October 6, 2025 • 45 mins
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A simple line reframed our whole approach to teaching: prepare students for their future, not our past. Sitting down with Jeff Remington from Penn State’s CSATS, we dig into what that looks like when classrooms connect directly to research, industry, and the realities of Pennsylvania’s evolving economy. Instead of one‑off PDs and “random acts of STEM‑ness,” we talk about sustained, transdisciplinary learning built on real local phenomena—data centers, smart manufacturing, clean energy, life sciences—and the skills students actually use on the job.
Jeff breaks down the new NSF‑supported STEM Teacher Corps, a multi‑year experience that pays and empowers elementary teachers to embed with researchers, return as regional leaders, and scale authentic project‑based learning. We explore convergence education—where science, math, engineering, tech, and even policy and communication blend into problems students can’t solve with a single subject. That mindset aligns cleanly with the STEELS standards’ performance expectations and higher Depth of Knowledge, shifting classrooms toward application, reasoning, and transfer.
We also get practical with AI. Rather than banning or siloing it, we position AI as the fourth teammate in student groups: a guided thought partner that raises rigor and mirrors how modern teams work. With clear guardrails, students learn to prompt, verify, and reason—while teachers model ethical use and bridge a growing skills gap. Layer in Pennsylvania’s five economic pillars—agriculture, energy, manufacturing, robotics/AI/tech, and life sciences—plus environmental sustainability, and you have a roadmap for making learning local, meaningful, and career‑ready.
If you’re ready to move from theory to practice, this conversation will give you concrete starts: choose a local phenomenon, map it to STEELS and the pillars, use AI to deepen inquiry, and build from there. Join us, share this with a colleague who’s hungry for real change, and subscribe so you never miss new ideas that help every student step into the future with confidence.
To learn more information about CSATS or to stay up on their latest information, visit: CSTATS or find them on social media (Linked In, FaceBook, & Twitter)
Want to learn more about ChangED? Check out our website at: learn.mciu.org/changed
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Welcome back.
I didn't hit record on here.
You didn't tell me you wereready.
You said we weren't going yet.
Okay.
Are you sure we're ready?
Ready?
Are you ready?
I'm ready.
SPEAKER_01 (00:10):
Okay, welcome back to Change It.
Changed Changed.
The number one educationalpodcast in all of Pennsylvania.
Creeping into the Pennsylvania.
SPEAKER_00 (00:24):
I thought we were worldwide.
Well, I like to bring it upbecause I did just talk to my
niece in Scotland, and she saidthey're listening over there.
SPEAKER_01 (00:31):
So we are world renowned.
SPEAKER_00 (00:33):
With 14-year-olds in Scotland.
SPEAKER_01 (00:38):
I am your host, Andrew Kuhn, Education
Consultant from MontgomeryCounty Intermediate Unit.
And here with me is Tony.
SPEAKER_00 (00:46):
I'm Patrice.
Thanks, Tony.
I'm Patrice Semichek, also atthe Montgomery County
Intermediate Unit EducationalConsultant.
I forgot to say that.
SPEAKER_02 (00:58):
SDF.
SDF, whatever title you want togive me is okay with.
That's okay with me at thispoint.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03):
It's been SDF for a while, don't I shock?
SPEAKER_01 (01:05):
Yeah.
I'm very excited about thispodcast because we are back in
our origin town when the podcastbecame more of a reality.
SPEAKER_00 (01:15):
And before when I was sitting there, actively a
part of the conversation, butnot allowed to be in the initial
PO podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (01:22):
It's all on Andrew.
SPEAKER_01 (01:23):
You know, it's interesting about history.
It can be retold.
It can be adjusted.
SPEAKER_00 (01:29):
Except the record show I was not involved in any
of them.
That's cool.
I'm not salty.
SPEAKER_01 (01:35):
Moving forward we threw our jobs, have the
opportunity to come up to PennState quarterly and meet with
other like-minds, but alsoexpand our network.
Better minds.
SPEAKER_00 (01:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:48):
And one of those individuals is our guest today
who has definitely expanded ournetwork and also empowered us in
the work that we're doing.
Repeat guests.
Repeat guests, backed by populardemand.
So look, you're also ahead with14 years old.
Well, we're here with JeffRemington, who works at Penn
(02:10):
State with the Center forScience in the schools.
Correct.
CSATS for shorts.
CSATS.
You have amazing things that aregoing on all the time.
I always learn somethingwhenever I talk to Jeff
Remington.
But I know with the work and themomentum that's going on with
CSATS, you are looking beyondnow.
(02:32):
You're looking beyond what'shappening in the current
landscape.
Because there's a lot happeningin the current landscape.
We just left the trainingtalking about AI and you know
getting people on board.
But if I understand correctlyfrom our conversations, you're
not talking about today or eventomorrow, but you're kind of
looking a little further ahead.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_03 (02:50):
I love to use the Wayne Gretzky quote.
Uh, we don't skate to the puck,we skate to where the puck is
going.
And at this level up here, atour one research institution
that's heavily invested in whatthe state is doing and economic
initiatives, we we are seeingwhere that puck is going and
that puck is moving fast.
SPEAKER_01 (03:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
We talk so much at theintermediate unit level and even
in our schools about STEM.
And it's you know, STEM is is abig focus of that.
So where does CSAS live intothat?
What does it look like in yourworld with the with the SEM?
Is it kind of focused on youknow the science, technology, uh
(03:30):
technology, engineering, andmathematics?
Is it bigger than that?
Are we what do we not know thatyou know?
SPEAKER_03 (03:36):
Yeah, so well, let me let me just uh tell you a
little bit about what CSATS isuh as a refresher for if for
those of you that may not knowus.
We are a center in the Collegeof Education that serves all of
Penn State University, all thecolleges, engineering,
agriculture, whatever.
We are what's called a broaderimpacts unit.
(03:56):
We translate cutting-edge STEMresearch work by AI researchers,
engineers, ag scientists, youname it.
We translate that into what Ilike to call Curiosity Through
Career Workforce Development forK-12, K-16, all across the
Commonwealth as part of what'scalled our land grant mission.
(04:20):
And in that, we get to do somereally cool things.
We get to see what's the cuttingedge in these technologies.
We have programs, some that payteachers to come and embed
themselves in STEM researchthat's happening from AI to ag
to engineering to biomedical,you name it.
(04:43):
We we have it in there.
We just recently were notifiedthat we were awarded a very big
NSF grant.
It's a$5 million grant for fiveyears.
It is a bit of a holdout fromthe Chips and Science Act
dealing with the semiconductors.
It was a call for and itcontinues to be a call for, a
national STEM teacher corps.
(05:03):
And this is to have a nationwideelite core of STEM teachers that
are practicing teachers in theclassroom.
But over the next five years,um, institutions like ours,
there's only seven institutionsthat were awarded this in the
whole United States.
Institutions like ours will beon a call to try uh and recruit
(05:26):
27 elementary teachers that wantto become these super STEM
teachers to elevate their peers,to elevate their students, to
elevate their schools, theirregions.
This grant, this$5 milliongrant, is in conjunction with
two other states, West VirginiaUniversity and all of West
Virginia, and the College of NewJersey and all of New Jersey.
SPEAKER_04 (05:48):
Wow.
SPEAKER_03 (05:49):
So we're seeking 27 teachers for this, okay to five
teachers, nine teachers for eachstate.
So we're looking for nineteachers in Pennsylvania.
These teachers will get$10,000 ayear as a stipend.
They're just going to stay inthe classroom.
Their summers are going to bepretty much spent doing work
with us as we're going to showthem where the puck is going,
(06:10):
really get them supercharged,support them, give them the
capacity that during the schoolyears, then over the next four
to five years, they will go backinto their schools, into their
regions, statewide, and evenmid-Atlantic and do this work to
get teachers to this next level.
So if you're interested, yeah,stay tuned to us by subscribing
(06:32):
to our newsletter.
And you can find that at asubscription at CSATS.psu.edu or
look for us at CSATS onLinkedIn, on Facebook, or on
Twitter.
SPEAKER_00 (06:43):
I'm a little sad I'm not in the classroom anymore
because that seems like such apowerful way of embedding it,
trying it out.
And then the first time I heardyou speak was about things you
were doing in your classroom.
So I think that the impact,while we're at IUs, we can talk
about theory and things thatthey should be doing.
Hearing from someone who ispractically like implementing it
(07:05):
as is and living it andbreathing it and perfecting it
is going to be so much moreimpactful and such a game
changer.
I'm so jealous.
SPEAKER_03 (07:13):
I I feel it's like it's like learning a language.
Yeah.
Theoretically learn a languagein class, but unless you're
immersed and embedded in it,exactly.
Yes, you don't really get itunless you see it in the
context.
And that's what this is gonnabe.
This is gonna be an immersion.
They're gonna be ambassadorwanting to have a teacher.
They're gonna be an ambassador.
SPEAKER_02 (07:32):
This is near and dear to me because I taught
fourth and fifth grade for 10years, and then I was an
elementary principal.
And we did have a STEM class,but it was kind of thrown
together last minute as aspecial.
They always grabbed the techieteacher, you know, in the
school, and they did their best,and they were awesome at what
they did.
I'll qualify.
SPEAKER_03 (07:51):
It's not gonna be random acts of STEM-ness.
Yes.
That's sort of the thing.
SPEAKER_00 (07:55):
It is STEM infusion.
SPEAKER_03 (07:57):
It is gonna be authentic workforce development.
It's a dream.
It is really gonna be amazing.
That's not the only thing wegot.
Of course not.
Of course not.
So we will be working with thegovernment of Pennsylvania to do
a series of AI K-12 town hallsacross Pennsylvania.
We'll be doing this uh sevenregional town halls and one
(08:19):
online.
We'll look for that in the fall,uh, late fall of 25 and in the
spring of 26.
It'll be coming to a Penn StateCommonwealth campus near you.
We are going to bring with us onthis town hall roadshow a panel
of experts from up here at PennState that are AI researchers
and policy researchers,evaluators, and seasoned
(08:41):
teachers that have decades ofK-12 experience to bring that
practical booth on the ground.
Again, stay tuned with oursocial media or our newsletter
to be in touch with this.
It is also gonna be this townhall is also gonna be a
listening session.
We're gonna understand what arepeople feeling in K-12.
Yeah, what are fears, what arehopes?
(09:02):
Our evaluator is gonna take allthat into account, and we'll be
able to have a detailed reportwhen we're done to help inform
where Pennsylvania wants to gofrom here.
SPEAKER_02 (09:11):
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_03 (09:12):
As if that's not enough, the National Academies
of Science have a report thatyou can currently look at.
It's um the K-12 Rural STEM andWorkforce Development report
that they have out that is veryvery salient across the country,
but very salient right here inPennsylvania.
They have reached out to us, andwe are in the early stages of a
(09:35):
potential summit around that inlate spring, early summer next
year.
Again, very early stages.
But if you want to keep in touchwith us, yeah, follow us on
socials, and that kind of blendsinto what we're really going to
be talking about today.
(09:56):
I will say, follow us on our onour socials and all.
