October 7, 2025 • 42 mins
When you’ve poured months into a book, a campaign, or a launch, the last thing you want is to see it fade into the noise. But that’s exactly what happens when we rely on short-term thinking instead of building systems for long-term brand growth.
In this episode, I sit down with Marika Flatt, founder of PR by the Book, who has spent more than two decades helping authors, entrepreneurs, and leaders amplify their message with sustainable visibility. Marika shares why “hope is not a strategy,” how to avoid costly mistakes that kill momentum, and what it takes to keep your work from sitting on the digital shelf unnoticed.
We dig into practical publicity strategies, time-tested PR systems, and the leadership shifts that allow you to delegate with confidence and scale without burning out. If you’re building a 7-figure agency and want clarity on how to fuel long-term visibility without chasing hacks, this episode is for you.
Books Mentioned
- The Little Engine That Could by Watty Piper
- Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara
To learn more from Marika and her team, visit prbythebook.com for full-service PR support, or explore the DIY resources at authortoinfluencer.com. You can also find PR by the Book on every major social media platform.
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
- Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:
Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
- Special Offer:
Get your FREE copy of Catalytic Leadership: 12 Keys to Becoming an Intentional Leader Who Makes a Difference.
Connect with Dr. William Attaway:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. William Attaway (00:00):
It is a joy today to have Marika Flatt on
the podcast.
Marika is a seasoned bookpublicist and the founder of PR
by the Book.
After starting her career inthe late 90s as a young, smiling
and dialing publicist, shequickly rose through the ranks
of a boutique literary PR firmbefore launching her own company
(00:20):
in 2002.
For over two decades, marikahas championed authors, built
lasting media relationships andadapted to the ever-changing
world of book promotion withintegrity and creativity.
Beyond PR, she's a traveleditor for Texas Lifestyle
magazine and a regular on TexasTV sharing travel stories.
(00:43):
Her passion for connectingpeople to powerful stories
continues to shape thepublishing industry today.
Marika, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Marika Flatt (00:55):
So happy to be here, William.
I love your podcast and I'm aregular listener, so this is a
thrill.
Dr. William Attaway (01:02):
It is for me as well.
I've been looking forward tothis one, so this is a thrill.
Well, it is for me as well.
Intro (01:06):
I've been looking forward to this one.
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help
leaders intentionally grow andthrive.
Here is your host, author andleadership and executive coach,
Dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:25):
I would love to start with you sharing a
little bit of your story withour listeners, particularly
around your journey in yourdevelopment as a leader.
Marika, how did you get started?
Marika Flatt (01:35):
So I really cut my teeth doing internships in TV
when I was in college and Ireally was on that path to
wanting to go the TV route.
And when I graduated fromcollege I landed in the industry
of book publicity and it waskind of a funny thing because I
ended up writing an articlecalled what is a Book Publicist
(01:56):
early on in my career and ittook off and people loved that
article.
Nobody really knew what a bookpublicist did at that time and I
always say that my extendedfamily always thought I was a
book publisher for the longesttime.
Oh what are you publishingthese days?
And I would have to say well,actually, you know, we handle
the media relations after thebook comes out.
(02:17):
We do not publish the books.
So it was kind of thateducation of even my extended
family trying to figure out whata book publicist is.
As someone who grew up, youknow, curled up with a good book
in the corner of my bed, justreading a novel, just loving the
joy of reading, and then beingable to pair that with media
(02:40):
that I loved so much I mean thatwas my track in college Book
publicity just became theperfect industry for me and I
think we can say that now I'vebeen in this business 28 years
total, so 23 for PR by the book.
But you know, as you mentioned,I got into it with another
(03:03):
small company and you know I'mso grateful and thankful to my
first boss, annie Phoenix.
She is still a dear friend tome.
She's no longer in bookpublicity but you know she took
me under her wing in a reallysmall company, taught me
everything she knew and put aton of faith in me to lead that
company in my 20s, which makesme laugh now.
(03:26):
But when you say how did youdevelop leadership?
Part of it early on was kind ofsink or swim.
I was in a small company whereyou had to do a little bit of
everything and Annie put so muchfaith in me that when she was
ready to kind of take a littlebit of time and step away, she
(03:47):
put me in that position and Ihave to say I made a lot of
mistakes in that first job.
I believe that I had inherentleadership skills but they
needed to be trained anddeveloped and so she actually
hired a business coach for mebefore she stepped away from the
(04:07):
business and that really helpedme a great deal, working
one-on-one with that businesscoach, and then I just became a
continual learner and to thisday, you know I am, I value
continuing education so muchthat I just tried to put in the
(04:29):
work.
You know, I read articles, Iread books.
Later on in my career, whenpodcasts like yours became a
thing, you know I make time forthat.
And so I would say that Ibecame a leader.
You know, in a hard fought way,that I really I had to learn
(04:51):
very early on in my 20s what wasmissing, you know, and I
couldn't just absorb theleadership styles that were
around me because those weren'tnecessarily the right ways to
lead.
And so you know, I don't thinkabout it that often.
(05:12):
So thank you for asking thisquestion.
But you know, I really feelproud of that journey.
You know, these last two plusdecades of learning what it
takes to be a leader, and youknow I still slip, I still make
mistakes, but you know I just Itry to keep all those plates
spinning, you know, and one ofthose plates is making sure that
(05:35):
I'm leading in a way that ourteam can respond to.
And so, yeah, that's a long,roundabout answer, but I mean
that's kind of what it answer,but kind of nebulous.
But I mean, that's kind of whatit is when you're learning at
an early age and then startingyour own business 100%.
Dr. William Attaway (05:53):
You know.
I love that you shared thestory about Annie.
I think that's so helpful.
It is so easy for, I think, anyentrepreneur to see potential
sometimes in their team members,and yet so difficult to hand
them not just responsibility fortasks but authority.
Giving somebody responsibilityand authority, that's true
(06:15):
delegation.
That is how you empower andbuild up a leader, and that's
what she did with you.
It sounds like I can imaginethat was not the easiest thing
in the world for her.
Marika Flatt (06:26):
No, it probably wasn't, and I think that's why
she'll always have such aspecial place in my heart,
because she believed in me fromday one.
I mean, I literally was onemonth out of graduating college
when I went in for thatinterview.
Dr. William Attaway (06:42):
She hired me on the spot when I went in
for that interview.
Marika Flatt (06:43):
She hired me on the spot and then we worked
really well side by side as longas she stayed in the business
and she eventually ended upselling that company to some
other people and I stayed for alittle while under that
leadership but then knew that itwas time for me to go out on my
own.
Dr. William Attaway (07:02):
Goodness and you know I think sometimes
that's a fear for a leader isthat if they pour into and
invest in somebody else, thatthat person will eventually
leave.
You know, it's like we have inour heads that everybody who's
with me now they'll be with meforever, when the reality is
that's just not the case.
That is not the case for thevast majority of the people that
(07:22):
we're going to lead.
They're going to be with us fora season.
Right, you know, andunderstanding that, I think, is
so critical.
Yeah, has that been somethingthat you have carried forward
into your business with theteams that you lead?
Marika Flatt (07:36):
I will latch on to my 20-something-year-old
publicist and really want tomentor them, because I see so
much of myself in some of themand it really inspires me to put
in some extra time andnurturing into them, because I
see I see the the real baseinstincts of a great book
(08:03):
publicist in them and I want toreally nurture that in a way
that allows them to continue togrow.
And you know, we, pr by thebook, is a bigger team than that
company was.
You know, for a long time thatcompany was only three people,
until we started growing it, andwe're a bigger team than that.
(08:24):
So I probably don't have asmany opportunities to just
completely hand something off tothose young publicists, but I
do hand off things that they canown and oversee.
So, whether it's, you know,something like, we built our
(08:47):
author to influencer program in2019 and launched it in 2020.
And that's basically our giveback to the literary community.
It's kind of a DIY program thatwe developed where there's a
lot of workshops in there.
There's something like 70workshops that I created.
(09:08):
So I'm in every single video andonce we got that up and running
, I was able to hand that off toone of our younger people and
she runs that now because it'snow, because it's it's it.
(09:28):
We're not creating new tapedsessions necessarily, we just do
monthly education and she doesthose interviews.
So that's an example ofsomething that you know, that's
something she can own and do,and she knows that I'm here if
she ever needs me to, to comeback in.
And and then we have anotherprogram that I was able to hand
off to another one of ourassistant publicists, called
Next Level PR, which is it's aprogram that's very budget
(09:52):
conscious for someone who wantsto extend a campaign on a very
minimal level, and she's thepublicist that oversees that.
So, again, able to say this isyours, own it, love it, take
care of it, nurture it, let meknow when you need help with it.
