August 14, 2025 • 25 mins
Feeling overworked, under-inspired, or stuck rewriting the same proposals on repeat? You’re not lacking time — you may be underleveraging your creative edge.
In this episode, I’m joined by Brad Ball, co-founder of Ardent Creative, Verity Software, and Committed Mastermind, to reframe creativity as a business advantage — especially when combined with AI for agency owners.
Brad shares how his team used AI to shrink 60 hours of proposal work down to 1 hour, while improving personalization, speed, and accuracy. But the real insight? Creativity isn’t just for designers — it’s a mindset. A muscle. And every entrepreneur scaling past 7 figures needs it firing on all cylinders.
We’ll explore the four-part framework from his book Art of Entrepreneurs, how automation enhances—not replaces—creativity, and why agency owners must shift from overworking to orchestrating.
If you’ve ever thought, “I’m just not creative,” this one’s for you.
📚 Books Mentioned
- Art of Entrepreneurs by Brad Ball
- Atomic Habits by James Clear
You can grab Brad’s book, Art of Entrepreneurs, wherever books are sold — I highly recommend it. To explore more of his creative and entrepreneurial work, visit https://www.ardentcreative.com or search for his art online.
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
- Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:
Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
- Special Offer:
Get your FREE copy of Catalytic Leadership: 12 Keys to Becoming an Intentional Leader Who Makes a Difference.
Connect with Dr. William Attaway:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. William Attaway (00:00):
I'm so excited to again have Brad Ball
on the podcast.
Brad is the co-founder ofArdent Creative, a full-service
creative agency specializing indesign, development, marketing
and AI solutions.
He's also the co-founder ofVerity Software and a partner in
the Committed Mastermind.
Although Brad's a successfulentrepreneur, he's also an
(00:24):
award-winning artist.
For Brad, the two cannot beseparated.
Many of the connections he'smade in his business career can
be traced back to hisperformance art painting, where
he expresses his artistry liveand on stage.
A firm believer in nothing isby chance, Brad knows that the
brushing canvas have forevershaped his life, and his clients
(00:47):
are fortunate recipients of hiscreativity.
He's the author of the new bookArt of Entrepreneurs Discover
your Creative Genius.
Brad, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the showagain.
Brad Ball (01:02):
I'm glad to be here.
It's going to be fun.
It is.
Intro (01:08):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed
to help leaders intentionallygrow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:25):
You know, last time we talked a bit about
your journey and how you came tobe where and who you are today.
Today, I really want to divedeep on your new book.
I read this and was absolutelyblown away, not just by the
creativity that you bring to it,because that's a huge part of
who you are Creativity that youbring to it, because that's a
(01:45):
huge part of who you are but bythe way you captured
entrepreneurship through a verydifferent lens.
So that's where I want to gotoday.
You good.
Brad Ball (01:54):
Let's go, let's do it .
Dr. William Attaway (01:55):
Let's do it All right.
Brad Ball (02:00):
So tell us, let's start with, why did you write
this book?
So I guess overall the idea hadbeen stirring.
You know, you have a lot ofpeople in business and you have
meetings and whatnot.
They talk about, oh I'm notcreative or oh I can't do this.
But really the foundation toany business, you know, starts
with sales and marketing.
But even just having the ideato do a business or the
(02:21):
visionary aspect of a business,that all starts with creativity.
And the idea is that the moreyou tap into that creativity,
the more it's going to impactyour business.
And as I kind of started thisjourney, a lot of creative books
are more for creatives and so Iwanted to portray this more for
the person that doesn'tnecessarily think they're
creative, or if they are, howcan they tap into that more?
(02:44):
And so that's really thejourney just started with me
brain dumping and just kind ofanswering some of my own
questions, and then it just kindof evolved into what it is now.
Dr. William Attaway (02:53):
You know you hit the bullseye with me.
Anyway, I'll say, because Ihave been guilty in the past of
saying I'm just not the creativetype, not a super creative
person, and you really poppedthat balloon pretty early in the
book, this idea that I'm notcreative, that entrepreneurs are
not creative.
I'd love for you to share alittle bit about that and why
(03:13):
you see the very act ofentrepreneurship as being
creativity in practice.
Brad Ball (03:18):
So one of the first things I address, I mean when it
comes to people thinkingthey're not creative, is I ask
them if they have kids or ifthey remember their own
childhood.
And what were they doing?
You know, were they analyticalor were they using their
imagination?
And I would say 99 out of 100,if not 100 out of 100, they're
all going to say man, I wasimagining I was playing with
(03:39):
toys, and I use the story ofAndy I think it was in Toy Story
3, where he's playing with allthese toys and it's this robust
railroad sequence, and I justremember as a kid doing that
same type of thing.
Well, that's the creative mind.
But then what happens?
We get stuck in an industrialeducation system that really
suppresses art and creativityout of people because you're
(04:00):
stuck in a chair day after day,and that evolves into our
business life that we got to sitin an office chair all the time
, unless you're in a creativefield, and so when you look at
it from that lens, all kids arecreative.
And then what you see now also,as people get older, big names
like George W Bush, arnoldSchwarzenegger, jim Carrey and
(04:22):
others are now painting later inlife, and so it's just kind of
interesting.
Once you get out of that, youknow hustle people gravitate
more to that creative side, soit's always there.
But what if you actually tapinto that while you're in
business?
How would that impact your team, you, your ideas?
(04:42):
And the more I tap into thatcreativity, the more the ideas
flow.
Dr. William Attaway (04:47):
So what are some ways that you've done that
with your team?