You will see we have tons ofother opportunities, too many to
mention here, that come up on aregular basis, depending on
what's happening with Penn Stateresearchers.
I mean, we are cutting edges.
What are they doing next week?
Well, let's build a program.
SPEAKER_00 (10:12):
It's very cool.
That's how we we that's how wecame together.
Yeah, that's how we cametogether.
We were out of CSAS training onYES, yeah, engineering.
And the the program itself wasphenomenal.
The whole experience wasamazing.
I can't say enough about theamazing things you guys do here
and the partners that you have.
So yeah, we talked abouteverybody.
SPEAKER_03 (10:33):
Yeah, uh being used.
That's that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (10:35):
Two years later, that's awesome.
Dr.
Christine Cunningham.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (10:38):
She is a rock star.
SPEAKER_00 (10:40):
It was it was a fabulous, a fabulous week.
It was great.
SPEAKER_03 (10:43):
Yeah, that's great.
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
And for our listeners, if you put in the
promo code change ed, you getzero off.
A signed picture for Andrew.
SPEAKER_00 (10:55):
That's only picture of Andrew with no facial hair.
That's what you get assignednaked face picture of Andrew
here and buying.
SPEAKER_01 (11:02):
The one thing that I that I am excited about that as
well is that what you said withWest Virginia and with New
Jersey, they're still in ourarea, right?
So it's a great opportunity forcollaboration and working
together.
What stood out to me most, evenwhen you two were talking about
it, is that one-off PDs aremoving into the pasting in the
past.
SPEAKER_00 (11:23):
Well, and they should be because they're not
effective.
We all know they're noteffective.
SPEAKER_01 (11:25):
But the buck is nowhere near there, right?
Yeah, there is no buck.
And so, but this opportunity islike we're saying, I think it's
the life changing actually,because then you can't unsee
that anymore.
You look at everything that way,and it would take an entire
career of once-a-day originaldevelopment and not even get
close to where you'll be afteryour first summer of doing this.
(11:48):
Yes, and you've got five packsummers.
Yeah.
So the multiplication factor istremendous, not only in their
own career, but then within theschools and where they're
working and there are theeducators.
So the vacuum effect, which Iimagine was a big part of how
this was planned, is tremendous.
Yes.
You have this buy-in that'slike, no, no, no, keep working,
(12:09):
keep doing it.
Yes.
And would even be tremendous aswe rolled out steels to have
been able to do something likethis where you had educators.
Just embedded learning itself isjust yeah, but just like how can
we pause and like you justreally soak this in, and then it
would just the buy-in would bedifferent because you've got
people who are just socommitted.
Yeah, yeah.
Versus you're trying to do theold, you're trying to learn the
(12:30):
new, you're you know, you'resprinkling it in.
So I I definitely applaud thiswork.
And Tony's already filling outhis application.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:39):
I'm looking into I love that we're maybe I'll go
back.
I love that we're talking aboutK-12 workforce development
already because I don't think usas elementary folk understand
the impact that we have furtherdown the line with STEM careers
and STEM practice because youjust said I'm gonna use that
random acts of stemness.
Yeah, I'm gonna use that forevernow.
Thank you.
Yeah, I think it's so importantfor these young because they can
(13:00):
you speak to that a little bitof where that comes from and and
the research done behind it.
SPEAKER_03 (13:03):
I'll tell you a little bit about random acts of
stemness.
To me, I feel like it's what Idid when I started teaching 35
years ago.
Yeah.
Well, actually, it was fouryears ago now.
I wanted to be, and I thinkyoung teachers want this.
It's self-gratifying.
It's like being that teacher.
Being this being the star on thestage.
So I would set myself on fire,set students on fire, literally.
(13:28):
I would eat kissing cockroaches,I would just do like Mr.
Wizard stuff all the time.
Yeah, edutainment.
Yeah.
And like five years down theroad, I realized I thought that
would hook the kids into wantingto learn deeper.
And it never really did.
They kept saying, Mr.
Rem, burn something else, closesomething else up.
Like they wanted to beentertained.
Eat another leg.
(13:49):
They didn't, yeah, they didn'treally want to learn.
And then I started to dive intoother things, got involved in
seeing what researchers weredoing at the College of
Medicine, and realized what Iwas doing was nothing like what
was happening in real lab.
So, like, what can I do to getkids there?
So that really is the wholeconcept of like thinking about
(14:12):
STEM workforce development.
And elementary is the keybecause I think business and
industry right now, they thinkthat if they get kids their
senior year, they're golden.
No, that's what kids have tomake their decision, like start
thinking about this.
And parents, parents have to beeducated.
I would say by you know mid tolate elementary school, so that
(14:33):
they can start thinking aboutthose tracks in middle school to
get there.
Uh, for instance, right now,smart manufacturing and
manufacturing is a big thingright now.
It's a big initiative.
And if you talk to parents,parents would think, oh, like
they think steel mills andthings like that.
The manufacturing is totallydifferent now.
It is clean manufacturing, smartmanufacturing.
(14:54):
Technicians can have familysustaining careers with plenty
of advancement and college paidfor by these companies with as
little as one extra year of workafter high school to get these
smart manufacturing technicianjobs.
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
There's a whole world out there that we just
don't even know or allow accessto.
Like we just don't even knowabout any of it.
SPEAKER_02 (15:16):
Education doesn't understand the business world,
and the business world doesn'tunderstand education in a lot of
sectors.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (15:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:23):
Right.
What's so impactful to go off ofwhat you were saying earlier,
Sony, that as educators, we knowwhat we know.
So if you teach in middleschool, you say, I'm getting you
ready for high school.
But really, we actually don'tknow that for sure.
We just know what our experiencewas.
So we're telling you what you'llneed to do when we went to high
school.
Yeah.
But even that landscape ischanging, it's evolving.
(15:44):
And so we don't alwaysnecessarily know.
So getting them ready for theworkforce, we think we're doing
what we can to get them ready.
SPEAKER_00 (15:51):
Well, we're still heavily pushing a four-year
degree.
That's the other thing that Ithink we have to get outside of
our box.
Like not everyone needs afour-year degree anymore, or
take the year to work for acompany, figure out what you
actually do and don't like.
Because 18's a really young ageto decide what you want to do
for the rest of your life.
SPEAKER_03 (16:10):
We want to prepare students for their future, not
our past.
Yeah.
I read a lot of other people'squotes, so I don't know where
that one came from.
SPEAKER_01 (16:22):
But somebody my out-of-the-gate question, which
you correctly renavigated us toa better starting spot, was
about STEM education.
And I think my question for thatis it feels like there's so much
more to STEM.
Yeah.
Especially when we talk with youabout it.
I've heard you talk aboutconvergence education and what
that looks like.
(16:42):
And I feel like we can dive moreinto that if you're up for that.
SPEAKER_03 (16:45):
Yeah.
So here's really how I'd like toframe this.
I'd like to frame this asconvergence education, steel
standards, implementation, whichthey're coming in.
SPEAKER_04 (16:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:54):
And also Pennsylvania's five economic
pillars.
They all this is like we nevertalk about that.
This is the perfect point thatall these things are blending
together.
And I feel like K-12, we arepoised in Pennsylvania for this.
And this is really that wholevision of curiosity through
career.
We need to know what these fivepillars are in Pennsylvania if
(17:16):
we want to keep our homegrowntalent gear.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (17:18):
So I'm going to just take you back a little bit.
At a prior podcast, right here,Change Ed, we talked about
convergence education.
And for a quick refresher ofthat, if you are implementing
skills in a deep way, you areworking towards convergence
education because it is what'scalled transdisciplinary.
Yeah.
(17:39):
Not necessarilycross-disciplinary or
interdisciplinary,transdisciplinary.
There's an evolution there.
There's a continuum.
Transdisciplinary is sort ofthink of project-based learning
with a sort of a stem frame toit.
And those subjects are blendedtogether so well that it's hard
to separate when you're talkingabout one subject or another
(18:02):
subject.
That is the reality of what realworld is about.
When you are in the workforce,you're not just, oh, wait a
minute.
It's map time.
Okay, I can't do any otherthing.
No more media.
I've got to do my map.
It's not.
All those things are comingtogether.
So that is really convergence.
And convergence really is sharedin a couple of places.
(18:23):
So if you want to findconvergence education, you can
Google convergence education andyou'll find it on the Department
of Energy website.
You'll find it on the LemmelsonMIT website.
But mirroring convergenceeducation, really, there's other
convergence that came first.
And people thought this shouldbe happening in education to
prepare people for the realworld.
So there's convergence research.
(18:44):
And we are right now on an R1campus at Penn State, and it is
happening everywhere where allsorts of different colleges,
engineering, ag, AI, are allworking together to collaborate
on solving complex problems thatare going to help the world.
But also, since we are a stateland grant, we are also helping
(19:08):
the economy of Pennsylvania byusing AI and using robotics and
using engineering to helpincrease farm yields in
Pennsylvania, those kind ofthings.
So there's that convergenceresearch.
And then there's industrialconvergence where you have such
big, large-scale projects goingon that even in the business and
(19:29):
industry sector, you've got tohave a lot of different
disciplines coming together.
I would say what's the perfectframe for this?
The perfect frame for this rightnow is AI sustainability.
So we're currently in ageopolitical race for AI
supremacy.
So that's something to thinkabout.
Really, it's like a space raceright now, or if you want to
call it kind of an arms race.
It's it's really a lot of peopleare thinking whoever dominates
(19:52):
AI right now will have an edgecool geopolitically in the
world.
So that um that's something tothink about.
That's something to think about.
Like, do we want the UnitedStates to be that?
Do we want another country to bethat?
I kind of like the United Statesto be that.
So that's a big overarchingdriver.
AI requires advancedsemiconductor technology.
AI has a voracious appetite forelectrons.
(20:14):
Yeah.
It doesn't care where thoseelectrons are coming from, it
just wants a steady flow ofelectrons or energy.
And AI faces extremeenvironmental sustainability
challenges with water usage tocool these giant data centers,
energy, carbon emissions.
And you really can break it downto what's called embodied carbon
emissions.
And that is like all the carbonemissions and energy that's
(20:35):
needed to build the technology,the infrastructure.
And then once it's there, thenthere's operational carbon
emissions.
And that is just keeping thelights running in these data
centers, huge amount.
So, like that is a huge thing.
And there's a lot of regulationsout there that have been
existing for years and years andyears.
And the regulations may not havekept pace with what we have to
(20:57):
do to get these all set.
Yeah.
So it's complicated.
I understand we needsustainability and environment,
but I also understand we we'rein a geopolitical race.
So we we really need to thinkabout how to manage both.
SPEAKER_00 (21:10):
Manage both.
SPEAKER_03 (21:11):
And this is where I believe our students need this
critical thinking to weigh allthese things down, to weigh all
these things so we can beinformed.
So industrial convergence, it ishaving that challenge of having
like at the table for these datacenters, energy institutions,
construction institutions,sustainability institutions,
policy and regulatoryinstitutions all working
(21:32):
together to solve thesechallenges of getting these data
centers up and running so thatwe can have a global competitive
edge.
