July 15, 2025 • 35 mins
If you're scaling your agency but still stuck in the center of everything — decisions, operations, delivery — it's costing you more than time. It’s capping your growth, draining your team, and blocking your ability to build something truly sellable.
In this episode, I’m joined by Jordan Calderon, two-time exit founder and President of StratDev, a top 100 U.S. digital marketing firm that’s generated over $150 million in tracked client revenue. He’s also the founder of My Virtual Desk and someone who’s turned down 11 acquisition offers because he knew he could scale further.
We talk about how to build systems that scale without you, create operational clarity, avoid burnout, and make your business not just profitable, but sellable. You’ll hear how Jordan thinks about AI, team retention, hiring and firing, and what it really takes to create sellable agency systems that unlock optionality and freedom at scale.
If you’ve ever asked, “How do I get out of the day-to-day?” this is the episode for you.
⏱ Chapter Breakdown
00:03 — Meet Jordan Calderon: Founder, Strategist, 2X Exit Leader
01:22 — From Econ Class Dropout to Serial Entrepreneur
05:44 — Building and Selling His First E-Com Business
07:56 — What Buyers Actually Want in a Sellable Agency
11:07 — Learning Marketing by Doing (and YouTube)
13:20 — Turning Down 11 Acquisition Offers (and Why)
16:10 — Hard Lessons: Hiring Slow, Firing Fast
18:05 — Building a Team That Performs (and Stays)
21:58 — Who StratDev Serves and Why
23:53 — The Daily Practice That Keeps Him Leveling Up
28:30 — AI Integration and What Agencies Must Prepare For
31:15 — The Future Agency Model: Execution vs. Operator
📚 Books Mentioned
- How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital by Nathan Latka
To learn more about Jordan’s work, connect with him at jordancalderon.me — where you’ll find his LinkedIn, Twitter, and business insights.
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
- Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:
Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
- Special Offer:
Get your FREE copy of Catalytic Leadership: 12 Keys to Becoming an Intentional Leader Who Makes a Difference.
Connect with Dr. William Attaway:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. William Attaway (00:00):
I'm so excited today to have Jordan
Calderon on the podcast.
Jordan is a two-time exitfounder, the president of
StratDev, a top 100 US marketingfirm, and a guy who believes in
growing businesses the rightway, not the loudest way.
He's built a national collegeapparel company, scaled a
(00:21):
digital agency that hasgenerated over $150 million in
tracked client revenue and hasspoken at TEDx.
He's turned down acquisitionoffers for his current company
and started a wine brand alongthe way.
Today, he's going to share thehighs, the lows and the real
strategies behind scalingcompanies and how you can grow
(00:43):
smarter with the right mindset.
Jordan, I'm so glad you're here, man.
Thanks for being on the show.
Jordan Calderon (00:49):
Thank you so much, dr Attaway, and remind me,
if I ever change careerdirection here and become a
boxer, that I need to hire youas my ring announcer.
That was phenomenal.
Dr. William Attaway (00:59):
I'll keep that in mind.
Intro (01:03):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed
to help leaders intentionallygrow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:21):
I would love to start with you sharing a
little bit of your story withour listeners, particularly
around your journey and yourdevelopment as a leader.
How did you get?
Jordan Calderon (01:31):
started and a Justin Bieber looking hairdo
going into my first economicsclass as an economics major, and
so you know that class wasabout 90 minutes long and the
(01:55):
first minute I had the biggestsmile on my face, really, really
excited to learn abouteconomics.
Right, I had just earlier had aknack for business.
I like the idea of business.
I really thought, and due to myfather's kind of I don't want
to use the word grooming, butfor lack of better right pushing
me into the direction ofworking in a company, growing
and climbing up the corporateladder within that company,
(02:16):
economics just made a lot ofsense, right, and so very, very
excited, thinking, okay, well,let's see how it goes.
And by that 90th and lastminute of the class, I had that
frown turned upside down,realizing holy crap, and nothing
against UC, santa Barbara orreally any public university,
(02:36):
but I found out very quicklythat they teach it in a very
theoretical sense, one that isnot applicable or really
practical, right, I rememberthere was one economics class
that I took that there were nonumbers on that chalkboard, less
of the date that the professorwrote on that, and so it just
didn't feel like I couldactually do something with that,
and I, you know, it took 90minutes for me to come to that
(02:57):
conclusion.
So what did I do?
I ran back to my dorm room.
I looked up what was hot, whatwas popping, and back in 2017,
dropshipping was to be able toreally kind of start my own
career.
I didn't want to wait the fouryears.
Let's do something now.
And so I tried my hand atdropshipping.
Dr Attaway, I think it was acompany called Axiom Apparel we
(03:19):
found some Alibaba $10 watchesand belts and sunglasses to look
cool and you know, be your bestman, it was like a high value
man back in you know 2017 kindof thing.
So did that I don't know putmaybe $500 into it and it went
(03:40):
down in burning flames.
I ran through the 500 bucks.
I got maybe one purchase thatwas my like best friends, but
didn't turn into anythingfurther than that.
But I learned a lot of lessonsright.
This is my first time reallytrying to build a real business
and you know that $500 turnedinto me trying again and
(04:02):
avoiding some of the failuresthat I had or lessons that I had
learned right in that firsttime.
And so I tried my hand again,created a completely different
dropshipping company and I endedup failing again.
And then I took those lessonsand then I turned it into
another business, anothere-commerce dropshipping business
, and I failed again.
And the fourth time I said,okay, you know what?
(04:22):
Dropshipping isn't maybe for me, but I've learned a lot of
things on Shopify.
I've learned how to runadvertisements.
I've learned how to marketsomething a little bit right.
What can I do that I have areally good passion with, that I
can kind of maximize my chancesof succeeding with.
And so at that time, being afreshman at a party school as
you see, santa Barbara well, youknow what.
What about the people?
(04:51):
What do the kids want, right?
And so I started asking a lotof my friends.
I said, hey, what is somethingthat you want out of college
that you don't have?
And I remember I was in abrainstorming session with a
couple of my friends and theyall came to the conclusion you
know what I want?
College apparel that representsme, that represents the school,
not just with the universitylettering established 1972 or
whatever it is right but rathersomething that speaks to the
culture, speaks to the studentsof those organizations.
(05:14):
And so that ended up inaccepting a company called
College Cloud, in which weworked with fraternities,
sororities, clubs andorganizations across school
campuses to create customdesigns, slapped it on a t-shirt
and then sent it out to thatclub or organization as a whole.
So, for example, you are asorority doing bid day and your
(05:35):
sorority is really well knownfor you know pink bows and
things like that.
We can make a design thatencapsulates that vision that
you want.
Put that on a t-shirt.
Now everyone has a matchingt-shirt for bid day, right?
Or there's a dance club, youknow, at ASU.
At ASU they want, end of theyear they have a dance
tournament.
They want all the same hats andsweatshirts and hoodies and
(05:57):
things like that to all have thesame swag.
We can go out and create thatfor them and put their personal
spin to it and then, workingsometimes with universities as
well, to go ahead and createthat for them and put their
personal spin to it.
And then, working sometimeswith universities as well, to go
ahead and make, you know,football day t-shirts and things
of that nature that reallyspeak to the students rather
than keeping I like to call itcollege corporate style designs
(06:21):
here.
So that ended up taking off andover the course of my college
career I grew that to a prettyhealthy number, before I ended
up selling that company to acompany called Greek House in
2021 with Luke McGurran andKarthik Shanadi, and so with
that, I had learned a lot ofleadership skills.
(06:43):
I ended up building anambassador brand of 300
individuals across the UnitedStates that trusted me for their
paycheck, and so I would hop oncalls, with all these 300
people being the same age asthem, learning, hey, okay,
you're looking at me like I'mthe boss.
How do I act like a boss?
And so it was a phenomenal,honestly learning lesson that I
(07:05):
did get some success out of.
