December 5, 2023 • 40 mins
Ever wondered how some managers consistently lead their teams to achieve unprecedented success? Keith Rosen, CEO of Profit Builders, joins us to share the secret: mastering the language of coaching. You'll learn how coaching transcends traditional problem-solving, fostering new possibilities and cultivating accountability within your team. Whether you're leading a sales team or running clinical operations, this session gives you tools to aid your employees in developing critical thinking skills, enabling them to become self-reliant problem solvers.
But not all coaching is created equal. The one-size-fits-all approach is a trap that many managers fall into, leading to inefficiencies and disconnection within the team. Keith helps us navigate around this pitfall, discussing the importance of understanding each individual’s unique coaching style, motivation, and accountability methods. Moreover, we delve into the role of confidence in leadership and its direct correlation to sales performance. If you've ever been in a sales slump, this information is a game-changer that will help you intentionally cultivate confidence.
Through this conversation, we hope to have provided insights that will guide you in transforming your leadership style and, ultimately, your team's performance. Join us on the CHAPcast for more empowering conversations like this.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennifer (00:09):
Hi there, I'm Jennifer Kennedy, the lead for Quality
at CHAP, and welcome to thismonth's CHAPcast.
I'm here with Keith Rosen, theCEO of Profit Builders, named
one of the best leadershipcoaching organizations worldwide
.
Since 1989, keith has coachedover 3 million managers and
(00:30):
salespeople on six continents inover 75 countries.
He's the author of Own your DayCoaching Sales People into
Sales Champions, the number onebest-selling sales management
coaching book on Amazon, andSales Leadership, which was
named Amazon's 2018 SalesLeadership Book of the Year.
(00:52):
He was also named one of themost influential coaches by Inc
Magazine and Fast Company.
Keith, it's a pleasure to haveyou on our CHAPcast today.
Thanks for joining us.
Oh, thank you for having me.
Also joining the podcast is mycolleague and compadre, cassie
(01:14):
Ellison.
She's CHAP's VP for growthconsulting.
Hi Chapp, hi Cassie.
Welcome to CHAPcast.
Is there anything else youwould like our listeners to know
about what you do?
Keith (01:26):
at CHAP.
Hi, thank you so much forhaving me today.
I am just so excited to be hereas the vice president of growth
consulting.
I will say that I have readKeith's books, I have followed
his coaching advice and I justthink there's so much value in
the conversation we're going tohave today.
It's going to really resonatewith the challenges of sales
leadership and coaching.
(01:46):
So thank you for having me.
Jennifer (01:48):
Well, I'm so glad you're here from CHAP with that
representing that arm.
I this is not my swimming pool,I am a longtime clinician.
I have my nurse sweatshirt ontoday, so I know the clinical
operations side of the business.
But I do understand that thesales piece which is part of the
(02:12):
operations.
I understand the importance ofthat.
We're setting the tone,essentially the first contact
many times for representing thecompany.
So that's really important andI think you know, we know that
it's really changing anuncertain landscape and
(02:33):
healthcare today.
We know that sales leaders arereally busy.
But, keith, I guess my questionto you is, with all that sort
of uncertainty and change andchaos that is happening in the
healthcare continuum, whathappens to coaching in that
to-do list for a sales managerrather than go out sell, sell,
(02:57):
sell?
I would think the leadershippiece of that, which is coaching
and mentorship, really is ahuge piece to developing that
sales team in order to be thatwonderful first representation
to outside of the company.
Kassi (03:17):
Especially now.
What I find and it seems to bea global conundrum is that I
always find it very interestingthat at the end of every month
or the end of every quarterthat's when everyone's
scrambling to close deals andmanagers say, keith, I don't
have time to coach.
And when I hear that, my firstvisceral reaction is you don't
(03:37):
know what coaching is.
So when leaders today whichthey're extremely busy, ceo
confidence and sales managementconfidence is at an all-time low
, 76 to 84% of all issues are aresult of faulty communication.
(03:58):
Because of this, managers areactually losing one full day
each week as a result of faultycommunication, which financially
results in about $12,000 of acost per each member on their
team.
So there's all this uncertaintyand change on top of the fact
(04:22):
that managers and leaders havenever been trained, mostly had a
coach.
Forget about coaching in aremote or a hybrid world.
So when managers say we're toobusy to coach, they think
coaching is something you do.
No, it's who you are and it'show you show up.
(04:43):
I don't change the way I showup every day.
It's who I am.
So when managers say I'm toobusy to coach, it's like saying,
well, I'm too busy to breathe,because coaching is simply a
language.
Look at sales.
Look at your best salespeople.
They're probably the strongestcommunicators, just like your
(05:04):
leaders they're probably yourbest.
Leaders are probably thestrongest communicators.
Down to why leaders are notengaging with coaching, it's
because they don't have thelanguage of leadership.
So what I find is when managerstell me oh, keith, we want our
(05:28):
people to coach, 70% of the timeno, coaching is something you
do because it's simply alanguage.
So, just like if we're learningSpanish or Italian or Uruguay
or any language, managers andsalespeople need to learn the
language of coaching becausethat's what people need today.
(05:51):
And three years ago to today,the landscape of course of
selling has changed.
As a matter of fact this is ascary statistic 76% of all
companies since the pandemichave changed the way they buy.
So Kierman has changed.
Number of decision makers havechanged, factors they use to
(06:13):
make decisions have changed, butonly 17% of companies change
the way they sell.
That's a major disparity rightthere, because if you're still
managing coaching and sellingthe way you were pre-pandemic,
you already set up the failure.
The rules are different.
I just share it.
(06:34):
Some statistics which we neverdealt with before.
Attrition is at an all-timehigh.
Interestingly, in certainindustries it's even higher.
So when it comes to managerstelling me they don't have time
to coach, it's because theydon't understand that coaching
is just simply the way you comeacross.
Jennifer (06:58):
So, while you're talking here, I hear you about
attrition, I hear you about theneed to do that, but I'm really
interested in generationaldifferences, how the boomers
respond, communication whattheir needs are to, all the way
up to our newest generation, ourzeers.
(07:20):
When you look particularly atmillennials, they need that.
When you read any kind ofliterature out there, that's
really.
It's not just money.
They want to be part of thefabric of the organization.
For many different reasons, fordiversity reasons, but one of
(07:41):
the big things the standouts isthat they want to be mentors,
they want to be coached.
It's an expectation for them ofthat generation.
So what you're saying, I feelaligns yes, things have changed,
but it's changing withgenerational needs.
Would you have anything to sayabout that?
(08:03):
Disagree, agree, tell me, I'mout of my mind, or what?
No?
Kassi (08:07):
no, no, I would never say that unless we were offline.
Jennifer, there you go.
You brought up two reallyimportant facts.
I want to touch on a strategictool that every leader and every
salespeople can use today, butalso to the point of what you
were saying about generationalgaps.
If anyone goes and doesresearch online, money is never
(08:32):
the number one anymore.
Out of the top five, money'slike number four, maybe five.
What people want today is theywanna be connected, they wanna
be part of something.
They wanna be able tocontribute, they wanna have a
cause, they wanna have a passion, they wanna know they're making
an impact.
That's what people want today.
