they're in a toxic workenvironment or they get
(39:23):
frustrated, they'll run to theirwork friend to complain or to
tell them what they're going todo or that you're interviewing.
Don't do that.
Just do what you're doing andsay nothing, because you may
want that person to be yourfriend, because they understand
what's going on.
But they may have ill intent.
So you can be friendly.
It could be bubbly if you wantto.
(39:43):
Don't, like you know, take on apersona of being this mean,
cold person, but just know youcame into the job by yourself.
You're going to leave byyourself.
Everyone's, you know, naturalthing to do is to save
themselves, so just rememberthat.
Karyn Nesby (39:58):
And I was going to talk to you a little bit about
diving into the services thatyou offer and your own way that
you work with your clients, andso I've been a client of Tiffany
and so I can kind of attest tojust how she makes experience
very smooth.
It's a lot of fun because, asyou can tell, tiffany is going
(40:18):
to tell you how it is.
She's going to speak from, justtalk from the cuff, and she's
going to give you really justlike the down and dirty of what
it is and what you're not seeingand what you're not
communicating and what you needto add.
And so I think it was a reallygreat experience for me, which
is why I was like, ok, I have tomake sure that I like her in to
(40:39):
help in my other clients.
But just from your own words,what are some of the things that
you find separates yourexperience and working with your
clients and things that youenjoy working with people?
Tiffany Williams (40:50):
Yeah.
So what I'd say is so myprocess.
I try to make it as simple aspossible and as straightforward
as possible.
When you opt in for my service,you have the opportunity to
schedule a pre-console.
First of all, they're free fornow.
They may not be free towardsthe end of the year or going to
2024.
That's the difference.
Karyn Nesby (41:09):
The price is not the price.
Tiffany Williams (41:11):
There you go.
So when you sign up for aconsole, I answer all your
questions about how the processworks, what you can expect.
I try to find out what it isthat you're looking to do, and
then you book your servicethrough my website.
It's called the Facebookservice.
That's the done for you service.
You want to have your resumewritten by a professional who
has insight, like myself, soyou'll sign up for that, and
(41:35):
what I encourage people to do issend me maybe two, max three
positions that they'reinterested in, somewhat similar
positions, so I can see what itis you're targeting.
Because what I do, I don't justwrite a random resume for you.
I focus on what those roles areasking for.
I analyze the key words thatthose positions are asking for.
(41:55):
I do target your resume right,because I want to give you the
best opportunity of getting acall to interview or being
pre-screened, and that takes abalance of wordsmithing which is
what I like to call it andactually being very, very
intentional about the key wordsbeing used in your resume.
Right, because that's whattriggers you making it past that
(42:17):
75% and being in the top 25%and getting a call back, and
from there we communicate viaemail, but you do have the
option to add on live calls ifyou have questions, and then I
typically return a draft to youwithin 10 to 15 days Usually
closer to 10, just depends onthe workflow.
(42:38):
And I do tell people.
I'm very honest.
If you send me positions thatyou just told me on that console
call that you don't want to do,or there's something very
specific you said you don't wantto do and I see it in there I
will tell you I'm not writingyour resume for this.
Go back and try again, findanother one.
You just told me you don't wantto do this, and the reason for
that is I do work full time, soI balance my work with pitch,
(43:01):
with what I do full time, andalso I don't want to waste your
money.
I don't want to waste yourmoney and I don't want to waste
my time or your time.
So why are we trying to write aresume for a job you just let
out, told me you don't want todo?
I'm not going to do that.
Period.
I will make you go back to getme another one and try again.
And that's pretty much what itcomes down to.
I'm going to give you what youwant you get to review it, send
(43:22):
it back until we get you whatyou need.
So I try to make it very smooth, very straightforward and try
to get you something new.
New opportunities are out there.
You just have to get it doneright.
That's great.
Karyn Nesby (43:35):
See, I told you all .
She is going to be on point,she's not going to waste your
money.
She's like don't send me thesethings that you said you don't
want to do.
Period, I'm not going to do it.
So yeah, that's Tiffany in anutshell, and also now.
Tiffany does a lot of things,but we're going to focus on this
.
Tiffany also has an onlinecourse that has been getting
(43:57):
brave reviews If you follow heron her social channels, which
I'll add in my show notes aswell, but if you can just give
us a little bit about that andshe also has a special code for
our career perspective podcastlisteners.
Tiffany Williams (44:12):
So go ahead talk to us.
Karyn Nesby (44:14):
Yes.
Tiffany Williams (44:16):
So what I, what I've learned from writing
tons, hundreds of resumes, ispeople don't have the
fundamentals down pack.
Everyone writes resumesdifferently, but I wanted to
create a course to teach peoplethe fundamentals but also how to
.
