EP6 High Tide Bevs: Reinventing Social Drinking with Cannabis-Infused Mocktails

Have you ever wished you could enjoy the social aspects of sipping a cocktail, without the after-effects of alcohol? Join me as I sit down with Shea Coakley and Josh Grab, the geniuses behind High Tide cannabis-infused mocktails, to discuss their innovative approach to enjoying beverages socially, while also embracing all the benefits of cannabis. Their mission to break down stigmas and create an atmosphere of genuine connection takes center stage as they reveal the technological advancements and creative processes that have fueled their vision.

Imagine a world where the craft beer industry mingles with the cannabis market, and apprehension is replaced with curiosity and acceptance. In this episode, we journey into this realm, touching on the evolution of cannabis regulations and the revolutionary technology of nano-emulsification. Hear how the high tide team made the conscious choice of making a margarita their flagship product, a decision rooted in its familiarity and widespread appeal. We also discuss the evolving dispensary market, and how it's echoing the transformation already witnessed in the beer, wine, and spirits sectors.
 So, sit back, pour yourself a High Tide!

www.gethightide.com

Follow them on @hightidebevs on all social media platforms

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Shay Coakley and Josh Graber, the co-founders of high
tide cannabis infused mocktails.
Shay has spent the last 14years as an entrepreneur,
creating companies that helppeople with their physical and
mental well-being.
For the majority of his career,shay was the CEO and co-founder
of Leanbox, a tech-enabled foodservice company that invented a
smart refrigerator forcorporate breakrooms, hospitals
and multi-tenant buildings.
Along the way, shay started acoffee grocery, a convention

(00:21):
business and sat on severalboards for quickly growing
startups.
Josh has spent over 20 years inall aspects of the beverage
business, including sales,marketing and field and trade.
He cut his teeth early in hiscareer at Coca-Cola and Sam
Adams.
He went on to lead growth teamsat some of the fastest growing
CPG and alcohol brands in thecountry, including Zing Zang,
crook Maker, fiji and HarpoonBrewery, just to name a few.

(00:42):
Shay Coakley and Josh Graberwelcome to Carney Saves the
World.
What's up, man?
Thanks for having us.
Thank you guys so much.
Thank you.
This product is kind of new tome because I'm in North Carolina
and we don't have kind of openlaws that a lot of other states
have, which is ridiculous,because I think North Carolina
at one point was like one of thefirst states to actually have
marijuana lands dedicated Right.

(01:02):
So for you guys, why cannabis?

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Well, hopefully it can help save the world, which
seems to be part of your mission.
So what, we're going to helpScott, save the world.
Excellent, I'll take the firstrun.
So I think you know, like a lotof companies, this was started
out of a personal passion ofmine and Josh's.
So, just by way of background,josh and I are like best buddies
.
We worked in a professionalcontext about six, seven years

(01:30):
ago.
I was releasing a cold brewcoffee company and Josh was
helping run a go-to-marketmarketing firm that we had hired
to release this cold brewcoffee company.
So another beverage venture thatwe worked on together.
That was our first time meetingand it was all the way back
about six, seven years ago wherewe started to at least sort of
plant the seeds for whateventually became high tide.

(01:52):
Many years later we had bothdiscussed how we were sort of
ridding ourselves of alcohol andcannabis was a good social
consumption, method of choice orsocial outlet of choice, and
even the idea of being able tosupplement from time to time was
appealing.
And you know, we just sort oflooked around at the market and
we said you know, drinks are howpeople socialize, right, we've

(02:15):
been trained to do this formillennia.
So the idea of smoking oringesting a gummy just isn't
really all that appealing.
So it was about six, sevenyears ago that at least the very
beginning seeds of this ideastarted to come to fruition, out
of truly just a personalpassion of ours.
Something we wanted to see inthe market which I think is
often where a lot of the bestcompanies actually come from is

(02:38):
creating a product for somethingthat you'd actually want
yourself.
But it wasn't until years laterwhere this became like a real
possibility, both for usprofessionally and from a market
standpoint.
I'm sure we're going to dig inin great detail as to the market
conditions, but I will say likeeven right now, it's still very
, very, very early days forcannabis beverage.
Six years ago it basicallywasn't even a thing.

(03:00):
You know all the things whichI'm sure we'll talk about
manufacturing, distribution,sales and marketing these things
were all just getting going atthat time, but at the end of the
day, we had a passion for whatthe end product could be.
We love the idea of peoplesitting around socially
consuming cannabis in a way thathas far less stigma than it has
in the last 20, 30, 40 years,and being able to do so in a way

(03:23):
in which you know, is similarto alcohol or caffeine or all
these other beverages that weingest for a certain effect.
Our passion for high tide isreally, at the end of the day,
not just what's in the can,which we have a lot of passion
for, but really, at the end ofthe day, what happens when
people are consuming that can.
So the ability for people tosit around and meaningfully
connect, sort of the antidote toa lot of things that have been

(03:44):
going on in the world.
Covid separate us.
Technology often separates us.
We look at, high tide is notonly a very unique beverage and
one that tastes very good, butsomething that can provide these
avenues of entertainment andsocialization that otherwise
might not exist or we can atleast aid.
That was sort of how we gotinto this, obviously a lot more
detail, but that was sort of thepassion for jumping into this

(04:05):
project and now being on theshelf about eight, nine weeks at
this point.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
Oh awesome.
It's interesting Once you havethat concept, once you get the
idea and you both start kind ofnoodling on it.
Where does the chemistry sidecommit?
It's not just you're makingfruit punch and let's go rock.
Now there's a whole industrythat is being created and you
have to hop on board.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
It's a great question , scott.
I think if you think back tolike our days at Boston beer, we
had this huge innovationpipeline that was always kind of
cranking out formulas andrecipes and like we would say,
oh, we need this new beer andall of a sudden they'd be one
there.
Looking on the sales andmarketing side, all that other
stuff about like creating theformula, how to do it, was all
new.
So coming into this venture,like I knew all the sales and

(04:48):
marketing which I had thatexperience and I thought I kind
of knew how the other stuff wasmade.
But it's all different.
So, like when you ask thequestion like how does the
chemistry come in?
Where does it come to?
It all comes down to really thesame way as making any product.
It's like a formula and wesearch far and wide.
We did an extensive search withformula people from the beer
industry, people that maderecipes, from food scientists to

(05:12):
talking about internationalflavor houses, and we worked
with them all and tried to finda really good person that would
help bring our vision to life,not just give us what's off the
shelf.
We ended up finding thisamazing team out in California
called Pilot R&D and we workedwith them hand in hand, just
like we would do at Boston beer.
We started with the lime juiceand then, from the lime juice,

(05:32):
we said, okay, we like thissweetness, not that sweetness,
and then just built upon it stepby step until we got a beverage
that we think is an amazingbeverage on itself, but it also
has cannabis and makes you veryhappy.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Some other things to dive into on that formulation
process which, by the way, waslike just incredibly fun process
for us to go through.
Amazing, like.
One of the things Josh and Ihave really loved about this is
like we're having a good timealong the way.
Like business is hard,entrepreneurship is hard, but
we're having a good time alongthe way.
It's a fun project, it's a funthing to tackle.
I would say the process offormulation and creating a great

(06:05):
tasting cannabis beverage waslike an amazingly fulfilling
process, down to every little.
Like how much salt, what kindof salt, what kind of lime, what
kind of heat level.
Like all of this process wasvery culinary and very fun.
A couple of things I'll say tothis, just in addition, are that
cannabis beverage it has totaste good.
Which cannabis?

