March 16, 2022 • 43 mins
Nearly 1 in 3 people are perfectionists. While many carry it as a badge of honor, or use it as an explanation as to why they have not completed or started something, it really is a dream killer. Perfectionism creates unnecessary pressure, amps up worry, fear and doubt. It is one form of procrastination, something nearly all of us encounter at least occasionally, 20% of us chronically. It is possible, and I'd say necessary, to break-free from perfectionism and create an identity that is more self-supportive. Elizabeth Onyeabor is a leading international expert on perfectionist leaders and high achievers. As the Founder of InnerGenuity and Habitual Happiness Hub, she coaches leaders ready to move forward with ease, be their best, and achieve unstoppable results. She shares the four main reasons why people procrastinate, 7 Practical Practices for Perfectionists that will help you start letting go of your perfectionist tendencies, and Elizabeth reveals the one thing you can start practicing today that will help you lead a more joyful life.
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Elizabeth Onyeabor
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Michael Kithcart (00:03):
Welcome to champions of risk a podcast that
explores all aspects of highperformance and ways to navigate
uncertainty so that you have thetools and resources to win your
way in business and in life. Iwanted to unpack perfectionism
because it shows up a lot in mycoaching practice, and it's
usually usually comes in theform of an explanation as to why
(00:27):
someone is not moving forward onsomething that they said that
they wanted to get accomplished.
That sounds a lot likeprocrastination. So when I
looked a little bit deeper intoprocrastination, I discovered
that while there are severaldifferent types of
procrastinators, perfectionistswere at the top of the list. So
there is a lot of informationand instead of me trying to
(00:52):
figure it out, I did thebrilliant thing. I enlisted an
expert Elizabeth Onyeabor is aleading international expert on
perfectionist leaders and highachievers as the founder of
inner ingenuity and habitualhappiness. She coaches leaders
read, ready to move forward withease, be their best and achieve
unstoppable results. Elizabethhas guided both individual and
(01:16):
organizational transformationsaround the world for more than
25 years, and has been featuredon ABC, CBS, NBC, the Boston
Herald The list goes on. She isalso an award winning Best
selling author and poet. SoElizabeth, welcome to the
champions of risk Podcast. I'mso excited to have you here.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (01:39):
Thank you so much, Michael. It's exciting to
be here.
Michael Kithcart (01:43):
Well, I'm just gonna dig in How is your
relationship with perfectionism?
Elizabeth Onyeabor (01:52):
For me today, the relationship with
perfectionism is that I wouldsay that I'm no longer a
practicing perfectionist. Okay,so, and I gotta say, I struggled
a little bit with what do I callmyself now, really, because I
don't meet the definition ofperfectionist. But all of us who
(02:15):
have really worked in the selfdevelopment area, we know that
it's not something that you say,oh, okay, I've checked that off
my list. I've checked that offmy list. I've checked that off
my list, that's never going tohappen again, crappy, we know
that. When we expand our comfortzone, these traits and behaviors
(02:37):
pop up again. And so while I'mnot practicing perfectionism,
it's something that continues tobe a part of my identity. And I
have a lot greater awareness andtools to deal with that striving
to be perfect. Okay,
Michael Kithcart (02:59):
What was that moment in your life? Or that
moment in time? When you realizethat you actually were a
perfectionist? Did you gothrough a period of time where
you denied it? Or was it a fullembrace? And you were like a
badge of honor?
Elizabeth Onyeabor (03:18):
Well, I gotta tell you, I've worn
perfectionism like a badge ofhonor for as long as I can
remember, I also hit it as abrand of shame. But I didn't see
you know, I didn't let peoplesee that part of me because I
was trying to appear perfect.
But that's, that's the thingwith perfectionism is this
(03:40):
duality of it's, you know, we'dlike our high standards, we
don't want to let go of our highstandards. It's what makes us
right. But it's also what breaksus. It's like our kryptonite. So
it has this duality, and I'lltalk about that in a little
while, but there was always thisunderstanding that I was a
(04:02):
perfectionist and like some ofthe people you coach, it was my
excuse sometimes. Oh, well, I'ma little bit of a perfectionist.
Yeah, well, nobody's a littlebit of a perfectionist, you're
you're perfectionist, you meetthe definition, you don't meet
the definition. So it's justthat it shows it doesn't
necessarily show up the same wayin everything, which is why we
(04:26):
say I'm a little bit of aperfectionist, but I would say
the catalyzing moment was whenperfectionism almost killed me.
And in a strange way, it savedmy life too.
Michael Kithcart (04:45):
Okay, we have to, we have to unpack that.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (04:51):
So here I was wearing my perfectionism as
a badge of honor. All theseyears I called myself a high
achiever. Ever I was driven. Iwas, you know, in management.
And I got to this point I callit my midlife meltdown, trying
to be the perfect everything.
The perfect boss, the perfectwife, the perfect friend, but
(05:13):
most of all, the perfect mom.
And I knew I was none of thosethings. I never felt good
enough. And I was chasingachievement after achievement
after achievement and stillnever feeling good enough until
(05:33):
my midlife meltdown, and I foundmyself wailing crumpled on my
kitchen floor. And in thatmoment, I was sure that I never
would be good enough. And I, Ireally don't remember exactly
how I got up off the kitchenfloor. But I do know that I
(05:54):
walked over to my computer, andI was looking for the perfect
way to end the pain. And theproblem was, there is no perfect
way to end the pain, at leastfrom what I researched. That was
like, Okay, well, I'm just insuch pain, emotional turmoil.
(06:15):
And I looked at all thestatistics. And it's like, first
of all, if I'm going to do it,I'm going to do it. What I'm
going to do it right. Okay,
Michael Kithcart (06:25):
so now we are talking about you deciding that
you didn't want to be on theearth anymore.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (06:30):
Oh, yes, we're talking about suicidal
research.
Michael Kithcart (06:34):
So you even wanted to end your life
perfectly.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (06:38):
I wanted to end my life perfectly. Yeah, my
imperfect life. I wanted toimperfectly you can do see the
irony there, right. I mean, Idon't want to make light of
this. But there is so much ironyto it. And it's so indicative of
what happens with us asperfectionist, because there is
(07:00):
such back and forth and duality.
And so I was looking for, well,like, Could I go to sleep
forever, you know, like, I waslooking at all these things. And
I looked at the statistics, andthe statistics were appalling.
So and what had happened is thatmost of this statistics showed
that people who try to end theirlives are not successful, and
(07:21):
actually can cause a lot moreproblems. And I thought, Oh,
great, like, so I'm gonna failit that too. I mean, like, that
was just too much. So that was,that was the moment of, I would
say rock bottom, where care Ithought, you know, perfectionism
(07:45):
was crushing me so much that Ijust, I wanted out of life. And
at the same time, there was noperfect way to do it. So it's
cut the text in between.
Michael Kithcart (08:01):
And that was enough for you to realize that
maybe there was another option.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (08:05):
Yeah. So luckily for me, I went to sleep
just for the night, not forforever, because I had intended
and had a lot of conversationswith my, my family. So they
really, because I left thewebsite up, by the way, so they
actually saw what was going onin my mind that I hadn't
(08:26):
conveyed. And there's nowherebut up when you hit rock bottom.
And so I, I progressed. And ittook some years, actually, for
me to realize that it was tryingto be the perfect XYZ you fill
in the blank and make everythingperfect. That really just was at
(08:53):
the root of it.
Michael Kithcart (08:54):
Were you already in the type of work that
you were doing? Were you alreadyin professional development at
that time?
Elizabeth Onyeabor (09:07):
I've been coaching leaders for a long
time, because my background ishuman resources. And so I've
been the internal resource thateverybody goes to. So it's a
it's almost like being theinternal social worker in a way.
