Check the Gate - Bringing Out The Dead

We dig into the cinephile lexicon of awesome movies not getting enough love for this Scorsese masterpiece. The 1999 film Bringing Out The Dead. Nic Cage in perfect Nic Cage form - not to crazy, just enough, not all the time, but right when we need him. This film is a fantastic run through the night for an ambulance crew in Hell's Kitchen. Tom Sizemore is killin' it. Good Goodman is rockin' it. Ving Rhames is preachin' it. It's peak Scorsese as he looks to the underbelly of society and makes it empathetic. As always, make sure you check out our other episodes and help us do all the things for people to be interested in seeing our show. Download the audio from all the apps that download.

Martin and Gretchen talk movies and more at Check the Gate. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone, I'm excited to announce that I've joined the
Creator Accountability Network. CAN is a nonprofit dedicated to reducing
harassment and abuse through ethical education and a system of
restorative accountability. I joined because I care about the safety
and the well being of my community members. If you
feel my behavior or content has harmed someone, please report
it to CAN, either via the reporting forum that is

(00:23):
on their website, Creator Accountability neetwork dot org, or via
their hotline at six one seven two four nine four
two five five. They'll help me make it right and
avoid repeating the mistakes in the future. CAN also needs
volunteers from.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Our community to help their work, So if you have.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Any skills you think would be helpful or time and
desire to help, please visit the website and find out
how you can volunteer. Most importantly, get the word out
to other creators who you think would be interested in
getting credentialed. Help us build safer communities together. This scene
is so good.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah when it because.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
There's tension, but also everybody is talking so calmly and
very coolly and yes.

Speaker 4 (01:09):
Daddy, and very like it's okay.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Like everybody's just kind of very smooth talking and it's
a very calm scene. But also we're like we realize
we're at a drug dealer's house and like, this is
what's happening.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
They called me down. It's like, hey, let's let's just
kind of calm down. We're going to kind of talk
through this. It's like, you know, what we're doing is
we're providing a service, and this is love.

Speaker 4 (01:31):
This is a thing again, very inferno.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
This is a very inferno aspect, another cantos of health.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Holy cow, Gretchen. We're back at it well, and.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
We're in an interesting new space for people. I feel
like this is going to be a different look for
us right now. I know everyone's used to our cement
walls that we had or the brick walls we had before,
and now we're kind of cinderblocky.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Yep bricks.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
It's got a little tried to find the same kind
of similar red bricks.

Speaker 4 (02:07):
It's not the same softer lighting.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
We're a little bit more like esoteric looking, I think,
exactly looking.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, it's a little bit of a it's a it's
a different studio. So we've got ourselves a different space
for now. We'll see how everything else shakes out. Trying
to find nice, good, comfortable spaces that stays with our
attempted aesthetic.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Or whatever.

Speaker 4 (02:29):
True story.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Well, welcome back, Retchen.

Speaker 4 (02:33):
Yeah, welcome back Mark.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
So, for everyone who doesn't know, this is the check
the Gate podcast where Gretchen and I watch a movie
and then we talk about it, but we never know
where the discussion is going to go. And today I
don't know where the discussion is going to go on
this really fabulous movie that you picked, which.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
Is Bringing Out the Dead by Martin Scorsese nineteen ninety nine. Drama,
I would say, drama, not a thriller, but it also
has thriller aspects. And like when we're talking about this film,
I was saying that has for me, it has these
elements of like horror elements to them. I guess we'll
get into that.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Absolutely, this is This was a great film to be
able to watch with you because I watched this back
in nineteen ninety nine when it came out in movie theaters. Yeah,
and I was not a filmmaker at the time. It
literally feels like an entire lifetime ago and a different
person of who I was, and I didn't really understand filmmaking.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Right at the.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
Time and I and I think my taste was much
more vanilla and digestible when this.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
Is not that of scorse eazyse films. This one to
me stands out as like I mean, it had to
me it has a lot of the same vein of
like Taxi Driver does.

Speaker 4 (03:48):
As far as that.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
Way that that that significance that Taxi Driver had, I
feel like this film has those aspects. It's more it's
dynamic like that. Of course he's he's never gonna like
you know, it is never going to disappoint as far
as like has directing. But for me, this film specifically
has a very like I remember it's because I saw

(04:12):
it in the theater in New Orleans, Louisiana when I
was living there was like a little bit before I
moved to Portland, Oregon, and this had there was such
a dinginess to this that reminded me of living in
New Orleans and a lot of the the way that
the homelessness and like the street performers and things like

(04:34):
that had this resonated with me the way this film did,
And I think this also spoke to when I was
looking at my my like minoring and like film theory.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yeah, yeah, this is it.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, I'm so excited for us to dig into this thing. Yes,
I you know, it's a I don't I can't say
that I've ever heard anybody says. I'm sure somebody has
not gonna be anything new here. But Martin Scorsese, he
really likes the underbelly of societ But his films are
so sophisticated that I don't think anybody ever thinks of

(05:05):
them that way.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yeah, I mean like Taxi Driver for sure. Right, and
then there's gosh, I'm trying to think of another film
of his that would have to has this element.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
As a casino. Casinos, you know, I think it.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
Casinos like high brow for in comparison in times it is.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
But it's when I think of underbelly, I guess I
almost feel like it's behind the scenes. This is all
the grody, dirty stuff that goes on that you don't
get to see when we when the rest of society
gets along for whatever the businesses are and the hustle
and everything that's happening going on in casino, you're seeing

(05:45):
all of the shit and all of the things that
these folks are really doing to keep a hold of
their power and their presence and their businesses and this, Uh,
you're right, taxi drivers very under belly. And maybe I'm
conflating some things, but I don't know. Maybe my Vin
diagram's getting big. But it's kind of it's all the
stuff that you don't want to see that that gives

(06:08):
you the sausage, Like this is how the sausage is made.
This is all the stuff that's going on at night
when you're asleep and everybody else is having to eke
out some kind of survival.

Speaker 3 (06:18):
Like that, Like didn't you do like a film about
twenty four hours in New York? Like gosh, I want
to say that was Scorsesey, but I could be wrong
about a and like an artist and had had Rosanna
arc Head in it and she dies in it. Do

(06:39):
you remember that? Like Joys of a drug overdose. I
want to say it's called like twenty four or I
don't think that's a call or something like that. That
might have been That might have been Copola. I mean, honestly,
it's one of those New York style directors. But yeah,
this is based off of a film or based off
of book by Joe Connolly. It's about this twenty the

(06:59):
forty eight hour period of a depressed paramedic in New
York who's played by Nicholas Gage brilliantly. Very few times
have I seen Nicholas Cage be able to kind of
like pull back a little bit, And this, to me
has those He's somehow managed to kind of rain himself

(07:20):
in without being like because oftentimes I feel like anytime
Nicholas Cage is in something, it is like we're watching
Nicholas Cage, and that is it. This has those elements
of his personality, but he doesn't go so overboard that
he doesn't feel like it's overacting where he's like he's
just like just going nuts, because he goes nuts, but

(07:42):
it's like it's there. It's like a ramp up, like
we know he's already like the beginning as a narration
about ghosts, and again that's another thing I thought about
this and made like a horror element to it, because
it's like it's almost like a ghost story because we're
watching the haunting of himself, like his his mind haunting him,

(08:04):
and his ghosts and his personal ghosts, and he's carrying
with them from very various like jobs.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
In this Yeah, yeah, you could kind of carry all
sorts of metaphors into this. He's dealing with his demons,
he's seeing his ghosts of the past. Yeah, he's not
reconciling with you know, the person that he thought he was.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, which is that's what that that's.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
The genius of film and the genius of Martin Scorsese
being able to make these great films. He's one of
my all time favorite filmmakers, is he Yeah, he's probably
he's he's definitely top five. I think he's he's like
top three. Would I would put him in top three,
But and we've kind of covered some of my tops
too when we did Blue Ruin Last time with Jeremy Solmier. Yeah,
And I was actually talking with another director here about

(08:50):
two weeks ago, a week and a half ago, and
they were asking me and and I and I had
listed like a top three, and then I was like, oh,
but if I bumped it down to a top five,
Jeremy Solmier would end up being in there. But Martin
score says he is I think not number one, but
he's definitely top three.