(06:26):
It sounds obvious, right, butcannabis in and of itself can be
an interesting flavor.
Yes, right, it has its ownflavor notes.
So you have to do one of twodifferent things you either have
to work with the flavor or youhave to mask the flavor.
So it's not a very simple likeoh, I'm just going to put some
cannabis in a beverage and it'sprobably going to taste good.
There's a lot of art and scienceto this process that we

(06:49):
certainly had some serious helpalong the way.
The other thing I would sayfrom a creation standpoint I'm
sure this is something we'lltalk about and a lot of your
audience might know, but mightnot the interesting thing about
this sector at this point isthat you have to produce state
by state.
So in every state that we openup and go live, just like any

(07:10):
other cannabis beverage, youactually have to have a new
production facility in each oneof those states.
So a lot of the backgroundlegwork.
Yeah, it's interesting and thiswill change over time.
The laws are literally everyyear the laws alter and change,
so it's a constantly movingchessboard.
But a lot of the legwork thatgoes into this business is not

(07:31):
only the challenge thateverybody knows from creating a
CPG product beverage.
There's an added layer I'llcall it annoyance or challenge
that goes into this, but it'ssomething like we're really well
versed at doing.
It's creating partnerships,it's striking deals,
advantageous two-way streets ofpartnership that we're doing
again and again rinse, repeat.
So it's kind of like eventhough we formulated in

(07:54):
California, we source, likeright now we're live in
Massachusetts, we're sourcingour cannabis from Massachusetts,
producing here and have ourplans set out to when we produce
in New York or Arizona orCalifornia.
Those things are all lined upas we go.
So interesting challenges, butit makes for a fun environment.
I mean, some people wouldreally moan and groan about the

(08:15):
challenges we find it.
You know, it's the reason weget up in the morning.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, no, that's really interesting.
I had no idea and you know I'min North Carolina.
We have somewhat backwards lawsand I had actually moved to
North Carolina a little over sixyears ago and they had just
passed the cannabis law inMassachusetts and then I was
gone, so I missed all the goodstuff.
But you know, down here they'lldo the Delta A and the Delta 9s

(08:38):
and all that In some of those Ihave heard I have not partaken
in any of those in a long time.
You will get a resin.
You know that marijuanaresidiveness in some of those
gummies.
So I know what you mean whenyou're saying.
You know either mask it or gowith it and it seems like that
industry just goes with it.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
You know we're big believers in the entire market,
right?
So, like, one thing I'll saybefore I potentially say
something negative, not aboutanyone specific, but the one
thing Josh and I said from go islike we are, we're going to be,
you know, we're going to becompetitive, but we're going to
be really collaborative, right?
So in order for this market todo well, all ships truly have to
rise with the tide.
It's about adoption of cannabisbeverages in a widespread

(09:16):
fashion.
So, despite the fact that wewant to win, and we want to win
big, we're actually kind ofsitting on the sidelines
cheering for other brands whichmight not be as common.
You know, maybe similar to theearly days of craft, where it's
like there's a communityinvolved there and everybody
wants the community to do well.
I will say that, like withoutpointing out names.
I mean, there are some beveragesthat are the early beverages on

(09:38):
the market and you can tellthey didn't put a lot of thought
and care into the beverage andthey did not work with that
resin taste very effectively.
You know, it's not good becausesomeone's going to try cannabis
beverage for the first time andwe don't love the idea of them
saying like, well, okay, I justdon't like cannabis beverages
because I don't like that taste.
The truth is there are not justours.
There are great tasting cannabisbeverages out there that can

(09:59):
either work with the flavor,mask the flavor and make a
really delicious beverage.
But you know, it's just anadded challenge and I think one
of the opportunities that Joshand I see as we look for next
year, the year after and fiveyears out and so on, is working
more and more with the plantitself and actually utilizing
those flavors as opposed to justmasking them.
I mean the way our beverage isset up right now, everybody's

(10:22):
familiar with a margarita flavorand it has a strong flavor.
You know, the lime, the agave.
It's a pungent flavor and assuch it kind of just, to be
honest, just masks cannabis,like if you take a sip of high
tide, you're not tasting anycannabis really.
So that's fine.
But I think one of the thingsthat we can do as we move into
the future is think about how wecan take certain specific

(10:43):
strains of plants and make thatflavor profile come through to
the beverage, which is it's aninteresting culinary challenge,
I guess.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
Yeah, I think you know, scott, you know all.
It's very it's funny, like youjust had Jim on and we're coming
behind it.
A lot of the, a lot of thetheories and stuff that we're
using and we're thinking aboutare the same things we thought
about at Sam Adams very early on.
We worried about beer freshnessbecause we wanted to have the
consumers to have the besttasting beer possible.
When we worried but all thelong tail that was just sitting

(11:14):
on the shelf that when theconsumers tried it they said ooh
, I don't like craft beer, andthey never come back to craft
beer.
That's a fear we have withcannabis beverage, you know.
Or it's the same thing.
Like one of the things wealways hear is oh, gummies, I
can't take that.
My cousin made a batch ofbrownies and I was on the couch
for three days.
Yeah, of course that's going tohappen.
Your cousin is an idiot and youknow, like why won't you?

(11:38):
You'll eat something from himin the back of a car, but
something out of a dispenseryou're afraid of.
It's just you know there's alot of fear.
So I mean, if you think aboutthat.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
It is funny.
Like the early days of, let'ssay, before cannabis was legal,
right, and to Josh's point, whensomeone's cousin or brother in
law, whatever made thosebrownies.
Like think about thatequivalent.
Like it's the equivalent ofgoing up to a bar and ordering a
Manhattan and that might giveyou a subtle buzz or you might
be blackout for the next fivehours.

(12:07):
Like I can see why that wouldbe terrified.
Like that is a that's aterrifying prospect.
The reality is, like thecannabis market the legal
cannabis market has come such along way.
The regulations are so rigid.
The production facilities I'dalmost equate them to, you know,
medical supplies or pharma Likeit is very, very regimented on

(12:29):
how it's.
Every product is tested.
And like when you go get a hightied can on a shelf, like you
know what that effect is goingto be.
Now it might be in a variableband depending on how you
personally interact withcannabis, but you're never going
to get a can and have thatexperience where you're just
like floored for six hours.
Like that is just never goingto happen.

(12:50):
Wake up and puddle of your owndrool.
Yeah, it's just, it's not.
It's not going to be the caseanymore.
The other thing that'sinteresting to point out when we
talk about formulation andeffect and creation, when we
think about like, why cannabisbeverage is like what, why now
and why not 10 years ago, or youknow, there's some of these
variables are simply just marketlegalization, right, so that's

(13:13):
simple.
It's new States opening up.
But the other one that's reallyinteresting, that became a big
thing for Josh and I, even sixyears ago, when we first started
looking at this market.
It was four years ago.
I got a correct.
That was four years ago.
I'm so bad with timelines.
Four years ago it was a monthago.
We launched your cold brewcoffee.

Speaker 3 (13:32):
Oh my God, four years to the date we launched our
high tide, basically.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
Oh good, oh, okay, yeah, okay, four years ago.
We've been friends for half amonth.
Okay, so four years ago.
So actually that's even moreinteresting because it wasn't as
long ago.
When we were looking at thisfour years ago, when you looked
at the market and what wasavailable in terms of technology
for cannabis beverages, therewas a very interesting

(13:56):
differentiation between what wasthen and what is now, and it
could be the critical piece, andI'll lay it out.
Essentially, when you had acannabis beverage, let's say,
five, 10 years ago which thereweren't many, but they existed
you took that and it was similarto taking a traditional edible
product, meaning you consumed itsomewhere around an hour later

(14:17):
you felt effect.
That effect would stay with youfor like three hours, and one of
the education pieces that we'reon a sort of tie rate on now is
that there has been newtechnology that we utilize that
has been created over the pastthree, four, five years or
brought to market over the lastthree years.
That is called nanoemulsification, which basically

(14:38):
all that means is micro, micro.
Sorry, you're not supposed tosay nano, micro.
The way that that works is thathits you in terms of effect
within five minutes five, 10minutes and it's pretty much out
of your system consistentlywithin an hour, hour and a half.
So that takes the beverageformat from being what we would

(14:59):
think to be actually relativelyuseless to completely useful.
No one wants to go out andsocialize with a beverage that
they have to, and then it allhits them an hour and a half
later.
It doesn't make a lot of sense,so yeah, so just an interesting
update and, just like it's, justan illustration of how quickly
this market is moving, howquickly it changes, and that's
just one example of many thatare going on right now, and I

(15:21):
apologize if we're both looklike we're sweating.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
The air condition in our office is broken, startup
lifestyle, so we're sweating itout in the heat here in July,
but yeah, it's not the hot seatyou're putting us on, you know
send help.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
I've got the good questions.
They're freaking out, look atthis.
How did you decide to go withthe margaritas?

