February 24, 2025 • 22 mins
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Discover the magic of transforming science classrooms into vibrant hubs of curiosity and exploration with our special guest, Josh Langenberger, a seasoned science educator with over 30 years of experience. By introducing the "two L's" of teaching—love and locality—we explore how educators can captivate students' interests by integrating their passions and local environmental phenomena into the curriculum. This dynamic approach not only makes science relatable but empowers students to realize their potential impact on their communities.
Want to learn more about ChangED? Check out our website at: learn.mciu.org/changed
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
welcome back to change ed change it a podcast on
the road.
We're at the new jersey scienceconvention today in princeton.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
You must be super smart to be in princeton.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yeah, we must be super smart to get here.
There was no exam for us to getin, thank goodness, and we are
learning all about this greatstate that is 10 years ahead of
us when it comes to implementingNGSS.
There's so much here for us tolearn.
I'm your host, andrew Kuhn,education consultant from
Montgomery County IntermediateUnit, and here with me is
Patrice Semecek.
That's it.
(00:39):
You don't do anything.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I work with teachers.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
You work with teachers.
That's a very noble job, thanks.
I would learn more about whatyou can do sometimes.
All right, I gotta, I gottatell you, change that nation.
I'm very excited that we areable to do this podcast.
This is a partnership and afriendship person we're doing it
in person that's really cool.
Yeah, our guest is someone thatwe've created a partnership and
a friendship with for over ayear.
(01:02):
We'd like to introduce joshlangenberger, welcome.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Thank you.
It's a pleasure to be here.
I listen.
I love talking about anythinghaving to do with science, made
a lifetime and a career of it,teaching over 30 years now, so I
just love to get anyopportunity to share my love and
passion with science with otherpeople and hopefully inspire
them along the way.
That's great.
It's a great opportunity for meas well, so thank you for
having me.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I'm glad we're focusing on science and not math
, because you don't look a dayover 27.
So I don't have the 30-yearteaching.
I'm very flattered.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
A little older than that, though.
Not far from retirement,interestingly enough, but I
don't know that I could retirefrom this.
I love this.
It's a theme that we heardtoday.
Is that you know?
I'm here after 30 plus years ofdoing it and I love it?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
I'll tell you it's very clear anytime we talk to
you, whether it's on the phone,whether we are meeting face to
face, your passion reignsthrough and you can tell that
you are so committed to not onlyscience but, let's say, the
transition from how science usedto be taught to kind of this.
We're going to call this NGSSmodel of how do we engage
(02:09):
students in the learning, and Ihave to say there were a lot of
things that really resonatedwith me, but one of them was
that kids aren't bound by therules of science.
I thought that was a veryfascinating thing that you said,
because we as adults have, youknow, guidelines.
We have things that we well,you can't do that because of
this, and can you pull that outa little bit more for me?
Like, where are you going withthat?
Because I was really intriguedby that.
I wrote it down, which means itwas good.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Absolutely so.
You know I'm involved in a lotof different projects.
The example I was using in mypresentation today was about the
pygmy forest down in SouthJersey that you know.
Here we have a sort of abiogeological phenomenon that's
occurring, and scientists havebeen down there and investigated
and can't tell why they triedto pull trees out.
They've studied the soil andall of that.
For those of you that don'tknow, the pygmy forest is just a
(02:47):
forest in the Pine Barrens inwhich the trees don't typically
grow more than about six feettall.
Wonderful investigation, by theway, for students.
And the reason why it's awonderful investigation for
students is because thescientists have already told us
they can't figure out why orwhat the cause of that
specifically is.
And so what a great opportunityfor students to launch in and
begin making their own claimsand exploring them Because, as I
(03:08):
said, they're not bound by therules.
So our geophysicists orgeologists, they all know what
the rules of the game are.
They know how to study theirfield very well.
But you take a group of kidswith just simply curiosity and
they make that.
Well, what if?
It's this right?
The what if, what if, where?
A lot of times when we graduateto our higher degrees of
learning.
We're no longer.
(03:28):
What if it's like this is howright Versus what if?
Let me explain, instead offigure out why, and so students,
you know, are great problemsolvers, and intuitively so, and
so let's have them solve someof those problems.
And I guess we could dive offand say well, this really is one
leading question into what isthe role of a teacher in a
classroom.
(03:49):
Right, because traditionally itwas.
We guide students through thatlearning process.
We take the kids, we introducean idea, we pose the questions
and that leads us to a scriptedcontent.
Great, and then, at the end ofthe day, we're still the
smartest people in the room.
The kids have memorized acouple of things and we feel
good about ourselves.
But should we?
Let's jump instead.
(04:10):
Let's take that question, let'shave the kids come up with the
questions, and from thosequestions come outstanding
claims.
And you're going to travel intoan area.
As an educator, you're notgoing to be safe, and what I
mean by that is educators arevery safe in knowledge that they
know, right, very safe.
But when you start exploringdifferent claims in my classroom
alone I could have 24 differentclaims.
(04:30):
I don't know about all of them,but the great thing is, as an
educator, I don't have to know,because I have scientific
explorers in my classroom andthey're going to tell me
everything I need to know aboutthat topic and, interestingly
enough, within a year or so, I'man expert in that topic.
I don't mention that to the kids, but I still let them come up
with their own questions, leadthem to their own discovery and
(04:52):
a great piece of teaching andmisconception.
Some of them, through theirlearning, discover that what
they've learned or what they'vestated in their claim is a
misconception, and so theycorrect their own learning.
