July 1, 2025 • 40 mins
If hiring feels like a time-sucking maze and you're tired of putting out fires caused by the wrong fit, this episode is for you. I sat down with David Camacho, talent strategist at Regimen and founder of Total Talent Source, to explore how digital agency owners can simplify hiring, reclaim bandwidth, and create better outcomes with AI-powered tools and human-first frameworks.
David doesn’t just talk about systems — he’s built and led them. With thousands of hires under his belt, he brings a rare blend of recruiting experience, strategic insight, and AI integration that agency owners need right now.
We discuss how to use AI for agency owners to accelerate—not complicate—your processes. Whether you’re scaling your team, burned out from being the bottleneck, or curious about what to delegate first, this conversation brings clarity, practicality, and forward-thinking solutions to the hiring process.
Books Mentioned
- Daily Rituals by Mason Currey
Want to connect with David? Reach out to him directly on LinkedIn or email him at david@totaltalentsource.com. He’s currently serving clients through Regimen, where he helps leaders implement AI-backed hiring systems that actually work.
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
- Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:
Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
- Special Offer:
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Connect with Dr. William Attaway:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. William Attaway (00:00):
It is such an honor today to have David
Camacho on the podcast.
David helps tech founders,executive leaders and scaling
startups make smarter talentdecisions that drive revenue,
culture and innovation.
He teaches executives and eliteICs how to reverse engineer his
decade of experience in talentacquisition and business so they
(00:24):
can secure a role that alignswith their purpose.
David, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
David Camacho (00:31):
Thank you, william, it's an honor.
Intro / Outro (00:35):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the
podcast designed to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (00:52):
I would love to start with you sharing a
little bit of your story withour listeners, David,
particularly around your journeyand your development as a
leader.
How did you get started?
David Camacho (01:03):
So I learned that I am in the I know a person
business.
I know a guy, I know a gal whodoes something that is of
service to others, valuable insome way shape or form as far as
their professional skill set,and I always found that I was
making introductions to people.
What I didn't know was thatthat was actually a career, more
(01:23):
specifically in talentacquisition, and when I found
that role it was through a salesopportunity.
I knew someone who knew someonewho owned a business.
They said they're hiring asalesperson.
I ultimately got that job veryquickly because of the
relationship piece which willprobably play in the
conversation we have today.
And then from there I made aphone call to somebody at Robert
(01:48):
Half and I said hey, look, ifyou need somebody who can do
$20,000 in sales a month and istenacious, give me a call back.
I got a phone call in two and ahalf hours.
In two weeks I had an entirelydifferent career and that phone
call changed my life.
Obviously, and I've had a coupleof those moments where things
have progressed into leadership.
But I think one of the biggestthings I have noticed, even when
(02:11):
I'm thinking aboutconversations I've had recently
with people I've managed in thepast is if you weren't putting
yourself out there for thoseopportunities.
If you're not working loudly asI describe it sometimes then you
really don't get that seat atthe table that you hear a lot of
people talk about when they'relooking to make their next move,
whether they've already been aleader or they're growing into a
(02:31):
management position, a directorposition, senior executive they
all have their different levelsof challenges at getting that
seat at the table.
But I found in itsoversimplified way it's really
speaking up and letting peopleknow that you have an ambition
and desire to serve people insome way, shape or form, and the
service element is really a bigpart of leadership.
It's not just that I givedirectives or that I think
(02:54):
strategically.
It really is in the service ofothers, and so I've learned that
at different stages of mycareer.
But what I found fundamentallyis letting people know that
you're interested and ambitiousin taking on a certain scope of
responsibility that falls withinleadership.
Dr. William Attaway (03:08):
Have you always been good at networking?
I would think networking issuch an integral component of
being a people connector likeyou are.
Is that something you've alwaysbeen great at?
David Camacho (03:18):
Absolutely not.
When I explain to people how Igot started in it, I am.
I am naturally somebody who II've learned has been described
as like an ambivert, so I'mmostly introverted.
I have to turn it on.
Uh, I get drained, you know.
My emotional energy gets lowerbecause the amount of
conversations I have to putmyself out for.
(03:39):
So I have to recharge in ways.
And I was very, very shy um, allthe way since childhood, even
into adulthood.
It was actually when I became arecruiter at Robert Half, where
I had other leaders literallyover my shoulder saying, hey,
pick up the phone, talk topeople, call people, why are you
so quiet?
And it really forced me to getout of my comfort zone, really
(04:07):
forced me to get out of mycomfort zone.
And that where I got excitedabout it, it wasn't that someone
was telling me hey, do this oryou don't have a job.
That was very real.
But what got me excited aboutit was I used to describe it
like this the reason why I liketalent acquisition, or
recruiting as some people referto it, is I got to realize that
you're piecing together theworld around you, one career and
relationship at a time.
So I remember my first interviewI ever had, literally got
(04:28):
thrown into it.
They said you're going to watchme do an interview and then I'm
handing this entire scheduleover to you and you need to
interview I think it was like 15to 20 people for the week,
which is actually my goodness,and I had never done this before
and I was already very, veryshy, so it really got me out of
my comfort zone, as I said.
But I had one conversation withsomebody at a bank I think it
(04:52):
might have been Bank of Americaand somebody's loan department,
and then literally the nextinterview I had was somebody
else on the receiving end of thework that they do, and I said,
oh, you know, I just spoke tosomebody who does this job in a
loan servicing and they said, ohyeah, so I take that work that
they produce and then this iswhat I do with it.
And then suddenly I'm like, oh,I understand these people
(05:12):
better.
And then, as I started to buildthese insights from working in
finance and human resourcesbecause that's where I started
recruiting I could nowcomfortably talk to people about
what they did because Iunderstood them.
Dr. William Attaway (05:27):
That type of listening and connecting the
dots does not come easily toeverybody.
Some people are way morefocused on what they have to say
next than on actually listening, like you did there, as you do
what you do with your clientsnow.
What role does that skill playbeing able to listen to them and
(05:48):
connect dots that they may notbe aware of themselves?
David Camacho (05:52):
I was told by my clients, if I were to look at
all the feedback I've gottencollectively so far, that I'm
really good at reframing whatthey're experiencing, seeing or
hearing into what else it couldbe, which makes the problem less
(06:14):
complex.
It gives them something theycan incrementally work on to
achieve their goal and orovercome the challenge.
And it does come from listening.
If I were to go way, way, way,way back and I haven't shared
the story with a whole lot ofpeople my grandmother and my
mother they went to pick me upat kindergarten one day and they
did not announce that they werethere and they were just kind
(06:35):
of observing me to see how I wasinteracting with the rest of
the kids at kindergarten andthey noticed that I was just
observing the people in the roomand they tell me the story from
time to time when it's relevant.
But I have had this innatecuriosity since I was a child to
learn.
You know people talk aboutbeing a continuous learner, but
I also think that maybe to adegree there might be the innate
(06:59):
curiosity that people have, andlistening is a part of that.
It also takes practice.
I don't think that I just hadthis and then I became a great
listener.
That's not the case.
I could find people in my lifewho said you're not a good
listener.
But with clients, I really haveto be intentional about my
active listening, because if Idon't, then it's going to be
(07:22):
very hard for me to guide themthrough their challenge or to
their goal.
So it is something that I alsohad to learn.
I've had great mentors, even inthe past year.
I worked with an executive whohas an executive coaching
company and they were really,really pressing me to sharpen
this skill, for lack of a betterdescription.
(07:43):
It is something you have to putinto practice, much like any
form of communication.
Communication is not just thehow can I articulate my ideas
and speak, but it's also beingable to listen.
That's why you have two earsand one mouth, as they say.
But it took me a long time andI'm still trying to improve it.
But I think, if I were to lookback really far, I've always had
(08:04):
what people have described tome as pattern recognition.
So making the observation,being able to communicate it
which also took me time to learnand being able to listen has
allowed me, or enabled me, tohave the skill set where I can
see something and reframe in away that is, frankly, simplified
.
I don't try to make things toocomplex, because then you can't
(08:25):
do anything with it.
Dr. William Attaway (08:26):
Yeah, I think I love the way you
describe that is, you know,making it simple.
I think all of us are prone toovercomplicating, whether it's
through overthinking, whetherit's through, you know,
internalizing in such a way thatwe just continue to pile on,
pile on, bolt on pieces thatreally aren't there, but in our
(08:48):
minds they are, and we make itso much more complex.
It sounds like what you do isyou help them kind of clear away
the clutter and get to the core, the heart of the matter.
David Camacho (09:00):
Yeah, Would that be right?
My former CEO said get to theroot cause.
Yeah, it's a skill.
The way that I learned this wasyou have to constantly be in
conversation with people abouttheir challenges or their goals
that they're trying to reach inorder to get this.
Much in the way that youmentioned my background in
(09:22):
business development or sales,much in the way you can't learn
that skill without having manyconversations to provide a
service.
