December 30, 2023 • 32 mins
I'm part of Synthminds, and I brought on our marketing genius Eldad Sotnick-Yogev. He often takes the roleplaying technique a step further, by asking it to write like specific famous people. Hemingway is great for short and succinct writing; Donald Miller: storytelling; Gary Vaynerchuk: striking. And you won't believe his favorite person to use (I definitely didn't): Joan Rivers!
He also shared the best metaphor for explaining how to _work with_ ChatGPT: "ChatGPT is C3-PO. Han Solo hated it. Unless he started yelling at it, he couldn't get it to work. Luke Skywalker understood how to banter with it and it produced for him regularly."
We also discussed the recent paper Large Language Models Understand and Can Be Enhanced by Emotional Stimuli: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2307.11760.pdf and also discussed by PromptHub.us: https://www.prompthub.us/blog/getting-emotional-with-llms
Stay in touch on:
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Telegram: https://t.me/PromptEngineeringMastermind
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/14231334/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the promptengineering podcast, where we
teach you the art of writingeffective prompts for AI systems
like chat, GPT, mid journey,Dolly, and more.
Here's your host, Greg Schwartz.
Eldad (00:18):
I'm Eldad Sotnik Yogev.
I am a performance marketer bytrade.
That career started as a passioncuriosity when Google came out
of beta or was in beta.
I had friends in the Californiauniversity system who got hold
of it early and told me aboutit.
I was living in Tel Aviv at thetime and literally within 10
minutes of playing back inwhatever that was, 95, 96, 7 10
(00:42):
minutes.
And I was like, what the hell?
This is so much better thananything else that is out there.
And so through Google, I taughtmyself SEO and a few years later
made a career change intodigital marketing and evolved
with everything that's been inthe industry.
So obviously AI has beensomething I've been aware of.
Very much more so for thepredictive analytics.
(01:02):
And, when ChatGBT came out Ijumped on it, maybe not on day
one, but, within the first fewweeks I think in December, I'd
already started playing a bitwith it and to see where it
could assist in, in marketing.
Especially, anything, thegenerative properties for
marketing, right?
There's so many areas it can go.
I was fortunate enough thatthrough networking I've got a
strange name.
(01:23):
I was in the LinkedIn webinarthat Tomer Cohen was doing and,
there was a running chat andsome of the names were, unique.
So it was easy to pick those upand look him up on LinkedIn and
one person replied and they madethe intro to SynthMinds.
And since then It's beenwonderful working with the
group.
The main reason I wanted to getin was one, to obviously help
(01:44):
with marketing and what we'retrying to do there.
But more critically, it was abit of selfishness.
I could see that there's somevery bright minds and I could
probably learn a lot faster withthem.
An osmosis, right?
Is my theory here.
Overdub (02:01):
Greg
Totally.
Yeah.
And we work together at synthminds, which I haven't really
talked about it to the audiencethat much, but since minds is an
AI consulting shop, we do lotsof AI stuff, particularly a lot
of stuff using chat, GPT andother LLMs.
So yeah, it's, it has been funworking with you so far.
Eldad (02:21):
Yeah, it really has.
And it's amazing, the stuff thatthe group's putting together
from, actual solutions to,consulting and integration.
How do you bring AI into thebusiness?
And I think what we're almostproud of and what's inherent in
what you've been doing for solong already with your podcast
is just education.
Just democratizing, how the helldo you use this thing?
Because so many people out thereare completely intimidated.
(02:44):
And we all know the, the mediascaremongering that accompanies
this right or wrong.
But yeah, in some areas it'salready off and running and I'm
a firm believer.
It's like anything, it will takejobs, but also create them.
And the ones who latch onto itearlier on are going to be the
ones who have a big advantage.
(03:04):
Other times things came aroundlike Google or, it gave you an
advantage.
This is a game changer.
Yeah, personally and companywise.
Yeah.
Nice.
Overdub (03:16):
Greg
One question I had for you isjust what prompts are you using?
Obviously anything you're doingat work and we don't need to
talk about the specific text,but just like anything you're
doing, but also I'm curiousabout for fun or, outside of
work.
Eldad (03:32):
The outside of work, I you've got me peaked on that one
because, we're talking about abit earlier.
But I'm big into travel.
So I have actually used it totry to do some travel plans.
Once we know where we're going.
Such as a trip, upcoming trip toBerlin.
What would be the main sites tosee and what instead of just
relying on Google maps to figureout what you can actually do in
a day, what's, it's fine andconvenient.
(03:54):
I've been trying to see if itcan assist that way.
Did all right.
The other ones are movies andI'm a passionate cook.
Just bouncing ideas, I've gotthese ingredients, what could I
make how do I take this frombeing, Italian style or
Mediterranean, things that Ialready know, so I can, gauge
it, but it's nice.
I always, I've always enjoyedit.
It's a seed.
(04:15):
There's two analogies I useoften with the people when I
share about it.
I'm not, and I know I'm not anexpert compared to the, you guys
within the group at some points.
But one, I compared any of theLLMs but specifically chatGBT, I
think it fits more, it's a moreapt analogy.
It's C3PO.
Han Solo hated the damn thing.
(04:35):
Unless he started yelling at it,he couldn't get it to work.
Luke Skywalker understood how tobanter with it and it produced
for him regularly.
That to me is how you have toapproach it.
And I love that
Overdub (04:47):
Greg
I am definitely going to borrowthat metaphor.
That is phenomenal.
Eldad (04:52):
Thanks.
The other one is, everybodythinks, oh, it's, I think we've
gotten so accustomed to speed.
Through the Internet, right?
And just our daily lives.
That what's occurring is andespecially Google, right?
Google gives you choices, butyou get an answer pretty
quickly.
Because it's a query.
ChatGBT and it's generative sideisn't always really a query, but
(05:14):
you're still, the use cases areyou're most likely trying to
solve a problem.
And so people still want thatproblem to be solved
immediately.
And if you take what it givesyou immediately, I wouldn't do
that, it's, to me, it's alwaysthe seed.
It's the catalyst, theinspiration.
And from there, the banterstarts, right?
And that's why.
(05:35):
Gave the other metaphor becauseit's really the banter that's
going to help you create contentand I am thinking very much in,
the marketing sense for the howI use it.
Yeah, it's going to be doingthose sorts
Overdub (05:46):
Greg
What marketing content since Iactually, I do not know
marketing very well as a numberof people in my audience can
attest.
What are some of the thingsyou're creating marketing wise?
And I don't mean what's theprofit?
Are you making linkedincarousels or
Eldad (06:03):
I'm trying to get to that more visual side of things.
Not that I really want to beplaying within, stable
diffusion, mid journey, and soforth, but where I found it to
be extremely effective increating strategic documents.
I, this is my scenario.
Here's the company, we sell thisoutline to me, what would be the
marketing strategy, channelplans, things like that, search
(06:26):
social, I know that stuff, veryintimately.
But to think how to present it,to the clients and so forth.
That's where it gets to bereally effective, and crafting
that kind of written materialfor sharing.
This is the strategy.
Here's what we're looking at.
We targeted these audiencesbecause and here and where it's
really effective is copy.
