May 29, 2025 • 27 mins
Scaling your agency doesn’t always require a bigger team or ad budget—it might just take smarter tools and systems. In this episode, I sit down with tech founder and agency owner Jeff Vanasdal, who built three AI-powered tools—BotMockups, ListBuilder.ai, and HelpDocs.ai—to eliminate bottlenecks, close more deals, and drive recurring revenue growth with zero ad spend.
Jeff didn’t start by building for others—he created these tools to fix his own fulfillment overwhelm. Then he scaled them. You’ll hear the story of how one hyper-personalized chatbot demo landed his first major client, launched his agency, and led to a fully systemized operation where his team now runs day-to-day without him.
We dig into building tools that sell, simplifying client acquisition, and the mindset shift from operator to CEO. If you're still in the weeds, Jeff’s story is your blueprint for scaling lean, leading with clarity, and creating margin to grow beyond yourself.
Connect with Jeff Vanasdal
Explore the AI tools Jeff built to help agency owners automate client acquisition and scale without ads. Follow him on Facebook or Instagram to learn more about BotMockups, ListBuilder.ai, and HelpDocs.ai.
Books Mentioned
- Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martell
- Software Is Your Future (referred to as “Software as a Science” in the episode) by Dan Martell
🔗 Connect with Jeff Vanasdal
Want to see how Jeff is helping agency owners automate lead generation and scale with AI tools? Follow him on Facebook or Instagram for behind-the-scenes insight into BotMockups, ListBuilder.ai, and HelpDocs.ai.
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
- Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:
Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
- Special Offer:
Get your FREE copy of Catalytic Leadership: 12 Keys to Becoming an Intentional Leader Who Makes a Difference.
Connect with Dr. William Attaway:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. William Attaway (00:00):
It is an honor today to have Jeff Vanosel
on the podcast.
Jeff is a serial entrepreneur,a tech founder and the creative
mind behind multiple AI-poweredplatforms, including BotMockups,
listbuilderai and HelpDocsai.
With a strong background inmarketing and a passion for
(00:20):
building tools that solvereal-world problems, jeff helps
e-commerce brands and agenciesuse AI to drive growth, boost
engagement and scale smarter.
His latest venture, bot Mockups, allows marketing agencies to
create interactive chatbot demosin minutes, helping them close
(00:42):
more deals without techheadaches.
Helpdocsai offers AI-drivencustomer support that turns FAQ
content into instantconversational help, and
ListBuilderai helps onlinebrands to grow email and SMS
(01:03):
lists with little to no ad spend.
Jeff brings a uniqueperspective to leadership,
blending innovation, resilienceand a deep commitment to helping
others win.
Jeff, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Jeff Vanasdal (01:15):
Hey, thanks, man, I appreciate it.
That intro was pretty coolhearing all that because
day-to-day I'm just in the grindand pretty awesome for those
tools I just created essentiallyfor myself.
Now it's offering those toother marketing agencies.
Intro / Outro (01:34):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the
podcast designed to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:52):
Well, let's dive into that.
I would love for you to share alittle bit of your story with
our listeners, particularlyaround your journey and your
development as a leader.
How'd you get started?
Jeff Vanasdal (02:04):
Well, uh, that's a good question, because I
remember when I didn't know whata sales funnel was, but I was
already building them and, um, Iguess we can go back.
This is probably, I guess, fiveyears ago.
I started uh shooting uhpictures at snowball races and I
(02:28):
would have to set up the, thebooth for makita tools and rocks
or energy.
And they set up a booth, theylike display the, the latest
tools, and they always give awaya big prize every year for um
like uh sign up to win like asnowmobile or a side-by-side or
ATV, and then some little prizeslike tools, sets, all that.
(02:52):
And one thing I realized a lotof people I mean they were
giving away swag left and rightfor no rhyme or reason, just oh,
hey, here's a sticker, here's akoozie, and I thought it would
be pretty cool to gamify thesystem and actually try to get
more people down to the booth,because oftentimes the booth was
, you know, outside of thestands a little bit uh.
So what I did was I built thisapp where it was right, when QR
(03:15):
codes scanners became native onyour, your iPhone or Android too
, and I built this app where itwould go to a landing page.
Someone fell out.
Form Sounds pretty standardright now, but that was to win
the big prize.
Well, I gamified it, where thenext step was to spin a wheel
(03:35):
and I can control theprobability of that wheel and
the slices.
So say, I only brought like 10hoodies to the event and 200
koozies, 300 stickers.
I could control the probabilityof what it lands on and also
say, uh, it landed on the hoodie10 times.
I only have 10 hoodies.
(03:56):
Well, it would boot that sliceout of the system, which would
be nice.
Uh, from me like, hey, guys, Iwant a hoodie.
And like, hey, oh, sorry, man,we're out, here's a sticker.
It's like I hate that.
Uh so, and then I had therockstar energy models that were
on other races.
I gave them all business cardswith the qr code on them and
(04:19):
sent them up in the stands andhanded them out, and then people
were entered to win.
So it increased the amount ofemails and SMS we got and put
traffic into the booth.
So that was my first, I guess,problem and it was essentially a
sales funnel and I had no cluewhat that even was.
Dr. William Attaway (04:38):
And now you're diving all the way in on
AI.
Jeff Vanasdal (04:43):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Every day is full of AI.
So what drove?
Dr. William Attaway (04:48):
you that direction.
Jeff Vanasdal (04:50):
Well, I've been building chatbots for almost a
decade now.
This was before AI, so I wasusing an app called Minichat and
I really enjoyed that.
And one thing I was using Minmini chat for is to grow the
email and sms list.
I just I love that.
