July 24, 2025 • 34 mins
Team tension rarely starts loud—but left unaddressed, it will quietly stall momentum, drain energy, and cost you real money. I’ve seen it happen in fast-scaling digital agencies more times than I can count. In this episode, I’m joined by Greg Stephens—executive coach, bestselling author, and founder of Alignment Resources—who’s spent 25+ years helping leaders master the one thing most avoid: hard conversations.
Greg shares how leadership conflict resolution isn’t about theory—it’s a repeatable system that transforms how your team performs, how you lead under pressure, and how you recover trust when it's been eroded. If you’re scaling past 7-figures and noticing communication breakdowns, bottlenecks, or culture cracks, this is the system worth learning.
You’ll hear real-world breakthroughs—from executive teams and plant managers to family businesses—and walk away with actionable insight to lead better conversations, faster decisions, and stronger alignment.
📚 Books Mentioned
- Awareness by Anthony de Mello
- The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz
- Greenlights by Matthew McConaughey
- 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership by Jim Dethmer, Diana Chapman, Kaley Warner Klemp
- Crucial Conversations by Patterson, Grenny, McMillan, Switzler
- Crucial Accountability by Patterson, Grenny, McMillan, Switzler
- Crucial Influence by Patterson, Grenny, McMillan, Switzler
- Do You Take Your Own Advice? by Anidio Mahal
To learn more from Greg or explore his leadership conflict resolution programs, visit alignment-resources.com or connect with him directly at greg@alignment-resources.com. Check out his book, Build New Bridges, and his upcoming podcast A Spiritual Peace.
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
- Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:
Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
- Special Offer:
Get your FREE copy of Catalytic Leadership: 12 Keys to Becoming an Intentional Leader Who Makes a Difference.
Connect with Dr. William Attaway:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. William Attaway (00:00):
I'm excited today to have Greg Stevens on
the podcast.
Greg holds a degree from BaylorUniversity and is a
best-selling author, keynotespeaker, executive coach,
communication consultant,professional mediator, master
trainer, certified behavioralanalyst and two-time podcaster.
His new book Build New Bridgesthe Art of Restoring Impossible
(00:24):
Relationships has helped peoplearound the world to repair
relationships they once thoughtwere beyond repair.
Greg has over 28 years ofpractical business experience
and has worked with numerousFortune 500 companies and
national organizations acrossevery industry and service
category.
Greg, I'm so glad you're here.
(00:46):
Thanks for being on the show.
Intro (00:54):
William, thanks so much for having me.
It's a real honor to be here.
I appreciate it.
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help
leaders intentionally grow andthrive.
Here is your host, author andleadership and executive coach,
Dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:12):
I would love to start, Greg, with you
sharing some of your story withour listeners, particularly
around your journey anddevelopment as a leader.
How'd this all get started?
Greg Stephens (01:26):
as a leader.
How'd this all get started?
That's a great question.
I never looked to do what I'mdoing today Teaching leadership
programs, even being anexecutive coach none of that was
in my sights as I was growingup.
I wanted to be in sales.
I enjoyed sales.
I didn't really know when Istarted Baylor what I wanted to
do, but I ended up sellingcemetery property door to door
(01:50):
in Houston, texas, to put myselfthrough Baylor because I was on
my own at 17.
And I learned in eight weeks.
I actually paid for an entireyear at Baylor doing that, oh my
goodness.
And I learned to get cussed outevery day.
But I also.
(02:11):
When I finished that summer Iwas really bulletproof in a lot
of ways.
But I never expected to bedoing this work, one of the
things my company would do.
I worked for a pharmaceuticalcompany for 13 years and when I
started working for them, theywould pay for me to take any
type of courses, traditional andnon-traditional.
(02:33):
So I thought I've just putmyself through four years of
college where I paid for it, I'mgoing to get something back.
So for 12 of those 13 years Itook classes in sociology,
psychology, human development,human behavior, human potential,
traditional, non-traditionalanything I could do and I
(02:56):
engaged with a course called theForum, with Landmark Forum,
with a group called LandmarkEducation, and that really
changed my life and it put me ona trajectory of having
integrity in my life, takingresponsibility where I hadn't,
and I ended up running into alife coach that I ended up
(03:19):
hiring and I was actuallyoutgrowing my business and I was
looking at an acting career andI'm inside and had an agent,
had done some plays and thingshere in Austin.
And one day with my life coach,I said I love it when I'm on
stage, I love that moment.
But I said the rest of itdoesn't call to me like I
(03:41):
thought it would.
But one of the things I foundis when you start shooting for a
target around doing somethingdifferent, the right thing shows
up for you and it doesn'thappen sitting on the couch
wishing or wishing somethingwould change.
You've got to get out and dosomething.
And me getting out and findingan acting coach, finding an
(04:06):
agent, getting out doing playsand ads and things like that
actually propelled me intofinding something.
And I came to my life coach.
I just said this just doesn'tcall to me.
He said have you ever thoughtabout doing what I do coaching
and training and he taught aman-woman relationship class and
I loved it and I said, no, I'venever thought about doing this.
(04:28):
And he said, well, think aboutit.
About a week later I came backI said, well, what should I do?
And he said, well, there's thisnew thing you can take online.
But he said, I believe in doinga true apprenticeship.
So I ended up working for abouttwo, two and a half years
actually coaching for free,producing courses for him.
(04:48):
He was teaching me inleadership and I did free
coaching and he helped andcoached me along the way.
And I did all that whilekeeping my own business and not
keeping my business, butactually working for the
pharmaceutical company.
So I was doing all of this onthe side.
So you can imagine I was reallybusy.
And then, about two and a halfyears later, I went out on my
(05:11):
own and just jumped off and Ifound leadership is really to be
a leader, you need followers.
That's the true definition.
If you have followers, you're aleader and you can lead from
anywhere you are.
But I learned to look for myvision and go where I needed to
go, and people just startedshowing up.
(05:33):
Of course, I went out and beatthe bushes trying to get people
in my courses and do thosethings.
But I found the most powerfulthing is that the best clients
for me show up, the people whoreally need leadership skills.
Show up, the people who and Ispecialize in an area where I
teach people how to have thehardest conversations of their
(05:54):
life and I teach them in asix-month period to do that for
the rest of their life so manypeople will take courses.
So many people will takecourses, and I taught Crucial
Conversations as a mastertrainer, as a hired consultant
with Crucial Learning for 24years, taught that class
(06:15):
everywhere.
It's one of the best trainingclasses anyone could ever take.
But what I found was leaderswere coming out saying that was
the best class and then twomonths later they're not using
it.
Well, you have to have anapplication and it takes time.
You don't bake a lasagna.
You don't bake lasagna in fiveminutes.
It takes time to do that.
(06:35):
And so now what I'm doing.
After I wrote my book, I steppedout on my own to actually help
people.
I stepped out on my own toactually help people.
I found it's about a 20-weekprocess.
