April 2, 2024 • 41 mins
In the newest episode of Central Line - the podcast from TallTrees Leadership - Leah sits down with Tim Guest, Chief Executive Officer of the Canadian Nurses Association, to explore the dynamic landscape of nursing in Canada. With over three decades of experience spanning diverse nursing and leadership roles, Tim shares his insights on the evolving expectations and needs within the profession. His journey embodies a commitment to advancing nursing practices and policies through advocacy and nurse-driven, incremental change.
Tim sheds light on the pressing challenges facing nurses today, and he emphasizes the importance of empowering nurses to have a voice at decision-making tables and advocating for a healthier work environment. He envisions a future where nurses play a central role in addressing the healthcare system's systemic issues and maximizing their potential to provide primary care to the public.
Tim's message resonates with optimism and resilience. He assures listeners that change is underway, with governments increasingly recognizing the vital role of nurses and investing in solutions. Join us for an enlightening conversation that celebrates the power of advocacy and the dedication of nurses to serve their communities.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Music.
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Welcome to Central Line, Leadership in Healthcare, the show that shares stories,
experiences, and advice from notable and innovative leaders in healthcare.
Leading in healthcare is incredibly challenging. So if you are looking to learn
firsthand from nurses, physicians, administrators, and other healthcare professionals
in leadership and management roles, this is the podcast for you.
(00:31):
Hosted by Leah Wuchik, leadership development expert, expert,
executive coach, healthcare professional, and president and co-founder of Tall Trees Leadership.
We talk with today's successful healthcare leaders on how they get to where
they are, lessons learned along
the way, and what it takes to thrive as a successful leader in healthcare.
(00:52):
Let's get started with your host, Leah Wuchick.
Tim Guest is the Chief Executive Officer of the Canadian Nurses Association and a registered nurse.
He has a Bachelor of Science in Nursing from the University of Alberta and a
Master of Business Administration in Executive Management with specialization
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in leadership from Royal Roads University.
Tim's more than 30-year nursing career has included direct care,
nursing unit management, health system executive, chief nursing executive,
executive, healthcare consulting, and now CEO.
Tim has worked in rural, urban, and academic organizations.
Tim's program responsibilities during his career have included all aspects of
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acute care and have also included mental health, home care, long-term care, and public health.
Tim has also been an accreditation surveyor with Accreditation Canada for several
years and has also been a board member of the United Nurses of Alberta College
and Association of Registered Nurses of Alberta,
College of Registered Nurses of Nova Scotia, and Canadian Nurses Association.
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Tim was also past president of the Canadian Nurses Association,
ending his term in March of 2022.
Music.
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Welcome to Central Line Leadership and Healthcare. Thank you so much for being here.
I know this has been a long journey and happening.
So I'm really excited to have the opportunity to speak with you.
It's a pleasure to be here. And thank you for the invitation to join you.
And I'm just, I'm looking so forward to the conversation.
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Wonderful. Well, let's dive in. I know our Our listeners would be really interested
in hearing more about your career and yeah, and what you do now and what it's
all about and what makes you tick.
Well, you know, my career has been, it's been an interesting one.
You know, when I think about, you know, what it was like to start nursing back
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at the beginning of the 1990s and as a new graduate, would I have ever even
imagined being where I am now and doing the things I'm doing now?
I think I probably would have laughed at you if you'd have told me that then.
And so, you know, I have been so fortunate.
You know, I started my career at a time when it was difficult to find a full-time
jobs because the provincial governments were trying to balance their budgets
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and there were a lot of reductions and layoffs.
And so it was an interesting time to start nursing.
But, you know, I also had some great opportunities where I was kind of in the
right place at the right time and being willing to take on challenges when maybe
I wasn't feeling that I was the best prepared.
Shared was there was just such great learning.
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And so, you know, I've been a nurse now for, it's hard to believe,
32 years. It's gone by very, very quickly.
I've had the luxury of practicing nursing in two provinces, you know,
starting my career in Alberta.
And I spent about the first 17 years of my career in Alberta.
And then I've been living in Nova Scotia since, you know,
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I worked in direct care in hospitals and then moved into nursing management
and nursing administration and spent about 15 years as a vice president and chief nurse executive,
and then did a little bit of consulting work.
And I was so fortunate to have the opportunity to have an exposure and an experience
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as the CEO of the Canadian Nurses Association and get to practice nursing in
such a fundamentally mentally different way with a focus on health policy and,
you know, spending my time really looking at how we can advance and maximize
the profession of nursing.
And so it's kind of a dream experience and a dream opportunity.
(04:57):
It sounds like your career has kind of led you here.
And I definitely want to hear more about your role as CEO of CNA.
But before we go there, I'm curious, what led you into nursing in the first place?
You know, I've often asked myself that question because when I reflect back,
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when I graduated from high school, I was looking at a number of different things.
In fact, I applied for three different programs when I applied for nursing school.
Well, I applied for the radio and television arts program at the Northern Institute
for Northern Alberta Institute of Technology to work in the news business.
And I applied for a program as a radiation technology, a radiation technologist
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at the Cancer Institute and nursing and nursing is the one that I got in.
And so that's where I went. And, you know, it's kind of interesting,
you know, did I apply for nursing as by accident or was it haphazard?
And I don't think so.
And where that comes from is I guess I had an unfortunate accident as a five-year-old
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where I was a very active outside kid and we lived on a farm at the time.
And my father was burning a brush pile. And at five years old,
you don't really realize that wood only burns for a while and then it doesn't burn anymore.
And I thought the fire was going out. And so I threw the pail of diesel fuel
that my father had sitting there to light it onto the fire and lit myself ablaze.
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And I ended up with severe burns to my right leg and over the next year spent
a significant amount of time in hospital.
And I can remember many experiences, you know, because we lived in a rural area,
my parents were more than 30 miles from the hospital. And so you know,
they weren't there all the time.
And as a five year old, There was a lot of time where I was alone.
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And so I was around the nurses and, and I can remember opportunities where they
let they let me press the foot button to turn the bedpan cleaner on and and some of those things.
And I, and I actually think some of those experiences stuck in my head.
And I was exposed to nurses for a for a significant period of time in in in
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my life. And I think I caught the bug.
Wow what a story and i'm sorry
you went through that as a child and that
injury and it sounds like the nurses
that cared for you were really present and engaged with you and and maybe somehow
subconsciously inspired you you know some of them i can remember vividly you
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know now 50 years later Yeah, that's amazing.
And it's interesting to me, so many of the guests that I have.
Their start to nursing often started when they were children with personal experiences
or memories of nurses either caring for themselves or for family members.
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Or many of the guests have had family members who have also been nurses.
So it's interesting to me to see that clearly the impact that nurses have in
so many people's lives leads them into the profession as well.
Yeah, because I didn't have a family member that was a nurse.
I did not, you know, even an extended family.
