June 3, 2025 • 37 mins
What if everything you’ve been told about social media is wrong?
In this episode, I sit down with Katie Brinkley — a social media strategist, author of The Social Shift, and agency founder who scaled her business with a lean content model, smart systems, and a self-led team.
Katie built her agency without becoming a slave to the algorithm. She reveals the Four-Post Strategy that replaces content burnout with a sustainable, consistent visibility system — and she unpacks the leadership shifts that freed her to step out of the day-to-day.
If you’ve been stuck in execution mode, feeling like growth means more hustle, this episode will challenge your assumptions and offer a new way forward.
💡 What You'll Learn:
- Why more content ≠ more growth
- How Katie built a self-led team using one question: “What do you think?”
- How to scale visibility through conversation, not just content
- What it means to truly delegate authority — and why most leaders don’t
- How your social media goal determines your entire strategy
- The anti-hustle strategy that brought her best sales month — during burnout
Books Mentioned:
- The Social Shift by Katie Brinkley
Connect with Katie Brinkley
To learn more about Katie’s strategies, systems, or team, visit https://katiebrinkley.com. There you’ll find her book, podcast, and links to connect across social platforms.
🌟 Check out our podcast sponsor, Competitive Edge Business Consulting, and book your free discovery call with them today at www.CompEdgeConsulting.com 🌟
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
- Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:
Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
- Special Offer:
Get your FREE copy of Catalytic Leadership: 12 Keys to Becoming an Intentional Leader Who Makes a Difference.
Connect with Dr. William Attaway:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. William Attaway (00:00):
I'm so excited today to have Katie
Brinkley on the podcast.
Katie's the author of TheSocial Shift and she's
redefining social mediamarketing with a less is more
philosophy.
With over two decades ofexperience, she innovates with a
unique four-post strategyfostering growth with minimal
posting.
(00:20):
Minimal posting, her platformagnostic approach and journalism
skills empower brands like AT&Tand DirecTV to achieve their
goals efficiently.
She's also the host of theRocky Mountain Marketing Podcast
.
Katie excels in storytelling,guiding clients from
solopreneurs to corporates incapturing their ideal audience
(00:44):
and driving tangible results.
Katie, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Katie Brinkley (00:49):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Intro / Outro (00:55):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the
podcast designed to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:12):
I would love to start with you sharing a
little bit of your story withour listeners, particularly
around your journey and yourdevelopment as a leader.
How did you get started?
Katie Brinkley (01:28):
development as a leader.
How did you get started?
By accident?
Nice, well, and I think that alot of times some of the best
entrepreneurs do stumble intoentrepreneurship.
And for me, I was going to be asports reporter.
That's what I went to schoolfor.
I landed my dream job.
I was a sports reporter rightout of college.
I loved it and then, you know,life has a way of kind of taking
(01:55):
us where we need to go to giveus the skills that we're going
to need for our real job.
So it's you know, here I am ona podcast, I have my own show.
Everything that I learned as asports journalist, I think,
helped me be a better leader.
So I was, like I said, I was asports journalist for the
Broncos and the Rockies.
I loved what I did, and thenSiriusXM came out and everyone
(02:19):
in the radio industry panicked.
So I was one of them and Imoved into marketing and loved
what I did.
I worked for the TV station forthe Rockies, did a lot of ad
buys, I did a lot of scriptwriting, I handled the social
media, and then we were boughtby DirecTV and then we were
(02:39):
bought by AT&T and then, beforeI knew it, I had been relocated
to Atlanta and it's really hardto do live play-by-play for a
sports team when you don't evenlive in the same city.
So this is where I kind of tookit as my all right.
Well, I think that it's time forme to leave.
And I was sitting in my boss'soffice and she said to me she
(03:04):
goes man, katie, you're just sogood at social media and it'd be
really cool to see you find away to get back into radio.
And so I was.
I left her office.
I was like, yeah, what if I,what if I did just do something
with just social media?
And that was almost a decadeago.
And that was almost a decadeago I, with my laptop and a
(03:27):
dream, started working from mycouch and got my first client,
and then I got my second client,and you know it's been a really
fun journey.
But now, you know, I have ateam of 10 and love what I do,
get to be on social media andthink of different strategies,
and I have my podcast andeverything that I learned along
(03:51):
the way I think was just kind ofsetting me up for what I do
today.
Dr. William Attaway (03:55):
You know I love that.
I believe there's no such thingas a wasted experience in our
journey.
You're right, Everything is apart and everything sets you up
for the next chapter.
You know, when I think aboutsocial media, I think about the
conversations I have with somany entrepreneurs who they're
really good at what they do.
But the idea of social mediaand posting consistently and
(04:18):
regularly, which we all know isthe key they just let out that
sigh, that groan, and they'relike, yeah, I'll get to that
eventually.
Yeah, I know I need to do that.
Yeah, I'll get to that.
What advice do you have forpeople like that?
Katie Brinkley (04:35):
You're not alone .
That's good.
No, I mean, I have a socialmedia agency, but I am a
business owner first, like I'mnot just an influencer.
I'm not just an influencer, I'mnot out there to get a whole
bunch of brand deals.
I mean, would it be awesome ifI don't know Incas who?
I wear all their shoes.
It would be amazing if theysaid, katie, we want to pay you
(04:57):
for wearing our shoes, since youwear them anyway.
Yeah, but that's not going tohelp me pay my employees, that's
right, but that's not going tohelp me pay my employees.
Like, that's not you know, andso I think that for me, with I
just you don't need to post somuch, you don't.
You don't need to post so much,you don't need to, you know, be
(05:18):
on every single social mediaplatform.
I'm not on TikTok, you know,and I'm rarely on Instagram,
facebook and LinkedIn.
Those are my jam, so that'swhere I spend my time.
I have my community.
I show up regularly, I create avariety of content there, but I
don't create a ton.
I post maybe three, four timesa week there and it still works
very, very well.
So I think that one of thebiggest things to keep in mind
(05:41):
is nope, we're all adults here,you don't have to do anything.
Don't let anyone tell you whatyou need to do.
The biggest thing is beingconsistent.
So every Monday, I send out aLinkedIn newsletter to my
LinkedIn audience.
Every Monday, if I'm going todo only one post that week, it's
going to be that LinkedInnewsletter because I've created
(06:03):
the consistency and my audienceknows, hey, katie's going to be
that LinkedIn newsletter becauseI've created the consistency
and my audience knows, hey,katie's going to give us some
really valuable information tostart our week.
So create the consistency withyour audience, no matter what
social media platform it's on.
And if you show up 82 times inone month, you know what you got
to show up 82 times again thenext month.
Create something that you canremain consistent with.
Dr. William Attaway (06:24):
Hmm, that is incredibly helpful and
encouraging Because, you know, Ihear so many people and so many
gurus in the space say you know, well, you've got to post.
You know 10 times a day.
You know you've got to post.
You know, on eight differentplatforms, eight different
channels.
Katie Brinkley (06:39):
You want to know a secret?
Yeah, okay.
So in a couple years ago, I wasburnt out.
(07:06):
Burnt out, I you know.
You couldn't pay if Incas cameto me and said, hey, we will pay
you to post about our shoes.
I couldn't do it.
I was out of ideas.
I didn't want to show up, Ididn't want to create content
for strangers on the internet.
I was just burnt out and it wasone of my best sales months
ever.
So how was I able to do that?
Because I don't do paid ads.
Everything I do is organic andit's because I was showing up
and still having conversations,and what I mean by that is
commenting on the right people'sposts.
(07:26):
That's what the platforms want.
Like, if you can't create a tonof content for them, showing up
and just engaging, giving thealgorithm 10 minutes of your
time, that's going to help youtremendously, because you're
commenting on the right people'sposts.
They're going to come back toyour page and be like oh, this,
this is what Katie does.
(07:47):
I like this video.