That really, I think,kickstarted my entrepreneurial
journey and that, you know,incepted a lot of confidence in
me to go build a lot of otherbusinesses, where now I am, you
know, the solely sworn leader ofa lot of different businesses,
and that has been a blessing initself as well.
Dr. William Attaway (07:23):
Love that.
I love the genesis of yourstory.
You know I mean coming into theacademic environment and
recognizing so quickly what I'mlooking for is actually
something a little bit different.
That's fascinating.
I think it's so important forthe leaders who are listening to
recognize that.
(07:44):
You know, despite the bestefforts of so many, there's not
a one size fits all to this.
There's not a one path thatfits everybody.
You created a new path based onyour wiring, so you've sold two
companies.
Jordan Calderon (07:58):
Jordan, that's right, yep.
Dr. William Attaway (08:01):
What is something that, as the leaders
who are listening are thinkingabout what it would be like to
sell their company.
What is something that peopledon't normally think about when
they are exiting or gettingready to exit?
Jordan Calderon (08:43):
Yeah, yeah, that's a phenomenal built the
business the way that I want to,and now I want to go sell the
business.
You're going to find thatyou've probably built it in a
way that makes it very hard toassume for somebody else,
because you built it around youright and so you want to sell
that business.
But instead that mindset shouldbe, before you decide to get to
that point, how to build asellable business, to then go
and sell that business, right,and so that information and
(09:07):
advice turned into with both ofmy companies before I sold those
companies Right, I knew in theback of my mind OK, I'm getting
close to that 11th hour.
Right now, start to think aboutwhat do buyers really care
about?
And so buyers care about acouple of things, right.
They care about seeing growth.
They care about seeing reallystrong SOPs or standard
operating procedures inbusinesses, having clean
(09:29):
accounting, having a team thatis not going to run and leave
the second, that a newmanagement comes in, things like
this.
And so it's a big checklist,right, and you want to go
through this checklist to makesure that you are building that
sellable business and that, whenthe time comes and you hit that
11th hour right.
You are prepared.
That in turn, maximizes yourvaluation that you have for the
(09:50):
business as well, so you usuallyget some more money out of it
too.
Right, because it makes itreally easy for the buyer to
come in.
Both times that I sold mybusinesses, the same comment was
passed by the new management,which is wow, jordan, you made
it really easy to assume thisbusiness.
You have all your SHIT together, right, and so it was a very
(10:11):
enjoyable experience in boththose occurrences because of my
ability to build that sellablebusiness.
So something that I learned, Iguess, in real time, but has
been highly applicable andhelpful in both those situations
.
Dr. William Attaway (10:24):
I think that's very practical
information, because I watch toomany founders create a business
that is centered around them.
That's right when they're atthe center of the spider web and
everything connects to them.
You can't sell that because youcan't sell yourself.
Jordan Calderon (10:37):
Exactly.
It's an extension of you, right, and so you want to be able to
fully separate yourself too.
I guess probably the biggestthing on that checklist is how
do you remove yourself right?
Founder led sales, founder ledoperations exactly Marketing,
whatever it is and so buyers getvery scared when you are part
of the business because theycan't buy you Right.
(11:00):
So totally Great.
Dr. William Attaway (11:02):
That's it.
So how did you get from collegeapparel to marketing?
Jordan Calderon (11:07):
Yeah, great question.
I, through many sleeplessnights in college, taught myself
marketing to market thiscollege apparel company.
I mean, there was a period oftime every single day, till
three, four in the morning, I'dbe on YouTube, watching YouTube
videos of how to run a Facebookad, how to create an SEO blog,
(11:28):
how to X, y and Z, to the pointwhere my girlfriend at the time
was like get the hell back tobed, what are you doing here,
right, where's my boyfriend?
And so, with that, I learned alot of things and grew the
business and fully bootstrappedthat business to get to the
point where we're able to goahead and sell.
And so when I did sell thatbusiness, I really thought to
myself wow, what should I donext?
(11:51):
Cause I knew that I wanted tobuild another business, but
where could I provide a lot ofvalue?
I've always been a value firsttype of entrepreneur, right?
I don't want to sell somethingthat, uh, it doesn't have any
value.
I don't want to create a SaaScompany that the reason why
we're growing in revenue isbecause people forget to cancel,
right?
I want people to actually wantto use the product or service.
(12:11):
And so I thought again, thoughtto myself how can I be of value
?
And I looked at my own companythat I had just sold and saw it
more or less as a case study,saying, wow, I was able to do
this for my company, I want todo this for other companies.
So that was the inception ofStratDev, which is a full
(12:48):
service digital marketing firmin the United States, that it
was started because of YouTubevideos and my understanding of
marketing because of it.
It's been a very fun journeybut, regardless, that was a
transition between the two.
Dr. William Attaway (13:01):
And you've built your agency into a pretty
significant size, to the pointwhere people have been making
acquisition offers that you haveturned down.
Can you share a little bitabout that and why you would
turn down what I'm guessing wereprobably some decent offers?
Jordan Calderon (13:20):
They were, they were, and you know, back at 24
years old, in 2023, when I got11 letters of intent from 11
unique entities to buy StratDev,I was very much thinking to
myself yeah, some of these arepretty nice but hard to turn
down.
And you ask a really goodquestion why did I turn those
down?
And the reason why was not afinancial decision, but rather
(13:51):
more or less a bet on myself,where I looked internally and
said do I think?
Well, I asked myself a coupleof things.
The first thing that I asked isdo I think that I am at my end,
where I could not grow thisbusiness more?
I asked myself do I think thatI am over it?
(14:14):
Personally, emotionally, right,I think that a lot of
entrepreneurs have like a like apeak productivity, uh period in
their business, and once youexhaust that, it becomes a lot
harder to grow and scale becauseyour heart's just not and it
kind of comes like an estrangedchild in a certain sense to you.
And so do I wake up everysingle day?
And am I still excited to buildStratDev?
(14:34):
And the answer was no's andyes's.
In terms of no, I was not at mypeak.
Yes, I'm still excited to wakeup every single day.
And so at that point I realized, okay, you know what, let me
continue to build this because Ithink I can build it higher.
And now, looking retrospectively, you know, as this was two
years ago.
Right, I'm like, oh yeah, Imade the right decision.
(14:56):
I was very, very, very happy.
We've been able to grow alittle over 2x since that point
in terms of headcount, in termsof revenue, as well as in terms
of EBITDA numbers, which is howa lot of digital marketing firms
are you know the valuation isbuilt off of.
So I've been able to go andincrease the value of that
business and I'm happy, lookingretrospectively, even from a
(15:18):
financial decision andstandpoint, that I said no to
those offers because I wouldhave been significantly worse
off if I had assuming that I didnothing after and that you know
that wasn't the next Tesla orGoogle or whatever.
That is Right, so yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (15:32):
You know, as more and more people have
started to listen to the showand continue to give us feedback
on what resonates the most, oneof the things that really pops
in the feedback that we get iswhen somebody shares their story
, just like what you're doingand can share.
You know, hey, this was thiswas something that I didn't know
(15:52):
, that I learned along the wayas you were building your agency
.
Can you think of something likethat that you know?
I wish I had known this at thebeginning, but it's something
that I learned along the way andnow you can't unsee it once.
You see it, yeah.
Jordan Calderon (16:07):
Yeah, yeah, um, there are so many things that
come to mind right now.
I mean, I can tell you thatI've built these businesses.
Learning by doing everything isusually I get from step one and
I put a foot ahead and I get tostep two, and then I try to
just take a step three and then,oh, that's not the right
decision.
(16:28):
Oh, that's not the rightdecision.
Oh, that's not the rightdecision.
Then I find that path and thenI get to step four, and so I
continuously learn these thingsand when I turn my head back I
realize, holy crap, I've learneda lot of lessons along the way.
A couple of them that justreally stand out is hire slowly,
fire quick.