Even in those conversations,you're looking to identify what
is the root cause of why thisperson is booking a call with me
, why are they interested in myproduct or service?
It's the same thing when you'redealing with people who have
goals or challenges and you haveto be intentional about
(09:44):
listening.
But you have to listen tounderstand what is underneath
all of that.
And sometimes I had thisrevelation at one point where I
realized that people feel thattheir problem is actually bigger
than it is.
Not to say that it makes itless significant or diminishes
it, but the feeling can, as yousaid, cause anxiety.
But the feeling can, as yousaid, cause anxiety,
(10:04):
overthinking, overwhelm, and itmakes it hard for them to take
action.
So when you can hear them,listen to them and reframe it
and say, oh, actually, have youconsidered doing this or this,
or have you observed this aboutthat challenge?
And then they have these ahamoments.
They go oh yeah, so well, let'swork on that.
Dr. William Attaway (10:43):
But I simply I noticed that people
have a certain feeling, that is,it seems to overpower what they
perceive as being the problem,and the problem can be that the
feeling is overwhelming too,because it does stop you from
taking action sometimes, but itmay not actually be the root
cause of the problem.
That's good.
In the bio that I read earlier,I talked about how you reverse
engineer your experience to helpother people, whether they're
executives or elite individualcontributors or wherever they
are, to secure a role thataligns with their purpose.
(11:04):
When your clients come to you,do they always know what their
purpose is, or is that somethingyou help them to determine?
David Camacho (11:14):
Yeah, I don't define their purpose.
I help avail it through all thenoise of, again, their
overthinking, their anxiety, thestress of the job market,
because a lot of people havebeen impacted by perpetual
layoffs in all business sectors.
Yeah, it's hard for peoplebecause initially, what they're
(11:42):
trying to do is just get back tostability.
If we're talking about the jobmarket or having a career,
having income, and that adds tothe overwhelm which makes it
hard to see a way forward.
So what they typically defaultto are standard practices.
We've all been trained thatyou're hired in a specific way
and that way is I'm now ready orneed a job, I'm going to update
(12:05):
a resume, I'm going to apply toa job and I'm going to rinse
and repeat until I get invitedfor an interview and so on and
so forth, until I get a joboffer.
And then most people don't evenknow how to negotiate even when
you get to that stage.
And getting to that stage rightnow is even exponentially more
challenging than it used to bein the past.
So there's a few thingsrelating to that.
(12:26):
If we're talking about patternrecognition too, if I am of the
experience where I can reverse,engineer insight that someone
doesn't have and say hey.
By the way, because I talk topeople so often on a daily basis
, weekly and monthly in theirjob search challenges.
I can say to you you're doingsomething that doesn't work.
Where people find resistance iswhat do you mean?
(12:48):
This has always been the waythat you do something, but if it
doesn't work anymore, it'smadness Literally madness to
continue to do it.
So the reverse engineering partis I have been on the other
side of the hiring table.
I have interviewed thousands ofpeople.
I have hired thousands ofpeople personally.
I've overseen the hiring,interviewing the thousands of
people.
So I can tell you how themachine works.
(13:12):
The process works because Iliterally built them from
scratch and implemented them upat other companies.
So I'm taking my insights andsharing them.
And the reason why I do thisactually goes back to that first
recruiting job I had.
I walked into the bullpen, andI say bullpen on purpose.
It is a sales job.
Recruiting is a sales job,especially if you're working for
a third party business likeRobert Half, lee Hecht, harris,
(13:34):
ronstadt and all those companies.
I walked into the bullpen andwhat I thought was it would be
more like Oprah you get a job,you get a job, everybody gets a
job.
That was the part that excitedme the most, because, as someone
who likes to help people, Ithought, wow, if I could help
someone get a job.
I know it was like when someonehelped me get a job recruiter
(13:55):
or not a recruiter, just afriend or family member that is
such a relief, but you're alsoimpacting my stability and
everything else that earning anincome and having a job offers.
So I love the idea of beingable to go there and just start
calling people who need a job.
So then I realized very, veryquickly that that's not what
(14:15):
recruiting was technically.
Now they talk about that.
But when I got all theseinsights very quickly, I was
like, okay, this is how I canhelp someone be successful in
getting this job opportunity.
And the way that I did thisactually was not in some
tactical way, it wasn't about asystem or a process.
It was the intention.
(14:37):
My intention was how can I helpthis person?
So how I help them actuallymight be more focused around how
they show up, how they presentthemselves, how they communicate
all the nonverbal indicatorsthat you are the person for that
organization, for that team,and how do you like really sell
yourself again, because it issales on both sides hiring and
(14:59):
being hired and how can I sharethose insights?
So when I say reverse engineer,a lot of it actually has to do
with how people are showing upand communicating verbally and
non-verbally.
Can I tell you about all thetactics?
Absolutely, and that's part ofit.
I love to what I described aslike hacking the job market.
Um, there are.
Fundamentally, what I'm tryingto teach people how to do is to
(15:21):
have a conversation, like youand I are having.
Even to get to the point, asyou and I did, to have a
conversation which was I wastalking to somebody and I talked
to people at scaleintentionally.
There is labor behind that.
It does take time and energy,but that's how I get into
conversation.
So I always tell people.
My experience aside, I am notspecial, not because I think
(15:41):
less of myself, but that's how Iget into conversation.
So I always tell people.
My experience aside, I am notspecial, not because I think
less of myself, but I'm notspecial insofar as you can't
replicate what I'm doing in thisregard, meaning I talk to more
people more often and I look forwhere they have conversations
in real time, like you and I arehaving.
I look to get invited toconversations and I do this
every single day, and if you'rea job seeker and you're
unemployed, then you definitelyhave time to do this.
(16:02):
So my insights come fromconnecting with people in a
meaningful way at a time wherewe have all this technology and
we've had it for several yearsnow but people are somehow still
disconnected.
And I'm teaching people afundamental skill, which is
let's have a conversation, butlet's talk about how you can
make that valuable andreciprocal to that person so
(16:24):
that they want to talk to you.
Dr. William Attaway (16:25):
I think a lot of people are intimidated by
what you're describing.
They're intimidated.
They're not sure exactly whatto do next.
You know, and close to home Ithink about you know my older
daughter.
She just graduated college.
Now she's looking for a job.
She's in the job hunt thatyou're describing and it's a
very, very different world thanthe world I entered more than a
(16:47):
handful of years ago.
You know like things havechanged.
There are so many emergingtrends and things that are so
different, and one of thosethings is AI.
This is something that peoplewho are on the bleeding edge of
technology have been in themidst of for a while, but it's
now starting to intersect fieldsand industries, even at senior
(17:09):
executive levels that a wholelot of our listeners might be
thinking.
Well, that hasn't reallyimpacted me yet.
What are you seeing from whereyou sit?
How are you helping yourclients with this?
David Camacho (17:21):
So I interact with people who I'll call AI
specialist builders andotherwise have either the
technical acumen and or and thisis more important the interest,
the curiosity to start using itand putting time in to learn it
.
Interest, the curiosity tostart using it and putting time
(17:43):
in to learn it.
And if I were to look at let'stake my opinion out of it If I
were to look at a recent articleI saw from Korn Ferry they were
talking about, I think it was74% or more of executive leaders
are concerned that they'regoing to lose their job to AI or
some automation.
That it's very real.
What I find ironic is, though,people are kind of like, looking
(18:04):
like which AI tool is going tobe the best one and I'm saying
this sort of arbitrarily I'malso finding that they're
ironically resistant to actuallyimplementing it.
Now, I'm not saying all, but Ifind more often than not and the
other thing that's interestingis I'm finding more individuals.
Now, executives, they can beindividuals, but when you look
(18:25):
at organizations and the toolsto adopt, there's so many, and
the crazy thing is that what youwere looking at last week has
already advanced.
So now, which one do youimplement?
And it takes time to do thatfrom the decision-making
standpoint for an organization.
Well, we just implemented thisone, but then I found out that
(18:46):
there's this one.
So shiny object syndrome hasexponentially exploded with AI.
But you finding still that,while people are saying, okay,
there are, there are percentagewho say, okay, we need to do
this.
What should we do?
We're also concerned about ourjobs.
I was reading an article justbefore we hopped on here talking
about how it's going tocontinue to impact the job
(19:07):
market.
So, for folks like yourdaughter and anybody who's
graduated, there's a localuniversity that I speak at where
the professors are activelytrying to implement this into
their education, but they talkabout all the red tape to be
able to even put any type of newprogramming into the university
.
It takes time.
The problem with that with AI,is that it's going to take you a
(19:28):
year, two years, and that wouldbe a miracle at the university
level.
Ai changed yesterday and it'sgoing to change tomorrow.
So, while I think people have anawareness, I'm seeing a couple
things.
There are the people who aregetting curious and they're
investing in themselves to go tosome place, some person, some
program and learn the skills touse AI in a way that is,
(19:51):
generally speaking, probablyrelevant to them, or at least to
start them with.
