What if you could build a thriving agency in just 9 months—without fancy VC backing, a massive ad spend, or years of struggle?
In this episode of the Catalytic Leadership™ Podcast, I sit down with Jake Sucoff, founder of Patient Procure, who scaled a niche healthcare marketing agency faster than most entrepreneurs even get their first 10 clients. Jake shares the exact proven systems, automation strategies, and leadership wins that allowed him to not just grow—but thrive—in record time.
We dig deep into the leadership mindsets, team-building frameworks, and operational playbooks that elite agency owners are searching for right now. Jake reveals why email and SEO are still secret weapons for client retention, why personal branding drives conversions, and why you must stop being the bottleneck if you want a team that thrives without your constant involvement.
If you're ready to stop guessing and start scaling with precision, this conversation will equip you with actionable steps to move faster, smarter, and with a leadership foundation that can sustain 7-figure growth and beyond.
Connect with Jake Sucoff:
To connect with Jake, visit www.patientprocure.com or his personal site www.heyjakey.com for insights into leadership, marketing, and growth strategies. Email: jake@patientprocure.com.
Books Mentioned:
- The E-Myth by Michael E. Gerber
- Radical Candor by Kim Scott
- Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
- Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:
Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
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Connect with Dr. William Attaway:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. William Attaway (00:00):
I am thrilled today to have on the
podcast.
Jake is an entrepreneur,marketer and a four-time best
man.
He's the founder and CEO ofPatient Procure, a marketing
agency that specializes inhelping medical practices book
their ideal patients and keepthem coming back.
(00:21):
Patpro leverages exceptionalcontent, storytelling and
technology to create reliablepatient funnels so practitioners
can focus on what they do bestcaring for patients.
Jake's career spans 15 years ofbuilding and launching products
across diverse markets,including B2B, saas, enterprise
(00:44):
healthcare, a startup incubatorand loyalty rewards hardware.
He has spent these yearsworking directly with C-suite
executives, pitching inhigh-pressure environments and
using data to influencedecisions.
Jake's real passion is hisfamily, his friends and music.
He's constantly tinkering withautomation and AI these days so
(01:07):
he can spend less time in theoffice and more time with the
people he loves.
Jake, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Jake Sucoff (01:15):
Thank you for having me, William, and thank
you for that extensive intro.
If I knew you were going toread the whole thing, I would
have made it shorter.
Dr. William Attaway (01:23):
I want people to get a good sense of
who you are.
I don't even need to speak.
Jake Sucoff (01:27):
You got, everybody has it all that's.
That's my whole story.
Dr. William Attaway (01:30):
So, and yet , somehow I feel like there's
more, there's a bit more.
Intro / Outro (01:40):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the
podcast designed to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:57):
Well, let's start here.
I would love to start with you,Sharon, from your perspective,
a bit of your story,particularly around your journey
and your development as aleader.
How did this whole thing getstarted?
Jake Sucoff (02:11):
I feel like I've been a leader for a long time,
which now, in hindsight, maybeis easy to say, but at the time
didn't feel like it.
I started my career in assetmanagement.
I spent a bunch of yearsselling financial products,
which taught me a ton aboutsales, cold calling, interfacing
(02:33):
, client management, and fromthere I started my first company
, which was that mobile rewardsand mobile marketing company,
text Savvy, which was a greatexperience.
That was my first taste ofmanagement.
I had an intern who was theonly person that worked with me.
I was walking door to doortrying to sell this technology
(02:54):
and I put so much of myself intoit that I didn't leave enough
for the person who I wasmanaging.
They were totally ineffectiveand it was completely my fault.
And it was a great first tasteand understanding that if you
don't give the people who areworking for you the tools to be
successful, they never will be.
From there I went to WeWorkwhere I managed our incubator
(03:15):
program.
I did that for a number ofyears where I was an independent
contributor I didn't haveanybody working under me and
from there I went into theagency world and that's where
I've truly built out myleadership capabilities or been
able to experiment with growingthem.
I wouldn't say that I am afinished product as a leader,
(03:37):
but I'm working hard every dayto be the best boss and leader
than I can.
I try to lead by example.
I try to, as I mentioned before, give people the tools to be
successful, and I am extremelyfocused today especially because
I have such a distributed teamthat's all over the world with
putting together SOPs anddocumentation and making sure
(04:00):
that the people working for mehave really clear directives and
the software and support thatthey need to be successful, and
that is extremely top of mind tome every single day.
Dr. William Attaway (04:12):
So tell me about your agency.
What distinguishes you?
Jake Sucoff (04:15):
That's a great question because I don't want to
denigrate myself and myindustry, but the reality is I
think of myself kind of as anyother service leader today.
I know that there are many,many marketing agencies that
exist and it's almost become Idon't want to say fungible or
(04:40):
just completely, just completely.
There are some differentiators,but largely you're getting a
lot of the same servicesregardless of which agency
you're working with.
So I really try to stand out inthe way that most service
providers should by providing areally, really top-notch
experience, making sure mycommunication is on point.
(05:01):
I'm extremely transparent withwhat we do and I just try to
hire the best people so that wecan provide as good a service as
anybody else.
I think that there are ways thatyou can differentiate from
create content for people, torun ads for people, to write
(05:27):
blogs for people.
They're largely the same toolsthat everybody has, so I have a
keen attention to detail.
I make sure that every piece ofcontent, everything that we
create, is an extremely highquality, but I wouldn't say that
I am producing something thatis novel compared to my
competitors.
But I do think that focusing onhealthcare allows me to get
(05:48):
lots of case studies and lots ofexperience working within the
industry, which is what myclients really are hoping for
when they work with me.
Dr. William Attaway (05:55):
You know, when healthcare practices think
about marketing, there's a lotof different perspectives and
opinions on this.
Some shy away from it.
Some wonder, like, should weeven have to do that?
