July 29, 2025 • 28 mins
When your team starts to grow, things shift — and not always in the way you expect. Bottlenecks show up where trust should be. Communication breaks down just when clarity matters most. If you're leading a digital agency that's scaling fast, the pressure isn’t just in performance — it’s in holding the culture together while everything accelerates.
This week, I’m joined by Brittany Hansen — a tech entrepreneur, co-founder of a bootstrapped SaaS company built without venture capital. Her platform solves for one of the biggest blind spots in business today: how to deliver the right message in the right way to a global, multilingual, multicultural audience.
We unpack the systems she uses to build trust, the decision to scale without outside capital, and how values-driven leadership creates teams that don’t just perform — they stay aligned under pressure. If you’ve ever wondered how to scale your team without losing your voice, your mission, or your momentum… this one’s for you.
📚 Books Mentioned
- Radical Candor by Kim Scott
- The 6MX Solution by Chase Hughes
- Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss
- Cues by Vanessa Van Edwards
You can connect with Brittany directly on LinkedIn — she welcomes conversation and is generous with her time. If her insights sparked a question or idea, reach out. She’d love to hear it.
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
- Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:
Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
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Connect with Dr. William Attaway:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. William Attaway (00:00):
It's an honor today to have Brittany
Hanson on the podcast.
Brittany is a tech entrepreneurwith a special interest in
marketing, sustainabilitystrategy and global
responsibility.
She's co-founded a SaaS companywithout venture capital,
navigating the challenges offundraising, scaling and doing
(00:20):
business in Idaho, a state justbeginning to carve out its place
in the tech world.
She's a wife and a mom, ajujitsu grappler and a lover of
all things automotive andfashion-related.
Brittany, I'm glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Brittany Hansen (00:37):
Thank you so much.
I'm incredibly excited to behere today.
Dr. William Attaway (00:42):
And I'm excited for this conversation.
I think you're going to add alot of value to our listeners
and I'm looking forward to it.
Brittany Hansen (00:47):
Me too.
Intro (00:51):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed
to help leaders intentionallygrow and thrive.
Here is your host.
Author and leadership andexecutive coach, dr William
Attaway.
Author and leadership andexecutive coach, dr William
Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:08):
I would love to start with you sharing a
little bit of your story withour listeners, Brittany,
particularly around your journeyand your development as a
leader.
How did you get started?
Brittany Hansen (01:20):
Absolutely so, probably in a way that probably
50% of your listeners canconnect with and some not so
much.
I actually got started withleadership and really learning
how to advocate for others as amom, I was home for 13 years,
(01:41):
came out of working America andI learned to advocate for my
four children, but specificallymy two oldest, who are what's
called twice exceptional, whichmeans they are gifted autistic
individuals on the spectrum.
So brilliant, brilliant kidswho struggle socially, and it
(02:01):
took me a while to figure outhow to advocate for them in a
way that didn't just make themfeel protected, because you can
advocate and make lots ofenemies as you go along.
What I was learning was how toadvocate and make friends along
the way and help people, tolearn how to also advocate for
my children on their own andhelp my children learn how to
(02:22):
advocate for themselves.
And then, about 13 years in, mysister-in-law and I were at a
zoo and we saw a tiny little boyhe must have been five or less
trying to.
We were at the zoo and therewas signage and the zookeeper
was speaking and he was tryingto serve as an interpreter for
(02:43):
his parents, who spoke Spanish,and we thought surely there has
got to be a better way of doingall of this, and it turned out
that there was not a better way,so we patented the idea, got a
very talented group ofdevelopers together and have
since moved forward indelivering information.
But if you're going to beexperts in delivering
(03:05):
information, you dang well.
Better be experts incommunication and delivering
information yourself.
That's right.
So that has been our learningexperience along the way.
It's been exciting and gruelingand wonderful, so so
fascinating.
Dr. William Attaway (03:21):
You know, there's no such thing as a
wasted experience.
I often say, and every part ofthis journey has made you into
the leader that you are now, andyou can now bring that to bear
for your clients, for yourfamily, right for everybody
around you, for their benefit,and I love that.
Where does marketing come into?
Brittany Hansen (03:41):
this?
Where does marketing come intothis?
So when we got started withthis business, I realized early
on that we were going to have agap in marketing.
When I had gone to school thefirst time, I had gone, with a
specialty in psychology, Idecided to go back for marketing
, assuming that I probablywouldn't finish in time to be
helpful to us.
And that ended up not beingtrue.
(04:03):
I started finding value rightaway, and we needed a way to
talk about ourselves and tomessage ourselves.
Marketing is a way ofdistributing information.
It's a way of understandingothers and yourself and being
able to get to the root ofthings and understand what's
most important.
So psychology actually fits inreally neatly there, as does
(04:25):
leadership, because goodmarketing isn't done by lying or
spin.
It's done by a realunderstanding of who you're
working with, and the same canbe said for leadership.
It's not done through lying ormanipulation.
It's done by understanding whoyou are and the people that
you're working with and helpingthose things to jive together in
(04:46):
such a way that everybody getsto be successful.
Dr. William Attaway (04:49):
I love that .
I would imagine that balancinghome life and professional life
is somewhat of a challenge.
Brittany Hansen (05:02):
It is.
It's a line you learn to walkand sometimes you sacrifice in
one place or the other.
So I had someone tell me oncethat it's a matter of keeping
all of the balls in the air, butknowing which of those balls
are glass and which ones areplastic.
Yes, so it has been a learningjourney, stepping out from
(05:25):
having, you know, been astay-at-home mom and just a
full-time advocate for mychildren into advocating for
what I believe are world issueslike accessibility, like
language and learning and theinformation really,
informationally.
There's a big disconnect betweenwhat is truly accessible and
(05:45):
what's just available to people.
Those are not the same thingand while walking that line has
been difficult, it's also beenincredibly rewarding for me and
it's taught me when, where andhow to use my empathy so that I
can connect with people, enablethem to do their best and then
(06:07):
step back and let them run theboth the way that I and my
co-founder work.
We have to be strong delegators, so we have to understand who
we're working with and uh, havehigh trust in our company and
let people deliver.
