Check the Gate - Promising Young Woman

TRIGGER WARNING This episode discusses topics about sexual assault. We discuss this matter with care but know that some people can have issues with it being talked about. If you or someone else is the victim of sexual assault of any kind, contact the National Sexual Assault hotline 24/7 at 1-800-656-4673. If you are feeling alone and having thoughts of hurting yourself, call the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline 24/7 at 988.

Hey everyone. Martin and Gretchen are back with a heavy subject matter film, Promising Young Woman. A fantastic film that deals with revenge culture after a sexual assault leads to a person committing suicide. It's heavy topics navigated by the amazing Carry Muligan, written and directed by Emerald Fennell. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
There are so many things I felt like that drew
from noir films that were instigated in like the cinematography.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
In this there's symmetry. Everything has symmetry if you notice that,
like the couches in the chairs that all had the
flourishes and everything on them. Everything was very symmetrical. It
was clean, and it stands in start contrast to those
scenes in the bar because a lot of times when
we're done at one of those scenes where she was
at a bar, she was with someone, we come back

(00:31):
to this place that has this symmetry. Well, hey, Gretchen,
how are you how.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Good I mean feel good movie at the century you
were watching?

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Oh yeah, this is gonna be a tough one. So yeah,
this will be a little bit different than our other discussions.
This one's going to be a little more serious and somber.
But for folks that are new and tuning in for
the first time or finally checking us out, this is
the check the Gate podcast where Gretchen and Martin get
together and watch a movie and we start to discuss it,

(01:11):
and then wherever the conversation goes is where the conversation goes.
We could talk about this film or we could talk
about other films associated or what it reminded us of,
or politics and religion and other things that could come
about with this and today promising young woman is probably
going to generate some conversation with us.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah, so yeah, and there everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, absolutely, And I guess as a disclaimer, since this
was my film and my choice, I can say that
this does deal with essay, sexual assault. This will deal
with those those topics, and if you haven't seen the film,
that does give some of this away, but you should.

(01:59):
You should know that that's a major part of what
happens in the film that's revealed later, and some association
with things similar to revenge porn. So it's very important
that you know going into this discussion as well as
going into watching the film. So with that, yeah, so

(02:22):
I will admit this was I have seen this film
multiple times and the first time, and I've seen this
film and discussed this women this film with women before,
but my experience yesterday was different. With you, if that's
okay to to mention, sure, Yeah, And I felt I

(02:42):
felt actually really bad and I had felt that maybe
to a certain degree, I had stressed our friendship a
little bit well because I don't know that that's necessarily
fair to have had had something like that. And I
have to remind myself that a film like this that
has these kind of topics, even even though I have
had things happen to me in my life in that,

(03:07):
it's not the same as when is what society does
with women and how women are treated. So this so
I needed to be maybe a little bit more sensitive
about how we went into watching this film or talking
about it a little bit more. I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
I honestly, I think that the big takeaway from it.
I mean, I'm going to say that term a lot.
I feel like there's lots of takeaways from this film,
but like for me, what was so raw and the
moment was just like how this wasn't there was no
good ending, like this is a tragedy and multiple tragedies.

(03:44):
And I think that's what kind of hit home for
me is that there was no there was no resolution.
I mean, there was some righteous vindication, there was some
justice in this very small like drop and the like
of experience, but I think that the overall it was

(04:06):
very like unhappy and not feel good movie the year
and no wonder I skipped it. I Honestly, it was
twenty twenty when this film came out, so it was
buried in COVID in general. So you know, I think
I was just like at that time, I was all,
I'm just gonna watch like uplifting or like really ridiculous

(04:27):
horror films, but nothing like nihilistic and just as dark
and sad as this was.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah, yeah, it's do you feel that this movie as
you watch it, and we'll kind of dig into it more,
but we're still kind of going in some broad strokes here.
Is this a movie that up until the reveal of

(04:55):
what really happened with everyone to its full extent? Was
this a movie that, while a drama was easier to
was it was it easier to watch until we kind
of found out the extent of what had happened in
the past. And then it did that turn a corner
for you and go, this is oh so much deeper

(05:17):
and darker.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
No, because she's broken from the beginning, and that is
quick to pick up on your I mean, I think
the only thing that I was expecting that I didn't
see happen, which I was surprised that she wasn't a
serial killer, so I thought she was. I thought it
was going to be like an American Mary kind of
scenario where she's like a serial killer, but it ends

(05:40):
up being like more like she is just putting spotlights
on people, and I think that, gosh, you know, I uh,
I think that it's shows. I don't know how to
put at a that for me, the only turn that

(06:05):
it didn't end. There wasn't any surprise turns for me,
except for the fact that I was anticipating her being
a serial killer because I was like, oh, well, clearly
she's so broken that now she's a serial killer, but
not so much more just highlighting these people's mistakes and
also showing a putting a spotlight on situations where men

(06:28):
were able to take advantage of women. I think that's
I mean. Other than that, I wasn't there wasn't any
surprises in that, And once the story unfolded, what I
think was what hit so hard was just that it
was just such a tragedy, that there was so two
lives lost, and that there was you know, this poor
girl's family, you know, not finding out until the very end.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah. Well, I don't think there are mistakes. I think
it's a film of choices. Sure, and I think since
we've kind of like bounced her and kind of mentioned
the tragedy of the end a little bit, we can
kind of dig in a little bit more on the film.
And as we do this too, I'm fine with us

(07:11):
diverting from the topic matter and talking more about the
technical execution and performances and and and steering away from
anything else that might make the conversation uncomfortable if you want,
so whatever. Yeah, I'm happy to do that because I

(07:32):
so from a technical aspect, I did love this film.
It is a gorgeously amazingly executed film. It is absolutely amazing,
and well, can we talk about the performances first? Is
that okay? Because I think these are absolutely amazing. So

(07:54):
Carrie Mulligan stars in this film. She is our protagonist
that we're following through all of this stuff. And I've
known who Carrie Mulligan is for a long time. I've
seen films with Carrie Mulligan. She's always been really great.
But this film, for me, made Carrie Mulligan become that
one of those actors where I'm like, give him everything,

