June 5, 2025 • 41 mins
Most digital agency owners wait too long to make the leadership shift that actually sustains scale. They keep grinding in fulfillment mode, thinking more output will equal more growth—until their systems start to crack, their team becomes dependent, and their energy flatlines. In this episode, I’m joined by Tim Johnson—a coach, broadcaster, and Olympic leader—who shares a bold challenge to high-achieving entrepreneurs: start leading for legacy before you’re forced to.
This conversation cuts to the core of what most seven-figure agency owners eventually realize: scaling your business requires a different mindset than building it. Tim unpacks the leadership shift entrepreneurs regret missing—moving from scoreboard-based identity to purpose-driven influence—and why encouragement, surrender, and free-leading are essential if you want to scale beyond yourself. We talk about how to build sustainable leadership habits now, how to anchor your agency’s growth in more than revenue, and what it means to lead with legacy in your third act.
If you're scaling a team, stepping into your CEO role, or building a business that will outlive you—this episode is essential listening.
Books Mentioned
- Leaders Who Last by Dave Kraft
- Spiritual Depression: Its Causes and Cure by Martyn Lloyd-Jones
- Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss
- Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara
- October 1964 by David Halberstam
Connect with Tim Johnson
To connect with Tim Johnson, learn more about his coaching, or explore how to lead with encouragement and purpose in your third act, visit TJKeepOn.com.
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
- Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:
Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
- Special Offer:
Get your FREE copy of Catalytic Leadership: 12 Keys to Becoming an Intentional Leader Who Makes a Difference.
Connect with Dr. William Attaway:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. William Attaway (00:00):
I'm so excited today to have Tim
Johnson on the podcast.
Tim is a speaker, an emcee anda personal coach, aiming to help
individuals navigate leadershipin their later years with
wisdom, strength and passion.
Tim's transformational purposestatement is to inspire leaders
by encouraging and coaching themwith the love and wisdom of
(00:24):
Christ.
Encouraging and coaching themwith the love and wisdom of
Christ.
Over 45 years, Tim hasbroadcasted over 500 college
wrestling meets and has beeninducted into multiple halls of
fame.
Tim has emceed numerousPinnacle Forum national
conferences, bringing together adiverse group of entrepreneurs,
keeping things moving with goodhumor and finishing on time.
(00:45):
Tim has coached countlesshigh-capacity, highly effective
leaders, one-on-one, in smallgroups and through chairing
nonprofit boards, encouragingthem to deepen their faith and
enlarge their perspective inways that made them even better
leaders in the areas of staff,funding and board work.
(01:06):
Tim, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Tim Johnson (01:10):
Well, thank you for having me, william.
It's just a pleasure and anhonor to be with you, and I just
thank you for your focus onleadership and your excellence.
Intro / Outro (01:22):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the
podcast designed to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:39):
I'd love to start today with you sharing
some of your story with ourlisteners, particularly around
your journey and yourdevelopment as a leader.
Tim Johnson (01:50):
How did you get started?
Well, this may sound kind ofstrange, but let's start.
Go back with me to 1975 and 76.
I'm a senior at Coe College.
It's a Division III college inCedar Rapids, iowa.
I'm a wrestler and we'll talkabout wrestling probably quite a
bit on this podcast.
It's been a big part of my life.
But in 1976, it was theOlympics in Montreal and in
(02:14):
wrestling there was a movecalled the Full Nelson that most
people think is illegal.
But that year they made itlegal.
It was an Olympic year.
They wanted to promote theOlympics and that was that was
really important to me because Iwas a pinner.
By necessity I had to get mymatches done because I had a
(02:37):
problem with getting in the bestshape I could because of some
physical limitations that we'llprobably touch on.
But anyway, we're at the co-gym, at the Kohawk Invitational.
I think it was December of 75.
And my first round opponent wasa wrestler from Northwest
Missouri State.
I go out there.
My mom, my sister, my summerboss are in the stands.
(03:02):
My coach is in the corner.
My best friend and also anAll-American wrestler is up
against.
He's a couple of weightsheavier than me.
He's up against the wall overby my mat.
So I go out there and I takethe guy down and I put him on
his back and this is going good.
Then he gets back to his base.
So I'm ahead like five tonothing and then I see it, his
(03:24):
head drops.
So I'm ahead like five tonothing and then I see it, his
head drops and I sink that fullNelson and I drive that full
Nelson in and I drive it overand I go oh, this is going to be
great, I'm going to get it overwith first round of the
tournament.
This is a great way to start.
And so there was about less thana minute left in this first
period.
I'm driving it and with about20 seconds left I'm going man,
(03:45):
he's pinned, he's pinned.
I'm just kind of driving somemore.
And then about I don't know 15seconds left, I go to the
official.
I go he's pinned and theofficial goes no, no, like this.
I said he's pinned and all of asudden the whole gym heard it.
I've never heard it before,I've never heard it since.
(04:05):
All of a sudden, before the end, the whole gym heard I'm pinned
, I'm pinned.
And I mean my buddy did abackflip.
My coach started just laughing.
They didn't call the pin.
I'm ahead 8 nothing.
After the first period and,true to my form, I crawled off
(04:28):
the match.
After the third period I woneight to seven.
Okay, wow, and I used to tellthat story all the time.
William, like a good pastorfriend of mine, says about
theological things, and besidesthat it's true.
I used to tell it just becauseit's true.
And yet that those words by himhave impacted me more than any
(04:53):
other words as life has gone on.
He said I'm pinned.
Now that's the last thing youwant to say as a wrestler.
Yeah, but in my life I've beenpinned several times and they've
been the most incredible thingsthat have happened to me.
I was pinned early on in life.
I um, I um from a little farmtown called morning sun Iowa
(05:17):
beautiful name, great upbringing, 900 people counting the cows.
I lived out in the country andwe had a tremendous wrestling
tradition a little later on.
But we got on the summer of1960, a brand new riding
lawnmower.
Now, that was quite a deal,novelty back then in the summer
(05:38):
of 60.
I was not quite seven years oldand unwise kid tennis shoes on
dew on the ground and I ran upbehind it to scare the person on
this that was driving just asyet and I slipped underneath it
and it sliced my leg off boneartery nerve, except for a piece
of.
And we had a 17 year old eaglescout working for us in the farm
(06:02):
and he was in the shed.
He ran, he had the presence ofmind to look at my other foot
with a shoestring, put atourniquet on, put it on right.
We got in the car and my dadflooded the car.
My mom came out from the house,we got in the truck, went to a
small Burlington Iowa hospital.
I remember wanting to kind ofgo to sleep.
(06:26):
Everything, everything had beencut.
I was going into shock.
The 17 year old made me.
It was trying to make me madand keep me awake.
All the way down I got on thegurney of the emergency room and
a doctor in a tweed coat and Iremember this came into the end.
He goes let's try to save it.
And that was the start.
I was in the hospital for sixweeks.
(06:48):
They didn't know whether it wasgoing to be a stiff leg or not
and then I had eight operationsin eight years and basically I
was on crutches half a year forseven of those eight wheelchair
another time and because ofdoctors and nurses telling me
how brave I was, a mom that wasalways by my side and a coach
(07:13):
who became one of the greatwrestling coaches in the history
of Iowa wrestling.
But he wasn't even a wrestlingcoach till he was my PE teacher.
They called it PT back then andhe would not let me make
excuses.
He would tell me what a stud Iwas, he would encourage me and
so I went through grade school,really not knowing I was a
(07:35):
cripple because of the supportof those people and I was so
young and the whole bit.
And then when I was 12 years oldor 13, I was coming back from
university hospitals in IowaCity where all of that was done
and they'd said, timmy, we knowyou love baseball and we know
that you love wrestling, but Ihad broken the same leg two
(07:57):
years in a row playing Sandlotfootball.
They said you can't playfootball and I said, oh, I can't
tell the coach he was also thefootball coach, coach Darragh,
bob Darragh.
Well, you don't not playfootball or you thought you were
dead to him and I had to goback.
