September 20, 2023 • 33 mins
We invite you on a heartfelt journey as we remember our friend, Heather Vennewald, whose bright life was cut tragically short by suicide. As we navigate the painful reality of her absence, former roommate and close companion, Jill Collado, joins us in paying tribute to Heather's vibrant spirit and contagious love for life. As we repaint the picture of Heather, the prank-loving friend, we also highlight the importance of recognizing potential signals of mental despair and the significance of having open conversations about mental health.
Prepare to step into our world as we revisit when we first learned of Heather's suicide. Struck by grief and trauma, we recount our experiences and the lessons learned through the healing process. Together, Jill and I shed light on how Heather's sudden departure has reshaped our perspectives, encouraging us to extend more understanding and compassion to those battling mental health struggles.
In the final segment, we honor Heather's joy-filled life and the priceless moments we shared. From humorous stories to the creation of the Heather Fund at the University of Rhode Island, we explore various ways her memory continues to inspire and impact lives. Jill shares her emotional journey post-college and the invaluable role of her friends and family during these challenging times. We encourage everyone to tune in, as we not only commemorate Heather but also underscore the critical importance of mental health discussions.
Are you or someone you know in crisis?
Call or text 988 or chat at 988lifeline.org
https://web.uri.edu/counseling/heatherfund/
https://www.raceentry.com/uri-be-5k/race-information
https://www.samhsa.gov/newsroom/suicide-prevention-month
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Scott (00:00):
This episode deals with the sensitive topics of suicide
and mental health.
Although there won't be graphicdetails, please know that the
discussion will venture intoareas that may not be suitable
for children.
Therefore, parental discretionis strongly advised.
The guest today is Jill Collado.
Jill and I graduated from theUniversity of Rhode Island
together an unspecified numberof years ago.
(00:20):
That's a long time.
I live with my three maleroommates, around the corner
from Jill and her four femaleroommates.
The nine of us were extremelyclose and my roommates and I
were always at the girls housewhen we were on campus.
Before the beginning of lastsemester's senior year, one of
those girls, our friend HeatherVennewald, took her own life.
September is National SuicidePrevention Month and today Jill
(00:41):
and I take some time to honorour dear friend while discussing
the impact her loss had on allof us.
This is an extremely importantdiscussion, sometimes sad,
sometimes humorous, and we urgeyou to please listen to the
episode in its entirety.
If we can save just one lifewith our discussion today, it
will all be worth it.
Jill, who was to you?
Jill (01:04):
Heather was my college friend, my like fun friend.
She was a jokester.
She liked to play pranks.
Scott, I can remind you of somepranks that we played on each
other's houses, many of whichwere Heather's doing she had
this like sinister evil laughthat she would do in the
background she said when I metsophomore junior year I can't
(01:27):
even remember, but she was afriend of a friend and then for
senior year we were roommates.
We lived in a house of fivegirls down the line in
Narragansett, rhode Island, andnot only was she my roommate but
she was my bathroom-sharingroommate, so our rooms were next
to each other, we shared abathroom.
For, as friendly as we werebeforehand, we were like thrown
into this house together and ontop of each other and became
(01:50):
very close very fast, and thatwas September of senior year.
So yeah, she was a fun, lovingfriend.
She was laid back, she liked tohave a good time, she didn't
take anything too seriously.
She was emotional, but I wouldsay not anymore than my own self
.
I was in my own angst phase.
I think every college studentis so we weren't able to
(02:12):
foreshadow is what I'm saying.
She was a regular collegestudent, regular 21-year-old who
had crushes on boys andstruggled in class, but who
didn't and liked to have a goodtime.
As we all were sort of alreadymourning the end of our college
career Because nobody wanted tosee it come to an end.
Scott (02:30):
We had talked before and I met Heather roughly around the
same time and I met her becausemy buddies were friends with
her brother and I wouldbasically see her around campus
in the center of a flock ofpeople and people would just be
hanging out and laughing andenjoying life and it was just
something about this girl that Ineed to meet like I need to
meet her and be friends with her.
I want to be part of this funthat is going on around her at
(02:53):
all times.
You know, we ended up hangingout and meeting and she was
amazing For me.
She was just a fun lovingjokester and definitely, you
know, prankaholic.
But there was also another sideof her for me that she was a
shoulder to cry on for me for alot.
I had a girlfriend at the timeand I wasn't the greatest
boyfriend and she was alwaysthere for me to kind of let me
get it off my chest and thenkind of give me some great
(03:13):
advice, and it always was justamazing advice.
All the time we would go downby the rocks and air against the
University of Rhode Island.
Partake in some marijuana.
This is the first time I thinkI've ever admitted that I've
done that.
So there goes my politicalcareer.
But you know we would just hangout and just catch the waves
and enjoy life and just talkabout stuff.
And she was just amazing.
And you're right, there was noforeshadowing.
If you had a line, 15 people upand said, you know which one do
(03:36):
you think is going to dosomething drastic, she would
never to bring a million yearsbeen close to that.
Jill (03:41):
I'm already getting teary-eyed because we haven't
talked about who she was justlike at her heart in so long, so
I'm already like emotional.
The jokester stuff.
I was just literally tellingsomebody the story about the
forks and you got, I think youguys placed the forks.
No, we placed the forks in yourlawn.
We went on the middle of thenight and placed the forks like
a fork graveyard all over yourlawn and then you guys tried to
(04:03):
tie the tree trunk to the frontof our front door so we couldn't
get out of the house.
But like Heather was behind allof that and she was like a
little schemer, right.
Yeah, we were having a party atour house and I wanted to
invite several boys that I hadcrashes on and she encouraged
that and so we like madeinvitations and dropped them in
mailboxes.
There's so many memories of herplaying jokes like she liked to
(04:26):
have a good time.
Scott (04:27):
You'd mentioned earlier that laugh that, laugh that
little giggle was you knew badstuff was going on.
Yeah, she had plans that she wasgoing to go through with them
and joking around in general.
But yeah, she was amazing.
She was a sister, she was adaughter, but for us she was
just an awesome, awesome friend.
(04:47):
27 years later, I think abouther constantly and I often think
what would she be like today?
And I think she'd be the same.
I think she'd be an awesomefriend, awesome brother or
sister.
I think she'd be an awesome momtoo, and unfortunately we
didn't get to see that.
So today we want to not onlycelebrate her, but we want to
also make sure that folks outthere kind of look and listen
(05:07):
for possible signs.
You mentioned it.
We would never in a millionyears think it was something
that she would do.
So, you know, maybe nowadays,if we can dig a little deeper
and, you know, maybe see if wecan, you know, help out one
person, that would be great.
Jill (05:20):
I think about this all the time.
I don't know, even now, withthe, I am now in my 40s, I'm a
mom and if I look back I stilldon't see the signs.
So I don't know how easy it issometimes to see the signs.
Scott (05:33):
Yeah.
Jill (05:33):
But I think what's important and what we can
hopefully help even just oneperson do is recognize certain
things in themselves and spreadthe message of a better day lies
just around the corner.
Or you can get help or you cantalk to somebody, things like
that.
There's a, there's a campaignor there was this campaign for,
like LGBTQ plus youth, like itgets better, and I thought that
(05:55):
was a great campaign foreveryone, right.
Like there's so much thatawaits you in the future that
you have no idea about.
Right, you're stuck in bad days.
Now.
Bad days don't last forever andthere is always help and there's
always hope, and sometimes it'shard to get that help.
I know for my own self, for myfamily.
It's not always easy whenyou're in a shit place to pick
(06:16):
up the phone and try and find anew therapist and new
psychiatrist.
You're often hit withroadblocks, whether they're
insurance or people don't havetime on their schedule, and so
that's when you reach out to afriend or a family member and
let them help you navigate that.
But there is always help outthere and there are always
brighter days ahead, and I Iwish Heather could have seen the
future.
(06:36):
I think she had temporaryproblems that could have been
solved and she, I would assume,has had deeper issues that Scott
we talked about this earliermaybe would have been recognized
now or dealt with in adifferent way because we know so
much more about mental healthand medication to chemical
imbalance.
It's not somebody's fault wherewe say, like if you were
diabetic, you would treat yourdiabetes with insulin.
(06:58):
Mental illness could be achemical imbalance and people
need medication to help them andthat's okay, yeah.
Scott (07:04):
Sitting down and researching for a chat.
I did some kind of stats and Ithought about how, back when we
were in school you know, wegraduated in 1996, there was a
stigma about it, about mentalhealth in general, but also from
a suicide standpoint.