I've created a process usingdifferent materials, but in 20
weeks I teach people how to havethe conversations they
(06:56):
continually typically avoid orhandle poorly, and I teach them
in 20 weeks how to lean intothem, how to actually apply the
skills, how to manage theiremotions, how to address the
emotions of others, how tocreate psychological safety in
the moment, how to listenproperly, how to under, actually
(07:19):
investigate and find theunderlying issues when
accountability is not there, howto do all that and build the
relationship at the same time.
So it takes time to do that andwe don't throw people in on the
deep end at first.
We actually walk them out thereand the process is really
(07:39):
amazing to watch people havebreakthroughs about
self-awareness and how they'vebeen showing up in these
conversations.
Typically, leaders come in andthey think they do pretty well
at these because they've risento a certain level and they've
done certain things really well.
But what we've found theseskills that I'm teaching most
(08:00):
people don't have.
Less than 2% of people I runinto are really good at this.
Dr. William Attaway (08:06):
I remember about 25 years ago hearing
Joseph Grenny talk about CrucialConversations.
Greg Stephens (08:11):
He is awesome.
Dr. William Attaway (08:12):
Yeah, my goodness, what a powerful thing
that was for me to hear somebodyaddress that, and I'll tell you
so many of the people who cometo me and hire me to help them.
It's around having difficultconversations.
It's around learning this.
When I met you and heard whatyou're doing and the book that
(08:33):
you've written, I was like okay,this is a phenomenal resource.
Here's a six-month program thatcan help people seriously dive
deep on this.
This is absolutely.
This is something I think weshould be teaching in
kindergarten, like how to havedifficult conversations, because
it will serve you in every areaof your life for the rest of
your life.
(08:53):
Yet I find people in theirforties, fifties and beyond who
have never learned this skill.
Greg Stephens (09:00):
Absolutely, and that's one of the reasons we've
just started a program, aleadership program for, and
we're marketing toward theparents or grandparents of kids
who are 21 to 28 years old.
Maybe they're a senior incollege or maybe doing a gap
year, or maybe they're early onthe first one to five years in
their career, and what we'reteaching them now in the
(09:33):
leadership program are otherleadership pieces, but also
these conversational pieces, toactually become better at having
them.
Because what we typically findis we're going to be teaching
the next generation of leaderswhat this generation of leaders
are having problems with and wewant to make sure we prepare
them.
And you know I love workingwith all my clients but, as you
know, there's a different energythat comes with different
levels of leadership.
(09:54):
You have early leaders,emerging leaders.
There is a openness to reallytry new things and typically,
when I'm working with executives, I'm working with those
executives who are lifelongleaders, those who typically
aren't, but there's a lot ofthem.
They aren't coachable and Iknow how to do it.
(10:18):
None of us does it alone.
As John Maxwell says, we needothers to help lift us up and
early on, we feel like that willbe helpful to teach leaders
early on to reach out, to havethese conversations, to lean in.
I believe Nitro boosts theircareer and their life because
(10:39):
the side effect is alsointeresting, because they start
having conversations with theirparents they've never had, wow
yeah, and so it really helpsacross their entire life.
Because we think wecompartmentalize our life but we
bring our home life to work andour work life home and you're a
(11:02):
whole person and we're splitmany different ways in our
attention and we're distractedin many ways.
But what if one of the biggestdistractions I find are people
who have been avoidingconversations?
And it's such an energy drainbut most of us have tolerated it
so long.
(11:23):
We don't understand what thatdrain really is.
My friend, dan Mormon, saidit's like barnacles on a ship A
couple don't matter, but all ofa sudden you look at a ship
that's been out there a while.
It has tons of barnacles.
It needs some time to shavethose off and then you can
really move if you have thatability.
Dr. William Attaway (11:44):
That's really good.
I think of so manyrelationships of clients that
I've worked with and even in myown journey that I think, wow,
that was kind of beyond repair.
And when I saw your book andhow you describe it as helping
people repair relationships theyonce thought were beyond repair
, I thought, oh, this is goingto be a good read.
(12:06):
Can you talk a little bit aboutthe book and why you wrote it
and what you've seen so far, aspeople have begun to read and
apply it?
Greg Stephens (12:15):
Yeah, um, and after teaching Crucial
Conversations.
When I first started teachingCrucial Conversations, it wasn't
even called CrucialConversations.
They hadn't written a book yet.
I was working and I took it.
It was called Path to Dialogue.
Then it became Dialogue Smarts.
I took it when it was Path toDialogue and before they wrote
the book and I used it and itstarted changing everything.
(12:37):
So I worked, did a train thetrainer, became a trainer in it,
and as I started training, Ithought I want to be the type of
leader that practices what Iteach and I thought how can I
show my participants that I'vereally done this, rather than
speaking from theory?
All that's really good, but Iwanted to have an experience.
(12:59):
So I had a crazy idea.
I like to play games in my lifewith myself, and so I said
let's go clean up all your pastrelationships that are muddy.
Well, if I was walking down ahall and I saw someone about to
(13:21):
walk toward me and I wouldrather take a different hallway
to get to my office, that was arelationship I needed to clean
up.
I wanted to be able to lookeveryone in the eye with
confidence and know that I'vedone my part, and I had a list
(13:42):
of 36 different people and ittook me nearly two and a half
years and some of thoseconversations were one and done
and one person I had to go backto seven different times.
So there's no perfection in whatwe're talking about.
And some people say, well, areyou good friends of those people
?
Well, some of thoserelationships were renewed,
still friends today, others justcompleted.
(14:03):
That's another thing.
Sometimes completion doesn'tmean you don't see another
person yet, there's just nothingthere.
But some of those people I'venever seen and people say, well,
what was it?
One of the things I've alsofound is, many times, if we want
to clean up a relationship,it's bugging us.
It may not be anything thatother person needs to say.
(14:24):
I never spoke my truth to thatperson in a respectful way.
I didn't come across as my bestand several of the
conversations, william, I justsaid, hey, you probably never
knew this was going on, but Ineeded to say this to get it off
my chest.
This is not about you, this isabout me.
I'm sorry I held this againstyou for this long.
(14:48):
I just needed to get it out.
It was amazing to watch theconnection that happens when
you're honest and respectfulwith someone, because I wasn't
trying to get anything from them.
I was doing this exercise to beable to stand in front of people
with an experience rather thana theory about it, and so in the
(15:09):
book I talk about some of thosestories, some of those, and I
begin the book with my mostdifficult story, my relationship
with my father.
But that was my very lastcrucial conversation that I had
on that list of 36.
And I walked people throughother people that I've coached
through the last 25 years aboutthe relationships.
(15:32):
People who walked in and saidthere's no way this will work,
but I'll try it and come out theother side with just something
beautiful.
Also, I'm a professionalmediator and most people think
mediation in terms of lawyersand what you're doing in a
divorce can do that.
But I've focused my mediation onintact teams that need to move
(15:55):
forward or families or familybusinesses that actually need to
clean things up and moveforward, because there's so many
times in these teams we'reholding on to the past and I use
quotes in my master teamprograms each week.
A new one, and one that came uprecently, was don't trip over
(16:16):
something behind you, and that'swhat most teams are doing
they're tripping over the thingsbehind them in the past.