Oh, this is how I can get intouch with her.
Oh, she has this course.
Oh, she's got the book,whatever.
So it's getting the rightpeople into your sphere, and by
doing good comments, not justsetting it up through a bot or
whatever, actually looking tosee who you're commenting on.
(08:08):
It is an absolute game changer.
Dr. William Attaway (08:10):
I've not heard that before.
That's fascinating.
So often people look at socialmedia and they're like I don't
even know how to measure this.
You know, and the comments thatyou make.
I mean I like that strategy.
I'm just processing that, asyou've said it, and thinking,
wow, that sounds completelydoable.
But the metrics that you use tomeasure matter so much, and so
(08:35):
I know there are so manyso-called vanity metrics that
are a part of social media.
What metrics do you look atthat are a part of social media?
What metrics do you look at,Like, how does an entrepreneur
or a business, how do theyreally measure?
Yeah, this is working when itcomes to their social media
efforts?
Or gosh, it's really not on thethings that-.
Katie Brinkley (08:53):
And I think that it's going to be.
This answer is going to bedifferent for everyone, right?
It depends on what your goal isfrom social media and whether
because for some people it ismore followers, for some people
it's to get to sell books, forsome people, maybe it's to get
more high ticket clientsEveryone's goal from social
(09:17):
media and if you're not postingwith a goal, take a step back
and really think about what itis that you're doing with your
time on social media, becauseposting just a post is a waste
of your time and, honestly, it'sa waste of your audience's time
because they don't really care.
Then there's like oh okay,here's another, you know another
(09:38):
repurposed TikTok video, thanksyou know, and so the last thing
we need is more mediocrecontent.
How can we create content that'sgoing to stop someone scrolling
and be like Katie is talkingdirectly to me yes, I haven't
even voiced this problem out tothe universe and here she is
(10:00):
with the solution, that's.
All that matters is I show upand I've answered that one
person's question, because nowthat person is going to go one
step further with me, dependingon what my goal is from that
post.
So this is where the four-poststrategy comes into play, and
it's a lot of reverseengineering.
Dr. William Attaway (10:21):
So let's talk about that.
The four-post strategy.
What does that look like?
Katie Brinkley (10:25):
Yeah, so it's a lot of reverse engineering.
So what is your goal?
Let's do it for you.
So what are your main socialmedia platforms?
Dr. William Attaway (10:34):
LinkedIn first Okay, great Facebook, okay
yeah, linkedin.
Katie Brinkley (10:39):
We'll talk about LinkedIn.
So LinkedIn and Facebook, thoseare my two platforms too, so
this will be fun.
But if you think about it,linkedin and Facebook both have
very different ways of postingonline.
Yes, you can post a picture,yes, you can post a video, but
on LinkedIn you also have thenewsletter feature, you have the
(11:01):
carousel, so, like the swipableimages I mean there's on
Facebook, then you just have thesingle image with, like, the
different colored back, or thesingle like sentence with a
different colored background.
There's a lot of different waysto create content on these
platforms.
And keep in mind, if theydidn't want you to create
content these different ways,they wouldn't give you the
(11:21):
option.
So you have to be checking thebox with the big guy you know,
with Facebook, with LinkedIn,and be creating a variety of
content.
And also keep in mind too, likeeveryone consumes differently.
I don't watch a ton of YouTubevideos, but do I create YouTube
content?
Absolutely, because I knowthere's a lot of people out
(11:41):
there that don't want to justlisten to my podcast.
They wanna watch it.
And am I doing the same thing?
Yeah, but I gotta tell you myYouTube channel I think I have
one video that's just blown upand I was like, man, why of all
the videos, why is that the onethat's going crazy?
And I mean it's still for thepodcast.
(12:01):
It didn't do that awesome, butit's just killing it over on
YouTube.
It's because of the differentways of people consuming content
.
So just keep in mind thatthere's a variety of ways for
creating content.
There's a variety of ways thatpeople consume content.
All that being said, what isyour goal?
Let's just say you want morepodcast downloads.
(12:22):
Maybe you have an upcominglaunch.
Whatever it is, we'll go withthe podcast downloads because
we're on a podcast.
So you want more people tolisten to this episode.
How are you going to get morepeople to listen to an episode?
It's not by just saying newepisode alert, or Katie
Brinkley's on the pod this week,or showing a short clip of us
(12:44):
talking on here.
It's not going to work, becauseif people wanted to listen to
the podcast, they'd open upSpotify or Apple or whatever and
just click on the podcast.
So how are you going to get theright people raising their hand
saying whoa, whoa, whoa?
There's somebody that owns asocial media agency telling me I
don't not to post on socialmedia.
(13:04):
Tell me more.
Oh, there's an entire owns asocial media agency telling me I
don't not to post on socialmedia.
Tell me more.
Oh, there's an entire episode.
Of course I want to listen.
So think about what your endgoal is first, and how are you
going to get those right peopleto raise their hands?
So more podcast downloads.
The very first post is anawareness post.
This post is designed to makethe right people aware of the
(13:26):
problem.
You're also for awareness,going to post the way that the
algorithm for LinkedIn andFacebook is promoting your
content to strangers on theinternet.
So what I mean by this is whatis so like.
On Instagram reels, those getfound by a bunch of people that
don't follow you.
On LinkedIn polls videos, thoseget found by a lot of people
(13:53):
that don't follow you.
On Facebook, it's the singlesentence with the different
color background those getpushed out into the strangers
feeds right now.
So when I say awareness, I meanit both for making the right
people aware of the problem andthe way that the platform is
pushing you out to make moreawareness about you.
(14:15):
So for this, like if you weregoing to promote this episode on
Facebook and on LinkedIn onLinkedIn, maybe you do a poll
and it just says this is it?
How many hours a week do youspend on social media?
You know one, more than five.
Uh, zero, this is the onlysocial media I'm doing all week,
or you know something like that.
(14:36):
And then on Facebook you say uh, uh, maybe like an unpopular
opinion or a statistic, like 48million pieces of content are
posted to Instagram every dayand you don't need to, and I
don't think you need to postmore than once a week.
(14:57):
Maybe that's your, just yoursentence, like, oh, like, well,
who are you to say that?
And it's just a striveconversation.
Get the right people sayinglike, huh, that's interesting,
or engaging, or liking andhaving an opinion on it.
So you've made them aware.
Both those posts you probablycould have created in the amount
of time that it took me to saythe sentences.
(15:18):
It's very, very fast, maybe 30seconds each, right, and it's
just making the right peopleproblem aware and pushing you
and your content out into theplatform.
Any questions on the awarenessposts?
Dr. William Attaway (15:32):
No, no, that makes sense.
Katie Brinkley (15:34):
So the next post is going to be the elaboration
post.
This is where you elaborate onthe problem that you just made
people problem aware of.
This is where it's really goodto have a LinkedIn newsletter
LinkedIn newsletters if you'renot doing one listener, that is
your homework.
Start a LinkedIn newsletter.
It is one of the best ways toget your best content seen on
(15:59):
social media right now.
Not only does it show up in thefeed, but it also shows up in
people's inboxes, so it is ano-brainer.
Launch a LinkedIn newsletter.
So anyway.
So the elaboration post can be aLinkedIn newsletter On Facebook
.
It could be just a long caption, but this is where you get to
elaborate on the problem thatyou just made people aware of.
(16:19):
So if you have a podcast, itmakes it super easy.
You could take the transcriptfrom this and turn it into a
blog about how there's a fourpost strategy that's actually
going to help you post less andget more reach, more impressions
and better engagement byposting less.
And these are the four thingsthat I sat down with Katie
(16:42):
Brinkley and we talked aboutblah, blah, blah, blah blah.
You can include a link to thepodcast in your LinkedIn
newsletter if you want or youdon't have to, it's totally up
to you.
You're just giving people thatenjoy reading their way of
learning.