(08:53):
So then, how do managers coachto that when they're sure used
to running around and saying youknow your target right, you
know your target right, you knowhow much you have to close
right.
That doesn't do anything butjust annoy your direct reports.
It's not helping them grow.
So what's a way to help peoplegrow, regardless of generational
(09:18):
gaps?
The one thing about coaching isthat it's agnostic.
Well, at least my approach is,so if someone approaches me, I'm
gonna share what I call the oneminute coaching strategy.
As a matter of fact, I canprobably do it in 30 seconds, so
let's put our timer on.
Someone comes to you lookingfor help.
(09:39):
You have two choices you couldbe the chief problem solver, you
give them the answer, or youcan ask a question, and the
question is very simple.
Hey, jennifer, thanks forcoming to me.
I really appreciate that.
However, you're much closer tothis situation than I am and I
(10:01):
trust you and I trust yourjudgment.
So what's your opinion on how tomove forward and achieve the
results you want?
Now?
I'm from New York, I talkpretty fast and that was under
30 seconds.
You can use that strategy withanyone because, think about it,
(10:23):
we're acknowledging the fact.
Yes, I will share my idea.
Number two you're acknowledgingthe fact that they're closer to
the situation than you are.
You're also letting them knowthat I trust you, I trust your
judgment.
What do you think that's goingto do to their confidence and
also the relationship they'regonna have with their manager?
(10:44):
And since we're talking aboutleadership and sales being a
precise language, notice thefinal question I asked.
I asked what's your opinion onhow to achieve this?
I don't ask what result?
How are you gonna achieve thisresult?
I don't ask what's yourstrategy.
I don't ask what's yoursolution or answer, because
(11:08):
strategies, answers andsolutions can be right or wrong.
Opinions are never right orwrong and everyone has one.
So no one can come to you andsay, well, I don't know, you
don't know your own opinion.
So it provides the opportunityfor the coach to hear what the
(11:29):
coach is sharing and create thatcoaching moment for that.
Jennifer (11:35):
I love that.
Cassie, I know that you'reworking in our growth solutions
section of CHAP and it sounds tome, given what Keith has said,
you're not or we are, as CHAP,not being prescriptive about
what we're doing, but soundslike there's wonderful coaching
(11:55):
opportunity for our customerswho are interested in growth
solutions.
What are your thoughts on that?
Keith (12:03):
Absolutely, I think.
Kind of going back to salesleaders being extremely busy,
that is 100% true, I think, inhealthcare in general.
Let me back up I was inhealthcare sales for 15 years
before coming to CHAP and invarious sales leader roles and
as a sales representative myself.
There's just been changes withthe high costs of staffing these
(12:28):
days, in the samereimbursements, you're seeing
that organizations are startingto invest less in sales
leadership, meaning salesleaders have sometimes even
double the direct reports thanthey did previously.
And so it is a challenge beingextremely busy to keep up with
the administrative side ofthings, the strategic planning
(12:49):
side of things, but, mostimportantly, your people.
Without your people, you don'thave anything, and so that's the
thing that we coach to.
A lot is how can we reallymanage our week with intention?
So not letting your week runyou, but you running your week
and knowing that in order to win, I mean you have to connect
(13:10):
with your team.
You have to get out there inthe field and have those
coaching opportunities and buildthat trust with your team.
So when they do need coaching,they'll come to you because they
trust you.
They trust that they can cometo their leader and work through
things as they occur.
So I do see that we're workingwith an organization right now
(13:32):
that they're getting creative onhow they can layer in more
sales leadership and startingwith a level one of peer
mentorship.
So I think really gettingcreative on having the adequate
number of people to do effectivecoaching is key for winning in
sales today.
(13:53):
I do wanna comment on chiefproblem solver.
When you mentioned that, keith,reading your book years ago as
an early leader myself, I willadmit I was a chief problem
solver.
If you had a problem I had theanswer and I was so excited to
give the answer.
But what I found was that Ikinda created a co-dependency
(14:14):
problem.
Right, my phone was ringing alot because everybody needed
help to solve the variousproblems about their day.
So, adopting the coaching thatin your book the 67th second
coaching and really having thoseconversations with your team, I
just saw such a difference andit's the right thing to do.
(14:36):
It's to grow leaders, it's togrow your team professionally
and how to problem solve and getthem confident in their selves
to be able to feel good aboutmaking decisions, as they have
different things that occurthroughout their day.
So we see this a lot with thegrowth solutions and we do a lot
(14:57):
of sales leadership coachingand training and how to
effectively manage your week tobe able to manage all parts of
sales leadership.
Kassi (15:08):
Cassie, that was a really good point you brought up and
I'd like to expand on that,because being a chief problem
solver truly is a globalconundrum.
There's not a manager I knowout there who, when someone
approaches them, the visceralreaction is to solve the problem
.
Managers are like heat seekingmissiles they love looking for
(15:29):
problems and they love solvingproblems.
As a matter of fact, I've seencountless job descriptions that
actually say good problem solver, but it doesn't say good coach.
Well, wait a second, who'sdoing the work when you're
coaching?
If the manager is doing all thework, that's not coaching.
Coaching is about leading withquestions, not leading with
(15:53):
answers, and I think we need totake a moment here, and even the
playing field, about what asimple definition of coaching
even is, because if you gothroughout an organization, I
can tell you right now there isno commonality in a definition
of what coaching is.
So, rather than share a longacademic definition, here's the
(16:14):
definition of coaching it's theart and language of creating new
possibilities.
So now take that definition andfor every manager, every people
, leader, think about theconversations you're having.
If you're having redundantconversations, well, you're
(16:37):
certainly not creating a newpossibility.
If you leave that conversationwith a new possibility, new
ideas, new approaches thatyou've collaborated on with your
coachee.
That's a good sign that you'redoing some really good coaching.
And a couple of other points toreally nail down.
(16:59):
The cost of being a chiefproblem solver is that, even
though managers are coming froma good place, consider how the
coachee is dealing.
Now, don't get me wrong.
Some of your people are gonnabe really happy.
This is great.
I go to my manager.
They give me the answer, andthe best part about it is, if
the answer doesn't work, it'stheir fault.
(17:20):
We actually rob people of thevery accountability we're
looking to build.
It's insane.
So consider this every time yougive an answer.
While there are some people thatwant that from their manager,
there are other people thattruly want to be coached and
they understand that coachee isgoing to help them develop.
(17:44):
And when a manager gives theman answer, what they don't see
or what they don't hear is thatcoachee thinking well, gee, my
manager didn't even, they didn'teven ask my opinion.
I guess they don't trust me.
I guess they don't think I cando my job.
(18:06):
Now you tell me.
What's that going to do tosomeone's confidence?
It's gonna absolutely destroyit.
And if that's not enough of acost for those managers that see
themselves adopting moreemployees on their team.
Remember this one thing If it'sone case for coaching, it's
(18:34):
this you can't scale dependency.
You can't scale it.
Jennifer (18:41):
You know, keith, I'm listening to all this and I'm
like, yeah, this is totallyapplicable to the other, you
know, to the operations of theorganization, clinical.
All of that because I thinkthere is failure to coach
clinicians as well.
You know directors, managers,on sort of that side of the
(19:03):
house of the total operations aswell.