Speaker 2 (15:40):
Okay, we hired a big research firm out of Palo Alto,
I believe we.
It was like a $6 millioncontract.
They did an extent.
Wait, no, no, just Google.
Most popular cocktails in theUnited States.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
Like, yes, so honestly.
So that was the deciding factor, Like we wanted to have
something.
The goal of this in high tideis to make, as she said, make
cannabis more sociable, allowpeople to socialize with
cannabis.
Well, to get somebody to theirbackyard drinking something that
was once illegal from neverusing it, there's a lot of steps

(16:17):
in there.
Okay, we really looked at everystep of the process to get the
cannabis to somebody's backyard.
So we want to imagine yourhouse.
How are we going to do it there?
Going into the shop is difficult.
It's in a different store.
Usually it's in a differentpart of the market.
When you walk into that store,it is overwhelming.
Now, when you come back up hereand to Boston, we'll go tour a

(16:38):
couple stores and you'll be likehold, yeah, you mind what
people want, Absolutely yeah.
So you know, okay.
So we thought of the shopperand we said, okay, you go in,
you're overwhelmed.
What are they going to know?
So we wanted to make a productthat was very recognizable, very
easy to identify, very familiar, and then we looked at what was
out there.
And then we looked at what wasin the alcohol market doing
really well, and if you've beenfollowing the alcohol market.

(17:00):
It's RTDs, it's seltzers, it'syou know, all these new flavor
forward beverages.
We said, okay, let's go afterthe cocktail run.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
And specifically on the margarita.
Like one of the things wealways say it's often because it
is so true about the margaritanot only it's the most popular
cocktail in the United States,but there's a weird thing about
margarita and that it's like soubiquitous and so at home in any
area.
And what I mean by thatspecifically is is you could
find a high end margarita at theSoho house in New York City, at

(17:32):
like some fancy party.
You could also find a margaritaat home at like a chain
restaurant in some flyover statesomewhere for on sale for $3.99
or $2.99.
Like the margarita has thisweird appeal across age ranges,
across socio economic climates.
Like it's just this universallyloved beverage that stands for

(17:54):
something, and for us it standsfor.
Like this is a time to put ourshoulders down.
It's a time to relax andsocialize and connect
meaningfully.
So to Josh's point like wewanted to take this familiar
thing that everybody knows theyknow what they're getting into
when they think of the flavorprofile of a margarita and we
wanted to use that to introducesomething that may be new to

(18:14):
them.
You don't want to takesomething that's totally new and
add a whole new avenue on topof that and just make it a
really confusing process forthem.
We want to say hey, this isfamiliar, you know what a
margarita is like to drink, andthe intention is that the amount
of cannabis in that is roughlyequivalent to, say, the effect
of having one margarita at arestaurant.
I think the margarita becomes aquint, essential cocktail to

(18:36):
win in this space because it isso universally loved already.
And in looking around andsaying no one's doing a
margarita yet in the space, it'stotally green space, no pun
intended.
Why don't we focus on that?

Speaker 3 (18:50):
No, it really come.
It really came down to likesomething that is approachable,
people understand.
In our portfolio is very simple.
It's a classic margarita, awatermelon margarita, and then,
for the little more adventurous,a spicy diablo, and it all
comes back to.
We just wanted to make itsimple.
We wanted to get cannabis intopeople's lives, we wanted to get
them socializing, and one thingwe always say is we bring

(19:12):
cannabis to life, and it's notthe idea of like just bringing
cannabis to where life is, tothe backyard barbecues, to the
poolside, to the beach, but it'salso like allowing people in
the long run to understand likethis is a plant that has
multiple different flavors andmultiple different styles.
You know we've worked with liveresin to understand like okay,

(19:33):
if we put actual live resin intothe product, can it stay stable
, can the flavor profile workwell with the other things?
And you know we're gettingthere.
It's just if there's a lot ofR&D between the amazing drink we
have now and you know how wecan grow this so consumers can
really understand all differentvarieties of this product.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
It's very rare to.
I would say like, broadlyspeaking, it's very rare that
you tell someone about amargarita and they're like
offended by that flavor profile.
You know, it's like margaritais just, it's just the it's so
popular because it's justfreaking good.
Yeah, like, at the end of theday, it's just a great effort,
right.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
It's universally loved.
I think the stat is 92% ofAmericans love margaritas and 8%
.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
That's crazy.
Like what other beverage couldyou say that?
I mean it's not.
You know it's.
We're not putting in Clamatojuice yet.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
I would stick with Clamato, all right, so I have a
nonactive version, correct?
This is what you you sent me.
Yeah, I will crack it open.
And what's one of you trying?
I have a classic margarita,okay.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
That's a good first one to go with the classic as
you're tasting that.
So so, like when we looked atcreating this beverage, like as
we talked about, we wanted tomake this like a culinary flavor
journey.
So it's not, you know, it's notjust like a one hit wonder.
So when you're tasting that,and for anyone in the audience
who gets access to it at somepoint, you're going to get a

(20:52):
nice key lime up front.
You're going to get somerosemary salt, you're going to
get a little bit of a gavel.
So in each one of the SKUs,you're going to go on like a
little bit of a flavor journey,as cheesy as that sounds, but it
is meant to be like a really, areally culinary craft cocktail.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
There's definitely levels to it, like in layers,
definitely layers that you weretalking about.
The rosemary salt is reallyinteresting.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
Yeah, the rosemary salt paired with a little.
We use some tequila flavoringto actually mimic the flavoring
of tequila.
We use spices to get to that itreally really pairs well with
it.
We have friends that are usinglike salt rimmers and that it
really comes out really well.
But right out of the can, thatclassic margarita is a perfect
margarita and it's supposed toreally mimic a fresh margarita

(21:35):
you get at home.
Not too sweet, very easy, verybalanced palate.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
That is like a big difference too, though.
You know, like even juststopping on that point Like
within margarita, despite beingso universally loved, like there
are definitely different levelsof margarita.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Right.
So like, yeah, sometimes youcan go get that margarita and it
really just tastes like sweetlime juice, Like it's
overwhelming on the sweetnessand it just doesn't taste high
quality, and then you can go tolike a craft cocktail bar where
they're making like a fresh lime.
Like we wanted it to be more inthat direction and I think it
came out well and we put a lotof care into the ingredients.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah, I know it's definitely.
There's definitely a nice level, is almost like it's a good
onion.
I thought it was alsointeresting that you guys did
resealable tops.
Why did you decide to go thatway?

Speaker 3 (22:18):
Yeah.
So those are industry regulated.
You need to have a child safecalf on it.
Okay, we use those.
It's a company out of Germany,it's called XO.
They developed this great cap.
It's actually resealable, andwhat a lot of consumers say is
they like it for its resealableOne.
Our product is not carbonated,it's a that's something that a
lot of people think.
Oh, why isn't carbonated comesout of a can.

(22:38):
It's not carbonated because,margaritas, that when you make
them they're not carbonated.
So the nice thing about ours ifyou're a new user, you can pour
half the can into a glass,drink two and a half milligrams
and be on your way Right.
So there's you know.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
The resealable cap lends a lot of versatility to
the product and that, again,that's one of those things you
know for the audience and foryourself, like, as you know,
we're in the cannabis business,so we kind of understand this,
but it might not be known to abroader audience is the fact
that, like this is again one ofthose sort of state to state
things.
So there are actually somestates like New York's coming on

(23:11):
, live, you don't need a childsafe cap on those products In
Massachusetts you do of whichthere are a number of different
options.
We decided to go with thisparticular cap, to Josh's point,
because it just happens to havethat added benefit of being a
resealable, which for ourbeverage, for other beverages
maybe if it had a seltzercomponent to it it'd be a little
bit useless, like you'reprobably not going to drink a

(23:31):
flat seltzer like later on, butsomeone could very definitely
take, you know, half a, can putit in the fridge, have the next
half tomorrow night, and it'sgoing to be totally fine and
resealable, which is nice.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
How are they sold?
Are they sold like four packsor singles, or so they're?