And so I thought I had done alot of self development. In
fact, I had checked all thesethings off my list, you see,
(09:28):
because I had this idea thatthat was something you know, I
fixed that I fixed that. But atthe time that I reached my rock
bottom, I had stopped all of thepractices that had really made
me feel good. One by one, I hadjust kind of sunk back into old
(09:51):
patterns and practices. And theissue was that I was so
achievement oriented. I waskeeping myself busy. I didn't
even know that I had beensuffering from chronic
depression for decades, until Iwas no longer going 150 miles an
(10:13):
hour, constantly,
Michael Kithcart (10:15):
yes, that often happens, right? Like you
have to, you have to get quiet,you have to slow down, to have a
lot of things be revealed toyourself. And was it at this
moment, like, what helped youidentify as a perfectionist and
(10:35):
to start recovering from it.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (10:37):
So I knew perfectionism was there. But I,
it was really more of thisreally vicious inner critic that
was telling me I wasn't goodenough, that said, my family
would be better off without me.
And that was the first thingthat I really dealt with was
befriending this inner voicethat I had. And really all sorts
(11:01):
of practices. And, and this ledme down to, I would say, an
awareness of this is not justme, it's all perfectionists have
this super critical inner voicethat tells us we're not good
(11:23):
enough.
Michael Kithcart (11:26):
It makes sense because, you know, I talk with
clients a lot about just gettingthe power of your thoughts, and
getting your thoughts to workfor you, instead of letting them
work against you. So if you are,like, identifying some of the
signs, the "you might be aperfectionist if"...
Unknown (11:49):
You might be a perfectionist, if you want to
get everything, right. You wanteverybody else to get
everything, right. You wantthings to be perfect, whatever
perfect means to you. And, okay,because it isn't exceptionally
high standards alone. That isthe definition of perfectionist.
(12:13):
It's also the meaning that wegive to mistakes, that when we
strive for perfection, but wedon't hit it. It doesn't mean
oh, that's information. We'vegot lessons learned. We see
failures, as I'm a failure,right? We see mistakes as an
(12:36):
assault to our self worth.
Instead of let's take a learningmindset. Wow. And for the
longest time, I thought myhusband was so wrong. He would
read instructions or he'd getenough research and he do
something and he'd say, Okay,let's start it. And then he
would make mistake and go, Oh,that was interesting. Okay,
(12:58):
well, I won't do that again. Andthen he'll move on. And I was
like, Listen, if you would just,you know, read more research
more than you get it rightfirst, and we wouldn't have to
like, do this over again. Justlisten to me, right?
Michael Kithcart (13:17):
That worked for you.
Elizabeth Onyeabo (13:19):
Perfectionist talking, okay. And, and it was
funny, because when I said,Okay, so here's the thing as a
perfectionist, we, we have thesehigh standards, and then when we
don't meet them, we beatourselves up over it. And so my
husband said to me, like, howcome you don't consider me
(13:42):
perfectionist? I have highstandards. And I said, Yeah, you
have high standards, but youdon't beat yourself up over them
when you don't hit them. And hegoes, Yeah, why would I do that?
Why would I do that? I wouldanyone do that? Well, that's
what comes along withperfectionism.
Michael Kithcart (14:02):
The piece that you brought up to that, that
when something doesn't go right,that it gets internalized to
being that therefore then I'mnot right is very much of like
that distinguishing part thatBrene Brown does between shame
and guilt of you know, somethingthis this was a bad behavior or
(14:24):
I am bad and that shame part. Sothere's a lot of shame attached
to perfectionism is what I heardout of that.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (14:31):
Oh, yeah.
And by the way, why do you thinkBrene Brown got to be such an
expert on Shane
Michael Kithcart (14:40):
Years of self reflection
Elizabeth Onyeabor (14:47):
She's a perfectionist. That's my
understanding. So you might youmight be perfectionist, like
some of the other things thatcome along with trying to make
everything perfect is trying toplease everybody saying yes,
when you're already overwhelmedwith stuff. You know, we are
people pleasers, and it's almostlike we have a magnet when
(15:11):
somebody says, I need avolunteer me. Wait, why am I
raising my hand? Okay. And, and,you know, lots of boundary
issues with people pleasing andtrying to get things done and,
and very, very achievementoriented.
Michael Kithcart (15:33):
Well, and, and I talk a lot about the
difference between achievementand high performance. And that
the part about achievement, Ithink people get, they get
attached to it, right, becauseit serves them in some, in some
way, shape and form, because ithelps them get to success. Like
(15:54):
we're all everybody listening isachiever. You know, I'm a
recovering achiever, you're arecovering achiever, right, and
because it got us to a certainlevel of success, but it's in
singular pursuit, and it can,and it can really be exhausting
and wear you out. And so, I'minterested in hearing, like, how
(16:21):
you start to release yourselffrom perfectionism, because that
I also feel is aligned with highperformance, where you actually
can have ongoing levels ofsustainable growth. But the key
is that you do that while you'remaintaining well being and
positive relationships. So thatwell, being peace, I think is so
connected to perfectionism. AndI'd love your thoughts on that,
(16:45):
and kind of how you see theshift happening.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (16:48):
Yeah, so I have a step by step method that
I walk people through. Thatstarts with the perfectionist
mindset and awareness of what itis how we approach things that
we do have a unique perspectivein the way that we look at
things are trying to makeeverything perfect. And this is
(17:10):
what affects us with this a whatI call the all or nothing
mentality, like it either has tobe 150% or not going to do it at
all. And then we get stuck innot doing it and the 150% gets
us overwhelmed. So it's abouthitting that sweet spot, which I
call focused flow. And thatfocus flow is really where our
(17:34):
true superpower is. The secondone is excellent results. And
this is really about dealingwith the mindset of excellence,
versus perfect, becauseexcellence is still a very high
standard. I'm not tellinganybody to let go of high
(17:56):
standards, I'm telling them tolet go of something that is
unachievable, and I'll talkabout the and achievable in a
minute. The third one isresults. And this is this has to
do with procrastination, which Iknow you want to get into. And
and the fourth one is aboutforgiveness. And that's X, you
(18:18):
know, this is deals with thatinner critic, or that inner
voice that could be our innerfriend. And that follows up with
empathy and self compassion. Andthen connection with the full
self, which deals withboundaries. And then the seventh
one is taking time to celebrate.
And if you take all of those andmake an acronym out of them,
they spell perfect. And thereason for that was
Michael Kithcart (18:43):
brilliant.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (18:45):
Yeah, well, I like acronyms that helped me
when I was cramming for tests,you know, when I was
procrastinating in school, andand the thing is, I want people
to know that they're alreadyperfect. They don't need to
strive to be perfect. You wereborn worthy. You were born good
enough. You're already perfect.
Michael Kithcart (19:05):
That's such an important message for everybody
to hear. Like, people can't hearthat enough. Yeah, I love that.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (19:13):
yeah, there's nothing wrong. We're not
trying to fix. Okay, nothingwrong. We're just not trying to
fix it.
Michael Kithcart (19:20):
I want to talk about because I thought it was
really interesting. When you andI were talking earlier about
there are actually differenttypes of perfectionist there. I
think there's three differentkinds his or three types that
you really focus on. I know youtouched on probably already
touched on it a little bit, butjust identify because maybe this
(19:41):
will help some people that arelistening. If they're not,
they're wondering, they're stillwondering, I might be a
perfectionist if Yeah, how howdoes it show up in those ways?
Elizabeth Onyeabor (19:51):
Okay, so there's the three types are self
oriented, which is what I'mprimarily talking about here.
That's where you look In Wordand say, I expected this of
myself, when I don't need it,I'd beat myself up, I don't feel
good enough. And the second typeis other oriented perfectionist,
(20:17):
I expect other people to geteverything right. And you don't,
you can be one or all or anycombination of these. I had the
trifecta, okay. So expect myselfto be perfect, I expected other
people to be perfect. And thethird one is socially oriented.