And then on the researchconvergence side, we are looking
here at Penn State and otheruniversities.
How can we make semiconductorsmore efficient so they don't
have to use so much energy?
Yeah.
How can we make the socialaspect of prompting and letting
(21:53):
people know that the energy usesof prompting and as there's
smarter ways to prompt that as asocial science that we could
save energy?
Like a lot of times we thinkhardware, but people's behavior
can help with this as well.
So that's convergence educationand all that.
So really the PA steel standardsare built for that.
And we're going to get to the PAsteel standards in a minute, but
(22:15):
I want to raise your awarenessof what's called the
Pennsylvania's five economicpillars.
So I don't know how many peopleknow that, but there is an
organization in Pennsylvaniacalled Team PA.
Team PA is an awesomepublic-private partnership.
They sit in Harrisburg.
On their board is the governor,a lot of key Senate and House
legislators.
(22:36):
You think of the Fortune 500companies in Pennsylvania, a lot
of them sit on the board of TeamPA.
President Ben Aputi sits on theboard.
A lot of very big movers andshakers are on this board.
And this board and Team PA isreally there to advise
Pennsylvania on economicdevelopment and economic
priorities.
(22:56):
So they are an independent thinktank that does an awful lot of
research, and they useconvergence as well in their
research to find out assetmapping Pennsylvania.
Where are our strengthseconomically and with workforce?
Like where are we at?
And they've identified fivepillars that I think you will
agree.
This Pennsylvania is pretty goodat this.
Agriculture.
(23:17):
Energy next to Texas, we mightbe the number two energy state
in the country.
Um having energy available.
Wow.
We have natural gas, we have, Ithink, the second largest
nuclear fleet of any otherstate.
We've got biogas, we've gotwind, we've got solar, we've got
hydro, geothermal.
(23:38):
I mean, we have it all oil andgas, coal, like we've got it all
here.
So we are an energy state.
We have been known formanufacturing.
Yeah.
And our manufacturing isevolving from mom and dad's old
manufacturing to this smartmanufacturing that is AI driven,
robotics-driven, automated.
We are also a hub for robotics,AI, and tech.
(24:00):
Think of Pittsburgh, CarnegieMellon, and even think of the
Philly area, a lot of tech andAI and semiconductor hotbeds
there.
And then the life sciences.
Again, think of UPMC out inPittsburgh.
Think of all the biotech firmsin Philadelphia.
So those are the five sectors.
(24:20):
So if we want to havePennsylvania thrive in the
economy, we've got to thinkabout them for a lens, K-12 to
have a homegrown workforce sothat we can really bolster
things up.
At Penn State and CSATS, all ourprogramming at CSATS really
hints those five pillars.
We bring teachers in hereworking on solar.
(24:42):
We have the Brizelle reactor.
We have all these things thatare available there in those
five things.
But we add CSATs, we had a sixthpillar, and that sixth pillar is
environmental sustainability.
It is written into our stateconstitution that we respect our
land, our woods.
And that's why we haveenvironmental standards embedded
in the steel skin.
(25:02):
And pulled out.
They're like pulled out.
They are pulled out.
Not many other states have that.
So again, that's something withCSATs that we do this training.
And again, as STEM pioneers, youknow, highlight that for that.
I feel like in K-12, we have tobe aware of where the state is
going with these economicsectors that are really all STEM
sectors.
Yeah.
They're all part of convergence.
(25:24):
And here we come with thesteals.
This is perfect.
Yeah.
Because the steels are set forthis convergence education.
Now, prior to the steals, we hadthe 2002 academic standards,
which were conceived atDickinson College in 1996.
And until I I guess it was lastyear, the the PSSAs and all were
(25:48):
still tied to those 2002 1996standards.
To give you some context, in2004, Google became public.
And in 2007, the iPhone came tothe market.
Oh my god.
Okay.
So just a little.
SPEAKER_00 (26:05):
Well, the world's changed quite a bit.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:07):
I think also when I talk to my kids, we were talking
about when each one of them wereborn.
And then they said, Dad, whenwere you born?
And I said, it started with the19.
And I told them everythingthey're like, you were born in
the 19th century.
SPEAKER_00 (26:21):
You're born in the 1900s?
I'm like, no, not the 1900s.
The 80s.
SPEAKER_01 (26:26):
But when you were saying that, that's where my
mind.
Since we know that we have alarge community of 14-year-olds
who listen to us, yeah.
We can tell them how cool weare.
We know that this is in the 19s.
Yeah.
So you know, their perspectiveis like that was forever ago.
Yeah.
And the fact that that went allthe way up until Steel's
officially this year.
(26:47):
Yeah.
That's a long journey for somuch has changed.
Yeah.
So much has changed.
SPEAKER_00 (26:51):
Tank everything, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (26:52):
I'll go back and kind of talk about my
perspective is my teachingcareer and the peers that I
taught with who were awesome atPalmyra School District.
So, you know, we did do randomasset stemness, but something
that Palmyra did from the verybeginning were PBLs.
In middle school, we had blockscheduling, we had teaming.
So we had control over that.
We all felt that we wanted to doproject-based learning.
(27:16):
And back in the day, we didproject-based learning called
Future World, where we reallyhad students evaluate the
different types of energysources, ag sources.
Like back 35, 40 years ago, wewere doing the work that's upon
us right now.
Nice.
Where kids would have to formcompanies like nuclear companies
and that, and prove that theycould be marketable and
(27:38):
sustainable for the environment.
Like those kids had to do that.
And then we also did other ones.
I remember we did a grasshopperfield study.
The point I'm making with thisis when we did those and we had
to tie them to the 2002standards, it was laborious
beyond laborious because thosestandards were not meant for
convergence transdisciplinary.
(27:59):
So I just remember goingthrough, you know, page after
page after page, trying to makeall the different connections.
And there was no PA context withthe old standards.
There was no connection to anyother discipline like
environment or math or socialstudies or language arts or
career.
These new standards are totallyset up for that.
(28:21):
And if that's not enough, theold standards were really stuck
at low blooms taxonomy.
Yes, they really were.
And I like to think of thingsmore than Bloom.
I like to think of um Webb'sdepth of knowledge.
Because typically, that's howDRC, the contractor for the PSSE
and those, they really thinkabout DOK's depth of knowledge.
(28:43):
And again, the old standards,for the most part, they lived at
a DOK level of one or two, whichis just very low, low-hanging
bar, no challenge.
SPEAKER_00 (28:51):
Memorization.
SPEAKER_03 (28:52):
Memorization.
And really the SEALs are goingto be pushing DOKs of three and
four, which is the authenticapplication.
So again, this is reallyperfect.
And the the SEAL standardsreally is talking about
performance expectations.
And that language wasn't in theold standards.
Like, what is it that thestudents are physically going to
(29:12):
show you or have to do?
And that's real world.
That is totally real world.
It's exciting.
Because your phone can do alllow-level stuff.
Yes.
But it's the critical thinkingthat's going to make you more
employable in this AI-drivenworld.
And these standards are reallydesigned to do that.
And again, you're going to seethat these standards have ties
(29:33):
to local context and localphenomena.
Career-ready standards are rightthere.
They're built right in there.
And then you can see that theyalso have the ag standards
correlated there.
PA core standards are in there.
Like it is all, it's thecomplete package.
So if you were doing a PBL, andif you're new to PBLs, I would
(29:54):
say take baby steps, just getyour feet wet a little bit and
make a little diverted.
Just a little diverse.
Yeah.
And let's see like what you canadd each year with a little bit
more delving into this PBLbecause that's going to get you
your convergence.
That's going to get you to thethings you need to really be
with this.
I'm also going to say a thingabout AI.
I would also think about havingyou consider doing horizontal
(30:17):
implementation of AI, wherestudents are using AI as a
thought partner in this wholeprocess.
Again, in line with your schooldistrict's policy, but as a
thought partner, here's how Iwould see it.
Like if I was back in theclassroom teaching and I was
doing project-based learning andI had students like
traditionally in groups of four,I would have my students now in
(30:39):
a group of three and have thatfourth person be the AI thought
partner.
Love it.
And I would elevate the rigorand say, and then the kids may
say, well, this is so hard.
Like you have a thought partnernow.
You're going to have to use thisfor employability.
As a matter of fact, right now,our students who graduated last
year, a lot of the questionsthey got, the graduated from
(31:02):
Kent State from their employers,how well do you interact with
AI?
And I would say if you had twoequally qualified candidates for
a job, one understood AI and onedidn't.
The one who understands AI isgoing to get the job.
Yeah, there's no good.
SPEAKER_00 (31:16):
So this has to be something that we also And
they're looking in a safe space,a positive environment, and
they're being taught how tocritically consume it.
That's the part that I thinkthat sometimes we neglect a
little bit, is that we say,yeah, use AI, either use AI or
don't use it at all.
Well yes.
We can't, we can't just let themgo on their own.
And we can't just say don't everuse it.
(31:37):
So we need to make sure usingthe steel standards, I think is
the perfect opportunity to givethem that safe space to try
something out as a criticalthought partner, which will then
help them consume informationlater on because it's only as
good as what you put in.
So they're still getting thingsput out through AI right now
that are may or may not be true.
So it's a really cool way ofgetting them used to using AI in
(32:00):
a productive and safeenvironment.
SPEAKER_03 (32:02):
100%.
And I've been doing AI workshopsfor the past three years around
the state.
And here's a minor concern Ihave.
Yeah.
The minor concern I have is whenI go in and survey teachers who
I'm doing this professionaldevelopment, how many have used
AI in your personal life?
Lately, it's been less than 25%.
SPEAKER_04 (32:22):
Wow.
SPEAKER_03 (32:22):
Okay.
So here's the deal.
If teachers are going to behaving their students use AI,
they've got to use it themselvesto understand what it's like.
To me, it's like having adriver-ed teacher who
consistently takes the bus andalmost never drives.
Be your driver ed teacher.
You wouldn't want to have that.
You know?
(32:42):
And AI is not a subject siloedthing.
It's not just a computer sciencething.
It's not just a referencelibrary thing.
It is in every fabric of thecity.
SPEAKER_00 (32:54):
People don't understand how the complexity of
AI.
It's not just Gemini or Claude.
There's so much more out therethat we just don't even access.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:05):
I love that we have an employee of the Penn State
College of Education with ussaying use AI because I always
still get the AI is getting.
And the way that you just putthe thought partner, I think, is
brilliant as the fourth person,the fourth member in that group
of your PBL group.
Again, all over the state.
SPEAKER_03 (33:22):
Well, again, thinking about thinking about
the workforce aspect of it, ifyou are denying kids the ability
to use safely, as you say, withguardrails and under guidance,
if they don't have the abilityto use AI in K-12, we are
setting them at a disadvantagefor states like Ohio that have
formal policies and things readyto go.
(33:43):
So say that again.
That's great.
Ready to go.
SPEAKER_02 (33:45):
Formal policy, ready to go.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (33:47):
Also use they're they're using it.
We can't be foolish enough tobelieve that the kids are not
using these tools outside ofschool.
