Scaling a digital agency doesn't require hustle—it requires systems, delegation, and intentional leadership. In this episode, I sit down with Jesse Gilmore, founder of Niche In Control and author of The Agency Owner's Guide to Freedom, to unpack how one agency owner scaled from $15K to $100K MRR in just 9 months using Jesse’s Leverage for Growth Framework. We walk through how time audits unlock 8–10 hours per week, how to implement scalable delegation systems, and how simplifying your offer can create not just growth, but freedom.
This conversation is built around a repeatable growth framework for agencies—designed to help you shift from bottleneck to CEO, install team-driven operations, and build a business that can grow and thrive without being dependent on you. If you’re leading a digital agency and ready to scale with strategy, not just hustle, you’ll want to take notes.
Books Mentioned:
The Agency Owner’s Guide to Freedom by Jesse Gilmore
Connect with Jesse Gilmore
Learn more about Jesse’s Leverage for Growth method and download free resources for scaling your agency at nicheincontrol.com. You can also tune in to his podcast, Leverage for Growth, for weekly strategies on leadership, systems, and sustainable agency growth.
🌟 Check out our podcast sponsor, Competitive Edge Business Consulting, and book your free discovery call with them today at www.CompEdgeConsulting.com 🌟
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
- Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:
Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. William Attaway (00:00):
It is such an honor today to have Jesse
Gilmore on the podcast.
Jesse is the founder and CEO ofNiche in Control.
He helps digital marketingagency owners escape the chaos
of daily operations and build abusiness that scales without
them, so they can finally stepinto the CEO role that they were
meant for.
(00:20):
Before starting Niche inControl, he dissolved three of
his own businesses.
He was working 60 to 80-hourweeks, completely burnt out and
stuck in the same trap that henow helps his clients to escape.
It wasn't until he spent fiveyears in corporate America
leading over 100 projects andbuilding systems that supported
(00:41):
$180 million acquisition that herealized the missing piece
systems, leverage andself-leadership.
Since launching Nation Control,he has helped over 90 agency
owners to double their revenue,build self-sufficient teams and
create predictable growthwithout sacrificing their time,
(01:03):
their family or their freedom.
His framework, the Leverage forGrowth Method, combines
scalable systems, teamempowerment and consistent lead
generation to help agency ownersstop being the bottleneck and
start leading a thrivingbusiness.
He's also the author of theAgency Owner's Guide to Freedom
(01:26):
and host of the Leverage forGrowth podcast, where he reverse
engineers agency successstories to help others grow with
intention.
His mission is simple helpagency owners reclaim their time
, increase their impact andfinally build a business that
works without them.
(01:46):
Jesse, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Jesse Gilmore (01:49):
Yeah, thanks a lot for having me, and that was
an awesome introduction, so Iappreciate it.
Dr. William Attaway (01:57):
I've been looking forward to this
conversation.
Jesse, this is going to be alot of fun.
Intro / Outro (02:03):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the
podcast designed to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (02:20):
I would love to start with you sharing
some of your story with ourlisteners.
I hit some of the high points,but I would love to hear
particularly around your journeyand your development as a
leader.
How did you get started?
Jesse Gilmore (02:40):
business with my brother, jeremy, and in my first
businesses I was kind of like astudent.
I didn't really know much aboutbusiness.
I didn't go to school forbusiness at the way beginning
and the humble beginnings camefrom doing door-to-door sales
and working with business owners.
And one of the common thingsthat I kept on asking every
(03:00):
business owner was what's theticket to a long-lasting,
sustainable business?
And I took a lot of notes inthe way beginning and it became
like 17 journals of the 80 pagenotes, or 80 page journals
filled with notes of the answers, and I thought that that I had
captured everything and I did myhomework.
(03:20):
So when I started my business,a lot of it was based around
what I had been told asuccessful business was going to
require.
And over a period of time inthose first businesses I just
kind of got stuck.
I didn't really understandsystems.
No one that I asked for saidbuild some systems and this is
(03:41):
how you do it, some systems andthis is how you do it.
And so I kind of found itthrough like the hard knock life
you know of.
You know trying to take allthis information about business
and success and and apply it,and I kind of just got to a
place where it was kind of likethis hamster wheel the more work
(04:02):
that I did, the more success Ilooked like I was having, but on
the inside I was kind of dying.
And I think leadership reallycame from an understanding that
I had to lead myself and througheven challenges in my first
three businesses and dissolvingthem and if you ever want to
hear about my backstory, you canfollow me on LinkedIn or read
(04:22):
my book or something.
But those humble beginningstaught me the importance of
leadership, and leadership comesfrom an understanding of that.
You are kind of like called orpulled towards something that's
bigger than where you arecurrently Right.
Yes, and I think that one ofthe greatest things I ever
learned from myself was to beable to lead myself and have a
(04:47):
vision and be able to get pulledtowards something.
And we'll probably talk aboutvision and leadership.
But I think I had very humblebeginnings.
I started to get glimpses ofwhat leadership could be, and it
wasn't until I was working withVPs of a $4 billion global
corporation that I startedunderstanding what separated
good leaders from leaders thatare just kind of like leadership
(05:10):
as a title but not reallyleading, and then which ones
actually had like a vision andwhich ones didn't, and then how
that actually started leadingtowards what I do with niching
control and actually pullingsome of that leadership out of
my clients.
Dr. William Attaway (05:23):
You know, I often say that you're the
hardest person that you're evergoing to lead, and so much of
what I hear in your story isthat realization, that growth,
understanding that and how tolead yourself well.
Where did that start for you?
Where did you begin to developthat muscle, that skill of
(05:44):
leading yourself well?
Jesse Gilmore (05:46):
Sure, so I've been.
I'm kind of a hoarder of acouple of things.
One of the things is actuallyjust documenting my experience
and I think that just the act ofjournaling I've been doing
since about 16 or 17, and I'llturn 40 at the end of this year,
so a long time journaling.
(06:07):
And I think that leadershipcomes in understanding how to
lead yourself, actually comesfrom understanding that you are
on a journey, right, and youdidn't just happen to be here.
They're like there's somethingthat has led to this certain
point in your life.
You, listening to this podcastwith me and William, you know
something has led you to thismoment.
(06:29):
And when you can look backwardsand start measuring not
necessarily like from where youare to where you wanna be, but
from where you were before andwhere you got now, and measuring
that progress, you start tounderstand that when there's
pieces of a puzzle that arebeing put together and sometimes
you don't actually know whereit's going Sometimes you do and
(06:52):
sometimes you don't and I thinkthat the leadership piece comes
from understanding that you'reon a journey and you're going
somewhere.
And I think that once you startunderstanding where you're
going somewhere, I thinkjournaling is a big kind of
proponent, at least for mejournaling, meditating, asking a
question to the universe or God, and then just sitting and
(07:13):
waiting for an answer, like itkind of like.
A lot of people are not likedoing that and they probably
should, but that triggers theleadership.
You have to have somethingthat's pulling you.
You can't be pushed intoleadership, you have to pull.
So that's probably a wholetopic right there.
Dr. William Attaway (07:29):
But yeah, I mean I love the reflective
aspect of journaling.
I think that that's aphenomenal exercise for us all
and when you do it like you andI do like you see the value of
it because it forces evaluation.
I'm a big proponent and teacherthat experience is not what
makes you better, evaluatedexperience is what makes you
(07:51):
better.
And I think journaling is atool to help with that
reflection, because as you'reevaluating, as I'm journaling,
I'm thinking like, okay, whatcan I celebrate?
What are the wins?
Where did I swing and miss youknow what?
Would I do different next timein a similar situation?
So you're processing thatlearning For you, that process
of evaluation and reflectionthrough journaling.
(08:14):
What are some ways that you'veseen that bear fruit in future
situations that you went throughand did that process?
And then the next time you werethere, what does that look like
for you?
Jesse Gilmore (08:25):
Yeah, yeah, I think one of the greatest things
that you can do with thejournaling.
So sometimes when I sayjournaling, people are like what
am I supposed to write, right?
Or they buy a journalingnotebook and then they're like
there's a bunch of prompts.
I think there's a couple ofkind of like even just
structured journaling that canget to what I'm about to answer
(08:46):
your question with.
One of them is something assimple as a plan tomorrow, today
, where at the end of the day,you're looking back and you're
saying what are the top threeaccomplishments of today and
then what are the top threeaccomplishments that will happen
tomorrow, right?
So a lot of people talk aboutto-do lists and stuff like that
and that's not really asbeneficial as something that's
(09:07):
like highly prioritized, right.
And if you do something like aplan tomorrow, today, but you do
it on a weekly basis or amonthly basis and instead of
looking at the day, you'relooking at a week or a month or
a quarter or even a year, thatone process works really well.
(09:35):
So the reason why I wanted togive that frame is because that
one simple activity I've beendoing for about six years and
just looking at what happenedyesterday and what am I kind of
learning from are certain timesin my life where I have
something that happens right InFebruary my father died, so I
was looking back on likechildhood and journals about
that right.
And then other times we hitcertain milestones where our
team grew to 11, you know andbefore I had a vision of a team
(09:57):
of 11, you know, you look backand you start seeing that
there's little glimpses of whatthe future is going to be if you
continue on a certain track,and those kinds of scenarios
allow journaling to kind of belike the breadcrumbs, and that
evaluated experience that youwere talking about just a second
(10:17):
ago is beautifully capturingwhat I'm talking about right now
, where you're looking back andyou're starting to see I had a
vision for something that wasn'tthere yet.