That strategy, because you havea pure metric to go off of is
(05:14):
like how many emails can I get?
Uh, and that's how I wasgrowing the email smbestos for
uh different companies acrossthe board.
Um, one in particular was for amed spa.
It was just a $500 gift cardgiveaway, zero ad spend, like
you mentioned earlier.
Uh, and we ended up getting anadditional 20, $20,000 worth of
(05:38):
business for in one week.
Wow, zero ad spend.
So that was one of the things.
And then, when ai rolled out, Iwas like, wow, there's so much
uh you could do here, and thennow it's full ai chatbots across
the board.
And, like this morning, I wasjust building a new app with no
code software to build.
This isn't using, like you know, chat, gpt or uh, claude, but
(06:03):
you use that to essentiallybuild an app or a website rather
than hard coding everything.
Dr. William Attaway (06:10):
That's remarkable.
Yeah, so tell me about botmock-ups.
This is this is your newestpiece.
Jeff Vanasdal (06:17):
Yeah, but uh.
That's been in my head forabout oh ever since I started
building the, the chat, and howI really broke into that world
or my marketing agency full-time.
This was 2020, right when COVIDhit, and previously I was
(06:37):
somehow laying at the job with amajor manufacturer called
Can-Am they're like Yamaha orHonda and I was in charge of the
social media which they had atthe time around 4 million
followers between Facebook,Instagram and Twitter.
It was like a dream job becauseI had to drive ATVs and
sideways sides all over theworld and all the commercials
(07:01):
and then shoot photography andthen run the social media which
I've been writing ATV since Iwas eight.
So it was a dream job.
Yeah, right, Whatever happened.
And then COVID hit and thenthey thought the industry was
going to go under, so they let abunch of people go and I'll
(07:23):
bring it back and around here ina second.
But I had to figure somethingout.
While I was sitting on the backporch at the time and I was
just scrolling through Instagram, I saw a story with Kevin
Harrington from one of the OGs.
He was having an event with aguy I knew at the time a great
guy Nick Long is his name.
I was like, hmm, I could dosomething with this.
(07:45):
So what I did was I clicked onthe ad.
The ad went to a landing pagethat was built in ClickFunnels
and it just had a form to fillout to come to the event.
Well, I took all the samequestions that were on the form
and turned it into a chatbot.
But I took it one step further.
I made a brand new instagramaccount with the event name and
(08:07):
then demo behind it, so itlooked exactly like their
current instagram account.
And then I just sent it over tohim and say, hey, hey, man,
this is what I built.
And, uh, he calls me.
He's like dude, how do we startworking with you?
I live in indiana I still doand, uh, he lives in california.
(08:28):
And it was like on tuesday atlike six o'clock at night I
don't know why, but it came outof my mouth.
I was like I'll tell you what.
I'll be out there tomorrow.
Uh, so I I really didn't havemuch money at the time, but I
had enough money to book aone-way ticket and that's what I
did.
I flew out to California thenext morning, I think like 5am,
(08:52):
landed in California, NewportBeach, and then, uh, figured out
they needed a lot more helpthan just the chatbot stuff.
So I introduced them to HighLevel.
I signed up High Level wasactually my first client for
High Level and then I stayed attheir office and when people
came in like their clients, Iwould talk to them and Nick and
(09:13):
the guys there at the officewere like this guy just flew in
like on a whim and I ended upgetting some clients out of that
and then that's what catapultedmy agency full time.
Wow, what a story.
Dr. William Attaway (09:32):
It's probably the craziest thing I've
ever done in my life and itworked, and so now you're
helping other agencies with thestuff that you have created
first for yours.
But now the bot mockups, thehelp docs, I mean, these are all
things that you created for youto use.
First right List builder adlike this was the stuff you used
(09:54):
first.
Jeff Vanasdal (09:55):
Yeah, and the idea to come full circle with
that bot mockups thing.
One thing I realized is if Idid not spend like two or three
hours building that customized,essentially mockup or demo for
Kevin for that event, right,they wouldn't have said, oh man,
this is awesome.
I was like, hmm, I can't spendthree, four hours or two, two to
(10:17):
like five hours on just aone-off demo.
Has to be a better way.
And then when ai came out I waslike all right, I'm going all
in on this.
And that's what stirred up theidea of BotMockups is to be able
to create hyper-personalizeddemos in a matter of minutes
versus a matter of a few hours,and then be able to send it off
(10:41):
to the prospect so they canactually see what it looks like
and it functions in real time.
Dr. William Attaway (10:50):
That's so good.
What are some of the thingsthat you have seen as agency
owners and business owners haveused these products?
What are some of the wins thatyou've seen them experience?
Jeff Vanasdal (11:01):
Oh man.
So I'll just bring up one forListBuilder.
This guy got a hold of methrough the mini chat experts
group and he has a a risk calledthe recycle firefighter.
They make wallets and otherproducts about um around recycle
fire hose.
(11:22):
Oh we ran a giveaway for him andhe films email and SMS list up
to like 40,000 emails in onemonth and just like 5X's
business.
Whoa, wow there.
And then, as far as bot mockupsgo, a lot of agencies are using
(11:43):
their VAs to build just mockupsall day to push them out to the
prospects so they can actuallysell.
The other reason why I made Bobmock-ups too, so it helps sell
AI and essentially I put anarticle out or a blog post out
about this.
Just two days ago I was reallyprocrastinating selling AI
(12:07):
because I felt like I didn'thave the right tools.
Only if I had this tool thatwould help show clients and help
them understand what I'mactually talking about and
selling, then it'd be easier tosell my AI chatbot services.
And that's after 10 months ofdevelopment.
