December 2, 2025 • 33 mins
When you’re leading a fast–growing agency, becoming the bottleneck isn’t a character flaw; it’s a sign your systems, team structure, and internal leadership rhythms need to evolve. In this episode, I sit down with Tom McGehee, Marine, corporate leader, consultant, entrepreneur, and co-CEO of the Halftime Institute, to unpack how seasoned leaders break free from overload and step into Leadership for Agency Owners that actually works.
Tom’s journey through special operations command, global consulting, entrepreneurship, and nonprofit leadership offers a rare window into sustainable growth: humility over ego, clarity over chaos, and mission-type orders instead of micromanagement.
If you’re navigating team handoffs, decision bottlenecks, burnout patterns, or the shift from success to significance, Tom’s insights will help you realign your leadership, empower your team, and build the margin your next season requires.
Books Mentioned
- Halftime by Bob Buford
- Resilient by John Eldredge
- Sacred Pace by Terry Looper
You can connect with Tom directly at tom.mcgehee@halftime.org or through halftime.org. He’s also active on LinkedIn and would welcome connecting with anyone this conversation serves.
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
- Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:
Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
- Special Offer:
Get your FREE copy of Catalytic Leadership: 12 Keys to Becoming an Intentional Leader Who Makes a Difference.
Connect with Dr. William Attaway:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. William Attaway (00:00):
I'm so excited today to have Tom McGee
on the podcast.
A Marine, a corporate leader, aconsulting partner, an
entrepreneur, and now co-CEO forthe Halftime Institute.
Tom's journey has been rich andfull.
He served for 12 years in theU.S.
Marines, where he commanded twospecial operations units.
(00:20):
After his service, he was anexecutive with EDS and a partner
with Ernst ⁇ Young LLP.
Now at Halftime, Tom helpsleaders live out their calling.
Tom, I'm so glad you're here.
Man, thanks for being on theshow.
Thank you.
Intro (00:34):
It's a pleasure to be with you.
Welcome to CatalyticLeadership, the podcast designed
to help leaders intentionallygrow and thrive.
Here is your host, author, andleadership and executive coach,
Dr.
William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (00:55):
I'd love to start with you sharing a little
bit of your story with ourlisteners, particularly around
your journey and yourdevelopment as a leader.
How did you get started?
Tom McGehee (01:05):
You know, it's a great question.
Somebody asked me this just theother day.
And I think a lot of myinfluence and leadership came
from time in the Marine Corps.
Two big things that stuck outthat I've always kind of
patterned around.
One is the taking care of thetroops idea, right?
The first thing they yourealize at OCS is if you're the
leader, your men eat before youdo.
(01:26):
It begins to build in you this,you know, that they're more
important than you are.
And that that led me probablyeventually into this whole life
I've had primarily aroundcollaborative work and
collaborative strategy,realizing in my mind, people
support what they help create.
So how do I get them involved?
The other big thing that'sinfluenced me in leadership is
(01:46):
the way the Marines would giveorders.
They move to a thing theycalled mission type orders.
So instead of it being verycommand and control, like you do
this, and then once you've donethat, tell me, and I'll tell
you to do this, and I'll tellyou to go there, and I'll move
things like that.
Like managers who can get somuch information, they're
micromanaging people.
The Marine Corps realized anumber of years ago, with the
(02:08):
chaos on the battlefield today,you can't go at it that way.
So a mission type order saysyou tell a leader, here's the
objective and what I want done.
Here's the resources you haveto do it, here are your
boundaries, now you go figure itout.
And so I've always kind of ledthat way, right?
How can I, and then what thatmeans for me as a leader is
instead of looking at all thedetails on how they're doing it,
(02:31):
I need to just be measuring,did it get done?
If it did, what else do we do?
And if it didn't, what do wehave to do to fix it?
That's kind of been my approachsince I got in the corporate
world and as an entrepreneur andeverything else.
Dr. William Attaway (02:45):
You know, your journey has been has been
an interesting one, you know,after the Marines.
I mean, EDS, Ernst ⁇ Young, Imean, you know, definite
corporate, right?
I mean, you know, corporateleader, uh consulting partner.
Why entrepreneurship?
Tom McGehee (03:01):
Oh, that's a great, uh, great question.
So some would say that the movewhen I made it to EDS was uh
somewhat familiar because it wasthe last stages of Ross Perot
who was hiring a lot of formermilitary people.
I got into EDS just as theoutsourcing market was not only
changing, but EDS was trying tobecome more value-oriented
(03:21):
rather than just deal-orientedwhere they would take over and
outsourcing, right?
Technology was moving wherepeople that you were working
with, companies that they wereengaging with, didn't want
somebody just to run their ITcheaper.
They wanted them to addadditional value.
And of course, all the ERPsystems were coming online and
the MRP said, all that was kindof starting to roll out.
(03:42):
I got into Ermston Youngbecause they were hiring five
people directly in as partnersto start an outsourcing
practice, and I was fortunateenough to be one of those.
And so went directly in aspartner.
I knew I was neitherhardworking enough or smart
enough to ever earn partner if Igot there.
So if you're gonna give it tome, though, I'm gonna take it.
So it was just you know, just areal blessing to jump in like
(04:03):
that.
When I was at uh Ernst ⁇ Young,they had a collaborative center
they called the AcceleratedSolutions Environment.
And it was a nonlinearworkspace where we'd bring a
client in, maybe 50-60 from aclient in a very complex
situation.
And in three days, they'd allwalk out agreeing to a plan they
had developed.
And the value proposition waswe did months of work in days.
(04:24):
And I fell in love with that.
I didn't realize facilitationcollaborative collaborative work
was even the thing you coulddo.
I fell in love with it.
I felt called to it.
And after Cap Gemini acquiredthe Ernst Young consulting
practice, I thought maybe thisis my signal to leave and to
start my own business justfocusing on the collaborative
(04:44):
work, change management, andthat kind of thing, right?
And uh rather than trying toalso add on additional sales of
strategy and all those thingsthat a big consultant firm would
do.
So I felt so called to thatwork, I said I've got to set up
my own way to do it, created myown methodology for leading
groups, and uh off I went.
Wow.
Dr. William Attaway (05:05):
You've helped so many people over the
years, but then came Halftime.
You know, a lot of ourlisteners may not be familiar
with Halftime.
Can you share a little bitabout the uh the company, what
why they started, what they'reabout, and what your role there
has been.
Tom McGehee (05:19):
Yeah, so uh Halftime was originally a book
by a guy named Bob Buford.
Bob was an entrepreneur, he uhsold his company and made a ton
of money.
And back then, 25 years ago,coined the phrase he would
always say, I spent the firsthalf of my life being
successful, I wanted to spendthe second half being
significant.
So he wrote that book.
(05:40):
Twenty-five years ago, businessleaders saw that, and you had a
lot of people who had likestarted a business and cashed
out, and their identity wasgone, and they didn't know what
they were supposed to do, whereto go.
And Bob created this movementof people in what he then
defined as halftime, halfwaythrough your life, and you're
saying, okay, what's my secondhalf gonna look like?
What am I gonna do?
(06:01):
I wanted, when I started mycompany, being a man of faith, I
wanted to use my process, notjust for Fortune 100 companies,
but for churches and ministriesand nonprofits around the world.
And I got introduced, somebodysaid, Well, if you want to work
with churches, you ought to meetBob.
And through a series of events,I did and ended up co-locating
(06:21):
my office with him.
And we did about 80% of ourwork for Fortune 100 companies
and about 20 cent for primarilyministries and churches around
the world, and also nonprofits.
So we had sort of a, we feltlike we were earning money,
right, and doing what we neededto do to grow and provide
revenue and the things we wantedto do for us.
But we felt like we were havingthat significant impact so we
were having success.
(06:41):
We felt like we were having asignificant impact also in doing
that part of the work as well.
So that's how that's how I gotintroduced to halftime 25 years
ago.
About six years ago, I'd alwaysstayed close, and about six
years ago, uh, the then CEOasked me to help them build a
new global strategy.
And that got me re-engaged.
Jim Stolberg was a guy who wason their board and he was
(07:04):
working with me on strategy.
He was a former uh Accenturestrategy kind of guy, and so we
worked really well together.
