June 2, 2025 • 26 mins
What did you think of the episode? Send us a text!
Ever wondered how to make curriculum integration feel natural instead of forced? Meet Scott Oste and Katie Trach from Northampton Area School District, who have mastered what they playfully call "ropifying" - the art of weaving subjects together into a cohesive educational experience.
Their journey began in 2015, well before Pennsylvania adopted the STEELS standards. Rather than waiting for state mandates, they proactively built integration into their district's DNA through gradual, intentional changes. What makes their approach unique is how they've capitalized on connections that already existed but weren't being fully leveraged.
Katie brilliantly articulates why integration works so well in elementary settings: "Elementary teachers are phenomenal at ropifying. We verbified roping it. Is it speaking and listening? Is it reading? Is it writing? Is it science? It doesn't matter." The key is becoming more intentional about these natural connections.
One of their most powerful insights concerns the relationship between science and literacy. Rather than competing for instructional time, STEELS enhances literacy instruction by providing authentic contexts for reading, writing, and discussion. As Katie explains, "You can't write more until you can talk more," highlighting how scientific discussions build the foundation for stronger written expression.
The podcast reveals that scientific modeling provides an accessible entry point for teachers new to STEELS. By encouraging students to draw their ideas and engage in collaborative discussions, teachers naturally address multiple standards across disciplines while building student confidence.
What's most encouraging about Scott and Katie's message is that curriculum integration is accessible to everyone. Whether you're just beginning or well into your journey, small intentional changes can transform how students experience learning. Starting with scientific modeling and emphasizing student discussion creates a foundation upon which deeper integration can be built.
Ready to "ropify" your curriculum? Listen now to discover how these curriculum specialists are breaking down subject barriers to create more authentic, efficient learning experiences for students at all levels.
Want to learn more about ChangED? Check out our website at: learn.mciu.org/changed
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It'll be good, it'll be great.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
No, I'm going to fix it.
Sorry, scott, it's okay.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
This is authentic podcasting it really is.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
You should hear the stuff we actually edit out.
This is tame Right, Tony?
This is great.
Wait, are we redoing this?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Really Great, me too.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
He's so mad.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome back to Change.
Ed Ch changed.
Yes, all right, we are here andwe are at the nsta conference
in philadelphia yeah thank you,nsta, for providing us with a
room so that we could actuallypodcast With a window, with a
window.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
And kind of like spotlights.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, no extra charge .
Speaker 1 (00:48):
It's a little weird.
Well, we had to work for it.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
I had to work for it, Okay we'll cut that out I do
have to say I appreciate the icecream cups that you're using to
put Okay, so thank you forcalling it out.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I said to him yesterday or the day before I
was like can we get you like alittle riser, Because this looks
really unprofessional.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
But I've had them for a long time.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
That's engineering design at its finest.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Thank you, it was my STEM design challenge.
It's been a solid year of thosecups.
I don't know how they work.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
And we've talked about them on the show, right,
haven't we?
Haven't we talked about them?
Because it's embarrassing, butyes, so thank you everyone for
your support.
I am your host, andrew coon,education consultant from
montgomery county intermediateunit.
Here with me is the best,richard simotech.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Also the montgomery county intermediate unit.
Are we in education oreducational today?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
depends on how you're feeling.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Oh, I mean, tony changes his title all the time,
doesn't matter okay, so I'm aneducation consultant because
that's what you told me I am Wow.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
All right, and also here with us is Tony with a new
title.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Tony Marabito.
Thanks to Scott, I am now STEMintegration specialist.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yes, all right, change your email.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Love it yes.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Wow, between recordings Change his episode.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Don't tell his boss.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
So we have not one, but two guests here with us
today and a return guest.
One of them is a return guest.
He's never heard the show, buthe's here with us.
Scott O's like toast correct.
Welcome, scott, thank you.
Thank you for coming back, it'sgreat to be on the show again
and if we would just remind ouraudience it's been so long since
I've seen you.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Like 10 years.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, and if you go in dog years it's a long time
you have an age of day.
I feel like I have.
Your podcast stresses me out.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Not just to you, Scott.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
We're piping it all right into your ears.
It's like, yeah, it's tough.
So, Scott, can you just remindour Change it audience who you
are and where you're from?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Sure, my name is Scott Ost.
I am a curriculum supervisor atNorthampton Area School
District.
Great Thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And with us we have the one and only Katie Trock.
Katie, welcome to the show.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Katie, if you don't mind introducing yourself to the
ChangeEd Nation please.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
I am Katie Trock.
I am the younger version ofScott.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yes, get it, girl, because he's aged.
From the show you wait till theend.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
Yes, very much so I am also a curriculum specialist
at Northampton Area SchoolDistrict.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Where is Northampton Area School District?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Great question.
It's north of the HamptonSchool District.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Thank you, andrew.
I was asking the people thatactually were located there.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Oh sorry sorry Please , Andrew.
I was asking the people thatactually were located there.
Oh, sorry, sorry Please.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
This is your show Excuse me it's just north of
Allentown, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Oh, okay, you couldn't have said Hampton, come
on, you couldn't support me onthat one.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
No, he needs to be factual and accurate.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
There might not be a Hampton in Pennsylvania.
Is it North Hampton County?
No?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah so wait, are they your people?
Yeah, no, they're next door.
They're my people.
That that's where I grew up.
Oh no, did you cross?
Speaker 4 (03:49):
wait I thought you grew up in bath, which is in
northampton area school districthe crossed over.
So have you been to his?
Speaker 1 (03:55):
mom's pizza shop you know the pizza shop what pizza
shop my place?
Speaker 4 (03:59):
yeah, that's my parents, that's yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
No way.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
They own a trash company.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
You might have no we don't.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
No, we don't IRS, we do not.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
It's off the books and off the podcast.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
They threatened to put Andrew in with the fishes.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
But George Wolfe was my favorite park growing up.
They had the perfect woodenwhole thing going on with the.
Yeah, it was amazing.
What like a castle park?
Yes, stop.
Yes, the ones that are oninstagram that are now like
dissolved because of probablyasbestos or whatever else, but
it was amazing did it have oneof those rickety bridges?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
yes oh man yeah I will.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
You could launch kids off of it.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah, that was great she didn't say that as an
education we're taking a fieldtrip to a park today just cut
that out, we're looking atinertia stem design.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Who wants to be an astronaut?
Stand here, I'll jump how comeall the teachers are
volunteering to jump anyway.