I was being pulled towards itand now I have experienced that
and I don't know if I trulyanswered your question, but I
think those concepts of beingable to look at it kind of lead
(10:38):
towards it.
Dr. William Attaway (10:40):
Well, I think that framing is really
helpful because I hear the samething that you just described.
You know why would I start, howdo I do this?
Like really helpful because Ihear the same thing that you
just described.
You know where do I start, howdo I do this?
Like, what am I supposed towrite down?
And I think having some framing, especially at the beginning,
is incredibly helpful.
So, thinking through your storyand some of the highlights I
read and some of what you shared, this is the question that I
can't wait to hear the answer to.
(11:00):
Why digital marketing agencies?
Everybody asked me that question, I mean just looking at your
experience it's broad, it'svaried, it's wide.
Jesse Gilmore (11:22):
Why digital marketing agencies?
And I'll answer of unpack that.
So when I looked at, I actuallycreated the company called
Niche in Control before I evenhad a niche.
So in the first year or so mywebsite you guys probably would
laugh at is just like coachingand consulting to grow your
(11:44):
business.
It's like the most like genericthing ever on a
nichingcontrolcom website.
But anyway, so I didn't reallyknow.
And in the way beginning Iactually built Niche and Control
on the side because during thatbusiness acquisition I wasn't
too sure what was going tohappen with corporate and I was
like I'm kind of stumbling uponsomething that allows me to tap
(12:06):
into something that doesn't havereally limits.
Right, when you're an employeeyou have limits to certain
things.
Right, when you're an employerand an entrepreneur, you have a
little bit more options.
So in the way beginning Istarted working with any clients
that really would pay me.
So I had a B2C SaaS company andpretty early I was like, oh,
(12:35):
I'm really good at projectmanagement and it seems like
they don't really have goodsystems, so I'm going to help
them with some systems.
And then the next client waslike a copywriter and I was like
, oh man, if you just move somethings around.
Instead of it taking you threeweeks, it's going to take you
four days.
And they're like, holy crap, Iincreased my capacity.
I'm like, oh yeah, cool.
And then I, by the grace of God,I got connected with a digital
(12:58):
marketing agency and I startedworking with Warren and he was
one of the first ones that Ijust went all in with, where the
previous ones were kind of onthe side and I was kind of
seeing what it was.
When I worked with Warren, Iwas just like all right, we're
going to meet on a weekly basisand we're going to be
implementing this very specificstrategy and I can talk more
about the strategy later.
(13:19):
But the most important thingwas I started working with him.
And the most important thingwas I started working with him
and once we started to unpackwhat I called leverage for
growth, which is our method, andI started to apply it to his
business, it was likeastronomical how much of a big
difference it actually was to beimplementing a proven system.
And the proven system wasliterally what did I learn in
(13:39):
corporate that I didn't learnbefore?
And what did I if I was toteach somebody like how to build
systems and make the businessnot rely upon them.
If I was able to do that early,what would be the effect?
And Warren was like the firstone that actually went through
the process.
He went from 15,000 to 100,009months while reducing his
workload.
Wow, it was like what the heck?
(14:02):
And he even talks about it.
He's like I had three peopleand now I have eight full-time
employees and six contractors.
I was like wow, that's crazy.
Um, and once I started torealize that it worked and I can
talk more about why it workedand it wasn't always based
around the method.
Actually, there's uh kind of asynergy between someone who
knows about marketing andsomeone knows about systems and
(14:24):
like the yin and the yanghappening.
But what we did was I took thatfirst version of the program
that I was applying towardsWarren and I figured out what
worked and what didn't, got ridof what didn't, did more of it
worked.
I became version two.
Then I went through a wholenother year did that with other
agencies and I started realizingthat certain agencies were
(14:44):
getting better results.
Susan doubled her business insix months and then got acquired
in 18 and says like everythinghad changed when she started
working with me and it's notabout me.
It's more based around justlike the right fit, and the
right fit kept on happening withagencies, and I can talk more
about that from like a like, alike either, a qualitative kind
(15:06):
of side of things, where peopleare more creative and then they
get a left brain systems person,and that seems to work really
well.
If people are familiar with theEOS method, it's EOS is not.
It's too complex for like a sixfigure agency.
There's too many things goingunless you have a bigger team.
But, like we kind of do an EOSlight right.
(15:28):
So, um, there's a lot ofdifferent reasons on why it
actually works, but we've nowgone through six versions of
what I was just talking about,where you apply version 2.0 and
then you take what works and getrid of what doesn't, and we've
built so many different feedbackcycles that make it so it just
keeps on becoming more of aproven process.
Dr. William Attaway (15:50):
So, yeah, I read earlier that you have
helped over 90 agency ownersthrough this process.
That's a lot Like what is your.
You mentioned Warren.
What are some other stories ofpeople that you have helped
navigate this difficult thing ofgrowing and scaling without
(16:11):
running yourself into the ground?
Jesse Gilmore (16:13):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Susan was one of the secondones that went through a massive
transformation.
So Susan was a full-servicecreative agency owner and she
very specifically worked witharchitectural product-based
companies and helping with themcreative and already had kind of
(16:34):
like the niche figured out.
And when I was working with her, and actually when I talked
with her, she's like I've beentrying to grow this business for
over 20 years.
I've hired people like David CBaker and like everybody else
that's kind of like known in theagency space and she's like
they're really like helpful.
They got us to be able to be anauthority in the place.
But every time that they talkabout scale it's too conceptual
(16:58):
and I've tried so many differentthings.
I'm just kind of stuck and Ifeel as though I'm spinning my
wheels.
She was one that just kept onsaying spinning my wheels,
reinventing the wheels, like thesame thing over and over again.
And she goes I'm to the pointwhere, if I don't fix this, I'm
so sick of spinning my wheelsthat I'm going to shut it down
within six months.
And unless you can help me getthere, I was like I'm down for
(17:25):
it and she's like all right,you're very confident.
I'm like yeah, you just got todo these certain things, and
she's like all right, let's doit.
And not only did she double insix months, but she got it to
where it wasn't relying upon her, and that is an astronomical
change.
She actually wrote the forwardin the book and for anybody
(17:47):
that's listening or watching,I'll give William the link to
either the audio book or giveyou a copy of it.
But in the forward she'sliterally talking about this I'm
going to give Jesse six monthsto turn my business around.
I'm going to shut it down aboutthis.
I'm going to give Jesse sixmonths to turn my business
around.
I'm going to shut it down to aplace where, um, at the end of
the six months, she's like Iasked her.
I was like so are you going tocontinue or what's going on?
(18:10):
She's like hell, yeah, I'mgoing to continue.
She's like this is so much fun,like the team is excited about
the work and like we cut out arandom stuff and like it's, it's
kind of crazy.
So, and then, in 18 months fromwhen we started, she actually
got acquired by a pr firm thatwas a little bit bigger in the
same exact space, and so thenthey have the pr and the
(18:32):
creative together and she talksabout one of the biggest changes
was not necessarily like thescale everybody bleeds with,
like revenue, but it was likewho I became in the process was
different and who the a likewhat the agency became.
She's like if we would havebeen approached by that pr firm,
you know, maybe 18 monthsearlier, it would not have been
(18:56):
like attractive to them, right,and there wouldn't be an
acquisition.
But what happened was it madeit to where it was a sellable
asset, you know.
And so, yeah, there's probablyso much to unpack and I know you
asked for a couple of differentcase studies, but Susan is one
that if you watch hertestimonial, it's like 14
minutes on her on YouTube.
(19:17):
She goes through literally stepby step at this certain time,
this is what we did, and thenthis is a certain time, this is
what we did, and then thiscertain time, this is what we
did.
And then she talks about thewhole entire thing was mindset
as like system's cool, it's justmindset.
How are you seeing it?
And I think that brings us backto our conversation about
leadership, because mindset andleadership go hand in hand
(19:39):
Vision and acquisition andgrowth and everything that an
agency owner is trying toaccomplish.
Going from the doer to the CEOcomes down to how you're viewing
things and what's going on inthat mind.
Dr. William Attaway (19:51):
So well said.
I often equate this to being atthe center of the spider web.
When an agency owner is in thatspot and everything connects to
you, that's not a sellableasset, right?
Because you rip you out, thewhole thing falls apart.
What you're describing isbuilding something that is
sellable, that will scale, thatis actually operating at a
(20:13):
healthy and sustainable pace forthe long haul.
So talk about the strategy, theframework that you encourage
and teach in your mastermind.
Jesse Gilmore (20:25):
Absolutely yeah.
So we have an inside-outapproach to growth.
So typically, what people do ina lot of agency growth programs
, there's nothing wrong withother programs, it's just
different ways of doing things.
A lot of other programs focuson sales and then they focus on
pipeline and then they kind ofwork their way from an external
focus and then they build thebusiness around that external
(20:48):
part.
Now for us, we do way more ofan internal was talking about in
my previous businesses working68 hour weeks and everything's
dependent on them and if youdon't work, work doesn't get
done.
The issue has nothing to do withnew business.
