August 9, 2023 • 40 mins
Unearth the secrets of juggling multiple roles with my guest, Jessica Martin, a lawyer and an author who has penned two books. Jessica’s story is about balancing motherhood, a demanding profession, and her lifelong passion for writing.
Jessica reveals the process of writing her books, from finding an agent on Twitter to the intricate process of editing and publishing. She unpacks her strategies for staying organized, meeting deadlines, and maintaining character consistency. Furthermore, Jessica introduces us to her journey through the often daunting world of book marketing, focusing on bookstore visits and the importance of supporting indie bookstores.
In the last leg of our conversation, we delve into the digital realm with Jessica, exploring how she navigates the world of online reviews. Giving us insight into her experiences with choosing a narrator for the audiobook and also the book cover creation, Jessica talks about how she manages her social media presence and how she uses it to connect with her fans. Our discussion wraps up with a chat about her books 'For the Love of the Bard' and 'The Dane of My Existence,' and a peek into the possibility of these works maybe someday, being adapted for the screen!
To keep up with Jessica's adventures:
https://jessicamartinbooks.com/
Instagram: seejesswritebooks
If you aren't able to visit a local bookstore:
https://www.amazon.com/stores/Jessica-Martin/author/B09HSR2YVG?ref=ap_rdr&store_ref=ap_rdr&isDramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=true
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/s/%22A+Bard%27s+Rest+Romance%22?Ntk=P_Series_Title&Ns=P_Series_Number&Ntx=mode+matchall
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Scott (00:00):
And a guest today is Jessica Martin.
She's a lawyer by trade, awriter by choice and a complete
smartass.
By all other accounts that's aself-described complete smartass
, not my words.
Based in the suburban wilds ofBoston, jess shares her life
with a finance geek, smallsass-based human and a pair of
dogs named after James Bondcharacters.
She is currently an amazingauthor who has now put out her
(00:22):
second book, and we're psychedto have her here.
Jessica Martin, welcome toCardi Saves the World.
Well thank you, happy to be here.
Thank you so much for coming.
So you are like an author.
That's crazy.
Jessica Martin (00:33):
I'm like an author and like an attorney,
both of us.
Scott (00:36):
Every attorney I know has like just a crazy life which
I'm sure you do right Just likecrazy lost stuff going on, and
then you have time to writebooks and you're a mom.
Jessica Martin (00:44):
And I'm a mom.
I'm a girl mom and you as agirl dad, I'm sure understand
what it's like.
Oh yeah, of the drama and sassthat comes along with being a
girl mom or a girl dad.
Scott (00:52):
It's brutal, brutal.
Jessica Martin (00:54):
It's great.
It's good practice for underteens.
How old?
How old is your daughter now?
Seven and a half.
Scott (01:00):
Seven and a half.
Okay, so I have a six and ahalf and yeah there's just, it's
a whole.
It's incredible.
So I had I don't know if thisis gonna make the podcast, but
I'll tell you the story so afriend of mine came down and we
went during the day.
We went to a couple breweries Imean Wilmington, and Wilmington
has a lot of breweries my wifedrove and my daughter was in the
back seat.
Well, yeah, I had a couplebeers and I had my phone out and
(01:20):
I was taking like selfie videowhen I was winking at her and
she's just like giving me theeye, just stopped winking at her
and she just picked her noseand wiped it on my back.
Jessica Martin (01:30):
I think that should probably be in the
podcast.
Yeah, all right, like wait,shut things down.
Scott (01:35):
So what did you do that for?
She's like stop recording meand stop making fun of me.
Wow.
Jessica Martin (01:42):
I mean, you can't argue with her methods.
Scott (01:44):
They were swift and effective, and you know I had
had a couple beers of me, so Iget it, you know.
So so you're also a lawyer.
And what was the genesis ofbecoming an author on top of
your already crazy life?
Jessica Martin (01:56):
Yeah, so I've been a writer my whole life.
It started in the fifth grade.
There was a ghost writingspooky contest and the prize was
this pumpkin, and I was likeI'm here for it.
So I wrote my first, my firstspooky tale as a fifth grader.
I won that pumpkin.
Scott (02:11):
Actually.
Jessica Martin (02:12):
And then I went on to thank you.
I went on to write all throughmiddle school, high school.
In college I minored increative writing.
It's partially why I chose myschool is that they had a really
good creative writing program.
And then when I got out ofschool I realized like two
things.
One, writing is really hardwhen you're learning writing
throughout the year, so youteach you how to write these
beautifully contained shortstories.
(02:33):
Nobody teaches you how to writea novel or how to stick with it
or how to get a hundredthousand words down on the page,
and it doesn't make any money.
So I spent my.
I spent my 20s and 30s writingon the side.
But I decided to go to lawschool because I am a contract
negotiator by trade.
I love writing, I lovenegotiating.
So every day I writetechnically for my job and it's
(02:53):
always nice to kind of switchbetween the two, like turning it
off and putting on sort of acreative lens, and then you know
, turning that off and gettingback into being technical.
So I write all the time and Iwrote sci-fi.
I wrote sci-fi fiction forabout six, seven years, yeah,
and I was getting all theselovely rejection letters which
were like we love your writing,but it's a tight market.
We can't sell it.
(03:14):
And at some point this otheridea started to percolate and I
thought how hard could it be towrite a rom-com?
The answer is it's challenging.
Right Switching from genre togenre?
Scott (03:22):
I would think so.
Jessica Martin (03:23):
I have utmost respect for rom-com writers.
Right and miraculously, youknow, I finished this book.
I couldn't believe how quicklyI finished this book and I
started editing it.
And then I like to tell peopleI'm the only person on the
planet that ever found theiragent via a Twitter pitch.
They used to have thesepre-COVID would have these
Twitter pitch contests and youwould pitch your book in
whatever 146 characters,whatever it is, and it was a
(03:45):
very last like pitching slot ofthe day and I was like you know,
I'm gonna go for it.
I want to go for it on this.
And that's how I found my agent, maggie.
She's in Boston and we got intouch through the Twitter
contest and, you know, aboutthree weeks later she'd read the
whole thing and she said I'mgonna sell this in the next six
months.
Scott (04:00):
Really.
Jessica Martin (04:01):
I was like, oh okay, maggie, and she did.
She sold it to Penguin in sixmonths.
So it was a whirlwind to havewritten your whole life and had
no success, limited success.
And then all of a sudden, youknow you meet the right person,
they open a door for you andyou're on your way to getting a
book published.
Scott (04:15):
That's amazing.
That's a lot.
So you said it didn't take youthat long to write what's not
long look like.
Jessica Martin (04:20):
Yeah, about nine months.
Soup to nuts on sort of thewriting and the first couple
passes of editing.
I'm a sort of avometer of words, like I just I get everything
out there and then you read themand you're like that is
something.
So you go back and you edit itand I spent a lot more time in
the editing phase.
So I would say you know aboutnine to 11 months and then I
(04:41):
polished some more.
When I met Maggie we did acouple more rounds.
So maybe call it 12 to 13months to get it and then you do
more editing with your editor.
How do you're editing House ofNew York, mine's Penguin?
So I would say 15, let's say 15months all in between their
different iterations, but mostof that was editing.
Scott (04:58):
That's amazing and I'm sorry I failed to mention the
name of the first book is Forthe Love of a Bard.
Yes, and so that came out in2022?
Jessica Martin (05:06):
Yes, in June it was a summer release of Beatrice
.
Scott (05:09):
And then you have a sequel to it that comes out in
2023?
.
Jessica Martin (05:13):
Crazy.
It's out, scott.
It was out on the 4th of Julyand it's called the Dane of my
Existence.
We're keeping with theShakespearean puns here.
Yes, so that one came out, andit was nice to finally be a
sophomore.
When your debut goes, you haveno idea what to expect.
You talk to your writer friends.
So going through the second onewas so much easier.
It was just so much chiller.
I knew what was coming.
I knew what to expect.
(05:33):
It was great.
Scott (05:34):
It's awesome.
So can you give just a slightsynopsis for the listeners?
I guess both books, but breakone.
Break the mech down.
Jessica Martin (05:42):
Absolutely so, for the Love of the Bard is the
first in the series, and when Icame up with this idea for a
rom-com, I started with a place,and I grew up in Massachusetts.
I spent my summers in NewHampshire and so I started to
think about this town and thesequirky little towns that are all
over New Hampshire and Ithought what if there was a
Shakespearean obsessed one?
How fun would that be if theyhad a Shakespeare festival every
(06:02):
year?
I'm an English nerd, fulldisclosure.
So that was kind of nerdy andfun.
And then I started to think,well, can't just be a
Shakespeare festival, right,they've got to be all in on
Shakespeare.
So maybe they have goofy littlestorefront names like measure
for measure hardware or partingsuch sweet gelato.
So then I really started tohave some fun with this town.
Once I had the town I startedto populate it and I decided I
(06:24):
was going to try to write atrilogy, because rom-coms
they're great when they sort ofcarry on a couple in the series.
It's one of my favorite thingsabout rom-coms.
So the first sister is MirandaBarnes.
She is a literary agent and awriter, and she's the middle
sister.
She's the peacekeeper.
She's incredibly snarky despitethat.
But she is sort of sandwichedbetween these two larger than
(06:45):
life personalities.
So the first book is reallyabout her.
She's coming home, she meets anold ex-flame who's now the town
veterinarian, and you know he'snot living in his mom's
basement.
He is a good-looking dude,saves puppies for a living, and
so really that first right, whodoesn't want a man who saves
puppies for a living?
So really that first book isabout them sort of getting over
(07:05):
there not so great past and theywork together to put on this
production of 12th night for thefestival.
So that's the first book.
And then the second book isPortia.
And Portia is the eldest barnsister and she hates the town In
a way.
Miranda loves Shakespeare.
Portia has never understood thehype about Shakespeare,
absolutely looks down onShakespeare and just so happened
(07:27):
she gets this new lawyer gig.
Portia's a lawyer, no comment,and she's moving from New York
to Boston to take this job andshe's taking a summer sabbatical
.
So she comes home to the townfish out of water, doesn't
really know what to do withherself, and then quickly
becomes embroiled.
There's a real estate developerin town and he's sniffing
around the town's best propertyand, lo and behold, the town
(07:48):
doesn't own it, like everybodythought.
So it sets up this nice battles, enemies to lovers sort of the
trope that they talk about.
But really I think it's rivals,rivals to lovers, these two
very corporatey personalitiessquare enough for the future of
the town.
And what I like about it isPortia is really a villain in
the first book and in thissecond book she's the hero.
So I thought that was reallyfun writing Somebody you didn't
(08:11):
care for in the first book youreally rooted against.
Now all of a sudden you're likeah, that's a bad.
So that is the premise of thefirst and the second book.
Scott (08:19):
So when you started writing the first book, did you
have a second book in mind, orwas the?
Did that kind of comeorganically later on?
Jessica Martin (08:26):
I had them all planned out from the beginning
Three sisters, three books and Istarted to think about side
characters.