And so I do try to find thosetypes of programs within PR by
(10:13):
the book to assign to youngerpeople and let them, let them
oversee them and grow them andmake some decisions on their own
with that decisions on theirown with that.
Dr. William Attaway (10:27):
I love the intentionality of that.
You know of looking for thingsthat you can use to build up
leaders, to build up teammembers.
I think that's so important.
Going back just a little bit,you mentioned that your extended
family were not completelyclear on what a publicist was.
I imagine some of our listenersmight not be as well.
Could you explain what you doat PR by the Book on the high
(10:47):
30,000 foot view of what you doand how this benefits the
authors that you work with?
Marika Flatt (11:31):
no-transcript out about the book, because if they
don't, as I say, it's going tosit there on the proverbial
online shelf and nobody's goingto know that it exists.
So they hire us to get the wordout about their book and most
times it's around the launch ofthe book, so pub date,
(11:53):
publication date.
However, we have worked onprojects where somebody released
a book, for whatever reason.
They didn't do any publicityaround it and they know that
they need to promote it, give itanother life, in order to build
up that piece of their brandand maybe take their brand to
the next level.
They need to build up theirname recognition and sometimes,
(12:17):
as you know, the book is part oftheir business, so it might be
a calling card because maybethey want to build up their
speaking career, maybe theyhybrid published this time and
they would like to be able toland an agent in the future to
traditionally publish books inthe future.
So when authors come to us,they have a wide variety of
(12:39):
goals and that's something Ilike to discuss with them in
that introductory free discoverycall that I do with them is
what do you want to get out ofpromoting this book?
And it could be any of thosethings that I just said.
It could also be book sales andI always say to people you know,
we don't measure our successthrough book sales because
(13:01):
there's too many variables thatwe don't have control over
Distribution and sales.
You know, how good does anauthor do when we get them on an
interview?
Do they say the name of thebook enough?
And you know, I'll listen to,especially podcasts that our
clients do, and I'll go back tothem with a couple of tips.
And usually my number one tipfor them is you never said the
(13:24):
title of your book.
You said when I wrote my book,you know when I was researching
my book, and so I tell them, youknow, say when I wrote Dear
Dana, you know I did this.
Or say you know it was a longprocess to put together the
Power of who and when I did thatyou know.
(13:46):
So they can merge and blendthat book title in.
But that could be a reason whyan interview results in sales,
or doesn't, you know?
Because maybe the listenerreally loved what that expert
said, but they only heard thebook title at the very end and
they were just busy writingnotes of what they learned and
(14:09):
then they didn't realize whatthe book was, to go buy it.
So I always tell authors wemeasure our success through
media exposure, and that's thename of the game, that's our
lane, that's what we live andbreathe, those are the
relationships we have.
So we're measuring, we'relooking at that media exposure
report and at the end of everymonth okay, are we where we want
(14:32):
to be?
Do we need to pivot a littlebit?
Do we need to use a differenthook and angle?
That's more timely?
And so we're constantly lookingat those things and we're not
looking at book sales.
That's up to them.
They can keep their finger onthe pulse of that with their
publisher, or if they'reself-publishing, they are their
(14:52):
own publisher.
I mean, that's the essence ofself-publishing, and so we
encourage them.
You know you do that.
You can track your book sales.
We're going to track the mediaexposure that we land for an
author and, like I said,sometimes publishers will hire.
We have a lot of greatrelationships with publishing
houses where if they've got areally big book that they need
(15:13):
some help with in a season,they'll assign it to us.
Or maybe they just have areally busy season and they need
help on a couple of books, andso you know, we have those good
ongoing relationships withpublishing houses as well, and
it has been 23 years, so most ofour clients come to us either
through repeat business or wordof mouth, and we like it that
(15:35):
way because we love thoselong-term relationships.
Dr. William Attaway (15:39):
I love that and I think there's such value
in hiring an expert like you todo this.
You know, I talk to a lot ofpeople who are writing a book or
writing a second book orwhatever, and they're like, yeah
, I'm just doing it myself.
I'm like what's your plan,what's your strategy?
Right, and so often it's well,you know we'll put it up on
Amazon and you know people willfind it.
(16:01):
That's hope, and hope is not astrategy.
Careful there.
Marika Flatt (16:07):
Hope is good in certain situations, but not
necessarily when it comes tobook publicity exactly one of
the things I often tell them.
Dr. William Attaway (16:15):
When we did my last book, I went on a
podcast book tour and I was onabout 85 shows that year talking
about the book, and now I'mscared to go back and listen to
see how many times I said thetitle of the book.
I'm like, oh man, did I, did Isay it enough, you know?
But that's such a simple,actionable piece of advice.
I I love that.
Marika Flatt (16:35):
Yeah, and.
Dr. William Attaway (16:36):
I hope our listeners, wherever they are in
this journey, are saying, ohyeah, okay, that's important,
Don't lose that.
Marika Flatt (16:42):
Right, you know jot that down.
Dr. William Attaway (16:44):
That's so critical, right?
What other mistakes do you seeauthors make as they are
stepping into this journey?
Marika Flatt (16:51):
Yeah.
So one of the mistakes thatdoesn't have anything to do with
media training like the lastone kind of falls in the media
training category.
But one of the mistakes thatdoesn't have anything to do with
media training like the lastone kind of falls in the media
training category.
But one of the mistakes is whenthey think that they're going
to just shoot for the starsright away and they just want
top tier media outlets.
And I'm very honest and verytransparent with authors in that
(17:13):
discovery meeting to you know,I've prepped for the meeting, so
I know what their book is, Iknow a little bit about their
project and I'm very honest withsetting those expectations of
what media they are appropriatefor.
And they might just be startingout and this might be a debut
book for them and they mighthave a little bit of a following
(17:34):
on social media, but this istheir first book.
And so I prepare them and say,listen, we're going to start
with your local and regionalmedia because we need to get
some clips that we can embed inour pitch to bigger media,
because bigger media is going towant to know that you can
handle yourself, whether it bein front of a camera or just in
(17:54):
front of a microphone.
They need to know that you cancarry yourself.
So we're going to start withyour local press and you need to
really appreciate thoseopportunities, because you can't
just look at that as, as youknow, oh well, that's my local
tv station.
No embrace that, you know.
I mean, get excited about that,and so that's one thing.
(18:16):
Another thing would be if theyfeel like they're too busy to do
what's needed for some outlets.
So what I mean by that is youknow, there's some really great
online digital publications outthere that want to do a Q&A with
an author.
So they want to send over,let's just say, 10 interview
(18:36):
questions and have the authoranswer those and have them be
original.
And so you know, here's anothertip I tell authors get your
iPhone, open up your notes appvoice in your answers to those
questions, send them to yourselfvia email, put them into a
(18:56):
Google Doc and clean them up,and that is the quickest,
easiest way, because then also,you're just speaking it, you're
very authentic when you'reanswering those questions.
And now, greg, don't just sendthat straight version, because
it's going to need some editing,because I do that myself, you
know, for different things,especially you mentioned the
travel writing.
I'll do that, for my firstdraft is I'll just open up that
(19:23):
notes app and I'll just voice inthe highlights of you know,
like you're my friend If you sayto me, mariko, what is your
favorite place in the FloridaKeys?
And I just want to tell you allabout my pick and why.
I'm just going to voice it inlike that and just tell you.
Here's why you need to go tosuch and such place.
And then, of course, I'll putthat in the google doc and clean
(19:44):
it up as the next draft, and itprobably goes through three
drafts.
But you know, that's just aneasy way for an author to
provide what that media outletis looking for and it really
doesn't take that much time.
So you and I could talk aboutthis all day.
I don't want to use up all ofour time going and talking about
the mistakes that I see, butyou know that's we just have to.
(20:07):
You know our clients hire usbecause we're experts in this
field you mentioned that earlierand we want them to take our
advice and know that we're notgoing to steer them wrong.
We're not going to put them ona media outlet that's not
appropriate for their messaging,but we're going to find the
outlets that we believe you knowhave an audience that needs to
(20:28):
hear their messaging, andsometimes it might take a little
work or effort or time on theirpart, but you know they need to
be ready for that.
You said you did 85 podcastinterviews.
That took a good chunk of yourtime.
That year.
Dr. William Attaway (20:44):
Yeah, it did, but it was worth it.
You know, because of therelationships that I built, the
networking that I was able to do, even with those podcast hosts
that then turned into otherthings.
You know, not to mention thereach Right, because when you're
guesting on other people'splatforms whether it's media,
whether it's podcast, whateveryou're leveraging their audience
Right Without you having tobuild it.