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I didn't have any family member that was a nurse or I had, you know,
I had a couple of cousins.
One was a social worker and one was an occupational therapist,
but none that were nurses.
And I was also one of the first men in my extended family to ever go to university.
And so it was, in some ways, I was kind of charting my own path.
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And, you know, I have never regretted for one second the decision to go to nursing school.
Not for one second. That's amazing.
So tell me about what you do now. You know, a lot of people,
when they see the title of CEO, they think bigwig or leader or whatnot.
But what is it exactly that you do?
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Well, you know, like the Canadian Nurse Association, it's not a huge organization.
We are a national professional association representing the nursing profession
from coast to coast to coast.
We advocate on behalf of the nursing profession for advancement to the nursing
profession, for the public health system.
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We advocate to the federal government and others on important health policy issues.
And so my role is varied. You know, there's days that I am a nurse executive.
There's other days where I got my sleeves rolled up with my colleagues and we're
working collectively on health policy issues.
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And there's other days that I do guest lectures in nursing programs.
And so, you know, what I do really varies. I spend a fair amount of time talking
with nurses and ensuring that we have a good understanding of what their work
environments are like and what's important to them.
And then I also have opportunities to meet with elected officials, ministers of health.
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And on occasion, you get the opportunity that it can be anxiety provoking,
but to be a witness at parliamentary committees.
And so it's really varied, and I quite like it.
The variety sounds intriguing. And so I would say, what do you like best?
Do you know, one of the things that I really enjoy is the opportunity to have
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a variety of experiences.
I sometimes get to work on like, you know, helping draft policy documents,
you know, and in one day I could be doing that or one moment of the day I could be doing that.
And then an hour later, I could be having a video conference with the Federal Minister of Health.
And it's nice to have the ability to influence the profession in a variety of
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ways and to still feel engaged and an active participant in the work that we
hope impacts in a positive way nurses practice and ultimately the health of fellow citizens.
I mean, impact for sure is the resounding comment I hear from nurses in all
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different practice areas, all different levels of leadership is this idea of,
you know, creating impact.
And I hear that in the work that you do as well.
And I imagine there's days where things are quite challenging. me.
So I'm also interested in knowing what would you find, what would you say is
the hardest thing about what you do right now?
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I would say you're exactly right. There are days that you feel,
oh my God, this time I spent on that was well worth it.
It is so exciting to see a government decision where they actually took our
advice and included it in how they implemented something.
And then there are other days when, you know, I'll give you an example.
(12:14):
I went to Edmonton and had the opportunity to spend three days with a thousand
nurses at the United Nurses of
Alberta annual meeting and listened to them when they had their open mic,
get up to the microphone and talk about how challenging their work environments
were and to hear some of their experiences.
(12:36):
And they were like soul crushing some of them.
And what I found frustrating was how long we've been advocating for action on
some of that stuff and to see how slow it is to have that action occur is frustrating. Yeah.
Yeah. And I appreciate you sharing that.
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One of the things I hear a lot from nurses because I coach nurses and nurse
leaders is just that how tough the job is.
And to your point of some of those stories being very soul crushing,
the frustration is real and it's palpable.
So when you think the work of CNA, what would you say are the priorities right now?
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So obviously, because of the worldwide crisis with respect to the nursing shortage,
our top priority right now is doing anything we can to influence and impact
the health human resource shortage that we're experiencing across Canada.
You know, the reality of it is it's having such a profound impact on the day-to-day
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work lives of nurses that we have to act to do something because many of the
solutions aren't overnight.
And so the longer we wait to get things underway, the longer this is going to take.
And, you know, often what I see is I see governments doing exactly what we told
them not to 20 months ago. And
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that was focusing all their attention on international recruitment. Yeah.
When there's a global shortage, and some of the countries that we are taking
nurses from have less per capita than we do.
Right. And we have to be ethical members of the globe.
And, you know, Canada is a rich country. We have the capability to grow our
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own domestic supply if we invested in it properly and made better decisions.
And and so we need to be a responsible global
citizen and and begin to put
in place the infrastructure and invest to be able to grow our own that said
we are also a country that many people from around the world want to come to
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and and we as an organization are fully supportive of a nurse that lives anywhere
in the world that wants to better their life and move to Canada that that they should be able to,
and that the processes should be not cumbersome.
They shouldn't be overwhelming and so extensive, but they can't get through
them. And so there needs to be a balance.
But the priority is dealing with the work environment issues that are pushing
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the nursing profession to the brink that is causing them to reduce their hours,
go casual, quit, quit the profession.
You know, they tell us that the primary issue that's driving them out is work
environment, it's overtime,
it's lack of supports, it's lack of respect, it's not feeling valued,
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it's the mandatory overtime, it's working short, it's the unreasonable work
assignments and workload, it's all of those things.
At first glance, and maybe at second and third glance as well,
it seems like the problem is so huge.
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And I hear a lot of discouraged feelings about where do we even start?
How do we begin to tackle this?
So when somebody comes to you and says, you know, what's our first step?
What would you say? I would say that I would start with the things that I think
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I would call easy, and it's how we interact,
how we show up to the table, respecting the workforce,
engaging them, listening, giving them a voice, enabling them to participate
in the decision-making process.
You know, nurses have ideas. They have solutions.
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They just don't feel like they have the ability to participate in putting them into place.
So it's simple things like that. It's also looking at the work environment and
where you can make change to improve some of those things, do it.
You know, one of the big ones that nurses tell us is they want flexibility in their scheduling.
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Many provinces have self-scheduling mechanisms and collective agreements.
And so, you know, if it's working somewhere and there's a really good model, then let's expand on it.
Let's give nurses more autonomy with how they manage their schedule so that
it doesn't completely take over their life.
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They want to have home lives too. And this is a even bigger issue for the younger
generation that have fundamentally different values.
And they're not going to put up with work environments that don't give them balance.
They'll walk. We've seen it, you know, and their expectations are that their
work environments meet their needs or they go find one that does. Yes.
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I appreciate that you bring up the changing values or the different values maybe
that some of the younger generations bring forward and the idea of having balance between work and home.
And I mean, that's something I'm hearing echoed over and over and over.
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And the other thing I just want to highlight is what you were saying about having
voices is being heard and getting nurses at the table.
A couple of episodes ago, I interviewed Senator Patterson, and she said very
similar things in that nurses need a voice.
They have a voice, and it needs to be louder, and it needs to be at the right tables.
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Tables and one of the things that
was brought forward was that maybe historically
that hasn't been the case and that nurses have felt that maybe they don't belong
at the table i'm curious to hear your thoughts on that and if you agree with
that kind of historical perspective what do you think has contributed to that?
(19:08):
Well, you know, I agree with the senator that nurses need to be at the table
and they need to be at senior level decision making tables as well.
Yeah, it's not just about bringing a group of nurses into a meeting and hearing
them out and and and then agreeing to take their ideas and implement them.
