June 5, 2025 • 29 mins
97% of CFO consultants never crack 7-figures
Mark Gandy’s been breaking the mold since 2001. With a 98% close rate, 250+ podcast episodes. He’s living proof that the “fractional CFO” label is killing your growth.
In this episode, he shares:
🔑 The #1 sales secret that closes more deals than any pitch deck
⚡️ Why recurring revenue might actually hurt your growth
🚀 How referrals alone fuel his million-dollar business and why it works
💥 The mindset that took him from Big 8 burnout to a thriving 20+ year CFO practice
If you’re tired of playing small, this episode is your roadmap to real success.
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today we are joined by none other than Mark Gandy
from G3 CFO and the host of CFOBookshelf, one of the top
podcasts in the accountingindustry today.
In this episode we get intosome pretty controversial topics
around the term fractional whenit comes to being a fractional
CFO More on that to come checkit out, let me know your
(00:22):
thoughts.
And we also get into somepretty cool conversations around
running a sales call and howbeing curious and asking the
right questions leads to closingmore deals instead of going
into a call thinking about Ineed to close this deal.
Check out this episode, let meknow your thoughts.
Super excited for you to divein.
I do want to send a quick shoutout to our sponsors over at
(00:44):
Universal Accounting.
Thank you so much forsponsoring the show, for
everything you do for theindustry.
If you're looking to grow yourbookkeeping, tax or accounting
firm, make sure to check outUniversal Accounting.
They're amazing at what they do, helping you build the premier
accounting firm.
Make sure to check them out.
To our guest, mark Gandy fromG3 CFO and the host of CFO
(01:05):
Bookshelf Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
By the way, I know the people at Universal
Accounting, so I don't know ifyou'll get paid twice for me
mentioning they're good people.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Really great people.
We just got back from theirevent, growcon a couple weeks
ago at the start of May.
It was our second time at theevent, sponsoring Roger, christy
, leslie all of them justawesome people.
How do you know the folks atUniversal Accounting?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I actually know the people before Roger.
Of course, roger has a greatpersonality, very outgoing, so I
think when he stepped in and Idon't know the full story he's
really, I think, taken themarketing to another level.
But even before the Roger erait was phenomenal.
(01:50):
I mean great content.
So they've been around.
I personally I think they'reunderrated, but I met Roger
personally through his people,reached out to CFO Bookshelf and
we did an interview and again,he's a wonderful human being.
But, by the way, thank you.
I just I want to say somethingreal quickly.
(02:11):
I'm not used to doing video.
I'm having a bad hair day andand and so I'm a little bit
nervous, a little bit shy aboutbeing in front of the camera.
It's not really.
I don't think it's my thing.
The reason we do podcasts audiois so people don't get to see
the face.
So I'm sorry for anyonewatching this on YouTube once
(02:34):
it's posted.
Sorry, I don't have the TomCruise look.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Well, look, I have a bad hair day pretty much every
day, so I just wear a hat.
So you're, you're, you're doingfine.
Um, mark, I would love to divein and just hear a little bit
about how you got started in theindustry and before we get to
where you're at now, is is beinga fractional CFO.
Playing with numbers and andhelping out business is
(03:00):
something you always knew youwanted to do from from your time
on the playground and in school.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
That is a very interesting question and, by the
way, anytime someone says thisit means they're stalling, but I
think the Reader's Digestversion almost have to step back
.
A couple of W2 positionsstarted my career.
I'm on the end of the babyboomer era, which is giving away
(03:30):
my age, so that meant I workedfor a big eight firm and after
that I worked in the privateworld, and the private world was
outstanding.
Worked in numerous roles CFO,controllership, internal audit,
special projects.
But what I learned, James, wasI got bored very quickly.
(03:53):
I love project work.
When I was working as CFO itwould get boring because you
only do one acquisition, maybe ayear.
Because you only do oneacquisition maybe a year.
There's only maybe one or twoprojects big that occur about
every 12 to 18 months.
But I love the projects.
So when I was working as a W-2staff member I can say this
(04:19):
because the statute oflimitations have expired I did a
pretty big five-figureconsulting project on my own
time in the early 1990s and whenI wrapped up I just thought
this is fun, I loved it and itwould take 12 years later before
I could turn this into my ownpractice.
(04:39):
And then, once I got the chance,my wife and I were fully
debt-free, had some money in thebank.
Once I got the chance, my wifeand I were fully debt-free, had
some money in the bank.
It's like let's go do this.
So I've been doing this, James,since 2001.
This is before the concept ofCFO work, the virtual CFO, all
(05:02):
the stupid names that we havefor it.
By the way, don't get me startedon the term fractional.
There is nothing fractionalabout me.
I think I'm pretty whole.
I mean, my barber is notfractional, my electrician is
not fractional.
Why the heck are CFOsfractional?
We're whole people.
But I just knew years ago thatI want to do something to where
I can kind of control my ownwork, my own projects.
(05:26):
And, by the way, I don't likethe reoccurring revenue stream
because I have too much work.
There's always, always work tobe done.
So I just love doing theimplementation work.
And I do have some clients thatare 20 years old, 15 years old.
I don't really prefer them.
They won't let me quit.
But again, I love theimplementation work.
(05:46):
So that's not the Reader'sDigest version.
Probably went too long, butmaybe that's a setup for a
follow-up.
Is that helpful?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Oh, it's really helpful and I love I'm going to
say it probably a couple maybecontroversial takes as well,
like not the recurring revenue,not the, the term fractional.
I think it's great andhopefully stems um a lot of
questions and comments.