Dr. William Attaway (16:57):
I love that .
Katie Brinkley (17:01):
So we've gone through awareness, we've done
elaboration.
Also on Facebook you could dolike a LinkedIn Live and just
kind of talk to people aboutwhat you learned from posting
less or how you overcame it.
The next post is theelaboration post actually is
going to be your most timeconsuming post for the week,
(17:24):
actually is going to be yourmost time-consuming post for the
week.
But again, if you have apodcast thank you AI you can
really crank out thosenewsletters and those articles a
lot faster.
But then the community postthese are the ones that you
should really have the most funwith.
This is what social media wasintended for.
What is your story?
How have you overcome thisproblem?
(17:45):
How have you helped a clientovercome this problem?
And maybe for you you could say, like how posting only three
times a week on my LinkedInboosted my podcast downloads by
(18:07):
500%, and you could just includea screenshot of you or a
picture of you talking in yourmicrophone.
Just click hi, selfie, whatever.
And in there you could say Ithought I needed to post 42
times a week and it was my faultthat I wasn't seeing the
results from my podcast thateveryone else said I should.
Intro / Outro (18:28):
I get great downloads.
Katie Brinkley (18:29):
I was doing this , I was optimizing SEO.
I was putting, you know, avariety of thumbnails out.
I was sharing it.
I was doing everything.
But when I actually took a stepback and stopped talking about
my show, everything changed andshared your story.
And people are going to seethat and they're going to
resonate with you and be likeman he's been where I've been.
You know like he gets it too,like I'm frustrated.
(18:50):
He tried this.
If it worked for him, I couldlet what happens for me.
And then the last post is youraction post asking people to
leave social media, to go onestep further with you.
And, if you think about it, theright people have been seeing
your content all week, thepeople that engaged in your very
first post and had something tosay about you know that crazy
(19:13):
comment about you not showing upon social media so much you
helps them along their journeyand be like, oh, I can trust him
.
Look at all of this informationhe gave me for free.
Look at all this value.
Oh, and now he's.
Oh, I can trust him.
Look at all of this informationhe gave me for free.
Look at all this value.
Oh, and now he's been whereI've been where I'm at.
I really trust this guy.
Wait a second.
You mean to tell me that he hasan entire hour-long podcast
(19:38):
teaching me how I can do what hedid and have success?
How do I listen to this podcast?
Tell me.
And they're ready to leavesocial media.
They're ready to go one stepfurther with you because you've
taken them through this journeywith them.
Dr. William Attaway (19:55):
So good.
There's so much clarity in whatyou just described, katie.
I love that.
I love the flow of it, and Ican only imagine the results
that you have seen clients getwith this.
What are some stories from thatthat you have seen as clients
have implemented this?
Katie Brinkley (20:11):
Yeah, it's been great.
There's been clients that we'vehad that have had like 300
LinkedIn followers're.
They're up to like 7,000.
And I know that followersaren't everything, but because
of this they landed a 10Ksponsor for their podcast, you
know, because now they have thesocial proof, that goes along
(20:34):
like, oh, they've got morefollowers, they got more
downloads, everything.
And this client also was ableto.
He does a quarterly masterclasswhere people come in, pay a
thousand dollars a person tocome and learn from him.
None of this would have beenpossible without him getting his
message out there more andgrowing the show, getting the
sponsors getting more followersand creating the content that
(20:56):
people are like.
Man, if he tells me all thisfor free, what is it like to
give him $1,000 and spend a daywith him learning everything?
Dr. William Attaway (21:05):
That's so good.
Wow, it's interesting.
You mentioned the LinkedInnewsletter and I'm with you.
I think that's one of the leastknown tools on the LinkedIn
platform.
Katie Brinkley (21:19):
I do mine once a week.
I think you should do it atleast once a month.
But I have to say like they'veeven given more insights now for
the LinkedIn newsletter.
You can actually see how manypeople it was delivered to, so
how many emails actually gotsent, what the open rate was.
So you're not just relying onthe algorithm to be like oh, I
(21:41):
think this, you know, katie's7,000 followers will like this
article, maybe, and if no oneengages, oh okay, well, we're
going to stop showing it.
No, they're taking it andthey're putting it in someone's
inbox for you.
Dr. William Attaway (21:55):
So good, you know.
It's so easy to be overwhelmed,you know, by all of this and I
love your strategy because it'ssimple and it's clear and you
know exactly what to do next.
And I can only imagine thatpeople who work with you just
have a giant sigh of relief whenthey know hey, here's somebody
(22:16):
who has the expertise and isbringing that to bear to help my
business to grow.
Katie Brinkley (22:20):
It's.
You know, I think that we noone, really no one became an
entrepreneur to to be, to be onsocial media all the time.
It's really become a necessaryevil.
But it's such a powerful tool,right, the connections that can
happen, the conversations thatcan happen Like some of some of
my closest friends I see only atSocial Media Marketing World
(22:44):
once a year, and but I it'sgreat because, like I saw
Jessica get married, you know,and see all of her pictures,
Then, like I, it feels like aclose friend that I'm, you know,
connected to and you can haveall that with social media.
But we're getting lost in theways of it turning.
(23:05):
It's really turned into anotherNetflix, right, and I don't
know, I don't know about you, Ididn't start my business to be
on social media all the time.
Dr. William Attaway (23:15):
No.
Katie Brinkley (23:16):
Yeah, and I, as you can tell, listener, I'm a
pretty long winded person, likeit's hard for me to get to the
point.
But this is the.
This is the point.
Like we're, we all have ourways of creating content and
showing up and for me,podcasting is that way.
And how can I still buildcommunity and show up and have
(23:39):
and have those relationships andgrow my business?
Well, social media is the way,and I've never done any paid ads
.
I've grown my business, youknow, to a team of 10.
Now I think that it's all bybeing consistent and sharing how
you can help and giving thatvalue.
Dr. William Attaway (23:58):
And that I think is key.
It's you're adding value, youknow, and when people feel like
they have someone who's addingvalue to them, they stick around
and retention goes up.
Tell us about your podcast.
Katie Brinkley (24:12):
Yeah, so Rocky Mountain Marketing is the name
of my podcast.
I show up twice a week.
On Tuesdays, I do interviewswith another digital marketing
expert and we talk about YouTube, strategies, email, you know,
LinkedIn, you name it.
And then, on Thursdays, thoseare my solo episodes.
They're about 10 minutes longand I talk about, you know, like
(24:33):
right now I'm talking about howto fix your like if you get
hacked on Facebook, like whathappens if you get hacked.
So it's kind of a how-to or thelatest trending news in the
world of social media.
Dr. William Attaway (24:46):
I love that .
Very practical, very useful.
So let me ask you this, Katie.
So you have to lead at a higherlevel today than you did five
years ago.
You have a team of 10 who arelooking at you.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
(25:06):
team and your clients and yourbusiness are going to need you
to have three, four, five yearsfrom now?
Katie Brinkley (25:12):
Yeah, this has been.
I found that I was thebottleneck in my business, in my
business, and I had to startremoving myself and empowering
my employees to answer thequestion.
Well, what do you think?
That's been one of the bestresponses that I think has
(25:32):
helped my team be willing tojust answer the question instead
of coming to me for thesolution.
Answer the question instead ofcoming to me for the solution.
Well, what do you think on this?
You know, is this within scope?
Instead of telling them like,no, it's out of scope, go ahead
and say this Can I answer thequestion?
Yes, absolutely, but by me justconsistently saying like well,
(25:56):
what do you think, you know, howis this within?
Asking them the question, it'sallowed them to hold up and
think for themselves and be like, yeah, actually we can go ahead
and do this or no, this isn't,and you know, kind of make their
own decisions, and then come tome with, hey, I wanted to let
you know that we are doing blah,blah, blah, blah, blah.