You know, in my 38 years as anurse, lately it seems to me
like there seems to be lack ofcritical thinking on the
clinician side.
Right, but you know what, maybeit's there and it's not being
(19:24):
coached out, maybe.
Maybe I'm not saying that's thecase for everything.
And you know, on the clinicalside you have to sometimes say
the regs say this, this is whatwe have to do, but I think
there's more room to helpclinicians and folks that are
involved in that piece to drawout what they know is to help
(19:48):
them grow.
And I think, exactly, there's alot of problem solving
happening on that side of thefence in an organization as well
.
And we have to, as youmentioned, you have to make time
for it or we're not gonna keepthose millennials, the Gen Zers,
(20:09):
the, whatever the nextgeneration is gonna be called
after that, we're not gonna keepthem engaged and keep them
happy in an organization ifmanagers now and moving forward
don't develop that skill?
Kassi (20:25):
Absolutely, as a matter of fact.
Again, it's one thing to chatabout these things that truly
will make a difference in theimpact and performance of people
.
At the same time, though, I'veseen some statistics where what
was it Recently just saw onethat was really scary Only one
(20:50):
in five employees say theyactually see a future at their
organization.
Jennifer (20:56):
Wow, that's pretty low .
That's scary.
Kassi (20:59):
So, to me, companies, they throw more tools.
They maybe throw moreincentives.
That's not the answer.
What people really, really,really want is to help grow, but
not only the company, butsupport their customers.
And I know this might hitpeople I don't know, I'm gonna
(21:21):
say maybe in a different way butthe dominant strategy for sales
and for leadership is care.
That's what people want today.
We have never been in asituation where we have so much
exposure into people's livesthan we do now.
(21:42):
After all, I'm in my office.
You guys are in your office,you're home.
When I'm speaking to my clients, when I'm doing a video call,
I'm in my client's home, whetherit's in their if they have a
home office or in their kitchenor wherever they're conducting
the meeting.
But I'm in their home, I'm intheir office.
(22:04):
That's such an opportunity toconnect with people at a deeper
level and change thoseconversations not just from a
business conversation but to apersonal conversation.
Because consider this for thosepeople and there are many, many
that are still struggling outthere so are your clients.
Jennifer (22:27):
They're people too, will you say struggling man.
It is a competitive landscapeout there and I wouldn't want to
be a salesperson going outthere to get your foot in the
door have those conversations.
How do you keep those folksthat are out there every day,
(22:50):
knocking on doors, trying tohave conversations, motivated,
confident, etc.
How does one do that?
Kassi (22:59):
One thing I find and I don't know if I should have
taught my kids this when theywere very younger, but I said
the one word you really, reallywant to get comfortable with for
the rest of your life is no.
So over the years they use thatagainst me.
I'll say no, and of course theygive them a mom.
Then mom says no, and of courseI'm the softy, so then of
(23:21):
course I'll say yes.
When it comes to the strugglesthat salespeople are going out
there and so much pressure, howdo they mean their focus?
How do they keep theirconfidence?
There's several things.
Number one and this is more ofa self-assessment for everyone
(23:41):
is do you have a personal vision?
Do you have your core valueslaid out?
Do you know what your specificgoals are?
Do you know what your intrinsicmotivation is?
When we have our core vision infront, that becomes our North
(24:05):
Star, that becomes our guidinglight.
The one thing and this isreally the responsibility of the
manager is that there is askill that I teach called
enrollment.
I want you to consider if, invision, in my left hand I'm
holding the companies and theindividual contributors,
(24:27):
business objectives, in theright hand I'm holding their
personal goals.
Imagine if you're able to aligneach person's personal goals
with their business objectives.
Now there's alignment.
Now that individual is thinking, oh well, if I achieve this in
(24:48):
my job, I'll achieve thispersonally.
Most managers don't connect itbecause enrollment is a learned
skill.
Part of what I see with whatgreat managers are doing, it's
not just creating a visionstatement for the company and
putting it on a wall.
That was designed by marketing.
(25:10):
Of course, no offense tomarketing.
They do wonderful work.
Except if we want people totruly own something, it doesn't
matter if someone else createsit.
What we create, we own.
What we create we act on.
If someone is creating theirown vision, identifying their
(25:31):
core values, identifying whattheir goals are, that keeps them
honest.
It keeps them in that same lane.
When we're talking about a salesslum, how do you keep people
engaged and confident?
Well, does the manager have anyidea what motivates each
(25:51):
individual on their team?
I will go so far and pleasefeel free to anyone to challenge
me on this, but the majority ofmanagers have no clue what
their people want, what they'remotivated by, how they're like
to be held accountable, how theylike to be inspired.
They don't know that.
(26:12):
So what do they do.
They make assumptions.
So one of the leading cause oflost sales, strained
relationships, turnover isassumptions, because either
we're assuming or we'reassessing.
(26:32):
And since we're talking aboutsome traps that managers fall
into, one of the greatest trapsI see is they manage or coach in
their own image.
So, for example, if I'm nottaking the time to uncover how
you like to be coached,motivated, held accountable,
what am I gonna do?
Well, I'm gonna think well, gee, this is how I like to be
(26:53):
motivated, inspired and heldaccountable, so I'll assume
that's how you like to bemotivated and held accountable
as well.
And then we wonder why peopleare leaving, or even managers
saying to me gee, you know, Ilike to be managed in a very
direct way, but when I do it tomy team, some of them have cried
(27:13):
.
That should be a good sign, andthis is the opportunity to have
conversations and sit down andtalk about what motivates you,
what gets you out of bed everyday, what inspires you, what are
the things you'd like to domore of at home?
How good are you with turningoff work at the end of the day?
(27:33):
How good are you at managingyour self-care?
How well are you taking care ofyourself.
How do you stay focused on yourpriorities while balancing the
performance you have at work?
See, these are the questions nomanager is asking because
(27:53):
they're much more personal.
Well, keep those personalquestions.
Jennifer (27:56):
Yes, they are, because the dominant strategy today is
care Everyone is going throughsomething I love that it's, you
know, from a nursing standpoint,that's me creating an
individualized plan of care formy patient and Cassie.
I'm thinking you know, part ofwhat we're doing in Gross
(28:18):
Solution is helping thecustomers who engage with us to
really look at that landscape oftheir staff and figure those
things out.
Is that fair to say?
Keith (28:29):
Absolutely, I will say.
A lot of organizations that wetalk to, we have discovery calls
and we learn how you know theylead their sales team and kind
of what is their cadence orrecipe for success.
And oftentimes we hear, well,we assign a quota and a
territory and they go and it'sabout get out there, make the
(28:50):
sales calls, you know what yournumber is and that's it.
So a large part of what we'reseeing is, you know, all those
things that Keith just talked tocan be worked into a weekly
cadence.
And again, I go back to justbeing very intentional in
coaching your people andconnecting with your people for
that dominance of care and sothat definitely is something
(29:14):
that we talk to a lot oforganizations about is how do
you balance everything andensure that you're investing in
your team?
And I will say, keith, youmentioned the enroll step.
That is, so many leaders makeassumptions about their sales
team and what motivates them,and when you I challenge them to
have an enroll conversation,they always walk away learning
(29:38):
something new about their personand you will find you've made
assumptions about these folksthat just are not correct.