Speaker 3 (23:45):
sold as you can buy them as singles.
A lot of the dispensaries areoffering multi-pack deals, so,
for example, four packs and sixpacks.
We just ran our first ever 12pack.
I believe we were one of thefirst cannabis 12 pack
promotions out there.
We ran that at a couple storesand it went well over the whole
thing.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Oh yeah, I can imagine.
Yeah, that's the interestingthing.
I mean I'm dying to get homeand check out the whole like
dispensary business.
I mean we were not there whenit happened and it's got to be
so interesting.
You would love it.
Yeah, so for those folks thatare listening that aren't
familiar with it and Josh, oneof your well, actually it was
both of you but I checked outone of your Instagram stories
where you went into one of thedispensaries.
What is that process like?

(24:25):
Anybody can walk in and just dotheir thing.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yeah, I mean anybody who's in Massachusetts, anyone
who's 21 and older, with a legalID, I believe, from any state
in the country, can just walk in.
These stores are set up for theshopper.
They're not like liquor storeswhere you have to go in and know
what you're looking for.
Maybe you'll talk to somebody.
These stores in thedispensaries spend a lot of time
the good ones in reallywelcoming the consumers, having

(24:51):
somebody up there that is justto answer questions.
Sometimes they can look aroundthe stores and they do a lot
with visual merchandising.
It's very similar to almostlike the beauty industry, where
it's very curated, imagery onthe stores, very appealing, and
they also have the they call itbud tenders the bud tenders
actually in front of the counter, like talking to the people.

(25:12):
So it's a very, very goodexperience.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah, and here's the so.
Yes, in Massachusetts let'stalk Massachusetts specifically
there is a medical market whichyou get a card for, sort of the
benefit of that.
Nowadays you can get higherdosages.
You don't pay the taxes on it,so there are some benefits still
.
So some people still have amedical card.
In addition to that, you havethe traditional recreational
market which, as long as you're21, you can go in there For the

(25:37):
amount.
We talk about the consumer andthe overwhelming experience that
it can be.
The reality is like these shopsare really set up to make it
very pleasant.
So if you're someone who doesnot know a single thing about
cannabis, you can very easily gointo the store and have a
comfortable experience.
The bud tenders like theirtraining, is specifically for
being able to sit down and saywhat are you utilizing this for?

(25:59):
Is it for sleep, is it forsocialization?
Is it for, maybe, back in kneepain, like I mean, you can get
real specific and they will betrained to tell you what product
makes sense, what dose makessense, like all that kind of
stuff.
They make the experience verycomfortable.
But the other thing I'd sayabout the that's interesting
about the market now is it'sgoing through what we would

(26:20):
consider to be a major evolution, and that evolution is a change
from like early days to moreformalized business, and that's
coming out in a very, veryspecific way.
The way that that's coming outis back in the day, in let's
just take Massachusetts, but youcould say this in Colorado,
california, any of the marketsBack in the day if you got a

(26:40):
license and you opened up, youwere going to get revenue.
That was it.
All you had to do was beoperating, because it's a
challenge even to get up in thatspace.
In the early days, it was justlike if you could find a legal
dispensary, that was a win.
Maybe there was only 10, 20, 30in the state and they're going
to get the revenue.
The interesting thing that'shappening in this space as it

(27:02):
formalizes and more dispensariesare coming online, it's coming
down to traditional business.
Are you a good dispensary?
Do you have great stock?
Are your bud tenders very goodwith dealing with people?
How do you take care of yourloyal customers?
Traditional business we arejust now seeing that transition

(27:22):
from like hey, you get a license, you're going to sell product,
to now, within municipalitiesand towns, there's competition.

Speaker 3 (27:30):
Three stores and one in town, right near us.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
So this was a place that had one store and if you
wanted cannabis in that area,that's where you went.
Now there's three options, sothen it transitions to what
store has the best experience,the best price, the best stock,
and that we're just seeing thattransition occur.
It's already happened inColorado, already happened in
California, we're just nowseeing this happen in
Massachusetts, where it'sbecoming it's table stakes to be

(27:58):
a good business operator.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
So can you sell directly to the dispensary.

Speaker 3 (28:02):
Yeah, so it's very similar to like the independent
market in beer, wine and spirits.
We go in.
There are some stores that thebuyer is in the back room and is
the manager buyer as well.
Sometimes you deal with theowner and sometimes you deal
with a more sophisticated buyinggroup, like Cure Leaf.
They have one buyer for thearea that we deal with, so it's

(28:22):
and they have very mandatedstuff where you can't really go
in.
There's all types ofmerchandising very similar in
the wine industry, like whatyou're dealing with.
We can go in, we check stock,we make sure the inventory looks
good, make sure the POS is up.
So it's very similar ground.
And pound CPG business, like thegone of the days of just any
product with cannabis, will sell.

(28:42):
You have to have a good productwith a good brand or consumers
just move on.
It's like I can get anothercheap gummy somewhere else For
that.
It's a very fun industrybecause you could be creative,
you can have fun with it.
It's also we're selling.
We're selling weed too, right,like it's.
At the end of the day, it's asuper fun industry.
I haven't found anyone thatsaid your product makes me sad,

(29:04):
right.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
Yeah, I remember I was with my mom and dad and they
had some friends that they werewith and someone asked, like
they knew I'd been anentrepreneur and they were like
what are you working on thesedays?
And my mom just proudly says myson's a drug dealer now, which
is so funny.
It's like wild times we live in.
Yeah, I mean, I think it'sinteresting because that's
another progression of theindustry as it specifically

(29:26):
relates to beverage, like if youlooked in I keep on talking
about Massachusetts just becausethis is where our home state
launches but if you looked atMassachusetts three years ago,
at best there might have beenone beverage on the shelf at
best, and oftentimes you'd gointo a dispenser they wouldn't
have beverage.
Now you're starting to see likea more formal beverage program.
There's refrigerators that aredisplaying these things.

(29:49):
They have multiple differentstyles of beverage.
So it's amazing how early daysit is, but it's just now
starting to break through where,like, the retailers really have
like a portfolio of beverages,not just like one option for you
.
It's super exciting.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
Do you hear the wine companies and the beer companies
, the spear companies, talkingabout the legal cannabis market
affecting their numbers?
Or are you guys talking aboutit on your side of the world?

Speaker 1 (30:14):
From the supplier side.
They are going in and buying upand investing and that sort of
thing.
Every year in North Carolinait's supposed to show up on a
ballot and it misses by inchesand I think that's just the old
school South.
It's ironic how laws are, foreverything are so super tough,
except for like guns, notgetting political.
But it's very easy to get a gunin North Carolina but it is not

(30:37):
easy to get.
You know, I guess the wayaround it is Delta 8.
So the down here the Delta 8and the Delta 9, the CBDs, those
are sold everywhere, convenientstores, no specific store that
sells.
But they'll have high endstores that'll sell some of the
higher end products.
But I think the fear down hereis little C stores, little

(30:57):
bodegas that are selling some ofthese iffy products.
You're like God forbid, there'ssomething in here that I take
and I get sick.
Or from a drug testingperspective, you know, I pop for
something.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
On one hand, I look at, we look at some of the
regulations and the way thatthese states are rolling out,
and you just say, like God, ifyou just put five smart people
in a room, couldn't they havefigured this out in a better way
?
On the other hand, I have a lotof sympathy for the regulators,
because it is a complex thing.
Right, it's nuanced.
You have varying opinions on it.
You have to roll it out in afair way, so it's not the

(31:29):
easiest problem in the world tosolve.
The one thing I will say,though, is, like you know, speak
for myself on this.
I think Josh feels the same way.
I know for myself.
When we first started gettinginto the cannabis space to be
totally transparent, this was abusiness opportunity.
I thought I'd be in thecannabis space, do a venture,
bounce somewhere else.
When you get into the cannabisspace, it starts to develop a

(31:50):
passion for what the product is,for some very specific reasons,
and they are.
The reasons are how you see itcan affect certain people and
what good it can do for them,and what I just thought about
when you were talking aboutNorth Carolina.
I have a friend that's down inNorth Carolina, but she happens
to be dealing with some fairlyserious postpartum issues.