(26:17):
You know, it's really empoweredthem and it was hard for me to
to figure out what I needed tosay and I'm like why aren't they
just not answering thesequestions, or why am I having to
step in again and I wascreating such a bottleneck
effect because I wasn'tempowering them to step into
(26:37):
their leadership position?
I love that.
Dr. William Attaway (26:39):
So what helps?
So what helped you?
Learn that Like, how do youcontinue to grow?
Katie Brinkley (26:45):
Yeah.
Intro / Outro (26:46):
I learned it the hard way.
It took me way too long.
Yeah, it's a hard way.
Katie Brinkley (26:52):
It's, you know, a tenure education.
I guess the hard way university.
But no it really was trust.
I had to.
One, I had to trust them and belike I trust you, go ahead, you
got it.
But two, enabling them to trustthemselves that they knew all
(27:13):
this.
And for one of my employees,she's been with me for about six
years and she's in a leadershiprole now and there's still
times where I have to say, well,what do you think you know?
And tell her I'm like you'vedone literally every role in
(27:34):
this company.
You know the answer to this,what do you think you know?
And kind of reestablishing thefact that I was like, okay, I've
been here very long, I havedone every single role.
What do I think on this?
Where would I go to find that?
Where is that?
So, and just letting I thinkthat again, like for me it was
(27:58):
to kind of rip off the Band-Aidand not answer their questions,
not be readily available,because I was afraid that things
were just going to collapse.
But then once I was like allright, I have to, just I have to
do this.
It was a little tough for youknow, a couple of weeks, but now
(28:19):
I can go ahead and I can take.
I love cruising and I've beenable to take a cruise and I
don't have to worry about buyingthe internet package.
I know that the company will notburn down while I'm gone.
Dr. William Attaway (28:33):
Well, and I think that what you're
describing there you know,delegating not just tasks and
responsibility, but delegatingauthority is something that a
lot of people struggle with.
But when you do, when you makethat turn and you learn to do
that, it does give you freedomas the owner, it does give you
freedom as the leader to be ableto focus then on doing the
(28:54):
things that only you can do.
And that question that you useis exactly what I teach my
clients.
Don't answer their questions.
Ask them what do you think,what would you do if I wasn't
here?
Katie Brinkley (29:05):
Yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (29:06):
You're either going to get a good,
solid answer and you can affirmthat and say, absolutely, yeah,
do that Perfect.
Or occasionally, you'll get ananswer that's really, really bad
, and then you have to reallywork hard at controlling your
face and say, hmm, okay, I cansee how you got there.
Let me tell you how we do ithere.
(29:28):
I see what you're saying, butlet me tell you how we do it
here.
You coach them and then thenext time they know that and
it's a process of delegatingthat type of authority, so that
you are not the center of thespotter web, where everything
connects to you and where, whenyou're gone, everything falls
apart.
I love that you have found thatfreedom.
(29:49):
I hope our listeners are takingnotes, because they can have it
too.
You just have to do somethingdifferent.
Katie Brinkley (29:55):
I think that that was one.
Like you just said, that wasone of the hardest parts.
Like you just said, that wasone of the hardest parts not
getting the clients, not, youknow, all of the other parts of
being a business owner.
I think that leadership was theone that took me the longest to
really be willing to.
You know, and I think that thatwas like with even my very
(30:17):
first hire.
I was like, well, I can't hireanyone.
No one's going to be able to domy job as good as me.
And it's finding those peoplethat are willing to, well, that
will do their job better thanyou.
That's finding them and thenempowering them when you find
the really good ones, empoweringthem.
Dr. William Attaway (30:33):
So you are always learning.
Intro / Outro (30:36):
And.
Dr. William Attaway (30:36):
I know that because you're a leader who's
leading a growing business and agrowing team, so is there a
book that has made a bigdifference in your journey that
you would recommend to the otherleaders who are listening?
Katie Brinkley (30:47):
Hire early.
Hire before you think you'reready.
Dr. William Attaway (30:51):
Nice.
Katie Brinkley (30:53):
I think that that was one of my biggest
holdups with growing my business.
It took me too long to makethat first hire growing my
business.
It took me too long to makethat first hire and find the
people in your sphere.
Surround yourself with peoplein your sphere that are ahead of
you.
Does that make sense?
Dr. William Attaway (31:14):
Yeah, no, absolutely so.
Katie Brinkley (31:15):
I mean hiring a business coach.
That was one of the gamechangers for my business.
When I hired my first coach andI got to tell you it was
$10,000 for six months and Ilost so much sleep over it and I
was like, what have I done?
Why did I do this?
What did I get talked into?
And if he would have told me,katie, you got to paint yourself
(31:40):
blue every day for six monthsand this will help you grow your
business, I would have done it,like everything he said to do,
because I spent so much money.
I'd never made an investmentlike that before.
And so that's where I was Findit.
Surround yourself with thepeople that are better than you
hire.
Hire coaches to help.
(32:01):
And you know he was with me for, or I was with him for, six
months.
Then I moved on to anotherbusiness coach and then I moved
on.
So I mean there's going to be adifferent coach for a different
season of where you need growthand so um, those are two things
that I think that 100% movedthe needle for me.
Um, I still have a coach and acoach, and it was.
(32:23):
Sometimes it's just nice havingthat like oh, this is what I'm
struggling with and being ableto bounce ideas off of somebody.
Dr. William Attaway (32:30):
A hundred percent.
Having a thinking partnerreally helps you avoid the
loneliness that is inherent inentrepreneurship.
Sometimes Having a thinkingpartner, I love that.
Katie Brinkley (32:40):
Yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (32:41):
Last question I'll ask you If I could
snap my fingers and solve oneproblem in your business right
now.
What would you want thatproblem to be?
Katie Brinkley (32:54):
For me, I think, for if you were to solve one
problem in my business for meright now, we're going through,
you know, we're scaling, we havea lot of new clients, we built
out the systems and now we'reready, Like now we're ready for
(33:14):
the influx of clients, and so Ithink that for me, one of the
hardest parts is that for thepast decade I've been the lead
gen.
People want to work with KatieBrinkley, and so I think it's
been hard for me to do all ofthe sales calls and doing all of
(33:38):
my system of people wanting towork with Next Step Social
because of you know ourframework, because of our
philosophies, and not beingexpecting to see Katie on every
single sales call.
So I mean, like that's.
I think that's where thebottleneck is happening now.
Dr. William Attaway (33:56):
Good, it's not uncommon either.
You know, particularly withfounders.
You know as your team expandsand grows, but everybody still
wants to work with Katie,Everybody still.
You know, particularly withfounders.
You know as your team expandsand grows, but everybody still
wants to work with Katie,everybody still.
You know, you're the, you'rethe face, and I think that that
is a turn.
And if you make that, youbecome you start breathing
rarefied air because so fewpeople will, for two reasons One
(34:17):
, it requires a whole lot moresystematic way of thinking about
business.
But two, there's a little bit ofan ego hit too, and you know, I
think we have to, we have toown that, acknowledge it and say
, wow, but I'm not driving allthe business, I'm not,
everybody's not talking to me,and you got to be okay with that
.
And, and I think that's why alot of business owners won't
(34:38):
make that turn, because there'sthat.
There's that that ego hit, thatdopamine hit of being the one
who does have the answers, whodoes make the magic happen, you
know.
But I can see in you that youhave a real heart and a desire
to grow something bigger thanjust you, and I think you're
going to make it, thank you, Ihope so.
Katie Brinkley (34:59):
I've worked really hard it.
Dr. William Attaway (35:00):
Thank you, I hope so, I've worked really
hard, no doubt, and I know thatthat hasn't stopped.
You know you're not justresting on your laurels now.
You know you built out thestructures and the systems and
you're ready for the nextchapter, and I can't wait to see
what that's going to be.
Katie Brinkley (35:15):
Well, thank you.