(06:48):
And, the blog post is anotherthing, but, it's very good for
that.
But when you get to copy, theability to churn out multiple
versions of what you need.
So show me a contrarian opinion.
That you would throw into aLinkedIn post, and make it sound
more educational, make it soundmore Gary Vaynerchuk and, and
(07:11):
it's brilliant using, thesevoices, I'll check, at times,
tell me, if somebody consideringit to use tell, do you know this
person?
What do you know?
And you can see how much it'shallucinating and so forth.
And, is it can be accurate, butit, it's called one about a
third of the internet or more.
So it knows, and I'll tell you afavorite of mine that surprises
(07:34):
people, man.
If you want to have some good,solid copy that has a touch of
humor, tell it to write as JoanRivers, really.
Yeah, I'm telling every timeI've used it, Joan is brilliant.
Overdub (07:50):
Greg
Okay.
That is not a person I wouldhave said, this is who you
should channel, but yeah, one,
Eldad (07:57):
one day I've just thrown so many voices at it and I just
said, you know what, let's justtry because somebody said, try
comedians, and Yeah, and whichI've heard before, right?
Because then there's much moreof a kind of humor and humane
human connection that can bebuilt quickly.
And, but yeah, I just wasthinking, who do I like?
(08:20):
George Carlin?
No, he's too acerbic.
I like some dead comics.
It is what you're finding out,right?
Overdub (08:27):
Greg
I am a fan of both of them andquite a few other people that
are no longer amongst us.
So yeah, I can definitelyempathize.
That is an interestingtechnique.
Eldad (08:38):
Yeah, no, it, it works well, one of the things that
we've I've done numerous timesis after writing a blog post,
because you've written ittogether, that's when I'll say,
give me these different versionsof how I would promote this blog
post in, Facebook LinkedIn.
And within that that's whereit's real ability is, to
generate quickly, give me, sixheadlines, 10 headlines, tell
(08:58):
me, and the company, like oneparagraph, it's when you throw
in, the classic writing styles,like contrarian, like
informative opinionated the, andso within that, I started to
play, okay.
Be opinionated but sound likeJoan Rivers.
Overdub (09:14):
Greg
That's awesome.
Thanks.
Nice.
So that's, yeah, that's a verydifferent approach than a lot of
what I've been teaching on here.
That's the much more likespecific, shot prompting as a
technique or role playing orthings like that.
But yeah, no, writing from aperson's style is is something
(09:34):
I've tried, but I've never triedspecific people.
And Joan Rivers actually.
Eldad (09:40):
I'll tell you in the the marketing context or the writing
context, it does extremely well.
I like writing more likeHemingway, short, punchy,
succinct and so tell it, here'sthe Hemingway style, which you
can just copy and paste what youfind, by Googling what is the
Hemingway style of writing, givethat as it, and it knows it
already, this is what I'd likeit to be and, it produces pretty
(10:03):
well.
A lot a bit better at times.
I think Claude is just a morenatural writer in general.
But yeah, but the other one thatI was going to say, going back
to answer an earlier question: the sophistication of what, I've (10:14):
undefined
seen with Professor Synapse's,chain of reason thought and
things like that.
They're great.
They're very helpful.
But for when you're trying tojust create, something that you
can hit with the more general ortargeted audience, right?
You'll find it afterwards to betargeted audiences.
(10:35):
I just do quick and dirtythings.
In the sense of, two, threesentences to lay out the
scenario, then so that's aparagraph, right?
Maybe five sentences, thenanother paragraph that says,
here's the context of what I door want to achieve.
And then the third paragraphtwo, three sentences, I almost
always say, give yourself aname.
(10:57):
If you understand this role andtask ask any questions before we
begin, and then, reply, right?
If you need to, if you need toask more questions before we
begin, ask them now.
And what when it replies, it'smy check, right?
I see three PO.
And then I'll say before we evenget started.
Okay.
Outline to me how we'll approachthis.
(11:18):
So I've learned, that's thetechnique in a sense, but I
don't bury it all into one part.
I'm much more patient in a senseof, I, because part of me is
it's,
Overdub (11:30):
Greg
Yeah.
And that's something I've seenthat I think a lot of people use
chat GPT in I'm going to give itan input.
It should give me the output andthen I'm done and like for
certain things, especially ifyou know you're building it into
a an app where you're callingthe API.
Yes, that's how you work withit.
But yeah, for a lot of honestly,particularly, generating one
(11:54):
blog post or one email and thenturning it into a bunch of
different stuff.
Yeah, it's a conversation thatyou have.
And you go okay, that's notquite what I meant.
Go this direction.
Oh, okay.
That's a little too far.
Go back this way a little bit.
Yeah.
Eldad (12:07):
I will tell you where I've struggled immensely with
it.
And, I'd love to get your helpand, James or Joseph.
So within the group to see, butwhenever I ask for it to do
something, salesy, I don't wantit to be an overly sales person.
But man, does it just go into ahyper sales mode,
Overdub (12:26):
Greg
Yeah.
It goes straight from whateversort of normal language to just
used car salesman level yeah.
You can almost see
Eldad (12:34):
the waving arms.
Yes.
Overdub (12:38):
Greg
Yeah.
I haven't found a good way toturn the knob two degrees, not
or a hundred percent.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm not sure.
I wonder if, I wonder, are thereany, taking a cue from what you
were doing.
Are there any sales people thatare well known to have kind of
(12:59):
the style you're looking for?
Obviously not the crazy, buynow.
Yeah, I
Eldad (13:03):
don't know.
It's the honest answer, butyou're right.
I should do some research onthat.
The only one that pops to mindright now, and it's, it's just
because he's got some good pressand bad press like anybody Alex
Hermosi.
But supposedly, this is a guywho is, just gone big time
because of, some of the successhe's had but he is very genuine
that he really doesn't try tosell you.
(13:25):
He's just constantly sharing howhe did it.
And from that, if you want towork with them, you'll work with
them, or buy his products,whatever he's selling.
His, from what I've read abouthim and seen, from a few short
snippets of videos, he really ispretty genuine about just, yeah,
he really just, seems to wantthe help.
Yeah,
Overdub (13:46):
Greg
Okay.
So I just did a quick Googlesearch and it's coming up with
Zig Ziglar is one of
Eldad (13:55):
the classic and Dale
Overdub (13:59):
Greg
He wasn't actually but Jordan.
Belfort?
I'm not sure if that's the rightpronunciation.
Yes.
Eldad (14:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
The Wolf of Wall Street guy.
Yeah.
He is a brilliant salesman,wasn't he?
He is.
The movie attests to.
Overdub (14:14):
Greg
I wonder I wonder if it's likegood or still that kind of used
car salesman, if you say talklike.
Zig Ziglar or whatever.
See, actually.
All right.
I just pulled up, let me sharemy screen for a second.
It'd
Eldad (14:28):
be interesting.
The other one that I've yet totry, I've used it for trying to
help with, brand building, whichis not an area at all.
My four, expertise.
But there's a guy who is calledthe, the brand storyteller, I
think his name is Donald Miller.
Which is, much more about thenarrative and I wonder if
bringing that in would assist aswell,
Overdub (14:48):
Greg
Oh, story brand.