(32:12):
She has a mother that isdealing with a cancer diagnosis
and cancer treatment.
When you see something likethis, it becomes really
frustrating and sad that someonelike that can't have access to
this medicine.
Truly, it's medicine, right Forsome people, you know.
I know that some people ininstances like that, one of the
only things that might be ableto help them break out of that

(32:33):
funk or just relieve the painand sleep for a little while
would be something like cannabis.
So when you start to divefurther and further into this
space, it starts to become, Iwould say, on one hand, passion,
on the other hand frustrationthat you know there are people
that don't have access to thisthat could really use it and
this stuff will all come in duetime.
But it does develop a certainlevel of passion that, like I

(32:56):
didn't know I was going to have.
Getting into this space, I'vebecome such an advocate for the
plants and what it can do topeople and realizing that like
it is crazy that we haveoutlawed this plant yet allowed
other things to thrive.
I mean you talk about theprescription drug epidemics that
are going on in the UnitedStates.
I'm not against prescriptiondrugs but when you look at like

(33:17):
the opioid crisis and thingsthat are going on, it just seems
pretty crazy to me that thisplant that has essentially, at
this point, been proven not toreally have a lot of downside.
I'm not a scientist, I'm justgoing to go with the data that
exists out there, but certainlyone could make a pretty solid
argument that it's much lessharmful than some of the other
alternatives, and the fact thatthat is an accessible nationwide

(33:41):
is fairly tragic to me.
So you know, I think one of thethings that we've realized in
getting into this space is likeit started as a business venture
and something we werepersonally passionate about, but
it's interacting with otherpeople and seeing the
experiences they have withcannabis and how it can help
their life that really starts todevelop a strong rooted passion
for this industry.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
It's really cool.
The feedback you get is alwaysvery personal.
People will share with you onewhat's going on in their life
and how high tide made theirlife better, or like just
experiencing or using cannabisand like it opened their eyes.
My aunt was always a one or twoglass of wine drinker.
No, no issue, no, nothing to.

(34:21):
This summer she's just switchedto high tide and she was
talking about it like she wastrying to sell my wife on it.
Who my wife is kind of like newto cannabis, try it a little
bit.
It's funny, it's not really herthing and like.
Her aunt was just like you haveto try it, it's so much better.
It's just make like and to hearthat and to hear people talk
about it's very fulfilling.
You know, it's very nice toknow that the product that we're

(34:43):
making is actually helpingpeople and it tastes good.
You know it's a really funindustry and a free wild ride to
think I'm actually owningsomething.
You know I always said you know, one day, if people like, what
do you want to do?
One day I want to own my ownbrand.
And about a month ago I wassitting with one of our vendors
and we were just talking andhe's like, and I asked him what
he wants to do and he asked methe same question back and I was

(35:05):
like shit, what do I get?
I need a new thing now.
I need a new like goal.
It's been a lifelong goal andit's been.
It's, it's, it's amazing, it'sso much fun doing it.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
It's awesome.
I'm really sick for you guys.
This is a I mean again, I'monly trying the nonactive
version, but you know I can'twait to get back home and try
the good stuff when I don't getdrug tested and all that kind of
fun stuff.

Speaker 3 (35:27):
Scott, one thing I was just thinking about when
you're saying when you moveddown to North Carolina you had
no friends.
I enjoyed watching your socialmedia with you and your daughter
.
Like it seemed like you justlike dug in and like, like
became like daddy and like itwas awesome watching you do that
.
Man, when I see dads do that,it makes me so happy and I think
I think a lot more fathers needto realize like that's a hard

(35:51):
ass job and anybody that does itI mean dude, like dude it was.
I loved watching you do and Igot a couple friends that are
doing that and it's like dude,good for you.
Man.
You'll never get that time backto do that with your daughter.
Absolutely Must have been.
It was, yeah, I mean we're inNorth Carolina.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
Wow, well beautiful, I love it.
Yeah, gorgeous.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
It's just like the temperature is the exact same
every single day.
That's beautiful.
I didn't work for five monthswhile I was down here, and it
was, I mean, from a maleperspective.
You're the breadwinner, you'resupposed to be the breadwinner,
you know, and we moved down herebecause my wife got a job and
it took me a while, but mydaughter was five months old
when we moved here and I got tospend months, six through ten,

(36:28):
with her and by myself.
As you know, took me like sixto seven months to get a job,
but I got to be Mr Mom for thattime and it was amazing.
But on the other side, like youwere saying, that was just.
I'm never going to get thattime back.
It's just amazing to have it.
How old is?

Speaker 3 (36:41):
your daughter.
Now, it's been what.
How old is she?
Six and a half.
Six and a half, okay.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
Well, what do you got for kids?

Speaker 2 (36:47):
Seven and five Two girls All right.

Speaker 3 (36:49):
Eleven, eight and five.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Five, Five.
Yeah, it's, this is six six.
Six is brutal, yes.

Speaker 3 (36:57):
Yeah, yeah, Do you follow those guys online?
They do those press conferencesafter like a long weekend.
They'll be like so whathappened at school?

Speaker 2 (37:06):
So we had a tough first day of school.
It was a little bit roughgetting off the bus, yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
Okay, that's so good.
You had an issue with theteacher.
You want to talk?

Speaker 2 (37:14):
about Breakdown Breakdown, so good, so, good so
good, do you ever do stand upanymore?

Speaker 1 (37:20):
No, and that was kind of why I did this.
I need some sort of creativeoutlet.
Yeah, you know, that's wherethe whole like Karni saves the
world thing comes from.
She was just like oh, you're sosmart, you're going to save the
world, aren't you smart ass?
There we go, here it comesagain.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
That's great.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
I'd like a good.

Speaker 3 (37:34):
I don't think you could spite naming of the
podcast, yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
I'm not that bad.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
Yeah, it's definitely spiked.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yeah, I don't want to brag guys, but I have six
downloads just happened thisweekend from Zambia.
All right, I believe that's inAfrica.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
It's an up and coming market.
We're actually looking to seeif Zambia actually is a big
market opportunity.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
Are you moving?
If any of you listeners knowbusiness in Zambia, please reach
out no-transcript.
I will put it the show notesfor them to reach out to you.
Okay, thank you.
Yes, please.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Well, we have on the back of you, see our cans on the
non active ones, yes, we have aQR code on the back of them and
if you scan that QR code, itactually takes you to our
question game and the questionis how do you get the QR code?