We play summer baseball in Iowain high school and I went to
(08:17):
the high school baseball gameknowing I was going to see Coach
Darragh and going to have totell him I couldn't play
football and going to have totell him I couldn't play
football.
And I went up to him and I saidcoach, and he said yes, stud, I
go.
Well, that's a good start.
But I knew what he was going tocall me and I couldn't say it
on this broadcast.
You could say it back then.
But let's just say it wassomething like sissy, and I
(08:39):
didn't know how loud he wasgoing to say it.
And he put his hand up and Ithought he was going to hit me,
smack me.
You could do that back then too.
We had paddles with holes inthem.
You know, on the whole bit itwas a different day.
And he put his hand on myshoulder and he said Timmy, as
long as you wrestle, you'll beokay.
I mean, I felt like Barney Fifeon the Andy Griffith show.
(09:00):
I said, yes, sir, coach, yes,sir, you can count on me.
You know that's probablysounded ridiculous.
And he turned a kid that wascould have gone upside down,
right side up, and I committedmy life to wrestling.
Right then I knew I wanted to bea coach because of a coach,
right then at that time.
And and then I wrestled.
(09:22):
I then lost my mentors.
He left me, went to anothercoach, another mentor left me.
And that's how importantrelationships are, because he
knew that I wasn't going to beable to play football.
But what I call it is thelife-changing power of
(09:43):
well-chosen words.
I mean he was ready for me andall leaders need we need to be
ready to know the words thatpeople need to hear.
Well, I started running withthe wrong crowd and I chased
darkness for 12 years, I mean.
And yet part of that darknesswas success, because I wanted to
(10:04):
be a great coach, but I wantedto be it for me and my fame.
And I was pretty good coach andif you went to Mount Vernon
High School they'd say, yeah, wehad a really good coach, but I
left a lot of opportunity on themat there.
I wasn't a Christ follower atthe time, I didn't have much
direction and I was like I say,I was chasing darkness and
(10:27):
personal fame.
And then God picked me up outof my circumstances and moved me
to Stillwater, oklahoma.
Every Olympic sport has agoverning body.
Usa Wrestling now in ColoradoSprings was in Stillwater, at
the National Wrestling Hall ofFame, which is on the campus of
Oklahoma State.
I was moved down there, thecampus of Oklahoma State.
I was moved down there, foreignterritory.
I didn't know anyone.
I walked into a churchUniversity of the Highest
(10:53):
Baptist Church and there was apastor who was a former athlete.
Now, I'd grown up in the churchbut I it must be.
You know, I was interested inwhat a former athlete had to say
.
God opened my heart and I wasgoing.
This is the direction I need togo.
Well, I was running this.
This is the direction I need togo.
Well, I was running, I was thenational events director for USA
wrestling and I was travelingall over the United States and I
went out to New York city torun an event.
(11:13):
I went to my first um Broadwayshow.
Um, it's called dream girlsTremendous, tremendous girl.
It was kind of about the, uh,the journey of the, the Supremes
, and it was a great musical.
This group comes out.
I'm sitting there with my buddy.
This group comes out and thesong was called.
They came out and they startedsinging Fake your Way to the Top
(11:35):
.
It hit me like a two by four.
I said that's who I am.
I'm a phony who's trying tomake his way to the top.
And God transformed my heartright there, put the faith of
(11:56):
Christ in me and the journeythat started really, I would say
spiritual leadership,leadership that is grounded in
the word of God.
And um, I, um, I, I.
My life was changed.
I did have the opportunity then,uh, in 84, um to uh direct the
Olympic games for wrestling in1984.
Um and um was under one of thegreat leaders, peter Uberoth.
(12:18):
He basically saved the Olympicmovement.
Um then became the commissionerof the major league baseball
and the president of the MajorLeague Baseball and the
president of the United StatesOlympic Committee, but he was a
part of an organization calledYoung Presidents Organization,
ypo, and the Olympics were runand saved because nobody else
(12:38):
bid for the Olympics, because itwas such a financial terrible
thing for Montreal.
And then we had the boycott ofthe Russian Olympics.
And this was the opportunityand because of leadership,
because of the leadership of heand his YPO friends, the Olympic
movement was saved.
(12:58):
And then I had the opportunityto leave wrestling and be the
CEO of the Metropolitan YMCAs inWichita, kansas, and I cut my
teeth on staff development, funddevelopment, board development
and I really, really enjoyedthat.
And then I went and, butcoaches and athletes, was my?
(13:18):
Was my really the thing I wasreally passionate about?
The thing I was reallypassionate about and I went to
work with the largest publishingcompany in the world for
physical education and sportscalled Human Kinetics in
Champaign, illinois, where I'mat right now.
Wow, and I was a director of acoaching education program and
at 40 years old, with a five anda two year old, god called me
(13:42):
into full time Christianministry with the Fellowship of
Christian Athletes, and I hadnot thought of being in that
full-time Christian ministry oneday in my life.
But as fearful as Lisa and Iwere, we were more scared of
being disobedient to the Lord.
And I just retired a year and ahalf ago after 30 years leading
FCA.
And in the meantime I beganbroadcasting in 1986 for college
(14:08):
wrestling and have been doingthat for the Big Ten Network and
ESPN ever since, and that hasallowed me a platform to elevate
the things that I think areimportant.
And now I'm kind of pinnedagain because I'm going Lord,
what do you want in my 70s?
(14:28):
Because I've always said thatit's only logical that our
greatest value to society wouldbe in our 70s.
I've always said that that'sgood, and so you know, usually
we have our health, we've gotall these mistakes we've made
and experience, and now I get awax on some old man wisdom and
(14:52):
I'm still in transition ofworking out exactly what that is
with this is.
He put this on my heart a fewmonths ago and that's why I
created, uh, the website andhave let people know I'm to
answer the call with an s,there's an s and there's a,
(15:14):
there's an s with apostrophes,uh, with a parentheses around it
.
At the end of that visionanswer the call, god's call, to
answer the calls.
I'm convicted about answeringevery call that comes over this
phone right now.
So that's a little bit of myleadership life.
(15:37):
And when I say I'm pinned, Imean once I surrendered.
Once I surrendered my life toGod's way, because he's the one
that created me is when I beganto understand what true success
was.
A good friend of mine, lloydReeb, who's part of Halftime
Ministries, wrote a book calledFrom Success to Significance,
(15:58):
and he said I should have namedit From Success to Sur surrender
, but I didn't think it wouldsell many copies.
And yet I would say, if I wasto write a book now, it would be
something like limping my wayto ultimate satisfaction,
because when we surrender,submit to authority, we have a
(16:20):
much better opportunity ofgaining that satisfaction that I
think all of us are trulysearching for.
So there you go.
Dr. William Attaway (16:29):
So good.
You know, I love your focusright now, particularly on
helping people navigateleadership in the later years.
Culture has, in large part,created a reality, a perception
that once you hit a certain age,well, you're done.
(16:51):
You're kind of done.
And I love your perspectivethat you do your best your best
decade's going to be your 70sbecause you have the wisdom,
because you have the experience.
There's no such thing as awasted experience.
As I'm listening to your story,I'm thinking about this awful
accident that you had, butwithout that, would you be the
(17:13):
leader you are now?
There's no such thing as awasted experience.
Even the most horrific thingscan be used for good.
As you are communicating thismessage and sharing these days
with leaders, do you getpushback from people who are
like, oh no, I'm done.
Or why would you focus onpeople that are past their prime
(17:35):
, so to speak?
Do you get pushback like that?
Or why would you focus onpeople that are past their prime
, so to speak?
Do you get pushback like that?
Tim Johnson (17:39):
Well, what a great question, William, because
people don't understand.
I do and it's in the weirdestway, they're really upset with
me.
There are some people that andI have no problem with however
anybody wants, but they've saidI've waited.
Problem with however anybodywants, but they've said I've
(18:01):
waited.
Now I think, like you alludedto, I think our world and
commercial have put in our mindthat the ultimate is to go get
on the beach, curl your toes inthe beach and then find those
seashells that you're holding upto God and saying look God,
look at the seashell today.
And I'm going.
