July 17, 2025 • 29 mins
AI is reshaping search before our eyes — and for digital agency owners, the shift is already impacting visibility, attribution, and results. If your SEO playbook hasn’t changed in the last 12 months, it’s likely underperforming.
I sat down with Adam Chronister, founder of Enleaf and a trailblazing digital marketer who’s helped brands scale from startup to 8-figures and beyond. His agency is known for its data-driven SEO strategy — and more importantly, for helping clients scale their agency with clarity, automation, and long-term visibility.
We unpack how AI is swallowing search real estate, why traditional attribution is breaking, and what that means for scaling a high-performance agency in 2025 and beyond. Adam also shares a powerful reframing of leadership, privacy, and lifestyle freedom that every agency owner needs to hear.
If you’ve ever wondered how to keep scaling your agency without burning out, bottlenecking your team, or chasing outdated strategies, this episode delivers exactly that — with wisdom, not noise.
⏱ Chapter Breakdown (Timestamps based on transcript)
00:02 — Meet Adam Chronister of Enleaf
01:19 — How software development led Adam into digital marketing
03:40 — What industries Enleaf serves (and how)
05:17 — Why SEO alone no longer works
07:33 — How AI is changing search visibility and attribution
08:30 — Think of SEO as digital real estate
09:28 — The rise of AI visibility tools and Google’s upcoming changes
10:42 — Why privacy may be dead (and what that means for brand builders)
15:23 — The real role Enleaf plays in their clients’ growth and exits
18:18 — What people don’t see behind agency success
20:15 — How personal development fueled Adam’s entire journey
21:30 — Scaling through discomfort, delegation, and trust
25:51 — Designing a business that supports the life you actually want
28:19 — Defining your business goals: growth vs. lifestyle
📚 Books Mentioned
- The 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss
Want to connect with Adam? Just Google “Adam Chronister” or visit Enleaf.com — he’s easy to find and active on platforms like Facebook, X, and LinkedIn. You’ll also find free tools, SEO insights, and client results on his site.
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
- Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:
Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
- Special Offer:
Get your FREE copy of Catalytic Leadership: 12 Keys to Becoming an Intentional Leader Who Makes a Difference.
Connect with Dr. William Attaway:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. William Attaway (00:00):
I am so excited today to have Adam
Chronister on the podcast.
Adam is a trailblazing digitalmarketing expert and the founder
of Enleaf, a highly successfulUS-based agency known for its
data-driven SEO strategies.
With over a decade ofexperience, adam has propelled
major American brands tosignificant growth, boosting
(00:24):
revenues from modest beginningsto millions of dollars monthly.
His innovative approach tosearch engine optimization and
marketing automation have earnedhim recognition in prestigious
outlets like MarketWatch, wiredand the Wall Street Journal.
A sought-after speaker, adamfrequently shares his insights
(00:44):
on topics ranging from AI inmarketing to online privacy and
cryptocurrency, blendingentrepreneurial vision with a
passion for empoweringbusinesses to thrive in the
digital age.
Adam, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Adam Chronister (01:02):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
I'm looking forward to ourconversation.
Dr. William Attaway (01:05):
I am as well.
Intro (01:09):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed
to help leaders intentionallygrow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway coach, DrWilliam Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:31):
I would love to start with you sharing a
little bit of your story withour listeners, Adam,
particularly around your journeyand your development as a
leader.
How did you get started?
Adam Chronister (01:38):
Well, I mean, honestly, a lot of it started
right out of college.
My background is in softwaredevelopment, at least
educationally, that's how I gotmy started.
So I have a background or adegree in computer science, but
I got about three-fourths of theway through my degree I don't
know if anyone has had thisexperience and then kind of
(01:59):
realized, like I don't know ifthis is the trajectory for me At
least, staring at code interminals all day Right.
And nonetheless I was, you know, I was, I was three feet deep
in the midst of it, and so Ifinished out my degree, luckily
landed a job at a softwaredevelopment startup as a project
manager, and honestly, it wasthat opportunity, I think, that
(02:24):
really opened my eyes to theidea that I could work in the
industry without having tonecessarily put all my efforts
towards writing codespecifically.
And I still, to this day, verymuch love all things web design,
(02:44):
development, creativity andthen, of course, marketing.
Right, it was this sameopportunity at kind of a nimble
startup where they had nomarketing presence.
At the time, you know, platformslike Twitter and now X were
very new and I just kind of, youknow, naturally gravitated
towards this idea of, you know,marketing online and the company
at the time I was working for.
(03:05):
They were doing some cool stuffin the gaming space, doing some
conferences.
But you know, I went to theowners, my bosses at the company
, and said, hey, I know you guysaren't doing anything in the
realm of marketing.
I've been dabbling around withthis digital marketing stuff and
I'd love to maybe try out myhand at some campaigns.
And you know, if you've everbeen in a startup and you know
(03:29):
volunteer usually you know ifthey're nimble they just say
yeah, go for it, have fun.
And that was kind of thebeginning of the trajectory for
me, right?
That really kind of compelledmy interest to take things even
further.
Be it, you know, running anagency focusing on digital
marketing, all of the,everything within that arena,
(03:51):
essentially.
Dr. William Attaway (03:53):
So what kind of clients do you work with
in Enleaf?
Adam Chronister (03:57):
We work with a pretty broad set of clients
quite honestly.
Honestly, you name the industry.
We've probably worked with itright, everything from SAS to
SMBs.
We do offer a fair amount inthe vacation rental industry.
So, while we don't specificallyniche on any given industry, we
have kind of carved out, Ithink, a name in that particular
(04:20):
space Just because you know youdo a good project and good work
and the word gets out right.
And especially in industrieslike that, they're pretty tight
knit and so, yeah, we've done alot in that space.
But, honestly, just aboutanything in the realm of search
marketing, we've done it andworked with clients.
(04:41):
We ended up doing a lot too inthe industrial contracting space
.
Again, that's another one ofthose case studies where you
know word gets out that you dida good job for a company, why
Somebody moves to the, you knowmoves along and brings you into
the fold, and so we get a lot ofbusiness from you know, both
existing clients and thenclients that have moved on to
(05:02):
other companies and want us todo the same thing.