But what I've also found ismany times we can't let go of
that past until we speak it andcomplete it.
It holds within us and when itholds in something in there,
(16:37):
when you bury something, itdoesn't just stay there, it
actually grows.
When you bury something, itdoesn't just stay there, it
actually grows.
But what we want to do, when Ispeak it, I put it out into
light, where actually everythingthat's negative about it can be
washed away or burned off and Ican actually start with
something new with that that isbeautiful, and I can only
(16:57):
imagine the number of storiesthat you have watched.
Dr. William Attaway (17:01):
That did seem hopeless.
Oh that something new was born.
Greg Stephens (17:04):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I go to a networking programand one of the things they say
is give us a case study ofsomeone you've helped, and every
week I try to have a different,completely different story and
it shows up.
I have two or three storiesevery week that people are
telling me I never thought thiswas doable or this is a real
(17:26):
breakdown right now.
That's one of the things I talkto people in our programs.
We talk about breakdowns andbreakthroughs.
Most of us want a breakthrough,but you have to have a
breakdown always precedes abreakthrough, Always and you do
not get to have a breakthroughuntil there's conflict.
(17:47):
So when you start to seeconflict, I see it differently
now.
I used to run from conflict.
I'll be honest, William.
My initial reaction is I don'twant to do that.
But now I'm looking on theother side.
Rather than looking at theconflict, I'm looking at the
result.
I can get through this conflict.
(18:08):
That's where my breakthroughlives, and Marcus Aurelius said
the obstacle becomes the way.
That's it.
But most of us are beatingaround the bush.
We're avoiding that conflict.
When you avoid it, it stayswith you.
There's another quote I haveMost of us are beating around
the bush.
We're avoiding that conflict.
When you avoid it, it stayswith you.
There's another quote I havePain is inevitable, Suffering is
(18:32):
optional, so you're going tohave the pain.
Most people put theseconversations off, for you know,
oh, I want to put it off.
They put it out.
Let's say you put it off amonth.
Well, what you've just tradedis probably 15 to 20 minutes of
uncomfortableness for a month ofbeing uncomfortable.
(18:53):
And guess what?
You still have to have that 15to 20 minutes of
uncomfortableness.
It's going to happen.
I'd rather do it now, but mostof us don't understand emotional
accounting.
That's what I call it.
If you looked at a spreadsheet,I can have it now or have it in
a month.
What's it going to?
This is an investment now,because guess what If I have it
now, that next month my mind isopen for creativity, for
(19:17):
connection, for healing, for allof that?
If I put it off, it gets evenmore rotten.
It's more difficult to have ita month later.
But most people don't do itbecause they don't know how,
Because all the rah-rah in theworld oh go, do this If you
don't know how, you're probablygoing to blunder it up at least
(19:38):
50% of the time.
And with relationships.
We don't want to do that.
Dr. William Attaway (19:43):
Well, the advantage of engaging someone
like you is that they can take ashortcut.
They can go farther and getthere faster.
Yeah, that's it, because you'vewalked so many people through
this that you can help them tonavigate those waters.
You know, we often say thatgrowth only happens on the other
side of change.
Right, but we resist change.
(20:04):
We want growth, but we resistchange.
The same thing is true withconflict, and I love the way you
phrase that.
I love emotional accounting.
What a great concept.
I think that's something thatour listeners are going to
really resonate with and I hopethat's going to cause some
reflection.
It certainly will with me.
Greg Stephens (20:22):
Well, it's interesting.
I have a gentleman in one of myclasses.
He said, greg, something Inever imagined.
He said I'm having all theseconversations I've been putting
off and he said what I found isthere's money on the other side
of them in business.
He said every time I've dealtwith them it's created a
relationship where it's actuallycreating more abundance and
(20:45):
it's just it's overflowing forhim now.
Because when you get throughthat, you know if you're talking
thinking business.
Put a dollar sign on it.
I had a gentleman who's head ofa large plant and when he first
came to me of a large plant, andwhen he first came to me great
(21:07):
guy, I could just tell and itwas interesting.
I asked him a couple ofquestions and I could tell he
was really good at what he did.
But the people in his plantsaid, oh, he's a tyrant and just
couldn't stand him.
And the CEO, who actually andthis gentleman was the head of
the plant, the CEO had me workwith him and he came back and
(21:27):
said I talked with him.
I said, well, tell me aboutyour worst boss ever.
And he said, oh, he was atyrant and everything.
And I said, well, tell me aboutyour best boss.
He said oh, he's this.
I said good news is you're likeyour best boss, thanks.
And the good news is you'relike your best boss, thanks.
And bad news is you're likeyour worst boss.
What do you mean?
(21:47):
No, I'm not.
Yeah, you are.
And he said here's the wordsthat were talked to me about
before we came in that peoplebelieve you're a tyrant.
They use that exact word.
He was shocked and I said let'stalk about this and one of the
things we talked about whatrespect looks like to him.
And respect look like if youdon't speak up and speak your
(22:10):
mind, that feels disrespectful.
Okay, but how many people wantto speak their mind to their
boss?
They're fearful to.
And so each time he was blindto how he came across, because
if you feel like you're beingdisrespected, your behavior
shows up a different way.
(22:32):
You raise your voice and youdon't see, you roll your eyes.
You do a lot of differentthings you don't mean to do
because you feel disrespected.
But what if you startedchanging all of that?
And it was interesting becausein the program you go and have
different conversations.
People at first they'rehesitant, it feels awkward, they
(22:53):
don't know how, but by the endthey're just it's like anything
when you first try somethingyou've never done before.
It's awkward.
But it was interesting becausetheir plant had a breakdown
while he was actually at adifferent area of the world and
he said he came to the nextmaster team.
(23:14):
He said you're not going tobelieve what happened.
I said what's that?
He said oh my gosh.
He said the two guys that havebeen my biggest naysayers.
I depend on them, but theyfight with each other.
They fight with me, he said,but over the last four months
things have been changing sincewe talked.
He said this breakdown probablyshould have closed the plant for
a couple of days.
(23:34):
He said it ended up closing fora couple of hours because these
guys jumped into action, workedtogether, did everything they
needed to and then reported itto me.
I didn't even need to worryabout it.
He said it saved us severalmillion dollars.
Just that one thing.
He said I'm so proud of them.
(23:54):
They've really changed.
And I said you know why?
He said well, I've been havingconversations with them.
I said it's not theconversations, it's because
their leader.
You have changed.
That's right.
And it was interesting becausethe director of HR, when we came
in to have the meeting, thefinal meeting with the CEO, him
(24:16):
and the director of HR.
She was the biggest worrier andI knew her well and she's a
straight shooter.
She's a kind person and she satthere and she didn't say
anything the whole meeting.
And then the CEO said well,I've seen a lot of change.
This has been really good.
And I said well, what do youthink?
(24:37):
And she looked at me.
She goes.
I have to say I didn't knowchange could happen this fast In
all my years.
She said you've just workedwith one person Six months ago,
when you walked in that plant,no one wanted to be there.
Now the entire culture haschanged.
And she said I had I've neverseen this before.