Marika Flatt (21:06):
Yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (21:06):
They're inviting you into their system.
Marika Flatt (21:09):
Yes, I love that I can't tell you how many times
I'm talking to an author in thatinitial discovery meeting and
they'll say I just loved hearingyou on that publishing podcast.
You know, so I've done podcastswith, let's just say we as an
example, we've got some hybridpublishers that we've worked
with for years and we're kind ofin their top three book
(21:33):
publicist recommendations whenthey give it to their authors
because they don't providepublicity in-house.
And so you know, I people willsay I loved that interview that
you did with Greenleaf, you know, and it was maybe like five
years ago and they're stillfinding it and they're still
listening and getting a lot ofgood information out of it.
(21:55):
And so, yeah, I mean those comeback around for sure for us.
And you know, pr by the book isout there on the line in the
World Wide Web, because I'vebeen doing those types of things
for over two decades in oneform or fashion.
Dr. William Attaway (22:11):
Well, you know I often say that you know
you hire a coach when you wantto go farther than you can go on
your own and you want to getthere faster you know, because
they're going to bring theirknowledge base to bear.
That's what y'all do.
Y'all are bringing yourknowledge base of decades of
experience to bear for yourauthors or for the publishers
Say, hey, we're going to helpyou go farther and get there
(22:34):
faster.
We want to help you take thatshortcut that we can see, and
it's hard to see the wholepicture when you're in the frame
.
You know, you guys are on theoutside, you can see the entire
picture.
You can say, hey, wait a minute, you probably haven't seen this
, but we have Let us help you.
Yes, I think that's so needed.
Marika Flatt (22:53):
One of my very first authors that I worked with
as a baby book publicist in thelate 90s, who ended up being a
bestselling author.
His name is Roy Williams andhe's an advertising guru and he
I still use one of his quotesthat he says you can't read the
label from inside the bottle.
And I credit him for that.
But I love that quote becauseyou know whether it's I'm trying
(23:18):
to write a pitch or I'm tryingto write my own bio or you know
any of those things.
It's so hard to see the bigpicture from inside the bottle
because you, as the author, yeah, you're in there and you know
that book backwards and forwardsand that is your baby and you
(23:38):
know that content and you willknow that content better than
any book publicist.
But that's different thanknowing how to package it for
media outlets to be able to payattention and utilize it.
Dr. William Attaway (23:51):
So, so good , and that's why you have
resources like the Author toInfluencer you know this DIY
program that you give me Sevenplus resources inside.
I mean that's crazy yeah.
Marika Flatt (24:08):
Like the time that it took to pour all that in Wow
, month, maybe a year and a halfperiod of time where I just
thought, okay, because by thatpoint I had been in the business
20 years not PR by the book,hadn't been around for 20 years,
but I've been in the businessfor 20 years and I just thought
(24:28):
what do authors need to know?
You know, and who can I pull into talk about this that knows
more about that topic than I do?
Those were the interviews.
So, for instance, that could bethe importance of good book
cover design, for instance.
So a lot of them were meinterviewing an expert in a
category related to book or youknow how to get something done.
(24:50):
But if it had to do withpublicity and promotion, I was
teaching on, like how to write agreat press pack or how to how
to um, I did a media trainingseries so how to do a great
interview.
So it was a combination of thetwo Either I was teaching a
course or I was interviewingsomebody that could talk about a
(25:13):
topic outside of just strictbook publicity.
So, yeah, that was.
I call it our nonprofit becauseI just feel like that about that
program that you know it's not.
It's not what we're out theremaking a living on, but it is a
resource that authors can tapinto and it's extremely
(25:33):
inexpensive can tap into andit's extremely inexpensive.
And that's what I tell people.
You can't hire a book publicistbecause not everybody can.
You know it's an investment.
So if you can't invest in abook publicist, go on to
authortoinfluencercom and learnhow to do what you can do
yourself.
And we do have a member benefitin there that if somebody goes
(25:57):
through the program and theythink, okay, there's just like
these three or four things, Ijust I can't do them myself, I
need help, Then they can getinto a block of time, like an
hourly block of time, where wecan define okay, this person
needs help with these threethings, these five things.
And we can help them.
You know, on an hourly basis.
(26:19):
Blocks.
Dr. William Attaway (26:20):
That's good .
Marika Flatt (26:21):
So they're not stuck out there, you know, on
the boat in the middle of theocean all on their own, oh, and
they can get into a privateFacebook group for the author to
influencer, where they can usethat as a resource.
Their fellow authors are inthere.
They can ask a question.
Dr. William Attaway (26:39):
We go in there literally the day of and
answer a question that's so good, so many resources that you are
using and differentmethodologies that you're using
to equip, to empower theseauthors to get their message out
right, to put this thing thatthey have, that they believe so
strongly in, out into the worldto most people so people can
actually see it right.
Marika Flatt (27:00):
I love that yeah, well, it's not one size fits all
you know no, it can't be.
Dr. William Attaway (27:06):
That's exactly right.
I love that yeah I want to askyou this you know you have to
lead at a different level todaythan you did back in the days
when you were working forsomebody else, you know, or when
you started your company, andthe same thing is going to be
true five years from now.
You have continued to level upand you're going to have to
continue to do that, becauseyour clients and your team are
(27:29):
going to need more from you.
They're going to ask more fromyou.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
clients and your team are goingto need you to have in the days
to come?
Marika Flatt (27:44):
So I love that question, william, because the
first answer would be that, wellbefore I met you, um five years
ago, um, we started workingwith a business coach, and I
heartily recommend that for anybusiness, because it's almost
like I'm sorry, four years ago,not five years ago it was the
(28:09):
very end of 2021.
When we started working withthat coach, it was like we here
again, you can't read the labelfrom inside the bottle, right?
It was like my husband and I werun PR by the book together.
We had taken PR by the book asfar as we could in our being in
the container and not seeing thelabel from outside the bottle.
(28:32):
We had done all that we couldin terms of our innovation at
the time, and so I just can'tsay enough about the importance
of hiring a business coach andhaving that longevity, because
we are about to wrap up fouryears and that program and that
(28:52):
coach was able to continually tocontinually help us innovate,
and so that's one thing.
And then the other thing isthat I am just a major, major
fan of continuing education.
I spend a decent amount of mywork week every week listening
to podcasts, reading articles,reading nonfiction, and if I go
(29:15):
out and do a walk, because I tryto get moving a little bit five
or six days a week.
I'm either listening to apodcast and, let me tell you,
even if I'm going out for a walk, I have a piece of paper and a
pen with me, because if I'mlistening to your podcast, for
example, I'll just get likeideas just shooting in my head
(29:37):
and I write them down straightaway, because I don't want to,
you know, think I'll get backfrom my 45 minute walk and then
I'll write something down.
No, I'm writing it down rightaway and then, yeah, I just I
start my morning routine.
I have a very specific morningroutine.
So after I get myself ready, Iget my cup of coffee, I have a
(29:57):
chair in the front room of myhouse.
It's very calm and peaceful, Ihave some pretty little lights
in that room and I spend aboutthe first hour reading things.
Whether it be so, I love, love,love my little book, morning
Fuel that sits by my desk.
It's well, it's not a desk,it's a little chair and a table
(30:19):
and it's one quick littlepassage that I read each morning
and then I might journal alittle bit, and then I'm reading
news of the day.
I have two news aggregates thatI read every morning real quick
, and then I'll read an articleor two that has come through
that.
You know, I'm not going to takethe time during my workday once
I get behind my computer toread an article, so I'm going to
(30:41):
save it in my inbox and thenI'm going to go back and when I
have that, one hour before I goto my computer, I'm in the
kitchen by myself cooking dinner, I'm listening to one If I am,
(31:01):
you know, having to commutesomewhere, let's say, you know,
downtown Austin, and I've got 30, 45 minutes, that's enough time
for a webinar or a podcast.
And so I'm constantly,constantly educating myself in
that way, because things arechanging all the time and, like
you referenced, we have tocontinue to innovate, we have to
(31:21):
continue to grow, we have tocontinue to learn.
The only constant in smallbusiness is change.
Dr. William Attaway (31:28):
That's right.
Marika Flatt (31:29):
We just, and we have to model that for our teams
too.
Dr. William Attaway (31:32):
Yeah, that's so well said.
I love the intentionality thatyou pour into this that you
don't expect one day you're justgoing to have all the time you
need to learn and grow.
No, you're going to make ithappen and it's a daily rhythm
for you and, I hope, ourlisteners.
If they are not in the habit ofdoing something similar to that
, they would make a commitment.
(31:52):
You can do this.
You're in charge, right?
Don't let what you can't dostop you from doing what you can
.
