Check the Gate - Eastwood vs Eastwood

We're back and, holy ghosts from hell on an appoluosa, did we have a run and gun fun one. Gretchen and I watch two films. 1973's Clint Eastwood directorial film in High Plains Drifter and pitted it against the 1985 Nameless Preacher film, Pale Rider. It's Eastwood vs Eastwood in this western mash up podcast episode. Make sure you check out this episode and more. 


Martin and Gretchen talk movies and more at Check the Gate. https://martinvavra.me

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Use our back lot, look at what we already have made.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
He's like, no, I don't want to make that kind
of film. Yeah, but and this obviously shows and I
feel like this is a labor of love.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
The best reason that we get to have this full
blown built city on the shores of Motto Lake and
not a back lot somewhere at Universal Studios or whatever
is because of what we see in the final scene.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Oh yeah, I mean I couldn't leave that out.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Hey, Gretchen, hi Martin, we're back. We're back for another episode,
and this one's a special one.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah. Yeah, because we're kind of doing a comparison. But
also we're going to mainly focus on one film, which
is one of my favorite films. And again I like
to say favorite, but it's literally my top one hundred films.
I get Every once in a while, I'll get asked
by other shows. It'll go, hey, what are your top
one hundred horrors, And I'm like, ah, yes, High Planes

(01:03):
Drifter makes that cut. Yeah, it's well, we'll talk about
more about its horror elements. But High Planes Drifter nineteen
seventy three shop directed by Clint Eastwood.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's part of his long pantheon
of Western films that he was making as well as directing. Yeah,
those and yeah, so hygh Planes Drifter nineteen seventy three,
and then we're going to compare that.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
With Pale Rider nineteen eighty five.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Right, which he also directs.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yes, and he also is the same DP, which is
so funny. Yeah, but yeah, so these these two films
have a lot of things that are in common. They
hold a commonality of story elements that are I almost
feel like the high Planes Drifter set the the like
precedence of trope for it because this film was in

(01:52):
of itself was pretty innovative for its time. It's considered
one of the revisionist Western films from the Hollywood era
classics of like cowboys versus Indians and whatnot, like all
the Sergey Leone stuff, and yeah, that kind of it's
that kind of it is taking the story in a
different route versus a simplistic like shoot him up or

(02:16):
you know whatnot.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, So I've watched both of these films prior to
us so having watched it for the show, But it
was so much fun to revisit these and especially like
back to back. Yeah, be able to compare them, knowing
that there's a like, he's not trying to hide it.
It's a full acknowledgment that this is the Clint Eastwood

(02:40):
unnamed person coming into a situation, yes, situation, Yeah, right,
the unknown stranger. Yeah, I was grabbing for my words. Yeah,
but it is. It's kind of his unknown stranger, which
he plays really well. I mean, that's there's a Clint
Eastwood has really grabbed a hold of that idea in

(03:03):
the Western genre. Yeah, that's kind of his thing. I
can't think of anybody else who is actually known to
embrace that kind of an idea where they come in
as the because in a way, they're almost not even
the lead character. They're the one that's taking us through

(03:25):
the story of whatever is happening in this particular town
in one place, Well, and it's kind of in a
town and then a mining town in Well.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
They're both mining towns.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
They're both mining.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
They hold a lot of That's the thing about these
You're right. I think that why people go like think
these are two like that one is a recreation of
the other one. But I don't see that as any
in that way. It's different, different scripts, different different elements
that come from a I mean, honestly the one. This
is written by the screenplays written by Ernest the Tityman.

(04:01):
He is he wrote the French Connection. He won like
Oscar or like Academy for the French Connection for his screenwork.
But he also he based this off of a like
a true life crime thing that happened in like nineteen sixties.
There was a woman who was killed and had a
bunch of people that were just spectators, and so this

(04:24):
I think you decided to kind of like play on
that as well as using like a little bit of
the kind of symbolism and allegory that like is partly
popular and like the Sergio Leone type style films.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I also just had a realization too,
which I guess we can get in to. Maybe we
can get into it right now with realizing that because
you're right there's we've got a high Planes Drifter and
we've got Pale writer, and both of those have to
deal with a mining town and a stranger comes in
and the realization that I had right well, and in

(04:57):
High Planes Drifter, he comes into town and they kind
of recruit him after he ends up killing the two guys,
three guys that were hired to be their protectors, and
so they have to explain to him, we need a protector.
Here's this situation we've got. And then the story unravels
why they had to have those protectors, what the situation

(05:17):
is going on, and then the vindication that's coming. And
with Pale Rider, he's he's not he doesn't go to town.
He's actually out passing by on a mining claim for
some folks. But the bad guys are in town, right,

(05:37):
And so in High Planes Drifter, we start to find
out that the bad guys are in town. You know,
they're they're bad week folks. So it was just a
realization that I just had that town represents where the
bad folks are in these.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
True true I mean more so in the in High
Planes Shrifter, because I feel like those people are we
pretty come. We quickly kind of discovered that there is
that the town has like a secret, and that we'll
kind of get into that. But in the elements that

(06:13):
are president like Pale Rider, he's more of like a rescuer,
like he kind of teaches them. He's a little bit
of a morality tale. He's a you know, he's a
he's kind of an angel, but also you know, woebatide
to the other people, however, he's and whereas an like

(06:35):
high plane strifter, he is way more of an aggressive character.
Comes to me because he comes in immediately like he's
a stranger in town. Everybody's like, who's this guy? And
he immediately kills those two guys, the two like, as
you said, hired help and without much recourse. Honestly, like

(06:57):
you're kind of left with this moment of going, why
did he attack them? But they attacked him, so he
tacked back.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
You know.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, it was kind of a very quick shootout, and
immediately that puts the town on high alert. They're like,
oh right. And so we we have their beginning scenes
of him coming in and kind of get it gets
get it's ugly quick, it gets me very and we realize,

(07:24):
I mean, we realize he's not a nice guy, and
we I mean, I feel like there's so many things
that give birth to this before we even get to
that him getting into town. It's like he kind of
appears on the planes, like he waves rising up. This
discordant score that's happening. It's like this the tone is

(07:45):
set for a very and like when I called it
a horror film, like this is the very beginning of
horror elements that you see. And there's this the lighting
is darker, everything's kind of sundowning. It's but also like
another shoot aspects, there's like this blaze, like blazing sun

(08:06):
kind of like almost like a righteous light of sorts,
like of a like putting a spotlight on on the situation.
I may be reading too much to do it, but
I I mean, I like I watch a lot of
like I liked Sergery or Leone films, like a lot
of love of those kind of style of like close
ups and I love those that angling. And but anyways,