So I knew, when I was writingPortia as the villain in the
first book, that she would be mystarring lady in the second
book.
So I knew that and I knew just,I was gonna no hold back, I was
gonna make her unlikable andthen I was gonna flip the tables
on you, which is exactly what Idid in the second book.
Scott (08:46):
So you have three books planned, but only two out.
I do Do tell.
Jessica Martin (08:50):
Yes, for everybody keeping score.
And finally, the youngest, theyoungest sister is Cordy
Cordelia, and she is sort of theSpitfire, firebrand.
You never know what she's gonnado.
She's gonna burn the place down, she's gonna light it up.
She is the town baker, sheworks at Much Ado About Pastry
and she is really sort of theanchor of that family.
(09:12):
But she is definitely the wildchild and she's probably the one
I identify the least with, whoI love the most but I don't
identify with because I am not awild child.
God, you've known me.
Yes, very good, veryconservative, very rule based.
Yes, cordy is none of thesethings.
So writing her story, I think,has been the most challenging.
Scott (09:28):
Wow, that's awesome.
Did you have this whole likemapped out George Lucas, star
Wars trilogy thing going on?
Yes, I like it, I like it.
So once you get a book out,then what happens?
Jessica Martin (09:40):
Yeah, then the marketing begins.
Then that's sort of the dog andpony show of marketing your
book, helping find its readers,its champions.
You do a lot of podcasts.
You do some book signings Notas much as you think, I think.
You get a lot more traction nowonline, so you build a social
platform.
I'm very active on Instagram.
Scott (10:01):
Yes.
Jessica Martin (10:01):
I've not done the TikTok, I have not put my
toe on the TikTok.
Scott (10:04):
I have it either.
I'm scared.
I'm scared, I'm not there.
Jessica Martin (10:09):
But yeah, you do those things to find your
reader, but Instagram, facebook,facebook sells a lot of books.
I found it for my marketingteam of two at Penguin, and
Facebook sells tons of books.
It's got an algorithm Instagram, twitter.
I generally stay off Twitter.
I tend to run my mouth, soInstagram is sort of
picture-based.
Things are best for me.
Scott (10:28):
Have you done the threads no?
Jessica Martin (10:31):
No, I looked into it and I just it feels I'm
going to use the word derivative.
Scott (10:35):
Yeah, Do you thread?
I did just, you know, topromote podcasts and I was like
you know, I'm just I'm askingfor trouble, I'm going to get
mouthy and it's just, it's tooinstantaneous.
Jessica Martin (10:44):
Yes, it's too much for me, right?
Yeah, no, I'm not threading.
Scott (10:48):
Yeah, so you've done book signings.
How, how crazy is that?
Is that so people physicallycame to a building buy your book
and then wait for you tophysically sign it?
That's like I know that'spretty ego pumping right there.
Jessica Martin (11:00):
It's epic, it's also, it's also ego draining
when you go to a signing andvery few people show up.
So it's the.
It's the highs and lows ofpeople showing up or not showing
up.
But I will tell you I'm alifelong reader and I can count
on the number on my one hand howmany times I've gone to a book
signing.
I just didn't know that peopledid that yeah.
So, it's great that people comeout that way, but normally you
(11:20):
try to make it good for them.
You bring some bookmarks andswag and then you do a reading
and people seem to really likethat.
Scott (11:26):
That's yeah, that's interesting.
I'm sure it could turn out likeit could be just genuine fans
that are just awesome and justsupportive and want to just show
their face.
And then you might get like doyou think you get any?
Like, uh, hecklers.
But I was thinking more likeyou know, dorks that are like
following you around, like toevery single book signing.
Do you have a wish?
I wish.
Jessica Martin (11:43):
That would be fun.
In the book, everybody whoworks at Shakespeare is called a
bardolator, and so I don't havemany bardolators.
I get a lot of fun questions.
I mean it's amazing what peoplewill ask out in public of you,
but I've gotten pretty seasoned.
At this point that no questionis surprising.
But everyone said I'm like, oh,all right, that's cool.
Um, yeah, so no question seemsto be a whole part.
(12:05):
But what everybody always wantsto know is you know, is Adam in
the main characters?
Are they real?
Did you base them on people?
Um, that's the big one I get,yeah, and then the other one I
get is how hard was it to writethe sex scene?
I get that one all the time.
Scott (12:19):
Goodness gracious.
Jessica Martin (12:19):
Goodness gracious is right, and I wrote
an article for writer's digeston it called how to write a sex
scene like nobody is watching.
Um, so I will send you the linkto that.
It's very tongue in cheek.
Yes, yeah, that's part of theshow notes.
Yes, that's part of theexpectation is that you you
write one Right.
Most rom-coms have them.
Yeah, unless you're sort of inthe like a Christian genre, most
of them have them.
So that was very nerve-wrackingto look anybody who'd read it
(12:42):
in the eye after that.
And then I just got used to it.
You get used to it, scott.
Scott (12:48):
I am very good friends with your husband, justin.
Yes, and I'm assuming that hehas read these books.
What was his take on the scenes?
Jessica Martin (12:55):
You know what I'm gonna out him right now?
He has not read any of my books.
Scott (12:59):
Shut up, I know, are you?
Jessica Martin (13:00):
serious.
Oh, I'm so cathartic.
Gourby is not much of a reader,but I will say what he is so
supportive of is part of thereason I can write these books
is because we are like zoneparents, because he will take M
for like four hours so I can,and then I'll pile it in and
I'll take M so he can go off andrelax, and then we come
together and do family night.
So I don't think I could writeas quickly as I do or as much as
(13:21):
I do if I didn't sort of havethat kind of supportive partner.
Scott (13:23):
Oh, that's good.
Okay, but wow, he didn't readlike he didn't read them, but he
checks.
Jessica Martin (13:28):
He checks to make sure he's in the
dedications and theacknowledgement.
I'm like who are you?
Scott (13:35):
That's when that one's tough.
I mean, I dropped my firstepisode.
I like physically stood andwatched my wife download it.
I was like you, better hit thatlittle arrow down Now now.
Jessica Martin (13:45):
I mean she talked into it, though she
talked to you to do it.
I mean she should, she shoulddefinitely bear witness.
Yeah, yeah.
Scott (13:50):
Well, she also technically named it for make a
fun of me for being, orattempting to be, smarter than
everybody.
Jessica Martin (13:55):
Well, I like the name of it.
I think it's brilliant.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
Scott (13:59):
You talk about the questions.
Do you have any crazy questionsthat you can tell us that
aren't like dirty ones?
Jessica Martin (14:03):
No, not like foul or dirty.
Most of them around the sexscene.
You know like people giggle now, like I just did.
People just want to know ifthey're real or like.
They go character by character.
They're like is Miranda real?
Is the dog real?
There's always going to be adog in my book, so people want
to know if Puck and Hamlet arereal.
So they're loosely based on myrescue dog, but it's just, it's
kind of funny and it's evenbetter when my friends are in
(14:25):
the audience, because a lot ofmy characters are sort of snips
and snatches of friends and sortof make these amalgamations or
I just eavesdrop like the bestplace for me is standing in a
Starbucks behind teens man.
I pick up some of my best linesstanding behind teens and
Starbucks, but I think that's abig one.
And then people will sometimesask like oh, did you ever think
of doing this, this and thiswith the plot?
(14:45):
And then you're like no, no, Idid not.
That is actually brilliant.
So then you wonder like, can Itake that idea?
Scott (14:52):
If you like.
Oh, maybe I have to wait a fewbooks until that person forgets.
They actually mentioned it tome, Exactly.
Jessica Martin (14:57):
Yes, and then people just have a lot of
Shakespeare questions and it'sso interesting to me because
they're like oh, did you mean toembed the Shakespeare thing
here?
And a lot of the times I thinkShakespeare is just so the
Quiddus in his out there.
That like you're like, yeah,okay, I can, I can see how you
would work Shakespeare into that.
So lots of good questions, lotsof weird ones.
Scott (15:16):
It seems like there's like an actual like universe
created.
You've created this universe ofthe barred verse.
The barred verse and it soundslike the barred verse.
Admittedly, I have not readthem either yet, but I intend on
it.
It sounds like this barredverse could possibly be
translated to the screen.
Is that something that thatinterests you, funny?
Jessica Martin (15:34):
you should say that, Scott.
I'm specifically forbidden fromtalking about that.
Scott (15:39):
Okay.
Jessica Martin (15:40):
But it would be lovely someday to see barred on
the small screen or the bigscreen, and that is certainly
the hope for it.
I think it naturally lendsitself to kind of a fan base in
a universe.
It would look really good in asmall, we'll say hallmarky type
movie.
Look really good.
Scott (15:56):
You know it sounds like to me.
In the interest of fulldisclosure, I was and still am a
gigantic Gilmore Girls fan.
I don't care if anyone knows,I'm not scared.
Love it.
It sounds like a smarterjuicier.
Gilmore Girls, hometown feel.
Jessica Martin (16:11):
Okay, scott, I'm going to tell you this and I'm
sure my agent is going to berolling here.
So I've never seen GilmoreGirls and all the time people
are like what are you doing?
I was probably writing.
People are like this is likestars hollow.
This is stars hollow and I keepit's on my list.
Scott, I will watch it.
I swear when my kid is like ateen, but I get that all the
(16:32):
time and I'm so flattered by it.
I've never seen an episode.
Scott (16:35):
I can't even close my mouth.
I can't even close my mouth.
I'm shocked.
Jessica Martin (16:38):
I will, though.
I will, though, because I lovethose two actresses.
I would love to watch that show.
I'm not a huge TV watcher, I'mmore of a sports fan.
I'm like a socks fan and aPatriots fan, so, like, when I
watch TV, it's usually sports.
Scott (16:48):
Well, I didn't watch it when it first came out.
I like I might have caught iton lifetime, but I watched every
episode.
Fantastic.
But yeah, I mean it's.
You know these characters seemso developed and you've got like
little offshoots going indifferent directions.
You know you've got materialfor multi story involvement.
Jessica Martin (17:04):
Yes, yes, the Anselary Care, I think when
you're writing Rom Carm orreading it and this is I went to
Rom Carm from sci-fi what Ilove about sci-fi is the world
building.
I love, like, the universe, thelands, like I think about my
two favorite authors, jimButcher, sean McGuire.
They have written the you know,wizard in Chicago, private Eye
in San Francisco dozens of booksand just you fall in love with
the Anselary characters.
(17:25):
You want to know what happensto them, like in the offseason,
when you're waiting 11 monthsfor that book, you're like I
wonder what they're doing rightnow.
That is what I love aboutsci-fi and I've tried to keep
that in with the Rom Carm, thissmall town vibe where you fall
in love with the characters, butnot just the main ones, but
sort of the Anselary ones, andthey grow with you.
Scott (17:43):
So is this going to be a side profession for the long
term, or what's your ultimategoal?
What would you like to havehappen?
Jessica Martin (17:52):
I want to keep writing books.
