When Systems Fail and Christmas Turkeys

Cate and Erik talk about what to do do when your systems fail, and how to troubleshoot systems to make them stick. Cate gives updates on her upcoming tour, including her fast-approaching "Turkey from A Christmas Carol" live show. Erik slaps a water bottle and lakes the sound it makes.

Key topics: Dealing with negative inner voices, pathological demand avoidance, how to make systems for ADHD, what to do when systems fail. Perfect for adults with ADHD who love genuine, unfiltered conversations about neurodivergent childhood experiences and how our scattered minds connect memories. Subscribe for more ADHD-friendly storytelling!

Episode Transcript

(00:07):
But the water bottle is too big.That's too big.
It's a gallon, dude. Why is that?
That's ridiculous. It's awesome because it's I at
my like height and weight and all that stuff, I should be
drinking at least a gallon of water a day.
So if I fill it in the morning, then it's just like crushed up.
If I fill it. If I have to fill it before I go
to bed, good job. You know, it's pretty good and

(00:30):
it's insulated and it's interesting.
Nobody but me. It resonates and sounds very
good. I like that you've already
turned it into an instrument. Everything is an instrument.
Everything already is an idiophone.
Or in the thought that 5 I think.
That there what is what is not an instrument.

(00:53):
So I was going to say like a puddle of water on the floor,
but I suppose I could still be an instrument.
No, there's a there's water drums is a is a traditional
instrument in certain places in Africa, which is also analogous
to slapping your belly, which I do constantly if you you.
Do do that a lot. I do, yeah.
I was in the store the other dayand I was slapping my belly and
this old woman was standing nextto me looking through mustards

(01:15):
or whatever, and she just said it's so nice to have music,
isn't it? That's like, dude, you're
awesome. Like, yes it is.
I like that so much. Thank you.
Lady, you can't decide if that'sa devastating insult or a
compliment. No, I think it's a compliment.
I was, I was very stoked about it.
You know that's. Good, I've got that ham boating

(01:36):
energy. Yeah, right.
But no, I would say nothing is not an instrument because an
idiophone is an instrument. Who it it itself entirely
vibrates like a gong is an idiophone.
A bell is an idiophone, and since literally every single
individual thing in the universehas a resonant frequency, it's
hard to say. Like I think everything is an

(01:56):
instrument. Everything can vibrate at some
frequency and therefore is an instrument.
Is how we got the Blue Man Group.
Hi everybody, it's me, Katie. Sorry.
Hi. Hello.
It's me. Hey, Goon.
Welcome back to Big Was. An inquest baby.
It's about a minute, but we're back.
We miss you. How are you doing?

(02:18):
You personally? Were you talking to a listener
or talking to me? Yes.
Take a moment, dear listener, inyour car while you're cooking
breakfast. How you doing?
Answer out what? Are you doing you hanging in
there good? Yeah.
Too long of an answer to your listener.
No, I'm kidding. No, but I, Eric, personally, I'm
doing all right. I'm doing OK.

(02:40):
I'm out here in Los Angeles in a, in a, in a field that is very
unpredictable. Sometimes there's a lot of stuff
to do in the fabrication world. Sometimes there's not a lot of
stuff to do. And that part sucks a whole lot
because I thrive on schedule, externally mandated schedule,

(03:03):
and also not just having that schedule, but knowing that that
schedule persists. And so not knowing if I'm going
to have the same schedule next week than I am this week and
vice versa. Can really do a number on the
old brain sauce. But I'm, I'm, I'm chugging
through I'm, I'm trying to stickto my routines, keep myself
nourished and all that stuff. That's good.

(03:24):
How are you doing? Oh, man, I, I don't know, I feel
like I'm going through the same thing but in a different way
because like your, I mean, your schedule is external in so much
as like work being available or not.
But it's like the same way I waslike, I don't, my schedule
changes constantly and oh, this is a silly thing.

(03:44):
Do you want to hear a really silly thing that I did?
100% of the time. OK, so dear listener, you may
know on this very podcast, actually, we made history when
we recorded that fucking episodeabout the Turkey in A Christmas
Carol. But for since that episode came
out for five years, for five years I have been like, I'm

(04:07):
going to make the YouTube video.I'm going to make like the
companion documentary video. But The thing is, is that I
envisioned that video as like Ken Burns documentary, which by
the way, did you know that Ken Burns is making a new
documentary? Yeah, he's.
He's doing the he's doing the American Revolution.

(04:28):
Oh, I bet that's going to be it's.
Fucking amazing. It's just fucking fights.
Just constant do do do do do. Do do do do do.
Just in the background the wholetime.
I'm so stoked for it. But yeah, but so anyway, so I, I
had this like very perfectionistic vision of what I
wanted this this video to be. And I kept putting it off and
kept putting it off. And this year I was like, I know
what I'm going to do. I'm going to force my hand.

(04:48):
I'm going to drop a trailer for the Turkey video, and then when
I dropped the trailer, that means that I'm obligating myself
to do it because I announced that it's coming out and then I
still didn't do it. So, Eric, would you like to know
what I did? What did you do?
I rented a theater and I invited100 people to come watch me
record it live the night before it's due.

(05:14):
That's awesome. Is it working?
Katiosaurus's first secret show will be happening next week.
It's sold out already, which is nice.
People, people are coming, whichis nice.
And yeah, and so we're going to,I'm going to do the, it's going
to, it's going to like I may be the world's first stand up

(05:35):
special on the Turkey at A Christmas Carol.
So it's nice to know that I'm Isthat weird?
To think it is, yeah. Like I'm pretty sure it is.
I'm pretty sure I'm the first one.
Do do you do that thing where when it's New Year's, as soon as
it the new year turns around, you like do something and you're
like, I'm the first person in 2026 to touch my nose while

(05:56):
farting into a cup or whatever it is.
You know, I mean, I did that when I was a kid and still now I
feel like that's like the coolest version of that.
You know, like I did the very first stand up special that is
on the Turkey and the Christmas Oh, it's on A Christmas Carol.
No, no, it's on the oh, it's about turkeys in the Christmas
Carol. No, it's about just the 11

(06:16):
specific. One singular Turkey, Yeah.
So I mean, although I don't do that, but I do have mine is
sometimes when I like go to the grocery store, I'll be like
walking around and I'm like, I wonder how many of these people
have played Hamlet. That's like, what I think about
is like, is like not being like the first person.
But I'm like, I wonder how many people here have played Hamlet.

(06:37):
How many times do you think you have been in a grocery store
along with another person who has played Hamlet, like in your
whole life? I mean, at the same time, not
just sharing a grocery store like you're there at the same
time. I don't know, like it's hard.
It's hard to say, right? I think it also depends on where
you are because like if you're in like a grocery store in like

(06:57):
New York City, you're, you know,there's going to be more actors.
If you're in like LA, there's going to be more actors.
But like if you're in like, you know, here in Atlanta, it's
like, you know what I mean? It's.
Yeah, and also what constitutes playing Hamlet?
I mean, I imagine you mean like in a production.
Oh, I don't know if I thought about it that seriously.
I don't know if I have parameters.

(07:18):
Because I can play Hamlet right now, like I, I mean, not
literally right now. I can because to be or to order
Uber Eats for the fourth time this week, that is the question.
That was, that was. That's what I had on the top of
my head for Hamlet. Hilarious.