Brad Ball (04:50):
I mean a lot of times it can be just actually doing
some creative things, whetherit's music, I mean.
A lot of times people listen tomusic if they have that ability
.
Even simple things like in themiddle of the day, going for a
walk to reset, recharge, letyour brain have the moment to
think.
And so I remember team membersin our office would just
(05:11):
randomly just take a walk aroundlunchtime or just when they
needed it, just to reset.
Dr. William Attaway (05:16):
Yeah, yeah, I've done that many times.
I get stuck, I get in my headabout a problem or something I'm
trying to write and it justwon't flow and I'm just like,
okay, you know what?
Change of place, change of pace, change of perspective.
I heard Mark Batterson say thatyears ago and I've loved it and
I'll just leave and I'll gowalk around the block a couple
(05:37):
times.
You know, just take a walk inthe neighborhood.
I come back 20 minutes laterand it's like whatever the block
was, it's gone.
And all of a sudden there's theanswer oh yeah, this and it
just flows.
Brad Ball (05:48):
It's remarkable, Like where was it before?
Dr. William Attaway (05:51):
Right, same guy Right yeah.
Brad Ball (05:55):
Yeah, so that's a premise that I even talk about
perspective.
Sometimes you have to get adifferent view of something
before you really can see withclarity.
And I go through some differentstories of things that I went
through on my journey, and oneof my favorites is I was in
college I have an art degree, sopainting and drawing and I was
a freshman and I walk into thisart gallery where this artist
(06:18):
had painted these beautifulchrome bowls and I looked at it
and I was like wow, that looksjust like chrome.
And I go up to him I said,where did you get that chrome
color paint?
And he looked at me with thispuzzled look on his face like
you're an idiot, and he didn'treally say anything.
He just looked at me puzzledand then walked away.
And then I went up and lookedat the painting and I was like,
(06:41):
oh my gosh, I see it now.
It wasn't that it was a paint,but if you look at a chrome bowl
or something that's chrome,what does it actually do?
It reflects.
It reflects.
So it was the reflections ofall the colors and the things
around it that made the color.
So it was blacks and reds andgreens and blues, and until I
(07:03):
actually looked at it with cleareyes did I actually get it.
And so that happens with a lotof things in business or in life
that we see in a tunnel, butonce we can actually really get
clarity it brings all thingsinto focus.
Dr. William Attaway (07:19):
I love that .
That clarity is so, soimportant, but it's often hard
won because the distractions,both external and internal,
never seem to stop.
How do you foster that type ofclarity?
Brad Ball (07:37):
Well, I would be lying if I said I have clarity
all the time.
I think, as people we alwayshave different things we deal
with and we're all on adifferent journey, and so I
think it's just sometimes justpushing through and going
through the process.
I, honestly, I've been in alittle funk for lack of better
terms of just actually gettingin the studio and painting.
(07:58):
I started one and I got stuckand I stepped away and it's just
like, okay, I got to get backto it and so, knowing that
frustration I had before kind ofmay hold me back, I just had to
push through.
And so I think we all deal withthat.
But it's just trying to stay asmuch into that zone as possible
(08:20):
, regardless of who you thinkyou are.
I mean, I've got people whothink they're introverts but yet
they show extrovert tendencies,and so does that make them an
introvert or an extrovert?
And so for me, I think I adaptbased upon my surroundings.
Dr. William Attaway (08:33):
Same, thing with creativity.
So what does that look likethen?
What kind of surroundings doyou put around you in order to
foster that kind of creativity?
Are there things that you dofor yourself or with your team,
things that are in yourenvironment, that help foster
that?
Brad Ball (08:50):
I mean, the thing that came to my mind right off
the bat was being aroundsomewhat like-minded people, but
people that challenge me, like,you know, the mastermind and
even when I talk aboutperspective, sometimes you have
to have another person that seesit from a different angle that
you can't like a coach, like aWilliam Attaway, and then they
(09:13):
bring that clarity.
It's like man, I didn't seethat because sometimes we're
just blind to it, and hopefullythat's what the book also kind
of allows is lets people opentheir mind to new things and
allow those things to reallyresonate within their life.
Dr. William Attaway (09:29):
And I think that's really what it did for
me.
It gave me a view of myselfthat was a little bit different.
It's like looking through aprism and seeing a color or a
color scheme that I had not seenbefore.
You break it up into fourpieces in the book you know the
blank canvas sketching theblueprint, brushstrokes of
(09:51):
mastery and crafting amasterpiece.
Can you walk through just anoverview of those four sections
and why you float it that way?
Brad Ball (10:00):
Well, yeah, let me grab it just so I have a
reference myself.
So the blank canvas itself, Imean that's kind of
self-explanatory, thateverything starts from a
beginning and sometimes you'vebeen in business long enough a
lot of times those goals getcrushed pretty quickly.
Or it's not just a straightline, it's a bunch of just
angles and ups and downs andit's a journey.
(10:31):
But you have to start somewhereand you have to just take a
step, whether that's startingout on your own or just even
doing something creative.
That if you go into a gym, doyou expect to lift the heaviest
weight right off the bat?
Dr. William Attaway (10:49):
Not so much .
Brad Ball (10:50):
No, you start with the bar and then you work up
weight until your body gets usedto it.
Same thing with art or anythingcreative wise you start at the
beginning and then you walk itout.
So that's kind of the firstpiece.
The second one, sketching theblueprint, which I have, just
some of the plans and theprocess, but in that I think one
(11:14):
of the big pieces is vision,beyond what you can see now,
that seeing the future is hard.