What, what about?
I mean you kind of mentioned itfor you're a whole person, but
(06:17):
is there anything else about,like the term fractional that
that you're not a fan of?
I mean I I saw on LinkedIn.
You've been around, you've beendoing this before it became a
buzzword in the last couple ofyears, but from my perspective,
the fractional piece is kind ofa fraction of the cost I get
(06:38):
you're a whole person going in.
Do you agree with the fractionof the cost position of that CFO
coming in who's not full-timewith the company, or what is it
about?
Fractional?
That kind of rubs you the wrongway.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Of course, the name won't mean anything, but Jim
Gann, who is one of my favoritehuman beings here in central
Missouri, who's a part of theMissouri University Small
Business Development Center for20 plus years.
He referred to me as afractional CFO back in 2014.
I wrote that in a book thatI've never published I don't
(07:14):
know if I ever will and it wasjust a turnoff just the term,
because I thought that's sogimmicky, so marketing-ish.
I like to think I'm a littlebit better than I am.
I like to think of myself asI'm a little McKenzie or I'm a
little BCG, and my thought onthe fraction of a cost is I have
(07:37):
never.
My closure rate is almost 100%,almost 100%.
The two times I did not get aclient was because of stupidity,
but my close rate is nearly100% and I never had someone say
what will this cost as we gothrough.
Here's what needs to be done.
(07:58):
It's like when can you start?
And then we get around talkingabout the costs.
So it's not cheap.
I mean what these people pay,it is very, very expensive.
Their payback is they'regetting a solution faster than
if they tried to bungle throughthe process themselves.
(08:19):
So Fraxel really has nothing todo with the price.
Now I realize I've seen a lotof the cfo people who teach
other cfos getting into thebusiness that this is one of
your propositions.
It's not for me.
For me, the proposition is thatI can help you get to a
(08:40):
solution faster than if you tryto do this on your own.
Price just never comes up.
It's just kind of a non-issue.
Does that kind of resonate alittle bit?
Speaker 1 (08:53):
It does and I appreciate your take on that and
where you're coming from withthe fractional piece for how I
was bringing that up.
I would love to get into maybea little bit more of your sales
process, because I know that'ssomething that not everyone's
comfortable with.
You mentioned price reallynever comes up.
It sounds like you do a reallygood job at just asking the
right questions and knowing whento ask or when to push a little
(09:17):
bit harder on that bruise.
Do you have any insight oradvice you're able to share with
listeners who maybe aren't ascomfortable with the sales
process and what works so wellfor you?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
The beauty of being a very highly analytical person.
By the way, people who arehighly analytical, the first
question we ask when we come outof the womb is why?
So someone who's highlyanalytical, with poor
communication skills like me?
It's like, how do I make thiswork for me?
(09:56):
Because I hate self-promotion.
I'm not the guy who wants to goto an event and mingle because
I stink at small talk.
But here are two things that Ilove, james.
I do love business, I lovetalking business and I love just
learning.
So how do I take that rawmaterial when I'm in a
(10:19):
conversation with a CEO and Inever look at these as sales
conversations.
I look at them as justdiscovery conversations.
So what I'm doing and I evenhave a name for it because I do
teach other salespeople businessdevelopment coaching for some
of my clients and we talk abouteither the 3E process or the 4E
(10:41):
process.
Now again, this is for me.
It's really tailored for me,not necessarily other people,
it's for my personality, but forme the first E is just engaging
, and usually I love sports.
I love fantasy football, I loveMajor League Baseball.
I have a kid who was adecathlon national champion, so
(11:04):
I just love sports and mostpeople I work with love sports
too.
What else do people love?
They love their families, theylove their kids.
So if I'm in an office and Isee kids, I'll start asking.
That's a 15-minute conversation.
So I call that exploring andfor me that's easy because I
love asking questions.
(11:27):
Exploring and for me that's easybecause I love asking questions
and then I start engaging withthem.
Tell me, what keeps you up atnight.
It's one of my favoritequestions.
I kind of got that from DanSullivan what dangers do you
want to eliminate?
What keeps you from wanting toget up at night?
Because usually most CEOs aretrying to eliminate a problem
instead of maximizing someopportunity.
It's just kind of human nature.
Sometimes those conversationsjust that one question, maybe 30
(11:50):
to 40 minutes, and so theyallow me to take notes and I'll
just be circling things that Ithink I can help with, and then
I'll start asking questions,which then turns into the
education process.
So as I pick on some thingsthat they brought up, I can
start circling and identify hey,here's how I think we can help
(12:14):
you here.
So that is a process that'scompletely tailored for a
personality like mine, who's notnecessarily super outgoing, but
I'm good at listening and goodat answering questions and that
I do feel very, very confidentin, and that's really the best
way I could answer that question.
You're not selling, you're justhaving a conversation,
(12:37):
answering questions in an areathat hopefully you love talking
about, which I do.
How does that sound?
Speaker 1 (12:46):
It sounds like you're just being a human having
another conversation withanother human and you're
removing the stigma of I need tosell you something versus I'm
just genuinely interested inwhat's happening in your
business and maybe I can help.
I might have a solution thatcould help, but I don't know
until I ask the questions.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Hey, Derp, you nailed it.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Yeah, that's cool.
That is something that I thinkso many people might get in
their own way of is, if you'regoing into the conversation of I
need to make this sale, it'sall about you and that's not
what the conversation is.
It's about the individualyou're speaking to and having a
genuine interest in.
If you can even help them.
You can't and you can't helpeveryone.