I have a couple other projectsnon Shakespearean projects in
the tank that I'm hoping youknow that we see.
Sometime we'll see the light ofday.
But I do love being a lawyerand apparently I'm stuck being a
parent until MS-18.
So I think that will thatwriting will have to stay the
side gig unless I hit the youknow New York Times list and
(18:12):
then I'll come back on the showScott.
We'll dish about that.
Scott (18:15):
Oh, my God that'd be awesome that would be awesome.
I get downloads like crazy.
I'd be so excited.
I'll do my best.
You know I might have braggedon one of my previous episodes,
but I'm pretty popular globallynow.
Excellent, I have sevendownloads from Zambia.
Zambia, I believe it's acountry in Africa.
I'm not 100% sure, but sevenyes.
Jessica Martin (18:35):
We should check that.
I mean, you have a fan basegrowing now.
We should definitely check that.
Scott (18:38):
Yes, I'll take this time to say hi to my fans out in
Zambia.
Hi, Zambianians.
Zambianians, Well, yeah, Zambia.
A couple downloads from Tokyo,the Philippines.
I got one from Thailand.
I think it's just like oneperson circumnavigating the
globe.
Jessica Martin (18:56):
Hey, I'm just going to show you some short
here.
Yeah, this is so interesting.
It's cool that you can seewhere they're from too.
I think that's so interesting.
You're like oh, I'm buildinglike a global network here.
Scott (19:05):
Yeah, yeah, you can't see like you know who from you know
an IP standpoint, you just seejust general cities.
But yeah, like Zambia is likeit's, I'm pretty huge.
I'm like the David Hasselhoffof Zambia.
Jessica Martin (19:15):
Oh, that is a great reference.
Excellent, that's what I willthink of when I think of you now
, scott, the David Hasselhoff ohno, I'm going to think of it as
podcasts.
I'm going big here, so you canbe the David, you can be the
half of a podcast here.
Scott (19:28):
Yeah, gosh, I was like passed out on the floor
Reference some of the kids outthere won't get, but so you've
got these other things in thetank Are they rom-com, or are
they different genres?
Jessica Martin (19:41):
Yeah, so they're different genres still in the
rom-com, but one would bespeculative fiction and so
people always like glaze overand you say that, but basically
it's taking a sci-fi element ora supernatural element and
dropping it into a rom-com.
The ones that people are reallyfamiliar with are sort of
witchy, paranormal rom-coms orhow to date your werewolf and
those kind of things, and Iactually find those very fun to
(20:04):
read.
I love me a good.
It's a vampire, it's a werewolf, it's a witch.
I love those stories.
So I've got one of those in thetank.
And the speculative fiction isa little bit more a cerebral,
dealing with sort of theafterlife and seeing if there's
something there that will stick.
But would love to write moreBard books and I have a couple,
as I said, a couple of otherideas.
(20:24):
But it's always interesting tosort of see what the publishing
trends are and what yourpublishing house will buy from
you.
Scott (20:30):
So what do you have time to write?
Do you just set time aside ordo you just all of a sudden
you're like I gotta go right now?
I?
Have something I need to putdown on paper.
Jessica Martin (20:37):
Yeah, it's definitely not like IBS.
I'm definitely a planner.
Yeah, you have to be.
You have to like stay intact,and I actually find it very
helpful to have deadlines.
So I know, if I have somethingto do with my editor, I will
work back and plot from there.
What I don't plan is sort ofthe spontaneous writing oh my
(20:58):
gosh, I just gotta get it down.
That's a lot more spontaneous.
But editing I will meticulouslyplan out because I like to edit
and sort of I'm super OCD.
We're talking about how youedit podcasts.
I edit mine in like chunks ofthree chapters because I want to
be consistent and once I gotthree, then I go three plus
three and then three plus nineand I like it to be consistent
throughout.
So you know the editing is Itry to be more meticulous and
(21:20):
methodical about that and that'sjust do that primarily at night
.
There's an entire culture ofwriters who get up and there's
the 5am writing club and Icannot think of anything other
than exercising.
I would like to do less at fivein the morning.
I just I can't think ofanything.
I'm like wow, I'm so impressedby people who can do that, but
I'm a night owl and I'mdefinitely like a weekend writer
(21:42):
.
I will skip chores, you know,skip all the fun stuff at home,
and I will.
I will write my own edit.
Scott (21:48):
So what is the editing process kind of look like?
Jessica Martin (21:51):
How do you?
Scott (21:51):
edit, or what are you looking for when you edit?
Jessica Martin (21:53):
Oh, it's a lot of self doubt.
I use that terrible softwareand word and I actually read
every chapter out loud.
I have the female sort ofrobotic voice, because for me,
and particularly in romcoms,it's getting the dialogue right
and you're listening to it beinglike, oh, it's perfect.
You're like, oh, nobody in theright mind actually talks like
that.
So like hit, pause, clean it up.
(22:15):
And then it's sort of it's alsoa logistical thing of like if
you said this in the lastchapter but it's different, in
chapter eight you got a problemso you got to be careful, I
think, on logistics.
So it's the continuity piece,it's pacing, it's making sure
your characters are staying intheir characters and not taking
on other character attributes.
So it's really that like crispsort of cleaning process and
(22:37):
that audio I'm waiting for.
The neighbor Microsoft Wordlike decides to hire, like a
Clooney or Julia Roberts orsomebody established, and they
do the voice like I would payextra for that.
Scott (22:47):
Maybe I could pull that off Now I could.
Jessica Martin (22:49):
I would download that better than the Zion or
Zaya, whatever it is onMicrosoft Word.
It's atrocious, but it's sohelpful to hear it.
You catch more mistakes thatway.
Scott (22:58):
Yeah, have you caught something that was you know from
a continuity standpoint?
Have you caught something youknow, listening to it, that you
were like wait a minute, I justcould have sworn.
I heard that.
Jessica Martin (23:07):
Oh yes.
Or at one point I was referringto, like the bakery is the
coffee shop and I was like thiswill not do.
It did not morph into a coffee,oh yeah.
Scott (23:14):
Because you think about.
Jessica Martin (23:15):
You're writing over like a nine month span,
like things are going to getmessed up.
So I keep notes too, of like,if you said the characters eyes
were icy, then they're notRobin's egg blue, right, because
that's more rewarding flavor.
So it's trying to keep thatstuff.
And then, when you know, when Ipicked up the second book, I
went back and read all my noteson the first book to make sure
that I did not contradictanything I had said in the first
(23:37):
book and the second book.
You know, I think from doingthe podcast.
Scott (23:40):
I think that that folks appreciate that the editing that
goes on behind the scenes somuch more than they realize.
You know we were talkingearlier about like from my
standpoint of editing.
And when I edit I'm pulling umsand ahs and that stuff kind of
out because I don't want tolisten to them.
I know other people probablydon't want to, but that's how
people talk um, um, right there.
(24:02):
But it shortens and condensesthe ideas.
It's a lot easier to grasp thewhole story when you're not
listening to a mom all the timeand it's probably the same thing
when you know you're goingthrough and meticulously pulling
stuff out and putting stuff inafter the fact.
Jessica Martin (24:17):
Yes, definitely.
And then you get to this yousend it to your editor.
So you're, my agent will oftenedit, my editor will edit.
In your editing house you havethis gloriously anal, retentive
copywriter who you never meet.
They prefer to stay anonymousand they go through your book
and they may say something likethis subway station you
mentioned does not exist.
Did you mean this?
(24:37):
You know you're referencingsomething they're like well,
Ravens weren't really prevalentin the Northeast in the 1850s.
Like perhaps you meant thecommon man guy.
Scott (24:45):
Oh, my God it is so great .
Jessica Martin (24:47):
I feel like there's a book to be written
about copy editors.
They are the people who saveyour book.
Or if it's four pm on one pageand they're like I'm sorry, it's
now 2 pm in the next page, theywill catch stuff you miss.
So they are my favorite people,but very secluded in mystery in
this whole process.
Wow.
Scott (25:03):
So what are the stages?
So you're writing, you have toturn over, you know, x amount of
pages or X amount of chaptersto your, your agent or your
editor.
How does that whole processwork?
Jessica Martin (25:11):
Yeah, it's usually drafts.
So it's your, you know, finaldraft, a polished draft.
Then you get your editorialdraft.
You get comments back, then youget your copy, copy editing,
sort of your final they call itthe final manuscript setting.
So it's your last shot toreally go back and read it all
together.
So by the time you've, you know, reviewed it, you're really,
really sick of every word.
(25:31):
You've written every singleword.
Everything that like sparkledfor you in the beginning you
were tired of.
That's great.
That's not how you know you'redone.
Scott (25:38):
First book comes out 2022 .
Second book comes out 2023.
Did you just blow through that,like you were like I know
exactly what I'm going to write,I know exactly, and you just
flew right through that one toget it to the press.
Jessica Martin (25:49):
Yes, I mean I had so much more of an idea
because once that first book isout it almost like it wrote the
second book.
And also you know you have yourwhole outline to your agent and
to your editor and they weighin.
So you're like, yeah, this isthe plot, I want, this is the
storyline, I want this is theplot.
So it goes so much faster.
And just that confidence of,okay, that first book is out in
(26:09):
the world and you haven't beenlaughed out of sort of every
book story you've been in, so itjust feels that vote of
confidence to like get thesecond one out.
It was so much easier.
Scott (26:17):
How many bookstores have you been in?
Jessica Martin (26:19):
Oh man, I don't even know how to quantify that,
because I'm a book nerd.
I've been in a lot ofbookstores, Scott.
Scott (26:25):
Well, how many?
All right, let me be morespecific.
How many bookstores have youbeen in to do readings, or to
pitch, or to do any sort ofmarketing for your?
Jessica Martin (26:34):
Maybe a dozen, which I know it doesn't
marketing to.
I mean, I visited.
So I visited close to 30bookstores for my first book to
get the word out.
So I and I've done signings.
I'm doing a book club at one.
Book clubs are another trippything that you can do at
bookstores.
You can do in people's homesand are super fun.
But yeah, I go to a lot ofbookstores just to kind of pound
(26:56):
the pavement, especially when Iwas a debut, to be like hey,
I'm a local author, I'm runningShakespeare and Rome.
Comes, here's my postcard andlike my contact info.
So I think it's important, likeyou, go see your indie
bookstores.
I have huge amount of what I'veworked in indie bookstores and
I've worked at Barnes and Nobleand I have loves for both of
them.
I don't play favorites books orbooks for me, anything that has
a book in the window.
(27:17):
I will go in and see if theyhave my book and then offer to
sign it.
Like the first couple of daysmust be so embarrassing.
You go in there and there'sthis like 18 year old booksell
and you're like hey, that's mybook on the shelf.
Would you like me to sign it?
I'm the author.
And then you show them the backcover where my face is, as if
some random person would try tosign a book that is not theirs,
but it just it always feltlegitimate to be like that's me,
(27:37):
so now I don't do that.
A lot more chill and I was in.
My first book came out, butyeah, it was just a big moment
for me.
