July 9, 2025 • 31 mins
Tariffs, Trade, and Triage: Keeping Healthcare Supplied in Unpredictable Times
In this episode, Karen speaks with Christine Donaldson, President and CEO of HealthPro Canada, and Derek Spinney, Chief Financial Officer and Vice President of Corporate Services at Nova Scotia Health, about the delicate balancing act of healthcare procurement.
From navigating on-again, off-again tariffs - or tariff threats - to managing Canada’s reliance on American-made medical supplies, Christine and Derek reveal the behind-the-scenes decisions that protect patient care, and explore how HealthPro Canada is working to build a more resilient, transparent supply chain—and what provincial health systems, like Nova Scotia Health, are doing to stay one step ahead.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to Chats on Change, a Nova Scotia Health
podcast with your host, interim CEO Karen Oldfield.
Hi everyone, and welcome to Chats on Change.
This is Nova Scotia Health's podcast where we have thoughtful
conversations with the people who are leading the way to
positive change in our healthcare.
And I'm Karen Oldfield, Interim CEO of Nova Scotia Health.
(00:23):
Today, I have two guests. I have Christine Donaldson, who
is the president and CEO of Healthpro.
Welcome, Christine. Hello.
You're, you're, you're coming infrom Winnipeg this morning, so
you're a little earlier than we are, but it's a good, good place
to start a Monday. Christine is is CEO of
(00:44):
Healthpro, which is Canada's largest healthcare procurement
organization. Healthpro works with members,
suppliers, industry associationsand all levels of government to
advance patient safety and healthcare supply change chain
sustainability and assurance. So welcome Christine.
Look forward to the conversationtoday.
(01:06):
And I also have with us Derek Spinney and that is Nova Scotia
Health's CFO and Vice President of Corporate Services.
So Derek joined Nova Scotia Health in October 2018, what a
great time, pandemic time as theSenior Director of Finance and
he brings more than 20 years experience to the organization.
(01:28):
And Derek's portfolio is big andincludes finance, information
technology, nutrition and food services, facilities and supply
chain. So he's busy and I know that you
2 know each other quite well. So welcome, Derek.
(01:48):
We thought this would be an interesting topic just in light
of tariffs, all things tariffs. We have spent the last month,
six weeks talking about tariffs.And from time to time the media
will ask us, well, how does thatimpact healthcare?
So we're going to get into that.But perhaps first, Christine,
you could kind of introduce Health Pro to, to our, our
(02:10):
audience. So what do you do?
How many members? What's it all about?
Thank you. So help from Canada is first and
foremost a Canadian company and we provide services to over 2000
healthcare facilities across thecountry.
Essentially what we do is provide the medications,
(02:31):
essential medical supplies and all of the services that you
need to provide that excellent patient care.
And we put those tools in the hands of frontline clinicians.
We represent the 8 provinces, 2 territories and all of our many,
many different avenues that we provide access to care.
(02:53):
So it's important that we also, you know, get into that a bit
today, that one of our objects is to always expand that reach
to make sure that everyone, no matter where you live and what
your postal code is, has access to excellent high quality
products and services. So in a way you are a
procurement arm for Nova Scotia Health as one member, but other
(03:14):
members who are part of your organization.
So, so it, it would be healthcare systems like Nova
Scotia Health, but it could, it could be anything really any,
any of your, it's not just a hospital, it's, it could be a
nursing home, I suppose. Or that's right.
You're you're It's soup to nuts.That's right.
And in fact, we're trying to expand into paramedic services,
(03:37):
as you said, nursing homes, someof our Indigenous communities
that have different levels of care and how they deliver care
and the far reaches of the provinces.
So as you said, we essentially put those high quality best
price contracts in place for allof our members to draw from and
to, you know, essentially pick and choose what they need to
(03:58):
provide care to their patients. Great.
Thanks. So, so Derek, what, what's the
nature of our, I guess procurement policies or not
policies, but what do we buy through Health Pro?
Yeah. That's a great question.
Thank you. I like to think that Health Pro
and this analogy will eventuallybreak down, but they're like our
Costco and so we're able to use them as a group purchasing
(04:22):
organization for us. So the value for us in Nova
Scotians is extreme. So you can imagine that our
buying power in Nova Scotia is very different than Ontario.
So what we're able to do is to be a member of Healthpro and get
that national buying power. It's.
Exactly like Costco. 100% and only.
Better only better, right? That's right.
(04:44):
Although there is a membership fee and it just went down too.
So it is very much like Costco and it is very customizable.
And so I know we're going to talk about that a little bit
today about innovation because Idon't think we have any
conversation without talking about innovation.
And so Christine can speak to that in a little bit, but we
also have the ability to work with Healthpro to see if there
(05:05):
isn't something on the shelf, soto speak, that we are interested
in. We can come forward and say,
hey, we're really trying to lower our cataract wait list,
for instance, and lenses are a large cost for us.
We don't see them on the menu. Could you do something like
that? They then pull all the members.
And this is a true story. Alberta would have brought that
(05:26):
forward. We partnered with Alberta and
other provinces. It's now on the menu, so to
speak. And now we're leading the
country with cataracts. That's a definitely a question I
want to get into. How do we, you know, how do we
get things on the menu, so to speak?
So don't let me forget that. But before we get into that, so
you know, just the sense of the kinds of things.
(05:46):
So clinical, Derek, what are we buying clinical through, through
Healthpro example? So we spend about $200 million a
year that's going. To be a question.
So it's a big truck. That's a big truck pulling up to
Costco. That's actually.
Many trucks. That's right.
Of that 200 million, about 65,000,000 would be generic
drugs, so propofol and those sorts of drugs, Oxycontin, those
(06:13):
sorts of things. And we may end up talking about
them a little bit more too, because we have a large reliance
on the US at times for pharmaceuticals.
So that'll be part of the conversation.
And we also would buy medical equipment as another example.
Like what hospital beds? Hospital beds for sure, and
defibrillators scopes. We also end up buying a lot of
(06:35):
our orthopedics from there, so literally hips and knees would
be on that menu. Too.
What about on the nutrition sideof the house?
Nutrition. Food, yeah.
Absolutely. So we spend at Nova Scotia
Health, we spend about $21 million a year on food for
patients. We we serve about 10, 1000 meals
a day. Of that 21 million, about 22% is
(06:57):
local. That can be a topic too.
But we also spend about $10 million through Health Pro on
food for the 10,000 meals a day that we're making here in Nova
Scotia. OK, great.
