Proactive Cyber Defense - Tony Pietrocola - Channel Security Secrets - Episode #3 - Channel Security Secrets

Episode Transcript
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Lou Rabon (00:01):
Welcome to Channel Security Secrets. I'm Lou Raban.
On this show, we expose theuntold secrets and critical
insights from the people shapingthe future of cybersecurity
sales in the trusted adviserchannel. If you're looking to up
your game around sellingsecurity, stick around. Channel
Security Secrets is brought toyou by Cyber Defense Group on a
mission to shift cybersecurityfrom reactive to resilient.

(00:38):
I cannot wait to welcome today'sguest. He's an entrepreneur,
speaker, cybersecurity leaderwith over twenty years
experience. He's founded andscaled two high growth tech
companies and led organizationsfrom startups, early stage
startups to high growth firms.He's currently serving as the
president of the Northern OhioInfraGard Members Alliance, and

(00:59):
he partners with the FBI toadvance security and resilience.
Please welcome the president atAgile Blue, Tony Pietrocola.
Welcome to the show.

Tony Pietrocola (01:09):
Lou, thanks for having me, and you you you you
got the

Lou Rabon (01:11):
last name pegged, so I appreciate it. Boom. You know,
my fellow Italian brother. Soso, Tony, let's just start it
off big. What's the biggestsecret to your success in the
channel?

If I had to, choose something that's really
important, I would say you haveto obsess over your customers. I
that's not mine. I learned thatfrom reading something from Jeff
Bezos back in, like, like,February. But I think in the
channel Lou, if you obsess overyour customers and that is the
thing I I don't see how youcan't be successful. I think if

(01:51):
you don't, that's where thingsstart falling apart because not
only your reputation, but thereputation of your partners
obviously can be affected.
I think if you obsess over yourcustomers, everything can take
care of them itself.

Lou Rabon (02:03):
So customer obsession, how are you doing
that? How does AgileBlueaccomplish that?

You know, we're in security. Right? So ours is
maybe a tad different. Although,does it really matter across the
board? But number one, ourcustomers need to know twenty
four seven that everybody atAgileBlue is tirelessly working
to make sure they're not hacked.
Right? That's a big deal. Theyneed to know whether it's 2AM or
2PM, things are going right. SoI think that amount of trust and

(02:32):
trust only comes with what theysee, not how, you know, words
look on our proposal. Do I wouldjust say this?
And again, this applies to anybusiness. You gotta have great
people, superlative people. Youknow, everybody always hears,
you know, the a players. Okay.What's an a player?
What's a b player? But justgreat people. Right? Great
people who work hard, know theircraft, care. I don't care what

(02:54):
business you're in, whetheryou're in a restaurant or
whether you're in cybersecurity.
I think that's a pretty criticalelement to making sure those
customers know you're reallythinking about them.

Lou Rabon (03:02):
Yeah. I always admire. It's funny you say that
because going into businessesthat I always it doesn't matter
what kind of business it is. Ifit's well run, it's got good
staff. They concentrate oncustomer experiences.
A restaurant around here,Pasadena, that just is
consistently good at all thetime. And it's, you know, I know
what I'm gonna get when I'm Igot people out of town. I bring

(03:24):
them there because I know thefood's gonna be good. It's not
cheap, but, you know, you getwhat you pay for. Right?
So, yeah, customer obsession andand and, you know, one of the
ways to do that is to hire goodstaff. So bringing it back to
the channel and TAs, how wouldyou suggest if they are trying

(03:45):
to get into security? Because Ithink security is new to the
channel. Right? Relatively.
Yeah. You know, it's been aroundfor a long time, the channel,
but security is kinda in thelast couple years just started
to gain traction. What do youtalk tell TAs? How do you talk
to them if they wanna get intosecurity, but they haven't sold
it before?

You know what, Lou? I'll answer but I'd also
like to hear from you because Ithink you're probably going to
have a tremendous perspective. Iwas having breakfast last week
with a top person at Telarus andyou know, they said something
interesting. I asked the samequestion. I'm like, why are more
TAs not jumping in with cyber?
And he said, you know, reallycomes down to one thing and it

(04:25):
probably comes back to what Isaid, you obsess over customers
but TAs have spent their wholelives building their business on
trust. Their customers know whatthey need. Trust them. If they
go in with cyber and the TAitself doesn't understand cyber
tremendously. Can't answer alltheir questions.
You know, they literally believeit's going to put them at a
disadvantage and and may maybemake them look maybe not as high

(04:48):
level as they as they are knownfor whatever they do. And I
think that's wrong. I think youcan go in and say, hey, cyber is
where everything's going.Everything we do for you is
gotta be wrapped aroundsecurity. Look.
I am not, you know, an expertwhen it comes to this, but we
have some great people behindus. Let's start the discussion.
What are you using for x? Whatare you doing for y? And let's

(05:10):
start the discussion and thenbring in experts.
Like, nobody expects a one manshow. You know, nobody just
wants Paul McCartney. I think Ithink everybody just wants the
Beatles. Right? We definitelybalance.
So, I'd like to hear from youand what you're seeing the same
thing. I think they just need toget started and know they got
backup from their partners andfrom the and from the TSDs.

Lou Rabon (05:32):
Yeah. That's that's pretty much what we tell them. I
mean, it's I think fear has alot to do with it. Right? Like,
something they haven't soldbefore.
Cyber can be a black box.There's, you know, a billion
talking heads out there now thatpretend to be experts and, you
know, maybe point zero onepercent actually are. And so,
you know, there's an element ofintimidation, I think, where

(05:52):
it's like, hey. If I open mymouth about this, they're gonna
start asking questions, and Idon't know the answers out of my
depth. So it's easier to sellthe stuff that they've been
selling.
But to your point, we say, hey.That's the time to say, bring in
the experts. You're not expectedto know. Cyber is a complicated
topic. It can be overwhelming,and and the customers shouldn't

(06:13):
expect the the trusted advisersto be the experts necessarily.
They should expect them to beable to get the answers from the
experts. So I think beingcomfortable saying, I don't
know, but I I got a guy. That'sthat's the way, Stefan Semoroff
has explained it to me. I got aguy. That's that's where the TA
should go with that.