But casting a vision,especially for business, is
important, letting your teamknow where you're headed, and if
you don't have clarity on that,then you're not going to go
anywhere.
And I've seen that in business.
I've seen that in ministry andchurches, where a leader didn't
(11:40):
have a vision for where theywere going and they were content
basically where they were.
So it just stayed the same andit stagnated.
And so, even if you're if, evenif you don't know where you're
headed, as long as you'repushing towards something that
people can grab a hold of, Ithink is vitally important.
So then the next one, um,brushstrokes of mastery.
(12:01):
I mean that's just allnavigating.
I have the artist ability, theartist strategy, and one in
particular is the art of AI, andso how that navigates is, if
you think about AI, which is thebig craze right now, that, oh,
it's going to eliminate all ourjobs, I believe there are
certain things that it can't,and one of those things is
(12:21):
creativity that it's still goingto take a human to be able to
communicate and navigate frompoint A to point B, or what that
vision actually is.
So if you're doing productiontype work, where it's repetitive
and can be automated, that'sgoing to get taken away.
But the high level creativethings being able to see things
from different perspectives andthings like that are going to
(12:44):
stay around.
And so I think that's importantas human beings, that
creativity, that imagination,really goes beyond what AI can
do, at least at this point,unless it starts thinking for
itself.
And so the last one creatingyour masterpiece.
I think the big thing with thatis you know, we're all on the
(13:04):
journey.
We're going to have ups anddowns, we're going to have
pitfalls.
I've had a fair share of my ownin 20 years and with this
business, but 25 on my own.
It's not a, like I said earlier, just a straight shot.
There's ups and downs, twistsand turns, pitfalls along the
way.
Actually, you use that If youever played the video game
Pitfall?
I'll actually talk about that,because you're jumping crevices
(13:26):
and you're swinging across vinesand it's just a fun story.
I'm a kid at heart, right, butI end it with the final
masterpiece because at the endof it all, at the end of this
journey, there's a crown, and soI talk about.
I'm a faith guy and so I reallytalk about that journey with
God and Christ and how,ultimately, this is all molded
(13:49):
into what he would want it to be, and so he's the ultimate
masterpiece in our lives, orthat ultimate masterpiece.
So all these things really flowinto that final piece.
Dr. William Attaway (14:00):
You know, I love the flow of that.
I love how you built upon eachpiece, just like you would
create a work of art, and Iparticularly like the last part.
I mean being a person of faithmyself.
I think about that verse thatwe are created to be God's
masterpiece.
You know this idea that thereis an intentional creative
aspect to each one of us.
(14:20):
You were not an accident.
You were created on purpose,for a purpose, and discovering
that purpose is one of the waysthat you allow that masterpiece
to flow through.
That's one of the things Ipicked up from your book.
I had never seenentrepreneurship really as an
expression of that, but itreally.
It jumped out, just jumped offthe page at me.
Brad Ball (14:42):
Yeah, I mean I think if you look at your life as a
masterpiece and that God's theultimate guide of that, it can
be refreshing and invigoratingto some extent that all these
issues and journeys that we haveultimately make us into that
final piece.
And some of the worst of timesthat I've been through have been
(15:05):
the best of times and itsometimes comes in waves, right,
but at the end of the day, I'mnot in control of those things.
All I can do is just be presentand willing to walk out the
journey.
And on the creative side, Imean, I think it would be
short-sighted to basically thinkas human beings and you know
(15:25):
great creation that we're alllimited to just being one thing
and we all have the same brain.
We all have the same things.
Now we have different things welike and leanings, but those can
evolve and sometimes our habitsor things can change.
It's like a book Atomic Habits.
You build repetitive habits.
(15:46):
It's going to impact yourbusiness.
Same thing If you buildrepetitive creative things in
your life that cause you to bemore present with your team
members and more creative andmore open-minded, it's going to
have a huge impact on the bottomline.
That's a good word.
Dr. William Attaway (16:02):
You brought up AI a minute ago and I think
that there is a very real sense.
I hear this more than a fewtimes in the creative community,
in particular fromvideographers and photographers
and whatnot, who are bemoaningAI almost as though it's the
enemy of creativity.
Yeah, as a creative and anentrepreneur, how do you view
(16:27):
the rise of AI and kind of wherethat's going when it comes to
creativity?
Brad Ball (16:32):
I mean there is a disruption event, but if we look
at it as a tool, it can reallyenhance our creativity in many
ways.
And I've actually been playingwith video tools, whether it's
Midge Journey because they addedit recently Runway ML or even
Veo 3.
And the ability to go in andcreate almost a commercial from
(16:56):
scratch is actually quite fun,and the outputs aren't always
perfect.
You can have the best prompt,but you still have to work
through it.
That's where the creative piececomes in.
You still have to navigate that.
And if you really watch a movie, let's say, are they little
short clips or are they likefive-minute segments?
(17:16):
No, they're all like five to10-second clips.
Every now and then you get onea little longer, but it changes
cameras.
And if you think about AI video, it's very similar longer, but
it changes cameras.
And if you think about AI video, it's very similar.
And so the ideation process,where in the past we'd have to
draw out storyboards and sketchthings out, I can actually go
through and create a storyboardvisually for a client via AI.
(17:40):
That we couldn't do before andit would give them a really good
representation of higherquality.
So if we have to go actuallyshoot this and get actors and
really create that video.
It's going to be a lot strongerthan it would be because we've
already done a lot of the prepwork and so it'll streamline
that process a lot more.
So, as it comes to this AIthings, it's leaning into that
(18:02):
creative mind to be able to seehow can these tools impact my
business in a greater way andhow does it save time.