(25:02):
She said we've done all types.
But here's the thing he was atrue leader.
He didn't like how he cameacross and it's interesting
because this week I just got anemail from him.
I stopped working about fourmonths ago.
I just got an email that saidthings are going great.
I just want to check in.
Thanks so much, but he knowshow to do it.
(25:22):
That's my goal.
I don't keep people for Ibelieve people always need
coaching, but my specialty Ijust need them for six months.
Dr. William Attaway (25:32):
Wow, yeah, that's so good man.
Yeah, let's talk about you fora minute.
You have to lead at a higherlevel today than you did five
years ago.
Yeah, and that same thing isgoing to be true five years from
now.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
How do you level?
Greg Stephens (25:56):
up with the new leadership skills that your
clients, your team, yourbusiness are going to need you
to have in the years to come.
Well, I'm constantly.
First thing, I'm constantlyreading.
I've always said readers,leaders are readers.
I'm constantly reading, and notemails and stuff.
I have to read a lot of thosemore than I care.
I read all the time.
What books have you dove into?
And that's another thing.
I use my time as best I can.
(26:19):
So now I listen to auto.
I have an audible account.
I listen to books constantly andI try to apply what I've
learned.
That's the biggest thing.
It's not just the knowledge,it's the application, because if
I'm coaching, I need to be ableto see how difficult this is.
When I'm asking people in myprograms, I give them exercises.
(26:40):
I've done these exercises formany years.
Guess what I do it with them.
Still, that's good.
I get my boots on the ground.
I've got to be there.
I try to skill up in differentareas.
I mean, before COVID I'dlearned to be, I'd become
certified to train virtually,but then COVID and I didn't do
(27:01):
much, but I'd done some.
But then COVID hit and I gotreally good because, in essence,
everything went to virtual.
I had to learn.
I learned to take on things new.
I always thought why do apodcast?
Well, I think there's apositive message.
You know, podcasting, speakingin front of groups, are very
(27:23):
different than training orcoaching someone.
One of the things I constantlyask leaders to do what are you
trying new for yourself?
Not just how are you leadingthere?
I think everything you're doinghas a component of leadership,
because you feel awkward whenyou're doing something new at
first.
(27:43):
You need to never forget thatwhen you're leading people, you
need to understand.
We're here to guide them, and Iteach a mentoring program and
most people think, oh, here'sthe mentor and here's the mentee
, and the idea is that a menteeshould always be the one
generating the relationship.
I disagree.
(28:04):
I think it's the mentor.
How difficult is it?
Because the mentee feels likethey're intruding or something
like that, and so I consider amentorship is I've just gone
through the woods with a macheteand I've cleared the way.
My goal it was small way mygoal is to get that next person
not who's coming behind me up towork with me, maybe ahead of me
(28:28):
, whatever that may be.
I'd love for them to surpass me, but get them to when they get
up there to do the same.
All of a sudden, rather thanjust having a small pathway,
we've got an eight-lane highwaybecause we have so many people
going through.
That that's leadership ishanding it down, having
compassion, teaching others,constantly teaching, because
(28:52):
you're constantly learning.
Dr. William Attaway (28:55):
So good.
I could not possibly agree more.
I love that answer.
So in the reading that you doand the books that you've read
through, is there any that standout in your mind?
One, that's just man.
This one's made a difference inmy journey that you'd recommend
to the leaders who arelistening.
Greg Stephens (29:14):
Yeah, I'm going to give you about five, okay.
Dr. William Attaway (29:17):
Go for it, cause.
Greg Stephens (29:18):
I, I, I think, and they're all varied.
Okay, they're all variedbecause I believe you're a whole
person.
You need to look.
One of my staples is a bookcalled awareness by Anthony
DeMello, and he passed away in1985.
The book reads a littledifferent because it's re.
It was written after he passedaway from his lectures, but if
(29:40):
you listen to it on Audible, Iencourage people to do that
because Audible are the actuallectures that they pulled it
from, so you get to hear him dothat.
But he passed away in 1985.
His teachings are stillrelevant.
The Four Agreements by DonMiguel Ruiz is a great
foundational book, simple to getpeople engaged.
(30:01):
And here's one out of leftfield.
Most people wouldn't think forleadership, but I love Matthew
McConaughey and his bookGreenlights is about his life
and if you get a chance, don'tread it, listen to it, because
it's like having MatthewMcConaughey at dinner.
It's like having MatthewMcConaughey at dinner, but he
talks about the positive message, what to do, all the different
(30:21):
things that come into your life,and he does it with great
stories.
So people who aren't typicallywant to read a book like that.
They probably listen to aMatthew McConaughey book that
entertains, and edutainment iswhat I would call it Nice.
I like it.
And another book is the 15Commitments of Conscious
(30:41):
Leadership.
When I read that book I waslike, oh my gosh, this is
amazing.
You know, it put everythingI've been teaching the last 25
years into one book and I was sohappy I didn't have to write it
book.
(31:02):
So happy I didn't have to writeit.
So I have all my.
That's one of the first books.
When I'm teaching my classes,of course, I asked them to read
my book on relationships, butit's one of the books also, of
course, crucial Conversations,crucial Accountability, crucial
Influence.
They teach you how to havethese conversations and how to
influence.
So those are kind of some coreconversational books that I have
(31:23):
and I also a new book that Ithink is important.
My friend, anidio Mahal, wrote abook Do you Take your Own
Advice, and all it is.
And all it is.
(31:44):
It's 30 or 31 little snippetsabout people he met and he got.
He got.
He lays out their advice.
Then on the next page he hastwo questions for you to fill in
and you write your own advicethat you would.
He asked the question whatwould you say to yourself for
this?
You write it through.
Well, I did that.
I took one a day.
Take me less than five minutesa day.
At the end of it I took it on atrip with me and I pulled it
(32:05):
out and I was talking to afriend.
I go and I read it to him.
It's like it was my book onadvice and my friend was like,
just writing, oh, this isexcellent.
I was like just writing, oh,this is excellent.
I was like, wow, his bookbecame my book.
So if you want to find out yourwisdom because just writing it
(32:25):
I didn't.
I never looked back at it tillweeks later when I pulled it out
, but it becomes your book, youradvice, and you'll be amazed at
the wisdom that you have foryourself because you have your
answers.
No one else does.
Dr. William Attaway (32:39):
Greg, I could talk to you for another
hour, I swear.
Like every time we talk I learnsomething, and this has been no
exception, and I'm sure ourlisteners feel the same.
I'm so grateful for youinvesting the time to be here
today and share so freely withour listeners.
I know they're gonna wanna stayconnected to you and continue
to learn more from you and aboutwhat you do.
(32:59):
What's the best way for them todo that?
Greg Stephens (33:02):
Yeah, just go to my website,
alignment-resourcescom, and myemail is the same greg at
alignment-resourcescom, or mybusiness partner, noah Bouton.
Noah at alignment-resourcescom,don't forget that dash in the
middle.
That's probably the best.
We have podcasts and some otherthings as well, and I'm
(33:23):
actually launching a new podcastthis summer called A Spiritual
Peace, and it's going to be allmy guests from my Shot of
Inspiration podcast.