A teammate that is not a goodfit for your business is so much
(16:53):
more expensive in terms ofopportunity costs or even direct
loss of revenue by keeping themon rather than firing that
individual.
As a founder, I've had to makevery difficult decisions and
fire some individuals that, froma personal perspective, I would
not have wanted to fire, justfrom being friends with these
(17:15):
people, and I've definitely shedsome tears just speaking
honestly here.
But it's the right thing forthe business and it ultimately
ends up being the right thing.
For them as well.
There's one individual thatcomes to mind without speaking
their name thing.
For them as well.
There's one individual thatcomes to mind without speaking
their name.
You know, there was acommission incentive.
They were a really good friendof mine and they were not able
to close or hit those KPIs asthey were expected to, and so
(17:37):
they were not making too muchmoney.
Stratdev was also not making asmuch as they thought and was
investing more into thatrelationship than we were
getting out of that and, as aresult, both of us were in a
situation of wow, we are worseoff now because of this, and so
he ended up.
You know, we made the mutualdecision to leave, and now he's
making a lot more and is very,very happy.
(17:57):
So it all works out at the endof the day.
Now we are too.
So there's that.
Another thing that comes to mindis really caring about your
team.
I think that we're B2B serviceand I think that you can draw a
very direct parallel in terms ofif your team is happy, and
because your team is really yourbusiness, then your customers
(18:18):
will be happy as well.
Right, happy team equals happycustomers, but this is also true
with software companies.
This is also true with teammembers that don't exactly touch
or directly client facing.
In a lot of ways, having ahappy team is the backbone of
your business.
I mean, that's why unions exist, right, we've seen how, if
everybody turns against abusiness, how weak that business
(18:40):
actually is.
If everybody at you know Appleon the factory machines decides
to stop working tomorrow, thatbusiness goes down to pretty
much zero in value.
Right, and so it really is theteam.
I have never really had a realjob where I've had an employee
or had a boss and I was anemployee state.
(19:00):
But I've heard just fromfriends I'm a younger guy, right
, a lot of my friends are intheir entry level jobs or
getting promoted or gettingfired or moving to the next step
, right, they're in that kind ofinflection point of their
career and I hear so manystories of, oh, my boss was an
a-hole here or I didn't like howthe company did this and that,
(19:22):
and so I don't just hear thosestories saying, oh, wow, that
sucks, and then I go off and domy own thing with my businesses,
but I absorb it like a sponge,right, hearing okay, don't do
that, don't do that, don't dothat, do the opposite of that,
and so that in turn, has reallybuilt a high level of awareness
for the happiness of my team.
I care about team culture.
(19:43):
That is, I think, my number oneresponsibility as a president
of the company.
We take very good care of ourcustomers.
I give bonuses out all the timelike it's candy and it makes
people feel really good.
The result of that is that ourteam very rarely leaves.
There is, at least to myknowledge, not been any one that
(20:04):
has left my company everbecause they did not enjoy
working at the company, butbecause you know it's the next
step in their career, or theywant a career change, or it's a
personal reason, right, and youknow, even looking at Glassdoor
which I didn't even know thatpeople were reviewing us on just
a couple of months ago we havea 4.9 star on Glassdoor and, I
(20:26):
think, close to 100% CEOapproval rating, which is
awesome.
Didn't even ask for that, nonesolicited.
But it turns into greatperformance for our customers
too.
That's why we're able to dosuch a good job, because our
team actually likes us andtherefore has vested interest in
our customers too, which makesand builds a really good company
as a whole.
So those are two things thatI'll leave the audience members
(20:49):
to ponder and think about.
Don't forget about the team andalso fire quickly if it's not
the right fit for your team.
Dr. William Attaway (20:57):
I love that and it's such a great piece of
advice, both, but the latter inparticular.
So often we think by well,we'll give them another chance,
well, we'll just hang on alittle bit longer, well, we'll
just hope.
Hope's a terrible strategy andyou're holding that person back
from a better fit, and so oftenthe owners and founders do not
think about that, but you areholding them back and you are
(21:19):
holding the rest of your teamback from the synergy and the
performance that you could beachieving when you have somebody
who is the right fit for thatseat on the bus.
Jordan Calderon (21:30):
I love that you shared that.
Yeah, that's right, and it kindof goes back to the age-old
saying you're only as fast asyour slowest team member, or
something along the lines ofthat.
I mean, it's super true, right?
It might sound cheesy, but I'veseen it time and time and time
again.
So we want to make sure thateverybody's moving as fast as
possible and there's a goodcamaraderie in between as well.
Dr. William Attaway (21:50):
So StratDev is full stack marketing.
Where do you focus?
Who's your ideal client?
Jordan Calderon (21:55):
Yeah, yeah.
So we love our tech startupcompanies.
So think of tech-enableddigital services, digital
products, digital software, saascompanies, things like that.
Usually we see a really goodtraction and track record with
customers that already have alittle bit of traction, so
(22:17):
they're not starting at zero.
Call it anywhere between amillion dollars in ARR all the
way up to anywhere between 20and 50 million dollars in ARR,
depending on how quickly theybuild out their marketing team.
We don't usually work withbigger and when we build
companies at that point weusually don't work past that,
and the reason why is becausethey graduate us.
In a certain sense, it's thebest feeling.
(22:38):
It's bittersweet, but it's goodfor them and that's what
matters.
But that's really where oursweet spot is, and we've been
able to um hit our targets 94 ofthe time with customers that
fit those parameters remarkable,uh, marketing is not magic, but
that's as close to a number asmagic, I think and this is why
(23:00):
you're a top 100 firm right,yeah because you produce results
for the clients consistentlyand predictably.
It's also a level of beingrelatively exclusive.
We're in the blessed positionof being able to say no more
than yes with our customers, andso you know, if we're taking
everybody on, then we are notable to protect those numbers.
(23:21):
But that's not the case.
I love that.
Dr. William Attaway (23:25):
Thank you, jordan.
As you have continued to growStratDev, you know you've had to
grow as a leader.
You're not the same leader youwere five years ago and five
years from now, your team andyour clients are going to need
you to lead at an even higherlevel.
How do you stay on top of yourgame personally?
How do you level up with thosenew leadership skills that
(23:47):
they're going to need you tohave?
Jordan Calderon (23:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I'm a young founder and Ithink young founders are highly
susceptible to making mistakes,and I am not immune myself
either.
I make a lot of mistakes.
I also believe that death onearth is when you personally
don't grow right.
When you turn 30 years old andthen you look back, it's like I
(24:10):
haven't changed a bit since Iwas 20.
Yeah, that's not livingpersonally, um and so, and so
you know, as a busy founder, Ineed to or I found that I need
to carve out some time, uh, tobe able to actually think and
reflect and become, as you said,a better leader, right?
And so what I personally do isin the morning.
(24:30):
I'm a morning shower guy.
I was called weird a couple ofdays ago being a morning shower
guy, not a night shower guy, butI don't know.
Hopefully your audience is amorning shower people.
Dr. William Attaway (24:41):
I'm a morning shower guy.
I'll just Amazing, there we go.
Jordan Calderon (24:45):
That's the buy-in that I needed here.
Hour guy, I'll just amazing,there we go.
That's the buy in that I neededhere.
Anyways, in the mornings I takevery long showers.
I'm talking anywhere betweenlike 20 and 25 minute showers.
The reason why is because it'sit's my time.
It's my time to self reflect.
I also like the warm waterfeeling and the little massage
on my back that the waterpressure gives me.
But it's my time to think abouta couple of things.
(25:07):
And I go through this exerciseevery single morning where I
think what happened yesterday,or is there anything that I
could have done better?
How do I come better today andhow do I learn from those
lessons?
So it's not making these big,grandiose changes.
It's not like you know.
Some people, you know, getreally drunk on a Saturday and
(25:28):
then on a Sunday morning havethis big epiphany I got to go
change my whole life, right, I'mnever going to drink again.