So that's a set. So you, you we basically have a
very wide buy through through Health Pro anything we haven't
mentioned there, Christine, thatcomes to your mind?
(07:19):
Well, thank you for such a greatlist that you provided.
But I think you're right. That is exactly we want to hear
from you as far as all the essential goods that you need to
to, to answer the needs of your patients.
And it's funny that you brought up propofol, Derek.
Of course, we can't forget aboutthose experiences that we went
through, you know, the difficulttime five years ago during the
pandemic. And I can remember working with
(07:41):
one of our global suppliers to, you know, doing my sort of happy
dance in the backyard of my, of my house because we had just
found out that we were getting an additional shipment coming
from overseas. Because as you know, that was
one of the very important and critical drugs that we used
during that desperate time. And it, it really does speak to
(08:02):
the need of, of our global supply chain.
And that is something I think wedo need to talk about that while
we are getting stronger and stronger in our Canadian
footprint, we do have tremendousdependencies on both our global
partners and of course those to the South of us.
So that's a hot topic of, of theday.
Well. We might as well jump into that.
So, so we have Canadian suppliers, we have global
(08:24):
suppliers and we have suppliers up at the border.
And of course this is you can't go anywhere right now without
talking tariffs and trade. And so I guess the first
question is, you know, what is our reliance, Derek on American
products and, and you know, the,the key would be to provide
(08:46):
continuous, uninterrupted care. And then the second question,
which would be to you, Christine, regardless of what
we're doing here in Nova Scotia,how, how does this show up for
health, health Pro Canada acrossacross the board?
So we'll go to you first, Derek.What are we buying from the
States? About what?
How much, I guess, how much of what?
Yeah. So these are national averages,
(09:08):
but Nova Scotia wouldn't be all that dissimilar.
So the largest two would probably be pharmaceuticals and
medical equipment. And so those 30% of the imports
in Canada for pharmaceuticals originated from the US and about
40% of medical equipment. However, and now I'm going to
start to get into a bit of what Christine and Healthpro are
doing, of course. Let her talk about her, and you
(09:31):
talk about us. Yeah.
So one of the things what, so when we raised that, we say, uh
oh, you know, we, we potentiallyhave a challenge here.
So one of the strategies and benefits of relying on Healthpro
is that Healthpro can then go through all their contracts.
There's about 3000 contracts available to us.
We participate in about 2800 of them on the.
So-called menu. On the menu, so there's 2800.
(09:53):
So you can imagine the work, theeffort that we and Nova Scotia
would have to undertake to go through that.
They've gone through that and they've determined what reliance
do we have on what parts of the global supply chain and they
start to make decisions like risk based decisions around if
they're, if it's only AUS then obviously that goes to the top.
(10:15):
But often times we'll find that it isn't only US, there may be
two or three vendors. And so how can we make sure that
we've got easy access to the twoor three and actually have real
conversations with those suppliers to say, are you going
to be able to withstand this, what are you doing?
And at the same time, domestically, what can we do to
lower our reliance on them? Yeah, OK.
Thanks. And then Christine, how does
(10:36):
that translate into your shop and nationally, how are you
faring vis a vis the tariff wars?
Yeah, it is definitely an interesting time and our goal
right now is as you said to you know, ensure that no patient
care or there's not an impact topatient care.
(10:57):
However, we do have a strong dependencies on our procurement
through the US. So what we're trying to do right
now is identify those at risk products.
And So what we've done is, you know, we've surveyed all of our
top suppliers in each of the categories, the categories you
just listed off Derek for us, everything from nutrition to
clinical supplies and pharmaceuticals and Aster, you
(11:17):
know our partners. And this is that, you know, deep
relationship we have with our suppliers to identify parts of
their supply chain that may not be evident to us.
And that is one thing I think isgoing to be a lesson learned
from this whole experience is tohave that deeper and more
transparent understanding of ourour comp very complex supply
(11:40):
chain. So what are our critical
vulnerabilities? You know, we are seeing some
just for the initial response that we did get back.
And again, this is over about I think it was about a billion
dollars in spend that we received some the survey back
just at the end of the month. And So what that does is it
tells us where can we now look for other alternatives and
that's what the the heavy lift that we're going into right now.
(12:02):
Is it a multi supplier? Do we have a Canadian
alternative? Is there another product that we
can offer as as a switch for again that same level of patient
care And it's everything from you know, oral enteral nutrition
into infusion tubing. We're looking at some of our lab
supplies defibrillators as as Derek just mentioned, you know,
(12:24):
38% of the the medical devices that we depend on in healthcare
come from the US. You know, it's over 5.2 billion
in spend over the state is a couple years out of date, but
that's that's approximately whatwe depend on the US for.
And so again the the implants, the orthopedics, some of our
critical oncology which is a cancer care medications are only
(12:47):
produced in the US. So one thing we have to really
carefully consider is as we're looking for alternatives, we
can't you know sort of shoot ourselves in the foot and say,
you know we're going to close the doors to US bids or vendors
in our upcoming round of contracts.
Forward-looking have be very intentional, very careful and
that's why we're working with our suppliers on a daily basis
(13:09):
to understand which of those products are most at risk.
Well, you know, another questionthat kind of comes into my mind
and this is based on previous work in this in global supply
chains. It's one thing as to where a, a,
(13:29):
a good or a product is manufactured where it's made and
it's another how it comes into North America.
So there's actually two different things.
And so, you know, that's a complexity to the supply chain
that actually Healthpro can can manipulate a little bit, right.
(13:53):
So, you know, most people don't think about that when they're
thinking about their supply chain.
Like it's one thing where it's made, it's another thing how it
comes in. And, and you as a, as a
purchaser, as a buyer, it's, it's important to understand,
you know, how far you can push to have the, the supply chain
(14:16):
work for you. So this is, this is, this is
regardless of where it's actually made or produced.
So I think that's, that's an important one too.
So if I could just flip that back.
So, Derek, you know, when it comes to supply chain, I mean,
obviously we're, we rely on the expertise and the leverage, the
(14:39):
power of working through health pro.
But you know, I would say the same thing for us too.
Like we have the ability as a, as a big buyer to we, we can use
our buying power and we need to make sure that we understand our
supply chain very intimately to know where we can push and
(14:59):
where, where, you know, we can make some changes.
So how would you view that? Yes, absolutely.
One of the things that we saw most recently is that we've
released an RFP for the master planning for the central zone,
for our facilities for instance.And so in there, we have made
the statement that the province reserves the right to exempt
(15:21):
Trump, some suppliers from even bidding on it if there's unfair
tariffs being imposed upon the country.