Like this is something thateverybody really needs.
At some point they don't evenknow where to start or what
platform to focus on.
Where do you begin when you'retalking to somebody coming from
(06:18):
one of those perspectives?
Jake Sucoff (06:19):
I like to start with the physician's passion,
and that is often almost alwaysaround the particular specialty
that they have.
It's the reason they got intomedicine.
It's the reason that they areputting in many, many, many
hours every week, in excess ofwhat they need to, to make sure
that they are getting thediagnosis right, they're putting
(06:40):
together treatment plans andthey're making sure patients get
the care that they need.
So I start with that personalconnection to help the physician
better articulate who they are,what their specialty is and why
they do what they do.
Ultimately, patients are goingto connect with their physicians
because they feel like they'regoing to provide an outsized
(07:01):
quality of care to them, andthat comes from feeling like
they actually care.
It's in the word, right there.
So, beginning with what's thespecialty, why are they
specifically interested in itand why are they better
qualified to treat this patientthan any other physician, is the
best place to start.
Every physician, every practice, is going to have their own
(07:23):
communication style.
They're going to have their owncommunication style.
They're going to have their ownprocess, their way of
delivering care.
Those specifics can be dialedin as we work through messaging
strategy, but we like to startwith just talk about why you
care, because that's always areally great way to connect with
patients at the top of thefunnel.
(07:47):
So it feels a little bit like apersonal branding thing for the
physician then yeah, it's reallyinteresting because marketing
today, first of all, I believethat every single entity,
regardless what you do, needs tohave some kind of media aspect
to it.
If you're selling socks andthat's not to say you need to
take a stand against socialissues I think that, back to
(08:10):
this example about socks ifyou're buying socks, I don't
think they need to know who youvoted for, I don't think they
need to know your stance onhotly contested social issues,
but I do think that you need tohave a presence and connect with
your audience around whatthey're interested in Cozy feet,
but probably more specifically,are you hiking?
(08:33):
Is it for runners?
What's the landscape that yourideal customers are interested
in?
But In addition to that, thereis this growing movement of
founder-led brands, where peoplemore and more trust large
companies less and less, butthey trust individuals more and
(08:53):
more, and so you can probablyhave more success marketing
yourself and your personal brandthan you will marketing your
company.
It's no different regardlesswhether or not you are a
concierge doctor and you areseeing patients.
You don't take insurance, it'sjust your face all the way up to
if you are working at ahospital and you want to connect
(09:17):
with people, just to grow trustand have them understand who
are the physicians who arecarrying out these procedures.
It is more and more importantfor physicians to have their own
personal brand and, honestly,these days the lines have
blurred between personal andprofessional.
I think that people have becomemore comfortable with bringing
(09:38):
themselves to their work and so,through that, it becomes this
okay.
Of course, they need to knowwhat are your credentials, they
need to understand that you havethis expertise, but they also
want to know who you are and seeyour family and understand what
books you read.
And, again, to connect withpatients on a deeper level, you
need to open yourself up alittle bit and introduce more of
(10:01):
yourself than maybe you neededto in the past.
Dr. William Attaway (10:05):
You know, I think when you think about
marketing, there's so manydifferent options.
There's so many differentplaces you can be and go, so
many different platforms.
Like where do you start?
Is there one platform that youshould really focus on?
That's the best.
Where do you counsel yourclients to start?
Jake Sucoff (10:28):
Yeah, it really depends on your goals and, of
course, depending on whetheryou're trying to meet people for
the first time versus convincesomebody who's engaged with you
or your brand a few times, adifferent channel might be
appropriate over another.
What I think is reallyimportant today is the ability
(10:48):
to repurpose content, dependingon what that goal is.
It's never been easier to takea video of yourself.
Take the transcript, turn thatinto a blog post, take short
form video, put that ontoYouTube shorts or Instagram or
TikTok, or even LinkedIn hasvideo.
Now, if you're going to bespeaking to your colleagues, if
(11:10):
you're trying to get speakingengagements, if you're trying to
connect on a professional level, linkedin is going to be a
better option.
But if you want to connect withpatients, depending on what
your specialty is, you probablyare going to have a better
chance at that on Instagram oron TikTok.
But you also have to rememberthat, depending on the platform
(11:30):
you're on, there's going to be alot of competition that you're
up against, unless you're doingsome kind of viral chiropractic
service where you're recordingthe clicks and the pops from the
person, you're adjusting, oryou know.
This type of content isn't forme but the pimple popping and
(11:51):
the more graphic stuff.
I mean that has a decent shotat going viral and competing
with cat videos, but most of thephysicians I work with are not
producing content that has thatviral factor.
So we really focus on where dowe think that your target
patients are hanging out, andlet's meet them with the
(12:11):
information that they needacross the entire funnel to A
learn about the condition thatthey have.
If maybe they don't have a fullunderstanding of it yet, then
learn about your unique way thatyou treat it and then maybe get
an introduction to yourpractice and then finally, you
know, have some calls to actionwhere you are helping people.
Put all of this together andthen book an appointment with
(12:32):
you.
I didn't really answer yourquestion there.
The reality is you don'tnecessarily have to choose only
one platform and, yes, it iseasy to get paralyzed by choice.
There are so many differentareas you can start.
I try to think deeply aboutwhat's your goal and then work
backwards from that.
If it's to engage with yourexisting patients and get them
(12:54):
coming back, email is probablythe best platform for you and
that's the one that, betweenthat and SEO, I think those are
the ones that have the greatestROI, especially when compared to
how little they're used, whencompared to paid ads and organic
social media.
I think that if you really dialin your SEO and your email
strategy, you're going toespecially after some time.
(13:17):
It does take some time to seethe fruits of your labor, but
that's going to be probably oneof the better investments you
can do.
Dr. William Attaway (13:24):
I think email and SEO makes sense.