So how to really optimize yourchances and maximize your
chances of getting a call backby leveraging some of this AI
(44:39):
technology out there, right?
So my course is only a one hourcourse.
It used to be way longer and,you know, after going through a
couple iterations, I was like no, we're making a one hour
because people's attention spansand people are busy.
So it's called winning six to10.
And it's called that becauseremember, I mentioned six to 10
seconds that's all you got.
If you're a resident lands infront of me and as being
generous, but the metrics areout there, in six to 10 seconds
(45:02):
is all you've got to reallycatch my attention and want to
call you for a pre-screen or foran interview.
So I focus on walking youthrough the entire process.
It's from top to bottom, andduring the course you actually
get to download my resumetemplate and that template comes
with my cover letter templateas well, plus my LinkedIn guide.
It's a bundle that is housedwithin the course, it's in my
(45:23):
member area, on my website,which is pitch HR dot com.
And, yes, as you mentioned,there is a code that I would
like to offer to your listeners,and it is CP 20.
And that code is good for 20%off of any of the services on my
website.
Well, that's great.
Karyn Nesby (45:42):
We appreciate it and I know that so many people
will be able to take advantageof that, and because I know that
it's going to be a great onlinecourse.
So for everybody who is alittle hesitant to jump out
there and start working on theirresume, so we have Tiffany
helping us through that process.
So one of the things that I, aswe get to kind of closing out
(46:03):
the show that I love to talk tomy guests about because, as I
always say in our intro, we'renot all about work here on the
podcast is to kind of just shareone of your best experiences of
the year, just something thatyou think is just something to
share with the audience about.
You know how you relax andunwind and just gives the people
(46:25):
some inspiration.
Tiffany Williams (46:26):
Yes, so I would say, probably, when it
comes to relaxing and unlining,travel is one thing that I love
to do.
Covid kind of ruined somethings for us for a couple of
years there, but I'm gettingback out there now.
Most recently, I went to NewYork and New Jersey.
I have a lot of family thereand that's sort of how I want to
spend my time now.
Time is so valuable.
(46:47):
I'm like I just want to spendall my time doing things that I
enjoy, and so while I'm in theNew York New Jersey area,
there's this spot that I triedout.
I actually went for New Year'sfor the first time.
They had this amazing rooftopparty.
It's called the rooftop atexchange place and you know it's
like overlooking the Hudson andall of that.
You can see the Statue ofLiberty from the rooftop, like
(47:09):
it's just.
It's got the great feels.
It's on the rooftop of a.
There's like a hotel rightthere as well, and it is.
It's just a great experience.
Every time I've been, I love itright.
Like the food is pretty good,your views are great, and I just
always meet somebodyinteresting while I'm there,
whether I'm by myself or if I'mthere with, like some of my
family.
It's just a great time.
I love it.
Oh, shout out to the rooftop.
Karyn Nesby (47:32):
I'll be back soon.
I'm like I think every time Ithink about going to New York
I'm always like where do I needto go?
So I'll definitely add that.
And for my friends in New York,I keep saying I'm coming, so
I'm coming, and so we'll have toadd that down to the list.
But I definitely want to take atime to talk about it, take a
time to say thank you, tiffany,for joining.
(47:53):
Tiffany came.
She had appointments thismorning.
She was doing things.
She's booked and busy, but shesent me a picture of her sitting
in traffic in Atlanta and thoseof you who are in Atlanta, have
family in Atlanta and thattraffic is no joke.
So Tiffany came through thetraffic to join us here at
Career Perspectives and Iappreciate you sharing your
(48:14):
experience, your knowledge.
You have such a great story andit's been really great having
someone like you to work with,and because people are just out
here trying to find jobs inthese streets we are really
trying to help advocate forpeople and Tiffany is one of
those those people who's puttingin the work.
So I really appreciate youwilling to share your
(48:35):
perspective with us today.
So thanks for coming.
Tiffany Williams (48:38):
I appreciate being here.
Thank you so much.
This is great.
You know I'll come anytime.
Karyn Nesby (48:44):
Hey everyone, I hope you enjoyed today's episode
.
I really enjoyed interviewingTiffany today.
She shared some wonderfulnuggets for us to take along
with us and talk to us aboutwhat to include in our resume.
She shared some hot takes.
She shared some really greatjob boards for us to keep in
(49:04):
mind.
She talked about confidence.
She shared her story about herown salary trajectory and the
trials and tribulations withthat, which I know can resonate
with a lot of people right now.
So I really hope that youenjoyed your experience today.
Keep in mind that she did sharea code and it is CP 20, which
(49:27):
you can use on her websiteacross all of her services and
also her online course, which isgreat, and you can find that in
the e learning section of herwebsite.
So make sure to take advantageof all of that and I hope that
you again enjoy the episode andI look forward to sharing more
career prospectus with you soon.
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