I know how to bot mockups and Ihave the tools to do that
(12:31):
Brilliant.
Dr. William Attaway (12:33):
Jeff, if you were able to go back and
talk to yourself five years ago,before you started any of this,
and you were able to tellyourself one thing based on what
you know now, what would youlove to go back and tell
yourself?
Jeff Vanasdal (12:45):
I never thought about that.
I would just say keep stickingwith it.
I mean, that's always been mymotto is like you never know if
you don't try.
Yeah, so that's kind of what myphilosophy has always been is
man, just give it a try?
And and right now I'm tryingnot to focus on too many things
(13:09):
at once that's my biggest lessonwith my mockups is like hyper
focus on one thing, rather thanI got this and this and this and
I've always been like, oh, I'mgoing to create a brand for this
.
Oftentimes I have a brand, alogo, a website all built before
I even have like a strategy ora product to even sell.
(13:30):
I just think it's cool.
But cool doesn't always pay thebills when you don't know where
you're going.
Dr. William Attaway (13:45):
That's true .
Good lesson there for so manypeople listening, I think,
because I think we've all falleninto that trap at time or time.
So you know people look at youfrom the outside, jeff, and you
know I've known you for theoutside, jeff, and you know I've
known you for a couple yearsnow and watching your journey.
I think if somebody's justlooking at your highlight reel
they might be thinking, oh man,this guy, he's never really
struggled, he's just had thismeteoric rise like up into the
(14:05):
right.
He's never had to deal with thechallenges that I deal with.
Like, if somebody's listeningand that's what they're thinking
, what would you say?
Jeff Vanasdal (14:12):
to them I would say you're crazy, because it's
been a hell of a ride from manto like.
Well, going back to, okay, mylast real job, I'll tell you
this was at Target target, likeringing people up, and I have
dreams about bringing people up.
That was my last job.
(14:33):
I was like 16.
So where I'm going with this too, I I've had some cool jobs, but
also they haven't really paidthe bills all that much, um, but
, and also too, I've been manlike hustling, like crazy, and I
remember going to the grocerystore and just running around as
fast as I can and thinkingabout business.
(14:54):
I had to get back home to keepbuilding.
I was selling more than I couldkeep up with.
That led to marriage issues,two failed marriages and just
all kinds of stuff like marriageissues to failed marriages like
uh, and just all kinds of stuff.
Man Just but uh, it isdefinitely been a journey.
(15:20):
And speaking of the, the, thegrocery store, I remember having
to put my ramen noodles, uh, atthe checkout once because I had
to have the money.
So, yeah, it's definitely not,it's definitely not been easy,
but you learn every single timelike man, the guy I am now
(15:42):
compared to where I was at yearsago and try to get 1% better
every day.
Sure, everyone's heard that one.
Dr. William Attaway (15:53):
Absolutely Well.
I think there's no wastedexperience either, and I think
that everything you say, likeyou say it, has made you who you
are today, and I think thatcontinual learning posture that
you have put yourself in whereyou realize I can learn from any
experience I'm going throughand I can learn from other
people and I don't have to keepmaking the same mistakes over
(16:15):
and over and over again havehelped you to become a better
version of yourself than youwere five or ten years ago
Absolutely yeah.
So, talking about that learningposture, you know your business
and your team and your clientsneed you to lead at a higher
level today than they did fiveyears ago, and that same thing
(16:35):
is going to be true five and tenyears from now.
So how do you stay on top ofyour game?
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
team and your business and yourclients are going to need you to
have in the years to come andyour business and your clients
are going to need you to have inthe years to come.
Jeff Vanasdal (16:52):
I try to set aside at least an hour every day
to study A few mastermindsright now, and I think that's
where a lot of people forget,like they go to school or like
growing up and then college, andthat seems like that's when a
lot of people just drop off andthey stop learning, which is
seems yeah, uh, I don't know whyyou'd ever do that, but that's,
(17:16):
I don't know about you, but Ithink that's kind of like the
commonality right now.
It is so, yeah, studying everyday and then, um, that's always
helping me.
I remember back to like I hadto just hurry back home to do
all the work.
Well, I one of the books I readwas buy back your time by dan
(17:38):
martell yeah, it's a great bookyeah, change everything.
um, I'm in dance master rightnow and just some of the stuff
he says is man, it's reallychanged the way I have hired and
there's grown the, the, mybusiness in a whole, because you
(17:59):
can only do so much foryourself.
That's so true.
Dr. William Attaway (18:04):
So so, thinking about your business as
it exists today, what do youwant most in your business?
What is one thing that like?
If you got this one thing,you'd feel like, hey, this is
great, we're on the right track.
Jeff Vanasdal (18:16):
I'm like I'm kind of living it right now.
I have my team that canbasically handle the day-to-day
projects and clientcommunications.
That was a big thing.
That held me back too was justhaving a system to communicate
(18:39):
with clients, give them updates,actually not being the
bottleneck in the system wherewe started using Slack and
putting all our clients in slackand it's all my team and their
team in slack and my teamcommunicate with them, rather
than being so siloed in inemails and then it's good, I'm
(19:00):
not getting stuck in the emailsand being the middleman trying
to do all that.
Now they communicate directlywith the client, uh, and which
allows me to do cool things like, uh, my girlfriend, I went up
to a concert the other day, likein the middle of the day,
stayed up there after theconcert came back home and and
(19:23):
work was still getting donewithout me having to manage
everything.
So I'm super thankful for it.
It's pretty awesome.
Dr. William Attaway (19:33):
Well and that is something that we talk
about a lot is the importance ofremoving yourself from what I
call the center of the spotterweb, where everything connects
to you.