I totally get that.
I think there's a reticence,particularly in healthcare,
around social media, you know,and really diving into what so
is crowded, to be sure, but also, gosh, is that really where I
want to be putting my business?
And I love what you said just asecond ago, because that's
(13:47):
really where your clients areand where potential clients are.
They are on social media.
You're simply going to wherethey already live and spend so
much of their time.
You know it's easy to forgetthat.
Jake Sucoff (14:01):
You know, as a business owner, even in the
healthcare field, I think andgoing back to the goal of the
strategy that you'reimplementing, I would caution I
do caution my clients and Iwould caution any other
physicians who are consideringsocial media.
Unless you do have thatextremely viral service that
you're offering, I would notthink about organic social media
(14:25):
.
Even if you do have somethingviral that you're offering, I
wouldn't think about it in termsof an acquisition strategy.
I would think about it more interms of growing your brand and
helping to grow trust and makeconnection with your target
patients.
If you're running meta ads,you're going to want to have a
really strong presence, becausethe first thing somebody is
(14:46):
going to do if they click on oneof your ads is go to your
profile and look at it.
But think of all of thedifferent potential channels and
platforms as different touchpoints.
You need to be doing anintegrative strategy.
There is some wisdom in sayingpick one platform, become an
expert at it, just keep doingthat until you feel like you've
(15:10):
reached your absolute potential.
But you don't really need tochoose anymore, especially if
you have somebody who's helpingyou manage this.
As I mentioned before, you cancreate one video, a five minute
video of yourself not even fiveis a long time.
A two minute video of yourselfthat can live on YouTube.
You can put the shorts on allof the places I mentioned.
You can get the transcript.
You can put those on to all ofthe other platforms I mentioned.
(15:33):
So you don't really need tochoose, and in fact, in some
cases you might not have anyunderstanding about where your
target audience is actuallyspending most of their time.
So by testing a lot of them atonce, you might give yourself an
opportunity to actually seewhich one deserves an outsized
amount of your attention.
Dr. William Attaway (15:52):
That's really good.
So many practices are justbecoming pervasive to leverage
email and we've touched on thata little bit but also text
messages, and this is becomingmore and more common.
Do patients really want to getall those emails and text
messages, because I mean, I geta lot of both.
(16:12):
Is that really something thatpractitioners need to think
about and physicians need tothink about, if they're not
already doing it?
Jake Sucoff (16:20):
You definitely need to think about it.
The short answer is yes.
If you look at the data, smsmessages and emails still work
and they work extremely well.
I am of the same mind ofanybody who says I am inundated
with texts and emails at thispoint and I can't take any more.
(16:41):
I feel that way and at the sametime, I know what the data is
telling me from the platformsthat I'm running campaigns on
that they do work.
So I think there's a way to doit tastefully and candidly.
If your patient doesn't wannareceive the message I don't
think them getting, it is goingto convert them from a patient
to not a patient.
(17:01):
They'll unsubscribe if theywanna unsubscribe, and that's
totally okay.
But you're probably gonna get alot greater benefit than you
are detriment if you're managingcampaigns on these channels and
it's absolutely worth.
You know email in particular itis SMS actually falls into this
category as well.
(17:22):
Of all of the marketingchannels, these are the two that
you can truly own the rails ofcommunication.
If you're putting a lot ofdollars into Facebook ads or
meta ads and any pay-per-click,the social media companies are
100% responsible for targetingyour ads to the people who they
(17:46):
deem should receive them If theychange their algorithm.
If something's happening duringthe election cycle there's lots
of ads coming in During theholidays, there's ebbs and flows
.
There are things outside ofyour control that are going to
affect your reach and are goingto affect the money that you're
putting into these channels.
That doesn't happen with emailand it doesn't happen with SMS.
(18:08):
You have a direct line to yourpatient.
You can get in touch with themwhen you send the message, and
that's extremely powerful, andas long as you're not taking
advantage of that trust andinundating them with messages,
and as long as you're doing soin an authentic way that speaks
to the true character of yourpractice, I don't think anybody
should worry about upsettingtheir patients.
Dr. William Attaway (18:29):
I think that's a really good thing for
people to hear, because theydon't want to run people off,
and so often there is thisfeeling that hey, I'm just going
to bug people, I'm just goingto bother them, and I love that
you're coming at this from adata perspective.
I think databasedecision-making is critical,
particularly when we're talkingabout running a business, and I
(18:49):
love that you bring that intothe conversation.
Jake Sucoff (18:52):
People are fickle.
I mean I, day to day, sometimesI get an email from my
healthcare provider and I'm justlike oh, another one, and I
delete it.
Sometimes that's happened wheremy first reaction is like oh,
and then I click on it and thenI think, oh, I do need to book
another appointment, and then Ido it.
So, like you, know, it worksand people's.
(19:13):
You know moods change with thewind, so you can't, unless you
are being really scammy andspending lots, sending lots and
lots of these messages.
Um, this is the the age that welive in.
If people want to hear yourmessage, then they're going to
appreciate getting a messagefrom you, and if they don't want
(19:34):
to hear it, then great, They'llself-select, they'll
unsubscribe, and then they won'tbe bothered anymore and that's
totally fine.
Dr. William Attaway (19:43):
Well said, jake.
Let me ask you this so yourbusiness needs you to lead at a
higher level today than it didjust a year or two ago, and that
same thing is going to be truea year, two years, five years
from now.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
(20:06):
team and your clients are goingto need you to have in the years
to come?
Jake Sucoff (20:10):
I love podcasts and interviews, and I love
listening to leaders from allwalks of life talking about how
they lead their journeys.
I think for me, I'm doing a lotof work on myself, on my ego,
(20:37):
and trying to be more humble andtrying to tell myself that I am
immensely, immensely lucky tobe able to do what I'm doing.