(21:08):
It has everything to do withtime use.
Productivity systems offers,right, so foundational stuff
that sets up for everything else.
So in the leverage for growthmethod and we've revised it one
more time, right, but we'll keepit really simple.
There's five main steps to theprocess and before we jump into
(21:32):
everything, we just start withtime time use.
We have every single client gothrough a time log.
It's like the first seven days.
You just log your time for halfan hour every single day for
seven days.
Personal, professional, includesleep, include scrolling on
social media, include watchingbinge, watching Netflix,
whatever it is.
(21:53):
Capture it.
Okay, and from that time log,there are four things that you
can do with that, uh, thatoutput.
You can figure out what you caneliminate.
So what are you doing right now?
You can just get rid of, andthen, if you can do with that,
uh, that output, you can figureout what you can eliminate.
So what are you doing right now?
You can just get rid of, andthen, if you can't get rid of it
, can you automate it?
Is it something that'spredictable?
Data transfers should never bedone by a human.
(22:13):
That was one thing I just said.
In a linked automation, then, ifyou can't eliminate it,
automate it.
Can you delegate?
Can you give it to somebodyelse?
Right, and it's low risk, lowvalue tasks, right, and then, if
(22:36):
you can't do those three, thenwhat's left over?
You need to time block.
Now, time blocking.
People always talk like, oh,I'm just going to put one hour
on here, I'm going to do this.
The most important thing abouttime blocking is that you put a
sequence of similar taskstogether, which means that
you're minimizing what's calledtask switching.
The biggest issue, if you getto the end of the day and you
(22:57):
feel busy but not productive,has more to do with task
switching than anything else.
So I could probably go waydeeper into that.
But time your main goal in stepnumber one is to carve out
eight to 10 hours per week towork on the business.
That is not additional time,that is not working on the
(23:18):
weekends, that's not anything.
It's existing time that youhave right now.
You're carving it out, you'rejust moving things around.
Let's just say, william, you'regoing through this process and
you can only capture two hoursand so I can't do the eight, I
can only do two.
What do you do at that time?
That's when you move on to stepnumber two.
Now, step number two is buildingwhat's called a delegation
(23:39):
system, and basically what thatmeans is getting everything out
of your head and your team'shead into systems and procedures
so that way the people that aredoing the work can switch
without the customer beingimpacted.
I learned this in corporate.
One of my biggest projects thatI had in the company was to
create what's called a customerprotection plan.
(24:00):
So if unions went on strike,how do you make sure that the
material still gets to theclients and the clients are not
impacted by whatever's happeningin the factory, right?
So the delegation system.
There's actually a process thatI go through in the book.
So again, if you want moredetails, you can go into the
book.
But the delegation system ismeant to start freeing you up
(24:23):
Now.
Sometimes people rush to hiringand I would suggest not doing
that.
What I would suggest is thatyou start using that time.
So, william, if you werebuilding those systems and you
only got the two hours, there'sa strategy in the book of which
ones to actually start buildingfirst.
But as you're going through it,let's say you start to document
and capture whatever it is forlike running ad campaigns or set
(24:46):
up of ad campaigns and youcapture an SOP or system and you
start to use your own system.
So if it used to be two hoursto run ad campaigns and you use
a system now that is documentedthat two hours should be 90
minutes, should be 60 minutes,should be whatever, and the time
(25:06):
that you free up, you just movetowards working on the business
and it just becomes a cycleeventually just starts spreading
and becoming more and more.
You're building the systemsthat allow you to free up time.
Is this making sense.
So far, 100%, awesome.
As you build up systems, what'snaturally going to happen is
you're so close to the work,you're going to start to
(25:28):
understand what is valuable andwhat's not valuable, kind of
similar to what you're doingwith your time eliminate,
automate, delegate time, block,right You're going to naturally
start looking at what is mostvaluable and from there you're
going to start understandingthat there are certain services,
certain things that you'reoffering that you're just not
that good at.
There are so many full serviceagencies that feel as though
(25:51):
they have to be everything toeveryone and in actuality
they're diluting their trueexpertise.
And if you can figure out whatthose core services are, and
then you can figure out who getsthe most value of all the
clients that you could serve,who gets the most value from
those core services, you nowstart to create what's called a
(26:13):
minimum viable solution.
It's the least amount of efforton your end, greatest results
for the client.
And if you price that minimumviable solution to your clients
and according to value asopposed to hours, right, then
immediately you're starting toshift and differentiate yourself
.
So step number three is basedaround that minimum viable
solution and you start toidentify not only who you're
(26:37):
serving, but what you'reoffering and what it does is you
have to go back to the market.
So you have to take that newoffer, even if it's a repackage,
and you have to make sure thatit actually works in the market.
So you go back to step numberfour, which is filling up your
pipeline.
And filling up your pipelineactually comes down to three
(27:01):
client attraction systemsworking together.
A lot of people think abouttactics like I'm going to do an
email newsletter and then I'mgood, or I'm just going to do
paid ads or whatever it is.
Client attraction comes down toa referral system, an outbound
system and an inbound system.
If you work all three of thosetogether, you create what's
(27:22):
called exponential demand.
I can give you an example ofthat.
Let's just use Susan as anexample.
So how we build clientattraction systems in niche and
control, like create anexponential demand, came down to
in Susan's testimonial.
She kept on using the wordsspinning her wheels Okay, I'm
spinning my wheels, spinning mywheels, reinventing the wheel
(27:42):
right.
Spinning her wheels Okay, I'mspinning my wheels, spinning my
wheels, reinventing the wheelRight.
And I was like I just have thisrandom hypothesis.
If I did, if I said are youspinning your wheels, question
mark, and then put that into acold email campaign Could I find
more Susans?
And it works.
Those little tiny example.
That's a very simple example oftaking a referral system where
(28:04):
you're getting social proof andtestimonials and pulling it into
an outbound system.
Okay, and then what we did washe took those testimonials, like
Susan, and then we we compiledthem all into a case study video
.
The case study video is whateverybody watches before they
jump on a call with me.
You can go tonicheandcontrolcom slash case
(28:24):
study video if you want to seeit.
You know, and and that's how.
That's an example of how aclient attraction system
referral to outbound to inboundcan work.
Now, it can be as simple as thator it can be a lot more complex
, a lot of moving parts.
But the goal in step numberfour is that you have enough
(28:44):
systems, that you're creating anexponential demand and that the
filling of the pipeline orbooking appointments is no
longer the bottleneck, whichleads towards step number five,
which is empowering your people,which is probably very dear to
your heart, william.
100% yeah.
And step number five is reallyall the people systems hiring,
(29:05):
training, managing, leading thepeople, meeting structures at
work, communicating the vision,all that kind of stuff, and the
main kind of goal is that yourteam and parts of your team, or
individual people or teams, canrun whole parts of the company,
so that way you can focus ongrowth or taking time for
yourself and I always say takingtime for yourself, because
(29:26):
vision does not come from doingwork, it comes from space, it
comes from time.
Dr. William Attaway (29:32):
That's right margin.
Jesse Gilmore (29:34):
Yes, taking a step back in order for you to
find it.
So thank you for letting me goon a rant there about our method
.
Dr. William Attaway (29:42):
No, that was so good.
I mean, there's so much clarityI think that you're providing,
and I know our listeners arelike oh okay, wait a minute, I'm
not sure I've dealt with that,or I'm not sure I've got that
piece, or wait a minute, we'rejust a mess.
We don't have the structure atall.
You do monthly master classesfor agency owners.
(30:03):
What are those is?
Jesse Gilmore (30:07):
that where you unpack a lot of these things
yeah, one of the coolest things.
So we used to do webinars.
I did webinars for about fouryears or so and, uh, what I
wanted to do is I wanted tobreak all skepticism.
If you are an agency ownerthat's listening to this, I
guarantee you're listening to itand you're like screw that,
there's no way You've beenaround marketing messages so
much that there's someskepticism.
(30:28):
And I want you to embrace theskepticism and do your due
diligence.
And when I did webinars, I hada decent amount of results with
it.
But I got to a certain placewhere I was like I think what I
want to do is I actually want tosolve a problem.
I'm kind of sick of just beingon the soapbox and just going,
hey, we're great, or talkingabout the method and being like
(30:50):
yay and like, oh, you know, nottoo sure.
So I started thesemasterclasses about six months
ago or so and what I wanted todo is I wanted to allot a
two-day, two hours per daysolving of the problem.
So, whatever the problem is andthe one that's coming up in 11
(31:10):
days from this recording is ouroffer.
So that whole step number threewe're literally solving the
offer issue and in a total offour hours, you walk away with
an understanding of how you'regoing to position your offer,
what your core competence is,what your core services are and
maybe even some pricing andpackaging.
Amazing, I didn't do that in theway beginning with, like
(31:31):
webinars, where I was like youjust have to believe me.
It's amazing, you know, andpeople are now coming into the
masterclasses and they'releaving with a result, and I
think that the masterclasseslike people use that word now,
the moment that it became like atrendy thing, everybody's like
join our masterclass.
It's 45 minutes I was likethat's not a masterclass, that's
(31:53):
a pitch.
The masterclass.
That's the reason why the eventis different and we started
doing it on a monthly basis.
I have gotten testimonials fromjust a masterclass and one of
the cool things is we have nowin our newer model, which has
nine different outcomes.