You see your book in print.
Scott (27:46):
Absolutely is Absolutely.
Do you ever go into bookstoresand just randomly sign some
books?
Jessica Martin (27:51):
My books yeah.
Scott (27:54):
Yeah Well, yeah, sometimes I like to go into the
bookstore and sign the Bible.
Jessica Martin (27:57):
That's right.
I mean, surprise, I had booksor like the crossword puzzles or
like sign them, love, love,mark.
Yeah, no, normally I announcemyself because I just want to
make sure they would like you tosign the books.
But most people are like verysweet about it and then I
usually stick like stick asticker on it, like ooh, signed
by the author.
And I always wonder if thatactually encourages people to
buy books or not, because Icertainly don't pick books based
(28:19):
on whether somebody signed themor not.
But you know, maybe it's cool.
Scott (28:21):
I would buy a book that was signed by the author.
Yeah, because you're getting itfor the same price.
It's like free autograph.
Jessica Martin (28:26):
Yeah, I wouldn't buy the plain one sitting next
to it.
I would take the autograph copy, but I don't know that I would
go into it.
If someone was like, oh, wehave all these signed copies of
like fourth wing right, thatbook that's everybody's reading
right now, I don't know if Iwould go in and get one.
I don't know if I would makelike a separate trip for it, but
if it was there I would tellyou that.
Scott (28:40):
Yeah, I would be worried also about autographing the book
and like screwing up my name,missing a letter or something.
Jessica Martin (28:46):
That's right Recursive and you just kind of
get like right early about it.
Scott (28:51):
Sometimes I forget to cross my t's.
It's weird.
Jessica Martin (28:53):
It's when people spell names for me.
They're like, oh, can you makeit out to like Samantha?
And there's an effinite.
You're like, oh my God, couldyou just spell that for me?
That's that's.
What's hard is that you'regoing to mess up somebody's
dedication.
But yeah, I do really get myname right.
It's the dedication thatfrighten me sometimes.
I want to sign some stuff.
Scott (29:11):
I'm looking around my little studio here and see what
I can sign.
Jessica Martin (29:15):
Sign.
Scott (29:16):
Yeah, so you mentioned that your husband has not read
your books.
Jessica Martin (29:19):
Yes, oh, he's going to hate this podcast.
Scott (29:21):
God, I just can't get that out of my head.
I'm only doing it because Iknow I think it's funny to just
keep grinding it in.
We'll have everybody likecomment on oh yeah, I don't know
why you wouldn't read the book.
Jessica Martin (29:31):
Yeah, oh yeah, we're going to, we're going to
out him right here.
What better way to do it, scott, yeah, yeah, I assume your
daughter obviously has not readthe book.
Scott (29:39):
But what does your daughter think of this whole?
Jessica Martin (29:40):
thing.
She thinks my books are veryboring because they don't have
pictures in them.
Well, obviously she's in agraphic novel stage.
Yeah, graphic novels, by theway, are so much cooler than
when we were kids.
Yeah, and she is in thisgraphic novel stage.
So if it does not have likevibrant pictures, she has no
time for it.
She's like who writes pictureswithout books and who reads
these?
I said adult adults.
But maybe someday she'll get akick out of it.
Scott (30:01):
That's awesome.
Yeah, I mean, that's just justa cool thing to have the book
like in the house and she seesit and she's like, wow, mommy
did that.
That's an awesome, awesomething.
Jessica Martin (30:08):
Can I tell you what the coolest part of this
whole experience has been?
I love talking about this.
So my biggest day as an authorwhen it was like real was when
they sent me the audition tapesfor the narrator.
I'm a huge audible person, likean audio person.
Scott (30:20):
Oh yeah.
Jessica Martin (30:20):
And it was so cool to get a vote.
Like Penguin sends you allthese like samples and I got to
weigh in, I got to have a voteand they went with the woman
that I picked and she's anactress, she's out in California
, she's doing the second book.
It was wild because then youhear your book and you're like,
wow, I wrote that.
So when people ask me like youknow what's the coolest part of
this?
The close second is getting tolike have a vote on your cover.
(30:43):
But for me, my first love wasgetting to hear who would read
it, so that's been my coolestpart.
Scott (30:49):
But when you think of that concept, like someone is
being paid to read the wordsthat you wrote, that you got
paid for I know it's a systemicjust keeps perpetuating.
Jessica Martin (30:57):
We're paying in everybody crazy.
Scott (31:00):
Well, you mentioned the book covers.
How does that process work,whether it were book covers
chosen and who creates them?
Jessica Martin (31:06):
And so they had picked out an artist that they
were super jazzed about.
Her name is Flora Fuentes andshe is incredible.
She's a designer.
She's a graphic designer out ofBuenos Aires and I just was.
I was her first book cover andI was so honored because they
asked they gave her the book.
And then they asked me to sortof suggest if I had any thoughts
about the cover at a couple,but none of them very good, and
(31:26):
she just brought them to lifeand I thought, oh, my goodness,
this is what they look like.
So I begged and pleaded thatshe would do the second cover
and I just love them.
They're really vibrant, they'rereally fun.
I love the colors, but I'm notartistically inclined that way.
So the cover thing was moreintimidating.
I'm so glad she's so talented.
She figured it out.
The Audible narrator was moreat my alley, which was like I
like to listen to books, so Ifelt like more of a voice and I
(31:50):
like to stand on there to belike I love this person.
Scott (31:53):
I'm looking at both books now and I like the way that she
kind of color flipped them.
That's a really cool thingbecause it shows that
connectivity and very coolconcept.
I like that.
Jessica Martin (32:03):
Yeah, I love them.
Scott (32:04):
So, jess, when I did my podcast research and I put into
Google Jessica Martin, author,it also Google gives you
suggestions.
Oh and yes, I don't know ifyou've seen this and it says
people also have searched forand look at the company you're
in Nora Roberts, whoa, danielleSteele, bk Bunsen I have no idea
(32:26):
who that is.
Who is?
Jessica Martin (32:27):
BK Bunsen, I will look this up.
Scott (32:30):
But Danielle Steele, whoa and Ellie Everhart.
Let's see what BK Bunsen hasdone.
Oh well, she's an Amazonbestselling author, so right
there.
Oh, she's done some competitiveromcom books as well.
Oh, you can't really see it inmy point of flip around.
But yeah, she's done some otherbooks, but they obviously are
not anywhere near yours, sowe'll get rid of her.
Jessica Martin (32:49):
That's so fun, so I don't.
I subscribe to be like.
I don't Google myself.
I never go on Goodreads to seewhat Goodreads is like a savage
place, really.
Yeah, I set up Google alertsand I you know I mostly find
like my diehard fans are onInstagram.
So like I will search thehashtag of the title and people
like people do great stuff onInstagram with your book.
(33:09):
They like pose it on the beachand like with, like beads and
coffee and tea and you're likethat is gorgeous.
Scott (33:14):
It's awesome.
Jessica Martin (33:15):
And sometimes they read the book or sometimes
they're just people kind of workwith covers, they're like
visual artists.
So I absolutely love that.
But yeah, I generally stay offthe internet.
I stay off the reviews.
I generally wait for my agentto tell me if it's a good review
or not.
They generally criticallythey've done pretty well.
But yeah, it's just, it's yourwriting.
You can feel kind of likeprotective of it.
So I just their places, theirdark places on the internet I
(33:36):
tend to stay out of.
Scott (33:37):
So I'm on Goodreads right now.
Yeah, I don't mean to put youon the spot.
Can I read one of the reviewsthat it's?
Jessica Martin (33:42):
Yes, only with the good ones.
If it's like I wish, thepuppies would drown in this one
and then don't read those ones.
The puppies would drown.
Scott (33:47):
Oh good Lord.
Oh Puck, that's the name of thepuppy, not not?
Well, you obviously don't.
But for the listeners, it's notthat I didn't want to say fuck,
because I could say it's mypodcast, I'll say whatever.
Jessica Martin (33:57):
Oh yeah, no, Puck is in the first, puck, yeah
, puck in the first, fuckingHamlet in the second.
Scott (34:02):
So this is Jessica's writing flows brilliantly.
It just feels she's writingfrom a place where her husband
hasn't read both books yet.
Jessica Martin (34:10):
Oh, wonderful.
Scott (34:12):
I'm gonna frame that one.
Jessica Martin (34:13):
Yeah, she writes uninhibited as if her husband
isn't watching.
Scott (34:17):
I want to check that one out.
Jessica Martin (34:21):
Oh man, what are you going to call?
I feel like we have to somehowtitle this episode.
Gourby doesn't read rom-toms,or something fun.
Scott (34:28):
So here's the thing on my podcast.
So they just convert, they justchange over to AI, which scares
the shit out of me.
Like somehow I feel thatbecause I'm having AI do my
podcast synopsis, that it'sgoing to trigger World War Three
.
I feel like I'm going to bepart of it.
I don't.
Oh, I see.
Yeah, it kind of cruncheseverything and if you keep
harping on a subject it may pickit up.
(34:48):
So if it does become one of thetitle suggestions, I'll let you
know.
Jessica Martin (34:52):
Oh yeah, absolutely I'm not going to be
the friend discount and you cansort of work it into a title
because that will be immortaland legend in our house.
Scott (34:59):
So yeah, I'll screenshot it and you can make it your
background on Facebook.
Excellent.
Well, Jess, this has beenawesome.
Thank you so much for takingthe time out of your insanely
busy schedule as a lawyer, mom,wife, world bestselling author
to sit down and chat with metoday.
Jessica Martin (35:14):
Well, thank you, Scott.
This was so fun.
I really enjoyed it.
Thanks for having me.
Scott (35:17):
Where can people buy the books?
Jessica Martin (35:19):
You can buy books wherever they are sold.
Support your local indie.
Go into a Barnes and Noble, goon Amazon Anywhere you can
access books, gay for you, oryour library.
I used to be a teacher's aidlibrary and I am a huge promoter
of your local library and a lotof libraries have it.
So go find it.
And you can find me onInstagram at C Jess write books
You're a creative.
And you can find me at JessicaMartin bookscom.
Scott (35:40):
Awesome.
I'll put those both the shownotes.
Folks, if you are all mylisteners in Zambia, amazon will
deliver to you.
We'll get it there.
But everybody, please checkthese books out.
They sound amazing.
I can't wait to check them outmyself.
I have massive ADD and it'sreally hard to read a full book,
but maybe I will just get theaudio book right.
Jessica Martin (35:56):
You can listen to it, yes, but not with your
daughter in the car.
Oh, okay.
Scott (36:00):
Oops, oops, honey, earmuffs, quick, quick.
Jessica Martin (36:05):
It is a romcom and like 90% of it is family
friendly and then 10% of it isnot.
You'll figure it out.
Scott (36:11):
We'll get there.
We'll get there.
But, yeah, thank you again fortaking the time.
This has been great.
Everybody, please go check outall her social media stuff and
pick up both books for the loveof the Bard, and the second one,
the even more salacious.
