September 19, 2023 • 35 mins
Welcome to "Catie and Erik's Infinite Quest," the ultimate podcast for neurodivergent adults navigating life with ADHD. In this episode, join hosts Cate and Erik as they dive deep into the world of ADHD and discuss the challenges of undertaking big projects while living with neurodivergent minds. They still can't tell you what it is but they promise it's going to be really cool.
Are you tired of feeling overwhelmed by your to-do list? Do you struggle to prioritize tasks and get things done efficiently? If so, you're not alone! Cate and Erik share their personal experiences and insights on how to harness the unique strengths of an ADHD brain while creating effective working systems.
Learn more about Geek Therapeutics' training courses, books and therapy services here:
www.geektherapeutics.com
(and don't forget to use code InfiniteQuest for 10% your order of books and courses!
Find us on TikTok, Twitter and Instagram at:
@catieosaurus
@heygude
Listener email: ask@infinitequestpodcast.com
Media/Business Email: infinitequestpodcast@gmail.com
Find all of our links and cool stuff at: www.infinitequestpodcast.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
You ready be. Don't put stuff on.
Don't hold. The table ohh my name is Katie
Ohh. Ohh.
Look at me. Hello.
I was trying to sing the last name, but then I just did the
NPR. With oh shit, they are similar,
(00:28):
aren't they? Yeah, what is the NPR one?
All things considered with Paisley Apple bottle.
And then at the end. It goes right.
Something like that. Yeah, you sang it.
In one of the last episodes, yousang it like before the
(00:48):
commercial break. I think you were like you were
pretty close. I overlaid it with pretty close.
Very good. Hi everybody.
How's it going, everybody? It's me, Katie Sorens.
Yes, hi. Hello, and it's me.
Hello good and. Welcome back to Infinite Quest
Infinite Quest, which is the name of our podcast.
I'm just going to go ahead and start off real.
I'm just going. To T us right up you're.
(01:11):
Ready. Hi, dear listener.
How are you? Good.
I couldn't hear you. I'm sorry, but I hope you're
doing well. Actually, you know what?
Answer me even though I can't hear you.
Hi dear listener, how are you? How are you freely?
No, you interrupted them. They were probably considering
whether or not they were going to talk, although in their car.
But you know, anyways Steel listener, we've alluded to this
(01:31):
like 1,000,000 billions times and I'm so fucking don't want to
be like the content creator who's like hey, sorry there's no
content other stuff cuz you can only get away with that for so
long and we've been doing that for like a year, but we're also
there's a very. Good reason?
Why we're engaged. We're engaged in another
project. We're doing other project that.
We can't legally. We can't tell you what it is.
(01:53):
We're not allowed to tell. You but if you want to send your
guesses to, ask it if you can't.And it is a thing that requires.
A lot of work. On a staggering amount of work.
I'm really kind of shocked aboutit.
I mean, I knew it was going to be a lot of work.
Yeah, but I didn't think it was going to be this hard.
I'm just. So hard.
(02:13):
It's so hard anyway. Sorry, I interrupted.
No, that's right and. And like I this is what well, I
mean, I I mean like shoehorn 80HD to it, but I gots it.
But like. I keep thinking like a person
who with like solid working executive functions could have
(02:34):
so fucking lutely do the projectthat we're working on, as well
as keeping up with the podcast, keeping up with like Twitch,
like keeping up with all the other stuff because they do all
the time, but like. For us, whenever we try to divvy
out part time between the other thing and the this and the other
stuff like I my brain, I. It's Okay.
(02:58):
My brain came like that feeling of I'm never convinced that I'm
doing the thing that I should bedoing.
You know like the priority shuffling that just gets kicked
to the Max. Because it's all, it's all
important. It's all important.
Like if we. Only only only work on the big
project and nobody's going to give a shit when it comes out
because nobody will remember whothe fuck we are cuz we haven't
done anything in two years or whatever.
(03:19):
But if we split our time then like you know, I feel like we're
half assing 2 things rather thanwhole assing one thing.
And like it would be really niceto just like be like alright
this is this project is the onlything that we're doing but like
that's how this works baby. Like we have a relationship to
like all of y'all and like talking to you and I feel like
we've been like friends that have, just like.
Moved away and have it called written and I feel bad.
(03:41):
But anyways, we're working on a big fucking motherfucking thing,
and I think we're coming to terms with the fact that, like,
we have to just, yeah, accept that we're not going to be able
to crank out stuff. It's like, I always think about
that. Have you ever seen that video
of, like, the professor who puts, like, the golf balls in
the jar? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's like the big things are your job and you feed me man,
and. Then he puts the the gravel in
(04:02):
the sand. Yeah.
And I was like, I always think about that video, cuz I'm like
that is not my experience. Like my experience is whatever
is sitting in front of me in that moment is the biggest ball
in the jar. And it's like I can like plan
and I can like put stuff on my calendar.
But it's like especially with this project and potentially the
other project about the. That one I'm I'm not even
(04:24):
letting myself think about that one.
But like that. It's it's there's not like a you
work. You know you put it on your
calendar to work for like an hour and then you're done.
It's like this weird constantly changing time is nebulous sort
of thing. And I think like that's the
hardest part for me because it'slike I'll sit down and be like
(04:47):
I'm going to finish this part, you know, or this thing and then
four hours later go by and that's not how you say that for.
Hours later, time has gone by, Ithink.
That's how I want to do. It.
But you know what I mean. And then it's like I've done
either way more than I thought Iwas going to do or I've I've
done one very small I've tried so hard not to use action verbs,
(05:13):
but like, you know what I mean. And so, like, that's the part
that I get frustrated like the other.
Day I was working on a part and I was like, oh, this is going to
take me 20 minutes. It's been 3 days.
Well, it's it's also, God damn it, this is so ridiculous that
we're like, we can't say it's soobvious what it is that we're
talking about because because wecould talk about it.
We talked about how we wanted todo it.
For a while we did, and that wastotally fine.
(05:34):
But now that we're actually doing it, we're not all sorry
and. Dear listener, we will also let
you know if you don't know what's going on, listen back few
episodes. Well, like 20.
Yeah. And also know that we will be
making the formal announcement soon.
We just have to wait for like the permission.
Yeah, they go ahead. Well, yeah.
What's also hard about this particular type of project is
(05:57):
like, I'll start working on a certain part of it.
This is so fucking so dumb a certain part of it.
And I'll be like this part of itis like just a couple things
like and then I'll think about it more and go well actually
this is kind of related to the other.
Well, actually. Larger content.
And then all of a sudden it becomes like this is a whole
thing in itself. And three days later you've got
(06:19):
nothing done. Well, another.
Thing is that this Jesus Christ,this particular type of project
is one of the projects where like.
TikTok is fast. Like it's it's if you spend too
long perfecting A TikTok trend video, like most of the time I
have ever tried to put trend video, you're never going to
post, you're going to miss the boat and you know it's better to
(06:40):
have it done than have to be perfect.
Or is this the type of project where it's like with the amount
of time that gets spent on it? Like you know, it's not like a,
you know, month, two-month, couple month thing.
It's like a several year long thing.
I don't want to pass up on actually this other interesting
thing that I didn't realize is connected to this other.
(07:00):
Like I want to have time to be able to explore all those
things. I really don't want to feel like
I'm half assing or leaving stuffout which is.
If I open them blinds, it's so dark in here and I'm so sad,
yeah. Absolutely, sweetie.
Of Cush. Of Cush.
Right. Blindfoly.
Yeah, Nice. Wow.
(07:21):
The old timey radio show. But yeah, that priority
shuffling where like I don't actually know if I've said like
priority shuffling. Ooh.
Like a Queen Bailey. Bailey's surveying her her
Kingdom. Nice.
But. I don't know if I've actually
said priority shuffling like on the podcast I probably have.