If everything is connecting toyou, then you are the lid, you
are the limit to what that teamor that organization can grow to
.
But removing yourself from thatso that you can go take an
(19:55):
afternoon you can't go, be gonemidday and work is still getting
done that's the goal.
So many entrepreneurs start abusiness because they want time
freedom or financial freedom orlocation freedom or all three,
but then what they do is theyend up creating a job that traps
them at the center of thespider web.
It doesn't have to be that way,and I love that.
(20:15):
You are intentionally designingyour business around your life.
I think that's very healthy.
Jeff Vanasdal (20:22):
Yeah, I love it, man.
I'm so blessed to be able to beat that point right now.
That stuff just gets done.
I have an amazing team behindme and it's allowed me to
position myself into the morevisionary role.
And I do some other delegationstuff still, but it's just
(20:43):
allowed my mind to be more freeand to expand the business and
actually focus on sales as well.
Well, and it's just allowed mymind to be more free and to
expand the business and actuallyfocus on sales as well.
Dr. William Attaway (20:50):
Well, and it's margin, and creativity
lives in margin.
So when people say they're notcreative, it's because they
don't have the margin to becreative.
That's where creativity grows.
Intro / Outro (21:00):
Yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (21:00):
You have to have that margin.
I love that you're doing that.
Jeff Vanasdal (21:03):
I think where my head went on there is like you
ever get an email and you'relike man, I don't really want to
reply to that right now.
It's like because you don'thave the headspace to even read
through the email and I'll savethat for later.
Well, if you have a team behindyou to clear that head of yours
and just coming down to onesimple email, it feels great.
(21:29):
It's a wonderful place.
Dr. William Attaway (21:35):
As a continual learner who is
spending intentional time everyday learning and growing and
studying, is there a book that'smade a really big difference in
your journey that you'drecommend to the leaders who are
listening?
Jeff Vanasdal (21:46):
really big difference in your journey that
you'd recommend to the leaderswho are listening.
I would say check out the BuyBack your Time, because it
really focuses on growing yourteam and then allowing you to do
other stuff like sales andsetting yourself into the role
you want.
And then right now, I'm readingDan Martell's new book called
Software as a Science, and I'vebeen really the books I read or
(22:14):
digest within videos and stuff.
I just want to be focused onone subject Rather than reading
through a whole book or studyingall these subjects all at once.
What's the problem right nowthat you're trying to solve?
And then what are the sources,resources you can use to solve
that problem?
And software as a science iswhat I'm focused on right now,
(22:36):
because I'm focused on growingbot mock-ups as a software.
I've already seen um, I thinkwe're up 56% this week.
That's awesome and, as you know, reading's one thing, but
implementing it too, like slowdown, and even the videos I
(22:57):
watch, I rewatch it, like whatdo you say?
Rewatch it again, take notes.
And then the habit I've beendoing here lately is, uh, when
I'm learning something, like tryto teach someone else, and in
different media formats, likeI've been writing blog posts
about what I read, and then alsoconnected to something personal
(23:20):
with emotion, uh, so the userscan connect to it a little bit
more and and it brings in a bitof your personality and your
past experience too.
I love that.
Dr. William Attaway (23:35):
Jeff, you know, in any business there are
the big wins that we celebrateand there are the challenges,
the obstacles that are in theway.
If I had the ability to snap myfingers and solve one problem
in your business right now, whatwould you want that one problem
to be?
Jeff Vanasdal (23:54):
Uh, I would say, even though I have more time,
but uh, I guess adding anotherdeveloper, I guess adding to my
team a bit more Um, and then ofteam a bit more, and then of
course getting more clients.
Dr. William Attaway (24:12):
That's always nice to have too.
Absolutely, I love that.
You know.
I asked that question because Ithink it's it's again easy for
people on the outside to lookand say, oh man, jeff didn't
really have any problems, hedidn't really have anything he'd
want to solve, and I think it'shelpful for people to hear no,
actually there's more to come.
Like, I see more ahead thanwhat is behind, and I think
(24:34):
that's where you are.
I think your days ahead aregoing to be far more fruitful
than what has been.
Would you agree?
Jeff Vanasdal (24:42):
Oh, yeah, yeah, and I feel like I'm um just
learning every day to grow, likejust by Marcus, for example.
Right now I'm really focused onon metrics.
So like what, how many?
How many free trials have wegot?
How many?
What's the average churn andhave the tracking those metrics,
uh, and just maturing as far asif it's sooner too, uh, and
(25:06):
also just not being all over theplace trying to do everything
and starting something and thenstopping something.
Just see it the way through,put people in positions that can
actually run it and then youcan go on to the next thing,
versus doing everything.
Dr. William Attaway (25:26):
You know, jeff, this has been so
incredible, this conversation,because I think you've been so
honest and transparent aboutwhere you've been, about where
you are and about what's ahead,and I know our listeners are
going to want to continue tolearn from you and learn more
about you and what you're doing,and about bot mockups and all
the other things we've talkedabout.
(25:47):
What's the best way for them todo that?
Jeff Vanasdal (25:49):
Yeah, follow me on Facebook.
I'm most active on Facebook andit's just my name, jeff, and
all.
Still, my dad has the same nameas me, so I think on Facebook
it's Jeff and also you'll see mypicture, and then on Instagram
as well.
So I'm trying to put up morecontent, actually teaching stuff
that I'm learning from someguys like Dan Rattel and you and
(26:12):
some of my other friends likeAlex and Shunsky, and just
putting out content to helpothers, because that's how I got
started too.
People ask me how did you go tocollege for this?
I just watch YouTube videos.