Our podcast last year with withtony's mom was our most
listened to maybe ever, becauseif you went into her store it
(05:09):
was mandatory that youdownloaded it immediately, right
?
Speaker 4 (05:12):
if you were a presence in beth, yeah, all 1
000 people that live therelisten to it.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah, yeah, wow, it was mandated I was, like my mom
matters too, like she wasmayoral decree anyway, this is
not why you came on.
I know, uh, we want you tothink that we are professional.
I was like my mom matters tooMayoral decree.
Anyway, this is not why youcame on.
I know, we want you to thinkthat we are professionals.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
It all makes sense now and is connected.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Thank you, that's all I needed was a little something
that didn't involve you.
I feel off.
You brought it there.
What did you tell me that wewanted to talk about for this
episode?
Speaker 4 (05:43):
Their curriculum and maybe incorporating steals and
maybe some challenges.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
All right, I didn't write it down, so uh, we would
love to hear from you in northhampton, which is above hampton,
as everyone knows yes, moreabout the work you've been doing
in your curriculum, becausetransitioning to steals, ngss as
we're here at nsta mentioningthat as well, is a big
undertaking.
So what does does that processlook like for the both of you
and kind of your arenas?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Sure.
So I have to give credit to myboss, Dr Michelle Schoenberger,
and our superintendent, MrJoseph Kowalczyk, supporting us
in making these shifts.
Well before the steel standardscame out, I came into the
district in 2015.
Out I came into the district in2015.
My supervisor, who was DrSchoenberger at the time, said
Pennsylvania probably will comeout with their own version at
some point.
(06:28):
You know, 15, 20 years down theroad.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
So let's just make that change Like five words
changed yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
And so we made a conscious effort to make changes
instructionally back then andwe dabbled in spots here and
there.
We didn't really get into toomuch.
We redesigned some units.
But her idea was that if wejust expose ourselves a little
bit at a time, that eventually,with enough practice, we get
where we need to get to.
And so we started that work wayway back in 2015, 2016.
(06:54):
Somehow I was convinced to jumpto leadership and an
administrative role in the heartof COVID.
That was a smart decision andwe really just carried the same
mindset, the same mentalitythrough, and since then, since
PA has adopted those standards,I've really just taken my
experience and then flipped it,obviously as more of an
administrative coaching role,taught teachers how to do it.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Wow, I was going to say that's awesome that you're
getting back into the classroomwith your teachers again.
I learned I was doingco-teaching last week and, like
you were saying in our previousepisodes so long ago, so long
ago that when you're so farremoved, you don't know what
that feels like.
We can talk about theory, wecan talk about strategies, we
can talk about notice and wonderand driving question boards,
but until you're doing that with25 six-year-olds, you don't
really know how it's going towork out.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
And then Katie give us your perspective, and at
Northampton only four years ago.
So I kind of I'm an outsidercoming in, so I've kind of
immersed myself in watching thedistrict grow and learn.
Scott really is a driving forceand Michelle, in the science
world I kind of came to more ofan elementary background as well
as more of a language artsbackground.
So for me it's so interestingto see the huge tie-ins with
science and steals with languagearts.
You know Elementary has no timeright, not that any teacher has
(08:06):
time whatsoever, but to getlike a first grade teacher to
let go of reading or writing orscience, that's a big ask.
So kind of looking at a lot ofthese steals standards, you're
not letting go of anything.
In fact you're getting a littlebit more of ELA when it comes
to science and steals.
So it's kind of exciting.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
For everyone, especially that writing
component.
Yeah Right, like there's somuch they can do.
It's very cool Not to cut youoff, but I totally did, because
I'm a jerk.
But the interesting thing thatwe're learning is like when we
approached it as STEM, it wassimilar ideas.
We still want to incorporateall of these things and we want
to bring in the literacy.
We want to bring in the projectproblem-based learning.
(08:47):
I don't think it was as wellreceived as we had hoped.
Right, we wanted STEM to bethis like amazing thing.
It turned into tools and itturned into like gizmos and
ozobots, and not really theintention behind STEM.
What I'm learning and what I'mloving is that with STEALS, I
can and should readinformational text during my ELA
time, enhance my reading skillsduring my ELA time using
information that I can thenleverage in my science time.
(09:10):
And then I'm writing CERs orhowever we're choosing to
respond, but I'm using all ofthose interconnected things.
So it's like we're finallygetting to what we wanted STEM
to kind of be in the elementaryworld, which is then going to
propel our middle school andhigh school kids further.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Yeah, and I would say Katie has been instrumental too
at the elementary level.
I mean, she speaks the language.
I just take the language andthen interpret it in my own
science way.
She's educated us all on someof the similar ELA tie-ins that
we can make.
You know, say, mean matter wassomething that I did not know of
until the other day, and weessentially came to the
conclusion that scientists dothe same thing, just in a very
scientific way.
So we're working with ourteachers in terms of how we
(09:49):
incorporate that back into theclassroom, providing them a
framework and a structure, andthe collaborative partnership
that we have with each other, Ithink, has been instrumental in
that work.
So we're just finding ways tointegrate literacy whenever we
can.
It's been a big help.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Okay, so Scott said same mean matter.
What did he say?
Speaker 5 (10:05):
And what does that mean to you and why does that
matter?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Oh, look what you did .
I was like wait a minute, whyare you asking me questions?
I'm asking you questions.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
Got it.
So that came from SAS.
When it comes to the TDA, thetext-dependent analysis so our
ELA teachers are loving thatreal quick catchphrase.
So if you start something inkindergarten and the teachers
are all using that same language, it's so easy for kids to
follow along.
So when it comes to sciencefifth grade especially starting
to panic for that writingcomponent of the dreaded PSSAs
(10:37):
However, the science essays arelooking very, very similar to a
TDA and so, whatever we say,whether it's science-based or
language arts-based, and whatdoes it mean to us and why does
it matter?
We've had our science teacherscome in and they kind of like,
looked at us quickly and saidcould you have the language arts
teachers talk about this inSeptember so that we can use it
for the rest of the year?
So real quick things like that.
(10:58):
Everybody's kind of talking thesame thing, and speaking of,
talking.
A huge thing is speaking andlistening standards.
It's that like silent ELAstrand that we all obviously use
all the time, but we've startedto really bring that back out,
kind of dust it off, remindeverybody what it is.
So now even our scienceteachers are asking if they
could take the speaking andlistening rubrics over to their
(11:20):
classroom.