Oh, I don't have an hour.
Okay, great, take 15 minutes.
Something is better thannothing.
Marika Flatt (32:07):
Don't let what you can't do stop you from doing
what you can.
And William, another thing thatreally hit me hard these last
few years really spending timeon those webinars and podcasts
podcasts is that it's not justthe time that it takes to listen
, it's also the time that ittakes to implement the ideas
that you got.
Well said Well said I guess itjust like hit me a few years ago
(32:31):
of like well, you know what, IfI'm not slowing down enough to
implement these ideas, thenthey're just going off into the
ether also.
Dr. William Attaway (32:39):
Yes, information never leads to
transformation.
Information plus execution,leads to transformation.
Marika Flatt (32:47):
Yes.
Dr. William Attaway (32:48):
You've got to allow and intentionally block
time to do something with whatyou're learning.
So so, well said, I love itRight.
Marika Flatt (32:56):
Yeah, I blocked out Monday afternoons on my
calendar, you know, like two tofour every Monday.
That's set aside as a recurringcalendar, that's, I just have
it blocked out as ownershipduties and I have that two hours
where I am holding myselfaccountable to going to those
(33:16):
notes and those ideas andworking on implementation,
because and granted, I do thatstuff more than just two hours a
week, but that two hours is setaside to remind me, okay,
monday afternoon is my time towork on the business, even if I
only am implementing those ideas, those two hours a week.
(33:38):
It's set there, you know, andit's calling to me.
Dr. William Attaway (33:42):
That's so good.
Again, the intentionality oftime blocking.
I'm going to set this aside.
This is just for this and I'mnot going to let something else
overrun it.
I'm not going to let the urgentcrowd out the important.
So so good.
Marika Flatt (33:55):
And you have to protect it, right, because?
Dr. William Attaway (33:57):
Well, if you don't, who will?
Marika Flatt (34:00):
You know I do that with my exercise too.
You know, three days a week Iuse my lunch break to go to an
exercise class and I protectthat fiercely Because if I
didn't, there's a million otherthings that can take over and I
need that brain break.
I call it a shower for my brain.
I didn't come up with that.
(34:21):
One of my employees did over adecade ago.
But that's what it is.
You know, I'm in that class andI'm thinking about things.
I'm problem solving you know,it's just.
It's a very important time forme to get away from my computer,
in the middle of the day too.
Dr. William Attaway (34:41):
You know, for those of us who are staring
at screens all day long, takinga break away from the screens is
more important than I think wemight remember sometimes yes,
yes, absolutely you know, one ofthe things that we share in
common is a love for books.
Obviously, I have a little bitof a book problem, you can see
it.
Yes, you know.
Is there a book that, in yourjourney, has made an incredibly
(35:04):
big difference that you wouldrecommend to the leaders who are
listening?
Marika Flatt (35:08):
So I have two that I want to mention and they're
worlds apart from each other,but one of them and this is
actually a children's book isthe Little Engine that Could.
I love it, engine that could.
About 15 years ago I had amentor come back in and do a
training day for our team andshe was the book publicist that
(35:32):
I looked up to when I started mycareer.
You know, I saw her speak and Isaid that's her name's Jodi
Blanco, and I said that's who Iwant to be when I grow up.
And she came back and did aworkshop and she said PR by the
book is the little engine thatcould.
In this industry you all work sohard.
You are going to pull thattrain up that mountain and you
(35:53):
are going to chug, chug, chugand you're not the biggest and
you're not the most well-known,but you are going to work harder
than any other train out there.
And that visual stuck with meand I bought myself that book
and it sits on my bookshelf andI remember that we are the
little engine that could and wedo work.
(36:14):
I'll say we work the hardestand we work the longest and the
most creatively to get thattrain up the mountain for our
clients.
So that's one, but I will tellyou that about a year plus ago I
listened to UnreasonableHospitality by Will Cadera.
Dr. William Attaway (36:34):
Will Cadera yes.
Marika Flatt (36:37):
And you know, I just, I don't know.
I just happened across it and Iput it in my Audible and I just
voraciously absorbed that bookand I took notes and I was
constantly you know everychapter writing things down.
It was giving me those ideasand I have told so many people I
should be the book publicistfor that book because everywhere
(36:59):
I go and it's especiallyespecially comes up in my side
hustle with Texas LifestyleMagazine when I travel and I'm
talking to people in thehospitality industry.
But I will tell you that therewere so many things that it gave
me thoughts and ideas on for PRby the book and we're not in
(37:19):
hospitality, that's not ourindustry, but I just soaked up
so much from that book.
Dr. William Attaway (37:29):
Such a great read.
Such a great read.
Yeah, you know, you've beenrunning PR by the book, you and
your husband, for decades acouple of decades, you know and
it's very easy sometimes forpeople on the outside to look in
at a company like PR by thebook and say, wow, you know,
because we're looking at thehighlight reel, we're looking at
social media, we're looking atwhat's online, and it's easy
(37:49):
sometimes to look and say, ohman, their journey's just been
up and to the right, or likethey've never really struggled,
like I struggle, they've neverdealt with the problems that I
deal with as a small businessowner, and, of course, we know
the fallacy in that.
And so I want to ask you thisquestion with that in mind If I
had the ability to snap myfingers and solve one problem in
(38:11):
your business right now, whatwould you want that problem to
be?
Marika Flatt (38:17):
Say that I want authors to understand the
long-term benefits of promotingthemselves.
I find that as a strugglebecause authors come to us and
they're thinking of this four tosix month window and they're
thinking, okay, I know I've gotto promote this book for the
next four to six months, but wehave two clients that have been
(38:39):
with us consistently for overthree years each, for over three
years each.
And that is the type ofrelationship that I love to have
with authors.
We've got a lot of clients thathave been with us for a year
but the majority of PR by thebook clients are thinking in
(39:00):
terms of such a short-termwindow and I do my best to
explain to them all the benefitsof long-term promotion.
And, like we talked aboutbefore, we have a lot of
different programs that wecustomize where it's not as much
of an investment as people, youknow, drop down to other levels
for maintenance and things likethat.
But I would love, I would loveto eventually, you know, solve
(39:26):
that problem where, when authorscome to us, they think, okay,
I'm going to see this as aninvestment in my career, in my
business, just like I, you know,paid the bills for electricity.
You know, one of my favoritequotes was from Bill Gates, and
he said if I only had twodollars left, I'd spend one on
PR.
(39:47):
You know, it's just like that's,that is a cost of doing
business or having this part ofmy career.
And you know, and those twoauthors that have been with us
for three years, yeah, we'vedropped down to a very low
maintenance for them for a lotof the time that they've been
with us.
But we've also gone up and down, you know, up to promote
(40:11):
something big and then down tojust kind of even out and then
up again, you know, and so wework with them for whatever
those needs might be, for thatcontinual promotion.
But think about it, think aboutall the companies for that
continual promotion.
But think about it, think aboutall the companies.
You know Coca-Cola, they areconstantly.
They have an entire PRdepartment that for years they
(40:32):
have done PR month in and monthout.
And think about it, some monthswould be busier than others on
the earned media side of things.
Some months would just beplanting seeds, but it's always
happening and it's year afteryear, month after month, pr, pr,
pr.
So yeah, I'm constantly rollingthat over in my mind, thinking
(40:55):
how do we help these authorscreate a plan where they are
willing to keep that investmentas just a regular cost of doing
business?
Dr. William Attaway (41:07):
Just like you would think about marketing.
Right, that's cost of doingbusiness.
You've got to be investing inthat.
If you're not, how will peoplefind out about you?
This is similar.
I love that.
Thinking bigger, thinkinglonger, is a decision that I
have never regretted.
But thinking short boy, I'veregretted that more than once.
I love that you shared that.
(41:28):
Thanks for that.
That's very helpful.
Marika Flatt (41:30):
Yeah, well, I love that quote that you just said I
might be quoting you in mydiscovery meetings.
Dr. William Attaway (41:37):
Very little is original.
Most of the time, I'm sharingwhat I've learned, you know.
Yeah, I mean, we're spenders.
That's, I think, what we all do.
That's it.
That's it.
We're always constantlylearning.
Marika, this has been such amasterclass today in everything
we've talked about.
I'm so grateful to you forsharing with such honesty and
such generosity from thesedecades of experience that you
(41:59):
bring to this topic and fromyour own leadership journey.
Marika Flatt (42:10):
I know our listeners are going to want to
stay connected to you and learnmore from you and more about PR
by the book.
What's the best way for them todo that?
Well, prbythebookcom is ourwebsite.
There's a lot of informationthere.