But priority shuffling is what Icall when you're have a thing
(07:42):
that you need to do when you start doing it, But as soon as
you start doing it, you're like,actually this other thing is
more important. Actually, this other thing is
more important. Actually this other thing is
more important. And no one thing stays at the
top of the priority list for long enough to make any
meaningful progress on it. So my priority shuffling is just
nuts now because there's a bunchof things, all of which are
actually important. And, like, all of which could be
(08:03):
like, I'm going to do this for an hour and a half, and then
this for an hour and a half. But even during those hour and a
half, even though I know that I've scheduled later to work on
that thing. The whole time I'm not working
on the thing. I'm just like, Oh my God, I
should be working on the thing. I should be working on the
thing. Unless I am working on the
thing. And then it's like, I should be
doing all this other stuff. I should be doing all this other
stuff. It's tough and.
(08:24):
I don't know. I think, God, this is so hard.
The thing about The thing is also a thing that we have to
start working on. Like we haven't started that
part of it at all and we have tolike that's part of it.
It's not. We gotta do the same for the
thing. This is really good podcast.
But you know what I mean? Like, like and I know what you
(08:46):
mean about because, well, the. Second thing doesn't exist
unless the first thing exists and is really good.
Yeah, you know. So I think the first step
towards the second thing is making sure the first thing is
fucking yeah. Really good.
But it's just fuck me, dude. Yeah, I know it's.
Weird. And so, yeah.
So anyway, all of that to say weare going to cut back on the
number of episodes that we drop.Sorry, I put up a point of order
(09:10):
hand here that is correct we arebut I also in point of that we
have cut back on the so I think we're more.
Rather than doing that thing where every week, Well, OK, so
like when I when I talk to Eric about wanting to talk about this
on the podcast, I like, I was like, hey, I want to put like a
concrete number on it. And the reason why was because
(09:32):
for me. It's like every week it's
Tuesday and Thursday and we're working on this other project
and we go we should make a podcast today or we have to make
a podcast today with that like oh shit, like we're letting you
all down and we're we're failingin our goal to accomplish
recording and editing and posting a podcast which honestly
(09:54):
like it takes a bit of time likeit.
It's we've streamlined the process but they're still like.
A couple of hours on the front end and back end, so it winds up
being a three to four hour process whenever we make a
podcast. Yeah.
It's like about half a day. And so every Thursday I'm
sitting at my desk and I'm like,oh fuck, we didn't make a
podcast for. Fucking failures for pieces of
(10:15):
shit. I hate myself.
Which is not good practice. And So what I really wanted to
do was I wanted to one be remodel realisticism.
But then also just because in that way, I think it's not it.
It sets us up for success because it, you know, posting a
(10:35):
podcast a month, maybe a little bit more like yes, Dear
Listener, we know that it's not going to be the same as getting
two podcasts every single week. But the thing that we're working
on is so important to us and it's so meaningful.
And it also frankly is the kind of thing that could change our
lives forever. Even more so than they.
(10:56):
Already have, even more so than than we already have.
And like at the start of this, when Eric and I like, met, we
joked about this kind of thing. We like, made jokes.
We're like, ha ha ha ha ha, as though all of this was pretend
and now it's not. And that is big and it's it's
scary and there's a lot of responsibility and there's a lot
(11:20):
of that sort of wanting to do right by everybody.
And so the the truth is, is thatright now we don't realistically
have two podcasts a week in US. And so rather than keep people
wondering and being that friend who moved away and then never
writes, we figured we would justkind of be upfront and say, hey,
(11:44):
this is what's going on that we can talk about to the best of
our ability when we can talk about it.
You're going to be tired of hearing us talk.
But for now, like we just wantedto be transparent about that,
because I think it's really easyto ascribe like that sense of
like failure or ascribe a sense of shame to it.
But it's like, no, like we're doing something really important
(12:06):
to us and so we want you to be along for the ride with that it
also. It also felt like when we were
like pushing to like, get keep getting podcasts out as we were
working on the thing, it felt like the podcast just ended up.
Because, like, I will not be. Like, my policy with the bug is
I will not be in genuine on the podcast, you know, like if I'm
(12:27):
feeling like absolute garbage, like that will be, you know,
because I think that's part of the point of the podcast from
the beginning is being honest about that kind of thing.
And so I feel like when we were pushing, all I was talking about
her feeling during podcast reporting was like, hey, I'm
exhausted and tired and I whatever.
Like all I had to say was about how fucking my brain was fried,
(12:48):
you know? And so hold on.
I have to meet the microphone soI can blow my nose.
Okay, I feel better. Hey.
That saved me. Saved me a second post.
All right, well, thank you. I shouldn't.
Subject people to the monstrous way in which I blow my nose.
But. Also, I mean, I think just gotta
(13:09):
be gentle with ourselves, lower our expectations in other areas,
which I think is sort of the function of this whole spiel
we've been giving you deer Raiders.
Is not necessarily saying that we know we already have cut back
on podcast, but it's more like we're accepting that that's just
gonna be the way it is for a minute and setting those
intentions not just for us, but also for all of you so you're
not worried or angry or bored, Yeah.
(13:32):
And I think the first big part of the project is due in
December. At the end of the year.
And so then the real truth is that from there, it's a huge
question mark. We don't know what 2024 is going
to look like in a lot of ways, which is kind of weird.
(13:55):
It's like weird to think about because it's like, I don't know
what the process is. I don't know how often we're
going to be, like waiting for. Emails.
I don't know how often it's going to be like us doing stuff.
Like, you know what I mean? I just have no picture of what
it's going to look like. And so I think part of this
podcast, too, is going to becomea little bit of that process and
(14:18):
like a journal and diary of thatprocess.
What I'd love to do, and I thinkthis is probably going to be the
case if God, I can't even say. Well, every time I arrive at a
I. Need to I'm sending that e-mail
that I've been forgetting to send right now.
Well, we're I'm. Hoping that when the people that
we are working with tell us it'sOK, I'm hoping we can just talk
(14:41):
about because the stuff that we're Jesus Christ, Oh my God,
it's so ridiculous. I can't like every time I have a
verb, nouns just cuz as we're working on this thing.
Like, it's generative and it provokes interesting
conversations between both me and Katie.
Then like, it's stuff that I would love to talk about on the
podcast. Like it's prime for.
Like, all right, let's talk about what we worked on today
(15:02):
and and the questions we have about it and whatever.
So I'm hoping once we can talk about the project, that's sort
of what it'll be. Which it would be fucking
incredible. I would have blown that so much.
I don't know if that's what it can be, but I think it's, I
think it's probably fine. But also Katie, another name for
carpet. Floor plan.
(15:24):
Floor plant, yeah. Nice.
That's good floor, grass floor. Grass, that was.
What I was thinking was inside grass.
That's good. I don't have one right now.
Another name for a microphone. Ringy Boy.
I rely on boy too much. I do.
I do. Make loud a talk here.
(15:48):
Talky here. Make your voice loud.
Time. Hey, can people not hear you up
talking to me? And then they will.
Guy. That's the stupidest fucking
thing. Fine.
Katie Another name for a speaker?
Sound hole. Okay, you win.
(16:10):
That was good. That was funny.
Thanks. Sorry I was just trying.
I was just throwing injecting some levy.
That's a fun game that you can play at home, dear listener.
Yeah, Yup. Well, actually, you know what?
We don't hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.
(16:32):
I'm just realizing we can talk about some of the stuff that
we've been working on. We just can't say, like, certain
stuff about it, but we can stillsay like, you know what I've
been thinking about lately? Yeah, you.
Yeah. Like we can do that.
You know what I mean? What have?
You been thinking about lately? What I've been thinking about
lately, What have? You been thinking about I've?
(16:53):
Been thinking about lately what I've been going default
behavior. So like you got yourself a
system. Well actually, well, I've been
thinking about a lot of things lately.
I'll try, I'll see if they're probably all going to mix into
one big thing. But why?
I was thinking about the point to let me let me table that
first full thing is that you don't need to have a system in
order to do something. Systems are great.