That's awesome, as they'reinteracting with the kids and
listening to the science talksand all kinds of what do I call
them Conundrum circles,conundrum circles, yes, science
circles.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Science circles.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
But we're using our speaking and listening rubrics
all over the place becauseelementary kids love to talk.
Yeah, it gives them a lot ofgreat ideas and details and then
, you know, that kind of tampersoff a little bit as they get
older.
So we're trying to use that asan instrumental piece for
instruction for teachers,administrators and students.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
One of the things that you just pointed out so
well is that there are so manycrossover points.
Science calls it one thing, elacalls it something different,
same thing with math and socialstudies, but that the connection
is there and it's very strong.
And another thing I'll say isthat we've had a lot of
conversations with leadersoutside of the science world who
say the NGSS are really wellwritten, they are very strong,
(12:15):
some of the best of thestandards that are out there.
They're so thought out and theintegration like how they're
integrated, the integrativepiece.
So I'm curious on your end.
It sounds like from the journeyof what you shared, scott, that
integration has been a mindsetfor a while and you're not just
shifting to that spot.
So hopefully you've had I'msure you have experiences with
(12:35):
other schools or districts orconversations, and how is your
story different from theirs?
What are you seeing?
Is the difference?
Because I would imagine if youstarted 10 years ago, the shift
to Steeles looks very differentin your district than it would
for the majority of Pennsylvania.
That's like this steals mindsetis brand new and we need to get
this done in three years.
What does that look like?
(12:56):
Would you talk to that fromyour experience?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Sure.
So it's always been a mindsetof mine personally, and I think
that that came from thedifferent experiences that I had
in the business world and injust regular ed.
As a teacher, you know that youhave to think that way, but I
think as I've gone through thesesteel shifts, I've really
thought out the connectivepieces between all the content
areas and how I can best supportteachers through those changes.
(13:18):
We've actually got a group ofteachers in our district who
take graduate courses through auniversity that we partner with.
They take STEM graduate coursesand they get their STEM
endorsement.
What that has done it's helpedbuild capacity around the
integrative pieces that areneeded.
So, for example, last night wehave this district-wide event
and that district-wide event iscalled Soups and Scoops.
(13:40):
It's an event where we raisefunds and money for local food
pantries and there's a lot thatgoes into that event.
It's a very steamy STEMI event.
Right, it's hosted by the artdepartment, but Katie and I have
graduate students, our teachers, and we said to them last night
you know, just pay attention tothe behind the scenes work that
goes into this.
You got your social studiesteachers building placemats for
(14:01):
their, for the soup bowls thatthat's the people eat from.
You've got the math departmentthat are designing the
centerpiece flowers that go intothe center of the table and
doing all the measurements thatgo behind that.
You've got the art departmentobviously making the bowls for
the soup.
You've got business partnerscoming in and contributing
raffle baskets.
When you take a step back andyou look at all the integrated
pieces that are going into onesingle event, it's a much easier
(14:24):
way to approach it.
So, going back to your originalquestion, as districts talk to
us, I encourage them to helptheir teachers understand those
integrated pieces by taking thatstep back and using community
events that they already have inplace right that they already
do and just pausing andreflecting for a moment about
all the integrated pieces thatare going on amongst different
(14:45):
departments.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
That is an incredible perspective, and I'm not just
saying it because you're here inthis space in front of me Truly
mean that because we liveintegrated lives as human beings
.
So if we step back, as you'resaying, I love that perspective.
We step back from what can be avery blurry space, but we
(15:09):
experience integrated lives somuch and so providing we talked
about this on our last episode10 years ago that the
perspective piece is soimportant.
So where are we experiencingintegration and what can that
look like here, versus kind ofseparating it out, and I imagine
I'm generalizing here, but thatour elementary teachers are
actually probably some of thebest at integrating, because
(15:30):
they're like I don't have anymore time, I've got to figure
out how to math and science atthe same time or how to bring
things together.
And so, Katie, my question foryou is are you seeing that for
steals you started to talk abouta little bit, but I want to
lean a little more into itbecause I think for our
elementary listeners, like thestruggle is so real and this
idea of like wait, are youasking me to shift my mindset or
(15:52):
to shift my practice, or both?
And if both is at the same time, do.
I do one and the other, sothere's a lot of there's like
nine questions in there.
If you could answer them inorder, that'd be great.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
Without using your hands first so first of all, if
you get the visual of afriendship bracelet, honestly
Scott and I have done a lot ofprofessional development with
our staff of making like Iliterally bought the what is an
embroidery thread and we've madefriendship bracelets just
showing how instruction can beroped.
So that's when you were puttingyour hands together.
That's what we do all the time.
(16:24):
So elementary teachers arephenomenal at roping it.
We verbified roping it right.
So is it speaking and listening?
Is it reading?
Is it writing?
Is it science?
It doesn't matter.
And the more you kind ofelementary teachers do it all
the time Like you have a readaloud, you know something comes
up in a read aloud, you have thewhole class's attention.
You end up talking about math,science, social studies right
(16:46):
there.
If you ask the teacher whatthey did, they'll say I did read
aloud for 10 minutes.
Really there's all kinds ofsubjects and things in there.
A big shift is being intentionalahead of time about what you're
about to rope.
So as you look at the newstandards, you can kind of see
the behavioral component, youcan see the structures.
So elementary teachers theymight be afraid at first.
(17:07):
What do you mean?
Science standards?
I still don't know all the oldscience standards?
What about the new sciencestandards?
Really, though, they'rebehavioral experts of roping it,
understanding what's going on.
We're talking, we're listening,we're reading, we're writing.
You know, kindergartners areprobably the best students
you've got for asking questionsand inquiry based Capitalize on
that.
What are we doing?
Are we in?
(17:27):
Are we in science class?
Are we drawing a diagram?
Because that's the only way wecan write.
You know they will draw, theywill hypothesize, they'll do all
the things.
They don't really understandwhat they're doing at the time,
and the teacher is just gettinganything and everything from
them.
So it's truly ropified thecontent and what we're doing and
how we do it.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I love that Ropify, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
You heard it here first.
We might have to put that inthe title.
That might have to be in it.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Ropeify your life.
It's already actually beenropeified.
Yes, for us as adults,everything is ropeified.
I just want to see how manytimes I can say ropeify.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
I think we're on four .
Yeah, tony, were you going tosay something?
Speaker 4 (18:05):
I was going to ask a question, but I wanted him to
say Ropeify, yeah, one more timeMore.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, I get an, even five Ropeify.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
So with your two different roles, so professional
.