Speaker 3 (38:11):
I'm going to go to the back of the box and see if
it's on the back of the box.
I'm going to go to the back ofthe box.
Okay, I'm going to go to theback of the box.
Okay, I'm going to go back tothe box.
Okay, I'm going to go to theback of the box, okay.
And then we'll go to ourquestion game.
And the question game is not amarketing scheme.
It's not something to get yourinformation.
All it is is, if you're sittingaround with your buddies or
your wife or anybody, and youdon't know what to talk about,

(38:33):
you want to get the conversationstarted.
Scan the code and we'll giveyou a fun question to ask and
hopefully you'll have some fun.
We did it all weekend with myfamily.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
It was one of the things we realized when we were
building this brand Like.
Again, this goes back to whatwe were talking about with the
idea of like.
What's the purpose of this?
It's not just the liquid that'sin the can, it's what people do
when they're consuming theliquid.
One of the things we thoughtabout is, like one of our
favorite things to do is to sitaround a campfire, around a
couch or whatever, and just askridiculous, outlandish,

(39:00):
hypothetical questions, and youknow it sparks interesting
conversations, and so we wantedto make that a part of the can,
a part of the brand.
So our hope is that people cansit around and socialize and get
to know each other more.
I played the question game withlike my wife and my closest
friends and I've like learnedstuff about them that I never
knew.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
It just happened this week.
I was, we were playing it andmy wife.
One of the questions was likewhat would be the most
embarrassing part of your Googlesearch?
And she went into this wholestory about what she likes to do
and she feels very it's kind oflike our guilty pleasure thing.
But if she is following aninfluencer and the influencer
talks about like something thathappened or like a tragic event

(39:40):
or something she's like, well,now I got to know exactly
everything about it, deep rabbithole.
She just goes down the road andI was sitting there and I was
like you never talked to meabout that.
I'll help start these thingsout with you, yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
A couple more questions about the can too.
Sure, is it an industrystandard?
You mentioned that it's a lawfor the tops.
Yeah, but is it an industrystandard, or did you choose the
specific eight ounce slim?
Can you know a lot of?

Speaker 3 (40:02):
it was because of cannabis.
You need a very specific can.
There's something calledscaling or leaching which.
What can happen when thecannabis sticks to a unlined can
?
So if you're not using theproper can, things can happen to
the product as it sits insuspension.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
So, to be clear, even in that scenario, the worst
that could happen is it doesn'thave enough effect.
It's never going to have thescenario where it has to be much
of an effect.
You can't grow cannabis in acan, right?
Yeah, yeah, what you'd beinterested in yeah, bottle aged
yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
So that was one of the reasons we went with this
specific can, one style one.
You know just it's kind ofindustry standard for this
product.
We did have a lot ofconversations about whether to
go with the stubby can or thetraditional can and you know
we're still learning.
It's also this is what'sreadily available when we think
about the production side.

(40:53):
So a lot of those kind ofdecisions went into it.
But again, you know, this isour first market.
This is really the test toprove out the brand and
everything.
So a lot of this is stilllearning.
Like you know, we could go toanother state and try a
different can, or definitely nota bottle.
We won't do a bottle, I cantell you that 24 ounce bomber
yeah 24 ounce would be cool.
I've seen 100 ounce cans thatthey call them.
The party can now Cheese Readyto drink brand has one of those

(41:17):
big cans going, so like can.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
No in liquor.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
How many other competitors do you have right
now?
I mean, is it 10, 15, 20?

Speaker 3 (41:26):
There's probably 20 other.
There's 20 other brandsprobably out there.
We are seeing someconsolidation of brands, meaning
like there's one big brandhouse out there that has
multiple brands underneath themand they're taking that all off.
Then there are some that arejust independent.
So there's a lot of differentways.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
There's a very, very small list of people that have
broken through to a nationalscale.
You could name them on one handright, so it's tiny and even of
those, the interesting thingabout it is like if you were to
poll most even cannabisconsumers and say, like tell me
three cannabis beverage brands,like right now they couldn't

(42:07):
even tell you what they are.
So there's a number ofdifferent reasons for that.
First off, it's brand new, sopeople are just starting to
scale up.
The other thing is like noteverybody is tackling it the way
Josh and I are.
So like from the first brick welaid down on this foundation,
our plan was to become anationally recognized brand.
Not everybody's doing the samething.
So sometimes you have like abrand that has gummies and vapes

(42:30):
and they're adding a beverage,or maybe it's a dispensary that
has four outlets and makes someof their own products.
So if you add those in thebrands pile up a little bit more
.
But actual people vying forlike a national footprint it's a
really small number right nowand that again like that's going
to be one of those things likeit's really the next two, three,

(42:53):
four years that you're going tostart to see it pop off in a
very significant fashion.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
Awesome.
So the dose that's in it isthat.
How is that agreed upon?
Is that a legal dose or is thatLegal?
That's legal.

Speaker 3 (43:03):
Okay, that's legal, so each state has their
different regs.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
Hold on?
Let's run that question backagain.
I know I have a differentanswer Go ahead, okay, all right
, go.
So the milligram dosagequestion is always going to be a
moving target.
It's interesting becausecannabis all right, all right,
hold on, hold on, hold on, holdon, hold on the the milligram
dosage is going to be aninteresting topic that I think
is going to be an evolving topicover the coming years.
You can get much like alcoholwhen you think about, you know,

(43:29):
milligrams it's always done inbeverage milligrams per dose,
right?
Milligrams per can.
So ours is five milligrams andyou know how that affects people
is within a similar band assomething like a beer, a glass
of wine or a cocktail.
It's within a band.
You know, one or two cocktailsmight affect someone very
differently than another person,but it is within a band.
Five milligrams is a great dosefor a starting dose for most

(43:54):
people, right?
So you know back to ourconversation earlier about
people being like, fearful ofwhat effect that's going to have
, five milligrams is stillconsidered a micro dose, meaning
if you have a whole can, itdoesn't matter.
If you're very sensitive tocannabis and this is the first
time that you've ever used it,you're never going to hit that
peak.
That just makes you incrediblyuncomfortable.

(44:15):
So you know, if you started toget into 10, 15, 20 milligrams,
that could be an uncomfortableexperience for a first time user
.
Five milligrams is never goingto be that.
So the reason we landed on fivemilligrams is because we always
want to be a beverage that issessionable and available to new
users in a safe manner.

(44:36):
So you know, when someone takesfive milligrams, if they're an
avid user of cannabis, theycould have more than one can,
just like they're having a fewcoronas.
If you're someone that's brandnew, you could have half that
can and even that whole can andsafely know that you're not
going to like freak out from toomuch cannabis.
I do think this is going tochange over time.
I think it's going to be justlike any other CPG product or

(44:58):
ALC or any other product.
Really, we're going to start tohone in on like maybe there's a
subset of customers that want atwo milligram beverage, a five
milligram, a 15.
The one thing I will say that'sprobably, you know, at least as
we see things right now, we'realways going to want to be in
the sessionable space.
So there are 100 milligrambeverages out there and that has
its target.
Yeah, so not in Massachusetts,not legal in Massachusetts.

(45:21):
But in California, colorado,you could get 100 milligram
beverage and that's great for acertain target market that is
very, very used to cannabis.
That being said, we always wantto be in like sort of the
social sessionable you know,design your own experience kind
of thing where someone can haveone, two, three cans, figure out

(45:42):
what experience they want andsort of hone in and the five
milligrams is a good dose to dothat with.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
So obviously there's no max dosage.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
Well, every state has their own max dose, Every state
has their own In Massachusettscurrently, right now, in the
recreational market it is fivemilligrams, new York is 10, and
it's just all varies.
And then in the medical sidethere are products that can be
at higher dosage per serving,but it all comes down to state
by state regulations.
You know when, even when we gointo those states that are 100

(46:10):
milligram, there's still a needfor a what they call low dose or
, you know, a low dosesessionable beverage.
It's just not everybody'slooking to get couchwalk.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
And it's different right, it's different than
alcohol, but like our goal is tomake it as equivalent as
possible, because it goes backto what Josh was saying earlier.
It's like you want to make thisunknown process as known as
possible and as familiar aspossible.
You know, we want it to be ascenario by which someone knows
that, like as much as we can getit to be, so we want one can to

(46:42):
be sort of the equivalent ofone RTD cocktail in alcohol.
So, yeah, it's like if you havefour or five RTD cocktails,
like you're going to be in adifferent headspace and it's the
same with our beverage for mostpeople.
But if you have one of them ortwo of them, you know that's
going to be a nice subtle socialeffect.
So we'll always try and staywithin that.