It's not that type of mindsetmentality, but rather just
inching small little piece bypiece by piece by piece by piece
over the course of a longperiod of time.
And so on my birthdays I take aone hour shower because I don't
just look at what happens theday before and how I can be
better the day before.
(25:49):
But I look at, okay, last yearat this same time, 365 days ago
who was I and how have I changed?
And it's my self-reflectiontime and it's to the point where
my hands get pruney.
But I come out of that showerfeeling really good, because I'm
like, holy crap, I was an idiotjust a year ago and I've
learned so much.
And every single year I havethe same epiphany Dr Attaway,
(26:11):
it's, it's, it's.
It's actually quite funny, butit shows me that I am growing
and a lot of people rely on me.
I think I'm blessed to say that.
You know, I have the team sizethat I do.
And I look back and I feel veryprivileged to be able to put
food on, you know, 50, 60, 70people's tables at any given
(26:32):
time.
That's a crazy thing to say.
That's a crazy thing to say,but there's a responsibility
that comes behind that too.
So a lot of the things I thinkabout during this time are
leadership capabilities.
Right?
Oh, should I have been nicer tothat person?
Or, oh, should I have respondedto somebody's complaint in some
better way, right?
So life is just a big learninglesson.
There's no, really good rulebook, but being aware is always
(26:56):
the first good step of makingthe second step, which is change
.
Dr. William Attaway (27:01):
Well said.
And growth only happens on theother side of change.
So, as you continue to learn,as you continue to grow, is
there a book that's made a bigdifference in your journey that
you'd recommend to the leaderswho are listening?
Jordan Calderon (27:13):
Yeah, yeah, you know I'm not much of a book
guide, dr Attaway, and so Idon't have an amazing leadership
book for you.
But I will recommend how to Bea Capitalist Without Any Capital
by Nathan Latka, which has alot of really unique,
interesting lessons, verypractical.
You can go and start ittomorrow and take that
(27:36):
information that you learned.
But essentially that book goesthrough just ways to essentially
leverage the capitalist system,not just in monetary ways, but
just ways as a whole, and Idon't want to spoil it for
everybody, but I highlyrecommend it.
I recommend that a hundredtimes over.
I should absolutely be gettingcommissioned at this point, but
(27:58):
it is a phenomenal read ifsomebody wants to start taking
action today in terms of justhow to leverage just society,
the capitalist society that welive in.
It's a very interesting, uniqueand practical take I have not
read that.
Dr. William Attaway (28:14):
I'm going to check it out.
Thanks for that.
Jordan Calderon (28:15):
Yeah, yeah, I see there's a lot of books
behind you, so we can add onemore.
Dr. William Attaway (28:19):
One more.
That's right, there's alwaysroom for one more.
So think about your company,think about the business that
you've built, and I want you tothink about this question If I
could magically fix one bigproblem in your business right
now, if I could wave a wand andsolve it, what would you want
(28:39):
that problem to be?
Jordan Calderon (28:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, making sure that we have
the ability to pivot as fast asour customers want us to pivot.
So, right now, the digitalmarketing world AI is this
really big, scary monster underthe beds, and we do our best to
(29:03):
be AI adaptive.
We don't want to be AIresilient, because I think that
we're just trying to push away aproblem if we decide to take
that stance.
A lot of marketing agencies are, and I don't fully agree with
that.
But be AI adaptive and AI aware.
We actually hired a full-timeindividual to their main role is
to look at all of thesedifferent AI automation
(29:25):
companies software companies,agent companies, gen AI as well
that are coming out to do twothings One, look at how we can
leverage that internally as acompany, and then, secondly, how
we can leverage that for ourcustomers, where we try to stay
ahead of the curve.
The thing is, though, there isa new software or LLM or agent
(29:52):
company coming out like everythree seconds.
So, even with this full-timeresource, we still feel so ahead
of the curve and need to bebetter, because our customers
expect that excellence and wehold ourselves to very high
standards as well, but it's justthe market moving really,
really, really quickly.
So now I say that because Idon't know if I fully and just
(30:12):
being candid, have an answer atthis very moment, but it is very
top of mind for us.
It is a main discussion andline item for the agenda of our
leadership conversations andsomething that we definitely got
to figure out.
Dr. William Attaway (30:26):
Well, and I think you're spot on.
I mean, I'm speaking at twodifferent agency events next
month, and both of them arecentered around this idea of a
new model for agencies, thinkingthat things are going to shift
because of AI.
Things are going to move and ifwe don't get ahead of that, or
at least keep up with it,extinction is not far off.
Jordan Calderon (30:49):
To flip the script a little bit, I'm curious
how do you feel that agenciesare going to evolve, call it, in
the next five years?
How is that model going tochange?
Dr. William Attaway (30:59):
I think that personally, from the
clients that I work with,there's got to be a shift from a
race to the bottom, trying togo keep the lowest price, the
fastest offerings, to a muchmore human-centric approach
where you are hiring an agencyexecutive who is going to come
(31:20):
alongside you as a growthpartner, who's going to come
alongside you and help you thinkstrategically almost like what
I do as an executive coach formy clients, but from a marketing
perspective right, whereas I'mgoing to come alongside and help
you with leadership and mindsetand productivity.
I think an agency that makesthis shift is going to come
alongside and say we want tohelp you and come alongside you
(31:41):
and walk with you and provide aplace where you're going to get
the expertise that you need, butit's going to be more of as a
consultant than as just anotherad agency.
Does that make sense?
Jordan Calderon (32:07):
No, totally, and I actually hold a very
similar stance in the sense thatthat race to the bottom, does
that make sense?
So companies and agencies thatare on the executionary side of
things will just be outpricedand outperformed at the same
time, too.
And so, to your point, right,you say growth partner I like to
(32:28):
use the word operator right,it's essentially agencies.
Will be that operator to run ateam of AI agents or to run a
team of automations andframeworks?
Right, but somebody needs to besteering that ship, right, and
I think that that would be youknow agencies, or some very you
know smart consultants like youthat are ahead of the curve and
(32:49):
teaching your customers that aswell.
So, very good, yeah, no, I verymuch agree.
Dr. William Attaway (32:54):
Jordan, I could talk to you for another
hour about all of thesedifferent topics, because I
think there's so much synergyand you have so much insight
from your journey so far, and Iknow that your best days are
still ahead of you.
You know you are young andthere's so much ahead, and I
can't wait to see where you'regoing to go from here.
Jordan Calderon (33:13):
I appreciate that very much.
Thank you so much.
Fingers crossed as well.
I think I have some cool, funthings.
You know, I'm also in atransition where I am building
another company, which is myVirtual Desk.
It's a virtual assistantstaffing recruiting company with
a little bit of twist.
We're building something calledmy Virtual Desk AI, which is
(33:34):
essentially an assistant for theassistants that we place, which
allows them to make fewermistakes, higher output and,
from our early testing, seeing a3x productivity increase with
those individuals.
So it's like hiring threepeople for the price of one, but
that price is about a fifth ofthe cost, is what it'd be in the
(33:55):
United States.
So you know, to your pointright, it's getting as much done
, high productivity, low cost,and we're definitely leaning
into that in the virtualassistant world.
So building that as well too.
You know, maybe we hop back onthis conversation.
Dr. William Attaway (34:11):
I was just thinking.
Jordan Calderon (34:13):
Yeah, two or three years down the line and
you know, the conversation mightbe very different as well.
Dr. William Attaway (34:18):
I would love that.
That would be fantastic man.
Absolutely, absolutely I knowfolks are going to want to
connect with you and learn moreabout you and continue to learn
from you and all about StratDev.
What's the best way for them todo that?
Jordan Calderon (34:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
Go and check out my personalsite, jordancalderonme.
There's all of my links there.
There's my personal Instagramif you want to see the cool
foods that I'm eating all aroundthe world.