In elementary and thensecondary.
Yeah, and Steeles integration.
Just in general, what are someof the bigger challenges that
you've seen or that arerecurring themes in maybe some
of your meetings or your sitdowns with your teachers, and
how have you started to try toplan and overcome?
I've had the pleasure ofworking with your teachers and
they are amazing.
They are willing to learn, sothat's not an issue that I don't
(18:33):
think you have Well.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
I think the elephant in the room is time.
Right Time is.
It's a big task and that's beena big challenge.
And it's a big challenge forany district, not just a North
Hampton thing.
You know, we We've had to makesome schedule changes in
elementary world to prioritizescience and obviously be
intentional about how we usethat time together but also
provide the flexibility forteachers to make instructional
(18:55):
decisions around that time.
Katie and I think instructionaldecision making is like on the
daily for Katie and I.
How do you become betterinstructional decision makers in
the moment and how do you gainthe confidence to do that?
And you know elementary has tobe masters of everything because
they have to teach everything.
So our roles have been how do Ibest support, coach and then
find those integrated pieces inelementary world to save time?
(19:18):
Nobody has time there and sohow can I show you the connected
pieces so that we're not doingone more thing?
We're actually just we'rechecking a lot of boxes along
the way and being veryintentional.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
I would like to say, scott, that you clearly missed
your moment, because if you'resaying you're trying to be
better in the moment, that'swhen you say, and that's why we
listened to Shane.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Jett.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
That was the moment flew by.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Ask the question again.
I'll answer differently.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Sorry, that assessment has passed.
So, from your perspective again, each of you, you, what's the
thing you would say that hasreally made the difference for
our listeners who are listeningto this, saying where do I start
?
How do I know what I don't know?
There's so much out there tonot know what is some either
words of encouragement or thisis we're going to pretend like
(20:02):
this is the second and third,last to final thought that you
could provide to educators so wewere were very intentional in
elementary world around startingscientific modeling.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
So scientific modeling is a great entry point,
in my opinion, to getelementary teachers to do this
work.
Anybody can draw a picture.
It does not have to be a VanGogh, right, you can just get
your ideas from your brain onpaper or verbalize it, whatever
you know a student is able to do.
But scientific modeling hasbeen kind of a K to 12.
I don't want to call it aninitiative.
(20:33):
It's been an undertone for ayear or two now and I just said
to our elementary teachers ifyou can just get kids to model
out ideas and then maybe explainto you and verbalize to you
what that model looks like orwhat it means around maybe a
central phenomena, that's a huge, huge first step.
If they can get to other kidsand revise their thinking based
(20:53):
on the collaborative discussionsthey have with other kids and
even groups of kids back totheir model, there's again more
collaborative conversations theyhave and that one single thing
that you're doing in theclassroom has opened up lots of
doors for kids, and so I alwaysgive that piece of advice to
school districts Start withscientific modeling.
It's a great.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Katie, can you fix what he said and make it sound
better?
Speaker 5 (21:16):
Wow, I mean I'll try, that was pretty good.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
It was very good, Scott.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
I would say the only other thing you could add to the
modeling is the talking aboutthe modeling.
That's such a huge piece.
So we work together all thetime.
He has that secondary lens thatcontent heavy elementary.
We co-plan a lot of things.
We don't really know what ourofficial job title is anymore
because we change them all thetime.
So a lot of times, like Itranslate elementary for him, he
translates secondary for me.
(21:42):
But what you hear fromsecondary a lot is how do we get
these kids to talk more?
Or how do you, how do you getthem to write more?
Well, you can't write moreuntil you can talk more.
So getting comfortable withmodeling and getting comfortable
with talking and it's an easyeducator move, it's an easy
student move Builds confidenceall around.
But a huge one, yeah, it's ahuge one, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
We've been so fortunate to be part of so many
great conversations, and one ofthose really great conversations
that we've had recently wassomeone who even helped work on
the NGSS.
They were saying that inelementary that connection where
, as students are learning words, you might actually be
verbalizing it to make it visualfor them so they can understand
it, and he was making theconnection of like and we're
doing that in so many waysthrough our steel sanders.
(22:27):
We're trying to help themvisualize what this might be, or
visualize a process, versustelling them or having them
experience.
It is telling them, we'rehaving them experience it, and
you can very much see thatcoming alive in the work that
both of you are doing and howyou are modeling that and how
you are trying to lead forward.
And I think for our listenerswho are like, well, we're not in
Northampton, we weren't 10years ahead, we're just getting
(22:48):
on board now, I think the keytakeaway is that it doesn't
require you to have been 10years ahead.
Maybe the conversation startedbecause of the change in
standards.
Whatever the emphasis is forthe change, you have the power
to choose the direction thatyou're going to go, where you
end up.
So it starts now for someone in10 years it could look very
different based off of the smallchanges that we make and the
(23:10):
small decisions that we make.
And I think one of the mostimportant things for me through
this podcast is that to becomebetter in the moment, whatever
that moment might be, you needto listen to the change that
podcast.
Oh, we nailed it I.
We come right back to it.
You crushed it, good job.
Be sure to like and follow yourfavorite and subscribe that one
(23:33):
to your favorite number onepodcast and propify your
favorite podcast into your phoneI did just rate your podcast
the other day.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
You have three ratings.
I gave it a five, though thankyou.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Oh, thank you, we loved it off the air.
I'd love to talk to the othertwo I told my mom not to read us
.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
I'm checking this off my bucket list.
I'm not lying.
Thank you, it's been an awesomeexperience.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, I appreciate you guys doing this.
Anytime you want to come on,because it's nice to have people
who mess with him.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, it really feels good.
My soul has been filled today.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
My bucket has been filled, he doesn't have to be
here.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I don't need to be rope-fied in this experience.
There's a club if you guys needtherapy after this session.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
I think we're starting a mastermind around
support groups for.
Andrew, there's quite a few ofus.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
He's a monster.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
Fan mail.
I enjoyed everyone except forAndrew.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Is it really in there ?
No, I wrote that.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
You looked at me and were like, can you believe?
They wrote that.
I'm like, yes, I can All good.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
It's fan mail on Spotify.
Contact us right through theapp.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Make sure to like, follow and subscribe and heart,
you know, stars whatever youneed to do Give it a rating, as
long as you give it a five.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Say nice things about your favorite host.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
And text us on Spotify.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Because you'll be rope-ifying us into your life
Even in those hard moments whenyou're cleaning the garbage
disposal.
Change Ed.
