September 24, 2024 • 42 mins
Struggling to juggle the demands of work and family while trying to lead effectively? In this episode, I’m thrilled to chat with Josiah Fogle, a dynamic author and entrepreneur who’s mastered the art of retaining 100% of his team. Josiah’s story—from his upbringing in the Philippines to becoming a leading figure in his field—illustrates the profound impact of mentorship, resilience, and creating a supportive work culture.
Join us as we explore the vital balance between meaningful relationships and family time. Josiah’s journey with Southwestern Advantage and his leadership strategies reveal how prioritizing personal growth and team collaboration drives exceptional results.
We also delve into insights from Cameron Harreld's "Second in Command," offering valuable perspectives on how to support and complement the primary leader’s strengths. Discover how setting clear family and business goals can guide your decisions and actions, fostering both personal and professional success.
Tune in to learn how intentional leadership and balance can elevate your effectiveness at work and enrich your personal life.
Connect with Josiah Fogle:
To connect with Josiah Fogle, email him directly at josiahfogle@gmail.com. For more information on ghostwriting, collaborative writing, or to discuss your book ideas, visit his website at mystorybuilders.com, where you can schedule a call with his team.
Books Mentioned:
- Second in Command by Cameron Harreld
- Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss
- Crucial Conversations by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, and Al Switzler
- How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
- Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:
Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
- Special Offer:
Get your FREE copy of Catalytic Leadership: 12 Keys to Becoming an Intentional Leader Who Makes a Difference.
Connect with Dr. William Attaway:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. William Attaway (00:00):
I'm excited today that Josiah Fogle is on
the podcast.
Josiah is an author andentrepreneur who believes in
uncovering opportunities withinevery person and situation.
With a genuine passion forcoaching and inspiring other
people, he dedicates himself tohelping individuals to achieve
(00:20):
their goals.
Drawn from a diverse range ofexperiences across various
business industries, Josiah hascultivated a unique perspective
on what it takes to succeed asan entrepreneur.
Driven by an insatiable lovefor learning, Josiah continually
seeks personal growth andimprovement.
His unwavering commitment toprogress is only matched by his
(00:42):
desire to motivate and coachthose around him, guiding them
toward reaching their ownaspirations.
A self-proclaimed Renaissanceman, Josiah's dedication extends
to his own family, where heleads by example for his three
strapping boys, his littleprincess and his all-star wife.
Josiah, I'm so glad you're here.
(01:02):
Thanks for being on the show.
Intro / Outro (01:11):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the
podcast designed to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:23):
I would love to start with you sharing a
little bit of your story withour listeners, particularly
around your journey and yourdevelopment as a leader.
How did you get started?
Josiah Fogle (01:34):
Yeah, so I mean to go all the way back.
I had a.
Really my dad's had a reallystrong example for me growing up
.
He was a missionary in thePhilippines and one of the
things like I have a very vividmemory of one.
We would do this a lot, but oneevening in particular where my
(01:56):
dad liked he was a, he was ateacher and so he, you know, was
not he didn't use his hands allthe time, but he loved to use
his hands when he could and likefor, for manual labor and
things like that.
And so we were on this, thismassive uh campground that
always had work to do and, um,always needed, you know, needed
gravel on the roads, needed, youknow, things chopped down,
(02:18):
needed, you know, all thesedifferent manual tasks that
there were people to do it.
But he always was like cool,I'm done with my studies, I'm
done with preparing, I'm goingto go do this.
And he would always invite, youknow, me or my siblings.
I remember one evening inparticular, um, my dad was like
you want to come, and I was likesure, and so we go down and
(02:41):
we're shoveling from thismassive rock pile and we're, you
know, putting it in awheelbarrow, then going down the
road, filling in a pothole, andthen we go back, you know, put
it in, and then it's, it'sgetting dark.
I'm like it's like, you know,six o'clock ish, and in the
Philippines it's always dark atlike five thirty.
It's like it's it's light, fivethirty, it's dark, and 5.30,
(03:06):
it's dark, and so it's likestarting to get dark out and I'm
like I'm hungry, I'm tired, andmy dad's still going.
I'm like, dad, are we gonna?
Are we gonna go?
Like, are we gonna go back tothe house.
It's almost dinner time andhe's like, no, there's, there's
still more, still more potholes,and and we, we worked there for
another probably about half anhour.
It was like we could barelylike until we could really not
even see what we were doing.
Wow, it's that that for me.
I remember that and I'm likeman that's.
(03:29):
That was such a powerfulteaching moment that he used um
for me and uh, yeah, so that'skind of where it started.
And then it sort of evolved.
Um, a mentor of mine told me Ishould do this, this crazy
internship thing calledSouthwestern Advantage.
Um, and this is where I kind ofgot my.
(03:53):
I cut my teeth on sales.
So I had no idea what it was.
But a mentor of mine saidyou're going to do it, it's
going to, you're going to,you're going to learn a lot,
you're going to grow a lot,you'll make some money to pay
for college.
And I was like cool, I like allthose things, and so I Win-win.
And so I reached out to thecompany and kind of submitted my
information which they don'treally get a lot of those
because it's a door-to-doorsales thing and I got a call
(04:16):
from one of their area directorsand basically was like, hey,
I'm doing it.
And he was like trying to sellme on it, I'm like, dude, dude,
I'm good, I'm, I'm, I'm doing it.
And he was like trying to sellme on it.
I'm like, dude, dude, I'm, I'mgood, I, I'm in, I want to do it
.
He's like, are you sure it waslike it was, it was kind of
weird, but anyways, Um, but thatended up being a three year
long, uh venture that I did whenI was in college.
(04:39):
That kind of taught me, um,perseverance, how to sell, how
to take rejection.
You know, when you knock onover 20,000 doors, you learn a
little bit, just a bit.
So, yeah, I think that was abig part of my learning too.
(04:59):
A big part of my learning too.
And then I think the biggest,another big thing there was when
I, after my first summerselling books door to door
through Southwestern, Irecruited a team my second year
and my third year and I actuallygot an award for for this, that
(05:22):
kind of unheard of that 100% ofmy team both years stayed the
whole summer.
Normally the retention rate is30% at highest.
I had 100% both years andpeople were like what are you
doing.
I'm just like I don't know.
I'm just loving on people, I'mjust loving on my team.
(05:43):
I want them to know that I careand that I'm going to help them
.
You know, no matter if theyhave a great sales day, no
matter if they have a bad salesday.
I'm like I'm here to serve you,I'm here to support you, and it
was powerful and I look back onthat.
I don't think I realized howstrange, how, um, how strange
(06:06):
that was in the in the time,cause it just felt normal, um,
and so it kind of it's been,it's been a help, it's been a
helpful thing for me to reflecton um further in my career now
of like, okay, cool, justremember that that was what you
did.
There was really powerful, um,and so it kind of is is a
(06:29):
guiding rock of like you know,love the people you're with and
make them feel like they're.
You know, no matter how they'redoing that you care.
Now, some of those people Iprobably should have sent home
because they weren't reallyactually selling, but that's a
different story.
So that's some of thefoundational things.
Obviously, there's a lot morein between here and between
there and here, but hopefullythat gives you a little bit of a
(06:51):
context for where some of mylearnings come from.
Dr. William Attaway (06:55):
Just, you know, one of the things that I
hear a lot in the people that Iwork with is the challenges of
retention.
Is the challenges of retentionwhen you have team members who
are feeling like they're just acog in the machine?
They're not really valued as aperson, they're not really seen
as a person, they're just seenfor what they do.
(07:16):
They are very quick to movedown the street, very quick to
hop from job to job to job.
What you just shared about ahundred percent retention rate
in an industry that I would notthink a whole lot of people are
lined up wanting to jump into ahundred percent retention rate
for two summers Like that's athat's a significant deal.
And I think what you justtalked about how you loved on
(07:39):
them, how you saw them as actual3D human beings and wanted to
add value to them that is such alesson that any leader can take
and apply, no matter whatcontext they're in.
I would imagine that'ssomething you have carried into
other environments, includingthe one that you're in now.
Josiah Fogle (07:58):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And it's so important to.
I mean, you hear this all thetime People don't care how much
you know until they know howmuch you care.
And it's just so true.
I literally the other day, likeI, I was literally yesterday I
was talking with a team memberon our team at story builders
(08:21):
and we have, you know, weeklyone-on-one, so that's that's.