And and uh, as a recoveringoldest child perfectionist, that
(06:27):
was a learning curve for me tosay I'm going to trust you to
run with this and, gratefully,we have an incredible team who
has done just that.
Dr. William Attaway (06:36):
I love that .
What does it look like?
And I'm just, I'm curious, thisdistinction that you made
between availability andaccessibility.
Can you expound on that alittle bit?
Brittany Hansen (06:48):
Absolutely so what we find a lot, and not just
with language capabilities,although there's certainly part
of it.
Companies feel like, becauseinstructions or any kind of
information you might need isavailable for you, that it is
accessible.
It's not If I have cookies in acookie jar on top of my fridge.
(07:09):
Technically they are available.
Are they really accessible?
I like that.
Intro (07:15):
That's good.
Brittany Hansen (07:17):
You can't get to them easily.
You might break something, youmight hurt yourself.
It's there, but you don't knowhow to get to it and you
certainly can't use it in theway that it's supposed to be
used.
So in that way, lots ofbusinesses I mean I don't know
how many of us have gone to Ikeaand gotten home with that
massive sheet of instructionsand the pictograms, Right?
Dr. William Attaway (07:40):
Me.
Brittany Hansen (07:41):
It's available to me to know how to put this
together.
Is it truly accessible?
I don't know, because there's anawful lot of user-generated
content out there telling youhow to put together IKEA
furniture, and some of it iswrong and means that it will all
fall in on itself when I'm doneright.
How many of us have used GoogleTranslate to translate
(08:02):
something and went hmm, I betthat's not what they meant to
say when they said that.
Right, but technically, theinformation was available to you
.
We cannot make the bestdecisions without the best
information.
When we choose, as governments,as companies, as social media
(08:23):
influencers, as authors whateveryou choose when we choose to
put information out there thatis subpar or that we haven't
chosen to take the time toreally curate, we arm people
with poor information aboutourselves, which means they will
make poor decisions regardingus.
Dr. William Attaway (08:43):
That's powerful and I think it ties
into the whole marketing andcommunication piece, like how
are we going to do this in a waythat is intentional, that's
purposeful and that is going todrive people more toward being
able to understand andcomprehend exactly what we're
trying to communicate?
Brittany Hansen (09:03):
That's really solid and comprehend exactly
what we're trying to communicate.
That's really solid, thank you.
We believe so, and the morewe've traveled abroad, the more
we've really come to realizethat there is a gap.
Anybody can do a QR code thatsays here's the version of this
information in Spanish.
If it's not in the correctSpanish, it makes no difference
(09:23):
to me.
Dr. William Attaway (09:24):
Wow, that's very good.
So what does your SaaS productdo?
Brittany Hansen (09:28):
So our platform delivers any information that's
placed on the platformseamlessly and automatically in
the home language of a user'sphone.
So your phone is automatically,like you can set it, so it's in
Spanish, english, italian.
You know hundreds of languagesout there.
Typically, websites will forceyou to click, and we've found
(09:50):
that anytime there's any levelof friction right between you
and a consumer or reader, youstart to lose people at every
single click, because it meansyou don't understand them.
So if you can automaticallydetect the language of their
phone and then deliver it notonly in that language, but in
that relevancy, you change, andthe reason I say that
localization is becoming a bigthing.
(10:11):
We understand that Spanishdirectly across the border is
completely different fromSpanish further down in South
America.
We're starting to understandthat better, which is good.
The other thing that happens,though, is cultural relevancy
gets lost, which is good.
The other thing that happens,though, is cultural relevancy
gets lost.
My favorite example of this, orone that we've run into, is we
(10:32):
work with a shoe designer whoalso does business in the UAE.
Many people could help himdeliver his information in
Arabic.
The problem is that just thesame information that is for the
Italians, the Americans, theCanadians, doesn't resonate in
the UAE.
In fact, he shouldn't be usingthe same videos or pictures
(10:54):
because they are offensive inthe UAE.
So when our software finds outthat you speak Arabic, it
doesn't just change the words.
It changes the relevancy, itchanges the images, it changes
the languages, because thepeople that you're working with
understand you.
They understand that.
It's not that you need the sameinformation in Arabic.
(11:14):
It's that you need informationthat will enable you to make the
best choices.
Dr. William Attaway (11:23):
I'm just processing that.
No-transcript is going tounderstand.
That's fascinating.
Brittany Hansen (11:37):
It's, you know it's.
It's been an incredible journeyfor us.
It was something we realizedearly on.
It's like well, it's in Arabic,but this picture of a woman in
bikini doesn't work, and so wethat's.
Part of our patent is that theinformation changes based on the
user and it really provides.
(11:59):
The reason I love it is because, globally, we're not always
aware of those things.
You know, it's fine, like I putit in Spanish yeah, right.
Not make sense to the people youwant it to make sense to.
We increasingly live in a veryglobalized planet, a very where
we have to understand each otherbecause the decisions that we
(12:19):
make affect each other.
How will you do that if youdon't know how to message
yourself?
Dr. William Attaway (12:26):
That's so good.
Communication is not just words.
It goes far beyond words andwhat you're talking about is
tapping into that, to thecultural background.
You're tapping into theunderstanding of somebody as a
3D human being, not just alanguage set like Spanish or
Arabic.
It's really seeing them moreholistically.
Brittany Hansen (12:48):
Absolutely Little things, like in the
Philippines, especially if youspeak Tagalog.
They don't point like this.
That's rude.
So they gesture with their lips.
But how would you know that?
Dr. William Attaway (13:00):
How would you know that?
Yeah, right.
Brittany Hansen (13:02):
We're here to coach and help, and our product
helps you to figure out thosethings and to help you deliver,
because there's no way foreveryone to know everything
Right, so good, some of thethings I mean.
We just left Japan and while wewere there, the protocols are
wildly different than they arehere.
You're not supposed to gesturewith your hands, which meant
(13:25):
that I had to sit on my handsfor the whole thing.
There's bowing, but at theright angle there's a specific
place you are supposed to sit inthe meeting.
There's a specific way to takea business card, and all of that
is culturally relevant andsomething I would not have
thought about.
And it's not just because I'm aself-centered American although
I'm probably recovering youknow one of those as well it's
(13:47):
because I don't know.
I'm not at how.
You don't know, what you don'tknow.