And one day the CEO of Halftimecame in and said, I think you
two should run Halftime.
And uh I kind of said, Well, Iwill if you will.
And we jumped in and asco-CEOs, which I know a lot of
books and people would say neverdo it.
It was probably one of the bestworking experiences of my life
(07:26):
for a lot of reasons.
But uh so we we have ledhalftime up until January of
this year.
We were acquired by a largerministry called Faith-driven,
faith-driven entrepreneurs,faith-driven investors.
And so we're co we're stillleading halftime a little bit,
although I'm about to exit.
At the end of the year, I'mgonna be off to a new adventure
for whatever that might be,including mostly my grandkids
(07:48):
and kids, and then we'll we'llbuild from there.
Dr. William Attaway (07:51):
That's gonna be rewarding, I know.
Probably a little tiring too,but very rewarding.
Tom McGehee (07:55):
When you have 10 10 grandkids and one on the way,
and they all live within 30minutes of your house, it keeps
you busy.
What a blessing.
It is a blessing.
It's great.
You know, I grew up the son ofan Air Force uh officer, and so
we always moved around.
So I I had no idea what it waslike or the value it was to have
my family close, right?
It's just a huge blessing.
So that's a gift.
Dr. William Attaway (08:16):
You know, co-CEO, like you say, a whole
lot of people would tell you, bevery careful.
That's uh that's a an areafraught with landmines.
You've navigated that foryears.
We did.
I'm curious, like as you thinkabout that journey, you know, I
mean, obviously there's someingredients in that particular
soup that are absolutelynon-negotiable.
What are some of the thingsyou've learned during that
(08:39):
season?
Tom McGehee (08:39):
Thank you.
It's it's it's been a greatthing.
I think there there were acouple of things we said.
One, it was a bit easierbecause it was a nonprofit,
because I think the first ruleof co-leadership is you can't
have any ego in the game.
Yeah.
Right.
And if you're if you're uh youknow aiming towards something
like stock options or a buyoutor even big bonuses or whatever,
(09:01):
and you feel you're competingwith the other guy, you're never
going to really have thattightness you have.
Well, in a nonprofit, you don'thave that, have that worry,
right?
Don't have that that trap.
So one of the things we wouldsay is right off the bat, we had
to keep our ego out of it.
And one thing I realized ishalftime had actually asked me
to work with them, not as aleader, but as one of their key
(09:23):
executives, maybe 10 years ago.
Had I said yes, I realized Iwould have failed miserably.
Because I still had way toomuch ego in the game.
Uh I would have wanted to bethe guy on the stage, I would
have wanted to pretend I wassuccessful as many of the
successful businessmen we workwith, because that's our market,
uh, it would not have been theright time for me.
(09:43):
Now, when this came around, Iwas at a season of my life where
I could let my ego go.
In fact, when the board ofdirectors said, Okay, so there
are two of you, uh, if you cometo disagreement, how are you
going to make a decision?
Which is a great question.
unknown (09:57):
Yeah.
Tom McGehee (09:58):
And I immediately said, Jim gets the last word.
And that just kind of settledthat, right?
Now, the truth was we nevercame to a disagreement because
he and I would work things outso much and work together so
closely that whatever decisionwe ended up making, we both felt
was the best decision to make.
So the first thing that made itwork was no ego.
(10:20):
The other thing that some mightfind surprising is we did not
have defined roles.
You know, a lot of books say,well, if you're going to work
together, you need to definewhat each person's doing.
And I would say if you're goingto do that, have like a CEO and
a president.
Because you're you're dividingtasks.
What we did is we just said, wewill play to our strengths and
stay in our lane.
(10:41):
So for example, I'm really goodon course design, on some
strategy, on thinking aboutthings.
He's an engineer.
So he was really good atlooking at the systems and uh he
maintained all the budget, allthe financial obligations, all
those kinds of things.
I was I may have been at Ernestand Young, but I was on the
consulting side, not theaccounting side.
You don't want me, you don'twant me giving you close.
A little too creative for that,right?
(11:03):
So we would play to eachother's strengths, and what we
realized is the most importantthing for was us to spend time,
this may go back a little bit tothe mission type orders, for us
to make sure we were absolutelyaligned on strategy and
direction.
So that if he went to a meetingor I went to a meeting, you
were hearing the same voice.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Yeah.
Tom McGehee (11:25):
Right?
So with employees or anybody,you didn't run into the mom and
dad syndrome, right?
Where they go ask momsomething, she says no, so I'll
go ask dad.
You know, we didn't want thatto happen.
So the way to prevent that isyou're locked in, and it kept us
focused again on the high game,you know, and let people, let
our team run under us inwhatever direction, you know, we
were we were kind of headingup.
(11:46):
So those those were a couple ofthe big things that I think
made it really work.
Uh plus Jim's a great guy, andwe just, you know, personally
hit it off real well together.
Dr. William Attaway (11:54):
You know, I th I I think about this and I
think about something that I'vetalked with with more than one
couple about over the years, andthat I have taught when I've
taught about what it looks liketo have a good, healthy marriage
as a person of faith.
I think the the best counselthat I could possibly give is
what Paul wrote to theEphesians, Ephesians 5.21.
(12:16):
He said, submit to one anotherout of reverence for Christ.
That mutual submission.
And that's the humility you'redescribing with a co-CEO role,
right?
Where we're gonna makedecisions together.
There's never a time whensomebody's gonna power up on the
other.
And just like I think that'shell in a in a good, healthy
marriage as a person of faith, Ithink that's also an absolute
(12:36):
non-negotiable in what you'redescribing, where nobody's gonna
say, wait a minute, but I wantmy way.
I can't imagine there weren'ttimes when you were tempted to
go down that road.
Tom McGehee (12:48):
Well, there were times when I saw when I thought
that the way I wanted to do itdifferently to get it done than
the way he wanted to do it.
And uh kind of another lesson Ijust you just reminded me of
when I was in Marine Corps, whenI when I got out, I used to
say, if you tell a Barine whatto do, he will get it done.
If you tell him that just whatneeds to be done, he will
(13:10):
always, he or she will always domore.
And and so what I would find isI would I would go into a
meeting thinking, you know, Ireally we got to do it the way I
think.
And by the time we walked out,I was like, man, I'm so glad I
asked for help.
That that I had a good idea,but the people I was working
with, Jim in particular, alwaysmade it better.
(13:30):
And he could probably say vicevice versa.
It was good.
Peter Drucker, and part of thatbeing in because halftime is a
nonprofit in a ministry, thewhole focus is helping high
capacity leaders find out whothey are and what God has for
them to do.
We need them to be verytransparent with us about where
they are in their journey, yeah,where they are in their
(13:52):
identity, right?
Where they are in theirpersonal life, where they are in
their spiritual life, what isit they want to go do?
We need them to really behonest and transparent with us.
And if we want to do that,we've got to be the same to
them.
And so even the co-leadershipthing even forced more of that,
right?
That he and I had to betransparent with each other and
(14:13):
kind of set that culture even onour team, which I think not
only leads for a better,certainly nonprofit, but it but
it leads for then it has to bethat way if that's what you're
expecting from your clients.
You know, so it just workedout.
I mean, it's been a greatthing.
Dr. William Attaway (14:30):
You know, it's it's so refreshing to see
somebody who is such a strongleader who has led in so many
different contexts, but does nothave the ego that forces them
to always be at the point,always be right, and in in
choosing to be right, you choosenot to make a difference.
You know, and what I'm seeingis somebody who has made a
(14:52):
difference over time.
That humility of spirit.
Tom McGehee (14:56):
You would have not seen the same person probably 15
years ago, you know.
You know, I mean it is itreally has come with some time.
I was raised, my father, when Iwas born, my my sister's 12
years older than I am.
And uh by the time I was born,so he married my mom, got her
pregnant, went off to World WarII, was a B15 pilot.
Right?
Wow.
(15:17):
And you can kind of see thethinking, right?
At least I want to leave alegacy if I'll get shot down.
I mean, yeah, I thought.
And my sister was born, andthat was great, but he always
wanted a son.
And so he got my mom pregnant.
Now, by the time she getspregnant, about almost 40 years
old, and he's a general, he wasembarrassed to be pregnant
(15:37):
because lieutenants' wives arepregnant, not general's wives,
right?