That was not talked about atall and if you did talk about it
, it was seen as you promotingit.
You know, don't even put theidea in someone's head, don't
mention the word suicide,because that's going to make
(07:26):
someone do it and that was sucha wrong idea for all of us.
You know, now, over the yearswe've expanded our knowledge of
mental health.
We've expanded our potentialchemical imbalance treatments.
We've done a lot and you thinkthat that would diminish these
numbers and these numbers aregrowing at astronomical rates.
You know, one of the numbers Ilooked at was the suicide rate
in 1996 for 15 to 24 year olds Iwas 13% of the deaths were
(07:51):
suicide.
There was 31,000 people in 1996.
In 2023, with better knowledgeand the stigma being kind of
withdrawn and you know medicineand all sorts of things were
designed to really help folksthat number has climbed to
49,500.
That's crazy, you know.
I know the world's kind oftough, but there's so many other
options and hopefully we canget there and open people's eyes
(08:13):
.
You know, without getting intothe specifics and the graphic
details, you unfortunately werethe one to find Heather.
You know, again without gettinginto detail.
Would you describe that topeople listening?
Jill (08:26):
Yeah, and I hope you don't mind that I like go into the
spiritual a little because Idon't know if you remember this
story, but it is a little freakyelement to it.
Yeah, but it was Christmasbreak between our first and
second semester senior year andHeather went back to school
early I didn't know why and ourother friend, mike, was up at
school.
So they were the only two up inRhode Island.
(08:47):
The rest of us were home withour families and I was just sort
of growing bored of being athome.
And so I called Heather from mydad's house and said hey, I'm
coming back early.
If I was supposed to come backon Saturday, I was coming back
Thursday.
And we got into a little bit ofa argument and I didn't realize
why.
It wasn't really an argument,but she's like why are you
coming back early?
Little attitude, I don't know.
(09:08):
And coming back early, I wantto come up.
So I drove up four hours.
It was snowing.
I was very emotional because Iwas driving up to my last
semester of senior year and myfour years at URI had been
amazing.
I never wanted to leave.
I'd still go back, happily Samehere, and I was.
I was very emotional aboutgoing back.
And then I remember I got offthe exit, for you know, to go
(09:31):
towards our house.
I stopped at the Wendy'sdrive-through.
I had a car phone.
It wasn't a mobile phone, I hada car phone.
Oh, big time I know.
Yeah, I had some swagger backthen called Heather from our,
called the house, and I left themessage on the answering
machine, on her voicemail, theanswering machine saying hey, do
you want anything?
I'm coming home.
Anyway, I got to our house andI parked in the driveway.
(09:54):
I took my key.
I went up to the front doorSame key that had been used from
September through December whenwe left for Christmas break and
the key didn't work.
The key would not go into thedoor.
Now I knew that the same keywas not used for the garage, but
I was tired and 21.
I went to the garage door andtried to open it.
It didn't work.
So I went back up to the frontdoor, tried the key again.
It did not work.
(10:14):
I then took out my green,fabulous Nokia car phone and
called Mike, who was at hishouse, you know, and they had
been together.
I called him and I said hey, mykey is not working.
You guys have a spare key.
I don't know where Heather is.
Can you come over with yourspare key?
He said Sure, I'll be over in aminute.
He pulls up and he says myspare key is gone.
(10:35):
Didn't realize why at the time,but his spare key was gone.
He takes my key, he goes rightup to my front door, puts it in
and it works.
And it hadn't worked fiveminutes earlier to this day.
Believe somebody was lookingafter me and was making sure I
did not go into that house alone.
So we go into the house andnothing seems off and we're like
(10:55):
Heather.
Heather, we didn't know whereshe was.
Her car wasn't out front.
We go into the kitchen andthere's a note it says Jill, so
sorry, put the paraphernaliaaway.
And I'm so sorry, and I waslike what is going on?
We then go into her room lookingfor her and there's cards on
her bed, one addressed to thefour girls and one addressed, I
think it was Mike.
(11:16):
I don't remember exact details.
A little fuzzy, yeah, and weopen up the card.
It didn't say anything otherthan like I love you.
I don't remember the specificsand Mike, unfortunately, had had
a grandfather who passed fromsuicide and we both looked at
each other and sort of knew he'slike I'm going into the garage.
Oh, I think the note in thekitchen said something like
Don't go into the garage alone.
(11:37):
There was a reason.
We knew she was in the garage.
So we kind of knew.
He said I'm going in the garage.
I said I'm not going in thegarage.
I said I'm calling 911.
I called 911 and I said I thinkmy roommate killed herself.
I don't remember theconversation much.
I do remember, a few minuteslater, hearing the sirens.
Mike went into the garage.
He couldn't see the light hadburnt out, so he couldn't see
anything.
(11:57):
So we didn't really seeanything.
Yeah, I heard the sirens coming, the fire, the fire truck
arrived.
There was snow on the groundtoo.
So the fire truck arrives,firemen go in, they go down into
the basement.
We showed them where, and onecomes up like a few minutes
later and I said is she downthere?
And they're like yeah.
I said, is she dead?
And they said yes, from thatpoint on you're just numb.
(12:19):
Yeah, we waited for cops toarrive.
We had to wait for the medicalexaminer and his car was stuck
in the snow somewhere.
And so they came into our houseoh my god.
And we sat down at the kitchentable You're in a fog.
And they said we have to openall the windows.
There was so much carbonmonoxide in the house Also that
if I had come in by myself,hadn't figured it out and gone
(12:41):
to sleep, I probably would havebeen killed myself.
Scott (12:43):
Yeah.
Jill (12:43):
That is what they told me.
I then had to call my otherfriends, so I think I called
Marissa first.
The rest is fuzzy.
Who called who?
It's fuzzy, I know the girlsremember their individual
stories and called my parents,my dad three, four hours away,
and they packed up the car anddrove up.
It was like you were just goingthrough the motion.
I remember certain things, Ican visualize certain things,
(13:06):
but all of it is a fog.
I will say there's also a funnymemory in there.
I like to try and add humorwhere we can or remember.
There's always light in thesemoments.
Heather's brother was friendswith this guy, carl, who was a
cop in town, and we called himCarl the Cop, ctc.
Scott (13:21):
I remember Carl the Cop.
Jill (13:22):
Carl the Cop, CTC.
We had his picture hanging inour house.
I don't know why, but it was onthe refrigerator and the
sheriff comes in and he looks atme and goes why is Carl hanging
on your fridge?
I was like Heather did that,Like that was back to the
jokester theme.
I was Heather, we had a pictureof Carl the Cop hanging on a
(13:42):
refrigerator and so there was amoment of levity in all of this.
Oh my gosh.
I mean, yes, I never saw her,thank God.
But the PTSD that came alongwith that and the anxiety.
I would have had anxiety andPTSD regardless.
But I think the added piece offinding her in that moment has
changed my life.
The path went in a just totallydifferent direction.
(14:04):
But also the story of knowingsomebody was looking after me.
I've never known.
I'm agnostic, I don't know whatI believe in, I don't know if I
believe in God, but I dobelieve there was some sort of
force looking after me that day.
But I was not alone when Iwalked into that house.
Scott (14:17):
That's so amazing.
Jill (14:18):
I guess.
And then crazy things happenedafter that, even when all the
girls got together, like therewere stories of weird things
happening that we looked at as asign.
I mean, maybe in the time wejust needed it.
We needed a sign because wewere just 421-year-old kids who
thought we were adults.
Looking back now, as a mom, Ican't imagine my child going
(14:39):
through something like that orthe way in which my life changed
in an instant.
Scott (14:43):
So I had actually come up earlier.
I was still working Don't wantto brag Worked at a video store.
People were like, what's thatold guy?
I had stayed up at school and Iwas working at the video store
and one of my friends from homewho didn't go to school that's
came up to visit.
We'll go out to some of thebars.
There's some folks stillfloating around and we ran into
Mike and Heather at Charlie O'sthat night.
(15:06):
I never knew that.
Yeah, we ran into them.
Heather was very emotional.
I introduced her to my friendand she was kind of sniffling
and I was like what's the matter?
She was like nothing, nothing,nothing Must be allergies.
And Mike was like, yeah, shejust drunken, she's just being
emotional.
And she gave me a hug, goodbyeand excuse me, my buddy.
I went back to my house and hewas like I don't feel like
hanging out here.
There's no chicks, there's nonothing.
(15:27):
I'm going home.
I'm like really Just going todrive home in the snow and after
a few drinks, you know, we'reall juggernauts and we're all
immortal.