It's going to be theirspiritual message to the world
and it's really interestingbecause everyone has so many
different ones.
It's not based in any typicalreligion or spiritual concept.
(33:45):
It's for each individual toshare that.
So those are some of the thingsI'm trying to do.
Dr. William Attaway (33:52):
If, listeners, you have not gotten
Greg's book yet, during thecourse of this conversation,
there's going to be a link inthe show notes for you to do
that.
I'm going to highly encouragethis, because restoring
impossible relationships, theseconversations that we need to
have in order to be able to moveforward and not trip over our
past, love that.
(34:13):
This is something that we allneed to work on and develop and
then to begin to share withother people.
Greg, thank you for writingthis and for sharing this today.
Greg Stephens (34:22):
William, thank you for having me on the show
and the listeners.
Thank you so much.
Keep listening, please.
I'm excited today to have Greg Stevens on
the podcast.
Greg holds a degree from BaylorUniversity and is a
best-selling author, keynotespeaker, executive coach,
communication consultant,professional mediator, master
trainer, certified behavioralanalyst and two-time podcaster.
His new book Build New Bridgesthe Art of Restoring Impossible
(00:24):
Relationships has helped peoplearound the world to repair
relationships they once thoughtwere beyond repair.
Greg has over 28 years ofpractical business experience
and has worked with numerousFortune 500 companies and
national organizations acrossevery industry and service
category.
Greg, I'm so glad you're here.
(00:46):
Thanks for being on the show.
Intro (00:54):
William, thanks so much for having me.
It's a real honor to be here.
I appreciate it.
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help
leaders intentionally grow andthrive.
Here is your host, author andleadership and executive coach,
Dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:12):
I would love to start, Greg, with you
sharing some of your story withour listeners, particularly
around your journey anddevelopment as a leader.
How'd this all get started?
Greg Stephens (01:26):
as a leader.
How'd this all get started?
That's a great question.
I never looked to do what I'mdoing today Teaching leadership
programs, even being anexecutive coach none of that was
in my sights as I was growingup.
I wanted to be in sales.
I enjoyed sales.
I didn't really know when Istarted Baylor what I wanted to
do, but I ended up sellingcemetery property door to door
(01:50):
in Houston, texas, to put myselfthrough Baylor because I was on
my own at 17.
And I learned in eight weeks.
I actually paid for an entireyear at Baylor doing that, oh my
goodness.
And I learned to get cussed outevery day.
But I also.
(02:11):
When I finished that summer Iwas really bulletproof in a lot
of ways.
But I never expected to bedoing this work, one of the
things my company would do.
I worked for a pharmaceuticalcompany for 13 years and when I
started working for them, theywould pay for me to take any
type of courses, traditional andnon-traditional.
(02:33):
So I thought I've just putmyself through four years of
college where I paid for it, I'mgoing to get something back.
So for 12 of those 13 years Itook classes in sociology,
psychology, human development,human behavior, human potential,
traditional, non-traditionalanything I could do and I
(02:56):
engaged with a course called theForum, with Landmark Forum,
with a group called LandmarkEducation, and that really
changed my life and it put me ona trajectory of having
integrity in my life, takingresponsibility where I hadn't,
and I ended up running into alife coach that I ended up
(03:19):
hiring and I was actuallyoutgrowing my business and I was
looking at an acting career andI'm inside and had an agent,
had done some plays and thingshere in Austin.
And one day with my life coach,I said I love it when I'm on
stage, I love that moment.
But I said the rest of itdoesn't call to me like I
(03:41):
thought it would.
But one of the things I foundis when you start shooting for a
target around doing somethingdifferent, the right thing shows
up for you and it doesn'thappen sitting on the couch
wishing or wishing somethingwould change.
You've got to get out and dosomething.
And me getting out and findingan acting coach, finding an
(04:06):
agent, getting out doing playsand ads and things like that
actually propelled me intofinding something.
And I came to my life coach.
I just said this just doesn'tcall to me.
He said have you ever thoughtabout doing what I do coaching
and training and he taught aman-woman relationship class and
I loved it and I said, no, I'venever thought about doing this.
(04:28):
And he said, well, think aboutit.
About a week later I came backI said, well, what should I do?
And he said, well, there's thisnew thing you can take online.
But he said, I believe in doinga true apprenticeship.
So I ended up working for abouttwo, two and a half years
actually coaching for free,producing courses for him.
(04:48):
He was teaching me inleadership and I did free
coaching and he helped andcoached me along the way.
And I did all that whilekeeping my own business and not
keeping my business, butactually working for the
pharmaceutical company.
So I was doing all of this onthe side.
So you can imagine I was reallybusy.
And then, about two and a halfyears later, I went out on my
(05:11):
own and just jumped off and Ifound leadership is really to be
a leader, you need followers.
That's the true definition.
If you have followers, you're aleader and you can lead from
anywhere you are.
But I learned to look for myvision and go where I needed to
go, and people just startedshowing up.
(05:33):
Of course, I went out and beatthe bushes trying to get people
in my courses and do thosethings.
But I found the most powerfulthing is that the best clients
for me show up, the people whoreally need leadership skills.
Show up, the people who and Ispecialize in an area where I
teach people how to have thehardest conversations of their
(05:54):
life and I teach them in asix-month period to do that for
the rest of their life so manypeople will take courses.
So many people will takecourses, and I taught Crucial
Conversations as a mastertrainer, as a hired consultant
with Crucial Learning for 24years, taught that class
(06:15):
everywhere.
It's one of the best trainingclasses anyone could ever take.
But what I found was leaderswere coming out saying that was
the best class and then twomonths later they're not using
it.
Well, you have to have anapplication and it takes time.
You don't bake a lasagna.
You don't bake lasagna in fiveminutes.
It takes time to do that.
(06:35):
And so now what I'm doing.
After I wrote my book, I steppedout on my own to actually help
people.
I stepped out on my own toactually help people.
I found it's about a 20-weekprocess.
I've created a process usingdifferent materials, but in 20
weeks I teach people how to havethe conversations they
(06:56):
continually typically avoid orhandle poorly, and I teach them
in 20 weeks how to lean intothem, how to actually apply the
skills, how to manage theiremotions, how to address the
emotions of others, how tocreate psychological safety in
the moment, how to listenproperly, how to under, actually
(07:19):
investigate and find theunderlying issues when
accountability is not there, howto do all that and build the
relationship at the same time.
So it takes time to do that andwe don't throw people in on the
deep end at first.
We actually walk them out thereand the process is really
(07:39):
amazing to watch people havebreakthroughs about
self-awareness and how they'vebeen showing up in these
conversations.
Typically, leaders come in andthey think they do pretty well
at these because they've risento a certain level and they've
done certain things really well.
But what we've found theseskills that I'm teaching most
(08:00):
people don't have.
Less than 2% of people I runinto are really good at this.
Dr. William Attaway (08:06):
I remember about 25 years ago hearing
Joseph Grenny talk about CrucialConversations.
Greg Stephens (08:11):
He is awesome.