It's also about having the nursing perspective at senior your leadership tables
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and influencing health system decisions.
You know, we advocated for the chief nurse to be reinstated at the federal level,
and certainly we're glad that many provinces have them, but we'd like to see
every province and territory have a chief nurse within the provincial health ministries.
I think that nurses have always wanted to have a voice, and I think that nurses
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have always felt that they had great ideas and had a voice.
But I think because nursing is predominantly a female-dominated profession,
that they were minimized, they were undervalued, and they were sidelined.
And I think that is the issue more than the fact that nurses didn't feel they could participate.
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Yeah, I can appreciate that perspective and the idea that because it is a female-dominated profession,
there has been or likely has been some minimization of the voices and the roles
even of nurses and the importance,
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critical, key importance of nurses in health care.
And the value of the contribution and the value of what they can bring to the
table for solutions. Yeah.
I think there's also an undervaluing of the knowledge and skill that nurses bring.
Yeah. Agreed. And so what would you recommend to someone who wants to get out
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there and maybe step up in a leadership capacity and start to raise their voice
around the issues that are facing nurses?
What do they need to do to feel confident in that? You know,
this is something that I get asked when I speak to fourth year nursing classes.
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Classes and often this is what i tell them is it's
how you show up every day matters with
how you demonstrate your leadership and how you are
perceived as a leader and when you
want to influence change there are
multiple ways of doing it and it can be at varying levels not everyone has the
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level of confidence that they could run for the board of an association like
cna or put put their name forward to sit on a regulatory committee or to run
for office and be a local executive with a union.
Not everyone has the confidence to do that. And not everyone actually has the interest in doing that.
You can be a leader and make a huge impact even at the unit level where you
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work, unit level, the department level.
And one of the things I suggest to students is find something you're passionate
about, educate yourself, know everything about it.
And when you know that there's an issue, go and meet with the decision maker,
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go meet with your manager, go meet with the chief nurse executive,
whoever it is, and take a solution to the problem.
That's leader activity. And it could be simple. It could be minor.
It could be a policy that you've got in your workplace that's old,
that needs to be updated.
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It could be all kinds of things. Every one of those activities will make a difference.
The 466,000 of us, if we all did that, could you imagine the impact that would have?
It would be monumental. It would be mind-boggling.
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I love that you're talking about incremental changes and for everyone to find
that thing that they are passionate about and that idea of bringing a solution
to the table, bringing a solution to the problem.
Because what I hear so often is the solutions are there. It's just a matter of making it happen.
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Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious, Tim, in your career, did you always know you were going to be a leader?
Do you know? No, because I actually would never have defined myself that way.
You know, it was interesting because I was in student council in high school
and I was involved in student government in nursing school, but I didn't necessarily
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see that as being a leader.
And then, you know, when I graduated from nursing school, I initially was involved
with the nursing union locally.
And, you know, I held a secretary, vice president and president roles at the local level.
And, you know, I had an opportunity to be on the provincial board.
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And then I submitted my name to participate on a regulatory committee at the
college and ran for the board of the college in two provinces.
And those were just things that I thought would enable me to participate in my profession more.
I wanted to participate in the profession and I wanted to be able to impact change.
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But I didn't necessarily see all of those things as being a leader.
You know, I think when I reflect back on them now, maybe they were,
I viewed them as opportunities to learn and grow more than I was being a leader.
But I think they all shaped who I am today, for sure. Mm hmm.
It's clear that that desire to learn and grow led to a lot of involvement through
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your career, even, you know, as a student all the way up until now.
And one of the questions I hear a lot around leadership and for nurses is if I want to do that,
if I want to maybe step into a
formal leadership role or a more senior leadership role, how do I do that?
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What do I need to learn to do that? What would you recommend? Yes.
You know, interesting question. And I would say that the pathway to moving into
formal leadership or formal management sorts of roles,
I think, can take many paths or it can take there could be many forks in the
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road that could get you to that destination. nation.
And so some of what I suggest to people is, you know, one is education and increasing
the tools in your toolbox for skills and knowledge is one way.
You know, one is also being engaged, participate in the organization you work.
You know, for me, being involved in the union certainly gave me skills.
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It gave me negotiation skills.
It gave me skills to work with groups, to lead meetings, to interact with other
individuals that you don't necessarily have the same perspective on and reach consensus.
And all those are valuable skills when you go into a role like management.
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And I think any of those experiences or any of those things that you can expose
you to yourself to will make a difference.
It's also having a conversation with your manager about, you know,
know, this is kind of some of my interest in my career.
Is there anything that you can do to help my progression? You know,
is there anything that you can involve me in or a project that I might be able
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to help with that'll give me some exposure so that I could prepare myself to be you?
You know, one of the first steps is letting someone who has the ability to mentor
and support you know that that's what your interest is. Yeah.
It can be a huge step in getting there.
You know, They can really help to open the doors by exposing you to different
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things that will help you fill that toolbox up.
Yeah, I really love what you're saying around declaring it and declaring it
to someone who can support you in that and provide that mentorship or ideas
for how to get involved and how to,
you know, stretch yourself in ways that you haven't been stretched before.
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Well, and I think any time that we work in a leadership role,
and we have people who report to us, where we manage people,
I fundamentally believe as a nursing leader that we have an accountability to
understand the goals and aspirations of the individuals that work with us,
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and that we have an obligation to help them get there.
I don't view it in any way as a negative when an employee comes up to me and
says, you know, in five years, I want to do this.
And that, whatever this is, might mean that they won't stay in the role they're
in. That's not a negative.
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And part of it is it's investing in them. It's not that as long as they stay
in the organization, it's ideal that they stay in the organization as they grow. grow.
But if you don't invest in these individuals, and you don't support them, they leave faster.
You know, I think if you support an individual and say, you know,
I'll help you get there. Can you give me this much time?
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And, you know, that person might end up staying in that role for an extra 18 months,
five years, and they possibly could have been gone in six months,
if they didn't think they had any support to help them their career grow,
or that there was is no support for their vision for where they'd like their career to go.
Absolutely. Yeah. And I, you know, the other piece that I hear in what you just
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said is that it's not a us versus them mentality in that, oh,
if I develop this person, they'll go to another organization.
It's about growing nursing as a profession and that if we grow individuals,
we grow the profession and strengthen the profession. Yeah.
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We all had to have help along the way. Yeah. And I think we have an accountability to give back. Yeah.
What would you see as the future for nursing in Canada?
You know, I'm not a pessimist and I'm not completely an optimist.
I believe I'm a realist, but I actually think there is a lot of potential for
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the nursing profession going forward.
And this is why, for many, many years, when the public are surveyed about the
professions they trust most, nursing is always in the top three.
CNA has surveyed members of the public in the past, and a couple of things the
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public have told us, we trust you significantly.
