Episode 42 - Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

It's not a sequel to GMK! The Millennium era of Godzilla sees yet another "fresh start" that only acknowledges the original film, but weirdly also a bunch of other connected non-Godzilla movies of the Showa era. Boot up your DNA computers, because the latest model of Mechagodzilla is here to grace the silver screen once again with a drastically different take that was immediately beloved by fans.

We're joined this week by friend and journalist Samuel Tolbert. Sam is good folks, and this won't be the last time you hear from him on Castle Bravo. Hint hint.

Social Media

Derek on Bluesky - @derekvandyke.bsky.social

Charlotte on Bluesky - @dollblood.garden (changed since recording)

Samuel on Bluesky - @samueltolbert.bsky.social

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hi everyone, Derek here, been a hot minute.
Sorry for the crickets around here.
This episode was actually recorded all the way back almost
well, about 6 1/2 months ago in mid-april, and the intention was

(00:23):
always to put the two Kiryu episodes out back-to-back.
So I was going to hold on to thefirst one until we got the
second one recorded. The problem is a lot of real
awful shit went down, you know, first with me and then as, as I

(00:43):
started to get my shit back together, some, some pretty
rough stuff happened to Charlotte as well.
Not that any of us anybody's doing great right now.
I mean, you know, it's this is the bad place.
We, we live in the bad place now.
And it, it's difficult not to lose your mind just from

(01:07):
perceiving the state of the world right now.
It's bad, it's bad. So you you pile, you know,
really rough interpersonal conflict on top of that and, you
know, the collapsing of important social relationships
and, you know, I mean, yeah, yeah.

(01:28):
This, this, this, this episode unfortunately sat for a lot
longer than it should have. We're getting things back up and
moving again. We are working with today's
guest to get the second kyu episode recorded, hopefully
sooner rather than later and getthings moving again.
You know, I, I'm, I apologize and I mean, I, I know that

(01:51):
anytime stuff has gone on and I've apologized for there being
big gaps between episodes. You know, people tell me I
don't, I don't need to be, I don't need to apologize.
And that's true. Like I understand that
intellectually, I, this is a free show that I intentionally
don't monetize. Nobody's holding me to it.
I have a job, I have a family. Charlotte has a job.

(02:13):
Charlotte has has obligations like, you know, we will make
these when we can, but I recognize that a lot of people
were looking forward to these episodes and I'm I'm just sorry
that it's taken so long. I'm getting things back moving
again. I can't say that there will not

(02:37):
be anything else that will interrupt Castle Bravo, but I
mean, my intention is to keep moving forward Charlotte and I
want to keep doing this. So, you know, sorry, I'm, I'm,
I'm rambling a bit, I guess, butI feel like an yet another
unplanned 6 plus month gap deserves to be acknowledged.

(03:01):
Anyway, today's episode's a goodepisode.
I hope everybody's doing OK. I hope all of you listeners are
doing the best that you can to take care of yourself and the
people around you because times are not great right now.
And the only thing we can do is take care of each other and and

(03:23):
try to be responsible with ourselves and with our
communities. And in the process of being
responsible, try to find ways that we can enjoy art and
expression and our hobbies in ways that provide us some relief

(03:48):
while not sheltering us from, I mean, I don't know how to
describe it, the, the rise of fascism in the United States.
I don't know. Just take care of yourself,
folks. Castle Bravo is sort of back,
and hopefully we'll have the next one up for you soon.

(04:18):
Hello everyone, and welcome to Castle Bravo, a Godzilla verse
retrospective. I'm Derek.
And I'm Charlotte. And we're two siblings here to
examine the history of the Godzilla franchise one movie at
a time. We're joined today by journalist
in front of the show, Samuel Tolbert.
Sam, how are you, bud? Hey, I'm doing well.
You know, I'm just really excited and honestly a little in

(04:40):
disbelief that this day is finally here.
I mean, Derek, you first reachedout to me about this recording
for Castle Bravo. What in 2020?
Yeah, this is this is the running theme.
Is that like, now that we're finally like, the later into the
seasons that we get because we lined up so many guests, like

(05:00):
before we even started recording?
There's quite a few people who have been waiting a long time to
get here. But the day has come, the first
of two days, 'cause you're gonnajoin us 2 episodes in a row.
Not to spoil things for people watching about movies that were
made 20 plus years ago. Yeah, it's good to have you on,

(05:23):
bud. It it it's needed, it's needed
on my end for sure. This is this sure is a year,
which is not unique to my situation by any stretch of the
imagination. But you know, it's, it's nice to
talk about big boy lizard. Yeah, yeah, it's nice to have a
little session of Lizard Church and and temporarily tune out the
horrors of the outside Charlotte.

(05:46):
Yeah. How you doing today?
I'm all right. I'm kind of.
Just all right. Yeah, well, you know, we've been
packing. I don't know when this is going
to go up so I'm going to make itdifficult to to know when I'm
leaving for OPSEC reasons. But very soon we will be moving
and I saw my mom today and I will likely only see her one

(06:09):
more time before we go for like 5 minutes.
Yeah, yeah, I know. It's an emotionally complicated
many of us have have many, many,many people in the audience will
understand having strained relationships with parents,
especially in current times. As the Empire crumbles in, Yeah.

(06:31):
Good. I'm doing OK.
I'm definitely a little stuffed up, which is probably coming
through in my voice. I've got a little bit of a case
of like permanent morning voice.But, you know, the horrors
persist, but so do I. You know, I don't know.
Things are going OK on my end. Weirdly weirdly calm, weirdly

(06:54):
stable. Weirdly on the upswing.
Yeah. But I'm just.
I'm just, I'm here for big lizard.
No comments. Cool, we're going to leave that
entire awkward gap in. I I think it really.
Sells the ground itself, the mood of the moment.

(07:16):
Well, it. It insists upon itself.
I I was sitting here like, do I do I say the meds doing work or
not? You know, like.
Oh, it's OK, We can talk. Yeah, I'm on meds.
Meds doing work in in multiple ways.
Meds doing work, yeah, all is well.
It's not like life altering likesome people describe going on
it. I'm on I'm on bupropion,

(07:37):
Wellbutrin and people describe that as being like life
altering, right. For a lot of people.
And like for me it's it's definitely not been my
experience that going on antidepressants was like a a
curtain lifting like things are a little bit easier, right?
I'm, I'm catching myself better and, and like when I'm having
like a, a, a freak out and I'm like bringing myself down a

(08:00):
little easier, but like I still have to do the work.
It's just making it a little easier.
But that's probably how I want things anyway, because I don't,
I don't want to, I don't know. I'd like to not be on medication
forever, you know, especially like, if it's something where I
can just learn the systems myself to, to manage myself
better, you know, which is not to say that that people should

(08:23):
feel discouraged from being on medication if that's what their
doctor thinks is important. People call medication a crutch,
but like, some people need crutches to walk, you know what
I mean? So that's not a moral failing.
So. But yeah, no, all all, all is
well, all is good. It it do it do.
Let's talk about big lizard. I don't know what that energy

(08:47):
was, but I did almost peek my microphone.
Let's. See if it happens again.
It will, don't worry. So let's talk a little bit about
where we are in Godzilla history.
After the infamous 1998 Tristar Godzilla, Toho wanted to come

(09:11):
back, you know, much sooner thananticipated.
Go, guys, we got to make some Godzilla movies.
We cannot let this be, you know,the way we go out there is a a
market and a thirst for more Godzilla and we cannot rely on,
you know, Sony Tristar produced Godzilla sequels to be the thing
that carries this license for the time being.