And one of the things that we'vedone internally is everybody
sends proposals outright and itcan take hours and hours to
write the proposal and do allthat.
So we have some GPTs that we'vestacked together to where you
(18:23):
record the phone call.
Immediately that transcriptgoes into a GPT, it spits out
the initial email summary andthen that automatically goes
into a proposal that has all ofour documents, whether it's a
website, a brand, anything thatwe've ever quoted.
It's got that information andthen, a matter of minutes, it's
(18:44):
going to spit out the quote withaccurate timelines and
estimates.
But what we also do is then wehave the follow-up email created
at the same time, and generallywhen we talk to clients, we'll
throw in something personal,something that connects us with
them, because that's what we allgravitate to.
I think creativity andconnection are important, and
then the GBT is trained to gofind that personal piece and
(19:08):
throw it into that follow-upemail.
Oh wow, and so then somethingthat might have taken us 60
hours in a month to do now takesus maybe an hour and so, and
it's.
And what's funny is we havedevelopers that will get quotes
from and they may say, oh, it'sgoing to take 40 hours and we
know to double, it's going totake 80, because they just can't
(19:29):
estimate properly.
Ai usually gets it pretty closeright off the bat.
Dr. William Attaway (19:34):
That's remarkable.
My dad started a traditional adagency back in the 70s and he
ran it for 45 years.
Brad Ball (19:43):
Wow, I didn't know that.
Dr. William Attaway (19:43):
Years and I remember growing up in that
world and watching him settingup video shoots, you know like
photography, shoots fordifferent businesses and
storyboarding.
All this stuff the tools thatare now available that you're
describing he could not evenhave possibly dreamed of, but
(20:03):
enable you to give a concept andsave so much time and
dramatically increase youreffectiveness and efficiency
100%.
But it does not take away fromthe creativity, I think, because
you're still driving it, youstill have to prompt it and you
still have to have a picture ofwhat could be before you start.
Brad Ball (20:26):
And I actually think creativity is even more
important in this coming age.
That a lot of.
If you think of the industrialeducation system, why we are
trained a certain way, that goesaway to where the creative
thinking and that mindsetbecomes much more important than
anything in the past, becausewe're not going on a sibling
line that's all taken over byrobots and automations, but the
(20:51):
creative mind and creativethinking is much more important,
which is why I think agencies,uh, have a really good place in
the new marketplace becausethat's what we do.
We're in the ai more thananybody else, because I was
talking to a friend of minetoday.
They do, let's just say,construction and they're like I
have no clue about this stuffand I just went through that
(21:13):
whole proposal process.
That sounds amazing.
Dr. William Attaway (21:17):
Yeah, it's remarkable.
You know, we live in the agencyworld and we are so familiar
and are so accustomed to talkingabout this for the last year
and a half two years, but mostpeople are not there.
Most people have not gotten tothat point yet.
Charlotte and I went to themovies a few weeks back and
there were people standingbehind us and you try not to
(21:38):
overhear people's conversationsbut sometimes you just do and I
heard this one guy say to hisbuddy hey, have you seen that
new AI chat GPT thing?
You use that at all.
And the other guy was like, nah, I'm not messing with that.
Yeah, me either.
And I was like, oh, my goodness.
Brad Ball (21:57):
Well, you know, what's going to be interesting
is that the students like mytwins that just graduated high
school.
They use it and so they're onthe forefront of technology.
Now they may not use it theright way yet, but they're going
to be used to these tools, sowe have to.
For my age and up, we have tobe able to adapt and creatively
(22:20):
think about what's coming.
Dr. William Attaway (22:23):
It's so true.
Our oldest daughter justgraduated college as an English
major right and she's about tostart a graduate program in
library and information sciences.
And I started talking to herwhile she was home this summer
about AI and all this stuff.
I said you know, did y'all talkabout that at all in classes?
And she said, no, they justtold us how terrible it was.
(22:43):
And you know, stay far awayfrom it and all this stuff.
And I was like and that is whatshe believed that this was bad,
this was terrible and all that.
And I said, well, let me giveyou a different way to think
about this.
And I started showing her someof the potential and some of the
capacities of it for what shedoes, and she began to open her
(23:04):
mind and kind of dip her toe init a little bit.
But it takes that.
It takes somebody who's willingto say, hey, let me show you a
different way of looking at this.
And, circling back to your book, that's exactly what you did
for me with creativity.
I'm not going to talk about itthe same way anymore.
And I think we can see thisdisruption and I love that word
(23:25):
with regard to AI and what'sgoing on.
We can see the disruption as anopportunity right, not as a
threat.
Brad Ball (23:32):
Very much so.
Dr. William Attaway (23:33):
Brad, this is so good I'll give you the
last word.
Anything else you want to shareabout the book with the people
who are listening?
Brad Ball (23:39):
Well, I guess the last thing that came to mind is
for those that don't thinkthey're creative.
Maybe you're an accountant andyou're very analytical.
You look at those that don'tthink they're creative.
Maybe you're an accountant andyou're very analytical.
You look at data and numbers,and I had a conversation with a
friend of ours who's anaccountant and he's like I'm not
creative at all and later on hetold me he's like man, I can go
into somebody's books andpinpoint the exact things that
(24:01):
that business needs to adjust toreally impact their bottom line
.
That right, there is a creativethought process that somebody
else can't do unless they'retrained to do it.
Number one, because you've beenthere and done that but you
know the numbers, and so a lotof times there's a lot of
overlap on some of these things.