But that does not come without expectations. expectations
they expect us to speak out for
them they expect us to advocate for
them and they expect us to call out issues
in the health system when we see them and so
the health system is in a crisis
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the public have significant access issues right now and we we know that there
are programs around the world where nurses are playing a much larger role in
providing care to the public.
Israel, as an example, nurses play a significant role in the delivery of primary care.
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United Kingdom, there are nurse-led clinics that the public can go to for primary care.
Nurse prescribing is significantly more utilized in the United Kingdom and has
been for 20 years. Oh, wow.
We are underutilizing the capacity of the nursing profession in this country,
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and it is shameful that we are.
And I think there's opportunities. There's opportunities for nurses to play
a much larger role in primary care.
And I'm not talking just nurse practitioners. I believe nurse practitioners can play a massive role.
In many provinces, they're not being fully utilized, and they need to be more utilized.
I'm really excited about what Alberta's done to enable nurse practitioners to
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play a more fundamental role in primary care, and I hope more follow suit.
But I think registered nurses and licensed practical nurses and registered psychiatric
nurses can play a much larger role if some of the barriers that are negatively
impacting their ability to fully participate and work to their scope were lifted up.
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And one of them are, let's be truthful, it's historical funding mechanisms that
were designed for a system that had a very different makeup and very different
practice when they were designed.
They need to be modernized. Yeah.
Yeah, they need to be modernized. And I think, you know, the need of the public is different now.
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And our systems have not kept up with that.
You are so right.
I'm so interested in what you were saying about the relationship between the
public and nurses and recognizing that it is this trusted profession.
And as you said, it comes with expectations as well.
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And I think it's a really interesting dynamic between nurses, the public,
their patients, and that role of advocacy that nurses have on behalf of the public.
What I'm curious about then is how do we start to change some of these systems
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that have been in place for, it feels like eons,
and have not kept up with the changing expectations and needs of the people we serve?
You know, I think we need to have a multifocal approach to how we do that.
And I think one of them is we need to become more united in our advocacy efforts.
(33:58):
You know, as the predominant workforce in the health system in this country,
when we speak together on issues, we have a significant impact.
And we've seen that actually through our advocacy work during the pandemic,
where the Canadian nurses are the Canadian Federation of Nursing Unions and
CNA, when we advocate together on issues,
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you know, those things are heard, and they're taken note of.
When we advocate in partnership with the Canadian Medical Association,
government pays attention to that.
And so I think we need to leverage those things. And the other thing I think
it is, is we need to help nurses participate.
We did a survey of nurses back in 2022.
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And it was really, we were trying to get nurses input in establishing our policy
and advocacy priorities for the organization.
And one of the things that the nurses told us is
they want to participate in advocacy activities
but they don't all feel the same
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or they don't all have the same level of confidence and so
as an example if we ask them okay we're going to have a campaign where we want
you to letters to their mps they didn't all feel confident to do that because
they didn't all feel confident i could write that letter and i could feel like
i knew the content and i knew know how to say it and what to say and what to ask for.
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But they said to us, if there's a system that you can give me the template.
And then I'll participate, I'll send it. And so we did.
We use a technology that when we do a letter writing campaign,
a nurse or even a member of the public can participate in the campaign.
But our last one, we had 3,400 submissions, which was amazing.
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And the nurse clicks the link, they put in their name, they put in their postal
code, and they put in their email address.
And when they do that, the letter pops up so they can see what's being sent
on their their behalf, they're able to make edits to it.
So say, for example, if they know their member of parliament,
or they know their member of the legislative assembly, they can kind of customize
(36:06):
it and make it more personal, they can leave it as it is.
And it'll send it automatically to their MP or their their MLA.
And and it adds their voice to an important advocacy activity.
Yeah. And so I think, you know, that's one of the ways that that nurses can participate.
You know, it's also So voting, you know, when there's an election,
(36:29):
go talk to the candidates.
CNA as an organization, we put out an election brief that nurses can have in
their hand when they go and talk to members of parliament that are running for
re-election or individuals that are running against them and,
you know, talk to them about issues that are important to nursing, get their position,
(36:50):
educate them, you know, because we can influence decisions long after if we
educate them at the time they're running and even better if they promise something.
What comes up for me as you share all of that is the idea of supporting people to advocate,
giving them the tools, because as you said, people are at different places and
(37:12):
feel differently with confidence levels and knowing the content and all that,
but giving them the tools so that they can advocate in whatever way,
shape, or form that feels right for them.
Yeah. And I think the other thing that I'd say is that advocacy looks different.
And, you know, there's all kinds of different advocacy. There's little A advocacy and there's big A.
(37:35):
And I think nurses advocate all the time, you know, for their patient,
for, you know, their work environments, for themselves.
I don't know if they recognize it all the time, but it's fundamentally part
of what we do as a profession.
I'm glad you brought that forward and the difference between the big A and the
(37:56):
little a and recognizing that advocacy really is baked into what nurses do every day.
Oh, it is. It could be as simple as advocating for funding for clothes for an
individual that's With getting discharged, it doesn't have the means to get...
(38:16):
A pair of shoes or a pair of pants to get discharged home or for access to resources
for their medication, or, you know, it could even be, you know,
advocating for access to service. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
And that's so powerful. Just those things that people do on a daily basis that
maybe are necessarily recognized or,
(38:40):
or maybe we need to spend more time as individuals thinking about that important
advocacy that we do do on a daily basis. That is so important.
Well, because we might think that that effort or that advocacy that we did was
not that significant, but it could change the trajectory of that patient's life forever.
(39:04):
And it might be huge for them.
Yeah, a hundred percent. Tim, this has been wonderful. And I know there's so
much more to say about this.
But in closing for today, what I'm curious about is given the crisis in healthcare
and the workloads and the struggles that nurses feel,
(39:28):
what would be your words of encouragement for them?
I would say that we are here,
we are listening, we want to help, that have them tell us their stories so that
we can continue to support them, that I believe that we will get through this.
(39:48):
I've certainly seen that governments are hearing they're starting to make decisions,
they're starting to invest, and we're starting to see some movement on some of these solutions.
It's just not fast enough, but I believe we'll get there.
And the other thing I would say is to anyone that is thinking of the nursing
(40:10):
profession that now might be afraid because I'm hearing that there are nursing
programs around the country that are not having their seats filled and that
individuals aren't applying for nursing anymore. more. This is an amazing career.
It can be so rewarding.
And the other thing that I would add is that we need to support each other and
(40:31):
that we need to back each other and we need to mentor each other.
And I think it'll make a difference.
Well said. Thank you, Tim, so much for your time today. My pleasure.
Thanks so much for joining us today at Central Line Leadership in Healthcare. care.
Also, if you liked what you heard, please head on over to Apple Podcasts to
(40:54):
leave us a review. Be sure to subscribe so that you never miss an episode.
Also, if you'd like to learn more about our host, Leah Woodchick,
check out talltreesleadership.com.
Music.