Dr. William Attaway (13:51):
That's right.
Brittany Hansen (13:52):
So it starts with conversations.
It starts with knowing thatyou're not good at something and
enabling yourself to get betterat it, and that's really all
that we're trying to do is justenable people to deliver the
message they want to deliver.
Dr. William Attaway (14:07):
So how does that intersect with
authenticity?
Because I think one questionpeople may be having is wait a
minute, but I talk with my hands, but that's who I am.
How does this intersect withthat reality that people have
certain parts of them that areso key to who they are?
Brittany Hansen (14:25):
Absolutely, and to that I would say maybe it
boils down to ethics or moralityon some level.
So I love to talk with my hands, right, that's part of who I am
.
Deeper than that.
I'm very culturally sensitiveand empathetic.
So if it is deeply offensive inyour culture for me to do that,
(14:48):
or it makes you feel small orit makes you feel like I'm
dominating the room, I probablywon't do that anymore.
We see examples of that all thetime.
Like I like to dance, but if Igo to a Native American powwow,
I will probably be careful ofhow I do that, because I need to
be sensitive to who they are.
(15:08):
This is not about beinginauthentic.
This is about making yourselfadaptable, about learning,
understanding and growing andsaying you know, who am I really
versus what do I just do?
You know, it's not me to pointat someone, that's just
something I grew up withculturally Right.
Gesturing with my hands is partof how I like to speak, but if
(15:32):
it doesn't fit that moment, thenI need to know not to do it,
because more important to me isthat I'm inclusive, that I'm
loving, that I'm understanding,than that I like to talk with my
hands.
Dr. William Attaway (15:44):
What a great distinction and what a
great opportunity for leaders tounderstand that it's really not
about us right.
It's about communicating withother people and thinking what
is the best way for me to dothat in a way that they will
receive best?
It's putting them first right,and that type of servant
(16:04):
leadership, I think, issomething that is key for great,
truly catalytic leaders, and Ilove that you're bringing that
out, because I think the surfacelevel is so often to say, well,
that's just how I am and that'sthe default, the reactionary
response.
But I say, well, that's justhow I am and that's just, that's
the default, the reactionaryresponse.
But I love how you say thatlet's go deeper, let's go
underneath that.
(16:24):
What is it every leader wantsto do?
They want to make a difference.
If they're trying to becatalytic, they want to make a
difference in what they're doing, and what you're describing is
a way to do that.
But it starts with the mindsetthat you adopt when it comes to
communicating with others.
Brittany Hansen (16:39):
Absolutely, it does.
Yeah, and I think you're right.
That's who I am is a reallyeasy way of saying I don't want
to be accountable for the way Imake people feel.
Dr. William Attaway (16:49):
Wow, that's good.
I think great leaders will beand they'll resonate with that
and they'll say, okay, this is agrowth area for me.
There's some growth I need tobe thinking about here.
You know, as you have startedthis business and you know, as I
read in your bio like noventure capital, like, so you
(17:11):
started with zero.
Brittany Hansen (17:13):
Yeah, we bootstrapped in the beginning.
We bootstrapped hard and thatwas terrifying to take a step
forward and then we have endedup with investors.
But we chose not to go theventure route we never had
angels, we've never done any ofthat and not to negate the value
(17:34):
of that there are people whohave to have it, the value of
that.
There are people who have tohave it.
But gratefully, early on, andespecially my co-founder
realized if we do that we loseour voice potentially in this
company and we started as avalue-based company.
There's money to be made, butit was about value and we didn't
want that taken away.
We've been incredibly blessedto come as far as we have
(17:56):
without that kind of money andthe investors that we have had
have been chosen and careful andhow grateful we are for them as
well.
But we wanted to do it this way.
We wanted to build somethingmeaningful and I feel strongly
(18:18):
like that's what we've done andand we're continuing to try and
do that every day.
Dr. William Attaway (18:22):
I love that Talk about the value-centric
piece of that Because, you know,a lot of companies talk about
values, a lot of leaders talkabout values and leading with
values and a culture of values.
I'm sensing something a littlebit different in what you're
describing sensing something alittle bit different in what
you're describing.
Brittany Hansen (18:39):
We really try to weave our values into what
we're doing, and it's you knowit's an interesting time.
This happens always with thewaves of change come through and
something a company said Istand by this.
Like six months later it's notas profitable as they thought it
would be, and we'rerestructuring everything and
everybody gets put away.
That's performative, though.
Those are performative values,so we've worked very hard to
(19:03):
weave into our actual culturethe ideas that we believe in
Accessibility.
We're a very flat company.
Everyone, including anyoneunder me or anyone under any
other leader in our company cango onto our dashboard and see
what I'm working on at any time,and they can give me their
opinion about it at any time,because accessibility is
(19:24):
important to us.
We work in the same office withall of our staff.
We have full-on staff meetings,anyone can talk to me anytime
they would like, and we workhard to pull in people who speak
other languages and who haveother cultural beliefs so that
we can adopt other thought ideasIf everybody has a spot at the
(19:47):
table.
I think we see this a lot.
We hear everybody needs a spotat the table, and yes, they
absolutely do.
But if everybody doesn't have avoice, it does no good that
they're at the table.
A silent family dinner profitsyou nothing.
You ate, oh, that's good.
A silent family dinner profitsyou nothing.
Dr. William Attaway (20:01):
You ate.
Oh, that's good.
A silent family dinner profitsyou nothing.
That's good.
Brittany Hansen (20:06):
But if everybody is talking and
everybody's minds are open,that's where real change comes
from.
I like that.
Dr. William Attaway (20:14):
So that's really good.
Yes, so how do you encourageand draw out the voices when
sometimes people are morereticent for whatever reason,
due to the background that theyhave or whatever.
How do you encourage that astheir leader?
Brittany Hansen (20:27):
So really blessed to watch my co-founder
do a lot of this, because peoplecome into jobs with trauma from
their last job.
Their last job was amazing right, there's leftover things we
bring baggage with us wasamazing right, there's leftover
things we bring baggage with us.
Some of it is allowing peopleto speak and get things out and
make mistakes and have it bevery safe for you to make
(20:49):
mistakes, have it be safe forsomeone to say something because
they're frustrated in a meetingnot screaming right, we have
respect for each other.