(08:29):
going back to what we're.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Here to read, I know right exactly we're gonna make
whatever story out of this we want.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
It's truly a horror film, I promise, But no, I
mean that's I mean, I've always read this as a
horror film. I mean we start off with like this
woman comes in and she's like bumps them really aggressively,
and she's like and he's like, I'm gonna show you
a lesson and rapes her in the bar, and when
everybody watches, nobody stands up, and so those are what

(08:58):
you first get those moments. It's a realization of knowing
that the town is not what it seems, that it's
not just this like little little town of Largo or
Lago in the middle of nowhere. That there's this element
you've noticed right off the bat, because the way that
people are watching and their cowardice enacting it was very prevalent.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
They are it's a it is a town of cowards,
and we do learn that very quickly. One of the
first interactions that we have once our stranger comes to town,
hands off his horse and wants to have a shave
and a cleanup, you know, coming off of the high
planes and wanting to have a little something, has apparently

(09:47):
the money to pay for it, and just wants to
go in and have a shave. And immediately our barber
is very shaken up by the fact that ourson is
in there to get I mean, what else does this
guy have to do, and yet he is so afraid
and that really you're shaking. I was like, right, but that,

(10:08):
but that that whole framing kind of starts us all
off on what everybody in that town is and and
really it really is showing us everything we need to know.
These people are petrified of anything outside. They're petrified situation.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
Or are they just greedy?

Speaker 1 (10:29):
Well they're what are they greedy for? Because they're petrified,
they're scared. Here's a stranger in town and they've got
those two hired guns that are in there. They you know,
they don't know what's going to be happening because none
of them stand up for anything.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
No, but they but they are the reason why they
I mean, as we kind of dove into this, we
know that the town is greedy. Oh sure, and that's
part of their cowardice.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Absolutely they're yeah. So and with that, what we end
up finding out is that the town has a mine
and that mine is actually on federal property as opposed
to private property. And if the government finds out about that,
they're going to yank the mining claims from it. They
would be able to open it up for others, right,
And the Marshall finds out about it, so they hire

(11:15):
some guys to do in the Marshal to keep it quiet.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
And his death was a slow, brutal death, right, being
whipped to death by a gang. And you know, did
you know that he was played that Marshall Duncan. That
character is played by Clinicewood Stun double Buddy.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
Oh okay, I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, that's so I remember think when I remember watching
this film multiple times, I'm like, is that actually clinias Wood.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
Well, he likes his folks like he he's always had
kind of a close knit with Like you had said,
his DP in this one. That's guy's a DP for
a ton of Clin Eastwood stuff for his his his dramas,
Clinical stud has a ton of like odd dramas that
he did over the years. He did his every which
way but lose the Philo Beto films, Dirty Harry. This

(12:02):
guy was dpeing those films Firefox when he was doing that.
So this guy was covering a range of genres with
Clint Eastwood when he was experimenting all through the seventies,
eighties into the early nineties. And then a lot of
those actors like folks that were part of the Black
Widow Motorcycle Gang. Yeah when he was in the Philo
Beto movies. And yeah, so he he kind of gets

(12:25):
his group of folks to get all of.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
Them are like that. Even his Dee Barton, who did
the score for this is also did the score for
Play Misty for Me and the Thunderbolt and light.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
Oh, Thunderbolt and Lightfoot, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
That film. They he did the scoring for those. Yeah,
totally different, like vibes completely like just wildly different. But
I thought that was neat that he again he likes
to work with the same people. But I don't know
are they all contracted under? Is it Malplo? How do
you pronounce his production company mapolouse?

Speaker 1 (12:59):
Oh, I don't remember the name on it.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
I think it's called like Malpasso or something like that.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
That very well could be.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Anyways, that's his production company and they I wonder if
they're all contracted under that.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
Well they.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
I also think he just likes to like play favors,
just like a lot of.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Directors do that. If it's his production company, he gets
to have whoever he wants. And at that point in time,
Clint Eastwood, especially after High Plane Strifters, really here's some money,
yeah exactly, And so Clint Eastwood was enough of a
powerhouse then he could pretty much work with whoever he
wanted to. And so I think that's why you see
all of those folks, it's because they really like to

(13:39):
you know, it's it's very much James Gunn is very
much a person like that. As we've watched a director
go from some of the early horror and sort of
superhero films that he did to becoming a Marvel now
running that whole DC universe, He's carried a lot of
the same actors and a lot of the same crew.
Germo del Toro is very notable for bringing a lot

(13:59):
of his same crew people with him from Mexico when
he was working down there on indie and little films
to now working in the industry. They're just they get
a good group of people together who have a very
common shorthand language on how they all operate, and those
they're great examples of the rising tide lifting all the boats,
at least all the boats that are in their own marina. Yeah,

(14:23):
you know, you can't do it for everyone, but yeah,
it's pretty great to watch.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
I think it makes for filmmaking. Yeah, I mean, you
know what you know, and you love what you love
and you've got your crew right, you know, I get it.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, and Clint Eastwood and we can talk about a
little bit more once we get to the Pale writer world.
But Clint Eastwood is very known for coming in on
or ahead at the time, and on or under budget.
He's very very known for that, and he's very much
known for his like one or two takes. He doesn't
do a lot of takes. He's very precise. He knows

(14:56):
where he wants his cameras and where he wants his shots.
So when you have cohesive group of people that have
worked together on a lot of these films and they
know each other's personalities as well as their technical abilities,
you just get super dialed in and you can start
making some pretty killer stuff that way.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Well, I mean, for I have to say, for first,
his first Hollywood, like his first directed western, this.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
Is his first one studio pick.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, this is I feel like this was a pretty
freaking high bar he just set. Yeah, I mean honestly,
I mean when you but when you look at like
Pill Writer, it's clean, right, It's like here we go.
All the beats are hit, and it has all those
elements that people are kind of expecting and.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Being very much feels like a studio right.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
Everything kind of has a look, whereas this, to me
feels still has a more of a yeah, high planes
after film feels more indie horror vibe. I keep going
back to calling it a horror film, but I mean
you really look at it, like the coloration, we the setting,

(16:06):
the scenes, the painting, the town read, the catching everything
on fire, like the flashbacks of and the flashbacks of
the death scene, which I think is only for the
audience because I don't get the impression that he's having nightmares.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
No, I definitely think those are that is for us, Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
So that we get the perspective of what the reason
why he's doing all this.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, it's giving us information to the past as to
what may have gotten us to where we are. But
it's also starting to point us toward how is this
going to end? What are we going to end up
seeing in some of this? How how do we how
do we do the setup and then give the payoff
and and have those things all rhyme together? Thank you

(16:52):
George Lucas. The rhyme crazy thing he had a thing. Yeah,
it's like poetry. They rhyme, you know when you when
you tie in your Yeah, you're set up in your payoff.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
That's funny.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yep, I like that.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
That's pretty funny.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
I don't know a lot about him. So when I
hear those kind of like clips make some more human.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
We hang out from time to time. He isn't He
hasn't called in a while. Yeah, since he sold to Disney,
we don't stay in touch anymore. It's just the money
changed that man. So but uh yeah, yeah, well you
brought up music, and I want to talk about the music,
and especially between these two films. Wow right, because the