It's not.
It doesn't do anything.
Dr. William Attaway (26:32):
Well, it's all about the learning posture.
You know it really is.
If you're committed to be alearner, then you can learn
anywhere from anybody.
Oh yeah, you don't have to sitin a classroom, you can watch a
YouTube video, yep.
Jeff Vanasdal (26:46):
Just have to sit in the classroom.
You could watch a YouTube video.
Yep, just keep.
I think the key is justimplementation.
Don't get stuck in the loopholeof just learning, learning,
learning Exactly.
Dr. William Attaway (27:01):
Information alone does not lead truly to
transformation.
You have to have transformation.
Nope, you have to haveexecution.
Absolutely, jeff, we'll haveall those links in the show
notes and again, thank you forbeing on the show.
Jeff Vanasdal (27:15):
Hey, thanks.
Man Appreciate it Always goodchatting with you.
It is an honor today to have Jeff Vanosel
on the podcast.
Jeff is a serial entrepreneur,a tech founder and the creative
mind behind multiple AI-poweredplatforms, including BotMockups,
listbuilderai and HelpDocsai.
With a strong background inmarketing and a passion for
(00:20):
building tools that solvereal-world problems, jeff helps
e-commerce brands and agenciesuse AI to drive growth, boost
engagement and scale smarter.
His latest venture, bot Mockups, allows marketing agencies to
create interactive chatbot demosin minutes, helping them close
(00:42):
more deals without techheadaches.
Helpdocsai offers AI-drivencustomer support that turns FAQ
content into instantconversational help, and
ListBuilderai helps onlinebrands to grow email and SMS
(01:03):
lists with little to no ad spend.
Jeff brings a uniqueperspective to leadership,
blending innovation, resilienceand a deep commitment to helping
others win.
Jeff, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Jeff Vanasdal (01:15):
Hey, thanks, man, I appreciate it.
That intro was pretty coolhearing all that because
day-to-day I'm just in the grindand pretty awesome for those
tools I just created essentiallyfor myself.
Now it's offering those toother marketing agencies.
Intro / Outro (01:34):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the
podcast designed to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:52):
Well, let's dive into that.
I would love for you to share alittle bit of your story with
our listeners, particularlyaround your journey and your
development as a leader.
How'd you get started?
Jeff Vanasdal (02:04):
Well, uh, that's a good question, because I
remember when I didn't know whata sales funnel was, but I was
already building them and, um, Iguess we can go back.
This is probably, I guess, fiveyears ago.
I started uh shooting uhpictures at snowball races and I
(02:28):
would have to set up the, thebooth for makita tools and rocks
or energy.
And they set up a booth, theylike display the, the latest
tools, and they always give awaya big prize every year for um
like uh sign up to win like asnowmobile or a side-by-side or
ATV, and then some little prizeslike tools, sets, all that.
(02:52):
And one thing I realized a lotof people I mean they were
giving away swag left and rightfor no rhyme or reason, just oh,
hey, here's a sticker, here's akoozie, and I thought it would
be pretty cool to gamify thesystem and actually try to get
more people down to the booth,because oftentimes the booth was
, you know, outside of thestands a little bit uh.
So what I did was I built thisapp where it was right, when QR
(03:15):
codes scanners became native onyour, your iPhone or Android too
, and I built this app where itwould go to a landing page.
Someone fell out.
Form Sounds pretty standardright now, but that was to win
the big prize.
Well, I gamified it, where thenext step was to spin a wheel
(03:35):
and I can control theprobability of that wheel and
the slices.
So say, I only brought like 10hoodies to the event and 200
koozies, 300 stickers.
I could control the probabilityof what it lands on and also
say, uh, it landed on the hoodie10 times.
I only have 10 hoodies.
(03:56):
Well, it would boot that sliceout of the system, which would
be nice.
Uh, from me like, hey, guys, Iwant a hoodie.
And like, hey, oh, sorry, man,we're out, here's a sticker.
It's like I hate that.
Uh so, and then I had therockstar energy models that were
on other races.
I gave them all business cardswith the qr code on them and
(04:19):
sent them up in the stands andhanded them out, and then people
were entered to win.
So it increased the amount ofemails and SMS we got and put
traffic into the booth.
So that was my first, I guess,problem and it was essentially a
sales funnel and I had no cluewhat that even was.
Dr. William Attaway (04:38):
And now you're diving all the way in on
AI.
Jeff Vanasdal (04:43):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Every day is full of AI.
So what drove?
Dr. William Attaway (04:48):
you that direction.
Jeff Vanasdal (04:50):
Well, I've been building chatbots for almost a
decade now.
This was before AI, so I wasusing an app called Minichat and
I really enjoyed that.
And one thing I was using Minmini chat for is to grow the
email and sms list.
I just I love that.
That strategy, because you havea pure metric to go off of is
(05:14):
like how many emails can I get?
Uh, and that's how I wasgrowing the email smbestos for
uh different companies acrossthe board.
Um, one in particular was for amed spa.
It was just a $500 gift cardgiveaway, zero ad spend, like
you mentioned earlier.
Uh, and we ended up getting anadditional 20, $20,000 worth of
(05:38):
business for in one week.
Wow, zero ad spend.
So that was one of the things.
And then, when ai rolled out, Iwas like, wow, there's so much
uh you could do here, and thennow it's full ai chatbots across
the board.
And, like this morning, I wasjust building a new app with no
code software to build.
This isn't using, like you know, chat, gpt or uh, claude, but
(06:03):
you use that to essentiallybuild an app or a website rather
than hard coding everything.
Dr. William Attaway (06:10):
That's remarkable.