(47:03):
But it is going to be a movingtarget on milligrams per dose.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
How many states currently have legal cannabis?
37, I believe.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
Don't quote me on that.
We can, but I believe it's 37.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
Well, it's funny because it's moving so fast that
, like one of these might havechanged within the last two
months.
So like it is really reallygoing fast.
You're still some states that Ithought would have been the
last to hop on board that arenow coming online.
You know, I do think thatanswers 37 right now, but like,
if we were to have this podcastin a year, that's going to be a

(47:34):
different answer.
Oh yeah, absolutely, but likethe wave is starting to crash
over right.
It's like now you have themajority of states have it, and
even the states that are notlegal.
The majority of the peoplewithin that state, if it was a
popular vote, would vote forlegalization of cannabis.
So the majority of the UnitedStates, I believe at this point,
is in favor of legalizingcannabis.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
How's the non-alcoholic community
embracing the cannabis-infusedbeverages?

Speaker 2 (47:59):
Such an interesting question.
It's a great question, so allright.
So I think like one of thethings we should set the tone on
is there is like definitely abig non-alcohol movement going
on right now.
That's like huge is for sure.
It is a thing that seemed likeit was like a blip on a market
trend that is now here to stayright.

(48:19):
So you see a lot of thingscoming out with, like the
alkalized wine you have zeroproof cocktails and at this
point now, like any bar you goto like I remember like back in
the day, was like oh, dualswould be the thing that would be
there, but now you see like anentire line of mocktail, so that
there is this sort of trendgoing on where I think like it's

(48:40):
not people necessarily likecompletely giving up alcohol, or
there is some of that going on.
You also have people that arelike infusing different things
for different times, like maybethey want to on one night out,
just say I'm gonna stick withnon-alcohol.
So this is a trend.
The interesting thing for us islike I think we fit in this like
sort of interesting categoryright, one of the things that,

(49:01):
like we were on a talk at onepoint.
It was like a similar podcastformat.
You know the person that saidwell, like I had mentioned that
I had stopped drinking, right onthis, this podcast, drinking
alcohol and some of this is like, and someone is like saying
like, oh, do you feel like?
This was like you hated beingat a party without something in
your hand and like.
One of the things I want to makeclear on is, like, if someone's
looking to abstain fromsubstances, like there should be

(49:24):
no follow-up question about.
Like, if you have a diet cokein your hand or if you have a
water in your hand, like, goodon you, like, just like, go with
that.
Right, there shouldn't befollow-up questions.
But I do think there's thisinteresting thing going on where
, like, it's a number ofdifferent things.
You have the younger generationand josh and I've talked about
this ad nauseam the youngergeneration, a lot of them look

(49:44):
at I'll call it partying verydifferent than we do.
Oh, yes, right, so like they're, they're more mindful they're,
you know I we have yeah healthconscious.
We had a, we had someone thatworks with us in in our general
sphere and we were down in Miamifor a business meeting and josh
and I were like hey, look likewe're kind of the old guys, now

(50:06):
we're gonna go back, like go outand do your thing, and he's
like now I got a big daytomorrow.
We're like you're in Miami, dude, like go have fun right, and
this was so foreign to me andjosh, at 23 years old, like I
couldn't even wrap my headaround.
I'm like dude, like I would beout till three in the morning.
Yeah, we look at it differentlyand I think this is a trend
that's going to stick around.
What I would say on this inparticular is like there are,

(50:28):
there are some set of peoplethat want to abstain from
substances completely, and we werespect that to the utmost
right, and there are also peoplethat find that there's another
category of people that findthat alcohol is not serving them
but maybe cannabis could in adifferent way.
That happens to be my story,right, I don't.
I'm not affected by cannabis theway I was affected by alcohol,

(50:50):
and I happen to like that alittle bit better than I.
I like alcohol.
There also and I think this isto be honest, I think this is
where the biggest chunk comes inare people that like they're
not going to stop drinking wineor beer or their cocktail.
It's just like a thing to addinto the mix.
So one of the things someonesaid to us and I remember this

(51:11):
really resonated with me.
They were talking about thethanksgiving to new year run
right and when you think aboutthanksgiving to new year, run
brutal.
That can be a nonstop barrageof events in which alcohol is
like flowing free, hence dryjane.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
What is it dry jane, where it pops out.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
So one of the things so much anyway.
Second right, I hadn't eventhought about this, but someone
said like, yeah, like, if I haveto go to all these parties and
socialize, like, there aresometimes where I could just say
I'm just going to have waterand that's fine.
But there are sometimes wherepeople want a social buzz but
they're kind of done with thealcohol for just like that time
period.
So, like, we encourage that to.
So I think we're going to hitthe angle from a lot of

(51:51):
different sides.
Some people are just gonna say,hey, I'm exclusively going to
use cannabis now, that justserves me better.
But there's also people thatare gonna say, like I would like
to put this into the repertoire, I'm not gonna recommend this.
However, I did hear somethinginteresting from a consumer
where they were talking abouthow sometimes, when they go out
at night or they're havingpeople over for a barbeque, they

(52:12):
would have their one or twobeverages and then, like it
would start to like the railscame off.
Then they weren't countinganymore.
Right it's, it's happened tothe best of us.
And then the next morning, ohyes, you got run over by a train
.
This particular person wassaying that their m?
O now is they have one cocktail.
The beginning of the night theypour one cocktail.
They have that, they switch tocannabis, whether it be gummies

(52:32):
or a beverage, and now a hightide, and so in the total
evening they might have threebeverages, one of them alcohol
to cannabis.
They wake up and they feel likea million bucks.
So like I could see that beinga thing, it's so I did.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
I started a dry january this year because I had
done the.
My birthday is early november,so I go november.
Well, yep.
And then my daughter's birthdayis the end of october.
So now we're doing end ofoctober through through new
years.
So I did, I did dry january andI was like I feel great, my
blood pressure was down, I wouldyou drive february and I went
all the way to st patty's day.
I'm not bragging because that'snot, that's not that big, it's

(53:08):
so great to go for me at thattime.
Yeah, so, um, but you know Iwould.
I would grab a non-alcoholicbeer and try.
And there is a kid.
It's a weird stigma.
It's like that's it.
You're forced to drink this inpublic, like, but you need
something in your hand asopposed to just you know and
that's you know it.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
There's like this pavlovian thing that is is
driven into our society that youcan't be having fun unless
there's something in your hand.
Right, it's not a good timeunless there's cocktails or or
well things flowing and that'sokay.
The question is like what isthat's in your hand and what are
you drinking is gonna make youfeel good?
I am so thankful that brandslike athletic came along that

(53:46):
really did a great jobdestigmatizing this idea of not
drinking.
You know, they were the firstpeople to be like it's cool not
to drink and they worked veryhard and their beer is really
good.
It's amazing product.
And now you see brands like samjim has a great tasting.
Um, what is it?
Just just the haze?
amazing hi mckinbrook, whenthey're all out there with them.

(54:06):
Um, and I think this whole ideaof moving away from alcohol,
whatever it is, if it's kombucha, if it's, you know, just a
seltzer, whatever it is, there'sjust this movement of better
drinks and better enjoyment,like this we had this.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
We were with josh and I were talking about this
earlier.
We were talking about how therewas someone that we know in our
network that it was their firsttime like they had consumed
maybe a little bit of cannabisin high school and college, but
it had been a while and and theywent out for a night and they
decided like I'm going toconsume high tide instead, I'm
just going to exclusivelyconsume that.
And they went out and I thinkthey had like two or three cans
or something like that.
They had this like social buzz.