You know, one of the one of thesystems behind the, the
relationships is one-on-ones,and I was in our one-on-one and,
um, just kind of slowed downand was like before we dived
into KPIs and before we divedinto like where things are at
and how he was doing and how Icould support him.
(08:43):
It was like, and how he wasdoing and how I could support
him.
It was like, how are you doing?
Like, how's the family, how arethe kids?
And you know it ended up beinga little bit of a rabbit hole,
but it was a deep rabbit hole.
That let him know that I careand let him know that I'm not
just here to push KPIs, I'm hereto support him as a whole
(09:05):
person.
And it just was a you know, Ifrankly it was almost routine
for me to slow down and ask,yeah, and I was like, when I
want to ask, I was almost it'skind of sad for me to say this
and acknowledge it but like Ialmost was taken back at like,
oh wow, you need to rememberthere's there's everyone's got a
(09:27):
deeper story and there's thingsgoing on in life that I'm not
going to see unless I slow downto ask.
And so, even though it was sortof on routine, it's like I
think it's like whenever you're,whenever you have a habit,
sometimes you don't even realizethe power of that habit, yeah,
until sometimes you catchyourself and you're like, oh wow
, that's powerful.
So that was a very real thing.
(09:49):
And obviously I'm not perfectand there's relationships I've
not done well with, but havingthat habit of slowing down, the
one-on-ones, the systems behindit, have been priceless I would
say.
Dr. William Attaway (10:05):
You know, one of the challenges that I see
often in the entrepreneurialcommunity is a difficulty
balancing home and work.
And you know you're married.
You have four kids, three boysand a little princess that I
mentioned in your bio earlier.
How do you do that?
How do you balance the need todrive forward in what you're
(10:30):
doing vocationally but notneglecting those relationships
that matter most?
Josiah Fogle (10:38):
Yeah, I think that's a challenge that a lot of
people face.
I think there's a couple ofthings I would say.
Um, the first is is making surethat you prioritize the
relationships in the right way.
Yeah, um, for me it's, for meit's um.
You know my wife is at the topand that communication, while
(11:00):
not perfect, again um isimportant.
And so we, you know, us beingon the same page is huge.
You know there are times in, uh, you know, when working, when
you need to flex and you need towork longer hours, and if you
do that without communicating it, oh man, that that's a recipe
(11:21):
for disaster.
I'm sure you and everyonelistening is like, oh yeah, but
you know so that communicationis so key.
But then also, like reallysetting aside time to invest
into the family, like when wehave family trips, when we do
(11:44):
things as a family, I, I try myabsolute best and I, like I turn
off anything I can um to tostay focused and make sure I am
present.
You know, like one of the thingsthat I like to say to myself,
you know, is be here now, notkind of like a little little
self-talk, of like be here nowand only only be worried about
(12:04):
in this moment, like who you'rewith, and so that's another
thing I like to do.
But another powerful thing issetting setting your actual like
family goals and family vision,as well as like the business
vision and goals.
The business vision and goals,because if you only set business
(12:25):
goals, like those are the onlythings on your mind and you
don't even have any context oflike what am I trying to do with
my family?
It's not just a life and kids,it's like no, what are we trying
to accomplish as a family?
And so that's you know.
Obviously, my kids are youngerI mean, my oldest is just turned
seven in July and so we'renavigating how to bring them
(12:50):
into that, into a family chartertype thing, into our family
vision and values and goals, andit's a work in progress, but
it's definitely something thatwe have started and intend to
continue to grow.
Dr. William Attaway (13:04):
I love the intentionality of that.
You're not just thinking oneday you're going to wake up and
everything is going to be likeyou dreamed it would be.
You're intentionally workingtoward it.
Josiah Fogle (13:15):
I think that's with a lot of things, whether
it's running a business,operating a business, in any
role, I think the intentionalityis what is needed and I think,
when you look at A players on ateam, that's what you should be
(13:36):
looking for.
And I think that you know andI'm just going back to the sales
team that I managed inSouthwestern I think that I
instilled that in them of like,why are you doing this?
And they weren't there to.
They weren't necessarily thereto make money.
They weren't there even to, youknow, like they weren't there
to be the best.
(13:56):
They were there to be part ofthe team.
They were there to gain likelife experience from going door
to door.
They were there to hope that,you know, to try to make money,
but it was like it was.
It was the third, it wasn't, itwasn't the first.
It was like they were there forthe team and the and the
experience first.
Um, and so I think, just whenyou have your priorities and
(14:20):
focus aligned, it makeseverything clearer.
You know it makes everythingclearer.
You know it's so easy and youprobably get caught in this too,
like I.
I I catch myself in this a lot,where you go through a week and
you look back and you're like,what did I do this week?
Like like, what was what?
(14:41):
What happened?
I filled the time, like thetime just kind of evaporated.
But was it focused?
Was it intentional?
Um, and I think when you, whenyou have, like your, your goals
set, when you have things thatyou're aiming for, and when you
have those, those priorities, um, it, it guides you.
(15:01):
It guides you towards focused,intentional work.
That's one of the things that Ilike to do is really think
through my priority and focusfor the day.
What is my priority and focus?
If I can do nothing else today?
What's the one thing?
If you take that and apply thatto the week with our leadership
team at Storybuilders we dothat what's the one thing for
(15:23):
this week that we want toaccomplish?
And then, if you take that forthe month, you take that for the
quarter, take that for the year, it really does help
crystallize where you're goingand the roadmap to get there.
Dr. William Attaway (15:36):
So good when you align your longer-term
goals, your quarterly, yourannual, even your five-year
goals, when you align those withwhat you're doing every day,
when there's a directcorrelation there, when you see
that alignment, yeah, man, whata motivator that is.
Yes, what a catapult that istoward your effectiveness and
toward greater intentionality.
(15:58):
Yeah, because you're like man,this is making a difference, and
I love what you're saying aboutpre-deciding, pre-defining what
the goal is.
I often say, hey, friday atfive o'clock, what am I going to
want to look back and say, hey,this was a great week.
What do I need to get donewhere I can look back and say
that, so, that's the goal thisweek, that's what's going to
(16:19):
make this a great week.
What stops me Most often?
The answer is me.
You are the head of operationsat Storybuilders.
What does that role look like?
Josiah Fogle (16:40):
So I'm just kidding.
So yeah, so as the head ofoperations for storybuilders, I
wear a lot of hats and really Ithink that the best way to kind
of answer that question is Iserve the company, I serve story
builders in ways that Bill, ourCEO and founder, in ways that
(17:06):
he's not as strong.
So I bring in my strengths ofgalvanizing the team of
discernment and activation to avery, very high caliber team.
So we have a very strong teamin terms of ideating and
wondering, and I'm using theworking genius language.
(17:27):
We actually we implemented itacross our full team.
Yeah, and so everyone takes itand it's it's we.
We talk about it often.
We talked about it just onMonday.
Yeah, and so it's, it's part ofour vernacular.
Yeah, and so it's part of ourvernacular.
And so the we looked at a teammap and the missing part before
I joined was the activation, andso the team had been a really,
(17:50):
really strong team of gettingthings done and doing them in a
in a new and innovative way toserve our clients what we call
story partners in creating anddeveloping their intellectual
property, such as books,learning experiences, all that
kind of stuff.
But every time they fulfilledon that service it was a little
(18:13):
bit different because there wasno person in the middle making
sure that the systems, theoperations, the SOPs and all
that were the same and beingused.
It's not that people didn'thave them, it's just that
everyone had their own set ofthem and so, yeah, so what I do
with Storybuilders is I'm kindof the alignment I'm helping
(18:36):
with bring alignment to thecompany as a whole to be able to
serve more story partners, um,and to be able to free up bill
to be the CEO, um, and to liveinto that role more um of of
helping grow the business inthat direction.
(18:57):
Does that make sense?
Dr. William Attaway (18:58):
100%.
Leading from the second chairis so often misunderstood.
I think it's seen as a lesserthan role.
It's seen as a well, maybe oneday you'll be the CEO Instead of
being seen as what it is, whichI think is a superpower.
I think the second chair is thecomplement that really fills
(19:22):
out and makes possible for aleader to lead in their zone of
genius.
And to use Lencioni'svernacular when you're operating
in your genius, man, there'snothing like it and there's
(19:52):
nothing like it.
You're not just getting alongin your zone of competency,
you're not being drained byoperating in a zone of
frustration.
No, you are head high.
What do you see as some of thekey components to leading from
the second chair?