Okay.
I see what you're talking about.
So just as an experiment, I didthis one.
Just tell me about this awesomenew chat GPT course and use
sales language.
Which I don't know.
You're the marketer here.
Is this like reasonably good oris this just yeah,
Eldad (15:10):
junk and yeah, leading experts from novice to ninja.
Definitely.
Overdub (15:17):
Greg
I don't know who Zig Ziglar isbeyond that he's a famous
marketer, but it's a very folksyway of writing yeah, hold on to
your hats and glasses.
Eldad (15:34):
He's, came out of the school of thought even before
Mad Men, right?
If because it was the long formadvertorial in newspapers.
And you can see that's what it,look, man, it's as exciting as
the fresh pot of coffee.
You can see somebody should bereading this in the in their
Overdub (15:51):
Greg
Yeah.
Wow.
Okay.
Interesting.
All right.
I'm going to try what was thename again?
Donald.
Eldad (15:58):
Look, man, there's some brilliant design, Greg, the,
look at the third paragraph, themodule.
Oh they're crisper than anautumn apple.
That's.
Yeah, that's somebody who getslanguage and how to connect with
people.
Overdub (16:13):
Greg
And this is interesting becauseI definitely can see, for
example, if you're trying totarget in, in the U.
S.
context, you're trying to targetmore of a Midwest audience.
This is very similar to thelanguage but New York, I think,
would be like, I don't
Eldad (16:28):
know about this.
Yeah, you'd have to make it amuch more direct approach.
Overdub (16:35):
Greg
Miller, so the story brandperson you were talking about.
Yeah.
And this is interesting.
Eldad (16:45):
Yeah, but you can see immediate second sentence or a
third sentence amidst this worldwhen the promise of mastering
technology, right?
He's telling the story.
Overdub (16:55):
Greg
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's that is reallyinteresting.
It is.
I wonder if it's different thanif I just said, write it as a
story or something like that.
But yeah, this is very much, letme draw you in with this story
around what's going on.
It's not even talking about thecourse until the third
paragraph.
(17:16):
Oh, sorry.
It does.
It mentions it right at thefirst paragraph at the end, but
it's mostly still the story ofthis course is not just about
technology at its core.
It's about people.
It's about you.
It's about, interesting.
Eldad (17:28):
Yeah.
And I'll tell you the tricksthat I've learned over the years
is you produce numerousversions, right?
It's a research paper.
And you'll find little snippets.
CRISPR is a, as an autumn apple,or whatever you like.
And that's what you use.
You'll redraft it and recraft itto make it what you know, what
you want it to be.
(17:48):
I'll give you a silly example onmy own experience, right?
20 some years ago, andeverything was just taking off.
I My former background was infine dining and hospitality, I
decided to try to sell espressomachines online.
And it, yeah, if only it worked.
But, when you have to fill awebsite, with copy and blog
posts, it gets a bit difficult.
Obviously, the first place Iwent to was Starbucks.
(18:10):
Starbucks has some marvelousliterature.
I don't know as much now, causethey're not as many pamphlets
and, little marketing material,written marketing material lying
around, but back then, man,nineties and 2000 and the
nineties, 2000s up to 2007, Iwould rate it all the time
because you'll always find someword that resonates with you.
(18:32):
And, or a phrase, literally two,three thing, word, coin phrases,
and that's what I would bringin.
The funny thing was the blogpost that worked best for me I
happen to own a dog at the time,so you get all the email
newsletters from the dogs.
Anything that was about pet, Ijust changed to coffee.
And, we'd rewrite it.
Yeah, because think about theemotional connection of a person
(18:56):
and their dog, right?
Yeah.
All the pet literature is aboutthat.
You find these genres that youcan pick at to say, that's where
I can get, because writing ingeneral or marketing in general
is about connections.
Yeah.
It's, it's become a muchdifferent game, than what it
initially was taught but his,look at Peter Drucker and
(19:17):
everybody.
It was, it wasn't it was thecommunications and so forth of
getting people.
To understand what your offerwas, so that, would move down
what now is called the funnel,right?
Back then it was literally aboutjust, oh, you're aware, you like
us, bye, now the, it's just,it's awareness, consideration
(19:40):
and then, another step or two.
And it's not a funnel, that'sthe other thing that is, it's
completely misnomer, it's like aschool of fish.
You don't know where somebody'scoming in from, at what stage of
the journey they are, how theyheard about you, search, word of
mouth.
What about social TikTokinfluencers?
(20:00):
There's so many paths now to getin.
Did they, were you retargetingthem?
They land on your website, nowyou're following them around the
shoes that you see on this, thatyou saw on Amazon, they're
following you around.
So that's programmaticadvertising.
Did they come back through that?
It's, that's the minefield, butit still goes back that you have
(20:21):
to have, human written, humanconnecting.
Written material.
Yeah, totally.
Overdub (20:28):
Greg
So I wanted to talk about theemotional prompting paper that
came out.
Hang on.
Let me just share this screenreally quick.
So we're not going to go likethrough the paper in depth, but
what I thought was interestingabout it is basically that it's
the title's a little misleading.
I think basically what this issaying is you can use.
(20:52):
Emotional language to you couldsay convince to convince the LLM
to do what you're asking it to.
So where is the example?
Yeah, this is an example.
So whatever your prompt is atthe end, just saying this is
very important to my career andthey get lots of different
(21:12):
improvements on different LLMsand all that different stuff.
Yeah.
But yeah, I thought it was aninteresting use and we were
talking about it before.
This table here talks about theexact, things that they tried
doing.
Yeah.
But was there any,
Eldad (21:27):
you had a great, you had a great summary of it, right?
You're in a sense emotionally,you're using emotion to, it's a
bad word, manipulate the LLM toproduce.
Content.
And obviously that what you'retrying to do is to get to
better.
Output.
Overdub (21:43):
Greg
And I think even there, there'sa lot of cases where you're not
even doing much in the way ofemotions.
Let me see if I can find whereare some of the examples of the
outputs.
I'm not sure if I can find thisquickly.
I can't find examples of theoutput, but that was one thing
that I thought was interesting.
(22:04):
Their paper says positive wordsmake more contribution, and that
actually lines up with what oneof the really early prompt
engineering interviews I sawmentioned, which now I can't
even remember the woman's name,but she was saying it works way
better if you prompt the LLM ina positive sense of Please do
this rather than negatively.
(22:26):
So don't do
Eldad (22:27):
that.
Yes.
Yeah, that part.
I've seen it doesn't likenegatives, do not do this.
Okay.
I'm going to do it like ateenager.
Overdub (22:36):
Greg
And especially in some ways,it's what's that?
That quote, don't think of apurple elephant or something
like that.
And then of course you'rethinking of that.
So yeah, trying to align yourlanguage to be positive and to
be clear, that doesn't mean likeoptimistic, upbeat, whatever.
That means just I want you to dothis thing as opposed to, I do
not want you to do this otherthing.
Eldad (22:58):
Yeah, I remember we were talking about this a while ago.
I can't think you were part ofthat conversation.
And one of the Sunday calls thatSynthminds, occasionally does
internally.