(08:17):
give them anything, you know. I have a few actors
that are like that where I think that they should
just be able to get every role in any role
that they want. And Viola Davis one of those actors.
It's like, if Viola Davis wants it, she just should
get it. So Carrie Mulligan's performance in this is so.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
Good everybody I feel like, Yeah, there wasn't a single
person that didn't feel believable. Everybody felt like themselves. I
mean even seeing like Jennifer Coolidge and Clancy Brown like
being these like parents, like playing Carrie Mulligan's character's parents.
They even felt real to me too, because they felt

(09:03):
like parents that are trying to relate to their child
who has gone through a trauma and they are trying
to be sensitive but also being like you're thirty, it's you.
It's a long time come and move out. Yeah, Like
her birthday gift, you know, being the suitcase.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
I thought that was we want you to be able
to travel and leave the house have fun.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Well, and so I'm a huge Connie Briton fan. Yeah,
I think Connie Britain first for me, came in and
Spinned City is the first time that she was ever
in anything that I can remember recognizably. She ended up
being in the first season of American Horror Story. She
was also oh yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
As a teacher, as the dean of the college. Yeah yeah,
she's great.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
She's great.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Everybody felt like a person. Like you know how sometimes
you see a film and you're like, these characters are
so ub to us or they're sodiculously like parodied of
a person that they don't feel very like relatable. Everybody
in this felt relatable. Everybody felt I mean, you've met

(10:13):
these guys at the bar, You've seen these frat brothers
that act like this. These are all things that are
very unfortunately very like spot On.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah yeah. And the setup and the premise with the
world that they live into is very realistic. And that
being that we're with Carrie Mulligan's character who is still
grieving the loss of a friend, Nina, which we learn about,
and we learn about that she is intergrieving process. We
don't necessarily know how long it's been, but it's been

(10:46):
long enough that there were a group of people who
were in college together and her best friend, Nina, has
taken her life, which we learn eventually, but we know
that she's at a minimum she was lost in some
way that she she was no longer with them, and
Carrie had been grieving her for quite a while.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah, she's the I can relate the overly educated Maurisa.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah exactly. And she's she is she is working in
a place where she can hide, yes, and she's got
some comfort with her boss.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
It's Laverne Cox.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
Laverne Cox, who is.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
Great in this.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
I haven't I've only seen her in you know, Orange
is a New Black. Yes, so I didn't really have
much experience with her other than that. But seeing her
in this was just her just being her, you know,
she just felt like a real this is your boss
who's really on your of her friend as well, and
also wants you to do, wants good things for you.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
So trying to keep like trying to promote her, because
that was kind of like the first thing off about
she was not wanting to accept a promotion and like
a raise and whatnot.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
She's like, I'm good, Yeah, yeah, she she wants to
live in her grief, Yes, she does want to.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, And I've met people like this that are that
have never recovered from a loss like that, and it's
sad to see somebody that will never rise past that
or able to heal from that.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yeah, and immediately to the extent that I can, I
feel for Carrie and her grief, and I I mean
I was, I was in for the ride with her,
you know, not just her performance, but and you know,

(12:39):
and all the characters around again. I'm a huge Clancy
Brown fan. I mean, I'm a I'm a guy of
the Highlander world in the eighties and you know, fell
in love with him as the Kurgan. So Clancy Brown
is kind of one of those things where if I
see him in the list of character actors that are
going to be in something, it's like, oh, I know,
I'm going to love this because because its Brown's in it.

(13:01):
And Jennifer Coolidge, who is just so wonderful, and.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
She wasn't her normal like uh ridiculousness, Like she wasn't
her normal. She was a mother who was out of
touch but also still was trying so hard to relate
to her daughter and trying to help her like heal, yeah,
and trying to kind of nudge her out.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
The nest she is playing. She's not playing the character
that a lot of people like to She's got two
stereotypical characters. I feel there is the uh the older
mom that's lusted after an American pie.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
And then there is kind of the sort of ditzy,
out of touch person that really started with her being
in Best in Show ye and then kind of perpetuating.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
He Jentlemen Broncos mom, Like she was very like ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
But she's great in uh, Legally Blonde, Yeah, because I
don't she's she's klutzy as a character, but she's not
a ditsy out of a person. That's an easy thing
to relate to and and so yeah, so and Legally Blonde,
she was just she was really great as a person
that we could kind of cheer for while we're cheering

(14:17):
on el. So, yeah, she just always does such a
great job. I haven't watched The White Lotus.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
I haven't either. It's on my list. Yeah, it's I'm
in the middle of festival season right now.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah. Portland Horrors.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah, Portland Horror got me. I just got back from Cryptocon.
I'm like, I'm so busy.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeah. Yeah. And it's a lot of movies for you too,
you know, coupled with the other show that you do.
Gwenn and Gretchen watch movies. You're watching shows for the
Portland Horror Festival Cryptocon was all movies. And then you
and I are watching movies, and you know, our next
episode is going to be an interesting one that we'll
we'll briefly talk about when we go to record that one.

(14:56):
So yeah, so it's it's it's a lot so on
top of a lot of the things that you have
in life. And then I kind of I get you
a heavy film.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
No, No, but I mean, honestly, I really liked this. No. Actually,
I'm not gonna say that I didn't like it. I
thought there were things about it that I loved film,
like the characters.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
They are well executed film.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
Well executed film. There were there's some shots that are
just breathtaking, and one of them, after its kind of
sleeping on it, I thought about there's a scene where
and I feel like, if people are watching this, please,
I'm so sorry, I'm going to ruin the heck out
of this film because we're going to.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Talk about We're going to talk about it.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
Oh so, just it reminds me of the movie Brick.
Do you remember that movie?

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah? Absolutely, this had.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
There was something there was something about I think that
was the foreboding nature of this film. That reminded me
of Brick. I mean, they're not using the strange dialogue
that they use in Brick to kind of like mimic
that noir aspect. But yeah, there are so many things
I felt like that drew from noir films that were

(16:06):
instigated in like the cinematography in this, Like there's that
opening scene where she's in the bar pretending to be
drunk and sitting at a booth like kind of slouch.
The lighting falling on her and the red backdrop has
a very like almost Giello slash noir kind of like

(16:30):
aspect to it. Did you feel like that?