Yes.
To your point, really stronglyfeeling is if I don't, as an
educator, set them up topractice it in a safe space,
they're going to use theirpowers for not such good things.
Yes.
And we need to be protecting ourkids.
And I don't think they're goingto go out and most of them are
(34:09):
going to directly do things theyshouldn't be doing.
I think it's going to be Ididn't even know I shouldn't
have done this.
And so I think that's wherewe're doing them a disservice by
not teaching them everythingthat needs to be taught.
SPEAKER_03 (34:20):
Or they won't have the critical thinking to like
they're just going to think it'sthe magic answer.
Whatever is fit out from myperspective.
SPEAKER_00 (34:27):
Already in a very consuming culture right now.
They just consume, consume,consume.
And I I I love this.
I want I want to education.
I'm going to be Jeff's bestfriend.
That's what I mean.
SPEAKER_03 (34:39):
I mean, again, in Pennsylvania, we're at this
phenomenal apex right now of allthese things coming together.
I was at IU28's summit about amonth ago because they are
putting in a ginormous, it'sgoing to be the largest natural
gas-powered data center in NorthAmerica.
Wow.
And it's going to sit in IU28,Homer City.
SPEAKER_04 (35:02):
Wow.
SPEAKER_03 (35:02):
And their whole call on this summit was Curiosity
through career workforcedevelopment for this new age of
data centers.
And the head workforcedevelopment person from Amazon
was there, as well as many otherbig players.
Wow.
And when questioned, the Amazonrepresentative said, you know,
(35:24):
what people were saying, what dothe students need?
He said, they need essentiallythe convergence education, those
critical thinking that, youknow, transdisciplinary, problem
solving, future work.
What they don't need is how welearned.
I love roadblock.
We don't, yeah.
So that's that's what tech issaying.
(35:46):
That's what they want.
That's where we have to go.
Again, getting kids ready fortheir future, not our past.
And I will say we're also superinfrastructure poised for this
because we've got a couple ofthings going on since the
pandemic that's really bolsteredus for this.
We currently, right now, havethe Pennsylvania statewide STEM
(36:07):
ecosystem, which is a statewideecosystem that really is the
convener of the 14 otherregional STEM ecosystems.
If you're not familiar with theSTEM ecosystem, you can Google
it.
But a STEM ecosystem iscollective impact in this whole
realm of curiosity throughcareer workforce development at
the local level, at the localcontrol level.
(36:29):
So we've got that in place.
We have, if you're unfamiliarwith it, we have the
Pennsylvania Statewide AfterSchool Youth Development
Network, SATAN.
They are involved in OST, whichis called out of school time.
That organization just theytrain STEM ambassadors every
year.
This year, we train the STEMambassador cohorts for the SEAL
standards.
So when in the informal space,think of libraries, think of
(36:52):
boys and girls clubs, they areall going to have in the eight
regions of OST aroundPennsylvania with Poseidon, they
all now have resources andtraining to supplement what's
happening in K-12 with SEALs.
We have good work going on in PACareer Ready.
We've got remake learning days.
And we have so many amazing K-12nonprofits.
(37:14):
First robotics, consortium forpublic education.
Like I can go on and on and on.
I feel very optimistic andhopeful.
We just need to make sure thatwe're all coordinated and
communicating together.
And we need to realize there arefive economic pillars that are
part of bigger pillarsnationally, geopolitically.
And we're in good shape to headthis way.
(37:36):
Sometimes we don't see thevision.
We see the trees, we don't seethe forest.
This is the forest, and the puckis heading that way in a very
fast way.
SPEAKER_02 (37:45):
I think this is what teachers need to hear too,
because we get so siloed withour subject.
We have to teach the contentbecause we have to do well in
the PSSA.
Yes.
It's not, it's going to be thenewspaper and payments are going
to be upset.
So the fact that we have thisbig picture now that you just
laid out very well, really well.
I think that's gives us acompletely different thing.
SPEAKER_00 (38:00):
I think our next our next focus needs to be, and I
don't know how we, I'm sure youprobably already have ideas,
Jeff, but how do we even get thefive pillars out?
No one's talking about them atthe levels that we're at.
And we're at like a relativelyhigh-ish level in terms of
disseminating information.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (38:18):
Right.
Right.
Well, see, I always think forthe most part, there's
disconnects between business andindustry.
SPEAKER_00 (38:24):
Yeah.
And without a doubt, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (38:27):
Always.
And that's part of it.
So let's let's start with thepillars.
Let's start right here.
Today, let's start trading now.
And start breaking down this.
And again, you look at the steelstandards.
The steel standards can be ablank canvas that why not, since
they say local context, why notthink about phenomena of like it
(38:48):
aligns perfectly?
Like an AI data center.
Yep.
That could be your phenomena.
Yeah.
Holy cow.
There's so many elements youcould go run with with an AI
data data center.
SPEAKER_00 (38:58):
And then talking about jobs that they've never,
like it's just such a perfectparallel.
It meshes so so well.
SPEAKER_01 (39:04):
When you were talking about those five
economic pillars, the one thingthat I felt was tremendous
Pennsylvanian pride.
Yes.
It also made me think that onepiece that it's to me seems like
we miss in Pennsylvania iscommunicating collectively, like
getting on the same page andworking together.
Going off of the thought processwe've been using that we've been
(39:25):
going more or less fine-load,like, well, this region does
this, or this region does this.
Well, you're taking this moreglobal approach and look at it
and say, like, there's thispowerful things that we do.
Yeah, we don't all do it acrossthe state, but all these amazing
things are happening.
When you were talking about theenergy production, yes, you know
how we how we use it.
I was like, Well, that's that'samazing.
So we fascinate.
SPEAKER_03 (39:46):
I know that.
I want to throw one more thingin there while I'm thinking of
it.
So there's a new phenomenonright now called small modular
reactors.
SPEAKER_04 (39:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (39:53):
Okay.
And a small modular reactor arepretty much cooled by molten
sodium, and they can produce 300megawatts of energy, which you
have one or two of those, youcould have a data center.
And the cool thing about that isWestinghouse in Pittsburgh, both
in Aetna and in Cranberry, ifyou're familiar with those parts
(40:13):
of Western PA, they are buildingthese small modular reactors,
UV-inchies.
So the concept could be theycould put a data center in rural
depressed areas where they needemployment because it doesn't
need the requirements of aregular nuclear reactor.
It is incredibly safe because ituses this molten sodium.
(40:34):
It cannot melt down like youknow, people had feared with
other ones.
What we missed from the ThreeMile Island incident, that was
30 years ago, 40 years ago.
It's in the teens.
In the TS in the 1990s.
Yes, in the teens.
The technology has improveddramatically.
We see it right here at PennState with our Brizell reactor.
(40:56):
Like it is really evolved.
This is the second coming ofwhat I would think is clean
energy, you know, carbon-freeenergy.
And again, Pennsylvania'sleading in this.
SPEAKER_00 (41:07):
Yeah.
That's crazy.
We could talk about that forhours.
SPEAKER_01 (41:10):
Yeah, right.
We could have multiple, multiplepodcasts.
Jeff, here's here's here's whatI'm hearing.
I'm gonna try and do this not atall possible job of summarizing
all these things that are right.
Yeah, first, I heard Jeff saythat he found a way to stop
setting himself on fire byinviting AI into the classroom.
SPEAKER_00 (41:30):
I feel like yes, definitely.
I see how you got there.
SPEAKER_01 (41:34):
Yeah, I guess, yeah.
Yeah, okay.
This is good for us that our NewJersey and West Virginia
listeners are gonna at leastquadruple because now we're now
we'll have four people.
Yeah.
So that's improvement for us.
We'll have four.
Yeah.
One would be great from eitherone of those things.
But more seriously, I think youreally summarized it so well
(41:57):
with the quote by JeffRomington, which was getting our
kids ready for their future, notour past.
SPEAKER_04 (42:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (42:02):
I feel like that is definitely all that's the title.
Because that meetings so hard.
Yeah.
And I know it's something thatwe're all actually working
towards, but to hear someonearticulate it is like, yes,
that's the difference.
SPEAKER_00 (42:15):
What I think you're trying to say is he's definitely
got a finger on the pulse ofwhat's happening and what's
coming.
And it's interesting, you'rekind of living in like a utopia
right now because you've got allof these worlds converging, and
you're able to be in a placewhere you can take that and
translate it so that teacherscan understand it.
And we as educators don't havethe time to do all of this
translating and figuring outwho's here and who's there and
(42:37):
how to make all theseconnections.
And so you're kind of in thisamazing situation where you're
able to take what's happeningand translate it in a way that
allows educators to implement ittomorrow.
Small things like just talkingto the kids about those pillars.
Yeah.
Small things like we're justgonna do one little project and
we're gonna try this one.
Yeah.
And it's it and that's reallyall it takes to become a
(42:57):
snowball.
And I think what we're trying tosay is that you're in living the
dream and are creating all theseopportunities for teachers
through CSATs to be a part ofthat dream.
SPEAKER_03 (43:08):
Yeah, I think that sums it up very well.
SPEAKER_00 (43:10):
Thank you.
I should be the host.
SPEAKER_01 (43:12):
Yeah.
Um I'll keep the argument in.
I mean, I think that you'readvocating.
Oh, there's more.
SPEAKER_00 (43:19):
We just said it.
Thumbs it up.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (43:22):
Absolutely.
But then Jeff will look at melike, please fix it.
SPEAKER_03 (43:25):
I don't think so.
And and I think it's not justeducating the kids, it's
educating the parents.
Yeah.
Because a lot of the parentscould have the thought that,
well, if the education I did wasgood enough for me, it's good
enough for my kids.
I've heard that so many times.
I've heard that over and overand over again.
Rinse and repeat.
Yeah.
It is the world has changed.
And I think everyone realizesthat.
(43:46):
The world is changing rapidly.
Yeah.
And old thinking is not going tocut it in this rapidly changing.
SPEAKER_02 (43:52):
I wish we could stop giving A, B,'s and C's for math
and then give grades on criticalthinking.
Yes.
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (43:59):
A, B, and C are not going to cut it in the new
world.
That's not really where thoseanswers remain.
SPEAKER_00 (44:04):
But you can earn a C and still be one of the best
critical thinkers on Facebook.
So you still get to like that'sthe thing.
Like, you could get it an F.
I don't care.
You're a really great criticalthinker.
Maybe you're just nottranslating it right there into
that current content.
SPEAKER_01 (44:15):
Honestly, usually we have one big idea that we're
sharing in a podcast.
And I mean 95.
And all the new terms, like thetransdisciplinary, learning.
SPEAKER_00 (44:24):
That's not new.
Def and I have been talkingabout that for that.
SPEAKER_01 (44:27):
Your brain grew back.
SPEAKER_00 (44:28):
No, I'm just kidding, because I did that
Steph Ambassadors thing, andJeff was there, and that's where
I learned about it.
SPEAKER_01 (44:33):
I like the convergence idea.
Convergent research, industrialconvergence, right?
Like all these things and eventhe five pillars.