Yeah. I I I totally agree, and the ones
we've seen be successful havetaken down that that, you know,
that barrier and they've chargedforward with it and they're
doing great. And some of theother ones, they just need to
probably take that leap.

Lou Rabon (06:45):
Yeah. And and we also see that it's difficult for them
when when you've got acomplicated, not complicated,
but a cyber cell where you'respeaking maybe to a point, a
part of the organization thatyou haven't spoken before,
because maybe now you're goingfrom the IT area to if they have
a separate security area, ifit's a big enough company, then,
you know, different set ofpeople, different set of

(07:06):
stakeholders. Sometimes they'regetting to the c suite, and and
they might have been speaking toa couple lower levels prior. You
know, it's an uncomfortable areafor them, and it's less
sometimes the dollar amounts area little bit lower. Like if
you're selling bandwidth, ifyou're selling data centers, you
know, there might be a couplemore zeros and it might be an

(07:27):
easier sale.
But to your point back to trust,you know, and really doing
customer obsession, the way thatwe describe it, it's like you're
going to get much closer to yourcustomer because you're you're
now you're going to get exposureto everything because cyber has
to have a view of the entireorganization. Right? And in
doing that, you'll be able tohear other opportunities that

(07:48):
might lead to those bigger salespotentially, but what you're
doing is creating trust andstickiness with the customer,
and that's that's where we tryto push them.

I I would agree, and I would also say
this, when it comes down todollars and cents, the revenue
in cyber, I think the margins incyber are pretty darn good. So.
Yeah. That's helped the TA helptheir customer. It's going to
help the TA grow his or herbusiness which, you know, we're
all capitalists here.
Let's that's that's the whole,

Lou Rabon (08:15):
right? A 100%. That's why we're here. I mean, we wanna
help people and we also, youknow, wanna make money doing it
and hopefully have some fun aswell. So with the TA that's a
non practitioner, do you haveany advice for them to kinda
open that conversation otherthan saying, hey.
I I know someone. I got a guy.Is there a way for for them to

(08:36):
kind of open that conversationeven if they're not comfortable
with Sabra yet?

You know, I think it's that real easy
question of, hey. When it comesto cybersecurity, you know, is
that keeping you up at night?And and look. Question, I really
do. I hate when people ask me,like, what keeps you up at
night?
To me, it's an upset customer.It's not necessarily a cyber
upset customer but if a TA whois not extraordinarily well

(09:02):
cyber secure verse and doesn'twant to dive into, hey, what are
you doing for cloud security orfire you know, all that stuff.
Mhmm. Up at night from a cyberperspective, you know? Do you
think about, you know, eitheryou you know, being hacked for
data, ransomware?
Do you do you fear businessdisruption? I would think every

(09:23):
customer would say, yeah, yeah,and absolutely, right? So,
starts the conversation goingand look, if people are saying,
hey, we know you've moved to thecloud. Do you think the cloud is
completely protected? Do youunderstand it's a shared
responsibility between you andAmazon, Microsoft?
I think those questions forintelligent TAs are very simple.

(09:44):
You don't need to beextraordinarily technical to ask
if they really understand theirbusiness can't be disrupted or
can't be hacked. I think it's agreat way to dive in. And then
if somebody goes, you know, andwe have been thinking about
security operations or we'vebeen thinking about having
somebody, you know, being ableto respond twenty four seven or
look, man, we need we need weneed help at 365. All of a

(10:04):
sudden, the TA can then hearthose those those keywords and
now say, hey, great.
Look. I'm not gonna answer allyour questions, but I got
someone we work with. They're anexpert in this. Let's set up a
twenty minute call and kindadive in. I don't see where that
puts anybody in a bad light.
And especially saying, hey, I Iwork with someone I trust. I'm a

(10:25):
trusted adviser. I trust thisperson. You trust me. Let's put
this conversation together.
It seems to me to be prettysimple to start the
conversation.

Lou Rabon (10:35):
Yeah. And what about sales cycles? Do you find that
that's, are they, longer,shorter with security? Is it
variable?

You know, I guess I don't have anything to
to pin it to. I will say this,we've seen sales cycles in
security be right around ninetydays or so. Even when, you know,
back in February, March whentariffs got a little a little,
you know, wonky and peopledidn't know what the heck was
going on. We saw it maybe go upto 94, 96, but right now we're

(11:05):
seeing it right back at that 90.And that's pretty typical what
we see in in what we sell interms of security and and SaaS
in security.
I think that's great. What whatare you seeing? And I I'd ask
you also from a consultativeadvisory perspective. Are you
seeing 90? Are you seeing itexpand a little bit?