(24:21):
But that's really important toimpacting your business in
general is being able tounderstand that those thought
processes are creative in nature.
Dr. William Attaway (24:34):
That's a very good point and a great way
to tie a bow on today'sdiscussion.
Brad, I'm so grateful for yourtime and the creativity that you
displayed in sharing this bookwith us the creativity that you
displayed in sharing this bookwith us.
I highly recommend this.
If you are listening to thisand you are interested in
creativity and entrepreneurshipand where the two intersect, you
will not find a better read.
(24:55):
Check this out Art ofEntrepreneurs by Brad Ball.
We'll have the link to that inthe show notes, Brad.
Thanks so much for your timeand your insight today.
Brad Ball (25:05):
Thanks for having me.
I'm so excited to again have Brad Ball
on the podcast.
Brad is the co-founder ofArdent Creative, a full-service
creative agency specializing indesign, development, marketing
and AI solutions.
He's also the co-founder ofVerity Software and a partner in
the Committed Mastermind.
Although Brad's a successfulentrepreneur, he's also an
(00:24):
award-winning artist.
For Brad, the two cannot beseparated.
Many of the connections he'smade in his business career can
be traced back to hisperformance art painting, where
he expresses his artistry liveand on stage.
A firm believer in nothing isby chance, Brad knows that the
brushing canvas have forevershaped his life, and his clients
(00:47):
are fortunate recipients of hiscreativity.
He's the author of the new bookArt of Entrepreneurs Discover
your Creative Genius.
Brad, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the showagain.
Brad Ball (01:02):
I'm glad to be here.
It's going to be fun.
It is.
Intro (01:08):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed
to help leaders intentionallygrow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:25):
You know, last time we talked a bit about
your journey and how you came tobe where and who you are today.
Today, I really want to divedeep on your new book.
I read this and was absolutelyblown away, not just by the
creativity that you bring to it,because that's a huge part of
who you are Creativity that youbring to it, because that's a
(01:45):
huge part of who you are but bythe way you captured
entrepreneurship through a verydifferent lens.
So that's where I want to gotoday.
You good.
Brad Ball (01:54):
Let's go, let's do it .
Dr. William Attaway (01:55):
Let's do it All right.
Brad Ball (02:00):
So tell us, let's start with, why did you write
this book?
So I guess overall the idea hadbeen stirring.
You know, you have a lot ofpeople in business and you have
meetings and whatnot.
They talk about, oh I'm notcreative or oh I can't do this.
But really the foundation toany business, you know, starts
with sales and marketing.
But even just having the ideato do a business or the
(02:21):
visionary aspect of a business,that all starts with creativity.
And the idea is that the moreyou tap into that creativity,
the more it's going to impactyour business.
And as I kind of started thisjourney, a lot of creative books
are more for creatives and so Iwanted to portray this more for
the person that doesn'tnecessarily think they're
creative, or if they are, howcan they tap into that more?
(02:44):
And so that's really thejourney just started with me
brain dumping and just kind ofanswering some of my own
questions, and then it just kindof evolved into what it is now.
Dr. William Attaway (02:53):
You know you hit the bullseye with me.
Anyway, I'll say, because Ihave been guilty in the past of
saying I'm just not the creativetype, not a super creative
person, and you really poppedthat balloon pretty early in the
book, this idea that I'm notcreative, that entrepreneurs are
not creative.
I'd love for you to share alittle bit about that and why
(03:13):
you see the very act ofentrepreneurship as being
creativity in practice.
Brad Ball (03:18):
So one of the first things I address, I mean when it
comes to people thinkingthey're not creative, is I ask
them if they have kids or ifthey remember their own
childhood.
And what were they doing?
You know, were they analyticalor were they using their
imagination?
And I would say 99 out of 100,if not 100 out of 100, they're
all going to say man, I wasimagining I was playing with
(03:39):
toys, and I use the story ofAndy I think it was in Toy Story
3, where he's playing with allthese toys and it's this robust
railroad sequence, and I justremember as a kid doing that
same type of thing.
Well, that's the creative mind.
But then what happens?
We get stuck in an industrialeducation system that really
suppresses art and creativityout of people because you're
(04:00):
stuck in a chair day after day,and that evolves into our
business life that we got to sitin an office chair all the time
, unless you're in a creativefield, and so when you look at
it from that lens, all kids arecreative.
And then what you see now also,as people get older, big names
like George W Bush, arnoldSchwarzenegger, jim Carrey and
(04:22):
others are now painting later inlife, and so it's just kind of
interesting.
Once you get out of that, youknow hustle people gravitate
more to that creative side, soit's always there.
But what if you actually tapinto that while you're in
business?
How would that impact your team, you, your ideas?
(04:42):
And the more I tap into thatcreativity, the more the ideas
flow.
Dr. William Attaway (04:47):
So what are some ways that you've done that
with your team?
Brad Ball (04:50):
I mean a lot of times it can be just actually doing
some creative things, whetherit's music, I mean.
A lot of times people listen tomusic if they have that ability
.
Even simple things like in themiddle of the day, going for a
walk to reset, recharge, letyour brain have the moment to
think.
And so I remember team membersin our office would just
(05:11):
randomly just take a walk aroundlunchtime or just when they
needed it, just to reset.
Dr. William Attaway (05:16):
Yeah, yeah, I've done that many times.
I get stuck, I get in my headabout a problem or something I'm
trying to write and it justwon't flow and I'm just like,
okay, you know what?
Change of place, change of pace, change of perspective.
I heard Mark Batterson say thatyears ago and I've loved it and
I'll just leave and I'll gowalk around the block a couple
(05:37):
times.
