Check the Gate - The Company of Wolves

Gretchen and I watch an amazing practical effects film with a great cast, excellent performances and lots of wolfy sexuality. The coming of age, story-in-a-story-in-a-story film, Company of the Wolves. Neil Jordan at his finest. This movie is an astounding achievement at every level, especially on the budget he was given.


Martin and Gretchen talk movies and more at Check the Gate. https://martinvavra.me

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
And some of the things that you and I love
as far as film nerds, like our favorite things miniatures, matte, paintings.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Dre It's because, like we had said earlier on, there
is only one scene that takes place that's outside, that
is actually at a location. Everything else is on these stages.
You're in a story. You're in a.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Story, so you're looking everything has a dreamy like fantastical
element to it. There are so much were like but
it vaginas and like Dix, I was like, what is what?

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Yeah, Hey, Gretchen, welcome back. Thanks, I am so excited
to talk about this film.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Do you want to introduce this one?

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Well, I mean I kept getting the name wrong, but
now that I've kind of dial that in, it's the
Company of Wolves. It's a Nil Jordan nineteen eighty four film.
It's a gosh sexual awakening film.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
There's a lot of stuff. This is a reimagining of
Little Red writing Hood, I think a bunch of other films.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, that is like a very light touch of that.
I would barely say that it even has writing. Hood
is barely the story almost.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
It's not really the story. It's it's kind of there.
It's it's as if let's say we take Little Red
writing Hood and have Little Red writing Hood be sort
of a character that we follow through other stories of
wolves that represent various other character archetypes, yes, and then

(01:52):
have Little Red writing Hood have a sexual awakening, and
then all of that is actually a fever dream sexual awakening,
the rap around story for the for the other story
that's happening in more modern day nineteen eighty four Countryside.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
So I think we should preface this with like, this
came out two years before Labyrinth. It did, and I
feel like Labyrinth probably took some notes because this we
would have production would have been what eighty three eight,
late eighty two, early eighty three. I don't really know
how long it takes took films we made back then.
But this is, I mean literally, quite literally a fever dream. Yeah,

(02:35):
because our character Rosalind is asleep in her bed having
a nightmare. But her room is a treasure trove of
her childhood and it has all these things that get
brought into the story and into the dream of this
of this fantasy that she falls into after her older

(02:58):
sister is trying to get her to come down for dinner.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah, so exactly we start out in our present day
with a family and they arrived at a home some
place out there that is in nineteen nineteen eighty three
English countryside, and we have a girl, Rosaline, who is
asleep in her bed having a fever dream and her
sister's trying to wake us up. And that's where we
kind of like, yeah, we jump off with all of that.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
But to start that off, like there was a few
notes that I had about how they were dressed, Like
her older sister is dressed in this manner that's very
like well picnicic hanging rock meets nineteen eighties like video girl,
because she has like one of those like white, like blossomy,

(03:43):
bloomy dresses and it's but she's also wearing like red
stock like red lace stockings and red shoes, which I mean,
if we're going to start grasping a cinemalism early on,
like the red shoes represent you know, and that fairy tale.
So I think what we're trying to introduce is like,

(04:03):
this is a bunch of this is a fairy tale.
Even in the modern setting that we are starting off in,
this is a fairy tale.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
And along with Labyrinth, so you reference labyrinth in there
and how we start kind of our storytelling and the
archetype of the setting in the room and all of this.
I actually thought of legend while we were watching this,
and especially as we start to get to talking about
all of the sets.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
Absolutely, everything is kind of laid out in this world.
So it's kind of an amazing film.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
It kind of and also doesn't get enough love. I
feel like it's just now I started seeing it on
streaming services and like I think Shutter was offering it.
My first foray into this film is I don't know
if you're familiar with this era of like MTV, but
so back in the day they had these holiday are