We did, you know, maybe intheir prior endeavor.
Dr. William Attaway (05:08):
So you know you've been in the agency and
the marketing space for a minuteand you have.
You have seen a lot of fads andtrends.
Come and go Things, thingsexpand and change.
As you look across the fieldtoday, or look across the game
board, where do you see thepieces moving?
(05:29):
What are the trends that you'reseeing headed our way?
Adam Chronister (05:33):
I mean, I think we've seen a fracture like a
fracturing of marketing channelsfor some time now, right, and I
don't see that, I think, insome respects, changing.
We're in an environment wherethey're, you know, with the
things with with things likepodcasts and different you know,
(05:55):
social media, marketing groups,all of these things a whole
market and industry or followingyou know, onto yourself, right,
and then also with technologieslike AI and all of this stuff
like the, the fracturing of whatworks, I think, is becoming
(06:15):
more diverse, and what I mean bythis is there used to be a time
early in my career, where itwas pretty common for agencies
to be focused on one particulardiscipline, right, and companies
could survive just fine bymaybe only doing Facebook ads or
only doing Google ads or onlydoing SEO right.
(06:36):
For a long time, that was ourbig focus was primarily search
engine optimization, and we hadclients.
That that's all they did and itworked great.
But it's getting morechallenging, and so we're almost
to the point where businesseshave to really think of their
marketing as almost like a wholemarketing suite, right, whether
(06:58):
that's team members, partnersor tool sets that get your
message out to the vast, youknow, audience that are out
there across multiple channels.
Dr. William Attaway (07:10):
That's interesting.
And thinking SEO.
You know that's a world thatthere's a lot of change
presently in Absolutely language.
Thinking about it in terms of asuite.
Think in SEO, like with therise of AI, and we're seeing
people using AI as a search toolnow instead of Googling.
(07:33):
And that's only going to becomemore prevalent.
I think what are you seeing?
The changes that agencies or inthe whole marketing field needs
to be thinking about when itcomes to SEO.
Adam Chronister (07:45):
Yeah, well, it's definitely changing the
arena, the environment, so tospeak.
You know, for those of us inthe West that already have AI
overviews, for instance, inGoogle, you'll see that the
search results are changingquite a bit.
Right Now, one of the veryfirst things you see at the top
(08:09):
of the fold is those AIoverviews.
Right Now, one of the veryfirst things you see at top of
the fold is those AI overviews,right, and so everything else
gets pushed down, even GoogleAds.
Google Ads used to be the verytop aspect of search, and now
most search queries that'sposition two, right.
Position three, if you're doinga local search, is going to be
Google Maps, and now positionfour, a lot of times is, like
you know, going to be like siteslike Reddit, and then your
(08:29):
traditional, organic, organicresults are are completely below
the fold, right and so.
So, yeah, the the environmentis changing.
The other way I like to look atall of this really, though, is
I like to think of it as digitalreal estate, and our goal as
(08:49):
business owners, as marketers,is to really absorb as much
digital real estate as we can,whether that's specifically in
the search results or takingthat further and getting
visibility across social mediachannels or some combination of
the two of those.
But yeah, we're seeing AI startto swallow up a percentage of
(09:15):
click-through rates for a lot ofwebsites.
We've seen click-through ratesfor a lot of sites go
essentially in half.
We're seeing challenges withattribution.
Right now.
A lot of that organic trafficthat is being intercepted by AI
is now primarily direct, in somecases referral traffic, and
(09:36):
then the attribution on that isa little bit more challenging
than it used to be.
Now, just like anytechnological change with new
problems becomes, you know, newopportunities, Right, and so
there are.
There are companies that I thinkare going to come, you know,
come out of the woodwork thatare going to help with, you know
, bridging the gap onattribution work in the realm of
(10:01):
almost more like AI visibilityanalytics.
But yeah, it's a changing tidefor sure.
Google, for instance, justannounced that their Google
Search Console tool is soongoing to have some kind of AI
attribution, but it's not thereyet.
So we are really in this kindof midterm period where we still
(10:23):
have to be doing the activitiesthat get your business, you
know, out there and noticed, butwe're in a midterm period where
I think attribution is going tobecome even more challenging,
but I think in time some of thatis going to start to level out
as tools and companies comealong and start to, you know,
(10:43):
resolve this new emergingchallenge that we're facing with
AI and attributing that back tomarketing campaigns.
Dr. William Attaway (10:52):
How do you see this intersecting the world
of online privacy?
Adam Chronister (10:56):
That's challenging.
I mean, the thing is like whenit comes to privacy and even the
way that we do search.
Now, with large language models, it's completely different.
I mean, before you go to Googleand you do, you know, maybe a
three or four keyword search,like you know how to find a
plumber near me, but with largelanguage models, I mean it's
(11:19):
becoming more and more of a normwhere I mean I even find myself
like looking for advice onthings in my personal life,
right, and the nuance that Igive it in order to get the
results I'm looking for back ismuch more, um, much more in
detail than you know, anything Iever put in a search engine.
So it is.
(11:40):
It is somewhat concerningbecause, um, I'm you know that
is going to become more and moreof a topic.
I heard about a story just thisweek about and I forget the
specifics, but the generaltakeaway is that you know, I
think it was a court case orsomething where they were, you
(12:00):
know, basically indicating thatopen AI keeps a record of a lot
of the stuff on the backend.
So, just like you know, legalagencies have gone in and
subpoenaed Google for searchresults.
I imagine it's just a matter oftime, if that hasn't already
happened.
Where you know, law agenciesare going to be able to subpoena
(12:20):
OpenAI for your search queryresults and get much more
nuanced information about you,right?
One of the things that I like todo almost just for fun, in fact
, I just posted something likethis here recently on Facebook
was asking chat DBT.
Things like the following youcan ask get a prompt like given
(12:43):
everything you know about me,what are some of the
shortcomings that you see aboutme that I don't see about me?
What are some of theshortcomings that you, you know,
you you see about me that Idon't see about myself?
And I had a friend I ranthrough this exercise and he's
like, yeah, this is, this seemsreally accurate.