What have you learned is soimportant in that role?
Josiah Fogle (20:06):
Yeah, that's a great question.
A lot of I learned.
I've learned a lotexperientially.
One of the books that I love onsort of the second chair,
second in command is CameronHarreld's book called Second in
Command, a great book on beingsort of the yin to the yang.
He calls it and the reality isbeing the number two, the second
(20:33):
in command or the second chair.
It's going to be different inevery situation.
It's going to be different withevery leader, because every
leader is a little bit different, and so I've actually played
this role for quite a few peoplenow I would say almost like
half a dozen different leadersand been able to come alongside
(20:55):
them.
And I think that where mystrength is is that I see the
vision, I see the mission andthen I can discern and figure
out here's how we're going toget closer to that.
And I do need to remember tostay in my lane, because
(21:18):
frustration of mine is tenacityand so I need to remember to
stay in that activation and makesure that I'm helping delegate
the enablement and tenacity of aproject.
But the things that areimportant are understanding how
the CEO or the founder or thenumber one in the company, how
(21:42):
that person's wired and what aretheir strengths.
And the reality is the businessthat they have founded, the
company that they have founded,the organization they have
founded, whatever it is, isthriving or is actually working
because of those strengths andit's not growing as fast as it
(22:07):
could because they're having tooperate in those areas of
frustration.
And so it's like how can youget them out of those areas of
frustration as fast as possibleto enable them to focus more on
bringing in new customers, onthe really the reality is?
It's like how can you let themif, if the sales and marketing
is their strength and they'rereally good at that, which most
(22:30):
founders and ceos are likethat's kind of just their
natural gifting.
It's like, hey, bringing morepeople in, um, getting more
people on board, then then youknow that is let them focus on
that, and then you need to takethe things off their plate that
aren't that.
And so it's really kind of, youknow, pairing what people's
strengths are.
(22:51):
Now there's other people thatI've worked with that is
opposite.
Their strength is not the sales, like they don't like the sales
.
Their strength is theoperations and the systems and
sales are happening and they'rein business because sales are
happening but they're like Idon't want to be on that side of
it.
Sales is over there, they cando their thing.
(23:12):
Let's make sure that it's superefficient and they've got such
an efficient machine that canfulfill on the product or the
service that they're providing.
But the reality is they couldgrow 10, x tomorrow if they had
the right person in that salesseat.
And for a second in commandit's like, okay, cool, coming in
(23:32):
with a mentality of I'm here togrow the sales and marketing of
the of this company.
So again the the the bestanswer I can give you is it
depends yeah, depends, on whatthe real need is.
Dr. William Attaway (23:47):
I think that landscape view that you're
describing, you're kind oflooking at the whole thing.
You're looking at the wholeboard, right.
You're not just looking atthese few pieces, you're looking
at the whole board and sayingwhat is the best way to
accomplish the goals that havebeen laid out, given what we
have to work with, given theresources that we have?
(24:07):
Where can we get better?
How do we make this better?
So often in that landscape view, you have a better view of what
Patrick Lencioni calls silos.
Right, in any business, anyorganization, where they are not
really all pulling together inthe same direction but they're
(24:28):
really focused on their thingand their thing is their thing
is the most important thing tothem, even over the business
goals.
How do you deal with that?
How do you keep everybodypulling in the same direction
from the seat that you sit in?
Josiah Fogle (24:43):
That's a great question.
I can imagine a couple ofpeople on my team actually who
are wired that way of like theirproject is the most important
project.
Yeah, that I try to do and Ithink that works is letting them
believe that, letting thembelieve that I think theirs is
(25:04):
the most important and so it'skind of like affirming them in a
sense.
Yeah, yeah of like, yeah, you'reabsolutely like how can I help,
how can I help you, how can Iserve you in that like what do
you need from me?
And then, like it's almost likemodeling, that, that support of
, like that modeling that I'mwilling to serve you, even
(25:25):
though it's not my job.
My job is not to work on onindividual projects yeah but
I'll come in and I'll serve youand it's almost it's modeling
that so that they see that, tobe able to do that for other
people too and understand, ohwow, you know.
You know josiah, he's head ofoperations but he's willing to
help in any way that he can onmy projects, not unless I'm
(25:47):
obviously gonna set boundaries.
I'm not gonna, yeah, you know,get sucked in and like have that
be what fills up my week, but Iam gonna make sure that they
know that.
That's why I'm here.
I'm here to make sure thattheir projects go well.
And then it's after theyunderstand that and they fully
understand that and I've seenthis actually happen, which is
kind of cool then it's helpingthem understand.
(26:08):
Okay, what about?
You know bob's projects overhere?
Like you know, how can you withyour strengths, help with this?
Like, do you see anyopportunities?
And it's kind of bringing inthat cross-collaboration.
But it really needs to startwith them feeling like they are
(26:28):
I don't want to say the mostimportant, but they're heard and
they're seen and it's likethey're valued, because if they
feel valued, they want to makesure that everyone else feels
valued too.
It's kind of like this.
It creates this bandwagoneffect of.
We are a team, you know it's.
You know, I think I thinkbreaking down the the um, the
(26:52):
false narrative that, like Ijust need to get my job done, is
done by example.
Like I think, I think that, asa head of operations, you need
to be able to come in.
It needs to seem like you toucheverything, like like you've
got ropes holding everything,but the reality is you, you it's
(27:12):
all delegated, yeah, it's all,everything is moving and it it
sits at the outside eye.
It's like, wow, josiah runs it.
It's like, no, not really.
Like I just have a really coolteam.
Like I have a really cool teamthat is in alignment and being
intentional with their days andfocused on the main goal.
Like how do we, how do we, howdo we?
(27:32):
Do we, you know, make the worlda better place through story?
Like and that's what we're allabout as story builders.
Like how do we tell stories?
That and?
And what's, what's cool is itcomes back full circle in that,
like in in the work we're doing,because you know, sometimes in
the creative space, like you canget good enough, you can have a
good enough product.
Like, oh, this is good enough,but our team, like my team that
(27:56):
doesn't doesn't settle for that.
Like a lot of times I'll getlike the pushback of like I
think we can go more, I think wecan make this better, and like
that doesn't.
That doesn't happen with a teamthat's just focused on get it
done.
Yeah, um, and then that again,again comes full circle in that
(28:17):
the story partner or the clientthat we were working with, they
get the deliverable and they'relike wow, this is awesome, like
this is better than I thought.
It would Excuse me, for some ofour clients that we work with,
with we're doing collaborativewriting, or some people call it
ghost writing, and one of ourclients a couple weeks ago was
(28:39):
like this is me, but it couldn'thave ever come out of me, but
it's me and and and he was justkind of blown away at the, the,
how the voice was captured insuch a, such a, such such a, a,
a powerful way that thatcaptured him, um, and what he
(28:59):
was in the story that he wantedto tell through through this
book, um, and then that thatgoes in and then gets, brings us
referrals, and so it's likethat doesn't just happen.
It takes intentionality, ittakes, um, you know, it takes
that, that, that focus, um andthat, um, yeah, I guess.
Coming back to theintentionality, I guess you
(29:21):
could say that being intentionalis is catalytic, yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (29:26):
I love that .
Yeah, you know the way you'redescribing the role.
It sounds so much like aconductor of an orchestra.
You know where all the piecesfit, you know how it works
together and your goal is tobring out the best in everybody.
(29:47):
But the conductor never makes asound.
They're simply drawing thesound out of the team to make
something beautiful, and thatfeels very much like what you're
doing.
Josiah Fogle (29:58):
Yeah, it's a.
It's kind of, as you weresaying, that it made me think of
um, cause I played rugby um inum middle school, high school,
college, a little bit aftercollege too, um, and actually
actually played for thePhilippines Philippines under
twenties national team andactually played for the
Philippines Under-20s NationalTeam, which is a fun little fun
fact.
But my position on the team wasthe halfback, kind of like
(30:24):
quarterback in football,american football but I would be
the person that connected thebacks with the forwards were
like the big guys, the littleguys, the guys that would run
with, the guys that would justlike hit um.
And it was like my job toconduct and make you know, pass
(30:47):
the ball out if it was ready togo out, keep the ball in if it
was supposed to stay in um.
And I just I never thoughtabout that analogy of that
conductor with regards to rugbyand, like some of the sports,
the skills that I learnedplaying rugby, how they kind of
relate to this too.
It's interesting.