(17:13):
Systems help. Systems awful will the longevity
of you doing something, but it'snot absolutely necessary.
Because. Oh God, it's going to be hard
without, you know, talking aboutthe thing just because with the
amount that I, you know, we talkand think about systems, you
know, strategies for getting things done, essentially
(17:35):
strategies, methods and techniques for getting things
done. Essentially.
I never want to seem like we're saying they're.
Necessary their requirements. Like you shouldn't wait to
develop a system for doing your laundry to do your laundry like
you got to ham fist it and then you'll really appreciate your
system once you have one becauseyou won't be hand fisting
anymore but that. But then default behavior is
(17:56):
what I call when a system breaksdown.
So like you know you do your laundry every you know Monday or
something like that except one Monday you don't and then it
piles up and then everything gets fucked and the system
implodes. Like what is your default
behavior then? For me it's.
Not do the laundry. Yeah, not.
Do the laundry until I have an emergency on my hands and then
(18:16):
just dedicating a whole day to trying to get it through.
And so with default behavior. I keep thinking our default
behavior is usually at least gets the job done.
And I think systems can be builtor more easily built through
manipulating our default behavior than designing entirely
new behavior. So I've been trying to recognize
(18:36):
that in my own life lately. Where like.
When I'm dissatisfied with, you know some way that I am, you
know, like, oh, like my pliers, for example.
When I'm in the shop and I'm doing stuff, every time I put my
pliers down, it's like, fuck, I I've been then spend at least
another 10 seconds looking for them the next time I need them.
(18:57):
But I did notice, so I, you know, I'm just getting mad at
myself. I was like, okay default
behavior here. Let's let's Jeff Goldblum a
little bit. Let's study my own behavior
here. What?
Is there a place that I keep finding them when I do find
them? Turns out, yes.
Katie on my left, which is weirdbecause I'm right-handed.
So you'd think I'd be using the pliers and I would put them down
on my right, but they're usuallyon the left side of my desk
(19:19):
because I'll be using them. And then I'll put them into my
left hand in order to hold the work piece in my right, but
still hold the pliers and then realize that I don't need the
pliers anymore and set them downon my left.
So that is now where my little plier storage guys are.
Look at you, you know. So rather than be like, oh, I'm.
Such a fucking. Dumb shit, I should have.
Fuck it. Well, I mean I did plenty of
(19:40):
that, but try to work around your your already behavior
rather than trying to design like the pie in the sky.
If I were a person who was amazing, you know, like what is
the ideal way of doing it. That's why I.
Just put a Finder tag on the measuring tape, cuz I realized I
was never gonna oh. Did you?
I did nice. I.
Realized it was. Now we're gonna consistently put
it. Down in the same spot ever.
(20:02):
Even if I like, made it cuz I tried different things.
I like made like a little area. I was like, I'm always gonna put
it here. That didn't work.
And then I was like, OK, I want to put it over here.
That didn't work. And finally I was just like, you
wanna fuck here? I was just gonna put it where I
want to put it and then I'll just find it every time and
that's fine. Like that works.
It's maybe not the most like time, you know, cuz they gotta
walk over the little button, butlike whatever.
(20:23):
Yeah. You know, no, that's solid, I
mean. It's a.
It's a Serenity Prayer type thing.
Yeah, Serenity prayer type thing.
What does that even? What does that even mean?
Here? Why are you bringing up that?
What's that? No, it's the the serenity prayer
is, you know, God grant me the strength to accept the things or
the God. What is it?
Yeah, the serenity. It's God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change
(20:45):
the things that I can and the wisdom to tell the difference.
I'm not a religious man, but I just, I love those, those those
concepts. Because I think, yeah, life is
about figuring out what things you can change and what things
you can't. Because trying to change
something you can't is a waste of time.
And thinking you can't change something that you can is also a
waste of time and effort. And so I think when we're like
(21:07):
analyzing our own behavior and trying to figure out solutions
for our daily life, I think it'simportant to keep that in mind
because we can change, you know,little parts about our behavior.
Like, I don't care how bad your executive dysfunction is, you
can still, like, you know, take the trash out once a week so it
doesn't, you know. Eventually you will take the
(21:28):
trash out. We can alter our behavior, you
know, in slight ways, our default behavior in slight ways.
But ultimately, like our nature,the fact that we are people who
struggle with remembering to do basic shit and whatnot, that's
almost certainly not going to change, the sign says.
That's not going to change. You are always going to struggle
with that kind of stuff. You can get better at dealing
(21:49):
with the fact that you're naturally doing that stuff until
so so far to the point where like.
Some people think they sort of grow out of their ADHD because
they develop such good solutions, which is great.
But accepting that, like, certain core things about us are
always going to be things that we're needing to deal with.
And not being mad at ourselves or not being that other thing,
that other version of ourselves that can put the measuring tape
(22:10):
in exactly the same spot at the same time and going okay, I'm
not going to be that person. So given that, what is a
solution? Pop A tag on it.
I think that's a fucking great solution.
Groups, do you? Want to know something that
really grinds my gears? Oh.
Yeah, shout to Family Guy 2003. What you got is the idea that
that is a bad thing because like, I feel.
Sorry, that was a bad thing. That what you just talked about,
(22:32):
that idea of like, by nature, like I'm a disorganized person,
you know, whatever, you know. And so it's like, I think a lot
of people would hear that and they go, oh, well, that's so
like fatalistic. That's just no matter what you
do, you cannot change. And I think like, that is
something that I spent so much time worried about.
(22:55):
And like, what is the word that I want dealing with of that idea
of like, I am an inherently messy person, right?
And if you look it, it's sort oflike breaking that idea down,
like, OK, what is a messy person?
Like you know why am I messy? And so it's like okay.
I have like the organization component, I have the
(23:16):
impulsivity component, I have the executive function
component. Like there's different reasons
that a person becomes or like ismessy right.
And so like I think about the the coffee table.
So dear listeners I have like this like coffee table tray
where it consistently all the time gets covered in bullshit.
(23:38):
I don't know how it happens. I mean, I do is that we put
stuff on it. And so I decided that I was like
a fun experiment. I was going to like do my best
to keep that coffee tray like clear because I just like it
better. Like the aesthetic of it being
clear is like pleasant to me. But what I realized is that, and
I and I have been doing that, like I have genuinely been
(24:03):
working to do that. But that is a manual thing.
That is, every single day I walkout of my bedroom and I go right
and I like, take off the dishes or like I put away the stuff or
like Eric comes over and clears off his microscope and bowl of
pond scum. Real thing.
That's a real thing. I'd be like, Eric, please clean
(24:23):
up your blood and pond scum thatyou left on the living room
tray. I have.
A microscope. But, like, but it was that idea,
right? And so, like, I spent so much
time being like, Oh well, I shouldn't have to do that.
I shouldn't have to remind myself.
I shouldn't have to like, like, it should just come naturally.
And the truth is, like, it's never gonna, It's never gonna.
And like, I'm having a hard timearticulating exactly what I'm
(24:48):
trying to say. But, like, I remember being a
kid and, like, my parents criticizing me for being messy.
And they would always give me that.
Like, well, it's just so easy. Or why don't you just try
harder? And it's like, well, because I
don't know where to put the measuring tape.
And the measuring tape always gets put in a different like,
(25:09):
because that's how my brain works.
And so, like, for me, organization, cleanliness, or
like, at least not having like awhole foxtonic clutter around my
house. All of that comes from, like,
the manual decision to every single day be like, OKI got to
clear off the coffee table tray again.
And like, that sucks because I wish it was a little bit more
(25:29):
like natural, but it's not. And so that's just, that's what
I get, you know? Yeah.
The things I cannot change, yeah.
I think it's. Does that make sense?
Yeah. I think it's like a being a
realist but also acknowledging your agency, cuz I think like I
have a hard one. No, I think this is.