(07:38):
Yeah, Really. Cool, that's that.
I'm glad. How's how's the the the
Christmas Carol Turkey Extravaganza stand up special
going? It's.
Well, it's been really interesting because I so if you
haven't heard, dear listener, I'm going on tour and there's
going to be a national comedy tour.
That happens, but it's not, I mean, I keep saying it's a

(08:00):
comedy tour because illegally that's what what like, I don't
know how what else to talk. Like, I don't know what else to
call it like it's comedy, but it's not comedy, but it's not
not copy, you know. And so I'm really excited
because I want to sort of test the format.
And so this this show is like it's going to happen.

(08:20):
It will be what it is. It's going to be like one night.
I invite, I invited like a bunchof friends and family.
Like there's not going to be anybody in the back going like,
Boo, you suck, you know, And so I'm excited to see how it plays,
but I, but I don't know. I really don't know if I'm doing
it because I well, I'm doing it because I need to make the
fucking video. But the second part of it is,

(08:43):
and will this format work? Because I have a really good
feeling about this format and the sort of like way that I like
to tell stories. And so if it works, then that
means that I'm, I'm heading in areally good direction for the
tour and that is exciting, if that makes sense.
What would you say that you're the way that you're doing it,
the format that you're doing it,is that something you like

(09:06):
realized in the night or is thatalways been like the plan is to
do it in this format? It's I don't like the thing I
like. I don't like, I don't know how
to write jokes. Do you know what I mean?
Like, because, because, like, how do I say this in a way that
makes any sense at all? So I've been, I've been watching
a lot of Josh Johnson lately. And because when I was a kid,

(09:27):
what Josh Johnson is doing is what I thought comedy was like.
I thought a stand up comic wouldlike go to a place and then they
would just like talk for an hourand then be done.
I didn't understand that most ofthe time stand up comics are
like going on the road for four to six months and they're like
honing these jokes and they're like writing them over and over

(09:48):
again and they're trying like different ways of saying them or
whatever. And then what you see at the end
of that period is the like hour long comedy special.
And then they go off and like 2 years later they drop another
comedy special. Josh Johnson is just doing a
comedy special every week. Fairly off the cuff now I've
watched enough Josh Johnson and I have evaluated enough Josh

(10:10):
Johnson that they're sort of like a, of like a flow to it.
There's like a like a, a slot and AB slot.
There's AC slot like the and youcan sort of pattern it out that
way. But what that made me realize
was that maybe I don't have to write jokes, right?
Like I like, I'm writing jokes in so much as that I've like I,

(10:31):
I have an outline. I know what I want to talk
about. I know what I want the show to
be and I know what the show I want.
I know what the show like to feel like, but I'm not
meticulously writing out a word for word script.
I'm just kind of like going to do it on the night and see what
happens. And that's either a really bad
idea or a good idea. And I I genuinely don't know
what it's going to be. Yeah, I, I don't mean to, to use

(10:53):
the cliche, but there is only one way to find out, you know,
And I think I'm really, honestly, really, really excited
to watch what comes from that. Not just because I've heard you
do your Christmas Carol Turkey thing.
It happened to your first folks,but also like, that's a really
interesting way to approach it. And I'm really curious to see

(11:13):
someone try that where they're like I am because I think you're
you're you're feeling yourself. I'm correct me if I'm wrong, but
the rocket fuel here is your passion, but not just for the
Turkey and the Christmas Carol, for that type of thing, for
obsession over something silly and then learning an insane
amount about it and then communicating that to other

(11:33):
people. And I'm really excited to see
what happens when you point thatto a stage and people come to
see it. I think it's going to be sweet.
I don't like, and that's the thing.
It's like, I don't know, like I,my one worry is that it's like
the Christmas Carol 1 is going to be, I mean, it's going to be
different because it's like it'sjust about the Turkey.
But the show, the show that I'm envisioning is like, I want to

(11:54):
talk about magic. Like actually it's OK.
I'm with, have I told you what Iwant the show to be yet?
Is this is this fresh? Please if if you haven't said,
can I tell you what the what I want the show to be like?
I've gotten glimpses, but I've never heard it laid.
Out because here's The thing is I've laid, I've laid it out for
like several people and the reactions have been very mixed

(12:14):
in terms of like, just like sheer confusion.
Do you know what I mean? But I want to talk about magic.
And specifically I want to talk about why magicians wear top
hats and pull rabbits out of hats, which is fascinating.
And then I want to talk about sea shanties.
And then I want to talk about feminism, like the suffragette

(12:37):
movement and how sea shanties and magic are actually like
really closely entwined into thesuffragette movement.
And I kind of want to close withthe idea that, like, it doesn't
matter if you give a shit about magic.
It doesn't matter if you give a shit about sea shanties.
But like I like my one of my core values, the thing that I

(13:00):
believe more than anything else in the world is that if you are
curious and you are interested, like that is a skill that is a
talent. And that is something that can
like actively change the world. And so like, that's kind of the
show. But I keep being like, well,
it's gonna be about like magic and sea shanties.
And then people go like, oh, that's nice.

(13:21):
Like, and so I don't like 'causeit's, it's, there's not a lot of
like historical comedy. Do you know, there's not a lot
of like, hilarious, like, anecdotes about, you know, St.
Urchin circa 1843? Holy, yeah, there isn't.
There's not, there's like, no, there's not historic.

(13:41):
Like there's like, you know, there's like speakers and stuff,
you know, there's like Ted like like entertaining Ted talks, but
there's not like a genre of comedy that's like like that
I've been able to find like correct me if I'm wrong, dear
listener, send me those links for please.
But there's not a lot of like, historians who are like, hey, do
you guys want to like hear this,like, weird thing?

(14:02):
Yeah. Like do you think?
Because I can think of like, I'mthinking they're historical
YouTube videos I think are really funny.
There's like Drunk History. Yeah.
There's like, yeah, there's Qi, quite interesting, a show on BBC
which is fantastic, Highly recommend.
Formerly hosted by Stephen Fry, but history based stand up

(14:22):
specifically like where the whole premise is that it's
talking about history. I can't think of anyone.
Like that's really awesome. And well, and it's been not to
toot my own horn, but in fact the opposite is that I, I think
I really struggle with self-confidence.
Like I like, I know this, I knowthis about myself.
I'm working on it, I'm working to do better.

(14:43):
But like I've always struggled with self-confidence and it's
because I've always been the weird kid, right?
I've always been the weird kid. And now I'm on this like very
real journey of like being the weird kid, but who gets to do
her own show. And so it's like, is it going to

(15:03):
be too weird? Is it, is the weird kid going to
do a weird show that people aren't going to get because
they're not weird? And so I don't know, like I'm
it's, it's weird. And there's, there's like a
couple, there's one woman. She's her name is Louisa Omelin,
I think is her last name. And she did a really fascinating
special about like Mary Magdalene and how like Mary

(15:27):
Magdalene has been like misaligned in our culture, but
it's really about like her mom and how like her mom died of
cancer. And so it's like this really
powerful special. And that was like, I think the
closest allegory that I've seen is like, oh, she's like kind of
talking about like history and like this research that she did.
But it's also like all of this other stuff at the same time.