(54:41):
They felt calm, relaxed,they're like laughing.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
You know all the effects will call the medicinal
effects the recreational effectkicked in that we can't
guarantee what happened to youat any sort of way.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
These disclosure is a non um but let's just say for
this particular person it worked.
And then they told us they wokeup and at 6 30 they they had set
an alarm.
At 6 30 they went for a run, alot, and then they came back and
they cook breakfast for theirkid and it was like this
interesting thing where thatlike what they were essentially
saying to us is like I feel likeI just found a cheat code and

(55:13):
like I know I understand thatexperience, like it's
interesting to you always havethis like way in balance of
things where you say likealright, if I eat that entire
pizza, I'm gonna love eatingthat pizza, but I'm gonna hate
myself later, you know, or likeif I'm at a wedding and I
consume too many beverages, likeI know I'm borrowing my fun
from tomorrow a little bit andthat's like an agreement I have

(55:33):
and it's fine, like totally okay, with people doing that.
It's kind of interesting if youcan have it's like the holy
grail, if you can have a socialeffect that you're not then
giving something up the next dayfor, and it can really be like
a magical elixir in that way.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Again I have the non active, but I'm very much
looking forward to that.
Um, you know, check that outbecause it does sound like.
Yeah, because, especially theolder you get, I mean it's just,
you know, down here.
I mean I'm sure it is up therestill, but there's just craft
breweries on every street cornerhere in Wilmington they use two
or three beers.
Yeah, hey, I don't know I'mpushing 50 and I don't have it

(56:09):
anymore.

Speaker 3 (56:09):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
The big game we had at Sam Adams.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
It's funny like we um parenting too, like we talked
to a lot of parents that say,like I wake up the next morning
I'm hung over and I'm an awfulmother and I don't want to deal
with my kids and this, and thatyou know, when we first set out,
we had the.
We had us in mind.
Right, we want to go out, wewant to be social, but we don't
want to pay for it and feelawful the next day and be
terrible people the next day.
Right, like that's the.

(56:33):
The alcohol just wasn't workingfor us, so we switched the
cannabis.
I never thought about womenhaving maybe I just don't think
about women like that but havingthat same issue of like if I
have two glasses of wine, I'mhung over the next time.
You don't really hear aboutlike moms complaining about
being hung over, like dads do,like you go to a social, moms
are just typically much moreresponsible, right you?

(56:55):
show up at your daughter'ssoccer game at six and eight in
the morning.
The joke is like oh, I had arough night.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Right.
Well, I mean the other thingabout that too, which is you're
absolutely right.
Like the other thing, I knowfrom my experience, as I
mentioned, I don't drink alcoholanymore.
That being said, like did foryears and I know for my wife
that third glass of wine couldmake her incredibly hung over
the next day.
I, back in the day, I couldhave three glasses of wine and
not even thought about it.
But like it can also affectlike, and it's not just male to

(57:22):
female, typically across theboard.
You know that kind ofconsumption rate could affect
women more.
So, yeah, it totally, totallymakes sense.
I mean, one of the things thatwe're trying to show is, like
there can be a called there's awine mom culture, right, there's
.
You can buy all sorts oftrinkets Like it's it's mommy
wine time and like why not?
Just add wine, why not?

Speaker 1 (57:44):
Closets, full of closets, full of.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
There's that whole thing and like I get it.
Like you know, life isstressful.
Being like a working mom isstressful.
Like I'm a parent, I get it.
It's stressful and sometimeslike you need a way to relax and
we have zero judgment againstanyone having a glass of wine at
the end of their tough day.
It can be a great, great outletfor for a lot of people.
I think what we really want todo is show that there is like

(58:07):
another option as well, likethere's something else you can
add to the mix that can give youwhat you're looking for, but
maybe not the downside, you know.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
Also, as we get older , our choices in alcoholic
beverages they mature as well.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
So I was 23, I was drinking tiny little beers.
Now we're drinking bigborderline double IPAs on a
regular basis.
You know, women are drinkingsome wine and some cocktails,
and those are higher in alcoholtoo.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
So I don't know if you guys went through this, but
I remember there was this timewhere I would just think to
myself man, I just cannot handlebeer the way I used to.
But then it dawned on me likeout of nowhere that I was
essentially drinking like sodawater in college, like like real
.
I won't like say the labels,but like we all know them.
Yeah, we all know them right,and like, yeah, when you're 19

(58:51):
years old you can suck down likea lot of natural lights before
it becomes like really, you know, debilitating to you.
Do you think Nettie Light'sgoing to come after us?
Yeah, maybe, but like, I mean,they know the game there and
right, it's a light, sessionablebeer that you can have a lot of
them, but at the time, when Iwas in my late 20s, I'm having
these like craft IPAs.
You ain't down in seven of them.

(59:12):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
It's tough.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
It's tougher, and not only just on the alcohol
content, but just they'reheavier and like.
But I just remember being likeman.
I used to be able to like suckthem back a lot easier.
And then I'm like, well, yeah,these things have three times
the amount of alcohol that theBud Light I was having back in
the day.
Had you know?

Speaker 3 (59:30):
I hear the statement a lot from people that they say
one day we'll look back atdrinking as we do cigarettes.
And when I look at likecigarettes, cigarettes were a
huge change in America's culture, like when when that stopped.
If you look at it like thegeneration now that are a lot
more healthy, that are a lotmore health conscious, that all
started like 20 years since theyallowed smoking.

(59:51):
Like it took a while, but itdid have a profound change on
the American population.
I would mean they allowedsmoking.
Well, they all like smoking inbars.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Oh yeah, all right, smoking in bars.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
You can still smoke, sorry, sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
They allowed smoking in bars and restaurants and like
really clamp down on, like youcan barely smoke.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
When I was down in North Carolina you could still
smoke in bars.
So when I was at college inNorth Carolina you could light
up a cigarette in the bar, Iguess so what I'm saying is like
that had a change and noweverybody looks at smoking.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
Adam Kroll has this great bit Like.
If somebody said like my dadwent out for cigarettes and
never came back, the biggestissue would be your dad's
smoking.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
Like, like.
Oh, my God, talk about that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
You have to live with that Right.

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
So, like my point is, a lot of people have a belief
in whether it's just panderingto the masses or giving their
personal beliefs that we'regoing to look back on alcohol as
bad as we do cigarette.
I don't know.
I mean that seems like a farjump, but there's a lot of
research out there that peopleare saying it's really bad for
you.
Again, everything in moderation.
Nothing is really bad if it'sjust once in a while.

(01:00:56):
But I think we could be sittinghere in 20 years and the
perception could change, I thinkno, you're very hopeful.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
I hope for my children.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
It does, you know?
I hope definitely possible.
I hope that they go through the20 years of experimenting to
lead them to believe that thisis just not the thing for them.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Guys.
Thank you so much, Shay andJosh.
This has been amazing, soinformative.
Your desire to get this wordout is infectious.
I'm really rooting for you guys.
This is really a cool thing andit's one more reason to get
back.
I thought it was just go toFenway was the only reason to go
back home, but now I've gotanother reason.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
And thank you.
By the way, I mean the I thinkthe format.
Sometimes, like you know, in alot of different formats you get
three sentences or a 30 secondbit to talk about your passion
and what you did.
I love the format that you'reworking with.
Sometimes you can really learnmore about a brand or an
entrepreneur or how people tickin longer form and love and
respect what you're doing.
So thank you for having us on.

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
We really appreciate it.
Thank you for allowing us totell the story.
Thank you, it's helpful for ustoo to get our word out and
hopefully people listen in.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
If people want to, uh , to learn more about us,
wwwgethightidecom get hightidecom.
You can also follow us onsocial.
We do a lot of great work.
You'll see me and Josh's uglymugs on Instagram and tick talk
and all the above at.
I love it, I think that is agreat.
We're having a lot of fun withit.
We like to make it a page thatis very followable and people

(01:02:20):
won't regret regret clicking thefollow line.
Um, so we're at at high tidebebs on all social channels so
you can find us there and youknow, hopefully, for anyone
who's listening, we'll be in astate near you pretty soon.
Awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
Well, I wish you guys the best luck.
Thank you so much for being onuh.
Continue success and pleasecome back when you start
breaking into other statesAbsolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
Thank you, Scott.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
Very much appreciated , scott.
All right, thanks guys, takecare.
Can we swear in?

Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
this podcast, absolutely Okay.
Yeah, fuck, fuck, shit, fuck.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
Fuck shit.