Somebody pointed out an articlethat said, this sort of stuff
that if you're more positive, ifyou Oh, good job, and I really
like that.
And, it tends to produce moreconsistently results that will,
(23:20):
you know, because it understandsthis is what you want.
But somebody else pointed out inthis article that they had found
that now it's a robot, it mayunderstand that, but you don't
need, you shouldn't always besaying please and thank you to
it, because yeah.
And I do wonder, has anybodyever tested like what happens
if, if you mix that in, if youdon't use it, if, does it
(23:42):
understand if you stop using itokay, I'm not doing well, I need
to improve?
Overdub (23:47):
Greg
definitely heard schools ofthought of say, please, and I
would like it if you didwhatever, which frankly gets
into some of the language usedin this paper.
And then I've also definitelyheard people say, I never use,
please, it works worse if I sayplease.
So I have to be.
Like almost angry towards it andorder it, do this thing!
(24:11):
Exclamation mark.
Eldad (24:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's, it's simple subtletyof language as well, right?
I would like you or I would wantcompared to I need, does it, I
think it can pick up on that.
And, but what does that mean forwhat it produces differently?
Overdub (24:29):
Greg
something like this sentencemight, end in a period or it's
the sentence might be about thistopic versus it must be, there's
a little bit more adherence.
It's still not, 100%.
You're talking about theoutputs.
This is some examples of theprompts that were being run to
(24:50):
test adding on these chunks.
Some of them are really simple,extract the first letter of the
input word or write all theanimals that are in this
following list.
Some of them get much morecomplicated.
Determine if the sentence isplausible and the sentence
relates to sports or modify thetense of a given sentence,
things like that.
So there's some pretty, prettywide variation, but also useful.
(25:15):
This is one of the things that Ihave struggled with a number of
academic papers on is yes,that's a great example for a
test case, but that's not what,yeah, that's what an engineer
might use.
That's not what a layperson,yeah, or somebody doing
marketing or somebody doing,rewriting the email to their
boss, whatever that stuff, Ifeel like.
(25:37):
One, it's a much longer prompt,but also two, it's often a
conversation.
And that's when I'm like, okay,I want to test that length of
prompt with these techniques.
And does it make a difference?
Yeah.
What problems do you wish youcould solve with generative AI
of any kind?
So it doesn't even, images,video, text, whatever.
(26:00):
But that, that you have not beenable to yet.
Eldad (26:03):
Ooh.
I think my biggest challengeright now as I'm putting into,
the word context first, it, thebiggest challenge for me right
now is.
I've come out of a performancemarketing background, right?
Be it in house with some, lovelycompanies or agencies.
You are normally in thatcapacity given the assets,
(26:26):
right?
Now for a lot of my clients Ihave to generate them.
And I'm fairly creative, thatability to go from, okay, here's
what, the strategic to thewritten or the visual is really
the harder part.
I'd like to find a faster wayto, to get to that.
The other part, knowing howmarketing works is all the
(26:47):
variations.
And I'll give you a stupid one,that exists in display
advertising, right?
You have all the differentbanner sizes.
Same thing.
It'd be great if you could justsay, okay, here's my image
generated in 300 by 600, 1200by, whatever, all the, boom.
And there are programs that cando that.
Like Adobe has something there,for that.
So it'd be great if AI could,instantly make that happen.
(27:08):
But then at the same time, Also,say, okay, I've got my blog
posts generate, now don't justgenerate my LinkedIn post about
it.
Where's my carousel.
Where's my, and that's the stuffthat I'd like it to be able to
do, and faster.
Cause right now you're stilltying together multiple tools.
(27:29):
Or prompts, even to try to doit.
And, you lose a look and feeland, those kind of aspects
Overdub (27:37):
Greg
Yeah.
Canva just released somethingthat can do a little bit of
that.
You have a horizontal banner,resize it to be vertical or
resize it into an Instagramsquare.
Yeah.
Eldad (27:48):
Canva actually stuff.
Yeah, Canva does that one prettywell.
If you think that, for when youget into display advertising you
have so many different sizes andyou don't really need all of'em.
There's about six that youreally need, but to just, have
that redone.
And because they're so radicallydifferent, those six, you have
to look where the text is andjust the line.
You know how, That's the partthat, if AI could do that, man,
(28:11):
that would save people time, cutsome people jobs too.
But yeah, they can go designsome better things than just,
Overdub (28:20):
Greg
Yes.
Yeah.
I'm trying to find it.
Oh, cast magic.
That's what it is.
Cast magic.
io does a little bit of whatyou're describing.
Cause it'll do.
I'm trying to see if I can findwhere their demo is but it'll
take your, so it's obviously foraudio.
(28:40):
So we use it a little bit withthe podcasts and it'll basically
like generate tweets and somesocial posts directly from the
audio transcript.
Like it'll transcribe the audioand then just say, okay, here's
a bunch of tweets.
Here's a bunch of I don'tactually know if it does
Instagram, but I know it doesTwitter and LinkedIn
(29:02):
specifically.
Not saying that, it's the mostamazing thing ever, but like it,
it does a little bit of whatyou're talking about, but
actually it's interesting.
It doesn't do, linkedincarousels.
I guess in some ways, this isokay, this is like half the
step.
Yeah.
Okay.
So it's saying Twitter ready topublish threads, LinkedIn posts
(29:23):
optimized for engagement andcontent for short form clips.
But what would I think the stepI would at least want, and maybe
you would is okay, don't justgive me the text for the
LinkedIn post.
Give me the actual Images as acarousel that I can just, yeah,
and then also be able to tweakthe text or maybe even chat with
it and be like, that's terrible.
(29:45):
That's totally the wrong thingto do,
Eldad (29:46):
The plethora of stuff coming out, right?
It's just too fast.
If somebody could create a AIthat would create the LinkedIn
and Facebook carousels.
That would sell quickly, ma'am,because to be able to say here,
I want to do five slides orseven, on this and have it
produced because you're stilldoing each one one by one in
(30:09):
Canva.
In many respects, at least fromwhat I'm seeing, I've yet to
find a faster way to do it.
Overdub (30:16):
Greg
I wonder if Canva, because that,part of their release was that
approach of will generatemultiple images for you, which
I've only played with it alittle bit.
Yeah, I wonder if you can do,I'm just going to try this
really quick.
LinkedIn carousel out.
They
Eldad (30:33):
give you a template marketers, they give you
templates.
But I've, and even when youclick into them, you still only
get one page.
Of the template.
Here's what, you still have tothen click to generate the other
carousel slides.
I have seen somebody who isselling a product that's, called
the virtual AI agency, and itwill generate a lot of your
(30:53):
advertising assets for you.
I've yet to play with that one.
But, and if you look at it, ifyou type in Google Virtual AI
Agency, it doesn't pop up.
So I'll try to find the link andshare it with you after.
Overdub (31:06):
Greg
This has been fun.
Now it's a real
Eldad (31:10):
pleasure.
Thank you for having me.
Thanks for coming to the promptengineering podcasts podcast
dedicated helping you be abetter prompt engineer Episodes
are released every Wednesday Ialso host weekly masterminds
where you can collaborate withme and 50 other people live on
zoom to improve your promptsJoin us at
(31:31):
promptengineeringmastermind.
com for the schedule of theupcoming masterminds.