Right, because it's importanttoday, in the world that we live
in, that you are open tolooking at making multiple
observations, determining thevalue of those observations,
infusing them into your ownthought and, if they
(05:12):
differentiate from what youunderstand, be at least
open-minded enough to explorethem as an opportunity, as
something that's different.
And if you find out that yourinformation is wrong, you have
the opportunity to correctyourself.
That's really the true natureof misconception.
Probably a separate podcast,but misconception is another
day went the wrong way.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
It was kind of very clearly like no, no, no, this is
how it works.
You know the right, this is aone-way road where now it
(05:50):
actually seems like you'rebuilding not just a highway with
on-ramps, but there areintersections, there are, you
know, off-ramps there, you know,there's all these ways to get
into it, and the thing thatresonates it sounds like it
doesn't even have to be the samehighway.
Yeah, it's just this.
You're building Again thisinfrastructure, this web of
interacting and moving.
The thing that was resonatingwith me was, in a lot of ways,
that's how kids are taking ininformation.
Right now, as it is, I walk bykids that have on, they have a
(06:12):
playing device, they haveYouTube on the screen and they
have a phone on them at the sametime.
They're taking in all thisinformation.
Not saying that's the right wayto do it, but their brains are
wiring differently than ourswhere before it was, there was
one answer.
There, brains are wiringdifferently than ours, where
before it was, there was oneanswer.
There's one direction to go,and now they're coming to it
from so many different angles.
You're allowing really it's aUDL design.
(06:33):
You're allowing everybody toenter into the space.
Science is where we start.
I loved how you pulled in theconnection of drumline Right and
how you're talking about it.
Science is the most important.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
The most important subject you'll ever learn and it
is.
Without it we wouldn't becertainly here today, right?
So we use that as afoundational understanding of
all other subjects and you know,of course I'm going to say it's
the most important.
I teach science, right?
So it's of course, the mostimportant to me, but you know it
is something I also try toinstill in my children and my
own personal children and mychildren that I see in class
(07:00):
every day as well, and I did aseparate piece with like we
don't teach kids how to reallyask questions, and especially
with, like you were saying aminute ago, where they're given
a lot of this information.
They don't have to come up withit on their own, they're just
given it.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
And they accept it as it is.
They don't even second guess it, right.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
And so you know, a cornerstone of science is
observations.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
We begin with good observations and we just teach
kids to be better observers,Just as a side note for any of
our listeners who think thatNick Cannon is just from the
Masked Singer that Drumline is agreat movie, 20 years old,
right, yeah 20 year old movieMovies existed 20 years ago.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Very curious as to where you're going and why we're
talking about this.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Because Nick Cannon was in Drumline.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yes, I'm aware.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
And we talked about Drumline and the part that we
didn't mention was that Josh hadsaid that he got this idea from
Drumline, because in Drumlineyou would hear them talking to
each different section.
The section leader was sayingwe're the best in the band.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
We're the most important.
Everyone was claiming that theywere the heartbeat of the band,
the most important, and none ofthe sections communicate to
each other.
They were just simply sayingyou know, math class could say
they're the most important.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Quite a metaphor.
Yes, yes, thank you for theclarity, because you know I have
it.
Movies are not my jam.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Okay, could you just tell us about these two L's and
how they work for you and howthey can apply for other
teachers in their profession?
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Absolutely so.
We've all heard the three D'sof science.
We know what they are, we canrecite them, we know standards
and all of that.
But I think there's a moreimportant piece to that was the
two L's, and nobody's ever heardof these things before, as you
said.
You know where did these comefrom?
They were kind of born out ofgiving other presentations to
science teachers and gettingfeedback from my colleagues and
things like that, specificallyscience.
(08:33):
And so the two L's of scienceare, first and foremost, you
have to teach what you love,have to teach what you love, and
I know that there are manyobstacles to that.
You're given a curriculum,you're given content, all of
that but the true foundation ofNGSS or even Steeles, you're
given standards, right Standards.
Nobody specifically told youwhat phenomena you need to teach
(08:57):
those with.
So why aren't you teaching thethings that you love?
I love trees as weird as that isand so I was talking about a
chestnut tree that I grew upwith as a kid and I wondered
where they went, and they wereall gone in New Jersey, and so I
want to know how can I bringthem back, and so I teach kids
about that.
You know, I have a strawberrypatch in my yard.
The birds always take a biteout of my strawberries, so I
(09:19):
teach them how to create astrawberry decoy that you drop
in there to train yourneighborhood birds not to
package your strawberries.
Those are fun.
I'm teaching them like I'mteaching them what I love to do.
Right.
First, just teach what you love,because if you love what you
teach, the kids know and youwant the kids to at least like
(09:39):
science.
But remember the kids willnever enjoy it more than you.
So you're not going to likescience and then necessarily
have a kid love science.
But if you love science, kidswill like science and even if
they don't like science, theystill think it's interesting and
the problem solving or thecritical thing that I'm teaching
in my class is going to helpthem the rest of their life.
But the other part is so thefirst is really love what you
(10:05):
teach, and the second, thesecond L of it, is teach local
phenomena, and there are plentyof great examples of phenomena,
and GSS gives us lots of onlineresources.
As a matter of fact, there's anentire book sold on the idea.
But if you're trying to create acommunity of learners and
you're trying to be inclusive ofall those learners because you
don't know what background orexperience or even what
languages they have, show thekids a picture of something
(10:29):
that's happening around yourschool or in your community and
put them to the task of askingabout it.
When you show a photo and I'veoften said this, photos are a
great equalizer in science, alsoright, because they don't have
a language barrier Show them apicture and have them express to
you what questions do they have, then you have them right,
because science answersquestions.