No, but I have friends, reallygood friends.
They've wanted to travel theworld, they want to do that and
(18:25):
they go.
What are you doing?
And I don't know.
I mean they're mad at me, theywonder why I'm not.
Now I enjoy a beach just likeanybody else.
But you know, it's what I trulybelieve that if we're going to
get our greatest satisfaction,our purpose is to glorify God
(18:47):
and enjoy him forever, I meaneverybody's.
If you're a believer, that'syour purpose to glorify God.
Our creator, john Piper, oncesaid that's your purpose.
To glorify God.
Our creator, john Piper, oncesaid God is most glorified in us
when we are most satisfied inhim.
And so I get pushback that isactually quite pointed from some
(19:14):
people who I don't know whetherit's because they're feeling
guilty or they think that I'mbeing pious or whatever.
They just think you're notsupposed to have that much
energy because I've been toldall my life I'm to quit and I'm
not valued and you're kind ofpushing back on that.
The other pushback is the goodpushback and that is you're
kidding me.
You're kidding me.
(19:36):
I had not thought of thatbefore, but that's you know.
And I was about 20 years ago.
I know right where I stand andI was lamenting not
accomplishing some of the thingsthat I had a goal for in
wrestling.
You know, champion, nationalchampion, whatever it was.
(19:57):
Now I've never heard the Lordaudibly, but I distinctly heard
this what are you talking about?
You think it was all about thatthree quarter inch rubber mat.
That was just the beginning.
He said every day I hear thisevery day you open the door,
that's your mat.
There's championships to win.
I went.
You got to be kidding me.
I can still win championships.
(20:19):
I went out and I've been on aSchwinn Airdyne.
You know what those are.
It's the best since 1988.
And, uh, I haven't at.
At the various places I'm atand I work hard on, I try to
stay in shape.
That's a big part of of what Ibelieve that I'm supposed to do
in every way.
But I went out and got on myairdyne that day and I wrestled
(20:39):
a couple of those guys that beatme and I said, god, give me the
thought I'm going to pretend Ihad the body then.
I had then, but the mind I havenow.
And I mean I wrestled thesematches and I was in shape and I
had scoring moves.
I mean I'd done the 10,000 repson that one scoring move and
therefore I could be strategiclate in the match if I was in
(21:03):
shape and had a scoring move.
And at the end, because of allthose things, I could suck it up
.
And I remember winning againstthis guy that had beaten me and
I said what just happened, andthe fifth S on that, that was
four S's I threw at you Until Isurrendered.
Until I surrendered, I wasn'tfree to have my identity, not in
(21:25):
my performance but in who I was.
And you know, in the image of,made in the image of God.
And out of the overflow of mysurrender came the motivation to
do really what it takes.
And so when I share with othersthat the real championships God
may have for you, I mean Joshuaand Caleb and Moses are my
(21:49):
heroes, you know, because theywere 80 years old when God
brought the real thing he hadcreated them for.
And so that pushback I can workwith, because I'll end this
part, because it's so important.
You know I'm an encourager,that's my gift, that's what I
(22:09):
want to do.
Some people see it ascheerleading and they discount
it.
Over the years I've struggled,saying man, are they right?
Is that all I've got to offer?
And I found that that's not ajust all, it's almost everything
(22:31):
.
Just eight months ago I put outa text to 35 people that are in
leadership in various ways andI said if you could hire a coach
for anything, what would it be?
You know, I got had about seventhat never responded to me,
twenty eight that responded back.
Out of those twenty eight,fifteen had something to do with
(22:57):
encouragement.
We just want to be encouraged.
Two of them almost said thesame thing.
I just want somebody to coachmy heart.
Now, that's not academic enoughfor some, it's not
systems-oriented enough for some, and we need academics, we need
systemized things.
But I'm going, I'm telling youwhat.
(23:20):
What people need isencouragement, I mean, and and
so I just have found that my lotin life is to encourage people
and, to your point, I'm focusedon encouraging people to
flourish in the third third oftheir life.
But guess when that starts?
(23:40):
That's why I have an audiencewith 25 and 30 year olds.
The more you do right now andthink about that, the better
you'll be at it then.
And I call one of the thingsthat I think is important and
that's when I call it freeleading.
That I think is important andthat's when you I call it free
leading.
I had a person once tell me Tim,because he was telling me I was
(24:04):
going to be the chairman of theboard of this YMCA project and
I said I was already leadingPinnacle Forum, a CEO's ministry
, fca, and I said Rick, and assoon as I said Rick, I realized
I was talking on the phone to mybiggest donor, so I was going
to shut up immediately.
But he said, tim, as Christianswe need to lead in our
communities in something wedon't get paid for.
Okay, and what I that's reallylead.
(24:27):
Can you imagine a nonprofit orany organization that has a
board that Dr William Attawayhas decided he will lead on that
board, meaning he's not justgoing to go every month and see
what kind of sandwich he's goingto order and then give his
(24:47):
advice.
He's going to have somethingthat he has found he can lead in
.
And I would contend that twohours a month of William
Attaway's leadership in anonprofit is better than most
board members and mostorganizational boards.
When you really are committed toleading the way, you have
(25:09):
gotten paid for for not doingthat.
And so that's something I talkto young leaders about is they
say yes, I want to sell mycompany when I'm 60 and then I'm
going to give my leadership.
I'm going what if you were freeleading right now, dabbling in
it, just dabbling in it,parallel?
(25:29):
How much better are you goingto be when you are freed up with
all this time and can give moretime to it?
So, in the same way, aboutflourishing in your third third
it's a message for everybody,but right now I have so many
people I'm encouraging that aremy age I'm 71.
(25:51):
And I don't know what my 70sare going to look like, but I
can't wait to find out.
Dr. William Attaway (26:02):
You know, you have so much energy, so much
passion and I just I hope ourlisteners are able to hear and
our viewers to watch what I'mseeing, which is somebody who is
absolutely dead center in theirzone of genius.
This is what happens whensomebody says this is why I was
(26:22):
created.
This is what I was created todo to equip, to empower, to
encourage other people to be allthat they can possibly be.
I love free leading.
That concept is so good.
That is something I hopeeverybody's writing down and
saying hey, this is a goal, notfor one day, not for when I have
time.
You're never going to have time, no-transcript.
(26:50):
But what I'm hearing from youis it's a cost that is well
worth it.
Tim Johnson (26:55):
Yeah, I mean out of the overflow, yes, of a deep
and abiding relationship withthe Lord, and I'd never heard
the phrase that you said thankyou for it.
And I'll tell you why.
Your zone of genius.
And I would say that early on,if somebody wanted to seriously
talk about what we're talkingabout, I picked up that they
(27:20):
certainly didn't think thatsomebody focused on
encouragement was a zone ofgenius.
They had other ideas and so Ihad to wrestle with that.
I mean, they thought of it ascheerleading, but the way they
said that was.
You know, and I have a lot offriends that are athletic
(27:41):
directors and I would tell them,used to tell my friends Bob
Bowlesby and Ron Gunther they'rebig 10, you need to create an
associate athletic director forencouragement.
So we know who's coaching thekids, but who's coaching your
coaches?
And you can't because you'rerunning a Fortune 500 company
(28:03):
but who do you have around youthat are truly encouraging your
coaches?
Well, you know Hayden Fry andKirk Ferentz or Nick Saban.
They don't need encouragement.
I'm going, that's why you needme to tell you they do.
And then and they couldn't seethe ROI on that and I'm going,
(28:28):
it's through the roof.
Absolutely it's through the roof.
So any company that doesn'thave a vice president for
encouragement, I mean they'remissing out on out of the
overflow of what comes from thatwill be profits that they've
never seen before, beyond whatthey've ever dreamed of the
(28:50):
founder Truett.
Dr. William Attaway (28:51):
Cathy would always say you want to know how
to know if somebody needsencouragement, and then he'd
give that little chuckle andhe'd say, if they're breathing.
Tim Johnson (29:04):
Well, I sat by Truett Cathy several years ago
in Fort Wayne.
It was an event oh my goodness.