(00:07):
Welcome to Central Line, Leadership in Healthcare, the show that shares stories,
experiences, and advice from notable and innovative leaders in healthcare.
Leading in healthcare is incredibly challenging. So if you are looking to learn
firsthand from nurses, physicians, administrators, and other healthcare professionals
in leadership and management roles, this is the podcast for you.
(00:31):
Hosted by Leah Wuchik, leadership development expert, expert,
executive coach, healthcare professional, and president and co-founder of Tall Trees Leadership.
We talk with today's successful healthcare leaders on how they get to where
they are, lessons learned along
the way, and what it takes to thrive as a successful leader in healthcare.
(00:52):
Let's get started with your host, Leah Wuchick.
Tim Guest is the Chief Executive Officer of the Canadian Nurses Association and a registered nurse.
He has a Bachelor of Science in Nursing from the University of Alberta and a
Master of Business Administration in Executive Management with specialization
(01:13):
in leadership from Royal Roads University.
Tim's more than 30-year nursing career has included direct care,
nursing unit management, health system executive, chief nursing executive,
executive, healthcare consulting, and now CEO.
Tim has worked in rural, urban, and academic organizations.
Tim's program responsibilities during his career have included all aspects of
(01:37):
acute care and have also included mental health, home care, long-term care, and public health.
Tim has also been an accreditation surveyor with Accreditation Canada for several
years and has also been a board member of the United Nurses of Alberta College
and Association of Registered Nurses of Alberta,
College of Registered Nurses of Nova Scotia, and Canadian Nurses Association.
(02:00):
Tim was also past president of the Canadian Nurses Association,
ending his term in March of 2022.
Music.
(02:24):
Welcome to Central Line Leadership and Healthcare. Thank you so much for being here.
I know this has been a long journey and happening.
So I'm really excited to have the opportunity to speak with you.
It's a pleasure to be here. And thank you for the invitation to join you.
And I'm just, I'm looking so forward to the conversation.
(02:45):
Wonderful. Well, let's dive in. I know our Our listeners would be really interested
in hearing more about your career and yeah, and what you do now and what it's
all about and what makes you tick.
Well, you know, my career has been, it's been an interesting one.
You know, when I think about, you know, what it was like to start nursing back
(03:06):
at the beginning of the 1990s and as a new graduate, would I have ever even
imagined being where I am now and doing the things I'm doing now?
I think I probably would have laughed at you if you'd have told me that then.
And so, you know, I have been so fortunate.
You know, I started my career at a time when it was difficult to find a full-time
jobs because the provincial governments were trying to balance their budgets
(03:32):
and there were a lot of reductions and layoffs.
And so it was an interesting time to start nursing.
But, you know, I also had some great opportunities where I was kind of in the
right place at the right time and being willing to take on challenges when maybe
I wasn't feeling that I was the best prepared.
Shared was there was just such great learning.
(03:55):
And so, you know, I've been a nurse now for, it's hard to believe,
32 years. It's gone by very, very quickly.
I've had the luxury of practicing nursing in two provinces, you know,
starting my career in Alberta.
And I spent about the first 17 years of my career in Alberta.
And then I've been living in Nova Scotia since, you know,
(04:15):
I worked in direct care in hospitals and then moved into nursing management
and nursing administration and spent about 15 years as a vice president and chief nurse executive,
and then did a little bit of consulting work.
And I was so fortunate to have the opportunity to have an exposure and an experience
(04:36):
as the CEO of the Canadian Nurses Association and get to practice nursing in
such a fundamentally mentally different way with a focus on health policy and,
you know, spending my time really looking at how we can advance and maximize
the profession of nursing.
And so it's kind of a dream experience and a dream opportunity.
(04:57):
It sounds like your career has kind of led you here.
And I definitely want to hear more about your role as CEO of CNA.
But before we go there, I'm curious, what led you into nursing in the first place?
You know, I've often asked myself that question because when I reflect back,
(05:17):
when I graduated from high school, I was looking at a number of different things.
In fact, I applied for three different programs when I applied for nursing school.
Well, I applied for the radio and television arts program at the Northern Institute
for Northern Alberta Institute of Technology to work in the news business.
And I applied for a program as a radiation technology, a radiation technologist
(05:43):
at the Cancer Institute and nursing and nursing is the one that I got in.
And so that's where I went. And, you know, it's kind of interesting,
you know, did I apply for nursing as by accident or was it haphazard?
And I don't think so.
And where that comes from is I guess I had an unfortunate accident as a five-year-old
(06:06):
where I was a very active outside kid and we lived on a farm at the time.
And my father was burning a brush pile. And at five years old,
you don't really realize that wood only burns for a while and then it doesn't burn anymore.
And I thought the fire was going out. And so I threw the pail of diesel fuel
that my father had sitting there to light it onto the fire and lit myself ablaze.
(06:31):
And I ended up with severe burns to my right leg and over the next year spent
a significant amount of time in hospital.
And I can remember many experiences, you know, because we lived in a rural area,
my parents were more than 30 miles from the hospital. And so you know,
they weren't there all the time.
And as a five year old, There was a lot of time where I was alone.
(06:53):
And so I was around the nurses and, and I can remember opportunities where they
let they let me press the foot button to turn the bedpan cleaner on and and some of those things.
And I, and I actually think some of those experiences stuck in my head.
And I was exposed to nurses for a for a significant period of time in in in
(07:15):
my life. And I think I caught the bug.
Wow what a story and i'm sorry
you went through that as a child and that
injury and it sounds like the nurses
that cared for you were really present and engaged with you and and maybe somehow
subconsciously inspired you you know some of them i can remember vividly you
(07:41):
know now 50 years later Yeah, that's amazing.
And it's interesting to me, so many of the guests that I have.
Their start to nursing often started when they were children with personal experiences
or memories of nurses either caring for themselves or for family members.
(08:04):
Or many of the guests have had family members who have also been nurses.
So it's interesting to me to see that clearly the impact that nurses have in
so many people's lives leads them into the profession as well.
Yeah, because I didn't have a family member that was a nurse.
I did not, you know, even an extended family.
(08:27):
I didn't have any family member that was a nurse or I had, you know,
I had a couple of cousins.
One was a social worker and one was an occupational therapist,
but none that were nurses.
And I was also one of the first men in my extended family to ever go to university.
And so it was, in some ways, I was kind of charting my own path.
(08:48):
And, you know, I have never regretted for one second the decision to go to nursing school.
Not for one second. That's amazing.
So tell me about what you do now. You know, a lot of people,
when they see the title of CEO, they think bigwig or leader or whatnot.
But what is it exactly that you do?
(09:10):
Well, you know, like the Canadian Nurse Association, it's not a huge organization.
We are a national professional association representing the nursing profession
from coast to coast to coast.
We advocate on behalf of the nursing profession for advancement to the nursing
profession, for the public health system.
(09:33):
We advocate to the federal government and others on important health policy issues.