(04:57):
like Halloween sequences that they would set up. It's hard
for me to describe it because it's there's it's kind
of lost media at this point. But the idea was
that they would do like it would present a bunch
of films like but in shorts, we'd see like small
scenes from each film and they would there would be
like an overarching narration. I think this one was done

(05:19):
by Robert England almost almost positive or somebody in that
that vein of horror filmmaking at the time, or being
in horror cinema. It's but it was like one of
those like and in this in the Company of Wolves,
there was a dream sequence that has reflects back the
horrors of when you go to dinner and it's like

(05:42):
that's what you see, Like there's there were segments of
films and these were done like during like Halloween, and
sometimes they would have like a music video in like
interrupting the like different films and or they would make
a music video from the films. Do you remember these?

Speaker 2 (05:59):
I don't, I mean a little bit. I didn't get
to see much. I really didn't get to watch much
MTV until I went to college, which that was in
late nineteen eighty nine early nineteen ninety, so there was
a pretty significant chunk of MTV that I missed.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, this was participating in that era. Like I just
I cannot call recall what those were called, but like
Disney did one too. They called it like the Halloween
Treat and it showed like segments of like Fantasia and
like their small little shorts that were like the Hue
doing and Louis going Trigger treating and things like that.

(06:40):
But it had like a pumpkin that was narrating it
at the very beginning, like a puppet pumpkin. Just weird
stuff like that, or like the legend of Sleepy Hollow
was also an intermixed in that one than the Disney's
Halloween Tree. But MTV did one like this, and I
remember there was one that they did for I think

(07:01):
this was actually wrapped up somehow with like there was
like a talking about horror movies and dreams and because
it was The dream Child or The dream Master had
just come out, so it was like nineteen eighty nine. Okay,
So this was like a good timing for me as
a young a preteen kind of coming into like being like, wow,

(07:23):
I really love horror movies. I mean I knew I
loved him as a kid because I like, again I
said in another episode where I watched horror movies from
behind my parents' couch while they were watching them. But
like literally, this is like one of those things when
I was acceptable because my father didn't really care about
me watching like scary movies. He didn't really, he wasn't.
He wasn't one of those like fear mongering kind of parents.

(07:45):
He was not afraid of like he was like horror
movies or horror movies. I think the only thing that
ever bought it to him is like if there was
like satanic elements, then he was like, I don't super
love that being in your life, like you watching that
kind of stuff. Like I wasn't a lot of watch
ThunderCats for some reason because of like he thought, yeah,
he thought that like that Mamra was like summoning, like

(08:08):
doing a satanic thing. It was his interpretation, this same person.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
I thought you were going when you brought that up.
I yeah, Halloween three Season of the Witch was the
film that my father wouldn't let me watch, and it like, nope.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
ThunderCats, he didn't let me to boy, he wouldn't let
me watch The Extorcist. He was like, that's a little
too intense. But my mom actually stood in line in
nursing school to go see the Extressist.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
Oh wow, yeah too.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
Like went for a bunch of friends and like bought
tickets and they stood in line to go see it.
But yeah, yeah, that aside. This was that was how
I first got wind of this film, and I could not,
for the life of me, figure out what this film
was called because I just had This is pre internet right,
like so, and how are you supposed to find out?

(09:04):
Like you have to wait till that show came on again,
and I don't remember seeing it twice. I have just
this may be either may not even m TV and
may have been like a USA up all night thing,
because you know how they did like those segmented films
and they would go like have a you know what
it might have been now that I think about it,
because I think about how the way night Flight's format is,

(09:25):
that might have been on night flight or something like that.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
OK.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Now it's all coming back to me now I just
gotta go. Because I have Night Flight, I should go
through it and see if I could find it, because
they do these like they call them like shorts or
like segments about like like one about sexuality and one
about like uh like uh like flying, and like they
do all these different like segments on a night flight.