So I thought other peopleexpected me to be perfect, too.
(20:40):
And this, of socially orientedor perfectionism has really
reached almost epidemicproportions in the younger
generation now with Instagram,and Snapchat, and all that kind
of thing. Because there's somuch pressure to look, you know,
(21:01):
outwardly a certain way. So weexpect there's a social pressure
of how we, we think societythinks we should be, yeah. When
you can,
Michael Kithcart (21:14):
I think just any kind of self reflection at
all can you can conjure up? Iknow, I can lots of moments
where there's all three at play.
But in the moment, I wouldn'tsay that I was always aware of
that,
Elizabeth Onyeabor (21:28):
right? And so what happens is, you know, we
may put the standards inourselves and say, and say, Oh,
but I don't make I don't put thestandards on other people sure
about that. Because I know thatas a leader, I would say, Oh,
well, this is what I do. But Idon't expect you but you know
what, I did kind of expect awhole lot out of my team. And do
(21:52):
you know, the best team I everhad? Well, they were all
perfectionist. And guess what,one by one, we all got
completely overwhelmed. And weleft the company, because we
were constantly working 150miles an hour?
Michael Kithcart (22:13):
Yes. Well, I wonder too, with the pandemic,
how that has added exacerbatedthe perfectionist, because now
like, it's almost like everybodyadded three extra jobs to the
list.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (22:30):
Oh, I can't, I mean, I haven't read the
research on it. But I can justtell you that from my
understanding of what happens,it has just push those
perfectionist pressures up skyhigh. Because, you know, now we
(22:50):
have to look perfect done zoom.
And we have to keep the kidsquiet and the dog can't be
barking. And we have, we have tohave a constant reminder of all
the housework that we're notdoing while we're trying to do
our other stuff, or the yardwork or you know, whatever it is
that, you know, you'reresponsible for in your
(23:10):
household, and the kids school.
So all of a sudden parents arealso the teachers. So I haven't
had really to deal with thataspect of it, because my kids
are grown. And I was doing a lotof remote work anyway before the
(23:31):
pandemic. And but I can imaginethe intense pressure. And that's
going to really trigger theperfectionist because when we
have a lot of stress, or we'reexpanding outside our comfort
zone, those traits and behaviorsare going to pop back up.
Michael Kithcart (23:50):
I mentioned in my intro about it can also show
up as procrastination. Sopeople's excuse for not getting
something started as well. Iwant to get it perfect first. So
how in your work? Are those twointertwined?
Elizabeth Onyeabor (24:09):
Yeah, so here's some really interesting
information because researchershave different takes on it. But
I base my procrastination workand what I work with my clients
on from this 10 year metaanalysis study that was done by
the University of Calgary andthere was some fascinating
(24:30):
outcomes from this undated 10sof 1000s of people on
procrastination. And what theydiscovered is that about 20% of
everybody is a chronicprocrastinator, and about 95% of
everybody procrastinatesoccasionally, and that
(24:52):
perfectionists don't actuallyprocrastinate any more than the
general population. However,Yeah, stunning, huh? Yeah.
Here's the kicker though.
perfectionists worry aboutprocrastination more.
Michael Kithcart (25:11):
Oh, so they actually spend a lot more energy
in that churn and burn of like,cuz they're aware of it. And
it's bothering them.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (25:22):
We're beating ourselves up over it
because we're so achievementoriented. Yeah. As we're getting
our value our self esteem, it'sall about what we can
accomplish, because we're tryingto get a sense of accomplishment
that is eluding us. Yes.
Michael Kithcart (25:42):
I hate that.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (25:45):
Oh, oh, good. See, that is the number
one myth of perfectionism. Thatthen that gap of not feeling
good enough. Okay, the numberone myth. And, and I need to
connect the mindset with thistoo, because it's really mind
(26:07):
blowing. Okay. So we think isperfectionists that, okay, I set
a high standard. Oh, dear, Ididn't meet that high standard.
And then there's a gap of notgood enough. And we beat
ourselves up over it. If by somemiracle, we actually hit that
super high standard that we set,what do we say to ourselves? Oh,
(26:32):
that was too easy. Or oh, thatwas luck. Or I could have done
more, I could have set a higherbar.
Michael Kithcart (26:42):
I expect I expected to do that. I, of
course, I
Elizabeth Onyeabor (26:46):
expected to do that. That was no big deal
now. And we create a not goodenough gap. Now we don't do this
on purpose. It's subconscious.
Because it's some miliar, eventhough it's uncomfortable. But
we're used to that not goodenough gap. And this is why the
(27:12):
number one myth is we setourselves up for this no one
situation with our highstandards and never feeling like
we're meeting them or if we domeet them, then we we basically
shift the goalposts we alreadymade the going like oh, we can
(27:33):
go further. And, and we're nevergoing to fill that with
achievements, that that not goodenough gap is never going to be
filled with what we accomplish,or what we achieve or what we
do. It's all about human beings,not human doing.
Michael Kithcart (27:55):
Yes. Yes, it is. Well, I love to that, you
know, and your seven practices,the stopping down and
celebrating, it's a really bigcore message that I have in my
work to it, it's so importantthat the acknowledgement occurs,
right? And that, that there'scelebration even in the progress
(28:18):
the journey that be so that yourbrain can acknowledge or can get
the signal that like, Hey, I'mnow here, you know, this, this
is motivating. I'm gonna keepgoing. And so for you, when you
and your practices, the value,and the need to celebrate is
(28:39):
important, maybe even more sofor perfectionist because why?
Like, how does that? How doesthat fit in with your work?
Elizabeth Onyeabor (28:47):
Yeah, absolutely. So taking time to
celebrate is my my seventhpractice the seven powerful
practices for perfectionist,which we'll share with everybody
who's listening. And the thingis that we don't take time to
celebrate because we eitherdon't feel like it was good
(29:07):
enough. Or how well you know,anybody can do it. It was
expected. I mean, I rememberwhen I was in high school, and I
was invited to this big awarddinner. I did not even invite my
parents. I just told my mom todrop me off at school that
night. And when she said oh, sowhat's going on tonight? Anyway,
(29:30):
I said, oh, there's an awarddinner, you know? And she's
like, why didn't you invite me?
I was like, Why didn't I inviteher? Oh, cuz Hello,
perfectionist. I mean, lookingback now I know exactly why I
just thought it was no big dealI was not celebrating was
expected of me. I expected it ofme. So taking time to celebrate
(29:53):
progress, not perfect.
perfection. So practice makesprogress. And let's celebrate
the progress toward it. Like Ihad a client who came home one
day and said, You know what Iput on my exercise clothes
today. I didn't actuallyexercise, but woohoo, I am
(30:15):
celebrating that progress.
Because if we look back a fewweeks ago, I didn't even get,
you know, this is the farthestI've got sense, right. So I'm
gonna celebrate getting theworkout clothes on, because the
next step may be actuallyworking out,
Michael Kithcart (30:32):
right? Yes, it's those micro steps, like
breaking things down to the, tothe most simplest effort. Like,
if there's resistance from thebeginning of taking an action,
people are less likely to takeit right. So if you just make it
so simple, like just like yourclient, just put your exercise
clothes on, eventually, you'regoing to want to put the shoes
(30:55):
on, eventually, you're going towant to walk around the block,
eventually, you know, some, someother desires gonna take hold,
and you'll get that next littlestep.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (31:06):
Oh, yeah.
And by the way, she entered ahalf marathon. So okay, you
know, she celebrated these stepson them, whoo. So, the thing is
that as perfectionist, we havethis all or nothing mentality.