But for someone to saysomething and then say wow, tell
me more about that.
It requires a level ofcuriosity that can sometimes be
very painful to have.
Wow, I see that you're sensinga breakdown.
(21:12):
Tell me what that means.
So it requires a level ofhumility.
I'm definitely still practicing, but the more people realize
they are actually safe with you,the more likely they are to
bring you a concern.
And everybody needs that,because if marketing and
everybody else is moving forwardwith something and dev is
(21:32):
saying, hey, hey, hey, wait,this is much bigger than you
think it is in a lot ofcorporations, they'll be quiet
and just try to get it done andnobody's going to know until six
months down the road that thisisn't going to be what it's
supposed to be.
So it's inviting asking,sitting in uncomfortable
silences, because sometimespeople are waiting to see if
(21:53):
someone else will say somethingor if it's really okay if they
speak up.
Pausing for 20 seconds doesn'tmake that like that's enough
time for someone to say should Isay something and go, and then
you've moved on.
So silence, asking, asking,asking and rewarding this is
(22:13):
something my co-founder, andrew,is very good at.
She'll say, oh, that is such agood thought.
I hadn't even thought aboutthat.
I think sometimes people areafraid that if you are the
leader and you didn't thinkabout it, that that means
something is wrong with you.
No, like leaders, just we'resupposed to surround ourselves
with people who are smarter thanus.
Yeah, and that's what we'vestriven to do.
(22:36):
And then when someone on a veryrare occasion, when someone
didn't fit the team, we tried tomake that decision very quickly
so that we can protect our team.
Our team is sacred to us.
It's not family you have to becareful saying that kind of
thing but our team is sacred tous because our mission is sacred
to us and they really believein our mission as well us and
(23:04):
they really believe in ourmission as well.
So open communication and valuealignment are crucially
important.
And then backing up what yousay you're going to do and when
you don't apologizing and Ilearned that as a parent, I
learned to apologize to my kidswhen I did something wrong
You'll use it at work all thetime.
If you don't apologize at work,you have a real problem.
Dr. William Attaway (23:20):
This is true.
Yeah, if you haven't, as aleader, apologized in the last
week or two, you probably missedsomething where you should have
.
Yeah, that's a key skill.
I totally agree with that,Brittany.
You have to lead at a higherlevel today than you did five
(23:40):
years ago.
The same thing is going to betrue five years from now.
As your business continues togrow and scale and your
influence increases.
You're going to have to leadyour team and your clients, your
business, in a better andhigher way.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
(24:02):
team and your clients are goingto need you to have?
Brittany Hansen (24:06):
So much of that for me is a show of will and a
show of force with myself.
I love to learn and grow, soevery couple of years I find
something new I want to beinvolved with.
You mentioned I do jujitsu.
I picked that up about threeand a half years ago because I
realized I was strategic butthat I needed better ways of
coming up with strategy, right?
(24:26):
So I threw myself into a sportwhere, by all initial accounts,
I don't belong, right.
I'm tiny and I have kind oflike a squeaky voice and like.
I used to run half marathonsand it ended up that I love it.
10 years before that, when Iturned 30, I learned to play the
harp because I I neededsomething new in my life.
(24:50):
I did yeah, I play the harp.
There's things like that allalong the way.
It's great and I do a lot toread self-improvement books, to
read business books, to takeclasses All of that's important.
But if you don't know how toimplement the things you're
learning, that's where you'regoing to struggle, and so what I
(25:10):
try hard for is things I canimmediately implement into my
life and see how they're goingto change me as a person.
I'm doing that with ChatGPTright now and other AI.
I'm trying to learn how I canuse it ethically, how I can use
it to level up so that it's nota weapon that can be used
against me, but something that Iam well-versed in and I know
(25:32):
how to use it in the right way.
So, staying open and adoptionand just pushing yourself I
think a lot of leaders arereally good at but don't push
yourself in the directions youalready know you're good at,
like that's just safe.
If I'm good at cha-cha, right,if I'm good at Latin dance and
I'm like, do you know what?
I'm going to be really braveand I'm going to try salsa, am I
(25:55):
really being brave or am Iprotecting myself?
Dr. William Attaway (25:58):
Right, brave, or am I protecting myself
?
Right, that's good.
That's good and safe.
Is not where the greatestleaders operate, and I love that
.
I'm still thinking about theharp.
I love that.
Do you still play?
Brittany Hansen (26:12):
I do, there is yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (26:13):
That's so awesome.
Brittany Hansen (26:16):
I do play.
I don't play for the originalpurpose, which I was going to do
a death doula program and helppeople transition from kind of
life to death.
But there is something that'sso calming about an instrument
you hold against you as you playand just feel it.
I love it to this day, mygoodness.
Intro (26:34):
So fantastic.
Dr. William Attaway (26:36):
I love that .
So, thinking about your journeyand I mean you are continually
learning in so many differentways, experientially, from other
people and through books andsuch Is there a book that has
made a big difference in yourjourney that you'd recommend to
the leaders who are listening?
Brittany Hansen (26:53):
Oh, there are a thousand books.
I would recommend RadicalCandor.
It can be a little hard to readbut it's excellent.
What's at the root of it, andI'm reading one right now.
If you struggle at all withreading people, which is vitally
important as a leader, there'sone that just came out called
6MX.
(27:13):
Is what is the 6MX solution?
It's the six minute x-ray thatwill help you to understand body
cues and body language, doingit in part so I can screen it
and give it to my boys whoreally struggle to read body
language.
But really interesting and agreat way to implement all the
(27:33):
things you learn from peoplelike Vanessa Van Edwards, or
what's the difference?
So cool to read about thosethings but sometimes very
difficult to implement, and thisis a great way of implementing
that knowledge.
Dr. William Attaway (27:46):
I haven't read that.
I'll have to check that out.
Thank you.
Brittany Hansen (27:48):
Of course, it's a great one.
Dr. William Attaway (27:50):
Brittany, this has been such a fantastic
conversation that I have soenjoyed.
I know people are going to wantto stay connected to you and
continue to learn more from youand more about what you're doing
.
What is the best way for themto do that?
Brittany Hansen (28:04):
The easiest way is just to find me on LinkedIn.