(13:29):
So the fact that you mentionedyour close rate is almost 100%
tells me that you're probablypretty quick to identify
somewhere in your process thatthey may not even be a good fit
for what you can do.
Otherwise, you're not evenmaking an offer to help.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
You're so clairvoyant , james.
I don't promote this.
I do coach other CFOs gettinginto the business and when we
get to sales I pull up two booktitles.
I've never read the books, Ijust love the book titles
they're called.
It's Not About Me.
One of them, I think, is by MaxLicato and I don't know who the
(14:10):
other but I have a slide and Ijust say look at these titles
and memorize them, internalizethem.
So what you just said was veryperceptive.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, awesome.
I'll have to check out thosebooks I feel like I've heard of.
It's Not About Me, but like you, I haven't read it myself.
Tell me a little bit about theCFO Bookshelf Mark, and how long
the podcast's been, on, whatthe typical conversation looks
like and why people should checkit out if they haven't already
(14:42):
potentially heard about it.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
You know I hate to use the word should.
I learned 21 years ago.
22 years ago, you never tell anentrepreneur you should.
Those are the two worst words.
So I'm not going to say youshould.
If you like books, if you are areader, the show might be of
interest.
So yeah, again, I stink atself-promotion.
(15:04):
By the way, we're idiots.
We're on a little bit of hiatusand our next show after the
hiatus will be with one of theformer presidents of Starbucks.
It's like, why did we do ahiatus?
Why didn't we do the hiatusafter the episode with the
former president with Starbucks?
(15:24):
So we're really looking forwardto that.
The show is launched in 2024,had already started the website
about three or four yearsearlier.
It was a weekly newsletter,which, by the way, is a lot of
work, and what was happening wasI was already reading a lot.
So all of my CEOs they refer tome as the guy who, this guy's a
(15:46):
reader and I get pumped forknowledge, for questions, book
titles, and I finally justthought why don't I just start a
rinky-dink website?
And I'll just start.
I had great intentions, james.
I'd be doing all these bookreviews, but do you know how
hard it is to do a book reviewand how long it takes.
(16:06):
So, instead of doing a lot ofblog entries, I focus on the
weekly newsletter, and I wasshocked.
I focus on the weeklynewsletter and I was shocked.
I did about 160 of those.
I don't know.
I look back as how did I dothat?
Well, back in 2020, and itreally has nothing to do with
COVID it was just the time Ithought let's just do a podcast,
(16:27):
because my youngest son and Iand I can't believe I'm saying
this we've taken it down.
No one can find us.
But my youngest son and I did afantasy football podcast and
the people who listened to itthey loved it.
They thought the productionquality was phenomenal and we
did put a lot of work into it.
It was a lot of fun.
(16:47):
It was a way to just reallyconnect with one of my kids, and
it was a way to just reallyconnect with one of my kids and
I thought why don't I just dothis, do a real podcast, as my
son would say.
So that was the birth of CFOBookshelf back in 2020.
We've just finished our 200,about our 250th episode, and
(17:08):
again, the show is based onbusiness books.
We get tons, tons of hey.
We'd love to have him on theshow, but it's like they're not
book authors.
It's like people want to usethe show as a launching pad for
marketing, but no, we lovebusiness authors.
Our shows are about an hourlong.
I think I'm one of the fewpodcasters who actually provides
(17:31):
an interview arc.
Mary Childs of NPR said I'venever seen this before.
Had a lot of A-list bookauthors say we've never seen
this before.
So that makes us feel good.
They really appreciate the workbecause each show takes a lot
of time.
You have to read the book.
Sometimes I read the book twiceand then do the interview and
(17:54):
then we put the show notestogether.
So enjoy it, but it's hard work, as you should know.
Now.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, that's so good.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
That's awesome you mentionedyou've said a couple of times
now you're maybe a little shy oryou don't like the
self-promotion.
You have a successful businessyou have a couple times now
you're maybe a little shy or youdon't like the self-promotion.
You have a successful business.
You have a successful podcast.
You're obviously doingsomething right for people to
know about you one way oranother.
How do people find out aboutyou and how do new clients come
(18:25):
through the door to work withyou and your team?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
you know.
So I have to say that uh and,by the way, it's's not really
shy, is I have learned over theyears.
That's the nice thing aboutgetting old you kind of learn
things about yourself in ahealthy way and a lot of
analytical people.
We are not self promoters andthere's, by the way, there's
nothing wrong.
(18:48):
I wish I were a self promoter.
But if you go to LinkedIn youcan tell oh, he loves self
promoting.
It's kind of like publicspeakers.
There are two types of publicspeakers.
They are the people who theyeither have to or they need to.
But I belong to the third typeand so self-promotion it's kind
of either need to want to, but Ibelong to third, which is have
(19:10):
to.
But to answer your question, g3CFO is where I do my main
business.
Now I do not take on any client.
I only take on clients who'vebeen referred to me, and there's
a reason for that.
That means they arepre-inclined, they're
pre-disposed, they're also beenpre-qualified.
So the people who refer to me,they know what they're going to
(19:32):
get.
The people who refer to me,they know the type of clients I
want to work with.
So the only reason I have awebsite is mainly because of a
lot of the posts I've written,they're not written for people
who are looking for a CFO.
They're written for the peopleI've worked with in the past or
currently.
So you can go to G3 CFO tolearn more.
(19:55):
You can also go to CFOBookshelf if you want to listen
to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Do you ask your clients for referrals or you
just do such an awesome job thatthey just do it without-.
I don't ask.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
I do not ask Because what happens is one of my
favorite all-time clients and Ican't say his name.