Speaker 4 (09:08):
Yeah, yeah, he.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Is.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
He does things with films that I have never he
his filmmaking is prolific for one.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Oh yeah, obviously.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
Hanging fruit prolific, right, he but he does things with
films that tell these sweeping tales that I've never seen
other directors do. And I know oftentimes I'm like, well,
it's more about the DP or more about the writer
and things like that, But he works with the same
people over and over again that they're such a cohesive

(09:45):
team that his work and their brevy of work in
general is always just just immaculate and stunning storytelling.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yeah, yeah, it's amazing.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
And he he has he's he's had a team, which
that's a very common thing that I've seen across others.
Another of my favorites in my top three, Gharamo del Toro,
is kind of the same when he was slugging it
out with a variety of people in Mexico and then
came to the States and started working works with a
lot of the same people, and they've all just progressed
over time and their abilities and they'll go out and

(10:18):
do other projects, but there is a core that's always
doing things and there's something to be said about that
and being able to deliver these magnificent stories consistently, because
I mean you really talked about how prolific he is,
and a lot of people, I don't think realize how
many documentaries Score says he does in between his narrative films.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
Didn't he also direct The Last Temptation of Christ?

Speaker 2 (10:43):
He did?

Speaker 3 (10:44):
I really loved that film. That's I mean, I maybe
we will do an episode on that one. That's a
beautiful film. I just gorgeous and again different tone, and
he's like he's able to create such like these micro
like I want to say, like microcosmos.

Speaker 4 (11:02):
That sounds so dumb, but like he creates the mic.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
He creates these like beautiful scenarios I mean, and not
always like the beautiful of subject, but like just again
like sweeping tales, and you get taken in by the
story and the gorgeousness of like using the sets and
his stuff always feels tangible and accessible. It's not so

(11:29):
a lot of times we like to talk about films
that are like fantastical or whatnot, like we did when
we did The Company of Wolves. That film doesn't it's
not very tangible. It's a fantasy. This is a fantasy,
but it's also feels real and we know this person,
we have this friend who is depressed or an alcoholic,

(11:52):
or a taxi driver, a paramedic.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
You know a great film that's a Scorsese one that
I think kind of steps away from some of this
stuff but is still Scorsese is Hugo.

Speaker 3 (12:07):
That is very fantasy, fantastical.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, that is.

Speaker 4 (12:10):
Very little boy who gets he lives.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
In the train station.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
Yeah, I forgot that was a Scorsese film.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
That's a Scorsese film, And I love that film.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
I really adore it. And there's a.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
Beautiful whimsy to that whole film that is just delightful.
And it's a real nod to filmmaking as well, because
we've got Ben Kingsley in there as the filmmaker who
uh did a voice it was like voice to the Moon,
and but he had kind of been retired and was
hiding out and it was because of Hugo and and

(12:42):
his little antics in the train station that they end
up getting to see him again. And and it's a
brilliant performance, brilliant performances.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
It's that Wood. No, No, it's not Elijah would kid.
I don't remember who that kid is off the top
of my head.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
I didn't research that one for this, but Hugo is
definitely a film that's worth a rewatch.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
Good from bringing Out the Dead to talking about Hugo, right,
This is us though.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
And that's the magic of Scorsese to be able to
be He's so. He is one of those filmmakers, which
is why he's one of my favorite is that he
truly loves cinema.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
I don't believe.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
I don't know what his business acumen is. I think
he came in at a time as a filmmaker where
he could. I don't know what his connections are on it.
I've honestly never researched his background to know what kind
of I hate to say this in business terms leverage.
He had to put himself into a position to be
able to have money to make those first films and
get going. But clearly he has a love of film

(13:44):
and he talks about film all the time, in the
importance of film, the importance of being good filmmakers and
good storytellers too. He is a massive inspiration to me
on how I direct now in trying to find my
own voice in what works. But he kind of he
he made some demarcations like in the ground for me

(14:05):
where it's like this is what this really means.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
And I'm like, I agree with.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
That, and now I need to stick with that, you know,
and so I his love of film is just so
magical in its sense every project.

Speaker 3 (14:18):
Yes, it's obvious how much he loves Hollywood, he loves
New York, he loves film. And he's part of isn't
he part of that restoration programs that are that are
trying to protect and older films and keep them alive
and getting them reshot or refilm where they're reshot onto

(14:42):
more different celluloid or putting them dig.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah, where they transfer them over and they're trying to
do film preservation and all of those.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
It's any part of the restoration project. I think I
remember him probably talking on one of those, like before
the movie played. He says, you know, talking, I love
Scorsese's voice. By the way, he's like this tiny, cute,
little old guy.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
It's so good. Yeah. I don't know if he's like
a TAXI I know, I know, I know he still has.

Speaker 4 (15:08):
Like cute like like. I love that.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
He also takes a role in a lot of his
films too. He does in this one too. Specifically, he's
the voice of the dispatch.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah throughout it, didn't you say Queen Latifa is the
other one?

Speaker 2 (15:27):
Nice?

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Well, I'll tell you. Do you want to kind of
lay down a little bit? I guess you did actually
talked a little bit about it. But do you want
to kind of set the stage of the film a
little bit before we take off into whatever rabbit trails
we take up on.

Speaker 3 (15:40):
Well, I mean I think I might. For me, that
opening shot is what grabbed me immediately. So there's this
it's almost frenetic shot of the streets of New York
from the perspective of the cab, and then that song
BT from Van Morrison is playing, Yeah, and it is
just like has this slow kind of sensual but like

(16:04):
the shot is less of that. So it's such a
like almost dichotomous like look to one another that you
have like this song by Van Morrison playing and then
like the like the streets of New York and then
you start to it starts to slow down and you
could see like the people and then the narration cuts
in where he's talking about the streets of New York

(16:26):
and the he talks about like he kind of goes
into a a not a not a rant, but just
a just a narration of how the underbelly of the
city is comes out at night and it it just

(16:48):
kind of flows so beautifully with this with the music.
I mean, for me, there's lots of moments where the score.
I'm always attracted to the scores and movies. It's something
that stands for me as a music person. I will
immediately feel I'm easily drawn into movies with music, like

(17:09):
when the music hits just right. And I feel like
this was masterful in a lot of ways, like they're
from scene to scene that I mean, we had that
section where they're going really fast and then the song
with the frequency Kenneth Rim starts playing, which is such
a random song, but it fits so perfectly.