So when I was born, I was theson my dad always wanted.
I mean, he, you know, he I heloved me.
I was a bit of an embarrassmentto my mom, even as, you know,
to have to have that and raise alittle kid and do those, do
those kind of things.
So I've grown up all my life onone end being thought, man, I'm
(15:57):
I I can do anything and I'mpretty special, on the other
end, I'll never be good enough.
And so in any phase of life,but even it comes to the
leadership thing, if the voiceof you're not good enough wins,
you're gonna wanna, you're gonnawanna, you know, even more than
ego, you gotta prove something,you gotta be something, you
gotta be the person out front.
And, you know, it's always abattle I fought between those.
(16:20):
Fortunately, kind of the otherside of I am loved by God, I'm
uniquely created, I'm verycapable.
I have skills that are mine.
I don't have to try to pretendI have skills of somebody else,
you know, and and am probablymore comfortable in my skin and
what I think God has for me todo in the future and what I'm
doing now, probably than I everhave been.
You know, I'm not chasingsomething anymore.
(16:42):
So good place to be.
I love that.
I'd love to know we'll getthere sooner.
Dr. William Attaway (16:48):
Absolutely.
Well, and that's and that's somuch of what I see in halftime.
Yeah, you know.
I mean, uh somebody gave methat book not long after I
turned 40.
And uh, you know, having readthat now a decade ago, like how
that has influenced my mindsetand my thought patterns around,
okay, yeah, your first half isis success.
Okay, get that.
(17:08):
What does significance mean?
Yeah.
What does that look like?
And that's the work that reallyyou've been involved in for
these last years.
Tom McGehee (17:15):
That's exactly right.
And and you know, if I werewhen the book was written 25
years ago, the idea of successto significance made sense.
If I was rewriting that booktoday, I'd title it significant
success.
Because I think today a lot ofpeople they don't won't see it
linear, right?
Like I'm gonna be reallysuccessful, then I'll go do
something.
They they they want to knowwhat to do today matters.
That's okay.
(17:35):
And I, you know, I think that'sfine, but then how do you one
of the things that that's reallybeen put on my heart lately as
I'm looking at the next seasonis really around a verse in the
Bible that talks about anabundant life.
And it talks about an enemythat wants to keep you from it,
but it talks about, you know,having an abundant life.
And and I'm really starting todo some writing and thinking
(17:57):
that begins with how do youdefine abundance in your life?
That's it.
You know, I I mean, in halftimeand kind of been introduced to
people through that, I've met anawful lot of very successful,
very rich people who would notdescribe their life as abundant.
And so I think the key to that,whether you're making a lot of
money or not, whether you're atthe top of the organization or
(18:19):
somewhere in it, the key to anabundant life is when you wake
up every morning and say, youknow, I'm doing what I think I
was created to do.
Yeah.
And that's that's I guess as Ithink about sort of this next
season for me, that's kind ofwhat I'm gonna try to focus on.
Help people figure that out,right?
Because that's at any age, youknow, and I've had the blessing
throughout my career.
(18:39):
When I was a Marine, I felt Iwas told to be a Marine.
I woke up every morning, boy, Iwas ready to go.
Get passed over for promotion,get out, go in the corporate
world.
That was the one place that Imatter of fact, I can show you
one of the things we do athalftime when they go through
our courses, the main course,the 12-month course, is uh we
have an artist that'll create alittle uh image for you based on
(19:02):
what you've said.
And when I went through theprogram, this was mine, and it
came from a statement I saidthat when I was at EDS, I was
fairly successful, but I was Ifelt like a guy in an empty
suit.
I didn't know who I was, Ididn't know what I was, you
know, it didn't feel like mycalling, didn't feel like my
passion.
I wasn't waking up.
(19:22):
I was waking up more in themorning going, man, hope they
don't realize what a poser I am,you know.
Wow.
Then really trying to see.
When I went through theprogram, the friend of mine who
painted this said, you know, hepainted this for me because that
may have been who I was, but hethinks now I will be able to
help a lot of men and women whoare in the same place.
And that's kind of what I'mabout, right?
(19:45):
So I've been blessed that inthe Marines, finding this kind
of facilitation work that Ilove, doing it at Ernst ⁇ Young,
doing it on my own, getting todo it through halftime.
I mean, that is all stuff thatI almost can't not do it.
You know, and so it just feelsgreat.
So, so between that and myfamily and everything, the way
(20:05):
things are, I would, you know,and and there are a lot of
things in family and and in lifeyou can't control it all.
That's right.
But I would say I've had apretty abundant life.
Uh maybe not have made as muchmoney as anybody else, you know,
uh, have certainly made a tonof mistakes.
Uh have had our sent our ourshare of tragedy, right?
Our our oldest son was killedabout 15 years ago in a
(20:27):
motorcycle accident.
My goodness.
We've been through the ups anddowns, but I would still say,
like some of those guys in theBible, that it ends and says,
you know, he he led a long, fulllife.
And I gotta, you know, I haveand I want to help others do the
same now.
Dr. William Attaway (20:40):
Well, and I think that that's the mark of
what I call a catalytic leader,Tom.
Is somebody who's not justgonna be a recipient of the
lessons and the the wisdom thatcomes from going through the
years, but somebody who's gonnabe a conduit, you know, not
gonna be a reservoir justholding it all in, but instead
be a conduit so that you becomesomebody who shares with all of
(21:02):
the people around you for theirbenefit.
That's what I see in your storyand what I hear today from your
journey.
You are that conduit.
And that is a commitment thatyou have made based on how God's
created you and wired you.
There's no such thing as awasted experience, you know, and
you've leveraged thoseexperiences for the benefit of
other people.
Tom McGehee (21:23):
Well, and I want to do it even more and less
selfishly, right?
I mean, it's one thing, say, tobe a CEO and to know that
you've let people run and betheir best and do things, but in
the back of your mind, you'rethinking about every time I meet
somebody, for example, oh,could this be the next deal?
You know, what's the what's thething?
I'm trying to grow thebusiness, or you know, I'm
(21:46):
really glad you're doing well,and don't I look good because
you're doing it?
You know, rather, and I'vecertainly met my share of
leaders who are purely focusedon no, I'm about you doing good.
You know, and so more and morethat's how I want to be.
And I just think I also thinkfrom all the halftime exposure,
you know, we work withpredominantly almost exclusively
(22:08):
business leaders.
And, you know, you know, thewhole business and life kind of
spectrum, I mean, it's almostlike success and significance,
you know, and quote, quote,work-life balance and all those
kind of things.
I mean, that's a, you know,it's it's a tough thing to
figure out.
It it's hard to do in anyprofession.
I've met pastors who are justdoing all they can and their
(22:29):
families falling apart, right?
unknown (22:30):
Yeah.
Tom McGehee (22:31):
I mean, you know, you put all your time into it,
put all your effort into it.
I mean, when I was in theMarines, I I made four six-month
deployments.
I missed the birth of two kids.
You know, there were things Ihad to do, and unfortunately, I
have a very strong wife who waswho was there for me.
But when I got out of theMarines, that attitude didn't
really go away, right?
Yeah.
Either one, you know, I know Igot a kid's soccer game, but I
(22:54):
really got to go do this thingfor my business, especially when
you become an entrepreneur andit's all on you, right?
I mean, that never never shutsoff, you know.
The other and even in ministry,I I I will joke that my wife's
best ministry is that shedoesn't have one.
You are her you are herministry.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, that's a full-time gig,too, I'll tell you.
Talking about a heavy cross tobear.
(23:14):
But you know, if she's in thegrocery store and strikes up a
conversation with a woman, andthis woman needs to talk for a
while, she can stand and talk.
You know, it's real easy for meto go, you know, I'd love to
talk to you, but I got to go doministry, right?
I mean, you just get driven onthat stuff.
And so, so there's no simpleanswer, there's no cookie-cutter
answer.
Everybody's different.
(23:34):
I think if you know yourstrengths and you know how to
stay in your zone and you areable to delegate what you're not
good at to others, you're gonnafind you have more time to do
the things.
I think a lot of times leaderslose that time because one,
they're doing things that reallyare not in their gifting and so
(23:55):
not in their strength.