(09:50):
So I think this, yeah, themetic So this may have
been like a dream one, and that makes terfect sense
because our girl is having a fever dream. Yeah, and
she's what I The reason why I even had this
lipstick one is because like in the fever dream, she's
like got this really shiny we're dressed up.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
I'm in my vine parac It's the close thing I had.
I don't have any were wolf attire, but I.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Didn't have anything red closes.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Again, I looked like maybe some possible French aristocrats. We'll
get to that one.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
Yeah, but yeah, the the our girls wearing like her
sister's makeup because.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
She is absolutely and you better not have gotten into
my new red lipstick.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
This film, So, this film was really great. And this
is again, this is another one of those films where
I remember seeing the VHS case for this on the
shelf and being afraid of it because the cover is this,
I mean, fantastic artwork, but at the time and not

(10:57):
understanding film and being afraid of horror films, this wolf
mouth protruding out of another person. It's you know, it's
they're shedding this human skin like literally on the cover.
And it's like, whoo. That was a lot, Like I
was scared of this thing. But at the same time,
it's like, wait a minute, Angela Lansbury is in this film,
So here's this horror movie of some kind of coming

(11:22):
of age sexual stuff that's gonna have horror and violence,
fairytale stuff in it, and Angela Lansbury, you know, I'm
you know, this is a time. Murder she wrote, is
a thing, right, and so I'm thinking, wait a minute,
this was the naive person that I was, who wasn't
able to connect art and storytelling and where you know,

(11:46):
violence or sex, sexuality, those kind of things can play
their role in how people are interpreting, interpreting different types
of stories, or exploring archetypes and all that stuff. So
to me, it was just this, know, mind blowing moment
to have murder she wrote in a film like this,

(12:06):
So it was it was very significant when I did
finally watch this film for the first time and realized
that that kind of thing could be Okay, I was
having my own little awakening.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah you were, well. I love Okay. I'm embarrassed to
say this. I f don't think I've ever publicly admitted this,
but I love werewolfs. I love werewolf films. I love
the story, the idea, the the where it comes from
in mythology, the the the outsider, the person who is

(12:39):
fully given themselves into their wild nature. I think that
there's something very sexy about it about like I think
that there's like that the beast within and like the
acceptance of our inner monster. That has always been a

(13:03):
very like to me, a very sexy concept of like
of my like of monsters in general. Like, so I
think that, I mean, I hate to I literally never
admitted this publicly. Here we go world, it's on the
internet now, But is that I I I just I love.
I love werewolf films, Howling I love. Uh, I can't

(13:28):
say I love like the Wolf Man. I think those
were like those didn't hit for me, but like Werewolf,
American were Wolf in London, stupidly enough, American Werewolf in Paris.
That movie was kind of dumb, but it has these
elements and again like they're even going back as far
as like a thriller. Those werewolf transformations were just stunning,

(13:49):
and I I just think that they're just kind of
like a raw energy to them, like a like a
very again like a and of self like of the
beast within ourselves and having no control of that or whatever.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, I do, so do you.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
That's probably something for Freud to figure out.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
It'll be a we can analyze it here.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
Oh yeah, that's not so.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
And so you brought up American were Wolf in London
I haven't seen American were Wolf in Paris.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
It's silly, but.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yeah, and that was kind of at a time too,
when people were really trying to push CG. So I
think most of the old stuff in there is trying
to be CG. But it's that was I don't remember
the year, but I'm gonna guess it was probably like
ninety eight or something like that. It was in those
years where they were really trying to it's like a
post Jurassic Park where it's like we can start making

(14:43):
digital creatures that do things and I just remember it
looks like and it'll probably be very dated now, but
but what I was going to ask was with like
American were Wolf in London, we have these phenomenal transformations
and then the creature that we transform into that we
kind of see in like quick flashes, but it's it's