And when I wake up in themorning and I feel overly
stressed and I feel like I wantto take it out on my wife and my
children and my friends and myparents and I'm a ball of just
(21:00):
negative energy, I really try tosit down and breathe and tell
myself this is a privilege.
I had a client.
She was the CEO of amulti-state operator.
There was probably I don't know14 or so brands in the roll-up,
about 60 to 70 individualpractices all across the US, and
she used to say that and Iloved it and I've adopted that
(21:23):
as my own motto the pressure isa privilege, because it's so
true, very few people get theopportunity to do this, and so I
try to stay humble.
I try to understand that ortell myself daily that if I
don't get out of my own way, ifI don't remove myself as a
roadblock, if I don't removemyself as the bottleneck, the
company will never be assuccessful as it could be.
(21:44):
So, trying to get better atdelegating understanding that I
hire people for their expertise,not to tell them what to do, I
hire them to listen to them.
I hire them so that they'lltell me what to do and that's
been a big unlock of mine overthe past eight months as I've
run this company is to reallyunderstand that it's not about
(22:06):
me.
I am trying to find people whoare better than me to do the
jobs that I'm doing so that,first of all, I can remove
myself from the day-to-day so Ican focus on scaling the
business and interfacing withclients and making sure that
everything is operating smoothly, and also because it's going to
make our work significantlybetter.
(22:27):
I am, at my heart, I'm anoperator.
I'm a salesperson as well, butmarketing was a field that I
just fell into.
I didn't study it in college.
I've been a voracious readerand watcher of experts on the
topic over the past seven oreight years to really try to
learn as much as I can.
But that's not deep in my DNA.
(22:50):
Deep in my DNA is hiring greatpeople, trying to organize
processes and software to makepeople more efficient Now with
AI and automations.
Introduce these tools in waysthat make myself and my team
more efficient and moreeffective and, just like I said,
(23:10):
get out of my own way, becausethat tends to be the biggest
stumbling block for mostfounders.
Dr. William Attaway (23:16):
That is very, very true.
That's one thing I talk about alot is how, so often when I'm
working with clients, theproblem is nothing external.
The problem is between theirears, and getting out of their
own way is the thing that willenable them to move to the next
level.
So so true.
So, as you are learning andgrowing, you are encountering a
(23:41):
lot of different books, a lot ofdifferent podcasts.
Is there one that stands outthat you would say, hey, this
one's made a big difference inmy journey, that you'd recommend
to the leaders who arelistening?
Jake Sucoff (23:50):
This has probably been recommended on your show
before, but I was talking aboutit with a new friend who's a new
founder the other day.
The E-Myth is a book that reallytransformed the way that I
think about all of the things Iwas just talking about with
getting out of your own way,working on the business, not in
the business.
If you want to grow yourbusiness, you need to remove
(24:12):
yourself as the engineer andhire engineers and work as the
marketer and spokesperson and umall it's.
It was a profound read for me.
That really helped meunderstand what it takes to get
to the next level Podcast wise.
I mean, I have a lot.
(24:33):
I've recommended this a numberof times, but I really like Tim
Ferriss, not just because Ithink that he is a great
interviewer and not just greatbecause I think he gets really
profound insights from hisguests, but it's very accessible
.
I think he does so in a reallyrelatable way.
It's not overly heady.
I never feel like he is talkingdown to me and I love that the
(25:00):
breadth of his guests is so vast.
It's not just one type of guest, it's so many different types
of people and I feel like thatis really important.
You can really get a lot out ofdiverse perspectives.
Dr. William Attaway (25:13):
That's so good.
You know you are a growthpartner for your clients.
You help them think and look atthings a little bit differently
so that they can move into aseason of growth.
If we spun the table around forjust a minute and I could snap
(25:36):
my fingers and I could solve oneproblem right now in your
business.
What do you want that problemto be?
Jake Sucoff (25:40):
I am spending a huge amount of my time right now
hiring and, as I mentioned,this business is fairly new.
We launched in, I guess, julyor August of 2024.
I know it's probably the mostimportant thing I can do.
As I mentioned, an organizationis just it's people, and if you
(26:04):
want to have a greatorganization, you need great
people, and it's extremelyimportant to me to have a really
strong culture in addition tohaving really competent people,
and so I interview every singleperson and I follow up with them
, and if I am creating any kindof assessment or any kind of
project for them, I'm the onewho is creating it, I'm
(26:26):
reviewing it, I'm going over itwith them, and it is extremely
labor intensive.
So, if I could just snap myfingers and remove myself from
one area, it would be that.
However, I know that doing sowould likely dilute the quality
of the individuals who arecoming into the company.
So, um, that would be it,though.
(26:50):
The other one would be, if Icould, just not.
It's difficult to have difficultconversations with employees,
and it's something that I amgetting better at.
You know, I I am really focusedon.
I got introduced to radicalcandoror some years ago and, in
addition to that more recentlyintroduced to Radical Ownership,
(27:12):
and, I think, having the two ofthose combined, where I
consider every single mistakethat happens from one of my
employees my mistake, because Iwasn't clear enough, I didn't
give them the instructions thatthey needed to be successful, I
didn't create the right SOPs, Ididn't give them the software
they needed, whatever.
I think if you combine thatwith being radically honest with
(27:35):
people about what theirshortcomings are, not only are
you going to get the best out ofthem, they're really going to
appreciate what you're doing forthem, because the alternative
is you don't say anything andeither resentment grows or you
just end up they quit, or youfire them because they're not as
effective as you need them tobe.
(27:55):
And so I have found this to bereally transformative in how I
work with people.
I love that.
Dr. William Attaway (28:05):
Jake, this has been such a great
conversation and I'm so gratefulto you for sharing so honestly
and transparently from yourjourney so far.
I think you've really added alot of value to the people who
are listening today.