You know, just take a walk inthe neighborhood.
I come back 20 minutes laterand it's like whatever the block
was, it's gone.
And all of a sudden there's theanswer oh yeah, this and it
just flows.
Brad Ball (05:48):
It's remarkable, Like where was it before?
Dr. William Attaway (05:51):
Right, same guy Right yeah.
Brad Ball (05:55):
Yeah, so that's a premise that I even talk about
perspective.
Sometimes you have to get adifferent view of something
before you really can see withclarity.
And I go through some differentstories of things that I went
through on my journey, and oneof my favorites is I was in
college I have an art degree, sopainting and drawing and I was
a freshman and I walk into thisart gallery where this artist
(06:18):
had painted these beautifulchrome bowls and I looked at it
and I was like wow, that looksjust like chrome.
And I go up to him I said,where did you get that chrome
color paint?
And he looked at me with thispuzzled look on his face like
you're an idiot, and he didn'treally say anything.
He just looked at me puzzledand then walked away.
And then I went up and lookedat the painting and I was like,
(06:41):
oh my gosh, I see it now.
It wasn't that it was a paint,but if you look at a chrome bowl
or something that's chrome,what does it actually do?
It reflects.
It reflects.
So it was the reflections ofall the colors and the things
around it that made the color.
So it was blacks and reds andgreens and blues, and until I
(07:03):
actually looked at it with cleareyes did I actually get it.
And so that happens with a lotof things in business or in life
that we see in a tunnel, butonce we can actually really get
clarity it brings all thingsinto focus.
Dr. William Attaway (07:19):
I love that .
That clarity is so, soimportant, but it's often hard
won because the distractions,both external and internal,
never seem to stop.
How do you foster that type ofclarity?
Brad Ball (07:37):
Well, I would be lying if I said I have clarity
all the time.
I think, as people we alwayshave different things we deal
with and we're all on adifferent journey, and so I
think it's just sometimes justpushing through and going
through the process.
I, honestly, I've been in alittle funk for lack of better
terms of just actually gettingin the studio and painting.
(07:58):
I started one and I got stuckand I stepped away and it's just
like, okay, I got to get backto it and so, knowing that
frustration I had before kind ofmay hold me back, I just had to
push through.
And so I think we all deal withthat.
But it's just trying to stay asmuch into that zone as possible
(08:20):
, regardless of who you thinkyou are.
I mean, I've got people whothink they're introverts but yet
they show extrovert tendencies,and so does that make them an
introvert or an extrovert?
And so for me, I think I adaptbased upon my surroundings.
Dr. William Attaway (08:33):
Same, thing with creativity.
So what does that look likethen?
What kind of surroundings doyou put around you in order to
foster that kind of creativity?
Are there things that you dofor yourself or with your team,
things that are in yourenvironment, that help foster
that?
Brad Ball (08:50):
I mean, the thing that came to my mind right off
the bat was being aroundsomewhat like-minded people, but
people that challenge me, like,you know, the mastermind and
even when I talk aboutperspective, sometimes you have
to have another person that seesit from a different angle that
you can't like a coach, like aWilliam Attaway, and then they
(09:13):
bring that clarity.
It's like man, I didn't seethat because sometimes we're
just blind to it, and hopefullythat's what the book also kind
of allows is lets people opentheir mind to new things and
allow those things to reallyresonate within their life.
Dr. William Attaway (09:29):
And I think that's really what it did for
me.
It gave me a view of myselfthat was a little bit different.
It's like looking through aprism and seeing a color or a
color scheme that I had not seenbefore.
You break it up into fourpieces in the book you know the
blank canvas sketching theblueprint, brushstrokes of
(09:51):
mastery and crafting amasterpiece.
Can you walk through just anoverview of those four sections
and why you float it that way?
Brad Ball (10:00):
Well, yeah, let me grab it just so I have a
reference myself.
So the blank canvas itself, Imean that's kind of
self-explanatory, thateverything starts from a
beginning and sometimes you'vebeen in business long enough a
lot of times those goals getcrushed pretty quickly.
Or it's not just a straightline, it's a bunch of just
angles and ups and downs andit's a journey.
(10:31):
But you have to start somewhereand you have to just take a
step, whether that's startingout on your own or just even
doing something creative.
That if you go into a gym, doyou expect to lift the heaviest
weight right off the bat?
Dr. William Attaway (10:49):
Not so much .
Brad Ball (10:50):
No, you start with the bar and then you work up
weight until your body gets usedto it.
Same thing with art or anythingcreative wise you start at the
beginning and then you walk itout.
So that's kind of the firstpiece.
The second one, sketching theblueprint, which I have, just
some of the plans and theprocess, but in that I think one
(11:14):
of the big pieces is vision,beyond what you can see now,
that seeing the future is hard.
But casting a vision,especially for business, is
important, letting your teamknow where you're headed, and if
you don't have clarity on that,then you're not going to go
anywhere.
And I've seen that in business.
I've seen that in ministry andchurches, where a leader didn't
(11:40):
have a vision for where theywere going and they were content
basically where they were.
So it just stayed the same andit stagnated.
And so, even if you're if, evenif you don't know where you're
headed, as long as you'repushing towards something that
people can grab a hold of, Ithink is vitally important.
So then the next one, um,brushstrokes of mastery.
(12:01):
I mean that's just allnavigating.