(15:06):
very much a wolf dog like something that we would
understand in this film. The transformations of our werewolf from
a person into these wolves. It's like it's a full
blown wolf. Yeah, it's a wolf as opposed to.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
Something rhinos form or whatever, like well.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
It's a it's very much a quadrupedal, yeah, wolf, like
we can recognize this as a wolf as opposed to
something like if we look at the underworld stuff, the
lichens in there, the were wolves ear Yeah, they're like
seven feet tall. Yeah yeah, yeah, you know those they're
very ANTHROPOMORPHI I think that.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
More for the attraction for me for were wolves is
like the turning into a wolf like and having that
that that wolfish behavior or whatever. Like the I mean,
my first tattoo on my chest is like a woman
turning into a wolf. It looks like his. But now
but back in the day, it did it.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Oh, it happens.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
Hey man, it is what it is. We agel but yeah, no,
I mean, like I just I think that there's the
primitiveness of it, the out stranger and a the the
having a secret, the being something different from everyone else,
Like those things appealed to me.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
The hair is on the inside, hair.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
Is on the inside.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
Baby. I don't know that was a well, but that
was said that I really loved how that was actually
something that happens in this field. That's that's a comment
they make in there. There's a angel we'll ansbury our
grandmother who within the first fairy tale level that we
go to is telling our uh ray lean kind of

(16:51):
our little Red writing Hood type of character and tells
her these stories and those are the warnings of watching
out for the men who well and her eyebrows grown together.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
And their feet were born for their worn.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
Feet, first born feet first, because they wear their hair
on the inside.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
Right, And I mean I think that's like there's a
that's part of the sensuality of this also is that
because like a man is so like be stewel and
things like that, to beware little girls and whatnot. But
I think that there's also that that can ring into
women as well as having that, you know, be steal nature.

(17:29):
I mean, as we say in like one of the
acts later, like there's the final act that has the
or the final story that has the she wolf in it. Yes,
But the what I wanted to kind of rein back
was that these fairy tales were like at this, I mean,

(17:49):
at the at the at their essence, fairy tales were
not only just morality warnings, but they were also very dark.
And I think that that's what we're kind of on
into with this story, is that that this version of
the Little Red riding Hood is a is a fear

(18:09):
of staying off the path of getting off of the
path and like and running into men that are wild
men in the woods and being cautious and having your
head on a swivel girl like. Those are those cautionary
tales because as we see what happens is that you know,
grandmother gets eaten and destroyed and not in the original tale,

(18:34):
she's not saved. Little Red Riding Hood isn't saved.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
So so, you know, it's interesting though. It's interesting as
you say that, because I do think of the last
fable within our fairy tale, which we can kind of
get to, but relating with what you're saying. So it's

(18:59):
almost like there's kind of two different levels of predator
in Prey because the humans, the men in this are
the ones that are the sexual ones and the prayer
toward the women and all of that, and the wolves
are the predators for the livestock, and they want to

(19:20):
eat the sheep and the cattle, and the duck that
they use is bait for one of them in there.
But they but they really try to put the devil
and the sin and the any anything that they that
they really should be attributing to the people as far

(19:43):
as being someone of temptation or violence or anything like that.
They they they take it off of the person aspect
of it and they put it onto the wolf. Because
in one of the fables in there, when they say
they they end up chasing after a wolf, and this
is within the first first layer of fantasy. They chase
down one of the wolves and trap it and they

(20:03):
kill it. But then they pull out a hand and
they're just mortified, where it's like it was a wolf
when it went into the trap, and then we killed it,
and then it was a man right before our very eyes,
and they were mortified by all of this stuff, you know,
because they had they possibly killed a person from a neighboring.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Village human, but it wasn't killed her sister, so.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Right, yeah, in the first level of yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, the dreams, she kills off her asshole sister.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Right exactly. But it's it was interesting that the real
predator for the for the women in this world were
actually the men, but they tried to make them being
that the wolf was really the predator, and really the
wolves just wanted to eat and get by and were
not really the humans were much worse. Yeah, the humans
were always kind of the the bad ones. In there,