(10:49):
So now you have them in thescience loop.
Fantastic.
But I think it's important fromthat question that local
phenomena have them begininvestigating it, because their
solution can have real impactlocally.
You know, if you're findingthat all these insects are dying
and the kids say I think allthe insects are dying because of
something and they investigateit, then we can start
legislation to stop spraying ofthat pesticide or whatever it
(11:11):
happens to be Something new tothe environment that wasn't
there before.
You're empowering these kids,you're connecting them to what's
going on locally.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
And letting them see that they can make an impact, no
matter how small.
And that is such a game changer, especially, I think, in our
current culture of kids, wherethings just happen to them and
around them without realizing oreven seeing a path to make any
impact.
When you ask a kid, what isscience?
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Their answer to me should be it's building
connections between the knownand unknown.
That's what we're asking themto do, and it's also a very
empowering tool.
We could do a separate podcaston that one.
It's a very empowering tool,and the segue I made is when you
go to these AI presentations,what is the foundation of all
the algorithms?
All the foundational algorithmsare building connections.
(11:56):
Right, the brain is still thefastest computer on the planet,
but we don't teach kids toreally make connections anymore.
We give them content and theymemorize the content, right?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Let's talk about Even the systems are set up in
silence, Right right.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
So, getting back to your original point of what are
the two L's, love what you teach, select local phenomena,
partner that with what you loveto teach, and the entire way you
teach science will change, andso will children's attitudes
about science I wish I had a mrlangenberger's teacher.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Thank you well, and what's interesting, you were
saying how fast the brainprocesses.
Where my mind went toimmediately was that where we
almost conditioned through oureducational experience to like
process at a certain speed right, if I got the answer satisfied
moving on versus being able toprocess through that and then
it's almost like momentum.
You start picking up speed andyou're like I feel this way
(12:48):
about phenomenon that once youstart seeing it you can't unsee
it.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
I agree, I agree.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I was just on a family hike with extended family
and I'm walking around and I'mseeing all things.
I'm like what?
Why do we think is happeningthere?
And it was almost like theykind of laugh it off or make a
joke.
I'm like, no, I'm like can westop the hike?
You know it's 30 people, can westop the hike?
I have a lot of questions and Iwant to walk around and it was
just, you know, for me it wasevery step.
I'm like man, I got to eitherhelp everybody else dial in or I
(13:16):
got to dial it back.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
What you're talking about is really changing the
lens that you're asking childrento see through for science, and
I have a great movie examplefor this one.
Have you ever seen the Legomovie?
Yes, of course.
The Lego movie, when they talkabout master builders and the
difference between Emmett andthe master builders.
When master builders see allthese pieces, they instantly
come together, and Emmettdoesn't see it that way because
(13:41):
he wasn't taught that way, so hebuilds a double-decker couch,
which winds up solving a bunchof problems he never imagined.
So you know, it's just we'rechanging the lens of students to
be able to see the worlddifferently, and everyone sees
it differently and that's okay.
It's not comfortable foreveryone, but it's okay that we
all see the world a littledifferently.
And what can we do with that?
When I can see something oneway, you see it another way, the
(14:08):
three of us see thingsdifferently.
That's the best moment ofcollaboration, right, because we
share our vision and then wehave all grown and that is
really that's what we need.
So what this world needs,actually, in a broader scope
without getting toophilosophical from the
educational point.
That's what the world needs itneeds collaboration, a community
of different views comingtogether and having a
conversation, understanding.
We can have a dialogue about itand a growth can occur.
(14:28):
Right?
Understanding the growth alwaysmeans it's that you're going to
feel uncomfortable, right?
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I've been thinking about.
What do we point to?
How do we help them startdiving into phenomenon?
It is a newer, it is adifferent concept and how do you
get into it?
How do you get to the pointwhere you are looking local,
that you're, you feel empoweredto do this.
Before I even give myphilosophical view, I'm curious
what the two of you might thinkabout, like where do we start?
Like we talked, I felt thatshift myself.
(14:54):
Where, again, like we talkedabout with this hike, I'm
experiencing the hike verydifferently.
So I'm curious, you know, ifwe're encouraging teachers, how
do we help them?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I wasn't taught this way.
I was very much like here's thebook, go follow, do this.
Like physics was very boringand physics could be super fun
if I actually did some fun stuff.
But it wasn't until I startedseeing things this way, or
finding phenomena when I waswalking around and looking, that
I was able to make thatconnection and that shift.
So I think it has to start Likeyou were saying you have to
find what you love, and if youdon't love or even recognize
(15:23):
phenomena all around you, howcan you go local if you're not
even able to like see it?
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Right.
So I think, excellent point,and I would say exactly the same
thing.
It starts with the first L.
Yeah, it starts with youreducator.
What do they love?
Yeah, because they're the bestobservers of phenomena.
You wonder about things all thetime when you're on your hike.
You were wondering about whatwas going on around you because
you enjoy hiking, I enjoygardening, so that's where I
found really some of my firstexamples of phenomena that I
(15:50):
could teach, like the strawberrydecoy, like that was one of my
first lessons.
I started integrating when Istarted making this transition
because it was something that Ilove and something that I
observed.
I mean, I don't mind eating astrawberry if a bird took a
little peck out of it, but thekids were particular about it,
right.
So it comes from the educatorfirst.
You know how do you eat anelephant?
One bite at a time.
So it starts with the firstbite of the educator biting into
(16:12):
what they love.
From what they love they canfind a local phenomena and from
that point is everything isyou're jumping in.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
And your excitement creates their excitement.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
And when they're excited, it's like a
self-fulfilling prophecy.
