October 7, 2025 • 33 mins
What if the key to selling cybersecurity wasn’t just about technology, but about uncovering the sales strategies that truly build trust and drive growth? In this special bonus episode of Channel Security Secrets, Lou Rabon and Karen Sung go live on International Podcast Day to celebrate podcasting, reflect on lessons learned, and share behind-the-scenes stories from building the show.
Channel Security Secrets is a one-of-a-kind security podcast focused on exposing the untold, critical insights from trusted advisors. Lou and Karen are the dynamic minds behind this podcast, Lou as host and Karen as the marketing strategist behind it all. We’re gonna be diving into their podcasting secrets and find out how Channel Security Secrets has worked for their company, Cyber Defense Group.
They share candid insights on:
- How the podcast was launched and shaped
- The lessons learned from trusted advisors in the channel
- Why trust, resilience, and curiosity come up again and again in sales conversations
- The behind-the-scenes challenges of making a podcast happen
- Advice for other leaders thinking about starting their own show
Quote of the Show
- “One of the recurring themes that I've heard is knowing when to say, I don't know, and then being someone that they can go to and to get the real answer, not the thing that's gonna make the salesperson the most money.” - Lou Rabon
Find all episodes, show notes, and resources at: https://www.cdg.io/podcast/
Partner with us: https://www.cdg.io/partner-with-cyber-defense-group/
Links
- Lou’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lourabon/
- Karen’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karen-sung/
- Website: https://www.cdg.io/
Ways to Tune In
- Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1gIKsOyorKMzQA7wxck4dH?si=ff617df387aa401c
- Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/channel-security-secrets/id1826825461
- Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/8703d3a3-4128-4691-8862-cb847f53f776/channel-security-secrets
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ChannelSecuritySecrets
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lou Rabon (00:01):
Welcome to Channel Security Secrets. I'm Lou Raban.
On this show, we expose theuntold secrets and critical
insights from the people shapingthe future of cybersecurity
sales in the trusted adviserchannel. If you're looking to up
your game around sellingsecurity, stick around. Channel
Security Secrets is brought toyou by Cyber Defense Group on a
mission to shift cybersecurityfrom reactive to resilient.
Casey Cheshire (00:38):
And we're live, but, like, actually live live.
And I just gotta say,International Podcasting Day to
all of you out there, whetheryou're podcasters or podcast
listeners. Congratulations. Thisday is all about us. It's all
about making great content andhaving amazing conversations.
(00:58):
And I'm joined today by two veryspecial guests. I have Lou
Rabban, the star of the podcast,the channel security secrets
podcast, which we will talk moreabout today. He's also the
founder of the Cyber DefenseGroup. Also, Karen Sung, head of
marketing from the Cyber DefenseGroup. And we're gonna be
chatting, podcasting, talkingabout CDG, talking about
(01:21):
security, and diving into it.
So welcome both of you.
Lou Rabon (01:26):
Thanks, Casey. Great to be here.
Karen Sung (01:28):
Thanks for
Casey Cheshire (01:28):
having us. Gonna roll up these sleeves. Lou,
first one's coming at you. Youhave this amazing podcast, hours
worth of conversation at thispoint. Many, many episodes under
your belt.
Tell me, how do you describethis show that you have in just
three words?
Lou Rabon (01:45):
I think cybersecurity sales insights is the best way
to put it. Three words. AndYeah. I I don't know since I
only have three words. I thinkI'm about 12 now or something,
so I don't know if you want meto go into more detail.
Casey Cheshire (02:00):
No. That's great. I I mean, like, insights
on the sales side. Tell me aboutthe ecosystem, Karen, that that
the CDG finds itself in and andwhere this podcast fits into it.
Karen Sung (02:13):
Yeah. So we designed this podcast to be in a very
specific ecosystem, and thatecosystem is is a channel called
Avant and among that, amongothers. But this channel was
essentially born intelecommunications, and we're
bringing cybersecurity into thatchannel. So it is it is a really
(02:38):
amazing vehicle for us to beable to share more with this
community and share thatcybersecurity is not, scary. It
doesn't have to be a scaryconversation.
Casey Cheshire (02:51):
Lou, what was it like going from founder of a
company to now podcast host andand having all these
conversations.
Lou Rabon (03:00):
Yeah. I'm not gonna lie. I was skeptical in the
beginning. I if it were mypodcast and I said, I I wanna
speak about security, and itwould just be a, like, a
security geek podcast that maybe10 people would probably care
about or listen to. And, youknow, under your tutelage and
guidance and the teams and andKaren's, you know, strong push,
(03:20):
you know, we we said, let's talkabout security in the channel.
And, surprisingly, it's beenit's been awesome because we've,
there's conversations that,yeah, I normally wouldn't have.
And and the most shocking thingfor me is people are actually
listening to it. So I'm, like,actually surprised that anyone,
you know, wants to hear what wehave to say, but I I think it's
(03:42):
a testament to, you know, whowe're having on the
conversations we're having andstuff like that. So it was it
it's been, you know, it was apush. It's the first time I'm
doing a podcast, but it'sdefinitely been a great
experience.
Casey Cheshire (03:55):
It's always a surprise, right, when people
other than our moms and ourspouses and friends and family
listen to a pod, but it it tellsyou you're feeling a need in the
community and that people arehungry for this kind of
information. It is this just nottalked about? I mean, channel
security, it's it's not new, butwhat what's not being discussed
(04:16):
out there?
Lou Rabon (04:18):
I for for me, from my perspective, I think it's that
we we are new to, the thechannel that we're working
within. It's not and withoutgoing too deeply into it, in
technology, there's been achannel of like distributors
that sell software and hardware,etcetera. This is a services
distribution channel and theyused to sell bandwidth and data
(04:40):
center. They still do,especially with AI now. You
know, we got to sprinkle AI intothis, right?
So, right. Yeah. But this isreal, you know, the data centers
are being consumed by AI rightnow. So these these, you know,
agents are going out there andthey've sold them traditionally,
but they haven't sold securityyet. As you know, I mean, most
(05:02):
people are not comfortable justoff the cuff speaking about
security, as especiallycybersecurity, digital
protection, data protection.
So I that's why this hasn'thappened before. I I think
because there's not been there'sbeen a couple podcasts, but I
think that we're the first onesdoing specifically how to sell
cybersecurity in the channel.And I know Karen has some great
(05:24):
perspectives because she's thethe the person that that helped
us launch this internally atleast.
Casey Cheshire (05:30):
Yeah. Karen, tell us about that that process.
And and I know I mean, yourstrong leadership said like,
hey. Let's let's go in thisdirection. Let's target, you
know, this as our idealcustomer, our ideal audience,
guest, all of that.
What was going on?
Karen Sung (05:44):
Yeah. I mean, that's definitely a a big component to
this. Right? Like, deciding whatdirection we wanted to take when
we started this podcast. Youknow, there was a lot of
different directions.
Like, Lou really wanted to talkabout cybersecurity, and and
then we realized that there's agap and there's a need within
(06:04):
the channel that we are workingwith. So that's why we decided
on that. But, you know,designing this show, it was
about the trusted adviser andwhat is the value that we could
bring to them. And I think thatstarts with the first opening
question that we ask everyone.You know, what's your secret to
your success in this channel oror something similar to that?
(06:26):
But designing that firstquestion and making sure that we
are are filling a need and andhaving, a really meaningful
conversation. Like, this thispodcast has really evolved into
something more than I think bothLou and I thought that it would
be. Right? So it's been reallyexciting along the way. And I've
(06:46):
definitely listened to all thepodcast episodes.
So
Casey Cheshire (06:51):
Well, and that brings up a great question.
Like, when you when you have allthese great individuals on pods
and you get a chance to learnfrom them, I'm curious from both
of you. What kind of lessons areyou learning? What kind of
insights are you getting? And Iknow you're sharing sales
insights with the audience, butwhat kind of insights are you
learning back?