And I got to sit by him anddidn't really know who I was
sitting by, but he told me that.
He said he stuck out his wristto me, said that and he said
check their pulse.
Same thing.
I said what he said check theirpulse.
(29:24):
If they're alive, they needencouragement.
That's right.
Chick-fil-a and FCA have workedtogether and Dan Cathy became a
friend of mine because he loveswrestling.
He went to a clinic with DanGable when he was young and he's
my age and what a wonderfulfamily.
That has proven.
They prove out theirprofitability with, I would say,
(29:48):
alternative ways of thinking ofhow to get a profit 100%.
Dr. William Attaway (29:54):
They make more profit in six days of
working than other companies doin seven, right?
So let me ask you, tim, youhave to lead at a higher level
today than you did five yearsago, 10 years ago, and that same
thing is going to be true fiveyears from now.
People depend on you.
They listen to you.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
(30:15):
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
clients and the people you workwith are going to need you to
have in the days to come?
Tim Johnson (30:25):
What a great question.
Again, william.
Two things, a great story.
In 1998, the biggest name inwrestling was Dan Gable.
In 1998, the biggest name inwrestling was Dan Gable.
He retired from the Universityof Iowa.
(30:46):
21 years, 21 Big Ten titles, 15national titles.
As the coach won the Olympics in72 without a point being scored
on him and we were in hischalet office North Iowa City
asking him to join our team.
I was going to move over fromanalyst to play-by-play.
Join our team.
I was going to move over fromanalyst to play-by-play.
We're going to have the biggestname in wrestling now.
Be with us in Iowa PublicTelevision at the time and be my
partner.
And he's sitting there and he'srubbing his hands.
(31:06):
He's an incredible leader.
And he says you know everythingI've ever done he's looking
down Everything I've ever done.
I've wanted to be the best Ican be.
He goes this is really nodifferent.
And then he looks up, he pointsat me and he goes Timmy, you're
good, but you can be better.
I'm 45 years old.
(31:26):
I mean I'm going.
Yes, coach, I mean you're good,but you can be better.
And that has rung in my headever since.
I like the better you get, thebetter.
You better get.
That's right, you know, andthat, and we have, you know,
some wrestlers that are 37 yearsold now and they're still
(31:47):
representing the United Statesin the Olympics, and I've sat
with them.
I said what I admire about youbest most is you've got to get
better.
Every because you're adifferent age, you're at a
different body thing and thewrestlers are getting better.
You have to continually,continually get better.
(32:07):
And and so I think the otherthing you said is this is I'm
working on this now and I don'tquite have it, but God's really
impressing upon me Stay you, tim, because I could get so
overwhelmed by all the advancesthat are being utilized in
(32:29):
everything, in leadership,technological and all this.
And I'm going back to hey, I amto encourage people to keep on,
to not lose heart, and I don'thave to think about the
technology, because what theyneed to do, what they're doing
that I have no idea what they'redoing is they need to be
(32:51):
encouraged that they have whatit takes, is they need to be
encouraged that they have whatit takes.
And so I'm wrestling with thetendency to think that I don't
have much to offer, that I needto learn a whole lot more.
And God's telling me keep itsimple, answer the calls.
And so I want to get better.
(33:13):
Every day I've got to stay inshape, spiritually nourished,
the word fresh on my heart everyday.
Okay, and then your heartpumping, that's my Schwinn
Airdyne and your attitude.
The attitude of Christ shouldbe in your life.
And then zeroing on God'spurposes, there's my P every day
(33:35):
.
And so if I get up about anhour and a half, my morning
routine is so important foreverything and it's not easy.
But one of my Mount Rushmore Igot Chambers and Spurgeon and
Martin.
Lord Jones are on MountRushmore of my dead mentors.
(33:56):
But Chambers once said aboutgetting up in the morning he
says get out of bed and thinkabout it later.
That has driven me for threeyears.
That's so good.
I laugh when I get up in themorning because if I think about
it I'm going to stay here.
I get up an hour and a halfbefore my first appointment.
I try not to have seven o'clockappointments, but I engage God
(34:18):
first, and if I can engage Godfirst every day, I can engage
the hearts of anyone that Godbrings to me that day.
That's what I want to keep myfocus on, not how inadequate I
am in understanding all of theadvancements that we have in our
(34:41):
world so well said.
Dr. William Attaway (34:44):
Tim, you are a continuous learner.
We've heard that so many timesthrough this conversation.
I'm curious is there a bookthat you would say this has made
a big difference in my journeyand for the leaders who are
listening?
If you haven't read this, youneed to check it out.
Tim Johnson (35:01):
From a leadership standpoint, a book that I
actually introduced to one ofyour earlier guests, chad
Simpson, is Leaders who Last byDave Kraft, and it's Leaders who
Last by Dave Kraft, and when Isaw the bio 14 years ago, it
said Dave Kraft, 70 years oldand a cancer survivor, and I
(35:22):
said I want to know what he hasto say Absolutely, and it was
all.
It was no theory, from astandpoint of the foundations,
the characteristics you know andjust how a leader needs to live
his life or her life so thatyou don't quit, so that you keep
(35:45):
on.
And so that's where my stay inshape came from, because I was
on a plane, colorado Springs,reading this book, and it's a
small book Leaders who Last byDave Kraft and Peter Drucker.
In that he said, peter Druckersaid your purpose statement
should be short enough that itfits on the T-shirt.
(36:07):
And I go.
that's me.
See, this is a non-academic guy.
I sat in corners of leadershipseminars.
They're saying, okay, now thenext hour and a half we're going
to work on a mission statement.
I just doodle, I mean, I justkind of I go t-shirt, I can do
that and I just wrote.
I was 57 at the time and I justwrote I need to stay in shape.
(36:28):
And inside 10 minutes I came upwith my S-H-A-P-E before we
landed.
And it has driven me sincebecause I mean I will just zero
in on physical.
If I'm not in good physicalshape, I don't think the same
Okay, and so staying in shape isso important.
That was really important.
(36:49):
I love reading for enjoyment,but I don't do it enough.
Joel Rosenberg's Espionageseries they're all about the
Middle East and it's like heknows what's happening before
and that's really good.
And then David Hammerstam isprobably my favorite author.
(37:12):
He wrote a book called October1964, and it was about the
Yankees and the St LouisCardinals in 64.
But as you know and DavidHalberstam just drew me in from
the way he wrote and the phrasesthat he said, and I'll just end
(37:45):
on this book there was a rookienamed Mel Stottlemyre.
He's since passed on rookie in64.
And the pitching coach saidthis phrase he not only listened
, but he had the ability to turnwhat he heard into successful
action.
(38:06):
And when I wrote, when I readthat I go, I I thought
coachability was just anybodythat stuck their tongue out and
went, yeah coach, yeah coach.
And I went there's thedefinition of coachability,
that's right.
Not only listened, but he hadthe ability to turn what he
heard into successful action.
And my point there isthroughout that book whether you
(38:30):
were interested in that wholeworld series thing, you know.
Whether you were interested inthat whole world series thing,
you know.
And that run the way thoseauthors are talking.
And then what I'm reading todayis Unreasonable Hospitality by
Will Gadara.
That's a great book.
I used to be a waiter and it'sprobably one of my favorite jobs
ever.
And what you learn and thenNever Split the Difference by
Chris Voss.
(38:50):
Also a great book, Tremendoustremendous book, and those are
what I'm reading today.
(39:11):
Also a good book, but we alldeal with hard stuff and he
helped me walk through that, sothere's a few books.
Dr. William Attaway (39:21):
Tim, every time we talk, I walk away
encouraged and having learnedsomething new.
This has been no exception tothat.
I'm so grateful for you sharingjust a bit of the wisdom and
insight that you have gainedover these years that you share
with other people.
Now I know people are going towant to stay connected to you
(39:42):
and continue to learn more fromyou and about what you're doing
and how to engage with you.
What is the best way for themto do that?
Tim Johnson (39:49):
I suppose just tjkeeponcom, my website, you can
get a hold of me and that wouldbe the best.
Tjkeeponcom and um, um.