Plus, he's very, very humble,by the way, you learned through
experience right and one of myfirst clients.
He loved the work so much youcan't help it.
You can't help it.
It's like you don't.
(20:31):
You know, you don't cover up alight or a candle which is a
parable from years ago.
So when you do good work, youkind of want to share that with
other people, and there havebeen some times where I've had
too much work and it's allbecause of referrals.
Now, the referral game is hard.
(20:51):
It's, it's a marathon, butthere's a trick and a concept in
the early stages.
But once you've been arounddoing this for about eight, nine
, 10 years, you've got a greatliving for the rest of your life
, as long as you want to do this.
So it's not that I asked.
I've never asked because to methat would be too cheesy.
(21:14):
I want people to think I'malways busy, which I am, but I
don't have to ask becausethey're doing it without me
asking.
So now, does every client dothat?
No, because some of them are invery highly competitive
environments Like this cardealership may not want me
working with their competitorsbecause they like having me all
(21:37):
to themselves.
So I would say that about 60%.
Yeah, they love just putting myname out there and most of my
client work referral, referral,referral, referral from clients.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
That's awesome.
Appreciate you sharing that,Mark.
Last question for you what'sthe best piece of advice you've
ever received?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
I will have the perfect answer in three days.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
So everyone listening .
I was not prepped for thisquestion, so this is going to be
authentic.
I go back.
I attended strategic coach forthree years, by the way, highly
recommend it.
Even if you're a one personshop, I highly recommend going
to strategic coach, at least forthree years.
They used to call it thefoundations program.
(22:35):
They prefer people who haveteams.
In a way, I do have teams.
I have external contractorsthat do work for me, so I'm
managing some pieces, but thatwas my way of skirting that
requirement.
Stephanie Song is one of the.
I don't know where her role isin strategic coach, but I was
(22:57):
struggling with a product that Iwas wanting to put out and she
knows me to a t.
She knows I'm a perfectionist.
She knows that I I don't wantto put anything out there.
Is it set Seth Godin who saysjust ship it, ship it.
I need this little audio ofSeth Just ship it.
(23:17):
Mark Idiot, ship it.
But Stephanie once said Mark,your 80% is another person's
100%.
And the light went on and Iplay that comment over and over.
That was back in 2015.
So we are 10 years later and Istill got that voice.
(23:39):
It's the best advice is,especially if you're trying to
launch something brand new, justship it because you're 80% and,
by the way, the people that arelistening we are the best in
the world at what we do.
I mean period, and sometimes wemay be holding back because we
want it to be a little bitbetter, and for me, that's a
(24:03):
serious issue I have to dealwith even every day, but that's
been great advice for me.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I love that.
Your 80% is better than someoneelse's.
100%, that's a hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
That's a great for you.
For you it could be your 60%.
Is another person's a hundred?
Speaker 1 (24:24):
percent because you are an a player.
We'll go.
We'll go with the 80.
We don't need it.
We don't need to pump my tiresthat much, but I appreciate it,
mark.
Um um.
No, that that's awesome adviceand that's a great spot to to
end this on as well.
Um, thank you so much foreverything you shared and in all
of your knowledge.
I really enjoyed thisconversation and I I hope a lot
of people listen and enjoy andcomment and spark a conversation
(24:47):
on this episode.
If anyone does want to get intouch with you, how, what would
be the best way they could dothat If you're open to it
LinkedIn, linkedin.
Perfect, all right, we'll putyour profile link in there.
I'll make sure it's the right,mark Gandy, because trying to
get you on the show reached outto your name twin.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
I have some good stories on that, but maybe that
can be an episode numberwhatever.
I have some funny stories onthat, but that maybe that can be
an episode number whatever.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I have some funny stories on the other, mark
gandys, I, I would imagine,because even just your first
response back, uh sorry, our,our response.
Uh, I think I'm getting themmixed up, but I reached out to
who I thought was you and he waslike actually, you know this,
it's this mark here and you knowthey share the same name he, he
.
He's better looking and was abetter baseball player too, but
(25:37):
it's okay, it's okay real, Iguess real quick, just because
we're on the topic, have youguys ever had a chance to meet
up in person, or you justexchanged a lot of messages?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
we've.
We've done back and forth.
Uh, on linkedin.
He's in texas, I think houston,and I don't get down there too
often.
I've been in san antonio,dallas, but I I that's a good
idea.
I need to meet him, he'sanother.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
He's another cfo as well, if I'm not mistaken he is
another.
Yeah, so that's that's where itwas.
It was like what are the, whatare the odds?
Same name, same profession,yeah that's cool, yeah, awesome.
Well, thank you so much.
I've taken up a lot of yourtime here.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show.
I hope people reach out and,again, really enjoyed the
conversation.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
You, you are, you are great.
This.
You made this easy.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of CFO
Chronicles the secrets behindsuccess.
I hope you found value intoday's conversation.
As we wrap up, I'd love for youto do two things.
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It helps others discover theinsights we share here.
Second, if you're ready to takeyour business to the next level
(26:48):
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Call it's time to positionyourself as the advisor your
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And don't forget you canconnect with me on LinkedIn to
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We've got exciting topicscoming up, so stay tuned for the
next episode of CFO Chronicles.
(27:10):
Until then, keep pushingforward your for the next
episode of CFO Chronicles Untilthen keep pushing forward.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Your growth is just one strategic move away.
Thanks for listening to CFOChronicles the secrets behind
success.
We hope today's episodeprovided valuable strategies to
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(27:36):
Your feedback helps us bringyou the best insights in finance
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Until next time, keep strivingfor success and unlocking your
business's potential.