Dr. William Attaway (35:16):
I know our listeners are going to want to
stay connected to you andcontinue to learn from you and
more about what next steps up toand how they can get engaged
with you.
What's the best way for them todo that?
Katie Brinkley (35:27):
Yeah, so if you like this podcast, be sure to
check out mine, rocky MountainMarketing.
Give that a listen and connectwith me on social.
If you go to katiebrinkleycom,you can connect with me there,
buy the book, connect onwhichever social your favorite
social channel is.
And yeah, I would love tocontinue the conversation.
Dr. William Attaway (35:47):
We'll have all those links in the show
notes.
Katie, thank you for your timeand for your generosity in
sharing so freely today fromwhat you've learned so far and
how you're helping so many otherpeople.
Katie Brinkley (35:58):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited today to have Katie
Brinkley on the podcast.
Katie's the author of TheSocial Shift and she's
redefining social mediamarketing with a less is more
philosophy.
With over two decades ofexperience, she innovates with a
unique four-post strategyfostering growth with minimal
posting.
(00:20):
Minimal posting, her platformagnostic approach and journalism
skills empower brands like AT&Tand DirecTV to achieve their
goals efficiently.
She's also the host of theRocky Mountain Marketing Podcast
.
Katie excels in storytelling,guiding clients from
solopreneurs to corporates incapturing their ideal audience
(00:44):
and driving tangible results.
Katie, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Katie Brinkley (00:49):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Intro / Outro (00:55):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the
podcast designed to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:12):
I would love to start with you sharing a
little bit of your story withour listeners, particularly
around your journey and yourdevelopment as a leader.
How did you get started?
Katie Brinkley (01:28):
development as a leader.
How did you get started?
By accident?
Nice, well, and I think that alot of times some of the best
entrepreneurs do stumble intoentrepreneurship.
And for me, I was going to be asports reporter.
That's what I went to schoolfor.
I landed my dream job.
I was a sports reporter rightout of college.
I loved it and then, you know,life has a way of kind of taking
(01:55):
us where we need to go to giveus the skills that we're going
to need for our real job.
So it's you know, here I am ona podcast, I have my own show.
Everything that I learned as asports journalist, I think,
helped me be a better leader.
So I was, like I said, I was asports journalist for the
Broncos and the Rockies.
I loved what I did, and thenSiriusXM came out and everyone
(02:19):
in the radio industry panicked.
So I was one of them and Imoved into marketing and loved
what I did.
I worked for the TV station forthe Rockies, did a lot of ad
buys, I did a lot of scriptwriting, I handled the social
media, and then we were boughtby DirecTV and then we were
(02:39):
bought by AT&T and then, beforeI knew it, I had been relocated
to Atlanta and it's really hardto do live play-by-play for a
sports team when you don't evenlive in the same city.
So this is where I kind of tookit as my all right.
Well, I think that it's time forme to leave.
And I was sitting in my boss'soffice and she said to me she
(03:04):
goes man, katie, you're just sogood at social media and it'd be
really cool to see you find away to get back into radio.
And so I was.
I left her office.
I was like, yeah, what if I,what if I did just do something
with just social media?
And that was almost a decadeago.
And that was almost a decadeago I, with my laptop and a
(03:27):
dream, started working from mycouch and got my first client,
and then I got my second client,and you know it's been a really
fun journey.
But now, you know, I have ateam of 10 and love what I do,
get to be on social media andthink of different strategies,
and I have my podcast andeverything that I learned along
(03:51):
the way I think was just kind ofsetting me up for what I do
today.
Dr. William Attaway (03:55):
You know I love that.
I believe there's no such thingas a wasted experience in our
journey.
You're right, Everything is apart and everything sets you up
for the next chapter.
You know, when I think aboutsocial media, I think about the
conversations I have with somany entrepreneurs who they're
really good at what they do.
But the idea of social mediaand posting consistently and
(04:18):
regularly, which we all know isthe key they just let out that
sigh, that groan, and they'relike, yeah, I'll get to that
eventually.
Yeah, I know I need to do that.
Yeah, I'll get to that.
What advice do you have forpeople like that?
Katie Brinkley (04:35):
You're not alone .
That's good.
No, I mean, I have a socialmedia agency, but I am a
business owner first, like I'mnot just an influencer.
I'm not just an influencer, I'mnot out there to get a whole
bunch of brand deals.
I mean, would it be awesome ifI don't know Incas who?
I wear all their shoes.
It would be amazing if theysaid, katie, we want to pay you
(04:57):
for wearing our shoes, since youwear them anyway.
Yeah, but that's not going tohelp me pay my employees, that's
right, but that's not going tohelp me pay my employees.
Like, that's not you know, andso I think that for me, with I
just you don't need to post somuch, you don't.
You don't need to post so much,you don't need to, you know, be
(05:18):
on every single social mediaplatform.
I'm not on TikTok, you know,and I'm rarely on Instagram,
facebook and LinkedIn.
Those are my jam, so that'swhere I spend my time.
I have my community.
I show up regularly, I create avariety of content there, but I
don't create a ton.
I post maybe three, four timesa week there and it still works
very, very well.
So I think that one of thebiggest things to keep in mind
(05:41):
is nope, we're all adults here,you don't have to do anything.
Don't let anyone tell you whatyou need to do.
The biggest thing is beingconsistent.
So every Monday, I send out aLinkedIn newsletter to my
LinkedIn audience.
Every Monday, if I'm going todo only one post that week, it's
going to be that LinkedInnewsletter because I've created
(06:03):
the consistency and my audienceknows, hey, katie's going to be
that LinkedIn newsletter becauseI've created the consistency
and my audience knows, hey,katie's going to give us some
really valuable information tostart our week.
So create the consistency withyour audience, no matter what
social media platform it's on.
And if you show up 82 times inone month, you know what you got
to show up 82 times again thenext month.
Create something that you canremain consistent with.
Dr. William Attaway (06:24):
Hmm, that is incredibly helpful and
encouraging Because, you know, Ihear so many people and so many
gurus in the space say you know, well, you've got to post.
You know 10 times a day.
You know you've got to post.
You know, on eight differentplatforms, eight different
channels.
Katie Brinkley (06:39):
You want to know a secret?
Yeah, okay.
So in a couple years ago, I wasburnt out.
(07:06):
Burnt out, I you know.
You couldn't pay if Incas cameto me and said, hey, we will pay
you to post about our shoes.
I couldn't do it.
I was out of ideas.
I didn't want to show up, Ididn't want to create content
for strangers on the internet.
I was just burnt out and it wasone of my best sales months
ever.
So how was I able to do that?
Because I don't do paid ads.
Everything I do is organic andit's because I was showing up
and still having conversations,and what I mean by that is
commenting on the right people'sposts.
(07:26):
That's what the platforms want.
Like, if you can't create a tonof content for them, showing up
and just engaging, giving thealgorithm 10 minutes of your
time, that's going to help youtremendously, because you're
commenting on the right people'sposts.
They're going to come back toyour page and be like oh, this,
this is what Katie does.
(07:47):
I like this video.
Oh, this is how I can get intouch with her.
Oh, she has this course.
Oh, she's got the book,whatever.
So it's getting the rightpeople into your sphere, and by
doing good comments, not justsetting it up through a bot or
whatever, actually looking tosee who you're commenting on.
(08:08):
It is an absolute game changer.
Dr. William Attaway (08:10):
I've not heard that before.
That's fascinating.
So often people look at socialmedia and they're like I don't
even know how to measure this.
You know, and the comments thatyou make.
I mean I like that strategy.
I'm just processing that, asyou've said it, and thinking,
wow, that sounds completelydoable.
But the metrics that you use tomeasure matter so much, and so
(08:35):
I know there are so manyso-called vanity metrics that
are a part of social media.
What metrics do you look atthat are a part of social media?