(32:14):
We're solving one of the nineand the offer is such a crucial
part of this whole thing Becauseif you get the offer right, you
know who you're talking with,it simplifies the systems,
you're getting paid more.
There's like so many benefitsthat come from solving that one
issue.
But yeah, the masterclasses ohdude, they're fun People get to
(32:36):
see me in a coaching mode asopposed to like a pitching mode,
you know.
Dr. William Attaway (32:41):
That's so good.
You are constantly pouring outand adding value.
I mean in so many ways, and Isee you.
I see what you're doing online,I see what you're doing with
your clients.
I love this.
I love the value that you areadding.
Let me circle to you for asecond.
Like you know, you have to leadtoday at a higher level than
you did two, three, five yearsago, and that same thing is
(33:04):
going to be true two, three,five years from now.
Your team, your clients,everybody around you needs you
to lead and continue to beleveling up.
How do you do that?
How do you stay on top of yourgame and level up with the new
leadership skills that your teamand your business and your
clients are going to need you tohave in the years to come?
Jesse Gilmore (33:27):
It's a good question.
I think one of the greatestthings that I do is I have these
habits very similar to the plantomorrow, today, and the weekly
review and the monthly.
You know all that kind of stuff.
I just do it and I think thatthere's a part of leadership
that's really boring.
That's so true.
Dr. William Attaway (33:46):
Consistency is not exciting.
Jesse Gilmore (33:50):
It's the part that's tapping into the vision
on a consistent basis andsometimes sitting with unknowns
and sitting until you haveclarity.
Until you have clarity and thatrepetition, that routine of
just getting into the zone ofasking yourself a question what
is my target this week?
(34:11):
Just waiting.
What is something that's holdingmy team back that I can do to
relieve that?
And sometimes you have so muchmomentum that you think that
it's always going to continuethat way, and one of the
greatest things you can do andwhat I'm doing as a leader, is
looking ahead.
(34:31):
So when you free up time, whathappens is that you don't focus
so much on what's going tohappen in the next minute, hour,
day, right, and the best CEOsof our time are looking at what
needs to happen this quarter,this year, five years.
How is AI, which is the biggesttopic right now?
(34:52):
How is that going to impactleadership and the company and
the market and the globallandscape years from now?
All right, the same goes for meand what I'm doing.
So when I was originallythinking about, you know, my day
or my week, I was thinkingabout what I needed to do, right
.
But now I have a team that doesa lot of things Right, and
(35:13):
there's a lot of parts to itwhere I'm like, ok, did I give
that team member everything thatthey need?
Oh, they're going to need it onThursday.
I'm just going to do it onMonday, and you start getting to
a place where you start to freeup even more time and then
eventually, what happens isyou're able to look at
leadership and where is thedirection of the company going,
(35:34):
not from like the day or theweek.
You're starting to look atmonth, quarter and so forth.
So how I'm diving into it, Irealize that I am constantly
flawed and I'm always lookingfor new opportunities to improve
, and I screw up so many times,but I'm just transparent about
it and then I learn and then Ikeep on going, and I think that
(35:56):
transparency earns the trust ofthe people that follow me,
whether it's from followers onsocial media, because I'm very
active on LinkedIn or it'speople that actually pay me to
be a coaching consultant forthem.
And I truly believe thatleadership is an honor, it is a
(36:19):
gift, and it can be taken awayif you mess up and you're,
you're, you're, you're not likenot mess up as like a leader,
but like mess up as not leadingyourself.
And so I am constantly findingdifferent ways that I can lead,
and it's not always based aroundbusiness.
Like, I'm leading my son on thedevelopment of faith and he's
really interested in God, so I'mtaking him to church, and my
(36:41):
daughter is really interested inyou know Taekwondo and so then
I'm going to her meeting likeTaekwondo belt tests and stuff,
you know, I'm like investing init and I'm leading a family.
And the same exact thing goeswith body and with spirituality
and with business.
And I think that leadershipcomes down to leading yourself,
(37:03):
but not just in business.
No one wants to be onedimensional and if you do, do
some self-reflection.
Dr. William Attaway (37:12):
We have a journaling exercise just for you
.
Yes, we have a journalingexercise just for you.
Yes, that's so good, and Icould not possibly agree with
you more.
It is a privilege, it is a giftto get to lead, and you are one
person, and if you think youcan compartmentalize one part of
your life off, that's not howyou're wired, that's not how
you're designed.
Every part of you touches everyother part, and to live a life
(37:35):
of integrity means you're livinga life that is integrated,
where every part truly doestouch and influence every other
part, and you're not trying toartificially wall off certain
parts of your life.
I think that's a very healthyway of looking at that, jesse.
Jesse Gilmore (37:50):
Yeah, and one of my mentors he had said you know,
people don't have businessproblems, they have life
problems that are reflected intheir business.
And when I got that, I startedunderstanding that actual, true,
like business, growth comesfrom self-actualization.
So Maslow's hierarchy, you know, you like rise up and you get
(38:14):
to a place where you're startingto become the better version of
yourself.
And a lot of what I do withclients, yeah, it has to do with
systems and, yes, it has to dowith the process and the method
I was talking about.
But in actuality, what'shappening is is you're becoming
a better version of you.
And true leadership is where youstart to unlock those pieces.
(38:34):
You know you start to unlock.
What is that vision?
Where do I want to take thiscompany and why would people
follow me and devote their lifetowards a business that I'm
owning?
That's more than just apaycheck, right?
It's these questions that getpeople to start thinking about
leadership in a different way,and Susan's totally right.
(38:56):
It's these questions that getpeople to start thinking about
leadership in a different way,and Susan's totally right
Everything about going throughour method or business growth or
becoming a better leader comesdown to that mindset and that
transformational part.
I always talk about nichecontrol, not being a
(39:18):
transactional company, but beinga transformational company,
because we're in the business oftransforming people and we just
happen to be really good atworking with agency owners.
Dr. William Attaway (39:24):
That's so good.
You know you've reflected anumber of times in this
conversation how much you are acontinual learner.
I'm just curious is there abook that has made a big
difference in your journey thatyou would recommend to the list,
to the leaders who arelistening?
Hey, if you haven't read this,check it out.
Jesse Gilmore (39:44):
I was going to say my own book.
Dr. William Attaway (39:49):
Which is a great book, by the way.
I finished reading that andthere's so much value in there.
We're going to have a link tothat in the show notes I don't
you.
Jesse Gilmore (39:56):
you asked me a question about which book kind
of unlocks something forleadership and there's not a
very specific book that comes tomind.
And the reason why is because Ithink like I've gone through
about 400 business books andprobably about 100 of them are
leadership oriented, right.
Um, I think in the waybeginning it was like John C
Maxwell books and then it turnedinto some other things and then
(40:20):
I got into organizationalalignment and four disciplines
of execution and then I got intoa bunch of other things.
But when it comes to likeleadership, I think my own
understanding of leadership isreally the combination of all of
them.
So I don't really think thatthere's a very specific book
that kind of stands out.
But I would say everything thatI've talked about so far I've
(40:43):
given an understanding ofexactly how to do that, how to
create that leadership foryourself.
In the book that I've createdand I didn't really hold back
there's like 256 pages worth ofbuilding the systems, the
mindset behind it and things tolook out for, you know, and so
forth.
Dr. William Attaway (41:00):
And I think the value is so present in that
book because of theauthenticity you brought to it,
jesse.
I think the you know thestories that you tell, the
suggestions, the insights thatyou share like these are hard
won.
These are actual examples fromreal people, real lives,
including your own, and I thinkthat's the power that I see when
(41:23):
I was reading through this.
I know our listeners are goingto want to continue to stay in
touch with you, continue tolearn from you and learn more
about what this whole niche andcontrol thing is all about.
What is the best way for themto do that?
Jesse Gilmore (41:38):
Absolutely.
If you're an agency owner,there's two main ways that I can
help you.
First one is if you're lookingfor a new core offer or you know
one of those events or thosemasterclasses kind of stand out
to you, I highly recommendapplying to one of our
masterclasses.
Now, it's not for somebody whodoesn't have five paying clients
(41:58):
or is under $10,000 a month.
Everything that we're doingfrom a strategy component is all
based around six or sevenfigure agencies, and if you're
more than seven figures, it'sgoing to work for you as well.
Eventsnichecontrolcom is like aredirection link that leads
towards whatever monthlymasterclass works out that we
have at that time.
That would be the highest valuething that I could ever give an
(42:22):
agency owner.
Second highest value isobviously the book, and in the
book I don't hold back.
I give you a lot of thingsthere.
On LinkedIn, I'm posting fivedays a week.
I'm super active there.
If you connect with me onLinkedIn, I'm posting, you know,
five days a week, I'm superactive there.
If you connect with me onLinkedIn, I can share different
resources.
We have a bunch of differentresources for agency owners, and
(42:44):
so you can go to linkedincomslash in slash, jesse P Gilmore.
Otherwise, I'm on YouTube.
I'll probably give William,give you a bunch of links that
you can put on there.
But otherwise, if you want tocheck out just
nicheandcontrolcom, we have ourpodcasts, the books on there and
there's probably about fiveother resources I'm not
(43:06):
mentioning right now.