And he's like you know, um.
Another one, too, just for fun,was like um, hey, um, you know,
(13:05):
generate an image of what it'slike or what is it.
Generate an image of what it'swhat it's like when I use chat
GBT, right, and it, you know,just creates this composite
image of some of the variouselements that you add in there.
So, yeah, privacy is privacy, Ithink is going to become.
Well, I don't know, I thinkprivacy in some regards is kind
(13:29):
of dead.
I hate to say it, but we're inthis environment where it's
really hard to be privateanymore, especially if you're in
any kind of environment whereyou're utilizing these tools.
That's difficult.
Dr. William Attaway (13:40):
It's difficult because that's
something that so many of ushold dear, and giving up that
privacy right even for the sakeof the conveniences that AI have
brought into the conversationyeah, and that's a tough trade
for me to think about.
Adam Chronister (14:02):
Yeah, I mean, in my line of work, I kind of
gave up on it a long time ago,right, and in fact now I'm on
the opposite end where not Ican't say everything that I do
is public.
Obviously, there's a lot ofthings I do, you know, in my
family and my personal life thatyou know I don't put on the web
, but I think it is one of thosethings that you know.
(14:31):
People that want to build abrand, be it personal or
business, have to figure outwhat their comfort level is
around privacy, because buildinga brand, I would say these days
I'm almost seeing more of ashift towards the personal brand
, even beyond just the business,although in some realm you kind
of got to create both.
But if you're on board withthis idea of building a personal
brand, which inevitably issomething that's going to help
(14:52):
get your name out there, you'regoing to have to sacrifice some
privacy, right.
And yeah, I mean, it's one ofthose things, like you just kind
of got to figure out yourcomfort level and where you're
at with it all I get that?
Dr. William Attaway (15:10):
Thinking about Enleaf and how you help
your clients.
Let's shift over to that for asecond.
You provide such an incredibleservice with the knowledge base
and the expertise that you bringto bear on behalf of your
clients.
Thinking about Enleaf where doyou want it to go from here?
Adam Chronister (15:28):
I mean, I think right now, a lot of the core of
what we do, like more from theholistic, ethereal level, is
going to be the same, in thatour objective is to help solve
clients, or solve problems,rather for our clients and help
them get more visibility.
(15:49):
You know, in the larger worldof the web right Now, the means
in which we do that is going tocontinue to shift over time.
Right, but most business owners, you know they, have core
competencies that they, you know, build upon each and every day,
(16:09):
and marketing isn't always oneof those things.
Right, and I could say the samefor me.
Right, there's a reason I don'tchange my oil or fix my own
engine on my vehicle.
Now, could I go to YouTube andlearn how to do some of these
things?
Absolutely, I probably could,but my time is better spent in
my craft and my discipline, andso that's kind of the way I
(16:30):
think about it is, we like toposition ourselves not just as a
vendor or a client, but reallya partner in the businesses that
engage with us.
And I think that's the mostrewarding part of what we do at
(16:51):
Enleaf is we have theopportunity to help businesses
along their journey, and we'veseen I mean numerous businesses,
some of them literally startingfrom the ground floor where
we're helping them articulatetheir branding, their web design
, their marketing strategy allthe way to exits and seeing, you
know, seeing the founder, theco-founder, being able to retire
(17:14):
.
Right, I have one, you know,client Now I call him a friend
that we did just that for him,you know, helped him exit a
business for, you know, tens ofmillions of dollars.
Now he's, you know, he's movedhis family over to the
Philippines, which is his dream,and that's just really
rewarding right To be a part ofthat story and there's numerous
(17:39):
like that that we've been ableto be along for the ride for
what a beautiful thing, what agreat privilege to be, what a
great privilege.
Dr. William Attaway (17:50):
Yeah, adam, you know, as, as we're talking
about your journey and you knowwith, with Enleaf and beyond, a
lot of people look at you fromthe outside and they're looking
at your highlight reel.
Sure, and a lot of the peoplewho are listening today may be
thinking, oh yeah, but Adam andhis journey has just been up and
to the right, like he reallyhadn't had to struggle, like I
(18:12):
do, he really hadn't had to dealwith the challenges that I have
to deal with.
If you were sitting across thetable having coffee with
somebody saying that, what wouldbe your response?
Adam Chronister (18:21):
I think I would say, if you only knew, yeah,
yeah, I mean, I think that's thetrap, that's, that's the.
I think that's the dark side ofof social media.
You know and you see the samething People say the same thing
about and, trust me, I'm I'mnowhere close to you know people
(18:42):
like Mark Zuckerberg or ElonMusk, ork or these.
You know these figures, so Idon't even want to make that
comparison.
But people do the same thingwith figures of that stature,
thinking like, oh, it must benice, right, but what they don't
see is like you know the, the,the road of, of, uh, of
treachery that often you knowfor runs that right, um, and
(19:05):
also, on the flip, I don't thinkthat I don't personally, I
don't think I'm any anyonespecial, right?
I think, if anything, the onlything that maybe sets me apart
from maybe some of my peers is II've always had a emphasis on
personal development.
(19:26):
I mean, I know I see a ton ofbooks behind you In my office I
have a pretty large bookshelf,and so I have always been a
constant learner, even though Iwas in school.
You know I was a horriblestudent and actually that's part
of my story.
Like all throughout high schoolI struggled.
I was, you know, I was a CDstudent and then, somewhere
(19:47):
along the way, I married ateacher and she's, you know,
kind of looking at me, you know,with the stink eye and like, ok
, you got to go into softwaredevelopment, like I had, you
know, I don't know what, what Iwas thinking, but hindsight, you
(20:13):
know, uh is 2020 and I'm, I'mbetter for it, you know, and so
I think that's the key foranyone's that's like well, well,
how do I better myself?
Maybe you're there early intheir, their trajectory.
Uh, I would say the, the, thecliche, but you know that that
also also really holds true islike invest in yourself first,
(20:35):
right?
I?
think if, if that's your lifemotto, like you're going to get
further than you would otherwise, and so that's what I attribute
most of my success to is justthat willingness to be able to
learn and to be hungry todevelop myself, regardless of
what that looked like.