I know they're going to want tostay connected to you and
continue to learn from you andmore about what you're doing.
What's the best way for them todo that?
Jake Sucoff (28:27):
You can find me at patientprocurecom, or my
personal website is heyjakeycom.
You can shoot me an email atjake at patientprocurecom.
I love connecting with people.
I love getting messages, happyto provide any advice or a
(28:48):
shoulder to cry on or just acouple of listening ears.
I'm really good at that.
Dr. William Attaway (28:50):
So please feel free to reach out and we'll
have all those links in theshow notes.
Jake, thank you, appreciateyour time today and the value
that you have added to every oneof us.
Thanks, wayne, appreciate it.
I am thrilled today to have on the
podcast.
Jake is an entrepreneur,marketer and a four-time best
man.
He's the founder and CEO ofPatient Procure, a marketing
agency that specializes inhelping medical practices book
their ideal patients and keepthem coming back.
(00:21):
Patpro leverages exceptionalcontent, storytelling and
technology to create reliablepatient funnels so practitioners
can focus on what they do bestcaring for patients.
Jake's career spans 15 years ofbuilding and launching products
across diverse markets,including B2B, saas, enterprise
(00:44):
healthcare, a startup incubatorand loyalty rewards hardware.
He has spent these yearsworking directly with C-suite
executives, pitching inhigh-pressure environments and
using data to influencedecisions.
Jake's real passion is hisfamily, his friends and music.
He's constantly tinkering withautomation and AI these days so
(01:07):
he can spend less time in theoffice and more time with the
people he loves.
Jake, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Jake Sucoff (01:15):
Thank you for having me, William, and thank
you for that extensive intro.
If I knew you were going toread the whole thing, I would
have made it shorter.
Dr. William Attaway (01:23):
I want people to get a good sense of
who you are.
I don't even need to speak.
Jake Sucoff (01:27):
You got, everybody has it all that's.
That's my whole story.
Dr. William Attaway (01:30):
So, and yet , somehow I feel like there's
more, there's a bit more.
Intro / Outro (01:40):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the
podcast designed to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:57):
Well, let's start here.
I would love to start with you,Sharon, from your perspective,
a bit of your story,particularly around your journey
and your development as aleader.
How did this whole thing getstarted?
Jake Sucoff (02:11):
I feel like I've been a leader for a long time,
which now, in hindsight, maybeis easy to say, but at the time
didn't feel like it.
I started my career in assetmanagement.
I spent a bunch of yearsselling financial products,
which taught me a ton aboutsales, cold calling, interfacing
(02:33):
, client management, and fromthere I started my first company
, which was that mobile rewardsand mobile marketing company,
text Savvy, which was a greatexperience.
That was my first taste ofmanagement.
I had an intern who was theonly person that worked with me.
I was walking door to doortrying to sell this technology
(02:54):
and I put so much of myself intoit that I didn't leave enough
for the person who I wasmanaging.
They were totally ineffectiveand it was completely my fault.
And it was a great first tasteand understanding that if you
don't give the people who areworking for you the tools to be
successful, they never will be.
From there I went to WeWorkwhere I managed our incubator
(03:15):
program.
I did that for a number ofyears where I was an independent
contributor I didn't haveanybody working under me and
from there I went into theagency world and that's where
I've truly built out myleadership capabilities or been
able to experiment with growingthem.
I wouldn't say that I am afinished product as a leader,
(03:37):
but I'm working hard every dayto be the best boss and leader
than I can.
I try to lead by example.
I try to, as I mentioned before, give people the tools to be
successful, and I am extremelyfocused today especially because
I have such a distributed teamthat's all over the world with
putting together SOPs anddocumentation and making sure
(04:00):
that the people working for mehave really clear directives and
the software and support thatthey need to be successful, and
that is extremely top of mind tome every single day.
Dr. William Attaway (04:12):
So tell me about your agency.
What distinguishes you?
Jake Sucoff (04:15):
That's a great question because I don't want to
denigrate myself and myindustry, but the reality is I
think of myself kind of as anyother service leader today.
I know that there are many,many marketing agencies that
exist and it's almost become Idon't want to say fungible or
(04:40):
just completely, just completely.
There are some differentiators,but largely you're getting a
lot of the same servicesregardless of which agency
you're working with.
So I really try to stand out inthe way that most service
providers should by providing areally, really top-notch
experience, making sure mycommunication is on point.
(05:01):
I'm extremely transparent withwhat we do and I just try to
hire the best people so that wecan provide as good a service as
anybody else.
I think that there are ways thatyou can differentiate from
create content for people, torun ads for people, to write
(05:27):
blogs for people.
They're largely the same toolsthat everybody has, so I have a
keen attention to detail.
I make sure that every piece ofcontent, everything that we
create, is an extremely highquality, but I wouldn't say that
I am producing something thatis novel compared to my
competitors.
But I do think that focusing onhealthcare allows me to get
(05:48):
lots of case studies and lots ofexperience working within the
industry, which is what myclients really are hoping for
when they work with me.
Dr. William Attaway (05:55):
You know, when healthcare practices think
about marketing, there's a lotof different perspectives and
opinions on this.
Some shy away from it.
Some wonder, like, should weeven have to do that?
Like this is something thateverybody really needs.
At some point they don't evenknow where to start or what
platform to focus on.
Where do you begin when you'retalking to somebody coming from
(06:18):
one of those perspectives?
Jake Sucoff (06:19):
I like to start with the physician's passion,
and that is often almost alwaysaround the particular specialty
that they have.
It's the reason they got intomedicine.
It's the reason that they areputting in many, many, many
hours every week, in excess ofwhat they need to, to make sure
that they are getting thediagnosis right, they're putting
(06:40):
together treatment plans andthey're making sure patients get
the care that they need.
So I start with that personalconnection to help the physician
better articulate who they are,what their specialty is and why
they do what they do.