Lou Rabon (11:24):
Yeah. It's listen. I mean, probably two years ago,
even maybe last year, sometimesit was one eighty plus, which
was, you know, really painful.Sales cycles have definitely
compressed. I think the market'sfinally getting educated about
what they need.
I mean, we've gone throughmultiple cycles, right, of of

(11:44):
selling and buying cybersecurityin the market. In the beginning,
just no one knew anything, andit was everyone was looking for
the silver bullet, etcetera. Inthe middle, it was, you know,
now we need we understand thatwe need certain components, but
they were outsourcing thingsmaybe that they shouldn't have,
or they were insourcing thingsthey should have outsourced,
stuff like that, maybe buyingthe wrong vendors again. And

(12:07):
then finally, now we're seeingthe more sophisticated buyers.
They understand.
That's our model, you know, atCyber Defense Group that I run,
and it's to to get people in toa program, basically. Not just
try to plug the holes with yourfingers, but have a strategy,
unplugging the holes and makingsure the ship doesn't sink. But
you know? So the sales cycleshave elongated, but now it's I

(12:30):
think they are coming back. Andsometimes it's an investment,
like anything.
We might speak. And to yourpoint, when the TA reaches out
and says, hey, I've got someoneand they might get you on the
call, your team or my team. Whatthey're going to do is that
we'll speak to that customer andthey might not be ready. It
might be a six month. It mighteven be a twelve month down the

(12:52):
line kind of project.
So obviously, want the ones thatare like, hey, we're ready to
buy today. Sales cycles likefive days. That's usually
incident response and that's awhole another thing. But, you
know, typical sales cycles, theymight be forty five to ninety
days if it's a decently quicksale. But sometimes we're just
putting in the time to educate.

(13:13):
And that's what we find is if weinvest and educate, and those
are the TAs we like to work withtoo, that have a long term view,
that want to have a, you know,take a journey with the customer
and with us rather than justtrying to get the quick win and
and get free quotes. So I thinkthere's yeah. Definitely
something there where investingin that is is important. So TAs

(13:34):
just need to reach outessentially.

You mentioned the keyword. The word was
investment. You know, it'sfunny, like, when it comes to
cyber, you know, some folks arelike, you know, is that
something we need? Is thatsomething that's a must? Is if
your business can't be disruptedor your data or your customer's
data stolen, I don't see that asa nice to have.
I I can't see how that's not acritical to have in this day and

(13:57):
age. I really can't. But some ofthat's education. Some of it is
it's I understand it's anexpense but it's really an
investment in keeping yourbusiness operating. Like that
that's to me is is really gottabe the mindset.

Lou Rabon (14:08):
Yeah. Listen, the the having a cybersecurity plan and
program is basically tablestakes. The cost of doing
business today. It's no longer,you know, optional. It's funny
because I I I'm old enough toremember when people were like,
hey, we're not Fort Knox.
This is, like, twenty years ago.And and, literally, they really
could I didn't have an argumentfor that because they weren't a

(14:31):
target. You know? All thethreats were not as, prevalent.
We're talking, like, latenineties, early odds.
Right? And they could go back topaper because ever guess what?
Everybody was still using faxesand paper. So if they're the one
computer in the office out of,you know, 10 employees went down
or whatever, they they couldthey could continue. But these
days, who's not using theInternet?

(14:53):
Who's not using technology? Youknow, everything we do is
wrapped around technology, andthe the more efficient and
better we are at stuff, the moretechnology we have. So to your
point, that goes down,productivity stops. And you
know, you've been part ofincident responses. I've been
I've been leading these things.
It's it's a disaster, you know,but we we try to, you know, to

(15:16):
the investment conversation, wereally try to steer towards ROI
because when we speak about, youknow, the sky is falling, all
these hackers, hackers inhoodies, people are fatigued.
They've got breach fatigue.They, you know, you if you go
down that road and that'sanother real tip for, you know,
any TAs that are trying to sellsecurity, I would stay away from

(15:36):
the doom and gloom scenariosother than saying, hey, you
know, there's a cost here if youdon't do something. But but
concentrating on it and usingthat as a tactic, I think, is
getting it's not getting thetraction it needs because people
are saying, you go down thatroad, they're like, well,
listen. Everyone's been hacked.
So these huge companies arespending, you know, hundreds of

(15:57):
millions of dollars on security.So why, you know, that means
it's inevitable and you can kindof get like a defeatist attitude
there. So I like, you know,positioning it as an investment.
There's an ROI. You invest insecurity today.
You're not going to have a lossof productivity down the road
and a loss of customers,etcetera. We've even released a

(16:17):
whole, know, security budgetsheet that what what is the true
cost of a breach? That's kind ofstuff that that companies need
to look at.

Yeah. I think we're all tired of presentations
starting with, you know, here'show big ransomware is. Here's
how many people are gettinghacked by the day. Oh, look,
someone just got hacked justnow. You know, don't let this be
you.
Like, look, we all we all knowthat. Like that. Exactly. That's
not table stakes. That is deadstakes.
We all know that. Now, here'swhat we do and how we can help

(16:47):
you avoid x, y, and z. That'sthe proactive discussion. These
people are smart enough tounderstand. No one wants to be
hacked.
It's 2025. We all understandthis. Right? This is in 02/2005.
That fear also makes peoplethink, look, do they really have
something to sell or are theyjust, you know, preying on my
fears?
So let's talk about the solutionthat's going to stop, I don't

(17:08):
know, ransomware or an AI attackor a deepfake. That's what
people are thinking, specificsolutions. How can you help me?

Lou Rabon (17:16):
Yeah. So AgileBlue is one piece of that puzzle. How
are you helping TAs? When theycome to you and they say, okay.
We MDR, you're doing, you know,managed detection response.
How when TAs engage with you,what is the best way for them to
kind of engage with you? How areyou positioning yourself in kind

(17:37):
of the whole security stack,etcetera?

You know, there's two really two big
angles for us that do securityoperations and MDR, managed
detection and response as partof security ops or another
acronym, sec ops. Right? There'sso many acronyms.