My twitter is at tjkeepon, umand or x and um, my um.
My email is in my website.
(40:10):
So tjkeeponcom and um.
Perfect, and I'd be glad to umwith anybody.
If you call me, we'll talkabout taking the mat with you,
not leaving it all on the matand keeping on and not losing
heart.
I love it.
Dr. William Attaway (40:27):
We'll have all those links in the show
notes, tim.
Thank you for your time andyour generosity today, for your
time and your generosity today.
Tim Johnson (40:33):
Well, thank you, william, and, like I said, I'm
so impressed with yourgenerosity of the way that you
share the gifts God's given youto help others be their best
that they can possibly be intheir leadership journey.
And having me on and yourdemeanor is so kind and
(40:58):
encouraging.
I just want to thank you forthat.
I'm so excited today to have Tim
Johnson on the podcast.
Tim is a speaker, an emcee anda personal coach, aiming to help
individuals navigate leadershipin their later years with
wisdom, strength and passion.
Tim's transformational purposestatement is to inspire leaders
by encouraging and coaching themwith the love and wisdom of
(00:24):
Christ.
Encouraging and coaching themwith the love and wisdom of
Christ.
Over 45 years, Tim hasbroadcasted over 500 college
wrestling meets and has beeninducted into multiple halls of
fame.
Tim has emceed numerousPinnacle Forum national
conferences, bringing together adiverse group of entrepreneurs,
keeping things moving with goodhumor and finishing on time.
(00:45):
Tim has coached countlesshigh-capacity, highly effective
leaders, one-on-one, in smallgroups and through chairing
nonprofit boards, encouragingthem to deepen their faith and
enlarge their perspective inways that made them even better
leaders in the areas of staff,funding and board work.
(01:06):
Tim, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Tim Johnson (01:10):
Well, thank you for having me, william.
It's just a pleasure and anhonor to be with you, and I just
thank you for your focus onleadership and your excellence.
Intro / Outro (01:22):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the
podcast designed to help leadersintentionally grow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:39):
I'd love to start today with you sharing
some of your story with ourlisteners, particularly around
your journey and yourdevelopment as a leader.
Tim Johnson (01:50):
How did you get started?
Well, this may sound kind ofstrange, but let's start.
Go back with me to 1975 and 76.
I'm a senior at Coe College.
It's a Division III college inCedar Rapids, iowa.
I'm a wrestler and we'll talkabout wrestling probably quite a
bit on this podcast.
It's been a big part of my life.
But in 1976, it was theOlympics in Montreal and in
(02:14):
wrestling there was a movecalled the Full Nelson that most
people think is illegal.
But that year they made itlegal.
It was an Olympic year.
They wanted to promote theOlympics and that was that was
really important to me because Iwas a pinner.
By necessity I had to get mymatches done because I had a
(02:37):
problem with getting in the bestshape I could because of some
physical limitations that we'llprobably touch on.
But anyway, we're at the co-gym, at the Kohawk Invitational.
I think it was December of 75.
And my first round opponent wasa wrestler from Northwest
Missouri State.
I go out there.
My mom, my sister, my summerboss are in the stands.
(03:02):
My coach is in the corner.
My best friend and also anAll-American wrestler is up
against.
He's a couple of weightsheavier than me.
He's up against the wall overby my mat.
So I go out there and I takethe guy down and I put him on
his back and this is going good.
Then he gets back to his base.
So I'm ahead like five tonothing and then I see it, his
(03:24):
head drops.
So I'm ahead like five tonothing and then I see it, his
head drops and I sink that fullNelson and I drive that full
Nelson in and I drive it overand I go oh, this is going to be
great, I'm going to get it overwith first round of the
tournament.
This is a great way to start.
And so there was about less thana minute left in this first
period.
I'm driving it and with about20 seconds left I'm going man,
(03:45):
he's pinned, he's pinned.
I'm just kind of driving somemore.
And then about I don't know 15seconds left, I go to the
official.
I go he's pinned and theofficial goes no, no, like this.
I said he's pinned and all of asudden the whole gym heard it.
I've never heard it before,I've never heard it since.
(04:05):
All of a sudden, before the end, the whole gym heard I'm pinned
, I'm pinned.
And I mean my buddy did abackflip.
My coach started just laughing.
They didn't call the pin.
I'm ahead 8 nothing.
After the first period and,true to my form, I crawled off
(04:28):
the match.
After the third period I woneight to seven.
Okay, wow, and I used to tellthat story all the time.
William, like a good pastorfriend of mine, says about
theological things, and besidesthat it's true.
I used to tell it just becauseit's true.
And yet that those words by himhave impacted me more than any
(04:53):
other words as life has gone on.
He said I'm pinned.
Now that's the last thing youwant to say as a wrestler.
Yeah, but in my life I've beenpinned several times and they've
been the most incredible thingsthat have happened to me.
I was pinned early on in life.
I um, I um from a little farmtown called morning sun Iowa
(05:17):
beautiful name, great upbringing, 900 people counting the cows.
I lived out in the country andwe had a tremendous wrestling
tradition a little later on.
But we got on the summer of1960, a brand new riding
lawnmower.
Now, that was quite a deal,novelty back then in the summer
(05:38):
of 60.
I was not quite seven years oldand unwise kid tennis shoes on
dew on the ground and I ran upbehind it to scare the person on
this that was driving just asyet and I slipped underneath it
and it sliced my leg off boneartery nerve, except for a piece
of.
And we had a 17 year old eaglescout working for us in the farm
(06:02):
and he was in the shed.
He ran, he had the presence ofmind to look at my other foot
with a shoestring, put atourniquet on, put it on right.
We got in the car and my dadflooded the car.
My mom came out from the house,we got in the truck, went to a
small Burlington Iowa hospital.
I remember wanting to kind ofgo to sleep.
(06:26):
Everything, everything had beencut.
I was going into shock.
The 17 year old made me.
It was trying to make me madand keep me awake.
All the way down I got on thegurney of the emergency room and
a doctor in a tweed coat and Iremember this came into the end.
He goes let's try to save it.
And that was the start.
I was in the hospital for sixweeks.
(06:48):
They didn't know whether it wasgoing to be a stiff leg or not
and then I had eight operationsin eight years and basically I
was on crutches half a year forseven of those eight wheelchair
another time and because ofdoctors and nurses telling me
how brave I was, a mom that wasalways by my side and a coach
(07:13):
who became one of the greatwrestling coaches in the history
of Iowa wrestling.
But he wasn't even a wrestlingcoach till he was my PE teacher.
They called it PT back then andhe would not let me make
excuses.
He would tell me what a stud Iwas, he would encourage me and
so I went through grade school,really not knowing I was a
(07:35):
cripple because of the supportof those people and I was so
young and the whole bit.
And then when I was 12 years oldor 13, I was coming back from
university hospitals in IowaCity where all of that was done
and they'd said, timmy, we knowyou love baseball and we know
that you love wrestling, but Ihad broken the same leg two
(07:57):
years in a row playing Sandlotfootball.
They said you can't playfootball and I said, oh, I can't
tell the coach he was also thefootball coach, coach Darragh,
bob Darragh.
Well, you don't not playfootball or you thought you were
dead to him and I had to goback.
We play summer baseball in Iowain high school and I went to
(08:17):
the high school baseball gameknowing I was going to see Coach
Darragh and going to have totell him I couldn't play
football and going to have totell him I couldn't play
football.
And I went up to him and I saidcoach, and he said yes, stud, I
go.
Well, that's a good start.
But I knew what he was going tocall me and I couldn't say it
on this broadcast.
You could say it back then.
But let's just say it wassomething like sissy, and I
(08:39):
didn't know how loud he wasgoing to say it.
And he put his hand up and Ithought he was going to hit me,
smack me.
You could do that back then too.
We had paddles with holes inthem.
You know, on the whole bit itwas a different day.
And he put his hand on myshoulder and he said Timmy, as
long as you wrestle, you'll beokay.
I mean, I felt like Barney Fifeon the Andy Griffith show.
