Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
What's going on
everybody?
Welcome back to the Catching Upwith Christians podcast.
I'm your host, Coach DanMcCarty, alongside a dear friend
of mine, amy Boberg.
How are you doing today?
I'm doing great.
That's awesome.
Thank you so much for hoppingon here with us today.
If you wouldn't mind kind ofgiving the listeners a little
rundown of who you are, what youdo and how you got to where you
(00:24):
are.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
listeners, a little
rundown of who you are, what you
do and how you got to where youare Sure.
So I'm actually a PhD studentin psychology.
I have less than a year left,which is awesome.
So I have a biblical studiesdegree and I have a master's in
psychology, and now I'm gettinga psychology degree as a doctor,
which will be really cool.
(00:45):
So that's amazing.
My journey into psychologyturned out to be kind of
something I fell into, becauseour world really has changed.
Our world really has morphedand mental health has become
huge and we really have tofigure out how to deal with
(01:08):
mental health, and so I feltlike somebody in 2020,.
I was a women's pastor, and onething that happened to me in a
over a series of like a week wasI had a 17 year old suicidal
girl in my office one day, andthen the next day I had a 62
year old hoarder.
And then the week after that, Ihad a 17 year old suicidal girl
in my office one day, and thenthe next day I had a 62 year old
hoarder, and then the weekafter that, I had a young lady
(01:29):
who's 24 years old come in andshe said hey, uh, I just got
diagnosed with bipolar twoschizoaffective disorder.
What do I do now?
And I was like I don't know.
I have a Bible degree, and so Irealized that there was a huge
gap in my life of understandingwhat was going on in our world
(01:53):
in 2020.
And so I figured I have a souldegree in the Bible and it's
very much just a heart degree.
And then I decided I needed tounderstand what was going on in
the brain and what was going onin the body when we talk about,
like anxiety and mental illness,and how those all things
(02:13):
function together, because Godsays that we're made mind, body
and soul and we have to attendto all of those things.
And so now I feel like I'm onthis track of understanding
mental health in a whole new wayand I get a bonus of
understanding all the mentalillnesses and all of the
(02:34):
abnormal psychology that's outthere as well.
And so I am a counselor in townhere in Kingman, and so I
stepped out of my ministry roleinto opening my own business to
help people and to help fill thegaps within our city, which is
a very small city.
I'm in Kingman, arizona, and soI opened the Hope and Health
(02:56):
Hub, and my goal was notnecessarily to sit with people
but to figure out how to leadleaders so that we can bring
care not only to our churchleaders but to bring more
information into the workplacesand schools and Christian
(03:16):
schools, and so I actually teachat a Christian school once a
month.
I've taught at multiple schools, I've taught at multiple
schools, I've taught at thecounty, and so I see myself more
teaching workshops and leadingand teaching environment and as
much as I do sit with peopleone-on-one, that's not the end
goal.
I'm getting a PhD, so that'smore research and writing books
(03:39):
and stuff like that.
So that's kind of where I'velanded, where I've put two
mental health journals out thisyear.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Wow, that's amazing.
I mean there's so much tounpack there which I'm really
excited to, but honestly it justcomes back to this mindset that
I feel like you have.
That's just serving right,giving back just of what God's
been able to teach you in yourlife and through experiences and
I'm sure, hardships anddifferent aspects of your life.
(04:09):
That has also led you to wantto use your testimony and your
story, your experiences, to alsoto then help other people
through their journey.
So I love that.
That's super inspiring.
Before we dive into thoselovely things, I'd love to just
kind of tell the listeners howwe know each other.
You know this goes way back.
(04:30):
I kind of know you know thebase story.
Maybe you could give a littledetail of what I don't know.
But from my perspective, youknow, between you and I I mean
it was when I was I want to sayeight or seven and I, I mean it
was when I was, I want to sayeight or seven which now is 14
years.
You know I'll be 22 in Novemberhere and I believe there's, you
(04:52):
know, my dad and your husbandand you all, some something in
the electrical engineer or theelectrical lighting world kind
of came across tracks at somepoint.
But, um, between you and I,because of that relationship
with my dad and my parents, um,you ultimately did a really
powerful thing early on.
(05:14):
That was a pretty significantpart of my faith walk right, um,
for the listeners know this, um, I'm huge into music.
When I'm talking about musiclike like last year my Spotify
rap I listened to 170,000minutes of music.
Like I love my music and atthat time I was really big into
artists like Audio, adrenaline,toby Mac some really influential
(05:38):
people in my life in the musicworld at that point life in the
music world at that point.
And I had recently had a videowhen I was younger that was
taken of me, that was like a dayin the life, basically, of a
child with my disability, and Iwas six years old At that point.
Amy knew that I love music, sheknew that video was made and
(06:03):
and at some point she was like,hey, I know someone that knows
someone that might, you know, beable to get you to meet some
people and I know you like themusic.
So let's see what happens.
So I don't know much happenedon that end, but I know from my
end I was just like an eightyear old I was like, okay, sweet
, I show up at this time, I getto hear some music, maybe I meet
somebody great Like this iscool.
(06:26):
But I look back at that momentnow and how much it's influenced
my faith walk, because I tellpeople, you know, the way I
connect with God the most hasbeen through music.
And one reason is I have ADHD.
So my mind goes, wow, soreading the Bible?
You know I love it.
Um, but I struggle with thatsometimes, you know, just
(06:48):
keeping my mind focused right.
So I didn't.
I typically listen to the bible.
But music, when you're layingin a hospital bed and you're in
so much pain or discomfort andyou have nowhere else to turn
and the only thing that canreally just give you a sense of
peace, of just like calming youdown, is like a song or a
worship song or an artistspecifically.
(07:11):
It's different.
You know, like my buddies tothis day will tease me.
They're like bro, you gettinginto it tonight at worship.
I'm like dude, when you're likeI said, when you're in a
hospital room there's nothingelse to do and a song comes on
that you resonate with and youcan feel the presence of the
Lord upon you in that area it'sdifferent.