Dr. William Attaway (31:05):
Absolutely.
There's no such thing as awasted experience.
You know, it's so interestingto me how God weaves so many of
the experiences of our livestogether and something that
doesn't seem connected at all infact positions and prepares us
for something so much later.
Josiah, you are leading at adifferent level than you did a
(31:28):
few years ago, and a few yearsfrom now, your team is going to
need you to lead at a higherlevel still.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
How do you level up with thenew skills that you are going to
need to have as a leader?
Josiah Fogle (31:42):
Yeah, that's a great question and I think that
I'm going to answer it in a kindof a weird way.
I think that there's a certainpoint where I might not be the
best fit for this team andthere's kind of an
acknowledgement that you need tomake and I think it's like for
(32:04):
me, what is my strength in thecurrent seat?
You know, is this current seat,this head of operations, the
long term seat that I'm going tobe in?
And as we scale, you know, asyou scale a company, there's
different needs and there's, youknow, when you're a you know
$500,000 company versus amillion dollar, $3 million, $10
(32:27):
million, $20 million, you know,as you scale, like the needs are
so different, like the needsare so different.
And it's it's naive and foolishto think that as you scale and
we have plans to scale pretty,pretty large that as you scale,
you can still fulfill that samerole and that same function to
the same capacity.
(32:48):
And so I envision a time wherestore builders hires a a much
more qualified and better, youknow, head of operations or COO
in that role.
Maybe it's me, maybe it's not,but the reality is you need to
be mindful that just because thecompany is growing.
You know well, as the companyis growing, you are also growing
(33:12):
, but the role and the functionthat you're in might not be the
role and function that it needsat a larger scale, and so I get
to set the stage like that's.
I think that's just somethingto keep in mind.
Now, how do I personally grow?
Um, I think it was more of yourquestion, but the the reality
(33:33):
is.
Reality is, I think it's it's amatter of, like, always
consuming, um, always consumingnew stuff.
Like I absolutely love Lencioniand his working genius podcast.
Um, that is a very helpful tool, um, I am a very much an
auditory learner, um, and so,you know, listening to that pod,
listening to podcasts, readingbooks, um, you know, the second
(33:57):
get a man I mentioned earlierwas that it was a very powerful
tool.
And then, another thing that youknow we were talking about this
offline, going attending andgoing to masterminds and
different things that allow forlike you coined it earlier, like
those mountaintop experiencesyeah, I, like you coined it
earlier like those mountaintopexperiences where you're able to
you know, cause you mentionedthat that that sort of that
(34:20):
portrait view, that landscapeview, like the sorry, the
landscape view of, like, what'sgoing on in the business, but
you know what?
It's so easy to get sucked in,yeah, and so mountaintop
experiences like masterminds oreven like seminars or workshops
I know the global leadershipsummit's coming up soon Uh,
things like that that gets youto look, step back and look at
(34:42):
what's going on.
Um, so I love doing things likethat, I love pouring in.
That's actually how you and Ifirst met.
Um was a global leadershipsummit um a long time ago, a
long time ago.
Dr. William Attaway (34:52):
It's been a minute.
Josiah Fogle (34:54):
It's been a minute , didn't have any kids, I don't
think I even had a.
No, I had a wife, but so soconsuming content, listening to
things.
One of the cool things about inmy current role is as words of
helping leaders andentrepreneurs and business
people develop their books.
A big part of what they'redoing is audiobooks, and so I'm
(35:16):
gleaning from those.
I love audiobooks and so as weput a book out, I'm quality
control, but it's also helpingme grow.
Dr. William Attaway (35:26):
I love that .
Josiah Fogle (35:29):
And then the last thing I'll say is seeking out
like mentors, um, seeking outpeople who are further ahead on
the journey, um, that can be anexample, that can be someone
that you can look to and say Iwant to be like that in 10 years
(35:51):
, I want to be like that in fiveyears, I want to be like that
in 20 years, like that's so, sopowerful.
And I think for me it's one ofthe things I've always looked
for in in whoever I'm workingwith as a number one or as the
owner or founder.
You know that that was the bigdraw to towards working with
(36:12):
Bill at Sword Builders and youknow he's.
He's someone who has a verystrong relationship with the
Lord.
He is someone who has six kids,so more than me, and his
youngest is like graduating highschool and he's just in a
different stage of life that Iam, but has been where I'm at
(36:33):
and knows what it's like andalso is growing a business.
And I'm like I want to learn,not just not just the tangible
business things, but like thelife things.
Selfishly, I'm almostpositioning myself how I want my
team members to position, likehow I want to position myself
(36:53):
for my team members, position,like how I want to position
myself for my team members.
I want to position myselftowards my leader in a way that
in which I can glean from him,because, you know, the reality
is we all get busy and I thinkfor it's.
I think I think there's beentimes in the past where I've
wanted that, but I haven't beenintentional in in, like, setting
(37:15):
myself up to glean.
I'm using glean for, forintentionally, because the
reality is, as a, as a CEO,founder, like there's so many
things going on that distractand if it's not top of mind, it
doesn't happen.
And if it's not something thatI am constantly being like hey,
bill, like hey, can you show melike how you did that?
Like can you talk to me aboutthis conversation that we just
(37:36):
had?
Like can you walk me throughthat Like?
I think the, the, the curiosity, the curiosity towards
entrepreneurship, the curiositytowards leadership, the
curiosity towards doingleadership Well, is something
that I think is probably one ofmy strengths.
Dr. William Attaway (37:55):
That it's not, it doesn't happen by
accident, it needs to beintentional, but that's probably
the biggest thing that'shelping me grow, you know one of
the things that that I'vealways admired about you since
we first met and it's beenalmost a decade ago now is the
the humility that you approach.
Whatever you're doing, you havea teachable spirit that comes
(38:18):
through so loud and clear andthat has been so evident in this
discussion, and I'm so gratefulto you for sharing and leading
from a place like that.
I believe that is what trulymakes a leader catalytic when
you lead from a placeunderstanding you don't have all
the answers, you don't know itall.
You're learning too, but youare committed to being a conduit
(38:41):
of what you're learning insteadof just trying to hold it all
in for yourself.
You've mentioned a couple ofbooks on the show on this
episode.
Before we wrap up, I would love.
Is there a book that you wouldrecommend, a favorite book that,
if a leader hasn't read this,you say man, you got to put this
on your list.
Josiah Fogle (38:59):
Man.
There's so many man.
The one that immediately alwayscomes to my mind first is Never
Split the Difference.
Great book, yeah.
Another good one is CrucialConversations.
It's a good reminder the onethat I read actually on a
(39:22):
regular basis just because it'ssuch a classic is how to Win
Friends and Influence People.
Dr. William Attaway (39:27):
It's just such a classic.
Josiah Fogle (39:32):
Obviously, there's little things in there that are
timeless.
It's a good reminder of puttingpeople first and that, like
what you said earlier, the 3dmaking sure they're a 3d human,
um, human being, and uh, there,there's a lot to that.
Dr. William Attaway (39:51):
That's so good man.
I know folks are going to wantto stay connected to you and
continue to learn from you,josiah.
What is the best way for folksto do that?
Josiah Fogle (40:01):
Yeah, probably the easiest way would be to shoot
me an email, josiahfogle atgmailcom and we can get
connected that way.
If you're listening to this andyou've heard me mention books
or ghost writing, collaborativewriting or anything like that,
feel free to go tomystorybuilderscom and check us
(40:21):
out.
Check out the website.
You can schedule a call thereto talk with the team and we can
talk more about yourintellectual property, your book
idea, anything like that too.
So there's two different ways.
Dr. William Attaway (40:33):
Josiah, this has been so helpful today.
Thank you for sharing sohonestly and so openly such
generosity that you've put ondisplay today from your story
and what you've learned so far.
Thank you for that.
Josiah Fogle (40:45):
Well, thanks, willem.
I appreciate you and everythingthat you're doing with
Catalytic Leadership.
It's been really cool to seethis just grow into something
that creating ripples, and youreally are being a catalyst, so
thank you for watching.
Dr. William Attaway (40:58):
Thanks for joining me for this episode
today.
As we wrap up, I'd love for youto do two things.
First, subscribe to thispodcast so you don't miss an
episode, and if you find valuehere, I'd love it if you would
rate it and review it.
That really does make adifference in helping other
people to discover this podcast.
Second, if you don't have acopy of my newest book,
(41:20):
Catalytic Leadership, I'd loveto put a copy in your hands.