What metrics do you look at,Like, how does an entrepreneur
or a business, how do theyreally measure?
Yeah, this is working when itcomes to their social media
efforts?
Or gosh, it's really not on thethings that-.
Katie Brinkley (08:53):
And I think that it's going to be.
This answer is going to bedifferent for everyone, right?
It depends on what your goal isfrom social media and whether
because for some people it ismore followers, for some people
it's to get to sell books, forsome people, maybe it's to get
more high ticket clientsEveryone's goal from social
(09:17):
media and if you're not postingwith a goal, take a step back
and really think about what itis that you're doing with your
time on social media, becauseposting just a post is a waste
of your time and, honestly, it'sa waste of your audience's time
because they don't really care.
Then there's like oh okay,here's another, you know another
(09:38):
repurposed TikTok video, thanksyou know, and so the last thing
we need is more mediocrecontent.
How can we create content that'sgoing to stop someone scrolling
and be like Katie is talkingdirectly to me yes, I haven't
even voiced this problem out tothe universe and here she is
(10:00):
with the solution, that's.
All that matters is I show upand I've answered that one
person's question, because nowthat person is going to go one
step further with me, dependingon what my goal is from that
post.
So this is where the four-poststrategy comes into play, and
it's a lot of reverseengineering.
Dr. William Attaway (10:21):
So let's talk about that.
The four-post strategy.
What does that look like?
Katie Brinkley (10:25):
Yeah, so it's a lot of reverse engineering.
So what is your goal?
Let's do it for you.
So what are your main socialmedia platforms?
Dr. William Attaway (10:34):
LinkedIn first Okay, great Facebook, okay
yeah, linkedin.
Katie Brinkley (10:39):
We'll talk about LinkedIn.
So LinkedIn and Facebook, thoseare my two platforms too, so
this will be fun.
But if you think about it,linkedin and Facebook both have
very different ways of postingonline.
Yes, you can post a picture,yes, you can post a video, but
on LinkedIn you also have thenewsletter feature, you have the
(11:01):
carousel, so, like the swipableimages I mean there's on
Facebook, then you just have thesingle image with, like, the
different colored back, or thesingle like sentence with a
different colored background.
There's a lot of different waysto create content on these
platforms.
And keep in mind, if theydidn't want you to create
content these different ways,they wouldn't give you the
(11:21):
option.
So you have to be checking thebox with the big guy you know,
with Facebook, with LinkedIn,and be creating a variety of
content.
And also keep in mind too, likeeveryone consumes differently.
I don't watch a ton of YouTubevideos, but do I create YouTube
content?
Absolutely, because I knowthere's a lot of people out
(11:41):
there that don't want to justlisten to my podcast.
They wanna watch it.
And am I doing the same thing?
Yeah, but I gotta tell you myYouTube channel I think I have
one video that's just blown upand I was like, man, why of all
the videos, why is that the onethat's going crazy?
And I mean it's still for thepodcast.
(12:01):
It didn't do that awesome, butit's just killing it over on
YouTube.
It's because of the differentways of people consuming content
.
So just keep in mind thatthere's a variety of ways for
creating content.
There's a variety of ways thatpeople consume content.
All that being said, what isyour goal?
Let's just say you want morepodcast downloads.
(12:22):
Maybe you have an upcominglaunch.
Whatever it is, we'll go withthe podcast downloads because
we're on a podcast.
So you want more people tolisten to this episode.
How are you going to get morepeople to listen to an episode?
It's not by just saying newepisode alert, or Katie
Brinkley's on the pod this week,or showing a short clip of us
(12:44):
talking on here.
It's not going to work, becauseif people wanted to listen to
the podcast, they'd open upSpotify or Apple or whatever and
just click on the podcast.
So how are you going to get theright people raising their hand
saying whoa, whoa, whoa?
There's somebody that owns asocial media agency telling me I
don't not to post on socialmedia.
(13:04):
Tell me more.
Oh, there's an entire owns asocial media agency telling me I
don't not to post on socialmedia.
Tell me more.
Oh, there's an entire episode.
Of course I want to listen.
So think about what your endgoal is first, and how are you
going to get those right peopleto raise their hands?
So more podcast downloads.
The very first post is anawareness post.
This post is designed to makethe right people aware of the
(13:26):
problem.
You're also for awareness,going to post the way that the
algorithm for LinkedIn andFacebook is promoting your
content to strangers on theinternet.
So what I mean by this is whatis so like.
On Instagram reels, those getfound by a bunch of people that
don't follow you.
On LinkedIn polls videos, thoseget found by a lot of people
(13:53):
that don't follow you.
On Facebook, it's the singlesentence with the different
color background those getpushed out into the strangers
feeds right now.
So when I say awareness, I meanit both for making the right
people aware of the problem andthe way that the platform is
pushing you out to make moreawareness about you.
(14:15):
So for this, like if you weregoing to promote this episode on
Facebook and on LinkedIn onLinkedIn, maybe you do a poll
and it just says this is it?
How many hours a week do youspend on social media?
You know one, more than five.
Uh, zero, this is the onlysocial media I'm doing all week,
or you know something like that.
(14:36):
And then on Facebook you say uh, uh, maybe like an unpopular
opinion or a statistic, like 48million pieces of content are
posted to Instagram every dayand you don't need to, and I
don't think you need to postmore than once a week.
(14:57):
Maybe that's your, just yoursentence, like, oh, like, well,
who are you to say that?
And it's just a striveconversation.
Get the right people sayinglike, huh, that's interesting,
or engaging, or liking andhaving an opinion on it.
So you've made them aware.
Both those posts you probablycould have created in the amount
of time that it took me to saythe sentences.
(15:18):
It's very, very fast, maybe 30seconds each, right, and it's
just making the right peopleproblem aware and pushing you
and your content out into theplatform.
Any questions on the awarenessposts?
Dr. William Attaway (15:32):
No, no, that makes sense.
Katie Brinkley (15:34):
So the next post is going to be the elaboration
post.
This is where you elaborate onthe problem that you just made
people problem aware of.
This is where it's really goodto have a LinkedIn newsletter
LinkedIn newsletters if you'renot doing one listener, that is
your homework.
Start a LinkedIn newsletter.
It is one of the best ways toget your best content seen on
(15:59):
social media right now.
Not only does it show up in thefeed, but it also shows up in
people's inboxes, so it is ano-brainer.
Launch a LinkedIn newsletter.
So anyway.
So the elaboration post can be aLinkedIn newsletter On Facebook
.
It could be just a long caption, but this is where you get to
elaborate on the problem thatyou just made people aware of.
(16:19):
So if you have a podcast, itmakes it super easy.
You could take the transcriptfrom this and turn it into a
blog about how there's a fourpost strategy that's actually
going to help you post less andget more reach, more impressions
and better engagement byposting less.
And these are the four thingsthat I sat down with Katie
(16:42):
Brinkley and we talked aboutblah, blah, blah, blah blah.
You can include a link to thepodcast in your LinkedIn
newsletter if you want or youdon't have to, it's totally up
to you.
You're just giving people thatenjoy reading their way of
learning.
Dr. William Attaway (16:57):
I love that .
Katie Brinkley (17:01):
So we've gone through awareness, we've done
elaboration.
Also on Facebook you could dolike a LinkedIn Live and just
kind of talk to people aboutwhat you learned from posting
less or how you overcame it.
The next post is theelaboration post actually is
going to be your most timeconsuming post for the week,
(17:24):
actually is going to be yourmost time-consuming post for the
week.
But again, if you have apodcast thank you AI you can
really crank out thosenewsletters and those articles a
lot faster.
But then the community postthese are the ones that you
should really have the most funwith.
This is what social media wasintended for.
What is your story?
How have you overcome thisproblem?
(17:45):
How have you helped a clientovercome this problem?