Lou Rabon (17:51):
You see the

For one is when they're trying to show their
customers who are generally midmarket, maybe they're they're
smaller enterprise but they'regenerally in that mid market. Do
you have a twenty fourseventeen? And the answer is
invariably, we don't, right?They might go maybe a little
later in the day, but theygenerally don't have a twenty
four seven team. So they'relooking for someone to bring in

(18:15):
the technology and the twentyfour seven team to not just
monitor and detect, butobviously respond whether that's
2PM or 2AM.
Someone's gotta do something tomake sure you're not getting
hacked. That's number one, whichis one of the fastest growing
pieces within the cybersecuritystack. And then number two,
look. I still believe regardlessof of the economic conditions,

(18:38):
which we think are pretty goodand we're seeing being pretty
good. It's vendor consolidation.
Right? Do the average midmarket, this is according to
Gartner. Mid market companiesgot eight to 12 vendors and and
small enterprise up could be 12to 20. Do you really have the
ability to manage these vendors?Is all the implement all the
tools integrated?

(18:59):
Are they siloed? And the data isnot even being shared to
correlate the data into intoprotection. So in our platform,
we have eight modules thatdefinitely allows these
enterprises or these these midsized businesses to consolidate
vendors. They're going to gowith us. Maybe we could take the
place of four, five, six, up toeight vendors, one platform.

(19:21):
I like to say one back to tap.Some people will say choke,
whatever, whatever. I'm going togo on the proactive side but
that helps them do two things,not just manage, manage less
vendors. It does help them bringtheir their their cost down.
Even though it's an investment,still not cheap.
You know, nobody is incybersecurity because it's a
cheap you know, place to be butit does help them bring their

(19:43):
cost down. There's zero doubtabout that. So those are really
the two big spots where TAs canstart ringing the ears of their
their prospects in in in termsof what's gonna help them answer
that email, return that phonecall, whatever it may be.

Lou Rabon (19:58):
So someone has a t a a TA gets an inbound lead that
says, hey. We need security.Would they be able to come to
you and say, you you could startthat conversation at least, even
if they don't have you know, thethe customer might have an
existing or to your point, kindof a suite of tools, but maybe
they just lost their head ofsecurity. Maybe they're looking

(20:19):
to go in another direction.Maybe they're downsizing, and
they're like, hey.
And we need to save some money.Are those are all good reasons
to reach out to you? Yeah?

Literally. And or they're moving from data
center on prem into the cloud ormaybe they're they're hybrid and
now totally moving into thecloud. So their security posture
which basically people put upendpoints and a firewall and be
like, we're good. Now, and sinceremote work became such a, well,
it's everything and people areeverything's in the cloud and

(20:49):
remote. You have now 5,000offices, not just two.
Now your security thoughts havechanged. So the it's not even do
you have cybersecurity? It'syour business has changed. The
cybersecurity's now changed. Doyou have the tools you think you
need for the way that, you know,business is now operating?
And I don't think a lot ofpeople would say 100%
absolutely. I think that's alsoa great starter of the

(21:12):
conversation. Remote works here.We're a remote company now. How
do we think about security?

Lou Rabon (21:18):
And are there any industries specifically that
you're seeing more uptake?Obviously, health care and
finance have always been the toptwo for regulatory reasons and
and etcetera. Finance,especially, because there's a
very obvious cost. They breakin. Money is lost immediately.
So what about any otherindustries that you're seeing?

Yeah. We're seeing two things. Number one,
any organization that's sellingto the federal government with
the new CMMC stuff that needs tobe adhered to here at the end of
this year and then the the leveltwo at the end of next or
however they're looking at theirCMMC. If they want to continue

(22:00):
to do business with the federalgovernment, they gotta do better
themselves because they're notgoing to be the weak chain or
the weak link in the chain withwith the with the government
supply chain. So, we're seeing alot of activity there and then
as you can imagine, we do a lotof critical infrastructure work,
things like airports, thingslike that.
That obviously is also within alot of folks reevaluating state

(22:22):
and local governments have beenhit hard. They're starting to
pay more attention, and thefederal government started under
Biden, continued through Trump.They're putting money from the
federal level into these statelocal governments to help
solidify them. So that's wherewe're seeing a lot of growth in
the security operations space.

Lou Rabon (22:42):
How about manufacturing? Have you noticed?

Yeah. I think Nick comes at it from a
different angle too. Right?There's less of what we're gonna
steal, so to speak, more aboutdisrupting the entire
manufacturing process. Yeah.
So we and it's generally thatnext level manufacturer, the
people doing things with morerobotics and software and things
like that than it is maybe yourtypical, I don't know, CNC shop

(23:09):
or something like that, right?And and those manufacturers that
are really creating high levelcomponents and and things,
absolutely. Are you seeing thatas well since you brought it up?
Ended up. Yeah.

Lou Rabon (23:20):
Yeah. Lots of manufacturing and not only
because, yeah, there's the IOTand the OT side but there's also
legacy. You've got, you know,some of these machines are, you
know, very, very expensive. So,the machines to manufacture
whatever it might be, plasticsor metal or etcetera. So when

(23:40):
you're looking at that, thosemight be 20 years old.
They might be running on anoperating system that's no
longer, you know, supported byMicrosoft or not patched for,
like, five or ten years. So butthey're not just gonna scrap it
and get a new one. It's not likean iPhone. You know? You can you
you really have to, like, investin that.
It's a capital investment. It'ssuper expensive, and it's big

(24:01):
and heavy. Just to move itaround is it, you know, costs a
lot of money. So therefore, youknow, you've gotta put the the
proper segmentation, etcetera,in place. And that's where the
strategy, comes together wherewhat you're doing is agile blue.
That's the the technology andsome of the process part. You do
provide the people too. We'redefinitely providing the people

(24:23):
in the process part. So to tokind of attack that. And so
manufacturing for sure is is upand coming, I think, and will
continue to gain traction as aas cybersecurity consumer.

I think so. And also, when you look at
manufacturing, in my opinion,only second to health care, it
has been more investmenthesitant as a as a about any
industry. So and look. A lot ofmanufacturing process now are
run by software. It where in thepast, it necessarily was run by
humans.