So it will be, and that's thatzero, or 150 I was talking
about. So it's like, gotta beperfect, or 150%. Or we got to
(31:27):
go 150 miles an hour. Like, wehave to earn everything, we have
to work so hard, or we don'twant to do it at all. We don't
even want to start and we'restuck. Because we're afraid it's
not going to be perfect. And wedon't want to fail, we can take
take time to celebrate simplesteps like you say it, it
relieves a lot of the pressure.
(31:49):
And it keeps us in that focusflow.
Michael Kithcart (31:51):
Love that. So it is part of the focused flow,
when How do you help peoplebreak from procrastination
because you have the sevenpractices. So you're helping
people kind of break out of thatperfectionist? Mold, right?
Yeah, then you also want toencourage to take imperfect
(32:13):
action, right to, to kind ofbreak free from that stalling
that they might be doing.
Because I can't imagine how it'sgoing to be done perfectly. So
what's the pairing so to speakthat comes with that?
Elizabeth Onyeabor (32:27):
That study that I mentioned earlier
University of Calgary, well, Ihad digested a whole bunch of
research and I was like, Okay,so there's four main reasons why
everybody who procrastinateprocrastinate, the first one is
belief. The next one isimportance. The third one is
(32:48):
reward. And the fourth one isdeadline. And it can be any one
or combination of these fourthings for why we procrastinate.
So I spell them bird belief,importance reward deadline,
well, these cage ourproductivity.
Michael Kithcart (33:07):
But as you just tie that all
Elizabeth Onyeabor (33:09):
together, I'm in a bird cage. But if you
want to fly, then you focus onpositive outcomes. I'll make it
likable carbon into chunks, likeI hate doing housework. So I
either crank music or I seen orwhatever to make it likable. And
(33:30):
why is saying yes to theprogress. So this taking time to
celebrate and saying yes to theprogress and noticing that about
ourselves and appreciating it ispart of overcoming the
procrastination. Because we cansee that we're taking steps
toward our goal, because asperfectionist, we don't give
(33:51):
ourselves enough credit for theprogress because we're looking
at that main goal. And then thethe issue is that even when we
hit that goal, we're like, ah,that didn't work out wasn't good
enough. Right.
Michael Kithcart (34:02):
Right. I love that. So how does, how would you
say, for leaders in particular,because that's who you work
with? How does letting go ofperfectionism actually helped
them win?
Elizabeth Onyeabor (34:20):
So that was a loaded question. Because the
reality is, at this point,nobody wants to let go of
perfectionism or being aperfectionist because it's part
of identity. What we want to letgo of is the pressure that we
feel to be perfect. We want tolet go of the not feeling good
(34:42):
enough. We want to let go of theoverwhelm. We want to let go of
the boundaries that we feel likewe can't assert. That's what we
want to let go of. And so what Itend to help my leaders with is,
first is awareness. As of howthis is impacting their lives,
(35:02):
not just at work, but also athome, because I remember that I
was talking with one of my Csuite clients, and they were
like, I can't believe just thefirst conversation, I started
looking around at how I was notonly leading but parenting, and
(35:22):
the pressure I must be puttingon my team, and my kids and my
spouse. Yeah. So letting go ofthe things that basically, SAP
our superpower is what I focuson. You can continue to call
(35:44):
your perfectionist, you cancontinue to have super high
expectations totally fine. Butlet's work on feeling good
enough that your, your best isalready good enough. And you are
already good enough. And let'sfocus on feeling that way. And
(36:08):
the way that and it sounds kindof like, Oh, I just want world
peace. But the reality is toclose that gap of not good
enough, is not throughachievement, that it's through
expanding our self love.
Michael Kithcart (36:28):
Really, when it all comes down to it, isn't
it? That that's what we're alleverything boils down to self
love. If you can't get yourselfto that place of liking yourself
of loving yourself. Thechallenges will always be great.
But I will just say that it wassuper annoying for me to figure
(36:49):
that out.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (36:50):
Because I mean it just kind of sound like
Oh, yes. And I you know, likeI'm, I'm a beauty pageant
contestant and I just want worldpeace. I just want to get
everybody self love. Well, butthe reality is that, you know,
and I can hear people saying,well, I love myself. Yes, you
do. The thing is as aperfectionist, do you love your
(37:14):
whole imperfect self? Do youlove every mistake you've made?
Have you forgiven yourself, forwhat you deem mistakes or
failures. That process takes awhile my friend. But that's what
I help people do. Forgiveness isa huge part of it. Because as I
(37:35):
told you in the beginning, melaying on the kitchen floor
feeling like I had failed.
Forgiveness was my way out. Andnow, you know, my third book is
all about how I healed my momguilt. And by the way, moms
don't have a corner on theparent guilt trap. Dad's have
guilt, too. I wrote a book aboutit called the light within
(38:01):
freedom through forgiveness.
Michael Kithcart (38:10):
Yes, I see that I see that at in my home.
There's a lot of it. It'ssilent. Sometimes, but it's
absolutely their own.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (38:22):
Most parent guilt is silent. It's a secret
If you wanted to leave thelistener, audience with one
shame. But what I've noticed is,when I started talking about my
own, I would have other parentstell me some of theirs. And
what's phenomenal is I've hadeven interviewers who have said,
Wow, I've never shared this withanyone before. But this is my
(38:47):
you know, this is what I feelguilty about as a parent, and
it's plagued me for a long time.
But here's the beautiful thingin my forgiveness journey was
that when I became vulnerableand expressed, what I was going
through with my family, andapologized for things and we
(39:08):
discuss things, I discoveredthat I was not the only one who
felt responsible for a specificincident. And by talking about
it, it is the other people'sburdens, too.
(39:31):
nugget, or one piece of advice,or just here's one, one thing
you could just start to focus onor notice or do
Befriend that inner voice,because that is critical and as
vicious as it can get. It reallydoesn't intend to harm us. It
(39:51):
took me a long time to realizethis. It's he or she thinks
they're protecting us and Soit's kind of like a petulant
little child who doesn't feellistened to. Well, if you're not
going to listen to me, then I'mjust going to say nasty things
(40:12):
to you. So we can begin to dothat in a safe way, bit by bit,
and I relate it to like steppinginto a kiddie pool. Don't try to
surf the ocean of emotion withyour inner voice, especially if
it's really viciously criticalright now. Just start taking
(40:33):
steps to say, Okay, what do youwhat are you trying to protect
me from and realize that you canask this inner voice to speak to
you like he or she would goodbest friend. So, so if we make a
(40:55):
mistake, instead of saying, Whata loser Oh my God, I'm such an
idiot. Ah, is that what my deargood friend would say to me?
Michael Kithcart (41:09):
I called the positive self Speak, speak it
into existence, the positiveversion, in present tense, as if
you already are even if you'renot fully feeling it in the
moment, it will start to makethat shift. Elizabeth, what are
you a champion of?
Elizabeth Onyeabor (41:29):
Well, I would say I'm a champion for
self love. Honestly, that is mycore. That's my mission. You
know, I want a million or moreperfectionists before my
lifetime, and to have really,truly expanded their self love
(41:51):
in a way that they know it'slasting, and will continue for
ever. That's great.
Michael Kithcart (42:00):
And you give so many great tips and research
and just there's so much more,because I've benefited from
having a couple of conversationswith you. So how can people
follow you and stay up on allyour latest research and
offerings and books?
Elizabeth Onyeabor (42:19):
So I'm on Instagram and Facebook and or
the other ones? Oh, LinkedIn,LinkedIn is Twitter, and I post
at least on a weekly basis. Andif you download some of my gifts
(42:40):
like the seven powerfulpractices for perfectionist
every week, I give tips. And mycurrent theme now is around
productivity. So
Michael Kithcart (42:52):
great. Thank you so much for sharing your
personal story. How you'rehelping perfectionist around the
world. I'm really appreciateyour time. I learned a lot
today.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (43:02):
Thank you.