And so such a such a key stepin engaging someone into owning
their goal and their plan to winin their territory.
So such an important part ofthis step.
Kassi (29:58):
I'm a big fan.
It's interesting becausemanagers are really good at
telling people what they need todo, but they're not very good
at sharing why.
And the most important part ofthat conversation, which is
what's in it for you with themWIFM, right, what's in it for me
?
So the point is, if a managershares a new initiative or
(30:19):
something you have to do, theycould play the power card and
their people will say, well, Iguess I want to keep my job, so
I'll.
I guess I'll do this thing.
But keep in mind something Ifyou truly want to create
engagement and alignment,remember something, and this
applies to every conversationwhen your intentions are not
(30:39):
clear, people default to fear.
So if I'm a manager and I sendyou an email and in the email
subsequent it says call me ASAP,what's your first reaction?
It's not.
My boss wants to tell me howamazing I am.
It's going to be uh-oh.
(31:01):
What did I do wrong?
Did I lose a sale?
Am I getting terminated?
Am I being put on a pit?
We never go to the positive.
That's why it's so critical foreveryone to always be clear
that when you're sharing ortrying to create buy-in or
enrollment or change, you mustshare what's in it for them and
(31:22):
what the intent is.
You also mentioned I don't wantto step over anything here you
mentioned about criticalthinking.
Critical thinking when peoplehear that they think it's all
about helping them formulatedecisions in their mind, become
a more either divergent orconvergent thinker.
But what they, what peopledon't realize, is that critical
(31:46):
thinking isn't only working fromyour head, it's also listening
to your heart and to me, that'swhere the best leaders are
coaching from.
It's from their heart, not fromtheir head.
And if there's one thing I alsodon't want to step over is
confidence, because this is oneof the things that I see
everyone is struggling today andI've been asked so many times.
(32:09):
Keith, you know I am my peoplefalling into a sales slump.
So when, two minutes, I'm goingto share how to eliminate a
sales slump.
If you look at how peopledevelop their confidence, most
people will say well, myconfidence goes up when I
achieve something.
So if we take a sales person,for example, well, here's my
(32:31):
confidence.
I earn a new client.
What happens to my confidence?
It goes up, my confidence rises, I'm feeling good, I'm feeling
productive, I'm feelingconnected to what I'm doing and
to my people.
Wow, what happens?
I sell another deal, uh-oh, Ijust lost a big account.
What do you think happens to myconfidence?
(32:51):
It drops.
And then my confidence drops.
I'm not assures myself.
Well, then I have anotherconversation and then I lose
another opportunity.
If anyone wants to know of thecause of a sales slump, it's
tied directly into confidence.
And let me be exceedingly clear.
You have been lied to yourentire life.
(33:14):
You have been told thatconfidence is a result of
results.
Well, what if I was to tell youthat confidence has no
relationship to results anymore?
One of my favorite quotes is bya philosopher, haifetz, a
Persian philosopher, and thequote is I am happy before I
(33:36):
have a reason.
If we are allowing externalfactors to dictate our internal
condition, you will always findyourself, your condition
internally, your internal power,your internal energy, being
robbed by external situations.
Oh, once I hit my quota, I'llbe happy.
(33:57):
For how long?
A day, a week, a second, andthen the counter resets to zero.
So this is the inner game.
You know we've talked aboutwhat we can do to help our
people develop, our clientsdevelop.
What about the go-be?
How can we help coach people inthe inner game?
(34:19):
Confidence is just a choice.
There is no more relationshipbetween confidence and results.
So consider this I am confidentbecause I'm confident.
I am confident because I havealready proven myself and my
(34:40):
self-worth.
That does not mean you're notgoing to still strive for
excellence.
It just means that thoseresults have no reflection on
who you are and the quality thatyou bring to others.
Jennifer (35:02):
Wow, that is such a great I don't even know how to
top that.
I think you know, I thinkthat's so applicable not only to
sales but, you know, towhatever a person does in the
organization, and I totallyagree with that.
Wow, there are so many pearlsof wisdom that I'll be taking
(35:25):
away from our conversation today, and I wanted to thank you
again, keith and Cassie, forjoining the podcast.
So, each of you.
Any final thoughts for ourlisteners out there in podcast
land.
Kassi (35:40):
Cassie, I'll turn the mic over to you first before I
share Wonderful.
Keith (35:46):
Well, I just I really hope this is helpful to our
listeners.
In talking to a lot of clients,it sounds like this is just an
ongoing challenge of reallyfinding the time to coach
effectively with our sales teamto reduce retention, increase
performance.
So I hope there's some nuggetseverybody can take away from
(36:08):
this call today, and if youhaven't read Keith Rosen's books
, I highly recommend them.
Kassi (36:15):
Jen, do you have anything you want to sign off before I
say goodbye?
Jennifer (36:19):
I, you know, like I have so many things that I'm
taking away from here.
You know, one of the thingsthat really struck me after all
these years you think you knowstuff, right Is that there's a
piece everyone in theorganization has a sales role,
really, right?
You know, I'm recruitingsomebody, I'm selling the
(36:41):
organization.
I'm out there, I'm a clinician,I'm selling the organization.
So that was a realization forme that it's not like the siloed
thing, it permeates throughoutthe organization.
Kassi (36:53):
Oh, I'm sorry, Now I have to comment on that.
So you bring up silos.
I'll be really quick.
You want to know every realsecret to breaking down
departmental silos.
Respect other people's point ofview, that's the answer.
Because if I'm in sales and Ineed to give something to a
clinician and they said theywanted it, you know immediately
(37:16):
I'm running over to marketingand saying, hey, I need you to
produce this for me.
But you know what we're notdoing?
We're not respecting them,we're not respecting their time,
we're not respecting that.
There are other things on theirplate.
So what if we turn that modelaround?
And what if we say, hey, I'dlove to redesign our
relationship of how ourdepartments work together so we
can achieve our mutual goals?
(37:36):
That's creating newpossibilities.
So I just wanted to share thatNumber one.
Number two when everyone isspeaking coaching, that's how
you develop a coaching culture.
If every department is speakingcoaching, if my direct report
is speaking coaching mysalespeople yes, they're
coaching customers.
That's the evolution.
(37:56):
If my boss is speaking coaching, we're all aligned and
connected.
That's the secret to developinga coaching culture In terms of
a couple of things that I'd liketo share, just to wrap up from
my end.
For those of you that would liketo tap into any more of my
resources, I have tons ofresources on my blog,
(38:18):
keithrosencom, and pleaseconnect with me on LinkedIn and,
of course, on Twitter.
There's a newsletter I havethat you can sign up for, where
I'm always sharing differenttools for leaders and
salespeople and, of course,things that affect our life
balance.
Right, because that's the onething that we all struggle with
is maintaining that life balance.
(38:40):
What's interesting, peoplereally don't have a time
management problem.
What they really have is apriority management problem.
So, in closing, I'd like toshare my final thought of every
company's universal philosophy,and here it is.
People create the mindset, itshapes behavior, behavior
(39:09):
defines culture, and culturedetermines success.
That is why the primaryinitiative, the primary goal of
every manager is to make theirpeople more valuable.
Jennifer (39:28):
Well, that is certainly a great way to sign
off on this very informativepodcast.
