Birmingham: Experiencing the presence of the one true living God

Have you ever felt the need to connect with God beyond the rituals and traditions you grew up with? Join Matt and Joe as they share their compelling journeys from a Catholic upbringing to a vibrant, personal relationship with God that transcends mere ritualistic reverence. In this episode, we discuss the indispensable role of the Bible as a guidepost while emphasizing that true faith is a living, dynamic connection with the Divine. Listen to our heartfelt reflections on the challenges of making faith personal and active in religious settings that often don't fully convey this relationship.

Experience a powerful revelation alongside us as we recount a transformative spiritual encounter during a business meeting that redefined our life priorities. A simple worship song by Francesca Battistelli becomes the backdrop for an intimate vision of walking on a beach with Jesus, receiving affirmations from past loved ones, and recognizing the true pursuit of life. We also explore the deeply personal and unique nature of divine moments, like Joe's "Birmingham experience," and share insights on seeking spiritual connection through quiet reflection, enjoying nature, and other personal moments. This episode is filled with inspiring stories and thought-provoking discussions that challenge you to embrace a more genuine connection with God.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, good morning guys.
Welcome back to the CertainSuccess Podcast.
Matt and Joe here and todaywe're going to rock your world,
rock your theology, maybe, andwe're going to talk about the
Bible, God's living word, theBible, God's living word, and

(00:30):
we're going to talk about theone true living God who still
speaks, and what's therelationship between those
things?
And for me, I, you know I was,I was raised Catholic and you
know the the the Bible wasexalted and you know the Bible
was exalted, but there wasn't alot of conversation about God
actually speaking to mepersonally, other than what I

(00:53):
might derive through the word,and that's changed a lot.
It's changed a lot in my heartand I know it has for Joe too.
And, um, we're calling thisepisode Birmingham, and you'll
find out why here as we unpackit.
But, but, but, Joe, I want tohear, I want to hear your
thoughts, uh, about just thewhole conversation about the

(01:19):
word versus God himself.
God, himself.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Man, it seems like each day we go a little bit
deeper.
So it's like we were talkingabout earlier.
There are so many unopenedBibles across the world that sit
on people's desks.
They might even be put in aposition of, you know, kind of

(01:45):
showing it off as as part oftheir decor.
You know, it might be somethingthat's an heirloom, it has
meaning, but it's not everopened.
And the Bible for me and again,I was raised Catholic too there
wasn't.
There wasn't a lot of emphasison the Bible, catholic too,

(02:18):
there wasn't a lot of emphasison the Bible and, for all of
our's, about the word itself.
And, and for me, I worshipJesus and the foundation of, of

(02:38):
our Christianity or for me, isthe word of God.
Without the word of God, I havenothing to look at, I have
nothing to go back and makereference to.
I don't worship the book, Iworship a living God, and our

(02:58):
living God is always in actionand we are created in God's
image and he wants us to beinaction.
He doesn't want a lukewarmbeliever, he wants someone that
is fervent and and chasing him.
And so I, just as a kid, theBible wasn't, it wasn't exposed

(03:20):
to me.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yeah, you know, I also.
You know, when I grew up, therewere Bibles in our house but
they were not getting opened.
And while I'm certain thatthere were some devout
Christians around me in ourchurch and the, maybe the
priests and stuff, and you know,who knows?

(03:43):
I'm sure there were, but Ididn't know them.
And who knows?
I'm sure there were, but Ididn't know them and there was
nothing that was attracting metoward what seemed like devout
faith in Jesus.
It was all about kneeling andstanding, as I like to say, and

(04:05):
exalting.
It seemed like they wereexalting this book, which it's,
the book.
It should be elevated.
it's god's word, but it isn'tgod himself, it's just pointing
at god and um, and you know,like we were talking about
earlier, just how much wordsmatter the way, the way we

(04:29):
describe it to people, uh, therelationship that I'm describing
and our posture matters.
And, like I was saying about the, the priests of my childhood, I
think maybe they actuallyreally were worshiping jesus,
that maybe their I hope theirfaith was completely genuine,

(04:51):
but the, the religiosity of ofit all, like to me as a child,
what I saw was, oh, they'reworshiping this book, he's, you
know, kissing this book and likemaking a big pomp and
circumstance out of reading saidbook and turning it into
something that just could notcompute to my childlike brain at

(05:13):
all.
So all I saw was like a bunchof people in a room smoking
incense, you know, worshiping abook, you know, and that set me
down a really a really godlesspath for a long part of my early
life, you know, in my, in mytwenties, I was pretty sure