But yeah, there were lots ofperiods where I didn't know, you
(20:57):
know, the trajectory that I'dbe on today was even possible
for myself.
Dr. William Attaway (21:03):
So, thinking about that trajectory
and the habits and the rhythmsthat you have, you know your
business I mean Antleaf needsyou to lead at a higher level
today than it did three yearsago, five years ago.
The same thing is going to betrue five years from now, of
course, yeah.
So what are the rhythms andhabits that you have built into
your life, or the things thatyou have done to continue to
(21:26):
level up as a leader, so thatyou'll be the leader your team
and your clients need in theyears to come?
Adam Chronister (21:34):
Yeah, that I think that's the biggest
challenge for a lot of businessowners.
One part of this journey likein in personal development, has
led me to seek out communitiesand people that you know are
doing what I want to be doingnext, right, people that are a
few steps ahead of me In fact,that's how we met right Through
(21:56):
one of these communities.
But that has also led me andpushed me to do things outside
of my comfort zone.
Right, I was at a stage where Iwas very, you know, kind of one
man band for a while and I wasvery nervous about bringing on
other team members to the fold.
Right, letting go of the reins.
(22:17):
And once I got over that fearand then actually implemented it
and realized, like, actuallythis is an asset, not a deficit,
you know, to me and to mybusiness, that's just one of
those examples of stepping upthat ladder, right, but with
that it's required that I stepback, I give up a little bit of
(22:41):
control, I put trust into otherpeople as opposed to putting all
that trust in myself.
Right, as entrepreneurs andbusiness owners, especially in
the early stage, it's easy to becomfortable with what you know.
It's like, oh, I know this, Iknow how to do this.
I'm good at A, b and C but thento give up that ownership and
(23:05):
allow others to make mistakes,to learn to fumble the football,
that becomes a whole newchallenge, right?
And there's so many exampleslike this, you know, but I think
that's the key is always begrowing and you know, and figure
out what is that next thingthat scares you but that you
know you need to do right that.
(23:27):
I think that's the key togrowth in and out of business.
I think that's brilliant.
Dr. William Attaway (23:32):
I love that you shared that and I really
hope our listeners are writingsome notes, because there's so
much wisdom in what you justsaid.
As you think about yourlearning and the books that
you've read, the things that youhave taken in, is there one
that stands out that's made areally big difference in your
journey that you would say, hey,if you haven't read this, this
(23:56):
is one that's worth your time?
Adam Chronister (23:58):
I mean there's so many, I don't know that this
would be the first book I wouldrecommend, necessarily, although
it's definitely a good read,but it is, uh, and it's fairly
kind of, I guess, outdated.
But it was the book that got mestarted down this
entrepreneurial journey andthat's the four hour work week.
That was the first book thatkind of opened my eyes to like,
(24:20):
oh wow, there's a different wayto approach life and business
outside of you know, the ratrace, right.
And so, man, I read that bookso many times when I was working
, you know, working as a typicalemployee and it was kind of the
(24:41):
model and dream that I alwayswanted, right, and it's funny,
like all the way from from theideas that are in that book,
like one of them was, like youknow, pushing the envelope
inside of a business to to workremote while you're working for
another company.
You know I pushed that model.
So I was one of these guys that, even before I started the
(25:01):
agency, um, I pushed theenvelope, you know, and said,
hey, I'd like to work remote for, you know, one day out of the
week, and then that became aweek and then eventually I had a
job where I worked remotely fora month.
Right, and I was the only one,you know, with the cojones, so
(25:35):
to speak, to push the envelopeall the way to the point now
where I run my own agency.
I feel extremely blessed.
I'm in a week and a half.
I'm taking off for Costa Ricafor a month, and a was implanted
in my head like that's what Iwant.
Right, and that's not foreverybody, but I always wanted
to position our agency as alifestyle business.
Right, so that we could enjoythe work we do but also enjoy
the life that that work providesus, as well as our clients.
(25:57):
Right, and so that's number one, and there's.
I mean we could probably talkabout books all day.
There's a lot other, a lot ofothers that I think, more from a
high level give me a lot ofperspective, but that was the
one that really got me started.
Dr. William Attaway (26:14):
That's fantastic and I love.
I love the idea of creatingintentionally the life you want
to live and then designing yourbusiness around that.
Yes, I think there's a lot ofwisdom there and a lot of people
do that exactly backwards.
They create a business and thentry to fit their life into it.
Adam Chronister (26:30):
Right.
A lot of times people, theyleave something and then
recreate it, if not makesomething worse, right yeah
absolutely I see that a lot,where people, you know, they
start a business because maybethey maybe they don't
acknowledge it yet, but theywant, they want maybe a
lifestyle business, but and itends up being this behemoth and
(26:51):
then and then they're back, youknow, maybe they take on
investors and then they haveanother boss again, right, like,
and I've been through that andthere is no perfect path Right,
there are some people that thatis their life aim is, they want
to have a company with hundredsof people and that's where they
find their joy in providing.
(27:13):
You know, this company thatmaybe is trying to get, you know
, publicly traded.
I don't fault anyone for thatif that is, if that is your life
mission, but I do think it'simportant for those that are
starting into business to reallyunderstand what do I want this
business to do for me, what aremy goals?
And that was a, honestly earlyon, that was one something I
(27:34):
challenged.
I was challenged with because,um, I got all this like noise
about, oh, you have to create,you know, what I now understand
as a growth business.
Right, it's a bring on lots ofemployees and have, you know, a
huge office space and, you know,get funding.
And that never sat well with me,but I heard one somebody once
(27:55):
say like there's two paths.
There's the growth business andthe lifestyle business, and
both of them are okay.
You just have to understandwhat it is you're going after.
And that was the first time Iwas like okay, that's, you know
the term I could associate withwhat I really wanted out of a
business, right?
So, yeah, it's good to defineyour terms and understand where
(28:16):
you want to be in five or 10years with a business.
Do you want to run it forever?
Do you want to retire it andhand it off to your kids, or do
you want to sell it off somedayand have a nice exit, or, you
know, or a handful of any otherdifferent options?