Today we are joined by none other than Mark Gandy
from G3 CFO and the host of CFOBookshelf, one of the top
podcasts in the accountingindustry today.
In this episode we get intosome pretty controversial topics
around the term fractional whenit comes to being a fractional
CFO More on that to come checkit out, let me know your
(00:22):
thoughts.
And we also get into somepretty cool conversations around
running a sales call and howbeing curious and asking the
right questions leads to closingmore deals instead of going
into a call thinking about Ineed to close this deal.
Check out this episode, let meknow your thoughts.
Super excited for you to divein.
I do want to send a quick shoutout to our sponsors over at
(00:44):
Universal Accounting.
Thank you so much forsponsoring the show, for
everything you do for theindustry.
If you're looking to grow yourbookkeeping, tax or accounting
firm, make sure to check outUniversal Accounting.
They're amazing at what they do, helping you build the premier
accounting firm.
Make sure to check them out.
To our guest, mark Gandy fromG3 CFO and the host of CFO
(01:05):
Bookshelf Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
By the way, I know the people at Universal
Accounting, so I don't know ifyou'll get paid twice for me
mentioning they're good people.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Really great people.
We just got back from theirevent, growcon a couple weeks
ago at the start of May.
It was our second time at theevent, sponsoring Roger, christy
, leslie all of them justawesome people.
How do you know the folks atUniversal Accounting?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I actually know the people before Roger.
Of course, roger has a greatpersonality, very outgoing, so I
think when he stepped in and Idon't know the full story he's
really, I think, taken themarketing to another level.
But even before the Roger erait was phenomenal.
(01:50):
I mean great content.
So they've been around.
I personally I think they'reunderrated, but I met Roger
personally through his people,reached out to CFO Bookshelf and
we did an interview and again,he's a wonderful human being.
But, by the way, thank you.
I just I want to say somethingreal quickly.
(02:11):
I'm not used to doing video.
I'm having a bad hair day andand and so I'm a little bit
nervous, a little bit shy aboutbeing in front of the camera.
It's not really.
I don't think it's my thing.
The reason we do podcasts audiois so people don't get to see
the face.
So I'm sorry for anyonewatching this on YouTube once
(02:34):
it's posted.
Sorry, I don't have the TomCruise look.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Well, look, I have a bad hair day pretty much every
day, so I just wear a hat.
So you're, you're, you're doingfine.
Um, mark, I would love to divein and just hear a little bit
about how you got started in theindustry and before we get to
where you're at now, is is beinga fractional CFO.
Playing with numbers and andhelping out business is
(03:00):
something you always knew youwanted to do from from your time
on the playground and in school.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
That is a very interesting question and, by the
way, anytime someone says thisit means they're stalling, but I
think the Reader's Digestversion almost have to step back
.
A couple of W2 positionsstarted my career.
I'm on the end of the babyboomer era, which is giving away
(03:30):
my age, so that meant I workedfor a big eight firm and after
that I worked in the privateworld, and the private world was
outstanding.
Worked in numerous roles CFO,controllership, internal audit,
special projects.
But what I learned, James, wasI got bored very quickly.
(03:53):
I love project work.
When I was working as CFO itwould get boring because you
only do one acquisition, maybe ayear.
Because you only do oneacquisition maybe a year.
There's only maybe one or twoprojects big that occur about
every 12 to 18 months.
But I love the projects.
So when I was working as a W-2staff member I can say this
(04:19):
because the statute oflimitations have expired I did a
pretty big five-figureconsulting project on my own
time in the early 1990s and whenI wrapped up I just thought
this is fun, I loved it and itwould take 12 years later before
I could turn this into my ownpractice.
(04:39):
And then, once I got the chance,my wife and I were fully
debt-free, had some money in thebank.
Once I got the chance, my wifeand I were fully debt-free, had
some money in the bank.
It's like let's go do this.
So I've been doing this, James,since 2001.
This is before the concept ofCFO work, the virtual CFO, all
(05:02):
the stupid names that we havefor it.
By the way, don't get me startedon the term fractional.
There is nothing fractionalabout me.
I think I'm pretty whole.
I mean, my barber is notfractional, my electrician is
not fractional.
Why the heck are CFOsfractional?
We're whole people.
But I just knew years ago thatI want to do something to where
I can kind of control my ownwork, my own projects.
(05:26):
And, by the way, I don't likethe reoccurring revenue stream
because I have too much work.
There's always, always work tobe done.
So I just love doing theimplementation work.
And I do have some clients thatare 20 years old, 15 years old.
I don't really prefer them.
They won't let me quit.
But again, I love theimplementation work.
(05:46):
So that's not the Reader'sDigest version.
Probably went too long, butmaybe that's a setup for a
follow-up.
Is that helpful?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Oh, it's really helpful and I love I'm going to
say it probably a couple maybecontroversial takes as well,
like not the recurring revenue,not the, the term fractional.
I think it's great andhopefully stems um a lot of
questions and comments.
What, what about?
I mean you kind of mentioned itfor you're a whole person, but
(06:17):
is there anything else about,like the term fractional that
that you're not a fan of?
I mean I I saw on LinkedIn.
You've been around, you've beendoing this before it became a
buzzword in the last couple ofyears, but from my perspective,
the fractional piece is kind ofa fraction of the cost I get
(06:38):
you're a whole person going in.
Do you agree with the fractionof the cost position of that CFO
coming in who's not full-timewith the company, or what is it
about?
Fractional?