They can email info atPRbythebookcom to receive our
welcome deck, and we've also gotauthor2influencercom for the
DIY solution for authors, andwe're out on every single social
media platform as PR by thebook.
Dr. William Attaway (42:32):
We'll have all those links in the show
notes.
Marika Flatt (42:34):
Great.
Dr. William Attaway (42:35):
Marika, thank you so much.
Marika Flatt (42:36):
This has been a joy for me too.
I just want to thank youbecause I just really loved
being a listener to your podcast.
So I just, I think, a listenerto your podcast, so I think
you're a very wise person andgreat interviewer, so thanks for
having me on.
It is a joy today to have Marika Flatt on
the podcast.
Marika is a seasoned bookpublicist and the founder of PR
by the Book.
After starting her career inthe late 90s as a young, smiling
and dialing publicist, shequickly rose through the ranks
of a boutique literary PR firmbefore launching her own company
(00:20):
in 2002.
For over two decades, marikahas championed authors, built
lasting media relationships andadapted to the ever-changing
world of book promotion withintegrity and creativity.
Beyond PR, she's a traveleditor for Texas Lifestyle
magazine and a regular on TexasTV sharing travel stories.
(00:43):
Her passion for connectingpeople to powerful stories
continues to shape thepublishing industry today.
Marika, I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Marika Flatt (00:55):
So happy to be here, William.
I love your podcast and I'm aregular listener, so this is a
thrill.
Dr. William Attaway (01:02):
It is for me as well.
I've been looking forward tothis one, so this is a thrill.
Well, it is for me as well.
Intro (01:06):
I've been looking forward to this one.
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help
leaders intentionally grow andthrive.
Here is your host, author andleadership and executive coach,
Dr William Attaway.
Dr. William Attaway (01:25):
I would love to start with you sharing a
little bit of your story withour listeners, particularly
around your journey in yourdevelopment as a leader.
Marika, how did you get started?
Marika Flatt (01:35):
So I really cut my teeth doing internships in TV
when I was in college and Ireally was on that path to
wanting to go the TV route.
And when I graduated fromcollege I landed in the industry
of book publicity and it waskind of a funny thing because I
ended up writing an articlecalled what is a Book Publicist
(01:56):
early on in my career and ittook off and people loved that
article.
Nobody really knew what a bookpublicist did at that time and I
always say that my extendedfamily always thought I was a
book publisher for the longesttime.
Oh what are you publishingthese days?
And I would have to say well,actually, you know, we handle
the media relations after thebook comes out.
(02:17):
We do not publish the books.
So it was kind of thateducation of even my extended
family trying to figure out whata book publicist is.
As someone who grew up, youknow, curled up with a good book
in the corner of my bed, justreading a novel, just loving the
joy of reading, and then beingable to pair that with media
(02:40):
that I loved so much I mean thatwas my track in college Book
publicity just became theperfect industry for me and I
think we can say that now I'vebeen in this business 28 years
total, so 23 for PR by the book.
But you know, as you mentioned,I got into it with another
(03:03):
small company and you know I'mso grateful and thankful to my
first boss, annie Phoenix.
She is still a dear friend tome.
She's no longer in bookpublicity but you know she took
me under her wing in a reallysmall company, taught me
everything she knew and put aton of faith in me to lead that
company in my 20s, which makesme laugh now.
(03:26):
But when you say how did youdevelop leadership?
Part of it early on was kind ofsink or swim.
I was in a small company whereyou had to do a little bit of
everything and Annie put so muchfaith in me that when she was
ready to kind of take a littlebit of time and step away, she
(03:47):
put me in that position and Ihave to say I made a lot of
mistakes in that first job.
I believe that I had inherentleadership skills but they
needed to be trained anddeveloped and so she actually
hired a business coach for mebefore she stepped away from the
(04:07):
business and that really helpedme a great deal, working
one-on-one with that businesscoach, and then I just became a
continual learner and to thisday, you know I am, I value
continuing education so muchthat I just tried to put in the
(04:29):
work.
You know, I read articles, Iread books.
Later on in my career, whenpodcasts like yours became a
thing, you know I make time forthat.
And so I would say that Ibecame a leader.
You know, in a hard fought way,that I really I had to learn
(04:51):
very early on in my 20s what wasmissing, you know, and I
couldn't just absorb theleadership styles that were
around me because those weren'tnecessarily the right ways to
lead.
And so you know, I don't thinkabout it that often.
(05:12):
So thank you for asking thisquestion.
But you know, I really feelproud of that journey.
You know, these last two plusdecades of learning what it
takes to be a leader, and youknow I still slip, I still make
mistakes, but you know I just Itry to keep all those plates
spinning, you know, and one ofthose plates is making sure that
(05:35):
I'm leading in a way that ourteam can respond to.
And so, yeah, that's a long,roundabout answer, but I mean
that's kind of what it answer,but kind of nebulous.
But I mean, that's kind of whatit is when you're learning at
an early age and then startingyour own business 100%.
Dr. William Attaway (05:53):
You know.
I love that you shared thestory about Annie.
I think that's so helpful.
It is so easy for, I think, anyentrepreneur to see potential
sometimes in their team members,and yet so difficult to hand
them not just responsibility fortasks but authority.
Giving somebody responsibilityand authority, that's true
(06:15):
delegation.
That is how you empower andbuild up a leader, and that's
what she did with you.
It sounds like I can imaginethat was not the easiest thing
in the world for her.
Marika Flatt (06:26):
No, it probably wasn't, and I think that's why
she'll always have such aspecial place in my heart,
because she believed in me fromday one.
I mean, I literally was onemonth out of graduating college
when I went in for thatinterview.
Dr. William Attaway (06:42):
She hired me on the spot when I went in
for that interview.
Marika Flatt (06:43):
She hired me on the spot and then we worked
really well side by side as longas she stayed in the business
and she eventually ended upselling that company to some
other people and I stayed for alittle while under that
leadership but then knew that itwas time for me to go out on my
own.
Dr. William Attaway (07:02):
Goodness and you know I think sometimes
that's a fear for a leader isthat if they pour into and
invest in somebody else, thatthat person will eventually
leave.
You know, it's like we have inour heads that everybody who's
with me now they'll be with meforever, when the reality is
that's just not the case.
That is not the case for thevast majority of the people that
(07:22):
we're going to lead.
They're going to be with us fora season.
Right, you know, andunderstanding that, I think, is
so critical.
Yeah, has that been somethingthat you have carried forward
into your business with theteams that you lead?
Marika Flatt (07:36):
I will latch on to my 20-something-year-old
publicist and really want tomentor them, because I see so
much of myself in some of themand it really inspires me to put
in some extra time andnurturing into them, because I
see I see the the real baseinstincts of a great book
(08:03):
publicist in them and I want toreally nurture that in a way
that allows them to continue togrow.
And you know, we, pr by thebook, is a bigger team than that
company was.
You know, for a long time thatcompany was only three people,
until we started growing it, andwe're a bigger team than that.
(08:24):
So I probably don't have asmany opportunities to just
completely hand something off tothose young publicists, but I
do hand off things that they canown and oversee.
So, whether it's, you know,something like, we built our
(08:47):
author to influencer program in2019 and launched it in 2020.
And that's basically our giveback to the literary community.
It's kind of a DIY program thatwe developed where there's a
lot of workshops in there.
There's something like 70workshops that I created.
(09:08):
So I'm in every single video andonce we got that up and running
, I was able to hand that off toone of our younger people and
she runs that now because it'snow, because it's it's it.
(09:28):
We're not creating new tapedsessions necessarily, we just do
monthly education and she doesthose interviews.
So that's an example ofsomething that you know, that's
something she can own and do,and she knows that I'm here if
she ever needs me to, to comeback in.
And and then we have anotherprogram that I was able to hand
off to another one of ourassistant publicists, called
Next Level PR, which is it's aprogram that's very budget
(09:52):
conscious for someone who wantsto extend a campaign on a very
minimal level, and she's thepublicist that oversees that.
So, again, able to say this isyours, own it, love it, take
care of it, nurture it, let meknow when you need help with it.
And so I do try to find thosetypes of programs within PR by
(10:13):
the book to assign to youngerpeople and let them, let them
oversee them and grow them andmake some decisions on their own
with that decisions on theirown with that.
Dr. William Attaway (10:27):
I love the intentionality of that.
You know of looking for thingsthat you can use to build up
leaders, to build up teammembers.
I think that's so important.
Going back just a little bit,you mentioned that your extended
family were not completelyclear on what a publicist was.
I imagine some of our listenersmight not be as well.
Could you explain what you doat PR by the Book on the high
(10:47):
30,000 foot view of what you doand how this benefits the
authors that you work with?