There's so much here.
And to your point, we need to beambassadors and sharing this out
and hoping others fill it.
We don't know what we don'tknow.
Yeah.
Or we do know what we know.
So that's what kind of whatwe're saying.
We get stuck in that spot.
SPEAKER_03 (44:52):
And I feel like we also have to say, business and
industry, get us at the table.
We are ready to help, but we'vegot to be part of the
conversation.
SPEAKER_00 (44:59):
And what I'm finding too with business and industry,
especially through theecosystem, is they're super
eager to come in and have theseconversations because they want
our kids to come out ready towork.
SPEAKER_03 (45:10):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (45:11):
And stay in Pennsylvania.
So making those connections andlove and policymakers want that.
SPEAKER_03 (45:16):
It's gonna bolster the tech space.
SPEAKER_00 (45:18):
And it's a win-win for everybody.
SPEAKER_01 (45:21):
Just gotta talk to people.
Be sure to like and subscribeand for more Jeff Remington.
Welcome back.
I didn't hit record on here.
You didn't tell me you wereready.
You said we weren't going yet.
Okay.
Are you sure we're ready?
Ready?
Are you ready?
I'm ready.
SPEAKER_01 (00:10):
Okay, welcome back to Change It.
Changed Changed.
The number one educationalpodcast in all of Pennsylvania.
Creeping into the Pennsylvania.
SPEAKER_00 (00:24):
I thought we were worldwide.
Well, I like to bring it upbecause I did just talk to my
niece in Scotland, and she saidthey're listening over there.
SPEAKER_01 (00:31):
So we are world renowned.
SPEAKER_00 (00:33):
With 14-year-olds in Scotland.
SPEAKER_01 (00:38):
I am your host, Andrew Kuhn, Education
Consultant from MontgomeryCounty Intermediate Unit.
And here with me is Tony.
SPEAKER_00 (00:46):
I'm Patrice.
Thanks, Tony.
I'm Patrice Semichek, also atthe Montgomery County
Intermediate Unit EducationalConsultant.
I forgot to say that.
SPEAKER_02 (00:58):
SDF.
SDF, whatever title you want togive me is okay with.
That's okay with me at thispoint.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03):
It's been SDF for a while, don't I shock?
SPEAKER_01 (01:05):
Yeah.
I'm very excited about thispodcast because we are back in
our origin town when the podcastbecame more of a reality.
SPEAKER_00 (01:15):
And before when I was sitting there, actively a
part of the conversation, butnot allowed to be in the initial
PO podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (01:22):
It's all on Andrew.
SPEAKER_01 (01:23):
You know, it's interesting about history.
It can be retold.
It can be adjusted.
SPEAKER_00 (01:29):
Except the record show I was not involved in any
of them.
That's cool.
I'm not salty.
SPEAKER_01 (01:35):
Moving forward we threw our jobs, have the
opportunity to come up to PennState quarterly and meet with
other like-minds, but alsoexpand our network.
Better minds.
SPEAKER_00 (01:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:48):
And one of those individuals is our guest today
who has definitely expanded ournetwork and also empowered us in
the work that we're doing.
Repeat guests.
Repeat guests, backed by populardemand.
So look, you're also ahead with14 years old.
Well, we're here with JeffRemington, who works at Penn
(02:10):
State with the Center forScience in the schools.
Correct.
CSATS for shorts.
CSATS.
You have amazing things that aregoing on all the time.
I always learn somethingwhenever I talk to Jeff
Remington.
But I know with the work and themomentum that's going on with
CSATS, you are looking beyondnow.
(02:32):
You're looking beyond what'shappening in the current
landscape.
Because there's a lot happeningin the current landscape.
We just left the trainingtalking about AI and you know
getting people on board.
But if I understand correctlyfrom our conversations, you're
not talking about today or eventomorrow, but you're kind of
looking a little further ahead.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_03 (02:50):
I love to use the Wayne Gretzky quote.
Uh, we don't skate to the puck,we skate to where the puck is
going.
And at this level up here, atour one research institution
that's heavily invested in whatthe state is doing and economic
initiatives, we we are seeingwhere that puck is going and
that puck is moving fast.
SPEAKER_01 (03:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
We talk so much at theintermediate unit level and even
in our schools about STEM.
And it's you know, STEM is is abig focus of that.
So where does CSAS live intothat?
What does it look like in yourworld with the with the SEM?
Is it kind of focused on youknow the science, technology, uh
(03:30):
technology, engineering, andmathematics?
Is it bigger than that?
Are we what do we not know thatyou know?
SPEAKER_03 (03:36):
Yeah, so well, let me let me just uh tell you a
little bit about what CSATS isuh as a refresher for if for
those of you that may not knowus.
We are a center in the Collegeof Education that serves all of
Penn State University, all thecolleges, engineering,
agriculture, whatever.
We are what's called a broaderimpacts unit.
(03:56):
We translate cutting-edge STEMresearch work by AI researchers,
engineers, ag scientists, youname it.
We translate that into what Ilike to call Curiosity Through
Career Workforce Development forK-12, K-16, all across the
Commonwealth as part of what'scalled our land grant mission.
(04:20):
And in that, we get to do somereally cool things.
We get to see what's the cuttingedge in these technologies.
We have programs, some that payteachers to come and embed
themselves in STEM researchthat's happening from AI to ag
to engineering to biomedical,you name it.
(04:43):
We we have it in there.
We just recently were notifiedthat we were awarded a very big
NSF grant.
It's a$5 million grant for fiveyears.
It is a bit of a holdout fromthe Chips and Science Act
dealing with the semiconductors.
It was a call for and itcontinues to be a call for, a
national STEM teacher corps.
(05:03):
And this is to have a nationwideelite core of STEM teachers that
are practicing teachers in theclassroom.
But over the next five years,um, institutions like ours,
there's only seven institutionsthat were awarded this in the
whole United States.
Institutions like ours will beon a call to try uh and recruit
(05:26):
27 elementary teachers that wantto become these super STEM
teachers to elevate their peers,to elevate their students, to
elevate their schools, theirregions.
This grant, this$5 milliongrant, is in conjunction with
two other states, West VirginiaUniversity and all of West
Virginia, and the College of NewJersey and all of New Jersey.
SPEAKER_04 (05:48):
Wow.
SPEAKER_03 (05:49):
So we're seeking 27 teachers for this, okay to five
teachers, nine teachers for eachstate.
So we're looking for nineteachers in Pennsylvania.
These teachers will get$10,000 ayear as a stipend.
They're just going to stay inthe classroom.
Their summers are going to bepretty much spent doing work
with us as we're going to showthem where the puck is going,
(06:10):
really get them supercharged,support them, give them the
capacity that during the schoolyears, then over the next four
to five years, they will go backinto their schools, into their
regions, statewide, and evenmid-Atlantic and do this work to
get teachers to this next level.
So if you're interested, yeah,stay tuned to us by subscribing
(06:32):
to our newsletter.
And you can find that at asubscription at CSATS.psu.edu or
look for us at CSATS onLinkedIn, on Facebook, or on
Twitter.
SPEAKER_00 (06:43):
I'm a little sad I'm not in the classroom anymore
because that seems like such apowerful way of embedding it,
trying it out.
And then the first time I heardyou speak was about things you
were doing in your classroom.
So I think that the impact,while we're at IUs, we can talk
about theory and things thatthey should be doing.
Hearing from someone who ispractically like implementing it
(07:05):
as is and living it andbreathing it and perfecting it
is going to be so much moreimpactful and such a game
changer.
I'm so jealous.
SPEAKER_03 (07:13):
I I feel it's like it's like learning a language.
Yeah.
Theoretically learn a languagein class, but unless you're
immersed and embedded in it,exactly.
Yes, you don't really get itunless you see it in the
context.
And that's what this is gonnabe.
This is gonna be an immersion.
They're gonna be ambassadorwanting to have a teacher.
They're gonna be an ambassador.
SPEAKER_02 (07:32):
This is near and dear to me because I taught
fourth and fifth grade for 10years, and then I was an
elementary principal.
And we did have a STEM class,but it was kind of thrown
together last minute as aspecial.
They always grabbed the techieteacher, you know, in the
school, and they did their best,and they were awesome at what
they did.
I'll qualify.
SPEAKER_03 (07:51):
It's not gonna be random acts of STEM-ness.
Yes.
That's sort of the thing.
SPEAKER_00 (07:55):
It is STEM infusion.
SPEAKER_03 (07:57):
It is gonna be authentic workforce development.
It's a dream.
It is really gonna be amazing.
That's not the only thing wegot.
Of course not.
Of course not.
So we will be working with thegovernment of Pennsylvania to do
a series of AI K-12 town hallsacross Pennsylvania.
We'll be doing this uh sevenregional town halls and one
(08:19):
online.
We'll look for that in the fall,uh, late fall of 25 and in the
spring of 26.
It'll be coming to a Penn StateCommonwealth campus near you.
We are going to bring with us onthis town hall roadshow a panel
of experts from up here at PennState that are AI researchers
and policy researchers,evaluators, and seasoned
(08:41):
teachers that have decades ofK-12 experience to bring that
practical booth on the ground.
Again, stay tuned with oursocial media or our newsletter
to be in touch with this.
It is also gonna be this townhall is also gonna be a
listening session.
We're gonna understand what arepeople feeling in K-12.
Yeah, what are fears, what arehopes?
(09:02):
Our evaluator is gonna take allthat into account, and we'll be
able to have a detailed reportwhen we're done to help inform
where Pennsylvania wants to gofrom here.
SPEAKER_02 (09:11):
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_03 (09:12):
As if that's not enough, the National Academies
of Science have a report thatyou can currently look at.
It's um the K-12 Rural STEM andWorkforce Development report
that they have out that is veryvery salient across the country,
but very salient right here inPennsylvania.
They have reached out to us, andwe are in the early stages of a
(09:35):
potential summit around that inlate spring, early summer next
year.
Again, very early stages.
But if you want to keep in touchwith us, yeah, follow us on
socials, and that kind of blendsinto what we're really going to
be talking about today.
(09:56):
I will say, follow us on our onour socials and all.
You will see we have tons ofother opportunities, too many to
mention here, that come up on aregular basis, depending on
what's happening with Penn Stateresearchers.
I mean, we are cutting edges.
What are they doing next week?
Well, let's build a program.
SPEAKER_00 (10:12):
It's very cool.
That's how we we that's how wecame together.
Yeah, that's how we cametogether.
We were out of CSAS training onYES, yeah, engineering.
And the the program itself wasphenomenal.
The whole experience wasamazing.
I can't say enough about theamazing things you guys do here
and the partners that you have.
So yeah, we talked abouteverybody.
SPEAKER_03 (10:33):
Yeah, uh being used.
That's that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (10:35):
Two years later, that's awesome.
Dr.
Christine Cunningham.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (10:38):
She is a rock star.
SPEAKER_00 (10:40):
It was it was a fabulous, a fabulous week.
It was great.
SPEAKER_03 (10:43):
Yeah, that's great.
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
And for our listeners, if you put in the
promo code change ed, you getzero off.