I don't know what to do with it, so let me just start somewhere
and learn.
Do with it.
So let me just start somewhereand learn.
And then there are the folkswho already have some technical
acumen and so for them it's justanother tool that they're using
for efficiency and they'readding it to their toolkit.
And then the folks who arecurious and want to learn it but
ironically, won't really handover the reins to implement it
(20:16):
in a meaningful way.
And then I think quietly, thereare still the concerns.
I have a specific perspectivewhich I find that is echoed by
people who I don't even know.
When I look at thoughtleadership around this or
articles, I believe that onehuman connection, which is
actually the foundation of whatI teach my clients, is getting
(20:38):
more and more valuable.
I heard Gary Vaynerchuk sayrecently you're going to be
paying people in the future togo for walks with you.
You're going to be paying morefor authentic human connection
because of technology growingexponentially, especially with
AI, and then the other thing ingeneral is, human connection is
going to get more valuable.
So how do you replicate that atscale Problems or business
(21:01):
goals aside.
And then the other thing isthat, because there are so many
different AI solutions, reallywhat I find is most effective is
to talk to the person aboutwhat the goal is, because I have
a colleague his name is AdamLieber and he teaches all people
how to use AI tools.
(21:21):
He's just one of many right nowwho does this, and what he says
is you need to focus it on thechallenge, because otherwise you
could implement all these AItools and all it will do is
expedite the problems that youhave.
It'll get you quicker to the oh, this didn't work or there's a
bottleneck here.
So you have to be intentionalabout how you use it.
(21:44):
People are concerned and theyare losing jobs.
If you look at the Microsoftlayoff recently, 30% of their
code it's probably changed eventoday, but at least in the last
month I think it was 30% oftheir code was generated by AI,
and so what they're doing ismoving to a model where they're
pairing AI and people to do thework.
(22:05):
But my question is which isprobably what everybody's asking
at what point is the peoplepart going to get removed?
So what I believe will happenis everything that can be
automated will.
People are right now it's avery small percentage who are
getting curious and activelylearning how to use these tools.
They're going to be in a betterposition because they will have
(22:27):
a relevant skill set.
The barrier for entry-levelpositions and skills is
evaporated.
I've had people say to me youknow, I would just like a
customer service job.
I said, well, why that jobdoesn't exist anymore.
I can go use that or some otherAI voice agent.
Your job is irrelevant.
It's completely irrelevant.
(22:47):
There might be companies thatstill have call centers.
They're not going to exist in avery short period of time.
So I would encourage people toone focus on what is the
challenge or the area ofimprovement I'm looking for in
my business, even if you're asmall business.
Small businesses are actuallythe people I see adopting AI
faster and more frequently,because they're usually teams of
(23:08):
one or smaller people,solopreneurs.
What do they want to do?
I actually have a call with myattorney colleague.
He's like I'm drowning in work.
Great, now I'm going tointroduce you to my AI
consultant and we're going tofigure out what we can automate
in your business so you canactually focus on your work.
So it's really a deficiencytool.
I don't believe it's areplacement for people, although
(23:28):
, inherently, if your skill setcan be replaced by AI, it has
already and or will be in thenear future.
So, really focusing on how canI level up my skills to solve
problems, to be more efficientbecause people will be looking
at that It'll be on more jobdescriptions.
It already is and that way youcan really stand out from the
(23:52):
thousands of people in your areaI'm just saying in your area,
but it's really millions who aregoing to lose their job to
people who have these skills.
Dr. William Attaway (24:02):
I had a friend of mine on the podcast
last year, jonathan Mast, whospoke about AI at that point in
time.
This is an area he's got atremendous amount of expertise
in.
He said something that I havenot forgotten.
He said that AI is an amplifier.
It's right in line with whatyou were just saying If you are
operating in an inefficient way,if there are holes and gaps in
(24:22):
your systems, ai is going toamplify that, and I think a lot
of people are not thinking aboutit as an amplifier.
David Camacho (24:32):
Yeah, when you get into it, you'll like.
For example, right now I'mtrying to do something very
simple.
I'm setting up an AI agent formy emails because that's a
massive waste of my time.
It is not the same as having,let's say, like Go High Level,
which is a CRM, and just sendingout, you know, generic emails.
It actually has the ability.
(24:53):
This is how I'm using it.
It has the ability to read theprofiles and the information of
all the people who I have beenin contact with or who are my
connections.
It's going to read all theirprofiles and it's going to send
out personalized messages tothem in the same way that I
would, and it's going tocommunicate in my tone because
I've given it the framework forthe system.
Prompt.
This is like super nerdy stuff.
This is how the cake is baked,right.
But the reason why I'm doing itis because it's an inefficient
(25:15):
use of my time.
Where my time needs to be spentis on revenue generating
activities, yes, and having theface-to-face time quality
conversations that are requiredof me to deliver the service.
But for all the other things, Ican deliver either digitally in
some way, shape or form.
I'm going to do that right now,typically in the past, if I was
hiring a staff, they would bedoing this because it would be
(25:38):
inefficient for me to spend mytime as a subject matter expert
on that.
So I'm going to have a team ofpeople doing that and, like I
said, I find more small businessowners are a little more
inclined because they own thedecision-making, so it can
happen quicker than all of thedecision-making that has to come
to the table with all thedifferent stakeholders say okay,
we will implement thiscompany-wide.
I'm finding that smallerbusinesses are faster to do this
(26:00):
, even though they're still kindof resistant.
The people who are doing it areat a smaller percentage because
they're like hey look, I'mtired of wasting my time doing
this, I want to make more money,so help me make more money.
It's really the problem they'resolving.
That's good, but it's going tochange the benchmark of what
work and skill sets are, and itwill.
It's the same thing as anythingelse Bad data in, bad data out,
(26:22):
but now the AI will, as yousaid, or as your colleague said,
amplify it.
So that's why it's not effectivemuch in the way that any
software tool would be to justsay oh, you know, I want to buy
the most expensive HRIS systemor CRM or whatever it is, well,
that's great.
But you can go spend hundredsof thousand dollars on a
(26:43):
Salesforce license for yourcompany, but if you don't know
how to use it and you're puttingbad data into it, which is
actually a typical problem withthat system, you're not going to
get the outcome you're lookingfor.
So it's really not the qualityor the robustness of the
features it's does it work forsolving your problem.
And back to the individual whyit's important to develop the
(27:05):
skill set personally, ratherthan someone say, hey, here it
is, take this on arbitrarily.
Best is relevant to what youneed and the problem that you're
trying to solve.
And if you don't know where allthe bottlenecks are and any
other typical problems you have,it's bad data in, bad data out.
It's really what it turns outto be.
I'm oversimplifying it.
Dr. William Attaway (27:29):
No, but I think you're spot on and I think
this line of thinking is what Ihope our listeners are
receiving and grabbing onto,because this is how we need to
be thinking about these topics.
David Camacho (27:40):
And I really appreciate you bringing these up
, david, because this is how weneed to be thinking about these
topics and I really appreciateyou bringing these up, david,
you know in line oh, sorry,sorry to interrupt you.
Hit pause, no, go for it.
In line with this is people are, and when I say people, I mean
if you look at the top 50largest and best companies to
work at, according to LinkedIn.
They published an article onthat about two months ago.
(28:01):
If you look at the top 10, asan example, they're all hiring
skills-based workers.
Why is this important?
Because AI is going to be oneof those skills they look for.
That's right.
Actually, companies like Amazontwo years ago, were investing
in giving free AI education.
For this reason, they like tobe ahead of the curve for
basically everything.
But as an example, thesecompanies you will see the skill
(28:24):
as a requirement more and moreand more.
As I said, it's going to changethe benchmark of what an
entry-level position will be,but this will also be.
You can develop a specializedapplication for problem solving
based on your expertise or yourarea of interest.
You know we talked aboutpurpose and using AI to do that
effectively, but the generalistskill set, I think, is, while I
(28:50):
could argue for, strategically,it's great to have awareness,
but where people are focusingtheir hiring is in the specialty
.
So if you can say, hey look, Ican solve your problem with AI,
just with the client successmanagement aspect, okay, what
are the bottlenecks we have inclient success?
As an example, what are thebottlenecks we have in sales?
What are the bottlenecks wehave in mentorship?
(29:10):
I'm part of an organizationit's an AI company, it's called
Regimen, and we use AI forthought leaders like yourself to
take their library of content,whether that's video or SOPs,
and you can put it into ourlanguage model and you can chat
with it.
So if I you know William's busy, how do I get time with him?
(29:32):
He doesn't have time, or he hasless of it it's at a premium or
I don't quite know him.
You can use a tool like this tosolve a mentorship problem.
I want to learn from William,or I want to learn from all of
his peers and I can go chat withthem 24 seven, get answers to
my questions.
If I need to meet with them,let me book time with them
one-to-one.