And so my role is varied. You know, there's days that I am a nurse executive.
There's other days where I got my sleeves rolled up with my colleagues and we're
working collectively on health policy issues.
(09:55):
And there's other days that I do guest lectures in nursing programs.
And so, you know, what I do really varies. I spend a fair amount of time talking
with nurses and ensuring that we have a good understanding of what their work
environments are like and what's important to them.
And then I also have opportunities to meet with elected officials, ministers of health.
(10:17):
And on occasion, you get the opportunity that it can be anxiety provoking,
but to be a witness at parliamentary committees.
And so it's really varied, and I quite like it.
The variety sounds intriguing. And so I would say, what do you like best?
Do you know, one of the things that I really enjoy is the opportunity to have
(10:41):
a variety of experiences.
I sometimes get to work on like, you know, helping draft policy documents,
you know, and in one day I could be doing that or one moment of the day I could be doing that.
And then an hour later, I could be having a video conference with the Federal Minister of Health.
And it's nice to have the ability to influence the profession in a variety of
(11:06):
ways and to still feel engaged and an active participant in the work that we
hope impacts in a positive way nurses practice and ultimately the health of fellow citizens.
I mean, impact for sure is the resounding comment I hear from nurses in all
(11:30):
different practice areas, all different levels of leadership is this idea of,
you know, creating impact.
And I hear that in the work that you do as well.
And I imagine there's days where things are quite challenging. me.
So I'm also interested in knowing what would you find, what would you say is
the hardest thing about what you do right now?
(11:52):
I would say you're exactly right. There are days that you feel,
oh my God, this time I spent on that was well worth it.
It is so exciting to see a government decision where they actually took our
advice and included it in how they implemented something.
And then there are other days when, you know, I'll give you an example.
(12:14):
I went to Edmonton and had the opportunity to spend three days with a thousand
nurses at the United Nurses of
Alberta annual meeting and listened to them when they had their open mic,
get up to the microphone and talk about how challenging their work environments
were and to hear some of their experiences.
(12:36):
And they were like soul crushing some of them.
And what I found frustrating was how long we've been advocating for action on
some of that stuff and to see how slow it is to have that action occur is frustrating. Yeah.
Yeah. And I appreciate you sharing that.
(12:58):
One of the things I hear a lot from nurses because I coach nurses and nurse
leaders is just that how tough the job is.
And to your point of some of those stories being very soul crushing,
the frustration is real and it's palpable.
So when you think the work of CNA, what would you say are the priorities right now?
(13:24):
So obviously, because of the worldwide crisis with respect to the nursing shortage,
our top priority right now is doing anything we can to influence and impact
the health human resource shortage that we're experiencing across Canada.
You know, the reality of it is it's having such a profound impact on the day-to-day
(13:50):
work lives of nurses that we have to act to do something because many of the
solutions aren't overnight.
And so the longer we wait to get things underway, the longer this is going to take.
And, you know, often what I see is I see governments doing exactly what we told
them not to 20 months ago. And
(14:12):
that was focusing all their attention on international recruitment. Yeah.
When there's a global shortage, and some of the countries that we are taking
nurses from have less per capita than we do.
Right. And we have to be ethical members of the globe.
And, you know, Canada is a rich country. We have the capability to grow our
(14:34):
own domestic supply if we invested in it properly and made better decisions.
And and so we need to be a responsible global
citizen and and begin to put
in place the infrastructure and invest to be able to grow our own that said
we are also a country that many people from around the world want to come to
(14:56):
and and we as an organization are fully supportive of a nurse that lives anywhere
in the world that wants to better their life and move to Canada that that they should be able to,
and that the processes should be not cumbersome.
They shouldn't be overwhelming and so extensive, but they can't get through
them. And so there needs to be a balance.
But the priority is dealing with the work environment issues that are pushing
(15:21):
the nursing profession to the brink that is causing them to reduce their hours,
go casual, quit, quit the profession.
You know, they tell us that the primary issue that's driving them out is work
environment, it's overtime,
it's lack of supports, it's lack of respect, it's not feeling valued,
(15:43):
it's the mandatory overtime, it's working short, it's the unreasonable work
assignments and workload, it's all of those things.
At first glance, and maybe at second and third glance as well,
it seems like the problem is so huge.
(16:04):
And I hear a lot of discouraged feelings about where do we even start?
How do we begin to tackle this?
So when somebody comes to you and says, you know, what's our first step?
What would you say? I would say that I would start with the things that I think
(16:26):
I would call easy, and it's how we interact,
how we show up to the table, respecting the workforce,
engaging them, listening, giving them a voice, enabling them to participate
in the decision-making process.
You know, nurses have ideas. They have solutions.
(16:48):
They just don't feel like they have the ability to participate in putting them into place.
So it's simple things like that. It's also looking at the work environment and
where you can make change to improve some of those things, do it.
You know, one of the big ones that nurses tell us is they want flexibility in their scheduling.
(17:11):
Many provinces have self-scheduling mechanisms and collective agreements.
And so, you know, if it's working somewhere and there's a really good model, then let's expand on it.
Let's give nurses more autonomy with how they manage their schedule so that
it doesn't completely take over their life.
(17:31):
They want to have home lives too. And this is a even bigger issue for the younger
generation that have fundamentally different values.
And they're not going to put up with work environments that don't give them balance.
They'll walk. We've seen it, you know, and their expectations are that their
work environments meet their needs or they go find one that does. Yes.
(17:56):
I appreciate that you bring up the changing values or the different values maybe
that some of the younger generations bring forward and the idea of having balance between work and home.
And I mean, that's something I'm hearing echoed over and over and over.
(18:18):
And the other thing I just want to highlight is what you were saying about having
voices is being heard and getting nurses at the table.
A couple of episodes ago, I interviewed Senator Patterson, and she said very
similar things in that nurses need a voice.
They have a voice, and it needs to be louder, and it needs to be at the right tables.
(18:44):
Tables and one of the things that
was brought forward was that maybe historically
that hasn't been the case and that nurses have felt that maybe they don't belong
at the table i'm curious to hear your thoughts on that and if you agree with
that kind of historical perspective what do you think has contributed to that?
(19:08):
Well, you know, I agree with the senator that nurses need to be at the table
and they need to be at senior level decision making tables as well.
Yeah, it's not just about bringing a group of nurses into a meeting and hearing
them out and and and then agreeing to take their ideas and implement them.
It's also about having the nursing perspective at senior your leadership tables
(19:32):
and influencing health system decisions.
You know, we advocated for the chief nurse to be reinstated at the federal level,
and certainly we're glad that many provinces have them, but we'd like to see
every province and territory have a chief nurse within the provincial health ministries.
I think that nurses have always wanted to have a voice, and I think that nurses
(19:56):
have always felt that they had great ideas and had a voice.
But I think because nursing is predominantly a female-dominated profession,
that they were minimized, they were undervalued, and they were sidelined.