Speaker 2 (16:33):
Absolutely?

Speaker 1 (16:34):
Am I just like drawing from.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Because that's so that's the rest of how this film
then sets itself up and progresses through it that not
only are we with Carrie Mulligan's character who is been
grieving their film, their friend, but now what we're introduced
to is how they're dealing with that grief in a
quite what a therapist would probably call a very unhealthy

(16:57):
way and probably skirts a lot of leek reality issues.
But she begins to create a tallly of people that
she's trying to learn a lesson to. And I say, people,
it's very specifically men, by setting herself up as bait
in situations where she acts drunk, and then men go

(17:18):
seemingly at first thinking that they're being a gentleman, thinking
they're a good guy, thinking they're doing that well. They
do think that to a little bit of agree. They
do try to tell themselves that they're not accurate, and
this really does it steps into in cell culture. And
obviously there's the sexual assault aspect of all of this,

(17:38):
but I'm not justifying them in any way. But these
are men that do believe they are okay, they're good men,
and they're not now, and they think they're good men
because the measure of that is that culture and society
owes them something right and the level of success that

(18:01):
they have, even if they don't have much success, they
measure what they have to a degree of success and
believe that they are owed something or that they are
responsible within all of that. So these are not good
people and they are not making good choices, and our
culture is cluttered with them at every every level. And

(18:26):
she is essentially exposing them to themselves, showing them that
they are not good men at all, no matter what
they tell themselves. And this is literally that moment of
don't tell me what you say, show me what.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
You do right well, and I think that's like going
out the gate. That's when I was like, oh, well,
this film is no longer. This isn't going to be
any joy at all. This is going to be a
heart wrenching slog through the entire film because this is
lady life. This is the life that most of most

(19:03):
of the women we live, that where we can't walk
down the street without some fucking dude screaming out the
window at them, or like, I mean, just because you
open the door for me doesn't make you Jesus, Like
I'm sorry, Like I mean, I love a good mannerfold man,
but like you know, this is this shows a really
harsh truth about like living as like a woman going

(19:27):
to bars like I can't I have I have to
go with friends because like I've got to keep my
head on a swivel. I don't feel comfortable like going
by myself to like have a drink or with that
because it's I can't. I literally have proven it I can't.
And people be like, oh, that's so sad or whatever,

(19:48):
like they would be mocking that that the that having
that how to put having that some people would see
that as a good thing, right, that you're like that
people find you attractive or what in case may be.

(20:09):
But it's like, I don't think it. I don't think
it really matters if you're attractive or not. I think
it's more like all women live this life, and all
women experience this in one way or another, that you
can't just be left alone, like just let me be alone,
let me have my drink by myself. Yeah, And that
I think that was like going out the gate, I
was like, all right, this film is clearly not like

(20:30):
there is not going to be any joy to be
had from this at all. Like there is no joy
in this film at all. There are moments that are
like the okay, but for the most part, this is
a joyless watch. If that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
Well it does, and I want to reiterate it does
to as much as I can understand it, Yeah, being
who I am, Yeah, you know, there's there's only there's
only so much that I'm going to be able to
to understand. And while we're talking about all of this,
and we've been friends now for you know, thirteen fourteen

(21:07):
years whatever it is now fifteen years I don't have
the lived experience that you have. No matter how close
of a friendship we have out of any of this stuff,
or any of the other women in my life, any
of the relationships that are there, It'll never be a
lived experience for me. So I'll only be able to

(21:29):
understand so much.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, And that's demonstrated in this film too. After her
first kind of revenge move on Adam Scott, and she's
kind of walking through satisfied, eating a sloppy joe that's
running down her arm and it's all over her shirt,
and she's kind of, you know, she's having her moment
of walking away fairly satisfied and having this. And then

(21:53):
she runs across the construction workers and the first thing
they start doing is cat colin and whistling and doing things,
and it's almost like it's a it's a showdown. It's
like a showdown at high noon, because she literally stands
there and she is broad to them and stares at him,
and she's ready eating and and they get nervous and
they get up set because they're not getting the expectation

(22:15):
they want. They wanted the the kind of diminutive ha
haha or whatever. They wanted to, they wanted a reaction. Instead,
they didn't get a reaction, they got a showdown.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah. With oftentimes if you say something back, it's becomes
a showdown like I've had where I've been like if
someone will be like as dumb as, oh your hair, Like,
I get all a lot of you. I like your
hair because I'm in My hair's orange. It's very vibrant.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
I know, I don't even notice you don't.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
Notice my hair. Okay, I mean I get it, like
as I think it's amazing, but uh no. So like
I'll have people like if I don't respond to the
oh I really like your hair, if I don't go, oh,
thank you, like they'll be like whatever, and I'm all
like okay, yeah, so I like there's that trained response

(23:06):
of like thanks, even if it's like you're like do
I care what they think?

Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
It plays out in the rest of that scene with
the showdown with her because she doesn't react other than
eating the stare down. Yep, she's it's a stare down
for her. She's there, she's not really reacting, and they
go through the whole entire script of everything from oh,

(23:32):
we're just cat calling, oh, can't you take a joke, Hey,
what's wrong with you? You fucking blah blah.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
Blahh like a slut or something like that.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
And she's done. The only thing this person has done
is existed and walked through and what I'm talking about,
And I know that's what you're talking about, and I don't.
I don't have that. Yeah, I don't have the same kind.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Of don't you don't cat call women?