And so this starts to show the response that we're seeing
straight across the country. And Christine can offer that
national perspective. But here in Nova Scotia, we are
working through our procurement office, Chris Mitchell and team
to get a policy around that. But it's also based, as you also
(15:45):
said, Karen, that patients won'tsuffer because of this.
If it has to be a certain way itit will be.
But we will be doing everything in our power to make sure that
there are alternatives, including the local.
Perspective, it's so interestingbecause you know, like I'm
having so many flashbacks here to previous lives and and you
(16:06):
know, I, I'm a very strong advocate that supply chain is
part of your strategy, OK. And it is for exactly this
reason, exactly this reason. So you cannot put all your eggs
in one basket. It's just not a it's not, you
know, smarting. And so here we are.
(16:27):
So I'm really glad to hear your response, Derek, and the way
you're thinking about it, Christine.
And if I. Can just, if I can just add, you
know that multi supplier contracts is so critical here.
It's you know, we want diversityin our supply chain and you know
I'm happy to report that most ofour contracts do have three to
four, well three to five actually suppliers on contract
(16:49):
for the exact same product. And these have been pre
qualified vetted by our clinicalexperts.
We have team members that are pharmacists, nurses, etcetera.
And we work with very important advisory committees across the
country to do exactly that, to make sure that we have those
products that are equivalent so that you have choice.
And that's that's really important.
So that actually brings me to, you know, a very topical
(17:11):
question for me today, which is one of the first emails I
received today was from owner ofa New Brunswick company and they
produce wound care pressure wound boots.
And you know, I, I don't want toget into all the details, but
(17:34):
but the question is, how would acompany, all things being equal,
you know, that it's, it's same quality, same everything as
perhaps the US supplier or maybeeven a European supplier,
wherever. How would a company like that
flash up on your radar screen, Christine?
Yes, we have an innovator accelerated program.
(17:57):
So this is if you give me the name of that individual, I can
we have my team each. Other and I'm sure we're gonna
be thrilled too, right I. Will and and the goal is to, as
you say, always have that open door for for new innovative
products to compete in our market.
It makes it healthier. Competition is a healthy thing
in our marketplace, particularlywhen you have a Canadian made
(18:20):
opportunity. And then our goal is to scope,
you know, it's all about scope and scale.
We want to help boost and maybe get that footprint or even
locally or within one province and then help grow.
And so we have a team member that actually have a team that's
on the innovation portfolio and that's what they do.
They help usher in those new Canadian made suppliers.
Just give them a, a little bit of the, you know, one-on-one of
(18:42):
how you get into the marketplacesometimes what it takes, how to,
you know, make those contacts. We do webinars to help, you
know, spread that news with all of our members across the
country. And, you know, and nothing, I
get more my, more my heart more than to hear of, you know, one
of those innovators really starting to get traction and to
make a difference because as youknow, our healthcare system is
(19:04):
slow to change. Again, I have a clinical bracket
on myself and I've, I've watchedit, you know, it, it's, it's the
machine of, of change is, is a slow moving 1.
And so the more we can help boost that, that first even
that, you know, here's here's who I am, here's what I do,
here's some of the options I provide that just sometimes is
enough to, to start, start things in motion.
(19:27):
And so that's what our group does.
Again, it's all back to the site, the, the province, the,
the region clinical experts, youknow, it's their choice, but we
want to make sure they're fully informed.
So our big part is almost opening those doors, providing
that education. That's great.
So we'll make sure that we put the the link to your accelerator
(19:47):
program and some of the other useful information for for those
who might be interested because so it's kind of jumps to two
other questions. 1 is how How isit that the work of your
innovation group? Can or is or should be working
with our innovation hub, for example.
(20:10):
And then secondly, how do you interact with CAN Health, which
is doing a little bit of the same thing, maybe not quite the
same. So I'm just wondering how
everything fits together in yourmind.
Yeah. And thank you.
I would have the fortune opportunity to tour your your
innovation hub and just to see it in action.
And, you know, that is one of our goals to partner or to help
(20:31):
share that information between those, you know, pockets of
innovation that are happening indifferent regions and provinces.
So in fact, we're hosting an innovation roundtable at in, in
Calgary in a couple months to doexactly that, to, to bring
together those that brain trust and to, to help, you know,
(20:51):
spread some of that, you know, innovative thinking.
Our goal, as you said, is to, tobe that convener or, you know,
to help ignite those stakeholders who work together
and to, to provide some of thosefoundational, you know,
aspirations. Or perhaps in a perfect world
have the business case or the model that worked well for for
them in regionally or provincially to then again share
(21:14):
and spread and basically take itand run with it.
Your second question was about Can Health.
And yes, we have been talking with them.
We have an agreement in place with Can Health.
As you know, they're usually thespark.
They're the ones that the the original innovators go to, to
say, I'm here, here's what I have to offer.
And then our partnership hopefully help roll it out
exactly to help again. So bring that, bring that to
(21:35):
market. Step 2 perfect.
Just I think that's really helpful for people.
I mean, you know, it's always confusing for the innovator
particularly or the researcher like where do I even start?
And there's, you know, it's sometimes could be a big bowl of
spaghetti and they just don't know what Step 1.
So that's, that's great. And thank you for elaborating.
Any thoughts, Derek, in additionto that?
(21:59):
I think that the connections that start here in Nova Scotia
through the Hub can then quicklyliterally go coast to coast to
coast across Canada using our partnerships like Health Pro.
So as Christine mentioned, they've toured the hub and
looking forward to partnering with us in that.
And as things come forward, whenwe want to be able to quickly
(22:22):
and easily get national access to buyers, we can do that
through Health Pro and their program.
So we're going to have folks at that conference.
She mentioned seeing how others are doing it across the country,
but it very quickly, as the namesuggests, becomes an accelerator
for folks in Nova Scotia can quickly get coast to coast to
coast through these large partnerships that's.
(22:43):
Great. Christine, I'm wondering what
you know in the work that you just described particularly
around the innovation, but but doesn't have to be new or a new
product. It could be something that's,
you know, struggled to get scaleacross the country.
So what I'm thinking in particular is our
(23:07):
intraprovincial trade barriers. So, you know, again, that's been
in the news quite a bit lately and our own premier has been
waving the flag to knock them down.
Is this something that has Hanford progress from your
perspective or not a not an issue at all?
(23:27):
Yeah, I think it is an issue. I think we have a tremendous
opportunity here to rethink how we work.