(15:47):
I don't know, man, I don't know.It's really scary.
And I don't know, I feel like I just talked for a really long.
Time. No, not at all.
Yeah, I would. Just looked it up.
Louisa Amalin. Yeah, LUIAOM i.e.
LAN, Which is Yeah. I wouldn't have brought it up if
it wasn't spelled so radically different than I thought it was.
Gonna be it's a great spelling yeah, but no, she's like and

(16:09):
she's great and I've been I've been looking at her and like
kind of like the the way that she does her shows and stuff.
And so I've been drawing like inspiration for from like a lot
of different artists like Ruth Goodman, even our girl Ruth
Goodman. What up like friend of the pod,
friend of the podcast Ruth Goodman.
Like I think I might be the first comedian in history to
directly reference the work of Ruth Goodman in my comedy

(16:31):
special. But here we are Same with like
Lucy Worsley. Like I'm just like I don't know
like half of my comedy special is just being like I don't like
don't you guys don't need to give a fuck about me but like
y'all need to know what about like Ruth Goodman and what Lucy
Worsley is doing which is wild. I think both of them could crush
a stand up set if they like tooka class or two.

(16:53):
Maybe not Lucy Worsley because she's been presenting.
Well, they've both been presenting forever.
I bet they would both crush. It imagine, imagine like I just
want to go see Now You don't, which is the 10 years later
sequel to Now You See Me, which by the way, they invited me.
Oh God damn it, this fucking thing.
It's fine. It's zoomed in again.

(17:15):
They invited me to like a special like influencer showing
of Now You Don't. And I couldn't go because I was
I was working the event in Orlando.
But it was really funny because I got the e-mail and I like lost
my shit. I was like, I've done it, I've
made it. They know, they know.

(17:36):
That is really cool. I can think of nobody else more
deserving to go to that thing than you.
I think it'll be awesome. So silly.
I took to be a family on the wall in your brain as you're
watching it. Like actually people didn't
start doing that kind of magic until after this was this
flashback was set. Listen, we went to go see it
last night. No, two nights ago.

(17:56):
It was awful. It was so bad.
It was so bad. If they got the name right this
time, jeez. I was happy about the name, but
like the actual movie is there'slike this one part, there's just
one part. And I, it was so funny.
I called the magi and I was like, who?
Dear listener, if you don't know, I'm in a group chat of all
magicians and we call ourselves a magi because we're

(18:17):
pretentious. But I like, I texted them.
I was like, guys, we have to like recreate the scene the next
time we're together because there's a scene where they're
like, they just start doing, they like, start like magic
battling for like no reason. And they're like, like, now I'll
take the card and I'll do a magic trick with it.
And then somebody else is like, yes, but what you don't
understand is like, and then they do about it is the dumbest

(18:39):
shit I've ever seen in my life. And I love to have a single
goddamn minute. Oh yeah, that sounds delightful.
I, I, I honestly can't wait. I, I think the, the strategy of
setting yourself up a big thing like booking an auditorium for
this, for the, for this Turkey Christmas Carol performance such
to make yourself write it. I think that's a, that's a big

(19:00):
swing of a system and I commend it.
I think that's a really good idea.
I, I was actually, I, I inventeda system for the actual writing
of the show, which I, which I'vebeen excited about because I was
like, OK, I only have a couple of weeks.
I generally know what I want to say.
I, I have the research at least.Like the research has been done

(19:21):
and there's been like a little bit of like extra research that
I've been doing just to sort of like fill out a couple of
sections. But I've started this is, this
is so simple. It's so simple.
But instead of getting regular note cards, I started getting
note cards with the hole in the corner so you can put them on
the ring so the no cards stay inorder.

(19:43):
And then I bought like they're, they're, you know, they make
like sets of no cards that are like all different colors.
So I created like a color-coded system and then I can put them
on like the little key chain ring and the cards stay in order
so I can pull them out and I canbe like, OK, that fact goes
here, that fact goes here, that fact goes here.
But everything stays contained. And then I can have it on stage

(20:06):
because that's The thing is likeI, I was, I was really in my
head about. Is it legal?
Is it is it shitty to like have notes or read from a script or
whatever? You know, I come, I come from
Shakespeare world, right? Where it's like, if you don't
know your lines, you're absolutely fucking fucked.
And I just realized that for me and my brain, like I have like

(20:27):
I, I just want the reference andI'm just going to be honest
about that. Like I wrote a joke into the
show about the note cards, but then so that's the system.
So the show exists as a series of like bullet points that I can
flip through, but they they're Ican't drop them, they can't get
out of order. They're all color-coded.
So I also know like what's coming down the pipe.

(20:49):
And that is super useful, Eric. Oh yeah, I think it's really
amazing how sometimes the smallest little alterations to
physical objects can dramatically revolutionize how a
system works for you. Yeah, literally a hole in the
corner of the note, the note card versus no hole.
It completely changed my abilityto like get stuff done.

(21:14):
And it has gone. I've gotten, Yeah, it's, it's
wild. And it doesn't always have to be
like buying something like the analogy or the way that I used
to always think about that was awater bottle you like to hold
versus a water bottle you don't,which is a thing.
But also that journey involves like, you know, buying a bunch
of different water bottles and giving probably Jeff Bezos a

(21:35):
bunch of your money. But a lot of times it doesn't
have to be that way. You know, punch a little hole in
that bad boy. Keeping things on the right side
of your desk versus the left. I think that's like a one of the
unsung heroes of like making something plug into your brain.
Well is just finding those little rubs or trying or knowing
that there is a rub and not being able to find it, but then
altering the things around you and altering your your tools and

(21:55):
materials and stuff such to hopefully get it plugged into
your brain in the right way. This is a true story.
I've literally bought 5 phone cases this week and I have a
pile of phone cases that I need to return because my phone case
broke. Which is tragic because you know
how long it took me to pick out the first phone case.
Yeah, you had that one for. I've had I, yeah, I've had it
for forever, yeah. There it is.

(22:18):
Yeah, I've had it for forever and it finally broke and so now
I have to get a new one. And so I've literally bought 5
and they get to the house and I'll like feel it and I'm like,
it's not right. I can't like I'm not.
So I have this bowl full of Amazon phone case that would.
Be a fun party idea. That's a great sitcom.
It's you throw a party. But really it's just to try to

(22:39):
get people to take those phone cases, right?
Let's take a phone case on your way out.
You know, if you want. Have a fruit, maybe that's what
I'll do at that. Oh my God, I should give people
fruit snacks on the way out of the show.
Oh yeah, but only on the way out.
Yeah, no, cuz they're gonna be like the whole time, yeah.
Oh yeah, the crinkles too. Gorge.
I'm curious like how does that does make good podcasting?

(23:02):
How does that show up for you? Like a like a small change in a
system. A lot of the times it's whether
or not I think of it and then whether or not then once I've
thought of it, it's am I actively uncomfortable in my
hands? So like first, if I enjoy
something actively, I'm more likely to think of it.
So like, I like making eggs a lot.

(23:24):
I enjoy knowing what's happeningchemically inside of the egg.
I love all the the, the manual processes involved in making an
egg. I love the sound of making an
egg. You know this the I know I love
when I thought about. The sound of an egg.
Oh, you got it. Awesome.
I love when I put a pad of butter on the on the pan.

(23:45):
I can I know that butter is 30% water by weight and I know that
that initial sizzle is the waterin it boiling.
So as it goes and you hear the water boiling, eventually that
quiets down, which means it's OKnow to or excuse me, which means
now I'm more likely to burn the butter because there's no water
stopping to my arm reaction fromhappening.
So like, I love the entire process, but if there's a like

(24:09):
a, there's a, there's a, I don'tknow, a rub in that process,
like an electric burner that only that heats the pan unevenly
or a pan that is concave on the bottom so that all the oil goes
to the outside of the pan. I'm aware of what's not
happening that I want to be happening.
And so it makes me not want to do that.