(05:34):
there was no God, because I'dnever saw any evidence from
anybody's witness in myupbringing of anything more than
worshiping this book.
So now I think that, after twodecades of personal relationship
with the one true, living Godwho actually speaks and is, and

(05:57):
I realize that, oh, this book iscritically important and is a
reference and is a guidepost tosay, well, is this thing that
I'm thinking about really fromGod?
Well, let's see, is itconsistent with this book?
I'm not trying to take anythingaway from the authority of

(06:18):
scripture at all, but I thinkthis distinction is so important
and I think that think that,frankly, I think most people
that are listening to this maybedon't understand or have not
heard what we're talking aboutbefore.
Um, what do you think aboutthat?

Speaker 2 (06:38):
yeah, you don't know, um, when you're, when you're in
your own little community ofbelievers and you see the same
thing over and over again.
As an altar boy growing up, Iserved a lot of morning masses
before school even started.
But Catholicism to me was thefoundation of my Christianity,

(07:00):
it was the beginning, it was theroot of it, and I wouldn't
trade those days for nothing.
That was, that was.
That was really, uh, watchingthe, the stress of my parents
get six kids ready for churchevery sunday.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
you know everybody's pissed off in the car and you
better straighten up when youget in there sharing one
bathroom, six kids sharing onebathroom, and oh, my gosh I went
to school with kids, that theyfamilies that had eight kids in
their family, uh, so I'm notcomplaining about that.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
Um, I actually, you know, you see the president give
uh, lifetime awards to people.
I think parents that had to getkids ready for school and
church every week.
There should be an award forthat, but we survived.

(07:59):
It was the reverence that I hadin church and what my parents
taught us, you know, and andthat we were in, we were in
God's house and we just therewas a, there was a level of
respect.
Um, we didn't come from aperfect family.

(08:21):
We were, we were broken, justlike the next family, but it was
the foundation of of going tothis community school, this
catholic school, for all thoseyears, with a lot of the same
kids.
And we see each other onfacebook.
We'll say hi to each other nowand then, but you, the

(08:43):
difference between the child andthe student that I was in high
school to the man that I amtoday isn't about the kneeling,
the standing, the miscellatesthat they gave you in church and
what you read from each SundayIn that repeat performance.

(09:03):
Almost every Sunday, you canexpect the same thing.
You can expect the same familyto walk in late, you can expect
everything to seem to be thesame every Sunday.
What I have enjoyed since movingon from the Catholic Church is
the variety of Christ, is the.
I didn't know that before.

(09:26):
You read a scripture and itchanges you.
It changes the way you look atsomeone or something, and I just
don't think there was anemphasis on that growing up as a
kid.
One of the things that I lovetalking about and I shared with
you the other day is the onesong that sticks in my head as a
kid is you know, they will know, we are Christians by our love.

(09:48):
I learned that in the Catholicfaith and that is the number one
commandment of God's word.
And so if that's yourfoundation, and so if that's
your foundation, it's okay.

(10:09):
What's after that, now that thefoundation's laid and your
pillars are with me and sharesomething that moved in your
heart and how, how that allplayed out with me, and I think

(10:32):
that would be something thatwould, if you share that, that
kind of that tees up the rest ofthe Birmingham story.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Well, I think you know to kind of close that first
chapter of this conversationabout our upbringing, and that I
think that I grew up in a worldwhere the religion that I was
witnessing and that I wasparticipating in put God in a

(11:00):
little box of like this is whohe is and how he acts.
And you said that it was thesame every week.
It was like, okay, well, as achild I experienced that week in
and week out, week in and weekout.
Oh God, is that God?
Is that exercise in this room?
And the kneeling and thestanding and the incense, and

(11:20):
like that's God.
And now fast forward, decadeslater, you and I have both
experienced God and realized howbig he is and how much more he
is than that.
That that's just one littlepiece of what God is and how he
shows up.
And but to fast forward toBirmingham, what we're talking

(11:46):
about here is an experience thatJoe and I had together in
Birmingham, where we invited Godto show up in a private prayer
time together and expected himto do something remarkable and

(12:07):
surprise us.
And surprise us, he did.
And it's the foundation ofeverything that we're talking
about here and all the work thatJoe and everybody in the world
to experience, becauseeverything else, all the
business and the whatever, allthe stuff of the world fades

(12:31):
quickly.
There's a song like that, youknow, when God shows up and
blows your mind, that nothing,nothing's the same after that.
And so for us, not that it wasthe only time God's ever done
that, but it was a remarkablemoment in our relationship, joe
and mine, and so we talk aboutit all the time of like the

(12:52):
birmingham experience and likebringing people back to that and
, um, you know, I, I think it'sit.
It's.
You know your personalexperience and I don't know that
the detail is going to matter,that.
You know it's not going toimpact anybody the way it's.
You know your personalexperience and I don't know that
the detail is going to matter,that you know it's not going to
impact anybody the way itimpacted you, joe, because you
were the one there experiencingit.
This was more joe experiencingit than me, but I was.