It's sucking away their energy,and they're probably only doing
it if they do it well, it'staking them more time than it
should, and thus they don't havetime for other things, right?
Uh, you know, that's the callburnout kind of stuff.
But if you if you know whereyour lane is, and one, you can
delegate, and two, you can trustit's gonna be done, you know,
(24:16):
and it's kind of like the oldReagan, it's trust but verify.
That's right.
Right?
Yeah, you know, but but if youcan run that way and not feel
like you have to you have toallow them the ability to say,
you know, I see how that wouldwork, even if I wouldn't have
done it that way.
And that lets you stay whereyou are, which then frees up the
most precious asset preciousasset we all have, which is
(24:37):
time.
Dr. William Attaway (24:38):
That's it.
Tom McGehee (24:39):
Yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (24:40):
You know, Tom, you you you have been on a
continual growth curve throughyour life and through your
journey.
And that's that's obvious fromwhat you shared today.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
team, your your clients, uhpeople around you are gonna need
you to have in the days ahead?
Tom McGehee (25:01):
Wow.
Um I try to keep up on reading.
Okay.
You know, a lot of readingthings.
I I will tell you that latelymy reading has much more moved
toward the area of spiritual andpersonal development and less
in the area of quote leadershipand leadership books, those kind
of things, which I used to reada ton of, right?
So there's the continualreading podcasts, looking at
(25:24):
things like that to get input,various directions, various
things.
I uh I'm working on some ideasnow around abundance, and as I
exit uh the company, I've got astack of books about that big,
and I promise myself I'm notgoing to start something or even
write something until I've kindof looked at all the research
that's there, rather than justkind of diving in.
(25:46):
That's one.
The other is at halftime wetalked about having a personal
board of advisors.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Yeah.
Tom McGehee (25:53):
You know, Peter Drucker used to say, you know,
that you need a group where youcan think your confusion out
loud.
Yes.
And and, you know, when I'mtalking to people, to two two
groups, one is sort of personalboard of advisors, a number of
halftime coaches and friends,it'll help me think through
this.
The other thing is we're at achurch, I'll be 70 this year,
(26:13):
and we're at a church and we'rein a class where we're not the
young ones, but there are anumber in their 80s.
And and I don't have a wholelot of examples of what that
next decade is going to looklike, or life in a decade from
now, right?
And so trying to do both sides,the personal director board's
all younger than I am, andthey're going to help pull me
(26:36):
into what is relevant today,what is real, what's going on in
the life of so many people thathaven't been, aren't where I
am, where I can say, you know, Idon't have to work and things
are good and I finally got towhere I want to be and all that,
all that kind of stuff.
They're pulling me into thereality of the world as I try to
shape a message or work withpeople.
And then those in that classthat are 10 or 15 years ahead of
(26:58):
me, you know, it's like, wow,okay, that's what it's going to
be like, and it's coming prettyquick, you know.
And that just helps me say,what do I need to do to get
there?
So for example, I I startedlifting weights this year.
I used to do that as a youngman, used to do it as a marine
all the time and stuff, but itlaid off, and and now I'm in the
gym three times a day.
unknown (27:19):
Wow.
Tom McGehee (27:20):
Three times a day.
I'm not in the gym at 70, I'mnot going to be in the gym at
80.
My goodness.
So so that kind of thing is uh,you know, it's just uh so so
that's probably trying to stayon top of it.
One is stay on top of where'sthe world and how can I be
relevant, and the other is stayon top of how do I prepare for
kind of my last season as itcomes up, you know.
So absolutely I do both.
Dr. William Attaway (27:42):
So as a reader, is there a a book that
you would recommend to theleaders who are listening that,
hey, this one's made a bigdifference in my journey.
And if you haven't read it, youreally should.
Tom McGehee (27:52):
Well, because of where I am, they're gonna be
more faith-oriented books.
Uh one one I would so a storeabout two years ago, I was
diagnosed with prostate cancer.
And so far I had an MRI thisweek, so the prayers are it's
all gonna look good because sofar everything looked good.
I've been treated holistically.
(28:14):
I haven't done any been onsupplements, had some blood work
infusions kind of thing.
Nice um, but I I I found outit's probably cancer, or you
know, you kind of take the test,and it was a two-week period
before I got the real answer.
And just prior to that, a guyhad given me a book by an author
named John Eldridge.
(28:34):
And Eldridge has written a lotof books.
He's a yeah, I really like him.
He's very focused on uh aperson's walk with Christ and
how he keeps clothes and thosekind of things.
But uh he wrote a book yearsago called Wild at Heart for
Men.
That was a great kind ofstirring book.
But but he wrote one rightafter COVID called Resilient.
(28:56):
And somebody handed it to meabout two weeks before I uh was
diagnosed with cancer.
And reading that book aboutbeing resilient helped me get
through not only the two weeks,but set me up for this what's
now been a two-year journey,right?
And so even though it's a veryfaith-based book, that idea for
(29:21):
a leader of resilience is reallyimportant.
And and resilience doesn't comefrom, like I said, just making
sure you kill the numbers in thefourth quarter, or uh, you
know, you're growing thecompany, you're compounded,
whatever you want it to do, orthings like that, because it's
an internal thing.
It's the difference between along sustained growth personally
(29:42):
and a curve that either youskyrocket and drop, or you or
you or you hit a wall and burnout, or or anything like that,
right?
So, right off the top of myhead, I'd recommend the book
Resilient.
There are a couple of others.
One that's a little morebusiness oriented by a real man
of faith, who's called A SacredPace.
By Terry Looper.
Terry Looper was a businessguy, made his first few million
(30:04):
bucks and had a literally anervous breakdown.
Dr. William Attaway (30:07):
Oh my goodness.
Tom McGehee (30:08):
And and you know, he's kind of on the floor
saying, God, if you you save mefrom this, I'll, you know, I'll
fix myself, whatever it is, youknow, right?
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yeah.
Tom McGehee (30:15):
And that happened, and he heard the Lord tell him
to start a company.
And he's like, Did you not seeI just had a breakdown?
Right?
I mean, you know, maybe maybeyou didn't get the full picture
here, you know.
When he started his company,uh, he had two rules when he
started it.
One was uh no sales quotas,because he said it drives people
crazy.
And two, even in startup mode,everybody only works 40 hours a
(30:39):
week.
Now that company became Texon,which is about a $7 billion
company, I think.
So I mean, that oil and gas.
I mean, grew, grew.
He just he just sold it offcompletely.
He's a merger and acquisitionkind of guru as he as he grew
the company.
But the book, Sacred Pace,really talks about how do I keep
pace, you know, when I'm ratherthan running and burning out
(31:02):
and stuff.
Dr. William Attaway (31:03):
So I think those two.
I love that.
I've never read either ofthose.
So clearly I have a bookproblem.
I need to get this.
Tom McGehee (31:11):
Thank you for that.
Dr. William Attaway (31:12):
I could talk to you for another hour.
I mean, there's so much insightthat you have gained over the
years, so much wisdom.
And I'm so grateful for yousharing so generously today.
Tom McGehee (31:21):
Well, thank you.
I uh, you know, this is a thisis a journey, a career path.
I mean, for a guy who didstrategy, I never could have
planned a career path like this.
And and you know, theexperiences of the military, of
corporate work, of partnership,of entrepreneurship, of
ministry.
Having done all of that, I'vegotten to uh and done a lot of
that around the world, not justin the U.S.
(31:42):
I've just gotten to see somuch.
Uh and and to be healthy andstrong enough, I'm hoping even
you know, in this next season,if I can be of help to anybody
and share anything with anybody,I would love to do that, right?
Because that's you're right.
I'm I'm I'm I've been blessedenough.
I'm in a season of giving back,and I really want to try to do
that however I can.
Dr. William Attaway (32:02):
Well, you've certainly done it today
with our audience, and I'm sograteful.
I know people are gonna want tostay connected to you and
continue to learn more from youand about what you're doing
next, whatever that's gonna looklike.
What's the best way for folksto connect with you, Tom?
Tom McGehee (32:17):
So probably I would keep the Tom.mcGee, and it's
M-C-G-E-H-E-E, it's likeMcGeehee, Tom.mcGee at
halftime.org.