You know, as you said, between the provinces, between those, as
you call them, barriers. Why do they exist?
What were they meant to do to, to, to create these different
almost criteria or qualifications to again make it
much more complicated or sometimes more complex than it
(23:48):
needs to be. We've seen that in health, human
resources, we've seen it in, in so many aspects.
And and again, I think we could start to really have a a very
different conversation. I know I was fortunate to be in
a round table with the federal, the new federal Minister of
Health, Minister Cara, And I think you've had the opportunity
(24:09):
probably as well with Minister Holland in the past just to talk
about we can have some national presence here.
We can have an opportunity to, as you said, work in a more
streamlined fashion. And again, keep we, we have had
some great examples of sustainability and doing the
same thing. How can we have the same kinds
of questions and needs and opportunities identified to our
(24:32):
suppliers who are often global or many at least national.
And then they, they can understand what, what those,
those hoops they have to go through rather than having to do
something disparate from, you know, as they move coast to
coast. So I, I do think there's,
there's a huge opportunity for us to, to open that, you know,
open that conversation. And I'm really looking a little
(24:53):
bit towards our federal colleagues to say, how can
either Health Canada or some of our our federal ministers
really, you know, create that platform for change?
I totally agree. And you know, everybody can only
do their bit and then you do need leadership.
So I'm, I'm really happy that our premiers definitely, this is
definitely flashed on his radar screen.
(25:16):
And in turn, you know, our deputy Minister of Health as
well as our deputy who handles procurement in the province.
We've already discussed this andwe are already looking at our
internal regulatory issues or policy issues that so we can get
(25:37):
an early start on taking those walls down.
So, you know, if we can help to lead the way, believe me, we we
want to and it's, it really doescome back to leadership and
focus. So we have a, we have a leader
who's who wants to go in this direction and now the team's got
to focus to get it done. So that's kind of where we are.
(25:58):
I'll often use Nova Scotia, I'llbe honest, as an example of a
province that acts centrally, works together, has a very
focused approach. And I think, you know, you
really do shine in that way. And of course, when you work
with your Atlantic partners evenmore so, you know, you band
together, you, you, you're equivalent to one of the larger
(26:19):
provinces out in the West as faras your, your, your, your buying
power and everything. So I think it's really important
that you continue to, you know, again centralized that, that
that focus of of course we've seen it in the procurement side
time and again where you know you, you can see with clarity
what is happening across your province.
(26:39):
And I think that really helps inform us when we're making our
decisions. Well, that's good to hear.
And you know, I, I'm, I'm reallyhappy about the progress that
we're making on the on the tradeside.
Like I know what like we can only control so much, but but
what we can control, we are actively working to take the
barriers down. And then secondly, we have, I've
been really, really happy that the other Atlantic CE OS have
(27:03):
come together several times and we're coming together again in
May procurement will be on the table again because together we
can really make quite a difference.
I mean, this is this is a rocketscience, but it sure is hard to
do, you know, to get everybody on the same page and to make
(27:24):
sure that everybody feels supported and part of, you know,
part of the change. So we're working hard to do that
and you've been a great partner in taking us forward there.
So I really appreciate it. So I'm going to go to closing
thoughts. Derek, you're looking at a
spreadsheet and you are a numbers guy.
So I don't know if you have any more numbers or or closing
(27:45):
thoughts that you would like to share, but you know it's an
important partnership. This is an important topic.
So your final thoughts and then I'll I'll come to you,
Christine. Maybe I'll start with the the
human aspect to move into the numbers, but it really does
touch everybody every day in ourhealth system and it only takes
a day without your order coming in to figure that out pretty
(28:06):
quick. And so here in Nova Scotia, one
of the things that we talked about is the sheer volume that
we send across the province. So we are one a health authority
for the entire system. So every single day at our
warehouses, we are pick pack andshipping 4000 orders across the
province. We send 318 Wheelers a day
(28:26):
across the bridge over here to the QE 2/1 location, for
instance. And so you can just imagine if
there's a disruption in that, what that would do to patient
care. It it would be ginormous.
It would be ginormous. Exactly.
And so as we're doing that, to be able to partner with
Healthpro so that we don't have to have all the people that they
(28:48):
do creating multi vendor contracts because that's one of
your strategies to make sure that you're not dependent on one
person. And to get that buying power and
expertise really helps ensure that Nova Scotia is really are
at the national table. I'm actually on the board with
Christine of Healthpro. And so we really do get to see
what's going on coast to coast to coast.
(29:09):
And we are actually making an impact in that, whether it be
through the hub or our voices that are coming together.
So thank you. Thanks Derek.
That's good to hear and good foreverybody to learn a little bit
more about South. Same to you Christine.
Last thoughts for you know the the notion of procurement, US
tariffs, global supply chain, basically your raison d'etre,
(29:33):
what you're there to do. And as you said, you know, at
the beginning and, and Derek, thank you for that.
You know, overall, we are a national group.
We are Team Canada and in this very interesting economic time,
you know, so our focus is on protecting Canadians, you know,
our healthcare system and the national interests that are at
stake right now. You know, so while we stand with
the government as as we do for the US, tariffs cannot go
(29:55):
unanswered at this point. We really are advocating very
strongly that we cannot afford to have another pandemic like
crisis where medications and supplies and critical services
are at risk and that puts patients at risk.
So, you know, at this time we're, we're still working hard
for, you know, that that voice to be heard.
We're looking at over 200,000 line items right now as as far
(30:18):
as that at risk or US dependencyto see where and we're looking
for tariff free routes right now.
That was one thing I really wanted to talk about.
There may be opportunities for us working with partners like
GS1 to identify country of origin, country of export, place
of manufacture. These are things that we're
starting to get a bit more robust into the data.
So that was my final thought. You know, in a perfect world, we
(30:40):
should have much more integration of our data set.
But one thing is we have, we've been in business for over 25
years, almost 30 years actually,our anniversaries next next
year. And we have, we're data rich.
We have, you know, years and years of data for all of our
provinces that we were so responsible.
We've been a partner with Nova Scotia since 20/20/11.
(31:02):
And so we can now take some of that power and harness the power
of our data and hopefully have an opportunity now to work with
that data to do some predictive analytics to really dive into
how we can make a change and our, as you said, our global
supply chain going forward. So that's something that we're,
it's a, it's a challenging time,but it's also an exciting time
for us to rethink how we your business.
(31:24):
Well, and that's what this podcast is all about, right?