Speaker 4 (17:28):
And I wouldn't say.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
That I was even an Arim fan honestly, but yeah,
that fits.

Speaker 4 (17:34):
It's that it would be.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
We we find out that Nicholas Cage's character is depressed,
that he's an alcoholic, he's he has his his what
is partner is John Goodman in this.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Who's always right everything?

Speaker 4 (17:54):
I feel like nineteen ninety nine was such a.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
Good time for films of this of this ilk right,
like because this is like this is blade this.

Speaker 4 (18:03):
Is strange days.

Speaker 3 (18:07):
This is you know, a lot of these films at
this time just hit right. It had that that feeling
of I want to say, like we were so dystopic
almost because we were not sure what the New Millennium
was going to bring and like what was going to change.
And I feel like this is one of those films

(18:27):
that has that we're standing on that teetering edge and
then to tip over into the New Millennium and that's
going to be like but like this feels old New York,
but also when we're starting to become more New York,
New New York whatever, the New Millennium. But on top

(18:47):
of that, we're also talking about a street drug that
is running rampant on the streets of New York called
Red Death at the time, and Red Death is taking
out a lot of the homeless population as well as
like the gang culture. And that's where our story kind
of begins, is he's talking about this darkness that is

(19:11):
consuming people and how it is he's just basically putting
band aids on things.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah, I think that's probably the biggest takeaway of all
of this is that I feel like Nicholas Cage is
witnessing the victimhood of so many people that are not
recognized by society. Yeah, and his job is basically to
kind of scoop him up and put him somewhere so

(19:40):
that when it's daylight, not everybody has to see it.
And he's starting to recognize that that is his job.
His job is not necessarily to heal people or be
part of a system that's trying to make things better.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
It's really about clean up.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah, And I mean, unfortunately, that's kind of I'm sure
the role at that time, especially with like the where
drugs were going. It's I'm little did they know where
they're going to be at right now?

Speaker 2 (20:06):
I was going to say, is it any different right now?

Speaker 3 (20:08):
I mean I feel like this was a little better,
like to be more a little better shape than they
are currently unfortunately. But also to that he's he talks
about being haunted, and he talks about a There was
a young girl named Rose who has a asthma attack

(20:28):
and collapses and he is not able to get the
tube down her throat. We later find out that like
he keeps trying to intubate her, and the intubation tube
keeps going in her stomach and he's just he's just
trying over and over and over and over again. And
then John Goodman's character takes over trying to and end
up tubing her. But they weren't able to save her.

(20:50):
But her death was so senseless to him and could
have been prevented. He feels like he could have prevented
if he had been more sober, more awake, more more rested,
more of the all the things that we all go
through when we have these kinds of regrets. I feel

(21:10):
like this, this is where he's this is what the
narration is talking about, the beginning or kind of beginning.

Speaker 4 (21:18):
Ish but.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
Roses ghosts haunts him in multiple ways, and throughout the movie,
we're experiencing this haunting by seeing her face in every
dark facet of the streets. Like we see her in
like prostitutes, we see her in homeless kids, we see

(21:43):
her in like gang kids, we see her in like
club people. It's that's to me, I think one of
the reasons why I felt like this has such horror
elements and why of was so drawn in by this
story because I I mean, I'm I like, I like
a good ghost story. What can I say it?

Speaker 1 (22:08):
It is a it is a great ghost story in
watching him go through uh an attempt at figuring out
what is going to make this better. I feel that
where we meet up with him, he has stopped believing
that there is redemption in what he does. We're catching

(22:30):
him after that fact. It's like, Okay, if there's no redemption,
then there's self medication. Uh, there is getting out of
this completely.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
He tries to be fired over and over and over again.
He's gonna quite he won't.

Speaker 4 (22:47):
They won't let him quit, and they won't fire him.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
But today with Tom, Yeah, so I feel like there's
I keep saying I feel like, but these are my
interpretations of this film.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
The this is almost a Dante's Inferno journey into hell.
The reason why I say that is because each partner
that he works with has brings a different element to it.
John Goodman's character is a little bit more like he's
trying to promote. He's trying to better his life. He

(23:28):
wants to become a captain. He's taking his captain's test.
He wants to better himself.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
Tom Sizemore is like is the devil. I mean, he
is the devil.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
Give me the gunshots, the blood.

Speaker 4 (23:45):
The murder. He's there for the Mayhem.

Speaker 3 (23:48):
And that's why I'm like, he's a very dead like
a like a devil, like a demonic aspect to him.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
But yeah, I was perfectly said, he is there for
the Mayhem. That is exactly it.

Speaker 4 (24:00):
Oh yeah. And then ving Raim's Marcus.

Speaker 5 (24:03):
Is he's there for the Salvation and he's hope yeah,
and is he hope?

Speaker 3 (24:09):
He is because he wants people to believe that they
can do better.

Speaker 4 (24:13):
I mean like when the.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
Through Salvation, I mean I feel like he's a he's
a preacher. He's kind of evangelical with all of this,
but you would be better if you found the Lord.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Well it's it's not pragmatic, hope.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
No, But none of these characters are pragmatic.

Speaker 5 (24:31):
Okay, the fair point, that's true.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
I mean they're all kind of they're all broken in
one way or not. Yeah, but his I think with Marcus,
like the scene when the club Kids, when the club
kids overdoses on red death, they Marcus is giving having

(24:53):
an administer Narkham back when Narkham was an injected medication
as opposed to like snorted now when we could just
spread up your nose he's like this takes a few minutes,
and so he gathers the kids, make them all hold hands,
and he's like, pray with Jesus, pray together.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
And these are like god god kids, super like god
kids of the nineties, Like.

Speaker 4 (25:20):
Yeah, what is it I be banging?

Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yeah, that was his name. That was Wait, what's his
real name? It's Roger No, I'd be banging.

Speaker 3 (25:30):
No, he had like a Roderick had exactly. He was
like Roderick y Bangan, pray with me. Now, Lord Jesus,
bring Bangan back to us.

Speaker 4 (25:45):
And then the kid wakes up.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
He is He's having a revival right there.

Speaker 4 (25:50):
Is fantastic.

Speaker 3 (25:52):
And his relationship with the dispatcher Love, which is played
by quin Queen Lativa. It's such a fun light discourse
versus the all darkness that we see because he's again
like he feels like a bit of salvation, a bit
of light in the dark, like a hope, whereas we're

(26:13):
seeing mostly like with like Tom Sizemore's character, Tom, he
is so dark, and I mean.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Like, yeah, he wants the mayhem.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
And I think you are correct in Marcus being that
of hope, because I do think he considers himself to
be the tip of the spear of something that is,
while righteous, that is still something that's corrective exactly. And
Tom does not want to correct the streets. He wants
to live in that mayhem.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
Absolutely, yeah, like I'm sure thriving. Oh gosh, right, I
mean he knows. Like we get to meet kind of
a cast of characters, like Patricia Arkhead plays a one
of the first calls that John Goodman and Nicholas Cage's
characters have to take on as a They get a

(27:03):
heart attack call and they go in to this house
and unfortunately this father has passed and so they're trying
to resuscitate him. And unfortunately for the father, they resuscitate him.
And but it's not real life. It's right, it's an
electronic it's a it's a signal that at the end

(27:24):
of his existence.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
His organs are still his rain is dead.