If you go tocatalyticleadershipbookcom, you
can get a copy for free.
Just pay the shipping so I canget it to you and we'll get one
right out.
My goal is to put this into thehands of as many leaders as
possible.
This book captures principlesthat I've learned in 20 plus
(41:42):
years of coaching leaders in theentrepreneurial space, in
business, government,non-profits, education and the
local church.
You can also connect with me onLinkedIn to keep up with what
I'm currently learning andthinking about.
And if you're ready to take anext step with a coach to help
you intentionally grow andthrive as a leader, I'd be
(42:04):
honored to help you, Just go tocatalyticleadershipnet to book a
call with me.
Stay tuned for our next episodenext week.
Until then, as always, leaderschoose to be catalytic.
I'm excited today that Josiah Fogle is on
the podcast.
Josiah is an author andentrepreneur who believes in
uncovering opportunities withinevery person and situation.
With a genuine passion forcoaching and inspiring other
people, he dedicates himself tohelping individuals to achieve
(00:20):
their goals.
Drawn from a diverse range ofexperiences across various
business industries, Josiah hascultivated a unique perspective
on what it takes to succeed asan entrepreneur.
Driven by an insatiable lovefor learning, Josiah continually
seeks personal growth andimprovement.
His unwavering commitment toprogress is only matched by his
(00:42):
desire to motivate and coachthose around him, guiding them
toward reaching their ownaspirations.
A self-proclaimed Renaissanceman, Josiah's dedication extends
to his own family, where heleads by example for his three
strapping boys, his littleprincess and his all-star wife.
Josiah, I'm so glad you're here.
(01:02):
Thanks for being on the show.
Intro / Outro (01:11):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the
podcast designed to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:23):
I would love to start with you sharing a
little bit of your story withour listeners, particularly
around your journey and yourdevelopment as a leader.
How did you get started?
Josiah Fogle (01:34):
Yeah, so I mean to go all the way back.
I had a.
Really my dad's had a reallystrong example for me growing up
.
He was a missionary in thePhilippines and one of the
things like I have a very vividmemory of one.
We would do this a lot, but oneevening in particular where my
(01:56):
dad liked he was a, he was ateacher and so he, you know, was
not he didn't use his hands allthe time, but he loved to use
his hands when he could and likefor, for manual labor and
things like that.
And so we were on this, thismassive uh campground that
always had work to do and, um,always needed, you know, needed
gravel on the roads, needed, youknow, things chopped down,
(02:18):
needed, you know, all thesedifferent manual tasks that
there were people to do it.
But he always was like cool,I'm done with my studies, I'm
done with preparing, I'm goingto go do this.
And he would always invite, youknow, me or my siblings.
I remember one evening inparticular, um, my dad was like
you want to come, and I was likesure, and so we go down and
(02:41):
we're shoveling from thismassive rock pile and we're, you
know, putting it in awheelbarrow, then going down the
road, filling in a pothole, andthen we go back, you know, put
it in, and then it's, it'sgetting dark.
I'm like it's like, you know,six o'clock ish, and in the
Philippines it's always dark atlike five thirty.
It's like it's it's light, fivethirty, it's dark, and 5.30,
(03:06):
it's dark, and so it's likestarting to get dark out and I'm
like I'm hungry, I'm tired, andmy dad's still going.
I'm like, dad, are we gonna?
Are we gonna go?
Like, are we gonna go back tothe house.
It's almost dinner time andhe's like, no, there's, there's
still more, still more potholes,and and we, we worked there for
another probably about half anhour.
It was like we could barelylike until we could really not
even see what we were doing.
Wow, it's that that for me.
I remember that and I'm likeman that's.
(03:29):
That was such a powerfulteaching moment that he used um
for me and uh, yeah, so that'skind of where it started.
And then it sort of evolved.
Um, a mentor of mine told me Ishould do this, this crazy
internship thing calledSouthwestern Advantage.
Um, and this is where I kind ofgot my.
(03:53):
I cut my teeth on sales.
So I had no idea what it was.
But a mentor of mine saidyou're going to do it, it's
going to, you're going to,you're going to learn a lot,
you're going to grow a lot,you'll make some money to pay
for college.
And I was like cool, I like allthose things, and so I Win-win.
And so I reached out to thecompany and kind of submitted my
information which they don'treally get a lot of those
because it's a door-to-doorsales thing and I got a call
(04:16):
from one of their area directorsand basically was like, hey,
I'm doing it.
And he was like trying to sellme on it, I'm like, dude, dude,
I'm good, I'm, I'm, I'm doing it.
And he was like trying to sellme on it.
I'm like, dude, dude, I'm, I'mgood, I, I'm in, I want to do it
.
He's like, are you sure it waslike it was, it was kind of
weird, but anyways, Um, but thatended up being a three year
long, uh venture that I did whenI was in college.
(04:39):
That kind of taught me, um,perseverance, how to sell, how
to take rejection.
You know, when you knock onover 20,000 doors, you learn a
little bit, just a bit.
So, yeah, I think that was abig part of my learning too.
(04:59):
A big part of my learning too.
And then I think the biggest,another big thing there was when
I, after my first summerselling books door to door
through Southwestern, Irecruited a team my second year
and my third year and I actuallygot an award for for this, that
(05:22):
kind of unheard of that 100% ofmy team both years stayed the
whole summer.
Normally the retention rate is30% at highest.
I had 100% both years andpeople were like what are you
doing.
I'm just like I don't know.
I'm just loving on people, I'mjust loving on my team.
(05:43):
I want them to know that I careand that I'm going to help them
.
You know, no matter if theyhave a great sales day, no
matter if they have a bad salesday.
I'm like I'm here to serve you,I'm here to support you, and it
was powerful and I look back onthat.
I don't think I realized howstrange, how, um, how strange
(06:06):
that was in the in the time,cause it just felt normal, um,
and so it kind of it's been,it's been a help, it's been a
helpful thing for me to reflecton um further in my career now
of like, okay, cool, justremember that that was what you
did.
There was really powerful, um,and so it kind of is is a
(06:29):
guiding rock of like you know,love the people you're with and
make them feel like they're.
You know, no matter how they'redoing that you care.
Now, some of those people Iprobably should have sent home
because they weren't reallyactually selling, but that's a
different story.
So that's some of thefoundational things.
Obviously, there's a lot morein between here and between
there and here, but hopefullythat gives you a little bit of a
(06:51):
context for where some of mylearnings come from.
Dr. William Attaway (06:55):
Just, you know, one of the things that I
hear a lot in the people that Iwork with is the challenges of
retention.
Is the challenges of retentionwhen you have team members who
are feeling like they're just acog in the machine?
They're not really valued as aperson, they're not really seen
as a person, they're just seenfor what they do.
(07:16):
They are very quick to movedown the street, very quick to
hop from job to job to job.
What you just shared about ahundred percent retention rate
in an industry that I would notthink a whole lot of people are
lined up wanting to jump into ahundred percent retention rate
for two summers Like that's athat's a significant deal.
And I think what you justtalked about how you loved on
(07:39):
them, how you saw them as actual3D human beings and wanted to
add value to them that is such alesson that any leader can take
and apply, no matter whatcontext they're in.
I would imagine that'ssomething you have carried into
other environments, includingthe one that you're in now.
Josiah Fogle (07:58):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And it's so important to.
I mean, you hear this all thetime People don't care how much
you know until they know howmuch you care.
And it's just so true.
I literally the other day, likeI, I was literally yesterday I
was talking with a team memberon our team at story builders
(08:21):
and we have, you know, weeklyone-on-one, so that's that's.
You know, one of the one of thesystems behind the, the
relationships is one-on-ones,and I was in our one-on-one and,
um, just kind of slowed downand was like before we dived
into KPIs and before we divedinto like where things are at
and how he was doing and how Icould support him.
(08:43):
It was like, and how he wasdoing and how I could support
him.
It was like, how are you doing?
Like, how's the family, how arethe kids?
And you know it ended up beinga little bit of a rabbit hole,
but it was a deep rabbit hole.
That let him know that I careand let him know that I'm not
just here to push KPIs, I'm hereto support him as a whole
(09:05):
person.
And it just was a you know, Ifrankly it was almost routine
for me to slow down and ask,yeah, and I was like, when I
want to ask, I was almost it'skind of sad for me to say this
and acknowledge it but like Ialmost was taken back at like,
oh wow, you need to rememberthere's there's everyone's got a
(09:27):
deeper story and there's thingsgoing on in life that I'm not
going to see unless I slow downto ask.