At that point we think and he'slike yep, I'm just going to
leave.
And we left.
I said, well, I'm not ready togo to bed and what we do.
I got in the car and I drovearound to your house because
that's what we would always do,even though we lived like 100
feet away, we found it necessaryat all times Drive, yeah, to
(15:49):
get in the car and go around thecorner.
So I actually drove by yourhouse and Heather's car was not
out front, there were no lightson and I just kept going.
Jill (15:58):
I never knew that, Scott, and all these years I never knew
that you saw her that night.
You must have told us like 100years ago, but I didn't know.
Scott (16:04):
I dealt with it for a good five, six years.
You know, in my head I was likeI would have driven through the
garage door.
I would have done this.
There's no way.
I would have known.
There's absolutely no way.
Jill (16:14):
How could you have known?
Scott (16:15):
Kind of like a weird survivor's guilt that you deal
with.
Jill (16:18):
I determined the date of her death.
I was supposed to come backlater.
She had to do it early becauseI came back early.
Scott, I've lived with that for100 years.
I have said this 100 times.
I have talked about her suicidemillions of times over the
years.
Every single person who's goingto listen to this has had bad
days.
Every single person has saidlike I just don't want to go on.
(16:38):
There is a huge differencebetween feeling depressed,
feeling anxious and not wantingto deal with your life and
actually taking the stepsnecessary to end it.
There is something verydifferent in that mind.
It doesn't mean anything waswrong with her, but back to the
whole point of not knowing asmuch about chemical imbalances
(16:59):
and mental health.
People can talk about all right, I don't want to live, shoot me
, whatever.
But it takes a very differentperson to go through what she
went through.
She methodically thought it out.
She took a key from Mike'shouse so that he couldn't come
save her if he had caught on.
She wrote letters.
She went into that car andturned on the ignition and sat
there.
She had time to get out and shedid not.
(17:21):
She really wanted to not behere anymore.
That is the saddest thing,because we all know we could
have helped if we had known, butthere was no way to know.
Scott (17:30):
Yeah, yeah, I ended up coming back and I just went to
bed and then a couple of myroommates came back that next
day and I think it was you whocalled.
You called us, evan picked thephone up.
He just went white, just gonethe color out of his face.
And then he told us I mean, wewere all obviously shocked.
I was so unbelievably shockedbecause I had literally seen her
(17:53):
that night.
And you start putting thepieces together after the fact.
It was just the tears, the hug,the driving around the corner
and it was just so much.
And you mentioned the 21.
We were all 21.
And that's such a fuzzy stageof life because you're
(18:14):
technically an adult, you'relike legally an adult but you're
not really an adult.
And we literally had to grow up.
Like that minute, yeah, theminute we all found out that
Heather had done that, we allhad to grow up immediately.
That's a lot for kids to do,you know.
That's just.
It's an astronomical amount oftime and maturity to go through
in 25 seconds.
Jill (18:36):
We were there like scary, or two days later.
I can't imagine their grief.
I do remember speaking to MrsBenelog.
We called her Mrs B and likeshe asked, like what you know.
She was just looking for anyanswers and we didn't have them.
I was fortunate that I kept upa relationship with Mrs B.
She, unfortunately, has passedin the last few years.
You know, 10 years later I sawher.
(18:58):
15 years later I saw her.
She was still looking foranswers and there were answers I
still couldn't have.
But yeah, I mean immediatelyafter we all gathered at the
Benelog House, I mean it was myfirst wake.
I'm Jewish, you know we don'tlook at bodies.
Well, this is another crazystory.
But we get to the wake and weall, like we literally held
(19:18):
hands and walking together.
I mean I wouldn't.
This is when I like learned tolean on my girlfriends.
I mean I've always leaned on myfriends.
But we literally held hands,walking together, and we walked
up to the casket together andshe was dressed in Marissa's
outfit.
Sorry about that, but like herbrother and sister had gone up
and we all shared clothes, soMarissa's clothes had been in
(19:40):
Heather's room and so they tooka skirt and a shirt and they put
it out.
You know, that's what theyburied her in and it was
Marissa's.
And Marissa got up to thecoffin.
She's like that's my outfit,and not in a mean way.
She was emotional about it thather best friend was going to be
buried in her outfit.
And I think I said somethinglike I think this is the last
(20:01):
time we'll all be together andsomebody everyone looked at me
like fuck you, like why say that?
It just added fuel to the fire?
I know, but then in the back ofmy head I was still a 21 year
old I remember the boy I waslike hooking up with at the time
had come from Rhode Island orwherever he was, and come to the
wake and I was like, look who'shere, like my crush, but
(20:21):
Heather would have wanted that,of course.
And then her nails were painteda funny color and we're like,
oh my God, she would be fuckingmiserable that her nails were
like salmon's ink and herlipstick was not a color she
would wear.
You know, yeah, the thing I wasgoing to say about talking
about growing up we I think ourparents called our landlord, we
didn't want to move back intothat house and we had no choice,
(20:42):
yeah.
And so once again, the four ofus went up together, held hands
and walked through that frontdoor.
The bravery that took to dothat and the props that I give
my younger self and all of us towalk into that house after what
had happened is amazing.
And, as I mentioned, I'm Jewish.
In the Jewish religion, we sitShiva, and we decided we didn't
(21:02):
want our house to be the placethat people like wouldn't go to.
So we decided we were going tohave like a sit Shiva and we
were going to invite people toour house, invite everyone to
come in and say like there'snothing creepy about this house,
this is our house.
And we did that.
I think it was helpful for us.
Once again, like I don't knowwhich one of us thought of that
we were acting older than Iexpected us to be.
But then again, a week later,we were all in therapy together.
(21:24):
We should have kept going, butwe didn't.
And then that last semester, Imean, we used to sing the go-go
song.
Do you hear them?
They talk about us.
People would whisper about usbecause we were the girls who
friend had committed suicide andI only had one class, so I had
a lot of free time on my hands,which is not good when you're
dealing with something traumatic, so I was basically inebriated
(21:48):
24 seven and that was the onlyway I could get through that
last semester of college.
Scott (21:52):
I remember going to the wake and looking around and
seeing everybody cry and Icouldn't.
I don't know why.
I remember she wanted to ask meif I was okay and I was like,
yeah, I'm fine and I wasn't fine, you're not fine, you just
don't know how to process any ofit.
It didn't hit me until I wasstill working.
At two or three days later Ihad to go to work.
I had broken up with myex-girlfriend at the time and
(22:15):
she walked through the door andshe was like hi, I heard, are
you okay?
And that made it real Like thatwas.
You know, we knew.
But once you know, the campusstarted to hear and you
mentioned your bravery and I'vesaid this to you girls a hundred
times, well, maybe one time,but it was.
I mean, that got me throughthat year, just watching you all
(22:37):
take it in stride and, you know, just keeping a smile on your
face as much as you could.
And you live in your lives andit was.
It was just reallyinspirational to me because I
had a lot of cracks and we alldid.
Jill (22:52):
We were just hiding it.
I mean, yes, we had bravery, wegot through it.
None of us failed out.
And it's a rumor you don't getall A's when your roommate dies
in college.
That was a bad rumor.
People always ask me that.
But I think about all of us.
I mean to the degree, like mygirlfriends.
I know like the trajectory ofour lives all changed in that
moment and I can sit here and doyou know a masterclass on which
(23:16):
direction everyone went and howit affected their lives in some
good ways and bad.
I think you know we talkedabout this beforehand, but there
were plenty of times in my lifewhere I felt like at the end of
my rope, but like suicide wasnever an option, because I know
it gets better.
I know that.
So in some ways, heather savedmy life.
I know a few people I'm notgoing to mention names who are
related to our friend group.
(23:36):
Heather saved their lives too,for sure, because they knew the
impact it would have and theyrealized it wasn't the answer.
And so there are pros there thatshe ended up saving people's
lives, but there are cons too.
I mean I have two children,one's 15 now and one is 12.
There are no children out therewho don't suffer from anxiety
and depression.
But I'm a catastrophic thinkernow.
(23:58):
So if something is really bad,I worry that they're going to
take their lives and that is noway to go through life and no
way to go through parenting.
They are aware, they know aboutHeather.
I talked about her.
I literally last month we wereup in Rhode Island.
I drove past the house.
They know about her.
It has affected my parenting100% and my husband and I talk
about it.
He's like you think everyproblem they're going to commit
(24:20):
suicide.
It's a real issue.
Scott (24:21):
Yeah, no, I thought I had the same conversation.
You know, I'm always concerned.