(20:53):
which we can get into more, and we can when
we talk about ray Leane's transition and all of that,
because I think that that's pretty substantial now that I'm
thinking about it a little bit more. This is such
a good film. This was you know, Neil Jordan, who
many people will know famously did The Crying Game.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
Which and Interview with the Vampire and.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
Interview with the Vampire. But then there's also Neil Jordan
has a lot of very named, recognizable films and I
was going through the list, and I hate to say
that I'm spacing off on the name on it right now,
but there is a Sean Penn and Robert De Niro

(21:39):
film where they are a couple of priests, but I
think they're like guys that are on the run. It
was like they did that film, It was like Holy Cow.
That was a Neil Jordan.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
Film kind of all over the place.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
He is kind of all over the places. But he's
a very accomplished filmmaker who made a lot of films
that were very excellent films, but a lot of times
people will remember the controversial one that he made that
really has this controversial moment that is a few brief
seconds and it's a hell of a twist within the

(22:11):
Crying Game. But the Crying Game is actually a much
more complex and interesting film that also has this one
crazy great hook in it.

Speaker 1 (22:20):
But it doesn't does that Does that film hold up
these days?

Speaker 2 (22:23):
I honestly, I don't know if it would hold up.
But you know, there's the whole political aspect of what
happens with that film where our Stephen Ray character is
early on with Forrest Whittaker. By the way, yes, Stephen
Ray is in this film, which is great, and so
we see these early filmmaker actor collaborations that are coming together.

(22:48):
I just find it interesting that the the one film
that has a slight controversial moment in it, that it
does have like a bigger story and has other things
in it that's really intriguing is the one where it's
because I know as soon as we were going through
this and I went, oh, Neil Jordan, and immediately it
was like, oh, Crying Game and.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
The Vampire because Stephen Ray's also interviewed the vampire in
that one, the French.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
Vampire, absolutely, and and it was and it took you saying, oh, yeah,
I interview with the vampire and I was like, that
was a Neil Jordan's film Wild.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, absolutely, it wasn't like his wasn't the special effects
guy for this? Wasn't he like didn't he go on
to do Tim Burton.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Stuff Tim Burton's Yes, you had pointed that out.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
Yeah, he was like the everybody in this is like again, right,
somehow we are good at picking films that are like
these like director debuts or like there are a lot
of like synergy of other things.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
They're kind of early on in their career, and they're
finding these actors kind of early on in their careers too,
that are are really that you know, become rather mainstay.
And Stephen Ray is great because he is in a
lot of films and he's someone that still kind of
pops up from time to time and has had, you know,
a successful career in both Europe and the United States,

(24:09):
which is which is really great. Not a lot of
people from other countries get to have that American crossover appeal,
and not that he is a name outside of people
who are Sinophiles, but he is recognizable. He's clearly a
person who you know is getting the jobs. Yeah, I'm

(24:29):
excited to talk about all of the practical work in
this film. If you want to talk about characters and story,
we can do that.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
There's so many times I remember when we were watching this,
I would turn it and be like, how do you
think that was done? And like like there was like
silly things like this rose that turns red, that goes
from white to white to red.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
And opens up a little bit, and it's.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
Like crystally and beautiful, which again has a very legend
fille because don't you feel like the world of Legend
had like everything look like it was covered in like sparkles.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yes, there was.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
That element in this too, and funny things about like
I remember we were talking about This is Beyond, like
the was like how the the set looked a lot
like you're saying, it looked a lot like Remend.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
But character wise, I think there's some interesting things that
we see at the very beginning that kind of give
us this like not foreshadowing, but just kind of letting
us know what's worth to expect in this. She has
a storybook laying by her head, the mirror is reflecting
her like tussling in her sleep, and then we see