But yeah, we have a lot ofdifferent things that we can
give agency owners.
I love that.
Dr. William Attaway (43:10):
We'll have those links in the show notes
and I really want to encouragepeople to connect with Jesse.
I want to connect you, I wantyou all to connect, because
there's so much value that youare continually dropping there.
I think this is somethingthat's really going to benefit
our listeners.
So listen up, go connect, gotake action on this right now.
Jesse, thank you for being here.
(43:31):
Thank you for sharing sogenerously from what you've
learned so far and how you'vehelped so many other agency
owners.
I can't wait to see what isnext for you.
Jesse Gilmore (43:42):
Me too.
Thank you so much, William.
Appreciate it.
It is such an honor today to have Jesse
Gilmore on the podcast.
Jesse is the founder and CEO ofNiche in Control.
He helps digital marketingagency owners escape the chaos
of daily operations and build abusiness that scales without
them, so they can finally stepinto the CEO role that they were
meant for.
(00:20):
Before starting Niche inControl, he dissolved three of
his own businesses.
He was working 60 to 80-hourweeks, completely burnt out and
stuck in the same trap that henow helps his clients to escape.
It wasn't until he spent fiveyears in corporate America
leading over 100 projects andbuilding systems that supported
(00:41):
$180 million acquisition that herealized the missing piece
systems, leverage andself-leadership.
Since launching Nation Control,he has helped over 90 agency
owners to double their revenue,build self-sufficient teams and
create predictable growthwithout sacrificing their time,
(01:03):
their family or their freedom.
His framework, the Leverage forGrowth Method, combines
scalable systems, teamempowerment and consistent lead
generation to help agency ownersstop being the bottleneck and
start leading a thrivingbusiness.
He's also the author of theAgency Owner's Guide to Freedom
(01:26):
and host of the Leverage forGrowth podcast, where he reverse
engineers agency successstories to help others grow with
intention.
His mission is simple helpagency owners reclaim their time
, increase their impact andfinally build a business that
works without them.
(01:46):
Jesse, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Jesse Gilmore (01:49):
Yeah, thanks a lot for having me, and that was
an awesome introduction, so Iappreciate it.
Dr. William Attaway (01:57):
I've been looking forward to this
conversation.
Jesse, this is going to be alot of fun.
Intro / Outro (02:03):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the
podcast designed to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (02:20):
I would love to start with you sharing
some of your story with ourlisteners.
I hit some of the high points,but I would love to hear
particularly around your journeyand your development as a
leader.
How did you get started?
Jesse Gilmore (02:40):
business with my brother, jeremy, and in my first
businesses I was kind of like astudent.
I didn't really know much aboutbusiness.
I didn't go to school forbusiness at the way beginning
and the humble beginnings camefrom doing door-to-door sales
and working with business owners.
And one of the common thingsthat I kept on asking every
(03:00):
business owner was what's theticket to a long-lasting,
sustainable business?
And I took a lot of notes inthe way beginning and it became
like 17 journals of the 80 pagenotes, or 80 page journals
filled with notes of the answers, and I thought that that I had
captured everything and I did myhomework.
(03:20):
So when I started my business,a lot of it was based around
what I had been told asuccessful business was going to
require.
And over a period of time inthose first businesses I just
kind of got stuck.
I didn't really understandsystems.
No one that I asked for saidbuild some systems and this is
(03:41):
how you do it, some systems andthis is how you do it.
And so I kind of found itthrough like the hard knock life
you know of.
You know trying to take allthis information about business
and success and and apply it,and I kind of just got to a
place where it was kind of likethis hamster wheel the more work
(04:02):
that I did, the more success Ilooked like I was having, but on
the inside I was kind of dying.
And I think leadership reallycame from an understanding that
I had to lead myself and througheven challenges in my first
three businesses and dissolvingthem and if you ever want to
hear about my backstory, you canfollow me on LinkedIn or read
(04:22):
my book or something.
But those humble beginningstaught me the importance of
leadership, and leadership comesfrom an understanding of that.
You are kind of like called orpulled towards something that's
bigger than where you arecurrently Right.
Yes, and I think that one ofthe greatest things I ever
learned from myself was to beable to lead myself and have a
(04:47):
vision and be able to get pulledtowards something.
And we'll probably talk aboutvision and leadership.
But I think I had very humblebeginnings.
I started to get glimpses ofwhat leadership could be, and it
wasn't until I was working withVPs of a $4 billion global
corporation that I startedunderstanding what separated
good leaders from leaders thatare just kind of like leadership
(05:10):
as a title but not reallyleading, and then which ones
actually had like a vision andwhich ones didn't, and then how
that actually started leadingtowards what I do with niching
control and actually pullingsome of that leadership out of
my clients.
Dr. William Attaway (05:23):
You know, I often say that you're the
hardest person that you're evergoing to lead, and so much of
what I hear in your story isthat realization, that growth,
understanding that and how tolead yourself well.
Where did that start for you?
Where did you begin to developthat muscle, that skill of
(05:44):
leading yourself well?
Jesse Gilmore (05:46):
Sure, so I've been.
I'm kind of a hoarder of acouple of things.
One of the things is actuallyjust documenting my experience
and I think that just the act ofjournaling I've been doing
since about 16 or 17, and I'llturn 40 at the end of this year,
so a long time journaling.
(06:07):
And I think that leadershipcomes in understanding how to
lead yourself, actually comesfrom understanding that you are
on a journey, right, and youdidn't just happen to be here.
They're like there's somethingthat has led to this certain
point in your life.
You, listening to this podcastwith me and William, you know
something has led you to thismoment.
(06:29):
And when you can look backwardsand start measuring not
necessarily like from where youare to where you wanna be, but
from where you were before andwhere you got now, and measuring
that progress, you start tounderstand that when there's
pieces of a puzzle that arebeing put together and sometimes
you don't actually know whereit's going Sometimes you do and
(06:52):
sometimes you don't and I thinkthat the leadership piece comes
from understanding that you'reon a journey and you're going
somewhere.
And I think that once you startunderstanding where you're
going somewhere, I thinkjournaling is a big kind of
proponent, at least for mejournaling, meditating, asking a
question to the universe or God, and then just sitting and
(07:13):
waiting for an answer, like itkind of like.
A lot of people are not likedoing that and they probably
should, but that triggers theleadership.
You have to have somethingthat's pulling you.
You can't be pushed intoleadership, you have to pull.
So that's probably a wholetopic right there.
Dr. William Attaway (07:29):
But yeah, I mean I love the reflective
aspect of journaling.
I think that that's aphenomenal exercise for us all
and when you do it like you andI do like you see the value of
it because it forces evaluation.
I'm a big proponent and teacherthat experience is not what
makes you better, evaluatedexperience is what makes you
(07:51):
better.
And I think journaling is atool to help with that
reflection, because as you'reevaluating, as I'm journaling,
I'm thinking like, okay, whatcan I celebrate?
What are the wins?
Where did I swing and miss youknow what?
Would I do different next timein a similar situation?
So you're processing thatlearning For you, that process
of evaluation and reflectionthrough journaling.
(08:14):
What are some ways that you'veseen that bear fruit in future
situations that you went throughand did that process?
And then the next time you werethere, what does that look like
for you?
Jesse Gilmore (08:25):
Yeah, yeah, I think one of the greatest things
that you can do with thejournaling.
So sometimes when I sayjournaling, people are like what
am I supposed to write, right?
Or they buy a journalingnotebook and then they're like
there's a bunch of prompts.
I think there's a couple ofkind of like even just
structured journaling that canget to what I'm about to answer
(08:46):
your question with.
One of them is something assimple as a plan tomorrow, today
, where at the end of the day,you're looking back and you're
saying what are the top threeaccomplishments of today and
then what are the top threeaccomplishments that will happen
tomorrow, right?
So a lot of people talk aboutto-do lists and stuff like that
and that's not really asbeneficial as something that's
(09:07):
like highly prioritized, right.
And if you do something like aplan tomorrow, today, but you do
it on a weekly basis or amonthly basis and instead of
looking at the day, you'relooking at a week or a month or
a quarter or even a year, thatone process works really well.
(09:35):
So the reason why I wanted togive that frame is because that
one simple activity I've beendoing for about six years and
just looking at what happenedyesterday and what am I kind of
learning from are certain timesin my life where I have
something that happens right InFebruary my father died, so I
was looking back on likechildhood and journals about
that right.
And then other times we hitcertain milestones where our
team grew to 11, you know andbefore I had a vision of a team
(09:57):
of 11, you know, you look backand you start seeing that
there's little glimpses of whatthe future is going to be if you
continue on a certain track,and those kinds of scenarios
allow journaling to kind of belike the breadcrumbs, and that
evaluated experience that youwere talking about just a second
(10:17):
ago is beautifully capturingwhat I'm talking about right now
, where you're looking back andyou're starting to see I had a
vision for something that wasn'tthere yet.
I was being pulled towards itand now I have experienced that
and I don't know if I trulyanswered your question, but I
think those concepts of beingable to look at it kind of lead
(10:38):
towards it.
Dr. William Attaway (10:40):
Well, I think that framing is really
helpful because I hear the samething that you just described.
You know why would I start, howdo I do this?
Like really helpful because Ihear the same thing that you
just described.
You know where do I start, howdo I do this?