Speaker 3 (27:28):
And I mean he's got non responsive pupils. He's pretty
much a vegetable, but the family wanted him to continue.
And Patricia Arcat plays there the daughter in this scenario,
and she's a We kind of get wind that she's
a recovering junkie or is a junkie maybe like hasn't

(27:50):
hasn't done it in a while or whatnot. I feel
like she was in recovery, right, But.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah, she had said that it had been a long
time that she had gone through all of that, because
you know, one of the aspects that we see is
that while she is her her apartments actually like clean,
it's an order.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
She's got a good life.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
So for whatever she happened dinner, Yeah, at the time,
they had been having family dinner. But that's interesting you
would say that because the father has had this cardiac arrest,
it's taken them a while to get there, so you know,
he's for the most part, he's brain dead, but they're
keeping things alive. That's the family request. But as it unravels,
Patricia Arkad is talking about how there was not a

(28:28):
good relationship, that there had been these fights and then
these arguments, all these issues, especially with her growing up.
So she wants her father to be alive so she
can go back and have the relationship with her father
that she's never had before now that he's now that
he's essentially dead, but she doesn't want to accept that.
She wants to go back and have the things that
she never had and she's she's trying to find that

(28:51):
she wants desperate to hold on to that.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
And in that like the dad kind of haunts.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
Them, yeah, well, and haunts Nicholas Cage for sure for Frank,
Yeah Frank, because Frank continues to kind of check in
on the father because he wants to relay messages back
to Patricia Arquette, because he finds her interesting. He would
like to have something maybe possibly happen with her. So
he's kind of become this conduit back and forth. And

(29:20):
as we watch I guess sort of the breakdown of Frank,
he begins to believe that the father is communicating with him.

Speaker 3 (29:28):
Right, he sees but I think that also on top
of that, he sees the past, his past like patience,
right in the sense of he knows that keeping this
man alive is not a kindness.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
Right, it's a selfish act on their part. And clearly
this some part of this guy, either his brain or
his body or like, this is just done.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
We're done, and he's angry, I mean, and whenever they
have to continue to shock him, it takes longer and
longer to bring him back, Like they what.

Speaker 5 (30:08):
He's saying fourteen times tis Yeah, and so that is
interpreted in Nicholas Cage's mind as an angry is like
kind of an angry like exchange.

Speaker 4 (30:21):
She's like, why are you doing this to me? Frank?

Speaker 5 (30:23):
Just let me go, Frank, you know, clearly trying to
exit fourteen times.

Speaker 3 (30:29):
Yeah, I mean, grief is hard and loss is hard.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
What is grief if not love persisting?

Speaker 3 (30:36):
Right? Oh?

Speaker 4 (30:37):
Yeah, true, that's true.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah, So it's hard.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
And and I see that in Patricia Arquette again with
her wanting to have the relationship with their father that
she never had, the regret that's in there now. So
it's it's interesting to watch all of that unfold. It's
interesting with Nicholas Cage on all of this because his

(31:02):
I can't necessarily say that there's a transformation in him.
There's there is redemption. He does find redemption. He's able
to eventually let Rose go, and and part of that
is in what he does with the father, which we
can get into. There's a lot of me that really
feels like he's the delivery system for all of this stuff,

(31:23):
which we are. We're seeing it through his eyes. There's
no direct plot driven aspect of this story. We're really
along for the ride with Frank, and so Frank is
our conduits, He's our delivery system for all of this world,
and he also then becomes kind of the Rosetta stone

(31:45):
for it as his own emotional situations are Dante.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
Yeah, he's he is Dante in this because we're seeing
his his journey and the cast of like each I
feel like each level of people that he meets and
we come across is another Cantos of Hell or a
representative of it, like Mark Anthony's character Nol meeting that

(32:11):
poor tragic person who is has a rare genetic disorder
that causes can that on top of the fact that
he's a homeless and probably crazy.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
Mental health issues mental health issues.

Speaker 3 (32:25):
He also has like a rare disorder where he can't
if he drinks too much water, it can kill him,
which I thought was a really fascinating because again, that
would be if you think about it, that's a very
Dante's Inferno style of existence, because if you're in Hell,
what do you want?

Speaker 2 (32:44):
He constantly desires water?

Speaker 3 (32:47):
Yeah, right, So I mean that's a version of someone's
hell in my opinion.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah, absolutely, that's It did not dawn on me that
way at the time through that lens.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
But that you're absolutely right. I might really like Dante's Inferno.

Speaker 3 (33:02):
I might have several copies of it in very in
different ways and forms.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
I have never read Dante's really, I never have.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
I think it suppose you to try it very It's
a very lyrical story. I mean, it's a poem, it's
a it's a comedy, a divine comedy. But this is
kind of there are comedic elements in this, like the
rabidness of Tom Sizemore's character, the the overwhelming love of

(33:30):
Marcus is of Ving Rahim's character Marcus. These are almost
like beat for beats in ways like the like the
divine comedy Dante's Inferno.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
Wow, yep, that's That's always one of those things that
it's always been out there and I've just assumed I would.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
Get to and I never have, so I will have
to get to it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:52):
I would recommend listening to it in audiobooks because it
would be more it's a little bit more interesting to
have somebody reading it to you. It has a really
good format to it. There's a few that are just
some really good voice acting. But that aside, do.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
You have a good voice actor that you know of
who's done it.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
I think, well, I'm my favorite is the fmin Height
from Insters and to know about and I'm probably just
butchered that Insters And to know about it. But there
it's called Radio Inferno and it was put in the
nineties and it's basically a radio broadcast from Hell and
so we're hearing it in multiple languages and different instrumental

(34:30):
kind of cacophony happening in the background. It's really it's
really bizarre, but kind of worth it. I think you
can find it on like most like Spotify and stuff
like that.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
Oh, I'll have to Yeah, I'll have to do that
one too. I do think I should read it, read it,
but I should also listen to it, yeah, because that
would be a lot of fun.

Speaker 3 (34:48):
I like the idea of being a radio broadcast from
Helen this is where watching we're listening to Dante's journey.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
That's that seems just so cool and how amazing would that.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Be to do that.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
But again, also I like that each what each character
kind of represents. So we have like we meet Nol
and we kind of realize there's like a that Prattucier,
our cat's character knows of Knowl being in their neighborhood,
and again again like they're these people are kind of interconnected.

Speaker 4 (35:17):
And then we have.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
The the Tom saws Morris's character beating the crap out
of Knowl because Noel gets Noel escapes the hospital, escapes
because he was tied down to his bed, and he
escapes and is running rampant thro the city and they
find they keep kind of coming across him in multiple ways,

(35:40):
like it's almost I almost hate to say this, but
he's almost like kind of like a Greek chorus kind
of because he kind of harolds them into each like scenario.
We see Noel in the background, like the gang bangers
that have a shootout. That was one of the call

(36:01):
that he takes with with Tom is that there's a
gang shootout and it's obviously a drug shootut because we
see like the red death vials on the ground and
then somebody scoops him up carries them out.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yep, they take off with the vials that don't get broken,
so I go sell them somewhere.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's this.

Speaker 4 (36:20):
I love this movie.