(17:40):
music and and I and I think the music goes
with actually sort of where we were leaving off there
a little bit in how these things feel in the studio,
because High Planes Drifter feels like a film that's taking
risks and and it has a vision, whereas, like you
were saying, Pale Writer feels more like it's on the
beat and has kind of a studio feel.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
To it, and it hits all the tropes that were
expected of a of a Western of like of that era.
Sure we got a little smarter, a little harder, whereas,
like you know, before then, the plots were very simple,
like they were shoot them ups.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, well I don't consider it to be simple and
a shoot them up with High Planes Drifter. But it's
a story of risks, That's what I mean.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
But I mean before High Planes Drifter there, because High
Plane Strict is kind of that bar now that is
really that is it is a like the recreationist stuff,
revolutionist stuff. The it has changed the way we see
these films. They're no longer spaghetti. They're no longer like

(18:45):
silly or like John Wayne coming in, you know that
kind of right, we're not getting that anymore.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
Well, because it's supernatural now. And that's I think the
part which is why you have relement. Absolutely, I think
you're totally right, because I love that aspect of this
supernatural unnamed stranger that's come into town, possible angel of vengeance,
and the music as well as the imagery because we

(19:14):
talked about the DP and the imagery on this is
so fantastic, painting the town red. We can talk about
the last scene when we get into all of that
too with all that, because yeah, we definitely got to
talk about that. But how the music also plays into
all of the the scenes and the feeling and the
horror aspect of this western and the supernatural feeling and

(19:36):
High Plane Shrifter is so good. Yeah, it's really good
music and it's not spaghetti. It does it sets excellent
tones it has great foreboding in.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
It creates tension.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Absolutely creates really great tension.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
So bizarre because d he is de Barton is a
is a jazz musician, so it's such a like departure
sound wise, but if you think about it, I mean
maybe not if you think about like discordant jazz, like
how like cacophonists that can sound This has those elements

(20:13):
that you hear in it, especially like the like the
like the high squealing and like those are terrifying and
they build that tension slowly as we're like and I mean, like,
what is a good score you're supposed to do? That's
exacly it's supposed to do. I feel like pill Rider
doesn't have that, Like it's very like symphonic, it's very

(20:35):
like orchestral and like you know, like hises and falls,
like we have a touching, heartfelt scene. So the music
has that kind of vibe to it. And then whereas
this doesn't. This constantly feels very gritty and very like
not melancholy, but like malicious. Like everything is almost like

(20:58):
I hate to say that you can feel the color red,
but you feel the color red from it. You feel
like his vengeance, his anger, at being taken so soon
and being taken in that way.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah, and I think you noted this before. The music
for High Planes Drifter was a score that was created
for the film, whereas High Planes Drifter, I think was
or Pale Writer was purchased music that hadn't been specifically
scored for that film, right, And you can absolutely feel

(21:36):
the difference.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
Well, and I think that was the intention.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Is that.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
I mean, like if you look at like if you
take these like side by sides of them, right, So
I talk about the color red and High Planes Drifter,
whereas Pale Rider everything is very blue and green and
the color tones are a lot more angelic. But his
character in that is a preacher, an.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
Angel named creature.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
He's just yeah, whereas this guy is the Drifter, the
Stranger and Vengeance.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
We have a temperature difference between these two as well.
It was great when you were pointing out High Planes
Drifter and he's coming in off of the snows well
on High Planet. Yeah, it's hot and just that that
heat waves across the desert as he rides in and
rides out of town. And with Pale Rider, we've got
some mostly snow on the ground. It's kind of starting

(22:32):
to melt. So it's like maybe late winter, early spring. Yeah,
and uh so it it has this very cold feel
to it.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Everybody really filthy though in that town you're like, good
they are. Everybody in both towns are like they look rough.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
I think I remember talking about.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
Sweating and High Planes Drifter. Nobody's sweating in Pale Rider
dark and they like, oh they're so dirty and gritty and.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
Stuff like nobody had soap, Like I'm pretty sure Lie
was out by.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
Yeah, you think they were coal miners instead of tin
panters out there on the river.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
But in high Plane's drift there everybody I feel like,
I think I remember saying did they switch makeup people
because their hast this there was a very weird like shift,
and I don't know, And this is probably something that
like clintice Wood saw later and was like because he
is so one take and so like like intentional now

(23:28):
more so I think that are like later more so
whereas I think this he did he let those kinds
of things that continuity slip a little bit on the
like the makeup, like suddenly people were like really undermade,
and I was like, what what what happened? Because like
when we first get into the town, everybody looks pretty
made up for the most part. And then maybe there

(23:50):
maybe it's a reflection of like showing their truth nature.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
They're starting to fall apart a little bit, it could be,
but they're with that with that continuity as you, well,
there is there's because there's a little bit of a
lighting shift, and yeah, I don't consider it to be
a lighting shift. That's happening. That looks intentional. It looks
like we're in a hurry get a light on this
scene right now. We got to shoot this thing because

(24:15):
they're doing a pickup shot or they're behind or something.
And it's most specifically we're talking about at the time
when he's moved into the inn and he's standing there
and they've cleared out all the guests and he's having
a confrontation with the innkeeper and his wife, and it's
that the innkeeper's wife, just the lighting that's coming out
of this hallway and shining on her, and it's like

(24:35):
and it's like they had they like they knew they
had to pick up a couple of lines of dialogue
or they had to add something in, and they were
just like stick that five k in the hallway and
turn it on, but that's five ks too much. Is
like fired up and it's just boom, like this crepig
spot like shooting out of the hallway on there, and
it's like, holy cow, that person is so lit up.
It's really weird.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Not a bad guy, I mean kind of. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
Everybody has questionable morals in.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
This sound and that's very true. So it might have
been an intentional thing that now we can scrutinize. It
becomes easier to scrutinize because we've been handed things so easily,
But in seventy three that might have had there was
probably intention behind it, and now we're just being grumpy
because we've been shown that you can light absolutely nothing

(25:23):
and have no shadows on things, very much like the
Wicked movie. They the way Wicked is lit. Since we're
talking about those those throw this in as a weird fact.
There's like no shadows in Wicked. The whole thing is
lit completely clean on sound stages because it's all you know,
they have sets, but they're built against green screen, so
a ton of green screen stuff is going on. Everybody

(25:45):
is lit with no shadows. They did all of the
shadow work in post production, so there's no shadows, so
everything is manipulated in posts. So you know, there's a
lot we take for granted in those early days.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
Of filmmaking kind of say, I don't really like those
I don't like Wicked, but I mean I'm not a
Wicked movie fan. I've I liked to play I mean
it was fun, yeah, but yeah it I don't know
if I like films that are like that though as
much anymore. Yeah, I mean, maybe it's a maybe it's
my age showing or whatever, but like I have a