There's all sorts of ways youcan apply AI, but I believe that
(29:57):
it's going to get morespecialized.
People are already doingskills-based hiring and then you
can focus on that.
You don't have to solve all theproblems.
You don't have to learn all theAI.
You're going to get overwhelmedand then you're going to go
into analysis, paralysis, andthen you're going to not take
action, which is actually theopposite of what AI can help you
do.
So I always encourage people touse it, and just even one of my
(30:18):
own AI business coaches he sayslook, just take a tool, just
one, one a week, and there aremany of them but pick one a week
that applies to you or at leastyou're curious about, even to
have fun with it.
Play with it for 30 minutes aday, hour a day, whatever you
have time for, and just buildwith it.
What's less valuable is goingto get some arbitrary
(30:38):
certification in AI.
If you are not buildingsomething with it relevant to
you, relevant to your goals,your curiosity, your interest or
the bottlenecks or challengesyou're trying to solve for your
business, then it's not relevant.
So you don't have to get intothis shiny object syndrome and
feel like you can't learn it alland it changes every day.
So just pick one to play with.
(30:58):
Usually, people start withChatGPT.
I started there.
I can now build custom GPTs.
I sell them as tools to people.
So I basically learned how tocreate a business just through
my curiosity, or create adigital product.
I wrote in one month.
I wrote my strategy guide.
It's a book All the things I hadsort of archived in my head
(31:21):
about ideas.
I wrote a book.
I started a podcast.
I have sold digital products.
I created a supplementaltraining course using an AI tool
that people can chat with me24-7 if they need to and they
can get customized action plans.
All these things solve problemsspecific to me or the service
that I want to help people with,and so everybody can do this in
(31:44):
some way, shape or form.
You don't need all the shinyobjects.
Just pick one, tinker with itfor a week, get into the
practice of it and figure outokay, how can I apply this in my
way?
That?
Maybe it's for my hobby or myworkflow, whatever it might be.
That's where you're going toget the most progress.
Credentials or certificationsare less relevant, because if
you're not building with it,you're not actually learning
(32:06):
Right.
Dr. William Attaway (32:07):
I love that and I love the way you're
modeling this.
You know, and not just for youand your business, but of course
that's where you start, butyou're now modeling this for
your clients and for all of ourlisteners, helping them
understand.
This is how you're going tostay on top of your game.
This is how you're going tolevel up with the new skills
that the next chapter is goingto require of you and demand of
(32:28):
you.
I love that you are leading theway in that and not just
talking about it or encouragingother people to do it.
David Camacho (32:36):
That's the one thing about me that you know.
Back to the earlier observationyou made, I don't like to do
things that are so complex thatyou can't take action.
And if it is complex, how canwe break it down?
To be simple, my main goal isand if it is complex, how can we
break it down?
To be simple, my main goal ishow can I?
Because I mean this is, youknow, fair enough.
(32:56):
This is how I think.
How can I simplify this so thatI can do something with it?
Yes, I never, ever, advise anyclient, regardless of what they
do, what level they're at.
I never advise anyone to doanything that I haven't done
myself, that I haven't also seenwork or be effective in some
way, shape or form towardswhatever their goal is or
challenge or trying to solve,Because otherwise it's just
(33:17):
theoretical.
If I want a theoretical, I'llgo spend time in university and
I do believe in higher education, but I believe in being so far
behind the eight ball, at a timewhere things are moving
exponentially, that I can't dosomething with it today, and
that's really really one of myfrustrations If I can't do
something with it today, andthat's really one of my
frustrations.
If I can't take the informationand do something with it today,
then is it really valuable tome?
I tend to prioritize that less,so I try to give people skill
(33:42):
sets that they can walk awaywith today.
If it's, I don't know who totalk to.
I'm going to show you how Ifind people very quickly.
If I don't know how to gettheir contact information
(34:07):
no-transcript don't have asystem to that it's very hard to
take action and you get intothe overthinking.
People start to object tothemselves and say, well, I'm
not good enough, or should Ieven be in the room?
Am I allowed to have aconversation?
Just people, just people.
Dr. William Attaway (34:26):
So well said, information is important,
but information withoutexecution never leads to
transformation, and I think thatthat focus on taking action is
so critical to everything you'vetalked about today and
something that we stronglyencourage.
I know both of us, with ourclients and with our listeners
on this show.
David Camacho (34:47):
I think what you said is the truest truth of it
all, which is transformationcomes from action.
It doesn't come from talkingabout it.
It doesn't even come fromawareness.
So if I pick up a book and I'mlike, oh, this is some
transformative information, itdoes not matter, Because if you
don't do anything with it, thattransformation never occurs.
(35:09):
It really comes down to theaction getting uncomfortable,
putting into practice until youare gaining proficiency.
I'm not saying perfection, Idon't believe in perfection.
That was actually hard for meto get over.
Just taking the action is wherethe transformation occurs.
Otherwise you're just talkingabout it so good.
Dr. William Attaway (35:29):
Speaking of books, one thing I ask all of
our guests is there a book thathas made a big difference in
your journey that you wouldrecommend to the leaders who are
listening?
David Camacho (35:38):
Yeah, there's a very simple one that I like that
I refer people to all the time.
It is the Daily Routines, and Idon't have the author in front
of me.
I should have thought of thatone, I'm sorry.
It's Daily Rituals and what itis.
It's kind of like a socialanthropological book.
(35:58):
It is very easy to read.
It breaks it down into smallchapters and it basically covers
philosophers, scientists,thought leaders of the 19th and
20th century, artists, creativesin general, political thinkers,
and what it does is it breaksdown their daily rituals to show
you one how they focused andsort of planned out their day,
(36:22):
and maybe that helps youidentify them.
But if I were to look at it andsort of step back, it's how did
they systemize their thoughtleadership or what they were
producing in a way that theycould repeat it every day?
That eventually got them totheir goal.
So some of these folks.
Now, one thing I don't likeabout education or quote unquote
(36:43):
, corporate America, is we havebeen institutionalized to think
that you can only operate orperform during certain hours
nine to five, arbitrarily, if Icould say that.
But all the thought leadersthat I respect, with the
exception and recognition ofburnout as a possibility if you
don't have balance.
These folks have balance and hetalks about it in the story.
(37:04):
Some of them would work betweenmidnight and, let's say, like 8
am in the morning, and thenwhat I find common with all of
them was they had a fixed periodof time where they worked in a
focused manner, uninterrupted,and it was known if they had
families.
We don't interrupt this person,men and women.
We don't interrupt this personin this timeframe.
(37:25):
That's when they do their corework and then they have time for
family.
So some of them they would workat the middle of the night,
have breakfast with their familyand then they would move on to
their social activities.
There's a pattern of this withall these thought leaders that
all of them you would recognize.
These are not obscure.
These are all thought leadersof the 19th and 20th century.
They all have the pattern wherethey have focused time to work
(37:48):
uninterrupted, they spend timewith their family and then they
have their social activities.
Rinse and repeat, they'rehyper-focused on that.
So that's why I like that book,because it shows you that there
might be someone that youidentify with.
That isn't a nine to fiver, andthey have examples of people
who did operate like that, but Ifind that most people have some
(38:08):
other thing that works betterfor them.
I have a colleague who I'mmeeting with after our meeting
and we're building anAI-empowered job market platform
which I'll share with you laterdown the road, and you know
conversation, but he likes towork between I think it's like
10 am and 8 pm and that's hiscore focus time to work with
(38:30):
clients and to build.
That's what works for him.
Me, I'm kind of like I'm alittle bit of a night owl, but I
also have family, so I have tosort of adjust my schedule
accordingly.
But I find that I do some of mybest work in the evening.
I even coach people in theevening, not because I
necessarily want to, buteverybody has different
(38:51):
schedules.
But there's a time in the day.
If you really sit down, youwould find you have like a peak
performance time, and that maynot be nine to five.
So that's why I like that book.
It's a very easy read and I'msure you'll find someone in that
book where you identify and gooh, I bet I could perform better
if I had more structure to myday or I focused it in this time
(39:11):
frame which works for me and myfamily or my social life,
whatever that might be.
But that's why I like that book.
It's called Daily Rituals.
Dr. William Attaway (39:19):
I have not read this.
I'm not familiar with it, so Iwill be checking this out.
Thank you for that.
That's awesome, david.
I could talk to you for anotherhour.
Every time we talk, I'mconstantly learning something
new, and today's been noexception, and I'm so glad that
our listeners have benefitedfrom the wisdom that you've
brought.
I know they're going to want tostay connected to you and
continue to learn from you andmore about what you're doing.
(39:41):
What's the best way for them todo that?
David Camacho (39:44):
So there's a couple of ways.
I'm fine with people reachingout to me on LinkedIn.
It's David Camacho.
I'm currently at a company itPeople reached out to me on
LinkedIn.
It's David Camacho.
I'm currently at a company.
It's an AI company calledRegimen.