(24:56):
It's human. It's really easy todisrupt software.

Lou Rabon (25:01):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's tech and and security debt in a
lot of industries. But as wementioned earlier on the show,
no one is immune. You know, noone can pretty much just not
invest in security.
Obviously, education, you weretalking about SLED, so that's
part of the the, you know, thatstuff. But, yeah, especially, I

(25:22):
think education is really sadbecause they're already dealing
with low dollars. They they theydon't have enough money to do
the things that they wanna do,and now they've got to invest in
cyber. And there's a lot ofcompanies that are, you know,
vendors that might takeadvantage of them because they
have some grant money and thingslike that. So, you know, it's a
it's definitely still the WildWest.

(25:42):
You know, I feel like we'rewe're not embryonic anymore in
security, but we're like, maybewe're definitely not at toddler
stage either. We're kind of babystage.

Yeah. We we are on the defense, but the
offensive guys seem to be alittle bit more mature

Lou Rabon (25:56):
than

us.

Lou Rabon (25:57):
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's where the fun is too,
but, we're you know, offense,you don't, always have to be
right. You can try a couplethings, but defense, you you
gotta be right all the time.Otherwise, that that's when the
bad stuff happens.
So definitely more challenging.Speaking of challenges, what
what's a challenge that you andyour team have tried to solve or

(26:18):
had to solve recently?

You know, I think a big challenge for us is
in this industry. I'll speakagain very selfishly. And, you
know, as a business owner, I'msure you see this as maintaining
and retaining your top talents.Look. At the end of the our team
is made up of cyber experts andprofessionals like you.
We have a lot of AI engineers aswell because we build an AI

(26:43):
based platform. Everything Ijust mentioned is extremely in
demand. And because of remotework, you can live in Cleveland,
Ohio where we're headquarteredand still Google or Facebook or
whomever can come drop a lot ofmoney on you and you can work
for them and obviously, they'reout of California. So at the end
of the day, I think retention ofyour top people or just say your

(27:05):
entire team is a big challengeas as the I worry about my
customers of course. I worryabout our sales of course.
I worry about everything. Butthose areas take care of
themselves in my opinion.Retention of your top people it
could become a battle. And we'vehad tremendous knock on this
fake wood desk I'm standing byright now. We've had tremendous

(27:25):
retention in our five and a halfyear history.
But things are getting gettingcrazy out there. Right? People
need AI. They need cyber.They're throwing dollars around.
So we really try to work hard. Ithink it's one of our biggest
challenges making sure ourpeople are are are super happy.
See the see what we're buildinghere and see that their careers
are developing and growing in agreat company. That's tell me

(27:49):
about you. I would think andyou're in California.
So you'd probably of that.

Lou Rabon (27:54):
Yeah. I mean, listen. It was a it was really
challenging about, like, COVIDaround the co even pre COVID,
like, 2018, 2019. The salariesthat people were, you know,
demanding, really, you could becompletely useless as a as a
resource, but demand these, youknow, absolutely, like, quarter

(28:15):
million dollar plus salaries,and then expect everything like
lunch every day and stuff likethat, if you were in an office,
etcetera. So, you know, at onepoint, I I was so clueless.
I look back at, you know, themistakes that I've made. One of
them was I I I don't know if itwas a mistake, but at that time,

(28:36):
we actually had someonededicated to culture. Like, we
had one person that was, an HRperson, but also did culture.
Now that's a complete luxury.But in that market, you know, we
felt that it I thought it wasnecessary.
Looking back, I could have donewithout that. There were other
things I could have done. Butbeing a new business owner and
being in a really superhypercompetitive environment for

(28:59):
talent, that was that waschallenging. Now, you know, I've
learned to your point, there'scertain things that you do. You
provide, you know, anenvironment to grow.
You find talent that's in it notjust for the money, but that has
passion. You know, if someone'slike, okay. How much am I gonna
get? And I've got a, you know,an offer that's, you know,

(29:19):
whatever, 2% higher than thisone. It's like, go if that's
what's most important to you,then go get take the other 2% or
whatever, even if it's 10%.
Because what we're providing andwhat, you know, obviously,
you're providing if you havehigh retention, especially, it
means that it's a good place towork. It's a place that's
challenging intellectually, butpeople can grow. They can
develop. They can rise through,you know, whatever career path

(29:42):
they they have, and we help themwith that. So we've been lucky.
We've got some really, reallygood resources, but, you know,
it's been a challenge. There'sbeen some that have been many
that have been through. Youknow, when I look at my my, you
know, HR system and I look atformer employees and I look at
the list, I'm like, oh my gosh,you know, we've we've gone

(30:05):
through a lot, and and that'sjust lessons. So now the team we
have, it's taken almost tenyears to get, you know, the
right mix of people. And so, youknow, if I were to do this
again, it that timeline would becompressed, but holding on to
good talent yeah.
And finding good talent,challenging.

Challenging. And and by the way, if you wanna
obsess over customers, one ofthe easiest ways the customer
sees and talks to the samepeople every day. If they start
seeing too much turnover, all ofa sudden they're like, what's
going on at this company? Right?You might have why do you have
so many people in and out?
So that becomes a challenge. Youknow, look, I think every
company in America is probablyfacing this right now. It's not

(30:45):
just you and I or not just cyberor AI. I think everybody is. I
think the labor force is isgood.
Right? I mean, unemployment islow. Economy is pretty solid. We
got a lot of great stuff goingon. I think, it's just gonna be
a battle for people.