A signed picture for Andrew.
SPEAKER_00 (10:55):
That's only picture of Andrew with no facial hair.
That's what you get assignednaked face picture of Andrew
here and buying.
SPEAKER_01 (11:02):
The one thing that I that I am excited about that as
well is that what you said withWest Virginia and with New
Jersey, they're still in ourarea, right?
So it's a great opportunity forcollaboration and working
together.
What stood out to me most, evenwhen you two were talking about
it, is that one-off PDs aremoving into the pasting in the
past.
SPEAKER_00 (11:23):
Well, and they should be because they're not
effective.
We all know they're noteffective.
SPEAKER_01 (11:25):
But the buck is nowhere near there, right?
Yeah, there is no buck.
And so, but this opportunity islike we're saying, I think it's
the life changing actually,because then you can't unsee
that anymore.
You look at everything that way,and it would take an entire
career of once-a-day originaldevelopment and not even get
close to where you'll be afteryour first summer of doing this.
(11:48):
Yes, and you've got five packsummers.
Yeah.
So the multiplication factor istremendous, not only in their
own career, but then within theschools and where they're
working and there are theeducators.
So the vacuum effect, which Iimagine was a big part of how
this was planned, is tremendous.
Yes.
You have this buy-in that'slike, no, no, no, keep working,
(12:09):
keep doing it.
Yes.
And would even be tremendous aswe rolled out steels to have
been able to do something likethis where you had educators.
Just embedded learning itself isjust yeah, but just like how can
we pause and like you justreally soak this in, and then it
would just the buy-in would bedifferent because you've got
people who are just socommitted.
Yeah, yeah.
Versus you're trying to do theold, you're trying to learn the
(12:30):
new, you're you know, you'resprinkling it in.
So I I definitely applaud thiswork.
And Tony's already filling outhis application.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:39):
I'm looking into I love that we're maybe I'll go
back.
I love that we're talking aboutK-12 workforce development
already because I don't think usas elementary folk understand
the impact that we have furtherdown the line with STEM careers
and STEM practice because youjust said I'm gonna use that
random acts of stemness.
Yeah, I'm gonna use that forevernow.
Thank you.
Yeah, I think it's so importantfor these young because they can
(13:00):
you speak to that a little bitof where that comes from and and
the research done behind it.
SPEAKER_03 (13:03):
I'll tell you a little bit about random acts of
stemness.
To me, I feel like it's what Idid when I started teaching 35
years ago.
Yeah.
Well, actually, it was fouryears ago now.
I wanted to be, and I thinkyoung teachers want this.
It's self-gratifying.
It's like being that teacher.
Being this being the star on thestage.
So I would set myself on fire,set students on fire, literally.
(13:28):
I would eat kissing cockroaches,I would just do like Mr.
Wizard stuff all the time.
Yeah, edutainment.
Yeah.
And like five years down theroad, I realized I thought that
would hook the kids into wantingto learn deeper.
And it never really did.
They kept saying, Mr.
Rem, burn something else, closesomething else up.
Like they wanted to beentertained.
Eat another leg.
(13:49):
They didn't, yeah, they didn'treally want to learn.
And then I started to dive intoother things, got involved in
seeing what researchers weredoing at the College of
Medicine, and realized what Iwas doing was nothing like what
was happening in real lab.
So, like, what can I do to getkids there?
So that really is the wholeconcept of like thinking about
(14:12):
STEM workforce development.
And elementary is the keybecause I think business and
industry right now, they thinkthat if they get kids their
senior year, they're golden.
No, that's what kids have tomake their decision, like start
thinking about this.
And parents, parents have to beeducated.
I would say by you know mid tolate elementary school, so that
(14:33):
they can start thinking aboutthose tracks in middle school to
get there.
Uh, for instance, right now,smart manufacturing and
manufacturing is a big thingright now.
It's a big initiative.
And if you talk to parents,parents would think, oh, like
they think steel mills andthings like that.
The manufacturing is totallydifferent now.
It is clean manufacturing, smartmanufacturing.
(14:54):
Technicians can have familysustaining careers with plenty
of advancement and college paidfor by these companies with as
little as one extra year of workafter high school to get these
smart manufacturing technicianjobs.
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
There's a whole world out there that we just
don't even know or allow accessto.
Like we just don't even knowabout any of it.
SPEAKER_02 (15:16):
Education doesn't understand the business world,
and the business world doesn'tunderstand education in a lot of
sectors.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (15:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:23):
Right.
What's so impactful to go off ofwhat you were saying earlier,
Sony, that as educators, we knowwhat we know.
So if you teach in middleschool, you say, I'm getting you
ready for high school.
But really, we actually don'tknow that for sure.
We just know what our experiencewas.
So we're telling you what you'llneed to do when we went to high
school.
Yeah.
But even that landscape ischanging, it's evolving.
(15:44):
And so we don't alwaysnecessarily know.
So getting them ready for theworkforce, we think we're doing
what we can to get them ready.
SPEAKER_00 (15:51):
Well, we're still heavily pushing a four-year
degree.
That's the other thing that Ithink we have to get outside of
our box.
Like not everyone needs afour-year degree anymore, or
take the year to work for acompany, figure out what you
actually do and don't like.
Because 18's a really young ageto decide what you want to do
for the rest of your life.
SPEAKER_03 (16:10):
We want to prepare students for their future, not
our past.
Yeah.
I read a lot of other people'squotes, so I don't know where
that one came from.
SPEAKER_01 (16:22):
But somebody my out-of-the-gate question, which
you correctly renavigated us toa better starting spot, was
about STEM education.
And I think my question for thatis it feels like there's so much
more to STEM.
Yeah.
Especially when we talk with youabout it.
I've heard you talk aboutconvergence education and what
that looks like.
(16:42):
And I feel like we can dive moreinto that if you're up for that.
SPEAKER_03 (16:45):
Yeah.
So here's really how I'd like toframe this.
I'd like to frame this asconvergence education, steel
standards, implementation, whichthey're coming in.
SPEAKER_04 (16:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:54):
And also Pennsylvania's five economic
pillars.
They all this is like we nevertalk about that.
This is the perfect point thatall these things are blending
together.
And I feel like K-12, we arepoised in Pennsylvania for this.
And this is really that wholevision of curiosity through
career.
We need to know what these fivepillars are in Pennsylvania if
(17:16):
we want to keep our homegrowntalent gear.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (17:18):
So I'm going to just take you back a little bit.
At a prior podcast, right here,Change Ed, we talked about
convergence education.
And for a quick refresher ofthat, if you are implementing
skills in a deep way, you areworking towards convergence
education because it is what'scalled transdisciplinary.
Yeah.
(17:39):
Not necessarilycross-disciplinary or
interdisciplinary,transdisciplinary.
There's an evolution there.
There's a continuum.
Transdisciplinary is sort ofthink of project-based learning
with a sort of a stem frame toit.
And those subjects are blendedtogether so well that it's hard
to separate when you're talkingabout one subject or another
(18:02):
subject.
That is the reality of what realworld is about.
When you are in the workforce,you're not just, oh, wait a
minute.
It's map time.
Okay, I can't do any otherthing.
No more media.
I've got to do my map.
It's not.
All those things are comingtogether.
So that is really convergence.
And convergence really is sharedin a couple of places.
(18:23):
So if you want to findconvergence education, you can
Google convergence education andyou'll find it on the Department
of Energy website.
You'll find it on the LemmelsonMIT website.
But mirroring convergenceeducation, really, there's other
convergence that came first.
And people thought this shouldbe happening in education to
prepare people for the realworld.
So there's convergence research.
(18:44):
And we are right now on an R1campus at Penn State, and it is
happening everywhere where allsorts of different colleges,
engineering, ag, AI, are allworking together to collaborate
on solving complex problems thatare going to help the world.
But also, since we are a stateland grant, we are also helping
(19:08):
the economy of Pennsylvania byusing AI and using robotics and
using engineering to helpincrease farm yields in
Pennsylvania, those kind ofthings.
So there's that convergenceresearch.
And then there's industrialconvergence where you have such
big, large-scale projects goingon that even in the business and
(19:29):
industry sector, you've got tohave a lot of different
disciplines coming together.
I would say what's the perfectframe for this?
The perfect frame for this rightnow is AI sustainability.
So we're currently in ageopolitical race for AI
supremacy.
So that's something to thinkabout.
Really, it's like a space raceright now, or if you want to
call it kind of an arms race.
It's it's really a lot of peopleare thinking whoever dominates
(19:52):
AI right now will have an edgecool geopolitically in the
world.
So that um that's something tothink about.
That's something to think about.
Like, do we want the UnitedStates to be that?
Do we want another country to bethat?
I kind of like the United Statesto be that.
So that's a big overarchingdriver.
AI requires advancedsemiconductor technology.
AI has a voracious appetite forelectrons.
(20:14):
Yeah.
It doesn't care where thoseelectrons are coming from, it
just wants a steady flow ofelectrons or energy.
And AI faces extremeenvironmental sustainability
challenges with water usage tocool these giant data centers,
energy, carbon emissions.
And you really can break it downto what's called embodied carbon
emissions.
And that is like all the carbonemissions and energy that's
(20:35):
needed to build the technology,the infrastructure.
And then once it's there, thenthere's operational carbon
emissions.
And that is just keeping thelights running in these data
centers, huge amount.
So, like that is a huge thing.
And there's a lot of regulationsout there that have been
existing for years and years andyears.
And the regulations may not havekept pace with what we have to
(20:57):
do to get these all set.
Yeah.
So it's complicated.
I understand we needsustainability and environment,
but I also understand we we'rein a geopolitical race.
So we we really need to thinkabout how to manage both.
SPEAKER_00 (21:10):
Manage both.
SPEAKER_03 (21:11):
And this is where I believe our students need this
critical thinking to weigh allthese things down, to weigh all
these things so we can beinformed.
So industrial convergence, it ishaving that challenge of having
like at the table for these datacenters, energy institutions,
construction institutions,sustainability institutions,
policy and regulatoryinstitutions all working
(21:32):
together to solve thesechallenges of getting these data
centers up and running so thatwe can have a global competitive
edge.
And then on the researchconvergence side, we are looking
here at Penn State and otheruniversities.
How can we make semiconductorsmore efficient so they don't
have to use so much energy?
Yeah.
How can we make the socialaspect of prompting and letting
(21:53):
people know that the energy usesof prompting and as there's
smarter ways to prompt that as asocial science that we could
save energy?
Like a lot of times we thinkhardware, but people's behavior
can help with this as well.
So that's convergence educationand all that.
So really the PA steel standardsare built for that.
And we're going to get to the PAsteel standards in a minute, but
(22:15):
I want to raise your awarenessof what's called the
Pennsylvania's five economicpillars.
So I don't know how many peopleknow that, but there is an
organization in Pennsylvaniacalled Team PA.
Team PA is an awesomepublic-private partnership.
They sit in Harrisburg.
On their board is the governor,a lot of key Senate and House
legislators.