You know, did we push thisperson's buttons too much?
Did we do?
Did we say something that wastoo mean?
Or you never know, because wewere in a situation where we
didn't know.
And it's interesting becausethere are almost textbook
examples of what depressionlooks like and crisis thinking
(24:41):
and that sort of thing.
Nothing ever happens.
And then you have somebody thatthere were no signs from our
view and something did happen.
Jill (24:48):
You always say you never know what's going on inside
somebody's mind.
I mean, there have been a fewhigh profile cases of college
suicide.
There was that one trackathlete.
She was from New Jersey, shehad everything going for her and
she jumped off a building atcollege.
I think it's those ones thatshock you the most, but those
are the ones you have to lookafter, those who appear to have
everything, appear to have itall together.
(25:08):
You know they look like there'sno cracks in their foundation.
Those are the ones where youshould make sure you're checking
their foundation.
But how can you right and to betheir prying friend and
annoying friend?
I think it's very difficult toreally then decide these to tell
you the signs that people aregetting their stuff away.
Heather didn't give her shitaway.
She didn't give us anything.
Scott (25:30):
She took more of his clothes.
We all have each other'sclothes.
Jill (25:32):
But yes, you know, those signs weren't there.
I don't know what the signs areanymore, but I do think social
media and today's world is nothelping our youth.
They look at everyone's livesand think everything's perfect
and I try and tell my kids likeit's Instagram versus reality.
It's not Instagram for them,it's like Snapchat, I guess.
But I can't imagine the addedpressure if we had that when we
(25:54):
were in college.
But I think that's adding to it.
Scott (25:57):
Most definitely so.
The wake of the funeral or over, you come back to school.
Does the university contact youor do anything specific to help
out?
Jill (26:05):
No, the president of the Pan-Hellenic Foundation because
some of us were in sororitiescame to the wake.
After that, there was nothing,not one phone call, not one
letter, nothing.
I actually wrote to the schoolyears ago and made mention of it
, but there was nothing.
They did not reach out to seeif we were okay and I think
that's.
I mean, look, it wasn'tliterally 100 years ago.
(26:25):
They should have known betterand I think they just wanted to
brush it under the rug.
Scott (26:29):
I mean, when you think about it, it's a huge PR issue
for recruiting and our landlord,our landlord's like please
don't tell anyone.
Jill (26:36):
He wanted to make sure he could fill his house the next
year.
Really, Nobody wanted to talkabout it.
I mean, now there is thisHeather Fund.
It is started at URI by theVenowalves.
There is a walk every yearwhere they raise money for the
Heather Fund.
It's through the counselingcenter and they offer different
services.
Stuff exists, but I still don'tknow if it goes far enough.
(26:56):
We need to continue theconversation, continue the
dialogue, which is why myfriends and I are going up
October 15th to URI to do thewalk.
I also happened to be inpossession of all of the albums
that were put together forHeather's family at the time of
the funeral.
I have them here.
Heather's sister sent them tome.
Me and my friends have neverall been together to look at
(27:17):
them all together.
So we are going to do that.
We're going to toast to Heatherand throw some drinks back also
and celebrate her life and dowhat we can to raise money to
help the Heather Fund.
That's fantastic.
Scott (27:28):
I had borrowed a CD from Heather back when we had CDs
after she passed away.
I still had it and I selfishlykept it because I wanted
something of hers.
I used to pull it out all thetime and pop it in.
Do you remember the band SecondStep?
No, it was a funky reggae bandthat used to play at the bars
all the time.
Well, maybe it rings a bell,but I ended up keeping it and I
would pop it in every so often.
Now I don't have any technologyto pop it in too.
Jill (27:51):
No, you do not.
Scott (27:53):
I'm like what do I do with this thing now?
Yeah, so I have to go to thethrift store and see if I could
buy a CD player.
It was something that I didn'tthink of at first, and then I
just wanted to keep.
Obviously, I think of her allthe time.
I wanted that piece to keep formyself.
Jill (28:04):
It's interesting.
She had a ring that I rememberand I know, karen, her sister
had it afterwards and I canpicture it and for the last how
many years since we graduatedI've looked for a ring similar
to it and I've never found thatexact ring.
But literally every time I goonline or in a store I look for
something similar to that ringand I've never found anything
that quite matches it.
Scott (28:24):
So one of the other brave things that you all did was you
had a graduation party in thehouse?
Jill (28:29):
Yes, and there was video proof.
Scott (28:31):
There is.
I saw it.
It's shocking.
I have it on YouTube.
What was I mean?
You had obviously had peopleover.
We had gone over.
It took us a little while tojust kind of get settled back in
, but it was very interesting.
It was just nice to have thatparty and that was something
that people all over were havingparties, but we wanted to make
sure that that was what we wentto.
That was the part that we wentto.
That was where we were going tospend our kind of last night as
(28:53):
college students.
What were the emotions like?
Do you remember the emotions ofthat setting that up and
actually go on without Heather?
Jill (29:00):
I feel like it was a conscious decision to have it.
We I mean talk about emotions.
Like I said before, it was theculmination of four years, the
best four years of my life, andI can still honestly say that,
even with this tragedy thatoccurred and leaving the place
where Heather had been with usand she didn't get to graduate,
I think all of us were trying tobe positive and, like, honestly
(29:22):
, like, celebrate ouraccomplishments, celebrate
ourselves I think we realized wewere brave at the time
celebrate life and also, like Idon't know, pour one out and
celebrate the amazing four yearswe had and, like sort of say
goodbye to the end of that era.
I don't think we had any secondthoughts about throwing that
party.
That's not the right word.
Like we said, we should do aparty.
(29:43):
We made the decision to do itand we never looked back.
One roommate wasn't able toreally be there as much.
It was just too much for her.
We had to try and go on withlife as best we could, and maybe
we were faking it and we wereprobably just really drunk to
just get through that.
I mean, like I said, my wholelast semester is sort of a blur,
but I remember thinking well,life is short, we have to do
(30:07):
this, we have to celebrate andwe need to go on.
The real depression honestlycame after leaving school.
I left my entire support system.
I moved home to New Jersey Mikewas nearby and Mike and I were
like attached at the hip, as wehad been since.
We have gone through this wholething together.
But my entire friend group wasgone, my entire support system,
everyone who knew what happenedand, like you, leave these four
(30:27):
amazing years and leaving thistragedy and leaving all your
best friends.
And I have to get a job.
I mean, it was like all theshitty things happening and
that's when my real depressioncame in.
And about a year later, I movedinto the city and I would say I
became like a wild one.
You know, within reason, but Iwas like making up for something
, filling holes in my heart.
I wasn't in therapy at the timeand I was partying to fill
(30:51):
those voids.
Scott (30:51):
Yeah, that's probably like the darkest time for me too
.
I was still hurting and reelingfrom Heather and I just was not
prepared to grow up and Iremember, you know, having those
terrible thoughts myself andthinking, you know, it's just
easier to get rid of the wholesituation and I thought about
the impact that the loss ofHeather had on us and I couldn't
(31:12):
do that to my friends and mymother and my family.
I just I couldn't.
So in that regard it definitely, you know, saved me as well.
Wish there had been a betterway to save me.
Jill (31:23):
Of course, yeah.
Scott (31:24):
Well, jill, this has been awesome, catching up with you
talking about our friend andshe's one of a kind, and I hope
that if anybody's listening,that there's help out there.
There's friends, family.
I'm going to make sure that Iput all the numbers in the show
notes, but the one to rememberis 988.
That is the suicide, financial,suicide prevention hotline.
(31:45):
There's someone to talk to,there's someone to listen.
Please give that a shot beforeyou make any other decisions,
because there's a lot of painthat goes around with all that,
but you're definitely not alone.
Jill (31:58):
I feel like I didn't do this topic justice.
I feel like I can talk about itforever, but I feel like we did
header justice.
But I don't know that you couldever do this topic justice.
Everything in my mind justkeeps going back to you never
know what lies around the corner.
Right, you think you're at theend of a dead end street, but
then there's something waitingfor you.
It might not be tomorrow, itmight not be the next day, but
(32:18):
things always turn around.
Things can always get better.
Yeah, it's tough, Life's tough,and I think you also have to
realize life's tough, but therewill always be good moments too.
Scott (32:28):
Yeah, well, thanks again, jill for being on.
This is great.
Heather, we love you, we missyou.
Jill (32:33):
I can't say something like that without breaking down.
Scott (32:37):
Yeah, that was a tough one.
Jill (32:39):
We leave sunflowers for her at Coast Guard whenever we
go.