(13:15):
It was weird because I waswatching it happen and it was
undeniable what I was watchingand that was just like freaking
me out to watch it happen, and Ifeel like all this is just
getting lost and nobody knowswhat the hell we're talking
about all right.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
So so, yeah, let's go .
So, uh, in a matter of moments,matt's like, hey, let's, let's
go, let's go to christ, let's goto God in prayer.
And he says, but let me getsome music on.
And I'm like, okay, and guys,never in my life, you know, and

(13:53):
I'm 60 years of age with thisguy having a business meeting
who I love and respect, how manyof you can say that you've
ended a business meeting with aprayer song, a worship song and
prayer?
So Matt was coming at me andsaying, hey, let's, let's, let's
finish off today with a worshipsong.

(14:15):
And he, he turned on Holyspirit, which is, uh, was, in
this case, was FrancescaBattistelli, another good
Italian.
It's got more vowels than you,matt.
And as soon as that song started, I closed my eyes and I went

(14:37):
into a quiet place with the Lord, and, as if it was the
beginning of a movie that youhad anticipated going to and
you're sitting down, the room isdark All of a sudden, along

(14:58):
with the music of Holy Spiritplaying quite visibly.
On my left side of me, as I'mwalking on the beach, is the
shoreline, I can hear birds, andin front of me Christ is

(15:20):
walking and he's in a white robeand he's now going from a walk
to kind of a steady, slow jogand I can hear him laughing, and
so I start picking up my paceto catch him.
And this music is playingbehind me and everything that

(15:41):
I'm sharing with you right nowis as real as I can possibly
explain it to you withoutsounding totally out there Again
.
Nothing like this has everhappened to me before.
And then, as I'm getting closerto Christ, he turns around,
probably still about 20 yardsaway from me, and he turns

(16:03):
around and he looks at me with abig smile and he says what is
it that you want?
And then he turned around andkept his jaw going and laughing,
not at me, but with pure joy.
There was laughter coming fromhim.
Then I'm still chasing him andhe turns around and this time he

(16:29):
stops and he looks at me and hesays everything that you have
ever wanted is right here.
And I immediately knew and thisis where Matt's visibly
watching the tears roll off ofmy face what Christ was saying

(16:51):
is I'm the one you should bechasing.
My wife, throughout our marriage, has said when will the kids
and I be enough?
And Christ was saying the samething to me Everything you've

(17:12):
ever wanted is right here, butyet you keep chasing everything
else.
And then he turned around againand he started running towards
his right.
Now he's heading towards thehomes that are looking over this
coastline and he starts runningup these wooden stairs and I'm

(17:33):
right behind him and as I'mcoming up the stairs I see these
, these lights, white lightsthat are dangling from like a
pergola of a back porch, of a ofa home, and it's like a
craftsman home.
If I can, if I can even getinto detail, this home is a
craftsman style home and it'snear evening time.

(17:59):
And when I get up to the top ofthe stairs, there is every one
of my past family that hasalready stepped over into this
internal realm with Christ.
My parents are there, my auntsand uncles, those that I have
loved.

(18:20):
I'm seeing them in theiryounger, physical, healthier
bodies and they're clapping asI'm coming up the stairs.
And they're clapping as I'mcoming up the stairs and my dad

(18:41):
grabs me and mom is right withhim and my dad grabs me and
grabs the back of my head.
He says I'm so proud of you andyou know, that's something I
really always wanted to hearfrom my dad and it wasn't often
that he said it, but when hesaid it it was so impactful in

(19:06):
my life, especially as a youngfather raising kids you wanted
to hear your dad say, hey,you're doing all right, you're
hanging tough.
And as soon as he said that,christ got my attention again.
He said, hey, come here.
He's reaching his hand out tograb my hand.
He wanted to pull me to theother side of the deck to show
me something.

(19:27):
And so I'm seeing the faces ofmy relatives, I'm walking past
them and I get to the other sideof the deck and he shows me
another deck of people that areon another home pergola, with
lights and people out thereenjoying themselves.