So it's a really significantmoment in my life and I love
(07:32):
that you're in your perspectiveon kind of what you led you to
do that Ultimately, yeah, fromyour perspective absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Okay.
So this is such a cool story andI'm so excited that I got to be
a part of it because, um,you're totally right.
So, um, my husband and your dad,um, knew each other from the
lighting industry and theyworked together at, I think,
2008, like it was a long timeago, and, um, so, but we've
(08:03):
always kind of stayed connectedand then, of course, your sister
and my daughter were very goodfriends and so that's like this
cool connection that kept ourfamilies together and I had the
pleasure of randomly meetingAudio Adrenaline, of randomly
(08:28):
meeting, um, audio adrenaline,and so we ended up at dinner and
, um, that connection kind ofstayed together.
And then, about a year later,was when I found out that you
really liked Toby Mac and audioadrenaline, and just so happened
that they knew each other and Ijust made a phone call and said
, hey, um, you know we're goingto the Toby Mac show, but, um,
(08:50):
this is Dan and he would love tomeet you, um, and so they set
the whole thing up and, um, youended up going backstage, if I
remember correctly, I remember,and Toby Mack shouted me out
that night too.
(09:11):
I remember that that's right.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
And.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
I was in the crowd
when he was like hey, dan the
man.
So it was so cool.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Very cool connection.
No, that's so cool.
I think, like we said, justkind of who you are as an
individual and who Christ callsus to be is serving and really
trying to be the life for others.
And, like I said, in thatmoment you might not realize
what that seed is going toflourish into.
And from that moment I stillcling on to faith.
(09:40):
Christian music to this day,right in the hard seasons of my
life.
Christian music to this day,right and the hard seasons of my
life.
And I think those roots thatyou plant early, I think, have
such a significant impact andyou just don't know when right
and I think, to all thelisteners, I think it's just a
great example of do the rightthing and if those spirits
(10:01):
leading you to do something andyou might not see the benefit
right away, maybe you'll neversee the benefit till you're in
heaven, but ultimately that'swhat God's going to want you to
do and because that's that'sbeing more like Jesus.
So that's a really significantmoment in my life and I'm
extremely, extremely thankfulfor that.
(10:21):
It was.
It was wild.
I was going through the picturesthe other day just because I
was like trying to.
I knew I was going to have youon.
We're going to bring up thisconversation.
I was like man, I'm so small,I'm like Toby Max holding me up
on his shoulder like this, butthat was such an amazing moment
and I really appreciate that.
So let's kind of dive in here alittle bit more about you know
(10:47):
what you do now and, ultimately,I know you had a variety, if
I'm not mistaken kind of careersor paths before you led it to
what you're doing now and talkabout maybe, like I know you
mentioned a couple experiencesin 2020, but maybe go even
further back where you felt kindof the call to ministry I know
(11:09):
it's the ministry within yourchurch and kind of how God used
some things in your life to leadyou into a path of just serving
him and others that follow him.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, so I've been in
kind of.
I think that I was the personwho said I'll never be in
ministry because I was apastor's kid.
So you grow up as a pastor'skid and you're like, oh, I'm
never going to do that, and thenall of a sudden you find
yourself staying and then youfind yourself being a leader up
(11:42):
when I was I don't know how oldI was, I was probably 27, 28
years old where I kind of gotinto a space where I was like
okay, god, what are we doing?
And it wasn't until I was about29 where God was like, hey,
this is kind of how I want youto go.
(12:03):
And, um, I I ended up going tomy church and trying out for the
vocal team.
And you know, I, I I'm alreadya worship leader and so I let, I
led it lots of differentchurches and, um, I didn't make
it.
Um, and so it was really hardbecause I was like, dang, this
(12:27):
is my church and I didn't evenmake the team, and so I Don't
let him fool you guys.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
He can sing.
I've heard it.
He can sing.
Don't let it fool you, all thelisteners, he can sing.
I forgot that was one of themany gifts you had and I
remember seeing the videos.
Yeah, so you can say don't letit fool you guys.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Well you know God is
so good, because I honestly
sulked for like three months andhe brought me into that.
He brought me to Mark and hebasically said, if you want to
be made known in the kingdom,then you serve.
And I was like, oh, he'sgetting my heart right.
(13:07):
And so I ended up going back tothe church and I said, hey,
obviously if I don't fit on thevocal team, that's okay, but
where do I fit?
And I ended up becoming likethat Wednesday night, becoming
like a lighting person for theWednesday night service, and I
was like it was like when theyhad like RGB and you could like
(13:30):
fade them during bridges, and itwas before they had all of
these massive like productionbooths.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
And within like a
month they realized that I had
some leadership skills and so Iended up becoming a producer for
that church for about fiveyears and God was really
faithful in that, because a yearlater there was restoration.
I ended up becoming one of theworship leaders there and it was
super, super cool.
(13:58):
And then that ministry kind ofcontinued, kind of my whole path
.
I led worship for women and, um, kind of became a leader in the
women's ministry.
And then, um, eventually Godsaid, you know, I was like, what
do you want me to do with this?
And obviously the music industryis really big for me.
(14:18):
I love, um, all of our artistsand stuff like that.
And um, god said he just wantedme to feed my sheep.
And I said, oh, okay, inworship, okay, great.
And I just kind of followedthat path and, uh, that led all
the way up until I ended upmoving to Kingman Arizona and,
(14:39):
uh, I ended up getting a job asa worship leader and so I was a
worship leader for three yearsand then I was moved into
women's ministry.
I had a Bible degree, so I wasqualified.
We started this huge women'sministry which is going huge
right now and it's great.
And the transition for me was,yes, you can lead worship with
(15:01):
your music, but can you leadworship with your life?
And so I transitioned fromworship into women's ministry
and became the women's pastorfor three years and it was great
and I love that time.
I love serving people.