I'm there all the time and Iwould love to meet up with you.
You're always welcome tomessage me and I'll send you a
link and we can talk for 30minutes.
I love to hear people's ideas.
I love to hear about yourbusinesses, so please do, if you
have that thought, don'thesitate, reach out.
I'd love to hear from you.
Dr. William Attaway (28:24):
Thank you for what you're doing, thank you
for the difference that you'remaking and for being a model of
what a continually learningleader looks like.
Brittany Hansen (28:33):
Well, thank you , and for what you're doing and
the way that you're leadingpeople and making your knowledge
available to so many people.
I think it's phenomenal and I'ma big fan.
It's an honor today to have Brittany
Hanson on the podcast.
Brittany is a tech entrepreneurwith a special interest in
marketing, sustainabilitystrategy and global
responsibility.
She's co-founded a SaaS companywithout venture capital,
navigating the challenges offundraising, scaling and doing
(00:20):
business in Idaho, a state justbeginning to carve out its place
in the tech world.
She's a wife and a mom, ajujitsu grappler and a lover of
all things automotive andfashion-related.
Brittany, I'm glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Brittany Hansen (00:37):
Thank you so much.
I'm incredibly excited to behere today.
Dr. William Attaway (00:42):
And I'm excited for this conversation.
I think you're going to add alot of value to our listeners
and I'm looking forward to it.
Brittany Hansen (00:47):
Me too.
Intro (00:51):
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed
to help leaders intentionallygrow and thrive.
Here is your host.
Author and leadership andexecutive coach, dr William
Attaway.
Author and leadership andexecutive coach, dr William
Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:08):
I would love to start with you sharing a
little bit of your story withour listeners, Brittany,
particularly around your journeyand your development as a
leader.
How did you get started?
Brittany Hansen (01:20):
Absolutely so, probably in a way that probably
50% of your listeners canconnect with and some not so
much.
I actually got started withleadership and really learning
how to advocate for others as amom, I was home for 13 years,
(01:41):
came out of working America andI learned to advocate for my
four children, but specificallymy two oldest, who are what's
called twice exceptional, whichmeans they are gifted autistic
individuals on the spectrum.
So brilliant, brilliant kidswho struggle socially, and it
(02:01):
took me a while to figure outhow to advocate for them in a
way that didn't just make themfeel protected, because you can
advocate and make lots ofenemies as you go along.
What I was learning was how toadvocate and make friends along
the way and help people, tolearn how to also advocate for
my children on their own andhelp my children learn how to
(02:22):
advocate for themselves.
And then, about 13 years in, mysister-in-law and I were at a
zoo and we saw a tiny little boyhe must have been five or less
trying to.
We were at the zoo and therewas signage and the zookeeper
was speaking and he was tryingto serve as an interpreter for
(02:43):
his parents, who spoke Spanish,and we thought surely there has
got to be a better way of doingall of this, and it turned out
that there was not a better way,so we patented the idea, got a
very talented group ofdevelopers together and have
since moved forward indelivering information.
But if you're going to beexperts in delivering
(03:05):
information, you dang well.
Better be experts incommunication and delivering
information yourself.
That's right.
So that has been our learningexperience along the way.
It's been exciting and gruelingand wonderful, so so
fascinating.
Dr. William Attaway (03:21):
You know, there's no such thing as a
wasted experience.
I often say, and every part ofthis journey has made you into
the leader that you are now, andyou can now bring that to bear
for your clients, for yourfamily, right for everybody
around you, for their benefit,and I love that.
Where does marketing come into?
Brittany Hansen (03:41):
this?
Where does marketing come intothis?
So when we got started withthis business, I realized early
on that we were going to have agap in marketing.
When I had gone to school thefirst time, I had gone, with a
specialty in psychology, Idecided to go back for marketing
, assuming that I probablywouldn't finish in time to be
helpful to us.
And that ended up not beingtrue.
(04:03):
I started finding value rightaway, and we needed a way to
talk about ourselves and tomessage ourselves.
Marketing is a way ofdistributing information.
It's a way of understandingothers and yourself and being
able to get to the root ofthings and understand what's
most important.
So psychology actually fits inreally neatly there, as does
(04:25):
leadership, because goodmarketing isn't done by lying or
spin.
It's done by a realunderstanding of who you're
working with, and the same canbe said for leadership.
It's not done through lying ormanipulation.
It's done by understanding whoyou are and the people that
you're working with and helpingthose things to jive together in
(04:46):
such a way that everybody getsto be successful.
Dr. William Attaway (04:49):
I love that .
I would imagine that balancinghome life and professional life
is somewhat of a challenge.
Brittany Hansen (05:02):
It is.
It's a line you learn to walkand sometimes you sacrifice in
one place or the other.
So I had someone tell me oncethat it's a matter of keeping
all of the balls in the air, butknowing which of those balls
are glass and which ones areplastic.
Yes, so it has been a learningjourney, stepping out from
(05:25):
having, you know, been astay-at-home mom and just a
full-time advocate for mychildren into advocating for
what I believe are world issueslike accessibility, like
language and learning and theinformation really,
informationally.
There's a big disconnect betweenwhat is truly accessible and
(05:45):
what's just available to people.
Those are not the same thingand while walking that line has
been difficult, it's also beenincredibly rewarding for me and
it's taught me when, where andhow to use my empathy so that I
can connect with people, enablethem to do their best and then
(06:07):
step back and let them run theboth the way that I and my
co-founder work.
We have to be strong delegators, so we have to understand who
we're working with and uh, havehigh trust in our company and
let people deliver.
And and uh, as a recoveringoldest child perfectionist, that
(06:27):
was a learning curve for me tosay I'm going to trust you to
run with this and, gratefully,we have an incredible team who
has done just that.
Dr. William Attaway (06:36):
I love that .
What does it look like?
And I'm just, I'm curious, thisdistinction that you made
between availability andaccessibility.
Can you expound on that alittle bit?
Brittany Hansen (06:48):
Absolutely so what we find a lot, and not just
with language capabilities,although there's certainly part
of it.
Companies feel like, becauseinstructions or any kind of
information you might need isavailable for you, that it is
accessible.
It's not If I have cookies in acookie jar on top of my fridge.
(07:09):
Technically they are available.