(09:00):
I said, yes, sir, coach, yes,sir, you can count on me.
You know that's probablysounded ridiculous.
And he turned a kid that wascould have gone upside down,
right side up, and I committedmy life to wrestling.
Right then I knew I wanted to bea coach because of a coach,
right then at that time.
And and then I wrestled.
(09:22):
I then lost my mentors.
He left me, went to anothercoach, another mentor left me.
And that's how importantrelationships are, because he
knew that I wasn't going to beable to play football.
But what I call it is thelife-changing power of
(09:43):
well-chosen words.
I mean he was ready for me andall leaders need we need to be
ready to know the words thatpeople need to hear.
Well, I started running withthe wrong crowd and I chased
darkness for 12 years, I mean.
And yet part of that darknesswas success, because I wanted to
(10:04):
be a great coach, but I wantedto be it for me and my fame.
And I was pretty good coach andif you went to Mount Vernon
High School they'd say, yeah, wehad a really good coach, but I
left a lot of opportunity on themat there.
I wasn't a Christ follower atthe time, I didn't have much
direction and I was like I say,I was chasing darkness and
(10:27):
personal fame.
And then God picked me up outof my circumstances and moved me
to Stillwater, oklahoma.
Every Olympic sport has agoverning body.
Usa Wrestling now in ColoradoSprings was in Stillwater, at
the National Wrestling Hall ofFame, which is on the campus of
Oklahoma State.
I was moved down there, thecampus of Oklahoma State.
I was moved down there, foreignterritory.
I didn't know anyone.
I walked into a churchUniversity of the Highest
(10:53):
Baptist Church and there was apastor who was a former athlete.
Now, I'd grown up in the churchbut I it must be.
You know, I was interested inwhat a former athlete had to say
.
God opened my heart and I wasgoing.
This is the direction I need togo.
Well, I was running this.
This is the direction I need togo.
Well, I was running, I was thenational events director for USA
wrestling and I was travelingall over the United States and I
went out to New York city torun an event.
(11:13):
I went to my first um Broadwayshow.
Um, it's called dream girlsTremendous, tremendous girl.
It was kind of about the, uh,the journey of the, the Supremes
, and it was a great musical.
This group comes out.
I'm sitting there with my buddy.
This group comes out and thesong was called.
They came out and they startedsinging Fake your Way to the Top
(11:35):
.
It hit me like a two by four.
I said that's who I am.
I'm a phony who's trying tomake his way to the top.
And God transformed my heartright there, put the faith of
(11:56):
Christ in me and the journeythat started really, I would say
spiritual leadership,leadership that is grounded in
the word of God.
And um, I, um, I, I.
My life was changed.
I did have the opportunity then,uh, in 84, um to uh direct the
Olympic games for wrestling in1984.
Um and um was under one of thegreat leaders, peter Uberoth.
(12:18):
He basically saved the Olympicmovement.
Um then became the commissionerof the major league baseball
and the president of the MajorLeague Baseball and the
president of the United StatesOlympic Committee, but he was a
part of an organization calledYoung Presidents Organization,
ypo, and the Olympics were runand saved because nobody else
(12:38):
bid for the Olympics, because itwas such a financial terrible
thing for Montreal.
And then we had the boycott ofthe Russian Olympics.
And this was the opportunityand because of leadership,
because of the leadership of heand his YPO friends, the Olympic
movement was saved.
(12:58):
And then I had the opportunityto leave wrestling and be the
CEO of the Metropolitan YMCAs inWichita, kansas, and I cut my
teeth on staff development, funddevelopment, board development
and I really, really enjoyedthat.
And then I went and, butcoaches and athletes, was my?
(13:18):
Was my really the thing I wasreally passionate about?
The thing I was reallypassionate about and I went to
work with the largest publishingcompany in the world for
physical education and sportscalled Human Kinetics in
Champaign, illinois, where I'mat right now.
Wow, and I was a director of acoaching education program and
at 40 years old, with a five anda two year old, god called me
(13:42):
into full time Christianministry with the Fellowship of
Christian Athletes, and I hadnot thought of being in that
full-time Christian ministry oneday in my life.
But as fearful as Lisa and Iwere, we were more scared of
being disobedient to the Lord.
And I just retired a year and ahalf ago after 30 years leading
FCA.
And in the meantime I beganbroadcasting in 1986 for college
(14:08):
wrestling and have been doingthat for the Big Ten Network and
ESPN ever since, and that hasallowed me a platform to elevate
the things that I think areimportant.
And now I'm kind of pinnedagain because I'm going Lord,
what do you want in my 70s?
(14:28):
Because I've always said thatit's only logical that our
greatest value to society wouldbe in our 70s.
I've always said that that'sgood, and so you know, usually
we have our health, we've gotall these mistakes we've made
and experience, and now I get awax on some old man wisdom and
(14:52):
I'm still in transition ofworking out exactly what that is
with this is.
He put this on my heart a fewmonths ago and that's why I
created, uh, the website andhave let people know I'm to
answer the call with an s,there's an s and there's a,
(15:14):
there's an s with apostrophes,uh, with a parentheses around it
.
At the end of that visionanswer the call, god's call, to
answer the calls.
I'm convicted about answeringevery call that comes over this
phone right now.
So that's a little bit of myleadership life.
(15:37):
And when I say I'm pinned, Imean once I surrendered.
Once I surrendered my life toGod's way, because he's the one
that created me is when I beganto understand what true success
was.
A good friend of mine, lloydReeb, who's part of Halftime
Ministries, wrote a book calledFrom Success to Significance,
(15:58):
and he said I should have namedit From Success to Sur surrender
, but I didn't think it wouldsell many copies.
And yet I would say, if I wasto write a book now, it would be
something like limping my wayto ultimate satisfaction,
because when we surrender,submit to authority, we have a
(16:20):
much better opportunity ofgaining that satisfaction that I
think all of us are trulysearching for.
So there you go.
Dr. William Attaway (16:29):
So good.
You know, I love your focusright now, particularly on
helping people navigateleadership in the later years.
Culture has, in large part,created a reality, a perception
that once you hit a certain age,well, you're done.
(16:51):
You're kind of done.
And I love your perspectivethat you do your best your best
decade's going to be your 70sbecause you have the wisdom,
because you have the experience.
There's no such thing as awasted experience.
As I'm listening to your story,I'm thinking about this awful
accident that you had, butwithout that, would you be the
(17:13):
leader you are now?
There's no such thing as awasted experience.
Even the most horrific thingscan be used for good.
As you are communicating thismessage and sharing these days
with leaders, do you getpushback from people who are
like, oh no, I'm done.
Or why would you focus onpeople that are past their prime
(17:35):
, so to speak?
Do you get pushback like that?
Or why would you focus onpeople that are past their prime
, so to speak?
Do you get pushback like that?
Tim Johnson (17:39):
Well, what a great question, William, because
people don't understand.
I do and it's in the weirdestway, they're really upset with
me.
There are some people that andI have no problem with however
anybody wants, but they've saidI've waited.
Problem with however anybodywants, but they've said I've
(18:01):
waited.
Now I think, like you alludedto, I think our world and
commercial have put in our mindthat the ultimate is to go get
on the beach, curl your toes inthe beach and then find those
seashells that you're holding upto God and saying look God,
look at the seashell today.
And I'm going.
No, but I have friends, reallygood friends.
They've wanted to travel theworld, they want to do that and
(18:25):
they go.
What are you doing?
And I don't know.
I mean they're mad at me, theywonder why I'm not.
Now I enjoy a beach just likeanybody else.
But you know, it's what I trulybelieve that if we're going to
get our greatest satisfaction,our purpose is to glorify God
(18:47):
and enjoy him forever, I meaneverybody's.
If you're a believer, that'syour purpose to glorify God.
Our creator, john Piper, oncesaid that's your purpose.
To glorify God.
Our creator, john Piper, oncesaid God is most glorified in us
when we are most satisfied inhim.
And so I get pushback that isactually quite pointed from some
(19:14):
people who I don't know whetherit's because they're feeling
guilty or they think that I'mbeing pious or whatever.