(26:22):
preference to beautiful camera work and beautiful lighting and sets
and props, and the the art of special effects of
like practical effects.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
Practical effects. Yes, we talk about that often here.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
I feel like that's something we're deeply like coming away
from as we as as film progresses and changes and whatnot,
and the audience's interest changes. And I mean back then,
like single shots were beautiful and perfect and what people wanted.
Where is like nowadays the cameracy moving so much that

(27:04):
people get bored if if if it's.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
Not Yeah, that's actually a really great point. I'm so
right now I'm in the process of pre production for
a short film that I'm shooting the second week of June,
and a lot of how I am mapping out this film,
it's it has four actors and they're all kind of
they all end up coming together in the same place

(27:28):
in one room, and it's four siblings interacting with each other.
So it's really important to kind of have them in space.
And so I'm working really closely with my DP, camera
operator and my assistant director to really map out how
our story unfolds and giving people things to do while
the actors explore their characters, because we're going to be

(27:48):
doing kind of longer shots. We're not doing one shots
like we're trying to pull off something. But a very
good example of a film is like Roxanne, which Steve
Martin's take on Sero diverge, where the shots are just
longer and people have things to do, and we kind
of hang with the characters a little bit longer because
there is some movement and there's some interest in the
dialogue and it's an interesting story. They're interesting people who

(28:11):
are living in those characters. So we're not doing what
I call the Liam Neeson seventeen take to get over
a fence move from taking you know, there's seventeen cuts
in a shot to get Liam Neeson over a fence,
and we've gotten really used to that kind of Jason
Born where it's just got to be this frenetic cut, cut, cut,
cut cut.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Do you think it's because I don't mean to diverge
from this film too much? But do you think it
is because the audience is like they're just they get
bored so fast. And I'm assuming, because I'm an old.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
Lady, it is our attentions have been changed. I think
that means a lot for films. You know, I think
it would be almost impossible to make a high plane
drifter today, absolutely, especially with some of just like that
early content that that.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
First ill six weeks.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Right, they shot it in six weeks. They built that
whole city like a lot of times people and you
had pointed out too, when they built that that town,
not city, when they built that town of Lago, they
built the interiors on those it's not facades. They built
the interiors because they shot all the interiors out in
that too, and they probably had some breakaway walls and
a couple of places where they could shift things. But

(29:25):
for the most part, that whole town of Lago on
the shores of Mono Lake in California is completely a
physical one representation that they built out to shoot inside
and out. Hardly anybody does that anymore. They'll do facades,
but then if they're doing interiors, they'll build those interiors
in a sound stage, and then they'll print out like
a big backdrop that hangs out out the window, and

(29:47):
then they'll just throw like a couple of ten k's
out there for daylight, or they'll have a bunch of
pinholes through stuff so that they can have their nighttime stuff.
And they shoot none of those things in true interiors anyway,
and it's all in a sound stage, and of course
you know the green screen and everything else, so they're
controlling things a lot more. But they're also not necessarily

(30:08):
telling good stories. Everything is about the frenetic pace of
how things move and cut and flash and do things,
as opposed to oftentimes telling us interesting stories.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
Well and beyond that, like, there are people who specialize
in lighting films that do have an art to it.
I mean, look at Let's I mean, I'm not a
big fan of the movie Nosferatu. I know this probably
sounds crazy, but the DP on that. Wow, there are

(30:40):
shots that look like literal photographs because they are well
lit roads. Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Yeah, right, the light that's practical. That's right, and that's
a practical effect.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
And I mean that's the stuff that I feel like.
It's like and when we see that, people are like, wow,
this movie is so good, and they're so they're able
to kind of oversee over, like look past, like the
silly things that are in it. And so it's that's
that was, That's what the point of those kinds of
art is. Like those though, I feel like that is
what's getting lost in filmmaking in general, like the art

(31:12):
of lighting a set, the art of the matte painting,
the all of that stuff is just going by the wayside,
except for you have a few art like in those,
you have a few directors that bring it back, and
then that's dubbed an art house film or whatever the
case may be.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Yeah, now, Sinners is a really good example. I can't
remember if you've seen.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Some, Yeah I have.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
Sinners is a great piece of cinematic art. It's nearly
a flawless film. It's fantastic. It's just it's and it's
so beautifully shot and the DP on that was the
same DP. It's kind of a very much so. Yeah,
it's it's you know, nineteen thirty nine Chair Cropper, Mississippi. Yeah,
and it's so beautiful to look at. That film is

(31:56):
so gorgeous. It's so gorgeous, and it's gorgeous to Ryan
Kogler talk about how he mapped out that film and
how he thought about his shots and what they all represented,
and the times when he shot between the Imax seventy
millimeter and then thirty five millimeter full frame.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
Are we ever going to get to this movie it's
seventy millimeter, that's the other question. I don't think that's
ever going.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
To get Oh, I don't know, because they have it
an Imax.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yeah, there's some struggles about it like that getting it
in theaters that are like like Hollywood Theater, trying to
get the seventy milimeters.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
Oh, I'd love to see the simeter of this film.
That would be so.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
Odd, but it's so pretty.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah. Well, the thirty five millimeter is because I've seen
two screenings of the thirty five millimeter print that they
have at the Hollywood, which they got after the digital
releases to the cinemas. As soon as the thirty five
millimeter came out, I was like, nope, I'm there.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
Yeah, this is these kinds of film scream need to
be screened in that format. And again there's just it's
kind of like, you know, I mean, is it our
generation sure that we were like, we're holding on to
our vinyl records and our vhs and our thirty five
millimeter because we want that texture, that that full experience.

(33:10):
You can't I don't feel like you can mimic that
perfectly and on a digital format, at least not to
my I think My Uncanny Valley sets in too easily,
and I'm like, oh, book, that doesn't look like like
that looks so fake. Like I feel like sometimes I'm
watching a movie and I'm like, am I watching a
cartoon or a movie?

Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Like I get like that's how sometimes that divide is
so intense. I mean the fact that sometimes like they're
green screening off like people's limbs, and I think that's
like smart. But like I mean, back in the day,
what do we do we like tied it behind right?

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Yeah, Oh my goodness, there is a there is a film.
This is where diverging a little bit, we'll pull back.
I was listening to a podcast here recently where they
reviewed a film that was made in two thousand and
two and two early two thousands, maybe a little later,

(34:04):
near two thousand and ten, somewhere in there. Anyway, it
was like early two thousands. Oh my goodness. It's called Tiptoes,
and it stars Gary Oldman as a person with dwarfism. Okay,
and he does the whole movie with a pair of

(34:27):
pants that are truncated at the knees so that he's
got a fake set of feet on him, and he
walks around the whole film on his knees, and then
he's got his shoulders kind of pinned back, and they
give him a little bit of a hump to have
part of the degenerative or like a musculature issue that's

(34:49):
part of his character. But he does the whole film
Tiptoes as a person with dwarfism. Yeah, cringe, cringey. He's
supposed to be the twin brother of Full Size Mat
to you McConaughey, Oh my god. Yeah, it's a real
Why have I not seen this?