I think that, yeah, definitelyIs it salacious, even the more
salacious one the day of myexistence.
Thanks again, this has beenfantastic.
I wish you the best of luck.
(36:32):
Thanks, I can't wait topossibly see these on screen as
well, but we'll see.
Jessica Martin (36:37):
We'll see, we'll see what the future holds, and
I don't recall.
Scott (36:39):
I did a fair amount of acting.
So you know, if you've got someclout and there's an old crabby
man in your books, I'm your man.
Well, thanks, scott, take care.
Thank you so much, thank you.
Jessica Martin (36:51):
I mean, you look official, so you're in.
Scott (36:53):
I'm going to let you know a little secret these
headphones aren't even pluggedin.
Not even plugged in, excellent,just for effect, just for show.
No, they're plugged in.
And a guest today is Jessica Martin.
She's a lawyer by trade, awriter by choice and a complete
smartass.
By all other accounts that's aself-described complete smartass
, not my words.
Based in the suburban wilds ofBoston, jess shares her life
with a finance geek, smallsass-based human and a pair of
dogs named after James Bondcharacters.
She is currently an amazingauthor who has now put out her
(00:22):
second book, and we're psychedto have her here.
Jessica Martin, welcome toCardi Saves the World.
Well thank you, happy to be here.
Thank you so much for coming.
So you are like an author.
That's crazy.
Jessica Martin (00:33):
I'm like an author and like an attorney,
both of us.
Scott (00:36):
Every attorney I know has like just a crazy life which
I'm sure you do right Just likecrazy lost stuff going on, and
then you have time to writebooks and you're a mom.
Jessica Martin (00:44):
And I'm a mom.
I'm a girl mom and you as agirl dad, I'm sure understand
what it's like.
Oh yeah, of the drama and sassthat comes along with being a
girl mom or a girl dad.
Scott (00:52):
It's brutal, brutal.
Jessica Martin (00:54):
It's great.
It's good practice for underteens.
How old?
How old is your daughter now?
Seven and a half.
Scott (01:00):
Seven and a half.
Okay, so I have a six and ahalf and yeah there's just, it's
a whole.
It's incredible.
So I had I don't know if thisis gonna make the podcast, but
I'll tell you the story so afriend of mine came down and we
went during the day.
We went to a couple breweries Imean Wilmington, and Wilmington
has a lot of breweries my wifedrove and my daughter was in the
back seat.
Well, yeah, I had a couplebeers and I had my phone out and
(01:20):
I was taking like selfie videowhen I was winking at her and
she's just like giving me theeye, just stopped winking at her
and she just picked her noseand wiped it on my back.
Jessica Martin (01:30):
I think that should probably be in the
podcast.
Yeah, all right, like wait,shut things down.
Scott (01:35):
So what did you do that for?
She's like stop recording meand stop making fun of me.
Wow.
Jessica Martin (01:42):
I mean, you can't argue with her methods.
Scott (01:44):
They were swift and effective, and you know I had
had a couple beers of me, so Iget it, you know.
So so you're also a lawyer.
And what was the genesis ofbecoming an author on top of
your already crazy life?
Jessica Martin (01:56):
Yeah, so I've been a writer my whole life.
It started in the fifth grade.
There was a ghost writingspooky contest and the prize was
this pumpkin, and I was likeI'm here for it.
So I wrote my first, my firstspooky tale as a fifth grader.
I won that pumpkin.
Scott (02:11):
Actually.
Jessica Martin (02:12):
And then I went on to thank you.
I went on to write all throughmiddle school, high school.
In college I minored increative writing.
It's partially why I chose myschool is that they had a really
good creative writing program.
And then when I got out ofschool I realized like two
things.
One, writing is really hardwhen you're learning writing
throughout the year, so youteach you how to write these
beautifully contained shortstories.
(02:33):
Nobody teaches you how to writea novel or how to stick with it
or how to get a hundredthousand words down on the page,
and it doesn't make any money.
So I spent my.
I spent my 20s and 30s writingon the side.
But I decided to go to lawschool because I am a contract
negotiator by trade.
I love writing, I lovenegotiating.
So every day I writetechnically for my job and it's
(02:53):
always nice to kind of switchbetween the two, like turning it
off and putting on sort of acreative lens, and then you know
, turning that off and gettingback into being technical.
So I write all the time and Iwrote sci-fi.
I wrote sci-fi fiction forabout six, seven years, yeah,
and I was getting all theselovely rejection letters which
were like we love your writing,but it's a tight market.
We can't sell it.
(03:14):
And at some point this otheridea started to percolate and I
thought how hard could it be towrite a rom-com?
The answer is it's challenging.
Right Switching from genre togenre?
Scott (03:22):
I would think so.
Jessica Martin (03:23):
I have utmost respect for rom-com writers.
Right and miraculously, youknow, I finished this book.
I couldn't believe how quicklyI finished this book and I
started editing it.
And then I like to tell peopleI'm the only person on the
planet that ever found theiragent via a Twitter pitch.
They used to have thesepre-COVID would have these
Twitter pitch contests and youwould pitch your book in
whatever 146 characters,whatever it is, and it was a
(03:45):
very last like pitching slot ofthe day and I was like you know,
I'm gonna go for it.
I want to go for it on this.
And that's how I found my agent, maggie.
She's in Boston and we got intouch through the Twitter
contest and, you know, aboutthree weeks later she'd read the
whole thing and she said I'mgonna sell this in the next six
months.
Scott (04:00):
Really.
Jessica Martin (04:01):
I was like, oh okay, maggie, and she did.
She sold it to Penguin in sixmonths.
So it was a whirlwind to havewritten your whole life and had
no success, limited success.
And then all of a sudden, youknow you meet the right person,
they open a door for you andyou're on your way to getting a
book published.
Scott (04:15):
That's amazing.
That's a lot.
So you said it didn't take youthat long to write what's not
long look like.
Jessica Martin (04:20):
Yeah, about nine months.
Soup to nuts on sort of thewriting and the first couple
passes of editing.
I'm a sort of avometer of words, like I just I get everything
out there and then you read themand you're like that is
something.
So you go back and you edit itand I spent a lot more time in
the editing phase.
So I would say you know aboutnine to 11 months and then I
(04:41):
polished some more.
When I met Maggie we did acouple more rounds.
So maybe call it 12 to 13months to get it and then you do
more editing with your editor.
How do you're editing House ofNew York, mine's Penguin?
So I would say 15, let's say 15months all in between their
different iterations, but mostof that was editing.
Scott (04:58):
That's amazing and I'm sorry I failed to mention the
name of the first book is Forthe Love of a Bard.
Yes, and so that came out in2022?
Jessica Martin (05:06):
Yes, in June it was a summer release of Beatrice
.
Scott (05:09):
And then you have a sequel to it that comes out in
2023?
.
Jessica Martin (05:13):
Crazy.
It's out, scott.
It was out on the 4th of Julyand it's called the Dane of my
Existence.
We're keeping with theShakespearean puns here.
Yes, so that one came out, andit was nice to finally be a
sophomore.
When your debut goes, you haveno idea what to expect.
You talk to your writer friends.
So going through the second onewas so much easier.
It was just so much chiller.
I knew what was coming.
I knew what to expect.
(05:33):
It was great.
Scott (05:34):
It's awesome.
So can you give just a slightsynopsis for the listeners?
I guess both books, but breakone.
Break the mech down.
Jessica Martin (05:42):
Absolutely so, for the Love of the Bard is the
first in the series, and when Icame up with this idea for a
rom-com, I started with a place,and I grew up in Massachusetts.
I spent my summers in NewHampshire and so I started to
think about this town and thesequirky little towns that are all
over New Hampshire and Ithought what if there was a
Shakespearean obsessed one?
How fun would that be if theyhad a Shakespeare festival every
(06:02):
year?
I'm an English nerd, fulldisclosure.
So that was kind of nerdy andfun.
And then I started to think,well, can't just be a
Shakespeare festival, right,they've got to be all in on
Shakespeare.
So maybe they have goofy littlestorefront names like measure
for measure hardware or partingsuch sweet gelato.
So then I really started tohave some fun with this town.
Once I had the town I startedto populate it and I decided I
(06:24):
was going to try to write atrilogy, because rom-coms
they're great when they sort ofcarry on a couple in the series.
It's one of my favorite thingsabout rom-coms.
So the first sister is MirandaBarnes.
She is a literary agent and awriter, and she's the middle
sister.
She's the peacekeeper.
She's incredibly snarky despitethat.
But she is sort of sandwichedbetween these two larger than
(06:45):
life personalities.
So the first book is reallyabout her.
She's coming home, she meets anold ex-flame who's now the town
veterinarian, and you know he'snot living in his mom's
basement.
He is a good-looking dude,saves puppies for a living, and
so really that first right, whodoesn't want a man who saves
puppies for a living?
So really that first book isabout them sort of getting over
(07:05):
there not so great past and theywork together to put on this
production of 12th night for thefestival.
So that's the first book.
And then the second book isPortia.
And Portia is the eldest barnsister and she hates the town In
a way.
Miranda loves Shakespeare.
Portia has never understood thehype about Shakespeare,
absolutely looks down onShakespeare and just so happened
(07:27):
she gets this new lawyer gig.
Portia's a lawyer, no comment,and she's moving from New York
to Boston to take this job andshe's taking a summer sabbatical
.
So she comes home to the townfish out of water, doesn't
really know what to do withherself, and then quickly
becomes embroiled.
There's a real estate developerin town and he's sniffing
around the town's best propertyand, lo and behold, the town
(07:48):
doesn't own it, like everybodythought.
So it sets up this nice battles, enemies to lovers sort of the
trope that they talk about.
But really I think it's rivals,rivals to lovers, these two
very corporatey personalitiessquare enough for the future of
the town.
And what I like about it isPortia is really a villain in
the first book and in thissecond book she's the hero.
So I thought that was reallyfun writing Somebody you didn't
(08:11):
care for in the first book youreally rooted against.
Now all of a sudden you're likeah, that's a bad.
So that is the premise of thefirst and the second book.
Scott (08:19):
So when you started writing the first book, did you
have a second book in mind, orwas the?
Did that kind of comeorganically later on?
Jessica Martin (08:26):
I had them all planned out from the beginning
Three sisters, three books and Istarted to think about side
characters.
So I knew, when I was writingPortia as the villain in the
first book, that she would be mystarring lady in the second
book.
So I knew that and I knew just,I was gonna no hold back, I was
gonna make her unlikable andthen I was gonna flip the tables
on you, which is exactly what Idid in the second book.
Scott (08:46):
So you have three books planned, but only two out.
I do Do tell.
Jessica Martin (08:50):
Yes, for everybody keeping score.
And finally, the youngest, theyoungest sister is Cordy
Cordelia, and she is sort of theSpitfire, firebrand.
You never know what she's gonnado.
She's gonna burn the place down, she's gonna light it up.
She is the town baker, sheworks at Much Ado About Pastry
and she is really sort of theanchor of that family.