Marika Flatt (11:31):
no-transcript out about the book, because if they
don't, as I say, it's going tosit there on the proverbial
online shelf and nobody's goingto know that it exists.
So they hire us to get the wordout about their book and most
times it's around the launch ofthe book, so pub date,
(11:53):
publication date.
However, we have worked onprojects where somebody released
a book, for whatever reason.
They didn't do any publicityaround it and they know that
they need to promote it, give itanother life, in order to build
up that piece of their brandand maybe take their brand to
the next level.
They need to build up theirname recognition and sometimes,
(12:17):
as you know, the book is part oftheir business, so it might be
a calling card because maybethey want to build up their
speaking career, maybe theyhybrid published this time and
they would like to be able toland an agent in the future to
traditionally publish books inthe future.
So when authors come to us,they have a wide variety of
(12:39):
goals and that's something Ilike to discuss with them in
that introductory free discoverycall that I do with them is
what do you want to get out ofpromoting this book?
And it could be any of thosethings that I just said.
It could also be book sales andI always say to people you know,
we don't measure our successthrough book sales because
(13:01):
there's too many variables thatwe don't have control over
Distribution and sales.
You know, how good does anauthor do when we get them on an
interview?
Do they say the name of thebook enough?
And you know, I'll listen to,especially podcasts that our
clients do, and I'll go back tothem with a couple of tips.
And usually my number one tipfor them is you never said the
(13:24):
title of your book.
You said when I wrote my book,you know when I was researching
my book, and so I tell them, youknow, say when I wrote Dear
Dana, you know I did this.
Or say you know it was a longprocess to put together the
Power of who and when I did thatyou know.
(13:46):
So they can merge and blendthat book title in.
But that could be a reason whyan interview results in sales,
or doesn't, you know?
Because maybe the listenerreally loved what that expert
said, but they only heard thebook title at the very end and
they were just busy writingnotes of what they learned and
(14:09):
then they didn't realize whatthe book was, to go buy it.
So I always tell authors wemeasure our success through
media exposure, and that's thename of the game, that's our
lane, that's what we live andbreathe, those are the
relationships we have.
So we're measuring, we'relooking at that media exposure
report and at the end of everymonth okay, are we where we want
(14:32):
to be?
Do we need to pivot a littlebit?
Do we need to use a differenthook and angle?
That's more timely?
And so we're constantly lookingat those things and we're not
looking at book sales.
That's up to them.
They can keep their finger onthe pulse of that with their
publisher, or if they'reself-publishing, they are their
(14:52):
own publisher.
I mean, that's the essence ofself-publishing, and so we
encourage them.
You know you do that.
You can track your book sales.
We're going to track the mediaexposure that we land for an
author and, like I said,sometimes publishers will hire.
We have a lot of greatrelationships with publishing
houses where if they've got areally big book that they need
(15:13):
some help with in a season,they'll assign it to us.
Or maybe they just have areally busy season and they need
help on a couple of books, andso you know, we have those good
ongoing relationships withpublishing houses as well, and
it has been 23 years, so most ofour clients come to us either
through repeat business or wordof mouth, and we like it that
(15:35):
way because we love thoselong-term relationships.
Dr. William Attaway (15:39):
I love that and I think there's such value
in hiring an expert like you todo this.
You know, I talk to a lot ofpeople who are writing a book or
writing a second book orwhatever, and they're like, yeah
, I'm just doing it myself.
I'm like what's your plan,what's your strategy?
Right, and so often it's well,you know we'll put it up on
Amazon and you know people willfind it.
(16:01):
That's hope, and hope is not astrategy.
Careful there.
Marika Flatt (16:07):
Hope is good in certain situations, but not
necessarily when it comes tobook publicity exactly one of
the things I often tell them.
Dr. William Attaway (16:15):
When we did my last book, I went on a
podcast book tour and I was onabout 85 shows that year talking
about the book, and now I'mscared to go back and listen to
see how many times I said thetitle of the book.
I'm like, oh man, did I, did Isay it enough, you know?
But that's such a simple,actionable piece of advice.
I I love that.
Marika Flatt (16:35):
Yeah, and.
Dr. William Attaway (16:36):
I hope our listeners, wherever they are in
this journey, are saying, ohyeah, okay, that's important,
Don't lose that.
Marika Flatt (16:42):
Right, you know jot that down.
Dr. William Attaway (16:44):
That's so critical, right?
What other mistakes do you seeauthors make as they are
stepping into this journey?
Marika Flatt (16:51):
Yeah.
So one of the mistakes thatdoesn't have anything to do with
media training like the lastone kind of falls in the media
training category.
But one of the mistakes thatdoesn't have anything to do with
media training like the lastone kind of falls in the media
training category.
But one of the mistakes is whenthey think that they're going
to just shoot for the starsright away and they just want
top tier media outlets.
And I'm very honest and verytransparent with authors in that
(17:13):
discovery meeting to you know,I've prepped for the meeting, so
I know what their book is, Iknow a little bit about their
project and I'm very honest withsetting those expectations of
what media they are appropriatefor.
And they might just be startingout and this might be a debut
book for them and they mighthave a little bit of a following
(17:34):
on social media, but this istheir first book.
And so I prepare them and say,listen, we're going to start
with your local and regionalmedia because we need to get
some clips that we can embed inour pitch to bigger media,
because bigger media is going towant to know that you can
handle yourself, whether it bein front of a camera or just in
(17:54):
front of a microphone.
They need to know that you cancarry yourself.
So we're going to start withyour local press and you need to
really appreciate thoseopportunities, because you can't
just look at that as, as youknow, oh well, that's my local
tv station.
No embrace that, you know.
I mean, get excited about that,and so that's one thing.
(18:16):
Another thing would be if theyfeel like they're too busy to do
what's needed for some outlets.
So what I mean by that is youknow, there's some really great
online digital publications outthere that want to do a Q&A with
an author.
So they want to send over,let's just say, 10 interview
(18:36):
questions and have the authoranswer those and have them be
original.
And so you know, here's anothertip I tell authors get your
iPhone, open up your notes appvoice in your answers to those
questions, send them to yourselfvia email, put them into a
(18:56):
Google Doc and clean them up,and that is the quickest,
easiest way, because then also,you're just speaking it, you're
very authentic when you'reanswering those questions.
And now, greg, don't just sendthat straight version, because
it's going to need some editing,because I do that myself, you
know, for different things,especially you mentioned the
travel writing.
I'll do that, for my firstdraft is I'll just open up that
(19:23):
notes app and I'll just voice inthe highlights of you know,
like you're my friend If you sayto me, mariko, what is your
favorite place in the FloridaKeys?
And I just want to tell you allabout my pick and why.
I'm just going to voice it inlike that and just tell you.
Here's why you need to go tosuch and such place.
And then, of course, I'll putthat in the google doc and clean
(19:44):
it up as the next draft, and itprobably goes through three
drafts.
But you know, that's just aneasy way for an author to
provide what that media outletis looking for and it really
doesn't take that much time.
So you and I could talk aboutthis all day.
I don't want to use up all ofour time going and talking about
the mistakes that I see, butyou know that's we just have to.
(20:07):
You know our clients hire usbecause we're experts in this
field you mentioned that earlierand we want them to take our
advice and know that we're notgoing to steer them wrong.
We're not going to put them ona media outlet that's not
appropriate for their messaging,but we're going to find the
outlets that we believe you knowhave an audience that needs to
(20:28):
hear their messaging, andsometimes it might take a little
work or effort or time on theirpart, but you know they need to
be ready for that.
You said you did 85 podcastinterviews.
That took a good chunk of yourtime.
That year.
Dr. William Attaway (20:44):
Yeah, it did, but it was worth it.
You know, because of therelationships that I built, the
networking that I was able to do, even with those podcast hosts
that then turned into otherthings.
You know, not to mention thereach Right, because when you're
guesting on other people'splatforms whether it's media,
whether it's podcast, whateveryou're leveraging their audience
Right Without you having tobuild it.
Marika Flatt (21:06):
Yeah.
Dr. William Attaway (21:06):
They're inviting you into their system.
Marika Flatt (21:09):
Yes, I love that I can't tell you how many times
I'm talking to an author in thatinitial discovery meeting and
they'll say I just loved hearingyou on that publishing podcast.
You know, so I've done podcastswith, let's just say we as an
example, we've got some hybridpublishers that we've worked
with for years and we're kind ofin their top three book
(21:33):
publicist recommendations whenthey give it to their authors
because they don't providepublicity in-house.
And so you know, I people willsay I loved that interview that
you did with Greenleaf, you know, and it was maybe like five
years ago and they're stillfinding it and they're still
listening and getting a lot ofgood information out of it.