When they're excited, youbecome more excited, because I
remember teaching and I wouldteach a lesson.
I'd be like, oh my gosh, thatwas amazing, I want to do that
again.
So what did I do that made thissuccessful?
What did the kids do?
Like that's what got me superjazzed up.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
You know, really as a I did a good job, but
professionally that's what we do.
How can I do this even better?
Could you imagine like you justpick.
You just start with one.
You start with one thing thatyou love, one phenomenon.
You find a group of standardsthat you can teach with that
phenomenon and then youintroduce that to your students
(16:59):
and you do a great job.
You're excited about it,they're excited about it.
It actually has real worldmeaning.
And then you reflect on how canI do it better?
And from year one to year two,and then it just grows.
So what we're talking about isplanting the seed.
How do we plant the seed?
It starts with what you loveand then it moves to what's
local.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I think it's interesting for teachers who,
like you were saying before, whofeel beholden to the curricular
materials.
It's like you said, it's alittle bit easier when you
already know the outcome becauseyou can predict the questions,
you can have the answers.
The shift in being okay withproviding something that you
love and being okay with notknowing all of the answers is a
(17:38):
massive one.
But how did you make the shift?
It feels like you made a shiftto be more open-ended in your
questioning and things like that.
So how did you ease into that?
Speaker 3 (17:46):
When the student comes to you, you say I'm not
sure, yeah, I'm not sure.
And that changes your positionin the classroom.
Right, because you are theauthority, the subject matter
expert.
And it's humbling because yousay I'm not sure.
And the kids are like what?
And I found a great experience,as a matter of fact, a very
empowering one for some address,ml population, multilinguistic
(18:07):
learners and one of the thingsthat really worked well with my
students is I don't know Spanishthat well, to be honest with
you, and one of the things I hadis I would often ask my Spanish
speaking students to help metranslate.
What's that word?
Watch their face All of asudden, even though I'm supposed
to be in, in, I'm supposed tobe in charge and I know
everything.
And I was putting it in theirhand, saying how do I?
(18:28):
I say this to my other students, so empowering to them.
But you have to just be okaywith not being so comfortable
every day.
There's nothing wrong withbeing comfortable, okay, every
time.
We need a break sometimes.
Yeah, comfortable is a break,it's our break.
But if you're going to grow,it's going to be hard and it's
not easy.
I'm not going to fool anyoneand say this came overnight.
This is shifting my entire roleas an educator.
(18:51):
Like part of your being RightActually being right, actually
like it's yeah, and to be okaywith the idea that I don't know.
I mean, kids teach me newthings all the time and it's
great, I'm excited, I lovelearning.
So, and that's what I'll say tothem I love learning, I.
And I'm not google, right, I'mnot you say that anyway but I'm
not that right.
I I know a lot of things aboutscience.
(19:11):
I don't know everything, and Ithink it's important for
students to see that you're notan infallible human being.
You make mistakes.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Well, since none of you asked, I'll share my
thoughts on my question, whichwas, I think, part of it.
For educators is it's subtlebut significant, that shift that
we're talking about in mindset.
But also giving yourselfpermission to be curious, allow
yourself to be curious.
It's like a first step.
Generalizing that's not how welearned, that was not an
(19:38):
accepted thing.
So, by giving yourselfpermission to be curious, then I
feel like that's like on theroad then to phenomena right,
phenomena comes from there andyou're like, wow, there's really
something here, and that goeswith things that you love.
That, to me, connects into thatIf I'm curious about it,
curious enough that I want totalk about it.
It just keeps building fromthere and there's more that you
want to see, you want to learn,and out of that comes student
(20:00):
engagement.
So what I'd like to do for thisepisode is I want to give you
the second to last, final word.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
We have to know where kids are today.
Kids aren't where we used to beright, so kids are in a new
place.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Where are they?
Speaker 3 (20:17):
So if we're still teaching the same way we learned
, we're standing by ourselves.
We're not with the kids.
So we have to know where theyare, how they're receiving
information and the world thatthey live in.
We have to become experts instudying that, because that's
the only way we wind up in thesame place as them, being able
to guide them through thislearning process.
Right, but I think that, again,if you don't do that, you'll
find yourself standing alone ina classroom, and I had a great
example of this.
I was talking to a colleague andshe has a good friend who's
(20:39):
teaching chemistry on a collegelevel and he is passionately
writing away on the board andit's great.
But then, if you look aroundthe classroom, you'd see that,
you know, while he's verypassionate and he feels like
he's giving 100%, he's not inthe same place as the students.
So while he is delivering anoutstanding presentation, he's
teaching it to himself.
(21:00):
Yeah, and he already knows it,yeah.
So you have to stop.
You have to turn around.
You have to look at youraudience, figure out where they
are, and that's where you haveto go, rather than trying to
call them out of the field to aplayground, back to where you
are because they're not coming.
I got a lot of boys and I callthem all the time and they run
(21:23):
in the opposite direction, youknow, but that's really just.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
we have to be where the kids are Right.
And it's important I reallylove these two L's from a
teacher framework standpoint ofhow do we think about it
differently as educators.
So if I were to give the finalthought, which is a complete
shock to no one of all thethings I heard, I think the most
powerful for me was love whatyou do.
Yep, do what you love.
And I thought a lot about howthere was a big campaign it's
(21:46):
still around, but there was abig campaign for support farmers
by local and I'm going to usethat and say support students,
teach local.
That's great.
Thank you, changenation nation,for tuning in and supporting us
the way you do.