But having some of thatforesight, at least as a
trajectory, I think is helpfulso that you don't you know you
(28:37):
don't get lost in the businessand someday look at yourself and
be like what am I doing here,right?
Dr. William Attaway (28:44):
It's so true, adam.
This has been such a fantasticconversation and I could talk to
you for another hour just tounpack so much of the wisdom
that you have gained so far inyour journey and I know your
best is still to come.
Our listeners are going to wantto stay connected to you, I
know and learn more about youand Enleaf and everything that
(29:07):
you're doing.
What is the best way for themto do that?
Adam Chronister (29:11):
Honestly, you can find me pretty easily.
You know we talked aboutprivacy.
There's not a lot of it with me, so, simply, you know, just do
a Google search for my name,adam Chronister.
It's fairly unique.
Or you can look up Endleaf.
You know we have a lot ofdifferent examples of what we do
Facebook and X and LinkedIn andso, however you like to engage
(29:32):
with me, just do a search for myname.
I'll be there and happy toconnect with people there.
Dr. William Attaway (29:45):
So I love it.
We'll have those links in theshow notes, adam.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
My pleasure, yeah.
Thank you so much for theopportunity.
I am so excited today to have Adam
Chronister on the podcast.
Adam is a trailblazing digitalmarketing expert and the founder
of Enleaf, a highly successfulUS-based agency known for its
data-driven SEO strategies.
With over a decade ofexperience, adam has propelled
major American brands tosignificant growth, boosting
(00:24):
revenues from modest beginningsto millions of dollars monthly.
His innovative approach tosearch engine optimization and
marketing automation have earnedhim recognition in prestigious
outlets like MarketWatch, wiredand the Wall Street Journal.
A sought-after speaker, adamfrequently shares his insights
(00:44):
on topics ranging from AI inmarketing to online privacy and
cryptocurrency, blendingentrepreneurial vision with a
passion for empoweringbusinesses to thrive in the
digital age.
Adam, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Adam Chronister (01:02):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
I'm looking forward to ourconversation.
Dr. William Attaway (01:05):
I am as well.
Intro (01:09):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed
to help leaders intentionallygrow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway coach, DrWilliam Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:31):
I would love to start with you sharing a
little bit of your story withour listeners, Adam,
particularly around your journeyand your development as a
leader.
How did you get started?
Adam Chronister (01:38):
Well, I mean, honestly, a lot of it started
right out of college.
My background is in softwaredevelopment, at least
educationally, that's how I gotmy started.
So I have a background or adegree in computer science, but
I got about three-fourths of theway through my degree I don't
know if anyone has had thisexperience and then kind of
(01:59):
realized, like I don't know ifthis is the trajectory for me At
least, staring at code interminals all day Right.
And nonetheless I was, you know, I was, I was three feet deep
in the midst of it, and so Ifinished out my degree, luckily
landed a job at a softwaredevelopment startup as a project
manager, and honestly, it wasthat opportunity, I think, that
(02:24):
really opened my eyes to theidea that I could work in the
industry without having tonecessarily put all my efforts
towards writing codespecifically.
And I still, to this day, verymuch love all things web design,
(02:44):
development, creativity andthen, of course, marketing.
Right, it was this sameopportunity at kind of a nimble
startup where they had nomarketing presence.
At the time, you know, platformslike Twitter and now X were
very new and I just kind of, youknow, naturally gravitated
towards this idea of, you know,marketing online and the company
at the time I was working for.
(03:05):
They were doing some cool stuffin the gaming space, doing some
conferences.
But you know, I went to theowners, my bosses at the company
, and said, hey, I know you guysaren't doing anything in the
realm of marketing.
I've been dabbling around withthis digital marketing stuff and
I'd love to maybe try out myhand at some campaigns.
And you know, if you've everbeen in a startup and you know
(03:29):
volunteer usually you know ifthey're nimble they just say
yeah, go for it, have fun.
And that was kind of thebeginning of the trajectory for
me, right?
That really kind of compelledmy interest to take things even
further.
Be it, you know, running anagency focusing on digital
marketing, all of the,everything within that arena,
(03:51):
essentially.
Dr. William Attaway (03:53):
So what kind of clients do you work with
in Enleaf?
Adam Chronister (03:57):
We work with a pretty broad set of clients
quite honestly.
Honestly, you name the industry.
We've probably worked with itright, everything from SAS to
SMBs.
We do offer a fair amount inthe vacation rental industry.
So, while we don't specificallyniche on any given industry, we
have kind of carved out, Ithink, a name in that particular
(04:20):
space Just because you know youdo a good project and good work
and the word gets out right.
And especially in industrieslike that, they're pretty tight
knit and so, yeah, we've done alot in that space.
But, honestly, just aboutanything in the realm of search
marketing, we've done it andworked with clients.
(04:41):
We ended up doing a lot too inthe industrial contracting space
.
Again, that's another one ofthose case studies where you
know word gets out that you dida good job for a company, why
Somebody moves to the, you knowmoves along and brings you into
the fold, and so we get a lot ofbusiness from you know, both
existing clients and thenclients that have moved on to
(05:02):
other companies and want us todo the same thing.
We did, you know, maybe intheir prior endeavor.
Dr. William Attaway (05:08):
So you know you've been in the agency and
the marketing space for a minuteand you have.
You have seen a lot of fads andtrends.
Come and go Things, thingsexpand and change.
As you look across the fieldtoday, or look across the game
board, where do you see thepieces moving?
(05:29):
What are the trends that you'reseeing headed our way?
Adam Chronister (05:33):
I mean, I think we've seen a fracture like a
fracturing of marketing channelsfor some time now, right, and I
don't see that, I think, insome respects, changing.
We're in an environment wherethey're, you know, with the
things with with things likepodcasts and different you know,
(05:55):
social media, marketing groups,all of these things a whole
market and industry or followingyou know, onto yourself, right,
and then also with technologieslike AI and all of this stuff
like the, the fracturing of whatworks, I think, is becoming
(06:15):
more diverse, and what I mean bythis is there used to be a time
early in my career, where itwas pretty common for agencies
to be focused on one particulardiscipline, right, and companies
could survive just fine bymaybe only doing Facebook ads or
only doing Google ads or onlydoing SEO right.