Dr. William Attaway (08:12):
Yeah, my goodness, what a powerful thing
that was for me to hear somebodyaddress that, and I'll tell you
so many of the people who cometo me and hire me to help them.
It's around having difficultconversations.
It's around learning this.
When I met you and heard whatyou're doing and the book that
(08:33):
you've written, I was like okay,this is a phenomenal resource.
Here's a six-month program thatcan help people seriously dive
deep on this.
This is absolutely.
This is something I think weshould be teaching in
kindergarten, like how to havedifficult conversations, because
it will serve you in every areaof your life for the rest of
your life.
(08:53):
Yet I find people in theirforties, fifties and beyond who
have never learned this skill.
Greg Stephens (09:00):
Absolutely, and that's one of the reasons we've
just started a program, aleadership program for, and
we're marketing toward theparents or grandparents of kids
who are 21 to 28 years old.
Maybe they're a senior incollege or maybe doing a gap
year, or maybe they're early onthe first one to five years in
their career, and what we'reteaching them now in the
(09:33):
leadership program are otherleadership pieces, but also
these conversational pieces, toactually become better at having
them.
Because what we typically findis we're going to be teaching
the next generation of leaderswhat this generation of leaders
are having problems with and wewant to make sure we prepare
them.
And you know I love workingwith all my clients but, as you
know, there's a different energythat comes with different
levels of leadership.
(09:54):
You have early leaders,emerging leaders.
There is a openness to reallytry new things and typically,
when I'm working with executives, I'm working with those
executives who are lifelongleaders, those who typically
aren't, but there's a lot ofthem.
They aren't coachable and Iknow how to do it.
(10:18):
None of us does it alone.
As John Maxwell says, we needothers to help lift us up and
early on, we feel like that willbe helpful to teach leaders
early on to reach out, to havethese conversations, to lean in.
I believe Nitro boosts theircareer and their life because
(10:39):
the side effect is alsointeresting, because they start
having conversations with theirparents they've never had, wow
yeah, and so it really helpsacross their entire life.
Because we think wecompartmentalize our life but we
bring our home life to work andour work life home and you're a
(11:02):
whole person and we're splitmany different ways in our
attention and we're distractedin many ways.
But what if one of the biggestdistractions I find are people
who have been avoidingconversations?
And it's such an energy drainbut most of us have tolerated it
so long.
(11:23):
We don't understand what thatdrain really is.
My friend, dan Mormon, saidit's like barnacles on a ship A
couple don't matter, but all ofa sudden you look at a ship
that's been out there a while.
It has tons of barnacles.
It needs some time to shavethose off and then you can
really move if you have thatability.
Dr. William Attaway (11:44):
That's really good.
I think of so manyrelationships of clients that
I've worked with and even in myown journey that I think, wow,
that was kind of beyond repair.
And when I saw your book andhow you describe it as helping
people repair relationships theyonce thought were beyond repair
, I thought, oh, this is goingto be a good read.
(12:06):
Can you talk a little bit aboutthe book and why you wrote it
and what you've seen so far, aspeople have begun to read and
apply it?
Greg Stephens (12:15):
Yeah, um, and after teaching Crucial
Conversations.
When I first started teachingCrucial Conversations, it wasn't
even called CrucialConversations.
They hadn't written a book yet.
I was working and I took it.
It was called Path to Dialogue.
Then it became Dialogue Smarts.
I took it when it was Path toDialogue and before they wrote
the book and I used it and itstarted changing everything.
(12:37):
So I worked, did a train thetrainer, became a trainer in it,
and as I started training, Ithought I want to be the type of
leader that practices what Iteach and I thought how can I
show my participants that I'vereally done this, rather than
speaking from theory?
All that's really good, but Iwanted to have an experience.
(12:59):
So I had a crazy idea.
I like to play games in my lifewith myself, and so I said
let's go clean up all your pastrelationships that are muddy.
Well, if I was walking down ahall and I saw someone about to
(13:21):
walk toward me and I wouldrather take a different hallway
to get to my office, that was arelationship I needed to clean
up.
I wanted to be able to lookeveryone in the eye with
confidence and know that I'vedone my part, and I had a list
(13:42):
of 36 different people and ittook me nearly two and a half
years and some of thoseconversations were one and done
and one person I had to go backto seven different times.
So there's no perfection in whatwe're talking about.
And some people say, well, areyou good friends of those people
?
Well, some of thoserelationships were renewed,
still friends today, others justcompleted.
(14:03):
That's another thing.
Sometimes completion doesn'tmean you don't see another
person yet, there's just nothingthere.
But some of those people I'venever seen and people say, well,
what was it?
One of the things I've alsofound is, many times, if we want
to clean up a relationship,it's bugging us.
It may not be anything thatother person needs to say.
(14:24):
I never spoke my truth to thatperson in a respectful way.
I didn't come across as my bestand several of the
conversations, william, I justsaid, hey, you probably never
knew this was going on, but Ineeded to say this to get it off
my chest.
This is not about you, this isabout me.
I'm sorry I held this againstyou for this long.
(14:48):
I just needed to get it out.
It was amazing to watch theconnection that happens when
you're honest and respectfulwith someone, because I wasn't
trying to get anything from them.
I was doing this exercise to beable to stand in front of people
with an experience rather thana theory about it, and so in the
(15:09):
book I talk about some of thosestories, some of those, and I
begin the book with my mostdifficult story, my relationship
with my father.
But that was my very lastcrucial conversation that I had
on that list of 36.
And I walked people throughother people that I've coached
through the last 25 years aboutthe relationships.
(15:32):
People who walked in and saidthere's no way this will work,
but I'll try it and come out theother side with just something
beautiful.
Also, I'm a professionalmediator and most people think
mediation in terms of lawyersand what you're doing in a
divorce can do that.
But I've focused my mediation onintact teams that need to move
(15:55):
forward or families or familybusinesses that actually need to
clean things up and moveforward, because there's so many
times in these teams we'reholding on to the past and I use
quotes in my master teamprograms each week.
A new one, and one that came uprecently, was don't trip over
(16:16):
something behind you, and that'swhat most teams are doing
they're tripping over the thingsbehind them in the past.
But what I've also found ismany times we can't let go of
that past until we speak it andcomplete it.
It holds within us and when itholds in something in there,
(16:37):
when you bury something, itdoesn't just stay there, it
actually grows.
When you bury something, itdoesn't just stay there, it
actually grows.
But what we want to do, when Ispeak it, I put it out into
light, where actually everythingthat's negative about it can be
washed away or burned off and Ican actually start with
something new with that that isbeautiful, and I can only
(16:57):
imagine the number of storiesthat you have watched.
Dr. William Attaway (17:01):
That did seem hopeless.
Oh that something new was born.
Greg Stephens (17:04):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I go to a networking programand one of the things they say
is give us a case study ofsomeone you've helped, and every
week I try to have a different,completely different story and
it shows up.
I have two or three storiesevery week that people are
telling me I never thought thiswas doable or this is a real
(17:26):
breakdown right now.
That's one of the things I talkto people in our programs.