We will certainly have joshlangenberger back for more
conversations.
Make sure that you follow usand share with all of your
(22:07):
frenemies, friends and why,frenemies, I don't know.
I want them to share witheveryone.
I don't care if they like themor not.
Just share it, okay or not?
Just share it Okay.
welcome back to change ed change it a podcast on
the road.
We're at the new jersey scienceconvention today in princeton.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
You must be super smart to be in princeton.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yeah, we must be super smart to get here.
There was no exam for us to getin, thank goodness, and we are
learning all about this greatstate that is 10 years ahead of
us when it comes to implementingNGSS.
There's so much here for us tolearn.
I'm your host, andrew Kuhn,education consultant from
Montgomery County IntermediateUnit, and here with me is
Patrice Semecek.
That's it.
(00:39):
You don't do anything.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I work with teachers.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
You work with teachers.
That's a very noble job, thanks.
I would learn more about whatyou can do sometimes.
All right, I gotta, I gottatell you, change that nation.
I'm very excited that we areable to do this podcast.
This is a partnership and afriendship person we're doing it
in person that's really cool.
Yeah, our guest is someone thatwe've created a partnership and
a friendship with for over ayear.
(01:02):
We'd like to introduce joshlangenberger, welcome.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Thank you.
It's a pleasure to be here.
I listen.
I love talking about anythinghaving to do with science, made
a lifetime and a career of it,teaching over 30 years now, so I
just love to get anyopportunity to share my love and
passion with science with otherpeople and hopefully inspire
them along the way.
That's great.
It's a great opportunity for meas well, so thank you for
having me.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I'm glad we're focusing on science and not math
, because you don't look a dayover 27.
So I don't have the 30-yearteaching.
I'm very flattered.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
A little older than that, though.
Not far from retirement,interestingly enough, but I
don't know that I could retirefrom this.
I love this.
It's a theme that we heardtoday.
Is that you know?
I'm here after 30 plus years ofdoing it and I love it?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
I'll tell you it's very clear anytime we talk to
you, whether it's on the phone,whether we are meeting face to
face, your passion reignsthrough and you can tell that
you are so committed to not onlyscience but, let's say, the
transition from how science usedto be taught to kind of this.
We're going to call this NGSSmodel of how do we engage
(02:09):
students in the learning, and Ihave to say there were a lot of
things that really resonatedwith me, but one of them was
that kids aren't bound by therules of science.
I thought that was a veryfascinating thing that you said,
because we as adults have, youknow, guidelines.
We have things that we well,you can't do that because of
this, and can you pull that outa little bit more for me?
Like, where are you going withthat?
Because I was really intriguedby that.
I wrote it down, which means itwas good.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Absolutely so.
You know I'm involved in a lotof different projects.
The example I was using in mypresentation today was about the
pygmy forest down in SouthJersey that you know.
Here we have a sort of abiogeological phenomenon that's
occurring, and scientists havebeen down there and investigated
and can't tell why they triedto pull trees out.
They've studied the soil andall of that.
For those of you that don'tknow, the pygmy forest is just a
(02:47):
forest in the Pine Barrens inwhich the trees don't typically
grow more than about six feettall.
Wonderful investigation, by theway, for students.
And the reason why it's awonderful investigation for
students is because thescientists have already told us
they can't figure out why orwhat the cause of that
specifically is.
And so what a great opportunityfor students to launch in and
begin making their own claimsand exploring them Because, as I
(03:08):
said, they're not bound by therules.
So our geophysicists orgeologists, they all know what
the rules of the game are.
They know how to study theirfield very well.
But you take a group of kidswith just simply curiosity and
they make that.
Well, what if?
It's this right?
The what if, what if, where?
A lot of times when we graduateto our higher degrees of
learning.
We're no longer.
(03:28):
What if it's like this is howright Versus what if?
Let me explain, instead offigure out why, and so students,
you know, are great problemsolvers, and intuitively so, and
so let's have them solve someof those problems.
And I guess we could dive offand say well, this really is one
leading question into what isthe role of a teacher in a
classroom.
(03:49):
Right, because traditionally itwas.
We guide students through thatlearning process.
We take the kids, we introducean idea, we pose the questions
and that leads us to a scriptedcontent.
Great, and then, at the end ofthe day, we're still the
smartest people in the room.
The kids have memorized acouple of things and we feel
good about ourselves.
But should we?
Let's jump instead.
(04:10):
Let's take that question, let'shave the kids come up with the
questions, and from thosequestions come outstanding
claims.
And you're going to travel intoan area.
As an educator, you're notgoing to be safe, and what I
mean by that is educators arevery safe in knowledge that they
know, right, very safe.
But when you start exploringdifferent claims in my classroom
alone I could have 24 differentclaims.
(04:30):
I don't know about all of them,but the great thing is, as an
educator, I don't have to know,because I have scientific
explorers in my classroom andthey're going to tell me
everything I need to know aboutthat topic and, interestingly
enough, within a year or so, I'man expert in that topic.
I don't mention that to the kids, but I still let them come up
with their own questions, leadthem to their own discovery and
(04:52):
a great piece of teaching andmisconception.
Some of them, through theirlearning, discover that what
they've learned or what they'vestated in their claim is a
misconception, and so theycorrect their own learning.
Right, because it's importanttoday, in the world that we live
in, that you are open tolooking at making multiple
observations, determining thevalue of those observations,
infusing them into your ownthought and, if they
(05:12):
differentiate from what youunderstand, be at least
open-minded enough to explorethem as an opportunity, as
something that's different.
And if you find out that yourinformation is wrong, you have
the opportunity to correctyourself.