Speaker 2 (24:02):
So there was a time in my life never to
that degree. No, but no, because but I think you know,
and I don't know who knows this from who's going
to watch the show from my past, but I grew
up in a very conservative Lutheran, very rural, extremely isolated town,

(24:25):
and I saw misogyny and that kind of culture on
a regular basis. I have a separation to a very
large degree from my family because of my final decision
to kind of separate myself from some of those things.
Actually trying to find some resolution from my childhood and
even trying to maybe even get a little bit of

(24:46):
an apology or some kind of a reckoning for a
lot of the things that I grew up and around.
And I was always different than everybody else, but I
still had a degree of that in me because part
of what I went through I wanted to I wanted
to have the people in my community, in particular the
people of my family, love me. So there were certain

(25:08):
things that I emulated because I thought that that was
how you were supposed to carry yourself as a man,
carry yourself around women, This is how you do certain things.
And while that wasn't comfortable to me, I tried, and
to be honest, those attempts to try to at least
emulate it enough that I at least try to be

(25:29):
enough that I was not recognizable as odd or different
or a threat. It was noticeable to people that I
was odd and different, and I was a threat. And
so most of my existence into my twenties and having
needed having left that community and left those and even

(25:50):
then eventually the estrangement of my family had actually labeled
me as gay homosexual, and in the seventies eighties, in
a rural Christian, conservative Lutheran community that also had conservative
Mormonism and conservative Baptists, that was a death sentence. So

(26:12):
I was just trying to at least not be noticed.
So and I am in no way trying to say
that my lived experience going through those things are in
any way similar to anything that you had or anything
that Carrie Mulligan's character went through, other than to say,
men program this stuff in, and when you're young, it's

(26:36):
very hard to realize even when something is telling you
that it's supposed to be different, but you don't know
what different is because you're not seeing different. You know,
being gay as a sin. And when that's all you know,
and that's all you're taught, and you don't know anything
else about it, and you literally don't have gay people
around you who are engaging in a relationship between two

(26:58):
consensual adults who happen to be of the same sex,
you don't know what that is, right, I didn't know
what that was, so it I want to believe that
I was never as bad as any of those folks
when it comes to like calling your things. But I
know there were aspects of my life where I did

(27:21):
things where I'm not happy about. You know how I
was because I was acting like all the other men around.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
Me were ignorant and young, and it is what it is.
Like you've obviously learned from that, and that's the thing
we're I think you and I were talking about that earlier.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
It's like, and sorry that was a little long. I apologize,
Oh no.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
You're fine. But getting back to the film, I think that,
like that was such a poignant moment of like realizing
this she has as broken as she is, she also
has this cold strength to her. It's nothing that I

(27:59):
would say I should be emulated in any way, straight,
any fashion, But there is a like a strength to her.
But it is not I would say, this is not
an ideal situation of what she's doing for her therapy,
so to speak, is going out and showing the worst

(28:19):
in people. Yeah, and showing that to themselves and putting
a mirror up to that or a spotlight or over
the case. Maybe that's why I was like, Wow, this
film is not good. I don't like it. But I
like it, but I would never watch it again. That
kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Well, in a way, it's almost so we've kind of
you've already hinted at the ending that the end is
a very tragic one. It doesn't end on a happy note.
I don't even say that it fully ends on a
note of justice, because we can see the wheels starting
to turn as we end. We'll talk about that a
little bit. But knowing how our culture is and what

(28:59):
happens with our judas system, that is that is literally
left up for grabs. We don't have a good conclusion
out of all of these things. So there is an
aspect before we get to that where it almost feels
like there could be satisfaction out of what she's doing
because she is exposing these people. And it's very similar

(29:23):
like the people who send dick pics to women and
what a lot you know on social media and so
now what a lot of men or what a lot
of women have started to do is I'm going to
just look around on social media and if your mom
has a Facebook account, I'm going to send your messages
to your mom and I'm going to have your mom
see just exactly what as you're doing. Now these guys
start freaking out and all that, but then the issue

(29:43):
becomes so this is a that's like a like a
satisfying process through there, and it's like, that's great, but then
there is the worry of what about where you hit
the wrong person? Finally, what happens when you get to
that one triggered guy, And that is the reality of
where we are of how men then do react when

(30:06):
they are called out for their bad behavior.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
I don't want to spend too much time dwelling on
the idea that it's like men are bad and like
men are ugly and things like that, because I don't
think that's the case. I think this movie does a
good job of highlighting people that are that are bad people,
and that's kind of what's her That's what she was baiting,
Like she was baiting these kind of people. These are

(30:30):
the people that she wasn't baiting nice guys. She's baiting
men that were terrible and like that, were it felt
entitled to a woman just because she was drunk, or
would the case be like oh that dumb slood like
you know, I know this episode is probably going to
get flagged and non monetized, but as we talk about
these subjects, but it is, you know, the main topic

(30:54):
of this film. I mean, it's the heaviest handed message,
but the message is loud and clear. Don't be a rape,
don't be that guy, don't feel entitled, you know. But again,
like I said, I don't want to dwell too much
on that because I know there are a lot of
great men out there, and I mean there are You're

(31:14):
one of them, of course, But like, I just think
that there's a this I would hate for anybody to
be like this is a good man hating movie because
it's not. That's not really the story, and I mean,
it's it's more about how freaking broken she is and
just watching somebody process this tragedy and then not a

(31:38):
not in a healthy way, shape or a healthy way
at all, Like she just is, she's never going to
recover and she's broke, and it's said, and and then
she the way she chooses her prey is by being
a like enfeebled fawn so to speak.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
You know. Yeah, so I'll admit that aside from today's episode,
I do want I want to be a part of
a wider discussion about all of this, But I think
it has to be with men other men, yeah, and
men that talk about things, because you're saying, you know,

(32:22):
there are some great men there are, we just need
to do better and we need to step up. And
I want there to be more conversation from men saying
that it's okay to do other stuff. And again, and
I don't mean to like keep that going with what
you're saying, but I know if people want to reach
out to me or talk to me, or if there
is some way outside of today's episode where I can

(32:42):
be participating better in a conversation.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
I also feel like it's pretty far fetched in some ways. Right, Okay,
so this may be hot take on it, but like
the baiting of these men, I feel like there would
have been some men at somebody would have stepped and
have been like, hey, dude, you don't know her, she's
really drunk. Let me like, let me take care of

(33:06):
let me let me find another way, like to take
care of this woman and help her get home or
whatever the case. Because I just think that it's it's
it makes it's easy. It's a low hanging fruit to say,
like there that this would be an easy bait because
I've seen this woman in the bar and not and

(33:27):
seen her not get taken advantage of. Yeah, you know,
so I feel like that that is something that is
in touch on this is that that part of this
message is very like very heavy handed, like yeah, you
know it is. It's a little far fetched in that
way because I feel like the reality is, yes, that