(25:50):
Also, one of those things that people can only ever answer
about themselves, but I think wecan always change what we do,
but we can't change who we are, what is who we are versus just
something that we do. I think that's the game
ultimately, that's that's the whole fucking thing.
Is figuring out is this something that I'm doing that I
can change or is this something that I am that I can't.
(26:11):
Well I think like systems play into a lot of that.
Like I've I as I've been thinking about systems I've been
sort of thinking genuinely thinking about like how.
The existence of of like a really good system often times
(26:35):
sort of like smooth that discrepancy and like bridges
that gap. So like for me it was like like
the junk drawers really good example.
Like I finally caved and I got little individual compartmenty
things and the junk drawer I'll.Say frankly, you know, but like,
I had to like take the time to go, OK, I need to actually like
(26:58):
make that system happen and instead of just having the jump
drawer and also I needed 2 jump drawers and that's fine, I'm
okay with that, you know what I mean?
But yeah. I don't know, just that idea of
like, I don't know where I was going with that, but systems I'm
really finding like systems are so powerful.
(27:19):
Oh, I know a thing. I know a thing that I was
trying. I was thinking about how to
think about Casey Davis said something fascinating on a
podcast the other day where she was talking about like, laundry.
And how laundry exists in like, a literal cycle of, like, you
have dirty laundry that is like being washed in the washer.
(27:41):
You have dry laundry, clean laundry in the dryer, then you
have clean laundry that's out ofthe dryer.
Then you have, like, laundry that is, like folded and hung
up. Then you have laundry that is
not. Then you have laundry that's
like, Nah, you wore it once, butyou could probably wear it
again. Then you have, like, dirty
laundry into that that. So it becomes like this cycle.
And so, like, there's probably realistically never going to be
(28:06):
a moment where, like, all of those cycles line up inside of
your household. And, like, so there's probably
always going to be like, a little bit of dirty laundry.
There's always probably going tobe like, a chair that has like,
a shirt on it or something. And that.
Like, like, I, because I've beenwatching a lot of home
organization shows, right? And the thing that always
(28:28):
fucking bothers me so goddamn much about all those fucking
shows, I don't know why I'm so mad about this, but I am, is
like, they do the whole closet right?
And they're like, OK, here's your system.
But, like, they have just enoughhangers for the stuff that's in
the closet, and they have just enough boxes for the stuff.
And I always go, what about the the stuff?
What about the lot, the stuff inthe dryer?
What about the stuff on the chair?
(28:49):
What about the stuff that you forgot that's like in the trunk
of your car, which is probably not a problem that a lot of
people have, but I do. And so like that idea of like
chores like that or like tasks like that existing on a cycle
was like because I feel like I can't clean up my closet unless
I have every piece of laundry that I own clean and ready to
(29:10):
hang up on the bed. But if you adjust that mentality
to think about it as being on a cycle, then what you're actually
dealing with is the clothes thatare in that portion of the cycle
right now as you're dealing withit.
And that's all you have to worryabout.
And then the next time that cycle comes around, you know,
OK, so the laundry needs to get folded.
(29:30):
That's when you do the, the goodwill sort.
That's when you do whatever. Yeah, I think that's smart.
Yeah, it's. I'm trying to think of a better
analogy, but it's sort of like a24 hour kitchen.
Yeah, like how do you clean a 24hour kitchen?
It's never closed all the way. Literally never thought well.
You close sections of it. It's that way Waffle House is
always disgusting. Well, yes.
Yes. But you clean sections of it at
(29:52):
a time. So like, at no point is the
entire restaurant 100% clean because there's always stuff
happening. But it all gets clean.
It all gets. I mean hopefully.
So yeah, I feel like a lot of times, yeah, I avoid tasks
because I know I'm not gonna get100% of my clothes cleaned or
I'm not gonna like, that's so like for me, that's like a huge
(30:15):
stopper for me is like that. Yeah, I.
Mean, I think. It's an all or nothing thinking.
Yeah, it definitely is. But also like, I'm also, this is
completely tangential, but it's a podcast about ADHD, so fuck
you. I don't know like what to do
with a lot of my clothes right now because I've gained so much
weight. And so it's like I don't know if
I should just like give everything away or like, I just
(30:35):
don't know. I don't know what to do with it.
And so, like my closet has remained in this like weird like
stasis pod for like 3 months while like I'm sorting out the
like, doctor's office stuff and trying to figure out like what's
going to happen with my body. And like, it's like annoying
because I'm like I I've been wearing the same like 4 outfits
because they're the only office I have that fit, which is like
fun. But that is like, OK, well I
(30:57):
have these like 4. Should I put them in like a
section? Should I just like move
everything in my closet like over?
So I have, like, I don't know what to do about that.
Cuz like that's not like a thingthat, like, they talk about on
home organization shows. There's never like a what to do
if you, like, have thyroid issues and you gain 80 pounds,
like, what should you do about that?
Like, I don't know. Yeah.
(31:19):
What if? What happens if like?
You decide that you actually aren't in love with The Color
Purple anymore. I mean, you go through a phase
ends. It was a great movie.
The color? Shit.
Yeah, I hate it. Yeah, I think.
The home organization show things.
I think what they really miss isthat is the, well, not what they
miss, but like if they were to organize a person with Adhd's
(31:42):
house, which is like statistically almost certainly
have they do all the time. And then I always just wonder
what happens after, right? Is that they don't.
Exist in the same like phasic way that people with a DHD do,
where it's like, yeah, I I wear these, you know, I wore black
undershirts every day for eight years.
And no, I don't like or like if you organize my little hobby
(32:04):
craft shop room, like if they organize that, so it's like,
hey, you like making, you know, puppets.
So it's like we made your puppetworkshop.
It's like we I like making puppets now, but in like 2.
Weeks I'm going to be into making banjos, you know?
And there's, I feel like that modular element of it, of like
this place, this doesn't need tofacilitate a certain type like
(32:26):
one behavior. It's gonna need to sort of feel
so that a certain type of behavior and a certain type of
organization or certain type of stuff with which ADHD like just
is liable to change all the timefor no fucking reason.
Which, you know, we just gotta make your systems more
forgiving. Yeah.
Resilient. Yeah, I just gotta figure out
how to do that. Yeah.
(32:47):
Yeah, well, I mean, right now we're.
Working on teaching other peopleto do.
That's great. Yeah, well, Katie, do you wanna
go cap this bad boy off and get working on the other thing?
Sure, we'd. Probably do that.
Hey, everybody. Thanks so much for listening.
We certainly appreciate your being here.
We're excited to be here with you now.
(33:11):
See you again in a while. In the meantime, remember to eat
a snack. Remember to take your meds,
Remember to drink some water, Remember to be kind to yourself,
remember to be kind to others. And remember that we love you so
much. Just the most and thanks.
Geeks Therapeutics for sponsoring this episode we're
supposed to be doing. You gave me a look I didn't
(33:33):
give. You a look.
Sorry. Thanks to a geek for.
Sponsoring this episode, Geek Therapeutics helps make people
geeky literate so they can communicate with their kids,
help their patients if they're therapists, and stuff like that.
They also have just a bunch of really interesting books on
psychology of various geeky subjects like the psychology of
Zelda, The Psychology of Pokémon.
(33:55):
By the way, the psychology of Zelda is fantastic.
I was reading through it yesterday to make Tik Toks and
it's so interesting. Nice, really good.
It's my favorite I've been. I've been digging Pokémon too.
Gotta catch them all by the end of me.
Like we gotta catch them all is not just like a phrase.
It's like a way of life, man. Yeah.
Anyways, thanks to Geek Therapeutics.
(34:16):
If you would like to buy any of their books slash stuff, head on
over to geektherapeutics.com andyou can use Code Infinite Quest
for 10% off your order at checkout.
You could do that you. Could totally do that 100.
Well, thanks so much for being here.
Everybody eat a snack and we love you and it feels weird.
We didn't do the whole thing. It feels like Joseph and the
Amazing Technicolor during Co where we ended the show and now
(34:37):
we're doing the whole show again.