Ultimately, patients are goingto connect with their physicians
because they feel like they'regoing to provide an outsized
(07:01):
quality of care to them, andthat comes from feeling like
they actually care.
It's in the word, right there.
So, beginning with what's thespecialty, why are they
specifically interested in itand why are they better
qualified to treat this patientthan any other physician, is the
best place to start.
Every physician, every practice, is going to have their own
(07:23):
communication style.
They're going to have their owncommunication style.
They're going to have their ownprocess, their way of
delivering care.
Those specifics can be dialedin as we work through messaging
strategy, but we like to startwith just talk about why you
care, because that's always areally great way to connect with
patients at the top of thefunnel.
(07:47):
So it feels a little bit like apersonal branding thing for the
physician then yeah, it's reallyinteresting because marketing
today, first of all, I believethat every single entity,
regardless what you do, needs tohave some kind of media aspect
to it.
If you're selling socks andthat's not to say you need to
take a stand against socialissues I think that, back to
(08:10):
this example about socks ifyou're buying socks, I don't
think they need to know who youvoted for, I don't think they
need to know your stance onhotly contested social issues,
but I do think that you need tohave a presence and connect with
your audience around whatthey're interested in Cozy feet,
but probably more specifically,are you hiking?
(08:33):
Is it for runners?
What's the landscape that yourideal customers are interested
in?
But In addition to that, thereis this growing movement of
founder-led brands, where peoplemore and more trust large
companies less and less, butthey trust individuals more and
(08:53):
more, and so you can probablyhave more success marketing
yourself and your personal brandthan you will marketing your
company.
It's no different regardlesswhether or not you are a
concierge doctor and you areseeing patients.
You don't take insurance, it'sjust your face all the way up to
if you are working at ahospital and you want to connect
(09:17):
with people, just to grow trustand have them understand who
are the physicians who arecarrying out these procedures.
It is more and more importantfor physicians to have their own
personal brand and, honestly,these days the lines have
blurred between personal andprofessional.
I think that people have becomemore comfortable with bringing
(09:38):
themselves to their work and so,through that, it becomes this
okay.
Of course, they need to knowwhat are your credentials, they
need to understand that you havethis expertise, but they also
want to know who you are and seeyour family and understand what
books you read.
And, again, to connect withpatients on a deeper level, you
need to open yourself up alittle bit and introduce more of
(10:01):
yourself than maybe you neededto in the past.
Dr. William Attaway (10:05):
You know, I think when you think about
marketing, there's so manydifferent options.
There's so many differentplaces you can be and go, so
many different platforms.
Like where do you start?
Is there one platform that youshould really focus on?
That's the best.
Where do you counsel yourclients to start?
Jake Sucoff (10:28):
Yeah, it really depends on your goals and, of
course, depending on whetheryou're trying to meet people for
the first time versus convincesomebody who's engaged with you
or your brand a few times, adifferent channel might be
appropriate over another.
What I think is reallyimportant today is the ability
(10:48):
to repurpose content, dependingon what that goal is.
It's never been easier to takea video of yourself.
Take the transcript, turn thatinto a blog post, take short
form video, put that ontoYouTube shorts or Instagram or
TikTok, or even LinkedIn hasvideo.
Now, if you're going to bespeaking to your colleagues, if
(11:10):
you're trying to get speakingengagements, if you're trying to
connect on a professional level, linkedin is going to be a
better option.
But if you want to connect withpatients, depending on what
your specialty is, you probablyare going to have a better
chance at that on Instagram oron TikTok.
But you also have to rememberthat, depending on the platform
(11:30):
you're on, there's going to be alot of competition that you're
up against, unless you're doingsome kind of viral chiropractic
service where you're recordingthe clicks and the pops from the
person, you're adjusting, oryou know.
This type of content isn't forme but the pimple popping and
(11:51):
the more graphic stuff.
I mean that has a decent shotat going viral and competing
with cat videos, but most of thephysicians I work with are not
producing content that has thatviral factor.
So we really focus on where dowe think that your target
patients are hanging out, andlet's meet them with the
(12:11):
information that they needacross the entire funnel to A
learn about the condition thatthey have.
If maybe they don't have a fullunderstanding of it yet, then
learn about your unique way thatyou treat it and then maybe get
an introduction to yourpractice and then finally, you
know, have some calls to actionwhere you are helping people.
Put all of this together andthen book an appointment with
(12:32):
you.
I didn't really answer yourquestion there.
The reality is you don'tnecessarily have to choose only
one platform and, yes, it iseasy to get paralyzed by choice.
There are so many differentareas you can start.
I try to think deeply aboutwhat's your goal and then work
backwards from that.
If it's to engage with yourexisting patients and get them
(12:54):
coming back, email is probablythe best platform for you and
that's the one that, betweenthat and SEO, I think those are
the ones that have the greatestROI, especially when compared to
how little they're used, whencompared to paid ads and organic
social media.
I think that if you really dialin your SEO and your email
strategy, you're going toespecially after some time.
(13:17):
It does take some time to seethe fruits of your labor, but
that's going to be probably oneof the better investments you
can do.
Dr. William Attaway (13:24):
I think email and SEO makes sense.
I totally get that.
I think there's a reticence,particularly in healthcare,
around social media, you know,and really diving into what so
is crowded, to be sure, but also, gosh, is that really where I
want to be putting my business?
And I love what you said just asecond ago, because that's
(13:47):
really where your clients areand where potential clients are.
They are on social media.
You're simply going to wherethey already live and spend so
much of their time.
You know it's easy to forgetthat.
Jake Sucoff (14:01):
You know, as a business owner, even in the
healthcare field, I think andgoing back to the goal of the
strategy that you'reimplementing, I would caution I
do caution my clients and Iwould caution any other
physicians who are consideringsocial media.