(21:55):
And so, yeah, I mean those comeback around for sure for us.
And you know, pr by the book isout there on the line in the
World Wide Web, because I'vebeen doing those types of things
for over two decades in oneform or fashion.
Dr. William Attaway (22:11):
Well, you know I often say that you know
you hire a coach when you wantto go farther than you can go on
your own and you want to getthere faster you know, because
they're going to bring theirknowledge base to bear.
That's what y'all do.
Y'all are bringing yourknowledge base of decades of
experience to bear for yourauthors or for the publishers
Say, hey, we're going to helpyou go farther and get there
(22:34):
faster.
We want to help you take thatshortcut that we can see, and
it's hard to see the wholepicture when you're in the frame
.
You know, you guys are on theoutside, you can see the entire
picture.
You can say, hey, wait a minute, you probably haven't seen this
, but we have Let us help you.
Yes, I think that's so needed.
Marika Flatt (22:53):
One of my very first authors that I worked with
as a baby book publicist in thelate 90s, who ended up being a
bestselling author.
His name is Roy Williams andhe's an advertising guru and he
I still use one of his quotesthat he says you can't read the
label from inside the bottle.
And I credit him for that.
But I love that quote becauseyou know whether it's I'm trying
(23:18):
to write a pitch or I'm tryingto write my own bio or you know
any of those things.
It's so hard to see the bigpicture from inside the bottle
because you, as the author, yeah, you're in there and you know
that book backwards and forwardsand that is your baby and you
(23:38):
know that content and you willknow that content better than
any book publicist.
But that's different thanknowing how to package it for
media outlets to be able to payattention and utilize it.
Dr. William Attaway (23:51):
So, so good , and that's why you have
resources like the Author toInfluencer you know this DIY
program that you give me Sevenplus resources inside.
I mean that's crazy yeah.
Marika Flatt (24:08):
Like the time that it took to pour all that in Wow
, month, maybe a year and a halfperiod of time where I just
thought, okay, because by thatpoint I had been in the business
20 years not PR by the book,hadn't been around for 20 years,
but I've been in the businessfor 20 years and I just thought
(24:28):
what do authors need to know?
You know, and who can I pull into talk about this that knows
more about that topic than I do?
Those were the interviews.
So, for instance, that could bethe importance of good book
cover design, for instance.
So a lot of them were meinterviewing an expert in a
category related to book or youknow how to get something done.
(24:50):
But if it had to do withpublicity and promotion, I was
teaching on, like how to write agreat press pack or how to how
to um, I did a media trainingseries so how to do a great
interview.
So it was a combination of thetwo Either I was teaching a
course or I was interviewingsomebody that could talk about a
(25:13):
topic outside of just strictbook publicity.
So, yeah, that was.
I call it our nonprofit becauseI just feel like that about that
program that you know it's not.
It's not what we're out theremaking a living on, but it is a
resource that authors can tapinto and it's extremely
(25:33):
inexpensive can tap into andit's extremely inexpensive.
And that's what I tell people.
You can't hire a book publicistbecause not everybody can.
You know it's an investment.
So if you can't invest in abook publicist, go on to
authortoinfluencercom and learnhow to do what you can do
yourself.
And we do have a member benefitin there that if somebody goes
(25:57):
through the program and theythink, okay, there's just like
these three or four things, Ijust I can't do them myself, I
need help, Then they can getinto a block of time, like an
hourly block of time, where wecan define okay, this person
needs help with these threethings, these five things.
And we can help them.
You know, on an hourly basis.
(26:19):
Blocks.
Dr. William Attaway (26:20):
That's good .
Marika Flatt (26:21):
So they're not stuck out there, you know, on
the boat in the middle of theocean all on their own, oh, and
they can get into a privateFacebook group for the author to
influencer, where they can usethat as a resource.
Their fellow authors are inthere.
They can ask a question.
Dr. William Attaway (26:39):
We go in there literally the day of and
answer a question that's so good, so many resources that you are
using and differentmethodologies that you're using
to equip, to empower theseauthors to get their message out
right, to put this thing thatthey have, that they believe so
strongly in, out into the worldto most people so people can
actually see it right.
Marika Flatt (27:00):
I love that yeah, well, it's not one size fits all
you know no, it can't be.
Dr. William Attaway (27:06):
That's exactly right.
I love that yeah I want to askyou this you know you have to
lead at a different level todaythan you did back in the days
when you were working forsomebody else, you know, or when
you started your company, andthe same thing is going to be
true five years from now.
You have continued to level upand you're going to have to
continue to do that, becauseyour clients and your team are
(27:29):
going to need more from you.
They're going to ask more fromyou.
How do you stay on top of yourgame?
How do you level up with thenew leadership skills that your
clients and your team are goingto need you to have in the days
to come?
Marika Flatt (27:44):
So I love that question, william, because the
first answer would be that, wellbefore I met you, um five years
ago, um, we started workingwith a business coach, and I
heartily recommend that for anybusiness, because it's almost
like I'm sorry, four years ago,not five years ago it was the
(28:09):
very end of 2021.
When we started working withthat coach, it was like we here
again, you can't read the labelfrom inside the bottle, right?
It was like my husband and I werun PR by the book together.
We had taken PR by the book asfar as we could in our being in
the container and not seeing thelabel from outside the bottle.
(28:32):
We had done all that we couldin terms of our innovation at
the time, and so I just can'tsay enough about the importance
of hiring a business coach andhaving that longevity, because
we are about to wrap up fouryears and that program and that
(28:52):
coach was able to continually tocontinually help us innovate,
and so that's one thing.
And then the other thing isthat I am just a major, major
fan of continuing education.
I spend a decent amount of mywork week every week listening
to podcasts, reading articles,reading nonfiction, and if I go
(29:15):
out and do a walk, because I tryto get moving a little bit five
or six days a week.
I'm either listening to apodcast and, let me tell you,
even if I'm going out for a walk, I have a piece of paper and a
pen with me, because if I'mlistening to your podcast, for
example, I'll just get likeideas just shooting in my head
(29:37):
and I write them down straightaway, because I don't want to,
you know, think I'll get backfrom my 45 minute walk and then
I'll write something down.
No, I'm writing it down rightaway and then, yeah, I just I
start my morning routine.
I have a very specific morningroutine.
So after I get myself ready, Iget my cup of coffee, I have a
(29:57):
chair in the front room of myhouse.
It's very calm and peaceful, Ihave some pretty little lights
in that room and I spend aboutthe first hour reading things.
Whether it be so, I love, love,love my little book, morning
Fuel that sits by my desk.
It's well, it's not a desk,it's a little chair and a table
(30:19):
and it's one quick littlepassage that I read each morning
and then I might journal alittle bit, and then I'm reading
news of the day.
I have two news aggregates thatI read every morning real quick
, and then I'll read an articleor two that has come through
that.
You know, I'm not going to takethe time during my workday once
I get behind my computer toread an article, so I'm going to
(30:41):
save it in my inbox and thenI'm going to go back and when I
have that, one hour before I goto my computer, I'm in the
kitchen by myself cooking dinner, I'm listening to one If I am,
(31:01):
you know, having to commutesomewhere, let's say, you know,
downtown Austin, and I've got 30, 45 minutes, that's enough time
for a webinar or a podcast.
And so I'm constantly,constantly educating myself in
that way, because things arechanging all the time and, like
you referenced, we have tocontinue to innovate, we have to
(31:21):
continue to grow, we have tocontinue to learn.
The only constant in smallbusiness is change.
Dr. William Attaway (31:28):
That's right.
Marika Flatt (31:29):
We just, and we have to model that for our teams
too.
Dr. William Attaway (31:32):
Yeah, that's so well said.
I love the intentionality thatyou pour into this that you
don't expect one day you're justgoing to have all the time you
need to learn and grow.
No, you're going to make ithappen and it's a daily rhythm
for you and, I hope, ourlisteners.
If they are not in the habit ofdoing something similar to that
, they would make a commitment.
(31:52):
You can do this.
You're in charge, right?
Don't let what you can't dostop you from doing what you can
.
Oh, I don't have an hour.
Okay, great, take 15 minutes.
Something is better thannothing.
Marika Flatt (32:07):
Don't let what you can't do stop you from doing
what you can.
And William, another thing thatreally hit me hard these last
few years really spending timeon those webinars and podcasts
podcasts is that it's not justthe time that it takes to listen
, it's also the time that ittakes to implement the ideas
that you got.
Well said Well said I guess itjust like hit me a few years ago
(32:31):
of like well, you know what, IfI'm not slowing down enough to
implement these ideas, thenthey're just going off into the
ether also.