(22:36):
You think of the Fortune 500companies in Pennsylvania, a lot
of them sit on the board of TeamPA.
President Ben Aputi sits on theboard.
A lot of very big movers andshakers are on this board.
And this board and Team PA isreally there to advise
Pennsylvania on economicdevelopment and economic
priorities.
(22:56):
So they are an independent thinktank that does an awful lot of
research, and they useconvergence as well in their
research to find out assetmapping Pennsylvania.
Where are our strengthseconomically and with workforce?
Like where are we at?
And they've identified fivepillars that I think you will
agree.
This Pennsylvania is pretty goodat this.
Agriculture.
(23:17):
Energy next to Texas, we mightbe the number two energy state
in the country.
Um having energy available.
Wow.
We have natural gas, we have, Ithink, the second largest
nuclear fleet of any otherstate.
We've got biogas, we've gotwind, we've got solar, we've got
hydro, geothermal.
(23:38):
I mean, we have it all oil andgas, coal, like we've got it all
here.
So we are an energy state.
We have been known formanufacturing.
Yeah.
And our manufacturing isevolving from mom and dad's old
manufacturing to this smartmanufacturing that is AI driven,
robotics-driven, automated.
We are also a hub for robotics,AI, and tech.
(24:00):
Think of Pittsburgh, CarnegieMellon, and even think of the
Philly area, a lot of tech andAI and semiconductor hotbeds
there.
And then the life sciences.
Again, think of UPMC out inPittsburgh.
Think of all the biotech firmsin Philadelphia.
So those are the five sectors.
(24:20):
So if we want to havePennsylvania thrive in the
economy, we've got to thinkabout them for a lens, K-12 to
have a homegrown workforce sothat we can really bolster
things up.
At Penn State and CSATS, all ourprogramming at CSATS really
hints those five pillars.
We bring teachers in hereworking on solar.
(24:42):
We have the Brizelle reactor.
We have all these things thatare available there in those
five things.
But we add CSATs, we had a sixthpillar, and that sixth pillar is
environmental sustainability.
It is written into our stateconstitution that we respect our
land, our woods.
And that's why we haveenvironmental standards embedded
in the steel skin.
(25:02):
And pulled out.
They're like pulled out.
They are pulled out.
Not many other states have that.
So again, that's something withCSATs that we do this training.
And again, as STEM pioneers, youknow, highlight that for that.
I feel like in K-12, we have tobe aware of where the state is
going with these economicsectors that are really all STEM
sectors.
Yeah.
They're all part of convergence.
(25:24):
And here we come with thesteals.
This is perfect.
Yeah.
Because the steels are set forthis convergence education.
Now, prior to the steals, we hadthe 2002 academic standards,
which were conceived atDickinson College in 1996.
And until I I guess it was lastyear, the the PSSAs and all were
(25:48):
still tied to those 2002 1996standards.
To give you some context, in2004, Google became public.
And in 2007, the iPhone came tothe market.
Oh my god.
Okay.
So just a little.
SPEAKER_00 (26:05):
Well, the world's changed quite a bit.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:07):
I think also when I talk to my kids, we were talking
about when each one of them wereborn.
And then they said, Dad, whenwere you born?
And I said, it started with the19.
And I told them everythingthey're like, you were born in
the 19th century.
SPEAKER_00 (26:21):
You're born in the 1900s?
I'm like, no, not the 1900s.
The 80s.
SPEAKER_01 (26:26):
But when you were saying that, that's where my
mind.
Since we know that we have alarge community of 14-year-olds
who listen to us, yeah.
We can tell them how cool weare.
We know that this is in the 19s.
Yeah.
So you know, their perspectiveis like that was forever ago.
Yeah.
And the fact that that went allthe way up until Steel's
officially this year.
(26:47):
Yeah.
That's a long journey for somuch has changed.
Yeah.
So much has changed.
SPEAKER_00 (26:51):
Tank everything, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (26:52):
I'll go back and kind of talk about my
perspective is my teachingcareer and the peers that I
taught with who were awesome atPalmyra School District.
So, you know, we did do randomasset stemness, but something
that Palmyra did from the verybeginning were PBLs.
In middle school, we had blockscheduling, we had teaming.
So we had control over that.
We all felt that we wanted to doproject-based learning.
(27:16):
And back in the day, we didproject-based learning called
Future World, where we reallyhad students evaluate the
different types of energysources, ag sources.
Like back 35, 40 years ago, wewere doing the work that's upon
us right now.
Nice.
Where kids would have to formcompanies like nuclear companies
and that, and prove that theycould be marketable and
(27:38):
sustainable for the environment.
Like those kids had to do that.
And then we also did other ones.
I remember we did a grasshopperfield study.
The point I'm making with thisis when we did those and we had
to tie them to the 2002standards, it was laborious
beyond laborious because thosestandards were not meant for
convergence transdisciplinary.
(27:59):
So I just remember goingthrough, you know, page after
page after page, trying to makeall the different connections.
And there was no PA context withthe old standards.
There was no connection to anyother discipline like
environment or math or socialstudies or language arts or
career.
These new standards are totallyset up for that.
(28:21):
And if that's not enough, theold standards were really stuck
at low blooms taxonomy.
Yes, they really were.
And I like to think of thingsmore than Bloom.
I like to think of um Webb'sdepth of knowledge.
Because typically, that's howDRC, the contractor for the PSSE
and those, they really thinkabout DOK's depth of knowledge.
(28:43):
And again, the old standards,for the most part, they lived at
a DOK level of one or two, whichis just very low, low-hanging
bar, no challenge.
SPEAKER_00 (28:51):
Memorization.
SPEAKER_03 (28:52):
Memorization.
And really the SEALs are goingto be pushing DOKs of three and
four, which is the authenticapplication.
So again, this is reallyperfect.
And the the SEAL standardsreally is talking about
performance expectations.
And that language wasn't in theold standards.
Like, what is it that thestudents are physically going to
(29:12):
show you or have to do?
And that's real world.
That is totally real world.
It's exciting.
Because your phone can do alllow-level stuff.
Yes.
But it's the critical thinkingthat's going to make you more
employable in this AI-drivenworld.
And these standards are reallydesigned to do that.
And again, you're going to seethat these standards have ties
(29:33):
to local context and localphenomena.
Career-ready standards are rightthere.
They're built right in there.
And then you can see that theyalso have the ag standards
correlated there.
PA core standards are in there.
Like it is all, it's thecomplete package.
So if you were doing a PBL, andif you're new to PBLs, I would
(29:54):
say take baby steps, just getyour feet wet a little bit and
make a little diverted.
Just a little diverse.
Yeah.
And let's see like what you canadd each year with a little bit
more delving into this PBLbecause that's going to get you
your convergence.
That's going to get you to thethings you need to really be
with this.
I'm also going to say a thingabout AI.
I would also think about havingyou consider doing horizontal
(30:17):
implementation of AI, wherestudents are using AI as a
thought partner in this wholeprocess.
Again, in line with your schooldistrict's policy, but as a
thought partner, here's how Iwould see it.
Like if I was back in theclassroom teaching and I was
doing project-based learning andI had students like
traditionally in groups of four,I would have my students now in
(30:39):
a group of three and have thatfourth person be the AI thought
partner.
Love it.
And I would elevate the rigorand say, and then the kids may
say, well, this is so hard.
Like you have a thought partnernow.
You're going to have to use thisfor employability.
As a matter of fact, right now,our students who graduated last
year, a lot of the questionsthey got, the graduated from
(31:02):
Kent State from their employers,how well do you interact with
AI?
And I would say if you had twoequally qualified candidates for
a job, one understood AI and onedidn't.
The one who understands AI isgoing to get the job.
Yeah, there's no good.
SPEAKER_00 (31:16):
So this has to be something that we also And
they're looking in a safe space,a positive environment, and
they're being taught how tocritically consume it.
That's the part that I thinkthat sometimes we neglect a
little bit, is that we say,yeah, use AI, either use AI or
don't use it at all.
Well yes.
We can't, we can't just let themgo on their own.
And we can't just say don't everuse it.
(31:37):
So we need to make sure usingthe steel standards, I think is
the perfect opportunity to givethem that safe space to try
something out as a criticalthought partner, which will then
help them consume informationlater on because it's only as
good as what you put in.
So they're still getting thingsput out through AI right now
that are may or may not be true.
So it's a really cool way ofgetting them used to using AI in
(32:00):
a productive and safeenvironment.
SPEAKER_03 (32:02):
100%.
And I've been doing AI workshopsfor the past three years around
the state.
And here's a minor concern Ihave.
Yeah.
The minor concern I have is whenI go in and survey teachers who
I'm doing this professionaldevelopment, how many have used
AI in your personal life?
Lately, it's been less than 25%.
SPEAKER_04 (32:22):
Wow.
SPEAKER_03 (32:22):
Okay.
So here's the deal.
If teachers are going to behaving their students use AI,
they've got to use it themselvesto understand what it's like.
To me, it's like having adriver-ed teacher who
consistently takes the bus andalmost never drives.
Be your driver ed teacher.
You wouldn't want to have that.
You know?
(32:42):
And AI is not a subject siloedthing.
It's not just a computer sciencething.
It's not just a referencelibrary thing.
It is in every fabric of thecity.
SPEAKER_00 (32:54):
People don't understand how the complexity of
AI.
It's not just Gemini or Claude.
There's so much more out therethat we just don't even access.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:05):
I love that we have an employee of the Penn State
College of Education with ussaying use AI because I always
still get the AI is getting.
And the way that you just putthe thought partner, I think, is
brilliant as the fourth person,the fourth member in that group
of your PBL group.
Again, all over the state.
SPEAKER_03 (33:22):
Well, again, thinking about thinking about
the workforce aspect of it, ifyou are denying kids the ability
to use safely, as you say, withguardrails and under guidance,
if they don't have the abilityto use AI in K-12, we are
setting them at a disadvantagefor states like Ohio that have
formal policies and things readyto go.
(33:43):
So say that again.
That's great.
Ready to go.
SPEAKER_02 (33:45):
Formal policy, ready to go.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (33:47):
Also use they're they're using it.
We can't be foolish enough tobelieve that the kids are not
using these tools outside ofschool.
Yes.
To your point, really stronglyfeeling is if I don't, as an
educator, set them up topractice it in a safe space,
they're going to use theirpowers for not such good things.
Yes.
And we need to be protecting ourkids.
And I don't think they're goingto go out and most of them are
(34:09):
going to directly do things theyshouldn't be doing.
I think it's going to be Ididn't even know I shouldn't
have done this.
And so I think that's wherewe're doing them a disservice by
not teaching them everythingthat needs to be taught.
SPEAKER_03 (34:20):
Or they won't have the critical thinking to like
they're just going to think it'sthe magic answer.
Whatever is fit out from myperspective.
SPEAKER_00 (34:27):
Already in a very consuming culture right now.
They just consume, consume,consume.
And I I I love this.
I want I want to education.
I'm going to be Jeff's bestfriend.
That's what I mean.
SPEAKER_03 (34:39):
I mean, again, in Pennsylvania, we're at this
phenomenal apex right now of allthese things coming together.