Is there Scott?
Speaker 3 (25:08):
That's all I do.
All I do is listen to theChange Ed podcast and then I
just put everything you tell mein action.
That's really what my job is.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
We're done here.
Shut that down.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
No, I am so happy right now.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I don't even want this anymore.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
You can take all your swag and go away from me.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
It's actually us, we do that.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Oh, you guys do the same thing, so you're doing the
hand motion.
Speaker 5 (25:37):
We call it.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Oh, we thought you were making fun of him, because
this is how he talks as well aswe make this is a yes and moment
.
I love it.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yeah, I'm sorry, I misinterpreted your niceness um
thank you or you're welcome yousay both yeah, thank you, and
you're welcome yeah you'rewelcome.
You're going to walk by her andbe like man, that guy.
We were really harassed on thatshow.
Good thing they edited all thatout.
Yeah, the bow tie really threwme off.
(26:09):
That is going to be nice.
It'll be good, it'll be great.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
No, I'm going to fix it.
Sorry, scott, it's okay.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
This is authentic podcasting it really is.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
You should hear the stuff we actually edit out.
This is tame Right, Tony?
This is great.
Wait, are we redoing this?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Really Great, me too.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
He's so mad.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome back to Change.
Ed Ch changed.
Yes, all right, we are here andwe are at the nsta conference
in philadelphia yeah thank you,nsta, for providing us with a
room so that we could actuallypodcast With a window, with a
window.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
And kind of like spotlights.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, no extra charge .
Speaker 1 (00:48):
It's a little weird.
Well, we had to work for it.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
I had to work for it, Okay we'll cut that out I do
have to say I appreciate the icecream cups that you're using to
put Okay, so thank you forcalling it out.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I said to him yesterday or the day before I
was like can we get you like alittle riser, Because this looks
really unprofessional.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
But I've had them for a long time.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
That's engineering design at its finest.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Thank you, it was my STEM design challenge.
It's been a solid year of thosecups.
I don't know how they work.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
And we've talked about them on the show, right,
haven't we?
Haven't we talked about them?
Because it's embarrassing, butyes, so thank you everyone for
your support.
I am your host, andrew coon,education consultant from
montgomery county intermediateunit.
Here with me is the best,richard simotech.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Also the montgomery county intermediate unit.
Are we in education oreducational today?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
depends on how you're feeling.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Oh, I mean, tony changes his title all the time,
doesn't matter okay, so I'm aneducation consultant because
that's what you told me I am Wow.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
All right, and also here with us is Tony with a new
title.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Tony Marabito.
Thanks to Scott, I am now STEMintegration specialist.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yes, all right, change your email.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Love it yes.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Wow, between recordings Change his episode.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Don't tell his boss.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
So we have not one, but two guests here with us
today and a return guest.
One of them is a return guest.
He's never heard the show, buthe's here with us.
Scott O's like toast correct.
Welcome, scott, thank you.
Thank you for coming back, it'sgreat to be on the show again
and if we would just remind ouraudience it's been so long since
I've seen you.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Like 10 years.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, and if you go in dog years it's a long time
you have an age of day.
I feel like I have.
Your podcast stresses me out.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Not just to you, Scott.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
We're piping it all right into your ears.
It's like, yeah, it's tough.
So, Scott, can you just remindour Change it audience who you
are and where you're from?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Sure, my name is Scott Ost.
I am a curriculum supervisor atNorthampton Area School
District.
Great Thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And with us we have the one and only Katie Trock.
Katie, welcome to the show.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Katie, if you don't mind introducing yourself to the
ChangeEd Nation please.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
I am Katie Trock.
I am the younger version ofScott.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yes, get it, girl, because he's aged.
From the show you wait till theend.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
Yes, very much so I am also a curriculum specialist
at Northampton Area SchoolDistrict.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Where is Northampton Area School District?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Great question.
It's north of the HamptonSchool District.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Thank you, andrew.
I was asking the people thatactually were located there.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Oh sorry sorry Please , Andrew.
I was asking the people thatactually were located there.
Oh, sorry, sorry Please.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
This is your show Excuse me it's just north of
Allentown, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Oh, okay, you couldn't have said Hampton, come
on, you couldn't support me onthat one.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
No, he needs to be factual and accurate.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
There might not be a Hampton in Pennsylvania.
Is it North Hampton County?
No?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah so wait, are they your people?
Yeah, no, they're next door.
They're my people.
That that's where I grew up.
Oh no, did you cross?
Speaker 4 (03:49):
wait I thought you grew up in bath, which is in
northampton area school districthe crossed over.
So have you been to his?
Speaker 1 (03:55):
mom's pizza shop you know the pizza shop what pizza
shop my place?
Speaker 4 (03:59):
yeah, that's my parents, that's yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
No way.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
They own a trash company.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
You might have no we don't.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
No, we don't IRS, we do not.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
It's off the books and off the podcast.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
They threatened to put Andrew in with the fishes.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
But George Wolfe was my favorite park growing up.
They had the perfect woodenwhole thing going on with the.
Yeah, it was amazing.
What like a castle park?
Yes, stop.
Yes, the ones that are oninstagram that are now like
dissolved because of probablyasbestos or whatever else, but
it was amazing did it have oneof those rickety bridges?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
yes oh man yeah I will.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
You could launch kids off of it.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah, that was great she didn't say that as an
education we're taking a fieldtrip to a park today just cut
that out, we're looking atinertia stem design.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Who wants to be an astronaut?
Stand here, I'll jump how comeall the teachers are
volunteering to jump anyway.
Our podcast last year with withtony's mom was our most
listened to maybe ever, becauseif you went into her store it
(05:09):
was mandatory that youdownloaded it immediately, right
?
Speaker 4 (05:12):
if you were a presence in beth, yeah, all 1
000 people that live therelisten to it.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah, yeah, wow, it was mandated I was, like my mom
matters too, like she wasmayoral decree anyway, this is
not why you came on.
I know, uh, we want you tothink that we are professional.
I was like my mom matters tooMayoral decree.
Anyway, this is not why youcame on.
I know, we want you to thinkthat we are professionals.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
It all makes sense now and is connected.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Thank you, that's all I needed was a little something
that didn't involve you.
I feel off.
You brought it there.
What did you tell me that wewanted to talk about for this
episode?