Are they really accessible?
I like that.
Intro (07:15):
That's good.
Brittany Hansen (07:17):
You can't get to them easily.
You might break something, youmight hurt yourself.
It's there, but you don't knowhow to get to it and you
certainly can't use it in theway that it's supposed to be
used.
So in that way, lots ofbusinesses I mean I don't know
how many of us have gone to Ikeaand gotten home with that
massive sheet of instructionsand the pictograms, Right?
Dr. William Attaway (07:40):
Me.
Brittany Hansen (07:41):
It's available to me to know how to put this
together.
Is it truly accessible?
I don't know, because there's anawful lot of user-generated
content out there telling youhow to put together IKEA
furniture, and some of it iswrong and means that it will all
fall in on itself when I'm doneright.
How many of us have used GoogleTranslate to translate
(08:02):
something and went hmm, I betthat's not what they meant to
say when they said that.
Right, but technically, theinformation was available to you
.
We cannot make the bestdecisions without the best
information.
When we choose, as governments,as companies, as social media
(08:23):
influencers, as authors whateveryou choose when we choose to
put information out there thatis subpar or that we haven't
chosen to take the time toreally curate, we arm people
with poor information aboutourselves, which means they will
make poor decisions regardingus.
Dr. William Attaway (08:43):
That's powerful and I think it ties
into the whole marketing andcommunication piece, like how
are we going to do this in a waythat is intentional, that's
purposeful and that is going todrive people more toward being
able to understand andcomprehend exactly what we're
trying to communicate?
Brittany Hansen (09:03):
That's really solid and comprehend exactly
what we're trying to communicate.
That's really solid, thank you.
We believe so, and the morewe've traveled abroad, the more
we've really come to realizethat there is a gap.
Anybody can do a QR code thatsays here's the version of this
information in Spanish.
If it's not in the correctSpanish, it makes no difference
(09:23):
to me.
Dr. William Attaway (09:24):
Wow, that's very good.
So what does your SaaS productdo?
Brittany Hansen (09:28):
So our platform delivers any information that's
placed on the platformseamlessly and automatically in
the home language of a user'sphone.
So your phone is automatically,like you can set it, so it's in
Spanish, english, italian.
You know hundreds of languagesout there.
Typically, websites will forceyou to click, and we've found
(09:50):
that anytime there's any levelof friction right between you
and a consumer or reader, youstart to lose people at every
single click, because it meansyou don't understand them.
So if you can automaticallydetect the language of their
phone and then deliver it notonly in that language, but in
that relevancy, you change, andthe reason I say that
localization is becoming a bigthing.
(10:11):
We understand that Spanishdirectly across the border is
completely different fromSpanish further down in South
America.
We're starting to understandthat better, which is good.
The other thing that happens,though, is cultural relevancy
gets lost, which is good.
The other thing that happens,though, is cultural relevancy
gets lost.
My favorite example of this, orone that we've run into, is we
(10:32):
work with a shoe designer whoalso does business in the UAE.
Many people could help himdeliver his information in
Arabic.
The problem is that just thesame information that is for the
Italians, the Americans, theCanadians, doesn't resonate in
the UAE.
In fact, he shouldn't be usingthe same videos or pictures
(10:54):
because they are offensive inthe UAE.
So when our software finds outthat you speak Arabic, it
doesn't just change the words.
It changes the relevancy, itchanges the images, it changes
the languages, because thepeople that you're working with
understand you.
They understand that.
It's not that you need the sameinformation in Arabic.
(11:14):
It's that you need informationthat will enable you to make the
best choices.
Dr. William Attaway (11:23):
I'm just processing that.
No-transcript is going tounderstand.
That's fascinating.
Brittany Hansen (11:37):
It's, you know it's.
It's been an incredible journeyfor us.
It was something we realizedearly on.
It's like well, it's in Arabic,but this picture of a woman in
bikini doesn't work, and so wethat's.
Part of our patent is that theinformation changes based on the
user and it really provides.
(11:59):
The reason I love it is because, globally, we're not always
aware of those things.
You know, it's fine, like I putit in Spanish yeah, right.
Not make sense to the people youwant it to make sense to.
We increasingly live in a veryglobalized planet, a very where
we have to understand each otherbecause the decisions that we
(12:19):
make affect each other.
How will you do that if youdon't know how to message
yourself?
Dr. William Attaway (12:26):
That's so good.
Communication is not just words.
It goes far beyond words andwhat you're talking about is
tapping into that, to thecultural background.
You're tapping into theunderstanding of somebody as a
3D human being, not just alanguage set like Spanish or
Arabic.
It's really seeing them moreholistically.
Brittany Hansen (12:48):
Absolutely Little things, like in the
Philippines, especially if youspeak Tagalog.
They don't point like this.
That's rude.
So they gesture with their lips.
But how would you know that?
Dr. William Attaway (13:00):
How would you know that?
Yeah, right.
Brittany Hansen (13:02):
We're here to coach and help, and our product
helps you to figure out thosethings and to help you deliver,
because there's no way foreveryone to know everything
Right, so good, some of thethings I mean.
We just left Japan and while wewere there, the protocols are
wildly different than they arehere.
You're not supposed to gesturewith your hands, which meant
(13:25):
that I had to sit on my handsfor the whole thing.
There's bowing, but at theright angle there's a specific
place you are supposed to sit inthe meeting.
There's a specific way to takea business card, and all of that
is culturally relevant andsomething I would not have
thought about.
And it's not just because I'm aself-centered American although
I'm probably recovering youknow one of those as well it's
(13:47):
because I don't know.
I'm not at how.
You don't know, what you don'tknow.
Dr. William Attaway (13:51):
That's right.
Brittany Hansen (13:52):
So it starts with conversations.
It starts with knowing thatyou're not good at something and
enabling yourself to get betterat it, and that's really all
that we're trying to do is justenable people to deliver the
message they want to deliver.
Dr. William Attaway (14:07):
So how does that intersect with
authenticity?
Because I think one questionpeople may be having is wait a
minute, but I talk with my hands, but that's who I am.
How does this intersect withthat reality that people have
certain parts of them that areso key to who they are?
Brittany Hansen (14:25):
Absolutely, and to that I would say maybe it
boils down to ethics or moralityon some level.