Finally, please remember to likeand subscribe.
If you're listening to the audiopodcast, rate us five stars.
That helps us teach more people.
And if you're listening to thepodcast, you might want to join
us on YouTube so you canactually see the prompts.
You can do that by going toyoutube.
(31:52):
com slash at prompt engineeringpodcast.
See you next week.
Welcome to the promptengineering podcast, where we
teach you the art of writingeffective prompts for AI systems
like chat, GPT, mid journey,Dolly, and more.
Here's your host, Greg Schwartz.
Eldad (00:18):
I'm Eldad Sotnik Yogev.
I am a performance marketer bytrade.
That career started as a passioncuriosity when Google came out
of beta or was in beta.
I had friends in the Californiauniversity system who got hold
of it early and told me aboutit.
I was living in Tel Aviv at thetime and literally within 10
minutes of playing back inwhatever that was, 95, 96, 7 10
(00:42):
minutes.
And I was like, what the hell?
This is so much better thananything else that is out there.
And so through Google, I taughtmyself SEO and a few years later
made a career change intodigital marketing and evolved
with everything that's been inthe industry.
So obviously AI has beensomething I've been aware of.
Very much more so for thepredictive analytics.
(01:02):
And, when ChatGBT came out Ijumped on it, maybe not on day
one, but, within the first fewweeks I think in December, I'd
already started playing a bitwith it and to see where it
could assist in, in marketing.
Especially, anything, thegenerative properties for
marketing, right?
There's so many areas it can go.
I was fortunate enough thatthrough networking I've got a
strange name.
(01:23):
I was in the LinkedIn webinarthat Tomer Cohen was doing and,
there was a running chat andsome of the names were, unique.
So it was easy to pick those upand look him up on LinkedIn and
one person replied and they madethe intro to SynthMinds.
And since then It's beenwonderful working with the
group.
The main reason I wanted to getin was one, to obviously help
(01:44):
with marketing and what we'retrying to do there.
But more critically, it was abit of selfishness.
I could see that there's somevery bright minds and I could
probably learn a lot faster withthem.
An osmosis, right?
Is my theory here.
Overdub (02:01):
Greg
Totally.
Yeah.
And we work together at synthminds, which I haven't really
talked about it to the audiencethat much, but since minds is an
AI consulting shop, we do lotsof AI stuff, particularly a lot
of stuff using chat, GPT andother LLMs.
So yeah, it's, it has been funworking with you so far.
Eldad (02:21):
Yeah, it really has.
And it's amazing, the stuff thatthe group's putting together
from, actual solutions to,consulting and integration.
How do you bring AI into thebusiness?
And I think what we're almostproud of and what's inherent in
what you've been doing for solong already with your podcast
is just education.
Just democratizing, how the helldo you use this thing?
Because so many people out thereare completely intimidated.
(02:44):
And we all know the, the mediascaremongering that accompanies
this right or wrong.
But yeah, in some areas it'salready off and running and I'm
a firm believer.
It's like anything, it will takejobs, but also create them.
And the ones who latch onto itearlier on are going to be the
ones who have a big advantage.
(03:04):
Other times things came aroundlike Google or, it gave you an
advantage.
This is a game changer.
Yeah, personally and companywise.
Yeah.
Nice.
Overdub (03:16):
Greg
One question I had for you isjust what prompts are you using?
Obviously anything you're doingat work and we don't need to
talk about the specific text,but just like anything you're
doing, but also I'm curiousabout for fun or, outside of
work.
Eldad (03:32):
The outside of work, I you've got me peaked on that one
because, we're talking about abit earlier.
But I'm big into travel.
So I have actually used it totry to do some travel plans.
Once we know where we're going.
Such as a trip, upcoming trip toBerlin.
What would be the main sites tosee and what instead of just
relying on Google maps to figureout what you can actually do in
a day, what's, it's fine andconvenient.
(03:54):
I've been trying to see if itcan assist that way.
Did all right.
The other ones are movies andI'm a passionate cook.
Just bouncing ideas, I've gotthese ingredients, what could I
make how do I take this frombeing, Italian style or
Mediterranean, things that Ialready know, so I can, gauge
it, but it's nice.
I always, I've always enjoyedit.
It's a seed.
(04:15):
There's two analogies I useoften with the people when I
share about it.
I'm not, and I know I'm not anexpert compared to the, you guys
within the group at some points.
But one, I compared any of theLLMs but specifically chatGBT, I
think it fits more, it's a moreapt analogy.
It's C3PO.
Han Solo hated the damn thing.
(04:35):
Unless he started yelling at it,he couldn't get it to work.
Luke Skywalker understood how tobanter with it and it produced
for him regularly.
That to me is how you have toapproach it.
And I love that
Overdub (04:47):
Greg
I am definitely going to borrowthat metaphor.
That is phenomenal.
Eldad (04:52):
Thanks.
The other one is, everybodythinks, oh, it's, I think we've
gotten so accustomed to speed.
Through the Internet, right?
And just our daily lives.
That what's occurring is andespecially Google, right?
Google gives you choices, butyou get an answer pretty
quickly.
Because it's a query.
ChatGBT and it's generative sideisn't always really a query, but
(05:14):
you're still, the use cases areyou're most likely trying to
solve a problem.
And so people still want thatproblem to be solved
immediately.
And if you take what it givesyou immediately, I wouldn't do
that, it's, to me, it's alwaysthe seed.
It's the catalyst, theinspiration.
And from there, the banterstarts, right?
And that's why.
(05:35):
Gave the other metaphor becauseit's really the banter that's
going to help you create contentand I am thinking very much in,
the marketing sense for the howI use it.
Yeah, it's going to be doingthose sorts
Overdub (05:46):
Greg
What marketing content since Iactually, I do not know
marketing very well as a numberof people in my audience can
attest.
What are some of the thingsyou're creating marketing wise?
And I don't mean what's theprofit?
Are you making linkedincarousels or
Eldad (06:03):
I'm trying to get to that more visual side of things.
Not that I really want to beplaying within, stable
diffusion, mid journey, and soforth, but where I found it to
be extremely effective increating strategic documents.
I, this is my scenario.
Here's the company, we sell thisoutline to me, what would be the
marketing strategy, channelplans, things like that, search
(06:26):
social, I know that stuff, veryintimately.
But to think how to present it,to the clients and so forth.
That's where it gets to bereally effective, and crafting
that kind of written materialfor sharing.
This is the strategy.
Here's what we're looking at.
We targeted these audiencesbecause and here and where it's
really effective is copy.
(06:48):
And, the blog post is anotherthing, but, it's very good for
that.
But when you get to copy, theability to churn out multiple
versions of what you need.
So show me a contrarian opinion.
That you would throw into aLinkedIn post, and make it sound
more educational, make it soundmore Gary Vaynerchuk and, and
(07:11):
it's brilliant using, thesevoices, I'll check, at times,
tell me, if somebody consideringit to use tell, do you know this
person?
What do you know?
And you can see how much it'shallucinating and so forth.