Chats unchanged. So you're, you're you're head,
you're leading. And I'm really happy that we're
we're good partners. So really appreciate you taking
the time this morning. I know you're calling in from
Winnipeg, so have a great day. Thanks for calling in and Derek,
thanks for coming upstairs and having the chat.
(31:44):
Thank you so much. Great conversation.
Yeah, you too. Bye now.
Bye.
Hello and welcome to Chats on Change, a Nova Scotia Health
podcast with your host, interim CEO Karen Oldfield.
Hi everyone, and welcome to Chats on Change.
This is Nova Scotia Health's podcast where we have thoughtful
conversations with the people who are leading the way to
positive change in our healthcare.
And I'm Karen Oldfield, Interim CEO of Nova Scotia Health.
(00:23):
Today, I have two guests. I have Christine Donaldson, who
is the president and CEO of Healthpro.
Welcome, Christine. Hello.
You're, you're, you're coming infrom Winnipeg this morning, so
you're a little earlier than we are, but it's a good, good place
to start a Monday. Christine is is CEO of
(00:44):
Healthpro, which is Canada's largest healthcare procurement
organization. Healthpro works with members,
suppliers, industry associationsand all levels of government to
advance patient safety and healthcare supply change chain
sustainability and assurance. So welcome Christine.
Look forward to the conversationtoday.
(01:06):
And I also have with us Derek Spinney and that is Nova Scotia
Health's CFO and Vice President of Corporate Services.
So Derek joined Nova Scotia Health in October 2018, what a
great time, pandemic time as theSenior Director of Finance and
he brings more than 20 years experience to the organization.
(01:28):
And Derek's portfolio is big andincludes finance, information
technology, nutrition and food services, facilities and supply
chain. So he's busy and I know that you
2 know each other quite well. So welcome, Derek.
(01:48):
We thought this would be an interesting topic just in light
of tariffs, all things tariffs. We have spent the last month,
six weeks talking about tariffs.And from time to time the media
will ask us, well, how does thatimpact healthcare?
So we're going to get into that.But perhaps first, Christine,
you could kind of introduce Health Pro to, to our, our
(02:10):
audience. So what do you do?
How many members? What's it all about?
Thank you. So help from Canada is first and
foremost a Canadian company and we provide services to over 2000
healthcare facilities across thecountry.
Essentially what we do is provide the medications,
(02:31):
essential medical supplies and all of the services that you
need to provide that excellent patient care.
And we put those tools in the hands of frontline clinicians.
We represent the 8 provinces, 2 territories and all of our many,
many different avenues that we provide access to care.
(02:53):
So it's important that we also, you know, get into that a bit
today, that one of our objects is to always expand that reach
to make sure that everyone, no matter where you live and what
your postal code is, has access to excellent high quality
products and services. So in a way you are a
procurement arm for Nova Scotia Health as one member, but other
(03:14):
members who are part of your organization.
So, so it, it would be healthcare systems like Nova
Scotia Health, but it could, it could be anything really any,
any of your, it's not just a hospital, it's, it could be a
nursing home, I suppose. Or that's right.
You're you're It's soup to nuts.That's right.
And in fact, we're trying to expand into paramedic services,
(03:37):
as you said, nursing homes, someof our Indigenous communities
that have different levels of care and how they deliver care
and the far reaches of the provinces.
So as you said, we essentially put those high quality best
price contracts in place for allof our members to draw from and
to, you know, essentially pick and choose what they need to
(03:58):
provide care to their patients. Great.
Thanks. So, so Derek, what, what's the
nature of our, I guess procurement policies or not
policies, but what do we buy through Health Pro?
Yeah. That's a great question.
Thank you. I like to think that Health Pro
and this analogy will eventuallybreak down, but they're like our
Costco and so we're able to use them as a group purchasing
(04:22):
organization for us. So the value for us in Nova
Scotians is extreme. So you can imagine that our
buying power in Nova Scotia is very different than Ontario.
So what we're able to do is to be a member of Healthpro and get
that national buying power. It's.
Exactly like Costco. 100% and only.
Better only better, right? That's right.
(04:44):
Although there is a membership fee and it just went down too.
So it is very much like Costco and it is very customizable.
And so I know we're going to talk about that a little bit
today about innovation because Idon't think we have any
conversation without talking about innovation.
And so Christine can speak to that in a little bit, but we
also have the ability to work with Healthpro to see if there
(05:05):
isn't something on the shelf, soto speak, that we are interested
in. We can come forward and say,
hey, we're really trying to lower our cataract wait list,
for instance, and lenses are a large cost for us.
We don't see them on the menu. Could you do something like
that? They then pull all the members.
And this is a true story. Alberta would have brought that
(05:26):
forward. We partnered with Alberta and
other provinces. It's now on the menu, so to
speak. And now we're leading the
country with cataracts. That's a definitely a question I
want to get into. How do we, you know, how do we
get things on the menu, so to speak?
So don't let me forget that. But before we get into that, so
you know, just the sense of the kinds of things.
(05:46):
So clinical, Derek, what are we buying clinical through, through
Healthpro example? So we spend about $200 million a
year that's going. To be a question.
So it's a big truck. That's a big truck pulling up to
Costco. That's actually.
Many trucks. That's right.
Of that 200 million, about 65,000,000 would be generic
drugs, so propofol and those sorts of drugs, Oxycontin, those
(06:13):
sorts of things. And we may end up talking about
them a little bit more too, because we have a large reliance
on the US at times for pharmaceuticals.
So that'll be part of the conversation.
And we also would buy medical equipment as another example.
Like what hospital beds? Hospital beds for sure, and
defibrillators scopes. We also end up buying a lot of
(06:35):
our orthopedics from there, so literally hips and knees would
be on that menu. Too.
What about on the nutrition sideof the house?
Nutrition. Food, yeah.
Absolutely. So we spend at Nova Scotia
Health, we spend about $21 million a year on food for
patients. We we serve about 10, 1000 meals
a day. Of that 21 million, about 22% is
(06:57):
local. That can be a topic too.
But we also spend about $10 million through Health Pro on
food for the 10,000 meals a day that we're making here in Nova
Scotia. OK, great.
So that's a set. So you, you we basically have a
very wide buy through through Health Pro anything we haven't
mentioned there, Christine, thatcomes to your mind?
(07:19):
Well, thank you for such a greatlist that you provided.
But I think you're right. That is exactly we want to hear
from you as far as all the essential goods that you need to
to, to answer the needs of your patients.
And it's funny that you brought up propofol, Derek.