Keith, thank you so much.
I know you're a busy guy andtaking time out of your schedule
to join us has really been ahighlight for me particularly
and, cassie, I know same for you.
(39:49):
You're busy out there movinggrowth solutions forward, so
thank you for taking time out ofyour day to join the podcast as
well.
Finally, I want to thank all ofyou for taking time out of your
busy day.
I know that is sometimes reallychallenging to do, but thank
you for plugging into ourpodcast and from me and the
(40:12):
entire chat team, stay safe andwell and thanks for all you do.
Hi there, I'm Jennifer Kennedy, the lead for Quality
at CHAP, and welcome to thismonth's CHAPcast.
I'm here with Keith Rosen, theCEO of Profit Builders, named
one of the best leadershipcoaching organizations worldwide
.
Since 1989, keith has coachedover 3 million managers and
(00:30):
salespeople on six continents inover 75 countries.
He's the author of Own your DayCoaching Sales People into
Sales Champions, the number onebest-selling sales management
coaching book on Amazon, andSales Leadership, which was
named Amazon's 2018 SalesLeadership Book of the Year.
(00:52):
He was also named one of themost influential coaches by Inc
Magazine and Fast Company.
Keith, it's a pleasure to haveyou on our CHAPcast today.
Thanks for joining us.
Oh, thank you for having me.
Also joining the podcast is mycolleague and compadre, cassie
(01:14):
Ellison.
She's CHAP's VP for growthconsulting.
Hi Chapp, hi Cassie.
Welcome to CHAPcast.
Is there anything else youwould like our listeners to know
about what you do?
Keith (01:26):
at CHAP.
Hi, thank you so much forhaving me today.
I am just so excited to be hereas the vice president of growth
consulting.
I will say that I have readKeith's books, I have followed
his coaching advice and I justthink there's so much value in
the conversation we're going tohave today.
It's going to really resonatewith the challenges of sales
leadership and coaching.
(01:46):
So thank you for having me.
Jennifer (01:48):
Well, I'm so glad you're here from CHAP with that
representing that arm.
I this is not my swimming pool,I am a longtime clinician.
I have my nurse sweatshirt ontoday, so I know the clinical
operations side of the business.
But I do understand that thesales piece which is part of the
(02:12):
operations.
I understand the importance ofthat.
We're setting the tone,essentially the first contact
many times for representing thecompany.
So that's really important andI think you know, we know that
it's really changing anuncertain landscape and
(02:33):
healthcare today.
We know that sales leaders arereally busy.
But, keith, I guess my questionto you is, with all that sort
of uncertainty and change andchaos that is happening in the
healthcare continuum, whathappens to coaching in that
to-do list for a sales managerrather than go out sell, sell,
(02:57):
sell?
I would think the leadershippiece of that, which is coaching
and mentorship, really is ahuge piece to developing that
sales team in order to be thatwonderful first representation
to outside of the company.
Kassi (03:17):
Especially now.
What I find and it seems to bea global conundrum is that I
always find it very interestingthat at the end of every month
or the end of every quarterthat's when everyone's
scrambling to close deals andmanagers say, keith, I don't
have time to coach.
And when I hear that, my firstvisceral reaction is you don't
(03:37):
know what coaching is.
So when leaders today whichthey're extremely busy, ceo
confidence and sales managementconfidence is at an all-time low
, 76 to 84% of all issues are aresult of faulty communication.
(03:58):
Because of this, managers areactually losing one full day
each week as a result of faultycommunication, which financially
results in about $12,000 of acost per each member on their
team.
So there's all this uncertaintyand change on top of the fact
(04:22):
that managers and leaders havenever been trained, mostly had a
coach.
Forget about coaching in aremote or a hybrid world.
So when managers say we're toobusy to coach, they think
coaching is something you do.
No, it's who you are and it'show you show up.
(04:43):
I don't change the way I showup every day.
It's who I am.
So when managers say I'm toobusy to coach, it's like saying,
well, I'm too busy to breathe,because coaching is simply a
language.
Look at sales.
Look at your best salespeople.
They're probably the strongestcommunicators, just like your
(05:04):
leaders they're probably yourbest.
Leaders are probably thestrongest communicators.
Down to why leaders are notengaging with coaching, it's
because they don't have thelanguage of leadership.
So what I find is when managerstell me oh, keith, we want our
(05:28):
people to coach, 70% of the timeno, coaching is something you
do because it's simply alanguage.
So, just like if we're learningSpanish or Italian or Uruguay
or any language, managers andsalespeople need to learn the
language of coaching becausethat's what people need today.
(05:51):
And three years ago to today,the landscape of course of
selling has changed.
As a matter of fact this is ascary statistic 76% of all
companies since the pandemichave changed the way they buy.
So Kierman has changed.
Number of decision makers havechanged, factors they use to
(06:13):
make decisions have changed, butonly 17% of companies change
the way they sell.
That's a major disparity rightthere, because if you're still
managing coaching and sellingthe way you were pre-pandemic,
you already set up the failure.
The rules are different.
I just share it.
(06:34):
Some statistics which we neverdealt with before.
Attrition is at an all-timehigh.
Interestingly, in certainindustries it's even higher.
So when it comes to managerstelling me they don't have time
to coach, it's because theydon't understand that coaching
is just simply the way you comeacross.
Jennifer (06:58):
So, while you're talking here, I hear you about
attrition, I hear you about theneed to do that, but I'm really
interested in generationaldifferences, how the boomers
respond, communication whattheir needs are to, all the way
up to our newest generation, ourzeers.
(07:20):
When you look particularly atmillennials, they need that.
When you read any kind ofliterature out there, that's
really.
It's not just money.
They want to be part of thefabric of the organization.
For many different reasons, fordiversity reasons, but one of
(07:41):
the big things the standouts isthat they want to be mentors,
they want to be coached.
It's an expectation for them ofthat generation.
So what you're saying, I feelaligns yes, things have changed,
but it's changing withgenerational needs.
Would you have anything to sayabout that?
(08:03):
Disagree, agree, tell me, I'mout of my mind, or what?
No?
Kassi (08:07):
no, no, I would never say that unless we were offline.
Jennifer, there you go.
You brought up two reallyimportant facts.
I want to touch on a strategictool that every leader and every
salespeople can use today, butalso to the point of what you
were saying about generationalgaps.
If anyone goes and doesresearch online, money is never
(08:32):
the number one anymore.
Out of the top five, money'slike number four, maybe five.
What people want today is theywanna be connected, they wanna
be part of something.
They wanna be able tocontribute, they wanna have a
cause, they wanna have a passion, they wanna know they're making
an impact.
That's what people want today.
(08:53):
So then, how do managers coachto that when they're sure used
to running around and saying youknow your target right, you
know your target right, you knowhow much you have to close
right.
That doesn't do anything butjust annoy your direct reports.
It's not helping them grow.
So what's a way to help peoplegrow, regardless of generational
(09:18):
gaps?
The one thing about coaching isthat it's agnostic.
Well, at least my approach is,so if someone approaches me, I'm
gonna share what I call the oneminute coaching strategy.
As a matter of fact, I canprobably do it in 30 seconds, so
let's put our timer on.
Someone comes to you lookingfor help.