(09:34):
So we got Godzilla 2000, which we thought was a decent time,
maybe not super deep on substance, but like a decent
time. We got Godzilla versus
Megagiris, weirdly not a sequel to Godzilla 2000, yet another
fresh start and that was messier.
Then we got GMK last episode, which was another fresh start,

(09:54):
but one we thought was. While there were things about it
that were a mixed bag, it was very unique and very refreshing
and something we had not seen out of this franchise in a very
long time. And that played out in the box
office because GMK made a fuck load of money.
My understanding is that the rest the the the other three

(10:19):
Millennium era movies to come, including this one, basically
all got green lit at once off the back of GMK success.
And now we are at what will be yet another sort of reboot .1 of
the things that the suits knew after GMK blew up as suits

(10:42):
often. No, in their infinite wisdom,
GMK was not successful because it was good or different, you
know, or well directed or interestingly written, or had
like an interesting idea and take on Godzilla.
GMK was successful because Mothaand King Ghidorah were in it.
So clearly the next step is whatif we brought back fucking

(11:06):
everyone who made Godzilla versus Mega Gear as and we had
them revive another super popular Godzilla monster, in
this case Mechagodzilla. I I will say I that could have
been a recipe for disaster, right?
Yeah, it could have. Because I mean, if you look down

(11:28):
the list here of our behind the scenes crew, Masaki Tezeka
returning to direct from Godzilla versus Megagiris,
Marimura doing the script from Godzilla versus Mechagodzilla 2,
Godzilla 2000, Godzilla versus Megagiris.
And then new in the special effects direction chair is
Yuichi Kikuchi, who is the SFXADfor the last two Godzilla

(11:50):
movies. So there's at least one change
around that might make somethingof a difference.
And then for our main composer, we have Michiru Oshima, who
composed for Godzilla versus Mega Gears.
In fairness, we thought the score was great in that movie,
so that's not the problem. It's more of a writing and
direction thing we're worried about.

(12:12):
But, yeah, so they were like, what if we just got this crew
that's done, that's ready and and we throw them on another
Godzilla movie and we we have them do Mechagodzilla because
clearly the thing that was holding us back was that nobody
knew who the last couple of opponents were.
Let's just reuse famous names. Whether or not that pays off and

(12:34):
why we will get to Charlotte. Yeah.
Why don't you tell? Us what happens in Godzilla
against Mechagodzilla. OK, I will.
Good. That's.
What we're kind of here for, it's why I'm here.
What if you just went no? No.

(12:55):
Don't feel like it. And we shut the recording off
right here. Anyway, some soldiers are
loading up and driving off whilethis typhoon starts hitting
Tatiyama. And The thing is, it's not just
a storm. It's also Godzilla.
It's a Godzilla storm. I do.
Like the shot where like the thereporter or whatever is in front

(13:19):
of the seawall and you see the wave coming and at first you're
like, Oh my God, is that Godzilla?
And it's just a wave. And then Godzilla does come up
the second time. Pretty good comedic beat.
Yeah, there was this. A part right after that and I
made a note of this even though it's not important, but for some
reason I thought this guy was going to be plot relevant

(13:39):
because he was showing up so early.
But this dude just like drops his stuff, just totally fumbles
everything he's holding outside of a convenience store.
Hey, you want to? Know why that guy stuck out to
you? Why?
Because that's the main actor from Godzilla 2000.
It would be like fucking, I don't know, I, I don't have
like, a good comparison point, but it would be like Chris Evans

(14:02):
randomly showing up for one scene as a dude collecting trash
cans. He'd be like, well, that's a,
that guy's important. That guy's not the Japanese
Chris Evans by any means. I just needed to think of an
actor that people be like, yeah,that guy.
Yeah, well, while he's outside fumbling all of his goods, the
the Anti Megalosaurus Force, or AMF, formed in 1966, by the way,

(14:28):
like it shows all these things on the screen.
They're like formed in 1966. It has this many soldiers,
they're scrambling their tanks and their maser cannons and
they're going to go intercept Godzilla.
Now, if we know anything about Godzilla, Godzilla doesn't care.
I didn't catch. The 1966, can I put a pin in
that? Yeah, you can.
Because I just. Looked something up and I want

(14:48):
to I want to circle back to thisat a later moment.
Continue. Sure.
OK. Well, they, they, they March off
to fight Godzilla. But as Godzilla's won't to do,
Godzilla doesn't care about weapons.
And they also say that the US military is moving in.
And I noted this because we would not do this today.

(15:09):
No. So yeah, the US military and
the, the AMF are moving in to fight Godzilla.
All the, the mazer cannons and tanks and everything are up on,
on a hill, you know, like formeda line to try to stop Godzilla
there. And Akane, who is our, our main

(15:29):
character for this, she's a soldier and she is attempting to
fire the mazer cannon. And Godzilla doesn't care about
the mazer cannon either. Godzilla approaches and she
tries to to back out like get away and she backs into another
vehicle. That vehicle falls off the Cliff
and then Godzilla just steps on it.

(15:51):
Yeah, I remember like that, thatthat truck, I think it's like
trying to get past her and she'slike turning and it like hits it
and and diverts it off. But like that truck just rolls
and rolls and rolls like a comedic amount.
And I'm like, oh, those dudes are probably dead.
And then Godzilla stomps on it and it explodes.
I. Was like.

(16:13):
Those dudes are definitely dead.I was a little surprised because
it's still, it's still kind of anew trend for people to be dying
on screen at all. Yeah.
Yeah, you know. Like.
Explicitly and called attention to, much less want to point out.
This is pretty unambiguous. Like our main character fucked

(16:33):
up and got several of her like partners killed in a very dumb
way. Yeah, so those they're dead.
Godzilla smacks the Mazer Cannonwith its tail roars and then it
drops the title card and it's Godzilla against Mega Godzilla.

(16:57):
But the title card Just say Godzilla X Mechagodzilla.
Yeah, they were. Doing XS a lot in the Japanese
titles at this time because likeGodzilla versus Mega Gears was
Godzilla X Megagiras and the international titles have
adjusted since. So yeah.
There's very 2000s of them, Yeah.

(17:19):
Then they go into the new timeline, right?
When does this movie take place?Well, this is a new Godzilla.
The the prime minister's talkingto the Minister of Technology
about what to do. And they they're just talking
about all this. And the first Godzilla in this
timeline did die to the Oxygen Destroyer.
And this is just the second Godzilla after that one.

(17:39):
But since then, since the original Godzilla died, Mothra
has showed up in 1961, and so did Gyra.
So like. Yeah, so.
So that's why we have an existing like anti monster unit
is this is a world where to someextent like other giant monster
shit has happened. Just no Godzilla right?