Of course, we can't forget aboutthose experiences that we went
through, you know, the difficulttime five years ago during the
pandemic. And I can remember working with
(07:41):
one of our global suppliers to, you know, doing my sort of happy
dance in the backyard of my, of my house because we had just
found out that we were getting an additional shipment coming
from overseas. Because as you know, that was
one of the very important and critical drugs that we used
during that desperate time. And it, it really does speak to
(08:02):
the need of, of our global supply chain.
And that is something I think wedo need to talk about that while
we are getting stronger and stronger in our Canadian
footprint, we do have tremendousdependencies on both our global
partners and of course those to the South of us.
So that's a hot topic of, of theday.
Well. We might as well jump into that.
So, so we have Canadian suppliers, we have global
(08:24):
suppliers and we have suppliers up at the border.
And of course this is you can't go anywhere right now without
talking tariffs and trade. And so I guess the first
question is, you know, what is our reliance, Derek on American
products and, and you know, the,the key would be to provide
(08:46):
continuous, uninterrupted care. And then the second question,
which would be to you, Christine, regardless of what
we're doing here in Nova Scotia,how, how does this show up for
health, health Pro Canada acrossacross the board?
So we'll go to you first, Derek.What are we buying from the
States? About what?
How much, I guess, how much of what?
Yeah. So these are national averages,
(09:08):
but Nova Scotia wouldn't be all that dissimilar.
So the largest two would probably be pharmaceuticals and
medical equipment. And so those 30% of the imports
in Canada for pharmaceuticals originated from the US and about
40% of medical equipment. However, and now I'm going to
start to get into a bit of what Christine and Healthpro are
doing, of course. Let her talk about her, and you
(09:31):
talk about us. Yeah.
So one of the things what, so when we raised that, we say, uh
oh, you know, we, we potentiallyhave a challenge here.
So one of the strategies and benefits of relying on Healthpro
is that Healthpro can then go through all their contracts.
There's about 3000 contracts available to us.
We participate in about 2800 of them on the.
So-called menu. On the menu, so there's 2800.
(09:53):
So you can imagine the work, theeffort that we and Nova Scotia
would have to undertake to go through that.
They've gone through that and they've determined what reliance
do we have on what parts of the global supply chain and they
start to make decisions like risk based decisions around if
they're, if it's only AUS then obviously that goes to the top.
(10:15):
But often times we'll find that it isn't only US, there may be
two or three vendors. And so how can we make sure that
we've got easy access to the twoor three and actually have real
conversations with those suppliers to say, are you going
to be able to withstand this, what are you doing?
And at the same time, domestically, what can we do to
lower our reliance on them? Yeah, OK.
Thanks. And then Christine, how does
(10:36):
that translate into your shop and nationally, how are you
faring vis a vis the tariff wars?
Yeah, it is definitely an interesting time and our goal
right now is as you said to you know, ensure that no patient
care or there's not an impact topatient care.
(10:57):
However, we do have a strong dependencies on our procurement
through the US. So what we're trying to do right
now is identify those at risk products.
And So what we've done is, you know, we've surveyed all of our
top suppliers in each of the categories, the categories you
just listed off Derek for us, everything from nutrition to
clinical supplies and pharmaceuticals and Aster, you
(11:17):
know our partners. And this is that, you know, deep
relationship we have with our suppliers to identify parts of
their supply chain that may not be evident to us.
And that is one thing I think isgoing to be a lesson learned
from this whole experience is tohave that deeper and more
transparent understanding of ourour comp very complex supply
(11:40):
chain. So what are our critical
vulnerabilities? You know, we are seeing some
just for the initial response that we did get back.
And again, this is over about I think it was about a billion
dollars in spend that we received some the survey back
just at the end of the month. And So what that does is it
tells us where can we now look for other alternatives and
that's what the the heavy lift that we're going into right now.
(12:02):
Is it a multi supplier? Do we have a Canadian
alternative? Is there another product that we
can offer as as a switch for again that same level of patient
care And it's everything from you know, oral enteral nutrition
into infusion tubing. We're looking at some of our lab
supplies defibrillators as as Derek just mentioned, you know,
(12:24):
38% of the the medical devices that we depend on in healthcare
come from the US. You know, it's over 5.2 billion
in spend over the state is a couple years out of date, but
that's that's approximately whatwe depend on the US for.
And so again the the implants, the orthopedics, some of our
critical oncology which is a cancer care medications are only
(12:47):
produced in the US. So one thing we have to really
carefully consider is as we're looking for alternatives, we
can't you know sort of shoot ourselves in the foot and say,
you know we're going to close the doors to US bids or vendors
in our upcoming round of contracts.
Forward-looking have be very intentional, very careful and
that's why we're working with our suppliers on a daily basis
(13:09):
to understand which of those products are most at risk.
Well, you know, another questionthat kind of comes into my mind
and this is based on previous work in this in global supply
chains. It's one thing as to where a, a,
(13:29):
a good or a product is manufactured where it's made and
it's another how it comes into North America.
So there's actually two different things.
And so, you know, that's a complexity to the supply chain
that actually Healthpro can can manipulate a little bit, right.
(13:53):
So, you know, most people don't think about that when they're
thinking about their supply chain.
Like it's one thing where it's made, it's another thing how it
comes in. And, and you as a, as a
purchaser, as a buyer, it's, it's important to understand,
you know, how far you can push to have the, the supply chain
(14:16):
work for you. So this is, this is, this is
regardless of where it's actually made or produced.
So I think that's, that's an important one too.
So if I could just flip that back.
So, Derek, you know, when it comes to supply chain, I mean,
obviously we're, we rely on the expertise and the leverage, the
(14:39):
power of working through health pro.
But you know, I would say the same thing for us too.
Like we have the ability as a, as a big buyer to we, we can use
our buying power and we need to make sure that we understand our
supply chain very intimately to know where we can push and
(14:59):
where, where, you know, we can make some changes.
So how would you view that? Yes, absolutely.
One of the things that we saw most recently is that we've
released an RFP for the master planning for the central zone,
for our facilities for instance.And so in there, we have made
the statement that the province reserves the right to exempt
(15:21):
Trump, some suppliers from even bidding on it if there's unfair
tariffs being imposed upon the country.
And so this starts to show the response that we're seeing
straight across the country. And Christine can offer that
national perspective. But here in Nova Scotia, we are
working through our procurement office, Chris Mitchell and team
to get a policy around that. But it's also based, as you also
(15:45):
said, Karen, that patients won'tsuffer because of this.