And so, even though it was sortof on routine, it's like I
think it's like whenever you're,whenever you have a habit,
sometimes you don't even realizethe power of that habit, yeah,
until sometimes you catchyourself and you're like, oh wow
, that's powerful.
So that was a very real thing.
(09:49):
And obviously I'm not perfectand there's relationships I've
not done well with, but havingthat habit of slowing down, the
one-on-ones, the systems behindit, have been priceless I would
say.
Dr. William Attaway (10:05):
You know, one of the challenges that I see
often in the entrepreneurialcommunity is a difficulty
balancing home and work.
And you know you're married.
You have four kids, three boysand a little princess that I
mentioned in your bio earlier.
How do you do that?
How do you balance the need todrive forward in what you're
(10:30):
doing vocationally but notneglecting those relationships
that matter most?
Josiah Fogle (10:38):
Yeah, I think that's a challenge that a lot of
people face.
I think there's a couple ofthings I would say.
Um, the first is is making surethat you prioritize the
relationships in the right way.
Yeah, um, for me it's, for meit's um.
You know my wife is at the topand that communication, while
(11:00):
not perfect, again um isimportant.
And so we, you know, us beingon the same page is huge.
You know there are times in, uh, you know, when working, when
you need to flex and you need towork longer hours, and if you
do that without communicating it, oh man, that that's a recipe
(11:21):
for disaster.
I'm sure you and everyonelistening is like, oh yeah, but
you know so that communicationis so key.
But then also, like reallysetting aside time to invest
into the family, like when wehave family trips, when we do
(11:44):
things as a family, I, I try myabsolute best and I, like I turn
off anything I can um to tostay focused and make sure I am
present.
You know, like one of the thingsthat I like to say to myself,
you know, is be here now, notkind of like a little little
self-talk, of like be here nowand only only be worried about
(12:04):
in this moment, like who you'rewith, and so that's another
thing I like to do.
But another powerful thing issetting setting your actual like
family goals and family vision,as well as like the business
vision and goals.
The business vision and goals,because if you only set business
(12:25):
goals, like those are the onlythings on your mind and you
don't even have any context oflike what am I trying to do with
my family?
It's not just a life and kids,it's like no, what are we trying
to accomplish as a family?
And so that's you know.
Obviously, my kids are youngerI mean, my oldest is just turned
seven in July and so we'renavigating how to bring them
(12:50):
into that, into a family chartertype thing, into our family
vision and values and goals, andit's a work in progress, but
it's definitely something thatwe have started and intend to
continue to grow.
Dr. William Attaway (13:04):
I love the intentionality of that.
You're not just thinking oneday you're going to wake up and
everything is going to be likeyou dreamed it would be.
You're intentionally workingtoward it.
Josiah Fogle (13:15):
I think that's with a lot of things, whether
it's running a business,operating a business, in any
role, I think the intentionalityis what is needed and I think,
when you look at A players on ateam, that's what you should be
(13:36):
looking for.
And I think that you know andI'm just going back to the sales
team that I managed inSouthwestern I think that I
instilled that in them of like,why are you doing this?
And they weren't there to.
They weren't necessarily thereto make money.
They weren't there even to, youknow, like they weren't there
to be the best.
(13:56):
They were there to be part ofthe team.
They were there to gain likelife experience from going door
to door.
They were there to hope that,you know, to try to make money,
but it was like it was.
It was the third, it wasn't, itwasn't the first.
It was like they were there forthe team and the and the
experience first.
Um, and so I think, just whenyou have your priorities and
(14:20):
focus aligned, it makeseverything clearer.
You know it makes everythingclearer.
You know it's so easy and youprobably get caught in this too,
like I.
I I catch myself in this a lot,where you go through a week and
you look back and you're like,what did I do this week?
Like like, what was what?
(14:41):
What happened?
I filled the time, like thetime just kind of evaporated.
But was it focused?
Was it intentional?
Um, and I think when you, whenyou have, like your, your goals
set, when you have things thatyou're aiming for, and when you
have those, those priorities, um, it, it guides you.
(15:01):
It guides you towards focused,intentional work.
That's one of the things that Ilike to do is really think
through my priority and focusfor the day.
What is my priority and focus?
If I can do nothing else today?
What's the one thing?
If you take that and apply thatto the week with our leadership
team at Storybuilders we dothat what's the one thing for
(15:23):
this week that we want toaccomplish?
And then, if you take that forthe month, you take that for the
quarter, take that for the year, it really does help
crystallize where you're goingand the roadmap to get there.
Dr. William Attaway (15:36):
So good when you align your longer-term
goals, your quarterly, yourannual, even your five-year
goals, when you align those withwhat you're doing every day,
when there's a directcorrelation there, when you see
that alignment, yeah, man, whata motivator that is.
Yes, what a catapult that istoward your effectiveness and
toward greater intentionality.
(15:58):
Yeah, because you're like man,this is making a difference, and
I love what you're saying aboutpre-deciding, pre-defining what
the goal is.
I often say, hey, friday atfive o'clock, what am I going to
want to look back and say, hey,this was a great week.
What do I need to get donewhere I can look back and say
that, so, that's the goal thisweek, that's what's going to
(16:19):
make this a great week.
What stops me Most often?
The answer is me.
You are the head of operationsat Storybuilders.
What does that role look like?
Josiah Fogle (16:40):
So I'm just kidding.
So yeah, so as the head ofoperations for storybuilders, I
wear a lot of hats and really Ithink that the best way to kind
of answer that question is Iserve the company, I serve story
builders in ways that Bill, ourCEO and founder, in ways that
(17:06):
he's not as strong.
So I bring in my strengths ofgalvanizing the team of
discernment and activation to avery, very high caliber team.
So we have a very strong teamin terms of ideating and
wondering, and I'm using theworking genius language.
(17:27):
We actually we implemented itacross our full team.
Yeah, and so everyone takes itand it's it's we.
We talk about it often.
We talked about it just onMonday.
Yeah, and so it's, it's part ofour vernacular.
Yeah, and so it's part of ourvernacular.
And so the we looked at a teammap and the missing part before
I joined was the activation, andso the team had been a really,
(17:50):
really strong team of gettingthings done and doing them in a
in a new and innovative way toserve our clients what we call
story partners in creating anddeveloping their intellectual
property, such as books,learning experiences, all that
kind of stuff.
But every time they fulfilledon that service it was a little
(18:13):
bit different because there wasno person in the middle making
sure that the systems, theoperations, the SOPs and all
that were the same and beingused.
It's not that people didn'thave them, it's just that
everyone had their own set ofthem and so, yeah, so what I do
with Storybuilders is I'm kindof the alignment I'm helping
(18:36):
with bring alignment to thecompany as a whole to be able to
serve more story partners, um,and to be able to free up bill
to be the CEO, um, and to liveinto that role more um of of
helping grow the business inthat direction.
(18:57):
Does that make sense?
Dr. William Attaway (18:58):
100%.
Leading from the second chairis so often misunderstood.
I think it's seen as a lesserthan role.
It's seen as a well, maybe oneday you'll be the CEO Instead of
being seen as what it is, whichI think is a superpower.
I think the second chair is thecomplement that really fills
(19:22):
out and makes possible for aleader to lead in their zone of
genius.
And to use Lencioni'svernacular when you're operating
in your genius, man, there'snothing like it and there's
(19:52):
nothing like it.
You're not just getting alongin your zone of competency,
you're not being drained byoperating in a zone of
frustration.
No, you are head high.
What do you see as some of thekey components to leading from
the second chair?
What have you learned is soimportant in that role?
Josiah Fogle (20:06):
Yeah, that's a great question.
A lot of I learned.
I've learned a lotexperientially.
One of the books that I love onsort of the second chair,
second in command is CameronHarreld's book called Second in
Command, a great book on beingsort of the yin to the yang.
He calls it and the reality isbeing the number two, the second
(20:33):
in command or the second chair.
It's going to be different inevery situation.
It's going to be different withevery leader, because every
leader is a little bit different, and so I've actually played
this role for quite a few peoplenow I would say almost like
half a dozen different leadersand been able to come alongside
(20:55):
them.
And I think that where mystrength is is that I see the
vision, I see the mission andthen I can discern and figure
out here's how we're going toget closer to that.