It's been my pleasure.
Michael Kithcart (43:05):
Wouldn't it be great to accomplish your goals
with more energy, joy and senseof calm given the tools and
community you've been seekingfor more satisfying success
through champion you groupcoaching, join other business
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on high performance topics thatwill move forward faster with
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(43:27):
by investing in yourself andyour future through champion you
will see details in the shownotes or go to
michaelwkithcart.com/group
Welcome to champions of risk a podcast that
explores all aspects of highperformance and ways to navigate
uncertainty so that you have thetools and resources to win your
way in business and in life. Iwanted to unpack perfectionism
because it shows up a lot in mycoaching practice, and it's
usually usually comes in theform of an explanation as to why
(00:27):
someone is not moving forward onsomething that they said that
they wanted to get accomplished.
That sounds a lot likeprocrastination. So when I
looked a little bit deeper intoprocrastination, I discovered
that while there are severaldifferent types of
procrastinators, perfectionistswere at the top of the list. So
there is a lot of informationand instead of me trying to
(00:52):
figure it out, I did thebrilliant thing. I enlisted an
expert Elizabeth Onyeabor is aleading international expert on
perfectionist leaders and highachievers as the founder of
inner ingenuity and habitualhappiness. She coaches leaders
read, ready to move forward withease, be their best and achieve
unstoppable results. Elizabethhas guided both individual and
(01:16):
organizational transformationsaround the world for more than
25 years, and has been featuredon ABC, CBS, NBC, the Boston
Herald The list goes on. She isalso an award winning Best
selling author and poet. SoElizabeth, welcome to the
champions of risk Podcast. I'mso excited to have you here.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (01:39):
Thank you so much, Michael. It's exciting to
be here.
Michael Kithcart (01:43):
Well, I'm just gonna dig in How is your
relationship with perfectionism?
Elizabeth Onyeabor (01:52):
For me today, the relationship with
perfectionism is that I wouldsay that I'm no longer a
practicing perfectionist. Okay,so, and I gotta say, I struggled
a little bit with what do I callmyself now, really, because I
don't meet the definition ofperfectionist. But all of us who
(02:15):
have really worked in the selfdevelopment area, we know that
it's not something that you say,oh, okay, I've checked that off
my list. I've checked that offmy list. I've checked that off
my list, that's never going tohappen again, crappy, we know
that. When we expand our comfortzone, these traits and behaviors
(02:37):
pop up again. And so while I'mnot practicing perfectionism,
it's something that continues tobe a part of my identity. And I
have a lot greater awareness andtools to deal with that striving
to be perfect. Okay,
Michael Kithcart (02:59):
What was that moment in your life? Or that
moment in time? When you realizethat you actually were a
perfectionist? Did you gothrough a period of time where
you denied it? Or was it a fullembrace? And you were like a
badge of honor?
Elizabeth Onyeabor (03:18):
Well, I gotta tell you, I've worn
perfectionism like a badge ofhonor for as long as I can
remember, I also hit it as abrand of shame. But I didn't see
you know, I didn't let peoplesee that part of me because I
was trying to appear perfect.
But that's, that's the thingwith perfectionism is this
(03:40):
duality of it's, you know, we'dlike our high standards, we
don't want to let go of our highstandards. It's what makes us
right. But it's also what breaksus. It's like our kryptonite. So
it has this duality, and I'lltalk about that in a little
while, but there was always thisunderstanding that I was a
(04:02):
perfectionist and like some ofthe people you coach, it was my
excuse sometimes. Oh, well, I'ma little bit of a perfectionist.
Yeah, well, nobody's a littlebit of a perfectionist, you're
you're perfectionist, you meetthe definition, you don't meet
the definition. So it's justthat it shows it doesn't
necessarily show up the same wayin everything, which is why we
(04:26):
say I'm a little bit of aperfectionist, but I would say
the catalyzing moment was whenperfectionism almost killed me.
And in a strange way, it savedmy life too.
Michael Kithcart (04:45):
Okay, we have to, we have to unpack that.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (04:51):
So here I was wearing my perfectionism as
a badge of honor. All theseyears I called myself a high
achiever. Ever I was driven. Iwas, you know, in management.
And I got to this point I callit my midlife meltdown, trying
to be the perfect everything.
The perfect boss, the perfectwife, the perfect friend, but
(05:13):
most of all, the perfect mom.
And I knew I was none of thosethings. I never felt good
enough. And I was chasingachievement after achievement
after achievement and stillnever feeling good enough until
(05:33):
my midlife meltdown, and I foundmyself wailing crumpled on my
kitchen floor. And in thatmoment, I was sure that I never
would be good enough. And I, Ireally don't remember exactly
how I got up off the kitchenfloor. But I do know that I
(05:54):
walked over to my computer, andI was looking for the perfect
way to end the pain. And theproblem was, there is no perfect
way to end the pain, at leastfrom what I researched. That was
like, Okay, well, I'm just insuch pain, emotional turmoil.
(06:15):
And I looked at all thestatistics. And it's like, first
of all, if I'm going to do it,I'm going to do it. What I'm
going to do it right. Okay,
Michael Kithcart (06:25):
so now we are talking about you deciding that
you didn't want to be on theearth anymore.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (06:30):
Oh, yes, we're talking about suicidal
research.
Michael Kithcart (06:34):
So you even wanted to end your life
perfectly.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (06:38):
I wanted to end my life perfectly. Yeah, my
imperfect life. I wanted toimperfectly you can do see the
irony there, right. I mean, Idon't want to make light of
this. But there is so much ironyto it. And it's so indicative of
what happens with us asperfectionist, because there is
(07:00):
such back and forth and duality.
And so I was looking for, well,like, Could I go to sleep
forever, you know, like, I waslooking at all these things. And
I looked at the statistics, andthe statistics were appalling.
So and what had happened is thatmost of this statistics showed
that people who try to end theirlives are not successful, and
(07:21):
actually can cause a lot moreproblems. And I thought, Oh,
great, like, so I'm gonna failit that too. I mean, like, that
was just too much. So that was,that was the moment of, I would
say rock bottom, where care Ithought, you know, perfectionism
(07:45):
was crushing me so much that Ijust, I wanted out of life. And
at the same time, there was noperfect way to do it. So it's
cut the text in between.
Michael Kithcart (08:01):
And that was enough for you to realize that
maybe there was another option.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (08:05):
Yeah. So luckily for me, I went to sleep
just for the night, not forforever, because I had intended
and had a lot of conversationswith my, my family. So they
really, because I left thewebsite up, by the way, so they
actually saw what was going onin my mind that I hadn't
(08:26):
conveyed. And there's nowherebut up when you hit rock bottom.
And so I, I progressed. And ittook some years, actually, for
me to realize that it was tryingto be the perfect XYZ you fill
in the blank and make everythingperfect. That really just was at
(08:53):
the root of it.
Michael Kithcart (08:54):
Were you already in the type of work that
you were doing? Were you alreadyin professional development at
that time?
Elizabeth Onyeabor (09:07):
I've been coaching leaders for a long
time, because my background ishuman resources. And so I've
been the internal resource thateverybody goes to. So it's a
it's almost like being theinternal social worker in a way.
And so I thought I had done alot of self development. In
fact, I had checked all thesethings off my list, you see,
(09:28):
because I had this idea thatthat was something you know, I
fixed that I fixed that. But atthe time that I reached my rock
bottom, I had stopped all of thepractices that had really made
me feel good. One by one, I hadjust kind of sunk back into old
(09:51):
patterns and practices. And theissue was that I was so
achievement oriented. I waskeeping myself busy. I didn't
even know that I had beensuffering from chronic
depression for decades, until Iwas no longer going 150 miles an
(10:13):
hour, constantly,
Michael Kithcart (10:15):
yes, that often happens, right? Like you
have to, you have to get quiet,you have to slow down, to have a
lot of things be revealed toyourself. And was it at this
moment, like, what helped youidentify as a perfectionist and
(10:35):
to start recovering from it.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (10:37):
So I knew perfectionism was there. But I,
it was really more of thisreally vicious inner critic that
was telling me I wasn't goodenough, that said, my family
would be better off without me.