Lou Rabon (07:10):
For me, I think it's learning how the mechanics
behind how sales works. I mean,just having, you know, being the
founder and stuff, as youmentioned earlier, Casey, it's
only been the last probablythree, four years. Not even that
I've started to understand whatgoes behind sales. It's if
there's a kind of a practitionersalesperson divide because
(07:33):
normally I would be someone in acompany that the salespeople
would be trying to have aconversation with. And, you
know, you take a one dimensionalview like, okay.
Salespeople, they just want mytime, blah blah blah. Sell me
something. There's so much morebehind it, and I think the
biggest insights that I'mgetting from the podcast are
what, you know, is important topeople as they're they're going
(07:56):
through this. And and some ofthe recurring themes are trust.
They're called trusted advisers,but not being transactional,
really understanding how to, youknow, do a sale where you're
you're not even necessarilyselling.
You're just interested insolving pain for your customers.
And, you know, being there forthem, not just when it's renewal
(08:17):
time and stuff like that. Andanother thing is, you know,
about having integrity. I thinkone of the recurring themes that
I've heard knowing when to say Idon't know and then being, you
know, someone that theyunderstand will they can come to
and and they're going to get thethe real answer. They're not
just gonna get the thing that'sgonna make the salesperson the
(08:38):
the most money.
So it's really kind of helphelping me, excuse me,
understand how salespeople, thegood ones operate.
Casey Cheshire (08:49):
Yeah. And it's interesting. It's those it's
those soft skills. It's thoseinterpersonal connection traits
like trust, and and and thoseare not things you can just, you
know, click to acquire. Youknow?
You have to build that overtime. Karen, how about how about
yourself? What kind of insightsare you picking up?
Karen Sung (09:08):
Yeah. I mean, I would I would echo exactly what
Lou has said as well. You know?Trust but I would also add in
resiliency. You know, thesethese guys are really looking,
for ways to be resilient within,this this community.
This has really been, like, a agold mine of of information
(09:29):
actually for for for me as amarketer. Good. I'm looking at
it from a perspective of I'mlearning so much more about so
many different trusted adviserswithin this community. I mean,
I've actually put all thetranscripts, and I continue for
all the transcripts into chatGBT, and I have it in a, project
folder. And I can, go to thatand ask it, you know, certain
(09:53):
questions, which, in turn enableus to have better conversations
with, our trusted advisers,allow us to have better content
for our trusted advisers.
You know, we're going intomeetings and enablement
meetings, and, you know, I cango into that repository and
find, you know, ways thatthey're thinking and their and
(10:13):
the way that they're talkingabout security and bring that
into conversations that we havecurrently today to make it
better.
Casey Cheshire (10:22):
Wow. It what's really cool, it's like this meta
loop of not only are you helpingthose listening better
understand these things, butyou're also taking full
advantage of learning from yourown customers and own potential
prospects to create good contentand to lose points, sell without
selling. Just just solve painand then see what happens from
(10:44):
there. So it it's great thatit's not just like that surface
level, oh, let's just do this,but we're gonna trick you, and
we're all gonna do itdifferently. But no.
We're what we're presenting isexactly how we are too.
Karen Sung (10:55):
But Yeah. And it's something for me too. It's not
just a vendor conversation. It'snot just about products and
services. Right?
Like, it's about practicalsolutions on on selling and how
to do that.
Casey Cheshire (11:07):
I mean, if this doesn't make you wanna listen to
a podcast, I don't know whatdoes. Funnelize with also
hearing behind the scenes of,yeah, this is we are we are
listening to our own pod. We aredoing what we're saying we're
doing. Lou, that seemed toreally resonate with you.
Lou Rabon (11:22):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, I I was I'm not gonna
lie. I was a bit not skepticalbecause there you know, I I'm
full disclosure, maybe this isnot the right statement to make
on National Podcast Day. Yeah.
Live, but I don't often listento podcasts. I do once in a
while, but it's not like my goto. Yeah. And I know, there are
(11:42):
people that that's all they do,especially if they have a long
commute and things like that.And it's a great way to get
through it, and I I have startedto do that more now that I am a
podcaster, to to get tips andget better at it.
So, yeah, it resonates with mebecause I'm I'm experiencing it
firsthand where I'm like, wow,there's there's real value.
That's when we started this,that was the thing. We we didn't
(12:03):
want to just make this anexercise and this is good for
marketing. We wanted people tobe able to extract some value
from it. So, I mean, that's mygoal.
Every time that I'm having theseconversations, we have a, you
know, a very light script. It'smostly conversational as you
know, but I really want to getdeeper than just the the surface
level. I want to get into somemore things that, you know, when
(12:27):
people listen, I want them to toI want it to be compelling for
them. So that's why I think it'sresonating that this is a great
forum where you wouldn'tnormally you know, in your
normal day, if you pick up thephone and just have a
conversation with someone, itmight just be like, okay,
meeting. Let's go next.
But when you're on a podcastwith the camera rolling and the
mic on, it it creates adifferent environment that can,
(12:49):
you know, pull out some maybedifferent insights.
Casey Cheshire (12:52):
Yeah. How do you how do you get that level below
that deeper conversation?
Lou Rabon (12:58):
Don't, you know, take the first answer as the, you
know, that that's the thing.It's really easy to like, okay,
Nicks. Let me just follow myscript, and and I'm not gonna
lie. You know, sometimes I'veI've done that. You're you know,
someone on your team, if I cancall her out, is is that
acceptable?
Avery, she's awesome. I feel,like, for her, you know, having
to listen to me all the time.Edit edit my mistakes out, but
(13:22):
she's given me some really greatfeedback as to how to, you know,
be be more compelling to listento and stuff like that. And
sometimes she's she's I told herdon't pull any punches, and she
hasn't. She's like, you know,this one, you could have done
this, this, this.
Maybe in the next when you dothat. And, that's helping me
because I'm like, wow. I didn'tgo deep enough there. I wasn't
(13:43):
totally listening. Like, youhave to listen too.
It's not just like, let me justget on with it. You wanna hear
what they're saying and thenreally think about it if you can
in the moment and then say, waita second. What what do you mean
by that? Let's go deeper there.
Casey Cheshire (13:56):
Yeah. Great answer. Next question. Right?
It's that Exactly.
Tell me more, like, what exactlyis underneath there, but that
has to keep you in. Like, youhave to be interested in it too.
Otherwise, then you're just sortof a talking figurehead. Yeah.
Lou Rabon (14:14):
No one's going to listen to that.
Casey Cheshire (14:15):
Right. Right. No. But it's it's always fun to
you know, whenever you go thesecond or third level, it almost
feels like that's really wherethe treasure is. And it it's
almost like you had to do thework to just get rid of that
first surface level.
Yeah. Okay. Cool. But then tellme let's go dig below that to
find what's really below. Butbut you know what?
You you've you've you've put inso much you know, you've gotten
(14:38):
these episodes out there. You'rewell past pod fading. That is in
the distance. You're not gonna,you know, start a pod and have
it just, you know, pit her outafter three episodes. So you've
got some experience.
Looking back to when you firststarted, what would you say was,
like, one of the biggestchallenges?
Lou Rabon (14:55):
I've I think understanding how to to
structure the show, and you guysdid a great job helping with
that. But me personally, becauseI didn't have the experience I
mean, first, the intros. I'mactually honestly still not
really good at the intros. Like,I just saw your intro, and I'm
like Start a big group notes.Like, you know Oh,
Casey Cheshire (15:15):
it was crap too. Mine was totally it's different
format, but I appreciate that.
Lou Rabon (15:19):
Well, no. It was much better than mine. And, so I'm
even rerecording an intro that Irecently did.
Casey Cheshire (15:26):
Oh, yeah? For
Lou Rabon (15:26):
Newbury. Yeah. Because it just didn't hit the
mark. So intros are still aproblem for me, not even, you
know, that's an ongoing thing. II gotta get better at that
because I am reading at thatpoint.