And I think that is the issue more than the fact that nurses didn't feel they could participate.
(20:20):
Yeah, I can appreciate that perspective and the idea that because it is a female-dominated profession,
there has been or likely has been some minimization of the voices and the roles
even of nurses and the importance,
(20:41):
critical, key importance of nurses in health care.
And the value of the contribution and the value of what they can bring to the
table for solutions. Yeah.
I think there's also an undervaluing of the knowledge and skill that nurses bring.
Yeah. Agreed. And so what would you recommend to someone who wants to get out
(21:08):
there and maybe step up in a leadership capacity and start to raise their voice
around the issues that are facing nurses?
What do they need to do to feel confident in that? You know,
this is something that I get asked when I speak to fourth year nursing classes.
(21:28):
Classes and often this is what i tell them is it's
how you show up every day matters with
how you demonstrate your leadership and how you are
perceived as a leader and when you
want to influence change there are
multiple ways of doing it and it can be at varying levels not everyone has the
(21:49):
level of confidence that they could run for the board of an association like
cna or put put their name forward to sit on a regulatory committee or to run
for office and be a local executive with a union.
Not everyone has the confidence to do that. And not everyone actually has the interest in doing that.
You can be a leader and make a huge impact even at the unit level where you
(22:14):
work, unit level, the department level.
And one of the things I suggest to students is find something you're passionate
about, educate yourself, know everything about it.
And when you know that there's an issue, go and meet with the decision maker,
(22:35):
go meet with your manager, go meet with the chief nurse executive,
whoever it is, and take a solution to the problem.
That's leader activity. And it could be simple. It could be minor.
It could be a policy that you've got in your workplace that's old,
that needs to be updated.
(22:56):
It could be all kinds of things. Every one of those activities will make a difference.
The 466,000 of us, if we all did that, could you imagine the impact that would have?
It would be monumental. It would be mind-boggling.
(23:16):
I love that you're talking about incremental changes and for everyone to find
that thing that they are passionate about and that idea of bringing a solution
to the table, bringing a solution to the problem.
Because what I hear so often is the solutions are there. It's just a matter of making it happen.
(23:42):
Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious, Tim, in your career, did you always know you were going to be a leader?
Do you know? No, because I actually would never have defined myself that way.
You know, it was interesting because I was in student council in high school
and I was involved in student government in nursing school, but I didn't necessarily
(24:06):
see that as being a leader.
And then, you know, when I graduated from nursing school, I initially was involved
with the nursing union locally.
And, you know, I held a secretary, vice president and president roles at the local level.
And, you know, I had an opportunity to be on the provincial board.
(24:27):
And then I submitted my name to participate on a regulatory committee at the
college and ran for the board of the college in two provinces.
And those were just things that I thought would enable me to participate in my profession more.
I wanted to participate in the profession and I wanted to be able to impact change.
(24:53):
But I didn't necessarily see all of those things as being a leader.
You know, I think when I reflect back on them now, maybe they were,
I viewed them as opportunities to learn and grow more than I was being a leader.
But I think they all shaped who I am today, for sure. Mm hmm.
It's clear that that desire to learn and grow led to a lot of involvement through
(25:18):
your career, even, you know, as a student all the way up until now.
And one of the questions I hear a lot around leadership and for nurses is if I want to do that,
if I want to maybe step into a
formal leadership role or a more senior leadership role, how do I do that?
(25:42):
What do I need to learn to do that? What would you recommend? Yes.
You know, interesting question. And I would say that the pathway to moving into
formal leadership or formal management sorts of roles,
I think, can take many paths or it can take there could be many forks in the
(26:04):
road that could get you to that destination. nation.
And so some of what I suggest to people is, you know, one is education and increasing
the tools in your toolbox for skills and knowledge is one way.
You know, one is also being engaged, participate in the organization you work.
You know, for me, being involved in the union certainly gave me skills.
(26:27):
It gave me negotiation skills.
It gave me skills to work with groups, to lead meetings, to interact with other
individuals that you don't necessarily have the same perspective on and reach consensus.
And all those are valuable skills when you go into a role like management.
(26:48):
And I think any of those experiences or any of those things that you can expose
you to yourself to will make a difference.
It's also having a conversation with your manager about, you know,
know, this is kind of some of my interest in my career.
Is there anything that you can do to help my progression? You know,
is there anything that you can involve me in or a project that I might be able
(27:10):
to help with that'll give me some exposure so that I could prepare myself to be you?
You know, one of the first steps is letting someone who has the ability to mentor
and support you know that that's what your interest is. Yeah.
It can be a huge step in getting there.
You know, They can really help to open the doors by exposing you to different
(27:33):
things that will help you fill that toolbox up.
Yeah, I really love what you're saying around declaring it and declaring it
to someone who can support you in that and provide that mentorship or ideas
for how to get involved and how to,
you know, stretch yourself in ways that you haven't been stretched before.
(27:54):
Well, and I think any time that we work in a leadership role,
and we have people who report to us, where we manage people,
I fundamentally believe as a nursing leader that we have an accountability to
understand the goals and aspirations of the individuals that work with us,
(28:17):
and that we have an obligation to help them get there.
I don't view it in any way as a negative when an employee comes up to me and
says, you know, in five years, I want to do this.
And that, whatever this is, might mean that they won't stay in the role they're
in. That's not a negative.
(28:40):
And part of it is it's investing in them. It's not that as long as they stay
in the organization, it's ideal that they stay in the organization as they grow. grow.
But if you don't invest in these individuals, and you don't support them, they leave faster.
You know, I think if you support an individual and say, you know,
I'll help you get there. Can you give me this much time?
(29:02):
And, you know, that person might end up staying in that role for an extra 18 months,
five years, and they possibly could have been gone in six months,
if they didn't think they had any support to help them their career grow,
or that there was is no support for their vision for where they'd like their career to go.
Absolutely. Yeah. And I, you know, the other piece that I hear in what you just
(29:24):
said is that it's not a us versus them mentality in that, oh,
if I develop this person, they'll go to another organization.
It's about growing nursing as a profession and that if we grow individuals,
we grow the profession and strengthen the profession. Yeah.
(29:44):
We all had to have help along the way. Yeah. And I think we have an accountability to give back. Yeah.
What would you see as the future for nursing in Canada?
You know, I'm not a pessimist and I'm not completely an optimist.
I believe I'm a realist, but I actually think there is a lot of potential for
(30:06):
the nursing profession going forward.
And this is why, for many, many years, when the public are surveyed about the
professions they trust most, nursing is always in the top three.
CNA has surveyed members of the public in the past, and a couple of things the
(30:28):
public have told us, we trust you significantly.
But that does not come without expectations. expectations
they expect us to speak out for
them they expect us to advocate for
them and they expect us to call out issues
in the health system when we see them and so
the health system is in a crisis
(30:50):
the public have significant access issues right now and we we know that there
are programs around the world where nurses are playing a much larger role in
providing care to the public.