Lou Rabon (31:00):
Yeah. Yeah. Although it has gotten easy, there's a in
cyber right now, I know I don'tknow if you've noticed this, but
there are a lot of people thatare looking for work. But I
think what's happening, too, isA. I.
Is the the great, you know,filter in some ways, because now
there's people that used to behired and they they were doing

(31:23):
the job that AI can do. And andI'm I'm not saying that it's
junior or, you know, what whatlevel they are. I think a lot of
people have phoned in theirjobs. Let's be really clear. You
know?
And and especially with cyber,you could hide. You could you
could have maybe done some goodstuff earlier in your career.
That that's the thing that I'vemade the mistake of, and I'm I'm
sure you've done that too in thebeginning is you see these big

(31:45):
logos, and you're like, woah.You work for all these great
companies. You're hired.
You're like, woah. You're youdon't actually do anything. So,
you know, those people are outdefinitely out of a job right
now because anything that theymight have like, oh, well, that
guy's kinda useless, but atleast he knows about x. Now, you
know, x being like some ancienttechnology or whatever. Now you

(32:05):
can just go to AI and say, hey.
How do you do this? Okay. Wedon't need that guy anymore. But
then also, know, I think with AIand with with people looking,
it's just been, companies areleveraging AI for a lot of those
more junior positions, but,there is a play for people still
looking for a job. So, I mean,you're working with AI, and I'm

(32:26):
I'm really proud that it's takenus this long to even say AI
since everyone is talking aboutit constantly and putting it out
there.
So what does AI mean when whenwhen you say AI, what does that
mean to you?

Yeah. Well, I'll say I I wanna bring it
obviously down to agile blue.What we do with our AI is it's
able to autonomouslyinvestigate, make a decision,
and respond. And in cyber, wethink both speed and accuracy
stop cyber attacks or at leastmitigates that that risk and
damage. Right?
So if we can use AI to get outahead of it, understand

(33:03):
everything, make a decision.Even if we're bringing in a
human then at the end, we'removing so much faster. So we've
automated 90% on level two ofwhat is what an what an analyst
does. And here's the the thehuge part. About 47% more
efficient when responding to acyber attack.
So that definitely means faster.98% accuracy. So is that reduced

(33:27):
jobs at Agile Blue? No. We justare those folks are now working
on more complex challenges, andwe're bringing in more engineers
to create more AI that doesthat.
So to me, AI, it just means andI I am not one of these people
who thinks AI is gonna killjobs. I just think people are
gonna need to how to understandhow to use AI to do their job.

(33:48):
And that's not a bad thingbecause if they can make us
better, we could work more. Youknow, there's a paradox called
Javan Javan's paradox. And thisguy did said this back in the
eighteen hundreds.
Every time technology wascreated over the years, whether
it was the railroad or theprinting press and obviously the
Internet and computers and nowAI, people are like, oh, it's

(34:08):
gonna decimate this. It's gonnakill jobs. No. It created more
because now we have morecompanies doing things, whether
it's creating AI, supporting AI,building tools for AI, it's
gonna create more. Will itreduce old stuff?
Yeah, potentially, but peoplewill grow their careers, thus
hopefully making more money aswell. If AI makes us seriously

(34:30):
more efficient, that's bettermargins. That obviously, if you
understand financials, makes youa more profitable company. A way
to invest more is to thenobviously hire and grow your
business. So, I do think thatI'm a big believer in the
Javan's paradox.
If you don't know what it is,look it up if you're listening
to this. But I do believe itapplies to AI, and that's what
makes me extraordinarily bullishon AI. And both my daughters who

(34:53):
are getting through college,they're looking at their
careers, and one of them is aninvestment banker and in her
internship, which is she's inher final year. She'll be she's
into her internship. They're notreplacing investment bankers
with AI.
They're not using it. So nowinstead of leaving the office at
midnight, maybe they leave at10PM and everybody has a little

(35:13):
bit of a life outside of it.

Lou Rabon (35:15):
Yeah. Big time. I actually started investment
banking, not as the banker, butas the IT guy, supporting the
trading floor. That's a storyfor another time. But, yeah,
those are can be really brutalhours.
So I love what you're sayingabout, the AI augmentation. It's
a tool, you know? And to yourpoint, yeah, the people that had

(35:37):
horses were terrified of thecar. Has the world crashed and
burned since cars werereinvented? I mean, in some
people might say, yes, butthat's a whole another from a
from a, you know, petrol, oils,you know, kind of thing.
But, literally, AI is is really,a force multiplier. And it's

(35:57):
funny because I just postedsomething on LinkedIn about
this. I'll I'll send you thepost. It it's basically about
Microsoft Research did, a study,and they said, you know, things
that people like tech and stuffwill be heavily affected by it,
but that doesn't mean those jobsare going away. To your point,
you just have to pivot and learnhow to use the tools and and

(36:18):
then you're going to be moreproductive.
Then, yeah, absolutely. It's notnecessarily something that
you'll lose your job, but you'renot going to lose your you're
not going to have a job if youdon't know how to use AI,
essentially. That is yeah. Acertainty. So yes.
And it's great. I I'm I'm reallyhappy that we didn't start with

(36:39):
AI. There's a lot of people, alot of, you know, consternation
about AI. There's a lot of youknow, it's just like NFCs and
and and or NFTs and and thingsout there. When Bitcoin and, you
know, crypto came out.
Everyone became a crypto expertat one point. And now a
everyone's an AI. I was at a ata TA conference. I I forgot what

(37:00):
it was like. Channel partners inVegas or something, like, two
years ago.
And no joke, this guy handed mea a card about being an AI
expert, whatever it was. Ilooked him up later. It was like
real estate, you know, waitingtables, AI expert. I was like,
because he could do that at thetime, you know, but now,

(37:21):
hopefully, we're gonna get pastthis hype cycle of AI, and and
this is the real, you know, thestraight dope about AI. It's a
tool.
We're we're gonna use it, andyour agile blue is using it to
great effect.