I have the artist ability, theartist strategy, and one in
particular is the art of AI, andso how that navigates is, if
you think about AI, which is thebig craze right now, that, oh,
it's going to eliminate all ourjobs, I believe there are
certain things that it can't,and one of those things is
(12:21):
creativity that it's still goingto take a human to be able to
communicate and navigate frompoint A to point B, or what that
vision actually is.
So if you're doing productiontype work, where it's repetitive
and can be automated, that'sgoing to get taken away.
But the high level creativethings being able to see things
from different perspectives andthings like that are going to
(12:44):
stay around.
And so I think that's importantas human beings, that
creativity, that imagination,really goes beyond what AI can
do, at least at this point,unless it starts thinking for
itself.
And so the last one creatingyour masterpiece.
I think the big thing with thatis you know, we're all on the
(13:04):
journey.
We're going to have ups anddowns, we're going to have
pitfalls.
I've had a fair share of my ownin 20 years and with this
business, but 25 on my own.
It's not a, like I said earlier, just a straight shot.
There's ups and downs, twistsand turns, pitfalls along the
way.
Actually, you use that If youever played the video game
Pitfall?
I'll actually talk about that,because you're jumping crevices
(13:26):
and you're swinging across vinesand it's just a fun story.
I'm a kid at heart, right, butI end it with the final
masterpiece because at the endof it all, at the end of this
journey, there's a crown, and soI talk about.
I'm a faith guy and so I reallytalk about that journey with
God and Christ and how,ultimately, this is all molded
(13:49):
into what he would want it to be, and so he's the ultimate
masterpiece in our lives, orthat ultimate masterpiece.
So all these things really flowinto that final piece.
Dr. William Attaway (14:00):
You know, I love the flow of that.
I love how you built upon eachpiece, just like you would
create a work of art, and Iparticularly like the last part.
I mean being a person of faithmyself.
I think about that verse thatwe are created to be God's
masterpiece.
You know this idea that thereis an intentional creative
aspect to each one of us.
(14:20):
You were not an accident.
You were created on purpose,for a purpose, and discovering
that purpose is one of the waysthat you allow that masterpiece
to flow through.
That's one of the things Ipicked up from your book.
I had never seenentrepreneurship really as an
expression of that, but itreally.
It jumped out, just jumped offthe page at me.
Brad Ball (14:42):
Yeah, I mean I think if you look at your life as a
masterpiece and that God's theultimate guide of that, it can
be refreshing and invigoratingto some extent that all these
issues and journeys that we haveultimately make us into that
final piece.
And some of the worst of timesthat I've been through have been
(15:05):
the best of times and itsometimes comes in waves, right,
but at the end of the day, I'mnot in control of those things.
All I can do is just be presentand willing to walk out the
journey.
And on the creative side, Imean, I think it would be
short-sighted to basically thinkas human beings and you know
(15:25):
great creation that we're alllimited to just being one thing
and we all have the same brain.
We all have the same things.
Now we have different things welike and leanings, but those can
evolve and sometimes our habitsor things can change.
It's like a book Atomic Habits.
You build repetitive habits.
(15:46):
It's going to impact yourbusiness.
Same thing If you buildrepetitive creative things in
your life that cause you to bemore present with your team
members and more creative andmore open-minded, it's going to
have a huge impact on the bottomline.
That's a good word.
Dr. William Attaway (16:02):
You brought up AI a minute ago and I think
that there is a very real sense.
I hear this more than a fewtimes in the creative community,
in particular fromvideographers and photographers
and whatnot, who are bemoaningAI almost as though it's the
enemy of creativity.
Yeah, as a creative and anentrepreneur, how do you view
(16:27):
the rise of AI and kind of wherethat's going when it comes to
creativity?
Brad Ball (16:32):
I mean there is a disruption event, but if we look
at it as a tool, it can reallyenhance our creativity in many
ways.
And I've actually been playingwith video tools, whether it's
Midge Journey because they addedit recently Runway ML or even
Veo 3.
And the ability to go in andcreate almost a commercial from
(16:56):
scratch is actually quite fun,and the outputs aren't always
perfect.
You can have the best prompt,but you still have to work
through it.
That's where the creative piececomes in.
You still have to navigate that.
And if you really watch a movie, let's say, are they little
short clips or are they likefive-minute segments?
(17:16):
No, they're all like five to10-second clips.
Every now and then you get onea little longer, but it changes
cameras.
And if you think about AI video, it's very similar longer, but
it changes cameras.
And if you think about AI video, it's very similar.
And so the ideation process,where in the past we'd have to
draw out storyboards and sketchthings out, I can actually go
through and create a storyboardvisually for a client via AI.
(17:40):
That we couldn't do before andit would give them a really good
representation of higherquality.
So if we have to go actuallyshoot this and get actors and
really create that video.
It's going to be a lot strongerthan it would be because we've
already done a lot of the prepwork and so it'll streamline
that process a lot more.
So, as it comes to this AIthings, it's leaning into that
(18:02):
creative mind to be able to seehow can these tools impact my
business in a greater way andhow does it save time.
And one of the things that we'vedone internally is everybody
sends proposals outright and itcan take hours and hours to
write the proposal and do allthat.
So we have some GPTs that we'vestacked together to where you
(18:23):
record the phone call.
Immediately that transcriptgoes into a GPT, it spits out
the initial email summary andthen that automatically goes
into a proposal that has all ofour documents, whether it's a
website, a brand, anything thatwe've ever quoted.
It's got that information andthen, a matter of minutes, it's
(18:44):
going to spit out the quote withaccurate timelines and
estimates.
But what we also do is then wehave the follow-up email created
at the same time, and generallywhen we talk to clients, we'll
throw in something personal,something that connects us with
them, because that's what we allgravitate to.
