Fire in the Fireplace: A Christian Perspective on Sex {Reflections}

We live in a culture saturated with sexual messaging, yet meaningful conversations about sexual ethics often remain elusive. Drawing from both pastoral experience and personal journey as a parent of four, Ryan offers a refreshingly balanced framework for understanding human sexuality that moves beyond both prudish restrictions and casual disregard.

The conversation begins with Frederick Buechner's powerful metaphor comparing sex to nitroglycerin—a substance with equal potential to destroy bridges or heal hearts. This dual nature of sexuality frames a thoughtful exploration of how physical intimacy creates connections that transcend the merely physical. Rather than focusing on rigid rules or boundaries, Ryan presents a coherence-based approach where the level of physical intimacy between partners ideally matches their level of commitment.

This framework provides practical wisdom for listeners in various life stages—whether parents seeking language to discuss sexuality with children, individuals navigating romantic relationships, or anyone interested in developing a healthier relationship with their own sexuality. The episode's central insight—that sex creates soul connections beyond what can be measured—offers a profound counter-narrative to purely physical understandings of intimacy prevalent in contemporary culture. By the end, listeners gain a perspective that honors both the profound power and beautiful potential of human sexuality without reducing it to either sin or salvation.

Join our community and continue these meaningful conversations in person at Central in Elk River or online at clcelkriver.org. We'd love to hear how these perspectives resonate with your own journey and experiences.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:14):
What is up everybody?
Hey, my name is Ryan, andwelcome to our Reflections
podcast.
And today I want to whateverday it is where you're listening
to this but I did want to talkabout something that's actually
very much a part of our cultureand kind of almost at the center
of it, at the top layer of it,but one that I think I don't
know would be helpful to talkabout in this seven-minute
podcast.
But I wanted to talk about sexand because, you know, I have

(00:38):
four youngish kids, and so fortheir whole lives I've been
trying to figure out what is myown sort of ethic of sexual
activity and this kind of thing,and how do I explain it to
young kids in a way that'shelpful and not a hindrance, and
that's healthy and that's good,and that's also, you know, for
me.
I'm a Christian pastor and somy faith informs my practice and

(01:01):
my ethics and these kinds ofthings, and so I wanted to
certainly consult that stream oftradition in my life, and so
I'm going to share just a coupleof ideas that I love, that I
think are really have helped me.
Maybe they'll help youconstruct your own or, if you're
a parent, help you to talkabout sex with your kids, or
maybe you were just too too putoff by talking about sex.
You just turned it off rightnow.

(01:21):
But so okay, and I wanna youknow I've been doing a couple of
podcasts about quotes.
Here's a great quote about sexthat I love by a guy called
Frederick Buechner, andFrederick Buechner is a great
theologian author, writer.
He's great, written a bunch ofbooks.
You can read him, just Googlehis name.
But he says this about sex Ilove it of in this poetic way.

(01:47):
But he says contrary to MrsGrundy Mrs Grundy is this
mythical character who is likethis puritanical, you know,
embodiment of conventionalpropriety, and kind of known for
this is an old reference, butactually I had to Google it and
she's sort of known for in thesestories for being a bit of a,
you know, a bit prudish on someof these things.
And so he says, contrary to her, sex is not sin.

(02:08):
Contrary to Hugh Hefner, it'snot salvation either.
Like nitroglycerin, it can beused either to blow up bridges
or to heal hearts.
I love that.
And he goes on.
He says this this is one morething he says At its roots, the
hunger for food is the hungerfor survival.
At its roots, the hunger forfood is the hunger for survival.
At its roots, the hunger toknow a person sexually is the

(02:33):
hunger to know and be known bythat person humanly.
Food without nourishmentdoesn't fill the bill for long,
and neither does sex withouthumanness.
So good, he says.
At its roots, the hunger forfood is the hunger for survival,
and at its roots, to know aperson is the hunger for
survival.
And at its roots to know aperson, this hunger and desire
to know a person sexually is thehunger to know and be known by
that person humanly.
And so food without nourishmentdoesn't fill the bill, and

(02:56):
neither does sex withouthumanness.
And I'm just, I'm telling youtoo much of our sexual
engagement activity, our posturetowards sex, is lacking the
humanness, the soul, the insideparts of us.
And so here's how I think aboutsex, sort of my own ethic for
sex.
Um, yeah, it is likenitroglycerin or like fire.
Fire in the fireplace isbeautiful.