Like, what am I supposed towrite down?
And I think having some framing, especially at the beginning,
is incredibly helpful.
So, thinking through your storyand some of the highlights I
read and some of what you shared, this is the question that I
can't wait to hear the answer to.
(11:00):
Why digital marketing agencies?
Everybody asked me that question, I mean just looking at your
experience it's broad, it'svaried, it's wide.
Jesse Gilmore (11:22):
Why digital marketing agencies?
And I'll answer of unpack that.
So when I looked at, I actuallycreated the company called
Niche in Control before I evenhad a niche.
So in the first year or so mywebsite you guys probably would
laugh at is just like coachingand consulting to grow your
(11:44):
business.
It's like the most like genericthing ever on a
nichingcontrolcom website.
But anyway, so I didn't reallyknow.
And in the way beginning Iactually built Niche and Control
on the side because during thatbusiness acquisition I wasn't
too sure what was going tohappen with corporate and I was
like I'm kind of stumbling uponsomething that allows me to tap
(12:06):
into something that doesn't havereally limits.
Right, when you're an employeeyou have limits to certain
things.
Right, when you're an employerand an entrepreneur, you have a
little bit more options.
So in the way beginning Istarted working with any clients
that really would pay me.
So I had a B2C SaaS company andpretty early I was like, oh,
(12:35):
I'm really good at projectmanagement and it seems like
they don't really have goodsystems, so I'm going to help
them with some systems.
And then the next client waslike a copywriter and I was like
, oh man, if you just move somethings around.
Instead of it taking you threeweeks, it's going to take you
four days.
And they're like, holy crap, Iincreased my capacity.
I'm like, oh yeah, cool.
And then I, by the grace of God,I got connected with a digital
(12:58):
marketing agency and I startedworking with Warren and he was
one of the first ones that Ijust went all in with, where the
previous ones were kind of onthe side and I was kind of
seeing what it was.
When I worked with Warren, Iwas just like all right, we're
going to meet on a weekly basisand we're going to be
implementing this very specificstrategy and I can talk more
about the strategy later.
(13:19):
But the most important thingwas I started working with him.
And the most important thingwas I started working with him
and once we started to unpackwhat I called leverage for
growth, which is our method, andI started to apply it to his
business, it was likeastronomical how much of a big
difference it actually was to beimplementing a proven system.
And the proven system wasliterally what did I learn in
(13:39):
corporate that I didn't learnbefore?
And what did I if I was toteach somebody like how to build
systems and make the businessnot rely upon them.
If I was able to do that early,what would be the effect?
And Warren was like the firstone that actually went through
the process.
He went from 15,000 to 100,009months while reducing his
workload.
Wow, it was like what the heck?
(14:02):
And he even talks about it.
He's like I had three peopleand now I have eight full-time
employees and six contractors.
I was like wow, that's crazy.
Um, and once I started torealize that it worked and I can
talk more about why it workedand it wasn't always based
around the method.
Actually, there's uh kind of asynergy between someone who
knows about marketing andsomeone knows about systems and
(14:24):
like the yin and the yanghappening.
But what we did was I took thatfirst version of the program
that I was applying towardsWarren and I figured out what
worked and what didn't, got ridof what didn't, did more of it
worked.
I became version two.
Then I went through a wholenother year did that with other
agencies and I started realizingthat certain agencies were
(14:44):
getting better results.
Susan doubled her business insix months and then got acquired
in 18 and says like everythinghad changed when she started
working with me and it's notabout me.
It's more based around justlike the right fit, and the
right fit kept on happening withagencies, and I can talk more
about that from like a like, alike either, a qualitative kind
(15:06):
of side of things, where peopleare more creative and then they
get a left brain systems person,and that seems to work really
well.
If people are familiar with theEOS method, it's EOS is not.
It's too complex for like a sixfigure agency.
There's too many things goingunless you have a bigger team.
But, like we kind of do an EOSlight right.
(15:28):
So, um, there's a lot ofdifferent reasons on why it
actually works, but we've nowgone through six versions of
what I was just talking about,where you apply version 2.0 and
then you take what works and getrid of what doesn't, and we've
built so many different feedbackcycles that make it so it just
keeps on becoming more of aproven process.
Dr. William Attaway (15:50):
So, yeah, I read earlier that you have
helped over 90 agency ownersthrough this process.
That's a lot Like what is your.
You mentioned Warren.
What are some other stories ofpeople that you have helped
navigate this difficult thing ofgrowing and scaling without
(16:11):
running yourself into the ground?
Jesse Gilmore (16:13):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Susan was one of the secondones that went through a massive
transformation.
So Susan was a full-servicecreative agency owner and she
very specifically worked witharchitectural product-based
companies and helping with themcreative and already had kind of
(16:34):
like the niche figured out.
And when I was working with her, and actually when I talked
with her, she's like I've beentrying to grow this business for
over 20 years.
I've hired people like David CBaker and like everybody else
that's kind of like known in theagency space and she's like
they're really like helpful.
They got us to be able to be anauthority in the place.
But every time that they talkabout scale it's too conceptual
(16:58):
and I've tried so many differentthings.
I'm just kind of stuck and Ifeel as though I'm spinning my
wheels.
She was one that just kept onsaying spinning my wheels,
reinventing the wheels, like thesame thing over and over again.
And she goes I'm to the pointwhere, if I don't fix this, I'm
so sick of spinning my wheelsthat I'm going to shut it down
within six months.
And unless you can help me getthere, I was like I'm down for
(17:25):
it and she's like all right,you're very confident.
I'm like yeah, you just got todo these certain things, and
she's like all right, let's doit.
And not only did she double insix months, but she got it to
where it wasn't relying upon her, and that is an astronomical
change.
She actually wrote the forwardin the book and for anybody
(17:47):
that's listening or watching,I'll give William the link to
either the audio book or giveyou a copy of it.
But in the forward she'sliterally talking about this I'm
going to give Jesse six monthsto turn my business around.
I'm going to shut it down aboutthis.
I'm going to give Jesse sixmonths to turn my business
around.
I'm going to shut it down to aplace where, um, at the end of
the six months, she's like Iasked her.
I was like so are you going tocontinue or what's going on?
(18:10):
She's like hell, yeah, I'mgoing to continue.
She's like this is so much fun,like the team is excited about
the work and like we cut out arandom stuff and like it's, it's
kind of crazy.
So, and then, in 18 months fromwhen we started, she actually
got acquired by a pr firm thatwas a little bit bigger in the
same exact space, and so thenthey have the pr and the
(18:32):
creative together and she talksabout one of the biggest changes
was not necessarily like thescale everybody bleeds with,
like revenue, but it was likewho I became in the process was
different and who the a likewhat the agency became.
She's like if we would havebeen approached by that pr firm,
you know, maybe 18 monthsearlier, it would not have been
(18:56):
like attractive to them, right,and there wouldn't be an
acquisition.
But what happened was it madeit to where it was a sellable
asset, you know.
And so, yeah, there's probablyso much to unpack and I know you
asked for a couple of differentcase studies, but Susan is one
that if you watch hertestimonial, it's like 14
minutes on her on YouTube.
(19:17):
She goes through literally stepby step at this certain time,
this is what we did, and thenthis is a certain time, this is
what we did, and then thiscertain time, this is what we
did.
And then she talks about thewhole entire thing was mindset
as like system's cool, it's justmindset.
How are you seeing it?
And I think that brings us backto our conversation about
leadership, because mindset andleadership go hand in hand
(19:39):
Vision and acquisition andgrowth and everything that an
agency owner is trying toaccomplish.
Going from the doer to the CEOcomes down to how you're viewing
things and what's going on inthat mind.
Dr. William Attaway (19:51):
So well said.
I often equate this to being atthe center of the spider web.
When an agency owner is in thatspot and everything connects to
you, that's not a sellableasset, right?
Because you rip you out, thewhole thing falls apart.
What you're describing isbuilding something that is
sellable, that will scale, thatis actually operating at a
(20:13):
healthy and sustainable pace forthe long haul.
So talk about the strategy, theframework that you encourage
and teach in your mastermind.
Jesse Gilmore (20:25):
Absolutely yeah.
So we have an inside-outapproach to growth.
So typically, what people do ina lot of agency growth programs
, there's nothing wrong withother programs, it's just
different ways of doing things.
A lot of other programs focuson sales and then they focus on
pipeline and then they kind ofwork their way from an external
focus and then they build thebusiness around that external
(20:48):
part.
Now for us, we do way more ofan internal was talking about in
my previous businesses working68 hour weeks and everything's
dependent on them and if youdon't work, work doesn't get
done.
The issue has nothing to do withnew business.
(21:08):
It has everything to do withtime use.
Productivity systems offers,right, so foundational stuff
that sets up for everything else.
So in the leverage for growthmethod and we've revised it one
more time, right, but we'll keepit really simple.
There's five main steps to theprocess and before we jump into
(21:32):
everything, we just start withtime time use.
We have every single client gothrough a time log.
It's like the first seven days.
You just log your time for halfan hour every single day for
seven days.
Personal, professional, includesleep, include scrolling on
social media, include watchingbinge, watching Netflix,
whatever it is.
(21:53):
Capture it.
Okay, and from that time log,there are four things that you
can do with that, uh, thatoutput.