That's a really funny joke for like 5 people, I bet.
It is. I'll swing it to you later.
Bye. Red and yellow and green and
brown and scarlet and black and ochre and Peach and Ruby and
olive and Violet and thorn and lilac and gold and chocolate and
mauve and cream and Crimson and silver and Rosen and red, lemon,
(35:02):
and in purple and white, and in pink and orange and blue.
You you fucking move with me right now.
Is that the actual? Song that's Yeah, that's all the
colors of Dresser's code.
You ready be. Don't put stuff on.
Don't hold. The table ohh my name is Katie
Ohh. Ohh.
Look at me. Hello.
I was trying to sing the last name, but then I just did the
NPR. With oh shit, they are similar,
(00:28):
aren't they? Yeah, what is the NPR one?
All things considered with Paisley Apple bottle.
And then at the end. It goes right.
Something like that. Yeah, you sang it.
In one of the last episodes, yousang it like before the
(00:48):
commercial break. I think you were like you were
pretty close. I overlaid it with pretty close.
Very good. Hi everybody.
How's it going, everybody? It's me, Katie Sorens.
Yes, hi. Hello, and it's me.
Hello good and. Welcome back to Infinite Quest
Infinite Quest, which is the name of our podcast.
I'm just going to go ahead and start off real.
I'm just going. To T us right up you're.
(01:11):
Ready. Hi, dear listener.
How are you? Good.
I couldn't hear you. I'm sorry, but I hope you're
doing well. Actually, you know what?
Answer me even though I can't hear you.
Hi dear listener, how are you? How are you freely?
No, you interrupted them. They were probably considering
whether or not they were going to talk, although in their car.
But you know, anyways Steel listener, we've alluded to this
(01:31):
like 1,000,000 billions times and I'm so fucking don't want to
be like the content creator who's like hey, sorry there's no
content other stuff cuz you can only get away with that for so
long and we've been doing that for like a year, but we're also
there's a very. Good reason?
Why we're engaged. We're engaged in another
project. We're doing other project that.
We can't legally. We can't tell you what it is.
(01:53):
We're not allowed to tell. You but if you want to send your
guesses to, ask it if you can't.And it is a thing that requires.
A lot of work. On a staggering amount of work.
I'm really kind of shocked aboutit.
I mean, I knew it was going to be a lot of work.
Yeah, but I didn't think it was going to be this hard.
I'm just. So hard.
(02:13):
It's so hard anyway. Sorry, I interrupted.
No, that's right and. And like I this is what well, I
mean, I I mean like shoehorn 80HD to it, but I gots it.
But like. I keep thinking like a person
who with like solid working executive functions could have
(02:34):
so fucking lutely do the projectthat we're working on, as well
as keeping up with the podcast, keeping up with like Twitch,
like keeping up with all the other stuff because they do all
the time, but like. For us, whenever we try to divvy
out part time between the other thing and the this and the other
stuff like I my brain, I. It's Okay.
(02:58):
My brain came like that feeling of I'm never convinced that I'm
doing the thing that I should bedoing.
You know like the priority shuffling that just gets kicked
to the Max. Because it's all, it's all
important. It's all important.
Like if we. Only only only work on the big
project and nobody's going to give a shit when it comes out
because nobody will remember whothe fuck we are cuz we haven't
done anything in two years or whatever.
(03:19):
But if we split our time then like you know, I feel like we're
half assing 2 things rather thanwhole assing one thing.
And like it would be really niceto just like be like alright
this is this project is the onlything that we're doing but like
that's how this works baby. Like we have a relationship to
like all of y'all and like talking to you and I feel like
we've been like friends that have, just like.
Moved away and have it called written and I feel bad.
(03:41):
But anyways, we're working on a big fucking motherfucking thing,
and I think we're coming to terms with the fact that, like,
we have to just, yeah, accept that we're not going to be able
to crank out stuff. It's like, I always think about
that. Have you ever seen that video
of, like, the professor who puts, like, the golf balls in
the jar? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's like the big things are your job and you feed me man,
and. Then he puts the the gravel in
(04:02):
the sand. Yeah.
And I was like, I always think about that video, cuz I'm like
that is not my experience. Like my experience is whatever
is sitting in front of me in that moment is the biggest ball
in the jar. And it's like I can like plan
and I can like put stuff on my calendar.
But it's like especially with this project and potentially the
other project about the. That one I'm I'm not even
(04:24):
letting myself think about that one.
But like that. It's it's there's not like a you
work. You know you put it on your
calendar to work for like an hour and then you're done.
It's like this weird constantly changing time is nebulous sort
of thing. And I think like that's the
hardest part for me because it'slike I'll sit down and be like
(04:47):
I'm going to finish this part, you know, or this thing and then
four hours later go by and that's not how you say that for.
Hours later, time has gone by, Ithink.
That's how I want to do. It.
But you know what I mean. And then it's like I've done
either way more than I thought Iwas going to do or I've I've
done one very small I've tried so hard not to use action verbs,
(05:13):
but like, you know what I mean. And so, like, that's the part
that I get frustrated like the other.
Day I was working on a part and I was like, oh, this is going to
take me 20 minutes. It's been 3 days.
Well, it's it's also, God damn it, this is so ridiculous that
we're like, we can't say it's soobvious what it is that we're
talking about because because wecould talk about it.
We talked about how we wanted todo it.
For a while we did, and that wastotally fine.
(05:34):
But now that we're actually doing it, we're not all sorry
and. Dear listener, we will also let
you know if you don't know what's going on, listen back few
episodes. Well, like 20.
Yeah. And also know that we will be
making the formal announcement soon.
We just have to wait for like the permission.
Yeah, they go ahead. Well, yeah.
What's also hard about this particular type of project is
(05:57):
like, I'll start working on a certain part of it.
This is so fucking so dumb a certain part of it.
And I'll be like this part of itis like just a couple things
like and then I'll think about it more and go well actually
this is kind of related to the other.
Well, actually. Larger content.
And then all of a sudden it becomes like this is a whole
thing in itself. And three days later you've got
(06:19):
nothing done. Well, another.
Thing is that this Jesus Christ,this particular type of project
is one of the projects where like.
TikTok is fast. Like it's it's if you spend too
long perfecting A TikTok trend video, like most of the time I
have ever tried to put trend video, you're never going to
post, you're going to miss the boat and you know it's better to
(06:40):
have it done than have to be perfect.
Or is this the type of project where it's like with the amount
of time that gets spent on it? Like you know, it's not like a,
you know, month, two-month, couple month thing.
It's like a several year long thing.
I don't want to pass up on actually this other interesting
thing that I didn't realize is connected to this other.
(07:00):
Like I want to have time to be able to explore all those
things. I really don't want to feel like
I'm half assing or leaving stuffout which is.
If I open them blinds, it's so dark in here and I'm so sad,
yeah. Absolutely, sweetie.
Of Cush. Of Cush.
Right. Blindfoly.
Yeah, Nice. Wow.
(07:21):
The old timey radio show. But yeah, that priority
shuffling where like I don't actually know if I've said like
priority shuffling. Ooh.
Like a Queen Bailey. Bailey's surveying her her
Kingdom. Nice.
But. I don't know if I've actually
said priority shuffling like on the podcast I probably have.
But priority shuffling is what Icall when you're have a thing
(07:42):
that you need to do when you start doing it, But as soon as
you start doing it, you're like,actually this other thing is
more important. Actually, this other thing is
more important. Actually this other thing is
more important. And no one thing stays at the
top of the priority list for long enough to make any
meaningful progress on it. So my priority shuffling is just
nuts now because there's a bunchof things, all of which are
actually important. And, like, all of which could be
(08:03):
like, I'm going to do this for an hour and a half, and then
this for an hour and a half. But even during those hour and a
half, even though I know that I've scheduled later to work on
that thing. The whole time I'm not working
on the thing. I'm just like, Oh my God, I
should be working on the thing. I should be working on the
thing. Unless I am working on the
thing. And then it's like, I should be
doing all this other stuff. I should be doing all this other
stuff. It's tough and.