If it has to be a certain way itit will be.
But we will be doing everything in our power to make sure that
there are alternatives, including the local.
Perspective, it's so interestingbecause you know, like I'm
having so many flashbacks here to previous lives and and you
(16:06):
know, I, I'm a very strong advocate that supply chain is
part of your strategy, OK. And it is for exactly this
reason, exactly this reason. So you cannot put all your eggs
in one basket. It's just not a it's not, you
know, smarting. And so here we are.
(16:27):
So I'm really glad to hear your response, Derek, and the way
you're thinking about it, Christine.
And if I. Can just, if I can just add, you
know that multi supplier contracts is so critical here.
It's you know, we want diversityin our supply chain and you know
I'm happy to report that most ofour contracts do have three to
four, well three to five actually suppliers on contract
(16:49):
for the exact same product. And these have been pre
qualified vetted by our clinicalexperts.
We have team members that are pharmacists, nurses, etcetera.
And we work with very important advisory committees across the
country to do exactly that, to make sure that we have those
products that are equivalent so that you have choice.
And that's that's really important.
So that actually brings me to, you know, a very topical
(17:11):
question for me today, which is one of the first emails I
received today was from owner ofa New Brunswick company and they
produce wound care pressure wound boots.
And you know, I, I don't want toget into all the details, but
(17:34):
but the question is, how would acompany, all things being equal,
you know, that it's, it's same quality, same everything as
perhaps the US supplier or maybeeven a European supplier,
wherever. How would a company like that
flash up on your radar screen, Christine?
Yes, we have an innovator accelerated program.
(17:57):
So this is if you give me the name of that individual, I can
we have my team each. Other and I'm sure we're gonna
be thrilled too, right I. Will and and the goal is to, as
you say, always have that open door for for new innovative
products to compete in our market.
It makes it healthier. Competition is a healthy thing
in our marketplace, particularlywhen you have a Canadian made
(18:20):
opportunity. And then our goal is to scope,
you know, it's all about scope and scale.
We want to help boost and maybe get that footprint or even
locally or within one province and then help grow.
And so we have a team member that actually have a team that's
on the innovation portfolio and that's what they do.
They help usher in those new Canadian made suppliers.
Just give them a, a little bit of the, you know, one-on-one of
(18:42):
how you get into the marketplacesometimes what it takes, how to,
you know, make those contacts. We do webinars to help, you
know, spread that news with all of our members across the
country. And, you know, and nothing, I
get more my, more my heart more than to hear of, you know, one
of those innovators really starting to get traction and to
make a difference because as youknow, our healthcare system is
(19:04):
slow to change. Again, I have a clinical bracket
on myself and I've, I've watchedit, you know, it, it's, it's the
machine of, of change is, is a slow moving 1.
And so the more we can help boost that, that first even
that, you know, here's here's who I am, here's what I do,
here's some of the options I provide that just sometimes is
enough to, to start, start things in motion.
(19:27):
And so that's what our group does.
Again, it's all back to the site, the, the province, the,
the region clinical experts, youknow, it's their choice, but we
want to make sure they're fully informed.
So our big part is almost opening those doors, providing
that education. That's great.
So we'll make sure that we put the the link to your accelerator
(19:47):
program and some of the other useful information for for those
who might be interested because so it's kind of jumps to two
other questions. 1 is how How isit that the work of your
innovation group? Can or is or should be working
with our innovation hub, for example.
(20:10):
And then secondly, how do you interact with CAN Health, which
is doing a little bit of the same thing, maybe not quite the
same. So I'm just wondering how
everything fits together in yourmind.
Yeah. And thank you.
I would have the fortune opportunity to tour your your
innovation hub and just to see it in action.
And, you know, that is one of our goals to partner or to help
(20:31):
share that information between those, you know, pockets of
innovation that are happening indifferent regions and provinces.
So in fact, we're hosting an innovation roundtable at in, in
Calgary in a couple months to doexactly that, to, to bring
together those that brain trust and to, to help, you know,
(20:51):
spread some of that, you know, innovative thinking.
Our goal, as you said, is to, tobe that convener or, you know,
to help ignite those stakeholders who work together
and to, to provide some of thosefoundational, you know,
aspirations. Or perhaps in a perfect world
have the business case or the model that worked well for for
them in regionally or provincially to then again share
(21:14):
and spread and basically take itand run with it.
Your second question was about Can Health.
And yes, we have been talking with them.
We have an agreement in place with Can Health.
As you know, they're usually thespark.
They're the ones that the the original innovators go to, to
say, I'm here, here's what I have to offer.
And then our partnership hopefully help roll it out
exactly to help again. So bring that, bring that to
(21:35):
market. Step 2 perfect.
Just I think that's really helpful for people.
I mean, you know, it's always confusing for the innovator
particularly or the researcher like where do I even start?
And there's, you know, it's sometimes could be a big bowl of
spaghetti and they just don't know what Step 1.
So that's, that's great. And thank you for elaborating.
Any thoughts, Derek, in additionto that?
(21:59):
I think that the connections that start here in Nova Scotia
through the Hub can then quicklyliterally go coast to coast to
coast across Canada using our partnerships like Health Pro.
So as Christine mentioned, they've toured the hub and
looking forward to partnering with us in that.
And as things come forward, whenwe want to be able to quickly
(22:22):
and easily get national access to buyers, we can do that
through Health Pro and their program.
So we're going to have folks at that conference.
She mentioned seeing how others are doing it across the country,
but it very quickly, as the namesuggests, becomes an accelerator
for folks in Nova Scotia can quickly get coast to coast to
coast through these large partnerships that's.
(22:43):
Great. Christine, I'm wondering what
you know in the work that you just described particularly
around the innovation, but but doesn't have to be new or a new
product. It could be something that's,
you know, struggled to get scaleacross the country.
So what I'm thinking in particular is our
(23:07):
intraprovincial trade barriers. So, you know, again, that's been
in the news quite a bit lately and our own premier has been
waving the flag to knock them down.
Is this something that has Hanford progress from your
perspective or not a not an issue at all?
(23:27):
Yeah, I think it is an issue. I think we have a tremendous
opportunity here to rethink how we work.
You know, as you said, between the provinces, between those, as
you call them, barriers. Why do they exist?
What were they meant to do to, to, to create these different
almost criteria or qualifications to again make it
much more complicated or sometimes more complex than it
(23:48):
needs to be. We've seen that in health, human
resources, we've seen it in, in so many aspects.