Yeah.
Scott (32:43):
It's funny.
I plant sunflowers, bigskyscrapers, sunflowers in my
backyard every year For her.
I can never grow good ones,they always die and I always
think she's messing with me.
Jill (32:52):
She's for sure messing with you.
Like I said, there's a wholelike another podcast of all the
ways she messed with us.
After the fact, there were somany things that were like, oh
my god, this had to be her.
But she's definitely lookingdown on us now, Scott, and
honestly laughing at the factthat we're both sitting here
crying.
We're both sitting here cryingand she is making fun of us.
Scott (33:12):
Rolling a rise at us, as always.
Absolutely All right.
Well, thank you again and again.
Everything will be in the shownotes and we thank you for
listening.
This episode deals with the sensitive topics of suicide
and mental health.
Although there won't be graphicdetails, please know that the
discussion will venture intoareas that may not be suitable
for children.
Therefore, parental discretionis strongly advised.
The guest today is Jill Collado.
Jill and I graduated from theUniversity of Rhode Island
together an unspecified numberof years ago.
(00:20):
That's a long time.
I live with my three maleroommates, around the corner
from Jill and her four femaleroommates.
The nine of us were extremelyclose and my roommates and I
were always at the girls housewhen we were on campus.
Before the beginning of lastsemester's senior year, one of
those girls, our friend HeatherVennewald, took her own life.
September is National SuicidePrevention Month and today Jill
(00:41):
and I take some time to honorour dear friend while discussing
the impact her loss had on allof us.
This is an extremely importantdiscussion, sometimes sad,
sometimes humorous, and we urgeyou to please listen to the
episode in its entirety.
If we can save just one lifewith our discussion today, it
will all be worth it.
Jill, who was to you?
Jill (01:04):
Heather was my college friend, my like fun friend.
She was a jokester.
She liked to play pranks.
Scott, I can remind you of somepranks that we played on each
other's houses, many of whichwere Heather's doing she had
this like sinister evil laughthat she would do in the
background she said when I metsophomore junior year I can't
(01:27):
even remember, but she was afriend of a friend and then for
senior year we were roommates.
We lived in a house of fivegirls down the line in
Narragansett, rhode Island, andnot only was she my roommate but
she was my bathroom-sharingroommate, so our rooms were next
to each other, we shared abathroom.
For, as friendly as we werebeforehand, we were like thrown
into this house together and ontop of each other and became
(01:50):
very close very fast, and thatwas September of senior year.
So yeah, she was a fun, lovingfriend.
She was laid back, she liked tohave a good time, she didn't
take anything too seriously.
She was emotional, but I wouldsay not anymore than my own self
.
I was in my own angst phase.
I think every college studentis so we weren't able to
(02:12):
foreshadow is what I'm saying.
She was a regular collegestudent, regular 21-year-old who
had crushes on boys andstruggled in class, but who
didn't and liked to have a goodtime.
As we all were sort of alreadymourning the end of our college
career Because nobody wanted tosee it come to an end.
Scott (02:30):
We had talked before and I met Heather roughly around the
same time and I met her becausemy buddies were friends with
her brother and I wouldbasically see her around campus
in the center of a flock ofpeople and people would just be
hanging out and laughing andenjoying life and it was just
something about this girl that Ineed to meet like I need to
meet her and be friends with her.
I want to be part of this funthat is going on around her at
(02:53):
all times.
You know, we ended up hangingout and meeting and she was
amazing For me.
She was just a fun lovingjokester and definitely, you
know, prankaholic.
But there was also another sideof her for me that she was a
shoulder to cry on for me for alot.
I had a girlfriend at the timeand I wasn't the greatest
boyfriend and she was alwaysthere for me to kind of let me
get it off my chest and thenkind of give me some great
(03:13):
advice, and it always was justamazing advice.
All the time we would go downby the rocks and air against the
University of Rhode Island.
Partake in some marijuana.
This is the first time I thinkI've ever admitted that I've
done that.
So there goes my politicalcareer.
But you know we would just hangout and just catch the waves
and enjoy life and just talkabout stuff.
And she was just amazing.
And you're right, there was noforeshadowing.
If you had a line, 15 people upand said, you know which one do
(03:36):
you think is going to dosomething drastic, she would
never to bring a million yearsbeen close to that.
Jill (03:41):
I'm already getting teary-eyed because we haven't
talked about who she was justlike at her heart in so long, so
I'm already like emotional.
The jokester stuff.
I was just literally tellingsomebody the story about the
forks and you got, I think youguys placed the forks.
No, we placed the forks in yourlawn.
We went on the middle of thenight and placed the forks like
a fork graveyard all over yourlawn and then you guys tried to
(04:03):
tie the tree trunk to the frontof our front door so we couldn't
get out of the house.
But like Heather was behind allof that and she was like a
little schemer, right.
Yeah, we were having a party atour house and I wanted to
invite several boys that I hadcrashes on and she encouraged
that and so we like madeinvitations and dropped them in
mailboxes.
There's so many memories of herplaying jokes like she liked to
(04:26):
have a good time.
Scott (04:27):
You'd mentioned earlier that laugh that, laugh that
little giggle was you knew badstuff was going on.
Yeah, she had plans that she wasgoing to go through with them
and joking around in general.
But yeah, she was amazing.
She was a sister, she was adaughter, but for us she was
just an awesome, awesome friend.
(04:47):
27 years later, I think abouther constantly and I often think
what would she be like today?
And I think she'd be the same.
I think she'd be an awesomefriend, awesome brother or
sister.
I think she'd be an awesome momtoo, and unfortunately we
didn't get to see that.
So today we want to not onlycelebrate her, but we want to
also make sure that folks outthere kind of look and listen
(05:07):
for possible signs.
You mentioned it.
We would never in a millionyears think it was something
that she would do.
So, you know, maybe nowadays,if we can dig a little deeper
and, you know, maybe see if wecan, you know, help out one
person, that would be great.
Jill (05:20):
I think about this all the time.
I don't know, even now, withthe, I am now in my 40s, I'm a
mom and if I look back I stilldon't see the signs.
So I don't know how easy it issometimes to see the signs.
Scott (05:33):
Yeah.
Jill (05:33):
But I think what's important and what we can
hopefully help even just oneperson do is recognize certain
things in themselves and spreadthe message of a better day lies
just around the corner.
Or you can get help or you cantalk to somebody, things like
that.
There's a, there's a campaignor there was this campaign for,
like LGBTQ plus youth, like itgets better, and I thought that
(05:55):
was a great campaign foreveryone, right.
Like there's so much thatawaits you in the future that
you have no idea about.
Right, you're stuck in bad days.
Now.
Bad days don't last forever andthere is always help and there's
always hope, and sometimes it'shard to get that help.
I know for my own self, for myfamily.
It's not always easy whenyou're in a shit place to pick
(06:16):
up the phone and try and find anew therapist and new
psychiatrist.
You're often hit withroadblocks, whether they're
insurance or people don't havetime on their schedule, and so
that's when you reach out to afriend or a family member and
let them help you navigate that.
But there is always help outthere and there are always
brighter days ahead, and I Iwish Heather could have seen the
future.
(06:36):
I think she had temporaryproblems that could have been
solved and she, I would assume,has had deeper issues that Scott
we talked about this earliermaybe would have been recognized
now or dealt with in adifferent way because we know so
much more about mental healthand medication to chemical
imbalance.
It's not somebody's fault wherewe say, like if you were
diabetic, you would treat yourdiabetes with insulin.
(06:58):
Mental illness could be achemical imbalance and people
need medication to help them andthat's okay, yeah.
Scott (07:04):
Sitting down and researching for a chat.
I did some kind of stats and Ithought about how, back when we
were in school you know, wegraduated in 1996, there was a
stigma about it, about mentalhealth in general, but also from
a suicide standpoint.
That was not talked about atall and if you did talk about it
, it was seen as you promotingit.
You know, don't even put theidea in someone's head, don't
mention the word suicide,because that's going to make
(07:26):
someone do it and that was sucha wrong idea for all of us.
You know, now, over the yearswe've expanded our knowledge of
mental health.
We've expanded our potentialchemical imbalance treatments.
We've done a lot and you thinkthat that would diminish these
numbers and these numbers aregrowing at astronomical rates.
You know, one of the numbers Ilooked at was the suicide rate
in 1996 for 15 to 24 year olds Iwas 13% of the deaths were
(07:51):
suicide.
There was 31,000 people in 1996.
In 2023, with better knowledgeand the stigma being kind of
withdrawn and you know medicineand all sorts of things were
designed to really help folksthat number has climbed to
49,500.