Yeah, so tell me about botmock-ups.
This is this is your newestpiece.
Jeff Vanasdal (06:17):
Yeah, but uh.
That's been in my head forabout oh ever since I started
building the, the chat, and howI really broke into that world
or my marketing agency full-time.
This was 2020, right when COVIDhit, and previously I was
(06:37):
somehow laying at the job with amajor manufacturer called
Can-Am they're like Yamaha orHonda and I was in charge of the
social media which they had atthe time around 4 million
followers between Facebook,Instagram and Twitter.
It was like a dream job becauseI had to drive ATVs and
sideways sides all over theworld and all the commercials
(07:01):
and then shoot photography andthen run the social media which
I've been writing ATV since Iwas eight.
So it was a dream job.
Yeah, right, Whatever happened.
And then COVID hit and thenthey thought the industry was
going to go under, so they let abunch of people go and I'll
(07:23):
bring it back and around here ina second.
But I had to figure somethingout.
While I was sitting on the backporch at the time and I was
just scrolling through Instagram, I saw a story with Kevin
Harrington from one of the OGs.
He was having an event with aguy I knew at the time a great
guy Nick Long is his name.
I was like, hmm, I could dosomething with this.
(07:45):
So what I did was I clicked onthe ad.
The ad went to a landing pagethat was built in ClickFunnels
and it just had a form to fillout to come to the event.
Well, I took all the samequestions that were on the form
and turned it into a chatbot.
But I took it one step further.
I made a brand new instagramaccount with the event name and
(08:07):
then demo behind it, so itlooked exactly like their
current instagram account.
And then I just sent it over tohim and say, hey, hey, man,
this is what I built.
And, uh, he calls me.
He's like dude, how do we startworking with you?
I live in indiana I still doand, uh, he lives in california.
(08:28):
And it was like on tuesday atlike six o'clock at night I
don't know why, but it came outof my mouth.
I was like I'll tell you what.
I'll be out there tomorrow.
Uh, so I I really didn't havemuch money at the time, but I
had enough money to book aone-way ticket and that's what I
did.
I flew out to California thenext morning, I think like 5am,
(08:52):
landed in California, NewportBeach, and then, uh, figured out
they needed a lot more helpthan just the chatbot stuff.
So I introduced them to HighLevel.
I signed up High Level wasactually my first client for
High Level and then I stayed attheir office and when people
came in like their clients, Iwould talk to them and Nick and
(09:13):
the guys there at the officewere like this guy just flew in
like on a whim and I ended upgetting some clients out of that
and then that's what catapultedmy agency full time.
Wow, what a story.
Dr. William Attaway (09:32):
It's probably the craziest thing I've
ever done in my life and itworked, and so now you're
helping other agencies with thestuff that you have created
first for yours.
But now the bot mockups, thehelp docs, I mean, these are all
things that you created for youto use.
First right List builder adlike this was the stuff you used
(09:54):
first.
Jeff Vanasdal (09:55):
Yeah, and the idea to come full circle with
that bot mockups thing.
One thing I realized is if Idid not spend like two or three
hours building that customized,essentially mockup or demo for
Kevin for that event, right,they wouldn't have said, oh man,
this is awesome.
I was like, hmm, I can't spendthree, four hours or two, two to
(10:17):
like five hours on just aone-off demo.
Has to be a better way.
And then when ai came out I waslike all right, I'm going all
in on this.
And that's what stirred up theidea of BotMockups is to be able
to create hyper-personalizeddemos in a matter of minutes
versus a matter of a few hours,and then be able to send it off
(10:41):
to the prospect so they canactually see what it looks like
and it functions in real time.
Dr. William Attaway (10:50):
That's so good.
What are some of the thingsthat you have seen as agency
owners and business owners haveused these products?
What are some of the wins thatyou've seen them experience?
Jeff Vanasdal (11:01):
Oh man.
So I'll just bring up one forListBuilder.
This guy got a hold of methrough the mini chat experts
group and he has a a risk calledthe recycle firefighter.
They make wallets and otherproducts about um around recycle
fire hose.
(11:22):
Oh we ran a giveaway for him andhe films email and SMS list up
to like 40,000 emails in onemonth and just like 5X's
business.
Whoa, wow there.
And then, as far as bot mockupsgo, a lot of agencies are using
(11:43):
their VAs to build just mockupsall day to push them out to the
prospects so they can actuallysell.
The other reason why I made Bobmock-ups too, so it helps sell
AI and essentially I put anarticle out or a blog post out
about this.
Just two days ago I was reallyprocrastinating selling AI
(12:07):
because I felt like I didn'thave the right tools.
Only if I had this tool thatwould help show clients and help
them understand what I'mactually talking about and
selling, then it'd be easier tosell my AI chatbot services.
And that's after 10 months ofdevelopment.
I know how to bot mockups and Ihave the tools to do that
(12:31):
Brilliant.
Dr. William Attaway (12:33):
Jeff, if you were able to go back and
talk to yourself five years ago,before you started any of this,
and you were able to tellyourself one thing based on what
you know now, what would youlove to go back and tell
yourself?
Jeff Vanasdal (12:45):
I never thought about that.
I would just say keep stickingwith it.
I mean, that's always been mymotto is like you never know if
you don't try.
Yeah, so that's kind of what myphilosophy has always been is
man, just give it a try?
And and right now I'm tryingnot to focus on too many things
(13:09):
at once that's my biggest lessonwith my mockups is like hyper
focus on one thing, rather thanI got this and this and this and
I've always been like, oh, I'mgoing to create a brand for this
.
Oftentimes I have a brand, alogo, a website all built before
I even have like a strategy ora product to even sell.