(18:02):
This is where I want to throw that pin.
The Anti Megalosaurus unit formed in 1966.
War of the Gargantuas was was released in 1966.
Oh yeah, so it's. Timing it to specifically like
Gyra attacking that military base.
It's. Also just an interesting choice,

(18:22):
right, That like because so muchof A defining factor of the
Millennium Series films has beenOK, each one is only connected
to the original and then we're resetting for whatever story
we're doing here. And so I don't know, I just
think it's an interesting choicethat they specifically wanted to
make. Yeah, those two, and granted
you're talking about two very popular movies of the era that

(18:44):
didn't have Godzilla in them, soyou can kind of make it work.
But. And and I mean, just to jump to
like a thing that's behind the scenes.
But according to some of the documentation on the movie,
Rodan and Veron the Unbelievableare also things that have had
like, as of the time of this release, those movies had also

(19:06):
happened prior to it. So, yeah, OK.
So like. Yeah, basically a lot of these
Showa era movies that did not feature Godzilla are assumed to
have happened. OK, Yeah.
The the note I made was like OK so I guess Realistica is a real

(19:26):
place then. Oh fuck.
It must be. Yeah, because Mothra happened.
You are sitting. Here thinking about like the
geopolitical consequences of movies existing in a way none of
the rest of us are on that shit.Yeah, I don't know, because I
think that they were involved with the creation of the Maser

(19:48):
Cannon, right? So yeah.
Yeah, 'cause to fight them off, yeah.
So yeah, I thought that was cool.
Yeah. But you know, now there's a new
Godzilla and they're talking about this and like Japan needs
a new weapon to fight Godzilla because the maser cannons aren't
working. Like they don't have anything
else. So we cut to Akane.

(20:10):
She's being court martialed because she got people killed
because. Because they're dead.
So she's getting, she's getting demoted.
Now elsewhere, some scientists are looking at this trilobyte.
But it's not just a trilobyte. It's like a Cyborg trilobyte
that Professor Uhara made using,like, DNA computers, which is

(20:34):
what they kept calling it. They just kept calling it DNA
computers. I'm guessing it's.
Sure, I'm guessing it's just like they they wrote like
machines to rewrite something based on its DNA or something
using if I remember. Right.
The idea is with the DNA computers and this, and I

(20:56):
thought it was, I don't rememberif it was explained in this
movie or explained elsewhere, but the idea is because the
computer is based on DNA, it is,it thinks in base 4 instead of
like, instead of it being binary, it's it's quaternary.
That's correct. Right.

(21:16):
So it's it's a CGT instead of 01, which will allow it to
therefore be more complex computing, which is bullshit,
but it's the kind of sci-fi bullshit that I'm here for.
So yeah. Yeah, I'll allow.
Yeah. And Professor Uhara, he he's

(21:37):
he's a funny guy. They were all standing.
Look at this, looking at this trilobite, and he's sitting
there like giving a speech, facing away from them all
dramatically, and they're just not listening to him at all.
He was like, they didn't listen to me, Yeah.
So he and, and some other scientists are gathering
together because they have to, to get their, their top minds on

(21:57):
making a weapon to fight Godzilla.
And these scientists are shown the bones of the original
Godzilla. And they're like, listen, you
Hara, you need to extract a spinal cell from this skeleton.
And he's like, oh, what are you going to make a clone of
Godzilla? And they're like, no.
Well, maybe, but no. I I.

(22:18):
Love, love, love, love this shot.
I love this scene, I love this reveal.
I love how nonchalant he is about it.
Just like, hey, I need you to take a look at something for me
and then, you know, you see. Godzilla, skeleton and all the
divers. Around world's biggest fish.
Tank. It it's fantastic.

(22:39):
So they they want to make a bio robot the same basically the
same thing he did as a trilobite, but you know, more so
the the bill for the weapons development on this passes in
the diet, which I thought was interesting that they included
because I don't think that's typically included in these
movies. And Ikane is is back at back at

(22:59):
work just at a desk. Now she has to do desk work.
Yeah. She's.
In like a storage room or something, right?
Like, yeah, it's a real, it's a real very job, basically.
Yeah, Yuhara is hanging out withhis daughter Sarah, and he would
rather be a dad than make a bioweapon.
And you know what? Good for him, honestly.

(23:23):
But like, he, he's talking to her and he's like, you have many
problems, OK, you need me. Which is an interesting thing to
say to your daughter. It's very this early in the
movie feels very like I'm tryingto think of the, like, it's
uncalled for, right? But like, we will eventually

(23:46):
learn some stuff about their family where it's like, OK,
yeah, maybe you should be a gooddad to this kid.
Maybe she does have problems, yeah.
Maybe she does have some trauma,yeah.
But she's like, well, what aboutwhat about that time they let
this baseball player's kid go into the dugout with the
baseball player? So he would play baseball and

(24:09):
he's just like, huh, that's a weirdly specific thing to say.
And then some suits come in and they're like, hey, so you know,
when that baseball player had their child going to the dugout,
we want to do that for you, so you'll come work for us.
And so he's like, well, all right, and, and things, things

(24:33):
are going well, you know, but his daughter's like, why can't
they bring my mom back instead of Godzilla?
And I was like, oh, so Ikane is going back to training.
Like, she's not in the field, but she's still training just in
case, you know, she's she's still, she yearns for the

(24:53):
battlefield. And the, the minister of
technology becomes the Prime Minister just to to change the
direction of things. And basically all up until this
point, this is just kind of setting the scene for everything
that's about to happen. That's why it's so scattered.
So the year is now 2003. And the leader of Squadron

(25:17):
Kiryu, his name's Togashi, tellsAkane what's going on.
Like, we need pilots. We need good pilots.
We want you. This dude's got.
A voice of like a villain. Yeah, this dude sounds like he
should be playing like like a towering like #2 right hand thug
to like a gang boss in something.

(25:41):
Yeah, yeah, I was looking at himand I was like why is like why
is a gona guy character? Straight up it's a gona guy
character. He's even got the fucking face.
Right get. A robo ass motherfucker, Yeah.

(26:02):
He's like, we want you. And she's like, well, OK.
So they they start operational training and some people not so
happy that Ikane is part of the squad because of what happened.
You know, like the the brother of one of the soldiers that got
killed is there and basically just harasses Ikane about it
forever. But they run drills together and

(26:25):
Professor Yuhara shows up and helike he tries to hit up Ikane
before the the other soldier comes up and starts harassing
her again. And Yohara's like, listen, you
seem kind of isolated. But like she really starts
hitting it off with his daughterbecause Sarah's also kind of

(26:48):
isolated. So they kind of connect on that.
I thought it was, it was interesting because, you know,
Yohara's like you seem really isolated.
I'm into that, you know, like dochill.
Doesn't he at 1:00? Point literally just say so have
you ever thought about having some kids?
And it's like, whoa, buddy. Dial it.

(27:10):
Back 90% or something, right? Yuhara is like, listen, I'm
going to buy you dinner if Kiriyu wins or if Kiriyu loses,
and this is very important, thiswill come back up.
But I mean, he did. He does this because he seems
kind of desperate, to be honest.So MSM FS3 Kiriu is revealed to

(27:35):
the world. And I, I like serial numbers and
it's cool because it's like it'sremote controlled from the white
Heron Jets, which I remember from the fighting game because
it's controlled by The Jets in the fighting game too that we
played on the way. Yeah.

(27:57):
And so they're, they're discussing this.
Well, Godzilla is detected on approach.
And so Kiriu is launched and Kiriu has like Evangelion
battery rules basically. Like it has a battery that can
run out. And if it runs out, you have to
go to a base and get recharged. And they talk about the absolute
0 cannon which instantly freezesthings with 0 Kelvin degree

(28:19):
light particles. Once it comes the sci-fi
bullshit, I'm here for. Bitch, we got ice lasers.
Yeah, so Godzilla is heading towards Tokyo Bay and everybody
evacuates and there's a scene where like, Patsui of the Giants
just hits a home run real quick before evacuating.

(28:41):
I don't know why so. I actually can answer this.
I came for it because because one of my friends is a huge
baseball nerd and he subjects meto it.
I I love you dude, it's OK. But this is because his nickname
in Japan was Godzilla. That's like his fan name because
he was such a heavy hitter back in the day.