Uh I'm gonna stay connectedwith Halftime.
I'll probably stay on as sortof a coach and where I can help.
At least for the next year.
So that would be a place youcan find you can find it on the
halftime website, halftime.org.
You can find me.
(32:37):
Uh I'll be there for a while uhuntil they write me off.
So yeah, yeah, that'd probablybe the best way for now.
LinkedIn, I'm on LinkedIn.
Perfect.
Dr. William Attaway (32:52):
We'll have all those links in the show
notes.
Tom McGehee (32:54):
Thank you.
Dr. William Attaway (32:55):
Tom, thank you.
So grateful for your timetoday.
Thanks, man.
Enjoyed it.
I'm so excited today to have Tom McGee
on the podcast.
A Marine, a corporate leader, aconsulting partner, an
entrepreneur, and now co-CEO forthe Halftime Institute.
Tom's journey has been rich andfull.
He served for 12 years in theU.S.
Marines, where he commanded twospecial operations units.
(00:20):
After his service, he was anexecutive with EDS and a partner
with Ernst ⁇ Young LLP.
Now at Halftime, Tom helpsleaders live out their calling.
Tom, I'm so glad you're here.
Man, thanks for being on theshow.
Thank you.
Intro (00:34):
It's a pleasure to be with you.
Welcome to CatalyticLeadership, the podcast designed
to help leaders intentionallygrow and thrive.
Here is your host, author, andleadership and executive coach,
Dr.
William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (00:55):
I'd love to start with you sharing a little
bit of your story with ourlisteners, particularly around
your journey and yourdevelopment as a leader.
How did you get started?
Tom McGehee (01:05):
You know, it's a great question.
Somebody asked me this just theother day.
And I think a lot of myinfluence and leadership came
from time in the Marine Corps.
Two big things that stuck outthat I've always kind of
patterned around.
One is the taking care of thetroops idea, right?
The first thing they yourealize at OCS is if you're the
leader, your men eat before youdo.
(01:26):
It begins to build in you this,you know, that they're more
important than you are.
And that that led me probablyeventually into this whole life
I've had primarily aroundcollaborative work and
collaborative strategy,realizing in my mind, people
support what they help create.
So how do I get them involved?
The other big thing that'sinfluenced me in leadership is
(01:46):
the way the Marines would giveorders.
They move to a thing theycalled mission type orders.
So instead of it being verycommand and control, like you do
this, and then once you've donethat, tell me, and I'll tell
you to do this, and I'll tellyou to go there, and I'll move
things like that.
Like managers who can get somuch information, they're
micromanaging people.
The Marine Corps realized anumber of years ago, with the
(02:08):
chaos on the battlefield today,you can't go at it that way.
So a mission type order saysyou tell a leader, here's the
objective and what I want done.
Here's the resources you haveto do it, here are your
boundaries, now you go figure itout.
And so I've always kind of ledthat way, right?
How can I, and then what thatmeans for me as a leader is
instead of looking at all thedetails on how they're doing it,
(02:31):
I need to just be measuring,did it get done?
If it did, what else do we do?
And if it didn't, what do wehave to do to fix it?
That's kind of been my approachsince I got in the corporate
world and as an entrepreneur andeverything else.
Dr. William Attaway (02:45):
You know, your journey has been has been
an interesting one, you know,after the Marines.
I mean, EDS, Ernst ⁇ Young, Imean, you know, definite
corporate, right?
I mean, you know, corporateleader, uh consulting partner.
Why entrepreneurship?
Tom McGehee (03:01):
Oh, that's a great, uh, great question.
So some would say that the movewhen I made it to EDS was uh
somewhat familiar because it wasthe last stages of Ross Perot
who was hiring a lot of formermilitary people.
I got into EDS just as theoutsourcing market was not only
changing, but EDS was trying tobecome more value-oriented
(03:21):
rather than just deal-orientedwhere they would take over and
outsourcing, right?
Technology was moving wherepeople that you were working
with, companies that they wereengaging with, didn't want
somebody just to run their ITcheaper.
They wanted them to addadditional value.
And of course, all the ERPsystems were coming online and
the MRP said, all that was kindof starting to roll out.
(03:42):
I got into Ermston Youngbecause they were hiring five
people directly in as partnersto start an outsourcing
practice, and I was fortunateenough to be one of those.
And so went directly in aspartner.
I knew I was neitherhardworking enough or smart
enough to ever earn partner if Igot there.
So if you're gonna give it tome, though, I'm gonna take it.
So it was just you know, just areal blessing to jump in like
(04:03):
that.
When I was at uh Ernst ⁇ Young,they had a collaborative center
they called the AcceleratedSolutions Environment.
And it was a nonlinearworkspace where we'd bring a
client in, maybe 50-60 from aclient in a very complex
situation.
And in three days, they'd allwalk out agreeing to a plan they
had developed.
And the value proposition waswe did months of work in days.
(04:24):
And I fell in love with that.
I didn't realize facilitationcollaborative collaborative work
was even the thing you coulddo.
I fell in love with it.
I felt called to it.
And after Cap Gemini acquiredthe Ernst Young consulting
practice, I thought maybe thisis my signal to leave and to
start my own business justfocusing on the collaborative
(04:44):
work, change management, andthat kind of thing, right?
And uh rather than trying toalso add on additional sales of
strategy and all those thingsthat a big consultant firm would
do.
So I felt so called to thatwork, I said I've got to set up
my own way to do it, created myown methodology for leading
groups, and uh off I went.
Wow.
Dr. William Attaway (05:05):
You've helped so many people over the
years, but then came Halftime.
You know, a lot of ourlisteners may not be familiar
with Halftime.
Can you share a little bitabout the uh the company, what
why they started, what they'reabout, and what your role there
has been.
Tom McGehee (05:19):
Yeah, so uh Halftime was originally a book
by a guy named Bob Buford.
Bob was an entrepreneur, he uhsold his company and made a ton
of money.
And back then, 25 years ago,coined the phrase he would
always say, I spent the firsthalf of my life being
successful, I wanted to spendthe second half being
significant.
So he wrote that book.
(05:40):
Twenty-five years ago, businessleaders saw that, and you had a
lot of people who had likestarted a business and cashed
out, and their identity wasgone, and they didn't know what
they were supposed to do, whereto go.
And Bob created this movementof people in what he then
defined as halftime, halfwaythrough your life, and you're
saying, okay, what's my secondhalf gonna look like?
What am I gonna do?
(06:01):
I wanted, when I started mycompany, being a man of faith, I
wanted to use my process, notjust for Fortune 100 companies,
but for churches and ministriesand nonprofits around the world.
And I got introduced, somebodysaid, Well, if you want to work
with churches, you ought to meetBob.
And through a series of events,I did and ended up co-locating
(06:21):
my office with him.
And we did about 80% of ourwork for Fortune 100 companies
and about 20 cent for primarilyministries and churches around
the world, and also nonprofits.
So we had sort of a, we feltlike we were earning money,
right, and doing what we neededto do to grow and provide
revenue and the things we wantedto do for us.
But we felt like we were havingthat significant impact so we
were having success.
(06:41):
We felt like we were having asignificant impact also in doing
that part of the work as well.
So that's how that's how I gotintroduced to halftime 25 years
ago.
About six years ago, I'd alwaysstayed close, and about six
years ago, uh, the then CEOasked me to help them build a
new global strategy.
And that got me re-engaged.
Jim Stolberg was a guy who wason their board and he was
(07:04):
working with me on strategy.
He was a former uh Accenturestrategy kind of guy, and so we
worked really well together.
And one day the CEO of Halftimecame in and said, I think you
two should run Halftime.
And uh I kind of said, Well, Iwill if you will.
And we jumped in and asco-CEOs, which I know a lot of
books and people would say neverdo it.
It was probably one of the bestworking experiences of my life
(07:26):
for a lot of reasons.
But uh so we we have ledhalftime up until January of
this year.
We were acquired by a largerministry called Faith-driven,
faith-driven entrepreneurs,faith-driven investors.
And so we're co we're stillleading halftime a little bit,
although I'm about to exit.
At the end of the year, I'mgonna be off to a new adventure
for whatever that might be,including mostly my grandkids
(07:48):
and kids, and then we'll we'llbuild from there.