And then, after 2020 and all ofthese things happened, it led
(15:24):
me to get more schooling, andthat has led me into where I am
today, which is really seekinghow to help people find not only
some balance and emotionalstability, but also it requires,
like one to, but also itrequires, like one to have mind,
(15:46):
body and soul connected inalignment.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
And so you need the
soul piece to live healthy.
So it's definitely more.
Oh, I love that.
No, I think for me, one of thethings that I'm kind of in a
journey in my life right now hasbeen understanding that
ministry is not just in the fourwalls.
And I think that you know,there's a misconception
(16:23):
sometimes in the.
You know, as Christ followers,we think like if we are serving,
it has to be within our church.
And you know, I felt called tothe ministry a few years back
but I ignored it.
I'll be straight up, honest,they know it.
I was kind of like OK, but I'menjoying college baseball, this
is cool, I'm serving theseplayers.
But God was like no, there'ssomething bigger.
Like you got to pursue this,you got to get this.
You're talking about education.
(16:49):
I did not like school, I wasnever passionate about school,
and God was like bro, you needto get your education.
You got something bigger onyour life that you need to help.
You know, like you said, feedthe sheep, you know, lead them
and those types of things.
And so what I realized quicklywas when I started getting
plugged in to my central church.
I love it, I'm really heavilyplugged in there.
I'll be an intern here inAugust.
(17:10):
Everything's great there, butwhat I realized is that it
doesn't just stop within thatbuilding and ultimately you can
branch out.
Your ministry can look sodifferent.
Can branch out, your ministrycan look so different, and I
think sometimes we attachministry or serving to a status
or a career path or whatever.
(17:31):
But in the Bible it's verysimple, right, like, as you know
your will for your life, youknow that God wants you is
ultimately love others, seek himabove all else, go, make
disciples right and baptizepeople and the Father and Son,
the Holy Spirit, like he, makesit very simple what that looks
like, and I think as a society,as humans, we have tried to
(17:53):
create it as something biggerthan what it is, and that's
something I'm working on in myown life.
Right, I know we have similarthings we're doing now right
with you know mentoring and youknow your counseling.
You're doing so many greatthings and I'm now embarking on
this journey with faith-basedmotivational speaking and now
(18:13):
doing you know mentorship, likelife coaching, and what I've
realized is that's a ministry aswell.
You know it's Christ-oriented.
That's a ministry as well, youknow it's Christ-oriented.
Therefore, it's a ministry andI think sometimes we can lose
sight of that and people can.
Maybe you can get into thepsychology of this.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I wonderwhat the effect is on people and
(18:38):
their mental health and the waythey view themselves when they
think that maybe what they'redoing is less than something
someone else right?
Um, and I think it's soimportant to remind yourselves
that we're all god's children,we're all equal.
What we're doing is equallysignificant as the other person
and we're, you know, followinggod and loving people and loving
(18:59):
him and our ministry can beanything.
It doesn't matter your career,doesn't matter where you're put.
There's no coincidences.
God's going to put you in theright situation at the right
time to do his will and hispurpose for you and his kingdom
ultimately to be glorified.
So I love that, because now youknow you're transitioned right
(19:20):
from being in the church and now, with you know, hope and Health
Hub.
Right Now you're branching out,but it's still ministry, right,
it's still Christ-based andyou're still navigating this and
everything like that.
So talk about maybe thattransition from going I know you
talked a little bit about it,but maybe what was your mindset
(19:41):
from going to a ministry withinthe church to now your ministry
being outside of the church.
How has that been mentally?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah, it's really
hard.
There's a normal well, acultural, maybe societal
understanding that when you'respiritually mature, what you do
is you go and you are a leaderin the church.
That's like the normal pathwayand you just become a spiritual
(20:10):
leader in the church, and I justdon't think that's accurate.
And so I feel like we grow asleaders and disciples and no
matter where God has us.
I've probably had way morein-depth ministry experiences
outside of the walls of thechurch, even though there's this
(20:31):
tension of feeling like,because you're spiritually
mature, you should be in thechurch.
And I also feel like there's adifference in calling and so,
whereas there are some peoplethat are called to a location
and that's their location insidethe four walls of a church and
(20:52):
that's where God has called them, I also feel like there are
people that are called to thecity and so or regionally maybe,
and so it those two things don,those two things don't really,
uh, meet well, because they'redifferent and so they're not
understood well maybe.
And so there's not a ton ofclarity when you're a spiritual
(21:15):
leader, but maybe you're aleader for the city, and so I, I
want my whole city and I knowthat people in the location also
want their whole city, exceptmy calling is not for the four
walls, and so it's a distinctionbetween the location and the
city, and sometimes that'sbigger and sometimes it's
(21:39):
smaller, and sometimes it's moreone-on-one and sometimes it's
in a group and so it just looksdifferent, but both are sacred,
and I feel like we also have anunderstanding that, even if you
work at a bank, that it's notsacred.
And the truth is is that, nomatter where you work, that role
(22:02):
is sacred to God.
And so does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Absolutely.
I totally agree, love that.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah, and I just feel
like we give like the four wall
leadership kind of a pedestalof this is where we should be,
going and I feel like every partof our world and every role
that we're in.
If you are a Jesus follower,then your role is 100% sacred,
(22:31):
regardless of what the stigmaaround a spiritual leader in the
church is.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
You killed.
That.
That was so well said and Icouldn't agree more and I
couldn't agree more, and that isthat is so amazing.
And I I would love to talk alittle bit more specifically.
Your what health and you knowhope specifically, what is your
target niche and your ministryarea?
(22:59):
I know you mentioned a littlebit about you know raising up
the leaders, and so they canwith the mental health aspect as
well, but can you go in alittle more detail about kind of
what is your mission and whatis your why and what's your
vision?
I'd love to hear those threethings.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Yeah.
So Hope and Health Hub is wasbirthed out of, first, my
calling.
Who am I and what do I want tooffer?