I think creativity andconnection are important, and
then the GBT is trained to gofind that personal piece and
(19:08):
throw it into that follow-upemail.
Oh wow, and so then somethingthat might have taken us 60
hours in a month to do now takesus maybe an hour and so, and
it's.
And what's funny is we havedevelopers that will get quotes
from and they may say, oh, it'sgoing to take 40 hours and we
know to double, it's going totake 80, because they just can't
(19:29):
estimate properly.
Ai usually gets it pretty closeright off the bat.
Dr. William Attaway (19:34):
That's remarkable.
My dad started a traditional adagency back in the 70s and he
ran it for 45 years.
Brad Ball (19:43):
Wow, I didn't know that.
Dr. William Attaway (19:43):
Years and I remember growing up in that
world and watching him settingup video shoots, you know like
photography, shoots fordifferent businesses and
storyboarding.
All this stuff the tools thatare now available that you're
describing he could not evenhave possibly dreamed of, but
(20:03):
enable you to give a concept andsave so much time and
dramatically increase youreffectiveness and efficiency
100%.
But it does not take away fromthe creativity, I think, because
you're still driving it, youstill have to prompt it and you
still have to have a picture ofwhat could be before you start.
Brad Ball (20:26):
And I actually think creativity is even more
important in this coming age.
That a lot of.
If you think of the industrialeducation system, why we are
trained a certain way, that goesaway to where the creative
thinking and that mindsetbecomes much more important than
anything in the past, becausewe're not going on a sibling
line that's all taken over byrobots and automations, but the
(20:51):
creative mind and creativethinking is much more important,
which is why I think agencies,uh, have a really good place in
the new marketplace becausethat's what we do.
We're in the ai more thananybody else, because I was
talking to a friend of minetoday.
They do, let's just say,construction and they're like I
have no clue about this stuffand I just went through that
(21:13):
whole proposal process.
That sounds amazing.
Dr. William Attaway (21:17):
Yeah, it's remarkable.
You know, we live in the agencyworld and we are so familiar
and are so accustomed to talkingabout this for the last year
and a half two years, but mostpeople are not there.
Most people have not gotten tothat point yet.
Charlotte and I went to themovies a few weeks back and
there were people standingbehind us and you try not to
(21:38):
overhear people's conversationsbut sometimes you just do and I
heard this one guy say to hisbuddy hey, have you seen that
new AI chat GPT thing?
You use that at all.
And the other guy was like, nah, I'm not messing with that.
Yeah, me either.
And I was like, oh, my goodness.
Brad Ball (21:57):
Well, you know, what's going to be interesting
is that the students like mytwins that just graduated high
school.
They use it and so they're onthe forefront of technology.
Now they may not use it theright way yet, but they're going
to be used to these tools, sowe have to.
For my age and up, we have tobe able to adapt and creatively
(22:20):
think about what's coming.
Dr. William Attaway (22:23):
It's so true.
Our oldest daughter justgraduated college as an English
major right and she's about tostart a graduate program in
library and information sciences.
And I started talking to herwhile she was home this summer
about AI and all this stuff.
I said you know, did y'all talkabout that at all in classes?
And she said, no, they justtold us how terrible it was.
(22:43):
And you know, stay far awayfrom it and all this stuff.
And I was like and that is whatshe believed that this was bad,
this was terrible and all that.
And I said, well, let me giveyou a different way to think
about this.
And I started showing her someof the potential and some of the
capacities of it for what shedoes, and she began to open her
(23:04):
mind and kind of dip her toe init a little bit.
But it takes that.
It takes somebody who's willingto say, hey, let me show you a
different way of looking at this.
And, circling back to your book, that's exactly what you did
for me with creativity.
I'm not going to talk about itthe same way anymore.
And I think we can see thisdisruption and I love that word
(23:25):
with regard to AI and what'sgoing on.
We can see the disruption as anopportunity right, not as a
threat.
Brad Ball (23:32):
Very much so.
Dr. William Attaway (23:33):
Brad, this is so good I'll give you the
last word.
Anything else you want to shareabout the book with the people
who are listening?
Brad Ball (23:39):
Well, I guess the last thing that came to mind is
for those that don't thinkthey're creative.
Maybe you're an accountant andyou're very analytical.
You look at those that don'tthink they're creative.
Maybe you're an accountant andyou're very analytical.
You look at data and numbers,and I had a conversation with a
friend of ours who's anaccountant and he's like I'm not
creative at all and later on hetold me he's like man, I can go
into somebody's books andpinpoint the exact things that
(24:01):
that business needs to adjust toreally impact their bottom line
.
That right, there is a creativethought process that somebody
else can't do unless they'retrained to do it.
Number one, because you've beenthere and done that but you
know the numbers, and so a lotof times there's a lot of
overlap on some of these things.
(24:21):
But that's really important toimpacting your business in
general is being able tounderstand that those thought
processes are creative in nature.
Dr. William Attaway (24:34):
That's a very good point and a great way
to tie a bow on today'sdiscussion.
Brad, I'm so grateful for yourtime and the creativity that you
displayed in sharing this bookwith us the creativity that you
displayed in sharing this bookwith us.
I highly recommend this.
If you are listening to thisand you are interested in
creativity and entrepreneurshipand where the two intersect, you
will not find a better read.
(24:55):
Check this out Art ofEntrepreneurs by Brad Ball.
We'll have the link to that inthe show notes, Brad.
Thanks so much for your timeand your insight today.
Brad Ball (25:05):
Thanks for having me.
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