Speaker 3 (36:22):
Yeah really, but I always say I feel like every
episode I watched back and I'm like, yeah, I say
I love this, and I but I do, I don't.
I don't ever talk about something I hate. Yeah, I
mean the only time I've ever had like a negative
was like like the Prumsing Young Woman, but that was
not even But I didn't hate watch that. I watched
it because it was beautiful, but it was you know,

(36:43):
it was upsetting film again, artist to interpretation, right, yeah,
and mine always with this is gonna be the Dante's
Journey into the Inferno.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yeah, it's this is. I love my Scorsese. He I
love my Scorsese. I actually don't have a film of
his where I'm just like that one just didn't land.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
Yeah, I've never had a film like that with him.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Never Coppola all the time for me. But but I
think I'm just not a Coppola like. I love Coppola,
some of Coppola's films, but Scorsese seems to be one.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
Yeah time, absolutely I.

Speaker 6 (37:29):
Liked like Brooker's Dracula, so I love and this is
a shout out for some folks because I was just
talking to somebody about this, So Bromstokers Dracula, France Ford
Coppola love that movie that the art.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
So the production designer of that film. Yeah, I worked
with him on his final film. He had gotten off
of being a production designer for Crimson Peak with Germo
del Toro, and the production designer for Star Trek B
and he was just tired. He had been at it

(38:04):
for a long time and he just I mean talk
about like high school degree and just dragged himself up
through a lot of just bad decisions in his youth
to become this production artist and then production designer. He
was working on Hook. The writer of Hook, New Coppola said, Hey,

(38:27):
I want to introduce you to Copyla. I think you'd
go over good on this film that he's looking to do.
So he takes Tom over there and says, hey, Tom,
this is Frank. They meet and Francis Ford Coppola is like,
you're my guy. You're going to be my production designer
for this and does all the production design, like all
the armor, all the backup, like all of that production.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Design is Tom. Tom Sanders.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
And so Tom works on films for you know, decades
for that. But he gets off of Crimson Peak and
Star Trek Beyond. He's in his third marriage, he's got
a four year old kid with his new wife, and
he's just like, I'm gonna go find a place to
settle down, buys a house in Portland and just decides
I'm gonna hang out and retire. And people are still

(39:12):
pitching in films and he's getting all sorts of stuff,
and Peter Jackson pitched The Mortal Engines, which is a
young adult series that they had been in. They had
been in development hell with that thing, and so he decided.
Tom decided to take that film because he wanted to
see how Wetta Studios makes all of their practical studio stuff.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
And he's like, I'm.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Gonna see how they do it, because I'm going to
build a new studio here in Portland to do all
our buildouts and design and everything. I'm gonna move all
my friends here to Portland and we're going to do that,
and we're going to service LA, We're going to service Vancouver, BC.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
We're gonna be able to do all those things and
we're gonna make all it.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
So he was looking for someone and a person said,
you need to hire that guy. So I got hired
on as the production design assistant that Tom Wow, and
we were designing the Mortal Engines. So a lot of
the stuff. There's the City of Salt Hook. I was
one of the designers for the City of Salt Hook.
There is an airship in there that's called the Jenny,

(40:15):
and I designed the Jenny. That's I designed it actually
after the Glamorous Glennis. The first aircraft to break the
sound barrier, the X one. Then Chuck Yeger flew Yeah,
and then there's an air city that's in there. Anyway,
I got to do all of this stuff with this
guy that was part of Bromstoker's Dracula, and it was
this monumental time for me. And the deal was that

(40:36):
we were gonna everything was going to move to New
Zealand for the film. So I packaged up everything to
him and sent him ahead and he got to New
Zealand and a couple of weeks later he was diagnosed
with cancer and he had to drop the film and
he moved back to the States and he died a
couple of weeks later.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
That's terrible, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
And it was, and so all of that, all of
that kind of just disappeared. They had to bring in
another production designer and they replaced the whole team because
everyone had been with Tom so Tom's team was replaced,
and yeah, and the film happened. Almost all of the
production design that we had created made it through there.
That person executed most all of our design work that

(41:20):
was in there, which was great. But yeah, that was
uh credit you I did not get credit on that, Nope,
I got I am. I am on IMDb as uncredited
in there, so they didn't. I'm not in the film
run yep, but you can see me on IMDb. It happens.
I'm a non union person when it comes to that
kind of stuff. And you know, it was everything ran

(41:41):
through Tom. I mean, if I had been doing things
that Tom didn't approve of or like, it would have
never seen the light of day. So you know he
all of that went through him. So yeah, anyway, he
was a fantastic guy and he designed all of that
beautiful look of brom Stokers Dracula.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
And I'm not a fan of that film, but.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
It is the most gorgeous film socary.

Speaker 4 (42:05):
Well, we don't want to get too far off. We're crazy, but.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
That's our but that is our thing. We don't know
where it's going to go. We'll pull it back into Scarsese.
But we're talking about folks. Yeah here, and and and
people who were tours. They're kind of doing things their
own way. And and Scorsese has done things the way
he's wanted to and made a good career and made
great films. Copele has done the same thing, but he's
been a lot more hit and missing. My but no,
so Bromsakers. Dracula is a beautiful film. It is gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
The Japanese designer who did all the fashion for it
designs were.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
That's and that's what Tom She passed away too, So
Tom was was developing and designing a lot of that
stuff with her.

Speaker 4 (42:44):
She's amazing. She did the cell as well.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
Yep, Yeah, the cell is something I wonder if she
did the Fall she did. I have not seen The Fall.
In The Fall is a film that I have wanted
to have in our list. Okay, well then I know
where that one's showing up. Yeah, but uh, Gary Oldman
is magnificent in that film.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
Magnificent. And I loved Winona Writer.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
It's not her best performance, but I I have a
special place in my heart for Wanona Writer.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
I'll watch her do whatever. I think. She's just a
glorious person. I really love her.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Keanu Reeves is a good guy and he's been great.
He is not good in that film, and he was
they put him in that film.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
The studio did.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
The studio said, we will not give you money unless
Keanu Reeves is in this film, and so Copola took him,
didn't want him. And I don't think it was anything personal.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
It was that.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
I think Copola had a different view, but he wanted
to get his film made and that's what it took.
And Keano's wonderful, he's wonderful human being.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
People love to work with him.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
He is just the best person ever to work with.
I hope I get to work with him someday. He
just wasn't He just wasn't right.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
He just wasn't there, and I and so I didn't
care for it.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
And kind of the troop of people with him there's.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Not very good.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
I don't think their performances are very good. You have
this really lush, wonderful, astounding universe with these This performance
by Gary Oldman that.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Is just transcendent.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
It's transcendent, it's magnificent. And I think when you when
you put Bill and Ted against that performance, it's tough.
And that's not against Keanu Reeves, lovely good person. It
just wasn't right and it doesn't land, and it's it's
like it's very noticeable to me. So still a film

(44:39):
I revisit. Anyway, we can go back to Scorsese.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
Well, when you're talking about the technical aspects of filmmaking,
there's actually one thing that really stands out in this film. Well,
many things that will stand out in this film. One
of them specifically that was one of my favorites was
there's an effect that happens about midway through and where
we kind of see happened to Rose where she collapses
in the snow, but it plays backwards, so back then,

(45:08):
this is nineteen ninety nine era of filmmaking.

Speaker 4 (45:11):
So we're still digitally.