That kind of rubs you the wrongway.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Of course, the name won't mean anything, but Jim
Gann, who is one of my favoritehuman beings here in central
Missouri, who's a part of theMissouri University Small
Business Development Center for20 plus years.
He referred to me as afractional CFO back in 2014.
I wrote that in a book thatI've never published I don't
(07:14):
know if I ever will and it wasjust a turnoff just the term,
because I thought that's sogimmicky, so marketing-ish.
I like to think I'm a littlebit better than I am.
I like to think of myself asI'm a little McKenzie or I'm a
little BCG, and my thought onthe fraction of a cost is I have
(07:37):
never.
My closure rate is almost 100%,almost 100%.
The two times I did not get aclient was because of stupidity,
but my close rate is nearly100% and I never had someone say
what will this cost as we gothrough.
Here's what needs to be done.
(07:58):
It's like when can you start?
And then we get around talkingabout the costs.
So it's not cheap.
I mean what these people pay,it is very, very expensive.
Their payback is they'regetting a solution faster than
if they tried to bungle throughthe process themselves.
(08:19):
So Fraxel really has nothing todo with the price.
Now I realize I've seen a lotof the cfo people who teach
other cfos getting into thebusiness that this is one of
your propositions.
It's not for me.
For me, the proposition is thatI can help you get to a
(08:40):
solution faster than if you tryto do this on your own.
Price just never comes up.
It's just kind of a non-issue.
Does that kind of resonate alittle bit?
Speaker 1 (08:53):
It does and I appreciate your take on that and
where you're coming from withthe fractional piece for how I
was bringing that up.
I would love to get into maybea little bit more of your sales
process, because I know that'ssomething that not everyone's
comfortable with.
You mentioned price reallynever comes up.
It sounds like you do a reallygood job at just asking the
right questions and knowing whento ask or when to push a little
(09:17):
bit harder on that bruise.
Do you have any insight oradvice you're able to share with
listeners who maybe aren't ascomfortable with the sales
process and what works so wellfor you?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
The beauty of being a very highly analytical person.
By the way, people who arehighly analytical, the first
question we ask when we come outof the womb is why?
So someone who's highlyanalytical, with poor
communication skills like me?
It's like, how do I make thiswork for me?
(09:56):
Because I hate self-promotion.
I'm not the guy who wants to goto an event and mingle because
I stink at small talk.
But here are two things that Ilove, james.
I do love business, I lovetalking business and I love just
learning.
So how do I take that rawmaterial when I'm in a
(10:19):
conversation with a CEO and Inever look at these as sales
conversations.
I look at them as justdiscovery conversations.
So what I'm doing and I evenhave a name for it because I do
teach other salespeople businessdevelopment coaching for some
of my clients and we talk abouteither the 3E process or the 4E
(10:41):
process.
Now again, this is for me.
It's really tailored for me,not necessarily other people,
it's for my personality, but forme the first E is just engaging
, and usually I love sports.
I love fantasy football, I loveMajor League Baseball.
I have a kid who was adecathlon national champion, so
(11:04):
I just love sports and mostpeople I work with love sports
too.
What else do people love?
They love their families, theylove their kids.
So if I'm in an office and Isee kids, I'll start asking.
That's a 15-minute conversation.
So I call that exploring andfor me that's easy because I
love asking questions.
(11:27):
Exploring and for me that's easybecause I love asking questions
and then I start engaging withthem.
Tell me, what keeps you up atnight.
It's one of my favoritequestions.
I kind of got that from DanSullivan what dangers do you
want to eliminate?
What keeps you from wanting toget up at night?
Because usually most CEOs aretrying to eliminate a problem
instead of maximizing someopportunity.
It's just kind of human nature.
Sometimes those conversationsjust that one question, maybe 30
(11:50):
to 40 minutes, and so theyallow me to take notes and I'll
just be circling things that Ithink I can help with, and then
I'll start asking questions,which then turns into the
education process.
So as I pick on some thingsthat they brought up, I can
start circling and identify hey,here's how I think we can help
(12:14):
you here.
So that is a process that'scompletely tailored for a
personality like mine, who's notnecessarily super outgoing, but
I'm good at listening and goodat answering questions and that
I do feel very, very confidentin, and that's really the best
way I could answer that question.
You're not selling, you're justhaving a conversation,
(12:37):
answering questions in an areathat hopefully you love talking
about, which I do.
How does that sound?
Speaker 1 (12:46):
It sounds like you're just being a human having
another conversation withanother human and you're
removing the stigma of I need tosell you something versus I'm
just genuinely interested inwhat's happening in your
business and maybe I can help.
I might have a solution thatcould help, but I don't know
until I ask the questions.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Hey, Derp, you nailed it.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Yeah, that's cool.
That is something that I thinkso many people might get in
their own way of is, if you'regoing into the conversation of I
need to make this sale, it'sall about you and that's not
what the conversation is.
It's about the individualyou're speaking to and having a
genuine interest in.
If you can even help them.
You can't and you can't helpeveryone.
(13:29):
So the fact that you mentionedyour close rate is almost 100%
tells me that you're probablypretty quick to identify
somewhere in your process thatthey may not even be a good fit
for what you can do.
Otherwise, you're not evenmaking an offer to help.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
You're so clairvoyant , james.
I don't promote this.
I do coach other CFOs gettinginto the business and when we
get to sales I pull up two booktitles.
I've never read the books, Ijust love the book titles
they're called.
It's Not About Me.
One of them, I think, is by MaxLicato and I don't know who the
(14:10):
other but I have a slide and Ijust say look at these titles
and memorize them, internalizethem.