(24:29):
So if I enjoy something, I'm more likely to think of it.
But if there's a rub in that process that takes those things
that away that I enjoy, I'm lesslikely to do it.
So a lot of the times it's aboutasking myself, is there a
version of this that I could enjoy?
And then trying to facilitate that in any way that I can.
And for me, because I'm a maker of things and like working with
my hands, it's do I need any physical objects to aid in that

(24:54):
process? And then it's, can I make that?
Should I get it? Can I make it out of the stuff I
already have? And then it just then my brain
just fires off and I lose time and I wake up three hours later
with 14 instruments and whatever, you know?
But yeah. So for me, it's it's a lot about
that process of exploring. I've really asked myself, is
there a version of this task that I could enjoy?

(25:15):
And then going from there. And a lot of times the answer is
no, but a lot of times the answer is yes.
And that's pretty cool. Hey, everybody, Guess what?
We wrote a book. What?
We did. We wrote it with our fingers and
our minds. What's it called?
It's called the ADHD Field Guidefor adults is what.

(25:36):
What's it about? It's a field guide for adults.
It's a biography of Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
That's right. Exactly.
And dear listener, you can reserve your copy wherever there
is a book to be bought, but we would love to encourage you to
reserve your copy through bookshop.org.
They do amazing work giving backto independent bookstores in
your community. And hey, we get it, things not

(26:00):
amazing right now, the world a little bit on fire.
If you don't have the cash, if you don't have the scrap,
totally get that. Totally see you.
We would also love it and would be absolutely honored if you
would request your local librarypick up a copy.
So not only are you helping yourself get access to a freezy,
you're also helping other peoplein your community and you're

(26:21):
supporting local libraries. That's like a triple win.
So if you can't pre-order it, atleast go ask for it from your
local library. Yeah, I kind of three wins there
and that is an inordinate numberof wins in that.
Scenario dubs dubs. That's the whole world wide.
Web trips, that is the whole World Wide Web, that is true,
but it's a it took a long time to write.
We've been working on it for about 3 years now.

(26:42):
That's crazy. It doesn't feel like it's been
three years, but it really it's been three years.
It has been three years, so it is extant, it's written.
I think we're both quite proud of it.
It covers a lot of stuff that wetalked about in the podcast and
our Tik Toks and stuff, but in amuch more sort of concise
practice to form. And we think you might get a lot
of use out of it, I think perhaps.
And I don't this is. I feel like this is a really

(27:05):
long pre roll ad now, but it's fine.
But one of the things that we'rereally excited about is that we
got, we really fought hard to include topics that aren't
present in other books about ADHD.
And so there are sections about trans folks and non binary folks
and BIPOC folks and all sorts ofdifferent things.
And we went to real life expertsin their field who have guest
written chapters. The book is also full of

(27:27):
comments and questions that we've gotten from community
members. So who knows?
Dear listener, if you submitted,your comment might be in the
book. I.
Don't know what that face was. I do.
That was the what up face what up?
But anyways, thank you for listening to this entire mid
role if you've gotten through it.

(27:47):
Or you also might just be hearing this because you've been
pressing skip for a little while.
I don't know. But anyways, thank you for
considerate Frankie for buying our book, or at least for your
consideration of buying our book.
I guess back to the back to the show.
Sponsor Red Casper bastards. No, just kidding.
The friendly ghosts. Have by ourselves, I think I

(28:14):
mean some of it too, though, is where do you draw the line?
Because that's something I circle with.
Like the phone case is a really good example, right?
Because it's like, I could go online and be like phone case
and buy the first one that pops up and be done right.
I have something that serves theturn.
But my brain goes, actually, youdo need to spend the next three

(28:36):
to five business days researching every single phone
case on the market and like, which one is good and which one
is not. And then on top of that, then
it's like, OK, you've got the model, but like, what about
color? What about style?
Like, you know, and then like I,I'm a sociopath and so I keep my
like all my cards and stuff on the back of my phone.
So it's like 1 one thing to hold.

(28:58):
But then it's like, OK, do I getthe push up wallet?
Do I get the fold out wallet? Do I get the pop socket wallet?
Like which is going to be like the, the optimum thing?
And sometimes I can get so lost in the sauce when it comes to
figuring out the perfect system that I'm just neglecting
everything else. Everything else Like life.
Yeah. But I guess I suppose it kind of

(29:20):
turns to how big the initial investment is both monetarily in
terms of time, all the all thosetypes of things.
Because in your case, in your case, I didn't even do that on
purpose. Because in your case, you are
purchasing objects that take time to get to your house and
then you got to return them if you don't have them.
And if you don't return them, then it costs extra money.

(29:41):
So there's like actual monetary risk involved in not picking the
right one. So I I suppose, but whereas if
you're making something, if you're taking objects and just
manipulating them, unless I'm buying a whole bunch of stuff,
then it's it's sunk time. And both of those things can
stop you from doing the thing that needs to happen.

(30:03):
Like if I spent every morning spending a bunch of time
figuring out how to, and more consistently brush my teeth or
more consistently, I don't know,shower, whatever it is, that is
time I'm spending, not showering.
You know, I mean, not necessarily.
I mean every iteration can sort of breathe.

(30:23):
Its, oh, I, I, you know, I don'tknow, put my slippers in the
bathroom instead of outside the bathroom so I don't even have to
walk those two steps to the thing.
But so I suppose you, it is a matter of, of, of, of cost and
risk. And I think I, I sort of draw
the line of, if I can't make it enjoyable, can I at least make

(30:44):
it work? And then enjoying the fact that
it works. So like if you get a phone case
that is an optimal, still enjoying the fact that I now
have a phone case that does holdmy things.
Like, yes, it would be slightly better if it was this.
I should look into getting one of those.
But enjoying the fact that it isat least been addressed to some
extent and going like that was cool.

(31:06):
Like I'm trying, you know, it's trying to make the the success
of a system, whether or not it'senjoyable, be enjoyable in and
of itself can help me. What do you do when a system
fails? Cry in bed for a while.
Give up forever. No, I don't cry.
I cry a lot, but it's usually like at media, I don't cry a lot

(31:27):
about that kind of thing. I dissociate, so I will.
Yes, I will go in bed if my systems fail, particularly in
the morning. I've realized that my morning
systems are the most critical. So if I find myself not getting
out of bed, would I need to get out of bed or not eating
breakfast or not taking my meds?That can that just destroys the
rest of my day. And your life is made-up of

(31:48):
days. So that can really have a
serious impact at some point. But when I do, when I when my
systems fail, is try to address which one is the most important
one. Try to make a priority structure
because when your systems fail, it tends to be a cascading
effect. One system fails, which causes
another system to fail, which causes another system to fail
until eventually you are just, you know, you pull the covers

(32:11):
over your head and you don't getout of bed.
So I think when that starts to happen, try to address what the
first domino was. What is the first system that
needs to be implemented such that I'm capable of conquering
the next one. And for me, that is whatever
gets me literally out of bed. Now I have a lot of sensory
sleeping. I can't sleep in a shirt or if I

(32:32):
get in bed and I sleep in a shirt, I move where I toss
eternal on. I'm very hyperactive at bed as I
am as brew where else. And so if I'm wearing a shirt,
the likelihood of me getting back into bed dramatically
decreases. So first step is physically get
out of bed because you know, ultimately your systems occur
during a day in the morning is the first thing that happens

(32:53):
during the day. So I, if for me, it has to start
with the first thing that happens and that's physically
standing up out of bed. I have, I've tried systems for
that. Put your alarm clock on the
other side of the room, you know, get weird things to happen
that you have to get out of bed to address.
But in my, my, in my experience,I just have to white knuckle it
and just force myself 123 go hurt and just get up.