I'm very easy to spot.
I make myself available.
If they want, they can email me, david at totaltalentsourcecom.
That's my DBA that I do all ofthese coaching businesses from
(40:06):
and these other services relatedto career and or talent
acquisition advising, and I'mvery responsive, so feel free to
reach out to me.
I generally I like to talk toeverybody as much as I'm able to
and help them with theirrespective challenges within
those areas.
Dr. William Attaway (40:21):
We'll have all those links in the show
notes.
Fantastic, David.
Thanks for your time today andyour generosity.
David Camacho (40:26):
Thank you very much.
It is such an honor today to have David
Camacho on the podcast.
David helps tech founders,executive leaders and scaling
startups make smarter talentdecisions that drive revenue,
culture and innovation.
He teaches executives and eliteICs how to reverse engineer his
decade of experience in talentacquisition and business so they
(00:24):
can secure a role that alignswith their purpose.
David, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
David Camacho (00:31):
Thank you, william, it's an honor.
Intro / Outro (00:35):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the
podcast designed to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (00:52):
I would love to start with you sharing a
little bit of your story withour listeners, David,
particularly around your journeyand your development as a
leader.
How did you get started?
David Camacho (01:03):
So I learned that I am in the I know a person
business.
I know a guy, I know a gal whodoes something that is of
service to others, valuable insome way shape or form as far as
their professional skill set,and I always found that I was
making introductions to people.
What I didn't know was thatthat was actually a career, more
(01:23):
specifically in talentacquisition, and when I found
that role it was through a salesopportunity.
I knew someone who knew someonewho owned a business.
They said they're hiring asalesperson.
I ultimately got that job veryquickly because of the
relationship piece which willprobably play in the
conversation we have today.
And then from there I made aphone call to somebody at Robert
(01:48):
Half and I said hey, look, ifyou need somebody who can do
$20,000 in sales a month and istenacious, give me a call back.
I got a phone call in two and ahalf hours.
In two weeks I had an entirelydifferent career and that phone
call changed my life.
Obviously, and I've had a coupleof those moments where things
have progressed into leadership.
But I think one of the biggestthings I have noticed, even when
(02:11):
I'm thinking aboutconversations I've had recently
with people I've managed in thepast is if you weren't putting
yourself out there for thoseopportunities.
If you're not working loudly asI describe it sometimes then you
really don't get that seat atthe table that you hear a lot of
people talk about when they'relooking to make their next move,
whether they've already been aleader or they're growing into a
(02:31):
management position, a directorposition, senior executive they
all have their different levelsof challenges at getting that
seat at the table.
But I found in itsoversimplified way it's really
speaking up and letting peopleknow that you have an ambition
and desire to serve people insome way, shape or form, and the
service element is really a bigpart of leadership.
It's not just that I givedirectives or that I think
(02:54):
strategically.
It really is in the service ofothers, and so I've learned that
at different stages of mycareer.
But what I found fundamentallyis letting people know that
you're interested and ambitiousin taking on a certain scope of
responsibility that falls withinleadership.
Dr. William Attaway (03:08):
Have you always been good at networking?
I would think networking issuch an integral component of
being a people connector likeyou are.
Is that something you've alwaysbeen great at?
David Camacho (03:18):
Absolutely not.
When I explain to people how Igot started in it, I am.
I am naturally somebody who II've learned has been described
as like an ambivert, so I'mmostly introverted.
I have to turn it on.
Uh, I get drained, you know.
My emotional energy gets lowerbecause the amount of
conversations I have to putmyself out for.
(03:39):
So I have to recharge in ways.
And I was very, very shy um, allthe way since childhood, even
into adulthood.
It was actually when I became arecruiter at Robert Half, where
I had other leaders literallyover my shoulder saying, hey,
pick up the phone, talk topeople, call people, why are you
so quiet?
And it really forced me to getout of my comfort zone, really
(04:07):
forced me to get out of mycomfort zone.
And that where I got excitedabout it, it wasn't that someone
was telling me hey, do this oryou don't have a job.
That was very real.
But what got me excited aboutit was I used to describe it
like this the reason why I liketalent acquisition, or
recruiting as some people referto it, is I got to realize that
you're piecing together theworld around you, one career and
relationship at a time.
So I remember my first interviewI ever had, literally got
(04:28):
thrown into it.
They said you're going to watchme do an interview and then I'm
handing this entire scheduleover to you and you need to
interview I think it was like 15to 20 people for the week,
which is actually my goodness,and I had never done this before
and I was already very, veryshy, so it really got me out of
my comfort zone, as I said.
But I had one conversation withsomebody at a bank I think it
(04:52):
might have been Bank of Americaand somebody's loan department,
and then literally the nextinterview I had was somebody
else on the receiving end of thework that they do, and I said,
oh, you know, I just spoke tosomebody who does this job in a
loan servicing and they said, ohyeah, so I take that work that
they produce and then this iswhat I do with it.
And then suddenly I'm like, oh,I understand these people
(05:12):
better.
And then, as I started to buildthese insights from working in
finance and human resourcesbecause that's where I started
recruiting I could nowcomfortably talk to people about
what they did because Iunderstood them.
Dr. William Attaway (05:27):
That type of listening and connecting the
dots does not come easily toeverybody.
Some people are way morefocused on what they have to say
next than on actually listening, like you did there, as you do
what you do with your clientsnow.
What role does that skill playbeing able to listen to them and
(05:48):
connect dots that they may notbe aware of themselves?
David Camacho (05:52):
I was told by my clients, if I were to look at
all the feedback I've gottencollectively so far, that I'm
really good at reframing whatthey're experiencing, seeing or
hearing into what else it couldbe, which makes the problem less
(06:14):
complex.
It gives them something theycan incrementally work on to
achieve their goal and orovercome the challenge.
And it does come from listening.
If I were to go way, way, way,way back and I haven't shared
the story with a whole lot ofpeople my grandmother and my
mother they went to pick me upat kindergarten one day and they
did not announce that they werethere and they were just kind
(06:35):
of observing me to see how I wasinteracting with the rest of
the kids at kindergarten andthey noticed that I was just
observing the people in the roomand they tell me the story from
time to time when it's relevant.
But I have had this innatecuriosity since I was a child to
learn.
You know people talk aboutbeing a continuous learner, but
I also think that maybe to adegree there might be the innate
(06:59):
curiosity that people have, andlistening is a part of that.
It also takes practice.
I don't think that I just hadthis and then I became a great
listener.
That's not the case.
I could find people in my lifewho said you're not a good
listener.
But with clients, I really haveto be intentional about my
active listening, because if Idon't, then it's going to be
(07:22):
very hard for me to guide themthrough their challenge or to
their goal.
So it is something that I alsohad to learn.
I've had great mentors, even inthe past year.
I worked with an executive whohas an executive coaching
company and they were really,really pressing me to sharpen
this skill, for lack of a betterdescription.
(07:43):
It is something you have to putinto practice, much like any
form of communication.
Communication is not just thehow can I articulate my ideas
and speak, but it's also beingable to listen.
That's why you have two earsand one mouth, as they say.
But it took me a long time andI'm still trying to improve it.
But I think, if I were to lookback really far, I've always had
(08:04):
what people have described tome as pattern recognition.
So making the observation,being able to communicate it
which also took me time to learnand being able to listen has
allowed me, or enabled me, tohave the skill set where I can
see something and reframe in away that is, frankly, simplified
.
I don't try to make things toocomplex, because then you can't
(08:25):
do anything with it.
Dr. William Attaway (08:26):
Yeah, I think I love the way you
describe that is, you know,making it simple.
I think all of us are prone toovercomplicating, whether it's
through overthinking, whetherit's through, you know,
internalizing in such a way thatwe just continue to pile on,
pile on, bolt on pieces thatreally aren't there, but in our
(08:48):
minds they are, and we make itso much more complex.
It sounds like what you do isyou help them kind of clear away
the clutter and get to the core, the heart of the matter.
David Camacho (09:00):
Yeah, Would that be right?
My former CEO said get to theroot cause.
Yeah, it's a skill.
The way that I learned this wasyou have to constantly be in
conversation with people abouttheir challenges or their goals
that they're trying to reach inorder to get this.
Much in the way that youmentioned my background in
(09:22):
business development or sales,much in the way you can't learn
that skill without having manyconversations to provide a
service.
Even in those conversations,you're looking to identify what
is the root cause of why thisperson is booking a call with me
, why are they interested in myproduct or service?
It's the same thing when you'redealing with people who have
goals or challenges and you haveto be intentional about
(09:44):
listening.
But you have to listen tounderstand what is underneath
all of that.
And sometimes I had thisrevelation at one point where I
realized that people feel thattheir problem is actually bigger
than it is.
Not to say that it makes itless significant or diminishes
it, but the feeling can, as yousaid, cause anxiety.
But the feeling can, as yousaid, cause anxiety,
(10:04):
overthinking, overwhelm, and itmakes it hard for them to take
action.