So what you just said was veryperceptive.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, awesome.
I'll have to check out thosebooks I feel like I've heard of.
It's Not About Me, but like you, I haven't read it myself.
Tell me a little bit about theCFO Bookshelf Mark, and how long
the podcast's been, on, whatthe typical conversation looks
like and why people should checkit out if they haven't already
(14:42):
potentially heard about it.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
You know I hate to use the word should.
I learned 21 years ago.
22 years ago, you never tell anentrepreneur you should.
Those are the two worst words.
So I'm not going to say youshould.
If you like books, if you are areader, the show might be of
interest.
So yeah, again, I stink atself-promotion.
(15:04):
By the way, we're idiots.
We're on a little bit of hiatusand our next show after the
hiatus will be with one of theformer presidents of Starbucks.
It's like, why did we do ahiatus?
Why didn't we do the hiatusafter the episode with the
former president with Starbucks?
(15:24):
So we're really looking forwardto that.
The show is launched in 2024,had already started the website
about three or four yearsearlier.
It was a weekly newsletter,which, by the way, is a lot of
work, and what was happening wasI was already reading a lot.
So all of my CEOs they refer tome as the guy who, this guy's a
(15:46):
reader and I get pumped forknowledge, for questions, book
titles, and I finally justthought why don't I just start a
rinky-dink website?
And I'll just start.
I had great intentions, james.
I'd be doing all these bookreviews, but do you know how
hard it is to do a book reviewand how long it takes.
(16:06):
So, instead of doing a lot ofblog entries, I focus on the
weekly newsletter, and I wasshocked.
I focus on the weeklynewsletter and I was shocked.
I did about 160 of those.
I don't know.
I look back as how did I dothat?
Well, back in 2020, and itreally has nothing to do with
COVID it was just the time Ithought let's just do a podcast,
(16:27):
because my youngest son and Iand I can't believe I'm saying
this we've taken it down.
No one can find us.
But my youngest son and I did afantasy football podcast and
the people who listened to itthey loved it.
They thought the productionquality was phenomenal and we
did put a lot of work into it.
It was a lot of fun.
(16:47):
It was a way to just reallyconnect with one of my kids, and
it was a way to just reallyconnect with one of my kids and
I thought why don't I just dothis, do a real podcast, as my
son would say.
So that was the birth of CFOBookshelf back in 2020.
We've just finished our 200,about our 250th episode, and
(17:08):
again, the show is based onbusiness books.
We get tons, tons of hey.
We'd love to have him on theshow, but it's like they're not
book authors.
It's like people want to usethe show as a launching pad for
marketing, but no, we lovebusiness authors.
Our shows are about an hourlong.
I think I'm one of the fewpodcasters who actually provides
(17:31):
an interview arc.
Mary Childs of NPR said I'venever seen this before.
Had a lot of A-list bookauthors say we've never seen
this before.
So that makes us feel good.
They really appreciate the workbecause each show takes a lot
of time.
You have to read the book.
Sometimes I read the book twiceand then do the interview and
(17:54):
then we put the show notestogether.
So enjoy it, but it's hard work, as you should know.
Now.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, that's so good.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
That's awesome you mentionedyou've said a couple of times
now you're maybe a little shy oryou don't like the
self-promotion.
You have a successful businessyou have a couple times now
you're maybe a little shy or youdon't like the self-promotion.
You have a successful business.
You have a successful podcast.
You're obviously doingsomething right for people to
know about you one way oranother.
How do people find out aboutyou and how do new clients come
(18:25):
through the door to work withyou and your team?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
you know.
So I have to say that uh and,by the way, it's's not really
shy, is I have learned over theyears.
That's the nice thing aboutgetting old you kind of learn
things about yourself in ahealthy way and a lot of
analytical people.
We are not self promoters andthere's, by the way, there's
nothing wrong.
(18:48):
I wish I were a self promoter.
But if you go to LinkedIn youcan tell oh, he loves self
promoting.
It's kind of like publicspeakers.
There are two types of publicspeakers.
They are the people who theyeither have to or they need to.
But I belong to the third typeand so self-promotion it's kind
of either need to want to, but Ibelong to third, which is have
(19:10):
to.
But to answer your question, g3CFO is where I do my main
business.
Now I do not take on any client.
I only take on clients who'vebeen referred to me, and there's
a reason for that.
That means they arepre-inclined, they're
pre-disposed, they're also beenpre-qualified.
So the people who refer to me,they know what they're going to
(19:32):
get.
The people who refer to me,they know the type of clients I
want to work with.
So the only reason I have awebsite is mainly because of a
lot of the posts I've written,they're not written for people
who are looking for a CFO.
They're written for the peopleI've worked with in the past or
currently.
So you can go to G3 CFO tolearn more.
(19:55):
You can also go to CFOBookshelf if you want to listen
to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Do you ask your clients for referrals or you
just do such an awesome job thatthey just do it without-.
I don't ask.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
I do not ask Because what happens is one of my
favorite all-time clients and Ican't say his name.
Plus, he's very, very humble,by the way, you learned through
experience right and one of myfirst clients.
He loved the work so much youcan't help it.
You can't help it.
It's like you don't.
(20:31):
You know, you don't cover up alight or a candle which is a
parable from years ago.
So when you do good work, youkind of want to share that with
other people, and there havebeen some times where I've had
too much work and it's allbecause of referrals.
Now, the referral game is hard.
(20:51):
It's, it's a marathon, butthere's a trick and a concept in
the early stages.