And and again, I think we could start to really have a a very
different conversation. I know I was fortunate to be in
a round table with the federal, the new federal Minister of
Health, Minister Cara, And I think you've had the opportunity
(24:09):
probably as well with Minister Holland in the past just to talk
about we can have some national presence here.
We can have an opportunity to, as you said, work in a more
streamlined fashion. And again, keep we, we have had
some great examples of sustainability and doing the
same thing. How can we have the same kinds
of questions and needs and opportunities identified to our
(24:32):
suppliers who are often global or many at least national.
And then they, they can understand what, what those,
those hoops they have to go through rather than having to do
something disparate from, you know, as they move coast to
coast. So I, I do think there's,
there's a huge opportunity for us to, to open that, you know,
open that conversation. And I'm really looking a little
(24:53):
bit towards our federal colleagues to say, how can
either Health Canada or some of our our federal ministers
really, you know, create that platform for change?
I totally agree. And you know, everybody can only
do their bit and then you do need leadership.
So I'm, I'm really happy that our premiers definitely, this is
definitely flashed on his radar screen.
(25:16):
And in turn, you know, our deputy Minister of Health as
well as our deputy who handles procurement in the province.
We've already discussed this andwe are already looking at our
internal regulatory issues or policy issues that so we can get
(25:37):
an early start on taking those walls down.
So, you know, if we can help to lead the way, believe me, we we
want to and it's, it really doescome back to leadership and
focus. So we have a, we have a leader
who's who wants to go in this direction and now the team's got
to focus to get it done. So that's kind of where we are.
(25:58):
I'll often use Nova Scotia, I'llbe honest, as an example of a
province that acts centrally, works together, has a very
focused approach. And I think, you know, you
really do shine in that way. And of course, when you work
with your Atlantic partners evenmore so, you know, you band
together, you, you, you're equivalent to one of the larger
(26:19):
provinces out in the West as faras your, your, your, your buying
power and everything. So I think it's really important
that you continue to, you know, again centralized that, that
that focus of of course we've seen it in the procurement side
time and again where you know you, you can see with clarity
what is happening across your province.
(26:39):
And I think that really helps inform us when we're making our
decisions. Well, that's good to hear.
And you know, I, I'm, I'm reallyhappy about the progress that
we're making on the on the tradeside.
Like I know what like we can only control so much, but but
what we can control, we are actively working to take the
barriers down. And then secondly, we have, I've
been really, really happy that the other Atlantic CE OS have
(27:03):
come together several times and we're coming together again in
May procurement will be on the table again because together we
can really make quite a difference.
I mean, this is this is a rocketscience, but it sure is hard to
do, you know, to get everybody on the same page and to make
(27:24):
sure that everybody feels supported and part of, you know,
part of the change. So we're working hard to do that
and you've been a great partner in taking us forward there.
So I really appreciate it. So I'm going to go to closing
thoughts. Derek, you're looking at a
spreadsheet and you are a numbers guy.
So I don't know if you have any more numbers or or closing
(27:45):
thoughts that you would like to share, but you know it's an
important partnership. This is an important topic.
So your final thoughts and then I'll I'll come to you,
Christine. Maybe I'll start with the the
human aspect to move into the numbers, but it really does
touch everybody every day in ourhealth system and it only takes
a day without your order coming in to figure that out pretty
(28:06):
quick. And so here in Nova Scotia, one
of the things that we talked about is the sheer volume that
we send across the province. So we are one a health authority
for the entire system. So every single day at our
warehouses, we are pick pack andshipping 4000 orders across the
province. We send 318 Wheelers a day
(28:26):
across the bridge over here to the QE 2/1 location, for
instance. And so you can just imagine if
there's a disruption in that, what that would do to patient
care. It it would be ginormous.
It would be ginormous. Exactly.
And so as we're doing that, to be able to partner with
Healthpro so that we don't have to have all the people that they
(28:48):
do creating multi vendor contracts because that's one of
your strategies to make sure that you're not dependent on one
person. And to get that buying power and
expertise really helps ensure that Nova Scotia is really are
at the national table. I'm actually on the board with
Christine of Healthpro. And so we really do get to see
what's going on coast to coast to coast.
(29:09):
And we are actually making an impact in that, whether it be
through the hub or our voices that are coming together.
So thank you. Thanks Derek.
That's good to hear and good foreverybody to learn a little bit
more about South. Same to you Christine.
Last thoughts for you know the the notion of procurement, US
tariffs, global supply chain, basically your raison d'etre,
(29:33):
what you're there to do. And as you said, you know, at
the beginning and, and Derek, thank you for that.
You know, overall, we are a national group.
We are Team Canada and in this very interesting economic time,
you know, so our focus is on protecting Canadians, you know,
our healthcare system and the national interests that are at
stake right now. You know, so while we stand with
the government as as we do for the US, tariffs cannot go
(29:55):
unanswered at this point. We really are advocating very
strongly that we cannot afford to have another pandemic like
crisis where medications and supplies and critical services
are at risk and that puts patients at risk.
So, you know, at this time we're, we're still working hard
for, you know, that that voice to be heard.
We're looking at over 200,000 line items right now as as far
(30:18):
as that at risk or US dependencyto see where and we're looking
for tariff free routes right now.
That was one thing I really wanted to talk about.
There may be opportunities for us working with partners like
GS1 to identify country of origin, country of export, place
of manufacture. These are things that we're
starting to get a bit more robust into the data.
So that was my final thought. You know, in a perfect world, we
(30:40):
should have much more integration of our data set.
But one thing is we have, we've been in business for over 25
years, almost 30 years actually,our anniversaries next next
year. And we have, we're data rich.
We have, you know, years and years of data for all of our
provinces that we were so responsible.
We've been a partner with Nova Scotia since 20/20/11.
(31:02):
And so we can now take some of that power and harness the power
of our data and hopefully have an opportunity now to work with
that data to do some predictive analytics to really dive into
how we can make a change and our, as you said, our global
supply chain going forward. So that's something that we're,
it's a, it's a challenging time,but it's also an exciting time
for us to rethink how we your business.
(31:24):
Well, and that's what this podcast is all about, right?
Chats unchanged. So you're, you're you're head,
you're leading. And I'm really happy that we're
we're good partners. So really appreciate you taking
the time this morning. I know you're calling in from
Winnipeg, so have a great day. Thanks for calling in and Derek,
thanks for coming upstairs and having the chat.
(31:44):
Thank you so much. Great conversation.
Yeah, you too. Bye now.
Bye.
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