That's really the true natureof misconception.
Probably a separate podcast,but misconception is another
day went the wrong way.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
It was kind of very clearly like no, no, no, this is
how it works.
You know the right, this is aone-way road where now it
(05:50):
actually seems like you'rebuilding not just a highway with
on-ramps, but there areintersections, there are, you
know, off-ramps there, you know,there's all these ways to get
into it, and the thing thatresonates it sounds like it
doesn't even have to be the samehighway.
Yeah, it's just this.
You're building Again thisinfrastructure, this web of
interacting and moving.
The thing that was resonatingwith me was, in a lot of ways,
that's how kids are taking ininformation.
Right now, as it is, I walk bykids that have on, they have a
(06:12):
playing device, they haveYouTube on the screen and they
have a phone on them at the sametime.
They're taking in all thisinformation.
Not saying that's the right wayto do it, but their brains are
wiring differently than ourswhere before it was, there was
one answer.
There, brains are wiringdifferently than ours, where
before it was, there was oneanswer.
There's one direction to go,and now they're coming to it
from so many different angles.
You're allowing really it's aUDL design.
(06:33):
You're allowing everybody toenter into the space.
Science is where we start.
I loved how you pulled in theconnection of drumline Right and
how you're talking about it.
Science is the most important.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
The most important subject you'll ever learn and it
is.
Without it we wouldn't becertainly here today, right?
So we use that as afoundational understanding of
all other subjects and you know,of course I'm going to say it's
the most important.
I teach science, right?
So it's of course, the mostimportant to me, but you know it
is something I also try toinstill in my children and my
own personal children and mychildren that I see in class
(07:00):
every day as well, and I did aseparate piece with like we
don't teach kids how to reallyask questions, and especially
with, like you were saying aminute ago, where they're given
a lot of this information.
They don't have to come up withit on their own, they're just
given it.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
And they accept it as it is.
They don't even second guess it, right.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
And so you know, a cornerstone of science is
observations.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
We begin with good observations and we just teach
kids to be better observers,Just as a side note for any of
our listeners who think thatNick Cannon is just from the
Masked Singer that Drumline is agreat movie, 20 years old,
right, yeah 20 year old movieMovies existed 20 years ago.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Very curious as to where you're going and why we're
talking about this.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Because Nick Cannon was in Drumline.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yes, I'm aware.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
And we talked about Drumline and the part that we
didn't mention was that Josh hadsaid that he got this idea from
Drumline, because in Drumlineyou would hear them talking to
each different section.
The section leader was sayingwe're the best in the band.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
We're the most important.
Everyone was claiming that theywere the heartbeat of the band,
the most important, and none ofthe sections communicate to
each other.
They were just simply sayingyou know, math class could say
they're the most important.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Quite a metaphor.
Yes, yes, thank you for theclarity, because you know I have
it.
Movies are not my jam.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Okay, could you just tell us about these two L's and
how they work for you and howthey can apply for other
teachers in their profession?
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Absolutely so.
We've all heard the three D'sof science.
We know what they are, we canrecite them, we know standards
and all of that.
But I think there's a moreimportant piece to that was the
two L's, and nobody's ever heardof these things before, as you
said.
You know where did these comefrom?
They were kind of born out ofgiving other presentations to
science teachers and gettingfeedback from my colleagues and
things like that, specificallyscience.
(08:33):
And so the two L's of scienceare, first and foremost, you
have to teach what you love,have to teach what you love, and
I know that there are manyobstacles to that.
You're given a curriculum,you're given content, all of
that but the true foundation ofNGSS or even Steeles, you're
given standards, right Standards.
Nobody specifically told youwhat phenomena you need to teach
(08:57):
those with.
So why aren't you teaching thethings that you love?
I love trees as weird as that isand so I was talking about a
chestnut tree that I grew upwith as a kid and I wondered
where they went, and they wereall gone in New Jersey, and so I
want to know how can I bringthem back, and so I teach kids
about that.
You know, I have a strawberrypatch in my yard.
The birds always take a biteout of my strawberries, so I
(09:19):
teach them how to create astrawberry decoy that you drop
in there to train yourneighborhood birds not to
package your strawberries.
Those are fun.
I'm teaching them like I'mteaching them what I love to do.
Right.
First, just teach what you love,because if you love what you
teach, the kids know and youwant the kids to at least like
(09:39):
science.
But remember the kids willnever enjoy it more than you.
So you're not going to likescience and then necessarily
have a kid love science.
But if you love science, kidswill like science and even if
they don't like science, theystill think it's interesting and
the problem solving or thecritical thing that I'm teaching
in my class is going to helpthem the rest of their life.
But the other part is so thefirst is really love what you
(10:05):
teach, and the second, thesecond L of it, is teach local
phenomena, and there are plentyof great examples of phenomena,
and GSS gives us lots of onlineresources.
As a matter of fact, there's anentire book sold on the idea.
But if you're trying to create acommunity of learners and
you're trying to be inclusive ofall those learners because you
don't know what background orexperience or even what
languages they have, show thekids a picture of something
(10:29):
that's happening around yourschool or in your community and
put them to the task of askingabout it.
When you show a photo and I'veoften said this, photos are a
great equalizer in science, alsoright, because they don't have
a language barrier Show them apicture and have them express to
you what questions do they have, then you have them right,
because science answersquestions.
(10:49):
So now you have them in thescience loop.
Fantastic.
But I think it's important fromthat question that local
phenomena have them begininvestigating it, because their
solution can have real impactlocally.