And I do need to remember tostay in my lane, because
(21:18):
frustration of mine is tenacityand so I need to remember to
stay in that activation and makesure that I'm helping delegate
the enablement and tenacity of aproject.
But the things that areimportant are understanding how
the CEO or the founder or thenumber one in the company, how
(21:42):
that person's wired and what aretheir strengths.
And the reality is the businessthat they have founded, the
company that they have founded,the organization they have
founded, whatever it is, isthriving or is actually working
because of those strengths andit's not growing as fast as it
(22:07):
could because they're having tooperate in those areas of
frustration.
And so it's like how can youget them out of those areas of
frustration as fast as possibleto enable them to focus more on
bringing in new customers, onthe really the reality is?
It's like how can you let themif, if the sales and marketing
is their strength and they'rereally good at that, which most
(22:30):
founders and ceos are likethat's kind of just their
natural gifting.
It's like, hey, bringing morepeople in, um, getting more
people on board, then then youknow that is let them focus on
that, and then you need to takethe things off their plate that
aren't that.
And so it's really kind of, youknow, pairing what people's
strengths are.
(22:51):
Now there's other people thatI've worked with that is
opposite.
Their strength is not the sales, like they don't like the sales
.
Their strength is theoperations and the systems and
sales are happening and they'rein business because sales are
happening but they're like Idon't want to be on that side of
it.
Sales is over there, they cando their thing.
(23:12):
Let's make sure that it's superefficient and they've got such
an efficient machine that canfulfill on the product or the
service that they're providing.
But the reality is they couldgrow 10, x tomorrow if they had
the right person in that salesseat.
And for a second in commandit's like, okay, cool, coming in
(23:32):
with a mentality of I'm here togrow the sales and marketing of
the of this company.
So again the the the bestanswer I can give you is it
depends yeah, depends, on whatthe real need is.
Dr. William Attaway (23:47):
I think that landscape view that you're
describing, you're kind oflooking at the whole thing.
You're looking at the wholeboard, right.
You're not just looking atthese few pieces, you're looking
at the whole board and sayingwhat is the best way to
accomplish the goals that havebeen laid out, given what we
have to work with, given theresources that we have?
(24:07):
Where can we get better?
How do we make this better?
So often in that landscape view, you have a better view of what
Patrick Lencioni calls silos.
Right, in any business, anyorganization, where they are not
really all pulling together inthe same direction but they're
(24:28):
really focused on their thingand their thing is their thing
is the most important thing tothem, even over the business
goals.
How do you deal with that?
How do you keep everybodypulling in the same direction
from the seat that you sit in?
Josiah Fogle (24:43):
That's a great question.
I can imagine a couple ofpeople on my team actually who
are wired that way of like theirproject is the most important
project.
Yeah, that I try to do and Ithink that works is letting them
believe that, letting thembelieve that I think theirs is
(25:04):
the most important and so it'skind of like affirming them in a
sense.
Yeah, yeah of like, yeah, you'reabsolutely like how can I help,
how can I help you, how can Iserve you in that like what do
you need from me?
And then, like it's almost likemodeling, that, that support of
, like that modeling that I'mwilling to serve you, even
(25:25):
though it's not my job.
My job is not to work on onindividual projects yeah but
I'll come in and I'll serve youand it's almost it's modeling
that so that they see that, tobe able to do that for other
people too and understand, ohwow, you know.
You know josiah, he's head ofoperations but he's willing to
help in any way that he can onmy projects, not unless I'm
(25:47):
obviously gonna set boundaries.
I'm not gonna, yeah, you know,get sucked in and like have that
be what fills up my week, but Iam gonna make sure that they
know that.
That's why I'm here.
I'm here to make sure thattheir projects go well.
And then it's after theyunderstand that and they fully
understand that and I've seenthis actually happen, which is
kind of cool then it's helpingthem understand.
(26:08):
Okay, what about?
You know bob's projects overhere?
Like you know, how can you withyour strengths, help with this?
Like, do you see anyopportunities?
And it's kind of bringing inthat cross-collaboration.
But it really needs to startwith them feeling like they are
(26:28):
I don't want to say the mostimportant, but they're heard and
they're seen and it's likethey're valued, because if they
feel valued, they want to makesure that everyone else feels
valued too.
It's kind of like this.
It creates this bandwagoneffect of.
We are a team, you know it's.
You know, I think I thinkbreaking down the the um, the
(26:52):
false narrative that, like Ijust need to get my job done, is
done by example.
Like I think, I think that, asa head of operations, you need
to be able to come in.
It needs to seem like you toucheverything, like like you've
got ropes holding everything,but the reality is you, you it's
(27:12):
all delegated, yeah, it's all,everything is moving and it it
sits at the outside eye.
It's like, wow, josiah runs it.
It's like, no, not really.
Like I just have a really coolteam.
Like I have a really cool teamthat is in alignment and being
intentional with their days andfocused on the main goal.
Like how do we, how do we, howdo we?
(27:32):
Do we, you know, make the worlda better place through story?
Like and that's what we're allabout as story builders.
Like how do we tell stories?
That and?
And what's, what's cool is itcomes back full circle in that,
like in in the work we're doing,because you know, sometimes in
the creative space, like you canget good enough, you can have a
good enough product.
Like, oh, this is good enough,but our team, like my team that
(27:56):
doesn't doesn't settle for that.
Like a lot of times I'll getlike the pushback of like I
think we can go more, I think wecan make this better, and like
that doesn't.
That doesn't happen with a teamthat's just focused on get it
done.
Yeah, um, and then that again,again comes full circle in that
(28:17):
the story partner or the clientthat we were working with, they
get the deliverable and they'relike wow, this is awesome, like
this is better than I thought.
It would Excuse me, for some ofour clients that we work with,
with we're doing collaborativewriting, or some people call it
ghost writing, and one of ourclients a couple weeks ago was
(28:39):
like this is me, but it couldn'thave ever come out of me, but
it's me and and and he was justkind of blown away at the, the,
how the voice was captured insuch a, such a, such such a, a,
a powerful way that thatcaptured him, um, and what he
(28:59):
was in the story that he wantedto tell through through this
book, um, and then that thatgoes in and then gets, brings us
referrals, and so it's likethat doesn't just happen.
It takes intentionality, ittakes, um, you know, it takes
that, that, that focus, um andthat, um, yeah, I guess.
Coming back to theintentionality, I guess you
(29:21):
could say that being intentionalis is catalytic, yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (29:26):
I love that .
Yeah, you know the way you'redescribing the role.
It sounds so much like aconductor of an orchestra.
You know where all the piecesfit, you know how it works
together and your goal is tobring out the best in everybody.
(29:47):
But the conductor never makes asound.
They're simply drawing thesound out of the team to make
something beautiful, and thatfeels very much like what you're
doing.
Josiah Fogle (29:58):
Yeah, it's a.
It's kind of, as you weresaying, that it made me think of
um, cause I played rugby um inum middle school, high school,
college, a little bit aftercollege too, um, and actually
actually played for thePhilippines Philippines under
twenties national team andactually played for the
Philippines Under-20s NationalTeam, which is a fun little fun
fact.
But my position on the team wasthe halfback, kind of like
(30:24):
quarterback in football,american football but I would be
the person that connected thebacks with the forwards were
like the big guys, the littleguys, the guys that would run
with, the guys that would justlike hit um.
And it was like my job toconduct and make you know, pass
(30:47):
the ball out if it was ready togo out, keep the ball in if it
was supposed to stay in um.
And I just I never thoughtabout that analogy of that
conductor with regards to rugbyand, like some of the sports,
the skills that I learnedplaying rugby, how they kind of
relate to this too.
It's interesting.
Dr. William Attaway (31:05):
Absolutely.
There's no such thing as awasted experience.
You know, it's so interestingto me how God weaves so many of
the experiences of our livestogether and something that
doesn't seem connected at all infact positions and prepares us
for something so much later.
Josiah, you are leading at adifferent level than you did a
(31:28):
few years ago, and a few yearsfrom now, your team is going to
need you to lead at a higherlevel still.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
How do you level up with thenew skills that you are going to
need to have as a leader?
Josiah Fogle (31:42):
Yeah, that's a great question and I think that
I'm going to answer it in a kindof a weird way.
I think that there's a certainpoint where I might not be the
best fit for this team andthere's kind of an
acknowledgement that you need tomake and I think it's like for
(32:04):
me, what is my strength in thecurrent seat?