(08:24):
I don't know. I think, God, this is so hard.
The thing about The thing is also a thing that we have to
start working on. Like we haven't started that
part of it at all and we have tolike that's part of it.
It's not. We gotta do the same for the
thing. This is really good podcast.
But you know what I mean? Like, like and I know what you
(08:46):
mean about because, well, the. Second thing doesn't exist
unless the first thing exists and is really good.
Yeah, you know. So I think the first step
towards the second thing is making sure the first thing is
fucking yeah. Really good.
But it's just fuck me, dude. Yeah, I know it's.
Weird. And so, yeah.
So anyway, all of that to say weare going to cut back on the
number of episodes that we drop.Sorry, I put up a point of order
(09:10):
hand here that is correct we arebut I also in point of that we
have cut back on the so I think we're more.
Rather than doing that thing where every week, Well, OK, so
like when I when I talk to Eric about wanting to talk about this
on the podcast, I like, I was like, hey, I want to put like a
concrete number on it. And the reason why was because
(09:32):
for me. It's like every week it's
Tuesday and Thursday and we're working on this other project
and we go we should make a podcast today or we have to make
a podcast today with that like oh shit, like we're letting you
all down and we're we're failingin our goal to accomplish
recording and editing and posting a podcast which honestly
(09:54):
like it takes a bit of time likeit.
It's we've streamlined the process but they're still like.
A couple of hours on the front end and back end, so it winds up
being a three to four hour process whenever we make a
podcast. Yeah.
It's like about half a day. And so every Thursday I'm
sitting at my desk and I'm like,oh fuck, we didn't make a
podcast for. Fucking failures for pieces of
(10:15):
shit. I hate myself.
Which is not good practice. And So what I really wanted to
do was I wanted to one be remodel realisticism.
But then also just because in that way, I think it's not it.
It sets us up for success because it, you know, posting a
(10:35):
podcast a month, maybe a little bit more like yes, Dear
Listener, we know that it's not going to be the same as getting
two podcasts every single week. But the thing that we're working
on is so important to us and it's so meaningful.
And it also frankly is the kind of thing that could change our
lives forever. Even more so than they.
(10:56):
Already have, even more so than than we already have.
And like at the start of this, when Eric and I like, met, we
joked about this kind of thing. We like, made jokes.
We're like, ha ha ha ha ha, as though all of this was pretend
and now it's not. And that is big and it's it's
scary and there's a lot of responsibility and there's a lot
(11:20):
of that sort of wanting to do right by everybody.
And so the the truth is, is thatright now we don't realistically
have two podcasts a week in US. And so rather than keep people
wondering and being that friend who moved away and then never
writes, we figured we would justkind of be upfront and say, hey,
(11:44):
this is what's going on that we can talk about to the best of
our ability when we can talk about it.
You're going to be tired of hearing us talk.
But for now, like we just wantedto be transparent about that,
because I think it's really easyto ascribe like that sense of
like failure or ascribe a sense of shame to it.
But it's like, no, like we're doing something really important
(12:06):
to us and so we want you to be along for the ride with that it
also. It also felt like when we were
like pushing to like, get keep getting podcasts out as we were
working on the thing, it felt like the podcast just ended up.
Because, like, I will not be. Like, my policy with the bug is
I will not be in genuine on the podcast, you know, like if I'm
(12:27):
feeling like absolute garbage, like that will be, you know,
because I think that's part of the point of the podcast from
the beginning is being honest about that kind of thing.
And so I feel like when we were pushing, all I was talking about
her feeling during podcast reporting was like, hey, I'm
exhausted and tired and I whatever.
Like all I had to say was about how fucking my brain was fried,
(12:48):
you know? And so hold on.
I have to meet the microphone soI can blow my nose.
Okay, I feel better. Hey.
That saved me. Saved me a second post.
All right, well, thank you. I shouldn't.
Subject people to the monstrous way in which I blow my nose.
But. Also, I mean, I think just gotta
(13:09):
be gentle with ourselves, lower our expectations in other areas,
which I think is sort of the function of this whole spiel
we've been giving you deer Raiders.
Is not necessarily saying that we know we already have cut back
on podcast, but it's more like we're accepting that that's just
gonna be the way it is for a minute and setting those
intentions not just for us, but also for all of you so you're
not worried or angry or bored, Yeah.
(13:32):
And I think the first big part of the project is due in
December. At the end of the year.
And so then the real truth is that from there, it's a huge
question mark. We don't know what 2024 is going
to look like in a lot of ways, which is kind of weird.
(13:55):
It's like weird to think about because it's like, I don't know
what the process is. I don't know how often we're
going to be, like waiting for. Emails.
I don't know how often it's going to be like us doing stuff.
Like, you know what I mean? I just have no picture of what
it's going to look like. And so I think part of this
podcast, too, is going to becomea little bit of that process and
(14:18):
like a journal and diary of thatprocess.
What I'd love to do, and I thinkthis is probably going to be the
case if God, I can't even say. Well, every time I arrive at a
I. Need to I'm sending that e-mail
that I've been forgetting to send right now.
Well, we're I'm. Hoping that when the people that
we are working with tell us it'sOK, I'm hoping we can just talk
(14:41):
about because the stuff that we're Jesus Christ, Oh my God,
it's so ridiculous. I can't like every time I have a
verb, nouns just cuz as we're working on this thing.
Like, it's generative and it provokes interesting
conversations between both me and Katie.
Then like, it's stuff that I would love to talk about on the
podcast. Like it's prime for.
Like, all right, let's talk about what we worked on today
(15:02):
and and the questions we have about it and whatever.
So I'm hoping once we can talk about the project, that's sort
of what it'll be. Which it would be fucking
incredible. I would have blown that so much.
I don't know if that's what it can be, but I think it's, I
think it's probably fine. But also Katie, another name for
carpet. Floor plan.
(15:24):
Floor plant, yeah. Nice.
That's good floor, grass floor. Grass, that was.
What I was thinking was inside grass.
That's good. I don't have one right now.
Another name for a microphone. Ringy Boy.
I rely on boy too much. I do.
I do. Make loud a talk here.
(15:48):
Talky here. Make your voice loud.
Time. Hey, can people not hear you up
talking to me? And then they will.
Guy. That's the stupidest fucking
thing. Fine.
Katie Another name for a speaker?
Sound hole. Okay, you win.
(16:10):
That was good. That was funny.
Thanks. Sorry I was just trying.
I was just throwing injecting some levy.
That's a fun game that you can play at home, dear listener.
Yeah, Yup. Well, actually, you know what?
We don't hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.
(16:32):
I'm just realizing we can talk about some of the stuff that
we've been working on. We just can't say, like, certain
stuff about it, but we can stillsay like, you know what I've
been thinking about lately? Yeah, you.
Yeah. Like we can do that.
You know what I mean? What have?
You been thinking about lately? What I've been thinking about
lately, What have? You been thinking about I've?
(16:53):
Been thinking about lately what I've been going default
behavior. So like you got yourself a
system. Well actually, well, I've been
thinking about a lot of things lately.
I'll try, I'll see if they're probably all going to mix into
one big thing. But why?
I was thinking about the point to let me let me table that
first full thing is that you don't need to have a system in
order to do something. Systems are great.
(17:13):
Systems help. Systems awful will the longevity
of you doing something, but it'snot absolutely necessary.
Because. Oh God, it's going to be hard
without, you know, talking aboutthe thing just because with the
amount that I, you know, we talkand think about systems, you
know, strategies for getting things done, essentially
(17:35):
strategies, methods and techniques for getting things
done. Essentially.
I never want to seem like we're saying they're.