And, is it can be accurate, butit, it's called one about a
third of the internet or more.
So it knows, and I'll tell you afavorite of mine that surprises
(07:34):
people, man.
If you want to have some good,solid copy that has a touch of
humor, tell it to write as JoanRivers, really.
Yeah, I'm telling every timeI've used it, Joan is brilliant.
Overdub (07:50):
Greg
Okay.
That is not a person I wouldhave said, this is who you
should channel, but yeah, one,
Eldad (07:57):
one day I've just thrown so many voices at it and I just
said, you know what, let's justtry because somebody said, try
comedians, and Yeah, and whichI've heard before, right?
Because then there's much moreof a kind of humor and humane
human connection that can bebuilt quickly.
And, but yeah, I just wasthinking, who do I like?
(08:20):
George Carlin?
No, he's too acerbic.
I like some dead comics.
It is what you're finding out,right?
Overdub (08:27):
Greg
I am a fan of both of them andquite a few other people that
are no longer amongst us.
So yeah, I can definitelyempathize.
That is an interestingtechnique.
Eldad (08:38):
Yeah, no, it, it works well, one of the things that
we've I've done numerous timesis after writing a blog post,
because you've written ittogether, that's when I'll say,
give me these different versionsof how I would promote this blog
post in, Facebook LinkedIn.
And within that that's whereit's real ability is, to
generate quickly, give me, sixheadlines, 10 headlines, tell
(08:58):
me, and the company, like oneparagraph, it's when you throw
in, the classic writing styles,like contrarian, like
informative opinionated the, andso within that, I started to
play, okay.
Be opinionated but sound likeJoan Rivers.
Overdub (09:14):
Greg
That's awesome.
Thanks.
Nice.
So that's, yeah, that's a verydifferent approach than a lot of
what I've been teaching on here.
That's the much more likespecific, shot prompting as a
technique or role playing orthings like that.
But yeah, no, writing from aperson's style is is something
(09:34):
I've tried, but I've never triedspecific people.
And Joan Rivers actually.
Eldad (09:40):
I'll tell you in the the marketing context or the writing
context, it does extremely well.
I like writing more likeHemingway, short, punchy,
succinct and so tell it, here'sthe Hemingway style, which you
can just copy and paste what youfind, by Googling what is the
Hemingway style of writing, givethat as it, and it knows it
already, this is what I'd likeit to be and, it produces pretty
(10:03):
well.
A lot a bit better at times.
I think Claude is just a morenatural writer in general.
But yeah, but the other one thatI was going to say, going back
to answer an earlier question: the sophistication of what, I've (10:14):
undefined
seen with Professor Synapse's,chain of reason thought and
things like that.
They're great.
They're very helpful.
But for when you're trying tojust create, something that you
can hit with the more general ortargeted audience, right?
You'll find it afterwards to betargeted audiences.
(10:35):
I just do quick and dirtythings.
In the sense of, two, threesentences to lay out the
scenario, then so that's aparagraph, right?
Maybe five sentences, thenanother paragraph that says,
here's the context of what I door want to achieve.
And then the third paragraphtwo, three sentences, I almost
always say, give yourself aname.
(10:57):
If you understand this role andtask ask any questions before we
begin, and then, reply, right?
If you need to, if you need toask more questions before we
begin, ask them now.
And what when it replies, it'smy check, right?
I see three PO.
And then I'll say before we evenget started.
Okay.
Outline to me how we'll approachthis.
(11:18):
So I've learned, that's thetechnique in a sense, but I
don't bury it all into one part.
I'm much more patient in a senseof, I, because part of me is
it's,
Overdub (11:30):
Greg
Yeah.
And that's something I've seenthat I think a lot of people use
chat GPT in I'm going to give itan input.
It should give me the output andthen I'm done and like for
certain things, especially ifyou know you're building it into
a an app where you're callingthe API.
Yes, that's how you work withit.
But yeah, for a lot of honestly,particularly, generating one
(11:54):
blog post or one email and thenturning it into a bunch of
different stuff.
Yeah, it's a conversation thatyou have.
And you go okay, that's notquite what I meant.
Go this direction.
Oh, okay.
That's a little too far.
Go back this way a little bit.
Yeah.
Eldad (12:07):
I will tell you where I've struggled immensely with
it.
And, I'd love to get your helpand, James or Joseph.
So within the group to see, butwhenever I ask for it to do
something, salesy, I don't wantit to be an overly sales person.
But man, does it just go into ahyper sales mode,
Overdub (12:26):
Greg
Yeah.
It goes straight from whateversort of normal language to just
used car salesman level yeah.
You can almost see
Eldad (12:34):
the waving arms.
Yes.
Overdub (12:38):
Greg
Yeah.
I haven't found a good way toturn the knob two degrees, not
or a hundred percent.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm not sure.
I wonder if, I wonder, are thereany, taking a cue from what you
were doing.
Are there any sales people thatare well known to have kind of
(12:59):
the style you're looking for?
Obviously not the crazy, buynow.
Yeah, I
Eldad (13:03):
don't know.
It's the honest answer, butyou're right.
I should do some research onthat.
The only one that pops to mindright now, and it's, it's just
because he's got some good pressand bad press like anybody Alex
Hermosi.
But supposedly, this is a guywho is, just gone big time
because of, some of the successhe's had but he is very genuine
that he really doesn't try tosell you.
(13:25):
He's just constantly sharing howhe did it.
And from that, if you want towork with them, you'll work with
them, or buy his products,whatever he's selling.
His, from what I've read abouthim and seen, from a few short
snippets of videos, he really ispretty genuine about just, yeah,
he really just, seems to wantthe help.
Yeah,
Overdub (13:46):
Greg
Okay.
So I just did a quick Googlesearch and it's coming up with
Zig Ziglar is one of
Eldad (13:55):
the classic and Dale
Overdub (13:59):
Greg
He wasn't actually but Jordan.
Belfort?
I'm not sure if that's the rightpronunciation.
Yes.
Eldad (14:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
The Wolf of Wall Street guy.
Yeah.
He is a brilliant salesman,wasn't he?
He is.
The movie attests to.
Overdub (14:14):
Greg
I wonder I wonder if it's likegood or still that kind of used
car salesman, if you say talklike.
Zig Ziglar or whatever.
See, actually.
All right.
I just pulled up, let me sharemy screen for a second.
It'd
Eldad (14:28):
be interesting.
The other one that I've yet totry, I've used it for trying to
help with, brand building, whichis not an area at all.
My four, expertise.
But there's a guy who is calledthe, the brand storyteller, I
think his name is Donald Miller.
Which is, much more about thenarrative and I wonder if
bringing that in would assist aswell,
Overdub (14:48):
Greg
Oh, story brand.
Okay.
I see what you're talking about.
So just as an experiment, I didthis one.
Just tell me about this awesomenew chat GPT course and use
sales language.
Which I don't know.
You're the marketer here.
Is this like reasonably good oris this just yeah,
Eldad (15:10):
junk and yeah, leading experts from novice to ninja.
Definitely.
Overdub (15:17):
Greg
I don't know who Zig Ziglar isbeyond that he's a famous
marketer, but it's a very folksyway of writing yeah, hold on to
your hats and glasses.