Speaker 3 (45:14):
Kind of something's not But what Scorsese did in this
that made it very again I want to say, like
a tangibleness to it is that. And what makes this
very ghostly is that he made her walk backwards and
shot it and then ran it ran it forward, and
so this has such a ghostly effect. Do you remember

(45:39):
the scene where she's collapsing in the snow and she's
like walking weirdly and it's very staggered. That was so breathtaking.
I remember when I saw that in the theater, I
was like, how this is like Twin Peaks, Like this
has that same but better. I love Twin be but

(46:01):
this was better. And the lighting and the way this
was shot was so smart and made kind of made
it otherworldly and again made it ghostly Mitch again, Like
I talk about how.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
I love a horror, good horror film, or.

Speaker 4 (46:20):
A good ghost story.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
This this makes it a very haunting scene, that enough
that it stays with me, what twenty five years later?

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Right?

Speaker 5 (46:30):
You know?

Speaker 2 (46:31):
Yeah? And it does. It gives it a very well
it to me.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
It gives it there's a little bit of the supernatural
in it, but it makes it play out like this
is how it would play out in your memory. You
are playing something over and over again. You're going forward
and backwards with it over and over again because it's
the thing you're beating yourself up with this whole time.
So you're playing it in multiple directions over and over again,
and probably even changing the story sometimes because you got

(46:57):
to hit yourself even harder. But of course that's what
I love about it is that it doesn't feel like
we're we went back in time and watched the scene
play out. We watched the scene play out in his head.
And that's what That's what that filming style does for me.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Is I feel like we're in his brain going.

Speaker 4 (47:17):
Watching this haunting. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
There's other characters that are interesting and fun in this,
like the drug dealer who is played.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
By Yeah, who is he played by?

Speaker 3 (47:28):
That is he's in The Whale Rider, so that when
I first saw this, I was like, this is is
this the uncle from the Whale Rider?

Speaker 4 (47:36):
Like or something like that.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
He's one of the dudes in so many things. He's
so very.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
Much he's like a character actor. I suppose yeah, because
he's never like a main character, but he's just like
a he always plays like a background character. He was
so fun in this. As the drug dealer, SI that
Rosanna or Rosanna Patricia Arquette goes to visit this drug
dealer because she just can't deal with all what's going

(48:01):
with her dad and.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
She hasn't slept and saved seven.

Speaker 3 (48:04):
Days and so Nicholas Cage is like, I'll take you,
and because he's like he's again, he's kind of sweet
on her and he takes her to this this apartment
and it's such a it looks like a velvet painting, right,
like it has a fish tank and the shag carpeting

(48:26):
and the walls are red and like it's it's a.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Yeah, they call it the Oasis. It's a very clean,
well kept opium den.

Speaker 4 (48:37):
Yes. Yes.

Speaker 3 (48:38):
And then like super hot girl who's like sitting on
the couch like giving like pet and heads and I'm like,
man alive, Yeah I would, I'd be okay with my
head and her lap and let her stroke my hair.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
I love that ship.

Speaker 4 (48:51):
Please.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
Yeah, she was gorgeous, gorgeous.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
And again, like I said, the whole that whole scene
looks like a velvet painting. I I got sweet for
that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
Yeah, And it's so this scene is so good. Yeah
when it because.

Speaker 3 (49:12):
There's tension, but also everybody's talking so calmly and very
coolly and yes, daddy, and very like it's okay, Like
everybody's just kind of very smooth talking and it's a
very calm scene. But also we're like we realized we're
at a drug dealer's house, and like this.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
Is what it's calm for a little while because the
so in setting the scene here we did Nicholas Cage
has taken Patricia Arquette there. I don't think he fully
understands what's going on there.

Speaker 3 (49:42):
I'll make you understands have of what's going on.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
Right, And so he takes her there, but he drops
her off. She goes inside on her own. He goes
to leave, can't bring himself to do it, goes back,
bangs on the door, goes in there, and he's kind
of been a big huff and he's rather aggressive, and
they like they.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
Calmed him down.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
It's like, hey, let's let's just kind of calm down.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
We're going to kind of talk through this.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
And it's like, you know, what we're doing is we're
providing a service, and this is this is a.

Speaker 4 (50:08):
Thing again very inferno.

Speaker 3 (50:10):
This is a very inferno aspect, another Cantos of hell.
Like this feels like we're looking at what is it
the the like there's a there's a lake of blood
and people are boiling in it. This has those aspects
to it, not in the sense of like that it's terrific,

(50:32):
but we're looking at like this temptation, this, this drop.
It's a very island of the lotus eaters.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
It's all of that nice.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
Yeah, and with so with Si, he's a very charismatic
person who is delivering relief, right, And he eventually talks
Nicholas Cage into taking something to relax him. Just just
get some sleep. This is self care, this is this
is medicine. You're just you just need to sleep, and

(51:03):
this is going to help you sleep. And for a
very brief moment, Nicholas Cage gets to kind of pass
out and sleep. And as soon as he does, Yep,
roses back and it's and it's rows up to eleven.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
And when he comes out.

Speaker 4 (51:18):
Of that, he's flailing.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
Yeah, he's got exactly his body is now having the
opposite reaction instead of getting the relief and the relaxation
and the sleep that he had wanted. He's a wreck
and realizes that he needs to just get out of
there now. And so he goes in and grabs Patricia

(51:40):
scoops her up and they kind of he staggers out
of there, trying to try to get her out. Yeah,
and they you know, kind of get back out onto
the street, out of there, and she's not very happy
about it because she was sleeping.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
She wanted her relief.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
But it was just I thought this was so emblematic
of how he has been as a character so far,
because the thing that's supposed to give him relief doesn't
give him relief. He can't let go of Rose no
matter what. Even the stuff that should be chemically inducing
him into a better state doesn't work.

Speaker 4 (52:17):
That's the haunting.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Yeah, I mean he is going escapable.

Speaker 3 (52:21):
Yeah, it's his remorse and his guilt will haunt him forever.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
And he has been self medicating with booze, So it's
as if he is at this place now where self
medication cannot help even to take this step up and
take these drugs. There is he's it is an inescapable reality.
He cannot escape his brain.

Speaker 4 (52:44):
Yeah, agreed.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Yeah, it's so great.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
But we get to come back around to size place
afterwards because we get to talk about red death.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
A little bit there when he first goes.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
There, right, because he was saying that, he was like,
I don't deal in that shit. Why would I kill
my customers?

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Right? Yeah, He's like, I.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
Perform a service, not a destruction, right, and so which
I makes him the cut of charismatic villain that we
all love.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
Yeah, but he he does differentiate himself as that he
I think he honestly believes he is. He is catering
to a particular client. Talent has a service because they're
even overseeing everyone there. I mean, it's almost kind of
like some people that are taking their psilocybin trips and
they've got they've.

Speaker 2 (53:28):
Got a guide with them.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
So these folks are all being tended to. The place
is clean, there's a lovely little saltwater.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
Fish tank and everything.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
So he believes his own hype about being that. And
whereas the Red Death dealers, they're just they're going for
the quick shot.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
They don't care what the outcome is.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
They're making their quick money, thinking that's going to be
their salvation. There's going to get rich quick and get out.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
Well, then there's a destruction of that den.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
Yeah, that comes back around to.

Speaker 4 (53:55):
It, which is wild.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
Well Cy had mentioned in there that there were things
in motion that we're going to be taking care of
those punks that are dealing out the Red Death. And
what ends up happening is they hit Cy first or
they hit him in retaliation. That was a little bit
fuzzy on that, but it seemed like it was either
in retaliation or a first strike knowing that Sy was
going to do something.