(33:48):
Ladyland is a hard land to live in, but for
the most part. Most men are just going to say
something to me and that's about it. You know, They're
not gonna like I've I mean I've had I've been
drunk at the bar, but not by myself, but like
my friend had gone off to the dance floor a
case and then had a guy come up to me
and I'll be like, I'm too drunk, and They're like,
all right, good night, you know seriously. So that's I mean,

(34:10):
I've had that situation too. So I mean, like I said,
this is a little that part's a little far fetched
in the sense that she's constantly finding these victims enough
to that it feels pages of this book.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
Yeah, which is the other aspect we hadn't talked about
the fact that as she does this and goes through it,
she's actually been keeping a diary itally checking them off. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
But also that's what made me hope that she was
a serial killer mm hmm, because I was like, oh, well,
she's keeping like a trophy so to speak.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Yeah. But well, the first time I when I first
started to watch it, even when she checked it off
in the book, I kind of was like, did she
And I kept waiting for like the body of a
person was discovered, you know, playing the radio in the
background somewhere, but then that that didn't happening.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
Was just they do like that Red Herring kind of thing,
where like even when she's eating the like Sloppy Joe,
there's like the red it's running downer. It's like running
on her shirt and it looks like blood and it's
like on her leg and stuff, and I was like, whoa,
what the heck? And then I realize it's actually the
sandwich that's like leaking everywhere instead of like she's gone

(35:18):
off and murders. So they definitely they lead us to
believe at the very beginning, is that a red herring?

Speaker 2 (35:24):
Yeah, well it's a I don't know that it's a
red herring, but it's definitely playing into the symbolism and
they want you to believe that, but they let you
off the hook pretty quickly. I think a red herring
is meant to be a distraction all the way until
it's too late.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Like the boyfriend.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, yeah, him being a nice guy, bo Burnham.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
He's a nice guy. Yeah, it's a here's the thing. Yeah,
he's a coward. I don't think that he's like a
terrible person. I thought about that a lot because I thought,

(36:11):
you know, everybody in this is flawed, right, and that's
kind of what we're showing here, is the just the
the tragedy of people. And I think that they there
was an aspect that he they really liked her, So
I guess we should say. So, she meets a guy

(36:31):
and he's from her past and he was somebody that
went to school with her, and he is like not
being obtuse, but he really likes her a lot, and
it's very very sweet. And I think that sometimes you
forget when you've done something really bad, like and you
don't really like if it's not directly affecting you, then

(36:53):
it's easy to forget it, right, So I think that
his involvement, as we've kind of labor discover, is that
he is one of the people that see or is
a spectator to her friend's rape in front of a
bunch of people, and he is not He's going like whoa, whoa,

(37:19):
that's so intense. That's so intense, and he's like kind
of laughing. And I think that like knowing like they
were what in their teens, twenties early twenties.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
Was medical school, so somewhere post bachelor's degree, so you know,
in their mid mid twenties.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
Because yes, right, because your brain isn't your your frontal
lobe not quite developed, and especially like men have a
little like delayed in that response to But like I
think that I'm not I'm not apologizing for this fella.
I'm just saying that humans are flawed. And I don't

(37:57):
think that he's a bad guy because clearly, as a
surgeon working with children, he is he has compassion and
care for people and for the want to make you know,
because beyond money, it's like he seems to care about
his job and care about her. So I don't I

(38:18):
think he's a coward. Yeah, and flawed, but I don't
think he's a bad person.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
So there's kind of two events. Because they were having
a big party, people were getting really drunk. They try
to explain that several times some of the other characters
about how there was a big party and they had
all been drinking. And because they were all in the
same cohort together, there were also people that were, you know,
mingling with each other back and forth relationship wise, kind

(38:43):
of sleeping with each other a little bit. So there
was there there were adult things that were happening inside
of this area of being in your twenties and being
a little wild and fun. Absolutely, And the way that
it feels like it played out to me is that
there was the situation where the friend had gotten too
drunk and then this guy al ends up taking advantage

(39:05):
of her. He sexually assaults her and.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
In front of everybody, and.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
What the The way that plays out to me is
that it's happening and then they all like burst into
the room because they don't expect to be happening, and
the buddy Joe has his phone and he's recording it,
and they all go in there and they're like, oh, whoa,
ha ha, what's he doing? I can't believe it? But
you know, so in that moment in the recording, they've
done all of this, and because they're all drunk, no

(39:31):
one's taking full accountability and they're not fully assessing what
the situation is, right, they.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
Don't realize that she's too drunk to be in a situation.
They're all too drunk, exactly exactly. That's what I'm saying.
He's not a bad guy.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Well, but it's it is in the fact that after
the fact, there is a recording that they then all
pass around to each other, and in that time of sobriety,
this is where the true cowardice steps up, where nobody
takes accountability for it. And when Nina tries to say, hey,
I was sexually assaulted by this person, everyone's like, oh, well,

(40:04):
we don't know what a young man. It's an accusation
and it's a he said, she said. But you know, really,
how can anybody know when the whole time they all
did know and they had the recording. So there is
there is a moment where you can say, man, we
all seriously screwed up, and we were all so drunk
and we weren't able to fully assess the situation, but

(40:25):
then be able to go, yeah, that was screwed up.
This is a bad dude. That was a bad thing.
We have to do the right thing now. And that's
where it really corrupts when they have the ability to
make something happen, and the cowardice is so exposed in
that because they were protecting themselves absolutely, and the institution

(40:49):
of the school and and and their hopes for being
doctors more than they were trying to admit that there
was that that that everything just got out of hand
and it was really bad and someone did an unspeakable act.
So yeah, it's it's deep cowardice, absolute deep cowardice that

(41:12):
had plenty of opportunities to be corrected. And the failing
of a human is they just perpetuated. They keep it
going to the point where the two events feel so
separate that when the reality comes together, when Carrie Mulligan
realizes that bo Burnham was a part of all of
this stuff and how this was all tied in with
these friends, the person who had committed the sexual assault,