You can figure out what you caneliminate.
So what are you doing right now?
You can just get rid of, andthen, if you can do with that,
uh, that output, you can figureout what you can eliminate.
So what are you doing right now?
You can just get rid of, andthen, if you can't get rid of it
, can you automate it?
Is it something that'spredictable?
Data transfers should never bedone by a human.
(22:13):
That was one thing I just said.
In a linked automation, then, ifyou can't eliminate it,
automate it.
Can you delegate?
Can you give it to somebodyelse?
Right, and it's low risk, lowvalue tasks, right, and then, if
(22:36):
you can't do those three, thenwhat's left over?
You need to time block.
Now, time blocking.
People always talk like, oh,I'm just going to put one hour
on here, I'm going to do this.
The most important thing abouttime blocking is that you put a
sequence of similar taskstogether, which means that
you're minimizing what's calledtask switching.
The biggest issue, if you getto the end of the day and you
(22:57):
feel busy but not productive,has more to do with task
switching than anything else.
So I could probably go waydeeper into that.
But time your main goal in stepnumber one is to carve out
eight to 10 hours per week towork on the business.
That is not additional time,that is not working on the
(23:18):
weekends, that's not anything.
It's existing time that youhave right now.
You're carving it out, you'rejust moving things around.
Let's just say, william, you'regoing through this process and
you can only capture two hoursand so I can't do the eight, I
can only do two.
What do you do at that time?
That's when you move on to stepnumber two.
Now, step number two is buildingwhat's called a delegation
(23:39):
system, and basically what thatmeans is getting everything out
of your head and your team'shead into systems and procedures
so that way the people that aredoing the work can switch
without the customer beingimpacted.
I learned this in corporate.
One of my biggest projects thatI had in the company was to
create what's called a customerprotection plan.
(24:00):
So if unions went on strike,how do you make sure that the
material still gets to theclients and the clients are not
impacted by whatever's happeningin the factory, right?
So the delegation system.
There's actually a process thatI go through in the book.
So again, if you want moredetails, you can go into the
book.
But the delegation system ismeant to start freeing you up
(24:23):
Now.
Sometimes people rush to hiringand I would suggest not doing
that.
What I would suggest is thatyou start using that time.
So, william, if you werebuilding those systems and you
only got the two hours, there'sa strategy in the book of which
ones to actually start buildingfirst.
But as you're going through it,let's say you start to document
and capture whatever it is forlike running ad campaigns or set
(24:46):
up of ad campaigns and youcapture an SOP or system and you
start to use your own system.
So if it used to be two hoursto run ad campaigns and you use
a system now that is documentedthat two hours should be 90
minutes, should be 60 minutes,should be whatever, and the time
(25:06):
that you free up, you just movetowards working on the business
and it just becomes a cycleeventually just starts spreading
and becoming more and more.
You're building the systemsthat allow you to free up time.
Is this making sense.
So far, 100%, awesome.
As you build up systems, what'snaturally going to happen is
you're so close to the work,you're going to start to
(25:28):
understand what is valuable andwhat's not valuable, kind of
similar to what you're doingwith your time eliminate,
automate, delegate time, block,right You're going to naturally
start looking at what is mostvaluable and from there you're
going to start understandingthat there are certain services,
certain things that you'reoffering that you're just not
that good at.
There are so many full serviceagencies that feel as though
(25:51):
they have to be everything toeveryone and in actuality
they're diluting their trueexpertise.
And if you can figure out whatthose core services are, and
then you can figure out who getsthe most value of all the
clients that you could serve,who gets the most value from
those core services, you nowstart to create what's called a
(26:13):
minimum viable solution.
It's the least amount of efforton your end, greatest results
for the client.
And if you price that minimumviable solution to your clients
and according to value asopposed to hours, right, then
immediately you're starting toshift and differentiate yourself
.
So step number three is basedaround that minimum viable
solution and you start toidentify not only who you're
(26:37):
serving, but what you'reoffering and what it does is you
have to go back to the market.
So you have to take that newoffer, even if it's a repackage,
and you have to make sure thatit actually works in the market.
So you go back to step numberfour, which is filling up your
pipeline.
And filling up your pipelineactually comes down to three
(27:01):
client attraction systemsworking together.
A lot of people think abouttactics like I'm going to do an
email newsletter and then I'mgood, or I'm just going to do
paid ads or whatever it is.
Client attraction comes down toa referral system, an outbound
system and an inbound system.
If you work all three of thosetogether, you create what's
(27:22):
called exponential demand.
I can give you an example ofthat.
Let's just use Susan as anexample.
So how we build clientattraction systems in niche and
control, like create anexponential demand, came down to
in Susan's testimonial.
She kept on using the wordsspinning her wheels Okay, I'm
spinning my wheels, spinning mywheels, reinventing the wheel
(27:42):
right.
Spinning her wheels Okay, I'mspinning my wheels, spinning my
wheels, reinventing the wheelRight.
And I was like I just have thisrandom hypothesis.
If I did, if I said are youspinning your wheels, question
mark, and then put that into acold email campaign Could I find
more Susans?
And it works.
Those little tiny example.
That's a very simple example oftaking a referral system where
(28:04):
you're getting social proof andtestimonials and pulling it into
an outbound system.
Okay, and then what we did washe took those testimonials, like
Susan, and then we we compiledthem all into a case study video
.
The case study video is whateverybody watches before they
jump on a call with me.
You can go tonicheandcontrolcom slash case
(28:24):
study video if you want to seeit.
You know, and and that's how.
That's an example of how aclient attraction system
referral to outbound to inboundcan work.
Now, it can be as simple as thator it can be a lot more complex
, a lot of moving parts.
But the goal in step numberfour is that you have enough
(28:44):
systems, that you're creating anexponential demand and that the
filling of the pipeline orbooking appointments is no
longer the bottleneck, whichleads towards step number five,
which is empowering your people,which is probably very dear to
your heart, william.
100% yeah.
And step number five is reallyall the people systems hiring,
(29:05):
training, managing, leading thepeople, meeting structures at
work, communicating the vision,all that kind of stuff, and the
main kind of goal is that yourteam and parts of your team, or
individual people or teams, canrun whole parts of the company,
so that way you can focus ongrowth or taking time for
yourself and I always say takingtime for yourself, because
(29:26):
vision does not come from doingwork, it comes from space, it
comes from time.
Dr. William Attaway (29:32):
That's right margin.
Jesse Gilmore (29:34):
Yes, taking a step back in order for you to
find it.
So thank you for letting me goon a rant there about our method
.
Dr. William Attaway (29:42):
No, that was so good.
I mean, there's so much clarityI think that you're providing,
and I know our listeners arelike oh okay, wait a minute, I'm
not sure I've dealt with that,or I'm not sure I've got that
piece, or wait a minute, we'rejust a mess.
We don't have the structure atall.
You do monthly master classesfor agency owners.
(30:03):
What are those is?
Jesse Gilmore (30:07):
that where you unpack a lot of these things
yeah, one of the coolest things.
So we used to do webinars.
I did webinars for about fouryears or so and, uh, what I
wanted to do is I wanted tobreak all skepticism.
If you are an agency ownerthat's listening to this, I
guarantee you're listening to itand you're like screw that,
there's no way You've beenaround marketing messages so
much that there's someskepticism.
(30:28):
And I want you to embrace theskepticism and do your due
diligence.
And when I did webinars, I hada decent amount of results with
it.
But I got to a certain placewhere I was like I think what I
want to do is I actually want tosolve a problem.
I'm kind of sick of just beingon the soapbox and just going,
hey, we're great, or talkingabout the method and being like
(30:50):
yay and like, oh, you know, nottoo sure.
So I started thesemasterclasses about six months
ago or so and what I wanted todo is I wanted to allot a
two-day, two hours per daysolving of the problem.
So, whatever the problem is andthe one that's coming up in 11
(31:10):
days from this recording is ouroffer.
So that whole step number threewe're literally solving the
offer issue and in a total offour hours, you walk away with
an understanding of how you'regoing to position your offer,
what your core competence is,what your core services are and
maybe even some pricing andpackaging.
Amazing, I didn't do that in theway beginning with, like
(31:31):
webinars, where I was like youjust have to believe me.
It's amazing, you know, andpeople are now coming into the
masterclasses and they'releaving with a result, and I
think that the masterclasseslike people use that word now,
the moment that it became like atrendy thing, everybody's like
join our masterclass.
It's 45 minutes I was likethat's not a masterclass, that's
(31:53):
a pitch.
The masterclass.
That's the reason why the eventis different and we started
doing it on a monthly basis.
I have gotten testimonials fromjust a masterclass and one of
the cool things is we have nowin our newer model, which has
nine different outcomes.
(32:14):
We're solving one of the nineand the offer is such a crucial
part of this whole thing Becauseif you get the offer right, you
know who you're talking with,it simplifies the systems,
you're getting paid more.
There's like so many benefitsthat come from solving that one
issue.
But yeah, the masterclasses ohdude, they're fun People get to
(32:36):
see me in a coaching mode asopposed to like a pitching mode,
you know.
Dr. William Attaway (32:41):
That's so good.
You are constantly pouring outand adding value.
I mean in so many ways, and Isee you.
I see what you're doing online,I see what you're doing with
your clients.
I love this.
I love the value that you areadding.