(09:12):
But she is definitely the wildchild and she's probably the one
I identify the least with, whoI love the most but I don't
identify with because I am not awild child.
God, you've known me.
Yes, very good, veryconservative, very rule based.
Yes, cordy is none of thesethings.
So writing her story, I think,has been the most challenging.
Scott (09:28):
Wow, that's awesome.
Did you have this whole likemapped out George Lucas, star
Wars trilogy thing going on?
Yes, I like it, I like it.
So once you get a book out,then what happens?
Jessica Martin (09:40):
Yeah, then the marketing begins.
Then that's sort of the dog andpony show of marketing your
book, helping find its readers,its champions.
You do a lot of podcasts.
You do some book signings Notas much as you think, I think.
You get a lot more traction nowonline, so you build a social
platform.
I'm very active on Instagram.
Scott (10:01):
Yes.
Jessica Martin (10:01):
I've not done the TikTok, I have not put my
toe on the TikTok.
Scott (10:04):
I have it either.
I'm scared.
I'm scared, I'm not there.
Jessica Martin (10:09):
But yeah, you do those things to find your
reader, but Instagram, facebook,facebook sells a lot of books.
I found it for my marketingteam of two at Penguin, and
Facebook sells tons of books.
It's got an algorithm Instagram, twitter.
I generally stay off Twitter.
I tend to run my mouth, soInstagram is sort of
picture-based.
Things are best for me.
Scott (10:28):
Have you done the threads no?
Jessica Martin (10:31):
No, I looked into it and I just it feels I'm
going to use the word derivative.
Scott (10:35):
Yeah, Do you thread?
I did just, you know, topromote podcasts and I was like
you know, I'm just I'm askingfor trouble, I'm going to get
mouthy and it's just, it's tooinstantaneous.
Jessica Martin (10:44):
Yes, it's too much for me, right?
Yeah, no, I'm not threading.
Scott (10:48):
Yeah, so you've done book signings.
How, how crazy is that?
Is that so people physicallycame to a building buy your book
and then wait for you tophysically sign it?
That's like I know that'spretty ego pumping right there.
Jessica Martin (11:00):
It's epic, it's also, it's also ego draining
when you go to a signing andvery few people show up.
So it's the.
It's the highs and lows ofpeople showing up or not showing
up.
But I will tell you I'm alifelong reader and I can count
on the number on my one hand howmany times I've gone to a book
signing.
I just didn't know that peopledid that yeah.
So, it's great that people comeout that way, but normally you
(11:20):
try to make it good for them.
You bring some bookmarks andswag and then you do a reading
and people seem to really likethat.
Scott (11:26):
That's yeah, that's interesting.
I'm sure it could turn out likeit could be just genuine fans
that are just awesome and justsupportive and want to just show
their face.
And then you might get like doyou think you get any?
Like, uh, hecklers.
But I was thinking more likeyou know, dorks that are like
following you around, like toevery single book signing.
Do you have a wish?
I wish.
Jessica Martin (11:43):
That would be fun.
In the book, everybody whoworks at Shakespeare is called a
bardolator, and so I don't havemany bardolators.
I get a lot of fun questions.
I mean it's amazing what peoplewill ask out in public of you,
but I've gotten pretty seasoned.
At this point that no questionis surprising.
But everyone said I'm like, oh,all right, that's cool.
Um, yeah, so no question seemsto be a whole part.
(12:05):
But what everybody always wantsto know is you know, is Adam in
the main characters?
Are they real?
Did you base them on people?
Um, that's the big one I get,yeah, and then the other one I
get is how hard was it to writethe sex scene?
I get that one all the time.
Scott (12:19):
Goodness gracious.
Jessica Martin (12:19):
Goodness gracious is right, and I wrote
an article for writer's digeston it called how to write a sex
scene like nobody is watching.
Um, so I will send you the linkto that.
It's very tongue in cheek.
Yes, yeah, that's part of theshow notes.
Yes, that's part of theexpectation is that you you
write one Right.
Most rom-coms have them.
Yeah, unless you're sort of inthe like a Christian genre, most
of them have them.
So that was very nerve-wrackingto look anybody who'd read it
(12:42):
in the eye after that.
And then I just got used to it.
You get used to it, scott.
Scott (12:48):
I am very good friends with your husband, justin.
Yes, and I'm assuming that hehas read these books.
What was his take on the scenes?
Jessica Martin (12:55):
You know what I'm gonna out him right now?
He has not read any of my books.
Scott (12:59):
Shut up, I know, are you?
Jessica Martin (13:00):
serious.
Oh, I'm so cathartic.
Gourby is not much of a reader,but I will say what he is so
supportive of is part of thereason I can write these books
is because we are like zoneparents, because he will take M
for like four hours so I can,and then I'll pile it in and
I'll take M so he can go off andrelax, and then we come
together and do family night.
So I don't think I could writeas quickly as I do or as much as
(13:21):
I do if I didn't sort of havethat kind of supportive partner.
Scott (13:23):
Oh, that's good.
Okay, but wow, he didn't readlike he didn't read them, but he
checks.
Jessica Martin (13:28):
He checks to make sure he's in the
dedications and theacknowledgement.
I'm like who are you?
Scott (13:35):
That's when that one's tough.
I mean, I dropped my firstepisode.
I like physically stood andwatched my wife download it.
I was like you, better hit thatlittle arrow down Now now.
Jessica Martin (13:45):
I mean she talked into it, though she
talked to you to do it.
I mean she should, she shoulddefinitely bear witness.
Yeah, yeah.
Scott (13:50):
Well, she also technically named it for make a
fun of me for being, orattempting to be, smarter than
everybody.
Jessica Martin (13:55):
Well, I like the name of it.
I think it's brilliant.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
Scott (13:59):
You talk about the questions.
Do you have any crazy questionsthat you can tell us that
aren't like dirty ones?
Jessica Martin (14:03):
No, not like foul or dirty.
Most of them around the sexscene.
You know like people giggle now, like I just did.
People just want to know ifthey're real or like.
They go character by character.
They're like is Miranda real?
Is the dog real?
There's always going to be adog in my book, so people want
to know if Puck and Hamlet arereal.
So they're loosely based on myrescue dog, but it's just, it's
kind of funny and it's evenbetter when my friends are in
(14:25):
the audience, because a lot ofmy characters are sort of snips
and snatches of friends and sortof make these amalgamations or
I just eavesdrop like the bestplace for me is standing in a
Starbucks behind teens man.
I pick up some of my best linesstanding behind teens and
Starbucks, but I think that's abig one.
And then people will sometimesask like oh, did you ever think
of doing this, this and thiswith the plot?
(14:45):
And then you're like no, no, Idid not.
That is actually brilliant.
So then you wonder like, can Itake that idea?
Scott (14:52):
If you like.
Oh, maybe I have to wait a fewbooks until that person forgets.
They actually mentioned it tome, Exactly.
Jessica Martin (14:57):
Yes, and then people just have a lot of
Shakespeare questions and it'sso interesting to me because
they're like oh, did you mean toembed the Shakespeare thing
here?
And a lot of the times I thinkShakespeare is just so the
Quiddus in his out there.
That like you're like, yeah,okay, I can, I can see how you
would work Shakespeare into that.
So lots of good questions, lotsof weird ones.
Scott (15:16):
It seems like there's like an actual like universe
created.
You've created this universe ofthe barred verse.
The barred verse and it soundslike the barred verse.
Admittedly, I have not readthem either yet, but I intend on
it.
It sounds like this barredverse could possibly be
translated to the screen.
Is that something that thatinterests you, funny?
Jessica Martin (15:34):
you should say that, Scott.
I'm specifically forbidden fromtalking about that.
Scott (15:39):
Okay.
Jessica Martin (15:40):
But it would be lovely someday to see barred on
the small screen or the bigscreen, and that is certainly
the hope for it.
I think it naturally lendsitself to kind of a fan base in
a universe.
It would look really good in asmall, we'll say hallmarky type
movie.
Look really good.
Scott (15:56):
You know it sounds like to me.
In the interest of fulldisclosure, I was and still am a
gigantic Gilmore Girls fan.
I don't care if anyone knows,I'm not scared.
Love it.
It sounds like a smarterjuicier.
Gilmore Girls, hometown feel.
Jessica Martin (16:11):
Okay, scott, I'm going to tell you this and I'm
sure my agent is going to berolling here.
So I've never seen GilmoreGirls and all the time people
are like what are you doing?
I was probably writing.
People are like this is likestars hollow.
This is stars hollow and I keepit's on my list.
Scott, I will watch it.
I swear when my kid is like ateen, but I get that all the
(16:32):
time and I'm so flattered by it.
I've never seen an episode.
Scott (16:35):
I can't even close my mouth.
I can't even close my mouth.
I'm shocked.
Jessica Martin (16:38):
I will, though.
I will, though, because I lovethose two actresses.
I would love to watch that show.
I'm not a huge TV watcher, I'mmore of a sports fan.
I'm like a socks fan and aPatriots fan, so, like, when I
watch TV, it's usually sports.
Scott (16:48):
Well, I didn't watch it when it first came out.
I like I might have caught iton lifetime, but I watched every
episode.
Fantastic.
But yeah, I mean it's.
You know these characters seemso developed and you've got like
little offshoots going indifferent directions.
You know you've got materialfor multi story involvement.
Jessica Martin (17:04):
Yes, yes, the Anselary Care, I think when
you're writing Rom Carm orreading it and this is I went to
Rom Carm from sci-fi what Ilove about sci-fi is the world
building.
I love, like, the universe, thelands, like I think about my
two favorite authors, jimButcher, sean McGuire.
They have written the you know,wizard in Chicago, private Eye
in San Francisco dozens of booksand just you fall in love with
the Anselary characters.
(17:25):
You want to know what happensto them, like in the offseason,
when you're waiting 11 monthsfor that book, you're like I
wonder what they're doing rightnow.
That is what I love aboutsci-fi and I've tried to keep
that in with the Rom Carm, thissmall town vibe where you fall
in love with the characters, butnot just the main ones, but
sort of the Anselary ones, andthey grow with you.
Scott (17:43):
So is this going to be a side profession for the long
term, or what's your ultimategoal?
What would you like to havehappen?
Jessica Martin (17:52):
I want to keep writing books.
I have a couple other projectsnon Shakespearean projects in
the tank that I'm hoping youknow that we see.
Sometime we'll see the light ofday.
But I do love being a lawyerand apparently I'm stuck being a
parent until MS-18.
So I think that will thatwriting will have to stay the
side gig unless I hit the youknow New York Times list and
(18:12):
then I'll come back on the showScott.
We'll dish about that.
Scott (18:15):
Oh, my God that'd be awesome that would be awesome.
I get downloads like crazy.
I'd be so excited.
I'll do my best.
You know I might have braggedon one of my previous episodes,
but I'm pretty popular globallynow.
Excellent, I have sevendownloads from Zambia.
Zambia, I believe it's acountry in Africa.
I'm not 100% sure, but sevenyes.
Jessica Martin (18:35):
We should check that.