Dr. William Attaway (07:51):
That's gonna be rewarding, I know.
Probably a little tiring too,but very rewarding.
Tom McGehee (07:55):
When you have 10 10 grandkids and one on the way,
and they all live within 30minutes of your house, it keeps
you busy.
What a blessing.
It is a blessing.
It's great.
You know, I grew up the son ofan Air Force uh officer, and so
we always moved around.
So I I had no idea what it waslike or the value it was to have
my family close, right?
It's just a huge blessing.
So that's a gift.
Dr. William Attaway (08:16):
You know, co-CEO, like you say, a whole
lot of people would tell you, bevery careful.
That's uh that's a an areafraught with landmines.
You've navigated that foryears.
We did.
I'm curious, like as you thinkabout that journey, you know, I
mean, obviously there's someingredients in that particular
soup that are absolutelynon-negotiable.
What are some of the thingsyou've learned during that
(08:39):
season?
Tom McGehee (08:39):
Thank you.
It's it's it's been a greatthing.
I think there there were acouple of things we said.
One, it was a bit easierbecause it was a nonprofit,
because I think the first ruleof co-leadership is you can't
have any ego in the game.
Yeah.
Right.
And if you're if you're uh youknow aiming towards something
like stock options or a buyoutor even big bonuses or whatever,
(09:01):
and you feel you're competingwith the other guy, you're never
going to really have thattightness you have.
Well, in a nonprofit, you don'thave that, have that worry,
right?
Don't have that that trap.
So one of the things we wouldsay is right off the bat, we had
to keep our ego out of it.
And one thing I realized ishalftime had actually asked me
to work with them, not as aleader, but as one of their key
(09:23):
executives, maybe 10 years ago.
Had I said yes, I realized Iwould have failed miserably.
Because I still had way toomuch ego in the game.
Uh I would have wanted to bethe guy on the stage, I would
have wanted to pretend I wassuccessful as many of the
successful businessmen we workwith, because that's our market,
uh, it would not have been theright time for me.
(09:43):
Now, when this came around, Iwas at a season of my life where
I could let my ego go.
In fact, when the board ofdirectors said, Okay, so there
are two of you, uh, if you cometo disagreement, how are you
going to make a decision?
Which is a great question.
unknown (09:57):
Yeah.
Tom McGehee (09:58):
And I immediately said, Jim gets the last word.
And that just kind of settledthat, right?
Now, the truth was we nevercame to a disagreement because
he and I would work things outso much and work together so
closely that whatever decisionwe ended up making, we both felt
was the best decision to make.
So the first thing that made itwork was no ego.
(10:20):
The other thing that some mightfind surprising is we did not
have defined roles.
You know, a lot of books say,well, if you're going to work
together, you need to definewhat each person's doing.
And I would say if you're goingto do that, have like a CEO and
a president.
Because you're you're dividingtasks.
What we did is we just said, wewill play to our strengths and
stay in our lane.
(10:41):
So for example, I'm really goodon course design, on some
strategy, on thinking aboutthings.
He's an engineer.
So he was really good atlooking at the systems and uh he
maintained all the budget, allthe financial obligations, all
those kinds of things.
I was I may have been at Ernestand Young, but I was on the
consulting side, not theaccounting side.
You don't want me, you don'twant me giving you close.
A little too creative for that,right?
(11:03):
So we would play to eachother's strengths, and what we
realized is the most importantthing for was us to spend time,
this may go back a little bit tothe mission type orders, for us
to make sure we were absolutelyaligned on strategy and
direction.
So that if he went to a meetingor I went to a meeting, you
were hearing the same voice.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Yeah.
Tom McGehee (11:25):
Right?
So with employees or anybody,you didn't run into the mom and
dad syndrome, right?
Where they go ask momsomething, she says no, so I'll
go ask dad.
You know, we didn't want thatto happen.
So the way to prevent that isyou're locked in, and it kept us
focused again on the high game,you know, and let people, let
our team run under us inwhatever direction, you know, we
were we were kind of headingup.
(11:46):
So those those were a couple ofthe big things that I think
made it really work.
Uh plus Jim's a great guy, andwe just, you know, personally
hit it off real well together.
Dr. William Attaway (11:54):
You know, I th I I think about this and I
think about something that I'vetalked with with more than one
couple about over the years, andthat I have taught when I've
taught about what it looks liketo have a good, healthy marriage
as a person of faith.
I think the the best counselthat I could possibly give is
what Paul wrote to theEphesians, Ephesians 5.21.
(12:16):
He said, submit to one anotherout of reverence for Christ.
That mutual submission.
And that's the humility you'redescribing with a co-CEO role,
right?
Where we're gonna makedecisions together.
There's never a time whensomebody's gonna power up on the
other.
And just like I think that'shell in a in a good, healthy
marriage as a person of faith, Ithink that's also an absolute
(12:36):
non-negotiable in what you'redescribing, where nobody's gonna
say, wait a minute, but I wantmy way.
I can't imagine there weren'ttimes when you were tempted to
go down that road.
Tom McGehee (12:48):
Well, there were times when I saw when I thought
that the way I wanted to do itdifferently to get it done than
the way he wanted to do it.
And uh kind of another lesson Ijust you just reminded me of
when I was in Marine Corps, whenI when I got out, I used to
say, if you tell a Barine whatto do, he will get it done.
If you tell him that just whatneeds to be done, he will
(13:10):
always, he or she will always domore.
And and so what I would find isI would I would go into a
meeting thinking, you know, Ireally we got to do it the way I
think.
And by the time we walked out,I was like, man, I'm so glad I
asked for help.
That that I had a good idea,but the people I was working
with, Jim in particular, alwaysmade it better.
(13:30):
And he could probably say vicevice versa.
It was good.
Peter Drucker, and part of thatbeing in because halftime is a
nonprofit in a ministry, thewhole focus is helping high
capacity leaders find out whothey are and what God has for
them to do.
We need them to be verytransparent with us about where
they are in their journey, yeah,where they are in their
(13:52):
identity, right?
Where they are in theirpersonal life, where they are in
their spiritual life, what isit they want to go do?
We need them to really behonest and transparent with us.
And if we want to do that,we've got to be the same to
them.
And so even the co-leadershipthing even forced more of that,
right?
That he and I had to betransparent with each other and
(14:13):
kind of set that culture even onour team, which I think not
only leads for a better,certainly nonprofit, but it but
it leads for then it has to bethat way if that's what you're
expecting from your clients.
You know, so it just workedout.
I mean, it's been a greatthing.
Dr. William Attaway (14:30):
You know, it's it's so refreshing to see
somebody who is such a strongleader who has led in so many
different contexts, but does nothave the ego that forces them
to always be at the point,always be right, and in in
choosing to be right, you choosenot to make a difference.
You know, and what I'm seeingis somebody who has made a
(14:52):
difference over time.
That humility of spirit.
Tom McGehee (14:56):
You would have not seen the same person probably 15
years ago, you know.
You know, I mean it is itreally has come with some time.
I was raised, my father, when Iwas born, my my sister's 12
years older than I am.
And uh by the time I was born,so he married my mom, got her
pregnant, went off to World WarII, was a B15 pilot.
Right?
Wow.
(15:17):
And you can kind of see thethinking, right?
At least I want to leave alegacy if I'll get shot down.
I mean, yeah, I thought.
And my sister was born, andthat was great, but he always
wanted a son.
And so he got my mom pregnant.
Now, by the time she getspregnant, about almost 40 years
old, and he's a general, he wasembarrassed to be pregnant
(15:37):
because lieutenants' wives arepregnant, not general's wives,
right?
So when I was born, I was theson my dad always wanted.
I mean, he, you know, he I heloved me.
I was a bit of an embarrassmentto my mom, even as, you know,
to have to have that and raise alittle kid and do those, do
those kind of things.
So I've grown up all my life onone end being thought, man, I'm
(15:57):
I I can do anything and I'mpretty special, on the other
end, I'll never be good enough.
And so in any phase of life,but even it comes to the
leadership thing, if the voiceof you're not good enough wins,
you're gonna wanna, you're gonnawanna, you know, even more than
ego, you gotta prove something,you gotta be something, you
gotta be the person out front.