Casey Cheshire (15:35):
Oh, And
Lou Rabon (15:37):
yeah, I guess the challenge was that it was it was
I didn't understand the formatyet because I hadn't done enough
of it. It's kind of likeanything, you know, once you
start in the beginning, you justjust a big unknown. So, I'm
getting more comfortable withthe conversational aspect. I
don't need my notes as much. Andthose so those challenges are
going away.
And now now the challenges arejust getting better at it.
Casey Cheshire (15:59):
Yeah. Right? And and what's crazy is like each
and every episode is anopportunity to do that. Mhmm.
Karen, what about you?
Any any challenges come to mind?You are just such a badass
marketer, by the way. You couldsend
Karen Sung (16:09):
We are.
Casey Cheshire (16:10):
No answer because I feel like challenges
run the opposite direction whenyou come, but I don't know
you're willing to
Karen Sung (16:16):
I wish. That would be nice. Yeah. I mean, Tiller's
point, I think, you know, he isa great conversationalist to
begin with, though he's doing areally good job, like, you know,
digging under there and actuallyhaving a conversation versus
asking those questions. But,like, challenges for me as a
marketer, I would say, you know,it comes from a totally
different angle.
(16:36):
Right? I'm not on the podcast.I'm asking the questions. So for
me, it was more of a logisticsthing. Right?
Like, how is this podcast gonnahelp us, from a marketing
perspective, like, for SEO, forbacklinks, for, you know, all of
the different things that we wewant a podcast to help us with.
Those were the things that I hadto think about when we were
(16:57):
setting up the show. And then,you know, even before that, it
would be, you know, who is ouraudience? You know, why do we
wanna speak to this audience?What is the thing that they
wanna learn?
How are we gonna provide valueto them? So I'd say those are
the two, you know, areas thatwere the most challenging. And
now, you know, it's prettysimple from, you know, a
logistics point of view for me.You know, we we are just kinda
(17:21):
like running to the podcast nowand and it's and it's going, you
know, and I can see, like, I'veset up some dashboards so I can
see the metrics of how ourpodcasts are performing. And I
can see, you know, like, whichones are performing better.
And, you know, I have given Loumy own notes as well. Like, I
think, you know, we only learnfrom the things that maybe
(17:43):
didn't go as well as we wantedthem to go. And, you know, the
fact that we're learning andevolving as we go, it's it's
really exciting to see theprogress as as we evolve and and
move on to our next podcast.
Casey Cheshire (17:57):
Yeah. No. In in in launching the podcast with
both of you, I was reallyexcited to be able to have you
both on this live to celebrateyour podcast because sometimes
we're launching a podcast and wedon't have that marketing leader
closely associated with theproject or even at the company.
And then oftentimes thoseconversations of who should we
be talking to, they can be verymisguided or not very
(18:21):
intentional. And so it was verycool working with you guys from
the beginning to be like, okay,intentionally, let's target
these people.
Let's have great conversations.We can help these people. Let's
get them on the pod. So that wasthat was always great. And it
but I gotta say, Lou, you'regetting notes from Avery and
from Karen.
Lou Rabon (18:40):
Oh, yeah.
Karen Sung (18:41):
Yeah. Let's be clear, Casey. Your team has done
an amazing job of, like, gettingus to this point. Without your
team and without that supportand without, you know, all of
your documentation and all ofyour, you know, step by step
instructions, we wouldn't behere today. So, you know, thank
you, and and kudos to everyoneon your team.
(19:02):
You you guys have builtsomething really cool.
Casey Cheshire (19:05):
I appreciate that. And I know Avery and the
rest of the team do andChristina on launch and all
that. It's been fun seeing thisthing come to life and more
bringing in the secrets. Know?Everyone wants to know the
secrets, and I know we're gonnatalk more about you know,
repurposing content is reallythe thing, and I'm I'm glad
you're obsessed with that,Karen, because we gotta figure
out how to we have this reallygood conversation.
(19:25):
Let's let's do whatever we needto do, slice and dice, get
everyone a chance to consume it.But kind of a a shift to a fun
question here. I don't know,ring review, if any behind the
scenes bloopers have occurred orany moments from, you know, off
the camera.
Lou Rabon (19:44):
Yeah. I think well, one of the things that I've got
now in my notes is do not closeyour browser tab. And then at
the end of the show, do notclose your browser tab because
what we're using, that's itrecords in the browser.
Apparently, it doesn't cache itlocally, so I've had to
rerecord. I'm actually doingthat this week.
(20:06):
One of the episodes. So we did awhole hour episode completely. I
the audio was preserved, but thevideo wasn't. And so we spoke to
the guests, and they were like,yeah, that's fine. And they're
very cool and a great person tospeak to.
So, yeah, I don't we both don'tmind redoing it, but that's
probably the I don't know howfun that is. Yeah. That's more
of a cautionary tale thananything else.
Casey Cheshire (20:30):
Totally. How about you, Karen? Anything
behind the scenes that thatstood out?
Karen Sung (20:34):
I don't have any bloopers. I think, you know, for
me, it was it it was the whole Ihad to do a Zapier connection to
to make sure that the podcastwas going on to our website. So
that was, like, a whole deal,but, you know, no bloopers
exactly.
Casey Cheshire (20:51):
That was a deal. Yeah. I remember that. That's
kudos for sorting that out.Yeah.
Not everyone is is leveraging tothat extent, so that's really,
really impressive.
Karen Sung (21:02):
Hard to be streamlined around here.
Casey Cheshire (21:04):
Yeah. Right? Well, might as well. Yeah. Well,
yeah, on that note, if if eitherof you were chatting with, you
know, another founder, marketingleader at a b to b company, and
they're either just starting outor haven't started out on a
podcast yet, any advice youwould give them?
Karen Sung (21:20):
I would say be prepared to give this full
attention and some time in thebeginning, especially. And,
like, if you don't have the timefor it, like, you you better
carve out the time for it. And,you know, this is having a
podcast like this and andfinding, a meaningful an
(21:41):
audience and a meaningfulconversation can be so helpful
to your brand and to yourproduct or service or whatever
you're doing. So I would sayjust, you know, carve out that
time and and be dedicated to it,and it will pay off because it's
a lot of time in the beginning.But, you know, as as you start
to get a cadence, it will itwill even out.
(22:03):
I don't know if I can say thesame about Lou because he's at
the one recording the podcast,you know, weeklies. Yeah.
Lou Rabon (22:11):
No. I mean, it's spot on. I it's Karen was a strong,
you know, advocate for doingthis. In the beginning, I was
not skeptical, but it's timecommitment. What I would say is
the the advice is, yeah, it'sworth it.
Definitely, you know, go for itbecause I think we're there
there's so many requisitebenefits to it such as, you you
(22:37):
know, you're getting content.Your point where you're you can
repurpose, put on the sake, putit on LinkedIn, you know, spread
it around, keep it fresh. You'reand then having, you know,
ringmaster actually produces forus makes it a lot easier. I I've
spoken to a couple guests thatalso have their own pods, and
they're doing the the editingthemselves. I'm like, I don't
(22:58):
know how you have the time onthe dairy.
You know, the fact that you'rebringing a team, you're making
it easy for us, Casey. It'sbasically show up and and all
the prep work that's done toKaren's point. You gotta do the
prep work before not just beforethe pod is launched, but also in
within it. And that's what I'velearned. Like, one of the
(23:18):
reasons I my intros tend to beflat is I my schedule's packed.
So I'm going from, like, contextswitching craze like crazy, and
then, you know, meeting meeting,and then I'm like, okay. Drop
the meeting. I'm two minuteslate for the pod, and I haven't
even looked at the guests thatI'm speaking to, you know, like
their notes. And so what I'vejust it's funny, like, literally
(23:40):
right before this or maybe evenwhile I was in the waiting for
green room here, I was, isslacking with Avery, and I said,
hey. I'm I'm gonna put a buffernow between these guests
because, and that would beadvice I would give is take the
time, not just in the prep.