Let me circle to you for asecond.
Like you know, you have to leadtoday at a higher level than
you did two, three, five yearsago, and that same thing is
(33:04):
going to be true two, three,five years from now.
Your team, your clients,everybody around you needs you
to lead and continue to beleveling up.
How do you do that?
How do you stay on top of yourgame and level up with the new
leadership skills that your teamand your business and your
clients are going to need you tohave in the years to come?
Jesse Gilmore (33:27):
It's a good question.
I think one of the greatestthings that I do is I have these
habits very similar to the plantomorrow, today, and the weekly
review and the monthly.
You know all that kind of stuff.
I just do it and I think thatthere's a part of leadership
that's really boring.
That's so true.
Dr. William Attaway (33:46):
Consistency is not exciting.
Jesse Gilmore (33:50):
It's the part that's tapping into the vision
on a consistent basis andsometimes sitting with unknowns
and sitting until you haveclarity.
Until you have clarity and thatrepetition, that routine of
just getting into the zone ofasking yourself a question what
is my target this week?
(34:11):
Just waiting.
What is something that's holdingmy team back that I can do to
relieve that?
And sometimes you have so muchmomentum that you think that
it's always going to continuethat way, and one of the
greatest things you can do andwhat I'm doing as a leader, is
looking ahead.
(34:31):
So when you free up time, whathappens is that you don't focus
so much on what's going tohappen in the next minute, hour,
day, right, and the best CEOsof our time are looking at what
needs to happen this quarter,this year, five years.
How is AI, which is the biggesttopic right now?
(34:52):
How is that going to impactleadership and the company and
the market and the globallandscape years from now?
All right, the same goes for meand what I'm doing.
So when I was originallythinking about, you know, my day
or my week, I was thinkingabout what I needed to do, right
.
But now I have a team that doesa lot of things Right, and
(35:13):
there's a lot of parts to itwhere I'm like, ok, did I give
that team member everything thatthey need?
Oh, they're going to need it onThursday.
I'm just going to do it onMonday, and you start getting to
a place where you start to freeup even more time and then
eventually, what happens isyou're able to look at
leadership and where is thedirection of the company going,
(35:34):
not from like the day or theweek.
You're starting to look atmonth, quarter and so forth.
So how I'm diving into it, Irealize that I am constantly
flawed and I'm always lookingfor new opportunities to improve
, and I screw up so many times,but I'm just transparent about
it and then I learn and then Ikeep on going, and I think that
(35:56):
transparency earns the trust ofthe people that follow me,
whether it's from followers onsocial media, because I'm very
active on LinkedIn or it'speople that actually pay me to
be a coaching consultant forthem.
And I truly believe thatleadership is an honor, it is a
(36:19):
gift, and it can be taken awayif you mess up and you're,
you're, you're, you're not likenot mess up as like a leader,
but like mess up as not leadingyourself.
And so I am constantly findingdifferent ways that I can lead,
and it's not always based aroundbusiness.
Like, I'm leading my son on thedevelopment of faith and he's
really interested in God, so I'mtaking him to church, and my
(36:41):
daughter is really interested inyou know Taekwondo and so then
I'm going to her meeting likeTaekwondo belt tests and stuff,
you know, I'm like investing init and I'm leading a family.
And the same exact thing goeswith body and with spirituality
and with business.
And I think that leadershipcomes down to leading yourself,
(37:03):
but not just in business.
No one wants to be onedimensional and if you do, do
some self-reflection.
Dr. William Attaway (37:12):
We have a journaling exercise just for you
.
Yes, we have a journalingexercise just for you.
Yes, that's so good, and Icould not possibly agree with
you more.
It is a privilege, it is a giftto get to lead, and you are one
person, and if you think youcan compartmentalize one part of
your life off, that's not howyou're wired, that's not how
you're designed.
Every part of you touches everyother part, and to live a life
(37:35):
of integrity means you're livinga life that is integrated,
where every part truly doestouch and influence every other
part, and you're not trying toartificially wall off certain
parts of your life.
I think that's a very healthyway of looking at that, jesse.
Jesse Gilmore (37:50):
Yeah, and one of my mentors he had said you know,
people don't have businessproblems, they have life
problems that are reflected intheir business.
And when I got that, I startedunderstanding that actual, true,
like business, growth comesfrom self-actualization.
So Maslow's hierarchy, you know, you like rise up and you get
(38:14):
to a place where you're startingto become the better version of
yourself.
And a lot of what I do withclients, yeah, it has to do with
systems and, yes, it has to dowith the process and the method
I was talking about.
But in actuality, what'shappening is is you're becoming
a better version of you.
And true leadership is where youstart to unlock those pieces.
(38:34):
You know you start to unlock.
What is that vision?
Where do I want to take thiscompany and why would people
follow me and devote their lifetowards a business that I'm
owning?
That's more than just apaycheck, right?
It's these questions that getpeople to start thinking about
leadership in a different way,and Susan's totally right.
(38:56):
It's these questions that getpeople to start thinking about
leadership in a different way,and Susan's totally right
Everything about going throughour method or business growth or
becoming a better leader comesdown to that mindset and that
transformational part.
I always talk about nichecontrol, not being a
(39:18):
transactional company, but beinga transformational company,
because we're in the business oftransforming people and we just
happen to be really good atworking with agency owners.
Dr. William Attaway (39:24):
That's so good.
You know you've reflected anumber of times in this
conversation how much you are acontinual learner.
I'm just curious is there abook that has made a big
difference in your journey thatyou would recommend to the list,
to the leaders who arelistening?
Hey, if you haven't read this,check it out.
Jesse Gilmore (39:44):
I was going to say my own book.
Dr. William Attaway (39:49):
Which is a great book, by the way.
I finished reading that andthere's so much value in there.
We're going to have a link tothat in the show notes I don't
you.
Jesse Gilmore (39:56):
you asked me a question about which book kind
of unlocks something forleadership and there's not a
very specific book that comes tomind.
And the reason why is because Ithink like I've gone through
about 400 business books andprobably about 100 of them are
leadership oriented, right.
Um, I think in the waybeginning it was like John C
Maxwell books and then it turnedinto some other things and then
(40:20):
I got into organizationalalignment and four disciplines
of execution and then I got intoa bunch of other things.
But when it comes to likeleadership, I think my own
understanding of leadership isreally the combination of all of
them.
So I don't really think thatthere's a very specific book
that kind of stands out.
But I would say everything thatI've talked about so far I've
(40:43):
given an understanding ofexactly how to do that, how to
create that leadership foryourself.
In the book that I've createdand I didn't really hold back
there's like 256 pages worth ofbuilding the systems, the
mindset behind it and things tolook out for, you know, and so
forth.
Dr. William Attaway (41:00):
And I think the value is so present in that
book because of theauthenticity you brought to it,
jesse.
I think the you know thestories that you tell, the
suggestions, the insights thatyou share like these are hard
won.
These are actual examples fromreal people, real lives,
including your own, and I thinkthat's the power that I see when
(41:23):
I was reading through this.
I know our listeners are goingto want to continue to stay in
touch with you, continue tolearn from you and learn more
about what this whole niche andcontrol thing is all about.
What is the best way for themto do that?
Jesse Gilmore (41:38):
Absolutely.
If you're an agency owner,there's two main ways that I can
help you.
First one is if you're lookingfor a new core offer or you know
one of those events or thosemasterclasses kind of stand out
to you, I highly recommendapplying to one of our
masterclasses.
Now, it's not for somebody whodoesn't have five paying clients
(41:58):
or is under $10,000 a month.
Everything that we're doingfrom a strategy component is all
based around six or sevenfigure agencies, and if you're
more than seven figures, it'sgoing to work for you as well.
Eventsnichecontrolcom is like aredirection link that leads
towards whatever monthlymasterclass works out that we
have at that time.
That would be the highest valuething that I could ever give an
(42:22):
agency owner.
Second highest value isobviously the book, and in the
book I don't hold back.
I give you a lot of thingsthere.
On LinkedIn, I'm posting fivedays a week.
I'm super active there.
If you connect with me onLinkedIn, I'm posting, you know,
five days a week, I'm superactive there.
If you connect with me onLinkedIn, I can share different
resources.
We have a bunch of differentresources for agency owners, and
(42:44):
so you can go to linkedincomslash in slash, jesse P Gilmore.
Otherwise, I'm on YouTube.
I'll probably give William,give you a bunch of links that
you can put on there.
But otherwise, if you want tocheck out just
nicheandcontrolcom, we have ourpodcasts, the books on there and
there's probably about fiveother resources I'm not
(43:06):
mentioning right now.
But yeah, we have a lot ofdifferent things that we can
give agency owners.
I love that.
Dr. William Attaway (43:10):
We'll have those links in the show notes
and I really want to encouragepeople to connect with Jesse.
I want to connect you, I wantyou all to connect, because
there's so much value that youare continually dropping there.
I think this is somethingthat's really going to benefit
our listeners.
So listen up, go connect, gotake action on this right now.
Jesse, thank you for being here.
(43:31):
Thank you for sharing sogenerously from what you've
learned so far and how you'vehelped so many other agency
owners.
I can't wait to see what isnext for you.
Jesse Gilmore (43:42):
Me too.
Thank you so much, William.
Appreciate it.
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