I mean, you have a fan basegrowing now.
We should definitely check that.
Scott (18:38):
Yes, I'll take this time to say hi to my fans out in
Zambia.
Hi, Zambianians.
Zambianians, Well, yeah, Zambia.
A couple downloads from Tokyo,the Philippines.
I got one from Thailand.
I think it's just like oneperson circumnavigating the
globe.
Jessica Martin (18:56):
Hey, I'm just going to show you some short
here.
Yeah, this is so interesting.
It's cool that you can seewhere they're from too.
I think that's so interesting.
You're like oh, I'm buildinglike a global network here.
Scott (19:05):
Yeah, yeah, you can't see like you know who from you know
an IP standpoint, you just seejust general cities.
But yeah, like Zambia is likeit's, I'm pretty huge.
I'm like the David Hasselhoffof Zambia.
Jessica Martin (19:15):
Oh, that is a great reference.
Excellent, that's what I willthink of when I think of you now
, scott, the David Hasselhoff ohno, I'm going to think of it as
podcasts.
I'm going big here, so you canbe the David, you can be the
half of a podcast here.
Scott (19:28):
Yeah, gosh, I was like passed out on the floor
Reference some of the kids outthere won't get, but so you've
got these other things in thetank Are they rom-com, or are
they different genres?
Jessica Martin (19:41):
Yeah, so they're different genres still in the
rom-com, but one would bespeculative fiction and so
people always like glaze overand you say that, but basically
it's taking a sci-fi element ora supernatural element and
dropping it into a rom-com.
The ones that people are reallyfamiliar with are sort of
witchy, paranormal rom-coms orhow to date your werewolf and
those kind of things, and Iactually find those very fun to
(20:04):
read.
I love me a good.
It's a vampire, it's a werewolf, it's a witch.
I love those stories.
So I've got one of those in thetank.
And the speculative fiction isa little bit more a cerebral,
dealing with sort of theafterlife and seeing if there's
something there that will stick.
But would love to write moreBard books and I have a couple,
as I said, a couple of otherideas.
(20:24):
But it's always interesting tosort of see what the publishing
trends are and what yourpublishing house will buy from
you.
Scott (20:30):
So what do you have time to write?
Do you just set time aside ordo you just all of a sudden
you're like I gotta go right now?
I?
Have something I need to putdown on paper.
Jessica Martin (20:37):
Yeah, it's definitely not like IBS.
I'm definitely a planner.
Yeah, you have to be.
You have to like stay intact,and I actually find it very
helpful to have deadlines.
So I know, if I have somethingto do with my editor, I will
work back and plot from there.
What I don't plan is sort ofthe spontaneous writing oh my
(20:58):
gosh, I just gotta get it down.
That's a lot more spontaneous.
But editing I will meticulouslyplan out because I like to edit
and sort of I'm super OCD.
We're talking about how youedit podcasts.
I edit mine in like chunks ofthree chapters because I want to
be consistent and once I gotthree, then I go three plus
three and then three plus nineand I like it to be consistent
throughout.
So you know the editing is Itry to be more meticulous and
(21:20):
methodical about that and that'sjust do that primarily at night
.
There's an entire culture ofwriters who get up and there's
the 5am writing club and Icannot think of anything other
than exercising.
I would like to do less at fivein the morning.
I just I can't think ofanything.
I'm like wow, I'm so impressedby people who can do that, but
I'm a night owl and I'mdefinitely like a weekend writer
(21:42):
.
I will skip chores, you know,skip all the fun stuff at home,
and I will.
I will write my own edit.
Scott (21:48):
So what is the editing process kind of look like?
Jessica Martin (21:51):
How do you?
Scott (21:51):
edit, or what are you looking for when you edit?
Jessica Martin (21:53):
Oh, it's a lot of self doubt.
I use that terrible softwareand word and I actually read
every chapter out loud.
I have the female sort ofrobotic voice, because for me,
and particularly in romcoms,it's getting the dialogue right
and you're listening to it beinglike, oh, it's perfect.
You're like, oh, nobody in theright mind actually talks like
that.
So like hit, pause, clean it up.
(22:15):
And then it's sort of it's alsoa logistical thing of like if
you said this in the lastchapter but it's different, in
chapter eight you got a problemso you got to be careful, I
think, on logistics.
So it's the continuity piece,it's pacing, it's making sure
your characters are staying intheir characters and not taking
on other character attributes.
So it's really that like crispsort of cleaning process and
(22:37):
that audio I'm waiting for.
The neighbor Microsoft Wordlike decides to hire, like a
Clooney or Julia Roberts orsomebody established, and they
do the voice like I would payextra for that.
Scott (22:47):
Maybe I could pull that off Now I could.
Jessica Martin (22:49):
I would download that better than the Zion or
Zaya, whatever it is onMicrosoft Word.
It's atrocious, but it's sohelpful to hear it.
You catch more mistakes thatway.
Scott (22:58):
Yeah, have you caught something that was you know from
a continuity standpoint?
Have you caught something youknow, listening to it, that you
were like wait a minute, I justcould have sworn.
I heard that.
Jessica Martin (23:07):
Oh yes.
Or at one point I was referringto, like the bakery is the
coffee shop and I was like thiswill not do.
It did not morph into a coffee,oh yeah.
Scott (23:14):
Because you think about.
Jessica Martin (23:15):
You're writing over like a nine month span,
like things are going to getmessed up.
So I keep notes too, of like,if you said the characters eyes
were icy, then they're notRobin's egg blue, right, because
that's more rewarding flavor.
So it's trying to keep thatstuff.
And then, when you know, when Ipicked up the second book, I
went back and read all my noteson the first book to make sure
that I did not contradictanything I had said in the first
(23:37):
book and the second book.
You know, I think from doingthe podcast.
Scott (23:40):
I think that that folks appreciate that the editing that
goes on behind the scenes somuch more than they realize.
You know we were talkingearlier about like from my
standpoint of editing.
And when I edit I'm pulling umsand ahs and that stuff kind of
out because I don't want tolisten to them.
I know other people probablydon't want to, but that's how
people talk um, um, right there.
(24:02):
But it shortens and condensesthe ideas.
It's a lot easier to grasp thewhole story when you're not
listening to a mom all the timeand it's probably the same thing
when you know you're goingthrough and meticulously pulling
stuff out and putting stuff inafter the fact.
Jessica Martin (24:17):
Yes, definitely.
And then you get to this yousend it to your editor.
So you're, my agent will oftenedit, my editor will edit.
In your editing house you havethis gloriously anal, retentive
copywriter who you never meet.
They prefer to stay anonymousand they go through your book
and they may say something likethis subway station you
mentioned does not exist.
Did you mean this?
(24:37):
You know you're referencingsomething they're like well,
Ravens weren't really prevalentin the Northeast in the 1850s.
Like perhaps you meant thecommon man guy.
Scott (24:45):
Oh, my God it is so great .
Jessica Martin (24:47):
I feel like there's a book to be written
about copy editors.
They are the people who saveyour book.
Or if it's four pm on one pageand they're like I'm sorry, it's
now 2 pm in the next page, theywill catch stuff you miss.
So they are my favorite people,but very secluded in mystery in
this whole process.
Wow.
Scott (25:03):
So what are the stages?
So you're writing, you have toturn over, you know, x amount of
pages or X amount of chaptersto your, your agent or your
editor.
How does that whole processwork?
Jessica Martin (25:11):
Yeah, it's usually drafts.
So it's your, you know, finaldraft, a polished draft.
Then you get your editorialdraft.
You get comments back, then youget your copy, copy editing,
sort of your final they call itthe final manuscript setting.
So it's your last shot toreally go back and read it all
together.
So by the time you've, you know, reviewed it, you're really,
really sick of every word.
(25:31):
You've written every singleword.
Everything that like sparkledfor you in the beginning you
were tired of.
That's great.
That's not how you know you'redone.
Scott (25:38):
First book comes out 2022 .
Second book comes out 2023.
Did you just blow through that,like you were like I know
exactly what I'm going to write,I know exactly, and you just
flew right through that one toget it to the press.
Jessica Martin (25:49):
Yes, I mean I had so much more of an idea
because once that first book isout it almost like it wrote the
second book.
And also you know you have yourwhole outline to your agent and
to your editor and they weighin.
So you're like, yeah, this isthe plot, I want, this is the
storyline, I want this is theplot.
So it goes so much faster.
And just that confidence of,okay, that first book is out in
(26:09):
the world and you haven't beenlaughed out of sort of every
book story you've been in, so itjust feels that vote of
confidence to like get thesecond one out.
It was so much easier.
Scott (26:17):
How many bookstores have you been in?
Jessica Martin (26:19):
Oh man, I don't even know how to quantify that,
because I'm a book nerd.
I've been in a lot ofbookstores, Scott.
Scott (26:25):
Well, how many?
All right, let me be morespecific.
How many bookstores have youbeen in to do readings, or to
pitch, or to do any sort ofmarketing for your?
Jessica Martin (26:34):
Maybe a dozen, which I know it doesn't
marketing to.
I mean, I visited.
So I visited close to 30bookstores for my first book to
get the word out.
So I and I've done signings.
I'm doing a book club at one.
Book clubs are another trippything that you can do at
bookstores.
You can do in people's homesand are super fun.
But yeah, I go to a lot ofbookstores just to kind of pound
(26:56):
the pavement, especially when Iwas a debut, to be like hey,
I'm a local author, I'm runningShakespeare and Rome.
Comes, here's my postcard andlike my contact info.
So I think it's important, likeyou, go see your indie
bookstores.
I have huge amount of what I'veworked in indie bookstores and
I've worked at Barnes and Nobleand I have loves for both of
them.
I don't play favorites books orbooks for me, anything that has
a book in the window.
(27:17):
I will go in and see if theyhave my book and then offer to
sign it.
Like the first couple of daysmust be so embarrassing.
You go in there and there'sthis like 18 year old booksell
and you're like hey, that's mybook on the shelf.
Would you like me to sign it?
I'm the author.
And then you show them the backcover where my face is, as if
some random person would try tosign a book that is not theirs,
but it just it always feltlegitimate to be like that's me,
(27:37):
so now I don't do that.
A lot more chill and I was in.
My first book came out, butyeah, it was just a big moment
for me.
You see your book in print.
Scott (27:46):
Absolutely is Absolutely.
Do you ever go into bookstoresand just randomly sign some
books?
Jessica Martin (27:51):
My books yeah.
Scott (27:54):
Yeah Well, yeah, sometimes I like to go into the
bookstore and sign the Bible.
Jessica Martin (27:57):
That's right.
I mean, surprise, I had booksor like the crossword puzzles or
like sign them, love, love,mark.
Yeah, no, normally I announcemyself because I just want to
make sure they would like you tosign the books.
But most people are like verysweet about it and then I
usually stick like stick asticker on it, like ooh, signed
by the author.
And I always wonder if thatactually encourages people to
buy books or not, because Icertainly don't pick books based
(28:19):
on whether somebody signed themor not.