I have my LinkedIn there aswell.
If you'd like to follow me on aprofessional level, I share all
(34:52):
of my cool insights with thecustomers that we work with
personal lessons that I'velearned as well.
I'm highly transparent as well.
I don't just talk aboutsuccesses I think that that's
doing a disservice toentrepreneurs but also talking
about the failures, and, trustme, I have a lot more failures
than successes.
So, yeah, how's all myinformation there?
Twitter as well.
I just got on Twitter.
I think I have like sevenfollowers.
Maybe the audience number willbe eight and nine.
(35:14):
Please do follow me.
But the audience number will beeight and nine.
Please do follow me.
But, yeah, we have all of itthere.
So wwwjordancalderonme.
Dr. William Attaway (35:23):
And we'll have those links in the show
notes Lovely Jordan, thank youAppreciate your time, your
generosity today and sharingfrom your journey.
Jordan Calderon (35:31):
Absolutely Pleasure is mine, and thank you
as well for this lovelyconversation here.
I'm so excited today to have Jordan
Calderon on the podcast.
Jordan is a two-time exitfounder, the president of
StratDev, a top 100 US marketingfirm, and a guy who believes in
growing businesses the rightway, not the loudest way.
He's built a national collegeapparel company, scaled a
(00:21):
digital agency that hasgenerated over $150 million in
tracked client revenue and hasspoken at TEDx.
He's turned down acquisitionoffers for his current company
and started a wine brand alongthe way.
Today, he's going to share thehighs, the lows and the real
strategies behind scalingcompanies and how you can grow
(00:43):
smarter with the right mindset.
Jordan, I'm so glad you're here, man.
Thanks for being on the show.
Jordan Calderon (00:49):
Thank you so much, dr Attaway, and remind me,
if I ever change careerdirection here and become a
boxer, that I need to hire youas my ring announcer.
That was phenomenal.
Dr. William Attaway (00:59):
I'll keep that in mind.
Intro (01:03):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed
to help leaders intentionallygrow and thrive.
Here is your host author andleadership and executive coach,
dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:21):
I would love to start with you sharing a
little bit of your story withour listeners, particularly
around your journey and yourdevelopment as a leader.
How did you get?
Jordan Calderon (01:31):
started and a Justin Bieber looking hairdo
going into my first economicsclass as an economics major, and
so you know that class wasabout 90 minutes long and the
(01:55):
first minute I had the biggestsmile on my face, really, really
excited to learn abouteconomics.
Right, I had just earlier had aknack for business.
I like the idea of business.
I really thought, and due to myfather's kind of I don't want
to use the word grooming, butfor lack of better right pushing
me into the direction ofworking in a company, growing
and climbing up the corporateladder within that company,
(02:16):
economics just made a lot ofsense, right, and so very, very
excited, thinking, okay, well,let's see how it goes.
And by that 90th and lastminute of the class, I had that
frown turned upside down,realizing holy crap, and nothing
against UC, santa Barbara orreally any public university,
(02:36):
but I found out very quicklythat they teach it in a very
theoretical sense, one that isnot applicable or really
practical, right, I rememberthere was one economics class
that I took that there were nonumbers on that chalkboard, less
of the date that the professorwrote on that, and so it just
didn't feel like I couldactually do something with that,
and I, you know, it took 90minutes for me to come to that
(02:57):
conclusion.
So what did I do?
I ran back to my dorm room.
I looked up what was hot, whatwas popping, and back in 2017,
dropshipping was to be able toreally kind of start my own
career.
I didn't want to wait the fouryears.
Let's do something now.
And so I tried my hand atdropshipping.
Dr Attaway, I think it was acompany called Axiom Apparel we
(03:19):
found some Alibaba $10 watchesand belts and sunglasses to look
cool and you know, be your bestman, it was like a high value
man back in you know 2017 kindof thing.
So did that I don't know putmaybe $500 into it and it went
(03:40):
down in burning flames.
I ran through the 500 bucks.
I got maybe one purchase thatwas my like best friends, but
didn't turn into anythingfurther than that.
But I learned a lot of lessonsright.
This is my first time reallytrying to build a real business
and you know that $500 turnedinto me trying again and
(04:02):
avoiding some of the failuresthat I had or lessons that I had
learned right in that firsttime.
And so I tried my hand again,created a completely different
dropshipping company and I endedup failing again.
And then I took those lessonsand then I turned it into
another business, anothere-commerce dropshipping business
, and I failed again.
And the fourth time I said,okay, you know what?
(04:22):
Dropshipping isn't maybe for me, but I've learned a lot of
things on Shopify.
I've learned how to runadvertisements.
I've learned how to marketsomething a little bit right.
What can I do that I have areally good passion with, that I
can kind of maximize my chancesof succeeding with.
And so at that time, being afreshman at a party school as
you see, santa Barbara well, youknow what.
What about the people?
(04:51):
What do the kids want, right?
And so I started asking a lotof my friends.
I said, hey, what is somethingthat you want out of college
that you don't have?
And I remember I was in abrainstorming session with a
couple of my friends and theyall came to the conclusion you
know what I want?
College apparel that representsme, that represents the school,
not just with the universitylettering established 1972 or
whatever it is right but rathersomething that speaks to the
culture, speaks to the studentsof those organizations.
(05:14):
And so that ended up inaccepting a company called
College Cloud, in which weworked with fraternities,
sororities, clubs andorganizations across school
campuses to create customdesigns, slapped it on a t-shirt
and then sent it out to thatclub or organization as a whole.
So, for example, you are asorority doing bid day and your
(05:35):
sorority is really well knownfor you know pink bows and
things like that.
We can make a design thatencapsulates that vision that
you want.
Put that on a t-shirt.
Now everyone has a matchingt-shirt for bid day, right?
Or there's a dance club, youknow, at ASU.
At ASU they want, end of theyear they have a dance
tournament.
They want all the same hats andsweatshirts and hoodies and
(05:57):
things like that to all have thesame swag.
We can go out and create thatfor them and put their personal
spin to it and then, workingsometimes with universities as
well, to go ahead and createthat for them and put their
personal spin to it.
And then, working sometimeswith universities as well, to go
ahead and make, you know,football day t-shirts and things
of that nature that reallyspeak to the students rather
than keeping I like to call itcollege corporate style designs
(06:21):
here.
So that ended up taking off andover the course of my college
career I grew that to a prettyhealthy number, before I ended
up selling that company to acompany called Greek House in
2021 with Luke McGurran andKarthik Shanadi, and so with
that, I had learned a lot ofleadership skills.
(06:43):
I ended up building anambassador brand of 300
individuals across the UnitedStates that trusted me for their
paycheck, and so I would hop oncalls, with all these 300
people being the same age asthem, learning, hey, okay,
you're looking at me like I'mthe boss.
How do I act like a boss?
And so it was a phenomenal,honestly learning lesson that I
(07:05):
did get some success out of.
That really, I think,kickstarted my entrepreneurial
journey and that, you know,incepted a lot of confidence in
me to go build a lot of otherbusinesses, where now I am, you
know, the solely sworn leader ofa lot of different businesses,
and that has been a blessing initself as well.
Dr. William Attaway (07:23):
Love that.
I love the genesis of yourstory.
You know I mean coming into theacademic environment and
recognizing so quickly what I'mlooking for is actually
something a little bit different.
That's fascinating.
I think it's so important forthe leaders who are listening to
recognize that.
(07:44):
You know, despite the bestefforts of so many, there's not
a one size fits all to this.
There's not a one path thatfits everybody.
You created a new path based onyour wiring, so you've sold two
companies.
Jordan Calderon (07:58):
Jordan, that's right, yep.
Dr. William Attaway (08:01):
What is something that, as the leaders
who are listening are thinkingabout what it would be like to
sell their company.
What is something that peopledon't normally think about when
they are exiting or gettingready to exit?