Speaker 4 (05:43):
Their curriculum and maybe incorporating steals and
maybe some challenges.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
All right, I didn't write it down, so uh, we would
love to hear from you in northhampton, which is above hampton,
as everyone knows yes, moreabout the work you've been doing
in your curriculum, becausetransitioning to steals, ngss as
we're here at nsta mentioningthat as well, is a big
undertaking.
So what does does that processlook like for the both of you
and kind of your arenas?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Sure.
So I have to give credit to myboss, Dr Michelle Schoenberger,
and our superintendent, MrJoseph Kowalczyk, supporting us
in making these shifts.
Well before the steel standardscame out, I came into the
district in 2015.
Out I came into the district in2015.
My supervisor, who was DrSchoenberger at the time, said
Pennsylvania probably will comeout with their own version at
some point.
(06:28):
You know, 15, 20 years down theroad.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
So let's just make that change Like five words
changed yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
And so we made a conscious effort to make changes
instructionally back then andwe dabbled in spots here and
there.
We didn't really get into toomuch.
We redesigned some units.
But her idea was that if wejust expose ourselves a little
bit at a time, that eventually,with enough practice, we get
where we need to get to.
And so we started that work wayway back in 2015, 2016.
(06:54):
Somehow I was convinced to jumpto leadership and an
administrative role in the heartof COVID.
That was a smart decision andwe really just carried the same
mindset, the same mentalitythrough, and since then, since
PA has adopted those standards,I've really just taken my
experience and then flipped it,obviously as more of an
administrative coaching role,taught teachers how to do it.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Wow, I was going to say that's awesome that you're
getting back into the classroomwith your teachers again.
I learned I was doingco-teaching last week and, like
you were saying in our previousepisodes so long ago, so long
ago that when you're so farremoved, you don't know what
that feels like.
We can talk about theory, wecan talk about strategies, we
can talk about notice and wonderand driving question boards,
but until you're doing that with25 six-year-olds, you don't
really know how it's going towork out.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
And then Katie give us your perspective, and at
Northampton only four years ago.
So I kind of I'm an outsidercoming in, so I've kind of
immersed myself in watching thedistrict grow and learn.
Scott really is a driving forceand Michelle, in the science
world I kind of came to more ofan elementary background as well
as more of a language artsbackground.
So for me it's so interestingto see the huge tie-ins with
science and steals with languagearts.
You know Elementary has no timeright, not that any teacher has
(08:06):
time whatsoever, but to getlike a first grade teacher to
let go of reading or writing orscience, that's a big ask.
So kind of looking at a lot ofthese steals standards, you're
not letting go of anything.
In fact you're getting a littlebit more of ELA when it comes
to science and steals.
So it's kind of exciting.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
For everyone, especially that writing
component.
Yeah Right, like there's somuch they can do.
It's very cool Not to cut youoff, but I totally did, because
I'm a jerk.
But the interesting thing thatwe're learning is like when we
approached it as STEM, it wassimilar ideas.
We still want to incorporateall of these things and we want
to bring in the literacy.
We want to bring in the projectproblem-based learning.
(08:47):
I don't think it was as wellreceived as we had hoped.
Right, we wanted STEM to bethis like amazing thing.
It turned into tools and itturned into like gizmos and
ozobots, and not really theintention behind STEM.
What I'm learning and what I'mloving is that with STEALS, I
can and should readinformational text during my ELA
time, enhance my reading skillsduring my ELA time using
information that I can thenleverage in my science time.
(09:10):
And then I'm writing CERs orhowever we're choosing to
respond, but I'm using all ofthose interconnected things.
So it's like we're finallygetting to what we wanted STEM
to kind of be in the elementaryworld, which is then going to
propel our middle school andhigh school kids further.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Yeah, and I would say Katie has been instrumental too
at the elementary level.
I mean, she speaks the language.
I just take the language andthen interpret it in my own
science way.
She's educated us all on someof the similar ELA tie-ins that
we can make.
You know, say, mean matter wassomething that I did not know of
until the other day, and weessentially came to the
conclusion that scientists dothe same thing, just in a very
scientific way.
So we're working with ourteachers in terms of how we
(09:49):
incorporate that back into theclassroom, providing them a
framework and a structure, andthe collaborative partnership
that we have with each other, Ithink, has been instrumental in
that work.
So we're just finding ways tointegrate literacy whenever we
can.
It's been a big help.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Okay, so Scott said same mean matter.
What did he say?
Speaker 5 (10:05):
And what does that mean to you and why does that
matter?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Oh, look what you did .
I was like wait a minute, whyare you asking me questions?
I'm asking you questions.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
Got it.
So that came from SAS.
When it comes to the TDA, thetext-dependent analysis so our
ELA teachers are loving thatreal quick catchphrase.
So if you start something inkindergarten and the teachers
are all using that same language, it's so easy for kids to
follow along.
So when it comes to sciencefifth grade especially starting
to panic for that writingcomponent of the dreaded PSSAs
(10:37):
However, the science essays arelooking very, very similar to a
TDA and so, whatever we say,whether it's science-based or
language arts-based, and whatdoes it mean to us and why does
it matter?
We've had our science teacherscome in and they kind of like,
looked at us quickly and saidcould you have the language arts
teachers talk about this inSeptember so that we can use it
for the rest of the year?
So real quick things like that.
(10:58):
Everybody's kind of talking thesame thing, and speaking of,
talking.
A huge thing is speaking andlistening standards.
It's that like silent ELAstrand that we all obviously use
all the time, but we've startedto really bring that back out,
kind of dust it off, remindeverybody what it is.
So now even our scienceteachers are asking if they
could take the speaking andlistening rubrics over to their
(11:20):
classroom.
That's awesome, as they'reinteracting with the kids and
listening to the science talksand all kinds of what do I call
them Conundrum circles,conundrum circles, yes, science
circles.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Science circles.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
But we're using our speaking and listening rubrics
all over the place becauseelementary kids love to talk.
Yeah, it gives them a lot ofgreat ideas and details and then
, you know, that kind of tampersoff a little bit as they get
older.
So we're trying to use that asan instrumental piece for
instruction for teachers,administrators and students.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
One of the things that you just pointed out so
well is that there are so manycrossover points.
Science calls it one thing, elacalls it something different,
same thing with math and socialstudies, but that the connection
is there and it's very strong.
And another thing I'll say isthat we've had a lot of
conversations with leadersoutside of the science world who
say the NGSS are really wellwritten, they are very strong,
(12:15):
some of the best of thestandards that are out there.
They're so thought out and theintegration like how they're
integrated, the integrativepiece.
So I'm curious on your end.