(33:13):
But then put on clothes, put on a shirt, put on pants, even if
it's dirty, even if it's whatever, you know, we'll work
on putting on nice clothes or clean clothes or whatever.
But putting on clothes dramatically reduces the
likelihood that I'll get back into bed, which is the enemy in
the morning because that's all Iwant to do.
And I can't brush my teeth from bed.
I can't make breakfast from bed.I can't do all the things that I

(33:34):
need to, I know I need to do to sort of become a person that
day. So I start with the first
domino, getting out of bed, thenputting on clothes, then
thinking of what I'm going to cook because I like cooking.
So it's almost like a little treat, you know, like you get to
cook breakfast, but you can't cook breakfast in bed.
You literally, you just can't doit.
I mean I probably could figure something out but but I can't do

(33:58):
that from bed. So anyways, when I what do I do
when my systems fail? I try to figure out what the
order of failure is, what fails first, what fails second, what
fails 3rd, and try to figure outwhat the first one was and start
from there, which for me is almost always getting out of bed
I. Hate getting out of bed.
It's the worst part of my day. Every single day.

(34:18):
I'm like 5-5 you know? And then I feel lazy.
Yeah, right. And that's, that's, I mean, I, I
do want to point out it to, to any of you dear listeners who
are thinking, oh, I also hate getting out of bed and I
frequently don't do it when I'd like to.
Therefore I am a piece of shit or something like that.
You're not, you're not a lot of people are making a lot of money
on, on getting you to just stay in bed and and watch ads on your

(34:41):
phone, whether it's on your phone game or on TikTok or on
YouTube or any other number. So the odds are stacked against
you. We live in a a time where
dopamine is available at the swipe of a thumb, so.
I I had that was that actually has become part of my morning
system is that I will not pick up my like I'll turn off my
alarm, but then I immediately like I'll get up.

(35:04):
I get up. I'm I'm not like a OK
immediately out of bed person, but like I'll get up, but I
don't engage with my phone anymore.
So I'll take Bailey for a walk. I'll make coffee, I'll make
breakfast, whatever. I also started drinking a glass
of water in the morning which isso annoying but it like actually
helps and it makes me feel better for the whole day and I'm
like bro it's disgusting. Can I totally derail you for a

(35:26):
second? I'm sorry, can I follow that?
Why does that like? Cuz I fucking hate water.
It's so boring and it's like even when I make it like nice,
even when I like I've like I made that system even I was
like, okay, I like like water isboring.
I don't like water, but I was like, OK, ice water, superior,
the superior of water. Absolutely.
Unmatched. Unmatched.

(35:47):
But then I was like what? So then I found these like
electrolyte packets that I really like.
So they taste. So now the water tastes like
bomb pops, which is like, that'sabout as good as I've been able
to get it. But I think it's just like, it's
also the amount of water cuz it's like if I drink a little
bit of water then I'm still thirsty and I am like, that
wasn't enough water. But if I drink like a big ass

(36:08):
cup of water then it's like oh, now my tummy is full of water
and I'm like all sloshy. You know when you feel sloshy,
Yes. I do.
Like I, I don't like feeling sloshy, so I was like, I had to
like figure out like the amount of water to drink that was like
somewhere between I'm still dehydrated, but I'm not sloshy.
And that was like a really fine,it was fine place.

(36:29):
And So what I usually do is I'lldrink like half a glass of
water, then I'll drink coffee, then I'll drink the rest of the
glass of water and then I'll refill the glass of water.
And now I have a glass of water to drink while I'm like going
upstairs to like start work. So like that's kind of become
the like system, but I forget what we were talking about.
What to do with you when your systems fail?

(36:50):
And then I started asking you about water.
Well, the, the, the reason I asked you about water and, and
well, the reason I asked you about water is that that had a
tinge. And I don't I'm not only to tell
you how you feel, but when you said and I I'm going to hate
water because you know, that hadadjusted AA-OF pathological
demand. Of water.
Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely.How do you, I, I think that

(37:14):
works there. Yeah.
It's, it's really interesting because I've, I've never really
felt like somebody to whom like the sort of like odd
pathological demand avoidance, like whatever you call it, like
any of that stuff like really resonated.
Do you know what I mean? I was like, I was like, yeah, I
don't, I don't, I don't, that doesn't really like fit.

(37:35):
But there are places where I will feel that I will feel that
resistance to like, I'm supposedto be doing this thing or like,
this is the way you're supposed to do something.
And I'll, I'll feel like a little bit of like resentment or
a little bit of like, well, I'm not going to do it just because
you told me to type of that might just be bratting.
I don't fucking know. But yeah.
And so like, so like water is one of those ones where I'm
like, I genuinely don't really like water.

(37:58):
I drink it. I drink a lot of water, but a
lot of times I'm like powering through because I'm like, OK, I
need to be hydrated, but it's not because I'm like genuinely
enjoying the experience of water.
But I've also like tried a lot of different things, right?
Like I've tried water flavoring,I've tried like sparkling water,
which is why why does sparkling water exist?

(38:21):
What like you want, not only do you want it, why do you want
your water to be uncomfortable? I don't understand.
I don't understand. You know, it's like, OK, well,
maybe I need a different water bottle.
And then it's like, OK, so now it's like I have like my
favorite cups. I have my favorite cups that I
like to drink water out of. And there are of, of the cups in
the house, there are two acceptable water cups and those
are the ones that I like. I'll drink water out of those

(38:43):
and it's more fine than it is when I'm not using, you know,
the right cups or like the temperature is off for like
we're out of ice or whatever. But it's still like, I guess I
have to fucking drink water. And this is how I feel also to
derail on my own derailment. But this is a lot of like being
in recovery for like my eating disorder stuff has been a lot of

(39:06):
that is a lot of that like therehas to be a structure.
Like to be in recovery, there has to be a structure.
But I resent the structure, and the structure is fucking
annoying. And the structure often
interrupts my day or is otherwise inconvenient.
And so being in a place where it's like, OK, you have to do
the thing, you have to have the snack or you have to make sure

(39:28):
that you, like, get, you know, Xnumber of protein grams or
whatever, like that. That's a lot of times where I
start to feel that resistance oflike, well, do it, but I'm not
going to be like happy about it,you know, I don't know.
Do it in a resentful way, just like.
I do though, and it helps like that's the thing.

(39:49):
That's what that's that is genuinely one of the things that
helps, especially like when I don't want to do the dishes or I
don't want to clean, I will literally like stomp around and
I will put on a little fucking tantrum show because it's like
I'm home alone. Nobody's there to witness.
And I'm like, I don't do the fucking dishes.
Fuck. And I'm like yell and I'll
scream and I'll throw a tantrum while I'm doing the dishes.