We talk about breakdowns andbreakthroughs.
Most of us want a breakthrough,but you have to have a
breakdown always precedes abreakthrough, Always and you do
not get to have a breakthroughuntil there's conflict.
(17:47):
So when you start to seeconflict, I see it differently
now.
I used to run from conflict.
I'll be honest, William.
My initial reaction is I don'twant to do that.
But now I'm looking on theother side.
Rather than looking at theconflict, I'm looking at the
result.
I can get through this conflict.
(18:08):
That's where my breakthroughlives, and Marcus Aurelius said
the obstacle becomes the way.
That's it.
But most of us are beatingaround the bush.
We're avoiding that conflict.
When you avoid it, it stayswith you.
There's another quote I haveMost of us are beating around
the bush.
We're avoiding that conflict.
When you avoid it, it stayswith you.
There's another quote I havePain is inevitable, Suffering is
(18:32):
optional, so you're going tohave the pain.
Most people put theseconversations off, for you know,
oh, I want to put it off.
They put it out.
Let's say you put it off amonth.
Well, what you've just tradedis probably 15 to 20 minutes of
uncomfortableness for a month ofbeing uncomfortable.
(18:53):
And guess what?
You still have to have that 15to 20 minutes of
uncomfortableness.
It's going to happen.
I'd rather do it now, but mostof us don't understand emotional
accounting.
That's what I call it.
If you looked at a spreadsheet,I can have it now or have it in
a month.
What's it going to?
This is an investment now,because guess what If I have it
now, that next month my mind isopen for creativity, for
(19:17):
connection, for healing, for allof that?
If I put it off, it gets evenmore rotten.
It's more difficult to have ita month later.
But most people don't do itbecause they don't know how,
Because all the rah-rah in theworld oh go, do this If you
don't know how, you're probablygoing to blunder it up at least
(19:38):
50% of the time.
And with relationships.
We don't want to do that.
Dr. William Attaway (19:43):
Well, the advantage of engaging someone
like you is that they can take ashortcut.
They can go farther and getthere faster.
Yeah, that's it, because you'vewalked so many people through
this that you can help them tonavigate those waters.
You know, we often say thatgrowth only happens on the other
side of change.
Right, but we resist change.
(20:04):
We want growth, but we resistchange.
The same thing is true withconflict, and I love the way you
phrase that.
I love emotional accounting.
What a great concept.
I think that's something thatour listeners are going to
really resonate with and I hopethat's going to cause some
reflection.
It certainly will with me.
Greg Stephens (20:22):
Well, it's interesting.
I have a gentleman in one of myclasses.
He said, greg, something Inever imagined.
He said I'm having all theseconversations I've been putting
off and he said what I found isthere's money on the other side
of them in business.
He said every time I've dealtwith them it's created a
relationship where it's actuallycreating more abundance and
(20:45):
it's just it's overflowing forhim now.
Because when you get throughthat, you know if you're talking
thinking business.
Put a dollar sign on it.
I had a gentleman who's head ofa large plant and when he first
came to me of a large plant, andwhen he first came to me great
(21:07):
guy, I could just tell and itwas interesting.
I asked him a couple ofquestions and I could tell he
was really good at what he did.
But the people in his plantsaid, oh, he's a tyrant and just
couldn't stand him.
And the CEO, who actually andthis gentleman was the head of
the plant, the CEO had me workwith him and he came back and
(21:27):
said I talked with him.
I said, well, tell me aboutyour worst boss ever.
And he said, oh, he was atyrant and everything.
And I said, well, tell me aboutyour best boss.
He said oh, he's this.
I said good news is you're likeyour best boss, thanks.
And the good news is you'relike your best boss, thanks.
And bad news is you're likeyour worst boss.
What do you mean?
(21:47):
No, I'm not.
Yeah, you are.
And he said here's the wordsthat were talked to me about
before we came in that peoplebelieve you're a tyrant.
They use that exact word.
He was shocked and I said let'stalk about this and one of the
things we talked about whatrespect looks like to him.
And respect look like if youdon't speak up and speak your
(22:10):
mind, that feels disrespectful.
Okay, but how many people wantto speak their mind to their
boss?
They're fearful to.
And so each time he was blindto how he came across, because
if you feel like you're beingdisrespected, your behavior
shows up a different way.
(22:32):
You raise your voice and youdon't see, you roll your eyes.
You do a lot of differentthings you don't mean to do
because you feel disrespected.
But what if you startedchanging all of that?
And it was interesting becausein the program you go and have
different conversations.
People at first they'rehesitant, it feels awkward, they
(22:53):
don't know how, but by the endthey're just it's like anything
when you first try somethingyou've never done before.
It's awkward.
But it was interesting becausetheir plant had a breakdown
while he was actually at adifferent area of the world and
he said he came to the nextmaster team.
(23:14):
He said you're not going tobelieve what happened.
I said what's that?
He said oh my gosh.
He said the two guys that havebeen my biggest naysayers.
I depend on them, but theyfight with each other.
They fight with me, he said,but over the last four months
things have been changing sincewe talked.
He said this breakdown probablyshould have closed the plant for
a couple of days.
(23:34):
He said it ended up closing fora couple of hours because these
guys jumped into action, workedtogether, did everything they
needed to and then reported itto me.
I didn't even need to worryabout it.
He said it saved us severalmillion dollars.
Just that one thing.
He said I'm so proud of them.
(23:54):
They've really changed.
And I said you know why?
He said well, I've been havingconversations with them.
I said it's not theconversations, it's because
their leader.
You have changed.
That's right.
And it was interesting becausethe director of HR, when we came
in to have the meeting, thefinal meeting with the CEO, him
(24:16):
and the director of HR.
She was the biggest worrier andI knew her well and she's a
straight shooter.
She's a kind person and she satthere and she didn't say
anything the whole meeting.
And then the CEO said well,I've seen a lot of change.
This has been really good.
And I said well, what do youthink?
(24:37):
And she looked at me.
She goes.
I have to say I didn't knowchange could happen this fast In
all my years.
She said you've just workedwith one person Six months ago,
when you walked in that plant,no one wanted to be there.
Now the entire culture haschanged.
And she said I had I've neverseen this before.
(25:02):
She said we've done all types.
But here's the thing he was atrue leader.
He didn't like how he cameacross and it's interesting
because this week I just got anemail from him.
I stopped working about fourmonths ago.
I just got an email that saidthings are going great.
I just want to check in.
Thanks so much, but he knowshow to do it.
(25:22):
That's my goal.
I don't keep people for Ibelieve people always need
coaching, but my specialty Ijust need them for six months.
Dr. William Attaway (25:32):
Wow, yeah, that's so good man.
Yeah, let's talk about you fora minute.
You have to lead at a higherlevel today than you did five
years ago.
Yeah, and that same thing isgoing to be true five years from
now.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
How do you level?
Greg Stephens (25:56):
up with the new leadership skills that your
clients, your team, yourbusiness are going to need you
to have in the years to come.
Well, I'm constantly.
First thing, I'm constantlyreading.
I've always said readers,leaders are readers.