(41:33):
al is now getting married to a bikini model, and
all of these people are are, you know, celebrating this
person's life. And he is a new doctor and the
university completely dismisses the fact that he ever did anything.
So he has a completely untarnished pass with an excellent
graduation grade. So it is the culmination of all of

(41:57):
these things just become They end up becoming far too
much for even her grief to be able to handle.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
Oh, and she becomes completely unhinged. I mean she's already unhinged,
but when we hit like second act, right, this is
when we start to take vengeance on the people that
have done wrong exactly those and the ones that were
in the video or that were directly affected by the
situation with her and Nina. Yeah, oh that's third acting, right,
because like we have the lunch that she has with

(42:26):
her for her old friend I get together. Yes, that
is played out with a she gets her and wasted
and puts her in a scenario that has a feel
like where she is taken advantage of by a man.
She hires a guy. This is where I was like, no,

(42:50):
I cannot get behind her at all, Like, I don't
see that. I don't see this as good feminism in
any way because I've read a lot of like reviews
about this and they're like it's feminist noir horror film,
and I'm like, how what Wait, No, No, it's not feminist.
I mean there's no empowerment happening here. This is ugly

(43:13):
and grief.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
Well, she she is empowering herself, is she? But then
what do you do with the power that you give
what she's she is taking things into her own hands.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
That's vigilanteism.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
That's not and I'm not defining it as feminism, but
I am defining the empowerment of it. She is empowering herself. Yeah,
but not in a positive way. I mean she's creating
a cudgel.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Yeah yeah, And.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
I don't I don't think it's my place to define
what is or isn't feminism in all of that. That
would be very.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Difficult for me to and even myself I struggle with that, like,
you know, because I'm a gen xer, and you know,
people like the feminism has evolved and changed and things
like that, and so I think that it's for me.
I didn't feel like this for me, like I would
say feminism would be more of an empowering thing where
and like a positive change, whereas this was all unhinged, negative,

(44:13):
like mean and vigilanteist like she or vigilanteism.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
Yeah yeah, She'm actually all behind it until we get
into the third act. I I uh, from a from
a fictional standpoint, yeah, I mean to a certain degree,
it's the kind of thing you fantasize about getting retribution
on it porn. Yeah, absolutely, Well, it is this considered
revenge porn. I mean I consider hostile Well, no, that's
torture porn.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
Yeah, no, revenge porn. This is kind of the vibe
because this is the titillation the well.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
Revenge porn is when people release the videos of their
partner after they've broken up to hurt them.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
Right, But also like the revenge porn being like anytime
that you have like a titillating, self satisfying okay, like
ven aspect because like I think that how that plays
out is that with her setting up these four or
five people for their just desserts, she is going into

(45:13):
it with a knowledge like somewhere that this.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
Is she's killing, she's.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
Going to she's she's planning on her demise. And I
think that that is part of the porn aspect of
it because I think that people are like, oh yeah,
like this is gratifying to watch her like get this
vengeance and watch this play out. That's the revenge porn
aspect because I think that people are searching for that
gratification of like kind of like like the like oh god,

(45:45):
I want to use that French one because that kind
of flips on itself. How about like the on Liam
Neeson one where like he's like I have a certain skills, yes, yes,
Like he gets his daughter back and that's the satisfaction
and he can to take out all the bad guys
and John Wick is revenge porn like all of that stuff,
like all that like give and take of something bad

(46:08):
has happened to you and you get to take it
out on everybody and get them back. That is the like,
is what I feel like. Revenge porn is.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
So and we can kind of we can kind of
talk about like that that we can. We can, you know,
to talk about the third act I think. I think
really the only part that I would want to talk
about is the thing that gets us into the third act,
and that's Alfred Molina's character, and then you know from there,

(46:36):
you know, we don't have to talk about the final scenes. Yeah,
I have to. It's it's a you know, we we've
already kind of hinted and talked about it and spoiler alert,
Carry Mulligan dies. Yeah, she dies in uh setting it up,
going after the guys that had killed Nina. Yeah, and

(46:57):
it is it's it is. It's ugly, how yeah, how
it all happens and.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
Watching her be destroyed is what I think put me
over the edge where.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
I was like, oh boy, I'm going to leave it
at this in the third act. I wouldn't mind talking
about Alfred Molina's character a little bit who was a lawyer.
But this will be the last thing I say about
the third act and how it goes. If there was
ever a question anywhere in the film on the idea

(47:28):
of any of the bad men, yeah, saying but I'm
a nice guy. That final act is the one where
it exposes the lie the most of anyone who has
to continue to remind themselves or find ways of expressing
themselves and having to get out there. I'm a nice guy,

(47:49):
but not all men. You know, if you are having
to remind yourself or tell you yourself that all the time,
when you are suddenly in a situation that you should
have not been in and you're having to express that
something you're having to convince someone, you're probably convincing yourself.
And I think that is that ending is just the
most brutal, awful exposure of that lie. So I believe

(48:17):
it at that.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
The only thing that I of that of the of
her final vengeance against like the each of the person's
is I appreciate her going back to well, there was
two ones, two of them that I was like, girl,
this is over the top, one being the daughter of
the dean, like not cool, Like I thought, that was terrible, terrible,

(48:42):
And then on top of that, I mean even though
the little girl was safe, though I was terrible the
the her apologizing to the woman, the female friend what
is that actress's name from Glow? She apologizes her, I'm
really sorry that was Yeah. Yeah, She's like, I'm really

(49:06):
sorry that was incredibly mean spirited. Nothing happened to you.
But like making her feel like that, I I get
the point that she was trying to make again, like
she's fucking unhinged, Like that is a terrible way to
treat to teach a lesson, and who are you to
teach that lesson? And I think that's part of the

(49:28):
story is like again, this may be hot take because
like I was like, wow, I am this is painful
to watch. And then there's a where one of the
revenge that she takes is on the dean by basically
compromising the dean's sense of security with her daughter by
taking the daughter's cell phone and convincing the daughter that

(49:48):
her favorite boy band was going to be there, then
telling the dean that she has left her daughter in
a room full of young men that are the future,
you know of the institution of that of their college
and in the same room that Nina was raped in,
and she was like, how much do you think they

(50:09):
are good guys?