(29:04):
I'm dead serious, OK? Yeah, he'd.
Been he'd been nicknamed Godzilla for a very long time,
so. OK no I didn't know that.
I was like who is this guy and why?
But cool. OK so Kiryu gets dropped off to
begin combat and fires like everything, Rockets, missiles,
mouth, mazer cannon, which makesGodzilla back up a little bit.

(29:27):
Like, OK, wait a minute. But somehow Godzilla, Godzilla
like, roars. And somehow this awakens the
original Godzilla's mind inside of Kiriyu.
And Godzilla notices the hesitation and uses this
opportunity to escape back into Tokyo Bay.
So they're like, all right, we need to pick up Kiriyu.

(29:49):
So they start flying in. Kiriyu starts firing at the
herons trying to transport it back, and then they have to back
up. So Kiriyu just starts blasting
everything and the squad tries to to lure cure you away but
Heron 3 gets shot down. Which is the the brother of the
guy who died again? Yeah.

(30:11):
And. Ikane runs in to save the pilot.
And because it's that guy, he's like, why did you even bother
saving me? You know?
He's just like. Shut the fuck up.
Dude, Jesus. Get off.
Get over yourself bud. So there's an hour left before
Kiri, who's exhausted. So they just kind of have to

(30:32):
wait it out. Like they they can't get Kiriu.
They don't have anything stronger than Kiriu to stop.
I do. Love this moment because they're
like, what can we do? And it's like, we, we don't have
any way to stop this thing at this point.
So yeah, we just got to wait forit to run out of energy.
How long is that? And there's this pause as, as
she says, an hour. And like, everybody like glumly

(30:53):
looks at this countdown and it'slike you get this feeling like
this real feeling of dread of like this is the best option we
have. Oh, yeah.
It's like a shocking. It's aided.
It's aided. By the fact it's a beautiful
shot as as Kiryu makes his makesits way, makes his way over
through the wreckage of some of the city and like slowly starts

(31:14):
powering down. Oh my.
God, Kiryu's fucking walking directly through that one
skyscraper. And then, yeah, like powering
down in the sunset with the dust, like fall.
I was like, OK, you guys were kind of fucking cooking with
this shot. Yeah.

(31:34):
Can I, can I say something now that we're kind of at the end of
like, hear you powering down andwe've had this bit.
I think Kiryu is wonderfully suit acted and directed and shot
around right. I think the way he moves fits
this great blend between being robotic and like a little too

(31:57):
fluid to just be a robot in a way that maybe is accidental but
feels intentional given the previous Mechagodzilla
intentionally felt very stiff and robotic.
Both previous ones did you know,and they they they put a lot of
care into these shots that framelike cure you in these like

(32:21):
action moments and in these quiet moments.
Absolutely. By absolutely and just.
Go ahead, go ahead. I was.
I was going to say, by comparison, something's fucking
up with the way they're shootingGodzilla in this movie, right?
Godzilla's doing an awful lot oftea, posing just he's.
Just standing there menacingly. It's like, like it's the joke.

(32:44):
But in all seriousness, it it's very strange.
And I wonder if it has somethingto do with the way they were
refitting the Millennium suit and making alterations to it.
Because this is a new. Suit design, although clearly
inspired by the the 2000 and versus Megagera suit design.
But like it's it's weird becausefirst it was like, OK, he's just

(33:06):
going to sit there while the military pummels him in that
first fight. Maybe it's because he doesn't
even feel it. But then Kiryu is sitting here
just like launching off attacks and Godzilla's sitting there
like a Sprite in Pokémon waitingtill the attack is over to do a
react animation. Like it.
It's so weird. And you know what makes it?
I don't know if maybe this is a problem that we also had in

(33:28):
Godzilla 2000 and versus Mega Gear as and didn't notice as
much. But coming off of GMK where
Godzilla and GMK is so animated and expressive, right, Even when
that Godzilla is standing still,you know, he's he's fucking
Street Fighter three idol animationing, right, Like he is

(33:51):
like flexing his fingers and kind of like adjusting his
shoulders and like, you know, shifting his stance like that is
that is a very living, moving Godzilla.
And then this one feels often times like a prop so far, you
know, it's not doing a lot. And and yeah, I think, Sam, I'm

(34:13):
wondering if you're right, if it's got to do with the suit
design just not being very well suited for that kind of motion
in the way that Kiryu is. Yeah, it.
It I don't know if something's off, but you're definitely
correct. And I'm curious because I mean
not to get too ahead of ourselves but spoiler alert this

(34:34):
is a 2 parter so I'm very curious how things are going to
be in the next film and if it'llbe the same problem or not
because I have not rewatched that one yet.
Yeah, well, Kiryu has powered down and things are terrible
right now. The Prime Minister has to take
responsibility for it. He he doesn't really want to

(34:55):
resign yet, but he's like, I have to take responsibility for
this somehow. You know, Yahara figures out
that that it was the roar that caused Kiryu to malfunction.
You know, like, there's a soul in this machine, right?
And Akane believes only Kiryu can kill Godzilla.
And Yuhara is like, all right, You're you're right.

(35:18):
And I'm going to do my best for you.
Don't you worry, Akane. I got you.
Like, personally, he's so weird.Yeah, he's he's.
Simping a little bit, and I don't mean that to be mean.
I mean look, I'm I'm a huge simpmyself.
I'm professionally, but but you got to tone it down a little
bit. So Squadron Kiru finally, like

(35:41):
welcomes her to the team finally.
And it's like chastising the guywho's been harassing her this
whole time because I mean, she she did save some people this
time. And so she's doing a little bit
better. Meanwhile, Sarah's sitting with
Kiru thinking like Kiru's pitiable.
You know, it's a pity that we'verest we we've resurrected this

(36:03):
lizard, covered it in armor and they're forcing we're forcing it
to fight someone who would probably otherwise be its
friend. You know, another Godzilla.
I don't actually know that that's true, but the friend part
it is the. Way that a child would think of
things. Right, She tells her father in

(36:23):
Akane. You know, humans are responsible
for for waking up Godzilla with the with the H bomb to start
with. And now we're tampering with the
remains of the other Godzilla. And it's like, you know, she she
says adults day life is important, but they don't
believe it. But she feels kind of hard and
it's kind of true. Yeah.
You know, Yeah. Go off.

(36:45):
Kid. Yeah, and, you know, obviously
they're, they're not immediatelysupporting what she's saying.
So she storms off, she leaves. And Yuhara then explains to
Akane that when when she was 4, her her mom became I'll when she
was pregnant. And the doctor said they could
only save one of them. We can save your wife or we can

(37:06):
save your child. And Yuhara was like, OK, save my
wife. And meanwhile, you know, the
wife wanted to save the baby andSarah wanted them both to live.
Ultimately they both died. And so Sarah has pretty bad
trauma about all of us. And she's, she's really attached

(37:27):
to like life and the concept of death and all that.
Yeah, I think your. Your mom dying along with your
newborn sibling will will kind of give you a complex and it
gets fair, yeah. Yeah, So Akane goes to talk to
her and she's like, I, I feel like my life is pretty

(37:49):
worthless, which is like, why would you say that to her?
But so, you know, Sarah gets madabout that, and it's like, no
life can be worthless, includingyours.
Like, what are you talking about?
And that gives Kanye something to talk about.
So she's going to Mull that over.
Godzilla starts circling back toTokyo and is discovered by a
ship. Sonar and the military tries to

(38:12):
fight off. Godzilla loses.
As always, Godzilla just does not care about this.
Like, this just does not work. I'm surprised they're still
trying. Yeah.
I. I don't.
I don't know what they expected,given that none of their
military actions so far against Godzilla in this movie have even
slowed him down. Yeah, I honestly think in terms