Yeah. It's you're you it is a tool. Now I
think it's extraordinarilypowerful tool, one that we've
maybe never seen. But if youthink that it's just gonna be I
really don't believe it's all AIjust running everything all day
long. Now, if we get there,maybe it's way down the road and
maybe I'm dead by then and andElon Musk robots are are are
ruling the world.
I don't care. I won't be around,I guess. But right now, it is a

(37:55):
force multiplier. It's doing themundane work that we don't want
to do anyways. And now asprofessionals, we can focus on
more challenging tasks and letthe AI do the stuff that we
kinda don't wanna do anyway.
Right? So I think that's wherewe're seeing huge gains.

Lou Rabon (38:10):
Big time. So let's pivot to to personal stuff. You
know, like, who is Tony? Whatgot you here? I I know certain,
you know, biographicalinformation about you.
You're in Cleveland, Ohio.Somebody I don't wanna say
there's a not nice way todescribe Cleveland. Right? The
the mistake by the lake orsomething. I always think of

(38:31):
that, but then I always alwaysthink of Toy Story and the
department store.
Right? What's the name of thatplace?

Hippee's Christmas story you're talking
about?

Lou Rabon (38:41):
I'm Christmas story, not Toy Story. A Christmas
story. Yeah. And where he's, youknow, he's in front of the the
windows looking at all thisstuff and that's the place
downtown Cleveland, right?

Right. Yeah. Absolutely that and then the
house is here. It was all filmedhere. So here's what's funny.
My first company was acquiredback in 2008 and was acquired by
a company in Boston. And thesewere all, you know, you know,
harbor guys, blah blah blah. Andthe guy goes to me, this is no
BS, said to me, oh, clearly.Yeah. That that's where the the
lake is on fire.
I go, well, first of all, it wasa river that caught fire. Second

(39:16):
of all, it was 1971. I wasn'teven born yet. I was born in
'74. I wasn't even born yet.
And by the way, they put it out,like, immediately. Like, it's
not just raging. So, you know,you get these these these
monikers of things and today,you're kinda seeing it with
other places in The UnitedStates. You know, people think
California. You just walkeverywhere and it's just misery
and homelessness and drugs.

(39:37):
Like, you know, I'm just beinghonest. Like, it's not.
California's gorgeous andbeautiful. Now, obviously, the
fires really affected the powerstage in those areas, which is
just awful. California isprobably the most one of the
most beautiful thing places I'veever been, right, all over
California.
But you get these things in yourhead and people just go with it.
Right? So, yeah, born and raisedin Cleveland. I did work for for

(39:57):
Apple, in in Chicago andCalifornia. So, but came back to
start my first company, which,which was great and haven't left
since.

Lou Rabon (40:06):
That's great. Yeah. It's it's funny. The I think
what's happening today too, it'sinteresting when people have
these ideas of what the wayplaces are. Like, New Yorkers
are all rude.
You know, southern southernersonly like, you know, cowboys or
whatever the weird, like, youknow, generalization is. It's

(40:27):
like more and more people andespecially, you know, we're all
getting polarized. Right? So Ijust hope that that's what I
love about, you know, this job.Both of us were traveling
constantly, seeing people allover the country.
I I love you know, that's onething I love about America. We
you read the news, and you'relike, oh my god. What the hell
is happening? But you you you goaround, and people are just good

(40:49):
people. Every place has its, youknow, pros and cons, and it's,
you know, interesting parts andthings like that.
And and I think, yeah, it'sdangerous to just generalize or,
you know, take one or twothings. It figures a guy from
the Northeast, which I'moriginally from, would would
give you, you know, grief aboutCleveland. But let's talk more
about, you know, your past. Youyou work for Apple. I've I've

(41:11):
got things here.
Like, you've you've definitelyhad a a really interesting
career doing a lot ofinvestment, a lot of leadership,
you know, CRO, president and CROat at at different types of
companies. You know, what you'reyou're bringing like kind of a
life's work here to AgileBlue.What what made you wanna start

(41:32):
AgileBlue?

You know, my business partner and I and
cofounder when we startedAgileBlue, we looked and saw a
huge hole in the market. Heidentified this. I was done with
my last company. He and I haveknown each other for twenty
years, got together. He's like,I'm thinking of this, security
operations, autonomous, blahblah blah.
There's really no huge player inthe small to mid market. We
really should think about that.And I went back to my house,

(41:54):
spent about a month researchingit, and it it was. He identified
this gap and and we started thiscompany together in 2019. We we
went to market in 2020 but thethe the point's this, he
identified a gap and I think anybusiness owner or anybody
looking to create a business orgrow their business, man, if you
can identify that need, ifthere's that product market fit

(42:17):
or just I see this this gapright here.
Take it. It's like football.Right? And that running back
sees that gap, it hits it. Goon.
Hopefully, it's an Ohio Staterunning back, by the way.

Lou Rabon (42:28):
Yeah. No. For sure. It's interesting about the gap
too. Right?
Because I think business owners,you know, we see the gap. We say
we start we start the company.We start with complete
enthusiasm. I I relate it tochildbirth. You know, if if
every woman told other women,you know, how difficult
childbirth is, like, bearing achild, giving birth, there'd be

(42:50):
no humans left.
And and I think it's the samefor, you know, business owners,
entrepreneurs. We're like, yeah.There's a gap, and we're gonna
start that company. If someonetells you the truth, like, do
you understand how much pain andsuffering? I think you you
mentioned Musk before.
I think he was coined forsaying, you know, being an
entrepreneur is like eatingglass and staring into the
abyss. You know, prettyaccurate. So, yeah, I it's it's

(43:15):
good that you identified the gapand you you went for it even
despite, you know, the the pain.You gotta get through the pain.
Right?
And you've been around for fiveyears, and it's going strong
now. I mean, you're you'redefinitely gaining traction in
the channel. Anyone I speak to,you know, it's like MDR. Have
you heard of Agile Blue? Haveyou worked with those guys?
Definitely a good reputation, soyou're doing something right.