So I love to talk with my hands, right, that's part of who I am
.
Deeper than that.
I'm very culturally sensitiveand empathetic.
So if it is deeply offensive inyour culture for me to do that,
(14:48):
or it makes you feel small orit makes you feel like I'm
dominating the room, I probablywon't do that anymore.
We see examples of that all thetime.
Like I like to dance, but if Igo to a Native American powwow,
I will probably be careful ofhow I do that, because I need to
be sensitive to who they are.
(15:08):
This is not about beinginauthentic.
This is about making yourselfadaptable, about learning,
understanding and growing andsaying you know, who am I really
versus what do I just do?
You know, it's not me to pointat someone, that's just
something I grew up withculturally Right.
Gesturing with my hands is partof how I like to speak, but if
(15:32):
it doesn't fit that moment, thenI need to know not to do it,
because more important to me isthat I'm inclusive, that I'm
loving, that I'm understanding,than that I like to talk with my
hands.
Dr. William Attaway (15:44):
What a great distinction and what a
great opportunity for leaders tounderstand that it's really not
about us right.
It's about communicating withother people and thinking what
is the best way for me to dothat in a way that they will
receive best?
It's putting them first right,and that type of servant
(16:04):
leadership, I think, issomething that is key for great,
truly catalytic leaders, and Ilove that you're bringing that
out, because I think the surfacelevel is so often to say, well,
that's just how I am and that'sthe default, the reactionary
response.
But I say, well, that's justhow I am and that's just, that's
the default, the reactionaryresponse.
But I love how you say thatlet's go deeper, let's go
underneath that.
(16:24):
What is it every leader wantsto do?
They want to make a difference.
If they're trying to becatalytic, they want to make a
difference in what they're doing, and what you're describing is
a way to do that.
But it starts with the mindsetthat you adopt when it comes to
communicating with others.
Brittany Hansen (16:39):
Absolutely, it does.
Yeah, and I think you're right.
That's who I am is a reallyeasy way of saying I don't want
to be accountable for the way Imake people feel.
Dr. William Attaway (16:49):
Wow, that's good.
I think great leaders will beand they'll resonate with that
and they'll say, okay, this is agrowth area for me.
There's some growth I need tobe thinking about here.
You know, as you have startedthis business and you know, as I
read in your bio like noventure capital, like, so you
(17:11):
started with zero.
Brittany Hansen (17:13):
Yeah, we bootstrapped in the beginning.
We bootstrapped hard and thatwas terrifying to take a step
forward and then we have endedup with investors.
But we chose not to go theventure route we never had
angels, we've never done any ofthat and not to negate the value
(17:34):
of that there are people whohave to have it, the value of
that.
There are people who have tohave it.
But gratefully, early on, andespecially my co-founder
realized if we do that we loseour voice potentially in this
company and we started as avalue-based company.
There's money to be made, butit was about value and we didn't
want that taken away.
We've been incredibly blessedto come as far as we have
(17:56):
without that kind of money andthe investors that we have had
have been chosen and careful andhow grateful we are for them as
well.
But we wanted to do it this way.
We wanted to build somethingmeaningful and I feel strongly
(18:18):
like that's what we've done andand we're continuing to try and
do that every day.
Dr. William Attaway (18:22):
I love that Talk about the value-centric
piece of that Because, you know,a lot of companies talk about
values, a lot of leaders talkabout values and leading with
values and a culture of values.
I'm sensing something a littlebit different in what you're
describing sensing something alittle bit different in what
you're describing.
Brittany Hansen (18:39):
We really try to weave our values into what
we're doing, and it's you knowit's an interesting time.
This happens always with thewaves of change come through and
something a company said Istand by this.
Like six months later it's notas profitable as they thought it
would be, and we'rerestructuring everything and
everybody gets put away.
That's performative, though.
Those are performative values,so we've worked very hard to
(19:03):
weave into our actual culturethe ideas that we believe in
Accessibility.
We're a very flat company.
Everyone, including anyoneunder me or anyone under any
other leader in our company cango onto our dashboard and see
what I'm working on at any time,and they can give me their
opinion about it at any time,because accessibility is
(19:24):
important to us.
We work in the same office withall of our staff.
We have full-on staff meetings,anyone can talk to me anytime
they would like, and we workhard to pull in people who speak
other languages and who haveother cultural beliefs so that
we can adopt other thought ideasIf everybody has a spot at the
(19:47):
table.
I think we see this a lot.
We hear everybody needs a spotat the table, and yes, they
absolutely do.
But if everybody doesn't have avoice, it does no good that
they're at the table.
A silent family dinner profitsyou nothing.
You ate, oh, that's good.
A silent family dinner profitsyou nothing.
Dr. William Attaway (20:01):
You ate.
Oh, that's good.
A silent family dinner profitsyou nothing.
That's good.
Brittany Hansen (20:06):
But if everybody is talking and
everybody's minds are open,that's where real change comes
from.
I like that.
Dr. William Attaway (20:14):
So that's really good.
Yes, so how do you encourageand draw out the voices when
sometimes people are morereticent for whatever reason,
due to the background that theyhave or whatever.
How do you encourage that astheir leader?
Brittany Hansen (20:27):
So really blessed to watch my co-founder
do a lot of this, because peoplecome into jobs with trauma from
their last job.
Their last job was amazing right, there's leftover things we
bring baggage with us wasamazing right, there's leftover
things we bring baggage with us.
Some of it is allowing peopleto speak and get things out and
make mistakes and have it bevery safe for you to make
(20:49):
mistakes, have it be safe forsomeone to say something because
they're frustrated in a meetingnot screaming right, we have
respect for each other.
But for someone to saysomething and then say wow, tell
me more about that.
It requires a level ofcuriosity that can sometimes be
very painful to have.
Wow, I see that you're sensinga breakdown.
(21:12):
Tell me what that means.
So it requires a level ofhumility.
I'm definitely still practicing, but the more people realize
they are actually safe with you,the more likely they are to
bring you a concern.
And everybody needs that,because if marketing and
everybody else is moving forwardwith something and dev is
(21:32):
saying, hey, hey, hey, wait,this is much bigger than you
think it is in a lot ofcorporations, they'll be quiet
and just try to get it done andnobody's going to know until six
months down the road that thisisn't going to be what it's
supposed to be.