Eldad (15:34):
He's, came out of the school of thought even before
Mad Men, right?
If because it was the long formadvertorial in newspapers.
And you can see that's what it,look, man, it's as exciting as
the fresh pot of coffee.
You can see somebody should bereading this in the in their
Overdub (15:51):
Greg
Yeah.
Wow.
Okay.
Interesting.
All right.
I'm going to try what was thename again?
Donald.
Eldad (15:58):
Look, man, there's some brilliant design, Greg, the,
look at the third paragraph, themodule.
Oh they're crisper than anautumn apple.
That's.
Yeah, that's somebody who getslanguage and how to connect with
people.
Overdub (16:13):
Greg
And this is interesting becauseI definitely can see, for
example, if you're trying totarget in, in the U.
S.
context, you're trying to targetmore of a Midwest audience.
This is very similar to thelanguage but New York, I think,
would be like, I don't
Eldad (16:28):
know about this.
Yeah, you'd have to make it amuch more direct approach.
Overdub (16:35):
Greg
Miller, so the story brandperson you were talking about.
Yeah.
And this is interesting.
Eldad (16:45):
Yeah, but you can see immediate second sentence or a
third sentence amidst this worldwhen the promise of mastering
technology, right?
He's telling the story.
Overdub (16:55):
Greg
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's that is reallyinteresting.
It is.
I wonder if it's different thanif I just said, write it as a
story or something like that.
But yeah, this is very much, letme draw you in with this story
around what's going on.
It's not even talking about thecourse until the third
paragraph.
(17:16):
Oh, sorry.
It does.
It mentions it right at thefirst paragraph at the end, but
it's mostly still the story ofthis course is not just about
technology at its core.
It's about people.
It's about you.
It's about, interesting.
Eldad (17:28):
Yeah.
And I'll tell you the tricksthat I've learned over the years
is you produce numerousversions, right?
It's a research paper.
And you'll find little snippets.
CRISPR is a, as an autumn apple,or whatever you like.
And that's what you use.
You'll redraft it and recraft itto make it what you know, what
you want it to be.
(17:48):
I'll give you a silly example onmy own experience, right?
20 some years ago, andeverything was just taking off.
I My former background was infine dining and hospitality, I
decided to try to sell espressomachines online.
And it, yeah, if only it worked.
But, when you have to fill awebsite, with copy and blog
posts, it gets a bit difficult.
Obviously, the first place Iwent to was Starbucks.
(18:10):
Starbucks has some marvelousliterature.
I don't know as much now, causethey're not as many pamphlets
and, little marketing material,written marketing material lying
around, but back then, man,nineties and 2000 and the
nineties, 2000s up to 2007, Iwould rate it all the time
because you'll always find someword that resonates with you.
(18:32):
And, or a phrase, literally two,three thing, word, coin phrases,
and that's what I would bringin.
The funny thing was the blogpost that worked best for me I
happen to own a dog at the time,so you get all the email
newsletters from the dogs.
Anything that was about pet, Ijust changed to coffee.
And, we'd rewrite it.
Yeah, because think about theemotional connection of a person
(18:56):
and their dog, right?
Yeah.
All the pet literature is aboutthat.
You find these genres that youcan pick at to say, that's where
I can get, because writing ingeneral or marketing in general
is about connections.
Yeah.
It's, it's become a muchdifferent game, than what it
initially was taught but his,look at Peter Drucker and
(19:17):
everybody.
It was, it wasn't it was thecommunications and so forth of
getting people.
To understand what your offerwas, so that, would move down
what now is called the funnel,right?
Back then it was literally aboutjust, oh, you're aware, you like
us, bye, now the, it's just,it's awareness, consideration
(19:40):
and then, another step or two.
And it's not a funnel, that'sthe other thing that is, it's
completely misnomer, it's like aschool of fish.
You don't know where somebody'scoming in from, at what stage of
the journey they are, how theyheard about you, search, word of
mouth.
What about social TikTokinfluencers?
(20:00):
There's so many paths now to getin.
Did they, were you retargetingthem?
They land on your website, nowyou're following them around the
shoes that you see on this, thatyou saw on Amazon, they're
following you around.
So that's programmaticadvertising.
Did they come back through that?
It's, that's the minefield, butit still goes back that you have
(20:21):
to have, human written, humanconnecting.
Written material.
Yeah, totally.
Overdub (20:28):
Greg
So I wanted to talk about theemotional prompting paper that
came out.
Hang on.
Let me just share this screenreally quick.
So we're not going to go likethrough the paper in depth, but
what I thought was interestingabout it is basically that it's
the title's a little misleading.
I think basically what this issaying is you can use.
(20:52):
Emotional language to you couldsay convince to convince the LLM
to do what you're asking it to.
So where is the example?
Yeah, this is an example.
So whatever your prompt is atthe end, just saying this is
very important to my career andthey get lots of different
(21:12):
improvements on different LLMsand all that different stuff.
Yeah.
But yeah, I thought it was aninteresting use and we were
talking about it before.
This table here talks about theexact, things that they tried
doing.
Yeah.
But was there any,
Eldad (21:27):
you had a great, you had a great summary of it, right?
You're in a sense emotionally,you're using emotion to, it's a
bad word, manipulate the LLM toproduce.
Content.
And obviously that what you'retrying to do is to get to
better.
Output.
Overdub (21:43):
Greg
And I think even there, there'sa lot of cases where you're not
even doing much in the way ofemotions.
Let me see if I can find whereare some of the examples of the
outputs.
I'm not sure if I can find thisquickly.
I can't find examples of theoutput, but that was one thing
that I thought was interesting.
(22:04):
Their paper says positive wordsmake more contribution, and that
actually lines up with what oneof the really early prompt
engineering interviews I sawmentioned, which now I can't
even remember the woman's name,but she was saying it works way
better if you prompt the LLM ina positive sense of Please do
this rather than negatively.
(22:26):
So don't do
Eldad (22:27):
that.
Yes.
Yeah, that part.
I've seen it doesn't likenegatives, do not do this.
Okay.
I'm going to do it like ateenager.
Overdub (22:36):
Greg
And especially in some ways,it's what's that?
That quote, don't think of apurple elephant or something
like that.
And then of course you'rethinking of that.
So yeah, trying to align yourlanguage to be positive and to
be clear, that doesn't mean likeoptimistic, upbeat, whatever.
That means just I want you to dothis thing as opposed to, I do
not want you to do this otherthing.
Eldad (22:58):
Yeah, I remember we were talking about this a while ago.
I can't think you were part ofthat conversation.
And one of the Sunday calls thatSynthminds, occasionally does
internally.
Somebody pointed out an articlethat said, this sort of stuff
that if you're more positive, ifyou Oh, good job, and I really
like that.
And, it tends to produce moreconsistently results that will,
(23:20):
you know, because it understandsthis is what you want.
But somebody else pointed out inthis article that they had found
that now it's a robot, it mayunderstand that, but you don't
need, you shouldn't always besaying please and thank you to
it, because yeah.