(13:30):
I just think it's cool.
But cool doesn't always pay thebills when you don't know where
you're going.
Dr. William Attaway (13:45):
That's true .
Good lesson there for so manypeople listening, I think,
because I think we've all falleninto that trap at time or time.
So you know people look at youfrom the outside, jeff, and you
know I've known you for theoutside, jeff, and you know I've
known you for a couple yearsnow and watching your journey.
I think if somebody's justlooking at your highlight reel
they might be thinking, oh man,this guy, he's never really
struggled, he's just had thismeteoric rise like up into the
(14:05):
right.
He's never had to deal with thechallenges that I deal with.
Like, if somebody's listeningand that's what they're thinking
, what would you say?
Jeff Vanasdal (14:12):
to them I would say you're crazy, because it's
been a hell of a ride from manto like.
Well, going back to, okay, mylast real job, I'll tell you
this was at Target target, likeringing people up, and I have
dreams about bringing people up.
That was my last job.
(14:33):
I was like 16.
So where I'm going with this too, I I've had some cool jobs, but
also they haven't really paidthe bills all that much, um, but
, and also too, I've been manlike hustling, like crazy, and I
remember going to the grocerystore and just running around as
fast as I can and thinkingabout business.
(14:54):
I had to get back home to keepbuilding.
I was selling more than I couldkeep up with.
That led to marriage issues,two failed marriages and just
all kinds of stuff like marriageissues to failed marriages like
uh, and just all kinds of stuff.
Man Just but uh, it isdefinitely been a journey.
(15:20):
And speaking of the, the, thegrocery store, I remember having
to put my ramen noodles, uh, atthe checkout once because I had
to have the money.
So, yeah, it's definitely not,it's definitely not been easy,
but you learn every single timelike man, the guy I am now
(15:42):
compared to where I was at yearsago and try to get 1% better
every day.
Sure, everyone's heard that one.
Dr. William Attaway (15:53):
Absolutely Well.
I think there's no wastedexperience either, and I think
that everything you say, likeyou say it, has made you who you
are today, and I think thatcontinual learning posture that
you have put yourself in whereyou realize I can learn from any
experience I'm going throughand I can learn from other
people and I don't have to keepmaking the same mistakes over
(16:15):
and over and over again havehelped you to become a better
version of yourself than youwere five or ten years ago
Absolutely yeah.
So, talking about that learningposture, you know your business
and your team and your clientsneed you to lead at a higher
level today than they did fiveyears ago, and that same thing
(16:35):
is going to be true five and tenyears from now.
So how do you stay on top ofyour game?
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
team and your business and yourclients are going to need you to
have in the years to come andyour business and your clients
are going to need you to have inthe years to come.
Jeff Vanasdal (16:52):
I try to set aside at least an hour every day
to study A few mastermindsright now, and I think that's
where a lot of people forget,like they go to school or like
growing up and then college, andthat seems like that's when a
lot of people just drop off andthey stop learning, which is
seems yeah, uh, I don't know whyyou'd ever do that, but that's,
(17:16):
I don't know about you, but Ithink that's kind of like the
commonality right now.
It is so, yeah, studying everyday and then, um, that's always
helping me.
I remember back to like I hadto just hurry back home to do
all the work.
Well, I one of the books I readwas buy back your time by dan
(17:38):
martell yeah, it's a great bookyeah, change everything.
um, I'm in dance master rightnow and just some of the stuff
he says is man, it's reallychanged the way I have hired and
there's grown the, the, mybusiness in a whole, because you
(17:59):
can only do so much foryourself.
That's so true.
Dr. William Attaway (18:04):
So so, thinking about your business as
it exists today, what do youwant most in your business?
What is one thing that like?
If you got this one thing,you'd feel like, hey, this is
great, we're on the right track.
Jeff Vanasdal (18:16):
I'm like I'm kind of living it right now.
I have my team that canbasically handle the day-to-day
projects and clientcommunications.
That was a big thing.
That held me back too was justhaving a system to communicate
(18:39):
with clients, give them updates,actually not being the
bottleneck in the system wherewe started using Slack and
putting all our clients in slackand it's all my team and their
team in slack and my teamcommunicate with them, rather
than being so siloed in inemails and then it's good, I'm
(19:00):
not getting stuck in the emailsand being the middleman trying
to do all that.
Now they communicate directlywith the client, uh, and which
allows me to do cool things like, uh, my girlfriend, I went up
to a concert the other day, likein the middle of the day,
stayed up there after theconcert came back home and and
(19:23):
work was still getting donewithout me having to manage
everything.
So I'm super thankful for it.
It's pretty awesome.
Dr. William Attaway (19:33):
Well and that is something that we talk
about a lot is the importance ofremoving yourself from what I
call the center of the spotterweb, where everything connects
to you.
If everything is connecting toyou, then you are the lid, you
are the limit to what that teamor that organization can grow to
.
But removing yourself from thatso that you can go take an
(19:55):
afternoon you can't go, be gonemidday and work is still getting
done that's the goal.
So many entrepreneurs start abusiness because they want time
freedom or financial freedom orlocation freedom or all three,
but then what they do is theyend up creating a job that traps
them at the center of thespider web.
It doesn't have to be that way,and I love that.
(20:15):
You are intentionally designingyour business around your life.
I think that's very healthy.
Jeff Vanasdal (20:22):
Yeah, I love it, man.
I'm so blessed to be able to beat that point right now.
That stuff just gets done.
I have an amazing team behindme and it's allowed me to
position myself into the morevisionary role.
And I do some other delegationstuff still, but it's just
(20:43):
allowed my mind to be more freeand to expand the business and
actually focus on sales as well.