Jordan Calderon (08:43):
Yeah, yeah, that's a phenomenal built the
business the way that I want to,and now I want to go sell the
business.
You're going to find thatyou've probably built it in a
way that makes it very hard toassume for somebody else,
because you built it around youright and so you want to sell
that business.
But instead that mindset shouldbe, before you decide to get to
that point, how to build asellable business, to then go
and sell that business, right,and so that information and
(09:07):
advice turned into with both ofmy companies before I sold those
companies Right, I knew in theback of my mind OK, I'm getting
close to that 11th hour.
Right now, start to think aboutwhat do buyers really care
about?
And so buyers care about acouple of things, right.
They care about seeing growth.
They care about seeing reallystrong SOPs or standard
operating procedures inbusinesses, having clean
(09:29):
accounting, having a team thatis not going to run and leave
the second, that a newmanagement comes in, things like
this.
And so it's a big checklist,right, and you want to go
through this checklist to makesure that you are building that
sellable business and that, whenthe time comes and you hit that
11th hour right.
You are prepared.
That in turn, maximizes yourvaluation that you have for the
(09:50):
business as well, so you usuallyget some more money out of it
too.
Right, because it makes itreally easy for the buyer to
come in.
Both times that I sold mybusinesses, the same comment was
passed by the new management,which is wow, jordan, you made
it really easy to assume thisbusiness.
You have all your SHIT together, right, and so it was a very
(10:11):
enjoyable experience in boththose occurrences because of my
ability to build that sellablebusiness.
So something that I learned, Iguess, in real time, but has
been highly applicable andhelpful in both those situations
.
Dr. William Attaway (10:24):
I think that's very practical
information, because I watch toomany founders create a business
that is centered around them.
That's right when they're atthe center of the spider web and
everything connects to them.
You can't sell that because youcan't sell yourself.
Jordan Calderon (10:37):
Exactly.
It's an extension of you, right, and so you want to be able to
fully separate yourself too.
I guess probably the biggestthing on that checklist is how
do you remove yourself right?
Founder led sales, founder ledoperations exactly Marketing,
whatever it is and so buyers getvery scared when you are part
of the business because theycan't buy you Right.
(11:00):
So totally Great.
Dr. William Attaway (11:02):
That's it.
So how did you get from collegeapparel to marketing?
Jordan Calderon (11:07):
Yeah, great question.
I, through many sleeplessnights in college, taught myself
marketing to market thiscollege apparel company.
I mean, there was a period oftime every single day, till
three, four in the morning, I'dbe on YouTube, watching YouTube
videos of how to run a Facebookad, how to create an SEO blog,
(11:28):
how to X, y and Z, to the pointwhere my girlfriend at the time
was like get the hell back tobed, what are you doing here,
right, where's my boyfriend?
And so, with that, I learned alot of things and grew the
business and fully bootstrappedthat business to get to the
point where we're able to goahead and sell.
And so when I did sell thatbusiness, I really thought to
myself wow, what should I donext?
(11:51):
Cause I knew that I wanted tobuild another business, but
where could I provide a lot ofvalue?
I've always been a value firsttype of entrepreneur, right?
I don't want to sell somethingthat, uh, it doesn't have any
value.
I don't want to create a SaaScompany that the reason why
we're growing in revenue isbecause people forget to cancel,
right?
I want people to actually wantto use the product or service.
(12:11):
And so I thought again, thoughtto myself how can I be of value
?
And I looked at my own companythat I had just sold and saw it
more or less as a case study,saying, wow, I was able to do
this for my company, I want todo this for other companies.
So that was the inception ofStratDev, which is a full
(12:48):
service digital marketing firmin the United States, that it
was started because of YouTubevideos and my understanding of
marketing because of it.
It's been a very fun journeybut, regardless, that was a
transition between the two.
Dr. William Attaway (13:01):
And you've built your agency into a pretty
significant size, to the pointwhere people have been making
acquisition offers that you haveturned down.
Can you share a little bitabout that and why you would
turn down what I'm guessing wereprobably some decent offers?
Jordan Calderon (13:20):
They were, they were, and you know, back at 24
years old, in 2023, when I got11 letters of intent from 11
unique entities to buy StratDev,I was very much thinking to
myself yeah, some of these arepretty nice but hard to turn
down.
And you ask a really goodquestion why did I turn those
down?
And the reason why was not afinancial decision, but rather
(13:51):
more or less a bet on myself,where I looked internally and
said do I think?
Well, I asked myself a coupleof things.
The first thing that I asked isdo I think that I am at my end,
where I could not grow thisbusiness more?
I asked myself do I think thatI am over it?
(14:14):
Personally, emotionally, right,I think that a lot of
entrepreneurs have like a like apeak productivity, uh period in
their business, and once youexhaust that, it becomes a lot
harder to grow and scale becauseyour heart's just not and it
kind of comes like an estrangedchild in a certain sense to you.
And so do I wake up everysingle day?
And am I still excited to buildStratDev?
(14:34):
And the answer was no's andyes's.
In terms of no, I was not at mypeak.
Yes, I'm still excited to wakeup every single day.
And so at that point I realized, okay, you know what, let me
continue to build this because Ithink I can build it higher.
And now, looking retrospectively, you know, as this was two
years ago.
Right, I'm like, oh yeah, Imade the right decision.
(14:56):
I was very, very, very happy.
We've been able to grow alittle over 2x since that point
in terms of headcount, in termsof revenue, as well as in terms
of EBITDA numbers, which is howa lot of digital marketing firms
are you know the valuation isbuilt off of.
So I've been able to go andincrease the value of that
business and I'm happy, lookingretrospectively, even from a
(15:18):
financial decision andstandpoint, that I said no to
those offers because I wouldhave been significantly worse
off if I had assuming that I didnothing after and that you know
that wasn't the next Tesla orGoogle or whatever.
That is Right, so yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (15:32):
You know, as more and more people have
started to listen to the showand continue to give us feedback
on what resonates the most, oneof the things that really pops
in the feedback that we get iswhen somebody shares their story
, just like what you're doingand can share.
You know, hey, this was thiswas something that I didn't know
(15:52):
, that I learned along the wayas you were building your agency
.
Can you think of something likethat that you know?
I wish I had known this at thebeginning, but it's something
that I learned along the way andnow you can't unsee it once.
You see it, yeah.
Jordan Calderon (16:07):
Yeah, yeah, um, there are so many things that
come to mind right now.
I mean, I can tell you thatI've built these businesses.
Learning by doing everything isusually I get from step one and
I put a foot ahead and I get tostep two, and then I try to
just take a step three and then,oh, that's not the right
decision.
(16:28):
Oh, that's not the rightdecision.
Oh, that's not the rightdecision.
Then I find that path and thenI get to step four, and so I
continuously learn these thingsand when I turn my head back I
realize, holy crap, I've learneda lot of lessons along the way.
A couple of them that justreally stand out is hire slowly,
fire quick.
A teammate that is not a goodfit for your business is so much
(16:53):
more expensive in terms ofopportunity costs or even direct
loss of revenue by keeping themon rather than firing that
individual.
As a founder, I've had to makevery difficult decisions and
fire some individuals that, froma personal perspective, I would
not have wanted to fire, justfrom being friends with these
(17:15):
people, and I've definitely shedsome tears just speaking
honestly here.
But it's the right thing forthe business and it ultimately
ends up being the right thing.
For them as well.
There's one individual thatcomes to mind without speaking
their name thing.
For them as well.
There's one individual thatcomes to mind without speaking
their name.
You know, there was acommission incentive.
They were a really good friendof mine and they were not able
to close or hit those KPIs asthey were expected to, and so
(17:37):
they were not making too muchmoney.
Stratdev was also not making asmuch as they thought and was
investing more into thatrelationship than we were
getting out of that and, as aresult, both of us were in a
situation of wow, we are worseoff now because of this, and so
he ended up.