Unless you do have thatextremely viral service that
you're offering, I would notthink about organic social media
(14:25):
.
Even if you do have somethingviral that you're offering, I
wouldn't think about it in termsof an acquisition strategy.
I would think about it more interms of growing your brand and
helping to grow trust and makeconnection with your target
patients.
If you're running meta ads,you're going to want to have a
really strong presence, becausethe first thing somebody is
(14:46):
going to do if they click on oneof your ads is go to your
profile and look at it.
But think of all of thedifferent potential channels and
platforms as different touchpoints.
You need to be doing anintegrative strategy.
There is some wisdom in sayingpick one platform, become an
expert at it, just keep doingthat until you feel like you've
(15:10):
reached your absolute potential.
But you don't really need tochoose anymore, especially if
you have somebody who's helpingyou manage this.
As I mentioned before, you cancreate one video, a five minute
video of yourself not even fiveis a long time.
A two minute video of yourselfthat can live on YouTube.
You can put the shorts on allof the places I mentioned.
You can get the transcript.
You can put those on to all ofthe other platforms I mentioned.
(15:33):
So you don't really need tochoose, and in fact, in some
cases you might not have anyunderstanding about where your
target audience is actuallyspending most of their time.
So by testing a lot of them atonce, you might give yourself an
opportunity to actually seewhich one deserves an outsized
amount of your attention.
Dr. William Attaway (15:52):
That's really good.
So many practices are justbecoming pervasive to leverage
email and we've touched on thata little bit but also text
messages, and this is becomingmore and more common.
Do patients really want to getall those emails and text
messages, because I mean, I geta lot of both.
(16:12):
Is that really something thatpractitioners need to think
about and physicians need tothink about, if they're not
already doing it?
Jake Sucoff (16:20):
You definitely need to think about it.
The short answer is yes.
If you look at the data, smsmessages and emails still work
and they work extremely well.
I am of the same mind ofanybody who says I am inundated
with texts and emails at thispoint and I can't take any more.
(16:41):
I feel that way and at the sametime, I know what the data is
telling me from the platformsthat I'm running campaigns on
that they do work.
So I think there's a way to doit tastefully and candidly.
If your patient doesn't wannareceive the message I don't
think them getting, it is goingto convert them from a patient
to not a patient.
(17:01):
They'll unsubscribe if theywanna unsubscribe, and that's
totally okay.
But you're probably gonna get alot greater benefit than you
are detriment if you're managingcampaigns on these channels and
it's absolutely worth.
You know email in particular itis SMS actually falls into this
category as well.
(17:22):
Of all of the marketingchannels, these are the two that
you can truly own the rails ofcommunication.
If you're putting a lot ofdollars into Facebook ads or
meta ads and any pay-per-click,the social media companies are
100% responsible for targetingyour ads to the people who they
(17:46):
deem should receive them If theychange their algorithm.
If something's happening duringthe election cycle there's lots
of ads coming in During theholidays, there's ebbs and flows
.
There are things outside ofyour control that are going to
affect your reach and are goingto affect the money that you're
putting into these channels.
That doesn't happen with emailand it doesn't happen with SMS.
(18:08):
You have a direct line to yourpatient.
You can get in touch with themwhen you send the message, and
that's extremely powerful, andas long as you're not taking
advantage of that trust andinundating them with messages,
and as long as you're doing soin an authentic way that speaks
to the true character of yourpractice, I don't think anybody
should worry about upsettingtheir patients.
Dr. William Attaway (18:29):
I think that's a really good thing for
people to hear, because theydon't want to run people off,
and so often there is thisfeeling that hey, I'm just going
to bug people, I'm just goingto bother them, and I love that
you're coming at this from adata perspective.
I think databasedecision-making is critical,
particularly when we're talkingabout running a business, and I
(18:49):
love that you bring that intothe conversation.
Jake Sucoff (18:52):
People are fickle.
I mean I, day to day, sometimesI get an email from my
healthcare provider and I'm justlike oh, another one, and I
delete it.
Sometimes that's happened wheremy first reaction is like oh,
and then I click on it and thenI think, oh, I do need to book
another appointment, and then Ido it.
So, like you, know, it worksand people's.
(19:13):
You know moods change with thewind, so you can't, unless you
are being really scammy andspending lots, sending lots and
lots of these messages.
Um, this is the the age that welive in.
If people want to hear yourmessage, then they're going to
appreciate getting a messagefrom you, and if they don't want
(19:34):
to hear it, then great, They'llself-select, they'll
unsubscribe, and then they won'tbe bothered anymore and that's
totally fine.
Dr. William Attaway (19:43):
Well said, jake.
Let me ask you this so yourbusiness needs you to lead at a
higher level today than it didjust a year or two ago, and that
same thing is going to be truea year, two years, five years
from now.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
(20:06):
team and your clients are goingto need you to have in the years
to come?
Jake Sucoff (20:10):
I love podcasts and interviews, and I love
listening to leaders from allwalks of life talking about how
they lead their journeys.
I think for me, I'm doing a lotof work on myself, on my ego,
(20:37):
and trying to be more humble andtrying to tell myself that I am
immensely, immensely lucky tobe able to do what I'm doing.
And when I wake up in themorning and I feel overly
stressed and I feel like I wantto take it out on my wife and my
children and my friends and myparents and I'm a ball of just
(21:00):
negative energy, I really try tosit down and breathe and tell
myself this is a privilege.
I had a client.
She was the CEO of amulti-state operator.
There was probably I don't know14 or so brands in the roll-up,
about 60 to 70 individualpractices all across the US, and
she used to say that and Iloved it and I've adopted that
(21:23):
as my own motto the pressure isa privilege, because it's so
true, very few people get theopportunity to do this, and so I
try to stay humble.