It sounds like from the journeyof what you shared, scott, that
integration has been a mindsetfor a while and you're not just
shifting to that spot.
So hopefully you've had I'msure you have experiences with
(12:35):
other schools or districts orconversations, and how is your
story different from theirs?
What are you seeing?
Is the difference?
Because I would imagine if youstarted 10 years ago, the shift
to Steeles looks very differentin your district than it would
for the majority of Pennsylvania.
That's like this steals mindsetis brand new and we need to get
this done in three years.
What does that look like?
(12:56):
Would you talk to that fromyour experience?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Sure.
So it's always been a mindsetof mine personally, and I think
that that came from thedifferent experiences that I had
in the business world and injust regular ed.
As a teacher, you know that youhave to think that way, but I
think as I've gone through thesesteel shifts, I've really
thought out the connectivepieces between all the content
areas and how I can best supportteachers through those changes.
(13:18):
We've actually got a group ofteachers in our district who
take graduate courses through auniversity that we partner with.
They take STEM graduate coursesand they get their STEM
endorsement.
What that has done it's helpedbuild capacity around the
integrative pieces that areneeded.
So, for example, last night wehave this district-wide event
and that district-wide event iscalled Soups and Scoops.
(13:40):
It's an event where we raisefunds and money for local food
pantries and there's a lot thatgoes into that event.
It's a very steamy STEMI event.
Right, it's hosted by the artdepartment, but Katie and I have
graduate students, our teachers, and we said to them last night
you know, just pay attention tothe behind the scenes work that
goes into this.
You got your social studiesteachers building placemats for
(14:01):
their, for the soup bowls thatthat's the people eat from.
You've got the math departmentthat are designing the
centerpiece flowers that go intothe center of the table and
doing all the measurements thatgo behind that.
You've got the art departmentobviously making the bowls for
the soup.
You've got business partnerscoming in and contributing
raffle baskets.
When you take a step back andyou look at all the integrated
pieces that are going into onesingle event, it's a much easier
(14:24):
way to approach it.
So, going back to your originalquestion, as districts talk to
us, I encourage them to helptheir teachers understand those
integrated pieces by taking thatstep back and using community
events that they already have inplace right that they already
do and just pausing andreflecting for a moment about
all the integrated pieces thatare going on amongst different
(14:45):
departments.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
That is an incredible perspective, and I'm not just
saying it because you're here inthis space in front of me Truly
mean that because we liveintegrated lives as human beings
.
So if we step back, as you'resaying, I love that perspective.
We step back from what can be avery blurry space, but we
(15:09):
experience integrated lives somuch and so providing we talked
about this on our last episode10 years ago that the
perspective piece is soimportant.
So where are we experiencingintegration and what can that
look like here, versus kind ofseparating it out, and I imagine
I'm generalizing here, but thatour elementary teachers are
actually probably some of thebest at integrating, because
(15:30):
they're like I don't have anymore time, I've got to figure
out how to math and science atthe same time or how to bring
things together.
And so, Katie, my question foryou is are you seeing that for
steals you started to talk abouta little bit, but I want to
lean a little more into itbecause I think for our
elementary listeners, like thestruggle is so real and this
idea of like wait, are youasking me to shift my mindset or
(15:52):
to shift my practice, or both?
And if both is at the same time, do.
I do one and the other, sothere's a lot of there's like
nine questions in there.
If you could answer them inorder, that'd be great.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
Without using your hands first so first of all, if
you get the visual of afriendship bracelet, honestly
Scott and I have done a lot ofprofessional development with
our staff of making like Iliterally bought the what is an
embroidery thread and we've madefriendship bracelets just
showing how instruction can beroped.
So that's when you were puttingyour hands together.
That's what we do all the time.
(16:24):
So elementary teachers arephenomenal at roping it.
We verbified roping it right.
So is it speaking and listening?
Is it reading?
Is it writing?
Is it science?
It doesn't matter.
And the more you kind ofelementary teachers do it all
the time Like you have a readaloud, you know something comes
up in a read aloud, you have thewhole class's attention.
You end up talking about math,science, social studies right
(16:46):
there.
If you ask the teacher whatthey did, they'll say I did read
aloud for 10 minutes.
Really there's all kinds ofsubjects and things in there.
A big shift is being intentionalahead of time about what you're
about to rope.
So as you look at the newstandards, you can kind of see
the behavioral component, youcan see the structures.
So elementary teachers theymight be afraid at first.
(17:07):
What do you mean?
Science standards?
I still don't know all the oldscience standards?
What about the new sciencestandards?
Really, though, they'rebehavioral experts of roping it,
understanding what's going on.
We're talking, we're listening,we're reading, we're writing.
You know, kindergartners areprobably the best students
you've got for asking questionsand inquiry based Capitalize on
that.
What are we doing?
Are we in?
(17:27):
Are we in science class?
Are we drawing a diagram?
Because that's the only way wecan write.
You know they will draw, theywill hypothesize, they'll do all
the things.
They don't really understandwhat they're doing at the time,
and the teacher is just gettinganything and everything from
them.
So it's truly ropified thecontent and what we're doing and
how we do it.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I love that Ropify, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
You heard it here first.
We might have to put that inthe title.
That might have to be in it.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Ropeify your life.
It's already actually beenropeified.
Yes, for us as adults,everything is ropeified.
I just want to see how manytimes I can say ropeify.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
I think we're on four .
Yeah, tony, were you going tosay something?
Speaker 4 (18:05):
I was going to ask a question, but I wanted him to
say Ropeify, yeah, one more timeMore.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, I get an, even five Ropeify.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
So with your two different roles, so professional
.
In elementary and thensecondary.
Yeah, and Steeles integration.
Just in general, what are someof the bigger challenges that
you've seen or that arerecurring themes in maybe some
of your meetings or your sitdowns with your teachers, and
how have you started to try toplan and overcome?
I've had the pleasure ofworking with your teachers and
they are amazing.
They are willing to learn, sothat's not an issue that I don't
(18:33):
think you have Well.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
I think the elephant in the room is time.
Right Time is.
It's a big task and that's beena big challenge.
And it's a big challenge forany district, not just a North
Hampton thing.
You know, we We've had to makesome schedule changes in
elementary world to prioritizescience and obviously be
intentional about how we usethat time together but also
provide the flexibility forteachers to make instructional
(18:55):
decisions around that time.
Katie and I think instructionaldecision making is like on the
daily for Katie and I.
How do you become betterinstructional decision makers in
the moment and how do you gainthe confidence to do that?