Speaker 2 (35:06):
I need to see this.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
It's one of the most disturbing trailers I've ever seen.
It's a full blown feature film. Wow, full blown feature film.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Wow. I need to see this, so write that down
so to say it wholly completely.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
Practical effects are great, but that doesn't mean you can
make every movie.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
But also Gary Ovid, Yeah, you know it's that's hard.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Oh boy.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah, I mean, and that's one of those things. It's like,
I wonder if that's like a is that because our
generation was that that we saw those kinds of films
and that was what we're inspired by. And you know,
the new era of filmmaking is a little different. I mean,
I feel like they harken. Some directors are trying to
recall that, reclaim that, as I said earlier, but yeah,

(35:53):
it's a I don't know. Going back to this though,
set completely made, oh man, yeah, for weeks of shooting. Yeah,
set completely made.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yeah. Yeah, high Plane Drifter. I started to say, pal yeah,
high Plane Strifter.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
Well, high Plane Drifter was shot in like.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
Colorado, Mono Lake, California.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
No, I'm sorry, Pale Rider was shot in Colorado.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
Oh boy, see this is gonna happen. Don't come for
us audience, this we promised.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
We do the Geography podcast.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
Yeah, I do know that there was some scenes that
he had to shoot, like different lakes and to get
some of the shots to the lake aspects of high
planes drifter, but those were just like some like you know,
just quick shots. They weren't like trying to move pieces
out to the particular to shoot just to get what
a principle what they call those like.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
Photography principle they were doing. But yeah, yeah, they built
the built the town of Lago right there on the
shores of Mono.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
Lake, which is a little bit outside of Universal, which
is kind of funny because Universal Studio is working with
his mouth. Oh Malpasso, this word is going to mess
me up. Oh boy. Malpasso Productions was working with Universal
to make this film. But Universal was like, hey.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
What do you use And he was all right, no,
use our back lot, look at what we already have made.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
He's like, no, I don't want to make that kind
of film. Yeah, but and this obviously shows and I
feel like this is a labor of love. Let's talk
about like some of the fun actors that are in
this one.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
Well, and right before we second that, I do want
to talk about the town one more time. We can
leave it alone because the great. To me, the best
reason that we get to have this full blown built
city on the shores of Mono Lake and not a
back back lot somewhere at Universal Studios or whatever is
because of what we see in the final scene.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Oh yeah, I mean I couldn't leave that out absolutely.
I mean, I don't want to give too much of
the story away because I feel like people need to
see this film. But it's it's pretty like you can
see all the everything kind of falling into place throughout
the film. But I the the flames. So they he
paints the town red and or he orders the town

(38:13):
he paint red, which comes up like we're like, one
shot town is red, one shot Town's not red. Like
they get to work. Yeah, I mean of anything. I
suppose the they deconstruct one of the buildings to create
a picnic scene or like a dinner scene to welcome

(38:36):
back the bad guys or back the gang.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
Right.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
I mean, do we do we need to explain the
plot of this movie?

Speaker 1 (38:43):
Well, I don't think we need to explain the plot,
but I think it's what you're saying is great. You know,
he says we're going to paint the town red. I
want everything, everything, but they but one of the people says,
where you're going to make this place look like hell?
He's like, oh yeah, And they even change the sign
out in the front where they cover over logo with

(39:05):
scrape it up right hell and it because it really
leads to that it's not the final shot, but it's
the final shot with our bad guys. It's kind of
the confrontation shot where he burns the town down.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
But also think about it this way, he the town
is obviously we find we kind of as we as
we get to this scene, we find out that the
town is not what it seems. That people have argued,
corrupted and whatnot, and so like the he knows that

(39:39):
they are setting up these gang guys to get killed anyways.
Like so I think he's like, yes, he's opening up
having a town dinner for them, a welcome party, so
to speak. But he's also like, if you think about it,
like he I'm trying to place words, it feels like

(40:03):
he's acknowledging that they're coming to their deaths.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
In that respect, he's exposing their cowardice. Yeah, He's gonna
make this big banquet.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
For everyone, like this is the last supper.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Yeah, it is. It's well, sort of, it's kind of
everything is about humiliation. Really at this point in time,
he's humiliating them. They're cowards. They're not going to stand
on top of the buildings and shoot at these guys they've.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Had they try to do it. Well, he tried to
teach them, right, try to teach them. He put them
in and put the dummies in the car, and nobody
hit those dummies.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
Sure, and they could have done this the whole time.
They've always had guns, they've always had ammo. They could
have shot their marshal and buried him if they wanted to.
They were cowards. No one wanted to pull the trigger.
They hired somebody else to do it. Here it is.
They know these guys are about to get out of
jail and they're probably going to come back for vengeance,
and none of them have the courage to be able
to stand up there on that building with the same
guns and all the ammo that they haven't shoot at them.

(40:57):
So here we are again. They've hired two people. Those
are the one that our stranger kills in the beginning
because they come after him. So now they've got him
and he's just continuing to expose their cowardice and humiliate them.
And this dinner is a humiliation broad daylight right in
the middle of town.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
As the as the bad guys, as the gang comes
into town. I keep calling them bad guys, but I
almost feel like everybody's a bad guy.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah, there are no good there good people. There's kind
of one person that's that's sort of good, and that
is our Malachi character. Yeah, he's kind of good. He
is the most unfortunate person in there who gets elevated
by Clint Eastwood. But then again, everyone is saying, once
a stranger is not in town anymore, you just remember
who you got to live with. Yeah, so you know,

(41:43):
and that person we see them hiding at the time
when we see our little flashbacks of the Marshall being killed.
But at the same time it's a person who has
dwarf ism. You know, they're about three feet tall, and
there's nothing that he is going to be able to
do against three guys with bull whips and pistols. Yeah,
there's nothing he can do. So of any of the
people that are spectating or living in their cowardice, his

(42:09):
his would be expected.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
But also like in their spectating and in their cowardice,
there are these moments of where when the camera flashes
over each person's face, some of them are in shadow
and some of them are in light, and then the
ones that are in light are like taking almost like
a delight and watching this because they don't they want this.
Marshall gone, yeah, so that he can't tell the federal

(42:31):
government about the claim or about the gold.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
I agree. They don't feel guilty about them, no, So I.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Mean they're just desserts. Are kind of they're just deserts.
I mean again, like I feel like that's why that
set was set to be like a last supper, like
because he knew he was going to burn this ding
dang town down. So that sets that stage for these
guys to come into town and kind of like in

(42:59):
Pale Rider, we have like a final confrontation with the
guys who are the the deputies of John Russell, like
you call it. I can't remember the what the what
the stock Stockwell?

Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, yeah, he's sheriff Sheriff Stockwell and his deputies.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Yes, was Husbilly Drego.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
It is always weird to see, if anything, because it's
just such a creep like plays such like creepy guys.
He doesn't even talk. Speaking of not talking, actually, did
you realize that, like for the first seven minutes of
like High Planes Drifter, there's no like he doesn't even
talk at all. No, not at all, which I think
is just again some genius. I'm starting to see more

(43:44):
and more as I talk about this film, how much
why I love this film. Maybe I'll raise its rate
of my one hundred maybe up to like a ninety.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
Yeah, even you know, there's he's He's asked questions. Yeah,
the barber even asked questions.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
Of him, like a little cigarette in his mouth and.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
Right, yep, how about some lavender water smells really nice?
Ladies always like it? No, okay, goes to put it away,
you know. Yeah, he never gives an answer. He just
kind of looks at folks, and that's it.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
I think the only thing that somebody I've ever hear
sad trivia that was that somebody pointed out was like
there was the shaving cream changes places on some of
the shots, and I was like, well, I mean, honestly, like,
did I notice that? No, I'm like somebody else had
to tell me, because yeah, I'm obviously more like focused
on other things. I don't need that, like those small

(44:33):
continuities to be standing out for me.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
That's such small continity. Like you have to shoot from
so many angles, and you have to do.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
Your shot on your face, yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Putting yeah, putting shave soap on somebody's face, like and
if you're if you're having a nitpick that, yeah. I
mean I love watching my my films and dissecting him,
but I'm not willing to to cut him across that much. Yeah,
it took you more time to write that thing up
in the goof section of IMDb that it did for

(45:04):
any of us to notice it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
I don't think it was in the goop section. I
think it was like some somebody. I was reading somebody's
critique of the film, and I was like, oh, well,
I didn't even really I didn't even notice that, And
then went back when we were rewatching it, I was like, oh, okay,
but it's not that big of a deal. I mean,
it's like it's like that's small things. I mean, there

(45:26):
are so many great things that I that you this,
those are the things you don't even notice. I mean,
to me, at least, I'm not that audience member that's like,
you know, I don't I don't notice.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
That's all the shaving creams out of place.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
The light being blasted with a light. Yeah, I noticed
that stuff. But I again, I think that might have
even been like a choice, like a like a some
kind of metaphor for somebody, like having you know, having
having the spotlight on them and like showing their true
colors and things like that, like what they look like

(46:01):
in the dark light. That's why part of me is
like maybe that makeup continuity, because I did notice the
makeup continuity, But I think it's just because like it
was so dramatic at least the shift. I mean, did
you think that looked.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
Oh absolutely, Okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
I'm just like, am I just drawn drawsier?

Speaker 1 (46:22):
No, it was. It was a very bizarre shift. And
again understanding how films are made, that could have been
something where they had done the original shot and they
something happened or they changed the script while they were
doing it and saying we missed this, we need to
do that. Something's not working, so they just did this
quick pickup shot where they're like, we just need to
do this scene. Here's what our lines are. Just get

(46:43):
that light in here, just shoot that thing. Let's just
do that totally. And they could have come off of
a totally different scene and they were just like, go, go,
go go. We got to pick this thing up, and
they pick up that shot, and you know, it's that
there weren't special effects like there are now, so you
don't get to doctor your shot. And it shot on film.
So whatever was on the celluloids on the celluloid. I

(47:03):
think most people in seventy three watching that aren't going
to be bothered by that. Either. It's noticeable to me,
you know, but it's noticeable to me in twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Right, and you're also a director, so.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
Yeah, you know, sometimes things are kind of ruined for
me because I know how that.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
I wondered about that, like because you know how the
sausage is made, Like is that? I mean I only
have a small, small insight to that, but I feel
like with you do you are there sometimes you're like,
what like that camera angle? I mean I'll see like
a if I see like a boom operator in the shot, I'm.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Like, oh boy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
I think there was like some movie called like Tiger
something Tiger Storm or Tiger. It was like a like
a kung fu film. I was watching literally the boom
guy in the shot in like that it was ridiculous. Yeah,
like ridiculously in the shot it was I think it
was even like a vinegar syndrome re released to it.

(48:01):
I guess they were just like leave it in. It's funny.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
Yeah, there are shots where there are. It depends on
the films. There are times where most people won't notice,
but I'll be watching it and it's like, man, I
can see in the glare of that window, I can
see the crews sitting there. There's a shot in The
Untouchables where they're in Sean Connery's apartment and they're doing
this big exterior and they're moving across there and they

(48:25):
go by the windows and it's like I can see
the whole gimbal rigs set up with everybody moving across
the shot in the glass you see. But most people
don't ever notice that, and they're all, do.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
They remove that for the mastering of it? Like that's
what happens oftentimes in remastering films, Like do they time
They'll catch those little reflections and like whoop, fix those.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
With a little bit of a Possibly, It depends on
what their budget is, and if they have the time
to do it. Most people don't notice those things. I'll
see a boom reflected off of like a car door
or something through a windshield a house. There's all sorts
of little things like that that I'll notice from time
to time. And I don't criticize anyone for that because

(49:11):
I know that they spent like three hours trying to
light that scene and then some audio guy had to
spend two minutes while they're like, Okay, we're ready to go,
and now they're like, oh crap, Now I got to
figure out how to get around all of this stuff
and not have my shadow on the wall here. But
I got a boom to this person over here, and
I thought, like, you know, it becomes this impenetrable maze
of stuff that you try to do. Oh and you're

(49:33):
in a wide shot. So now I can't be anywhere
near this person, but I have to have the mic
near them. Yeah. So it's it's so difficult to be
able to pull that stuff off.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
But that I think is what modern films now don't
have to worry as much about.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Well sometimes because they can fix you can take a
lot of that stuff out. I mean even you know,
because I've even just the other night we were talking
about that where we do something like if you have
to have something like this and you film your shot
and your person has to be in there, and for
whatever reason, you've got maybe a shadow of your boom
or the zeppelin is a little bit in like there's

(50:13):
something you can shoot what's called a clean plate where
you have those people move back out of the way
and you didn't move your tripod or your sticks or whatever.
You just shoot that without that. So now that shadow
is not there. So then you go back and you
just cut that place out, You cut out your boom person.
There's now a hole in your digital footage, and you
slide the other clip in behind there where that shut