Speaker 2 (50:10):
Now?

Speaker 1 (50:11):
Like I just thought that was heavy handed and vicious
and despicable to make a mother feel like that, Like,
how dare you? Like I get it, Like I get
what you're trying to say. This may be the hot
like again, the hottest take episode we've ever done, But
I think that's I think that's okay for people to

(50:32):
see that, Like even these kinds of films can have,
Like there's discourse we can have about these kinds of films.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
Yeah, well, and you know, so a lot of her
revenge is setting people up and then putting them in
a position where they're realizing that they're the bad person
throughout all of that, and so a lot of this
is it's at the expense of them suddenly being in

(50:59):
this situation and suddenly being caught, and that that third act,
it sucks to know that she has to sacrifice herself
for that to be I don't.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
Think she sacrifices herself. She is going to kill herself.
This is what she's anticipating. Obviously, by setting sacrifice is smartrism.
I guess, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
She knows because and I had mentioned I wanted to
talk about the Alfred Molina character. Alfred Molina comes into this.
She goes to kind of pay him back and has
a setup for him. She essentially has a guy waiting
outside that's going to go into the place and beat
the fuck out of him. Yeah, but she goes in
front first to confront him. And he was on sabbatical
and was having nervous breakdowns because his conscience had caught

(51:45):
up to him and he finally realized that he was
the only person that said, Yep, everything we did was wrong,
and he said, I did it for the money. I
did it for the safety of my career.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
Oh. His his omission or his admission was he's when
he said that even before the internet. So Alfa Molina's
character is the lawyer that like basically works for the institution,
I think, or for the boys.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Yeah. He was hired by by yeah to get the
boys off to basically find dirt on Nina.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
To and finds like a criminating photo of her at
a party that is her being drunk and basically making
the jury go well, she's the This is the habit
she has, she asking she was asking for it, but
like he admits that he's done this multiple times, and
like it's all kind of come to like head for him.

(52:38):
Is that even before the Internet, that he was going
through women's trash or try to find like anything that
would you know, incriminate them for a jury. That he
this is the kind of like work that he did.
And so I think that if anybody learned any lessons,
he's the only one. And but he came to and
he was the only one that was able to like, yeah,

(53:00):
he was the only one that was really like felt
the felt without being needed to have it pointed out to.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
He felt the gravity. His conscience finally caught up to him.
He analyzed the situation that he put him in. He
realized that he had valued himself and his prosperity over
the truth.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
Oh he even said, I made so much money.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Yeah, yeah, and they did because it gave them other cases,
It gave them other clients. And it's but it's his
it's his turn at redemption that allows him to help
her set this up after the end, because the end
situation is one that is set up in which she
is sacrificing herself. She's going in knowing she may not

(53:46):
survive it. She doesn't survive it. And and because she
had sent information and the video to him and she
wasn't heard from an enough time where he said, now
I know I need to send this off to the
media and to the police. And this is what's gonna
get us to is we're going to have in this film.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
Yeah, And she had timed her had some time delayed
text messages, which I thought that was pretty freaking cool
because I love when we're able to use technology that's
current in films, because I feel like oftentimes we're like
something happens with the cell phones and nobody can use them. Yeah,
whereas this is like like it plays out properly and

(54:28):
we see it all like unfold at this wedding and
the police show up and they get out cadaver dogs
and find her body, and there's all of the resolution happens,
but we don't see we don't see happens afterwards. But
we can only hope that he went to prison for
murdering her.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
And probably that would and that would be the thing,
is the the only justice that would probably come about
from it would be from the fact that they had
murdered her and then tried to dispose of the body,
as opposed to the original justice, which would have been
the sexual assault of Nina. Yeah, and that's that's what
it took for them to finally get justice out of

(55:10):
any of this. For whatever it is that we don't
get to see, you know, we just we have the
resolution of them being arrested. Yeah. So you know, this
is a phenomenal film to look at. It's beautifully shot,
beautifully edited, fantastic performances. It's an astounding film in a

(55:31):
lot of aspects. But as you said, this would not
be a thing you would watch again.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
Oh no, yeah, I don't. I got I derived zero
pleasure from watching this.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
And I there's very few films in my life that
I watch and I go, who all right, that being
one of them. I mean I've watched a few horror
films that I was like, oh boy, I'm so yeah,
I hate this. Yeah, And I mean, rape isn't always
going to be a thing in a film that's going
to make me go, oh, I'm never gonna watch film again. Yeah,
Because it's like I recognize there, like generational not generational,

(56:04):
that's not right term I recognize that there are like
the things happen in another film, they are how to
put that rape was a plot device for a long
time for a lot of films.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
And we're gonna get to that. Actually, we've got a
discussion about some stuff coming.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
Up our next film discussion. Unfortunately has a rape been
it too.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
Yeah, So I apologize again for this being a tough
one because I well and admitutedly and in realizing this,
and I'm having to still learn too that stuff is
going to land with different people. And even though I've
had this discussion and watch this film with other people
and and and haden talking about films, people go, oh
my gosh, Yeah, I have seen that film. I watched

(56:47):
it a bunch of times, and I love it, and
and they, you know, they talk about it so much.
It's it's a it's a heavy film that doesn't end happy,
and it's going to resonate very differently with people a
lot of times. And so that that is something so
going forward, I will definitely be taking that kind of
thing in mind. If I have every have you ever

(57:08):
seen the because you were talking about other films there,
have you seen the film Martyrs?