(06:36):
For a long time, that was ourbig focus was primarily search
engine optimization, and we hadclients.
That that's all they did and itworked great.
But it's getting morechallenging, and so we're almost
to the point where businesseshave to really think of their
marketing as almost like a wholemarketing suite, right, whether
(06:58):
that's team members, partnersor tool sets that get your
message out to the vast, youknow, audience that are out
there across multiple channels.
Dr. William Attaway (07:10):
That's interesting.
And thinking SEO.
You know that's a world thatthere's a lot of change
presently in Absolutely language.
Thinking about it in terms of asuite.
Think in SEO, like with therise of AI, and we're seeing
people using AI as a search toolnow instead of Googling.
(07:33):
And that's only going to becomemore prevalent.
I think what are you seeing?
The changes that agencies or inthe whole marketing field needs
to be thinking about when itcomes to SEO.
Adam Chronister (07:45):
Yeah, well, it's definitely changing the
arena, the environment, so tospeak.
You know, for those of us inthe West that already have AI
overviews, for instance, inGoogle, you'll see that the
search results are changingquite a bit.
Right Now, one of the veryfirst things you see at the top
(08:09):
of the fold is those AIoverviews.
Right Now, one of the veryfirst things you see at top of
the fold is those AI overviews,right, and so everything else
gets pushed down, even GoogleAds.
Google Ads used to be the verytop aspect of search, and now
most search queries that'sposition two, right.
Position three, if you're doinga local search, is going to be
Google Maps, and now positionfour, a lot of times is, like
you know, going to be like siteslike Reddit, and then your
(08:29):
traditional, organic, organicresults are are completely below
the fold, right and so.
So, yeah, the the environmentis changing.
The other way I like to look atall of this really, though, is
I like to think of it as digitalreal estate, and our goal as
(08:49):
business owners, as marketers,is to really absorb as much
digital real estate as we can,whether that's specifically in
the search results or takingthat further and getting
visibility across social mediachannels or some combination of
the two of those.
But yeah, we're seeing AI startto swallow up a percentage of
(09:15):
click-through rates for a lot ofwebsites.
We've seen click-through ratesfor a lot of sites go
essentially in half.
We're seeing challenges withattribution.
Right now.
A lot of that organic trafficthat is being intercepted by AI
is now primarily direct, in somecases referral traffic, and
(09:36):
then the attribution on that isa little bit more challenging
than it used to be.
Now, just like anytechnological change with new
problems becomes, you know, newopportunities, Right, and so
there are.
There are companies that I thinkare going to come, you know,
come out of the woodwork thatare going to help with, you know
, bridging the gap onattribution work in the realm of
(10:01):
almost more like AI visibilityanalytics.
But yeah, it's a changing tidefor sure.
Google, for instance, justannounced that their Google
Search Console tool is soongoing to have some kind of AI
attribution, but it's not thereyet.
So we are really in this kindof midterm period where we still
(10:23):
have to be doing the activitiesthat get your business, you
know, out there and noticed, butwe're in a midterm period where
I think attribution is going tobecome even more challenging,
but I think in time some of thatis going to start to level out
as tools and companies comealong and start to, you know,
(10:43):
resolve this new emergingchallenge that we're facing with
AI and attributing that back tomarketing campaigns.
Dr. William Attaway (10:52):
How do you see this intersecting the world
of online privacy?
Adam Chronister (10:56):
That's challenging.
I mean, the thing is like whenit comes to privacy and even the
way that we do search.
Now, with large language models, it's completely different.
I mean, before you go to Googleand you do, you know, maybe a
three or four keyword search,like you know how to find a
plumber near me, but with largelanguage models, I mean it's
(11:19):
becoming more and more of a normwhere I mean I even find myself
like looking for advice onthings in my personal life,
right, and the nuance that Igive it in order to get the
results I'm looking for back ismuch more, um, much more in
detail than you know, anything Iever put in a search engine.
So it is.
(11:40):
It is somewhat concerningbecause, um, I'm you know that
is going to become more and moreof a topic.
I heard about a story just thisweek about and I forget the
specifics, but the generaltakeaway is that you know, I
think it was a court case orsomething where they were, you
(12:00):
know, basically indicating thatopen AI keeps a record of a lot
of the stuff on the backend.
So, just like you know, legalagencies have gone in and
subpoenaed Google for searchresults.
I imagine it's just a matter oftime, if that hasn't already
happened.
Where you know, law agenciesare going to be able to subpoena
(12:20):
OpenAI for your search queryresults and get much more
nuanced information about you,right?
One of the things that I like todo almost just for fun, in fact
, I just posted something likethis here recently on Facebook
was asking chat DBT.
Things like the following youcan ask get a prompt like given
(12:43):
everything you know about me,what are some of the
shortcomings that you see aboutme that I don't see about me?
What are some of theshortcomings that you, you know,
you you see about me that Idon't see about myself?
And I had a friend I ranthrough this exercise and he's
like, yeah, this is, this seemsreally accurate.
And he's like you know, um.
Another one, too, just for fun,was like um, hey, um, you know,
(13:05):
generate an image of what it'slike or what is it.
Generate an image of what it'swhat it's like when I use chat
GBT, right, and it, you know,just creates this composite
image of some of the variouselements that you add in there.
So, yeah, privacy is privacy, Ithink is going to become.
Well, I don't know, I thinkprivacy in some regards is kind
(13:29):
of dead.
I hate to say it, but we're inthis environment where it's
really hard to be privateanymore, especially if you're in
any kind of environment whereyou're utilizing these tools.
That's difficult.
Dr. William Attaway (13:40):
It's difficult because that's
something that so many of ushold dear, and giving up that
privacy right even for the sakeof the conveniences that AI have
brought into the conversationyeah, and that's a tough trade
for me to think about.
Adam Chronister (14:02):
Yeah, I mean, in my line of work, I kind of
gave up on it a long time ago,right, and in fact now I'm on
the opposite end where not Ican't say everything that I do
is public.
Obviously, there's a lot ofthings I do, you know, in my
family and my personal life thatyou know I don't put on the web
, but I think it is one of thosethings that you know.