Israel, as an example, nurses play a significant role in the delivery of primary care.
(31:17):
United Kingdom, there are nurse-led clinics that the public can go to for primary care.
Nurse prescribing is significantly more utilized in the United Kingdom and has
been for 20 years. Oh, wow.
We are underutilizing the capacity of the nursing profession in this country,
(31:39):
and it is shameful that we are.
And I think there's opportunities. There's opportunities for nurses to play
a much larger role in primary care.
And I'm not talking just nurse practitioners. I believe nurse practitioners can play a massive role.
In many provinces, they're not being fully utilized, and they need to be more utilized.
I'm really excited about what Alberta's done to enable nurse practitioners to
(32:04):
play a more fundamental role in primary care, and I hope more follow suit.
But I think registered nurses and licensed practical nurses and registered psychiatric
nurses can play a much larger role if some of the barriers that are negatively
impacting their ability to fully participate and work to their scope were lifted up.
(32:26):
And one of them are, let's be truthful, it's historical funding mechanisms that
were designed for a system that had a very different makeup and very different
practice when they were designed.
They need to be modernized. Yeah.
Yeah, they need to be modernized. And I think, you know, the need of the public is different now.
(32:50):
And our systems have not kept up with that.
You are so right.
I'm so interested in what you were saying about the relationship between the
public and nurses and recognizing that it is this trusted profession.
And as you said, it comes with expectations as well.
(33:12):
And I think it's a really interesting dynamic between nurses, the public,
their patients, and that role of advocacy that nurses have on behalf of the public.
What I'm curious about then is how do we start to change some of these systems
(33:36):
that have been in place for, it feels like eons,
and have not kept up with the changing expectations and needs of the people we serve?
You know, I think we need to have a multifocal approach to how we do that.
And I think one of them is we need to become more united in our advocacy efforts.
(33:58):
You know, as the predominant workforce in the health system in this country,
when we speak together on issues, we have a significant impact.
And we've seen that actually through our advocacy work during the pandemic,
where the Canadian nurses are the Canadian Federation of Nursing Unions and
CNA, when we advocate together on issues,
(34:20):
you know, those things are heard, and they're taken note of.
When we advocate in partnership with the Canadian Medical Association,
government pays attention to that.
And so I think we need to leverage those things. And the other thing I think
it is, is we need to help nurses participate.
We did a survey of nurses back in 2022.
(34:41):
And it was really, we were trying to get nurses input in establishing our policy
and advocacy priorities for the organization.
And one of the things that the nurses told us is
they want to participate in advocacy activities
but they don't all feel the same
(35:01):
or they don't all have the same level of confidence and so
as an example if we ask them okay we're going to have a campaign where we want
you to letters to their mps they didn't all feel confident to do that because
they didn't all feel confident i could write that letter and i could feel like
i knew the content and i knew know how to say it and what to say and what to ask for.
(35:23):
But they said to us, if there's a system that you can give me the template.
And then I'll participate, I'll send it. And so we did.
We use a technology that when we do a letter writing campaign,
a nurse or even a member of the public can participate in the campaign.
But our last one, we had 3,400 submissions, which was amazing.
(35:46):
And the nurse clicks the link, they put in their name, they put in their postal
code, and they put in their email address.
And when they do that, the letter pops up so they can see what's being sent
on their their behalf, they're able to make edits to it.
So say, for example, if they know their member of parliament,
or they know their member of the legislative assembly, they can kind of customize
(36:06):
it and make it more personal, they can leave it as it is.
And it'll send it automatically to their MP or their their MLA.
And and it adds their voice to an important advocacy activity.
Yeah. And so I think, you know, that's one of the ways that that nurses can participate.
You know, it's also So voting, you know, when there's an election,
(36:29):
go talk to the candidates.
CNA as an organization, we put out an election brief that nurses can have in
their hand when they go and talk to members of parliament that are running for
re-election or individuals that are running against them and,
you know, talk to them about issues that are important to nursing, get their position,
(36:50):
educate them, you know, because we can influence decisions long after if we
educate them at the time they're running and even better if they promise something.
What comes up for me as you share all of that is the idea of supporting people to advocate,
giving them the tools, because as you said, people are at different places and
(37:12):
feel differently with confidence levels and knowing the content and all that,
but giving them the tools so that they can advocate in whatever way,
shape, or form that feels right for them.
Yeah. And I think the other thing that I'd say is that advocacy looks different.
And, you know, there's all kinds of different advocacy. There's little A advocacy and there's big A.
(37:35):
And I think nurses advocate all the time, you know, for their patient,
for, you know, their work environments, for themselves.
I don't know if they recognize it all the time, but it's fundamentally part
of what we do as a profession.
I'm glad you brought that forward and the difference between the big A and the
(37:56):
little a and recognizing that advocacy really is baked into what nurses do every day.
Oh, it is. It could be as simple as advocating for funding for clothes for an
individual that's With getting discharged, it doesn't have the means to get...
(38:16):
A pair of shoes or a pair of pants to get discharged home or for access to resources
for their medication, or, you know, it could even be, you know,
advocating for access to service. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
And that's so powerful. Just those things that people do on a daily basis that
maybe are necessarily recognized or,
(38:40):
or maybe we need to spend more time as individuals thinking about that important
advocacy that we do do on a daily basis. That is so important.
Well, because we might think that that effort or that advocacy that we did was
not that significant, but it could change the trajectory of that patient's life forever.
(39:04):
And it might be huge for them.
Yeah, a hundred percent. Tim, this has been wonderful. And I know there's so
much more to say about this.
But in closing for today, what I'm curious about is given the crisis in healthcare
and the workloads and the struggles that nurses feel,
(39:28):
what would be your words of encouragement for them?
I would say that we are here,
we are listening, we want to help, that have them tell us their stories so that
we can continue to support them, that I believe that we will get through this.
(39:48):
I've certainly seen that governments are hearing they're starting to make decisions,
they're starting to invest, and we're starting to see some movement on some of these solutions.
It's just not fast enough, but I believe we'll get there.
And the other thing I would say is to anyone that is thinking of the nursing
(40:10):
profession that now might be afraid because I'm hearing that there are nursing
programs around the country that are not having their seats filled and that
individuals aren't applying for nursing anymore. more. This is an amazing career.
It can be so rewarding.
And the other thing that I would add is that we need to support each other and
(40:31):
that we need to back each other and we need to mentor each other.
And I think it'll make a difference.
Well said. Thank you, Tim, so much for your time today. My pleasure.
Thanks so much for joining us today at Central Line Leadership in Healthcare. care.
Also, if you liked what you heard, please head on over to Apple Podcasts to
(40:54):
leave us a review. Be sure to subscribe so that you never miss an episode.
Also, if you'd like to learn more about our host, Leah Woodchick,
check out talltreesleadership.com.
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