I was at IU28's summit about amonth ago because they are
putting in a ginormous, it'sgoing to be the largest natural
gas-powered data center in NorthAmerica.
Wow.
And it's going to sit in IU28,Homer City.
SPEAKER_04 (35:02):
Wow.
SPEAKER_03 (35:02):
And their whole call on this summit was Curiosity
through career workforcedevelopment for this new age of
data centers.
And the head workforcedevelopment person from Amazon
was there, as well as many otherbig players.
Wow.
And when questioned, the Amazonrepresentative said, you know,
(35:24):
what people were saying, what dothe students need?
He said, they need essentiallythe convergence education, those
critical thinking that, youknow, transdisciplinary, problem
solving, future work.
What they don't need is how welearned.
I love roadblock.
We don't, yeah.
So that's that's what tech issaying.
(35:46):
That's what they want.
That's where we have to go.
Again, getting kids ready fortheir future, not our past.
And I will say we're also superinfrastructure poised for this
because we've got a couple ofthings going on since the
pandemic that's really bolsteredus for this.
We currently, right now, havethe Pennsylvania statewide STEM
(36:07):
ecosystem, which is a statewideecosystem that really is the
convener of the 14 otherregional STEM ecosystems.
If you're not familiar with theSTEM ecosystem, you can Google
it.
But a STEM ecosystem iscollective impact in this whole
realm of curiosity throughcareer workforce development at
the local level, at the localcontrol level.
(36:29):
So we've got that in place.
We have, if you're unfamiliarwith it, we have the
Pennsylvania Statewide AfterSchool Youth Development
Network, SATAN.
They are involved in OST, whichis called out of school time.
That organization just theytrain STEM ambassadors every
year.
This year, we train the STEMambassador cohorts for the SEAL
standards.
So when in the informal space,think of libraries, think of
(36:52):
boys and girls clubs, they areall going to have in the eight
regions of OST aroundPennsylvania with Poseidon, they
all now have resources andtraining to supplement what's
happening in K-12 with SEALs.
We have good work going on in PACareer Ready.
We've got remake learning days.
And we have so many amazing K-12nonprofits.
(37:14):
First robotics, consortium forpublic education.
Like I can go on and on and on.
I feel very optimistic andhopeful.
We just need to make sure thatwe're all coordinated and
communicating together.
And we need to realize there arefive economic pillars that are
part of bigger pillarsnationally, geopolitically.
And we're in good shape to headthis way.
(37:36):
Sometimes we don't see thevision.
We see the trees, we don't seethe forest.
This is the forest, and the puckis heading that way in a very
fast way.
SPEAKER_02 (37:45):
I think this is what teachers need to hear too,
because we get so siloed withour subject.
We have to teach the contentbecause we have to do well in
the PSSA.
Yes.
It's not, it's going to be thenewspaper and payments are going
to be upset.
So the fact that we have thisbig picture now that you just
laid out very well, really well.
I think that's gives us acompletely different thing.
SPEAKER_00 (38:00):
I think our next our next focus needs to be, and I
don't know how we, I'm sure youprobably already have ideas,
Jeff, but how do we even get thefive pillars out?
No one's talking about them atthe levels that we're at.
And we're at like a relativelyhigh-ish level in terms of
disseminating information.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (38:18):
Right.
Right.
Well, see, I always think forthe most part, there's
disconnects between business andindustry.
SPEAKER_00 (38:24):
Yeah.
And without a doubt, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (38:27):
Always.
And that's part of it.
So let's let's start with thepillars.
Let's start right here.
Today, let's start trading now.
And start breaking down this.
And again, you look at the steelstandards.
The steel standards can be ablank canvas that why not, since
they say local context, why notthink about phenomena of like it
(38:48):
aligns perfectly?
Like an AI data center.
Yep.
That could be your phenomena.
Yeah.
Holy cow.
There's so many elements youcould go run with with an AI
data data center.
SPEAKER_00 (38:58):
And then talking about jobs that they've never,
like it's just such a perfectparallel.
It meshes so so well.
SPEAKER_01 (39:04):
When you were talking about those five
economic pillars, the one thingthat I felt was tremendous
Pennsylvanian pride.
Yes.
It also made me think that onepiece that it's to me seems like
we miss in Pennsylvania iscommunicating collectively, like
getting on the same page andworking together.
Going off of the thought processwe've been using that we've been
(39:25):
going more or less fine-load,like, well, this region does
this, or this region does this.
Well, you're taking this moreglobal approach and look at it
and say, like, there's thispowerful things that we do.
Yeah, we don't all do it acrossthe state, but all these amazing
things are happening.
When you were talking about theenergy production, yes, you know
how we how we use it.
I was like, Well, that's that'samazing.
So we fascinate.
SPEAKER_03 (39:46):
I know that.
I want to throw one more thingin there while I'm thinking of
it.
So there's a new phenomenonright now called small modular
reactors.
SPEAKER_04 (39:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (39:53):
Okay.
And a small modular reactor arepretty much cooled by molten
sodium, and they can produce 300megawatts of energy, which you
have one or two of those, youcould have a data center.
And the cool thing about that isWestinghouse in Pittsburgh, both
in Aetna and in Cranberry, ifyou're familiar with those parts
(40:13):
of Western PA, they are buildingthese small modular reactors,
UV-inchies.
So the concept could be theycould put a data center in rural
depressed areas where they needemployment because it doesn't
need the requirements of aregular nuclear reactor.
It is incredibly safe because ituses this molten sodium.
(40:34):
It cannot melt down like youknow, people had feared with
other ones.
What we missed from the ThreeMile Island incident, that was
30 years ago, 40 years ago.
It's in the teens.
In the TS in the 1990s.
Yes, in the teens.
The technology has improveddramatically.
We see it right here at PennState with our Brizell reactor.
(40:56):
Like it is really evolved.
This is the second coming ofwhat I would think is clean
energy, you know, carbon-freeenergy.
And again, Pennsylvania'sleading in this.
SPEAKER_00 (41:07):
Yeah.
That's crazy.
We could talk about that forhours.
SPEAKER_01 (41:10):
Yeah, right.
We could have multiple, multiplepodcasts.
Jeff, here's here's here's whatI'm hearing.
I'm gonna try and do this not atall possible job of summarizing
all these things that are right.
Yeah, first, I heard Jeff saythat he found a way to stop
setting himself on fire byinviting AI into the classroom.
SPEAKER_00 (41:30):
I feel like yes, definitely.
I see how you got there.
SPEAKER_01 (41:34):
Yeah, I guess, yeah.
Yeah, okay.
This is good for us that our NewJersey and West Virginia
listeners are gonna at leastquadruple because now we're now
we'll have four people.
Yeah.
So that's improvement for us.
We'll have four.
Yeah.
One would be great from eitherone of those things.
But more seriously, I think youreally summarized it so well
(41:57):
with the quote by JeffRomington, which was getting our
kids ready for their future, notour past.
SPEAKER_04 (42:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (42:02):
I feel like that is definitely all that's the title.
Because that meetings so hard.
Yeah.
And I know it's something thatwe're all actually working
towards, but to hear someonearticulate it is like, yes,
that's the difference.
SPEAKER_00 (42:15):
What I think you're trying to say is he's definitely
got a finger on the pulse ofwhat's happening and what's
coming.
And it's interesting, you'rekind of living in like a utopia
right now because you've got allof these worlds converging, and
you're able to be in a placewhere you can take that and
translate it so that teacherscan understand it.
And we as educators don't havethe time to do all of this
translating and figuring outwho's here and who's there and
(42:37):
how to make all theseconnections.
And so you're kind of in thisamazing situation where you're
able to take what's happeningand translate it in a way that
allows educators to implement ittomorrow.
Small things like just talkingto the kids about those pillars.
Yeah.
Small things like we're justgonna do one little project and
we're gonna try this one.
Yeah.
And it's it and that's reallyall it takes to become a
(42:57):
snowball.
And I think what we're trying tosay is that you're in living the
dream and are creating all theseopportunities for teachers
through CSATs to be a part ofthat dream.
SPEAKER_03 (43:08):
Yeah, I think that sums it up very well.
SPEAKER_00 (43:10):
Thank you.
I should be the host.
SPEAKER_01 (43:12):
Yeah.
Um I'll keep the argument in.
I mean, I think that you'readvocating.
Oh, there's more.
SPEAKER_00 (43:19):
We just said it.
Thumbs it up.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (43:22):
Absolutely.
But then Jeff will look at melike, please fix it.
SPEAKER_03 (43:25):
I don't think so.
And and I think it's not justeducating the kids, it's
educating the parents.
Yeah.
Because a lot of the parentscould have the thought that,
well, if the education I did wasgood enough for me, it's good
enough for my kids.
I've heard that so many times.
I've heard that over and overand over again.
Rinse and repeat.
Yeah.
It is the world has changed.
And I think everyone realizesthat.
(43:46):
The world is changing rapidly.
Yeah.
And old thinking is not going tocut it in this rapidly changing.
SPEAKER_02 (43:52):
I wish we could stop giving A, B,'s and C's for math
and then give grades on criticalthinking.
Yes.
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (43:59):
A, B, and C are not going to cut it in the new
world.
That's not really where thoseanswers remain.
SPEAKER_00 (44:04):
But you can earn a C and still be one of the best
critical thinkers on Facebook.
So you still get to like that'sthe thing.
Like, you could get it an F.
I don't care.
You're a really great criticalthinker.
Maybe you're just nottranslating it right there into
that current content.
SPEAKER_01 (44:15):
Honestly, usually we have one big idea that we're
sharing in a podcast.
And I mean 95.
And all the new terms, like thetransdisciplinary, learning.
SPEAKER_00 (44:24):
That's not new.
Def and I have been talkingabout that for that.
SPEAKER_01 (44:27):
Your brain grew back.
SPEAKER_00 (44:28):
No, I'm just kidding, because I did that
Steph Ambassadors thing, andJeff was there, and that's where
I learned about it.
SPEAKER_01 (44:33):
I like the convergence idea.
Convergent research, industrialconvergence, right?
Like all these things and eventhe five pillars.
There's so much here.
And to your point, we need to beambassadors and sharing this out
and hoping others fill it.
We don't know what we don'tknow.
Yeah.
Or we do know what we know.
So that's what kind of whatwe're saying.
We get stuck in that spot.
SPEAKER_03 (44:52):
And I feel like we also have to say, business and
industry, get us at the table.
We are ready to help, but we'vegot to be part of the
conversation.
SPEAKER_00 (44:59):
And what I'm finding too with business and industry,
especially through theecosystem, is they're super
eager to come in and have theseconversations because they want
our kids to come out ready towork.
SPEAKER_03 (45:10):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (45:11):
And stay in Pennsylvania.
So making those connections andlove and policymakers want that.
SPEAKER_03 (45:16):
It's gonna bolster the tech space.
SPEAKER_00 (45:18):
And it's a win-win for everybody.
SPEAKER_01 (45:21):
Just gotta talk to people.
Be sure to like and subscribeand for more Jeff Remington.
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