I'm constantly reading, and notemails and stuff.
I have to read a lot of thosemore than I care.
I read all the time.
What books have you dove into?
And that's another thing.
I use my time as best I can.
(26:19):
So now I listen to auto.
I have an audible account.
I listen to books constantly andI try to apply what I've
learned.
That's the biggest thing.
It's not just the knowledge,it's the application, because if
I'm coaching, I need to be ableto see how difficult this is.
When I'm asking people in myprograms, I give them exercises.
(26:40):
I've done these exercises formany years.
Guess what I do it with them.
Still, that's good.
I get my boots on the ground.
I've got to be there.
I try to skill up in differentareas.
I mean, before COVID I'dlearned to be, I'd become
certified to train virtually,but then COVID and I didn't do
(27:01):
much, but I'd done some.
But then COVID hit and I gotreally good because, in essence,
everything went to virtual.
I had to learn.
I learned to take on things new.
I always thought why do apodcast?
Well, I think there's apositive message.
You know, podcasting, speakingin front of groups, are very
(27:23):
different than training orcoaching someone.
One of the things I constantlyask leaders to do what are you
trying new for yourself?
Not just how are you leadingthere?
I think everything you're doinghas a component of leadership,
because you feel awkward whenyou're doing something new at
first.
(27:43):
You need to never forget thatwhen you're leading people, you
need to understand.
We're here to guide them, and Iteach a mentoring program and
most people think, oh, here'sthe mentor and here's the mentee
, and the idea is that a menteeshould always be the one
generating the relationship.
I disagree.
(28:04):
I think it's the mentor.
How difficult is it?
Because the mentee feels likethey're intruding or something
like that, and so I consider amentorship is I've just gone
through the woods with a macheteand I've cleared the way.
My goal it was small way mygoal is to get that next person
not who's coming behind me up towork with me, maybe ahead of me
(28:28):
, whatever that may be.
I'd love for them to surpass me, but get them to when they get
up there to do the same.
All of a sudden, rather thanjust having a small pathway,
we've got an eight-lane highwaybecause we have so many people
going through.
That that's leadership ishanding it down, having
compassion, teaching others,constantly teaching, because
(28:52):
you're constantly learning.
Dr. William Attaway (28:55):
So good.
I could not possibly agree more.
I love that answer.
So in the reading that you doand the books that you've read
through, is there any that standout in your mind?
One, that's just man.
This one's made a difference inmy journey that you'd recommend
to the leaders who arelistening.
Greg Stephens (29:14):
Yeah, I'm going to give you about five, okay.
Dr. William Attaway (29:17):
Go for it, cause.
Greg Stephens (29:18):
I, I, I think, and they're all varied.
Okay, they're all variedbecause I believe you're a whole
person.
You need to look.
One of my staples is a bookcalled awareness by Anthony
DeMello, and he passed away in1985.
The book reads a littledifferent because it's re.
It was written after he passedaway from his lectures, but if
(29:40):
you listen to it on Audible, Iencourage people to do that
because Audible are the actuallectures that they pulled it
from, so you get to hear him dothat.
But he passed away in 1985.
His teachings are stillrelevant.
The Four Agreements by DonMiguel Ruiz is a great
foundational book, simple to getpeople engaged.
(30:01):
And here's one out of leftfield.
Most people wouldn't think forleadership, but I love Matthew
McConaughey and his bookGreenlights is about his life
and if you get a chance, don'tread it, listen to it, because
it's like having MatthewMcConaughey at dinner.
It's like having MatthewMcConaughey at dinner, but he
talks about the positive message, what to do, all the different
(30:21):
things that come into your life,and he does it with great
stories.
So people who aren't typicallywant to read a book like that.
They probably listen to aMatthew McConaughey book that
entertains, and edutainment iswhat I would call it Nice.
I like it.
And another book is the 15Commitments of Conscious
(30:41):
Leadership.
When I read that book I waslike, oh my gosh, this is
amazing.
You know, it put everythingI've been teaching the last 25
years into one book and I was sohappy I didn't have to write it
book.
(31:02):
So happy I didn't have to writeit.
So I have all my.
That's one of the first books.
When I'm teaching my classes,of course, I asked them to read
my book on relationships, butit's one of the books also, of
course, crucial Conversations,crucial Accountability, crucial
Influence.
They teach you how to havethese conversations and how to
influence.
So those are kind of some coreconversational books that I have
(31:23):
and I also a new book that Ithink is important.
My friend, anidio Mahal, wrote abook Do you Take your Own
Advice, and all it is.
And all it is.
(31:44):
It's 30 or 31 little snippetsabout people he met and he got.
He got.
He lays out their advice.
Then on the next page he hastwo questions for you to fill in
and you write your own advicethat you would.
He asked the question whatwould you say to yourself for
this?
You write it through.
Well, I did that.
I took one a day.
Take me less than five minutesa day.
At the end of it I took it on atrip with me and I pulled it
(32:05):
out and I was talking to afriend.
I go and I read it to him.
It's like it was my book onadvice and my friend was like,
just writing, oh, this isexcellent.
I was like just writing, oh,this is excellent.
I was like, wow, his bookbecame my book.
So if you want to find out yourwisdom because just writing it
(32:25):
I didn't.
I never looked back at it tillweeks later when I pulled it out
, but it becomes your book, youradvice, and you'll be amazed at
the wisdom that you have foryourself because you have your
answers.
No one else does.
Dr. William Attaway (32:39):
Greg, I could talk to you for another
hour, I swear.
Like every time we talk I learnsomething, and this has been no
exception, and I'm sure ourlisteners feel the same.
I'm so grateful for youinvesting the time to be here
today and share so freely withour listeners.
I know they're gonna wanna stayconnected to you and continue
to learn more from you and aboutwhat you do.
(32:59):
What's the best way for them todo that?
Greg Stephens (33:02):
Yeah, just go to my website,
alignment-resourcescom, and myemail is the same greg at
alignment-resourcescom, or mybusiness partner, noah Bouton.
Noah at alignment-resourcescom,don't forget that dash in the
middle.
That's probably the best.
We have podcasts and some otherthings as well, and I'm
(33:23):
actually launching a new podcastthis summer called A Spiritual
Peace, and it's going to be allmy guests from my Shot of
Inspiration podcast.
It's going to be theirspiritual message to the world
and it's really interestingbecause everyone has so many
different ones.
It's not based in any typicalreligion or spiritual concept.
(33:45):
It's for each individual toshare that.
So those are some of the thingsI'm trying to do.
Dr. William Attaway (33:52):
If, listeners, you have not gotten
Greg's book yet, during thecourse of this conversation,
there's going to be a link inthe show notes for you to do
that.
I'm going to highly encouragethis, because restoring
impossible relationships, theseconversations that we need to
have in order to be able to moveforward and not trip over our
past, love that.
(34:13):
This is something that we allneed to work on and develop and
then to begin to share withother people.
Greg, thank you for writingthis and for sharing this today.
Greg Stephens (34:22):
William, thank you for having me on the show
and the listeners.
Thank you so much.
Keep listening, please.
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