But you know, maybe it's cool.
Scott (28:21):
I would buy a book that was signed by the author.
Yeah, because you're getting itfor the same price.
It's like free autograph.
Jessica Martin (28:26):
Yeah, I wouldn't buy the plain one sitting next
to it.
I would take the autograph copy, but I don't know that I would
go into it.
If someone was like, oh, wehave all these signed copies of
like fourth wing right, thatbook that's everybody's reading
right now, I don't know if Iwould go in and get one.
I don't know if I would makelike a separate trip for it, but
if it was there I would tellyou that.
Scott (28:40):
Yeah, I would be worried also about autographing the book
and like screwing up my name,missing a letter or something.
Jessica Martin (28:46):
That's right Recursive and you just kind of
get like right early about it.
Scott (28:51):
Sometimes I forget to cross my t's.
It's weird.
Jessica Martin (28:53):
It's when people spell names for me.
They're like, oh, can you makeit out to like Samantha?
And there's an effinite.
You're like, oh my God, couldyou just spell that for me?
That's that's.
What's hard is that you'regoing to mess up somebody's
dedication.
But yeah, I do really get myname right.
It's the dedication thatfrighten me sometimes.
I want to sign some stuff.
Scott (29:11):
I'm looking around my little studio here and see what
I can sign.
Jessica Martin (29:15):
Sign.
Scott (29:16):
Yeah, so you mentioned that your husband has not read
your books.
Jessica Martin (29:19):
Yes, oh, he's going to hate this podcast.
Scott (29:21):
God, I just can't get that out of my head.
I'm only doing it because Iknow I think it's funny to just
keep grinding it in.
We'll have everybody likecomment on oh yeah, I don't know
why you wouldn't read the book.
Jessica Martin (29:31):
Yeah, oh yeah, we're going to, we're going to
out him right here.
What better way to do it, scott, yeah, yeah, I assume your
daughter obviously has not readthe book.
Scott (29:39):
But what does your daughter think of this whole?
Jessica Martin (29:40):
thing.
She thinks my books are veryboring because they don't have
pictures in them.
Well, obviously she's in agraphic novel stage.
Yeah, graphic novels, by theway, are so much cooler than
when we were kids.
Yeah, and she is in thisgraphic novel stage.
So if it does not have likevibrant pictures, she has no
time for it.
She's like who writes pictureswithout books and who reads
these?
I said adult adults.
But maybe someday she'll get akick out of it.
Scott (30:01):
That's awesome.
Yeah, I mean, that's just justa cool thing to have the book
like in the house and she seesit and she's like, wow, mommy
did that.
That's an awesome, awesomething.
Jessica Martin (30:08):
Can I tell you what the coolest part of this
whole experience has been?
I love talking about this.
So my biggest day as an authorwhen it was like real was when
they sent me the audition tapesfor the narrator.
I'm a huge audible person, likean audio person.
Scott (30:20):
Oh yeah.
Jessica Martin (30:20):
And it was so cool to get a vote.
Like Penguin sends you allthese like samples and I got to
weigh in, I got to have a voteand they went with the woman
that I picked and she's anactress, she's out in California
, she's doing the second book.
It was wild because then youhear your book and you're like,
wow, I wrote that.
So when people ask me like youknow what's the coolest part of
this?
The close second is getting tolike have a vote on your cover.
(30:43):
But for me, my first love wasgetting to hear who would read
it, so that's been my coolestpart.
Scott (30:49):
But when you think of that concept, like someone is
being paid to read the wordsthat you wrote, that you got
paid for I know it's a systemicjust keeps perpetuating.
Jessica Martin (30:57):
We're paying in everybody crazy.
Scott (31:00):
Well, you mentioned the book covers.
How does that process work,whether it were book covers
chosen and who creates them?
Jessica Martin (31:06):
And so they had picked out an artist that they
were super jazzed about.
Her name is Flora Fuentes andshe is incredible.
She's a designer.
She's a graphic designer out ofBuenos Aires and I just was.
I was her first book cover andI was so honored because they
asked they gave her the book.
And then they asked me to sortof suggest if I had any thoughts
about the cover at a couple,but none of them very good, and
(31:26):
she just brought them to lifeand I thought, oh, my goodness,
this is what they look like.
So I begged and pleaded thatshe would do the second cover
and I just love them.
They're really vibrant, they'rereally fun.
I love the colors, but I'm notartistically inclined that way.
So the cover thing was moreintimidating.
I'm so glad she's so talented.
She figured it out.
The Audible narrator was moreat my alley, which was like I
like to listen to books, so Ifelt like more of a voice and I
(31:50):
like to stand on there to belike I love this person.
Scott (31:53):
I'm looking at both books now and I like the way that she
kind of color flipped them.
That's a really cool thingbecause it shows that
connectivity and very coolconcept.
I like that.
Jessica Martin (32:03):
Yeah, I love them.
Scott (32:04):
So, jess, when I did my podcast research and I put into
Google Jessica Martin, author,it also Google gives you
suggestions.
Oh and yes, I don't know ifyou've seen this and it says
people also have searched forand look at the company you're
in Nora Roberts, whoa, danielleSteele, bk Bunsen I have no idea
(32:26):
who that is.
Who is?
Jessica Martin (32:27):
BK Bunsen, I will look this up.
Scott (32:30):
But Danielle Steele, whoa and Ellie Everhart.
Let's see what BK Bunsen hasdone.
Oh well, she's an Amazonbestselling author, so right
there.
Oh, she's done some competitiveromcom books as well.
Oh, you can't really see it inmy point of flip around.
But yeah, she's done some otherbooks, but they obviously are
not anywhere near yours, sowe'll get rid of her.
Jessica Martin (32:49):
That's so fun, so I don't.
I subscribe to be like.
I don't Google myself.
I never go on Goodreads to seewhat Goodreads is like a savage
place, really.
Yeah, I set up Google alertsand I you know I mostly find
like my diehard fans are onInstagram.
So like I will search thehashtag of the title and people
like people do great stuff onInstagram with your book.
(33:09):
They like pose it on the beachand like with, like beads and
coffee and tea and you're likethat is gorgeous.
Scott (33:14):
It's awesome.
Jessica Martin (33:15):
And sometimes they read the book or sometimes
they're just people kind of workwith covers, they're like
visual artists.
So I absolutely love that.
But yeah, I generally stay offthe internet.
I stay off the reviews.
I generally wait for my agentto tell me if it's a good review
or not.
They generally criticallythey've done pretty well.
But yeah, it's just, it's yourwriting.
You can feel kind of likeprotective of it.
So I just their places, theirdark places on the internet I
(33:36):
tend to stay out of.
Scott (33:37):
So I'm on Goodreads right now.
Yeah, I don't mean to put youon the spot.
Can I read one of the reviewsthat it's?
Jessica Martin (33:42):
Yes, only with the good ones.
If it's like I wish, thepuppies would drown in this one
and then don't read those ones.
The puppies would drown.
Scott (33:47):
Oh good Lord.
Oh Puck, that's the name of thepuppy, not not?
Well, you obviously don't.
But for the listeners, it's notthat I didn't want to say fuck,
because I could say it's mypodcast, I'll say whatever.
Jessica Martin (33:57):
Oh yeah, no, Puck is in the first, puck, yeah
, puck in the first, fuckingHamlet in the second.
Scott (34:02):
So this is Jessica's writing flows brilliantly.
It just feels she's writingfrom a place where her husband
hasn't read both books yet.
Jessica Martin (34:10):
Oh, wonderful.
Scott (34:12):
I'm gonna frame that one.
Jessica Martin (34:13):
Yeah, she writes uninhibited as if her husband
isn't watching.
Scott (34:17):
I want to check that one out.
Jessica Martin (34:21):
Oh man, what are you going to call?
I feel like we have to somehowtitle this episode.
Gourby doesn't read rom-toms,or something fun.
Scott (34:28):
So here's the thing on my podcast.
So they just convert, they justchange over to AI, which scares
the shit out of me.
Like somehow I feel thatbecause I'm having AI do my
podcast synopsis, that it'sgoing to trigger World War Three
.
I feel like I'm going to bepart of it.
I don't.
Oh, I see.
Yeah, it kind of cruncheseverything and if you keep
harping on a subject it may pickit up.
(34:48):
So if it does become one of thetitle suggestions, I'll let you
know.
Jessica Martin (34:52):
Oh yeah, absolutely I'm not going to be
the friend discount and you cansort of work it into a title
because that will be immortaland legend in our house.
Scott (34:59):
So yeah, I'll screenshot it and you can make it your
background on Facebook.
Excellent.
Well, Jess, this has beenawesome.
Thank you so much for takingthe time out of your insanely
busy schedule as a lawyer, mom,wife, world bestselling author
to sit down and chat with metoday.
Jessica Martin (35:14):
Well, thank you, Scott.
This was so fun.
I really enjoyed it.
Thanks for having me.
Scott (35:17):
Where can people buy the books?
Jessica Martin (35:19):
You can buy books wherever they are sold.
Support your local indie.
Go into a Barnes and Noble, goon Amazon Anywhere you can
access books, gay for you, oryour library.
I used to be a teacher's aidlibrary and I am a huge promoter
of your local library and a lotof libraries have it.
So go find it.
And you can find me onInstagram at C Jess write books
You're a creative.
And you can find me at JessicaMartin bookscom.
Scott (35:40):
Awesome.
I'll put those both the shownotes.
Folks, if you are all mylisteners in Zambia, amazon will
deliver to you.
We'll get it there.
But everybody, please checkthese books out.
They sound amazing.
I can't wait to check them outmyself.
I have massive ADD and it'sreally hard to read a full book,
but maybe I will just get theaudio book right.
Jessica Martin (35:56):
You can listen to it, yes, but not with your
daughter in the car.
Oh, okay.
Scott (36:00):
Oops, oops, honey, earmuffs, quick, quick.
Jessica Martin (36:05):
It is a romcom and like 90% of it is family
friendly and then 10% of it isnot.
You'll figure it out.
Scott (36:11):
We'll get there.
We'll get there.
But, yeah, thank you again fortaking the time.
This has been great.
Everybody, please go check outall her social media stuff and
pick up both books for the loveof the Bard, and the second one,
the even more salacious.
I think that, yeah, definitelyIs it salacious, even the more
salacious one the day of myexistence.
Thanks again, this has beenfantastic.
I wish you the best of luck.
(36:32):
Thanks, I can't wait topossibly see these on screen as
well, but we'll see.
Jessica Martin (36:37):
We'll see, we'll see what the future holds, and
I don't recall.
Scott (36:39):
I did a fair amount of acting.
So you know, if you've got someclout and there's an old crabby
man in your books, I'm your man.
Well, thanks, scott, take care.
Thank you so much, thank you.
Jessica Martin (36:51):
I mean, you look official, so you're in.
Scott (36:53):
I'm going to let you know a little secret these
headphones aren't even pluggedin.
Not even plugged in, excellent,just for effect, just for show.
No, they're plugged in.
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