So when you can hear them,listen to them and reframe it
and say, oh, actually, have youconsidered doing this or this,
or have you observed this aboutthat challenge?
And then they have these ahamoments.
They go oh yeah, so well, let'swork on that.
Dr. William Attaway (10:43):
But I simply I noticed that people
have a certain feeling, that is,it seems to overpower what they
perceive as being the problem,and the problem can be that the
feeling is overwhelming too,because it does stop you from
taking action sometimes, but itmay not actually be the root
cause of the problem.
That's good.
In the bio that I read earlier,I talked about how you reverse
engineer your experience to helpother people, whether they're
executives or elite individualcontributors or wherever they
are, to secure a role thataligns with their purpose.
(11:04):
When your clients come to you,do they always know what their
purpose is, or is that somethingyou help them to determine?
David Camacho (11:14):
Yeah, I don't define their purpose.
I help avail it through all thenoise of, again, their
overthinking, their anxiety, thestress of the job market,
because a lot of people havebeen impacted by perpetual
layoffs in all business sectors.
Yeah, it's hard for peoplebecause initially, what they're
(11:42):
trying to do is just get back tostability.
If we're talking about the jobmarket or having a career,
having income, and that adds tothe overwhelm which makes it
hard to see a way forward.
So what they typically defaultto are standard practices.
We've all been trained thatyou're hired in a specific way
and that way is I'm now ready orneed a job, I'm going to update
(12:05):
a resume, I'm going to apply toa job and I'm going to rinse
and repeat until I get invitedfor an interview and so on and
so forth, until I get a joboffer.
And then most people don't evenknow how to negotiate even when
you get to that stage.
And getting to that stage rightnow is even exponentially more
challenging than it used to bein the past.
So there's a few thingsrelating to that.
(12:26):
If we're talking about patternrecognition too, if I am of the
experience where I can reverse,engineer insight that someone
doesn't have and say hey.
By the way, because I talk topeople so often on a daily basis
, weekly and monthly in theirjob search challenges.
I can say to you you're doingsomething that doesn't work.
Where people find resistance iswhat do you mean?
(12:48):
This has always been the waythat you do something, but if it
doesn't work anymore, it'smadness Literally madness to
continue to do it.
So the reverse engineering partis I have been on the other
side of the hiring table.
I have interviewed thousands ofpeople.
I have hired thousands ofpeople personally.
I've overseen the hiring,interviewing the thousands of
people.
So I can tell you how themachine works.
(13:12):
The process works because Iliterally built them from
scratch and implemented them upat other companies.
So I'm taking my insights andsharing them.
And the reason why I do thisactually goes back to that first
recruiting job I had.
I walked into the bullpen, andI say bullpen on purpose.
It is a sales job.
Recruiting is a sales job,especially if you're working for
a third party business likeRobert Half, lee Hecht, harris,
(13:34):
ronstadt and all those companies.
I walked into the bullpen andwhat I thought was it would be
more like Oprah you get a job,you get a job, everybody gets a
job.
That was the part that excitedme the most, because, as someone
who likes to help people, Ithought, wow, if I could help
someone get a job.
I know it was like when someonehelped me get a job recruiter
(13:55):
or not a recruiter, just afriend or family member that is
such a relief, but you're alsoimpacting my stability and
everything else that earning anincome and having a job offers.
So I love the idea of beingable to go there and just start
calling people who need a job.
So then I realized very, veryquickly that that's not what
(14:15):
recruiting was technically.
Now they talk about that.
But when I got all theseinsights very quickly, I was
like, okay, this is how I canhelp someone be successful in
getting this job opportunity.
And the way that I did thisactually was not in some
tactical way, it wasn't about asystem or a process.
It was the intention.
(14:37):
My intention was how can I helpthis person?
So how I help them actuallymight be more focused around how
they show up, how they presentthemselves, how they communicate
all the nonverbal indicatorsthat you are the person for that
organization, for that team,and how do you like really sell
yourself again, because it issales on both sides hiring and
(14:59):
being hired and how can I sharethose insights?
So when I say reverse engineer,a lot of it actually has to do
with how people are showing upand communicating verbally and
non-verbally.
Can I tell you about all thetactics?
Absolutely, and that's part ofit.
I love to what I described aslike hacking the job market.
Um, there are.
Fundamentally, what I'm tryingto teach people how to do is to
(15:21):
have a conversation, like youand I are having.
Even to get to the point, asyou and I did, to have a
conversation which was I wastalking to somebody and I talked
to people at scaleintentionally.
There is labor behind that.
It does take time and energy,but that's how I get into
conversation.
So I always tell people.
My experience aside, I am notspecial, not because I think
(15:41):
less of myself, but that's how Iget into conversation.
So I always tell people.
My experience aside, I am notspecial, not because I think
less of myself, but I'm notspecial insofar as you can't
replicate what I'm doing in thisregard, meaning I talk to more
people more often and I look forwhere they have conversations
in real time, like you and I arehaving.
I look to get invited toconversations and I do this
every single day, and if you'rea job seeker and you're
unemployed, then you definitelyhave time to do this.
(16:02):
So my insights come fromconnecting with people in a
meaningful way at a time wherewe have all this technology and
we've had it for several yearsnow but people are somehow still
disconnected.
And I'm teaching people afundamental skill, which is
let's have a conversation, butlet's talk about how you can
make that valuable andreciprocal to that person so
(16:24):
that they want to talk to you.
Dr. William Attaway (16:25):
I think a lot of people are intimidated by
what you're describing.
They're intimidated.
They're not sure exactly whatto do next.
You know, and close to home Ithink about you know my older
daughter.
She just graduated college.
Now she's looking for a job.
She's in the job hunt thatyou're describing and it's a
very, very different world thanthe world I entered more than a
(16:47):
handful of years ago.
You know like things havechanged.
There are so many emergingtrends and things that are so
different, and one of thosethings is AI.
This is something that peoplewho are on the bleeding edge of
technology have been in themidst of for a while, but it's
now starting to intersect fieldsand industries, even at senior
(17:09):
executive levels that a wholelot of our listeners might be
thinking.
Well, that hasn't reallyimpacted me yet.
What are you seeing from whereyou sit?
How are you helping yourclients with this?
David Camacho (17:21):
So I interact with people who I'll call AI
specialist builders andotherwise have either the
technical acumen and or and thisis more important the interest,
the curiosity to start using itand putting time in to learn it
.
Interest, the curiosity tostart using it and putting time
(17:43):
in to learn it.
And if I were to look at let'stake my opinion out of it If I
were to look at a recent articleI saw from Korn Ferry they were
talking about, I think it was74% or more of executive leaders
are concerned that they'regoing to lose their job to AI or
some automation.
That it's very real.
What I find ironic is, though,people are kind of like, looking
(18:04):
like which AI tool is going tobe the best one and I'm saying
this sort of arbitrarily I'malso finding that they're
ironically resistant to actuallyimplementing it.
Now, I'm not saying all, but Ifind more often than not and the
other thing that's interestingis I'm finding more individuals.
Now, executives, they can beindividuals, but when you look
(18:25):
at organizations and the toolsto adopt, there's so many, and
the crazy thing is that what youwere looking at last week has
already advanced.
So now, which one do youimplement?
And it takes time to do thatfrom the decision-making
standpoint for an organization.
Well, we just implemented thisone, but then I found out that
(18:46):
there's this one.
So shiny object syndrome hasexponentially exploded with AI.
But you finding still that,while people are saying, okay,
there are, there are percentagewho say, okay, we need to do
this.
What should we do?
We're also concerned about ourjobs.
I was reading an article justbefore we hopped on here talking
about how it's going tocontinue to impact the job
(19:07):
market.
So, for folks like yourdaughter and anybody who's
graduated, there's a localuniversity that I speak at where
the professors are activelytrying to implement this into
their education, but they talkabout all the red tape to be
able to even put any type of newprogramming into the university
.
It takes time.
The problem with that with AI,is that it's going to take you a
(19:28):
year, two years, and that wouldbe a miracle at the university
level.
Ai changed yesterday and it'sgoing to change tomorrow.
So, while I think people have anawareness, I'm seeing a couple
things.
There are the people who aregetting curious and they're
investing in themselves to go tosome place, some person, some
program and learn the skills touse AI in a way that is,
(19:51):
generally speaking, probablyrelevant to them, or at least to
start them with.
I don't know what to do with it, so let me just start somewhere
and learn.
Do with it.
So let me just start somewhereand learn.
And then there are the folkswho already have some technical
acumen and so for them it's justanother tool that they're using
for efficiency and they'readding it to their toolkit.
And then the folks who arecurious and want to learn it but
ironically, won't really handover the reins to implement it
(20:16):
in a meaningful way.
And then I think quietly, thereare still the concerns.
I have a specific perspectivewhich I find that is echoed by
people who I don't even know.