They just think you're notsupposed to have that much
energy because I've been toldall my life I'm to quit and I'm
not valued and you're kind ofpushing back on that.
The other pushback is the goodpushback and that is you're
kidding me.
You're kidding me.
(19:36):
I had not thought of thatbefore, but that's you know.
And I was about 20 years ago.
I know right where I stand andI was lamenting not
accomplishing some of the thingsthat I had a goal for in
wrestling.
You know, champion, nationalchampion, whatever it was.
(19:57):
Now I've never heard the Lordaudibly, but I distinctly heard
this what are you talking about?
You think it was all about thatthree quarter inch rubber mat.
That was just the beginning.
He said every day I hear thisevery day you open the door,
that's your mat.
There's championships to win.
I went.
You got to be kidding me.
I can still win championships.
(20:19):
I went out and I've been on aSchwinn Airdyne.
You know what those are.
It's the best since 1988.
And, uh, I haven't at.
At the various places I'm atand I work hard on, I try to
stay in shape.
That's a big part of of what Ibelieve that I'm supposed to do
in every way.
But I went out and got on myairdyne that day and I wrestled
(20:39):
a couple of those guys that beatme and I said, god, give me the
thought I'm going to pretend Ihad the body then.
I had then, but the mind I havenow.
And I mean I wrestled thesematches and I was in shape and I
had scoring moves.
I mean I'd done the 10,000 repson that one scoring move and
therefore I could be strategiclate in the match if I was in
(21:03):
shape and had a scoring move.
And at the end, because of allthose things, I could suck it up
.
And I remember winning againstthis guy that had beaten me and
I said what just happened, andthe fifth S on that, that was
four S's I threw at you Until Isurrendered.
Until I surrendered, I wasn'tfree to have my identity, not in
(21:25):
my performance but in who I was.
And you know, in the image of,made in the image of God.
And out of the overflow of mysurrender came the motivation to
do really what it takes.
And so when I share with othersthat the real championships God
may have for you, I mean Joshuaand Caleb and Moses are my
(21:49):
heroes, you know, because theywere 80 years old when God
brought the real thing he hadcreated them for.
And so that pushback I can workwith, because I'll end this
part, because it's so important.
You know I'm an encourager,that's my gift, that's what I
(22:09):
want to do.
Some people see it ascheerleading and they discount
it.
Over the years I've struggled,saying man, are they right?
Is that all I've got to offer?
And I found that that's not ajust all, it's almost everything
(22:31):
.
Just eight months ago I put outa text to 35 people that are in
leadership in various ways andI said if you could hire a coach
for anything, what would it be?
You know, I got had about seventhat never responded to me,
twenty eight that responded back.
Out of those twenty eight,fifteen had something to do with
(22:57):
encouragement.
We just want to be encouraged.
Two of them almost said thesame thing.
I just want somebody to coachmy heart.
Now, that's not academic enoughfor some, it's not
systems-oriented enough for some, and we need academics, we need
systemized things.
But I'm going, I'm telling youwhat.
(23:20):
What people need isencouragement, I mean, and and
so I just have found that my lotin life is to encourage people
and, to your point, I'm focusedon encouraging people to
flourish in the third third oftheir life.
But guess when that starts?
(23:40):
That's why I have an audiencewith 25 and 30 year olds.
The more you do right now andthink about that, the better
you'll be at it then.
And I call one of the thingsthat I think is important and
that's when I call it freeleading.
That I think is important andthat's when you I call it free
leading.
I had a person once tell me Tim,because he was telling me I was
(24:04):
going to be the chairman of theboard of this YMCA project and
I said I was already leadingPinnacle Forum, a CEO's ministry
, fca, and I said Rick, and assoon as I said Rick, I realized
I was talking on the phone to mybiggest donor, so I was going
to shut up immediately.
But he said, tim, as Christianswe need to lead in our
communities in something wedon't get paid for.
Okay, and what I that's reallylead.
(24:27):
Can you imagine a nonprofit orany organization that has a
board that Dr William Attawayhas decided he will lead on that
board, meaning he's not justgoing to go every month and see
what kind of sandwich he's goingto order and then give his
(24:47):
advice.
He's going to have somethingthat he has found he can lead in
.
And I would contend that twohours a month of William
Attaway's leadership in anonprofit is better than most
board members and mostorganizational boards.
When you really are committed toleading the way, you have
(25:09):
gotten paid for for not doingthat.
And so that's something I talkto young leaders about is they
say yes, I want to sell mycompany when I'm 60 and then I'm
going to give my leadership.
I'm going what if you were freeleading right now, dabbling in
it, just dabbling in it,parallel?
(25:29):
How much better are you goingto be when you are freed up with
all this time and can give moretime to it?
So, in the same way, aboutflourishing in your third third
it's a message for everybody,but right now I have so many
people I'm encouraging that aremy age I'm 71.
(25:51):
And I don't know what my 70sare going to look like, but I
can't wait to find out.
Dr. William Attaway (26:02):
You know, you have so much energy, so much
passion and I just I hope ourlisteners are able to hear and
our viewers to watch what I'mseeing, which is somebody who is
absolutely dead center in theirzone of genius.
This is what happens whensomebody says this is why I was
(26:22):
created.
This is what I was created todo to equip, to empower, to
encourage other people to be allthat they can possibly be.
I love free leading.
That concept is so good.
That is something I hopeeverybody's writing down and
saying hey, this is a goal, notfor one day, not for when I have
time.
You're never going to have time, no-transcript.
(26:50):
But what I'm hearing from youis it's a cost that is well
worth it.
Tim Johnson (26:55):
Yeah, I mean out of the overflow, yes, of a deep
and abiding relationship withthe Lord, and I'd never heard
the phrase that you said thankyou for it.
And I'll tell you why.
Your zone of genius.
And I would say that early on,if somebody wanted to seriously
talk about what we're talkingabout, I picked up that they
(27:20):
certainly didn't think thatsomebody focused on
encouragement was a zone ofgenius.
They had other ideas and so Ihad to wrestle with that.
I mean, they thought of it ascheerleading, but the way they
said that was.
You know, and I have a lot offriends that are athletic
(27:41):
directors and I would tell them,used to tell my friends Bob
Bowlesby and Ron Gunther they'rebig 10, you need to create an
associate athletic director forencouragement.
So we know who's coaching thekids, but who's coaching your
coaches?
And you can't because you'rerunning a Fortune 500 company
(28:03):
but who do you have around youthat are truly encouraging your
coaches?
Well, you know Hayden Fry andKirk Ferentz or Nick Saban.
They don't need encouragement.
I'm going, that's why you needme to tell you they do.
And then and they couldn't seethe ROI on that and I'm going,
(28:28):
it's through the roof.
Absolutely it's through the roof.
So any company that doesn'thave a vice president for
encouragement, I mean they'remissing out on out of the
overflow of what comes from thatwill be profits that they've
never seen before, beyond whatthey've ever dreamed of the
(28:50):
founder Truett.
Dr. William Attaway (28:51):
Cathy would always say you want to know how
to know if somebody needsencouragement, and then he'd
give that little chuckle andhe'd say, if they're breathing.
Tim Johnson (29:04):
Well, I sat by Truett Cathy several years ago
in Fort Wayne.
It was an event oh my goodness.
And I got to sit by him anddidn't really know who I was
sitting by, but he told me that.
He said he stuck out his wristto me, said that and he said
check their pulse.
Same thing.
I said what he said check theirpulse.
(29:24):
If they're alive, they needencouragement.
That's right.
Chick-fil-a and FCA have workedtogether and Dan Cathy became a
friend of mine because he loveswrestling.
He went to a clinic with DanGable when he was young and he's
my age and what a wonderfulfamily.
That has proven.
They prove out theirprofitability with, I would say,
(29:48):
alternative ways of thinking ofhow to get a profit 100%.
Dr. William Attaway (29:54):
They make more profit in six days of
working than other companies doin seven, right?
So let me ask you, tim, youhave to lead at a higher level
today than you did five yearsago, 10 years ago, and that same
thing is going to be true fiveyears from now.