What is my, you know, in mylife?
If I'm going to offer my lifeas a sacrifice, really, and as a
form of worship, then what do Ihave to offer?
And so the two things that Ifeel like I have to offer is the
(23:36):
hope of Christ and theunderstanding of health.
So that's where Hope and HealthHub came from, and I really
wanted to be a hub for our cityand fill some gaps in our city,
and so there are three thingsthat I offer.
I offer individual counseling.
I'm growth-focused, short-termtherapy, so for me, I don't see
(23:58):
people weekly such as normaltherapists would, and the reason
for that is that our waitinglist in our city is about four
months to get into our mentalhealth system or to see a
counselor, and so I wanted to beavailable, and so I do sit with
people one-on-one.
But I also offer workshops andI offer support groups, and so,
(24:21):
because of the way our cultureis the digital age, all of my
workshops are offered online.
So I have four standardworkshops right now the cloud
tool workshop, identity andresilience, health and security
and solutions, and those arefour areas where everybody needs
help all the time, like it'sjust standard and so, um, and
(24:46):
then I have some toolboxes thatare called wellness toolboxes.
That's what I would teach in asupport group.
Somebody struggling with grief,anxiety or any emotional
support needs, um, and those arelike 10 minute or less tools
that can just help build healthin a certain direction.
And my one of my pet peeves,kind of, is we talk about mental
(25:09):
health, but a lot of people arereferring to mental illness,
and when I think about mentalhealth, I think about how can we
be healthy in our mind healthyin our mind, and so not
(25:30):
necessarily just a diagnosis, or, you know, I'm more like hey
well, how healthy are you today?
Like on a scale of one to 10,where's your mental health at?
And then we can go from thereand adjust.
So Hope and Health Hub reallywas birthed out of a mission to
be able to not step oversomeone's mental health to try
and give them Jesus, but addressthe need at hand, which is how
(25:53):
can I be healthy in this crazyworld and what?
What do I need to do?
What's my next step?
And then I hope that my lifeshows the hope of Christ and I
can tell you it has.
I have a few clients who havegotten saved and just yes,
(26:14):
praise Jesus, and so being ableto partner with people in their
health, and I believe that Godcan heal.
So for me, you know, I believethat we don't have to live.
We're always going toexperience trials and
tribulations and pain and thesuffering of life, but we can be
(26:35):
as healthy as we possibly canthrough those.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Hmm, I love that and
so I'm going to kind of open up
a can of worms or beans here.
That I think is reallyfascinating, which I love.
So I'm not sure I want to botchtheir last name.
I apologize if they ever watchthis, but have you seen the
father son duo named CliffNectile or Stuart Nectile?
(26:59):
Have you heard of them?
They're like these pastors.
They're awesome.
Well, they go to like collegecampuses or really anywhere and
they'll preach the gospel, butwhat they do is they'll allow
anybody kind of give them anyobjection they want.
And sometimes these students areruthless and one of the
students came up to one of them.
(27:20):
They said the son, his name isStuart, he's also a licensed
therapist and in addition to Ibelieve he's got a master's in
divinity, like he's very youknow, he's very well educated in
multi different ways.
But what he was talking about.
One of the students was like doyou incorporate your faith into
(27:43):
your therapy?
And he said my wife did, mywife does, I before I, where I
was working, I used to work foran organization.
I wasn't allowed to, but I hadto take a step back and start my
own thing where I could.
And they asked him why?
And he said I, I, I want to.
I don't know if it was verbatim, but essentially he said it was
(28:06):
like I was offering band-aids.
It wasn't like I was going tothe root issue and he was
basically saying a lot of peoplethat are struggling with some
of the things, the reason theygo to therapy is what's my
meaning, what's my purpose,what's my why, what's going on?
And I can relate to that in thesense of coaching.
(28:27):
When I was coaching an athleteand I was like, hey, let's do
this drill, the first thing thekid would do tell me why.
That's ridiculous.
Why would I do this drill?
But if I said, hey, you want tohit some doubles tomorrow, this
is going to help to get yourbackside activated or whatever
the case may be, it's going tobenefit you.
And so we're talking aboutincorporating your faith right
to Christian counseling and howyou really get to address
(28:51):
ultimately what the healer yousaid Jesus can heal, right, I
believe that as well, but it cango together.
It's not one or the other, andI believe that if you look at it
from a biblical perspective,and I believe that if you look
at it from a biblicalperspective, they are
intertwined and I love that.
(29:12):
So talk about kind of how youintertwine your faith into the
counseling, if you wouldn't mind, and how that goes in the
process through, maybe what asession would look like if you
don't mind.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Sure.
So I want to back up and talkabout the relationship between,
like, the spiritual world andpsychology.
Um, and the reason why isbecause it's important that we
understand what we're actuallyup against.
And I did not grow up in anenvironment where psychology was
utilized at all.
(29:43):
No, secular counseling wasreally, and I want to say aloud,
I want to be generous there,but there was just no space
there because I was a pastor'skid where we did believe that
the Bible could heal but therewere also not very many
Christian counselors.
So a lot of the healing comesfrom groups and Bible studies
(30:09):
and worship services and healingservices, stuff like that.
And when I got into psychology,I had to address this very issue
because I had to go well, whatdo I believe?
Psychology is the study of themind, how the mind functions and
how the mind functions andaffects the body and how the
(30:30):
body can affect the mind.
That's it.
The problem is is that we um in, uh in the forties, um, when,
uh, well, let's go back 1880s tothe 1920s where Freud came in
and he was kind of a perv and sohe, he kind of wrecked a lot of
(30:52):
the 40s, 50s and 60s, themovement of humanistic
psychology where it came in andso many people got spiritual in
the fanning out of psychologyreally hit the church sideways.
And so while there were a lotof really good Christian
(31:13):
psychologists like Alfred Adlerand and the problem is is they
just got buried by a lot ofweird stuff, by a lot of weird
stuff.