(38:34):
of like if we were going to be like power scaler people, I
think this Godzilla is like one of the strongest ones just
because it just doesn't care about anything the military is
throwing at it at all. But it's.
Also, well, I mean, that's kind of how Godzilla tends to react.
But again, like how much of thatis just them not telling
Godzilla to react until after the pyrotechnics have blown up,

(38:55):
Right? Sure.
Yeah, I do. Wonder if we have like a
direction problem here, because yeah.
Even. Even if the suit can't move
much, the fact that Godzilla will often just completely
ignore all attacks until the round is over and then like

(39:16):
whoa, you know it's. I don't know.
Yeah. So people are trying to evacuate
because Godzilla's here and because the people are in
danger, the chief of staff of the of Squadron Kiriu goes and
he he goes directly to the PrimeMinister is like, we need to
launch Kiriu. And the Prime Minister is like,

(39:39):
I don't know. I don't really want to deal with
that again, like the stuff that just happened.
But, you know, he hesitates for a minute and he's walking away
and he's like, all right, launchKiriu.
It's really our only chance at this point.
So Akane and everybody sorties Sarah like shakes Akane's hand
trying to support her. Kiryu gets launched and they
head to Tokyo, but Godzilla is is closing in on some evacuating

(40:03):
civilians. Like they're not planning to
drop yet, but Akane's like, all right, we got to go now.
So they they drop Kiryu into battle.
And Kiryu launches from the sky like directly into Godzilla.
Like like a missile. Basic so.
Cool shoulder. Slam.
It's incredible. Straight up dynamic entry, yeah.
And you know that that's right as Godzilla was trying to charge

(40:26):
up an atomic breath to to kill everyone.
So the the evacuation finishes, so they're clear to fire.
So Godzilla just starts firing everything except for the
absolute 0 cannon. Because I haven't said this
prior but it it if it has like 100% energy, the absolute 0
cannon takes about 40% of it. They can only really fire it

(40:46):
once reasonably and do everything else.
So they grapple and despite taking some some missile damage
to the sides and like Maser a maser cannon to the front,
Godzilla atomic breaths carry you onto the ground.
And Godzilla then starts attacking like the the cannons

(41:07):
coming off of Kiriu's backpack because it's got like this
backpack with two cannons on it.And then Kiriu pulls out this
like electrified blade. Kiriu has got some fucking
gizmos I really appreciate because yeah, you you've got
like the the classic like mouth laser kind of move in the

(41:29):
absolute 0 cannon, but also the wrist mounted lasers and the
shoulder cannons and missiles out of fucking everywhere.
And and now the, the the electric like knife prod.
It's very reminiscent of, I meanagain, like the last two
Mechagodzilla's were also just chock full of of Inspector

(41:52):
Gadget bullshit. Absolutely.
But I think there is something different about Kiryu
specifically that stands out to me with the way, you know,
shoved full of weapons with the other two Mechagodzilla's,
especially the very first one ofof course, it kind of just felt
like, you know, you were watching a firework factory blow
up with all this nonsense happening at once.

(42:15):
With Kiryu, it's layers and I appreciate that.
It's almost as if, you know, it was designed in mind of, oh,
Godzilla is going to take that weapon off of you or you're
going to run out of missiles there, so just drop it.
And so the more Kiryu takes damage superficially, the more
it reveals, you know, smaller weapons underneath that, like
the knife blade. Yeah.
I just think it's a very cool design.

(42:36):
Yeah. Kiryu.
'S got like the backpack full ofrockets and shit, but then when
Kiryu dumps the backpack, Kiryu has more missiles on its back
that it could not fire if the backpack was on right?
Like exactly. Yeah, they, they anticipated
that Kiryu would see some scrap in this, you know?
It also feels very inspired, like in a way that the first two

(42:59):
Mechagodzilla's were. Well, the first Mechagodzilla
was just like we made a robot Godzilla that is got crazy shit
packed into every square inch ofit.
And the 90s Mechagodzilla is very much just a modernization
of that. Kiryu feels very inspired by
like Mecca anime in that way, right.
And like spoiler alert. But there's a lot of Mecca anime

(43:21):
influence, specifically Evangelion in this movie anyway,
that we're going to talk about. But but in so many other ways,
like Kiryu feels very inspired by stuff like Gundam as well.
You know, I mean, especially that backpack is a very Gundam
esque, sort of like add on. But yeah.

(43:42):
That backpack straight off a guntank, you know.
So having forced Kiryu onto its back, Godzilla walks up to
deliver a beam and one of the herons like, interrupts it so it
can't do it do its beam attack. Kiryu launches it like launches
the back unit off of itself, like a rocket, like the whole
backpack. Yeah.

(44:04):
Like ramming itself into Godzilla, forcing it back, and
then Kiriu leaps over Godzilla, zaps its face, and then he gets
some punches in. Like the the amount of movement
that Kiriu does in this comparedto Godzilla is crazy.
It's it's got to it's. Got to be a suit thing.
It's got to be. That's all I can think of

(44:24):
because Kiriu's out here fuckingShmoven and it's shot.
Well, with Kiriu, so the more I think about it, I don't honestly
think it's a direction problem. Now, maybe it's a little of
both, but I mean, still it's yeah, Kiryu is the star of this
fucking movie for sure. Absolutely, yeah.
So Godzilla's like getting bodied, Kiryu does a does a so

(44:47):
long a Bowser, you know. Straight.
Up so Kiryu's energy is at 45% at this point and they're like
all right, we have to fire the absolute 0 cannon now.
We're not going to get another chance to do this, but
unfortunately Kiryu I wrote is animation locked.
Can't can't get that off yet. So Godzilla hits it with a

(45:12):
breath attack and like it's kyu gets launched away.
It's the the gift that that Sam put in the chat.
Earlier. Is launched away, is like
flipping backwards, accidentallyfires the cannon and and
destroys several buildings. He's locked in the T pose in the
firing animation, so right, you know.

(45:33):
And so here you having flown away and and crashing into the
ground becomes completely uncontrollable.
And economy is like, all right, I have to board Kiriu and pilot
it manually at this point. Sick.
Sick, sick, sick, sick, sick. Sick sicko, yes.
And so they're like, all right, what we're going to have to do
is we're going to drain all the power in the city to revitalize

(45:54):
Kiriu. We have to.
We have to drain all the power from Tokyo 3 to fire and scan.
With the Angel. You know, so, so the ground
units are all just attacking Godzilla just to distract
Godzilla long enough so Ikane can get into this cockpit like
and and pilot Kiryu and she getsin there and Ikane starts

(46:15):
talking to Kiryu and is like, listen, you know me, right?
We're friends. I need you to stand up.
So Kiryu starts to stand up, butGodzilla blasted immediately in
the back, knocks it right back down and Iconne starts to pass
out but then remembers basicallythat everyone's counting on her.

(46:35):
You know, like everybody flashesin her head like she needs to
get up. So she gets up.
Kiryu gets up, Godzilla starts to fire again.
But then his name is Hayama. I haven't really mentioned his
name but the guy who harasses Iconne every 3 minutes dives his
hair and into into Godzilla's mouth and he's like you have to

(46:57):
fire the absolute 0 cannon rightnow.
Like don't worry about me, he's clearly ready to die.
He's been complaining about being alive this whole time.
That's cool. I'm ready.
For him to die so you know. But instead I caught a like
pilot's cure you flies into Godzilla while the absolute 0

(47:17):
cannon charges pulls the Heron out of Godzilla's mouth.
And I thought Heyama had died atthis point because there was
like a mid air explosion but he doesn't, he ejected.
Off screen. He did and so like here you just
like launches towards Godzilla like basically carries Godzilla
over Tokyo Bay and they crash into the Bay.