People depend on you.
They listen to you.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
(30:15):
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
clients and the people you workwith are going to need you to
have in the days to come?
Tim Johnson (30:25):
What a great question.
Again, william.
Two things, a great story.
In 1998, the biggest name inwrestling was Dan Gable.
In 1998, the biggest name inwrestling was Dan Gable.
He retired from the Universityof Iowa.
(30:46):
21 years, 21 Big Ten titles, 15national titles.
As the coach won the Olympics in72 without a point being scored
on him and we were in hischalet office North Iowa City
asking him to join our team.
I was going to move over fromanalyst to play-by-play.
Join our team.
I was going to move over fromanalyst to play-by-play.
We're going to have the biggestname in wrestling now.
Be with us in Iowa PublicTelevision at the time and be my
partner.
And he's sitting there and he'srubbing his hands.
(31:06):
He's an incredible leader.
And he says you know everythingI've ever done he's looking
down Everything I've ever done.
I've wanted to be the best Ican be.
He goes this is really nodifferent.
And then he looks up, he pointsat me and he goes Timmy, you're
good, but you can be better.
I'm 45 years old.
(31:26):
I mean I'm going.
Yes, coach, I mean you're good,but you can be better.
And that has rung in my headever since.
I like the better you get, thebetter.
You better get.
That's right, you know, andthat, and we have, you know,
some wrestlers that are 37 yearsold now and they're still
(31:47):
representing the United Statesin the Olympics, and I've sat
with them.
I said what I admire about youbest most is you've got to get
better.
Every because you're adifferent age, you're at a
different body thing and thewrestlers are getting better.
You have to continually,continually get better.
(32:07):
And and so I think the otherthing you said is this is I'm
working on this now and I don'tquite have it, but God's really
impressing upon me Stay you, tim, because I could get so
overwhelmed by all the advancesthat are being utilized in
(32:29):
everything, in leadership,technological and all this.
And I'm going back to hey, I amto encourage people to keep on,
to not lose heart, and I don'thave to think about the
technology, because what theyneed to do, what they're doing
that I have no idea what they'redoing is they need to be
(32:51):
encouraged that they have whatit takes, is they need to be
encouraged that they have whatit takes.
And so I'm wrestling with thetendency to think that I don't
have much to offer, that I needto learn a whole lot more.
And God's telling me keep itsimple, answer the calls.
And so I want to get better.
(33:13):
Every day I've got to stay inshape, spiritually nourished,
the word fresh on my heart everyday.
Okay, and then your heartpumping, that's my Schwinn
Airdyne and your attitude.
The attitude of Christ shouldbe in your life.
And then zeroing on God'spurposes, there's my P every day
(33:35):
.
And so if I get up about anhour and a half, my morning
routine is so important foreverything and it's not easy.
But one of my Mount Rushmore Igot Chambers and Spurgeon and
Martin.
Lord Jones are on MountRushmore of my dead mentors.
(33:56):
But Chambers once said aboutgetting up in the morning he
says get out of bed and thinkabout it later.
That has driven me for threeyears.
That's so good.
I laugh when I get up in themorning because if I think about
it I'm going to stay here.
I get up an hour and a halfbefore my first appointment.
I try not to have seven o'clockappointments, but I engage God
(34:18):
first, and if I can engage Godfirst every day, I can engage
the hearts of anyone that Godbrings to me that day.
That's what I want to keep myfocus on, not how inadequate I
am in understanding all of theadvancements that we have in our
(34:41):
world so well said.
Dr. William Attaway (34:44):
Tim, you are a continuous learner.
We've heard that so many timesthrough this conversation.
I'm curious is there a bookthat you would say this has made
a big difference in my journeyand for the leaders who are
listening?
If you haven't read this, youneed to check it out.
Tim Johnson (35:01):
From a leadership standpoint, a book that I
actually introduced to one ofyour earlier guests, chad
Simpson, is Leaders who Last byDave Kraft, and it's Leaders who
Last by Dave Kraft, and when Isaw the bio 14 years ago, it
said Dave Kraft, 70 years oldand a cancer survivor, and I
(35:22):
said I want to know what he hasto say Absolutely, and it was
all.
It was no theory, from astandpoint of the foundations,
the characteristics you know andjust how a leader needs to live
his life or her life so thatyou don't quit, so that you keep
(35:45):
on.
And so that's where my stay inshape came from, because I was
on a plane, colorado Springs,reading this book, and it's a
small book Leaders who Last byDave Kraft and Peter Drucker.
In that he said, peter Druckersaid your purpose statement
should be short enough that itfits on the T-shirt.
(36:07):
And I go.
that's me.
See, this is a non-academic guy.
I sat in corners of leadershipseminars.
They're saying, okay, now thenext hour and a half we're going
to work on a mission statement.
I just doodle, I mean, I justkind of I go t-shirt, I can do
that and I just wrote.
I was 57 at the time and I justwrote I need to stay in shape.
(36:28):
And inside 10 minutes I came upwith my S-H-A-P-E before we
landed.
And it has driven me sincebecause I mean I will just zero
in on physical.
If I'm not in good physicalshape, I don't think the same
Okay, and so staying in shape isso important.
That was really important.
(36:49):
I love reading for enjoyment,but I don't do it enough.
Joel Rosenberg's Espionageseries they're all about the
Middle East and it's like heknows what's happening before
and that's really good.
And then David Hammerstam isprobably my favorite author.
(37:12):
He wrote a book called October1964, and it was about the
Yankees and the St LouisCardinals in 64.
But as you know and DavidHalberstam just drew me in from
the way he wrote and the phrasesthat he said, and I'll just end
(37:45):
on this book there was a rookienamed Mel Stottlemyre.
He's since passed on rookie in64.
And the pitching coach saidthis phrase he not only listened
, but he had the ability to turnwhat he heard into successful
action.
(38:06):
And when I wrote, when I readthat I go, I I thought
coachability was just anybodythat stuck their tongue out and
went, yeah coach, yeah coach.
And I went there's thedefinition of coachability,
that's right.
Not only listened, but he hadthe ability to turn what he
heard into successful action.
And my point there isthroughout that book whether you
(38:30):
were interested in that wholeworld series thing, you know.
Whether you were interested inthat whole world series thing,
you know.
And that run the way thoseauthors are talking.
And then what I'm reading todayis Unreasonable Hospitality by
Will Gadara.
That's a great book.
I used to be a waiter and it'sprobably one of my favorite jobs
ever.
And what you learn and thenNever Split the Difference by
Chris Voss.
(38:50):
Also a great book, Tremendoustremendous book, and those are
what I'm reading today.
(39:11):
Also a good book, but we alldeal with hard stuff and he
helped me walk through that, sothere's a few books.
Dr. William Attaway (39:21):
Tim, every time we talk, I walk away
encouraged and having learnedsomething new.
This has been no exception tothat.
I'm so grateful for you sharingjust a bit of the wisdom and
insight that you have gainedover these years that you share
with other people.
Now I know people are going towant to stay connected to you
(39:42):
and continue to learn more fromyou and about what you're doing
and how to engage with you.
What is the best way for themto do that?
Tim Johnson (39:49):
I suppose just tjkeeponcom, my website, you can
get a hold of me and that wouldbe the best.
Tjkeeponcom and um, um.
My twitter is at tjkeepon, umand or x and um, my um.
My email is in my website.
(40:10):
So tjkeeponcom and um.
Perfect, and I'd be glad to umwith anybody.
If you call me, we'll talkabout taking the mat with you,
not leaving it all on the matand keeping on and not losing
heart.
I love it.
Dr. William Attaway (40:27):
We'll have all those links in the show
notes, tim.
Thank you for your time andyour generosity today, for your
time and your generosity today.
Tim Johnson (40:33):
Well, thank you, william, and, like I said, I'm
so impressed with yourgenerosity of the way that you
share the gifts God's given youto help others be their best
that they can possibly be intheir leadership journey.
And having me on and yourdemeanor is so kind and
(40:58):
encouraging.
I just want to thank you forthat.
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