(09:39):
You have two choices you couldbe the chief problem solver, you
give them the answer, or youcan ask a question, and the
question is very simple.
Hey, jennifer, thanks forcoming to me.
I really appreciate that.
However, you're much closer tothis situation than I am and I
(10:01):
trust you and I trust yourjudgment.
So what's your opinion on how tomove forward and achieve the
results you want?
Now?
I'm from New York, I talkpretty fast and that was under
30 seconds.
You can use that strategy withanyone because, think about it,
(10:23):
we're acknowledging the fact.
Yes, I will share my idea.
Number two you're acknowledgingthe fact that they're closer to
the situation than you are.
You're also letting them knowthat I trust you, I trust your
judgment.
What do you think that's goingto do to their confidence and
also the relationship they'regonna have with their manager?
(10:44):
And since we're talking aboutleadership and sales being a
precise language, notice thefinal question I asked.
I asked what's your opinion onhow to achieve this?
I don't ask what result?
How are you gonna achieve thisresult?
I don't ask what's yourstrategy.
I don't ask what's yoursolution or answer, because
(11:08):
strategies, answers andsolutions can be right or wrong.
Opinions are never right orwrong and everyone has one.
So no one can come to you andsay, well, I don't know, you
don't know your own opinion.
So it provides the opportunityfor the coach to hear what the
(11:29):
coach is sharing and create thatcoaching moment for that.
Jennifer (11:35):
I love that.
Cassie, I know that you'reworking in our growth solutions
section of CHAP and it sounds tome, given what Keith has said,
you're not or we are, as CHAP,not being prescriptive about
what we're doing, but soundslike there's wonderful coaching
(11:55):
opportunity for our customerswho are interested in growth
solutions.
What are your thoughts on that?
Keith (12:03):
Absolutely, I think.
Kind of going back to salesleaders being extremely busy,
that is 100% true, I think, inhealthcare in general.
Let me back up I was inhealthcare sales for 15 years
before coming to CHAP and invarious sales leader roles and
as a sales representative myself.
There's just been changes withthe high costs of staffing these
(12:28):
days, in the samereimbursements, you're seeing
that organizations are startingto invest less in sales
leadership, meaning salesleaders have sometimes even
double the direct reports thanthey did previously.
And so it is a challenge beingextremely busy to keep up with
the administrative side ofthings, the strategic planning
(12:49):
side of things, but, mostimportantly, your people.
Without your people, you don'thave anything, and so that's the
thing that we coach to.
A lot is how can we reallymanage our week with intention?
So not letting your week runyou, but you running your week
and knowing that in order to win, I mean you have to connect
(13:10):
with your team.
You have to get out there inthe field and have those
coaching opportunities and buildthat trust with your team.
So when they do need coaching,they'll come to you because they
trust you.
They trust that they can cometo their leader and work through
things as they occur.
So I do see that we're workingwith an organization right now
(13:32):
that they're getting creative onhow they can layer in more
sales leadership and startingwith a level one of peer
mentorship.
So I think really gettingcreative on having the adequate
number of people to do effectivecoaching is key for winning in
sales today.
(13:53):
I do wanna comment on chiefproblem solver.
When you mentioned that, keith,reading your book years ago as
an early leader myself, I willadmit I was a chief problem
solver.
If you had a problem I had theanswer and I was so excited to
give the answer.
But what I found was that Ikinda created a co-dependency
(14:14):
problem.
Right, my phone was ringing alot because everybody needed
help to solve the variousproblems about their day.
So, adopting the coaching thatin your book the 67th second
coaching and really having thoseconversations with your team, I
just saw such a difference andit's the right thing to do.
(14:36):
It's to grow leaders, it's togrow your team professionally
and how to problem solve and getthem confident in their selves
to be able to feel good aboutmaking decisions, as they have
different things that occurthroughout their day.
So we see this a lot with thegrowth solutions and we do a lot
(14:57):
of sales leadership coachingand training and how to
effectively manage your week tobe able to manage all parts of
sales leadership.
Kassi (15:08):
Cassie, that was a really good point you brought up and
I'd like to expand on that,because being a chief problem
solver truly is a globalconundrum.
There's not a manager I knowout there who, when someone
approaches them, the visceralreaction is to solve the problem
.
Managers are like heat seekingmissiles they love looking for
(15:29):
problems and they love solvingproblems.
As a matter of fact, I've seencountless job descriptions that
actually say good problem solver, but it doesn't say good coach.
Well, wait a second, who'sdoing the work when you're
coaching?
If the manager is doing all thework, that's not coaching.
Coaching is about leading withquestions, not leading with
(15:53):
answers, and I think we need totake a moment here, and even the
playing field, about what asimple definition of coaching
even is, because if you gothroughout an organization, I
can tell you right now there isno commonality in a definition
of what coaching is.
So, rather than share a longacademic definition, here's the
(16:14):
definition of coaching it's theart and language of creating new
possibilities.
So now take that definition andfor every manager, every people
, leader, think about theconversations you're having.
If you're having redundantconversations, well, you're
(16:37):
certainly not creating a newpossibility.
If you leave that conversationwith a new possibility, new
ideas, new approaches thatyou've collaborated on with your
coachee.
That's a good sign that you'redoing some really good coaching.
And a couple of other points toreally nail down.
(16:59):
The cost of being a chiefproblem solver is that, even
though managers are coming froma good place, consider how the
coachee is dealing.
Now, don't get me wrong.
Some of your people are gonnabe really happy.
This is great.
I go to my manager.
They give me the answer, andthe best part about it is, if
the answer doesn't work, it'stheir fault.
(17:20):
We actually rob people of thevery accountability we're
looking to build.
It's insane.
So consider this every time yougive an answer.
While there are some people thatwant that from their manager,
there are other people thattruly want to be coached and
they understand that coachee isgoing to help them develop.
(17:44):
And when a manager gives theman answer, what they don't see
or what they don't hear is thatcoachee thinking well, gee, my
manager didn't even, they didn'teven ask my opinion.
I guess they don't trust me.
I guess they don't think I cando my job.
(18:06):
Now you tell me.
What's that going to do tosomeone's confidence?
It's gonna absolutely destroyit.
And if that's not enough of acost for those managers that see
themselves adopting moreemployees on their team.
Remember this one thing If it'sone case for coaching, it's
(18:34):
this you can't scale dependency.
You can't scale it.
Jennifer (18:41):
You know, keith, I'm listening to all this and I'm
like, yeah, this is totallyapplicable to the other, you
know, to the operations of theorganization, clinical.
All of that because I thinkthere is failure to coach
clinicians as well.
You know directors, managers,on sort of that side of the
(19:03):
house of the total operations aswell.
You know, in my 38 years as anurse, lately it seems to me
like there seems to be lack ofcritical thinking on the
clinician side.
Right, but you know what, maybeit's there and it's not being
(19:24):
coached out, maybe.
Maybe I'm not saying that's thecase for everything.
And you know, on the clinicalside you have to sometimes say
the regs say this, this is whatwe have to do, but I think
there's more room to helpclinicians and folks that are
involved in that piece to drawout what they know is to help
(19:48):
them grow.
And I think, exactly, there's alot of problem solving
happening on that side of thefence in an organization as well
.