And that was the first thingthat I really dealt with was
befriending this inner voicethat I had. And really all sorts
(11:01):
of practices. And, and this ledme down to, I would say, an
awareness of this is not justme, it's all perfectionists have
this super critical inner voicethat tells us we're not good
(11:23):
enough.
Michael Kithcart (11:26):
It makes sense because, you know, I talk with
clients a lot about just gettingthe power of your thoughts, and
getting your thoughts to workfor you, instead of letting them
work against you. So if you are,like, identifying some of the
signs, the "you might be aperfectionist if"...
Unknown (11:49):
You might be a perfectionist, if you want to
get everything, right. You wanteverybody else to get
everything, right. You wantthings to be perfect, whatever
perfect means to you. And, okay,because it isn't exceptionally
high standards alone. That isthe definition of perfectionist.
(12:13):
It's also the meaning that wegive to mistakes, that when we
strive for perfection, but wedon't hit it. It doesn't mean
oh, that's information. We'vegot lessons learned. We see
failures, as I'm a failure,right? We see mistakes as an
(12:36):
assault to our self worth.
Instead of let's take a learningmindset. Wow. And for the
longest time, I thought myhusband was so wrong. He would
read instructions or he'd getenough research and he do
something and he'd say, Okay,let's start it. And then he
would make mistake and go, Oh,that was interesting. Okay,
(12:58):
well, I won't do that again. Andthen he'll move on. And I was
like, Listen, if you would just,you know, read more research
more than you get it rightfirst, and we wouldn't have to
like, do this over again. Justlisten to me, right?
Michael Kithcart (13:17):
That worked for you.
Elizabeth Onyeabo (13:19):
Perfectionist talking, okay. And, and it was
funny, because when I said,Okay, so here's the thing as a
perfectionist, we, we have thesehigh standards, and then when we
don't meet them, we beatourselves up over it. And so my
husband said to me, like, howcome you don't consider me
(13:42):
perfectionist? I have highstandards. And I said, Yeah, you
have high standards, but youdon't beat yourself up over them
when you don't hit them. And hegoes, Yeah, why would I do that?
Why would I do that? I wouldanyone do that? Well, that's
what comes along withperfectionism.
Michael Kithcart (14:02):
The piece that you brought up to that, that
when something doesn't go right,that it gets internalized to
being that therefore then I'mnot right is very much of like
that distinguishing part thatBrene Brown does between shame
and guilt of you know, somethingthis this was a bad behavior or
(14:24):
I am bad and that shame part. Sothere's a lot of shame attached
to perfectionism is what I heardout of that.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (14:31):
Oh, yeah.
And by the way, why do you thinkBrene Brown got to be such an
expert on Shane
Michael Kithcart (14:40):
Years of self reflection
Elizabeth Onyeabor (14:47):
She's a perfectionist. That's my
understanding. So you might youmight be perfectionist, like
some of the other things thatcome along with trying to make
everything perfect is trying toplease everybody saying yes,
when you're already overwhelmedwith stuff. You know, we are
people pleasers, and it's almostlike we have a magnet when
(15:11):
somebody says, I need avolunteer me. Wait, why am I
raising my hand? Okay. And, and,you know, lots of boundary
issues with people pleasing andtrying to get things done and,
and very, very achievementoriented.
Michael Kithcart (15:33):
Well, and, and I talk a lot about the
difference between achievementand high performance. And that
the part about achievement, Ithink people get, they get
attached to it, right, becauseit serves them in some, in some
way, shape and form, because ithelps them get to success. Like
(15:54):
we're all everybody listening isachiever. You know, I'm a
recovering achiever, you're arecovering achiever, right, and
because it got us to a certainlevel of success, but it's in
singular pursuit, and it can,and it can really be exhausting
and wear you out. And so, I'minterested in hearing, like, how
(16:21):
you start to release yourselffrom perfectionism, because that
I also feel is aligned with highperformance, where you actually
can have ongoing levels ofsustainable growth. But the key
is that you do that while you'remaintaining well being and
positive relationships. So thatwell, being peace, I think is so
connected to perfectionism. AndI'd love your thoughts on that,
(16:45):
and kind of how you see theshift happening.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (16:48):
Yeah, so I have a step by step method that
I walk people through. Thatstarts with the perfectionist
mindset and awareness of what itis how we approach things that
we do have a unique perspectivein the way that we look at
things are trying to makeeverything perfect. And this is
(17:10):
what affects us with this a whatI call the all or nothing
mentality, like it either has tobe 150% or not going to do it at
all. And then we get stuck innot doing it and the 150% gets
us overwhelmed. So it's abouthitting that sweet spot, which I
call focused flow. And thatfocus flow is really where our
(17:34):
true superpower is. The secondone is excellent results. And
this is really about dealingwith the mindset of excellence,
versus perfect, becauseexcellence is still a very high
standard. I'm not tellinganybody to let go of high
(17:56):
standards, I'm telling them tolet go of something that is
unachievable, and I'll talkabout the and achievable in a
minute. The third one isresults. And this is this has to
do with procrastination, which Iknow you want to get into. And
and the fourth one is aboutforgiveness. And that's X, you
(18:18):
know, this is deals with thatinner critic, or that inner
voice that could be our innerfriend. And that follows up with
empathy and self compassion. Andthen connection with the full
self, which deals withboundaries. And then the seventh
one is taking time to celebrate.
And if you take all of those andmake an acronym out of them,
they spell perfect. And thereason for that was
Michael Kithcart (18:43):
brilliant.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (18:45):
Yeah, well, I like acronyms that helped me
when I was cramming for tests,you know, when I was
procrastinating in school, andand the thing is, I want people
to know that they're alreadyperfect. They don't need to
strive to be perfect. You wereborn worthy. You were born good
enough. You're already perfect.
Michael Kithcart (19:05):
That's such an important message for everybody
to hear. Like, people can't hearthat enough. Yeah, I love that.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (19:13):
yeah, there's nothing wrong. We're not
trying to fix. Okay, nothingwrong. We're just not trying to
fix it.
Michael Kithcart (19:20):
I want to talk about because I thought it was
really interesting. When you andI were talking earlier about
there are actually differenttypes of perfectionist there. I
think there's three differentkinds his or three types that
you really focus on. I know youtouched on probably already
touched on it a little bit, butjust identify because maybe this
(19:41):
will help some people that arelistening. If they're not,
they're wondering, they're stillwondering, I might be a
perfectionist if Yeah, how howdoes it show up in those ways?
Elizabeth Onyeabor (19:51):
Okay, so there's the three types are self
oriented, which is what I'mprimarily talking about here.
That's where you look In Wordand say, I expected this of
myself, when I don't need it,I'd beat myself up, I don't feel
good enough. And the second typeis other oriented perfectionist,
(20:17):
I expect other people to geteverything right. And you don't,
you can be one or all or anycombination of these. I had the
trifecta, okay. So expect myselfto be perfect, I expected other
people to be perfect. And thethird one is socially oriented.
So I thought other peopleexpected me to be perfect, too.
(20:40):
And this, of socially orientedor perfectionism has really
reached almost epidemicproportions in the younger
generation now with Instagram,and Snapchat, and all that kind
of thing. Because there's somuch pressure to look, you know,
(21:01):
outwardly a certain way. So weexpect there's a social pressure
of how we, we think societythinks we should be, yeah. When
you can,
Michael Kithcart (21:14):
I think just any kind of self reflection at
all can you can conjure up? Iknow, I can lots of moments
where there's all three at play.