(14:31):
People that want to build abrand, be it personal or
business, have to figure outwhat their comfort level is
around privacy, because buildinga brand, I would say these days
I'm almost seeing more of ashift towards the personal brand
, even beyond just the business,although in some realm you kind
of got to create both.
But if you're on board withthis idea of building a personal
brand, which inevitably issomething that's going to help
(14:52):
get your name out there, you'regoing to have to sacrifice some
privacy, right.
And yeah, I mean, it's one ofthose things, like you just kind
of got to figure out yourcomfort level and where you're
at with it all I get that?
Dr. William Attaway (15:10):
Thinking about Enleaf and how you help
your clients.
Let's shift over to that for asecond.
You provide such an incredibleservice with the knowledge base
and the expertise that you bringto bear on behalf of your
clients.
Thinking about Enleaf where doyou want it to go from here?
Adam Chronister (15:28):
I mean, I think right now, a lot of the core of
what we do, like more from theholistic, ethereal level, is
going to be the same, in thatour objective is to help solve
clients, or solve problems,rather for our clients and help
them get more visibility.
(15:49):
You know, in the larger worldof the web right Now, the means
in which we do that is going tocontinue to shift over time.
Right, but most business owners, you know they, have core
competencies that they, you know, build upon each and every day,
(16:09):
and marketing isn't always oneof those things.
Right, and I could say the samefor me.
Right, there's a reason I don'tchange my oil or fix my own
engine on my vehicle.
Now, could I go to YouTube andlearn how to do some of these
things?
Absolutely, I probably could,but my time is better spent in
my craft and my discipline, andso that's kind of the way I
(16:30):
think about it is, we like toposition ourselves not just as a
vendor or a client, but reallya partner in the businesses that
engage with us.
And I think that's the mostrewarding part of what we do at
(16:51):
Enleaf is we have theopportunity to help businesses
along their journey, and we'veseen I mean numerous businesses,
some of them literally startingfrom the ground floor where
we're helping them articulatetheir branding, their web design
, their marketing strategy allthe way to exits and seeing, you
know, seeing the founder, theco-founder, being able to retire
(17:14):
.
Right, I have one, you know,client Now I call him a friend
that we did just that for him,you know, helped him exit a
business for, you know, tens ofmillions of dollars.
Now he's, you know, he's movedhis family over to the
Philippines, which is his dream,and that's just really
rewarding right To be a part ofthat story and there's numerous
(17:39):
like that that we've been ableto be along for the ride for
what a beautiful thing, what agreat privilege to be, what a
great privilege.
Dr. William Attaway (17:50):
Yeah, adam, you know, as, as we're talking
about your journey and you knowwith, with Enleaf and beyond, a
lot of people look at you fromthe outside and they're looking
at your highlight reel.
Sure, and a lot of the peoplewho are listening today may be
thinking, oh yeah, but Adam andhis journey has just been up and
to the right, like he reallyhadn't had to struggle, like I
(18:12):
do, he really hadn't had to dealwith the challenges that I have
to deal with.
If you were sitting across thetable having coffee with
somebody saying that, what wouldbe your response?
Adam Chronister (18:21):
I think I would say, if you only knew, yeah,
yeah, I mean, I think that's thetrap, that's, that's the.
I think that's the dark side ofof social media.
You know and you see the samething People say the same thing
about and, trust me, I'm I'mnowhere close to you know people
(18:42):
like Mark Zuckerberg or ElonMusk, ork or these.
You know these figures, so Idon't even want to make that
comparison.
But people do the same thingwith figures of that stature,
thinking like, oh, it must benice, right, but what they don't
see is like you know the, the,the road of, of, uh, of
treachery that often you knowfor runs that right, um, and
(19:05):
also, on the flip, I don't thinkthat I don't personally, I
don't think I'm any anyonespecial, right?
I think, if anything, the onlything that maybe sets me apart
from maybe some of my peers is II've always had a emphasis on
personal development.
(19:26):
I mean, I know I see a ton ofbooks behind you In my office I
have a pretty large bookshelf,and so I have always been a
constant learner, even though Iwas in school.
You know I was a horriblestudent and actually that's part
of my story.
Like all throughout high schoolI struggled.
I was, you know, I was a CDstudent and then, somewhere
(19:47):
along the way, I married ateacher and she's, you know,
kind of looking at me, you know,with the stink eye and like, ok
, you got to go into softwaredevelopment, like I had, you
know, I don't know what, what Iwas thinking, but hindsight, you
(20:13):
know, uh is 2020 and I'm, I'mbetter for it, you know, and so
I think that's the key foranyone's that's like well, well,
how do I better myself?
Maybe you're there early intheir, their trajectory.
Uh, I would say the, the, thecliche, but you know that that
also also really holds true islike invest in yourself first,
(20:35):
right?
I?
think if, if that's your lifemotto, like you're going to get
further than you would otherwise, and so that's what I attribute
most of my success to is justthat willingness to be able to
learn and to be hungry todevelop myself, regardless of
what that looked like.
But yeah, there were lots ofperiods where I didn't know, you
(20:57):
know, the trajectory that I'dbe on today was even possible
for myself.
Dr. William Attaway (21:03):
So, thinking about that trajectory
and the habits and the rhythmsthat you have, you know your
business I mean Antleaf needsyou to lead at a higher level
today than it did three yearsago, five years ago.
The same thing is going to betrue five years from now, of
course, yeah.
So what are the rhythms andhabits that you have built into
your life, or the things thatyou have done to continue to
(21:26):
level up as a leader, so thatyou'll be the leader your team
and your clients need in theyears to come?
Adam Chronister (21:34):
Yeah, that I think that's the biggest
challenge for a lot of businessowners.
One part of this journey likein in personal development, has
led me to seek out communitiesand people that you know are
doing what I want to be doingnext, right, people that are a
few steps ahead of me In fact,that's how we met right Through
(21:56):
one of these communities.
But that has also led me andpushed me to do things outside
of my comfort zone.
Right, I was at a stage where Iwas very, you know, kind of one
man band for a while and I wasvery nervous about bringing on
other team members to the fold.