They're like, well, one, do it.Everyone should definitely do a
podcast. I I think if they'vegot something to say, like, if
(24:02):
you're just gonna read from ascript or something, don't it's
not worth it. Like, reallycommit to it. And then as Karen
said, put the time in for theprep before, you know, you even
launch, but then make sure youhave a buffer.
That's one of my big learningsat before, like, fifteen minutes
before so you can kinda clearyour head, do some maybe voice
that you can hear. I didn't Icame from a meeting here. I'm
(24:23):
having voice like, So it's like
Casey Cheshire (24:26):
Get some water.
Lou Rabon (24:27):
Yeah. You know? Like, get some water. It's you know?
Exactly.
And then take the time beforeyou actually are recording to
kinda get your head straight,get get your notes about the
guest, things like that. That'sthose are the big ones. Yeah.
Wise words.
Karen Sung (24:42):
I would say one more. I think one more. Also,
when you're picking your speakerto make sure that that person is
an engaging speaker that theycan have a conversation that is
not just answering questions orasking questions. Right? Not
everybody is good at it.
You know, I'm not good at it,but making sure that you pick
(25:03):
somebody that is comfortablewith that and and being engaging
in that back and forth banter.
Casey Cheshire (25:09):
Yeah. That's a really good point. And I know
we're still trying to find areplacement for Lou, but,
Karen Sung (25:14):
you
Casey Cheshire (25:14):
know, the outpost is still out there. No.
No. Lou, you do a great job.And, again, it's it's it's
getting you know, asking thosequestions and finding out more
about them as a person, not justas, you know, that role they are
at their company.
Lou Rabon (25:29):
Yeah.
Casey Cheshire (25:30):
So CDG, Cyber Defense Group, sponsoring the
show, making the show happen.Who are you guys? What do you
do?
Lou Rabon (25:39):
Yeah. I guess I that's an appropriate place for
me to start. We do cybersecurityconsulting, strategic advisory,
really helping companies embedsecurity programs or improve
their security programs. We'reaimed at the mid market and
enterprise. We do sell throughthis trusted advisor channel,
(25:59):
although we have direct clientsas well.
And our value proposition isthat we are a fixed rate. It's
if you can find a consultantthat's fixed rate these days,
you know, over a recurringperiod, we we do these programs
over multiple years. Andtherefore, we we keep it at a
fixed cost because we have theselong term relationships. And
(26:20):
we've all done, we're allpractitioners. We've all been
cybersecurity, you know, titledin fortune 500 companies doing
this for for other, you know,bigger companies And therefore,
you know, it makes us we wewe've been there.
Been there. Done that. So thatthat's pretty much who we are.
There's a lot more behind that.But I think at a high level,
(26:42):
Karen, please, if I missed And
Karen Sung (26:43):
one thing that I didn't mention is that we based
off of outcomes that wereoutcomes based security. So
there's a lot of otherconsulting firms out there that,
you know, they they give you anhourly rate card. We based our
programs on outcomes and theoutcome that are meant for each
business. So they're customizedfor each business.
Lou Rabon (27:06):
Yeah. By the way, that's the trademark for
outcomes based security rightthere. So Wow.
Casey Cheshire (27:12):
Probably sooner. Three of you left. I know. She's
alleged.
Lou Rabon (27:16):
Yeah. So because that's yeah. When you think
about security programs, I mean,security is such a a big,
seemingly complex target, ortopic, and it's not actually
that complex, at least to us,because it really is about, you
know, repeatable processes,continuous improvement,
etcetera, and outcomes based onwhat you want to achieve. So if
(27:40):
your business is an onlinecompany and you don't want to
get, you know, something badhappening, you will embed a
security program that can catchbad things and make sure that
you can get over them when ithappens. Not if, but when.
And that's what outcomes are.Like, the outcome is the site
stays up. The you know, we we'vewe've treated our risks to an
(28:01):
appropriate point. And sothanks, Karen, for reminding me
about our trademark. But, yeah,outcome we've we we have kind of
cornered that as part of our ourservices that we're providing,
that they're all outcomes based.
Casey Cheshire (28:16):
Wow. Powerful. Yeah. I I love that both of you
have you could the passion is isvisible there. And and the idea
of the outcome, like, whodoesn't want that?
I don't just wanna pay a ratecard to have unknown outcomes.
Lou Rabon (28:31):
Exactly.
Casey Cheshire (28:33):
Sounds like a no brainer, but it has to be said.
Lou Rabon (28:35):
Yeah. That's what we're solving for because that's
been the traditional consultingmodel.
Casey Cheshire (28:40):
Yeah. Alright. Well, I would I would end with
that, but I have one morequestion to throw at both of
you. They're for hypotheticalquestion because the rumor is I
might have a time machine herein New Hampshire. So the next
time you guys come do a customerevent, Boston or whatnot, come
north a little bit, get somelobsters, some beer, use a time
machine.
(29:01):
Definitely. But particular kind.So we're gonna go in the future.
We're gonna we're gonna see yourpodcast 50 episodes from now,
like a full year from now, justcurious, what would you love to
see? What would you love tothink about it at that point?
Lou Rabon (29:19):
What I Karen, what do you think? You want me to
Karen Sung (29:22):
a big question. You know, I think I would love to
just see the continuedrelationships that we've bridged
with all of these conversations.Like, that's 50 conversations
with 50 different people. Andthen if you count the the prep
time, you know, once or twicebefore that, that's a 100
conversations. So I'd I'd loveto see, stronger relationships
(29:47):
that have been built because ofthe conversations that we're
having.
And that was, you know,generally the the main purpose
of the show, but it evolved tosomething much bigger than that.
So I I'd like to see just, youknow, better relationships with
the people that we've we'vetalked to and and see more more,
(30:07):
cadence with those people.
Lou Rabon (30:10):
Yeah. And for me, I I'd like to, look at the metrics
and determine which, episodesreally hit so we can then do the
next 50 and determine who ourguests are and the content based
on that. Do we keep it, youknow, really secrets focused or
maybe it's more maybe we go moreinto cyber. Maybe we go more
into sales. You know, whateverthe case, I think, I I would
(30:33):
like to after 50 episodes, thereshould be enough information.
Yeah. Yeah. Go to the next 15.
Casey Cheshire (30:41):
And also what you like talking about too and
and what results with you know,what the audience what they
resounds with them. Yep. Maybeit's a little bit of both. Maybe
it's all of the above with thoseYeah. Have some deep dives, have
some some some more salescorners.
Yeah. I mean,
Karen Sung (30:55):
yeah,
Casey Cheshire (30:56):
sky's the limit with that.
Lou Rabon (30:57):
That's great. I'd I'd love to get some you know, pick
some stocks too that fifty yearsin the future or fifty one year
in the future, I can once I've,you know, chosen them in your
time machine, I can invest inthem when I go back a year, and
then we'll have a greatconversation.
Casey Cheshire (31:13):
There is there is a commission on there.
There's a finder's fee on thattime on that time trial. You
know? Yeah. Well, this has beenfantastic.
Hey. Where can people go if theywanna learn more about Cyber
Defense Group? If they wanna getthe the podcast, where should
they go?
Karen Sung (31:30):
Yeah. They can go to, cdg.io. That's our website,
Cyber Defense Group. And for thechannel, podcast, it's called
channel security secret, andit's on literally anything you
can watch or listen to a podcaston YouTube, Spotify, Apple
Music, all of their above plusmore that I don't don't even
(31:52):
know, what the names of themare. So it's called channel
security secret.
Casey Cheshire (31:58):
Awesome. Yeah. And I like to subscribe on,
Spotify. It's great. Looksreally cool, really cool artwork
and everything.