So the church kind of was likenope, we're just, we just it's,
(31:35):
we just don't have anypsychology, because they all got
weird and the unfortunate partis we missed a lot of like the
understanding and the tools thatwere necessary to unlock brain
and body to combine with thesoul.
And so when I got intopsychology, I really had to
address like, what did I believeand why do I believe it and why
am I learning this?
(31:56):
So my choice in this was to goto a Christian university, a
private Christian university,because I wanted to keep my
faith.
And they have done anincredible job of really laying
the foundation of psychology sothat we're understanding what is
going on.
So all the neuroscience and allof that stuff in the brain, how
(32:17):
it affects us, and the body, howdoes the body affect the brain,
and so, coupled with a biblicalstudies degree, it's like this
incredible trinity ofinformation that really affects
us every single day, and it'sdynamic.
The problem is is that we can't.
(32:39):
Let's just take a body problemlike fat.
Okay, we can't pray away ourfat, it's an impossibility.
So we also can't pray awayanxiety, and so God calls us not
(33:00):
to be anxious, and prayer isdefinitely part of the tool set
that we need.
But we also have a body issueand a body problem that we have
to deal with, which might becaused by a brain issue, which
needs a brain solution.
So we have soul solutions thathave healing, and we have mind
solutions and we have bodysolutions, and all of those
things function as one wholehealthy human being.
(33:23):
So what that looks like in acounseling session is what needs
to be addressed.
Do we have a mind beliefproblem, do we have a conviction
issue, or do we have a bodyissue that's really affecting us
?
And so my job as a counselor isto assess and evaluate what are
(33:44):
we really dealing with?
What's the root?
And so there are some peoplewho have a conviction issue and
they don't know where they fitand they don't know truth, and
that needs to be the first thing.
And then we have, like badthinking systems and all kinds
of stuff in our brain.
And then we also have anxietythat needs to be dealt with and
tools, you know, just regulartherapeutic tools to be able to
(34:09):
like how can I connect my brainand my body together?
Like breathing and, you know,like working out.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yeah, I mean this is.
I'm so happy we got in thisconversation because I love this
.
As someone who is disabledphysically, I think there's so
many things that go in alignmentwith psychology, mental health,
(34:40):
physical health.
Like you said, it's an alltogether, it's a trinity, right,
there's everything spiritual,and why I think this is so
amazing is because, you know, Ithink about this parable that,
like I've always, like you know,my dad would always tell me all
the time, because I would bethis stubborn kid that like,
even if I didn't, if I had pain,I just would push through it.
(35:04):
That's just what I did.
I was just like you know what,I'm gonna keep going.
But my dad would always tell methis story.
He's like, dude, he's like, youknow, it's a story about the
two boats and the helicopter.
He's like, you know, this guy'sin the water drowning, right
and and he's like he's dying.
His boat comes right andthey're like hey, you know, you
need help.
He's like, no, god's got me,he's gonna come save me.
(35:26):
I'm good, boom, you know.
Another boat says the samething no, I'm good, I got, you
know, god's gonna come, miracleme, he's gonna do it.
Boom, great helicopter's.
Like, bro, you're pretty muchdead, like you need some help.
You're like no, god's gonnacome down and get me.
The dude dies and he's like yoGod, why did you not save me?
He said I did.
I sent you two boats and ahelicopter.
(35:48):
And I think why I bring this upis there's so many resources.
People are like God's going toperform a miracle.
What if his miracle is by yougoing to meet that therapist
that's faith-based to help youin your situation?
Or what if your miracle isgoing to see the doctor and to
get the cancer treatment?
I believe in praying away, youknow.
I believe in healing.
(36:09):
I believe in those things.
But I believe we also have toput ourselves in a position to
receive a miracle right.
You know, I believe that Godcan perform miracles.
I've seen it in my own life.
I've seen it in other people'slives.
My dad would always make thisjoke.
He's like Jesus isn't going tocome down here and magically,
miraculously, do something.
If you're just sitting on thecouch eating Doritos, playing
Xbox, like, what are you doingto get yourself in a position to
(36:32):
receive the miracle Right?
And I think that's so importantin this aspect, in the mental
health world and in all aspectsof life that guys like, like we
all are Christians or if you'renot a Christian.
As believers, we believe weserve an all-knowing,
all-powerful, all-loving God,but I believe he's given us so
(36:53):
many resources and the free willto be able to access these
resources that he has given thegifts and abilities to
individuals and education toserve his children and us.
Being defiant in trying to dodifferent things, by not working
(37:14):
through these things isultimately we're harming
ourselves and puttinglimitations on God and putting
God in a box, and so I just lovethat you are on fire for this
and making so many amazingchanges in people's lives, which
is amazing, and one of my youknow inspirations is always, you
know, in this, in this aspectthat I'm in now with the
(37:35):
motivational and inspirationalspeaking and kind of mentoring,
you know my, my journey withpeople right now is where I'm at
, and maybe you can understandthis a little bit too is.
I believe there's a lot ofpeople out there I'm just going
to use this example Like I lovehelping people with disabilities
journey through doing the bestwith what God gave them.
(37:57):
I believe that there's a lot ofgreat advocates out there that
are trying to work with thegovernment to make better ADA
laws, or they're working withdifferent nonprofits, but I
don't see a lot of people thatare helping people with
disabilities today.
How are you going to do thebest of what you're giving today
?
What I mean by that is likeokay, let's say, 25 years down
(38:19):
the road, great, it's a perfect,all-inclusive world.
I still doubt that's the reality.
But what can we do today tohelp these individuals navigate
the journey and the challengesthat they're up against?
Looking at it through biblicalprinciples, who God's calling
them to be?
And I just love to hear whatyou're doing, because it's a
similar avenue that I feelcalled to as well.
(38:41):
And as far as the psychologyand the mentoring slash, like
I've, I've even thought aboutgetting you know doing Christian
counseling down the road aswell.
Um, but I just so thankful yousaid that because I see these
videos sometimes on on socialmedia.