Necessary their requirements. Like you shouldn't wait to
develop a system for doing your laundry to do your laundry like
you got to ham fist it and then you'll really appreciate your
system once you have one becauseyou won't be hand fisting
anymore but that. But then default behavior is
(17:56):
what I call when a system breaksdown.
So like you know you do your laundry every you know Monday or
something like that except one Monday you don't and then it
piles up and then everything gets fucked and the system
implodes. Like what is your default
behavior then? For me it's.
Not do the laundry. Yeah, not.
Do the laundry until I have an emergency on my hands and then
(18:16):
just dedicating a whole day to trying to get it through.
And so with default behavior. I keep thinking our default
behavior is usually at least gets the job done.
And I think systems can be builtor more easily built through
manipulating our default behavior than designing entirely
new behavior. So I've been trying to recognize
(18:36):
that in my own life lately. Where like.
When I'm dissatisfied with, you know some way that I am, you
know, like, oh, like my pliers, for example.
When I'm in the shop and I'm doing stuff, every time I put my
pliers down, it's like, fuck, I I've been then spend at least
another 10 seconds looking for them the next time I need them.
(18:57):
But I did notice, so I, you know, I'm just getting mad at
myself. I was like, okay default
behavior here. Let's let's Jeff Goldblum a
little bit. Let's study my own behavior
here. What?
Is there a place that I keep finding them when I do find
them? Turns out, yes.
Katie on my left, which is weirdbecause I'm right-handed.
So you'd think I'd be using the pliers and I would put them down
on my right, but they're usuallyon the left side of my desk
(19:19):
because I'll be using them. And then I'll put them into my
left hand in order to hold the work piece in my right, but
still hold the pliers and then realize that I don't need the
pliers anymore and set them downon my left.
So that is now where my little plier storage guys are.
Look at you, you know. So rather than be like, oh, I'm.
Such a fucking. Dumb shit, I should have.
Fuck it. Well, I mean I did plenty of
(19:40):
that, but try to work around your your already behavior
rather than trying to design like the pie in the sky.
If I were a person who was amazing, you know, like what is
the ideal way of doing it. That's why I.
Just put a Finder tag on the measuring tape, cuz I realized I
was never gonna oh. Did you?
I did nice. I.
Realized it was. Now we're gonna consistently put
it. Down in the same spot ever.
(20:02):
Even if I like, made it cuz I tried different things.
I like made like a little area. I was like, I'm always gonna put
it here. That didn't work.
And then I was like, OK, I want to put it over here.
That didn't work. And finally I was just like, you
wanna fuck here? I was just gonna put it where I
want to put it and then I'll just find it every time and
that's fine. Like that works.
It's maybe not the most like time, you know, cuz they gotta
walk over the little button, butlike whatever.
(20:23):
Yeah. You know, no, that's solid, I
mean. It's a.
It's a Serenity Prayer type thing.
Yeah, Serenity prayer type thing.
What does that even? What does that even mean?
Here? Why are you bringing up that?
What's that? No, it's the the serenity prayer
is, you know, God grant me the strength to accept the things or
the God. What is it?
Yeah, the serenity. It's God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change
(20:45):
the things that I can and the wisdom to tell the difference.
I'm not a religious man, but I just, I love those, those those
concepts. Because I think, yeah, life is
about figuring out what things you can change and what things
you can't. Because trying to change
something you can't is a waste of time.
And thinking you can't change something that you can is also a
waste of time and effort. And so I think when we're like
(21:07):
analyzing our own behavior and trying to figure out solutions
for our daily life, I think it'simportant to keep that in mind
because we can change, you know,little parts about our behavior.
Like, I don't care how bad your executive dysfunction is, you
can still, like, you know, take the trash out once a week so it
doesn't, you know. Eventually you will take the
(21:28):
trash out. We can alter our behavior, you
know, in slight ways, our default behavior in slight ways.
But ultimately, like our nature,the fact that we are people who
struggle with remembering to do basic shit and whatnot, that's
almost certainly not going to change, the sign says.
That's not going to change. You are always going to struggle
with that kind of stuff. You can get better at dealing
(21:49):
with the fact that you're naturally doing that stuff until
so so far to the point where like.
Some people think they sort of grow out of their ADHD because
they develop such good solutions, which is great.
But accepting that, like, certain core things about us are
always going to be things that we're needing to deal with.
And not being mad at ourselves or not being that other thing,
that other version of ourselves that can put the measuring tape
(22:10):
in exactly the same spot at the same time and going okay, I'm
not going to be that person. So given that, what is a
solution? Pop A tag on it.
I think that's a fucking great solution.
Groups, do you? Want to know something that
really grinds my gears? Oh.
Yeah, shout to Family Guy 2003. What you got is the idea that
that is a bad thing because like, I feel.
Sorry, that was a bad thing. That what you just talked about,
(22:32):
that idea of like, by nature, like I'm a disorganized person,
you know, whatever, you know. And so it's like, I think a lot
of people would hear that and they go, oh, well, that's so
like fatalistic. That's just no matter what you
do, you cannot change. And I think like, that is
something that I spent so much time worried about.
(22:55):
And like, what is the word that I want dealing with of that idea
of like, I am an inherently messy person, right?
And if you look it, it's sort oflike breaking that idea down,
like, OK, what is a messy person?
Like you know why am I messy? And so it's like okay.
I have like the organization component, I have the
(23:16):
impulsivity component, I have the executive function
component. Like there's different reasons
that a person becomes or like ismessy right.
And so like I think about the the coffee table.
So dear listeners I have like this like coffee table tray
where it consistently all the time gets covered in bullshit.
(23:38):
I don't know how it happens. I mean, I do is that we put
stuff on it. And so I decided that I was like
a fun experiment. I was going to like do my best
to keep that coffee tray like clear because I just like it
better. Like the aesthetic of it being
clear is like pleasant to me. But what I realized is that, and
I and I have been doing that, like I have genuinely been
(24:03):
working to do that. But that is a manual thing.
That is, every single day I walkout of my bedroom and I go right
and I like, take off the dishes or like I put away the stuff or
like Eric comes over and clears off his microscope and bowl of
pond scum. Real thing.
That's a real thing. I'd be like, Eric, please clean
(24:23):
up your blood and pond scum thatyou left on the living room
tray. I have.
A microscope. But, like, but it was that idea,
right? And so, like, I spent so much
time being like, Oh well, I shouldn't have to do that.
I shouldn't have to remind myself.
I shouldn't have to like, like, it should just come naturally.
And the truth is, like, it's never gonna, It's never gonna.
And like, I'm having a hard timearticulating exactly what I'm
(24:48):
trying to say. But, like, I remember being a
kid and, like, my parents criticizing me for being messy.
And they would always give me that.
Like, well, it's just so easy. Or why don't you just try
harder? And it's like, well, because I
don't know where to put the measuring tape.
And the measuring tape always gets put in a different like,
(25:09):
because that's how my brain works.
And so, like, for me, organization, cleanliness, or
like, at least not having like awhole foxtonic clutter around my
house. All of that comes from, like,
the manual decision to every single day be like, OKI got to
clear off the coffee table tray again.
And like, that sucks because I wish it was a little bit more
(25:29):
like natural, but it's not. And so that's just, that's what
I get, you know? Yeah.
The things I cannot change, yeah.
I think it's. Does that make sense?
Yeah. I think it's like a being a
realist but also acknowledging your agency, cuz I think like I
have a hard one. No, I think this is.
(25:50):
Also, one of those things that people can only ever answer
about themselves, but I think wecan always change what we do,
but we can't change who we are, what is who we are versus just
something that we do. I think that's the game
ultimately, that's that's the whole fucking thing.
Is figuring out is this something that I'm doing that I
can change or is this something that I am that I can't.
(26:11):
Well I think like systems play into a lot of that.
Like I've I as I've been thinking about systems I've been
sort of thinking genuinely thinking about like how.
The existence of of like a really good system often times
(26:35):
sort of like smooth that discrepancy and like bridges
that gap. So like for me it was like like
the junk drawers really good example.