Well, guys, this has beenawesome. Luke, Karen, thank you
so much for coming on here. Ifeel like this has been like a
mini masterclass in in talkingabout outcomes and the kind of
security that you guys provideand the environment you're in,
(32:19):
the industry that you're in, thefact that you've been using
podcasts to address it. This hasbeen fantastic. Thank you both
for coming on here.
Karen Sung (32:26):
Thanks, Thank you for having us.
Lou Rabon (32:28):
It was a lot of fun.
Casey Cheshire (32:30):
Absolutely. For those listening, if you learned
something, go check this thingout. With that, everyone have a
great and very happyInternational Podcast Day. We'll
see you on the next one.
Lou Rabon (32:43):
That's a wrap for this episode of Channel Security
Secrets. Thanks for tuning in.For show notes, guest info, and
more episodes, visit us atchannelsecuritysecrets.com.
Channel Security Secrets issponsored by Cyber Defense
Group. When it comes toprotecting your business, don't
settle for reactive.
Partner with experts who buildresilience from the ground up.
Welcome to Channel Security Secrets. I'm Lou Raban.
On this show, we expose theuntold secrets and critical
insights from the people shapingthe future of cybersecurity
sales in the trusted adviserchannel. If you're looking to up
your game around sellingsecurity, stick around. Channel
Security Secrets is brought toyou by Cyber Defense Group on a
mission to shift cybersecurityfrom reactive to resilient.
Casey Cheshire (00:38):
And we're live, but, like, actually live live.
And I just gotta say,International Podcasting Day to
all of you out there, whetheryou're podcasters or podcast
listeners. Congratulations. Thisday is all about us. It's all
about making great content andhaving amazing conversations.
(00:58):
And I'm joined today by two veryspecial guests. I have Lou
Rabban, the star of the podcast,the channel security secrets
podcast, which we will talk moreabout today. He's also the
founder of the Cyber DefenseGroup. Also, Karen Sung, head of
marketing from the Cyber DefenseGroup. And we're gonna be
chatting, podcasting, talkingabout CDG, talking about
(01:21):
security, and diving into it.
So welcome both of you.
Lou Rabon (01:26):
Thanks, Casey. Great to be here.
Karen Sung (01:28):
Thanks for
Casey Cheshire (01:28):
having us. Gonna roll up these sleeves. Lou,
first one's coming at you. Youhave this amazing podcast, hours
worth of conversation at thispoint. Many, many episodes under
your belt.
Tell me, how do you describethis show that you have in just
three words?
Lou Rabon (01:45):
I think cybersecurity sales insights is the best way
to put it. Three words. AndYeah. I I don't know since I
only have three words. I thinkI'm about 12 now or something,
so I don't know if you want meto go into more detail.
Casey Cheshire (02:00):
No. That's great. I I mean, like, insights
on the sales side. Tell me aboutthe ecosystem, Karen, that that
the CDG finds itself in and andwhere this podcast fits into it.
Karen Sung (02:13):
Yeah. So we designed this podcast to be in a very
specific ecosystem, and thatecosystem is is a channel called
Avant and among that, amongothers. But this channel was
essentially born intelecommunications, and we're
bringing cybersecurity into thatchannel. So it is it is a really
(02:38):
amazing vehicle for us to beable to share more with this
community and share thatcybersecurity is not, scary. It
doesn't have to be a scaryconversation.
Casey Cheshire (02:51):
Lou, what was it like going from founder of a
company to now podcast host andand having all these
conversations.
Lou Rabon (03:00):
Yeah. I'm not gonna lie. I was skeptical in the
beginning. I if it were mypodcast and I said, I I wanna
speak about security, and itwould just be a, like, a
security geek podcast that maybe10 people would probably care
about or listen to. And, youknow, under your tutelage and
guidance and the teams and andKaren's, you know, strong push,
(03:20):
you know, we we said, let's talkabout security in the channel.
And, surprisingly, it's beenit's been awesome because we've,
there's conversations that,yeah, I normally wouldn't have.
And and the most shocking thingfor me is people are actually
listening to it. So I'm, like,actually surprised that anyone,
you know, wants to hear what wehave to say, but I I think it's
(03:42):
a testament to, you know, whowe're having on the
conversations we're having andstuff like that. So it was it
it's been, you know, it was apush. It's the first time I'm
doing a podcast, but it'sdefinitely been a great
experience.
Casey Cheshire (03:55):
It's always a surprise, right, when people
other than our moms and ourspouses and friends and family
listen to a pod, but it it tellsyou you're feeling a need in the
community and that people arehungry for this kind of
information. It is this just nottalked about? I mean, channel
security, it's it's not new, butwhat what's not being discussed
(04:16):
out there?
Lou Rabon (04:18):
I for for me, from my perspective, I think it's that
we we are new to, the thechannel that we're working
within. It's not and withoutgoing too deeply into it, in
technology, there's been achannel of like distributors
that sell software and hardware,etcetera. This is a services
distribution channel and theyused to sell bandwidth and data
(04:40):
center. They still do,especially with AI now. You
know, we got to sprinkle AI intothis, right?
So, right. Yeah. But this isreal, you know, the data centers
are being consumed by AI rightnow. So these these, you know,
agents are going out there andthey've sold them traditionally,
but they haven't sold securityyet. As you know, I mean, most
(05:02):
people are not comfortable justoff the cuff speaking about
security, as especiallycybersecurity, digital
protection, data protection.
So I that's why this hasn'thappened before. I I think
because there's not been there'sbeen a couple podcasts, but I
think that we're the first onesdoing specifically how to sell
cybersecurity in the channel.And I know Karen has some great
(05:24):
perspectives because she's thethe the person that that helped
us launch this internally atleast.
Casey Cheshire (05:30):
Yeah. Karen, tell us about that that process.
And and I know I mean, yourstrong leadership said like,
hey. Let's let's go in thisdirection. Let's target, you
know, this as our idealcustomer, our ideal audience,
guest, all of that.
What was going on?
Karen Sung (05:44):
Yeah. I mean, that's definitely a a big component to
this. Right? Like, deciding whatdirection we wanted to take when
we started this podcast. Youknow, there was a lot of
different directions.
Like, Lou really wanted to talkabout cybersecurity, and and
then we realized that there's agap and there's a need within
(06:04):
the channel that we are workingwith. So that's why we decided
on that. But, you know,designing this show, it was
about the trusted adviser andwhat is the value that we could
bring to them. And I think thatstarts with the first opening
question that we ask everyone.You know, what's your secret to
your success in this channel oror something similar to that?
(06:26):
But designing that firstquestion and making sure that we
are are filling a need and andhaving, a really meaningful
conversation. Like, this thispodcast has really evolved into
something more than I think bothLou and I thought that it would
be. Right? So it's been reallyexciting along the way. And I've
(06:46):
definitely listened to all thepodcast episodes.
So
Casey Cheshire (06:51):
Well, and that brings up a great question.
Like, when you when you have allthese great individuals on pods
and you get a chance to learnfrom them, I'm curious from both
of you. What kind of lessons areyou learning? What kind of
insights are you getting? And Iknow you're sharing sales
insights with the audience, butwhat kind of insights are you
learning back?
Lou Rabon (07:10):
For me, I think it's learning how the mechanics
behind how sales works. I mean,just having, you know, being the
founder and stuff, as youmentioned earlier, Casey, it's
only been the last probablythree, four years. Not even that
I've started to understand whatgoes behind sales. It's if
there's a kind of a practitionersalesperson divide because
(07:33):
normally I would be someone in acompany that the salespeople
would be trying to have aconversation with. And, you
know, you take a one dimensionalview like, okay.
Salespeople, they just want mytime, blah blah blah. Sell me
something. There's so much morebehind it, and I think the
biggest insights that I'mgetting from the podcast are
what, you know, is important topeople as they're they're going
(07:56):
through this. And and some ofthe recurring themes are trust.
They're called trusted advisers,but not being transactional,
really understanding how to, youknow, do a sale where you're
you're not even necessarilyselling.
You're just interested insolving pain for your customers.