Or it's just like just got topray harder, you just gotta you
(39:02):
know, or or you just gotta bebetter and all these other
things, and it's just so sad,like that's not the reality,
like it goes together.
Prayer, like you said, can help, but God gives us resources
like people like yourself, andmedication for the ones that
need it and other things rightTo to be able to work through
these things, um, but I'm sohappy that you were able to dive
(39:25):
into that, um.
Now the next you know uhquestion or or topic I'd love to
dive into is so you're, you'redoing the hope and health hub.
Now, I struggle with thissometimes, and we're similar in
this way, I'm sure is we'repouring out to people constantly
.
Right You're?
You're probably having to hearsome heavy stuff.
(39:46):
Right, I'm in the care ministry, where I'm at my church, and
they're weekend week out.
I'm hearing some like, wow,okay, like Lord, I need you to
come into this moment with meand the individual.
How can we navigate this?
But how are you filling yourcup up while, ultimately, other
people pouring out onto you,right?
(40:06):
And what does that balance looklike for you?
What are some things that maybethat you do to keep your cup
filled when you're servingothers?
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Yeah.
So this is a great questionbecause I really believe in
caring for the ministry leader'ssoul and this is it's so
important and, as I said, aboutbeing able to worship with my
life.
If I am not living as anexample of the things that I'm
(40:37):
teaching, then that's not okay.
That would come across ashypocrisy, right?
So I have taken very seriously,in very like heart conviction,
emotional stability, and soemotional stability and or
(40:59):
mental health is social,emotional and physical, and so
for me, I have some prettystrict boundaries in my life
when it comes to my sleep, myeating habits, my hours that I
work.
I really know that there is anever-ending ministry, but I
(41:25):
also believe that it would beimpolite and improper for me to
sit down with somebody if I'mnot a hundred percent and well,
a hundred percent is, most ofthe time, not possible.
I also believe that if I'mgoing to pour into somebody,
then my cup has to be full.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
And so Bible studies
for me are really important.
Worship is really important.
I actually lead worship once amonth for Celebrate Recovery.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
They are probably the
best worshipers on the planet,
and so everyone's so raw andopen and like willing, and it's
amazing.
So, um, we'd love to have youout to Kingman to come to our
recovery, so, um, but that's I.
Ha, I'm really careful digitaland social media.
(42:21):
My life is very public and somy private life is definitely
private.
I'm careful with what I shareabout my private life.
I'm, you know, a wife and I'malso a grandma and I have kids.
So I know I have twograndbabies and so, but I don't,
I don't share a lot of that, sothat's something that doesn't
(42:43):
get wrapped up in my family.
And I also am quite weird A lotof weekends I shut my phone off
.
So from Friday night to Sundaynight, I like to shut my phone
off as long as I'm not traveling.
I have a bat phone.
(43:04):
We call it a bat phone.
It's a land line, like it'sweird.
And so I have a phone that, youknow, only a couple people have
and they know that if my phoneis off, they can call that phone
.
Or or you can show up to myhouse, like you know, if you
really need me, you can show up.
But it's really helpful for thebrain and the soul to rest.
(43:29):
I really believe in Sabbath.
One of our big words areSabbath hard and so if we're
going to work hard and we'regoing to play, hard.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Then we really need
to Sabbath hard.
I don't have my Sabbath hardshirt on, but you have one?
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Oh, I need one of
those.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I can get you one of
those, so, but that's really I.
I believe we have so muchanxiety, but our bodies weren't
(44:07):
either, and we glorify busyness,we glorify working too much and
not paying attention to ourbodies, and so I'm really
careful about those aspects ofmy life to remain full.
I also have good people whospeak into my life often and
(44:28):
tell me if I'm off track.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
So it's good.
That's awesome.
You touched upon some amazingaspects throughout that little
part there, because I think it'ssuch an important part.
I think one of the parts that Iwrestle with is I'm that person
that I wrestle with is, youknow, I'm, you know that person
that I don't sleep very well andthat you know, in a way, it's
(44:54):
okay, but it also right.
I can understand how I can seewhen I'm truly tapped into the
spirit, when I'm truly tappedinto the spirit, when I'm fully
rested and being able to be youknow who God really called me to
be, or when days I'm just kindof running, just going right,
and you know you talk about um,maybe this is, I don't know.
(45:19):
This probably came to my headbecause it's something that I'll
just be honest on my wrestlewith.
But I'm a very empathetic andsympathetic person.
That's just my who I am, andone of the things that I'm
getting mentored through rightnow is how to journey through.
I'm in the care ministry, so youknow it can be.
It's heavy, right.
(45:39):
We have a 24 hour churchhotline at Central.
I serve in that once a week andit's awesome.
It's really rewarding when youget to lead someone through the
salvation prayer.
You know you get another one onthe arc like that is such a
rewarding.
But on the flip side, 85% ofthe calls are not those phone
calls right, and so for me it'slike, okay, I'm the person that
(46:07):
you know, my dad very well andI'm a lot like my dad.
We're very much solution-driven, we want to help people, we
want to intercede, right andunderstanding.
One of the things God'steaching me right now is what
you did for me 15 plus years ago, which you planted a seed even
though you didn't see it growinstantly.
And one of the things that I ampersonally right now working
(46:31):
through is I know what God'sdone in my life and I'm so
excited for other people to feelthat same way and to have that
breakthrough in their own lives.
But I understand that it'staken me 10 plus years to get to
this point Right, and I'm notsaying I have it all figured out
.
I'm not claiming that at all.
(46:51):
Trust me.
I got my own issues.
But in the same flip side ofthat, my empathy and sympathy
with hearing people's stories iswanting to try to help them now
and it's.
I struggle putting that boundary, that like.