(50:35):
it takes that out, and you just kind of put
a mask in there to clean all of that stuff up,
and now your shadow goes away. And so yeah, you
can do fantastic things like that. Now that's where effects
come in really handy to be able to do work
like that.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
That is makes really beautiful films as well. I mean that,
I mean, I know it is criticizing digital filmmaking, but like,
and there are elements of digital Filmmaking Network, like like
we see this in again not my favorite movie, but Nosaratu,
Like there are those moments of like, good job digital effects,

(51:15):
because that would have been ugly and messy. I mean,
things being too dark and you being able to fix
those in a like in a digital format, whereas like
on films like High Planes Drifter, we are reliant upon
like lighting gels things like that to create tone in things.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
Yeah, and I love the aspects of it, I'll tell you.
I so there are a couple of films they just
weren't made for me. Yeah, Battle angel Alita. I remember
when that film was being talked about, and that was
a James Cameron film that was coming out there. I

(51:58):
was really excited because the idea of and I didn't
know about the graphic novel. I hadn't read it. Yeah,
I hadn't read it, but the premise sounded amazing and
it was going to be a James Cameron film, and
I was super excited. And then he let that go
because he was starting his whole Avatar world at that
point in time. He was full fledged into that. So
it went to Robert Rodriguez, who's made some good films

(52:20):
that I've enjoyed, not always but for the most part,
and a skilled director who has done a lot of
practical stuff and battle angel Alita was not a film
that was made for me, because it does it's it's
not an animated film, but it is all a digital
computerized film and it doesn't and it has live action

(52:42):
people in a world that's been completely created out of animation,
and it's not an interesting one like the old Disney
ones where we've got Mary Poppins dancing with hand animated
cell stuff. It's meant to feel very real, and none
of it feels real at all.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
It triggers my Unkenny Valley.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
Bad absolutely and it and it feels, yes, that Uncanny
Valley for sure, that whole film just and they're trying
to make a good film. They're they're really working hard
to make a good film, but it feels so flat
and so frenetic, like there's just there's all these things
are happening and stuff doesn't look real, and it's like

(53:21):
I don't know what's important or who's important or what
like none of this it just feels like a mess
to me. And it's so hard. Now it takes a
film like that being made for them to go, oh,
we're gonna work on this technology or do something better
this way, or maybe we should have Like I get it,
and but it's it's a it's it's tough. Those are

(53:41):
tough films for me to watch.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
Like that was Xmakina after Alita or before Alita.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
I think that movie probably are really close to around
the same time, but I think it came out before then.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
That was done way better.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
That movie is so beauty, beautiful the work on.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
Don't get me wrong. I love Rodriguez. I love Rodriguez,
like filmmaker well, he is a fantastic person in the
sense that he is very passionate about films and like
I absolutely love to listen to him talk about films,
and I mean, I like, I want to be here
when I grow up he's probably, but yeah, like he

(54:25):
I love hearing him discuss films and how much he
loves films. So for me to like when you see
like if you took take these two films, you take
you know, ex Machina and then you take Battle Angela Alita,
it's like there, this is just so much better done
that that's green screen compositing of like adding the digital

(54:48):
like adding making an android look real but also look
like an android.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
Yeah. Alex Garland is an excellent filmmaker, not just writer,
but to be honest, that is one of those where
I don't know how they made that film ex Machina
so good and so beautiful and so seamless. It's so
beautiful and that makes the horror that much more horrifying.

(55:18):
It's so beautiful. Yeah, And Robert Rodriguez is a really
great film director and he so he's kind of like
an inspiration when it comes to filmmaking because he was,
you know, making his first film for like twenty five
thousand dollars out there rare, yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
But also the Western element to absolutely.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
He's you know, and that leads on to later having Desperado.
So he's he is a really gritty, right, you know,
in the trenches filmmaker, and he's had a positive influence
in the Star Wars world and what he's been doing
absolutely excellent. But it's but u because it's not just
Battle angel Alita. They're after that was Ready Player one,

(56:02):
that was a very difficult film. It's the same kind
of digital effects film that's just frenetic and chaotic, and
I can't tell what's going on from one place to
the next, and nothing feels real. And that's one where
they're supposed to be in a virtual reality world anyway,
But if you want me to virtually think I am

(56:22):
in that world, the uncanny value was there because it
felt like it was trying to be real in a
virtual reality. But it's like, I don't feel like I'm
in something virtual. I feel like you're trying to make
me think these are realistic, photo realistic people, photorealistic characters
and all of this stuff while being hyper realistic with

(56:45):
the fact that they're in this digital world of you know,
people with you know, saw arms and you know, laser
beam eyeballs and all of this, and it just doesn't
land for me. It's really difficult because I can watch
a high Plane Strifter and while I have my discomfort
in the beginning with that assault scene, that movie is

(57:07):
so grounded and so real dealing with that supernatural idea.
It's just so good, Like I'll take that film any day.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
Horror movie. Yeah, I'm gonna hands down, I call that
a horror film.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
Yeah, and I'm going to agree with you it is.
It is a horror film. With a Western setting.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
Absolutely. I mean there's horror westerns. We got plenty of it.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
Oh absolutely.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
I have I think that any genre film can subgenre
out of horror. Yeah, for the most part.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Yeah, Bone Tomahawk is a horror movie. That's set it.
I can't watch that movie ever again. What that movie disturbed?

Speaker 2 (57:46):
It's pretty intense.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
Yeah, that kind of wrecked me. And when I every
now and then, I'll see like a scene will come
up from that trailer fantastic actors. Uh that there's an
actor in there. I'm not going to get his name
this time, which unfortunate because he's actually the star of
Dark Winds and it's a series right now. He's a
he's a local sheriff and Dark Winds it is so good.

(58:12):
It is such a good show. They just finished season three,
they're getting a season four. Like he's phenomenal. But then
I see like a clip come back from Bone Tomahawk
where he's in there, and I'm like, man, he's a
good actor, but oh man, that film messes me up.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
It's pretty gory.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
Yeah, and it's one like I can make it through
most of that film, but you know what I'm talking about.
When they finally get into the caves with those folks
and it's like never again, never again. But that's a Western,
it's a horror western true story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did
you want to talk about the characters, because I kind
of sidelined us. I wanted to talk about the city.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
I think the characters are they are they? I mean,
I feel like there's not much to them. They're already
one sided there. There's not much depth to the townsfolks
like we. The only people you actually get much side
story on is Malachi. And we may be get his
name wrong, so y'all don't freak out, but I think

(59:14):
his name is Malachai. I feel like that. That feels right.
But I'm all like, oh wonder.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
He's the guy with MOI. It was one of those
good biblical names. Yeah, we go. We'll go back in
and in all the places where you where you're saying Malachi,
I'll just take this Mordechai section in there. You lips
won't match up, and.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
That's our post editing. Yeah, oh boy. I think honestly,
as far as character is, the only people that had
much depth to them was Mordecai, and we weren't allowed
to have much depth on this stranger himself, because again,
like when we are getting those flashes of him being
as Marshall Duncan, he is being be to death.