You know, we made the mutualdecision to leave, and now he's
making a lot more and is very,very happy.
(17:57):
So it all works out at the endof the day.
Now we are too.
So there's that.
Another thing that comes to mindis really caring about your
team.
I think that we're B2B serviceand I think that you can draw a
very direct parallel in terms ofif your team is happy, and
because your team is really yourbusiness, then your customers
(18:18):
will be happy as well.
Right, happy team equals happycustomers, but this is also true
with software companies.
This is also true with teammembers that don't exactly touch
or directly client facing.
In a lot of ways, having ahappy team is the backbone of
your business.
I mean, that's why unions exist, right, we've seen how, if
everybody turns against abusiness, how weak that business
(18:40):
actually is.
If everybody at you know Appleon the factory machines decides
to stop working tomorrow, thatbusiness goes down to pretty
much zero in value.
Right, and so it really is theteam.
I have never really had a realjob where I've had an employee
or had a boss and I was anemployee state.
(19:00):
But I've heard just fromfriends I'm a younger guy, right
, a lot of my friends are intheir entry level jobs or
getting promoted or gettingfired or moving to the next step
, right, they're in that kind ofinflection point of their
career and I hear so manystories of, oh, my boss was an
a-hole here or I didn't like howthe company did this and that,
(19:22):
and so I don't just hear thosestories saying, oh, wow, that
sucks, and then I go off and domy own thing with my businesses,
but I absorb it like a sponge,right, hearing okay, don't do
that, don't do that, don't dothat, do the opposite of that,
and so that in turn, has reallybuilt a high level of awareness
for the happiness of my team.
I care about team culture.
(19:43):
That is, I think, my number oneresponsibility as a president
of the company.
We take very good care of ourcustomers.
I give bonuses out all the timelike it's candy and it makes
people feel really good.
The result of that is that ourteam very rarely leaves.
There is, at least to myknowledge, not been any one that
(20:04):
has left my company everbecause they did not enjoy
working at the company, butbecause you know it's the next
step in their career, or theywant a career change, or it's a
personal reason, right, and youknow, even looking at Glassdoor
which I didn't even know thatpeople were reviewing us on just
a couple of months ago we havea 4.9 star on Glassdoor and, I
(20:26):
think, close to 100% CEOapproval rating, which is
awesome.
Didn't even ask for that, nonesolicited.
But it turns into greatperformance for our customers
too.
That's why we're able to dosuch a good job, because our
team actually likes us andtherefore has vested interest in
our customers too, which makesand builds a really good company
as a whole.
So those are two things thatI'll leave the audience members
(20:49):
to ponder and think about.
Don't forget about the team andalso fire quickly if it's not
the right fit for your team.
Dr. William Attaway (20:57):
I love that and it's such a great piece of
advice, both, but the latter inparticular.
So often we think by well,we'll give them another chance,
well, we'll just hang on alittle bit longer, well, we'll
just hope.
Hope's a terrible strategy andyou're holding that person back
from a better fit, and so oftenthe owners and founders do not
think about that, but you areholding them back and you are
(21:19):
holding the rest of your teamback from the synergy and the
performance that you could beachieving when you have somebody
who is the right fit for thatseat on the bus.
Jordan Calderon (21:30):
I love that you shared that.
Yeah, that's right, and it kindof goes back to the age-old
saying you're only as fast asyour slowest team member, or
something along the lines ofthat.
I mean, it's super true, right?
It might sound cheesy, but I'veseen it time and time and time
again.
So we want to make sure thateverybody's moving as fast as
possible and there's a goodcamaraderie in between as well.
Dr. William Attaway (21:50):
So StratDev is full stack marketing.
Where do you focus?
Who's your ideal client?
Jordan Calderon (21:55):
Yeah, yeah.
So we love our tech startupcompanies.
So think of tech-enableddigital services, digital
products, digital software, saascompanies, things like that.
Usually we see a really goodtraction and track record with
customers that already have alittle bit of traction, so
(22:17):
they're not starting at zero.
Call it anywhere between amillion dollars in ARR all the
way up to anywhere between 20and 50 million dollars in ARR,
depending on how quickly theybuild out their marketing team.
We don't usually work withbigger and when we build
companies at that point weusually don't work past that,
and the reason why is becausethey graduate us.
In a certain sense, it's thebest feeling.
(22:38):
It's bittersweet, but it's goodfor them and that's what
matters.
But that's really where oursweet spot is, and we've been
able to um hit our targets 94 ofthe time with customers that
fit those parameters remarkable,uh, marketing is not magic, but
that's as close to a number asmagic, I think and this is why
(23:00):
you're a top 100 firm right,yeah because you produce results
for the clients consistentlyand predictably.
It's also a level of beingrelatively exclusive.
We're in the blessed positionof being able to say no more
than yes with our customers, andso you know, if we're taking
everybody on, then we are notable to protect those numbers.
(23:21):
But that's not the case.
I love that.
Dr. William Attaway (23:25):
Thank you, jordan.
As you have continued to growStratDev, you know you've had to
grow as a leader.
You're not the same leader youwere five years ago and five
years from now, your team andyour clients are going to need
you to lead at an even higherlevel.
How do you stay on top of yourgame personally?
How do you level up with thosenew leadership skills that
(23:47):
they're going to need you tohave?
Jordan Calderon (23:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I'm a young founder and Ithink young founders are highly
susceptible to making mistakes,and I am not immune myself
either.
I make a lot of mistakes.
I also believe that death onearth is when you personally
don't grow right.
When you turn 30 years old andthen you look back, it's like I
(24:10):
haven't changed a bit since Iwas 20.
Yeah, that's not livingpersonally, um and so, and so
you know, as a busy founder, Ineed to or I found that I need
to carve out some time, uh, tobe able to actually think and
reflect and become, as you said,a better leader, right?
And so what I personally do isin the morning.
(24:30):
I'm a morning shower guy.
I was called weird a couple ofdays ago being a morning shower
guy, not a night shower guy, butI don't know.
Hopefully your audience is amorning shower people.
Dr. William Attaway (24:41):
I'm a morning shower guy.
I'll just Amazing, there we go.
Jordan Calderon (24:45):
That's the buy-in that I needed here.
Hour guy, I'll just amazing,there we go.
That's the buy in that I neededhere.
Anyways, in the mornings I takevery long showers.
I'm talking anywhere betweenlike 20 and 25 minute showers.
The reason why is because it'sit's my time.
It's my time to self reflect.
I also like the warm waterfeeling and the little massage
on my back that the waterpressure gives me.
But it's my time to think abouta couple of things.
(25:07):
And I go through this exerciseevery single morning where I
think what happened yesterday,or is there anything that I
could have done better?
How do I come better today andhow do I learn from those
lessons?
So it's not making these big,grandiose changes.
It's not like you know.
Some people, you know, getreally drunk on a Saturday and
(25:28):
then on a Sunday morning havethis big epiphany I got to go
change my whole life, right, I'mnever going to drink again.
It's not that type of mindsetmentality, but rather just
inching small little piece bypiece by piece by piece by piece
over the course of a longperiod of time.
And so on my birthdays I take aone hour shower because I don't
just look at what happens theday before and how I can be
better the day before.
(25:49):
But I look at, okay, last yearat this same time, 365 days ago
who was I and how have I changed?
And it's my self-reflectiontime and it's to the point where
my hands get pruney.
But I come out of that showerfeeling really good, because I'm
like, holy crap, I was an idiotjust a year ago and I've
learned so much.
And every single year I havethe same epiphany Dr Attaway,
(26:11):
it's, it's, it's.
It's actually quite funny, butit shows me that I am growing
and a lot of people rely on me.
I think I'm blessed to say that.
You know, I have the team sizethat I do.
And I look back and I feel veryprivileged to be able to put
food on, you know, 50, 60, 70people's tables at any given
(26:32):
time.
That's a crazy thing to say.