But in the moment, I wouldn'tsay that I was always aware of
that,
Elizabeth Onyeabor (21:28):
right? And so what happens is, you know, we
may put the standards inourselves and say, and say, Oh,
but I don't make I don't put thestandards on other people sure
about that. Because I know thatas a leader, I would say, Oh,
well, this is what I do. But Idon't expect you but you know
what, I did kind of expect awhole lot out of my team. And do
(21:52):
you know, the best team I everhad? Well, they were all
perfectionist. And guess what,one by one, we all got
completely overwhelmed. And weleft the company, because we
were constantly working 150miles an hour?
Michael Kithcart (22:13):
Yes. Well, I wonder too, with the pandemic,
how that has added exacerbatedthe perfectionist, because now
like, it's almost like everybodyadded three extra jobs to the
list.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (22:30):
Oh, I can't, I mean, I haven't read the
research on it. But I can justtell you that from my
understanding of what happens,it has just push those
perfectionist pressures up skyhigh. Because, you know, now we
(22:50):
have to look perfect done zoom.
And we have to keep the kidsquiet and the dog can't be
barking. And we have, we have tohave a constant reminder of all
the housework that we're notdoing while we're trying to do
our other stuff, or the yardwork or you know, whatever it is
that, you know, you'reresponsible for in your
(23:10):
household, and the kids school.
So all of a sudden parents arealso the teachers. So I haven't
had really to deal with thataspect of it, because my kids
are grown. And I was doing a lotof remote work anyway before the
(23:31):
pandemic. And but I can imaginethe intense pressure. And that's
going to really trigger theperfectionist because when we
have a lot of stress, or we'reexpanding outside our comfort
zone, those traits and behaviorsare going to pop back up.
Michael Kithcart (23:50):
I mentioned in my intro about it can also show
up as procrastination. Sopeople's excuse for not getting
something started as well. Iwant to get it perfect first. So
how in your work? Are those twointertwined?
Elizabeth Onyeabor (24:09):
Yeah, so here's some really interesting
information because researchershave different takes on it. But
I base my procrastination workand what I work with my clients
on from this 10 year metaanalysis study that was done by
the University of Calgary andthere was some fascinating
(24:30):
outcomes from this undated 10sof 1000s of people on
procrastination. And what theydiscovered is that about 20% of
everybody is a chronicprocrastinator, and about 95% of
everybody procrastinatesoccasionally, and that
(24:52):
perfectionists don't actuallyprocrastinate any more than the
general population. However,Yeah, stunning, huh? Yeah.
Here's the kicker though.
perfectionists worry aboutprocrastination more.
Michael Kithcart (25:11):
Oh, so they actually spend a lot more energy
in that churn and burn of like,cuz they're aware of it. And
it's bothering them.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (25:22):
We're beating ourselves up over it
because we're so achievementoriented. Yeah. As we're getting
our value our self esteem, it'sall about what we can
accomplish, because we're tryingto get a sense of accomplishment
that is eluding us. Yes.
Michael Kithcart (25:42):
I hate that.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (25:45):
Oh, oh, good. See, that is the number
one myth of perfectionism. Thatthen that gap of not feeling
good enough. Okay, the numberone myth. And, and I need to
connect the mindset with thistoo, because it's really mind
(26:07):
blowing. Okay. So we think isperfectionists that, okay, I set
a high standard. Oh, dear, Ididn't meet that high standard.
And then there's a gap of notgood enough. And we beat
ourselves up over it. If by somemiracle, we actually hit that
super high standard that we set,what do we say to ourselves? Oh,
(26:32):
that was too easy. Or oh, thatwas luck. Or I could have done
more, I could have set a higherbar.
Michael Kithcart (26:42):
I expect I expected to do that. I, of
course, I
Elizabeth Onyeabor (26:46):
expected to do that. That was no big deal
now. And we create a not goodenough gap. Now we don't do this
on purpose. It's subconscious.
Because it's some miliar, eventhough it's uncomfortable. But
we're used to that not goodenough gap. And this is why the
(27:12):
number one myth is we setourselves up for this no one
situation with our highstandards and never feeling like
we're meeting them or if we domeet them, then we we basically
shift the goalposts we alreadymade the going like oh, we can
(27:33):
go further. And, and we're nevergoing to fill that with
achievements, that that not goodenough gap is never going to be
filled with what we accomplish,or what we achieve or what we
do. It's all about human beings,not human doing.
Michael Kithcart (27:55):
Yes. Yes, it is. Well, I love to that, you
know, and your seven practices,the stopping down and
celebrating, it's a really bigcore message that I have in my
work to it, it's so importantthat the acknowledgement occurs,
right? And that, that there'scelebration even in the progress
(28:18):
the journey that be so that yourbrain can acknowledge or can get
the signal that like, Hey, I'mnow here, you know, this, this
is motivating. I'm gonna keepgoing. And so for you, when you
and your practices, the value,and the need to celebrate is
(28:39):
important, maybe even more sofor perfectionist because why?
Like, how does that? How doesthat fit in with your work?
Elizabeth Onyeabor (28:47):
Yeah, absolutely. So taking time to
celebrate is my my seventhpractice the seven powerful
practices for perfectionist,which we'll share with everybody
who's listening. And the thingis that we don't take time to
celebrate because we eitherdon't feel like it was good
(29:07):
enough. Or how well you know,anybody can do it. It was
expected. I mean, I rememberwhen I was in high school, and I
was invited to this big awarddinner. I did not even invite my
parents. I just told my mom todrop me off at school that
night. And when she said oh, sowhat's going on tonight? Anyway,
(29:30):
I said, oh, there's an awarddinner, you know? And she's
like, why didn't you invite me?
I was like, Why didn't I inviteher? Oh, cuz Hello,
perfectionist. I mean, lookingback now I know exactly why I
just thought it was no big dealI was not celebrating was
expected of me. I expected it ofme. So taking time to celebrate
(29:53):
progress, not perfect.
perfection. So practice makesprogress. And let's celebrate
the progress toward it. Like Ihad a client who came home one
day and said, You know what Iput on my exercise clothes
today. I didn't actuallyexercise, but woohoo, I am
(30:15):
celebrating that progress.
Because if we look back a fewweeks ago, I didn't even get,
you know, this is the farthestI've got sense, right. So I'm
gonna celebrate getting theworkout clothes on, because the
next step may be actuallyworking out,
Michael Kithcart (30:32):
right? Yes, it's those micro steps, like
breaking things down to the, tothe most simplest effort. Like,
if there's resistance from thebeginning of taking an action,
people are less likely to takeit right. So if you just make it
so simple, like just like yourclient, just put your exercise
clothes on, eventually, you'regoing to want to put the shoes
(30:55):
on, eventually, you're going towant to walk around the block,
eventually, you know, some, someother desires gonna take hold,
and you'll get that next littlestep.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (31:06):
Oh, yeah.
And by the way, she entered ahalf marathon. So okay, you
know, she celebrated these stepson them, whoo. So, the thing is
that as perfectionist, we havethis all or nothing mentality.
So it will be, and that's thatzero, or 150 I was talking
about. So it's like, gotta beperfect, or 150%. Or we got to
(31:27):
go 150 miles an hour. Like, wehave to earn everything, we have
to work so hard, or we don'twant to do it at all. We don't
even want to start and we'restuck. Because we're afraid it's
not going to be perfect. And wedon't want to fail, we can take
take time to celebrate simplesteps like you say it, it
relieves a lot of the pressure.
(31:49):
And it keeps us in that focusflow.
Michael Kithcart (31:51):
Love that. So it is part of the focused flow,
when How do you help peoplebreak from procrastination
because you have the sevenpractices. So you're helping
people kind of break out of thatperfectionist? Mold, right?