(47:42):
Akane fires the Absolute 0 cannon while they're underwater
and it creates this giant spiral, this giant ice pillar.
Extremely. Cool.
Very cool. And then it starts falling
apart, like it just crumbles down.
And then there's a silence for asecond, but then Godzilla rises

(48:04):
from the ice like it has a woundin his chest, but he's alive.
But Godzilla's like, all right, that's a gnarly.
Wound in his chest too. Yeah, it's it's.
The most beat up we've seen? Millennium Godzilla again.
Oh. Absolutely.
It's more beat up than like in terms of like a a single obvious

(48:25):
wound. It's probably one of the most
like, egregious ones we've ever seen on Godzilla.
Yeah, probably that's but that'swhy I'm that's why I'm saying
like I feel this one. I feel like this one's a really
beefy Godzilla. And in terms of just being able
to tank stuff because it's hurt,it gets up, it just starts
walking away. It's just like, all right, I get

(48:47):
it. I'm leaving.
I I. I'm a head out.
I've had enough of this shit. So Godzilla's retreating into
the ocean. Kiryu, like, rises up behind it.
And honestly, it shot. Like, you think Kiryu's about to
finish him off, right? But Kiryu's totally mangled,
can't continue the fight. Like, arms busted, everything's

(49:08):
broken. We can't keep going.
So they're like, all right, don't pursue.
You did a great job. They send a team out to rescue
Wakani and the prime minister's like, look, we didn't kill Kiriu
or we didn't kill Godzilla with Kiriu, but it did manage to
drive Godzilla away. So we finally have a defence
against Godzilla, which is something.

(49:32):
Sarah's crying because the, you know, mostly because there was a
battle. I think just because there was
violence is what it seems like. Yeah.
Iconic gets out on the Kiriu shoulder and there's like a cool
shot where she's looking over the ocean.
Right you. Fucking iconic shot.
Love it. Yeah.
And then there's credits, but then there's an after credits
scene. And so Akane watches Kuru while

(49:58):
while it's getting repaired and Yuhara and Sierra come over to
see her. And Akane is like, thank you for
giving me strength and remindingme that I have worth basically.
And Yuhara was like, all right, well, I guess Kuru won.
So I guess I get to take you to dinner and and she's like, wait,
no, Kuru didn't win. It was a draw, so I'm going to

(50:18):
take you to dinner. Oh.
Yeah, fun, fun, yeah. So you are like high fives his
daughter because he finally rizzed the Kane and then the
Kane like salutes cure you before leaving and that's the
end of the movie. You know what?
I. Respect it.
I too only ever managed to riz women up by being a complete

(50:41):
loser and somehow winning by accident.
No, he's a massive dork. I.
Think it's really interesting that the movie so clearly ends
basically not because Godzilla was actually defeated, but

(51:01):
because Godzilla simply decided it wasn't worth it to keep
trying. Right, 'cause like, I think
Godzilla could have finished cure you off pretty easy at this
point. And instead Godzilla just goes
like, like Sam said, I'm a head out, I'm done for today.
Dinner's waiting. Yeah, it's, I mean with that.

(51:25):
Wound, you know, I think even the military could have done
something, maybe. Maybe, maybe.
I think it's interesting, like we're we kind of have argued
back and forth about like, again, we're not like power,
power scalers, but like this Godzilla, it's hard to tell
what's it's hard to tell becauselike Godzilla's giving us
nothing, right? Go girl, give us nothing in this

(51:48):
movie. We're not getting a lot of like
a lot of movement. We're not getting a lot of
history out of out of you know this how you know what, what
Godzilla has done and this Godzilla's done in the past.
Godzilla's tough as hell. But like beyond that, this movie
doesn't tell us much about Godzilla.

(52:10):
Godzilla's maybe the least one of the least invested in
versions of Godzilla so far. Which is interesting because
that new suit is fucking expensive.
Y'all that new suit that they use for this movie?
Yeah, I think I remember readingit's like one of the most
expensive Godzilla suits ever made 'cause there's so many

(52:34):
animatronics in the face and head for all the smaller like
facial expressions it can make, which only gets shown off a
couple times, I feel like. Yeah.
Yeah, definitely. Like, that's a lot of
advancements in technology and, you know, puppeteering and all
that for something you don't really use outside of two or
three small but important moments.

(52:57):
I mean they made a lot of reallyintentional adjustments to
Godzilla's design, like stickingto that Millennium era design
but intentionally going back to the classic dark grey.
The classic like grey to white spines instead of the Rose
tinted ones. The right losing.
Losing that hue going back to, Imean, granted they'd already
gone back to blue fire for GMK, but GMK was very different, so I

(53:20):
think it's still significant that they chose to stick with
the blue here instead of the theeyes.
And the head shape have shifted somewhat.
You know, we went from like the cat like eyes to almost more
bird like. You look kind of like eagle eyes
a little bit, yeah. Still got that cobra hood on the
neck though. Yeah.
Very, very predatory looking. Yeah, very.

(53:42):
Very Millennium era affectation,the Cobra hood.
Yeah, it's just very interesting'cause they put so much money
into this Godzilla and Kiri, youcan't have been cheap either.
Like that's a pretty crazy suit that they built up.
I mean, it's, it's, it's, I got to look at it real quick because

(54:05):
like, I do think there are stillparts where you can see.
I think Kiryu is a smart design because if you look at it, you
can see where it's parts on likea black bodysuit underneath that
kind of give the actor on like alittle bit more freedom of

(54:27):
motion than like the very bulky previous two Mechagodzilla suits
that were like, you know, big bulky mechanical parts butted
right up against big bulky mechanical parts.
You know which. Again, you brushed on this
earlier, Derek, but that again, just sells the idea that, hey,

(54:47):
this isn't, this isn't quite 100% a robot.
There's something else going on here.
This is a little too Smith. Yeah.
Well, and to our point, right, like we said that Kiryu moves
better than Godzilla does, and we see so much more motion and
posing out of Kiryu than out of Godzilla.
And like, maybe a big part of that is that Kiriu is just like

(55:13):
the suit is better designed for movement at those joints than
this big, bulky padded Godzilla suit.
Yeah. But I think something.
That's really cool. It's just a small thing, but the
fact that Kiriu has like bone teeth.
Yes. Yes, definitely I missed.

(55:33):
That Kiriu. 'S.
Teeth are the like the OG Godzilla's teeth is what they're
supposed to be. Have you?
Never noticed that. Yeah, when it when it does, like
the Maser cannon attack, I was like, whoa, those are bone
teeth. Like they just built the armor
around Godzilla I had. The exact same reaction.
Holy. Dick and a half they are.
How have I never noticed that? Wow yo that's sick.

(55:57):
I love that. That's a great bit.
Yeah, God. Damn.
Which kind of leads us to a. Topic that's sort of been
lurking this whole time, which is the Evangelion of it all,
yeah. Look, so here's the deal.
These days it's not weird to like tie Godzilla and Evangelion

(56:18):
together. That's become very normalized.
I think this is, as far as I canfigure, the first like official
piece of Godzilla media to heavily draw from Evangelion.
Cause Ava is God. When is Ava on the air?