There's times where I'm justlike, hey, I, you know, whatever
the case may be, and andobviously in the church, you
(47:12):
know, I set those boundaries alot better, but outside the
church it's like I'm givingrandom people my number, be like
, hey, I'm gonna get you food,like I got you, like here's my
business card, like let's makeit happen, you know, let's,
let's do these things, and, um,so how would you, I guess, maybe
to me or to anybody out therethat is really just serving
(47:32):
people, what are some ways?
You're just like, okay, well,someone once told me that, like
God puts you into this person'ssituation for that moment, but
for that moment, but once thatmoment's over, you got to give
it back to God, and that's whatI continually try to remind
myself.
It's like for that momentyou're there with them, but
after that you just got to letit go.
(47:53):
You got to pray about it, notlet it go, like this like, but
in a sense like submit it backto God.
Right, and I guess that's a bigthing.
That's helped me.
But what is some advice maybefor you I'm sure you probably
hear some heavier things and andhow do you maybe not let the
that affect you and trickle intoyour personal life and life and
and uh set those boundaries.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Yeah, those are
really really hard boundaries.
So it's a learning curve.
So give yourself a little bitof grace, because you'll get
better at it.
The closer you get to God, youget better at it.
But some of the stories getharder.
So this is my process.
(48:36):
First of all, I'm a sympath, sofor me I don't feel what others
are feeling and I candefinitely be empathetic.
But, um, empaths have a reallyhard time and so I I feel for
you, because it's hard to do.
And this is this is my process,because when you hear that
(48:58):
amount of material and content,when you hear that amount of
material and content, people'sstories, there's like a cable,
like a transatlantic cablebetween you and them now,
because you share in their pain.
(49:25):
And for me, the moment somebodywalks out of my office, I go oh
God, I'm releasing them back toyou.
Please take care of them, givethem wisdom and discernment for
every single client, becauseit's so important that I don't
take responsibility for not onlytheir life but their progress
and their process, and it's histo manage.
And I am just this conduit.
(49:45):
If you will this, you know thissoft place that they can fall,
that I can come in and be a partof their story, a seed, you
know, or I can water it,whatever it is, but the moment
they walk out of my office I amand I use the word release I'm
releasing them into God'sjustice and God's plan and God's
(50:08):
glory and all of his wisdom.
So I can do everything in mypart, but I still have to
release them into God's care.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
I love that.
That's so and that's easiersaid than done.
You know, and I know your heartand everything's.
That's so, and that's easier,I'm sure, said than done.
Um, cause I you know and I knowyour heart and everything, but
that's such.
I love the part that you saidum, you know, it convicted me in
a good way.
It's like the closer you get toGod, the easier it gets, and I
felt that now, from where I amnow, from where I was before, it
(50:38):
is getting easier and so what?
It's becoming that fulldependence on him, right, and I
love that aspect there.
The last two things.
I don't want to take too muchof your time today.
I know you talked a little bitabout what you do, setting
boundaries and things like that,but what do you do on a
day-to-day basis to keep God atthe center of everything you do?
(51:01):
Ultimately, your career isChrist-centered, but what do you
do to stay Christ-centered inyour personal life, in all
aspects of your life?
If someone were to listen, whatwould you recommend to them to
keep Christ at the center ofeverything they do?
Speaker 2 (51:19):
Yeah, so I really
believe that we're supposed to
be in community and I reallybelieve that that community is
supposed to be equal and we aresupposed to have people in our
life who hold us accountable,and accountability is a good
thing We've always made, likeyou know.
Discipline and accountabilityare like these words, you know,
(51:43):
and it's like no, it's sohealthy and so, um, reading
God's word is just absolutelyimportant.
I'm an audible learner, likeyou, so for me, being able to
listen to God's word is where Iland.
Um, I'm also.
I also challenged myself a lot,um, the we did a book hub this
(52:03):
year, and so we went fromfinding God to experiencing God,
to hearing God, and so rightnow, we're listening to the book
Hearing God, and it isphenomenal.
It's by Dallas Willard, it'sjust amazing.
So we're like using our skillsto hear God better in our lives
(52:25):
and I feel like, um, I have ashirt on that says grow anyway
Like there's this point where wehave to choose in our life to
take usually extreme pain andturn it into exponential growth.
And so it is, and so we have togrow anyway.
And so, wherever you are inyour life, there's a point where
(52:50):
you are going to have to chooseto grow, and there's there's
power in understanding that youhave to grow.
Um, but it takes a, an action,it's not just going to happen,
and so I'm not going to justlike take my Bible and put it on
my head and hope that it fallsin.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
Yeah, that way.
So if I am getting closer toGod, then I have to do my part
in our relationship.
I have to be willing to takethe steps necessary.
Just like we're spending timetogether right now, but am I
spending time with God?
(53:34):
And there's for me aconversational intimacy that I
have with God that it doesn'tever shut off.
It's my life, and so that is amore learned.
It's not a human thing Likeit's.
It's it's very much, yeah, it's, it's very much.
(53:55):
This process of I am willing togrow in my relationship with
Christ every day, and that meansthat not only am I going to do
my part, but I want God to dohis part too, so he gets to
speak in and tell me where togrow.
Speaker 1 (54:14):
That's awesome.
I love that, because reallytaking a step back and removing
your pride right Like I'm in mymen's Bible study and we're in
Romans right now and like thecommon theme that's been coming
up for us is, just like you know, denying the flesh, removing
the pride Right.
And I think you know, when youare leaning into God, every day
(54:39):
you're reminding yourself thatit's not you, it's him that
you're dependent on, right, andI think that's such an important
aspect to being able to justlive a life that God wants you
to live, which is such a greatpoint.
And talking about thataccountability, you know I'm in
the season right now where Ijust got my spiritual mentor.
(55:01):
God revealed something to melike a month or so ago.
He's like dude, you're pouringinto so many people, but who's
pouring into you?
And I look back into my lifeand I'm like I've always been a
leader, I've always coached,I've always been in a position
to lead others.
I've never, besides my parentsand besides my direct
relationship with God, I'venever really had anybody pouring
(55:22):
to me spiritually Right.