And you know elementary has tobe masters of everything because
they have to teach everything.
So our roles have been how do Ibest support, coach and then
find those integrated pieces inelementary world to save time?
(19:18):
Nobody has time there and sohow can I show you the connected
pieces so that we're not doingone more thing?
We're actually just we'rechecking a lot of boxes along
the way and being veryintentional.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
I would like to say, scott, that you clearly missed
your moment, because if you'resaying you're trying to be
better in the moment, that'swhen you say, and that's why we
listened to Shane.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Jett.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
That was the moment flew by.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Ask the question again.
I'll answer differently.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Sorry, that assessment has passed.
So, from your perspective again, each of you, you, what's the
thing you would say that hasreally made the difference for
our listeners who are listeningto this, saying where do I start
?
How do I know what I don't know?
There's so much out there tonot know what is some either
words of encouragement or thisis we're going to pretend like
(20:02):
this is the second and third,last to final thought that you
could provide to educators so wewere were very intentional in
elementary world around startingscientific modeling.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
So scientific modeling is a great entry point,
in my opinion, to getelementary teachers to do this
work.
Anybody can draw a picture.
It does not have to be a VanGogh, right, you can just get
your ideas from your brain onpaper or verbalize it, whatever
you know a student is able to do.
But scientific modeling hasbeen kind of a K to 12.
I don't want to call it aninitiative.
(20:33):
It's been an undertone for ayear or two now and I just said
to our elementary teachers ifyou can just get kids to model
out ideas and then maybe explainto you and verbalize to you
what that model looks like orwhat it means around maybe a
central phenomena, that's a huge, huge first step.
If they can get to other kidsand revise their thinking based
(20:53):
on the collaborative discussionsthey have with other kids and
even groups of kids back totheir model, there's again more
collaborative conversations theyhave and that one single thing
that you're doing in theclassroom has opened up lots of
doors for kids, and so I alwaysgive that piece of advice to
school districts Start withscientific modeling.
It's a great.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Katie, can you fix what he said and make it sound
better?
Speaker 5 (21:16):
Wow, I mean I'll try, that was pretty good.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
It was very good, Scott.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
I would say the only other thing you could add to the
modeling is the talking aboutthe modeling.
That's such a huge piece.
So we work together all thetime.
He has that secondary lens thatcontent heavy elementary.
We co-plan a lot of things.
We don't really know what ourofficial job title is anymore
because we change them all thetime.
So a lot of times, like Itranslate elementary for him, he
translates secondary for me.
(21:42):
But what you hear fromsecondary a lot is how do we get
these kids to talk more?
Or how do you, how do you getthem to write more?
Well, you can't write moreuntil you can talk more.
So getting comfortable withmodeling and getting comfortable
with talking and it's an easyeducator move, it's an easy
student move Builds confidenceall around.
But a huge one, yeah, it's ahuge one, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
We've been so fortunate to be part of so many
great conversations, and one ofthose really great conversations
that we've had recently wassomeone who even helped work on
the NGSS.
They were saying that inelementary that connection where
, as students are learning words, you might actually be
verbalizing it to make it visualfor them so they can understand
it, and he was making theconnection of like and we're
doing that in so many waysthrough our steel sanders.
(22:27):
We're trying to help themvisualize what this might be, or
visualize a process, versustelling them or having them
experience.
It is telling them, we'rehaving them experience it, and
you can very much see thatcoming alive in the work that
both of you are doing and howyou are modeling that and how
you are trying to lead forward.
And I think for our listenerswho are like, well, we're not in
Northampton, we weren't 10years ahead, we're just getting
(22:48):
on board now, I think the keytakeaway is that it doesn't
require you to have been 10years ahead.
Maybe the conversation startedbecause of the change in
standards.
Whatever the emphasis is forthe change, you have the power
to choose the direction thatyou're going to go, where you
end up.
So it starts now for someone in10 years it could look very
different based off of the smallchanges that we make and the
(23:10):
small decisions that we make.
And I think one of the mostimportant things for me through
this podcast is that to becomebetter in the moment, whatever
that moment might be, you needto listen to the change that
podcast.
Oh, we nailed it I.
We come right back to it.
You crushed it, good job.
Be sure to like and follow yourfavorite and subscribe that one
(23:33):
to your favorite number onepodcast and propify your
favorite podcast into your phoneI did just rate your podcast
the other day.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
You have three ratings.
I gave it a five, though thankyou.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Oh, thank you, we loved it off the air.
I'd love to talk to the othertwo I told my mom not to read us
.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
I'm checking this off my bucket list.
I'm not lying.
Thank you, it's been an awesomeexperience.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, I appreciate you guys doing this.
Anytime you want to come on,because it's nice to have people
who mess with him.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, it really feels good.
My soul has been filled today.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
My bucket has been filled, he doesn't have to be
here.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I don't need to be rope-fied in this experience.
There's a club if you guys needtherapy after this session.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
I think we're starting a mastermind around
support groups for.
Andrew, there's quite a few ofus.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
He's a monster.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
Fan mail.
I enjoyed everyone except forAndrew.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Is it really in there ?
No, I wrote that.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
You looked at me and were like, can you believe?
They wrote that.
I'm like, yes, I can All good.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
It's fan mail on Spotify.
Contact us right through theapp.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Make sure to like, follow and subscribe and heart,
you know, stars whatever youneed to do Give it a rating, as
long as you give it a five.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Say nice things about your favorite host.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
And text us on Spotify.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Because you'll be rope-ifying us into your life
Even in those hard moments whenyou're cleaning the garbage
disposal.
Change Ed.
Is there Scott?
Speaker 3 (25:08):
That's all I do.
All I do is listen to theChange Ed podcast and then I
just put everything you tell mein action.
That's really what my job is.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
We're done here.
Shut that down.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
No, I am so happy right now.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I don't even want this anymore.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
You can take all your swag and go away from me.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
It's actually us, we do that.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Oh, you guys do the same thing, so you're doing the
hand motion.
Speaker 5 (25:37):
We call it.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Oh, we thought you were making fun of him, because
this is how he talks as well aswe make this is a yes and moment
.
I love it.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yeah, I'm sorry, I misinterpreted your niceness um
thank you or you're welcome yousay both yeah, thank you, and
you're welcome yeah you'rewelcome.
You're going to walk by her andbe like man, that guy.
We were really harassed on thatshow.
Good thing they edited all thatout.
Yeah, the bow tie really threwme off.
(26:09):
That is going to be nice.
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