Yeah. I think we're just treating people the
right way. Right? We got a greatproduct that helps too. And and
I think we always have ourcustomers and our partners out
ahead of us.
So I think that's what's what'skeeping it grounded. And by the
way, the channel is a toughplace. If you mess up, it's hard
to recover. If you just do theright thing, even when things go
bad, like, all in tech. Techtech breaks down once in a

(44:00):
while.
Right? There's a bug. Long asyou recover and you know how to
treat people who need thatsupport and you get through it,
it's easy to keep yourreputation going. If not, it's
not. Right?
And and that might never comeback.

Lou Rabon (44:14):
Yeah. It's it's definitely it's a small war
world in tech, smaller world incybersecurity, and an even
smaller, tighter world in thechannel. So I think you're
you're spot on. Kind of finaltwo questions. One is, do you
have a personal story thatdemonstrates where cybersecurity
might have had kind of an impacton your life?

Not necessarily a business one, but I'll give
you a personal one. And I'msupposed to be a cyber expert. A
few years ago, my cell phone mymy phone had my SIM card
swapped. So I was expecting alate gift because obviously, I I
stink at getting Christmas giftson time. Got a text message

(44:58):
says, your your thing yourAmazon order's delayed, and I'm
like, it's like, oh, man.
This is bad. Click on thebutton. Nothing happened. Next
morning, woke up. My phone's notmy phone anymore.
It's a zombie phone, and thatwas about a nine hour ordeal to
get life back together again.So, that's a little bit
different example but that onecrushed me personally because

(45:21):
nine hours, I'm hacked. Now, I'mthinking, do people get into my
Email and my cost? No,everything like that because I
have, you know, two factor andthis was three, four years, this
three and a half years ago now.Still had two factor was was
isolated in me.
But I'll tell you what, gettingmy life back together again with
my phone and everything, thatwas a nightmare. So I I it it
did happen to me. Yeah.

Lou Rabon (45:41):
Yeah. And it's, yeah, relevant. Luckily, nine hours is
better than nine days or nineweeks, which, you know, some
people have had. But and it'sembarrassing to your point, but
been there, done that, you know,where where there's been I I
think I was in Miami four yearsago, and it was like a some kind
of Wi Fi that was that had beenhacked. So it was a rogue Wi Fi

(46:05):
access point, and certain thingsstarted to happen that I saw,
and I caught quickly.
But still, you kinda it it givesyou a little bit of a burn
because you're like, I'm a cyberperson. How can this happen to
me? You know? And finally, youknow, what do you do outside of
work? What's your I I you'redefinitely very fit, so you're
you're keeping yourself active.

(46:26):
Well, what are your your hobbiesand activities?

I work out every day, so I'm a big workout
guy, and that's great. Kindalike a clean life type lifestyle
type of thing. But I still enjoyred wine, so I'm not gonna I'm
not gonna poo poo that. And so Iplayed college football at
Toledo. So Toledo's got a got abig season ahead of us here and
the Ohio State University.
One of my daughters there now,out for season ticket people.

(46:51):
Champions, national champions.So when it comes to fall, I'm
usually out on Saturday on atsomeone's game. So go rockets.
Go bucks.

Lou Rabon (47:00):
I I hope that we see you in, the top brackets, but I
don't know that my alma mater isgonna be doing much this year.
They we could be a surprise darkhorse, but went to FSU. So we
we've had some history, but, youknow, Ohio State is definitely
on top right now, so that'sgreat.

Absolutely. But, hey, with all this NIL,
with all these players movingHi. The same teams there, but
then you're gonna see a newgroup of three or four that are
gonna pop in and out becausethey, you know, grabbed a couple
guys from the portal. So it's ait's a it is the wild west right
now in college football, sowe'll see what happens.

Lou Rabon (47:33):
Yeah. I got mixed feeling. We don't have time. I'd
love to have anotherconversation about that, but
NIL, I got mixed feelings about,you know, what that's doing to
the sport. So so, where canpeople find you?
You know, LinkedIn, Twitter,agileblue?

Yeah. Agileblue.com, LinkedIn, Tony
Petricola, same thing with, withwith Twitter. Twitter, I don't
put any profound statements outor anything, but I will retweet
good stuff that people should bekeeping keeping their eyes on.
But LinkedIn LinkedIn seems tobe the place these days, But it
should be business related.Like, people are starting to
inter you know, interweave likepersonal things.

(48:09):
Like, I don't I don't need that,guys.

Lou Rabon (48:11):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Definitely ignoring those posts
when they go go down that road.That's why I'm not on the other
network. So thank you, TonyPietrocola.

Louie, thank you so much. I had a blast.
Thank you for having me.

Lou Rabon (48:24):
It's been really fun, and and thank you to those that
are watching and or listening.If you learned something today
or laughed, please tell someoneabout this podcast. Thanks
again, Tony. And this has beenanother exciting episode of
Channel Security Secrets. Seeyou next time.
That's a wrap for this episodeof Channel Security Secrets.

(48:44):
Thanks for tuning in. For shownotes, guest info, and more
episodes, visit us atchannelsecuritysecrets.com.
Channel Security Secrets issponsored by Cyber Defense
Group. When it comes toprotecting your business, don't
settle for reactive.
Partner with experts who buildresilience from the ground up.

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Proactive Cyber Defense - Tony Pietrocola - Channel Security Secrets - Episode #3

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Proactive Cyber Defense - Tony Pietrocola - Channel Security Secrets - Episode #3