Right, letting go of the reins.
(22:17):
And once I got over that fearand then actually implemented it
and realized, like, actuallythis is an asset, not a deficit,
you know, to me and to mybusiness, that's just one of
those examples of stepping upthat ladder, right, but with
that it's required that I stepback, I give up a little bit of
(22:41):
control, I put trust into otherpeople as opposed to putting all
that trust in myself.
Right, as entrepreneurs andbusiness owners, especially in
the early stage, it's easy to becomfortable with what you know.
It's like, oh, I know this, Iknow how to do this.
I'm good at A, b and C but thento give up that ownership and
(23:05):
allow others to make mistakes,to learn to fumble the football,
that becomes a whole newchallenge, right?
And there's so many exampleslike this, you know, but I think
that's the key is always begrowing and you know, and figure
out what is that next thingthat scares you but that you
know you need to do right that.
(23:27):
I think that's the key togrowth in and out of business.
I think that's brilliant.
Dr. William Attaway (23:32):
I love that you shared that and I really
hope our listeners are writingsome notes, because there's so
much wisdom in what you justsaid.
As you think about yourlearning and the books that
you've read, the things that youhave taken in, is there one
that stands out that's made areally big difference in your
journey that you would say, hey,if you haven't read this, this
(23:56):
is one that's worth your time?
Adam Chronister (23:58):
I mean there's so many, I don't know that this
would be the first book I wouldrecommend, necessarily, although
it's definitely a good read,but it is, uh, and it's fairly
kind of, I guess, outdated.
But it was the book that got mestarted down this
entrepreneurial journey andthat's the four hour work week.
That was the first book thatkind of opened my eyes to like,
(24:20):
oh wow, there's a different wayto approach life and business
outside of you know, the ratrace, right.
And so, man, I read that bookso many times when I was working
, you know, working as a typicalemployee and it was kind of the
(24:41):
model and dream that I alwayswanted, right, and it's funny,
like all the way from from theideas that are in that book,
like one of them was, like youknow, pushing the envelope
inside of a business to to workremote while you're working for
another company.
You know I pushed that model.
So I was one of these guys that, even before I started the
(25:01):
agency, um, I pushed theenvelope, you know, and said,
hey, I'd like to work remote for, you know, one day out of the
week, and then that became aweek and then eventually I had a
job where I worked remotely fora month.
Right, and I was the only one,you know, with the cojones, so
(25:35):
to speak, to push the envelopeall the way to the point now
where I run my own agency.
I feel extremely blessed.
I'm in a week and a half.
I'm taking off for Costa Ricafor a month, and a was implanted
in my head like that's what Iwant.
Right, and that's not foreverybody, but I always wanted
to position our agency as alifestyle business.
Right, so that we could enjoythe work we do but also enjoy
the life that that work providesus, as well as our clients.
(25:57):
Right, and so that's number one, and there's.
I mean we could probably talkabout books all day.
There's a lot other, a lot ofothers that I think, more from a
high level give me a lot ofperspective, but that was the
one that really got me started.
Dr. William Attaway (26:14):
That's fantastic and I love.
I love the idea of creatingintentionally the life you want
to live and then designing yourbusiness around that.
Yes, I think there's a lot ofwisdom there and a lot of people
do that exactly backwards.
They create a business and thentry to fit their life into it.
Adam Chronister (26:30):
Right.
A lot of times people, theyleave something and then
recreate it, if not makesomething worse, right yeah
absolutely I see that a lot,where people, you know, they
start a business because maybethey maybe they don't
acknowledge it yet, but theywant, they want maybe a
lifestyle business, but and itends up being this behemoth and
(26:51):
then and then they're back, youknow, maybe they take on
investors and then they haveanother boss again, right, like,
and I've been through that andthere is no perfect path Right,
there are some people that thatis their life aim is, they want
to have a company with hundredsof people and that's where they
find their joy in providing.
(27:13):
You know, this company thatmaybe is trying to get, you know
, publicly traded.
I don't fault anyone for thatif that is, if that is your life
mission, but I do think it'simportant for those that are
starting into business to reallyunderstand what do I want this
business to do for me, what aremy goals?
And that was a, honestly earlyon, that was one something I
(27:34):
challenged.
I was challenged with because,um, I got all this like noise
about, oh, you have to create,you know, what I now understand
as a growth business.
Right, it's a bring on lots ofemployees and have, you know, a
huge office space and, you know,get funding.
And that never sat well with me,but I heard one somebody once
(27:55):
say like there's two paths.
There's the growth business andthe lifestyle business, and
both of them are okay.
You just have to understandwhat it is you're going after.
And that was the first time Iwas like okay, that's, you know
the term I could associate withwhat I really wanted out of a
business, right?
So, yeah, it's good to defineyour terms and understand where
(28:16):
you want to be in five or 10years with a business.
Do you want to run it forever?
Do you want to retire it andhand it off to your kids, or do
you want to sell it off somedayand have a nice exit, or, you
know, or a handful of any otherdifferent options?
But having some of thatforesight, at least as a
trajectory, I think is helpfulso that you don't you know you
(28:37):
don't get lost in the businessand someday look at yourself and
be like what am I doing here,right?
Dr. William Attaway (28:44):
It's so true, adam.
This has been such a fantasticconversation and I could talk to
you for another hour just tounpack so much of the wisdom
that you have gained so far inyour journey and I know your
best is still to come.
Our listeners are going to wantto stay connected to you, I
know and learn more about youand Enleaf and everything that
(29:07):
you're doing.
What is the best way for themto do that?
Adam Chronister (29:11):
Honestly, you can find me pretty easily.
You know we talked aboutprivacy.
There's not a lot of it with me, so, simply, you know, just do
a Google search for my name,adam Chronister.
It's fairly unique.
Or you can look up Endleaf.
You know we have a lot ofdifferent examples of what we do
Facebook and X and LinkedIn andso, however you like to engage
(29:32):
with me, just do a search for myname.
I'll be there and happy toconnect with people there.
Dr. William Attaway (29:45):
So I love it.
We'll have those links in theshow notes, adam.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
My pleasure, yeah.
Thank you so much for theopportunity.
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