Well, and it's just allowed mymind to be more free and to
expand the business and actuallyfocus on sales as well.
Dr. William Attaway (20:50):
Well, and it's margin, and creativity
lives in margin.
So when people say they're notcreative, it's because they
don't have the margin to becreative.
That's where creativity grows.
Intro / Outro (21:00):
Yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (21:00):
You have to have that margin.
I love that you're doing that.
Jeff Vanasdal (21:03):
I think where my head went on there is like you
ever get an email and you'relike man, I don't really want to
reply to that right now.
It's like because you don'thave the headspace to even read
through the email and I'll savethat for later.
Well, if you have a team behindyou to clear that head of yours
and just coming down to onesimple email, it feels great.
(21:29):
It's a wonderful place.
Dr. William Attaway (21:35):
As a continual learner who is
spending intentional time everyday learning and growing and
studying, is there a book that'smade a really big difference in
your journey that you'drecommend to the leaders who are
listening?
Jeff Vanasdal (21:46):
really big difference in your journey that
you'd recommend to the leaderswho are listening.
I would say check out the BuyBack your Time, because it
really focuses on growing yourteam and then allowing you to do
other stuff like sales andsetting yourself into the role
you want.
And then right now, I'm readingDan Martell's new book called
Software as a Science, and I'vebeen really the books I read or
(22:14):
digest within videos and stuff.
I just want to be focused onone subject Rather than reading
through a whole book or studyingall these subjects all at once.
What's the problem right nowthat you're trying to solve?
And then what are the sources,resources you can use to solve
that problem?
And software as a science iswhat I'm focused on right now,
(22:36):
because I'm focused on growingbot mock-ups as a software.
I've already seen um, I thinkwe're up 56% this week.
That's awesome and, as you know, reading's one thing, but
implementing it too, like slowdown, and even the videos I
(22:57):
watch, I rewatch it, like whatdo you say?
Rewatch it again, take notes.
And then the habit I've beendoing here lately is, uh, when
I'm learning something, like tryto teach someone else, and in
different media formats, likeI've been writing blog posts
about what I read, and then alsoconnected to something personal
(23:20):
with emotion, uh, so the userscan connect to it a little bit
more and and it brings in a bitof your personality and your
past experience too.
I love that.
Dr. William Attaway (23:35):
Jeff, you know, in any business there are
the big wins that we celebrateand there are the challenges,
the obstacles that are in theway.
If I had the ability to snap myfingers and solve one problem
in your business right now, whatwould you want that one problem
to be?
Jeff Vanasdal (23:54):
Uh, I would say, even though I have more time,
but uh, I guess adding anotherdeveloper, I guess adding to my
team a bit more Um, and then ofteam a bit more, and then of
course getting more clients.
Dr. William Attaway (24:12):
That's always nice to have too.
Absolutely, I love that.
You know.
I asked that question because Ithink it's it's again easy for
people on the outside to lookand say, oh man, jeff didn't
really have any problems, hedidn't really have anything he'd
want to solve, and I think it'shelpful for people to hear no,
actually there's more to come.
Like, I see more ahead thanwhat is behind, and I think
(24:34):
that's where you are.
I think your days ahead aregoing to be far more fruitful
than what has been.
Would you agree?
Jeff Vanasdal (24:42):
Oh, yeah, yeah, and I feel like I'm um just
learning every day to grow, likejust by Marcus, for example.
Right now I'm really focused onon metrics.
So like what, how many?
How many free trials have wegot?
How many?
What's the average churn andhave the tracking those metrics,
uh, and just maturing as far asif it's sooner too, uh, and
(25:06):
also just not being all over theplace trying to do everything
and starting something and thenstopping something.
Just see it the way through,put people in positions that can
actually run it and then youcan go on to the next thing,
versus doing everything.
Dr. William Attaway (25:26):
You know, jeff, this has been so
incredible, this conversation,because I think you've been so
honest and transparent aboutwhere you've been, about where
you are and about what's ahead,and I know our listeners are
going to want to continue tolearn from you and learn more
about you and what you're doing,and about bot mockups and all
the other things we've talkedabout.
(25:47):
What's the best way for them todo that?
Jeff Vanasdal (25:49):
Yeah, follow me on Facebook.
I'm most active on Facebook andit's just my name, jeff, and
all.
Still, my dad has the same nameas me, so I think on Facebook
it's Jeff and also you'll see mypicture, and then on Instagram
as well.
So I'm trying to put up morecontent, actually teaching stuff
that I'm learning from someguys like Dan Rattel and you and
(26:12):
some of my other friends likeAlex and Shunsky, and just
putting out content to helpothers, because that's how I got
started too.
People ask me how did you go tocollege for this?
I just watch YouTube videos.
It's not.
It doesn't do anything.
Dr. William Attaway (26:32):
Well, it's all about the learning posture.
You know it really is.
If you're committed to be alearner, then you can learn
anywhere from anybody.
Oh yeah, you don't have to sitin a classroom, you can watch a
YouTube video, yep.
Jeff Vanasdal (26:46):
Just have to sit in the classroom.
You could watch a YouTube video.
Yep, just keep.
I think the key is justimplementation.
Don't get stuck in the loopholeof just learning, learning,
learning Exactly.
Dr. William Attaway (27:01):
Information alone does not lead truly to
transformation.
You have to have transformation.
Nope, you have to haveexecution.
Absolutely, jeff, we'll haveall those links in the show
notes and again, thank you forbeing on the show.
Jeff Vanasdal (27:15):
Hey, thanks.
Man Appreciate it Always goodchatting with you.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.