That's a crazy thing to say,but there's a responsibility
that comes behind that too.
So a lot of the things I thinkabout during this time are
leadership capabilities.
Right?
Oh, should I have been nicer tothat person?
Or, oh, should I have respondedto somebody's complaint in some
better way, right?
So life is just a big learninglesson.
There's no, really good rulebook, but being aware is always
(26:56):
the first good step of makingthe second step, which is change
.
Dr. William Attaway (27:01):
Well said.
And growth only happens on theother side of change.
So, as you continue to learn,as you continue to grow, is
there a book that's made a bigdifference in your journey that
you'd recommend to the leaderswho are listening?
Jordan Calderon (27:13):
Yeah, yeah, you know I'm not much of a book
guide, dr Attaway, and so Idon't have an amazing leadership
book for you.
But I will recommend how to Bea Capitalist Without Any Capital
by Nathan Latka, which has alot of really unique,
interesting lessons, verypractical.
You can go and start ittomorrow and take that
(27:36):
information that you learned.
But essentially that book goesthrough just ways to essentially
leverage the capitalist system,not just in monetary ways, but
just ways as a whole, and Idon't want to spoil it for
everybody, but I highlyrecommend it.
I recommend that a hundredtimes over.
I should absolutely be gettingcommissioned at this point, but
(27:58):
it is a phenomenal read ifsomebody wants to start taking
action today in terms of justhow to leverage just society,
the capitalist society that welive in.
It's a very interesting, uniqueand practical take I have not
read that.
Dr. William Attaway (28:14):
I'm going to check it out.
Thanks for that.
Jordan Calderon (28:15):
Yeah, yeah, I see there's a lot of books
behind you, so we can add onemore.
Dr. William Attaway (28:19):
One more.
That's right, there's alwaysroom for one more.
So think about your company,think about the business that
you've built, and I want you tothink about this question If I
could magically fix one bigproblem in your business right
now, if I could wave a wand andsolve it, what would you want
(28:39):
that problem to be?
Jordan Calderon (28:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, making sure that we have
the ability to pivot as fast asour customers want us to pivot.
So, right now, the digitalmarketing world AI is this
really big, scary monster underthe beds, and we do our best to
(29:03):
be AI adaptive.
We don't want to be AIresilient, because I think that
we're just trying to push away aproblem if we decide to take
that stance.
A lot of marketing agencies are, and I don't fully agree with
that.
But be AI adaptive and AI aware.
We actually hired a full-timeindividual to their main role is
to look at all of thesedifferent AI automation
(29:25):
companies software companies,agent companies, gen AI as well
that are coming out to do twothings One, look at how we can
leverage that internally as acompany, and then, secondly, how
we can leverage that for ourcustomers, where we try to stay
ahead of the curve.
The thing is, though, there isa new software or LLM or agent
(29:52):
company coming out like everythree seconds.
So, even with this full-timeresource, we still feel so ahead
of the curve and need to bebetter, because our customers
expect that excellence and wehold ourselves to very high
standards as well, but it's justthe market moving really,
really, really quickly.
So now I say that because Idon't know if I fully and just
(30:12):
being candid, have an answer atthis very moment, but it is very
top of mind for us.
It is a main discussion andline item for the agenda of our
leadership conversations andsomething that we definitely got
to figure out.
Dr. William Attaway (30:26):
Well, and I think you're spot on.
I mean, I'm speaking at twodifferent agency events next
month, and both of them arecentered around this idea of a
new model for agencies, thinkingthat things are going to shift
because of AI.
Things are going to move and ifwe don't get ahead of that, or
at least keep up with it,extinction is not far off.
Jordan Calderon (30:49):
To flip the script a little bit, I'm curious
how do you feel that agenciesare going to evolve, call it, in
the next five years?
How is that model going tochange?
Dr. William Attaway (30:59):
I think that personally, from the
clients that I work with,there's got to be a shift from a
race to the bottom, trying togo keep the lowest price, the
fastest offerings, to a muchmore human-centric approach
where you are hiring an agencyexecutive who is going to come
(31:20):
alongside you as a growthpartner, who's going to come
alongside you and help you thinkstrategically almost like what
I do as an executive coach formy clients, but from a marketing
perspective right, whereas I'mgoing to come alongside and help
you with leadership and mindsetand productivity.
I think an agency that makesthis shift is going to come
alongside and say we want tohelp you and come alongside you
(31:41):
and walk with you and provide aplace where you're going to get
the expertise that you need, butit's going to be more of as a
consultant than as just anotherad agency.
Does that make sense?
Jordan Calderon (32:07):
No, totally, and I actually hold a very
similar stance in the sense thatthat race to the bottom, does
that make sense?
So companies and agencies thatare on the executionary side of
things will just be outpricedand outperformed at the same
time, too.
And so, to your point, right,you say growth partner I like to
(32:28):
use the word operator right,it's essentially agencies.
Will be that operator to run ateam of AI agents or to run a
team of automations andframeworks?
Right, but somebody needs to besteering that ship, right, and
I think that that would be youknow agencies, or some very you
know smart consultants like youthat are ahead of the curve and
(32:49):
teaching your customers that aswell.
So, very good, yeah, no, I verymuch agree.
Dr. William Attaway (32:54):
Jordan, I could talk to you for another
hour about all of thesedifferent topics, because I
think there's so much synergyand you have so much insight
from your journey so far, and Iknow that your best days are
still ahead of you.
You know you are young andthere's so much ahead, and I
can't wait to see where you'regoing to go from here.
Jordan Calderon (33:13):
I appreciate that very much.
Thank you so much.
Fingers crossed as well.
I think I have some cool, funthings.
You know, I'm also in atransition where I am building
another company, which is myVirtual Desk.
It's a virtual assistantstaffing recruiting company with
a little bit of twist.
We're building something calledmy Virtual Desk AI, which is
(33:34):
essentially an assistant for theassistants that we place, which
allows them to make fewermistakes, higher output and,
from our early testing, seeing a3x productivity increase with
those individuals.
So it's like hiring threepeople for the price of one, but
that price is about a fifth ofthe cost, is what it'd be in the
(33:55):
United States.
So you know, to your pointright, it's getting as much done
, high productivity, low cost,and we're definitely leaning
into that in the virtualassistant world.
So building that as well too.
You know, maybe we hop back onthis conversation.
Dr. William Attaway (34:11):
I was just thinking.
Jordan Calderon (34:13):
Yeah, two or three years down the line and
you know, the conversation mightbe very different as well.
Dr. William Attaway (34:18):
I would love that.
That would be fantastic man.
Absolutely, absolutely I knowfolks are going to want to
connect with you and learn moreabout you and continue to learn
from you and all about StratDev.
What's the best way for them todo that?
Jordan Calderon (34:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
Go and check out my personalsite, jordancalderonme.
There's all of my links there.
There's my personal Instagramif you want to see the cool
foods that I'm eating all aroundthe world.
I have my LinkedIn there aswell.
If you'd like to follow me on aprofessional level, I share all
(34:52):
of my cool insights with thecustomers that we work with
personal lessons that I'velearned as well.
I'm highly transparent as well.
I don't just talk aboutsuccesses I think that that's
doing a disservice toentrepreneurs but also talking
about the failures, and, trustme, I have a lot more failures
than successes.
So, yeah, how's all myinformation there?
Twitter as well.
I just got on Twitter.
I think I have like sevenfollowers.
Maybe the audience number willbe eight and nine.
(35:14):
Please do follow me.
But the audience number will beeight and nine.
Please do follow me.
But, yeah, we have all of itthere.
So wwwjordancalderonme.
Dr. William Attaway (35:23):
And we'll have those links in the show
notes Lovely Jordan, thank youAppreciate your time, your
generosity today and sharingfrom your journey.
Jordan Calderon (35:31):
Absolutely Pleasure is mine, and thank you
as well for this lovelyconversation here.
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