So it's inviting asking,sitting in uncomfortable
silences, because sometimespeople are waiting to see if
(21:53):
someone else will say somethingor if it's really okay if they
speak up.
Pausing for 20 seconds doesn'tmake that like that's enough
time for someone to say should Isay something and go, and then
you've moved on.
So silence, asking, asking,asking and rewarding this is
(22:13):
something my co-founder, andrew,is very good at.
She'll say, oh, that is such agood thought.
I hadn't even thought aboutthat.
I think sometimes people areafraid that if you are the
leader and you didn't thinkabout it, that that means
something is wrong with you.
No, like leaders, just we'resupposed to surround ourselves
with people who are smarter thanus.
Yeah, and that's what we'vestriven to do.
(22:36):
And then when someone on a veryrare occasion, when someone
didn't fit the team, we tried tomake that decision very quickly
so that we can protect our team.
Our team is sacred to us.
It's not family you have to becareful saying that kind of
thing but our team is sacred tous because our mission is sacred
to us and they really believein our mission as well us and
(23:04):
they really believe in ourmission as well.
So open communication and valuealignment are crucially
important.
And then backing up what yousay you're going to do and when
you don't apologizing and Ilearned that as a parent, I
learned to apologize to my kidswhen I did something wrong
You'll use it at work all thetime.
If you don't apologize at work,you have a real problem.
Dr. William Attaway (23:20):
This is true.
Yeah, if you haven't, as aleader, apologized in the last
week or two, you probably missedsomething where you should have
.
Yeah, that's a key skill.
I totally agree with that,Brittany.
You have to lead at a higherlevel today than you did five
(23:40):
years ago.
The same thing is going to betrue five years from now.
As your business continues togrow and scale and your
influence increases.
You're going to have to leadyour team and your clients, your
business, in a better andhigher way.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
(24:02):
team and your clients are goingto need you to have?
Brittany Hansen (24:06):
So much of that for me is a show of will and a
show of force with myself.
I love to learn and grow, soevery couple of years I find
something new I want to beinvolved with.
You mentioned I do jujitsu.
I picked that up about threeand a half years ago because I
realized I was strategic butthat I needed better ways of
coming up with strategy, right?
(24:26):
So I threw myself into a sportwhere, by all initial accounts,
I don't belong, right.
I'm tiny and I have kind oflike a squeaky voice and like.
I used to run half marathonsand it ended up that I love it.
10 years before that, when Iturned 30, I learned to play the
harp because I I neededsomething new in my life.
(24:50):
I did yeah, I play the harp.
There's things like that allalong the way.
It's great and I do a lot toread self-improvement books, to
read business books, to takeclasses All of that's important.
But if you don't know how toimplement the things you're
learning, that's where you'regoing to struggle, and so what I
(25:10):
try hard for is things I canimmediately implement into my
life and see how they're goingto change me as a person.
I'm doing that with ChatGPTright now and other AI.
I'm trying to learn how I canuse it ethically, how I can use
it to level up so that it's nota weapon that can be used
against me, but something that Iam well-versed in and I know
(25:32):
how to use it in the right way.
So, staying open and adoptionand just pushing yourself I
think a lot of leaders arereally good at but don't push
yourself in the directions youalready know you're good at,
like that's just safe.
If I'm good at cha-cha, right,if I'm good at Latin dance and
I'm like, do you know what?
I'm going to be really braveand I'm going to try salsa, am I
(25:55):
really being brave or am Iprotecting myself?
Dr. William Attaway (25:58):
Right, brave, or am I protecting myself
?
Right, that's good.
That's good and safe.
Is not where the greatestleaders operate, and I love that
.
I'm still thinking about theharp.
I love that.
Do you still play?
Brittany Hansen (26:12):
I do, there is yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (26:13):
That's so awesome.
Brittany Hansen (26:16):
I do play.
I don't play for the originalpurpose, which I was going to do
a death doula program and helppeople transition from kind of
life to death.
But there is something that'sso calming about an instrument
you hold against you as you playand just feel it.
I love it to this day, mygoodness.
Intro (26:34):
So fantastic.
Dr. William Attaway (26:36):
I love that .
So, thinking about your journeyand I mean you are continually
learning in so many differentways, experientially, from other
people and through books andsuch Is there a book that has
made a big difference in yourjourney that you'd recommend to
the leaders who are listening?
Brittany Hansen (26:53):
Oh, there are a thousand books.
I would recommend RadicalCandor.
It can be a little hard to readbut it's excellent.
What's at the root of it, andI'm reading one right now.
If you struggle at all withreading people, which is vitally
important as a leader, there'sone that just came out called
6MX.
(27:13):
Is what is the 6MX solution?
It's the six minute x-ray thatwill help you to understand body
cues and body language, doingit in part so I can screen it
and give it to my boys whoreally struggle to read body
language.
But really interesting and agreat way to implement all the
(27:33):
things you learn from peoplelike Vanessa Van Edwards, or
what's the difference?
So cool to read about thosethings but sometimes very
difficult to implement, and thisis a great way of implementing
that knowledge.
Dr. William Attaway (27:46):
I haven't read that.
I'll have to check that out.
Thank you.
Brittany Hansen (27:48):
Of course, it's a great one.
Dr. William Attaway (27:50):
Brittany, this has been such a fantastic
conversation that I have soenjoyed.
I know people are going to wantto stay connected to you and
continue to learn more from youand more about what you're doing
.
What is the best way for themto do that?
Brittany Hansen (28:04):
The easiest way is just to find me on LinkedIn.
I'm there all the time and Iwould love to meet up with you.
You're always welcome tomessage me and I'll send you a
link and we can talk for 30minutes.
I love to hear people's ideas.
I love to hear about yourbusinesses, so please do, if you
have that thought, don'thesitate, reach out.
I'd love to hear from you.
Dr. William Attaway (28:24):
Thank you for what you're doing, thank you
for the difference that you'remaking and for being a model of
what a continually learningleader looks like.
Brittany Hansen (28:33):
Well, thank you , and for what you're doing and
the way that you're leadingpeople and making your knowledge
available to so many people.
I think it's phenomenal and I'ma big fan.
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