That's crazy, you know.
I know the world's kind oftough, but there's so many other
options and hopefully we canget there and open people's eyes
(08:13):
.
You know, without getting intothe specifics and the graphic
details, you unfortunately werethe one to find Heather.
You know, again without gettinginto detail.
Would you describe that topeople listening?
Jill (08:26):
Yeah, and I hope you don't mind that I like go into the
spiritual a little because Idon't know if you remember this
story, but it is a little freakyelement to it.
Yeah, but it was Christmasbreak between our first and
second semester senior year andHeather went back to school
early I didn't know why and ourother friend, mike, was up at
school.
So they were the only two up inRhode Island.
(08:47):
The rest of us were home withour families and I was just sort
of growing bored of being athome.
And so I called Heather from mydad's house and said hey, I'm
coming back early.
If I was supposed to come backon Saturday, I was coming back
Thursday.
And we got into a little bit ofa argument and I didn't realize
why.
It wasn't really an argument,but she's like why are you
coming back early?
Little attitude, I don't know.
(09:08):
And coming back early, I wantto come up.
So I drove up four hours.
It was snowing.
I was very emotional because Iwas driving up to my last
semester of senior year and myfour years at URI had been
amazing.
I never wanted to leave.
I'd still go back, happily Samehere, and I was.
I was very emotional aboutgoing back.
And then I remember I got offthe exit, for you know, to go
(09:31):
towards our house.
I stopped at the Wendy'sdrive-through.
I had a car phone.
It wasn't a mobile phone, I hada car phone.
Oh, big time I know.
Yeah, I had some swagger backthen called Heather from our,
called the house, and I left themessage on the answering
machine, on her voicemail, theanswering machine saying hey, do
you want anything?
I'm coming home.
Anyway, I got to our house andI parked in the driveway.
(09:54):
I took my key.
I went up to the front doorSame key that had been used from
September through December whenwe left for Christmas break and
the key didn't work.
The key would not go into thedoor.
Now I knew that the same keywas not used for the garage, but
I was tired and 21.
I went to the garage door andtried to open it.
It didn't work.
So I went back up to the frontdoor, tried the key again.
It did not work.
(10:14):
I then took out my green,fabulous Nokia car phone and
called Mike, who was at hishouse, you know, and they had
been together.
I called him and I said hey, mykey is not working.
You guys have a spare key.
I don't know where Heather is.
Can you come over with yourspare key?
He said Sure, I'll be over in aminute.
He pulls up and he says myspare key is gone.
(10:35):
Didn't realize why at the time,but his spare key was gone.
He takes my key, he goes rightup to my front door, puts it in
and it works.
And it hadn't worked fiveminutes earlier to this day.
Believe somebody was lookingafter me and was making sure I
did not go into that house alone.
So we go into the house andnothing seems off and we're like
(10:55):
Heather.
Heather, we didn't know whereshe was.
Her car wasn't out front.
We go into the kitchen andthere's a note it says Jill, so
sorry, put the paraphernaliaaway.
And I'm so sorry, and I waslike what is going on?
We then go into her room lookingfor her and there's cards on
her bed, one addressed to thefour girls and one addressed, I
think it was Mike.
(11:16):
I don't remember exact details.
A little fuzzy, yeah, and weopen up the card.
It didn't say anything otherthan like I love you.
I don't remember the specificsand Mike, unfortunately, had had
a grandfather who passed fromsuicide and we both looked at
each other and sort of knew he'slike I'm going into the garage.
Oh, I think the note in thekitchen said something like
Don't go into the garage alone.
(11:37):
There was a reason.
We knew she was in the garage.
So we kind of knew.
He said I'm going in the garage.
I said I'm not going in thegarage.
I said I'm calling 911.
I called 911 and I said I thinkmy roommate killed herself.
I don't remember theconversation much.
I do remember, a few minuteslater, hearing the sirens.
Mike went into the garage.
He couldn't see the light hadburnt out, so he couldn't see
anything.
(11:57):
So we didn't really seeanything.
Yeah, I heard the sirens coming, the fire, the fire truck
arrived.
There was snow on the groundtoo.
So the fire truck arrives,firemen go in, they go down into
the basement.
We showed them where, and onecomes up like a few minutes
later and I said is she downthere?
And they're like yeah.
I said, is she dead?
And they said yes, from thatpoint on you're just numb.
(12:19):
Yeah, we waited for cops toarrive.
We had to wait for the medicalexaminer and his car was stuck
in the snow somewhere.
And so they came into our houseoh my god.
And we sat down at the kitchentable You're in a fog.
And they said we have to openall the windows.
There was so much carbonmonoxide in the house Also that
if I had come in by myself,hadn't figured it out and gone
(12:41):
to sleep, I probably would havebeen killed myself.
Scott (12:43):
Yeah.
Jill (12:43):
That is what they told me.
I then had to call my otherfriends, so I think I called
Marissa first.
The rest is fuzzy.
Who called who?
It's fuzzy, I know the girlsremember their individual
stories and called my parents,my dad three, four hours away,
and they packed up the car anddrove up.
It was like you were just goingthrough the motion.
I remember certain things, Ican visualize certain things,
(13:06):
but all of it is a fog.
I will say there's also a funnymemory in there.
I like to try and add humorwhere we can or remember.
There's always light in thesemoments.
Heather's brother was friendswith this guy, carl, who was a
cop in town, and we called himCarl the Cop, ctc.
Scott (13:21):
I remember Carl the Cop.
Jill (13:22):
Carl the Cop, CTC.
We had his picture hanging inour house.
I don't know why, but it was onthe refrigerator and the
sheriff comes in and he looks atme and goes why is Carl hanging
on your fridge?
I was like Heather did that,Like that was back to the
jokester theme.
I was Heather, we had a pictureof Carl the Cop hanging on a
(13:42):
refrigerator and so there was amoment of levity in all of this.
Oh my gosh.
I mean, yes, I never saw her,thank God.
But the PTSD that came alongwith that and the anxiety.
I would have had anxiety andPTSD regardless.
But I think the added piece offinding her in that moment has
changed my life.
The path went in a just totallydifferent direction.
(14:04):
But also the story of knowingsomebody was looking after me.
I've never known.
I'm agnostic, I don't know whatI believe in, I don't know if I
believe in God, but I dobelieve there was some sort of
force looking after me that day.
But I was not alone when Iwalked into that house.
Scott (14:17):
That's so amazing.
Jill (14:18):
I guess.
And then crazy things happenedafter that, even when all the
girls got together, like therewere stories of weird things
happening that we looked at as asign.
I mean, maybe in the time wejust needed it.
We needed a sign because wewere just 421-year-old kids who
thought we were adults.
Looking back now, as a mom, Ican't imagine my child going
(14:39):
through something like that orthe way in which my life changed
in an instant.
Scott (14:43):
So I had actually come up earlier.
I was still working Don't wantto brag Worked at a video store.
People were like, what's thatold guy?
I had stayed up at school and Iwas working at the video store
and one of my friends from homewho didn't go to school that's
came up to visit.
We'll go out to some of thebars.
There's some folks stillfloating around and we ran into
Mike and Heather at Charlie O'sthat night.
(15:06):
I never knew that.
Yeah, we ran into them.
Heather was very emotional.
I introduced her to my friendand she was kind of sniffling
and I was like what's the matter?
She was like nothing, nothing,nothing Must be allergies.
And Mike was like, yeah, shejust drunken, she's just being
emotional.
And she gave me a hug, goodbyeand excuse me, my buddy.
I went back to my house and hewas like I don't feel like
hanging out here.
There's no chicks, there's nonothing.
(15:27):
I'm going home.
I'm like really Just going todrive home in the snow and after
a few drinks, you know, we'reall juggernauts and we're all
immortal.
At that point we think and he'slike yep, I'm just going to
leave.
And we left.
I said, well, I'm not ready togo to bed and what we do.
I got in the car and I drovearound to your house because
that's what we would always do,even though we lived like 100
feet away, we found it necessaryat all times Drive, yeah, to
(15:49):
get in the car and go around thecorner.
So I actually drove by yourhouse and Heather's car was not
out front, there were no lightson and I just kept going.
Jill (15:58):
I never knew that, Scott, and all these years I never knew
that you saw her that night.
You must have told us like 100years ago, but I didn't know.
Scott (16:04):
I dealt with it for a good five, six years.
You know, in my head I was likeI would have driven through the
garage door.
I would have done this.
There's no way.
I would have known.