Dr. William Attaway (32:39):
Yes, information never leads to
transformation.
Information plus execution,leads to transformation.
Marika Flatt (32:47):
Yes.
Dr. William Attaway (32:48):
You've got to allow and intentionally block
time to do something with whatyou're learning.
So so, well said, I love itRight.
Marika Flatt (32:56):
Yeah, I blocked out Monday afternoons on my
calendar, you know, like two tofour every Monday.
That's set aside as a recurringcalendar, that's, I just have
it blocked out as ownershipduties and I have that two hours
where I am holding myselfaccountable to going to those
(33:16):
notes and those ideas andworking on implementation,
because and granted, I do thatstuff more than just two hours a
week, but that two hours is setaside to remind me, okay,
monday afternoon is my time towork on the business, even if I
only am implementing those ideas, those two hours a week.
(33:38):
It's set there, you know, andit's calling to me.
Dr. William Attaway (33:42):
That's so good.
Again, the intentionality oftime blocking.
I'm going to set this aside.
This is just for this and I'mnot going to let something else
overrun it.
I'm not going to let the urgentcrowd out the important.
So so good.
Marika Flatt (33:55):
And you have to protect it, right, because?
Dr. William Attaway (33:57):
Well, if you don't, who will?
Marika Flatt (34:00):
You know I do that with my exercise too.
You know, three days a week Iuse my lunch break to go to an
exercise class and I protectthat fiercely Because if I
didn't, there's a million otherthings that can take over and I
need that brain break.
I call it a shower for my brain.
I didn't come up with that.
(34:21):
One of my employees did over adecade ago.
But that's what it is.
You know, I'm in that class andI'm thinking about things.
I'm problem solving you know,it's just.
It's a very important time forme to get away from my computer,
in the middle of the day too.
Dr. William Attaway (34:41):
You know, for those of us who are staring
at screens all day long, takinga break away from the screens is
more important than I think wemight remember sometimes yes,
yes, absolutely you know, one ofthe things that we share in
common is a love for books.
Obviously, I have a little bitof a book problem, you can see
it.
Yes, you know.
Is there a book that, in yourjourney, has made an incredibly
(35:04):
big difference that you wouldrecommend to the leaders who are
listening?
Marika Flatt (35:08):
So I have two that I want to mention and they're
worlds apart from each other,but one of them and this is
actually a children's book isthe Little Engine that Could.
I love it, engine that could.
About 15 years ago I had amentor come back in and do a
training day for our team andshe was the book publicist that
(35:32):
I looked up to when I started mycareer.
You know, I saw her speak and Isaid that's her name's Jodi
Blanco, and I said that's who Iwant to be when I grow up.
And she came back and did aworkshop and she said PR by the
book is the little engine thatcould.
In this industry you all work sohard.
You are going to pull thattrain up that mountain and you
(35:53):
are going to chug, chug, chugand you're not the biggest and
you're not the most well-known,but you are going to work harder
than any other train out there.
And that visual stuck with meand I bought myself that book
and it sits on my bookshelf andI remember that we are the
little engine that could and wedo work.
(36:14):
I'll say we work the hardestand we work the longest and the
most creatively to get thattrain up the mountain for our
clients.
So that's one, but I will tellyou that about a year plus ago I
listened to UnreasonableHospitality by Will Cadera.
Dr. William Attaway (36:34):
Will Cadera yes.
Marika Flatt (36:37):
And you know, I just, I don't know.
I just happened across it and Iput it in my Audible and I just
voraciously absorbed that bookand I took notes and I was
constantly you know everychapter writing things down.
It was giving me those ideasand I have told so many people I
should be the book publicistfor that book because everywhere
(36:59):
I go and it's especiallyespecially comes up in my side
hustle with Texas LifestyleMagazine when I travel and I'm
talking to people in thehospitality industry.
But I will tell you that therewere so many things that it gave
me thoughts and ideas on for PRby the book and we're not in
(37:19):
hospitality, that's not ourindustry, but I just soaked up
so much from that book.
Dr. William Attaway (37:29):
Such a great read.
Such a great read.
Yeah, you know, you've beenrunning PR by the book, you and
your husband, for decades acouple of decades, you know and
it's very easy sometimes forpeople on the outside to look in
at a company like PR by thebook and say, wow, you know,
because we're looking at thehighlight reel, we're looking at
social media, we're looking atwhat's online, and it's easy
(37:49):
sometimes to look and say, ohman, their journey's just been
up and to the right, or likethey've never really struggled,
like I struggle, they've neverdealt with the problems that I
deal with as a small businessowner, and, of course, we know
the fallacy in that.
And so I want to ask you thisquestion with that in mind If I
had the ability to snap myfingers and solve one problem in
(38:11):
your business right now, whatwould you want that problem to
be?
Marika Flatt (38:17):
Say that I want authors to understand the
long-term benefits of promotingthemselves.
I find that as a strugglebecause authors come to us and
they're thinking of this four tosix month window and they're
thinking, okay, I know I've gotto promote this book for the
next four to six months, but wehave two clients that have been
(38:39):
with us consistently for overthree years each, for over three
years each.
And that is the type ofrelationship that I love to have
with authors.
We've got a lot of clients thathave been with us for a year
but the majority of PR by thebook clients are thinking in
(39:00):
terms of such a short-termwindow and I do my best to
explain to them all the benefitsof long-term promotion.
And, like we talked aboutbefore, we have a lot of
different programs that wecustomize where it's not as much
of an investment as people, youknow, drop down to other levels
for maintenance and things likethat.
But I would love, I would loveto eventually, you know, solve
(39:26):
that problem where, when authorscome to us, they think, okay,
I'm going to see this as aninvestment in my career, in my
business, just like I, you know,paid the bills for electricity.
You know, one of my favoritequotes was from Bill Gates, and
he said if I only had twodollars left, I'd spend one on
PR.
(39:47):
You know, it's just like that's,that is a cost of doing
business or having this part ofmy career.
And you know, and those twoauthors that have been with us
for three years, yeah, we'vedropped down to a very low
maintenance for them for a lotof the time that they've been
with us.
But we've also gone up and down, you know, up to promote
(40:11):
something big and then down tojust kind of even out and then
up again, you know, and so wework with them for whatever
those needs might be, for thatcontinual promotion.
But think about it, think aboutall the companies for that
continual promotion.
But think about it, think aboutall the companies.
You know Coca-Cola, they areconstantly.
They have an entire PRdepartment that for years they
(40:32):
have done PR month in and monthout.
And think about it, some monthswould be busier than others on
the earned media side of things.
Some months would just beplanting seeds, but it's always
happening and it's year afteryear, month after month, pr, pr,
pr.
So yeah, I'm constantly rollingthat over in my mind, thinking
(40:55):
how do we help these authorscreate a plan where they are
willing to keep that investmentas just a regular cost of doing
business?
Dr. William Attaway (41:07):
Just like you would think about marketing.
Right, that's cost of doingbusiness.
You've got to be investing inthat.
If you're not, how will peoplefind out about you?
This is similar.
I love that.
Thinking bigger, thinkinglonger, is a decision that I
have never regretted.
But thinking short boy, I'veregretted that more than once.
I love that you shared that.
(41:28):
Thanks for that.
That's very helpful.
Marika Flatt (41:30):
Yeah, well, I love that quote that you just said I
might be quoting you in mydiscovery meetings.
Dr. William Attaway (41:37):
Very little is original.
Most of the time, I'm sharingwhat I've learned, you know.
Yeah, I mean, we're spenders.
That's, I think, what we all do.
That's it.
That's it.
We're always constantlylearning.
Marika, this has been such amasterclass today in everything
we've talked about.
I'm so grateful to you forsharing with such honesty and
such generosity from thesedecades of experience that you
(41:59):
bring to this topic and fromyour own leadership journey.
Marika Flatt (42:10):
I know our listeners are going to want to
stay connected to you and learnmore from you and more about PR
by the book.
What's the best way for them todo that?
Well, prbythebookcom is ourwebsite.
There's a lot of informationthere.
They can email info atPRbythebookcom to receive our
welcome deck, and we've also gotauthor2influencercom for the
DIY solution for authors, andwe're out on every single social
media platform as PR by thebook.
Dr. William Attaway (42:32):
We'll have all those links in the show
notes.
Marika Flatt (42:34):
Great.
Dr. William Attaway (42:35):
Marika, thank you so much.
Marika Flatt (42:36):
This has been a joy for me too.
I just want to thank youbecause I just really loved
being a listener to your podcast.
So I just, I think, a listenerto your podcast, so I think
you're a very wise person andgreat interviewer, so thanks for
having me on.
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