And we have to, as youmentioned, you have to make time
for it or we're not gonna keepthose millennials, the Gen Zers,
(20:09):
the, whatever the nextgeneration is gonna be called
after that, we're not gonna keepthem engaged and keep them
happy in an organization ifmanagers now and moving forward
don't develop that skill?
Kassi (20:25):
Absolutely, as a matter of fact.
Again, it's one thing to chatabout these things that truly
will make a difference in theimpact and performance of people
.
At the same time, though, I'veseen some statistics where what
was it Recently just saw onethat was really scary Only one
(20:50):
in five employees say theyactually see a future at their
organization.
Jennifer (20:56):
Wow, that's pretty low .
That's scary.
Kassi (20:59):
So, to me, companies, they throw more tools.
They maybe throw moreincentives.
That's not the answer.
What people really, really,really want is to help grow, but
not only the company, butsupport their customers.
And I know this might hitpeople I don't know, I'm gonna
(21:21):
say maybe in a different way butthe dominant strategy for sales
and for leadership is care.
That's what people want today.
We have never been in asituation where we have so much
exposure into people's livesthan we do now.
(21:42):
After all, I'm in my office.
You guys are in your office,you're home.
When I'm speaking to my clients, when I'm doing a video call,
I'm in my client's home, whetherit's in their if they have a
home office or in their kitchenor wherever they're conducting
the meeting.
But I'm in their home, I'm intheir office.
(22:04):
That's such an opportunity toconnect with people at a deeper
level and change thoseconversations not just from a
business conversation but to apersonal conversation.
Because consider this for thosepeople and there are many, many
that are still struggling outthere so are your clients.
Jennifer (22:27):
They're people too, will you say struggling man.
It is a competitive landscapeout there and I wouldn't want to
be a salesperson going outthere to get your foot in the
door have those conversations.
How do you keep those folksthat are out there every day,
(22:50):
knocking on doors, trying tohave conversations, motivated,
confident, etc.
How does one do that?
Kassi (22:59):
One thing I find and I don't know if I should have
taught my kids this when theywere very younger, but I said
the one word you really, reallywant to get comfortable with for
the rest of your life is no.
So over the years they use thatagainst me.
I'll say no, and of course theygive them a mom.
Then mom says no, and of courseI'm the softy, so then of
(23:21):
course I'll say yes.
When it comes to the strugglesthat salespeople are going out
there and so much pressure, howdo they mean their focus?
How do they keep theirconfidence?
There's several things.
Number one and this is more ofa self-assessment for everyone
(23:41):
is do you have a personal vision?
Do you have your core valueslaid out?
Do you know what your specificgoals are?
Do you know what your intrinsicmotivation is?
When we have our core vision infront, that becomes our North
(24:05):
Star, that becomes our guidinglight.
The one thing and this isreally the responsibility of the
manager is that there is askill that I teach called
enrollment.
I want you to consider if, invision, in my left hand I'm
holding the companies and theindividual contributors,
(24:27):
business objectives, in theright hand I'm holding their
personal goals.
Imagine if you're able to aligneach person's personal goals
with their business objectives.
Now there's alignment.
Now that individual is thinking, oh well, if I achieve this in
(24:48):
my job, I'll achieve thispersonally.
Most managers don't connect itbecause enrollment is a learned
skill.
Part of what I see with whatgreat managers are doing, it's
not just creating a visionstatement for the company and
putting it on a wall.
That was designed by marketing.
(25:10):
Of course, no offense tomarketing.
They do wonderful work.
Except if we want people totruly own something, it doesn't
matter if someone else createsit.
What we create, we own.
What we create we act on.
If someone is creating theirown vision, identifying their
(25:31):
core values, identifying whattheir goals are, that keeps them
honest.
It keeps them in that same lane.
When we're talking about a salesslum, how do you keep people
engaged and confident?
Well, does the manager have anyidea what motivates each
(25:51):
individual on their team?
I will go so far and pleasefeel free to anyone to challenge
me on this, but the majority ofmanagers have no clue what
their people want, what they'remotivated by, how they're like
to be held accountable, how theylike to be inspired.
They don't know that.
(26:12):
So what do they do.
They make assumptions.
So one of the leading cause oflost sales, strained
relationships, turnover isassumptions, because either
we're assuming or we'reassessing.
(26:32):
And since we're talking aboutsome traps that managers fall
into, one of the greatest trapsI see is they manage or coach in
their own image.
So, for example, if I'm nottaking the time to uncover how
you like to be coached,motivated, held accountable,
what am I gonna do?
Well, I'm gonna think well, gee, this is how I like to be
(26:53):
motivated, inspired and heldaccountable, so I'll assume
that's how you like to bemotivated and held accountable
as well.
And then we wonder why peopleare leaving, or even managers
saying to me gee, you know, Ilike to be managed in a very
direct way, but when I do it tomy team, some of them have cried
(27:13):
.
That should be a good sign, andthis is the opportunity to have
conversations and sit down andtalk about what motivates you,
what gets you out of bed everyday, what inspires you, what are
the things you'd like to domore of at home?
How good are you with turningoff work at the end of the day?
(27:33):
How good are you at managingyour self-care?
How well are you taking care ofyourself.
How do you stay focused on yourpriorities while balancing the
performance you have at work?
See, these are the questions nomanager is asking because
(27:53):
they're much more personal.
Well, keep those personalquestions.
Jennifer (27:56):
Yes, they are, because the dominant strategy today is
care Everyone is going throughsomething I love that it's, you
know, from a nursing standpoint,that's me creating an
individualized plan of care formy patient and Cassie.
I'm thinking you know, part ofwhat we're doing in Gross
(28:18):
Solution is helping thecustomers who engage with us to
really look at that landscape oftheir staff and figure those
things out.
Is that fair to say?
Keith (28:29):
Absolutely, I will say.
A lot of organizations that wetalk to, we have discovery calls
and we learn how you know theylead their sales team and kind
of what is their cadence orrecipe for success.
And oftentimes we hear, well,we assign a quota and a
territory and they go and it'sabout get out there, make the
(28:50):
sales calls, you know what yournumber is and that's it.
So a large part of what we'reseeing is, you know, all those
things that Keith just talked tocan be worked into a weekly
cadence.
And again, I go back to justbeing very intentional in
coaching your people andconnecting with your people for
that dominance of care and sothat definitely is something
(29:14):
that we talk to a lot oforganizations about is how do
you balance everything andensure that you're investing in
your team?
And I will say, keith, youmentioned the enroll step.
That is, so many leaders makeassumptions about their sales
team and what motivates them,and when you I challenge them to
have an enroll conversation,they always walk away learning
(29:38):
something new about their personand you will find you've made
assumptions about these folksthat just are not correct.
And so such a such a key stepin engaging someone into owning
their goal and their plan to winin their territory.
So such an important part ofthis step.
Kassi (29:58):
I'm a big fan.
It's interesting becausemanagers are really good at
telling people what they need todo, but they're not very good
at sharing why.
And the most important part ofthat conversation, which is
what's in it for you with themWIFM, right, what's in it for me
?
So the point is, if a managershares a new initiative or
(30:19):
something you have to do, theycould play the power card and
their people will say, well, Iguess I want to keep my job, so
I'll.