(19:47):
And he says you know who theyare.
And I said no, he said they'rehere because of you.
And, um, that's when the songwas coming to an end and Matt's
kind of nudging my my leg goinghey, joe, joe, you know, cause

(20:12):
that song is four minutes long,if not longer.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
But it felt like it probably felt like an hour of
experience.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
It was an amazing experience and there isn't
anything that I can say toanyone that's listening to this
call.
It's not something you justmanufacture in your head and say
, hey, I guess I'm going to havethis thought today.
This was as real as if I wasthere and Christ had come and

(20:43):
said hey, we need to have thischat.
And it's an important chatbecause for your entire life
you've chased the wrong thing.
Yes, I know you love me and Iknow you do a quiet time.
Joe, I know that you're writinga book, I know that you share
with other people your faith,but in reality, you still don't
put me first.

(21:03):
You still chase the concerns ofyour life how much money is in
your account?
Is the house payment taken careof?
Is the car payments taken careof?

Speaker 1 (21:14):
All of that and when you're standing on that deck
with Jesus, the thought of thebills and the RV repair and all
that stuff.
I don't think those thoughtswere prominent, right?
It's like everything disappears,yeah, and so let's pull it back
, right pull it backconversation of you know, for me

(21:39):
, and I think for so manychristians we were, we've been
taught that god is only thisbook and it's like no, the book
is just to point you at thebirmingham experience, point you

(22:00):
at the birmingham experienceand to give you guideposts to
understand that experience.
And when you read the storiesin the scripture about the
experiences of those people thatare in the scripture and the
experiences they had with theone true living god, that's when
it's like, oh, like they hadbirmingham experiences, right,
and and you know, and for me, Imean, I I've I can't remember

(22:22):
them all now in recent years,but I've had those same kinds of
experiences.
But I want to talk about onewhich was a dream, and I don't
know if I I really don't know,joe, if I told you about this,
but I had a dream, and I don'tknow if I, I really don't know,
joe, if I told you about this,but I had a dream where, all of
a sudden, I was at a party in abig house and I and I it's funny

(22:43):
because they're that's the onlysimilarity to your story but I
was at a party in a big house, Ithink it was my house, and I
was in the basement and all of asudden I was flying through
this basement from room to roomand there was something going on
with flipping the lightswitches, but I don't know what
that was.
But I realized at some pointI'm not flying, I'm being

(23:08):
propelled, something is carryingme at a rapid pace and I was
afraid and I wanted to stop andso I like planted my feet and
turned and I was able to stopmyself.
I planted my feet and turnedand then there were just like

(23:28):
lightning bolts in entering mybody and and I like screamed or
yelled, like oh, but like it waslike a power kind of yell, not
like a scared yell, like all thepower in the world.
And unfortunately I it turnsout that I did that yelling in

(23:55):
the physical world as wellScared my wife to death.
She thought I was having aheart attack.
It's about six months ago and um, yada, yada I mean there's so
many more details to that story.
But I knew when I woke up thatmy god basically said to me when

(24:15):
I was waking, like that was thepower of the holy spirit.
And can I explain that toanyone?
Absolutely not, like there's noway that I can articulate it in
any way that would meananything to anybody.
That was just god, that wasjust for me.
Looks like birmingham was justfor you and and that's the God

(24:42):
we worship and our alignmenttogether and our work with
clients and all of it is allwrapped around that centerpiece
of all this business stuff andthe stuff of the world.
We got to go do it, let's go doit, let's make business and

(25:04):
money and all that stuff, butlike none of it matters except
in the context of Birmingham.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
Right, and that's, and that's.
That's exactly right.
And I and I even share this asuh as as I do some additional
writing that my birminghamexperience is going to be
different for every human.
They're going to have differentemotions.
It may be a different song, itmay be quiet, it may be just

(25:36):
sitting still, it might be justgoing to the beach and getting a
chair and sitting there andlooking at the water and
enjoying what God created.
And again, I couldn'tmanufacture that.
And since then, you know,crisis come back to that beach

(26:01):
for me a few more times andthat's probably another podcast.
But, um, I now am putting thepuzzle pieces together of what
he wants and, and mostimportantly, what he wants is us
to chase him?
That's what he wants.

(26:26):
Is us to chase him?
That's what he wants.
Chase him and to the pointwhere now we're in cadence with
him and you know, you know it'slike, do we ever catch him?