Speaker 1 (57:13):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Yeah, I have not seen Martyrs because I live in
fear of that film, and I've been told that it
is a very very it's a hard film to watch.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
I okay, I hm, all right. I actually really like Martyrs,
the original one. There's nobody gets raped.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
Now. My understanding was that that's what it actually is,
is that it is a film that deals with sexual assault.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
And no, no, no, okay, it's different.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
Is it different? Okay? Because that's been my fear, I
have purposely not watched that film. I do not want to.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
Watch very There is a very, very terrible scene about
a woman getting just the crap be out of her
in front of us. A lot of terrible things happen,
a lot of torture happens.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
But I don't know if I can watch.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
It's not titillating, it's not even meant to be titillating.
It's meant for something else. And it's a very interesting story.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
I don't know if it's like a podcast one because
everybody does Martyrs, because I want that like Martyrs.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
That shock shot of it.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
I would say it's a better film in some ways
than this.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
I have a very difficult time. I've really come to
this place where I have a very difficult time watching
anything that has violence towards women because it's so easy
and even and this is going to come out for
whatever local filmmakers there are too, because I know lots
of local filmmakers making horror films, usually something of the

(58:45):
serial killer nature, people that I'm friends with, an actors,
And I'll start to see a film and it's like,
it's the fucking guy killing a woman on a date
like afterwards or something, and why is this a thing? Still,
I have a very difficult time accepting violence by men
on women in those situations.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
I have trouble accepting rape in general as a plot device,
like a character path or arc. Like I'm bored at that.
I'm also bored with like somebody destroying a man's family
for him to be like I have to like take vengeance.
I'm bored to tears of that kind of story.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
Yeah, agreed. So again, fantastic performances, absolutely amazing, amazing folks
that were in the coloration.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
There was some scenes that I'm like, like I jokingly
said Giallo earlier, but like I'm kind of like my
brain's like flipping through the rolodex of the film there's
so many scenes that had these beautiful like colorations, like
choices of color that were very smart, like some very
cool blues, and one scene where she's kind of addressing

(59:57):
her like her feelings, and like everything that's shown in
the coffee shop seems to have a kind of a
dreaminess to it and like.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
A very white and it's very light and happy happy.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Like character is very like warm and inviting and like,
so there are these moments of like that are just
poetry and and on camera.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
But but again, I.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
Know we're gonna watch this film again because I was like,
this is not my favorite.

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
Yeah, and it's I don't know if this is an
appropriate way to be able to say this and hear.
But in this film, Laverne Cox is also really beautiful.
She's beautiful anyway, but there she has a very beautiful,
angelic presence in the coffee shop when she is with.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
Well, I think that's the point of her character, is
that she's the only safe place. She's the only healing
voice and the only person that seems to really beyond
her parents. Like her parents also seem to really like
they all want the best for her and they're trying
to help her heal and they try to like surround

(01:01:08):
her with love and yeah, but she keeps plunging herself
into these really ugly places and the thing that's for
me what was so painful to watch. It was so
self destructive.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
Yeah, and admittedly I'm kind of leaning more like I'm
I'm trying to now get more into some of the
aesthetic of it, and yeah, a little bit more of
the performance so that we can get off, we can
start to tape her away from the subject matter a
little bit so that you know, we can even give
ourselves a little break with any of that, because from

(01:01:40):
that technical aspect. The family house, you know, there's like
the table that's wrapped and plastic.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
Everything's pink. I love that it's.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
Light white pink.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
It's like it's pastels.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
Yes, and it is, and it's it's very it's delicate, wellected.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
Yeah, her mom was like is a lover and you
know their parents are loving.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
And their symmetry. Everything has symmetry. If you notice that,
like the couches in the chairs that all had the
flourishes and everything on them. Everything was very symmetrical. It
was clean. When she's sitting at the table, everything behind
her always has very parallel lines. So everything has a
structure and a delicateness and a caring place that kind

(01:02:29):
of doesn't and it stands and start contrast to those
scenes in the bar, because a lot of times when
we're done at one of those scenes where she was
at a bar, she was with someone, we come back
to this place that has this symmetry. It has this
pastel delicateness, It has these parallel lines where things seem

(01:02:50):
to be a little bit more clear when you're there.
And so, which is why it's so great when the
mom is questioning a lot of the things in the
outside world or what's happening out there, because she doesn't
real keep up with it. She has this very I
guess controlled, delicate, protective. I like that symmetrical must be

(01:03:12):
nice atmosphere.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
Yeah, I would love to live in that land. That
sounds great.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Well, the next time I am recording Gwenn and Gretchen
watch movies, I'm going to go through your bookcase and
I am going to rearrange all of your books so
that there is a symmetry oh to all of it,
and it will mess up whatever system you have currently
in place, but I will make your bookcase feel comfortable.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Hey, I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
I love it. So I think we're probably at a
place where we can have ourselves a release from this
and start yeah and thank you for watching this one
and kind of go I didn't mean for this to
be a thing for us to go through, but to
a certain degree, to a certain degree, I'm glad that

(01:03:56):
we've kind of talked about some of this stuff with
our friendship. We've had discussions of relationships and kaiju, monsters
and films and horror and all sorts of other things.
I think, by far, this is one of the heavier
and deeper conversations that we've ever had. And I really
appreciate you for being a part of all that. But

(01:04:17):
I also apologize for any emotional any emotional Well, here's
the thing, parts that you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
Movies are meant to make you feel things. It's true,
and I am a passionate lover of film, and so
when a film brings me to a height or to
a low, I mean it means it means something, and
it means it's like it hits properly, and it means
it was supposed the message was received.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
So, yeah, do you wanna to ease out of this one,
Do you want to tell everyone about what our next
episode is.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Going to be? Super other feel good movie. We're going
to be doing a doubleheader of Cliniaswood films he directed
these two, talking about the nineteen seventy three High Planes
Drifter and nineteen eighty five Pale Rider. So kind of
the idea being we're going to talk about a spirit
of vengeance.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
Yeah, absolutely, and it's going to be great. I have
so many things to talk about in there, a little
bit more uncomfortable discussions of some stuff as well with
all of that, but yeah, it's Eastwood versus Eastwood in
our first doubleheader. Yes, awesome. Gretchen, thank you so very much,
And just so that you know, for our audience and
all this, I really appreciate you. I adore you a

(01:05:32):
bunch and on our friendship, So thanks for all of this.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
Yeah, heavual Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:41):
To Check the Gate podcast is hosted by Martin Vavra
and Gretchen Brooks. The show is directed, produced and edited
by Martin Vavra. Produced by Galaxy Sailor Productions twenty twenty five.
The show is filmed and recorded at the Propulsion Zone
Studio in Downtown Portland, Oregon Special thanks to Adam Carpinelli
and Aleandro Barragon