Yeah, then you also want toencourage to take imperfect
(32:13):
action, right to, to kind ofbreak free from that stalling
that they might be doing.
Because I can't imagine how it'sgoing to be done perfectly. So
what's the pairing so to speakthat comes with that?
Elizabeth Onyeabor (32:27):
That study that I mentioned earlier
University of Calgary, well, Ihad digested a whole bunch of
research and I was like, Okay,so there's four main reasons why
everybody who procrastinateprocrastinate, the first one is
belief. The next one isimportance. The third one is
(32:48):
reward. And the fourth one isdeadline. And it can be any one
or combination of these fourthings for why we procrastinate.
So I spell them bird belief,importance reward deadline,
well, these cage ourproductivity.
Michael Kithcart (33:07):
But as you just tie that all
Elizabeth Onyeabor (33:09):
together, I'm in a bird cage. But if you
want to fly, then you focus onpositive outcomes. I'll make it
likable carbon into chunks, likeI hate doing housework. So I
either crank music or I seen orwhatever to make it likable. And
(33:30):
why is saying yes to theprogress. So this taking time to
celebrate and saying yes to theprogress and noticing that about
ourselves and appreciating it ispart of overcoming the
procrastination. Because we cansee that we're taking steps
toward our goal, because asperfectionist, we don't give
(33:51):
ourselves enough credit for theprogress because we're looking
at that main goal. And then thethe issue is that even when we
hit that goal, we're like, ah,that didn't work out wasn't good
enough. Right.
Michael Kithcart (34:02):
Right. I love that. So how does, how would you
say, for leaders in particular,because that's who you work
with? How does letting go ofperfectionism actually helped
them win?
Elizabeth Onyeabor (34:20):
So that was a loaded question. Because the
reality is, at this point,nobody wants to let go of
perfectionism or being aperfectionist because it's part
of identity. What we want to letgo of is the pressure that we
feel to be perfect. We want tolet go of the not feeling good
(34:42):
enough. We want to let go of theoverwhelm. We want to let go of
the boundaries that we feel likewe can't assert. That's what we
want to let go of. And so what Itend to help my leaders with is,
first is awareness. As of howthis is impacting their lives,
(35:02):
not just at work, but also athome, because I remember that I
was talking with one of my Csuite clients, and they were
like, I can't believe just thefirst conversation, I started
looking around at how I was notonly leading but parenting, and
(35:22):
the pressure I must be puttingon my team, and my kids and my
spouse. Yeah. So letting go ofthe things that basically, SAP
our superpower is what I focuson. You can continue to call
(35:44):
your perfectionist, you cancontinue to have super high
expectations totally fine. Butlet's work on feeling good
enough that your, your best isalready good enough. And you are
already good enough. And let'sfocus on feeling that way. And
(36:08):
the way that and it sounds kindof like, Oh, I just want world
peace. But the reality is toclose that gap of not good
enough, is not throughachievement, that it's through
expanding our self love.
Michael Kithcart (36:28):
Really, when it all comes down to it, isn't
it? That that's what we're alleverything boils down to self
love. If you can't get yourselfto that place of liking yourself
of loving yourself. Thechallenges will always be great.
But I will just say that it wassuper annoying for me to figure
(36:49):
that out.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (36:50):
Because I mean it just kind of sound like
Oh, yes. And I you know, likeI'm, I'm a beauty pageant
contestant and I just want worldpeace. I just want to get
everybody self love. Well, butthe reality is that, you know,
and I can hear people saying,well, I love myself. Yes, you
do. The thing is as aperfectionist, do you love your
(37:14):
whole imperfect self? Do youlove every mistake you've made?
Have you forgiven yourself, forwhat you deem mistakes or
failures. That process takes awhile my friend. But that's what
I help people do. Forgiveness isa huge part of it. Because as I
(37:35):
told you in the beginning, melaying on the kitchen floor
feeling like I had failed.
Forgiveness was my way out. Andnow, you know, my third book is
all about how I healed my momguilt. And by the way, moms
don't have a corner on theparent guilt trap. Dad's have
guilt, too. I wrote a book aboutit called the light within
(38:01):
freedom through forgiveness.
Michael Kithcart (38:10):
Yes, I see that I see that at in my home.
There's a lot of it. It'ssilent. Sometimes, but it's
absolutely their own.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (38:22):
Most parent guilt is silent. It's a secret
If you wanted to leave thelistener, audience with one
shame. But what I've noticed is,when I started talking about my
own, I would have other parentstell me some of theirs. And
what's phenomenal is I've hadeven interviewers who have said,
Wow, I've never shared this withanyone before. But this is my
(38:47):
you know, this is what I feelguilty about as a parent, and
it's plagued me for a long time.
But here's the beautiful thingin my forgiveness journey was
that when I became vulnerableand expressed, what I was going
through with my family, andapologized for things and we
(39:08):
discuss things, I discoveredthat I was not the only one who
felt responsible for a specificincident. And by talking about
it, it is the other people'sburdens, too.
(39:31):
nugget, or one piece of advice,or just here's one, one thing
you could just start to focus onor notice or do
Befriend that inner voice,because that is critical and as
vicious as it can get. It reallydoesn't intend to harm us. It
(39:51):
took me a long time to realizethis. It's he or she thinks
they're protecting us and Soit's kind of like a petulant
little child who doesn't feellistened to. Well, if you're not
going to listen to me, then I'mjust going to say nasty things
(40:12):
to you. So we can begin to dothat in a safe way, bit by bit,
and I relate it to like steppinginto a kiddie pool. Don't try to
surf the ocean of emotion withyour inner voice, especially if
it's really viciously criticalright now. Just start taking
(40:33):
steps to say, Okay, what do youwhat are you trying to protect
me from and realize that you canask this inner voice to speak to
you like he or she would goodbest friend. So, so if we make a
(40:55):
mistake, instead of saying, Whata loser Oh my God, I'm such an
idiot. Ah, is that what my deargood friend would say to me?
Michael Kithcart (41:09):
I called the positive self Speak, speak it
into existence, the positiveversion, in present tense, as if
you already are even if you'renot fully feeling it in the
moment, it will start to makethat shift. Elizabeth, what are
you a champion of?
Elizabeth Onyeabor (41:29):
Well, I would say I'm a champion for
self love. Honestly, that is mycore. That's my mission. You
know, I want a million or moreperfectionists before my
lifetime, and to have really,truly expanded their self love
(41:51):
in a way that they know it'slasting, and will continue for
ever. That's great.
Michael Kithcart (42:00):
And you give so many great tips and research
and just there's so much more,because I've benefited from
having a couple of conversationswith you. So how can people
follow you and stay up on allyour latest research and
offerings and books?
Elizabeth Onyeabor (42:19):
So I'm on Instagram and Facebook and or
the other ones? Oh, LinkedIn,LinkedIn is Twitter, and I post
at least on a weekly basis. Andif you download some of my gifts
(42:40):
like the seven powerfulpractices for perfectionist
every week, I give tips. And mycurrent theme now is around
productivity. So
Michael Kithcart (42:52):
great. Thank you so much for sharing your
personal story. How you'rehelping perfectionist around the
world. I'm really appreciateyour time. I learned a lot
today.
Elizabeth Onyeabor (43:02):
Thank you.
It's been my pleasure.
Michael Kithcart (43:05):
Wouldn't it be great to accomplish your goals
with more energy, joy and senseof calm given the tools and
community you've been seekingfor more satisfying success
through champion you groupcoaching, join other business
and sales professionals eachmonth for interactive sessions
on high performance topics thatwill move forward faster with
more focus and confidence. reacha new level of growth this year
(43:27):
by investing in yourself andyour future through champion you
will see details in the shownotes or go to
michaelwkithcart.com/group
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