And, you know, it's always abattle I fought between those.
(16:20):
Fortunately, kind of the otherside of I am loved by God, I'm
uniquely created, I'm verycapable.
I have skills that are mine.
I don't have to try to pretendI have skills of somebody else,
you know, and and am probablymore comfortable in my skin and
what I think God has for me todo in the future and what I'm
doing now, probably than I everhave been.
You know, I'm not chasingsomething anymore.
(16:42):
So good place to be.
I love that.
I'd love to know we'll getthere sooner.
Dr. William Attaway (16:48):
Absolutely.
Well, and that's and that's somuch of what I see in halftime.
Yeah, you know.
I mean, uh somebody gave methat book not long after I
turned 40.
And uh, you know, having readthat now a decade ago, like how
that has influenced my mindsetand my thought patterns around,
okay, yeah, your first half isis success.
Okay, get that.
(17:08):
What does significance mean?
Yeah.
What does that look like?
And that's the work that reallyyou've been involved in for
these last years.
Tom McGehee (17:15):
That's exactly right.
And and you know, if I werewhen the book was written 25
years ago, the idea of successto significance made sense.
If I was rewriting that booktoday, I'd title it significant
success.
Because I think today a lot ofpeople they don't won't see it
linear, right?
Like I'm gonna be reallysuccessful, then I'll go do
something.
They they they want to knowwhat to do today matters.
That's okay.
(17:35):
And I, you know, I think that'sfine, but then how do you one
of the things that that's reallybeen put on my heart lately as
I'm looking at the next seasonis really around a verse in the
Bible that talks about anabundant life.
And it talks about an enemythat wants to keep you from it,
but it talks about, you know,having an abundant life.
And and I'm really starting todo some writing and thinking
(17:57):
that begins with how do youdefine abundance in your life?
That's it.
You know, I I mean, in halftimeand kind of been introduced to
people through that, I've met anawful lot of very successful,
very rich people who would notdescribe their life as abundant.
And so I think the key to that,whether you're making a lot of
money or not, whether you're atthe top of the organization or
(18:19):
somewhere in it, the key to anabundant life is when you wake
up every morning and say, youknow, I'm doing what I think I
was created to do.
Yeah.
And that's that's I guess as Ithink about sort of this next
season for me, that's kind ofwhat I'm gonna try to focus on.
Help people figure that out,right?
Because that's at any age, youknow, and I've had the blessing
throughout my career.
(18:39):
When I was a Marine, I felt Iwas told to be a Marine.
I woke up every morning, boy, Iwas ready to go.
Get passed over for promotion,get out, go in the corporate
world.
That was the one place that Imatter of fact, I can show you
one of the things we do athalftime when they go through
our courses, the main course,the 12-month course, is uh we
have an artist that'll create alittle uh image for you based on
(19:02):
what you've said.
And when I went through theprogram, this was mine, and it
came from a statement I saidthat when I was at EDS, I was
fairly successful, but I was Ifelt like a guy in an empty
suit.
I didn't know who I was, Ididn't know what I was, you
know, it didn't feel like mycalling, didn't feel like my
passion.
I wasn't waking up.
(19:22):
I was waking up more in themorning going, man, hope they
don't realize what a poser I am,you know.
Wow.
Then really trying to see.
When I went through theprogram, the friend of mine who
painted this said, you know, hepainted this for me because that
may have been who I was, but hethinks now I will be able to
help a lot of men and women whoare in the same place.
And that's kind of what I'mabout, right?
(19:45):
So I've been blessed that inthe Marines, finding this kind
of facilitation work that Ilove, doing it at Ernst ⁇ Young,
doing it on my own, getting todo it through halftime.
I mean, that is all stuff thatI almost can't not do it.
You know, and so it just feelsgreat.
So, so between that and myfamily and everything, the way
(20:05):
things are, I would, you know,and and there are a lot of
things in family and and in lifeyou can't control it all.
That's right.
But I would say I've had apretty abundant life.
Uh maybe not have made as muchmoney as anybody else, you know,
uh, have certainly made a tonof mistakes.
Uh have had our sent our ourshare of tragedy, right?
Our our oldest son was killedabout 15 years ago in a
(20:27):
motorcycle accident.
My goodness.
We've been through the ups anddowns, but I would still say,
like some of those guys in theBible, that it ends and says,
you know, he he led a long, fulllife.
And I gotta, you know, I haveand I want to help others do the
same now.
Dr. William Attaway (20:40):
Well, and I think that that's the mark of
what I call a catalytic leader,Tom.
Is somebody who's not justgonna be a recipient of the
lessons and the the wisdom thatcomes from going through the
years, but somebody who's gonnabe a conduit, you know, not
gonna be a reservoir justholding it all in, but instead
be a conduit so that you becomesomebody who shares with all of
(21:02):
the people around you for theirbenefit.
That's what I see in your storyand what I hear today from your
journey.
You are that conduit.
And that is a commitment thatyou have made based on how God's
created you and wired you.
There's no such thing as awasted experience, you know, and
you've leveraged thoseexperiences for the benefit of
other people.
Tom McGehee (21:23):
Well, and I want to do it even more and less
selfishly, right?
I mean, it's one thing, say, tobe a CEO and to know that
you've let people run and betheir best and do things, but in
the back of your mind, you'rethinking about every time I meet
somebody, for example, oh,could this be the next deal?
You know, what's the what's thething?
I'm trying to grow thebusiness, or you know, I'm
(21:46):
really glad you're doing well,and don't I look good because
you're doing it?
You know, rather, and I'vecertainly met my share of
leaders who are purely focusedon no, I'm about you doing good.
You know, and so more and morethat's how I want to be.
And I just think I also thinkfrom all the halftime exposure,
you know, we work withpredominantly almost exclusively
(22:08):
business leaders.
And, you know, you know, thewhole business and life kind of
spectrum, I mean, it's almostlike success and significance,
you know, and quote, quote,work-life balance and all those
kind of things.
I mean, that's a, you know,it's it's a tough thing to
figure out.
It it's hard to do in anyprofession.
I've met pastors who are justdoing all they can and their
(22:29):
families falling apart, right?
unknown (22:30):
Yeah.
Tom McGehee (22:31):
I mean, you know, you put all your time into it,
put all your effort into it.
I mean, when I was in theMarines, I I made four six-month
deployments.
I missed the birth of two kids.
You know, there were things Ihad to do, and unfortunately, I
have a very strong wife who waswho was there for me.
But when I got out of theMarines, that attitude didn't
really go away, right?
Yeah.
Either one, you know, I know Igot a kid's soccer game, but I
(22:54):
really got to go do this thingfor my business, especially when
you become an entrepreneur andit's all on you, right?
I mean, that never never shutsoff, you know.
The other and even in ministry,I I I will joke that my wife's
best ministry is that shedoesn't have one.
You are her you are herministry.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, that's a full-time gig,too, I'll tell you.
Talking about a heavy cross tobear.
(23:14):
But you know, if she's in thegrocery store and strikes up a
conversation with a woman, andthis woman needs to talk for a
while, she can stand and talk.
You know, it's real easy for meto go, you know, I'd love to
talk to you, but I got to go doministry, right?
I mean, you just get driven onthat stuff.
And so, so there's no simpleanswer, there's no cookie-cutter
answer.
Everybody's different.
(23:34):
I think if you know yourstrengths and you know how to
stay in your zone and you areable to delegate what you're not
good at to others, you're gonnafind you have more time to do
the things.
I think a lot of times leaderslose that time because one,
they're doing things that reallyare not in their gifting and so
(23:55):
not in their strength.
It's sucking away their energy,and they're probably only doing
it if they do it well, it'staking them more time than it
should, and thus they don't havetime for other things, right?
Uh, you know, that's the callburnout kind of stuff.
But if you if you know whereyour lane is, and one, you can
delegate, and two, you can trustit's gonna be done, you know,
(24:16):
and it's kind of like the oldReagan, it's trust but verify.
That's right.
Right?
Yeah, you know, but but if youcan run that way and not feel
like you have to you have toallow them the ability to say,
you know, I see how that wouldwork, even if I wouldn't have
done it that way.
And that lets you stay whereyou are, which then frees up the
most precious asset preciousasset we all have, which is
(24:37):
time.