(40:10):
And so and then the dishes get done and I get to like.
Externalize my like, I fucking hate doing this and it's so
fucking annoying and it actuallyhelps.
And I looked it up and like scientifically, there's like a
neuroscience thing to that. There's like a, there's a real
effect of acknowledging that you're like, oh, this sucks and
I hate it. I'm having a bad time.
Fuck, it actually helps you do the thing, which I think is fun.

(40:34):
Oh, yeah, I guess is you're, you're naming it, you know, like
especially when I'm trying to dosomething that I feel is less
something that I should just be able to do.
I am constantly trying to convince myself to not feel that
way because I feel like I'm not supposed to feel that way.
So if I have to do laundry or something like that and I'm
really avoiding it and I hate it.

(40:54):
And I'm like, I don't want to admit that I feel that way
because I'm trying to convince myself and get myself out of it.
But that's just not going to happen because that is the way
that I feel. And so I feel like by by going,
I don't want to fucking do laundry, like, and then slogging
to wherever it is that you do laundry.
I think for me, I feel like thatwould help because it gets rid

(41:15):
of the secondary internal battleof trying to convince myself to
feel some other sort of way about it because I'm not
supposed to resent that I'm doing this.
It's stupid. Like, what do you mean supposed
to be like, come on. Yeah, come on.
Like, well, I mean, I, I, you know how I feel about just, but
like just and supposed to like live really close to each other.
And I think that there's a lot of places where it's like, oh,

(41:36):
we're we're just supposed to be able to do these things easily
or it's not supposed to be like that big of a deal.
But they are and they are challenging.
And so it's to me, I'm like, I would rather in the privacy of
my own home, throw my own littleshit fit and, and have like and
honestly have fun with it. Like it's fun.

(41:57):
It's fun to. Were you listening to fucking
Tik toks? No, I, I want to reference one
in a second, but I want to shoutout, shout out the person who
made the video because it's awesome.
But no, like, but, but I, I really think that there's
something to even like hamming it up, like giving yourself
permission to play in the space of like, I'm having a bad time
and everything is bad and terrible because you start to

(42:18):
see that it's like, it's it, it really is.
You're, you're just doing the dishes, you know, and you're
like, yeah, this fucking sucks ass.
But like nobody's dying, you know?
And so I think it's, it's, I think it's fun.
I think it's fun to, to have those moments of like, fuck,
everything is terrible. Fuck, shit, fuck.
And then they the dishes get done, and sometimes they get

(42:38):
done a little bit better or moreefficiently than they would have
otherwise because you're having fun with it.
Yeah, it makes it kind of silly,yeah.
Yeah, exactly. It's, it's, it's all very silly.
This whole thing, this whole person thing, we're really like
have to think thoughts and no language and stuff.
It's all very silly. It's.
A silly thing. But I'm like avoiding doing
things. I'm consistently fascinated with

(42:58):
the seeming physical inability that I have to start doing
something once my brain has decided that I'm not going to do
it. That's that task initiation,
baby. And there's a Tik toker named
KDI Merck KDIMERC. You've probably seen them
around. She's a voice actress.
She does a lot of tongue twisters with people like send

(43:19):
her weird hard things to say, but she's fantastic.
I highly recommend it. She just made a video.
She calls the hot stove conundrum where and she talks
about how if you are standing infront of a hot stove and you are
going to touch the stove, your brain it, it's, it's physically
hard to do that. It's not just hard to convince
yourself to do it, but once you have convinced yourself to do it

(43:41):
for what I mean is a hypothetical, you shouldn't
touch hot stoves. Your whole body will try to
prevent you from touching the stove like you're you'll go, go
and your hand will just not do it.
Like what what is happening? Or like jumping off of a, a, a
high thing. If you're like jumping off the
high dive, you're like, I've decided I'm going to do this,
here we go. I'm going to do this.

(44:02):
But your body just goes, no, no,it's a physiological,
neurological thing. And in this video, she brings up
that what if your brain assigns that quality to other things
doing the dishes? What if my brain has decided
that the dishes are also a hot stove and doing them would be

(44:22):
akin to touching a hot stove. I all of my body, my whole well,
conscious brain can be going andnow it's dishes time, but it
just it doesn't happen. And I was remarkable one.
That's a fantastic analogy, but as a person who experiences that
very consistently, both with consistent specific things doing

(44:45):
the dishes, although I've been getting better at that lately.
Good shout out to me, but also other seemingly random things
like I'll be in the store, for example, and I'll be about to
like at the grocery store, I'll be about to get out, you know,
check out and like, all right, and that's everything.
And then I'll think of another thing to get like, oh, I really
wanted like cream of mushroom soup because I was going to make

(45:07):
stroganoff later this week or something like that.
And I'll be like not even far away from where the cream of
mushroom soup is. But I'll just no fucking way am
I going to do that. I just walked around the entire
store going to various aisles getting I've already, I'm
already doing that, but no fucking way am I going to go get
that cream of mushroom soup for no reason.

(45:28):
Like what could possibly be causing that?
Like that is so strange. Short answer, I don't know what
is actually causing that. I mean, I could go go deep into
it, but I do know that that is the feeling.
It is the hot stove feeling. We're like I'm like, Eric, go
get it. Like you want this like we've we
were thinking about this yesterday.
How like it's right there. You're here, like go and my
there's just no Nope, Nope. And it's it's it's my brain.

(45:52):
It's it's feels like a self preservation thing in my brain.
Like if I were to do that, I would get hurt somehow, like
dramatically hurt. So the hot stove thing, her
putting language that again, I'mKatie Eimer.
I just can't. She makes amazing videos in
general, but that one's a hell of a dinger.
Like, now that I have a word forthat, I'm noticing how
frequently and how readily my brain will assign the hot stove

(46:14):
idea to. And I'm honestly scared, but
also kind of excited to like, figure out now that I have a
name for it and can address it, what am I going to do about
that? Because if I could figure out a
general system for the hot stoveconundrum, holy shit, that would
be useful. Because right now I'm doing it
on a case by case basis. How to get myself to do the

(46:35):
dishes, how to get myself to brush my teeth, how to get
myself to go pick up my meds. But if I can figure out a
general system that works for mefor the hot stove thing, that
would be a life changer. Holy hell.
She has some solutions in the video, but I don't want to just
straight up steal all of her content.
Go watch the video, it's awesome.
I mean, I don't know, like I, I like the diving board metaphor a

(46:56):
lot because I, I remember like, you know, being a kid, you like
climb up to the high dive. Like I'm going to do it.
I'm going to show up, tell my friends.
And then you get up there and you look over, you're like, holy
fuck, this is way scarier than Ithought it was going to be.
Well, fuck. And then you have that choice,
right? Do you jump or you do the walk
of shame and you climb back down?
And I was like, I was never, I think I'm just obstinate.

(47:17):
I think is, is one of my skills is I am obstinate.
And so I was like, I'm unwillingto take the L And so, so a lot
of times I will do the dishes orI will do the thing that I don't
want to do out of spite. I'll do it out of spite.
I'm like, yeah, this sucks and Ihate it.
But like, everybody's expecting me to climb back down the
ladder. Everybody's expecting me to like

(47:38):
have a shitty kitchen or whatever.
And I'm like, I'm just making that up, you know, like nobody
gives a shit, but I'll, but I'lldo that.
And it helps, right? And I think that there is, I'm
always curious about the most interesting thing, the most
interesting thing that could happen, right?
And I think it's way more interesting to jump off the
diving board than it is to climbback down the ladder, cuz you
get a completely different experience.