And so God was like dude, likeyou need to pray on this and
it's perfect, like the Lord,connect me with someone.
That's awesome Been on theirjourney for a long time with
Jesus and it's going great.
But I think you hit the nail onthe head with that is
accountability so important,right, and you mentioned earlier
that by the way that you liveyour life, by the way your feet
(55:47):
move, that's how people will seejesus through you, right, and I
think you need someone in yourlife to be honest with you so
you're not living that hypocrisy, right lifestyle, hypocrite
lifestyle, right, and andultimately, we want to see.
You know we talk about God, useus, ok, but are we going to do
(56:08):
what it takes to be ready to beused?
You know, and I think that'ssuch an important aspect.
So, last thing, I want to wrapup here with two things would
just be you have any last wordsfor the listeners, that just
kind of whatever you think wemissed upon, or maybe I went on
a rant about something that youwant to, you know, interject
(56:29):
something, and then after thatI'd love to hear anything that
you got going on here soon, orany projects you're working on,
or anything that you'relaunching or doing that you want
to put the listeners on.
Speaker 2 (56:42):
Yeah Well, I just
super appreciate your candor,
and I feel like this topic thespiritual world and psychology
is kind of misunderstood, and soI so appreciate your ability to
(57:04):
articulate, number one, what'sgoing on in the church and
ministry, but also what'shappening outside the walls.
I just think it's reallyimportant that we give it value
and the value that it deserves,and so I super appreciate that.
And, for me, the one thing thatI'm working on right now I have
(57:25):
two um journals out right nowand I have the cloud tool
journal, which is like how do Iactually deal with my emotions,
how am I actually processing,how am I doing that?
And so it's a very simpleprocess, and so I have the cloud
tool journal.
I also have the cloud tooljournal Journal for Marriage
that Dennis and I put together,and right now I am working on
(57:47):
the CloudTool for Generation Z,which just happens to be you.
Speaker 1 (57:53):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (57:54):
So I feel as if
there's a generational gap that
has happened, where some of usolder generations don't really
understand the mental healthfield, and so I'm trying to give
them kind of the why, how andthe now of Generation Z, which
(58:15):
is why does it even matter?
How do we even address mentalhealth and what are the
application purposes?
What are the application thingsthat we need to do?
How do we actually teach it toGeneration Z?
And so it's a dual purposejournal, and so I'm
collaborating with a few otherpeople to really just understand
(58:37):
mental health better and givesome language to, not only for
you, but by you.
So I'm working with other GenZers to make sure that it is
something that we need to workon together, because I just
believe that intergenerationalneeds to happen, that we need
(59:02):
each other, and so we need thosepeople that are pouring into us
, and we also need to be able topour into the next generation.
And so if that's the case, thenI need to understand mental
health, but so does every otherparent, and you need to be able
to explain that to the peoplewho don't understand.
And so it's this dual purposefor Generation Z by Generation Z
(59:28):
, but also a tool that can beused by Generation Z.
Speaker 1 (59:32):
That's great.
I mean, that's going to do alot of wonderful things and I
love how it's multipurpose.
It's not just for the people ofGen Z, it's not just for the
people of Gen Z, it's to alsoeducate people of other
generations to how they can walkwith a person in Gen Z and the
things that ultimately, you knowthey're having to deal with on
(59:52):
a day-to-day basis.
But totally random y'all.
But I'm going to drop this seedin here.
Squirrel moment.
Speaking of Dennis, my dadalways says this and I still
pull it out, pull it out everyonce, while I want to know if he
says it and my dad will gigglego ha ha.
That's funny.
But funny, don't make it right.
Does he still say that?
but yes, he still says that hesays it so that my dad will say
(01:00:16):
it all the time.
He'll always be like my goodfriend dennis would always say
ha, ha, ha, that's funny, butfunny don't make it right, and
so so that's like our old joke.
Now too, I'm like we say thatall the time, but that's awesome
.
Well, we really appreciate youtaking your time out of your day
.
I know you're so busy doing somany great things and just it's
(01:00:37):
beautiful to see when someone isbeing led by the spirit but
also being obedient, right, andI think that's the biggest thing
you know.
And just to anybody listening,guys like use her story and what
she's doing on a day-to-daybasis to yeah, you know we're
(01:00:59):
all wrestling with differentthings, but use your story that
you have as an individual to gomake a difference, be a vessel
for God.
You don't have to have it allfigured out.
Look at your past, look at thethings that you've experienced,
see the gifts you have and seehow you can serve others and
whatever capacity you can.
And I think Amy's a wonderfulexample of that and we're just
(01:01:20):
super grateful to have her onthe podcast today.
And you know, ultimately I'lljust pray us out here.
I pray out of all of ourepisodes.
I just think you know,ultimately we do this for God's
glory and to educate hisbelievers on how we can grow
together.
So you know, lord, god, dearHeavenly Father, I just want to
thank you for this opportunitytoday.
Lord, god, dear Heavenly Father, I just want to thank you for
(01:01:41):
this opportunity today, god,just thankful for the family,
friendship of Amy's family andthe Obergs and all the things
that they've done in our lives,but all the things that she's
done in other people's lives toserve you and give you the glory
.
But ultimately, Lord, there's somany more people that she's
going to be impacting throughouther life, more people that
she's going to be impactingthroughout her life, leading
(01:02:03):
them to you and just journeyingwith Jesus alongside these
individuals that need thatassistance.
God, and we just thank you forbeing able to tackle some
subjects today that just aren'ttalked about enough but still
deserve to be talked about, thatneed to be talked about because
, god, we know that if we aren'tgoing to be the hands and feet,
(01:02:25):
who are?
And we are just thankful forthe opportunity to be able to be
the vessels for you, just thankyou and praise you and for all
the things you have done, allthe things you will do and
everything you are doing rightnow.
And, as you just made my prayer, amen.
Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
Amen, thank you so
much for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
Yes, of course.