But once you've been arounddoing this for about eight, nine
, 10 years, you've got a greatliving for the rest of your life
, as long as you want to do this.
So it's not that I asked.
I've never asked because to methat would be too cheesy.
(21:14):
I want people to think I'malways busy, which I am, but I
don't have to ask becausethey're doing it without me
asking.
So now, does every client dothat?
No, because some of them are invery highly competitive
environments Like this cardealership may not want me
working with their competitorsbecause they like having me all
(21:37):
to themselves.
So I would say that about 60%.
Yeah, they love just putting myname out there and most of my
client work referral, referral,referral, referral from clients.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
That's awesome.
Appreciate you sharing that,Mark.
Last question for you what'sthe best piece of advice you've
ever received?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
I will have the perfect answer in three days.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
So everyone listening .
I was not prepped for thisquestion, so this is going to be
authentic.
I go back.
I attended strategic coach forthree years, by the way, highly
recommend it.
Even if you're a one personshop, I highly recommend going
to strategic coach, at least forthree years.
They used to call it thefoundations program.
(22:35):
They prefer people who haveteams.
In a way, I do have teams.
I have external contractorsthat do work for me, so I'm
managing some pieces, but thatwas my way of skirting that
requirement.
Stephanie Song is one of the.
I don't know where her role isin strategic coach, but I was
(22:57):
struggling with a product that Iwas wanting to put out and she
knows me to a t.
She knows I'm a perfectionist.
She knows that I I don't wantto put anything out there.
Is it set Seth Godin who saysjust ship it, ship it.
I need this little audio ofSeth Just ship it.
(23:17):
Mark Idiot, ship it.
But Stephanie once said Mark,your 80% is another person's
100%.
And the light went on and Iplay that comment over and over.
That was back in 2015.
So we are 10 years later and Istill got that voice.
(23:39):
It's the best advice is,especially if you're trying to
launch something brand new, justship it because you're 80% and,
by the way, the people that arelistening we are the best in
the world at what we do.
I mean period, and sometimes wemay be holding back because we
want it to be a little bitbetter, and for me, that's a
(24:03):
serious issue I have to dealwith even every day, but that's
been great advice for me.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I love that.
Your 80% is better than someoneelse's.
100%, that's a hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
That's a great for you.
For you it could be your 60%.
Is another person's a hundred?
Speaker 1 (24:24):
percent because you are an a player.
We'll go.
We'll go with the 80.
We don't need it.
We don't need to pump my tiresthat much, but I appreciate it,
mark.
Um um.
No, that that's awesome adviceand that's a great spot to to
end this on as well.
Um, thank you so much foreverything you shared and in all
of your knowledge.
I really enjoyed thisconversation and I I hope a lot
of people listen and enjoy andcomment and spark a conversation
(24:47):
on this episode.
If anyone does want to get intouch with you, how, what would
be the best way they could dothat If you're open to it
LinkedIn, linkedin.
Perfect, all right, we'll putyour profile link in there.
I'll make sure it's the right,mark Gandy, because trying to
get you on the show reached outto your name twin.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
I have some good stories on that, but maybe that
can be an episode numberwhatever.
I have some funny stories onthat, but that maybe that can be
an episode number whatever.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I have some funny stories on the other, mark
gandys, I, I would imagine,because even just your first
response back, uh sorry, our,our response.
Uh, I think I'm getting themmixed up, but I reached out to
who I thought was you and he waslike actually, you know this,
it's this mark here and you knowthey share the same name he, he
.
He's better looking and was abetter baseball player too, but
(25:37):
it's okay, it's okay real, Iguess real quick, just because
we're on the topic, have youguys ever had a chance to meet
up in person, or you justexchanged a lot of messages?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
we've.
We've done back and forth.
Uh, on linkedin.
He's in texas, I think houston,and I don't get down there too
often.
I've been in san antonio,dallas, but I I that's a good
idea.
I need to meet him, he'sanother.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
He's another cfo as well, if I'm not mistaken he is
another.
Yeah, so that's that's where itwas.
It was like what are the, whatare the odds?
Same name, same profession,yeah that's cool, yeah, awesome.
Well, thank you so much.
I've taken up a lot of yourtime here.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show.
I hope people reach out and,again, really enjoyed the
conversation.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
You, you are, you are great.
This.
You made this easy.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of CFO
Chronicles the secrets behindsuccess.
I hope you found value intoday's conversation.
As we wrap up, I'd love for youto do two things.
First, make sure to subscribeto this podcast so you don't
miss any future episodes.
If you enjoyed today'sdiscussion, please rate and
review the show.
It helps others discover theinsights we share here.
Second, if you're ready to takeyour business to the next level
(26:48):
and attract the high-endclients you deserve, head over
to accountingleadsnowcom orclick the link in the show notes
to book your strategy.
Call it's time to positionyourself as the advisor your
clients need.
And don't forget you canconnect with me on LinkedIn to
stay up to date on what'shappening in the world of
accounting and financial growth.
We've got exciting topicscoming up, so stay tuned for the
next episode of CFO Chronicles.
(27:10):
Until then, keep pushingforward your for the next
episode of CFO Chronicles Untilthen keep pushing forward.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Your growth is just one strategic move away.
Thanks for listening to CFOChronicles the secrets behind
success.
We hope today's episodeprovided valuable strategies to
help you attract morehigh-paying clients.
Be sure to subscribe, followand share with fellow
professionals.
Connect with us on LinkedIn andleave a review or comment to
join the conversation.
(27:36):
Your feedback helps us bringyou the best insights in finance
and marketing.
Until next time, keep strivingfor success and unlocking your
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