When I look at thoughtleadership around this or
articles, I believe that onehuman connection, which is
actually the foundation of whatI teach my clients, is getting
(20:38):
more and more valuable.
I heard Gary Vaynerchuk sayrecently you're going to be
paying people in the future togo for walks with you.
You're going to be paying morefor authentic human connection
because of technology growingexponentially, especially with
AI, and then the other thing ingeneral is, human connection is
going to get more valuable.
So how do you replicate that atscale Problems or business
(21:01):
goals aside.
And then the other thing isthat, because there are so many
different AI solutions, reallywhat I find is most effective is
to talk to the person aboutwhat the goal is, because I have
a colleague his name is AdamLieber and he teaches all people
how to use AI tools.
(21:21):
He's just one of many right nowwho does this, and what he says
is you need to focus it on thechallenge, because otherwise you
could implement all these AItools and all it will do is
expedite the problems that youhave.
It'll get you quicker to the oh, this didn't work or there's a
bottleneck here.
So you have to be intentionalabout how you use it.
(21:44):
People are concerned and theyare losing jobs.
If you look at the Microsoftlayoff recently, 30% of their
code it's probably changed eventoday, but at least in the last
month I think it was 30% oftheir code was generated by AI,
and so what they're doing ismoving to a model where they're
pairing AI and people to do thework.
(22:05):
But my question is which isprobably what everybody's asking
at what point is the peoplepart going to get removed?
So what I believe will happenis everything that can be
automated will.
People are right now it's avery small percentage who are
getting curious and activelylearning how to use these tools.
They're going to be in a betterposition because they will have
(22:27):
a relevant skill set.
The barrier for entry-levelpositions and skills is
evaporated.
I've had people say to me youknow, I would just like a
customer service job.
I said, well, why that jobdoesn't exist anymore.
I can go use that or some otherAI voice agent.
Your job is irrelevant.
It's completely irrelevant.
(22:47):
There might be companies thatstill have call centers.
They're not going to exist in avery short period of time.
So I would encourage people toone focus on what is the
challenge or the area ofimprovement I'm looking for in
my business, even if you're asmall business.
Small businesses are actuallythe people I see adopting AI
faster and more frequently,because they're usually teams of
(23:08):
one or smaller people,solopreneurs.
What do they want to do?
I actually have a call with myattorney colleague.
He's like I'm drowning in work.
Great, now I'm going tointroduce you to my AI
consultant and we're going tofigure out what we can automate
in your business so you canactually focus on your work.
So it's really a deficiencytool.
I don't believe it's areplacement for people, although
(23:28):
, inherently, if your skill setcan be replaced by AI, it has
already and or will be in thenear future.
So, really focusing on how canI level up my skills to solve
problems, to be more efficientbecause people will be looking
at that It'll be on more jobdescriptions.
It already is and that way youcan really stand out from the
(23:52):
thousands of people in your areaI'm just saying in your area,
but it's really millions who aregoing to lose their job to
people who have these skills.
Dr. William Attaway (24:02):
I had a friend of mine on the podcast
last year, jonathan Mast, whospoke about AI at that point in
time.
This is an area he's got atremendous amount of expertise
in.
He said something that I havenot forgotten.
He said that AI is an amplifier.
It's right in line with whatyou were just saying If you are
operating in an inefficient way,if there are holes and gaps in
(24:22):
your systems, ai is going toamplify that, and I think a lot
of people are not thinking aboutit as an amplifier.
David Camacho (24:32):
Yeah, when you get into it, you'll like.
For example, right now I'mtrying to do something very
simple.
I'm setting up an AI agent formy emails because that's a
massive waste of my time.
It is not the same as having,let's say, like Go High Level,
which is a CRM, and just sendingout, you know, generic emails.
It actually has the ability.
(24:53):
This is how I'm using it.
It has the ability to read theprofiles and the information of
all the people who I have beenin contact with or who are my
connections.
It's going to read all theirprofiles and it's going to send
out personalized messages tothem in the same way that I
would, and it's going tocommunicate in my tone because
I've given it the framework forthe system.
Prompt.
This is like super nerdy stuff.
This is how the cake is baked,right.
But the reason why I'm doing itis because it's an inefficient
(25:15):
use of my time.
Where my time needs to be spentis on revenue generating
activities, yes, and having theface-to-face time quality
conversations that are requiredof me to deliver the service.
But for all the other things, Ican deliver either digitally in
some way, shape or form.
I'm going to do that right now,typically in the past, if I was
hiring a staff, they would bedoing this because it would be
(25:38):
inefficient for me to spend mytime as a subject matter expert
on that.
So I'm going to have a team ofpeople doing that and, like I
said, I find more small businessowners are a little more
inclined because they own thedecision-making, so it can
happen quicker than all of thedecision-making that has to come
to the table with all thedifferent stakeholders say okay,
we will implement thiscompany-wide.
I'm finding that smallerbusinesses are faster to do this
(26:00):
, even though they're still kindof resistant.
The people who are doing it areat a smaller percentage because
they're like hey look, I'mtired of wasting my time doing
this, I want to make more money,so help me make more money.
It's really the problem they'resolving.
That's good, but it's going tochange the benchmark of what
work and skill sets are, and itwill.
It's the same thing as anythingelse Bad data in, bad data out,
(26:22):
but now the AI will, as yousaid, or as your colleague said,
amplify it.
So that's why it's not effectivemuch in the way that any
software tool would be to justsay oh, you know, I want to buy
the most expensive HRIS systemor CRM or whatever it is, well,
that's great.
But you can go spend hundredsof thousand dollars on a
(26:43):
Salesforce license for yourcompany, but if you don't know
how to use it and you're puttingbad data into it, which is
actually a typical problem withthat system, you're not going to
get the outcome you're lookingfor.
So it's really not the qualityor the robustness of the
features it's does it work forsolving your problem.
And back to the individual whyit's important to develop the
(27:05):
skill set personally, ratherthan someone say, hey, here it
is, take this on arbitrarily.
Best is relevant to what youneed and the problem that you're
trying to solve.
And if you don't know where allthe bottlenecks are and any
other typical problems you have,it's bad data in, bad data out.
It's really what it turns outto be.
I'm oversimplifying it.
Dr. William Attaway (27:29):
No, but I think you're spot on and I think
this line of thinking is what Ihope our listeners are
receiving and grabbing onto,because this is how we need to
be thinking about these topics.
David Camacho (27:40):
And I really appreciate you bringing these up
, david, because this is how weneed to be thinking about these
topics and I really appreciateyou bringing these up, david,
you know in line oh, sorry,sorry to interrupt you.
Hit pause, no, go for it.
In line with this is people are, and when I say people, I mean
if you look at the top 50largest and best companies to
work at, according to LinkedIn.
They published an article onthat about two months ago.
(28:01):
If you look at the top 10, asan example, they're all hiring
skills-based workers.
Why is this important?
Because AI is going to be oneof those skills they look for.
That's right.
Actually, companies like Amazontwo years ago, were investing
in giving free AI education.
For this reason, they like tobe ahead of the curve for
basically everything.
But as an example, thesecompanies you will see the skill
(28:24):
as a requirement more and moreand more.
As I said, it's going to changethe benchmark of what an
entry-level position will be,but this will also be.
You can develop a specializedapplication for problem solving
based on your expertise or yourarea of interest.
You know we talked aboutpurpose and using AI to do that
effectively, but the generalistskill set, I think, is, while I
(28:50):
could argue for, strategically,it's great to have awareness,
but where people are focusingtheir hiring is in the specialty
.
So if you can say, hey look, Ican solve your problem with AI,
just with the client successmanagement aspect, okay, what
are the bottlenecks we have inclient success?
As an example, what are thebottlenecks we have in sales?
What are the bottlenecks wehave in mentorship?
(29:10):
I'm part of an organizationit's an AI company, it's called
Regimen, and we use AI forthought leaders like yourself to
take their library of content,whether that's video or SOPs,
and you can put it into ourlanguage model and you can chat
with it.
So if I you know William's busy, how do I get time with him?
(29:32):
He doesn't have time, or he hasless of it it's at a premium or
I don't quite know him.
You can use a tool like this tosolve a mentorship problem.
I want to learn from William,or I want to learn from all of
his peers and I can go chat withthem 24 seven, get answers to
my questions.
If I need to meet with them,let me book time with them
one-to-one.
There's all sorts of ways youcan apply AI, but I believe that
(29:57):
it's going to get morespecialized.
People are already doingskills-based hiring and then you
can focus on that.
You don't have to solve all theproblems.
You don't have to learn all theAI.
You're going to get overwhelmedand then you're going to go
into analysis, paralysis, andthen you're going to not take
action, which is actually theopposite of what AI can help you
do.
So I always encourage people touse it, and just even one of my
(30:18):
own AI business coaches he sayslook, just take a tool, just
one, one a week, and there aremany of them but pick one a week
that applies to you or at leastyou're curious about, even to
have fun with it.