(48:00):
And so I've already climbed up the ladder.
So I know what that's like, but I don't know, you know what I
mean. And so jumping off the diving
board or touching the hot stove,like don't touch a hot stove,
dear listener, but like it's good.
It's something interesting is going to happen.
We talk, I mean, we talk about that in the book.
We literally talk about that in the book, like in the self harm
chapter, right, Like don't touchhot stoves.
But like sometimes something interesting happens, right?

(48:23):
And that's The upshot. And so like, I don't know, like,
I think that that's that's I do that a lot.
Like my fix is just, I just go, what would be more interesting?
And, and I think it's more interesting to just get the
thing done because then you can just move on with your day, you.
Don't have to keep do other shit.
Yeah, I think for me it's it's interesting what's more

(48:44):
interesting and then what makes for a more useful tool.
So like if you're to think of everything as a tool, like a bed
is a tool, a sink is a tool, a car is a tool, what makes for a
more useful tool? Like if I was using a a drill
press or a belt Sander or a third tool and there was

(49:05):
something wrong with it that that caused it to be less
useful. The blade was dull, the Chuck
isn't spinning true. So the the thing wanders, the
drill bit wanders. I would fix it, you know, just
because, you know, I want it to be a useful tool.
So like I usually go either what's more interesting or what
makes for a more useful tool. A sink is a more useful tool if
it's empty and clean. A bed is a slightly more useful

(49:28):
tool if it's made. However, I don't think a made
bed is a significantly more useful enough tool to get me to
make my bed in the morning. Like sometimes I'll do it just
to, to to for the vibes, you know, like if I feel this, you
know, disorganized and whatever,I'll make my bed just to feel
like have some control and get get a get a little win.
But generally speaking, I don't I don't it's not useful.

(49:50):
It's not so much more useful when it's made than when it's
not made that I do it consistently do.
You want to hear my deeply pretentious workaround of that?
Because I too hate making the bed.
But do you know what I did? I got, I waited till like a
really good sale because I'm nota wealthy man, but I got linen
sheets. And The thing is, is that with
linen sheets, the vibe is that they're always like wrinkled and

(50:12):
they're like a little bit like rumpled.
And so like the vibe of a bed that is like all linen and
unmade is still like aesthetic. And so literally that's what I
did is I was like, I'm, I'm gonna use these sheets and these
blankets because when you look at it, you're like, oh, it's
like, it's a vibe. It's like, it's like, oh, it's
like. And that literally makes me feel

(50:34):
better about my butt. Yeah, I'm picturing like, like
pristine translucent white drapes, just like billowing in
the Tuscan wind or something like.
That Céline Dion is there like. Yeah, exactly.
Oh, it's time to take my meds. Oh boy.
Oh boy, right now. Yeah, give me a second.
OK, it's cool. Oh, wait, no, I already took

(50:55):
those lobby. They're blood pressure meds.
So I yeah, so well, also quick aside in terms of systems, a
very subtle change I've made to my Med taking thing that has
helped me immensely is rather. So generally, generally do
whatever your doctor says. Generally speaking, you you're

(51:16):
taking meds at roughly the same time every day.
You know, if you're taking a once a day, take this like you
want to take it at the same time.
Again, unless your doctor says otherwise, do what your doctor
says. So I'm always like, all right,
cool, I'm going to take my antidepressants at 9:00 in the
morning. Like right when I get up, take
my antidepressants. But I don't get up at exactly
the same time every day unless I'm working a very consistent
job. I want a very consistent

(51:36):
schedule, but I rarely AM. And so night time, I'll take
them before I go to bed. I don't go to bed at the same
time every night. Not even close.
Yeah. That's fake.
That's right. That's totally fake.
And so a friend of mine actuallytold me about this, but she said
just take your meds at like 7th.Pick a random time in the
afternoon after you've gotten home from work or after you've

(51:58):
finished what you're doing. Or just a random time where like
I don't get out of bed at the same time every day or go to bed
at the same time every day. But at 7:45, generally speaking,
I'm sitting watching TV, making a little puppet or something.
Like that's pretty much constantly what I'm doing.
Or if I'm not doing that, I'm doing something in a comparable
location and setting. So I started taking my meds at
7:45. And like neurotypical wisdom

(52:20):
says, either you take them in the morning when you wake up or
you take them before bed. Those are like the two times
that you're for some reason thatwe as a society have decided a
person takes meds. But that has never worked for
me. So just 7:45 I have an alarm on
my phone that's set for every day and I've taken them everyday
for a while. That's great.
And same with blood pressure medication.

(52:41):
Like if I set them for I'm always up at 9:00 at night.
Like you know, I can do that, but I'm not always up at 9:00 in
the morning. So I was like, what is what
numerical time am I up for both 11 I am always up at 11:00 in
the morning and I am always up at 11:00 at night.
Boom, everyday. And it's like, that's so simple,
but just that subtle getting ridof that expectation of you

(53:02):
either take them right after youwake up or right before you go
to bed, which for some reason isjust the common wisdom.
By getting rid of that, it is changed the game in terms of
taking my meds. Sometimes I'll take my blood
pressure medications a little bit early if I wake up
particularly early. But either way, I was amazed at
how much that has changed the game.
And I just wanted to make sure Ithrew that out there to anybody
who might need it, even though it was a bit apropos of not a

(53:25):
well, I guess it was apropos of my phone going off, but now I'm
just. No, it's fine.
Also same thing happened to me. I switched medication.
I'm on Jornay now, which is likethe PMADHD release.
I've heard about that, which is I really like it.
I really like it. I was surprised at how much I
did, but I kept fucking myself over because I had my meds next

(53:49):
to my bed because you have to take them before you go to bed.
And so I was like, oh, I will put them in the bedroom and then
that way when I'm getting ready to go to bed, then I'll take my
meds. But the problem is that I go to
bed like 1-2, sometimes 3:00 in the morning.
And so, and it's like a time release thing.
So the meds, I would take them then and then the meds weren't
kicking in until like 4:00 PM the next day.

(54:12):
And I was like fucking my life up.
So I moved them. That was it.
I literally moved them. I was like, oh, I shouldn't take
them before bed. I should take them at dinner
because I eat dinner around like7-8 nine and it's like a 12 hour
delay. So if I take my meds around 789,
they'll start working around 789in 12 hours.

(54:33):
And so I literally just moved on.
And so now instead of by my bed,they're on like the little table
next to the couch. And then every night at dinner I
just take the meds then. And I was like, problem solved,
problem solved. But it was like it was such a
problem in terms of like, oh, I'm going to bed at like 230 now
and I haven't taken the meds andI forgot that they existed.
And now I'm looking at them like, fuck.