(56:39):
It's late 90s, mid 90s, nineteen. 6090. 5 to 95 to 96 so
we're talking towards the end actually, I think the the
Godzilla versus Destroyer would already be done right.
So you really only have Godzilla2000, Godzilla versus Megagiris,
GMK leading up to this. But this is like very much the

(57:06):
the Evangelion inspiration's undeniable.
Like Charlotte, you were textingme just like, this is just Ava.
Like they built, they built the robot around the decayed
biological remains of the monster and it goes berserk and
it needs to run out of power Andlike, yeah, they and.
They have to drain the cities ofpower to to use a.

(57:27):
Weapon. It's in like a giant container
and gets carried around by jets with wires and like and and.
The pilot has issues with their self worth.
Even. Some of the shots of like her
climbing up into the suit and and all that it's, it's very, I
mean it's not inspired by some of them are near 1 to 1.
And I don't mean that as a no, no, no, I mean.
It's it's clear that that's likea heavy piece of inspiration

(57:48):
that this movie drew from. And like also at this point you
will just like you will see there are like official hear you
recolors of like the Ava units right as figures.
That's that's just a thing that's been a thing for a while.

(58:09):
And it's like it's always cure you.
Cure you is the thing that gets tied in with Evangelion that and
Shin Godzilla for obvious reasons of, of Hideyakiano's
involvement later on. Yeah.
But yeah, it's just super interesting and.
And I do. The way they airlift you is also
like, you know, they airlift theAvas.

(58:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, under the battlefield.
Several times. Literally, I mean.
Again, just like jets with cables, you know, Vtols with
cables, like dropping it in. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's, it's so clearly heavily inspired by Ava.
And like, it's interesting because now in my mind, I'm
going to. I hadn't seen, I hadn't watched

(58:53):
Evangelion when I first watched these movies.
So I'm going to have to like payattention going forward to,
well, let's see. I don't think there's actually
really many. There's really only two more
Japanese Godzilla movies before Shin Godzilla.

(59:16):
And I mean, spoiler alert, one of them is a direct sequel to
this one, right? So yeah, it's it's going to be
just an interesting thing to keep my eyes on, but yeah.
And. Not to good, not to cut to like
the Part 2 that's looming even more than we already have.
But like, I do think it's slightly disappointing perhaps

(59:37):
that they don't thematically do more with the fact that Kiryu is
its own agent, that there's something else going on in
there. But to my recollection, that is
going to be rectified hard. Yeah, the movie in the film
that's coming, almost. Feels, I don't want to say
unfinished in its plot, but it feels bare bones, right?

(59:59):
Very. Firmly a Part 1, which is weird.
I don't know. So I know they had greenlit 3
more Godzilla movies. I don't know that they
immediately knew they were making a sequel to this movie or
not. I don't go forward to look at
like production stuff or trivia on future movies.
I want to hit that when I hit it.

(01:00:20):
But I mean, I could not find anything that said that this was
greenlit as like a 2 parter. Maybe they'd hoped.
Maybe they had, like, a bunch. Of ideas left on the cutting.
Room floor that they wanted to come back to but yeah man you
know and and like. Yeah, I don't know, like it's

(01:00:41):
the Evangelion references and stuff like that.
Like that's always going to be something that's going to stick
out to me. I don't.
Did I? Have I talked about my my time
with the Evangelion wiki on thispodcast?
No. Have I told you about it?
No, Derek, I wrote most of the. Original like.
English Evangelion wiki pages. You can see my you can see my

(01:01:02):
old you remember my old personasname?
Yeah, yeah, that if you look at the earliest revision.
History. My name is all OH.
My God. Incredible.
Just. Incredible.
No, no, New Charlotte Lord just dropped 10 out of 10.
I wrote it during computer class.
In middle school? Oh fuck yeah.
Well, what else were we doing inmiddle school?
Computer. Class other than playing fucking

(01:01:23):
JavaScript games, yeah Oh shit man, that's some throwback
times. It's also interesting because
like, yes. This movie is very heavily.
Inspired by Evangelion, but likeagain, I think that this is also
a A. This shows some broader like

(01:01:47):
cultural recognition of Mecca ingeneral and not just Ava.
Again, everything around like the backpack and the armor
pieces is very Gundam coated. You said it kind of reminds you
of like the back piece on the gun tank.
I'm heavily reminded of like thethe armor parts for the double
Zeta, right? You know, down to even like that

(01:02:10):
they had to make them blue. You know, the the shape of a lot
of the add on parts for Kiryu isvery Gundam coded, right, or
other like real robot of the time, but all of that's inspired
by Gundam. So and then the the shot in
particular towards the end of Akane, like sitting on the

(01:02:33):
shoulder looking out over the ocean on on with Kiryu is very,
very classic, like super robot coded, you know, like and
there's a goon a guy character in the movie.
I'm. Sorry, but like you've you've.
You've. Made that connection and I.
Can't Unsee that this dude is just meant to be like a fucking

(01:02:55):
get a robo guy. Like his face is just.
People's faces aren't shaped like that normally, you know
what I mean? They had to find this guy.
Yeah, but yeah, I think that this is like a movie.
That that clearly pulls. While Evangelion like was recent
and had really revitalized Meccaand like, rewritten a lot of how

(01:03:19):
people view Mecca at the time. And Gundam was kind of on a
downswing. Cause 2002 was like Gundam Seed,
right? Like not exactly, Yeah, exactly,
literally exactly Gundam Seed. So yeah, like it makes sense
that they're going to pull so heavily from Ava, but it's just
interesting. I'm going to have to pay more
attention to this moving forwardbecause it is an an aspect of

(01:03:42):
Godzilla fandom that I have always ignored and written off
because I'm not as much of an Ava fan and, and I want to, I
want to observe that growth out of this moment.
I think so will not surprise youall is fucking as soon as this

(01:04:03):
movie came out like hey it was pretty successful like it did.
It did not like GM K levels of well, but it did good.
And Kiryu is immediately like the Mecca Godzilla, right?
Kiryu's the one. Like, unless you're an old head
and you really, really have a soft spot for the 70s

(01:04:24):
Mechagodzilla like I do, Kiryu is the one you think of when you
think of a Mechagodzilla these days.
He's he's the representative Mechagodzilla in fucking
anything. Yeah, I think for good.
Even even Godzilla save the earth.
Which actually does have. Another Mechagodzilla and it has

(01:04:44):
the the 90s from Godzilla versusMechagodzilla to the the the
Hysi, which they actually even they mix a lot of the original.
Mechagodzilla in with that one. It's kind of a hybrid.
It's a very strange hybrid. Yeah.
Could like like the finger rockets?
And all that. But even then, Kiryu is
rightfully the poster. Yeah.

(01:05:07):
Yeah. I so here's.
Here's kind of my question. Like, do we think the movie's
good? I think.
So I think it's fun, I think it's enjoyable.
I wish Godzilla was a bit more mobile, a bit more active.
That's going to be addressed in a different later Millennium

(01:05:28):
film that anymore. But but like, I, I whatever
deficiencies there are in Godzilla's action cure you
rocks, man. He he more than makes up for it.
It's such a cool premise. It's such a cool and idea.
It's such an iconic look. Yeah, it's it's just a lot of
fun. I think this movie addresses.
Almost every almost every issue I had with Godzilla versus

(01:05:51):
Megagiris, right. Godzilla versus Megagiris is
unevenly paced. It doesn't make a lot of sense.
A lot of its own sci-fi bullshitdoes not hold up to like it it.
Their sci-fi bullshit is is nonsensical in a way that I
can't hand wave. You know, the fight sequences

(01:06:17):
are so much better. Like directed.
There is a better human element connection.
The requisite child character issomebody that has much like an
emotional reason to be connectedto these characters in the story
instead of just being there because they were like, we got
to have a kid in this movie. Kids might watch it.
They're like a kid. She does things that make sense.