Speaker 1 (26:35):
no, no, no.
And and this idea of 10,000levels to you know.
Coming back to the scriptures,um, I keep finding a newness to
you know, like, pick one simplescripture that you've heard a
million times, that you seekfirst the kingdom.

(26:58):
Like I have considered thatlike a life verse for decades,
and but in recent years, likethere's, there's always, there's
a new layer, there's a newlevel of like oh, that's what
that means.
And or or, there's anotherlevel of what that means for me,
and it's not a head levelknowing, it's a heart level,

(27:30):
knowing, and that's where theword comes alive.
When you're like oh, I feelwhat that means in a way that I
didn't feel it before, feel whatthat means in a way that I
didn't feel it before.
You know, and um, and so, man,I'm so glad we got this out.
Joe was like Whoa, we were likewe got to talk about this.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
I know and you know, and I think about it out loud.
Listen, if your kids came homefrom school let's say they're
going to a private school,christian school and they came
home and said, yeah, we had aspeaker come in today and talk
about his encounter with Christon a beach, you know I'd be
calling the school saying, youknow what loony tune did you
have talking to my kid today?
And the thing is is I evenrealized that some of it just

(28:16):
sounds out there, and that's OK,that's OK.
There's so much about the wordof God just sounds out there,
and that's okay, that's okay.
There's so much about the Wordof God that seems out there.
There's so much about therelationship that each of us
have with Christ that's outthere that it doesn't make sense
for someone else and it's notmeant to make sense for someone
else.
It's our relationship withChrist, it's our walk with

(28:40):
Christ and he wants us to pursuehim and, like you just said, we
can't catch him right until wedo catch him.
And that's our eternal glorywhen we get to heaven and that's
when he wraps us up in his armsand I'm I'm telling you guys, I
have felt that love of knowingthat that's what's coming and,

(29:07):
um, we want you guys toexperience the same thing, will
you?

Speaker 1 (29:12):
I don't know well, but to me I'm glad you're kind
of going to the same place I wasabout to go in terms of Well,
to me I'm glad you're kind ofgoing to the same place I was
about to go in terms of sort ofthe punchline, if you're
listening to this, and that isthat, that experience that Joe
and I are talking about, it'sright there.
It's not work to get there,it's just like willingness,

(29:33):
openness, belief, like I'masking God to show up and speak
to me in this moment, and likeit's 10 seconds to Birmingham.
It's 10 seconds to thatexperience if you're open to it
and you invite it in.
And you know, I mean, yeah,there's some like method and all

(29:53):
that stuff to it.
Well, I guess we talked aboutthat for a second.
You know, like the, the, thefailure of birmingham was the
fact that the whole drive overthere and the whole day leading
up to the experience that joehad was, like me wrestling in my
humanity with the fact that Iknew I wanted him to have this
experience and I like, wanted tolike do all the things right

(30:17):
and like set it up so that ithappened, and like you know the
hocus pocus of it and you knowhow clearly I failed at all of
that.
I mean, god showed up anywayand did everything that he did,
and nothing that I did matteredexcept for, I mean, I did want
it to happen and I did createthe space for it to happen, and

(30:38):
but there's nothing else that Idid except show up, and there's
nothing else that Joe did exceptshow up and you showed up in in
.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
What did you get to do?
You showed up and you watchedit happen.
And that's what Christ wantsfor us.
He wants us to show up andwatch him happen.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
Yeah, and it's, and it's so much more.
I mean, you know your ownexperience with crisis is the
coolest thing in the world, butthe next best thing is to watch
someone else experiencesomething that you know is the
most insanely genuine experienceof Christ ever, and you're like
watching it going.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
And you guys didn't see a man's face, but his jaw
was open and he says you're justwatching God.
And you guys didn't see uhmatt's face, but his jaw was
open and he says you're justwatching god and you're just in
awe and uh, that's a good.
That's probably a good place tokind of wrap it up.
Man is, yeah, the from the.
From the beginning of thisconversation we talked about.
The foundation of our walk inchristianity started in the

(31:37):
catholic.
It started with this book, theBible.
It started with the power ofthe Word of God and that book
became a living piece of ourlives through diving into His
Word and learning to live HisWord.
And we don't worship a Bible,we worship a loving, living God

(32:01):
who came and saved us from oursin, and we dig it.
It's hard at times but we loveit and we look forward to the
end result and that's glory withhim.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
Amen, bro Y'all.
Thank you for listening to theCertain Success Podcast.
We'll see you back here againsoon.
See you, joe.