And maybe for you you could say, like how posting only three
times a week on my LinkedInboosted my podcast downloads by
(18:07):
500%, and you could just includea screenshot of you or a
picture of you talking in yourmicrophone.
Just click hi, selfie, whatever.
And in there you could say Ithought I needed to post 42
times a week and it was my faultthat I wasn't seeing the
results from my podcast thateveryone else said I should.
Intro / Outro (18:28):
I get great downloads.
Katie Brinkley (18:29):
I was doing this , I was optimizing SEO.
I was putting, you know, avariety of thumbnails out.
I was sharing it.
I was doing everything.
But when I actually took a stepback and stopped talking about
my show, everything changed andshared your story.
And people are going to seethat and they're going to
resonate with you and be likeman he's been where I've been.
You know like he gets it too,like I'm frustrated.
(18:50):
He tried this.
If it worked for him, I couldlet what happens for me.
And then the last post is youraction post asking people to
leave social media, to go onestep further with you.
And, if you think about it, theright people have been seeing
your content all week, thepeople that engaged in your very
first post and had something tosay about you know that crazy
(19:13):
comment about you not showing upon social media so much you
helps them along their journeyand be like, oh, I can trust him
.
Look at all of this informationhe gave me for free.
Look at all this value.
Oh, and now he's.
Oh, I can trust him.
Look at all of this informationhe gave me for free.
Look at all this value.
Oh, and now he's been whereI've been where I'm at.
I really trust this guy.
Wait a second.
You mean to tell me that he hasan entire hour-long podcast
(19:38):
teaching me how I can do what hedid and have success?
How do I listen to this podcast?
Tell me.
And they're ready to leavesocial media.
They're ready to go one stepfurther with you because you've
taken them through this journeywith them.
Dr. William Attaway (19:55):
So good.
There's so much clarity in whatyou just described, katie.
I love that.
I love the flow of it, and Ican only imagine the results
that you have seen clients getwith this.
What are some stories from thatthat you have seen as clients
have implemented this?
Katie Brinkley (20:11):
Yeah, it's been great.
There's been clients that we'vehad that have had like 300
LinkedIn followers're.
They're up to like 7,000.
And I know that followersaren't everything, but because
of this they landed a 10Ksponsor for their podcast, you
know, because now they have thesocial proof, that goes along
(20:34):
like, oh, they've got morefollowers, they got more
downloads, everything.
And this client also was ableto.
He does a quarterly masterclasswhere people come in, pay a
thousand dollars a person tocome and learn from him.
None of this would have beenpossible without him getting his
message out there more andgrowing the show, getting the
sponsors getting more followersand creating the content that
(20:56):
people are like.
Man, if he tells me all thisfor free, what is it like to
give him $1,000 and spend a daywith him learning everything?
Dr. William Attaway (21:05):
That's so good.
Wow, it's interesting.
You mentioned the LinkedInnewsletter and I'm with you.
I think that's one of the leastknown tools on the LinkedIn
platform.
Katie Brinkley (21:19):
I do mine once a week.
I think you should do it atleast once a month.
But I have to say like they'veeven given more insights now for
the LinkedIn newsletter.
You can actually see how manypeople it was delivered to, so
how many emails actually gotsent, what the open rate was.
So you're not just relying onthe algorithm to be like oh, I
(21:41):
think this, you know, katie's7,000 followers will like this
article, maybe, and if no oneengages, oh okay, well, we're
going to stop showing it.
No, they're taking it andthey're putting it in someone's
inbox for you.
Dr. William Attaway (21:55):
So good, you know.
It's so easy to be overwhelmed,you know, by all of this and I
love your strategy because it'ssimple and it's clear and you
know exactly what to do next.
And I can only imagine thatpeople who work with you just
have a giant sigh of relief whenthey know hey, here's somebody
(22:16):
who has the expertise and isbringing that to bear to help my
business to grow.
Katie Brinkley (22:20):
It's.
You know, I think that we noone, really no one became an
entrepreneur to to be, to be onsocial media all the time.
It's really become a necessaryevil.
But it's such a powerful tool,right, the connections that can
happen, the conversations thatcan happen Like some of some of
my closest friends I see only atSocial Media Marketing World
(22:44):
once a year, and but I it'sgreat because, like I saw
Jessica get married, you know,and see all of her pictures,
Then, like I, it feels like aclose friend that I'm, you know,
connected to and you can haveall that with social media.
But we're getting lost in theways of it turning.
(23:05):
It's really turned into anotherNetflix, right, and I don't
know, I don't know about you, Ididn't start my business to be
on social media all the time.
Dr. William Attaway (23:15):
No.
Katie Brinkley (23:16):
Yeah, and I, as you can tell, listener, I'm a
pretty long winded person, likeit's hard for me to get to the
point.
But this is the.
This is the point.
Like we're, we all have ourways of creating content and
showing up and for me,podcasting is that way.
And how can I still buildcommunity and show up and have
(23:39):
and have those relationships andgrow my business?
Well, social media is the way,and I've never done any paid ads
.
I've grown my business, youknow, to a team of 10.
Now I think that it's all bybeing consistent and sharing how
you can help and giving thatvalue.
Dr. William Attaway (23:58):
And that I think is key.
It's you're adding value, youknow, and when people feel like
they have someone who's addingvalue to them, they stick around
and retention goes up.
Tell us about your podcast.
Katie Brinkley (24:12):
Yeah, so Rocky Mountain Marketing is the name
of my podcast.
I show up twice a week.
On Tuesdays, I do interviewswith another digital marketing
expert and we talk about YouTube, strategies, email, you know,
LinkedIn, you name it.
And then, on Thursdays, thoseare my solo episodes.
They're about 10 minutes longand I talk about, you know, like
(24:33):
right now I'm talking about howto fix your like if you get
hacked on Facebook, like whathappens if you get hacked.
So it's kind of a how-to or thelatest trending news in the
world of social media.
Dr. William Attaway (24:46):
I love that .
Very practical, very useful.
So let me ask you this, Katie.
So you have to lead at a higherlevel today than you did five
years ago.
You have a team of 10 who arelooking at you.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
(25:06):
team and your clients and yourbusiness are going to need you
to have three, four, five yearsfrom now?
Katie Brinkley (25:12):
Yeah, this has been.
I found that I was thebottleneck in my business, in my
business, and I had to startremoving myself and empowering
my employees to answer thequestion.
Well, what do you think?
That's been one of the bestresponses that I think has
(25:32):
helped my team be willing tojust answer the question instead
of coming to me for thesolution.
Answer the question instead ofcoming to me for the solution.
Well, what do you think on this?
You know, is this within scope?
Instead of telling them like,no, it's out of scope, go ahead
and say this Can I answer thequestion?
Yes, absolutely, but by me justconsistently saying like well,
(25:56):
what do you think, you know, howis this within?
Asking them the question, it'sallowed them to hold up and
think for themselves and be like, yeah, actually we can go ahead
and do this or no, this isn't,and you know, kind of make their
own decisions, and then come tome with, hey, I wanted to let
you know that we are doing blah,blah, blah, blah, blah.
(26:17):
You know, it's really empoweredthem and it was hard for me to
to figure out what I needed tosay and I'm like why aren't they
just not answering thesequestions, or why am I having to
step in again and I wascreating such a bottleneck
effect because I wasn'tempowering them to step into
(26:37):
their leadership position?
I love that.
Dr. William Attaway (26:39):
So what helps?
So what helped you?
Learn that Like, how do youcontinue to grow?
Katie Brinkley (26:45):
Yeah.
Intro / Outro (26:46):
I learned it the hard way.
It took me way too long.
Yeah, it's a hard way.
Katie Brinkley (26:52):
It's, you know, a tenure education.
I guess the hard way university.
But no it really was trust.
I had to.
One, I had to trust them and belike I trust you, go ahead, you
got it.
But two, enabling them to trustthemselves that they knew all
(27:13):
this.