I try to understand that ortell myself daily that if I
don't get out of my own way, ifI don't remove myself as a
roadblock, if I don't removemyself as the bottleneck, the
company will never be assuccessful as it could be.
(21:44):
So, trying to get better atdelegating understanding that I
hire people for their expertise,not to tell them what to do, I
hire them to listen to them.
I hire them so that they'lltell me what to do and that's
been a big unlock of mine overthe past eight months as I've
run this company is to reallyunderstand that it's not about
(22:06):
me.
I am trying to find people whoare better than me to do the
jobs that I'm doing so that,first of all, I can remove
myself from the day-to-day so Ican focus on scaling the
business and interfacing withclients and making sure that
everything is operating smoothly, and also because it's going to
make our work significantlybetter.
(22:27):
I am, at my heart, I'm anoperator.
I'm a salesperson as well, butmarketing was a field that I
just fell into.
I didn't study it in college.
I've been a voracious readerand watcher of experts on the
topic over the past seven oreight years to really try to
learn as much as I can.
But that's not deep in my DNA.
(22:50):
Deep in my DNA is hiring greatpeople, trying to organize
processes and software to makepeople more efficient Now with
AI and automations.
Introduce these tools in waysthat make myself and my team
more efficient and moreeffective and, just like I said,
(23:10):
get out of my own way, becausethat tends to be the biggest
stumbling block for mostfounders.
Dr. William Attaway (23:16):
That is very, very true.
That's one thing I talk about alot is how, so often when I'm
working with clients, theproblem is nothing external.
The problem is between theirears, and getting out of their
own way is the thing that willenable them to move to the next
level.
So so true.
So, as you are learning andgrowing, you are encountering a
(23:41):
lot of different books, a lot ofdifferent podcasts.
Is there one that stands outthat you would say, hey, this
one's made a big difference inmy journey, that you'd recommend
to the leaders who arelistening?
Jake Sucoff (23:50):
This has probably been recommended on your show
before, but I was talking aboutit with a new friend who's a new
founder the other day.
The E-Myth is a book that reallytransformed the way that I
think about all of the things Iwas just talking about with
getting out of your own way,working on the business, not in
the business.
If you want to grow yourbusiness, you need to remove
(24:12):
yourself as the engineer andhire engineers and work as the
marketer and spokesperson and umall it's.
It was a profound read for me.
That really helped meunderstand what it takes to get
to the next level Podcast wise.
I mean, I have a lot.
(24:33):
I've recommended this a numberof times, but I really like Tim
Ferriss, not just because Ithink that he is a great
interviewer and not just greatbecause I think he gets really
profound insights from hisguests, but it's very accessible
.
I think he does so in a reallyrelatable way.
It's not overly heady.
I never feel like he is talkingdown to me and I love that the
(25:00):
breadth of his guests is so vast.
It's not just one type of guest, it's so many different types
of people and I feel like thatis really important.
You can really get a lot out ofdiverse perspectives.
Dr. William Attaway (25:13):
That's so good.
You know you are a growthpartner for your clients.
You help them think and look atthings a little bit differently
so that they can move into aseason of growth.
If we spun the table around forjust a minute and I could snap
(25:36):
my fingers and I could solve oneproblem right now in your
business.
What do you want that problemto be?
Jake Sucoff (25:40):
I am spending a huge amount of my time right now
hiring and, as I mentioned,this business is fairly new.
We launched in, I guess, julyor August of 2024.
I know it's probably the mostimportant thing I can do.
As I mentioned, an organizationis just it's people, and if you
(26:04):
want to have a greatorganization, you need great
people, and it's extremelyimportant to me to have a really
strong culture in addition tohaving really competent people,
and so I interview every singleperson and I follow up with them
, and if I am creating any kindof assessment or any kind of
project for them, I'm the onewho is creating it, I'm
(26:26):
reviewing it, I'm going over itwith them, and it is extremely
labor intensive.
So, if I could just snap myfingers and remove myself from
one area, it would be that.
However, I know that doing sowould likely dilute the quality
of the individuals who arecoming into the company.
So, um, that would be it,though.
(26:50):
The other one would be, if Icould, just not.
It's difficult to have difficultconversations with employees,
and it's something that I amgetting better at.
You know, I I am really focusedon.
I got introduced to radicalcandoror some years ago and, in
addition to that more recentlyintroduced to Radical Ownership,
(27:12):
and, I think, having the two ofthose combined, where I
consider every single mistakethat happens from one of my
employees my mistake, because Iwasn't clear enough, I didn't
give them the instructions thatthey needed to be successful, I
didn't create the right SOPs, Ididn't give them the software
they needed, whatever.
I think if you combine thatwith being radically honest with
(27:35):
people about what theirshortcomings are, not only are
you going to get the best out ofthem, they're really going to
appreciate what you're doing forthem, because the alternative
is you don't say anything andeither resentment grows or you
just end up they quit, or youfire them because they're not as
effective as you need them tobe.
(27:55):
And so I have found this to bereally transformative in how I
work with people.
I love that.
Dr. William Attaway (28:05):
Jake, this has been such a great
conversation and I'm so gratefulto you for sharing so honestly
and transparently from yourjourney so far.
I think you've really added alot of value to the people who
are listening today.
I know they're going to want tostay connected to you and
continue to learn from you andmore about what you're doing.
What's the best way for them todo that?
Jake Sucoff (28:27):
You can find me at patientprocurecom, or my
personal website is heyjakeycom.
You can shoot me an email atjake at patientprocurecom.
I love connecting with people.
I love getting messages, happyto provide any advice or a
(28:48):
shoulder to cry on or just acouple of listening ears.
I'm really good at that.
Dr. William Attaway (28:50):
So please feel free to reach out and we'll
have all those links in theshow notes.
Jake, thank you, appreciateyour time today and the value
that you have added to every oneof us.
Thanks, wayne, appreciate it.
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