There's absolutely no way.
Jill (16:14):
How could you have known?
Scott (16:15):
Kind of like a weird survivor's guilt that you deal
with.
Jill (16:18):
I determined the date of her death.
I was supposed to come backlater.
She had to do it early becauseI came back early.
Scott, I've lived with that for100 years.
I have said this 100 times.
I have talked about her suicidemillions of times over the
years.
Every single person who's goingto listen to this has had bad
days.
Every single person has saidlike I just don't want to go on.
(16:38):
There is a huge differencebetween feeling depressed,
feeling anxious and not wantingto deal with your life and
actually taking the stepsnecessary to end it.
There is something verydifferent in that mind.
It doesn't mean anything waswrong with her, but back to the
whole point of not knowing asmuch about chemical imbalances
(16:59):
and mental health.
People can talk about all right, I don't want to live, shoot me
, whatever.
But it takes a very differentperson to go through what she
went through.
She methodically thought it out.
She took a key from Mike'shouse so that he couldn't come
save her if he had caught on.
She wrote letters.
She went into that car andturned on the ignition and sat
there.
She had time to get out and shedid not.
(17:21):
She really wanted to not behere anymore.
That is the saddest thing,because we all know we could
have helped if we had known, butthere was no way to know.
Scott (17:30):
Yeah, yeah, I ended up coming back and I just went to
bed and then a couple of myroommates came back that next
day and I think it was you whocalled.
You called us, evan picked thephone up.
He just went white, just gonethe color out of his face.
And then he told us I mean, wewere all obviously shocked.
I was so unbelievably shockedbecause I had literally seen her
(17:53):
that night.
And you start putting thepieces together after the fact.
It was just the tears, the hug,the driving around the corner
and it was just so much.
And you mentioned the 21.
We were all 21.
And that's such a fuzzy stageof life because you're
(18:14):
technically an adult, you'relike legally an adult but you're
not really an adult.
And we literally had to grow up.
Like that minute, yeah, theminute we all found out that
Heather had done that, we allhad to grow up immediately.
That's a lot for kids to do,you know.
That's just.
It's an astronomical amount oftime and maturity to go through
in 25 seconds.
Jill (18:36):
We were there like scary, or two days later.
I can't imagine their grief.
I do remember speaking to MrsBenelog.
We called her Mrs B and likeshe asked, like what you know.
She was just looking for anyanswers and we didn't have them.
I was fortunate that I kept upa relationship with Mrs B.
She, unfortunately, has passedin the last few years.
You know, 10 years later I sawher.
(18:58):
15 years later I saw her.
She was still looking foranswers and there were answers I
still couldn't have.
But yeah, I mean immediatelyafter we all gathered at the
Benelog House, I mean it was myfirst wake.
I'm Jewish, you know we don'tlook at bodies.
Well, this is another crazystory.
But we get to the wake and weall, like we literally held
(19:18):
hands and walking together.
I mean I wouldn't.
This is when I like learned tolean on my girlfriends.
I mean I've always leaned on myfriends.
But we literally held hands,walking together, and we walked
up to the casket together andshe was dressed in Marissa's
outfit.
Sorry about that, but like herbrother and sister had gone up
and we all shared clothes, soMarissa's clothes had been in
(19:40):
Heather's room and so they tooka skirt and a shirt and they put
it out.
You know, that's what theyburied her in and it was
Marissa's.
And Marissa got up to thecoffin.
She's like that's my outfit,and not in a mean way.
She was emotional about it thather best friend was going to be
buried in her outfit.
And I think I said somethinglike I think this is the last
(20:01):
time we'll all be together andsomebody everyone looked at me
like fuck you, like why say that?
It just added fuel to the fire?
I know, but then in the back ofmy head I was still a 21 year
old I remember the boy I waslike hooking up with at the time
had come from Rhode Island orwherever he was, and come to the
wake and I was like, look who'shere, like my crush, but
(20:21):
Heather would have wanted that,of course.
And then her nails were painteda funny color and we're like,
oh my God, she would be fuckingmiserable that her nails were
like salmon's ink and herlipstick was not a color she
would wear.
You know, yeah, the thing I wasgoing to say about talking
about growing up we I think ourparents called our landlord, we
didn't want to move back intothat house and we had no choice,
(20:42):
yeah.
And so once again, the four ofus went up together, held hands
and walked through that frontdoor.
The bravery that took to dothat and the props that I give
my younger self and all of us towalk into that house after what
had happened is amazing.
And, as I mentioned, I'm Jewish.
In the Jewish religion, we sitShiva, and we decided we didn't
(21:02):
want our house to be the placethat people like wouldn't go to.
So we decided we were going tohave like a sit Shiva and we
were going to invite people toour house, invite everyone to
come in and say like there'snothing creepy about this house,
this is our house.
And we did that.
I think it was helpful for us.
Once again, like I don't knowwhich one of us thought of that
we were acting older than Iexpected us to be.
But then again, a week later,we were all in therapy together.
(21:24):
We should have kept going, butwe didn't.
And then that last semester, Imean, we used to sing the go-go
song.
Do you hear them?
They talk about us.
People would whisper about usbecause we were the girls who
friend had committed suicide andI only had one class, so I had
a lot of free time on my hands,which is not good when you're
dealing with something traumatic, so I was basically inebriated
(21:48):
24 seven and that was the onlyway I could get through that
last semester of college.
Scott (21:52):
I remember going to the wake and looking around and
seeing everybody cry and Icouldn't.
I don't know why.
I remember she wanted to ask meif I was okay and I was like,
yeah, I'm fine and I wasn't fine, you're not fine, you just
don't know how to process any ofit.
It didn't hit me until I wasstill working.
At two or three days later Ihad to go to work.
I had broken up with myex-girlfriend at the time and
(22:15):
she walked through the door andshe was like hi, I heard, are
you okay?
And that made it real Like thatwas.
You know, we knew.
But once you know, the campusstarted to hear and you
mentioned your bravery and I'vesaid this to you girls a hundred
times, well, maybe one time,but it was.
I mean, that got me throughthat year, just watching you all
(22:37):
take it in stride and, you know, just keeping a smile on your
face as much as you could.
And you live in your lives andit was.
It was just reallyinspirational to me because I
had a lot of cracks and we alldid.
Jill (22:52):
We were just hiding it.
I mean, yes, we had bravery, wegot through it.
None of us failed out.
And it's a rumor you don't getall A's when your roommate dies
in college.
That was a bad rumor.
People always ask me that.
But I think about all of us.
I mean to the degree, like mygirlfriends.
I know like the trajectory ofour lives all changed in that
moment and I can sit here and doyou know a masterclass on which
(23:16):
direction everyone went and howit affected their lives in some
good ways and bad.
I think you know we talkedabout this beforehand, but there
were plenty of times in my lifewhere I felt like at the end of
my rope, but like suicide wasnever an option, because I know
it gets better.
I know that.
So in some ways, heather savedmy life.
I know a few people I'm notgoing to mention names who are
related to our friend group.
(23:36):
Heather saved their lives too,for sure, because they knew the
impact it would have and theyrealized it wasn't the answer.
And so there are pros there thatshe ended up saving people's
lives, but there are cons too.
I mean I have two children,one's 15 now and one is 12.
There are no children out therewho don't suffer from anxiety
and depression.
But I'm a catastrophic thinkernow.
(23:58):
So if something is really bad,I worry that they're going to
take their lives and that is noway to go through life and no
way to go through parenting.
They are aware, they know aboutHeather.
I talked about her.
I literally last month we wereup in Rhode Island.
I drove past the house.
They know about her.
It has affected my parenting100% and my husband and I talk
about it.
He's like you think everyproblem they're going to commit
(24:20):
suicide.
It's a real issue.
Scott (24:21):
Yeah, no, I thought I had the same conversation.
You know, I'm always concerned.
You know, did we push thisperson's buttons too much?
Did we do?
Did we say something that wastoo mean?
Or you never know, because wewere in a situation where we
didn't know.
And it's interesting becausethere are almost textbook
examples of what depressionlooks like and crisis thinking
(24:41):
and that sort of thing.
Nothing ever happens.
And then you have somebody thatthere were no signs from our
view and something did happen.
Jill (24:48):
You always say you never know what's going on inside
somebody's mind.
I mean, there have been a fewhigh profile cases of college
suicide.
There was that one trackathlete.
She was from New Jersey, shehad everything going for her and
she jumped off a building atcollege.
I think it's those ones thatshock you the most, but those
are the ones you have to lookafter, those who appear to have
everything, appear to have itall together.