You know, if you're findingthat all these insects are dying
and the kids say I think allthe insects are dying because of
something and they investigateit, then we can start
legislation to stop spraying ofthat pesticide or whatever it
(11:11):
happens to be Something new tothe environment that wasn't
there before.
You're empowering these kids,you're connecting them to what's
going on locally.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
And letting them see that they can make an impact, no
matter how small.
And that is such a game changer, especially, I think, in our
current culture of kids, wherethings just happen to them and
around them without realizing oreven seeing a path to make any
impact.
When you ask a kid, what isscience?
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Their answer to me should be it's building
connections between the knownand unknown.
That's what we're asking themto do, and it's also a very
empowering tool.
We could do a separate podcaston that one.
It's a very empowering tool,and the segue I made is when you
go to these AI presentations,what is the foundation of all
the algorithms?
All the foundational algorithmsare building connections.
(11:56):
Right, the brain is still thefastest computer on the planet,
but we don't teach kids toreally make connections anymore.
We give them content and theymemorize the content, right?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Let's talk about Even the systems are set up in
silence, Right right.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
So, getting back to your original point of what are
the two L's, love what you teach, select local phenomena,
partner that with what you loveto teach, and the entire way you
teach science will change, andso will children's attitudes
about science I wish I had a mrlangenberger's teacher.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Thank you well, and what's interesting, you were
saying how fast the brainprocesses.
Where my mind went toimmediately was that where we
almost conditioned through oureducational experience to like
process at a certain speed right, if I got the answer satisfied
moving on versus being able toprocess through that and then
it's almost like momentum.
You start picking up speed andyou're like I feel this way
(12:48):
about phenomenon that once youstart seeing it you can't unsee
it.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
I agree, I agree.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I was just on a family hike with extended family
and I'm walking around and I'mseeing all things.
I'm like what?
Why do we think is happeningthere?
And it was almost like theykind of laugh it off or make a
joke.
I'm like, no, I'm like can westop the hike?
You know it's 30 people, can westop the hike?
I have a lot of questions and Iwant to walk around and it was
just, you know, for me it wasevery step.
I'm like man, I got to eitherhelp everybody else dial in or I
(13:16):
got to dial it back.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
What you're talking about is really changing the
lens that you're asking childrento see through for science, and
I have a great movie examplefor this one.
Have you ever seen the Legomovie?
Yes, of course.
The Lego movie, when they talkabout master builders and the
difference between Emmett andthe master builders.
When master builders see allthese pieces, they instantly
come together, and Emmettdoesn't see it that way because
(13:41):
he wasn't taught that way, so hebuilds a double-decker couch,
which winds up solving a bunchof problems he never imagined.
So you know, it's just we'rechanging the lens of students to
be able to see the worlddifferently, and everyone sees
it differently and that's okay.
It's not comfortable foreveryone, but it's okay that we
all see the world a littledifferently.
And what can we do with that?
When I can see something oneway, you see it another way, the
(14:08):
three of us see thingsdifferently.
That's the best moment ofcollaboration, right, because we
share our vision and then wehave all grown and that is
really that's what we need.
So what this world needs,actually, in a broader scope
without getting toophilosophical from the
educational point.
That's what the world needs itneeds collaboration, a community
of different views comingtogether and having a
conversation, understanding.
We can have a dialogue about itand a growth can occur.
(14:28):
Right?
Understanding the growth alwaysmeans it's that you're going to
feel uncomfortable, right?
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I've been thinking about.
What do we point to?
How do we help them startdiving into phenomenon?
It is a newer, it is adifferent concept and how do you
get into it?
How do you get to the pointwhere you are looking local,
that you're, you feel empoweredto do this.
Before I even give myphilosophical view, I'm curious
what the two of you might thinkabout, like where do we start?
Like we talked, I felt thatshift myself.
(14:54):
Where, again, like we talkedabout with this hike, I'm
experiencing the hike verydifferently.
So I'm curious, you know, ifwe're encouraging teachers, how
do we help them?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I wasn't taught this way.
I was very much like here's thebook, go follow, do this.
Like physics was very boringand physics could be super fun
if I actually did some fun stuff.
But it wasn't until I startedseeing things this way, or
finding phenomena when I waswalking around and looking, that
I was able to make thatconnection and that shift.
So I think it has to start Likeyou were saying you have to
find what you love, and if youdon't love or even recognize
(15:23):
phenomena all around you, howcan you go local if you're not
even able to like see it?
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Right.
So I think, excellent point,and I would say exactly the same
thing.
It starts with the first L.
Yeah, it starts with youreducator.
What do they love?
Yeah, because they're the bestobservers of phenomena.
You wonder about things all thetime when you're on your hike.
You were wondering about whatwas going on around you because
you enjoy hiking, I enjoygardening, so that's where I
found really some of my firstexamples of phenomena that I
(15:50):
could teach, like the strawberrydecoy, like that was one of my
first lessons.
I started integrating when Istarted making this transition
because it was something that Ilove and something that I
observed.
I mean, I don't mind eating astrawberry if a bird took a
little peck out of it, but thekids were particular about it,
right.
So it comes from the educatorfirst.
You know how do you eat anelephant?
One bite at a time.
So it starts with the firstbite of the educator biting into
(16:12):
what they love.
From what they love they canfind a local phenomena and from
that point is everything isyou're jumping in.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
And your excitement creates their excitement.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
And when they're excited, it's like a
self-fulfilling prophecy.
When they're excited, youbecome more excited, because I
remember teaching and I wouldteach a lesson.
I'd be like, oh my gosh, thatwas amazing, I want to do that
again.
So what did I do that made thissuccessful?