(54:54):
Like it was like this whole thing and all of it just got
fixed because I went boop and I'm just going to put them over
here instead. Yeah.
It's funny how that works. It is it.
It just shows to go. Like, I think I started talking
about this a while ago, but so many times the system that works
for us is right next to what we're already doing.
And it's so easy to get caught up in other things of like, I'm

(55:17):
going to make these big sweepingchanges or I'm going to do it
the way that the neurotypicals apparently do it or whatever it
is. So many times it's just a small
tweak and there's some preventative thought or
preventative notion that we havethat got put there by someone at
some point that is preventing usfrom making that change.
And so I think that's why like really rigorous self

(55:37):
exploration, but also light like, don't criticize, don't
like hate yourself over it, but just sort of going, why are we
curious that huh, that's that's interesting that I do that and
starting there rather than starting with I don't know what
is correct versus what is incorrect.
It's like, well, who are you, you know?
Well, and, and I don't know. So the something that I thought

(55:59):
was really interesting was that I traveled with my mom recently.
We went on a cruise and watchinglike watching the things that my
mom will not allow herself or not give herself or like
disallow because like it's weirdor it's strange or like this
weird and internalized idea thateveryone is watching all the

(56:20):
time. And not only are they watching,
but they're judging. And so if you do something a
certain way or you do something a little bit funny, then like
it's going to like there's going, it's going to cause an
issue. And it was, it was really eye
opening. It was really eye opening as
somebody who's like been in therapy and like working through
all this stuff on my own to watch my mom get like upset or,

(56:40):
or worried that like, Oh no, if I do it this way, people are
going to think something of it. But like, stuff that like, we're
like alone in our room. We're alone in our room.
There's no one there to perceivethe action.
And she's still thinking like, well, it might be weird if I do
it this way or whatever. And, and I think that if, and I,

(57:03):
I, I hear that, I mean, I do that to myself, if I'm, you
know, I'm being honest, but I, Ihear that so often from our
listeners and from our readers is, is people who are like,
well, I don't want to do it thatway because it might be weird.
It might be strange, it might bedifferent.
And I'm like. But if it works, If it works.

(57:23):
Yeah. If it what?
Don't do that. Just just do the thing that
works. Just do the thing.
I hate the word just but like just do it, you know, I don't
know. It's it's I would love to study
that someday. I would love to study the places
that we self sabotage and we we,we, we actively set ourselves up

(57:47):
for failure because of this perceived notion of like, what
is weird, what is normal? What is OK?
I don't know. I think there's maybe something
there. Oh yeah, I, I think we're, we're
getting towards the end. So I don't want to start on a
whole thing, but I, I think that's one of the more
fascinating things that I consistently see happen in
myself and consistently hear is happening with other people is

(58:07):
that there's some voice in theirhead that is telling them that
that's weird. And I think that it's the same
voice that we resent when we have pathological demand
avoidance is we're resenting that voice because we know that
that voice is bullshit. I think figuring out what that
voice is, or at least I mean, atfirst, I think just naming it,

(58:29):
recognizing when it's there and then doing some work and in a
self explosion to figure out whothat voice is.
You know, where does that come from?
Does it come from, you know, my religion when I was a kid?
Does it does it come from the experience I had in elementary
school? Did it come from my coach who
would talk to me in a certain way or more likely some
combination of all those things?But that is one of the more

(58:52):
insidious things in in my life, in my life for sure.
But also it seems like a lot of other people's I like genuinely,
I think that would be an amazingthing to study.
Why do we do that? What is Because it's, it's
almost like it, it goes back to like our earlier hunter gatherer
days or was like a survival instinct to keep the your

(59:14):
dissenters voices in in your head even when they're not
around, you know, because who knows?
Yeah. But I think, I don't know, it's
also like, I feel like the, the,it's one of those things where,
you know, we talk like that fucking thing about, you know,
everybody with ADHD, they were meant to be a hunter or whatever
the stupid fuck. But like some of it is also
like, well, social media though,like tick tock cheeses now you

(59:38):
know, it's like, it's not that deep.
Just load the dishwasher in a way that works for you.
Don't think, don't think too much about it.
But the, but I, I honestly thinkthat I think sometimes the
evaluating of the system, the, the, the I'm going to spend the
next, you know, two weeks figuring out the best and most
perfect way to load the dishwasher or the phone case or

(01:00:01):
whatever it may be. Sometimes that is the sabotage.
Sometimes you can we, I don't know, but I don't say we, but
like, I get trapped in the like,Oh, well, there must be a better
way to do this. There must be a perfect way to
do this that is different than what I'm doing.
And if I spend a bunch of time and energy researching or trying
to figure that out, I'm not actually doing the dishes.

(01:00:21):
The dishes are not getting done,but it feels like I'm making
progress. Press on dishes being done
because I'm, you know, watching YouTube videos about the most
efficient way to load the dishwasher.
And it's just a different type of procrastination.
And it's just a different type of like being resistant to the
actual action of doing the dishes.
Oh, totally. And I think that the

(01:00:42):
counterpoint that I try to say in my own brain when I do that
is really what research would beinto.
The best way to do the dishes would be doing the dishes or
unloading the dishwasher and watching yourself do it and then
do a post mortem after that. Not necessarily watching YouTube
videos, but iterate the process as many times as possible.
So like, checkmate myself. Booking a theater and doing the

(01:01:07):
Turkey video live. There you go, that's the way to
figure it out. Hey, it's the end of the
episode. Do we have any housekeeping
notes that we need to note? We have a book coming out you.
Can buy it if you want. Yeah you can buy it if you want.
It's available for pre-order now, link in description or if
you follow us on the things, it is available in our BIOS on any

(01:01:29):
one of those things. Oh, and we're recording the
audio book version. A lot of you have asked about
the audio book. We are in fact recording the
audio book and in fact we are recording the audio book in not
but a fortnight. Yeah, I keep thinking like,
should I take like voice classesto, you know, like you're gonna.
You can take voice lessons for aweek before we record.
The audio book Do You Know Tony Starket?

(01:01:51):
OK Hello, my name is Eric Goot and I wrote a book.
And do it all like that. That's great.
Yeah, I've never. I'm really curious to see what
the process is like for that. Yeah, me.
Too, albeit packs you this weekend so I'm only doing 1
panel but you can catch me thereand then.

(01:02:12):
Yeah, I guess like the Turkey video drops hopefully on
Thanksgiving. I'm seriously thinking about
just like editing it that night and then posting it.
But we'll see how the editing process goes.
But. Sorry, I thought you were going
to say butt and then some other things.
No, I just trailed off halfway through my thoughts.

(01:02:33):
That's fine. But yeah, I guess the book is a
bit Is is is is purchasable now,if not extant?
Well, it's extant to us. We have it because we wrote the
thing. But it shall be printed soon,
and then it will be yours and you can pre-order it and all
that stuff. Oh, and I yeah, it's been a
minute. I started a newsletter, dear
Listener. So if you want to get in on the

(01:02:54):
newsletter, newsletter is a really good place.
It's where I'm going to be announcing like tour stops and
ticket sales and signings and all that good stuff.
So if you want to get in on that, go check it out over at
katiesource.com. Well dude, it was a pleasure
recording a podcast with you, and it's been a while.
We did it. We did do it.
And if you're listening to this,thank you so much for listening

(01:03:16):
to this. Yeah, thanks for being here.
It's good to be back. And we'll be dropping new
episodes once a week. Once a week on Thursdays.
Yeah, on Thursday. Morning.
So make sure that you smash thatnotification button.
But yeah, until then, until nextweek, remember to be kind to
yourself. Wait, no, I said it wrong.
Fuck. Remember to eat a snack.

(01:03:38):
Remember to drink some water. Remember to take your meds.
Remember to be kind to yourself.Remember to be kind to others.
And remember that we. Love you.
All right. Well, see you later.
Bye everybody, bye, bye, bye, bye.

(01:04:26):
Music.