And for one of my employees,she's been with me for about six
years and she's in a leadershiprole now and there's still
times where I have to say, well,what do you think you know?
And tell her I'm like you'vedone literally every role in
(27:34):
this company.
You know the answer to this,what do you think you know?
And kind of reestablishing thefact that I was like, okay, I've
been here very long, I havedone every single role.
What do I think on this?
Where would I go to find that?
Where is that?
So, and just letting I thinkthat again, like for me it was
(27:58):
to kind of rip off the Band-Aidand not answer their questions,
not be readily available,because I was afraid that things
were just going to collapse.
But then once I was like allright, I have to, just I have to
do this.
It was a little tough for youknow, a couple of weeks, but now
(28:19):
I can go ahead and I can take.
I love cruising and I've beenable to take a cruise and I
don't have to worry about buyingthe internet package.
I know that the company will notburn down while I'm gone.
Dr. William Attaway (28:33):
Well, and I think that what you're
describing there you know,delegating not just tasks and
responsibility, but delegatingauthority is something that a
lot of people struggle with.
But when you do, when you makethat turn and you learn to do
that, it does give you freedomas the owner, it does give you
freedom as the leader to be ableto focus then on doing the
(28:54):
things that only you can do.
And that question that you useis exactly what I teach my
clients.
Don't answer their questions.
Ask them what do you think,what would you do if I wasn't
here?
Katie Brinkley (29:05):
Yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (29:06):
You're either going to get a good,
solid answer and you can affirmthat and say, absolutely, yeah,
do that Perfect.
Or occasionally, you'll get ananswer that's really, really bad
, and then you have to reallywork hard at controlling your
face and say, hmm, okay, I cansee how you got there.
Let me tell you how we do ithere.
(29:28):
I see what you're saying, butlet me tell you how we do it
here.
You coach them and then thenext time they know that and
it's a process of delegatingthat type of authority, so that
you are not the center of thespotter web, where everything
connects to you and where, whenyou're gone, everything falls
apart.
I love that you have found thatfreedom.
(29:49):
I hope our listeners are takingnotes, because they can have it
too.
You just have to do somethingdifferent.
Katie Brinkley (29:55):
I think that that was one.
Like you just said, that wasone of the hardest parts.
Like you just said, that wasone of the hardest parts not
getting the clients, not, youknow, all of the other parts of
being a business owner.
I think that leadership was theone that took me the longest to
really be willing to.
You know, and I think that thatwas like with even my very
(30:17):
first hire.
I was like, well, I can't hireanyone.
No one's going to be able to domy job as good as me.
And it's finding those peoplethat are willing to, well, that
will do their job better thanyou.
That's finding them and thenempowering them when you find
the really good ones, empoweringthem.
Dr. William Attaway (30:33):
So you are always learning.
Intro / Outro (30:36):
And.
Dr. William Attaway (30:36):
I know that because you're a leader who's
leading a growing business and agrowing team, so is there a
book that has made a bigdifference in your journey that
you would recommend to the otherleaders who are listening?
Katie Brinkley (30:47):
Hire early.
Hire before you think you'reready.
Dr. William Attaway (30:51):
Nice.
Katie Brinkley (30:53):
I think that that was one of my biggest
holdups with growing my business.
It took me too long to makethat first hire growing my
business.
It took me too long to makethat first hire and find the
people in your sphere.
Surround yourself with peoplein your sphere that are ahead of
you.
Does that make sense?
Dr. William Attaway (31:14):
Yeah, no, absolutely so.
Katie Brinkley (31:15):
I mean hiring a business coach.
That was one of the gamechangers for my business.
When I hired my first coach andI got to tell you it was
$10,000 for six months and Ilost so much sleep over it and I
was like, what have I done?
Why did I do this?
What did I get talked into?
And if he would have told me,katie, you got to paint yourself
(31:40):
blue every day for six monthsand this will help you grow your
business, I would have done it,like everything he said to do,
because I spent so much money.
I'd never made an investmentlike that before.
And so that's where I was Findit.
Surround yourself with thepeople that are better than you
hire.
Hire coaches to help.
(32:01):
And you know he was with me for, or I was with him for, six
months.
Then I moved on to anotherbusiness coach and then I moved
on.
So I mean there's going to be adifferent coach for a different
season of where you need growthand so um, those are two things
that I think that 100% movedthe needle for me.
Um, I still have a coach and acoach, and it was.
(32:23):
Sometimes it's just nice havingthat like oh, this is what I'm
struggling with and being ableto bounce ideas off of somebody.
Dr. William Attaway (32:30):
A hundred percent.
Having a thinking partnerreally helps you avoid the
loneliness that is inherent inentrepreneurship.
Sometimes Having a thinkingpartner, I love that.
Katie Brinkley (32:40):
Yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (32:41):
Last question I'll ask you If I could
snap my fingers and solve oneproblem in your business right
now.
What would you want thatproblem to be?
Katie Brinkley (32:54):
For me, I think, for if you were to solve one
problem in my business for meright now, we're going through,
you know, we're scaling, we havea lot of new clients, we built
out the systems and now we'reready, Like now we're ready for
(33:14):
the influx of clients, and so Ithink that for me, one of the
hardest parts is that for thepast decade I've been the lead
gen.
People want to work with KatieBrinkley, and so I think it's
been hard for me to do all ofthe sales calls and doing all of
(33:38):
my system of people wanting towork with Next Step Social
because of you know ourframework, because of our
philosophies, and not beingexpecting to see Katie on every
single sales call.
So I mean, like that's.
I think that's where thebottleneck is happening now.
Dr. William Attaway (33:56):
Good, it's not uncommon either.
You know, particularly withfounders.
You know as your team expandsand grows, but everybody still
wants to work with Katie,Everybody still.
You know, particularly withfounders.
You know as your team expandsand grows, but everybody still
wants to work with Katie,everybody still.
You know, you're the, you'rethe face, and I think that that
is a turn.
And if you make that, youbecome you start breathing
rarefied air because so fewpeople will, for two reasons One
(34:17):
, it requires a whole lot moresystematic way of thinking about
business.
But two, there's a little bit ofan ego hit too, and you know, I
think we have to, we have toown that, acknowledge it and say
, wow, but I'm not driving allthe business, I'm not,
everybody's not talking to me,and you got to be okay with that
.
And, and I think that's why alot of business owners won't
(34:38):
make that turn, because there'sthat.
There's that that ego hit, thatdopamine hit of being the one
who does have the answers, whodoes make the magic happen, you
know.
But I can see in you that youhave a real heart and a desire
to grow something bigger thanjust you, and I think you're
going to make it, thank you, Ihope so.
Katie Brinkley (34:59):
I've worked really hard it.
Dr. William Attaway (35:00):
Thank you, I hope so, I've worked really
hard, no doubt, and I know thatthat hasn't stopped.
You know you're not justresting on your laurels now.
You know you built out thestructures and the systems and
you're ready for the nextchapter, and I can't wait to see
what that's going to be.
Katie Brinkley (35:15):
Well, thank you.
Dr. William Attaway (35:16):
I know our listeners are going to want to
stay connected to you andcontinue to learn from you and
more about what next steps up toand how they can get engaged
with you.
What's the best way for them todo that?
Katie Brinkley (35:27):
Yeah, so if you like this podcast, be sure to
check out mine, rocky MountainMarketing.
Give that a listen and connectwith me on social.
If you go to katiebrinkleycom,you can connect with me there,
buy the book, connect onwhichever social your favorite
social channel is.
And yeah, I would love tocontinue the conversation.
Dr. William Attaway (35:47):
We'll have all those links in the show
notes.
Katie, thank you for your timeand for your generosity in
sharing so freely today fromwhat you've learned so far and
how you're helping so many otherpeople.
Katie Brinkley (35:58):
Thank you so much for having me.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.