And, you know, being there forthem, not just when it's renewal
(08:17):
time and stuff like that. Andanother thing is, you know,
about having integrity. I thinkone of the recurring themes that
I've heard knowing when to say Idon't know and then being, you
know, someone that theyunderstand will they can come to
and and they're going to get thethe real answer. They're not
just gonna get the thing that'sgonna make the salesperson the
(08:38):
the most money.
So it's really kind of helphelping me, excuse me,
understand how salespeople, thegood ones operate.
Casey Cheshire (08:49):
Yeah. And it's interesting. It's those it's
those soft skills. It's thoseinterpersonal connection traits
like trust, and and and thoseare not things you can just, you
know, click to acquire. Youknow?
You have to build that overtime. Karen, how about how about
yourself? What kind of insightsare you picking up?
Karen Sung (09:08):
Yeah. I mean, I would I would echo exactly what
Lou has said as well. You know?Trust but I would also add in
resiliency. You know, thesethese guys are really looking,
for ways to be resilient within,this this community.
This has really been, like, a agold mine of of information
(09:29):
actually for for for me as amarketer. Good. I'm looking at
it from a perspective of I'mlearning so much more about so
many different trusted adviserswithin this community. I mean,
I've actually put all thetranscripts, and I continue for
all the transcripts into chatGBT, and I have it in a, project
folder. And I can, go to thatand ask it, you know, certain
(09:53):
questions, which, in turn enableus to have better conversations
with, our trusted advisers,allow us to have better content
for our trusted advisers.
You know, we're going intomeetings and enablement
meetings, and, you know, I cango into that repository and
find, you know, ways thatthey're thinking and their and
(10:13):
the way that they're talkingabout security and bring that
into conversations that we havecurrently today to make it
better.
Casey Cheshire (10:22):
Wow. It what's really cool, it's like this meta
loop of not only are you helpingthose listening better
understand these things, butyou're also taking full
advantage of learning from yourown customers and own potential
prospects to create good contentand to lose points, sell without
selling. Just just solve painand then see what happens from
(10:44):
there. So it it's great thatit's not just like that surface
level, oh, let's just do this,but we're gonna trick you, and
we're all gonna do itdifferently. But no.
We're what we're presenting isexactly how we are too.
Karen Sung (10:55):
But Yeah. And it's something for me too. It's not
just a vendor conversation. It'snot just about products and
services. Right?
Like, it's about practicalsolutions on on selling and how
to do that.
Casey Cheshire (11:07):
I mean, if this doesn't make you wanna listen to
a podcast, I don't know whatdoes. Funnelize with also
hearing behind the scenes of,yeah, this is we are we are
listening to our own pod. We aredoing what we're saying we're
doing. Lou, that seemed toreally resonate with you.
Lou Rabon (11:22):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, I I was I'm not gonna
lie. I was a bit not skepticalbecause there you know, I I'm
full disclosure, maybe this isnot the right statement to make
on National Podcast Day. Yeah.
Live, but I don't often listento podcasts. I do once in a
while, but it's not like my goto. Yeah. And I know, there are
(11:42):
people that that's all they do,especially if they have a long
commute and things like that.And it's a great way to get
through it, and I I have startedto do that more now that I am a
podcaster, to to get tips andget better at it.
So, yeah, it resonates with mebecause I'm I'm experiencing it
firsthand where I'm like, wow,there's there's real value.
That's when we started this,that was the thing. We we didn't
(12:03):
want to just make this anexercise and this is good for
marketing. We wanted people tobe able to extract some value
from it. So, I mean, that's mygoal.
Every time that I'm having theseconversations, we have a, you
know, a very light script. It'smostly conversational as you
know, but I really want to getdeeper than just the the surface
level. I want to get into somemore things that, you know, when
(12:27):
people listen, I want them to toI want it to be compelling for
them. So that's why I think it'sresonating that this is a great
forum where you wouldn'tnormally you know, in your
normal day, if you pick up thephone and just have a
conversation with someone, itmight just be like, okay,
meeting. Let's go next.
But when you're on a podcastwith the camera rolling and the
mic on, it it creates adifferent environment that can,
(12:49):
you know, pull out some maybedifferent insights.
Casey Cheshire (12:52):
Yeah. How do you how do you get that level below
that deeper conversation?
Lou Rabon (12:58):
Don't, you know, take the first answer as the, you
know, that that's the thing.It's really easy to like, okay,
Nicks. Let me just follow myscript, and and I'm not gonna
lie. You know, sometimes I'veI've done that. You're you know,
someone on your team, if I cancall her out, is is that
acceptable?
Avery, she's awesome. I feel,like, for her, you know, having
to listen to me all the time.Edit edit my mistakes out, but
(13:22):
she's given me some really greatfeedback as to how to, you know,
be be more compelling to listento and stuff like that. And
sometimes she's she's I told herdon't pull any punches, and she
hasn't. She's like, you know,this one, you could have done
this, this, this.
Maybe in the next when you dothat. And, that's helping me
because I'm like, wow. I didn'tgo deep enough there. I wasn't
(13:43):
totally listening. Like, youhave to listen too.
It's not just like, let me justget on with it. You wanna hear
what they're saying and thenreally think about it if you can
in the moment and then say, waita second. What what do you mean
by that? Let's go deeper there.
Casey Cheshire (13:56):
Yeah. Great answer. Next question. Right?
It's that Exactly.
Tell me more, like, what exactlyis underneath there, but that
has to keep you in. Like, youhave to be interested in it too.
Otherwise, then you're just sortof a talking figurehead. Yeah.
Lou Rabon (14:14):
No one's going to listen to that.
Casey Cheshire (14:15):
Right. Right. No. But it's it's always fun to
you know, whenever you go thesecond or third level, it almost
feels like that's really wherethe treasure is. And it it's
almost like you had to do thework to just get rid of that
first surface level.
Yeah. Okay. Cool. But then tellme let's go dig below that to
find what's really below. Butbut you know what?
You you've you've you've put inso much you know, you've gotten
(14:38):
these episodes out there. You'rewell past pod fading. That is in
the distance. You're not gonna,you know, start a pod and have
it just, you know, pit her outafter three episodes. So you've
got some experience.
Looking back to when you firststarted, what would you say was,
like, one of the biggestchallenges?
Lou Rabon (14:55):
I've I think understanding how to to
structure the show, and you guysdid a great job helping with
that. But me personally, becauseI didn't have the experience I
mean, first, the intros. I'mactually honestly still not
really good at the intros. Like,I just saw your intro, and I'm
like Start a big group notes.Like, you know Oh,
Casey Cheshire (15:15):
it was crap too. Mine was totally it's different
format, but I appreciate that.
Lou Rabon (15:19):
Well, no. It was much better than mine. And, so I'm
even rerecording an intro that Irecently did.
Casey Cheshire (15:26):
Oh, yeah? For
Lou Rabon (15:26):
Newbury. Yeah. Because it just didn't hit the
mark. So intros are still aproblem for me, not even, you
know, that's an ongoing thing. II gotta get better at that
because I am reading at thatpoint.
Casey Cheshire (15:35):
Oh, And
Lou Rabon (15:37):
yeah, I guess the challenge was that it was it was
I didn't understand the formatyet because I hadn't done enough
of it. It's kind of likeanything, you know, once you
start in the beginning, you justjust a big unknown. So, I'm
getting more comfortable withthe conversational aspect. I
don't need my notes as much. Andthose so those challenges are
going away.
And now now the challenges arejust getting better at it.
Casey Cheshire (15:59):
Yeah. Right? And and what's crazy is like each
and every episode is anopportunity to do that. Mhmm.
Karen, what about you?
Any any challenges come to mind?You are just such a badass
marketer, by the way. You couldsend
Karen Sung (16:09):
We are.