(25:08):
You know they look like there'sno cracks in their foundation.
Those are the ones where youshould make sure you're checking
their foundation.
But how can you right and to betheir prying friend and
annoying friend?
I think it's very difficult toreally then decide these to tell
you the signs that people aregetting their stuff away.
Heather didn't give her shitaway.
She didn't give us anything.
Scott (25:30):
She took more of his clothes.
We all have each other'sclothes.
Jill (25:32):
But yes, you know, those signs weren't there.
I don't know what the signs areanymore, but I do think social
media and today's world is nothelping our youth.
They look at everyone's livesand think everything's perfect
and I try and tell my kids likeit's Instagram versus reality.
It's not Instagram for them,it's like Snapchat, I guess.
But I can't imagine the addedpressure if we had that when we
(25:54):
were in college.
But I think that's adding to it.
Scott (25:57):
Most definitely so.
The wake of the funeral or over, you come back to school.
Does the university contact youor do anything specific to help
out?
Jill (26:05):
No, the president of the Pan-Hellenic Foundation because
some of us were in sororitiescame to the wake.
After that, there was nothing,not one phone call, not one
letter, nothing.
I actually wrote to the schoolyears ago and made mention of it
, but there was nothing.
They did not reach out to seeif we were okay and I think
that's.
I mean, look, it wasn'tliterally 100 years ago.
(26:25):
They should have known betterand I think they just wanted to
brush it under the rug.
Scott (26:29):
I mean, when you think about it, it's a huge PR issue
for recruiting and our landlord,our landlord's like please
don't tell anyone.
Jill (26:36):
He wanted to make sure he could fill his house the next
year.
Really, Nobody wanted to talkabout it.
I mean, now there is thisHeather Fund.
It is started at URI by theVenowalves.
There is a walk every yearwhere they raise money for the
Heather Fund.
It's through the counselingcenter and they offer different
services.
Stuff exists, but I still don'tknow if it goes far enough.
(26:56):
We need to continue theconversation, continue the
dialogue, which is why myfriends and I are going up
October 15th to URI to do thewalk.
I also happened to be inpossession of all of the albums
that were put together forHeather's family at the time of
the funeral.
I have them here.
Heather's sister sent them tome.
Me and my friends have neverall been together to look at
(27:17):
them all together.
So we are going to do that.
We're going to toast to Heatherand throw some drinks back also
and celebrate her life and dowhat we can to raise money to
help the Heather Fund.
That's fantastic.
Scott (27:28):
I had borrowed a CD from Heather back when we had CDs
after she passed away.
I still had it and I selfishlykept it because I wanted
something of hers.
I used to pull it out all thetime and pop it in.
Do you remember the band SecondStep?
No, it was a funky reggae bandthat used to play at the bars
all the time.
Well, maybe it rings a bell,but I ended up keeping it and I
would pop it in every so often.
Now I don't have any technologyto pop it in too.
Jill (27:51):
No, you do not.
Scott (27:53):
I'm like what do I do with this thing now?
Yeah, so I have to go to thethrift store and see if I could
buy a CD player.
It was something that I didn'tthink of at first, and then I
just wanted to keep.
Obviously, I think of her allthe time.
I wanted that piece to keep formyself.
Jill (28:04):
It's interesting.
She had a ring that I rememberand I know, karen, her sister
had it afterwards and I canpicture it and for the last how
many years since we graduatedI've looked for a ring similar
to it and I've never found thatexact ring.
But literally every time I goonline or in a store I look for
something similar to that ringand I've never found anything
that quite matches it.
Scott (28:24):
So one of the other brave things that you all did was you
had a graduation party in thehouse?
Jill (28:29):
Yes, and there was video proof.
Scott (28:31):
There is.
I saw it.
It's shocking.
I have it on YouTube.
What was I mean?
You had obviously had peopleover.
We had gone over.
It took us a little while tojust kind of get settled back in
, but it was very interesting.
It was just nice to have thatparty and that was something
that people all over were havingparties, but we wanted to make
sure that that was what we wentto.
That was the part that we wentto.
That was where we were going tospend our kind of last night as
(28:53):
college students.
What were the emotions like?
Do you remember the emotions ofthat setting that up and
actually go on without Heather?
Jill (29:00):
I feel like it was a conscious decision to have it.
We I mean talk about emotions.
Like I said before, it was theculmination of four years, the
best four years of my life, andI can still honestly say that,
even with this tragedy thatoccurred and leaving the place
where Heather had been with usand she didn't get to graduate,
I think all of us were trying tobe positive and, like, honestly
(29:22):
, like, celebrate ouraccomplishments, celebrate
ourselves I think we realized wewere brave at the time
celebrate life and also, like Idon't know, pour one out and
celebrate the amazing four yearswe had and, like sort of say
goodbye to the end of that era.
I don't think we had any secondthoughts about throwing that
party.
That's not the right word.
Like we said, we should do aparty.
(29:43):
We made the decision to do itand we never looked back.
One roommate wasn't able toreally be there as much.
It was just too much for her.
We had to try and go on withlife as best we could, and maybe
we were faking it and we wereprobably just really drunk to
just get through that.
I mean, like I said, my wholelast semester is sort of a blur,
but I remember thinking well,life is short, we have to do
(30:07):
this, we have to celebrate andwe need to go on.
The real depression honestlycame after leaving school.
I left my entire support system.
I moved home to New Jersey Mikewas nearby and Mike and I were
like attached at the hip, as wehad been since.
We have gone through this wholething together.
But my entire friend group wasgone, my entire support system,
everyone who knew what happenedand, like you, leave these four
(30:27):
amazing years and leaving thistragedy and leaving all your
best friends.
And I have to get a job.
I mean, it was like all theshitty things happening and
that's when my real depressioncame in.
And about a year later, I movedinto the city and I would say I
became like a wild one.
You know, within reason, but Iwas like making up for something
, filling holes in my heart.
I wasn't in therapy at the timeand I was partying to fill
(30:51):
those voids.
Scott (30:51):
Yeah, that's probably like the darkest time for me too
.
I was still hurting and reelingfrom Heather and I just was not
prepared to grow up and Iremember, you know, having those
terrible thoughts myself andthinking, you know, it's just
easier to get rid of the wholesituation and I thought about
the impact that the loss ofHeather had on us and I couldn't
(31:12):
do that to my friends and mymother and my family.
I just I couldn't.
So in that regard it definitely, you know, saved me as well.
Wish there had been a betterway to save me.
Jill (31:23):
Of course, yeah.
Scott (31:24):
Well, jill, this has been awesome, catching up with you
talking about our friend andshe's one of a kind, and I hope
that if anybody's listening,that there's help out there.
There's friends, family.
I'm going to make sure that Iput all the numbers in the show
notes, but the one to rememberis 988.
That is the suicide, financial,suicide prevention hotline.
(31:45):
There's someone to talk to,there's someone to listen.
Please give that a shot beforeyou make any other decisions,
because there's a lot of painthat goes around with all that,
but you're definitely not alone.
Jill (31:58):
I feel like I didn't do this topic justice.
I feel like I can talk about itforever, but I feel like we did
header justice.
But I don't know that you couldever do this topic justice.
Everything in my mind justkeeps going back to you never
know what lies around the corner.
Right, you think you're at theend of a dead end street, but
then there's something waitingfor you.
It might not be tomorrow, itmight not be the next day, but
(32:18):
things always turn around.
Things can always get better.
Yeah, it's tough, Life's tough,and I think you also have to
realize life's tough, but therewill always be good moments too.
Scott (32:28):
Yeah, well, thanks again, jill for being on.
This is great.
Heather, we love you, we missyou.
Jill (32:33):
I can't say something like that without breaking down.
Scott (32:37):
Yeah, that was a tough one.
Jill (32:39):
We leave sunflowers for her at Coast Guard whenever we
go.
Yeah.
Scott (32:43):
It's funny.
I plant sunflowers, bigskyscrapers, sunflowers in my
backyard every year For her.
I can never grow good ones,they always die and I always
think she's messing with me.
Jill (32:52):
She's for sure messing with you.
Like I said, there's a wholelike another podcast of all the
ways she messed with us.
After the fact, there were somany things that were like, oh
my god, this had to be her.
But she's definitely lookingdown on us now, Scott, and
honestly laughing at the factthat we're both sitting here
crying.
We're both sitting here cryingand she is making fun of us.
Scott (33:12):
Rolling a rise at us, as always.
Absolutely All right.
Well, thank you again and again.
Everything will be in the shownotes and we thank you for
listening.
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