Play with it for 30 minutes aday, hour a day, whatever you
have time for, and just buildwith it.
What's less valuable is goingto get some arbitrary
(30:38):
certification in AI.
If you are not buildingsomething with it relevant to
you, relevant to your goals,your curiosity, your interest or
the bottlenecks or challengesyou're trying to solve for your
business, then it's not relevant.
So you don't have to get intothis shiny object syndrome and
feel like you can't learn it alland it changes every day.
So just pick one to play with.
(30:58):
Usually, people start withChatGPT.
I started there.
I can now build custom GPTs.
I sell them as tools to people.
So I basically learned how tocreate a business just through
my curiosity, or create adigital product.
I wrote in one month.
I wrote my strategy guide.
It's a book All the things I hadsort of archived in my head
(31:21):
about ideas.
I wrote a book.
I started a podcast.
I have sold digital products.
I created a supplementaltraining course using an AI tool
that people can chat with me24-7 if they need to and they
can get customized action plans.
All these things solve problemsspecific to me or the service
that I want to help people with,and so everybody can do this in
(31:44):
some way, shape or form.
You don't need all the shinyobjects.
Just pick one, tinker with itfor a week, get into the
practice of it and figure outokay, how can I apply this in my
way?
That?
Maybe it's for my hobby or myworkflow, whatever it might be.
That's where you're going toget the most progress.
Credentials or certificationsare less relevant, because if
you're not building with it,you're not actually learning
(32:06):
Right.
Dr. William Attaway (32:07):
I love that and I love the way you're
modeling this.
You know, and not just for youand your business, but of course
that's where you start, butyou're now modeling this for
your clients and for all of ourlisteners, helping them
understand.
This is how you're going tostay on top of your game.
This is how you're going tolevel up with the new skills
that the next chapter is goingto require of you and demand of
(32:28):
you.
I love that you are leading theway in that and not just
talking about it or encouragingother people to do it.
David Camacho (32:36):
That's the one thing about me that you know.
Back to the earlier observationyou made, I don't like to do
things that are so complex thatyou can't take action.
And if it is complex, how canwe break it down?
To be simple, my main goal isand if it is complex, how can we
break it down?
To be simple, my main goal ishow can I?
Because I mean this is, youknow, fair enough.
(32:56):
This is how I think.
How can I simplify this so thatI can do something with it?
Yes, I never, ever, advise anyclient, regardless of what they
do, what level they're at.
I never advise anyone to doanything that I haven't done
myself, that I haven't also seenwork or be effective in some
way, shape or form towardswhatever their goal is or
challenge or trying to solve,Because otherwise it's just
(33:17):
theoretical.
If I want a theoretical, I'llgo spend time in university and
I do believe in higher education, but I believe in being so far
behind the eight ball, at a timewhere things are moving
exponentially, that I can't dosomething with it today, and
that's really really one of myfrustrations If I can't do
something with it today, andthat's really one of my
frustrations.
If I can't take the informationand do something with it today,
then is it really valuable tome?
I tend to prioritize that less,so I try to give people skill
(33:42):
sets that they can walk awaywith today.
If it's, I don't know who totalk to.
I'm going to show you how Ifind people very quickly.
If I don't know how to gettheir contact information
(34:07):
no-transcript don't have asystem to that it's very hard to
take action and you get intothe overthinking.
People start to object tothemselves and say, well, I'm
not good enough, or should Ieven be in the room?
Am I allowed to have aconversation?
Just people, just people.
Dr. William Attaway (34:26):
So well said, information is important,
but information withoutexecution never leads to
transformation, and I think thatthat focus on taking action is
so critical to everything you'vetalked about today and
something that we stronglyencourage.
I know both of us, with ourclients and with our listeners
on this show.
David Camacho (34:47):
I think what you said is the truest truth of it
all, which is transformationcomes from action.
It doesn't come from talkingabout it.
It doesn't even come fromawareness.
So if I pick up a book and I'mlike, oh, this is some
transformative information, itdoes not matter, Because if you
don't do anything with it, thattransformation never occurs.
(35:09):
It really comes down to theaction getting uncomfortable,
putting into practice until youare gaining proficiency.
I'm not saying perfection, Idon't believe in perfection.
That was actually hard for meto get over.
Just taking the action is wherethe transformation occurs.
Otherwise you're just talkingabout it so good.
Dr. William Attaway (35:29):
Speaking of books, one thing I ask all of
our guests is there a book thathas made a big difference in
your journey that you wouldrecommend to the leaders who are
listening?
David Camacho (35:38):
Yeah, there's a very simple one that I like that
I refer people to all the time.
It is the Daily Routines, and Idon't have the author in front
of me.
I should have thought of thatone, I'm sorry.
It's Daily Rituals and what itis.
It's kind of like a socialanthropological book.
(35:58):
It is very easy to read.
It breaks it down into smallchapters and it basically covers
philosophers, scientists,thought leaders of the 19th and
20th century, artists, creativesin general, political thinkers,
and what it does is it breaksdown their daily rituals to show
you one how they focused andsort of planned out their day,
(36:22):
and maybe that helps youidentify them.
But if I were to look at it andsort of step back, it's how did
they systemize their thoughtleadership or what they were
producing in a way that theycould repeat it every day?
That eventually got them totheir goal.
So some of these folks.
Now, one thing I don't likeabout education or quote unquote
(36:43):
, corporate America, is we havebeen institutionalized to think
that you can only operate orperform during certain hours
nine to five, arbitrarily, if Icould say that.
But all the thought leadersthat I respect, with the
exception and recognition ofburnout as a possibility if you
don't have balance.
These folks have balance and hetalks about it in the story.
(37:04):
Some of them would work betweenmidnight and, let's say, like 8
am in the morning, and thenwhat I find common with all of
them was they had a fixed periodof time where they worked in a
focused manner, uninterrupted,and it was known if they had
families.
We don't interrupt this person,men and women.
We don't interrupt this personin this timeframe.
(37:25):
That's when they do their corework and then they have time for
family.
So some of them they would workat the middle of the night,
have breakfast with their familyand then they would move on to
their social activities.
There's a pattern of this withall these thought leaders that
all of them you would recognize.
These are not obscure.
These are all thought leadersof the 19th and 20th century.
They all have the pattern wherethey have focused time to work
(37:48):
uninterrupted, they spend timewith their family and then they
have their social activities.
Rinse and repeat, they'rehyper-focused on that.
So that's why I like that book,because it shows you that there
might be someone that youidentify with.
That isn't a nine to fiver, andthey have examples of people
who did operate like that, but Ifind that most people have some
(38:08):
other thing that works betterfor them.
I have a colleague who I'mmeeting with after our meeting
and we're building anAI-empowered job market platform
which I'll share with you laterdown the road, and you know
conversation, but he likes towork between I think it's like
10 am and 8 pm and that's hiscore focus time to work with
(38:30):
clients and to build.
That's what works for him.
Me, I'm kind of like I'm alittle bit of a night owl, but I
also have family, so I have tosort of adjust my schedule
accordingly.
But I find that I do some of mybest work in the evening.
I even coach people in theevening, not because I
necessarily want to, buteverybody has different
(38:51):
schedules.
But there's a time in the day.
If you really sit down, youwould find you have like a peak
performance time, and that maynot be nine to five.
So that's why I like that book.
It's a very easy read and I'msure you'll find someone in that
book where you identify and gooh, I bet I could perform better
if I had more structure to myday or I focused it in this time
(39:11):
frame which works for me and myfamily or my social life,
whatever that might be.
But that's why I like that book.
It's called Daily Rituals.
Dr. William Attaway (39:19):
I have not read this.
I'm not familiar with it, so Iwill be checking this out.
Thank you for that.
That's awesome, david.
I could talk to you for anotherhour.
Every time we talk, I'mconstantly learning something
new, and today's been noexception, and I'm so glad that
our listeners have benefitedfrom the wisdom that you've
brought.
I know they're going to want tostay connected to you and
continue to learn from you andmore about what you're doing.
(39:41):
What's the best way for them todo that?
David Camacho (39:44):
So there's a couple of ways.
I'm fine with people reachingout to me on LinkedIn.
It's David Camacho.
I'm currently at a company itPeople reached out to me on
LinkedIn.
It's David Camacho.
I'm currently at a company.
It's an AI company calledRegimen.
I'm very easy to spot.
I make myself available.
If they want, they can email me, david at totaltalentsourcecom.
That's my DBA that I do all ofthese coaching businesses from
(40:06):
and these other services relatedto career and or talent
acquisition advising, and I'mvery responsive, so feel free to
reach out to me.
I generally I like to talk toeverybody as much as I'm able to
and help them with theirrespective challenges within
those areas.
Dr. William Attaway (40:21):
We'll have all those links in the show
notes.
Fantastic, David.
Thanks for your time today andyour generosity.
David Camacho (40:26):
Thank you very much.
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