Speaker 3 (54:18):
Yeah, what a spectacular scene where he jumps out of
the building and he gets impaled on a fence and
Nicholas has to save him and cut him off of
this fence.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
But that's yeah, And there's such a.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
Spectacular moment where Cy is on drugs and he's on
the side of the of the fence.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
Yeah, the railing below, on the railing below the floor, the.

Speaker 3 (54:45):
Railing, and there's all these sparks flying and he's like,
this is so beautiful.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
Yeah, and it just thinks it's fireworks going off for him.

Speaker 3 (54:52):
Of like golden like like starfire, starlight.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
It's gorgeous.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
It's so great, those like Scorsesey beautiful moments of thinking, Yeah,
just I love that.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
It's so good.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
But it also is the horror of it too, because
these guys thought their way out was we're gonna make
a run for it. Hit our balcony, jump, we're gonna
go to the balcony down below. His his henchman who
is there, makes it down there, but breaks both of
his legs and then falls through the windows. So now
he's sliced himself up, broken legs, and he like drags

(55:27):
himself across the broken glass into the room.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
He's bleeding out on the floor below.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
But SI thought that he was going to be okay
because he wasn't the three hundred and fifty pound henchmen. Yeah,
and instead he ends up tripping and backflops into the spiked.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Railing of the deck below. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
Man, he's just yeah, but he's he's just so pragmatic
about it.

Speaker 4 (55:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:59):
What I like about this One of the many things
I like about this film is that there are no
it doesn't it doesn't just like there's there's no hero's journey,
but there's a journey that we get to experience, but
there is no like this is the end result and
all is okay.

Speaker 4 (56:18):
It's not that.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
Yeah, it's it's never that.

Speaker 3 (56:22):
And I think that's what a one of the things
that makes us such a brilliant film as it feels
again when I say we talk about tangibleness, this is
one of those master strokes in filmmaking that make this
film feel like something you can watch over and over
and over again because it isn't just tidy, and nothing
is tidy about this at all.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
Yeah, And something so an interesting thing about with Cy,
but then also with we have got the pregnant mother
that we get to and I think that's after Cy
if I remember right, the pregnant woman and her virgin husband.

Speaker 3 (56:58):
Oh yeah, there was such a side character. I really
about it.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
That was a side one, but there was an interest.

Speaker 3 (57:02):
That was another one of those like redemption moments of like.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
Yeah, that was a side quest, but there was an
interesting thing about it, and I had kind of noted
it in my head, but I had kind of let it.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
Go on a couple of them.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
Almost all of the calls are cardiac arrest calls. Not
all of them, but most of them are. And then
there's a point in time when they're in that building
and they're trying to find this person, They're like, why
are they Why is there so many of these are
cardiac arrests. Why isn't it this other stuff, you know,
like pointing it out? And I was wondering why, as
a storytelling device, that had been a choice to say

(57:34):
that so many of these because the only cardiac arrest
that they ever had was the very first call with
Patricia Arquet's father, and then everything else after that that
was a cardiac arrest.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
When they get there it's actually something else.

Speaker 3 (57:46):
Maybe that's the only way to get them to come out.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
Maybe if if someone thinks that it's a gang shooting,
they're just gonna be like, well, we're not gonna hurry
ourselves for that one. Oh we got a guy and
paled on a spike on a balcony.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
We're not in a hurry.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
But yeah, cardiac arrest. They were flying every time. So
it was interesting because then they noted that. It's like,
why are these always cardiac arrests. But then we get
there and we have this woman who is having she's
pregnant and she's yeah, she's twins and she's having a
she's having babies.

Speaker 4 (58:16):
Yeah, yeah, and.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
One of them is in distress.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
Yes it was a breach berth Ye.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
One of them survives in there, they I mean, it's amazing.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
I noted this.

Speaker 3 (58:28):
But notice being Raim's character who gets it gets to
have the live, happy baby.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
Yes, and Nicholas Cage gets the one that dies. Yeah,
that was brutal, and that's right, that is Marcus.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
So that's before they get to cy for that because
sigh is when Tom has taken over because Marcus is
wrecked the rig and Marcus is on brain, right, So
so we're with Marcus before the accident and that's when
and so I was noting this too when we were
watching it. So they're in this building. The building has
no electricity to it. They've been sent Hell, and yeah,

(59:03):
well it's kind of an ascent. They're going up the stairs,
but it is it's like the.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
Descent in Hell.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
They're going to the next level and they get there
and there's just candlelight and and then their flashlights are there,
but they carry when they do this shot. So they
go to move this woman. They're trying to get her
to the ambulance.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
They don't make it.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
She ends up giving birth downstairs. But that is two actors.
I don't know if it's really Ving Raim's and Nicholas
Cage or not, but it is really two actors with
a third actor in a blanket.

Speaker 4 (59:36):
That they're carrying like the dark that.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
They are carrying like a cot. They are carrying this
person down these rainy leaked on stairs.

Speaker 3 (59:44):
Weird and marved out steps.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
Right, and you can see it is it's such a
great shot, and I mean, you're calling it out as
Dante's Inferno is kind of perfect and like an ascension dissension.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
Yeah, but as they're going through there.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
And I'm kind of looking at them like is that
like nah, that might just they just have just like
dead weight. And then they hit like the light shining
through there and you can see the person like move
in the blanket while they're doing it and shift and
trying to take a corner. I'm like, Oh, they're really
hauling a person right there. That's this is practical Scorsese shot, Like.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
We're not faking.

Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
He doesn't have to things.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
Was like, all right, so I want you guys to
like carry the You're gonna each take it into the blanket,
and everybody's gonna carry her up it stairs, all right,
all right?

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
And he probably said it just like that. Yeah, that
was amazing. Yeah, I love I do.

Speaker 4 (01:00:32):
I love it like a good New York accent. I mean,
like that kind of fun like New York accents.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
He did a masterclass years ago. It's the only master
class I've ever paid for, and I still have my
account that has that in there, and I revisit it
every time, and even if I'm not learning something from it,
I just love to listen to him talk about movies,
and I do. I love his accent, I love his
just the rhythm of how he speaks. It's so good.
I wish I could. I wish I could meet Scorsese.

(01:00:56):
If anybody knows a way to make that happen, that
would be great.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Oh this is such a great film.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
But we I mean, I always say that, but we
do choose this. We're we don't have like a random
movie generator.

Speaker 4 (01:01:10):
We're really do garbage films.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
We're like, we try to do stuff that we love
and that is thoughtful and artistic and without being too
art house like over that Uncle Uh boon me one.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
That was well, And you know, Boonbee was an experiment definitely,
And if we both watch The Fall, that will be
a little bit of an experiment.

Speaker 4 (01:01:36):
Too, because audience yea.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
And Uh and uh rend ver sing is Uh is
very much an art a metaphor guy. He's a metaphor guy.
He's very artistic. He very much has a vision. So
I would I'm interested in every going back and watching
The Cell because I remember The Cell not being very

(01:02:00):
good movie, but beautiful love.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
I like that movie. It was gorgeous.

Speaker 4 (01:02:04):
Well that's just what I remember kind of silly.