I guess I'll do this thing.
But keep in mind something Ifyou truly want to create
engagement and alignment,remember something, and this
applies to every conversationwhen your intentions are not
(30:39):
clear, people default to fear.
So if I'm a manager and I sendyou an email and in the email
subsequent it says call me ASAP,what's your first reaction?
It's not.
My boss wants to tell me howamazing I am.
It's going to be uh-oh.
(31:01):
What did I do wrong?
Did I lose a sale?
Am I getting terminated?
Am I being put on a pit?
We never go to the positive.
That's why it's so critical foreveryone to always be clear
that when you're sharing ortrying to create buy-in or
enrollment or change, you mustshare what's in it for them and
(31:22):
what the intent is.
You also mentioned I don't wantto step over anything here you
mentioned about criticalthinking.
Critical thinking when peoplehear that they think it's all
about helping them formulatedecisions in their mind, become
a more either divergent orconvergent thinker.
But what they, what peopledon't realize, is that critical
(31:46):
thinking isn't only working fromyour head, it's also listening
to your heart and to me, that'swhere the best leaders are
coaching from.
It's from their heart, not fromtheir head.
And if there's one thing I alsodon't want to step over is
confidence, because this is oneof the things that I see
everyone is struggling today andI've been asked so many times.
(32:09):
Keith, you know I am my peoplefalling into a sales slump.
So when, two minutes, I'm goingto share how to eliminate a
sales slump.
If you look at how peopledevelop their confidence, most
people will say well, myconfidence goes up when I
achieve something.
So if we take a sales person,for example, well, here's my
(32:31):
confidence.
I earn a new client.
What happens to my confidence?
It goes up, my confidence rises, I'm feeling good, I'm feeling
productive, I'm feelingconnected to what I'm doing and
to my people.
Wow, what happens?
I sell another deal, uh-oh, Ijust lost a big account.
What do you think happens to myconfidence?
(32:51):
It drops.
And then my confidence drops.
I'm not assures myself.
Well, then I have anotherconversation and then I lose
another opportunity.
If anyone wants to know of thecause of a sales slump, it's
tied directly into confidence.
And let me be exceedingly clear.
You have been lied to yourentire life.
(33:14):
You have been told thatconfidence is a result of
results.
Well, what if I was to tell youthat confidence has no
relationship to results anymore?
One of my favorite quotes is bya philosopher, haifetz, a
Persian philosopher, and thequote is I am happy before I
(33:36):
have a reason.
If we are allowing externalfactors to dictate our internal
condition, you will always findyourself, your condition
internally, your internal power,your internal energy, being
robbed by external situations.
Oh, once I hit my quota, I'llbe happy.
(33:57):
For how long?
A day, a week, a second, andthen the counter resets to zero.
So this is the inner game.
You know we've talked aboutwhat we can do to help our
people develop, our clientsdevelop.
What about the go-be?
How can we help coach people inthe inner game?
(34:19):
Confidence is just a choice.
There is no more relationshipbetween confidence and results.
So consider this I am confidentbecause I'm confident.
I am confident because I havealready proven myself and my
(34:40):
self-worth.
That does not mean you're notgoing to still strive for
excellence.
It just means that thoseresults have no reflection on
who you are and the quality thatyou bring to others.
Jennifer (35:02):
Wow, that is such a great I don't even know how to
top that.
I think you know, I thinkthat's so applicable not only to
sales but, you know, towhatever a person does in the
organization, and I totallyagree with that.
Wow, there are so many pearlsof wisdom that I'll be taking
(35:25):
away from our conversation today, and I wanted to thank you
again, keith and Cassie, forjoining the podcast.
So, each of you.
Any final thoughts for ourlisteners out there in podcast
land.
Kassi (35:40):
Cassie, I'll turn the mic over to you first before I
share Wonderful.
Keith (35:46):
Well, I just I really hope this is helpful to our
listeners.
In talking to a lot of clients,it sounds like this is just an
ongoing challenge of reallyfinding the time to coach
effectively with our sales teamto reduce retention, increase
performance.
So I hope there's some nuggetseverybody can take away from
(36:08):
this call today, and if youhaven't read Keith Rosen's books
, I highly recommend them.
Kassi (36:15):
Jen, do you have anything you want to sign off before I
say goodbye?
Jennifer (36:19):
I, you know, like I have so many things that I'm
taking away from here.
You know, one of the thingsthat really struck me after all
these years you think you knowstuff, right Is that there's a
piece everyone in theorganization has a sales role,
really, right?
You know, I'm recruitingsomebody, I'm selling the
(36:41):
organization.
I'm out there, I'm a clinician,I'm selling the organization.
So that was a realization forme that it's not like the siloed
thing, it permeates throughoutthe organization.
Kassi (36:53):
Oh, I'm sorry, Now I have to comment on that.
So you bring up silos.
I'll be really quick.
You want to know every realsecret to breaking down
departmental silos.
Respect other people's point ofview, that's the answer.
Because if I'm in sales and Ineed to give something to a
clinician and they said theywanted it, you know immediately
(37:16):
I'm running over to marketingand saying, hey, I need you to
produce this for me.
But you know what we're notdoing?
We're not respecting them,we're not respecting their time,
we're not respecting that.
There are other things on theirplate.
So what if we turn that modelaround?
And what if we say, hey, I'dlove to redesign our
relationship of how ourdepartments work together so we
can achieve our mutual goals?
(37:36):
That's creating newpossibilities.
So I just wanted to share thatNumber one.
Number two when everyone isspeaking coaching, that's how
you develop a coaching culture.
If every department is speakingcoaching, if my direct report
is speaking coaching mysalespeople yes, they're
coaching customers.
That's the evolution.
(37:56):
If my boss is speaking coaching, we're all aligned and
connected.
That's the secret to developinga coaching culture In terms of
a couple of things that I'd liketo share, just to wrap up from
my end.
For those of you that would liketo tap into any more of my
resources, I have tons ofresources on my blog,
(38:18):
keithrosencom, and pleaseconnect with me on LinkedIn and,
of course, on Twitter.
There's a newsletter I havethat you can sign up for, where
I'm always sharing differenttools for leaders and
salespeople and, of course,things that affect our life
balance.
Right, because that's the onething that we all struggle with
is maintaining that life balance.
(38:40):
What's interesting, peoplereally don't have a time
management problem.
What they really have is apriority management problem.
So, in closing, I'd like toshare my final thought of every
company's universal philosophy,and here it is.
People create the mindset, itshapes behavior, behavior
(39:09):
defines culture, and culturedetermines success.
That is why the primaryinitiative, the primary goal of
every manager is to make theirpeople more valuable.
Jennifer (39:28):
Well, that is certainly a great way to sign
off on this very informativepodcast.
Keith, thank you so much.
I know you're a busy guy andtaking time out of your schedule
to join us has really been ahighlight for me particularly
and, cassie, I know same for you.
(39:49):
You're busy out there movinggrowth solutions forward, so
thank you for taking time out ofyour day to join the podcast as
well.
Finally, I want to thank all ofyou for taking time out of your
busy day.
I know that is sometimes reallychallenging to do, but thank
you for plugging into ourpodcast and from me and the
(40:12):
entire chat team, stay safe andwell and thanks for all you do.
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