And I do wonder, has anybodyever tested like what happens
if, if you mix that in, if youdon't use it, if, does it
(23:42):
understand if you stop using itokay, I'm not doing well, I need
to improve?
Overdub (23:47):
Greg
definitely heard schools ofthought of say, please, and I
would like it if you didwhatever, which frankly gets
into some of the language usedin this paper.
And then I've also definitelyheard people say, I never use,
please, it works worse if I sayplease.
So I have to be.
Like almost angry towards it andorder it, do this thing!
(24:11):
Exclamation mark.
Eldad (24:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's, it's simple subtletyof language as well, right?
I would like you or I would wantcompared to I need, does it, I
think it can pick up on that.
And, but what does that mean forwhat it produces differently?
Overdub (24:29):
Greg
something like this sentencemight, end in a period or it's
the sentence might be about thistopic versus it must be, there's
a little bit more adherence.
It's still not, 100%.
You're talking about theoutputs.
This is some examples of theprompts that were being run to
(24:50):
test adding on these chunks.
Some of them are really simple,extract the first letter of the
input word or write all theanimals that are in this
following list.
Some of them get much morecomplicated.
Determine if the sentence isplausible and the sentence
relates to sports or modify thetense of a given sentence,
things like that.
So there's some pretty, prettywide variation, but also useful.
(25:15):
This is one of the things that Ihave struggled with a number of
academic papers on is yes,that's a great example for a
test case, but that's not what,yeah, that's what an engineer
might use.
That's not what a layperson,yeah, or somebody doing
marketing or somebody doing,rewriting the email to their
boss, whatever that stuff, Ifeel like.
(25:37):
One, it's a much longer prompt,but also two, it's often a
conversation.
And that's when I'm like, okay,I want to test that length of
prompt with these techniques.
And does it make a difference?
Yeah.
What problems do you wish youcould solve with generative AI
of any kind?
So it doesn't even, images,video, text, whatever.
(26:00):
But that, that you have not beenable to yet.
Eldad (26:03):
Ooh.
I think my biggest challengeright now as I'm putting into,
the word context first, it, thebiggest challenge for me right
now is.
I've come out of a performancemarketing background, right?
Be it in house with some, lovelycompanies or agencies.
You are normally in thatcapacity given the assets,
(26:26):
right?
Now for a lot of my clients Ihave to generate them.
And I'm fairly creative, thatability to go from, okay, here's
what, the strategic to thewritten or the visual is really
the harder part.
I'd like to find a faster wayto, to get to that.
The other part, knowing howmarketing works is all the
(26:47):
variations.
And I'll give you a stupid one,that exists in display
advertising, right?
You have all the differentbanner sizes.
Same thing.
It'd be great if you could justsay, okay, here's my image
generated in 300 by 600, 1200by, whatever, all the, boom.
And there are programs that cando that.
Like Adobe has something there,for that.
So it'd be great if AI could,instantly make that happen.
(27:08):
But then at the same time, Also,say, okay, I've got my blog
posts generate, now don't justgenerate my LinkedIn post about
it.
Where's my carousel.
Where's my, and that's the stuffthat I'd like it to be able to
do, and faster.
Cause right now you're stilltying together multiple tools.
(27:29):
Or prompts, even to try to doit.
And, you lose a look and feeland, those kind of aspects
Overdub (27:37):
Greg
Yeah.
Canva just released somethingthat can do a little bit of
that.
You have a horizontal banner,resize it to be vertical or
resize it into an Instagramsquare.
Yeah.
Eldad (27:48):
Canva actually stuff.
Yeah, Canva does that one prettywell.
If you think that, for when youget into display advertising you
have so many different sizes andyou don't really need all of'em.
There's about six that youreally need, but to just, have
that redone.
And because they're so radicallydifferent, those six, you have
to look where the text is andjust the line.
You know how, That's the partthat, if AI could do that, man,
(28:11):
that would save people time, cutsome people jobs too.
But yeah, they can go designsome better things than just,
Overdub (28:20):
Greg
Yes.
Yeah.
I'm trying to find it.
Oh, cast magic.
That's what it is.
Cast magic.
io does a little bit of whatyou're describing.
Cause it'll do.
I'm trying to see if I can findwhere their demo is but it'll
take your, so it's obviously foraudio.
(28:40):
So we use it a little bit withthe podcasts and it'll basically
like generate tweets and somesocial posts directly from the
audio transcript.
Like it'll transcribe the audioand then just say, okay, here's
a bunch of tweets.
Here's a bunch of I don'tactually know if it does
Instagram, but I know it doesTwitter and LinkedIn
(29:02):
specifically.
Not saying that, it's the mostamazing thing ever, but like it,
it does a little bit of whatyou're talking about, but
actually it's interesting.
It doesn't do, linkedincarousels.
I guess in some ways, this isokay, this is like half the
step.
Yeah.
Okay.
So it's saying Twitter ready topublish threads, LinkedIn posts
(29:23):
optimized for engagement andcontent for short form clips.
But what would I think the stepI would at least want, and maybe
you would is okay, don't justgive me the text for the
LinkedIn post.
Give me the actual Images as acarousel that I can just, yeah,
and then also be able to tweakthe text or maybe even chat with
it and be like, that's terrible.
(29:45):
That's totally the wrong thingto do,
Eldad (29:46):
The plethora of stuff coming out, right?
It's just too fast.
If somebody could create a AIthat would create the LinkedIn
and Facebook carousels.
That would sell quickly, ma'am,because to be able to say here,
I want to do five slides orseven, on this and have it
produced because you're stilldoing each one one by one in
(30:09):
Canva.
In many respects, at least fromwhat I'm seeing, I've yet to
find a faster way to do it.
Overdub (30:16):
Greg
I wonder if Canva, because that,part of their release was that
approach of will generatemultiple images for you, which
I've only played with it alittle bit.
Yeah, I wonder if you can do,I'm just going to try this
really quick.
LinkedIn carousel out.
They
Eldad (30:33):
give you a template marketers, they give you
templates.
But I've, and even when youclick into them, you still only
get one page.
Of the template.
Here's what, you still have tothen click to generate the other
carousel slides.
I have seen somebody who isselling a product that's, called
the virtual AI agency, and itwill generate a lot of your
(30:53):
advertising assets for you.
I've yet to play with that one.
But, and if you look at it, ifyou type in Google Virtual AI
Agency, it doesn't pop up.
So I'll try to find the link andshare it with you after.
Overdub (31:06):
Greg
This has been fun.
Now it's a real
Eldad (31:10):
pleasure.
Thank you for having me.
Thanks for coming to the promptengineering podcasts podcast
dedicated helping you be abetter prompt engineer Episodes
are released every Wednesday Ialso host weekly masterminds
where you can collaborate withme and 50 other people live on
zoom to improve your promptsJoin us at
(31:31):
promptengineeringmastermind.
com for the schedule of theupcoming masterminds.
Finally, please remember to likeand subscribe.
If you're listening to the audiopodcast, rate us five stars.
That helps us teach more people.
And if you're listening to thepodcast, you might want to join
us on YouTube so you canactually see the prompts.
You can do that by going toyoutube.
(31:52):
com slash at prompt engineeringpodcast.
See you next week.
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