Casey Cheshire (16:10):
No answer because I feel like challenges
run the opposite direction whenyou come, but I don't know
you're willing to
Karen Sung (16:16):
I wish. That would be nice. Yeah. I mean, Tiller's
point, I think, you know, he isa great conversationalist to
begin with, though he's doing areally good job, like, you know,
digging under there and actuallyhaving a conversation versus
asking those questions. But,like, challenges for me as a
marketer, I would say, you know,it comes from a totally
different angle.
(16:36):
Right? I'm not on the podcast.I'm asking the questions. So for
me, it was more of a logisticsthing. Right?
Like, how is this podcast gonnahelp us, from a marketing
perspective, like, for SEO, forbacklinks, for, you know, all of
the different things that we wewant a podcast to help us with.
Those were the things that I hadto think about when we were
(16:57):
setting up the show. And then,you know, even before that, it
would be, you know, who is ouraudience? You know, why do we
wanna speak to this audience?What is the thing that they
wanna learn?
How are we gonna provide valueto them? So I'd say those are
the two, you know, areas thatwere the most challenging. And
now, you know, it's prettysimple from, you know, a
logistics point of view for me.You know, we we are just kinda
(17:21):
like running to the podcast nowand and it's and it's going, you
know, and I can see, like, I'veset up some dashboards so I can
see the metrics of how ourpodcasts are performing. And I
can see, you know, like, whichones are performing better.
And, you know, I have given Loumy own notes as well. Like, I
think, you know, we only learnfrom the things that maybe
(17:43):
didn't go as well as we wantedthem to go. And, you know, the
fact that we're learning andevolving as we go, it's it's
really exciting to see theprogress as as we evolve and and
move on to our next podcast.
Casey Cheshire (17:57):
Yeah. No. In in in launching the podcast with
both of you, I was reallyexcited to be able to have you
both on this live to celebrateyour podcast because sometimes
we're launching a podcast and wedon't have that marketing leader
closely associated with theproject or even at the company.
And then oftentimes thoseconversations of who should we
be talking to, they can be verymisguided or not very
(18:21):
intentional. And so it was verycool working with you guys from
the beginning to be like, okay,intentionally, let's target
these people.
Let's have great conversations.We can help these people. Let's
get them on the pod. So that wasthat was always great. And it
but I gotta say, Lou, you'regetting notes from Avery and
from Karen.
Lou Rabon (18:40):
Oh, yeah.
Karen Sung (18:41):
Yeah. Let's be clear, Casey. Your team has done
an amazing job of, like, gettingus to this point. Without your
team and without that supportand without, you know, all of
your documentation and all ofyour, you know, step by step
instructions, we wouldn't behere today. So, you know, thank
you, and and kudos to everyoneon your team.
(19:02):
You you guys have builtsomething really cool.
Casey Cheshire (19:05):
I appreciate that. And I know Avery and the
rest of the team do andChristina on launch and all
that. It's been fun seeing thisthing come to life and more
bringing in the secrets. Know?Everyone wants to know the
secrets, and I know we're gonnatalk more about you know,
repurposing content is reallythe thing, and I'm I'm glad
you're obsessed with that,Karen, because we gotta figure
out how to we have this reallygood conversation.
(19:25):
Let's let's do whatever we needto do, slice and dice, get
everyone a chance to consume it.But kind of a a shift to a fun
question here. I don't know,ring review, if any behind the
scenes bloopers have occurred orany moments from, you know, off
the camera.
Lou Rabon (19:44):
Yeah. I think well, one of the things that I've got
now in my notes is do not closeyour browser tab. And then at
the end of the show, do notclose your browser tab because
what we're using, that's itrecords in the browser.
Apparently, it doesn't cache itlocally, so I've had to
rerecord. I'm actually doingthat this week.
(20:06):
One of the episodes. So we did awhole hour episode completely. I
the audio was preserved, but thevideo wasn't. And so we spoke to
the guests, and they were like,yeah, that's fine. And they're
very cool and a great person tospeak to.
So, yeah, I don't we both don'tmind redoing it, but that's
probably the I don't know howfun that is. Yeah. That's more
of a cautionary tale thananything else.
Casey Cheshire (20:30):
Totally. How about you, Karen? Anything
behind the scenes that thatstood out?
Karen Sung (20:34):
I don't have any bloopers. I think, you know, for
me, it was it it was the whole Ihad to do a Zapier connection to
to make sure that the podcastwas going on to our website. So
that was, like, a whole deal,but, you know, no bloopers
exactly.
Casey Cheshire (20:51):
That was a deal. Yeah. I remember that. That's
kudos for sorting that out.Yeah.
Not everyone is is leveraging tothat extent, so that's really,
really impressive.
Karen Sung (21:02):
Hard to be streamlined around here.
Casey Cheshire (21:04):
Yeah. Right? Well, might as well. Yeah. Well,
yeah, on that note, if if eitherof you were chatting with, you
know, another founder, marketingleader at a b to b company, and
they're either just starting outor haven't started out on a
podcast yet, any advice youwould give them?
Karen Sung (21:20):
I would say be prepared to give this full
attention and some time in thebeginning, especially. And,
like, if you don't have the timefor it, like, you you better
carve out the time for it. And,you know, this is having a
podcast like this and andfinding, a meaningful an
(21:41):
audience and a meaningfulconversation can be so helpful
to your brand and to yourproduct or service or whatever
you're doing. So I would sayjust, you know, carve out that
time and and be dedicated to it,and it will pay off because it's
a lot of time in the beginning.But, you know, as as you start
to get a cadence, it will itwill even out.
(22:03):
I don't know if I can say thesame about Lou because he's at
the one recording the podcast,you know, weeklies. Yeah.
Lou Rabon (22:11):
No. I mean, it's spot on. I it's Karen was a strong,
you know, advocate for doingthis. In the beginning, I was
not skeptical, but it's timecommitment. What I would say is
the the advice is, yeah, it'sworth it.
Definitely, you know, go for itbecause I think we're there
there's so many requisitebenefits to it such as, you you
(22:37):
know, you're getting content.Your point where you're you can
repurpose, put on the sake, putit on LinkedIn, you know, spread
it around, keep it fresh. You'reand then having, you know,
ringmaster actually produces forus makes it a lot easier. I I've
spoken to a couple guests thatalso have their own pods, and
they're doing the the editingthemselves. I'm like, I don't
(22:58):
know how you have the time onthe dairy.
You know, the fact that you'rebringing a team, you're making
it easy for us, Casey. It'sbasically show up and and all
the prep work that's done toKaren's point. You gotta do the
prep work before not just beforethe pod is launched, but also in
within it. And that's what I'velearned. Like, one of the
(23:18):
reasons I my intros tend to beflat is I my schedule's packed.
So I'm going from, like, contextswitching craze like crazy, and
then, you know, meeting meeting,and then I'm like, okay. Drop
the meeting. I'm two minuteslate for the pod, and I haven't
even looked at the guests thatI'm speaking to, you know, like
their notes. And so what I'vejust it's funny, like, literally
(23:40):
right before this or maybe evenwhile I was in the waiting for
green room here, I was, isslacking with Avery, and I said,
hey. I'm I'm gonna put a buffernow between these guests
because, and that would beadvice I would give is take the
time, not just in the prep.
They're like, well, one, do it.Everyone should definitely do a
podcast. I I think if they'vegot something to say, like, if
(24:02):
you're just gonna read from ascript or something, don't it's
not worth it. Like, reallycommit to it. And then as Karen
said, put the time in for theprep before, you know, you even
launch, but then make sure youhave a buffer.
That's one of my big learningsat before, like, fifteen minutes
before so you can kinda clearyour head, do some maybe voice
that you can hear. I didn't Icame from a meeting here. I'm
(24:23):
having voice like, So it's like
Casey Cheshire (24:26):
Get some water.
Lou Rabon (24:27):
Yeah. You know? Like, get some water. It's you know?
Exactly.
And then take the time beforeyou actually are recording to
kinda get your head straight,get get your notes about the
guest, things like that. That'sthose are the big ones. Yeah.