(01:06:42):
I just think that this is, I wouldn't call it like one of the
strongest Godzilla movies, but Ithink this team clearly learned
from Godzilla versus Mega Gear as and the like production
circumstances behind that movie and really adjusted for this

(01:07:02):
one. And I think it paid off.
I also think having an extra year, right, I don't know that
they were working on this for the full 2 years since versus
Mega Gears was done. But they didn't have to turn
around. And as soon as they were
finished with one movie, get working on the next movie and
then maybe gave him some breathing room to actually line
up what they were doing. So you're curious about you,

(01:07:28):
your thoughts, Charlotte? I mean, I think.
It's a step forward, I do. I thought it was a fun movie.
I think that it doesn't hit someof the high highs we've had in
the past. But I mean, I like it.
Yeah. I I really, I really like Kiryu.
Like, as as a design. This is the Kiryu movie.

(01:07:49):
I mean, it's the Kiryu movie. And I liked the main character's
design. Essentially, so, you know,
starring Godzilla as an obstaclethat sometimes has.
To get blasted out of the way, like, yeah, yeah.
Like, I don't think this is going into the top five, but.
Or anything but like it's firmlyin the middle of the pack.

(01:08:09):
It's it's far from the worst. There's a lot to like.
It knows what it is. This film is tightly pasted and
it knows what I think if I was going to ask more from this
movie. And I've only seen the next.
Movie once. So I don't, I, I am not here to
tell you this is what happens, but having watched this movie, I

(01:08:30):
feel like I would want a, a better treatment of Godzilla
himself, right? In terms of Godzilla has got to
feel more alive and more of an impact other than just being.
Like a thing that shows up. And has to be driven away.
And then on the other hand, I would want to dig more into like

(01:08:56):
the, I'm not saying like give mefull existential, like
philosophical observation of what it means to be alive, but
they kind of gesture at that, right?
They're like, they're gesturing in that direction.
And you've got a robot built around the biology and and DNA
memory of the original Godzilla.Like do something a little bit

(01:09:19):
more interesting with Kiryu being, you know, like, like you
all said, like it's own being, you know, that straddles this
line between live and not. And maybe the next movie will do
something with that. But you know, I think I think
this is a good movie, but it it falls short of greatness.

(01:09:41):
But it's a good time. Yep.
And it's got fucking carry you in it.
That's that's enough the fight. Scenes alone are worth it
because carry you fucking that shot where carry you drops and
then like Superman flies in. So good.
Yeah, looks very much like the scenes of Godzilla swimming in
earlier movies, but it's cure you in the sky.

(01:10:02):
Very good shit. And I mean something.
Like this episode? It didn't take me that long to
to go through the plot. This is kind of a simple plot,
kind of short movie for the movie.
Like, even by Godzilla standards, it's.
Like 85 minutes I think, including credits.
Like. Yeah.
You know, it's, it's not, it's, it's, there's not a ton.

(01:10:24):
Of substance, but. Maybe there's something to that.
The fact that they made something that was trim and
pretty good at the thing it was trying to be, right, right.
Godzilla versus Megagiras was trim and also dog ass.
So, you know, like. You could be.
Worse, you know, normally we would, we would kind of end up

(01:10:51):
talking about like what we thinkare the interesting thematic
elements. But like, like we kind of just
talked about it's kind of obvious what they were going
for. They wanted to gesture towards
like questions about life and like the the inherent worth of
life and what makes something alive.
They just didn't fully string ittogether, you know, like.

(01:11:14):
With with Sarah's. Plant.
Yeah, You know, they're like, oh, when you touch it, it moves
like they're trying to make a point here.
They just didn't make the point.And like I, I think it's OK to
do. That you know, I don't.
I actually kind of have an issuewith the fact that everything
seems like it has to be spelled out nowadays, but that's a
different, entirely different story.
Sure, some people need that. Media literacy is at an all time

(01:11:37):
low these days. There are people that think that
Zilla is pro nationalist like. Speaking of Speaking of which,
on that note, like, it's definitely.
I don't want to say lip service that feels demeaning, but like
they they don't do much with it.But I did think it was
interesting that when they're debating the budget of how this

(01:11:58):
project is going to be funded, there is some yelling about how
the world is going to see this as Japan fully rearming, which
is just an interesting thematic.I mean, it's if nothing else,
given the historical. Context of God.
It's a thing that you have to if.
If you're making a movie and youwant to think about the actual
political realities of the worldof like the current day world at

(01:12:20):
the time you're making this, youknow, that's a thing that you
have to acknowledge other countries would see and get a
little nervous about, right? And like you said.
They don't do anything with that.
It's. The briefest of moments, but
like, it is at least a recognition that that Memora

(01:12:42):
thought a little deeper than normal.
I mean, this is this is the samewriter who did the previous
Mechagodzilla movie, right? Like, look at the difference in
thought between the, hey, say, Mechagodzilla movie and this one
big towel. Yeah, it's it's no versus

(01:13:06):
destroyer, right? It's no GMK, but like somebody
was attempting to cook in this kitchen and, you know, steps
were definitely made in the right direction.
So yeah, I just wish I. I'm with you, Charlotte.
I'm glad that they didn't, like,have a Kane spell it out while
sitting on Kiryu's shoulder looking out over the ocean.

(01:13:28):
It is something several kids would fucking do.
But, you know, I wish that they had done slightly more in
particular with addressing the question of is cure you alive or
not. And the good news is we have a
whole another movie that might retroactively resolve a lot of

(01:13:49):
that for us. Maybe we'll find out.
This was intentionally a part one of two, setting up a much
better grander sequel. We'll find out eventually.
So I don't know what about this movie's going to stick with you.
What's the what's the thing you're going to think about when
somebody brings up Godzilla against Mechagodzilla in the
future? In particular.

(01:14:15):
Fucking powering down in the sunset with the dust and debris
like blowing off of his head in the wind.
Iconic shot and and and you knowwhat as a dark.
Horse shot I'll mention, I think.
Godzilla in the typhoon at the very beginning is very great.
That's great. It's always, always good when

(01:14:36):
Godzilla's at night. In a storm, it's it's always
good for me. Never once has that not hit
pretty good. I will grant you that one.
Well then, folks. That is a wrap.
On this episode, thank you all so much for joining us on our
journey so far. Sam, where could people find
you? And do you have anything to

(01:14:57):
plug? Yeah, so you can.
Find me over. On Blue Sky at Samuel Talbert
dot bsky dot social. Pretty easy to find, just search
me up. Follow me.
I'm either posting about stuff I've written or my cat Blue, or
about food or painting my enormous backlog of Warhammer

(01:15:17):
figurines. So if you're interested in any
of those topics, please come talk to me.
And As for things to plug, I just wrote, well, you know what,
I don't want to date exactly date this, but I will say I am
well, OK, you know, I, I think Ican say this and it's.
OK, I I. Recently in the last couple of

(01:15:38):
weeks wrote a review on South ofMidnight which is a great game.
I'm really looking forward to playing that.
I went to install it today and realized that I need to.
Wait a couple days before I can do that, so fuck hanging out.
You can follow me on Blue Sky at.
Derek Van Dyke dot B Sky dot Social and you can follow me at

(01:16:00):
Blood. Dot dole dot church if.
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