What did the kids do?
Like that's what got me superjazzed up.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
You know, really as a I did a good job, but
professionally that's what we do.
How can I do this even better?
Could you imagine like you justpick.
You just start with one.
You start with one thing thatyou love, one phenomenon.
You find a group of standardsthat you can teach with that
phenomenon and then youintroduce that to your students
(16:59):
and you do a great job.
You're excited about it,they're excited about it.
It actually has real worldmeaning.
And then you reflect on how canI do it better?
And from year one to year two,and then it just grows.
So what we're talking about isplanting the seed.
How do we plant the seed?
It starts with what you loveand then it moves to what's
local.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I think it's interesting for teachers who,
like you were saying before, whofeel beholden to the curricular
materials.
It's like you said, it's alittle bit easier when you
already know the outcome becauseyou can predict the questions,
you can have the answers.
The shift in being okay withproviding something that you
love and being okay with notknowing all of the answers is a
(17:38):
massive one.
But how did you make the shift?
It feels like you made a shiftto be more open-ended in your
questioning and things like that.
So how did you ease into that?
Speaker 3 (17:46):
When the student comes to you, you say I'm not
sure, yeah, I'm not sure.
And that changes your positionin the classroom.
Right, because you are theauthority, the subject matter
expert.
And it's humbling because yousay I'm not sure.
And the kids are like what?
And I found a great experience,as a matter of fact, a very
empowering one for some address,ml population, multilinguistic
(18:07):
learners and one of the thingsthat really worked well with my
students is I don't know Spanishthat well, to be honest with
you, and one of the things I hadis I would often ask my Spanish
speaking students to help metranslate.
What's that word?
Watch their face All of asudden, even though I'm supposed
to be in, in, I'm supposed tobe in charge and I know
everything.
And I was putting it in theirhand, saying how do I?
(18:28):
I say this to my other students, so empowering to them.
But you have to just be okaywith not being so comfortable
every day.
There's nothing wrong withbeing comfortable, okay, every
time.
We need a break sometimes.
Yeah, comfortable is a break,it's our break.
But if you're going to grow,it's going to be hard and it's
not easy.
I'm not going to fool anyoneand say this came overnight.
This is shifting my entire roleas an educator.
(18:51):
Like part of your being RightActually being right, actually
like it's yeah, and to be okaywith the idea that I don't know.
I mean, kids teach me newthings all the time and it's
great, I'm excited, I lovelearning.
So, and that's what I'll say tothem I love learning, I.
And I'm not google, right, I'mnot you say that anyway but I'm
not that right.
I I know a lot of things aboutscience.
(19:11):
I don't know everything, and Ithink it's important for
students to see that you're notan infallible human being.
You make mistakes.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Well, since none of you asked, I'll share my
thoughts on my question, whichwas, I think, part of it.
For educators is it's subtlebut significant, that shift that
we're talking about in mindset.
But also giving yourselfpermission to be curious, allow
yourself to be curious.
It's like a first step.
Generalizing that's not how welearned, that was not an
(19:38):
accepted thing.
So, by giving yourselfpermission to be curious, then I
feel like that's like on theroad then to phenomena right,
phenomena comes from there andyou're like, wow, there's really
something here, and that goeswith things that you love.
That, to me, connects into thatIf I'm curious about it,
curious enough that I want totalk about it.
It just keeps building fromthere and there's more that you
want to see, you want to learn,and out of that comes student
(20:00):
engagement.
So what I'd like to do for thisepisode is I want to give you
the second to last, final word.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
We have to know where kids are today.
Kids aren't where we used to beright, so kids are in a new
place.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Where are they?
Speaker 3 (20:17):
So if we're still teaching the same way we learned
, we're standing by ourselves.
We're not with the kids.
So we have to know where theyare, how they're receiving
information and the world thatthey live in.
We have to become experts instudying that, because that's
the only way we wind up in thesame place as them, being able
to guide them through thislearning process.
Right, but I think that, again,if you don't do that, you'll
find yourself standing alone ina classroom, and I had a great
example of this.
I was talking to a colleague andshe has a good friend who's
(20:39):
teaching chemistry on a collegelevel and he is passionately
writing away on the board andit's great.
But then, if you look aroundthe classroom, you'd see that,
you know, while he's verypassionate and he feels like
he's giving 100%, he's not inthe same place as the students.
So while he is delivering anoutstanding presentation, he's
teaching it to himself.
(21:00):
Yeah, and he already knows it,yeah.
So you have to stop.
You have to turn around.
You have to look at youraudience, figure out where they
are, and that's where you haveto go, rather than trying to
call them out of the field to aplayground, back to where you
are because they're not coming.
I got a lot of boys and I callthem all the time and they run
(21:23):
in the opposite direction, youknow, but that's really just.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
we have to be where the kids are Right.
And it's important I reallylove these two L's from a
teacher framework standpoint ofhow do we think about it
differently as educators.
So if I were to give the finalthought, which is a complete
shock to no one of all thethings I heard, I think the most
powerful for me was love whatyou do.
Yep, do what you love.
And I thought a lot about howthere was a big campaign it's
(21:46):
still around, but there was abig campaign for support farmers
by local and I'm going to usethat and say support students,
teach local.
That's great.
Thank you, changenation nation,for tuning in and supporting us
the way you do.
We will certainly have joshlangenberger back for more
conversations.
Make sure that you follow usand share with all of your
(22:07):
frenemies, friends and why,frenemies, I don't know.
I want them to share witheveryone.
I don't care if they like themor not.
Just share it, okay or not?
Just share it Okay.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.