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
He's kind of our narrator. Really. We don't spend a
lot of time with him because he's the guy getting
us through story.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
But we don't get to know anything about anybody really,
And I think that's kind of the purpose, is that
this town is so one sided, they are so greedy,
they don't have much going for them.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Yeah, well we get we get a little bit because
we have our moments where we have like the little
town meetings where they're discussing what do we do next,
and we start to see they are right. Yeah, and
we get to see like the lead person of town
who's kind of you know, we're all cowards. I'm the
vocal coward in town, and we all agreed as cowards,

(01:00:44):
is this is how we're going to do it. So, okay, cowards,
is this what we're doing? Yeah, we're all doing that. Okay, cowards. Great.
You know, so there's kind of a couple of mouthpiece
cowards yeah in town. And it's not the sheriff, the
new sheriff in town he's the sideliner. He's he's kind
of a little bit of like the the I guess,
the the muscle for the one person who's not even

(01:01:06):
the mayor's Yeah, you know it's the guy. It's the
dude from Lethal Weapon down the road.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
Yeah, he's like the.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Is he the shop No, he's not the shop owner,
because we see the shop owner when we've got the
indigenous folks that are there.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
He's the owner of the hotel.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
No, he's not the he's not the hotel owner. That's
a different guy who has the mayor's wife. I is he?
I thought he's not the grocery shop owner. Man, I
don't remember who that guy is. So we really spend
any kind.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Of right Like, again, they're not developed very much, but
that's okay. We don't need them to be because we
recognize their fault and so that's the point of this movie.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Is this vengeance, the hierarchy of cowardice.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
This is vengeance. This is you know, the cantos of
one of the cantos of Hell kind of situation like
it is this is the the town of This is
Hell and vengeance.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
Yeah, it's a great film. It really is a great film.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
I feel like I had to convince people that to
watch this at times, Like I have friends that have
like were like High Planes Drifter. I'm like, yeah, like
I love this, and people don't realize that I kind
of like Westerns, but I like Italian Westerns mostly. Yeah,
so I am a leone kind of fan, like I
love like I love the those kind of almost gellow

(01:02:25):
like aspects of like Italian Western films, little do lorentous
type stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
Yeah, so I have to say I like those kind
of films, the Italian the spaghetti Westerns as they were called.
I like those films. I like High Planes Drifter more
than I like the John Wayne.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
Westernise John Wayne films. I mean, they're fine, He's fine.
I just I'm just not a like all the same.
They're just that's that's exactly. That's why this is considered
a revisionist like western is because this takes Western films
and a direction that people were not expecting. Yeah, this
takes Westerns into an era that were we were seeing

(01:03:09):
just cowboys versus Indians, and like then we're seeing like
a different light of this. I mean, I just I
find it so damn brilliant and I know that some
people don't really like Clint Eastwood, but like the beginning
of Clint Easwood was he's a fucking great director. Oh yeah,
I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
He's a great actor and a great director.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
He's got a lot of range. Now maybe not to
mue range only old man.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
Well he's ninety three. Ah right, I don't even.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
Think he's acting anymore, which is good because yeah, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
He Stopped at the Mule was this last film that
he did, which I think he directed and starred in
that one as well. Yeah, but yeah, no, he's great.
I've enjoyed your stuff. I remember back in the day
a film of his that I loved was Heartbreak Ridge.
I watch Heartbreak Ridge all the time. I don't have
any idea why. There was something about that film that
I just really loved watching Heartridge. And I'm not a

(01:04:01):
military guy, and I don't like war movies for the
most part, but there was something about Clint Eastwood and
Heartbreak Ridge that was just something that, you know, back
in the day that was you know, I had friends
who had HBO, so like played on HBO a whole bunch.
Oh yeah, you know one of those Firefox. I watched
Firefox a bunch of times on Friends HBO. You know,
I had to go over because I lived in the country,

(01:04:22):
so we'd go over to their house to go watch something,
you know. So and he was man, he was having
a hell of a run in the eighties and nineties.
Clint was doing all sorts of stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
I haven't liked his later film, Like I loved Grand
Chorino Grant Turino.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
So Grant Torino is a good film. Yeah, you know,
the some of the I don't care for some of
the performances that are in there. Yeah, I like some
of the moments. Terreno is a film that has these
really great moments everybody remembers Get off my lawn.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
Well, I mean because it's like the boomer like right,
like spokes.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
Absolutely, It's like that thing. Is that that is part
of our lexicon now people who probably haven't even seen
the film nor that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Kind of like the old man yells of cloud.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
Right exactly, people who have never seen The Simpsons the.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
Cloud.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, And unfortunately far too many times the
boomer and now starting to be a little bit X
people are starting to like live those out loud. Yeah, yeah,
you know, I I love high planes Drifter. I love
it a lot more. I loved again comparing this with

(01:05:38):
Pale Writer. Pale Writer is a good film. It's not
a film that I would revisit. I wouldn't have no
need to rewatch Pale Writer for any reason whatsoever.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
I've watched it twice and I'm like, Okay, I like it. Okay,
it's great. Yeah, it's very by the book. Yes, it's
got the formula. It's by the book. It is the money,
like I think most people remember that film more than
they do High Plane s Drifter, which is kind of
a tragedy. But yeah, go on and see hop Planes Strifter,

(01:06:10):
go on to Plain Strifter.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
Yeah, High Planes Drifter. Definitely, it's a it's a great film.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
Yeah, thanks for watching it with me.

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
Absolutely, thanks for inviting me. No, I love it. And
that's the whole point of all of this stuff, and
seeing these great movies, revisiting some, watching some new ones
that maybe aren't. So we'll talk about that in a
little while. Yeah, it's just wonderful. I love watching movies

(01:06:39):
and I have love watching movies with you. So thanks
for continuing to do this. Yeah, yeah, do I have
to announce what the next movie is?

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
We're going yeah, because that's your choice.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
Dang it. The next film that we are watching is
Uncle Boone Me who Remembers his Past lives. It is
an exploration to a man passing away with kidney cancer
and he explores his existential realities and maybe not so
much realities. It is a deep dive into art world filmmaking.

(01:07:15):
It's gonna be interesting. I'm sorry, No, I'm sorry, it's
it is definitely. It's a It's an experiment in film
watching and that's what we're here for.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
We are here to talk about art.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
We are here to talk about the art of film,
and I love it so much and I love doing
all of this with you. So until the next episode, Kretchen,
thank you so much. To Check the Gate podcast is
hosted by Martin Vavra and Gretchen Brooks. The show is directed,
produced and edited by Martin Vavra. Produced by Galaxy Sailor

(01:07:54):
Productions twenty twenty five. The show is filmed and recorded
at the Propulsion Zone Studio in downtown Portland. Morgan special
thanks to Adam Carpinelli and Alejandro Barragon. MHMM