Wise words.
Karen Sung (24:42):
I would say one more. I think one more. Also,
when you're picking your speakerto make sure that that person is
an engaging speaker that theycan have a conversation that is
not just answering questions orasking questions. Right? Not
everybody is good at it.
You know, I'm not good at it,but making sure that you pick
(25:03):
somebody that is comfortablewith that and and being engaging
in that back and forth banter.
Casey Cheshire (25:09):
Yeah. That's a really good point. And I know
we're still trying to find areplacement for Lou, but,
Karen Sung (25:14):
you
Casey Cheshire (25:14):
know, the outpost is still out there. No.
No. Lou, you do a great job.And, again, it's it's it's
getting you know, asking thosequestions and finding out more
about them as a person, not justas, you know, that role they are
at their company.
Lou Rabon (25:29):
Yeah.
Casey Cheshire (25:30):
So CDG, Cyber Defense Group, sponsoring the
show, making the show happen.Who are you guys? What do you
do?
Lou Rabon (25:39):
Yeah. I guess I that's an appropriate place for
me to start. We do cybersecurityconsulting, strategic advisory,
really helping companies embedsecurity programs or improve
their security programs. We'reaimed at the mid market and
enterprise. We do sell throughthis trusted advisor channel,
(25:59):
although we have direct clientsas well.
And our value proposition isthat we are a fixed rate. It's
if you can find a consultantthat's fixed rate these days,
you know, over a recurringperiod, we we do these programs
over multiple years. Andtherefore, we we keep it at a
fixed cost because we have theselong term relationships. And
(26:20):
we've all done, we're allpractitioners. We've all been
cybersecurity, you know, titledin fortune 500 companies doing
this for for other, you know,bigger companies And therefore,
you know, it makes us we wewe've been there.
Been there. Done that. So thatthat's pretty much who we are.
There's a lot more behind that.But I think at a high level,
(26:42):
Karen, please, if I missed And
Karen Sung (26:43):
one thing that I didn't mention is that we based
off of outcomes that wereoutcomes based security. So
there's a lot of otherconsulting firms out there that,
you know, they they give you anhourly rate card. We based our
programs on outcomes and theoutcome that are meant for each
business. So they're customizedfor each business.
Lou Rabon (27:06):
Yeah. By the way, that's the trademark for
outcomes based security rightthere. So Wow.
Casey Cheshire (27:12):
Probably sooner. Three of you left. I know. She's
alleged.
Lou Rabon (27:16):
Yeah. So because that's yeah. When you think
about security programs, I mean,security is such a a big,
seemingly complex target, ortopic, and it's not actually
that complex, at least to us,because it really is about, you
know, repeatable processes,continuous improvement,
etcetera, and outcomes based onwhat you want to achieve. So if
(27:40):
your business is an onlinecompany and you don't want to
get, you know, something badhappening, you will embed a
security program that can catchbad things and make sure that
you can get over them when ithappens. Not if, but when.
And that's what outcomes are.Like, the outcome is the site
stays up. The you know, we we'vewe've treated our risks to an
(28:01):
appropriate point. And sothanks, Karen, for reminding me
about our trademark. But, yeah,outcome we've we we have kind of
cornered that as part of our ourservices that we're providing,
that they're all outcomes based.
Casey Cheshire (28:16):
Wow. Powerful. Yeah. I I love that both of you
have you could the passion is isvisible there. And and the idea
of the outcome, like, whodoesn't want that?
I don't just wanna pay a ratecard to have unknown outcomes.
Lou Rabon (28:31):
Exactly.
Casey Cheshire (28:33):
Sounds like a no brainer, but it has to be said.
Lou Rabon (28:35):
Yeah. That's what we're solving for because that's
been the traditional consultingmodel.
Casey Cheshire (28:40):
Yeah. Alright. Well, I would I would end with
that, but I have one morequestion to throw at both of
you. They're for hypotheticalquestion because the rumor is I
might have a time machine herein New Hampshire. So the next
time you guys come do a customerevent, Boston or whatnot, come
north a little bit, get somelobsters, some beer, use a time
machine.
(29:01):
Definitely. But particular kind.So we're gonna go in the future.
We're gonna we're gonna see yourpodcast 50 episodes from now,
like a full year from now, justcurious, what would you love to
see? What would you love tothink about it at that point?
Lou Rabon (29:19):
What I Karen, what do you think? You want me to
Karen Sung (29:22):
a big question. You know, I think I would love to
just see the continuedrelationships that we've bridged
with all of these conversations.Like, that's 50 conversations
with 50 different people. Andthen if you count the the prep
time, you know, once or twicebefore that, that's a 100
conversations. So I'd I'd loveto see, stronger relationships
(29:47):
that have been built because ofthe conversations that we're
having.
And that was, you know,generally the the main purpose
of the show, but it evolved tosomething much bigger than that.
So I I'd like to see just, youknow, better relationships with
the people that we've we'vetalked to and and see more more,
(30:07):
cadence with those people.
Lou Rabon (30:10):
Yeah. And for me, I I'd like to, look at the metrics
and determine which, episodesreally hit so we can then do the
next 50 and determine who ourguests are and the content based
on that. Do we keep it, youknow, really secrets focused or
maybe it's more maybe we go moreinto cyber. Maybe we go more
into sales. You know, whateverthe case, I think, I I would
(30:33):
like to after 50 episodes, thereshould be enough information.
Yeah. Yeah. Go to the next 15.
Casey Cheshire (30:41):
And also what you like talking about too and
and what results with you know,what the audience what they
resounds with them. Yep. Maybeit's a little bit of both. Maybe
it's all of the above with thoseYeah. Have some deep dives, have
some some some more salescorners.
Yeah. I mean,
Karen Sung (30:55):
yeah,
Casey Cheshire (30:56):
sky's the limit with that.
Lou Rabon (30:57):
That's great. I'd I'd love to get some you know, pick
some stocks too that fifty yearsin the future or fifty one year
in the future, I can once I've,you know, chosen them in your
time machine, I can invest inthem when I go back a year, and
then we'll have a greatconversation.
Casey Cheshire (31:13):
There is there is a commission on there.
There's a finder's fee on thattime on that time trial. You
know? Yeah. Well, this has beenfantastic.
Hey. Where can people go if theywanna learn more about Cyber
Defense Group? If they wanna getthe the podcast, where should
they go?
Karen Sung (31:30):
Yeah. They can go to, cdg.io. That's our website,
Cyber Defense Group. And for thechannel, podcast, it's called
channel security secret, andit's on literally anything you
can watch or listen to a podcaston YouTube, Spotify, Apple
Music, all of their above plusmore that I don't don't even
(31:52):
know, what the names of themare. So it's called channel
security secret.
Casey Cheshire (31:58):
Awesome. Yeah. And I like to subscribe on,
Spotify. It's great. Looksreally cool, really cool artwork
and everything.
Well, guys, this has beenawesome. Luke, Karen, thank you
so much for coming on here. Ifeel like this has been like a
mini masterclass in in talkingabout outcomes and the kind of
security that you guys provideand the environment you're in,
(32:19):
the industry that you're in, thefact that you've been using
podcasts to address it. This hasbeen fantastic. Thank you both
for coming on here.
Karen Sung (32:26):
Thanks, Thank you for having us.
Lou Rabon (32:28):
It was a lot of fun.
Casey Cheshire (32:30):
Absolutely. For those listening, if you learned
something, go check this thingout. With that, everyone have a
great and very happyInternational Podcast Day. We'll
see you on the next one.
Lou Rabon (32:43):
That's a wrap for this episode of Channel Security
Secrets. Thanks for tuning in.For show notes, guest info, and
more episodes, visit us atchannelsecuritysecrets.com.
Channel Security Secrets issponsored by Cyber Defense
Group. When it comes toprotecting your business, don't
settle for reactive.
Partner with experts who buildresilience from the ground up.
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