Like I finally caved and I got little individual compartmenty
things and the junk drawer I'll.Say frankly, you know, but like,
I had to like take the time to go, OK, I need to actually like
(26:58):
make that system happen and instead of just having the jump
drawer and also I needed 2 jump drawers and that's fine, I'm
okay with that, you know what I mean?
But yeah. I don't know, just that idea of
like, I don't know where I was going with that, but systems I'm
really finding like systems are so powerful.
(27:19):
Oh, I know a thing. I know a thing that I was
trying. I was thinking about how to
think about Casey Davis said something fascinating on a
podcast the other day where she was talking about like, laundry.
And how laundry exists in like, a literal cycle of, like, you
have dirty laundry that is like being washed in the washer.
(27:41):
You have dry laundry, clean laundry in the dryer, then you
have clean laundry that's out ofthe dryer.
Then you have, like, laundry that is, like folded and hung
up. Then you have laundry that is
not. Then you have laundry that's
like, Nah, you wore it once, butyou could probably wear it
again. Then you have, like, dirty
laundry into that that. So it becomes like this cycle.
And so, like, there's probably realistically never going to be
(28:06):
a moment where, like, all of those cycles line up inside of
your household. And, like, so there's probably
always going to be like, a little bit of dirty laundry.
There's always probably going tobe like, a chair that has like,
a shirt on it or something. And that.
Like, like, I, because I've beenwatching a lot of home
organization shows, right? And the thing that always
(28:28):
fucking bothers me so goddamn much about all those fucking
shows, I don't know why I'm so mad about this, but I am, is
like, they do the whole closet right?
And they're like, OK, here's your system.
But, like, they have just enoughhangers for the stuff that's in
the closet, and they have just enough boxes for the stuff.
And I always go, what about the the stuff?
What about the lot, the stuff inthe dryer?
What about the stuff on the chair?
(28:49):
What about the stuff that you forgot that's like in the trunk
of your car, which is probably not a problem that a lot of
people have, but I do. And so like that idea of like
chores like that or like tasks like that existing on a cycle
was like because I feel like I can't clean up my closet unless
I have every piece of laundry that I own clean and ready to
(29:10):
hang up on the bed. But if you adjust that mentality
to think about it as being on a cycle, then what you're actually
dealing with is the clothes thatare in that portion of the cycle
right now as you're dealing withit.
And that's all you have to worryabout.
And then the next time that cycle comes around, you know,
OK, so the laundry needs to get folded.
(29:30):
That's when you do the, the goodwill sort.
That's when you do whatever. Yeah, I think that's smart.
Yeah, it's. I'm trying to think of a better
analogy, but it's sort of like a24 hour kitchen.
Yeah, like how do you clean a 24hour kitchen?
It's never closed all the way. Literally never thought well.
You close sections of it. It's that way Waffle House is
always disgusting. Well, yes.
Yes. But you clean sections of it at
(29:52):
a time. So like, at no point is the
entire restaurant 100% clean because there's always stuff
happening. But it all gets clean.
It all gets. I mean hopefully.
So yeah, I feel like a lot of times, yeah, I avoid tasks
because I know I'm not gonna get100% of my clothes cleaned or
I'm not gonna like, that's so like for me, that's like a huge
(30:15):
stopper for me is like that. Yeah, I.
Mean, I think. It's an all or nothing thinking.
Yeah, it definitely is. But also like, I'm also, this is
completely tangential, but it's a podcast about ADHD, so fuck
you. I don't know like what to do
with a lot of my clothes right now because I've gained so much
weight. And so it's like I don't know if
I should just like give everything away or like, I just
(30:35):
don't know. I don't know what to do with it.
And so, like my closet has remained in this like weird like
stasis pod for like 3 months while like I'm sorting out the
like, doctor's office stuff and trying to figure out like what's
going to happen with my body. And like, it's like annoying
because I'm like I I've been wearing the same like 4 outfits
because they're the only office I have that fit, which is like
fun. But that is like, OK, well I
(30:57):
have these like 4. Should I put them in like a
section? Should I just like move
everything in my closet like over?
So I have, like, I don't know what to do about that.
Cuz like that's not like a thingthat, like, they talk about on
home organization shows. There's never like a what to do
if you, like, have thyroid issues and you gain 80 pounds,
like, what should you do about that?
Like, I don't know. Yeah.
(31:19):
What if? What happens if like?
You decide that you actually aren't in love with The Color
Purple anymore. I mean, you go through a phase
ends. It was a great movie.
The color? Shit.
Yeah, I hate it. Yeah, I think.
The home organization show things.
I think what they really miss isthat is the, well, not what they
miss, but like if they were to organize a person with Adhd's
(31:42):
house, which is like statistically almost certainly
have they do all the time. And then I always just wonder
what happens after, right? Is that they don't.
Exist in the same like phasic way that people with a DHD do,
where it's like, yeah, I I wear these, you know, I wore black
undershirts every day for eight years.
And no, I don't like or like if you organize my little hobby
(32:04):
craft shop room, like if they organize that, so it's like,
hey, you like making, you know, puppets.
So it's like we made your puppetworkshop.
It's like we I like making puppets now, but in like 2.
Weeks I'm going to be into making banjos, you know?
And there's, I feel like that modular element of it, of like
this place, this doesn't need tofacilitate a certain type like
(32:26):
one behavior. It's gonna need to sort of feel
so that a certain type of behavior and a certain type of
organization or certain type of stuff with which ADHD like just
is liable to change all the timefor no fucking reason.
Which, you know, we just gotta make your systems more
forgiving. Yeah.
Resilient. Yeah, I just gotta figure out
how to do that. Yeah.
(32:47):
Yeah, well, I mean, right now we're.
Working on teaching other peopleto do.
That's great. Yeah, well, Katie, do you wanna
go cap this bad boy off and get working on the other thing?
Sure, we'd. Probably do that.
Hey, everybody. Thanks so much for listening.
We certainly appreciate your being here.
We're excited to be here with you now.
(33:11):
See you again in a while. In the meantime, remember to eat
a snack. Remember to take your meds,
Remember to drink some water, Remember to be kind to yourself,
remember to be kind to others. And remember that we love you so
much. Just the most and thanks.
Geeks Therapeutics for sponsoring this episode we're
supposed to be doing. You gave me a look I didn't
(33:33):
give. You a look.
Sorry. Thanks to a geek for.
Sponsoring this episode, Geek Therapeutics helps make people
geeky literate so they can communicate with their kids,
help their patients if they're therapists, and stuff like that.
They also have just a bunch of really interesting books on
psychology of various geeky subjects like the psychology of
Zelda, The Psychology of Pokémon.
(33:55):
By the way, the psychology of Zelda is fantastic.
I was reading through it yesterday to make Tik Toks and
it's so interesting. Nice, really good.
It's my favorite I've been. I've been digging Pokémon too.
Gotta catch them all by the end of me.
Like we gotta catch them all is not just like a phrase.
It's like a way of life, man. Yeah.
Anyways, thanks to Geek Therapeutics.
(34:16):
If you would like to buy any of their books slash stuff, head on
over to geektherapeutics.com andyou can use Code Infinite Quest
for 10% off your order at checkout.
You could do that you. Could totally do that 100.
Well, thanks so much for being here.
Everybody eat a snack and we love you and it feels weird.
We didn't do the whole thing. It feels like Joseph and the
Amazing Technicolor during Co where we ended the show and now
(34:37):
we're doing the whole show again.
That's a really funny joke for like 5 people, I bet.
It is. I'll swing it to you later.
Bye. Red and yellow and green and
brown and scarlet and black and ochre and Peach and Ruby and
olive and Violet and thorn and lilac and gold and chocolate and
mauve and cream and Crimson and silver and Rosen and red, lemon,
(35:02):
and in purple and white, and in pink and orange and blue.
You you fucking move with me right now.
Is that the actual? Song that's Yeah, that's all the
colors of Dresser's code.
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