Dr. William Attaway (24:38):
That's it.
Tom McGehee (24:39):
Yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (24:40):
You know, Tom, you you you have been on a
continual growth curve throughyour life and through your
journey.
And that's that's obvious fromwhat you shared today.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
team, your your clients, uhpeople around you are gonna need
you to have in the days ahead?
Tom McGehee (25:01):
Wow.
Um I try to keep up on reading.
Okay.
You know, a lot of readingthings.
I I will tell you that latelymy reading has much more moved
toward the area of spiritual andpersonal development and less
in the area of quote leadershipand leadership books, those kind
of things, which I used to reada ton of, right?
So there's the continualreading podcasts, looking at
(25:24):
things like that to get input,various directions, various
things.
I uh I'm working on some ideasnow around abundance, and as I
exit uh the company, I've got astack of books about that big,
and I promise myself I'm notgoing to start something or even
write something until I've kindof looked at all the research
that's there, rather than justkind of diving in.
(25:46):
That's one.
The other is at halftime wetalked about having a personal
board of advisors.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Yeah.
Tom McGehee (25:53):
You know, Peter Drucker used to say, you know,
that you need a group where youcan think your confusion out
loud.
Yes.
And and, you know, when I'mtalking to people, to two two
groups, one is sort of personalboard of advisors, a number of
halftime coaches and friends,it'll help me think through
this.
The other thing is we're at achurch, I'll be 70 this year,
(26:13):
and we're at a church and we'rein a class where we're not the
young ones, but there are anumber in their 80s.
And and I don't have a wholelot of examples of what that
next decade is going to looklike, or life in a decade from
now, right?
And so trying to do both sides,the personal director board's
all younger than I am, andthey're going to help pull me
(26:36):
into what is relevant today,what is real, what's going on in
the life of so many people thathaven't been, aren't where I
am, where I can say, you know, Idon't have to work and things
are good and I finally got towhere I want to be and all that,
all that kind of stuff.
They're pulling me into thereality of the world as I try to
shape a message or work withpeople.
And then those in that classthat are 10 or 15 years ahead of
(26:58):
me, you know, it's like, wow,okay, that's what it's going to
be like, and it's coming prettyquick, you know.
And that just helps me say,what do I need to do to get
there?
So for example, I I startedlifting weights this year.
I used to do that as a youngman, used to do it as a marine
all the time and stuff, but itlaid off, and and now I'm in the
gym three times a day.
unknown (27:19):
Wow.
Tom McGehee (27:20):
Three times a day.
I'm not in the gym at 70, I'mnot going to be in the gym at
80.
My goodness.
So so that kind of thing is uh,you know, it's just uh so so
that's probably trying to stayon top of it.
One is stay on top of where'sthe world and how can I be
relevant, and the other is stayon top of how do I prepare for
kind of my last season as itcomes up, you know.
So absolutely I do both.
Dr. William Attaway (27:42):
So as a reader, is there a a book that
you would recommend to theleaders who are listening that,
hey, this one's made a bigdifference in my journey.
And if you haven't read it, youreally should.
Tom McGehee (27:52):
Well, because of where I am, they're gonna be
more faith-oriented books.
Uh one one I would so a storeabout two years ago, I was
diagnosed with prostate cancer.
And so far I had an MRI thisweek, so the prayers are it's
all gonna look good because sofar everything looked good.
I've been treated holistically.
(28:14):
I haven't done any been onsupplements, had some blood work
infusions kind of thing.
Nice um, but I I I found outit's probably cancer, or you
know, you kind of take the test,and it was a two-week period
before I got the real answer.
And just prior to that, a guyhad given me a book by an author
named John Eldridge.
(28:34):
And Eldridge has written a lotof books.
He's a yeah, I really like him.
He's very focused on uh aperson's walk with Christ and
how he keeps clothes and thosekind of things.
But uh he wrote a book yearsago called Wild at Heart for
Men.
That was a great kind ofstirring book.
But but he wrote one rightafter COVID called Resilient.
(28:56):
And somebody handed it to meabout two weeks before I uh was
diagnosed with cancer.
And reading that book aboutbeing resilient helped me get
through not only the two weeks,but set me up for this what's
now been a two-year journey,right?
And so even though it's a veryfaith-based book, that idea for
(29:21):
a leader of resilience is reallyimportant.
And and resilience doesn't comefrom, like I said, just making
sure you kill the numbers in thefourth quarter, or uh, you
know, you're growing thecompany, you're compounded,
whatever you want it to do, orthings like that, because it's
an internal thing.
It's the difference between along sustained growth personally
(29:42):
and a curve that either youskyrocket and drop, or you or
you or you hit a wall and burnout, or or anything like that,
right?
So, right off the top of myhead, I'd recommend the book
Resilient.
There are a couple of others.
One that's a little morebusiness oriented by a real man
of faith, who's called A SacredPace.
By Terry Looper.
Terry Looper was a businessguy, made his first few million
(30:04):
bucks and had a literally anervous breakdown.
Dr. William Attaway (30:07):
Oh my goodness.
Tom McGehee (30:08):
And and you know, he's kind of on the floor
saying, God, if you you save mefrom this, I'll, you know, I'll
fix myself, whatever it is, youknow, right?
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yeah.
Tom McGehee (30:15):
And that happened, and he heard the Lord tell him
to start a company.
And he's like, Did you not seeI just had a breakdown?
Right?
I mean, you know, maybe maybeyou didn't get the full picture
here, you know.
When he started his company,uh, he had two rules when he
started it.
One was uh no sales quotas,because he said it drives people
crazy.
And two, even in startup mode,everybody only works 40 hours a
(30:39):
week.
Now that company became Texon,which is about a $7 billion
company, I think.
So I mean, that oil and gas.
I mean, grew, grew.
He just he just sold it offcompletely.
He's a merger and acquisitionkind of guru as he as he grew
the company.
But the book, Sacred Pace,really talks about how do I keep
pace, you know, when I'm ratherthan running and burning out
(31:02):
and stuff.
Dr. William Attaway (31:03):
So I think those two.
I love that.
I've never read either ofthose.
So clearly I have a bookproblem.
I need to get this.
Tom McGehee (31:11):
Thank you for that.
Dr. William Attaway (31:12):
I could talk to you for another hour.
I mean, there's so much insightthat you have gained over the
years, so much wisdom.
And I'm so grateful for yousharing so generously today.
Tom McGehee (31:21):
Well, thank you.
I uh, you know, this is a thisis a journey, a career path.
I mean, for a guy who didstrategy, I never could have
planned a career path like this.
And and you know, theexperiences of the military, of
corporate work, of partnership,of entrepreneurship, of
ministry.
Having done all of that, I'vegotten to uh and done a lot of
that around the world, not justin the U.S.
(31:42):
I've just gotten to see somuch.
Uh and and to be healthy andstrong enough, I'm hoping even
you know, in this next season,if I can be of help to anybody
and share anything with anybody,I would love to do that, right?
Because that's you're right.
I'm I'm I'm I've been blessedenough.
I'm in a season of giving back,and I really want to try to do
that however I can.
Dr. William Attaway (32:02):
Well, you've certainly done it today
with our audience, and I'm sograteful.
I know people are gonna want tostay connected to you and
continue to learn more from youand about what you're doing
next, whatever that's gonna looklike.
What's the best way for folksto connect with you, Tom?
Tom McGehee (32:17):
So probably I would keep the Tom.mcGee, and it's
M-C-G-E-H-E-E, it's likeMcGeehee, Tom.mcGee at
halftime.org.
Uh I'm gonna stay connectedwith Halftime.
I'll probably stay on as sortof a coach and where I can help.
At least for the next year.
So that would be a place youcan find you can find it on the
halftime website, halftime.org.
You can find me.
(32:37):
Uh I'll be there for a while uhuntil they write me off.
So yeah, yeah, that'd probablybe the best way for now.
LinkedIn, I'm on LinkedIn.
Perfect.
Dr. William Attaway (32:52):
We'll have all those links in the show
notes.
Tom McGehee (32:54):
Thank you.
Dr. William Attaway (32:55):
Tom, thank you.
So grateful for your timetoday.
Thanks, man.
Enjoyed it.
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