Speaker 3 (01:02:07):
The premise is kind of silly, and I feel like
there are if it had been done now, there are
things that would have been accomplished a little bit better.
But the performances that we got out of that were
really great, like Vinecentinaprio Ainapria is amazing, terrifying and yeah,
horrible but wow.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
But again, for me, that is at a time when
I was in my popcorn phase. I loved my movies,
and I was an encyclopedia of movies, but I was
an encyclopedia of popcorn movies. And that's not a popcorn movie,
nor is he a popcorn director.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
He kind of went on and did some stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
I would say, I've never seen The Immortals or snow White,
but I think both of those were meant to be
like popcorn movies. He did a snow White movie with
Julia Roberts.

Speaker 4 (01:02:58):
Did he do Mirror me?

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Is that what it's called? It might be called mirror Mirror?
I don't remember.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
It was one of those that's also the same the
same Japanese costume designer. She also did the dresses for
Mirror Mirror.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
Oh, I don't doubt that. Yeah, how weird?

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
Yeah, wow, it's such a I mean it's almost like
they all worked together.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
I know that was early two thousands. I've never seen
those two films. I when I saw trailers for The Immortals,
I looked at that and was like, yeah, that super cheesy.

Speaker 4 (01:03:29):
That is that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
Kind of like a Greek mythology type of Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
I think it came out around the time that three
thousand was being made, so I think it was like
your studio.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
Or three hundred, yeah, three thousand, yeah, three so three hundred.

Speaker 4 (01:03:43):
So in that same vein.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
Yeah, I think her.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
Studios were trying to compete and they were trying to
get somebody because you know, at that time, that was
a very stylized, very purposeful envision film done Snyder, and
I think that the studios were like, who can we
bring in who is a very stylized visionary director to

(01:04:06):
create something for us that can compete against that ran
Ver Singh, right, And I think that's why that movie
was probably made. I don't know, you know, it's just
me talking with my mouth open.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
You know, I'm the I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
The white mediocre dude talking about on a podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
Yeah, but I mean, I guess we're at that wrapping
up point of this is that where we're sure this
movie was perfect, I think for its era. I would
hate to see this movie redone because I think that
it spoke to the time of which it was when
it was made. And I'm not sure when the book

(01:04:49):
was written, but the screenplay adaptation done by what Paul
Schroeder is that who it is? Trader, Yeah he has.
He's one of Scores's guys, like he does a lot
of like taxi driver, Yeah you did, Yeah I did.
So I feel like they're like, this film spoke to
the time of which it was done, and I don't.
I would hate to see it remade. Yeah, I don't

(01:05:11):
think it would be.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
Oh I don't. Yeah, I I and so.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
So this is those one of those wonderful things. Having
not read Dante's Inferno, I didn't make the connection on it. You,
having read it and knowing your films as you do,
you're able to point this out. I need to become
better at my literature and reading more.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
I don't. I haven't.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
I don't think I've read enough classical literature to then
be able to see these connections. Because that's the beauty
of a film like this. I wouldn't never want anything
like this to be remade, and there's no reason to.
This is a film that stands alone and is great.
What I love is the fact that somebody was able
to take uh Dante's Inferno and reinterpret that and imagine

(01:05:51):
it in a different place. I love the fact that
sierraho de bergeract can be reimagined and placed into Roxanne
by Steve Martin. I love of those kind of ideas
of somebody getting the heart and the spirit of this
thing and putting it into their version.

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
But like Apocalypse now is like just part of darkness,
you know, like that kind of thing. Yeah, I mean absolutely,
but I don't I don't know if that was the
writer's intent. I've not read this book, but I will
take a look at it for sure, because I feel
like this is worth going back and reading. Now that
I've seen this movie a couple of times, It's funny,

(01:06:27):
it's this is not like a feel good movie, so
clearly I don't watch it like multiple times a year,
but it is so worth it every time. And I
love being trapped in this frenetic universe of this this descent,
of this poor poor ambulance driver who is so depressed
and so downtrodden. It's such a fascinating universe to be

(01:06:51):
in our microcosm of sorts it is.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
It's great.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
You can feel the escalation and de escalation throughout his
life in how this film unravels and.

Speaker 3 (01:07:04):
It's just another forty eight hours and he just continues
on this cycle like he's in hell.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
Yeah, I promise I'll fire you tomorrow. Cool.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
Well, Gretchen, this was a fantastic pick. You continue to
do better than me. I am paying for the sins
of boon me.

Speaker 4 (01:07:25):
I had to. I had to. I had to bring
it up. It was so it was so brutal, that
was so fertile for both of us. Were just like, yep,
this is this is hell.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
By season five of this show, I'm hoping that you
will finally forgive me.

Speaker 4 (01:07:39):
What are we watching the still shot of them and
they step out of their bodies. I'm so confused. I
read a karaoke joint. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
Tell you, well, that's okay, I'm going to make up
for it on the next episode.

Speaker 4 (01:07:51):
Yeah, what do we watch it? Next month?

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
We are watching Blade Runner. So good, so good. I
have the opportunity.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
I'll be watching Blade Runner in thirty five millimeter at
the Hollywood Theater in Portland, Oregon. It is the final
cut that came out in two thousand and seven. There
was a director's cut that came out prior to that,
but this is Ridley Scott's what he calls the final cut.
I've never seen it before on the big screen. I
am overjoyed to watch this thing in thirty five millimeter. Yeah,

(01:08:23):
and yeah, so we're gonna be talking about that and
I'm really excited about it.

Speaker 4 (01:08:28):
Nice.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
Yeah, Well, everybody, thank you for joining us for this
descent into madness.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
Yeah, thank you all so very much for checking out
this episode. If you don't know, we have ourselves a
brand new Instagram page, so you can go and check
that out if you search for the check the Gate podcast.
And thanks to Gretchen for having made that and populated that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
It's been great. It's nice to have that standalone place now.

Speaker 4 (01:08:53):
Yeah, it's also good.

Speaker 3 (01:08:54):
Please to interact with us if you're interested in talking
to us about films or whatnot. It's a good that's
a good way to reach out as well as Like
we have a website, we also have our own YouTube channel.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
Now we do we have our own YouTube channel now,
and so if you've noticed, we don't have a Patreon.
We're not asking for money. We are creating and doing
this because we love to do it. I love to
make I love to talk about films, and I love
Gretchen and hanging out and talking about films. So that's
what this is. This is all about our love of

(01:09:27):
cinema and our love of talking about cinema. So if
you really want to support us, aside from having either
downloaded the episode or watching it on YouTube, feel free
to share this out anytime you can. Whenever we have something,
if you can share it out.

Speaker 2 (01:09:41):
That would be great. Yeah, because that's how we get
the next folks to check.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
Us out and like and subscribe. Please yes, and listen
to us on on audio format. I mean that has
little commercials in it, but our video is doesn't have
any commercials yet.

Speaker 4 (01:09:57):
Well whatever you take, it's.

Speaker 1 (01:09:58):
True YouTube has no commercial on there. Yeah, so please
by all means help support us.

Speaker 2 (01:10:03):
That would be great, thank you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
So until next time and our Bladed Runner episode. Gretchen,
thanks so much for being here.

Speaker 4 (01:10:10):
Yeah, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:10:12):
Yeah. The Check the Gate podcast is hosted by Martin
Vavra and Gretchen Brooks. The show is directed, produced, and
edited by Martin Vavra. Produced by Galaxy Sailor Productions twenty
twenty five