(03:18):
It can warm your house, it canlight the way, um, it can do a
number of things.
But fire, if it comes out ofthe fireplace, it can burn the
house down.
I used to always tell my kidswhen they were younger that they
kind of got that idea.
But the scripture says thisabout about two humans, says the
two will become one and they'lldo it sort of in this
engagement of sexual activity.
Now, look, I'm not going toargue about what is sex and what

(03:39):
is not sex.
I think we all have this kindof general idea of like physical
activity and intimacy sort ofhas this scale and you get
closer to the top it's sort ofsomewhere up in there right.
If down at the bottom is likeholding hands, well, and maybe
up one more is a hug, I don'tknow.
Whatever you get the ideaSomewhere at the top, right is

(04:00):
what I'm talking about.
But yeah, when that's out ofthe fire it's like in its proper
place.
This sexual intimacy can be anincredible connection piece and
I do think it somehow engagesthe soul, sort of the psyche,
the part of us that can't bemeasured, that somehow sex is
beyond a physical activity.
It sort of somehow engages thispart of us that is like this

(04:21):
inside part of us that longs tobe known and to know.
And so the Bible says thatactually, that it's sort of how
two people become one.
It's the way we become bondedto another person.
Physically, that's easy to seeand explain, but also, like I
don't know, our souls somehowbecome intertwined.
It's just how it works.
And the Bible is this ancient,I get it, it's antiquated old
book, but man, it speaks to thehuman condition beautifully,

(04:45):
poetically, profoundly, in somany ways, and I think it does
here as well.
I think sex is that it's a waywe become bonded and to somehow
become one.
And so think about it this way,then, what we say with bodies
like our physical bodies andthis giving and receiving of
sort of the most intimate formof pleasure you know, in sexual
activity.
I think it's also good, then,to like, have that match what we

(05:06):
say with the rest of our lives,with each other, with the other
person.
So, so, like our physical levelof intimacy it should match the
, the commitment level we havewith each other and our love for
each other.
And so, like a high level ofphysical intimacy, like, let's
say, sex is the top, thatdoesn't match the level of
commitment or of love, of a deep, profound love, other-centered

(05:28):
love, it's a problem.
So like if your sexual intimacylevel is like a 10, let's say,
and your commitment, let's sayyou just met, let's say it's
like a one-night stand and youjust met, that'd be like a zero
or a one.
Those don't match and itcreates a problem because what
you're saying with your sort of,with this sexual part of
yourself and the souls beingintertwined, it doesn't have the

(05:49):
structure to be carried withthe mutual commitment.
So I tell my kids now thatthey're a little bit older, I'm
like like hey, how physical youget with your, like your
significant other, boyfriend,girlfriend, it really should
match.
You know how committed you are.
So if you just met and you'reon date number one, I don't know
, maybe a high five will do it.
I'm not, I'm not trying tosound prudish myself like I'm

(06:10):
just saying if you're just gonnaknow each other, hey, like,
let's just let's take it slowand like keep those levels kind
of matching.
And if the person that you'redating or that you are hanging
out with wants to become a level10 on a sexual intimacy scale,
10 being the top, tell them,listen, this is what I would say
.
Hey, I want that to match mylevel of commitment and to me,

(06:31):
the most deep and profound atleast in our culture today to be
committed, the deepest, mostprofound level of commitment is
still marriage you getting up infront of your friends and
family and loved ones, and maybea pastor, and saying, hey, I
give myself to you and viceversa.
You share vows, you exchangerings, you have a party, this
beautiful ritual.
That's the highest level ofcommitment we have in our

(06:52):
culture.
That's just what we have.
So that's why I think that sexis just the best in that context
.
That's what keeps in thefireplace and keeps the house
warm and and uh and lights theway and doesn't burn everything
down.
And so, like, the core valuehere is coherence, right, the
coherence of our lives, thatthings match, that they go
together rather thanfragmentation.
And when you have one thingoutweighing the other in

(07:15):
commitment versus sexualintimacy, it can become this
lopsided thing.
And just don't forget that sexis the way that two humans can
become bonded in a way that wecan't even explain, that it
can't even be seen with ourphysical, it can't be measured
or weighed, and there'ssomething in there that just
gets intertwined.
And so this is, I think, whatthe problem is with so many of
these casual sexual encountersis that it's just there's no

(07:37):
infrastructure to hold thatweighty.
Because sex is a weighty,dangerous, beautiful thing, like
a fire, like nitroglycerin.
It's incredibly dangerous andpoignant and profound.
And so there you go.
That's what I'd say.
You know, sex isn't sin, butit's also not salvation.
It can be this thing that canlight your way, warm your house.
It can burn it all down.
It can blow up bridges or healhearts.

(07:58):
And take it seriously, and mayour levels of sexual intimacy
match our levels of commitment.
I think that's what I have tosay about that.
So, all right, love you guys,peace.
Hey, if you enjoy this show,I'd love to have you share it

(08:20):
with some friends.
And don't forget, you arealways welcome to join us in
person at Central in Elk Riverat 830, which is our liturgical
gathering, or at 10 o'clock, ourmodern gathering, or you can
check us out online atclcelkriverorg.
Peace.