You know, is this current seat,this head of operations, the
long term seat that I'm going tobe in?
And as we scale, you know, asyou scale a company, there's
different needs and there's, youknow, when you're a you know
$500,000 company versus amillion dollar, $3 million, $10
(32:27):
million, $20 million, you know,as you scale, like the needs are
so different, like the needsare so different.
And it's it's naive and foolishto think that as you scale and
we have plans to scale pretty,pretty large that as you scale,
you can still fulfill that samerole and that same function to
the same capacity.
(32:48):
And so I envision a time wherestore builders hires a a much
more qualified and better, youknow, head of operations or COO
in that role.
Maybe it's me, maybe it's not,but the reality is you need to
be mindful that just because thecompany is growing.
You know well, as the companyis growing, you are also growing
(33:12):
, but the role and the functionthat you're in might not be the
role and function that it needsat a larger scale, and so I get
to set the stage like that's.
I think that's just somethingto keep in mind.
Now, how do I personally grow?
Um, I think it was more of yourquestion, but the the reality
(33:33):
is.
Reality is, I think it's it's amatter of, like, always
consuming, um, always consumingnew stuff.
Like I absolutely love Lencioniand his working genius podcast.
Um, that is a very helpful tool, um, I am a very much an
auditory learner, um, and so,you know, listening to that pod,
listening to podcasts, readingbooks, um, you know, the second
(33:57):
get a man I mentioned earlierwas that it was a very powerful
tool.
And then, another thing that youknow we were talking about this
offline, going attending andgoing to masterminds and
different things that allow forlike you coined it earlier, like
those mountaintop experiencesyeah, I, like you coined it
earlier like those mountaintopexperiences where you're able to
you know, cause you mentionedthat that that sort of that
(34:20):
portrait view, that landscapeview, like the sorry, the
landscape view of, like, what'sgoing on in the business, but
you know what?
It's so easy to get sucked in,yeah, and so mountaintop
experiences like masterminds oreven like seminars or workshops
I know the global leadershipsummit's coming up soon Uh,
things like that that gets youto look, step back and look at
(34:42):
what's going on.
Um, so I love doing things likethat, I love pouring in.
That's actually how you and Ifirst met.
Um was a global leadershipsummit um a long time ago, a
long time ago.
Dr. William Attaway (34:52):
It's been a minute.
Josiah Fogle (34:54):
It's been a minute , didn't have any kids, I don't
think I even had a.
No, I had a wife, but so soconsuming content, listening to
things.
One of the cool things about inmy current role is as words of
helping leaders andentrepreneurs and business
people develop their books.
A big part of what they'redoing is audiobooks, and so I'm
(35:16):
gleaning from those.
I love audiobooks and so as weput a book out, I'm quality
control, but it's also helpingme grow.
Dr. William Attaway (35:26):
I love that .
Josiah Fogle (35:29):
And then the last thing I'll say is seeking out
like mentors, um, seeking outpeople who are further ahead on
the journey, um, that can be anexample, that can be someone
that you can look to and say Iwant to be like that in 10 years
(35:51):
, I want to be like that in fiveyears, I want to be like that
in 20 years, like that's so, sopowerful.
And I think for me it's one ofthe things I've always looked
for in in whoever I'm workingwith as a number one or as the
owner or founder.
You know that that was the bigdraw to towards working with
(36:12):
Bill at Sword Builders and youknow he's.
He's someone who has a verystrong relationship with the
Lord.
He is someone who has six kids,so more than me, and his
youngest is like graduating highschool and he's just in a
different stage of life that Iam, but has been where I'm at
(36:33):
and knows what it's like andalso is growing a business.
And I'm like I want to learn,not just not just the tangible
business things, but like thelife things.
Selfishly, I'm almostpositioning myself how I want my
team members to position, likehow I want to position myself
(36:53):
for my team members, position,like how I want to position
myself for my team members.
I want to position myselftowards my leader in a way that
in which I can glean from him,because, you know, the reality
is we all get busy and I thinkfor it's.
I think I think there's beentimes in the past where I've
wanted that, but I haven't beenintentional in in, like, setting
(37:15):
myself up to glean.
I'm using glean for, forintentionally, because the
reality is, as a, as a CEO,founder, like there's so many
things going on that distractand if it's not top of mind, it
doesn't happen.
And if it's not something thatI am constantly being like hey,
bill, like hey, can you show melike how you did that?
Like can you talk to me aboutthis conversation that we just
(37:36):
had?
Like can you walk me throughthat Like?
I think the, the, the curiosity, the curiosity towards
entrepreneurship, the curiositytowards leadership, the
curiosity towards doingleadership Well, is something
that I think is probably one ofmy strengths.
Dr. William Attaway (37:55):
That it's not, it doesn't happen by
accident, it needs to beintentional, but that's probably
the biggest thing that'shelping me grow, you know one of
the things that that I'vealways admired about you since
we first met and it's beenalmost a decade ago now is the
the humility that you approach.
Whatever you're doing, you havea teachable spirit that comes
(38:18):
through so loud and clear andthat has been so evident in this
discussion, and I'm so gratefulto you for sharing and leading
from a place like that.
I believe that is what trulymakes a leader catalytic when
you lead from a placeunderstanding you don't have all
the answers, you don't know itall.
You're learning too, but youare committed to being a conduit
(38:41):
of what you're learning insteadof just trying to hold it all
in for yourself.
You've mentioned a couple ofbooks on the show on this
episode.
Before we wrap up, I would love.
Is there a book that you wouldrecommend, a favorite book that,
if a leader hasn't read this,you say man, you got to put this
on your list.
Josiah Fogle (38:59):
Man.
There's so many man.
The one that immediately alwayscomes to my mind first is Never
Split the Difference.
Great book, yeah.
Another good one is CrucialConversations.
It's a good reminder the onethat I read actually on a
(39:22):
regular basis just because it'ssuch a classic is how to Win
Friends and Influence People.
Dr. William Attaway (39:27):
It's just such a classic.
Josiah Fogle (39:32):
Obviously, there's little things in there that are
timeless.
It's a good reminder of puttingpeople first and that, like
what you said earlier, the 3dmaking sure they're a 3d human,
um, human being, and uh, there,there's a lot to that.
Dr. William Attaway (39:51):
That's so good man.
I know folks are going to wantto stay connected to you and
continue to learn from you,josiah.
What is the best way for folksto do that?
Josiah Fogle (40:01):
Yeah, probably the easiest way would be to shoot
me an email, josiahfogle atgmailcom and we can get
connected that way.
If you're listening to this andyou've heard me mention books
or ghost writing, collaborativewriting or anything like that,
feel free to go tomystorybuilderscom and check us
(40:21):
out.
Check out the website.
You can schedule a call thereto talk with the team and we can
talk more about yourintellectual property, your book
idea, anything like that too.
So there's two different ways.
Dr. William Attaway (40:33):
Josiah, this has been so helpful today.
Thank you for sharing sohonestly and so openly such
generosity that you've put ondisplay today from your story
and what you've learned so far.
Thank you for that.
Josiah Fogle (40:45):
Well, thanks, willem.
I appreciate you and everythingthat you're doing with
Catalytic Leadership.
It's been really cool to seethis just grow into something
that creating ripples, and youreally are being a catalyst, so
thank you for watching.
Dr. William Attaway (40:58):
Thanks for joining me for this episode
today.
As we wrap up, I'd love for youto do two things.
First, subscribe to thispodcast so you don't miss an
episode, and if you find valuehere, I'd love it if you would
rate it and review it.
That really does make adifference in helping other
people to discover this podcast.
Second, if you don't have acopy of my newest book,
(41:20):
Catalytic Leadership, I'd loveto put a copy in your hands.
If you go tocatalyticleadershipbookcom, you
can get a copy for free.
Just pay the shipping so I canget it to you and we'll get one
right out.
My goal is to put this into thehands of as many leaders as
possible.
This book captures principlesthat I've learned in 20 plus
(41:42):
years of coaching leaders in theentrepreneurial space, in
business, government,non-profits, education and the
local church.
You can also connect with me onLinkedIn to keep up with what
I'm currently learning andthinking about.
And if you're ready to take anext step with a coach to help
you intentionally grow andthrive as a leader, I'd be
(42:04):
honored to help you, Just go tocatalyticleadershipnet to book a
call with me.
Stay tuned for our next episodenext week.
Until then, as always, leaderschoose to be catalytic.
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