(25:47):
the dolls and one of them looks like Granny who is.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
In Yeah, dang it, Gretchen. That's right. One of the
dolls looks like Granny. And now I have an answer
to one of the questions that I had about this
whole thing.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Was very sorry, that's the name was drawing Trump forget so.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
But that now solves one of the the questions, one
of the issues that and we'll get to it where
we talk about the last fairy tale within the story
of all of this that I didn't understand. I was
going to ask you, and I think you just answered it.
Holy cow, We're going to get to it. It's great.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
Well. And then one of the other dolls was that
weird sailor doll that like that chased.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
Her sister around, chase.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Her sister around in the woods, and also the teddy
bear that also chased her sister around in the wood.
But that's okay, So this is like total non sequator
as far as like that sailor doll reminds me of
that famous possessed doll. And he looks like a little
sailor doll really, and it's so fucking creepy like, and

(26:50):
he's like people like they have to keep him happy,
like or else the doll will like exact some kind
of revenge or like a kind of negative thing happens
to the people haunted. It's really weird. But like as
soon as I saw it, I was like, oh boy, that's
the that's that sailor creepy doll. That's like murders sleep

(27:13):
or something or curses. Not because that's Annabelle, like from
like the original Annabelle is actually like a raggedy ann doll.
I saw them they lectured at my college, and Lorraine
Warren they came to my college and did a lecture

(27:33):
and they had brought the annabel doll or I think
I can't remember her name is actually Annabel but she's
like a possessed raggedy and doll nice and had like glass,
don't have the glass and also right again, like one
of those not sure I believed, and I wanted to believe.
So I was hoping the doll was like gonna fucking

(27:55):
like jump at the glass or something. That was a hope. Anyways, Anyways,
I digress.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah, Well, do you want to talk about the stories?

Speaker 1 (28:05):
Which so the story, Yeah, the first the first story
is the story that is well, it's the story of
like her sister getting killed and whatnot, and then we
have like where you talk you pretty much went it
covered it with like the beasts. They find his hand
through the hand on the fire. The second story is
the story that Granny tells is one of the stories

(28:26):
that Granny tells her about warning her about relationships and
men in general. We have a woman who is meets
a traveling man and they fall in love and get married,
and on their wedding night, he says he needs to
step out to go to the bathroom and be in
the moonlight, and we kind of cut away from her

(28:49):
like looking at him and it's Stephen Ray. Yeah, and
he has like crazy like colored eyes and these eyebrows
are matching, and she was talking about how cute he
is with his eyebrows matching, which I was like, yeah, girl,
I love you like a little swarthy. I don't know. Anyways,
he was like, so he goes out into the into

(29:13):
the woods or out into the and then he never
comes back. So then we're like we're caught with us
later on life where she kind of ends up kind
of settling on somebody and has kids and she's very
unhappy and whatnot, and he comes back her first husband,
and he's like who he looks rough to by the way,

(29:36):
he looks like he has been in the woods. Like
he's got long, long hair and it's dirty and he's
got and she's like washing him and they're talking and
he notices all the children and he starts calling her
names and then gets really violent with her and slaps her,
and her husband breaks busts in as he is turning

(29:58):
into a wolf.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yeah, we get our first real like transformation.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
Like it's like he skin rips off and he like
the underskin comes out and the face elongates self. Which
I've seen this done one other time. It was a
really cool series called I want to say it's called
Hawthorn that maybe right. It has a scars guard I

(30:25):
think in it. I can't remember exactly, but it was
a series that came out. I want to say. It's
like early mid Ats and the werewolves in this series
eat their skin and absorb it so that when they
retransform back into people, they have their skin with them.

(30:49):
But I'd never seen that before prior to like this.
But he doesn't eat his skin, but his skin like
flays off, and that's what happens in these They like
their skin like splits apart and like there's like wolf underneath,
but then they like take a moment to eat their
like call so to speak. Second podcast row that I've
used the word call, but yeah, I'll often use that term.

(31:13):
But yeah, like the like they eat their skin and
like reabsorb it again, like one of those Like I
think there's like something kind of like fascinating and kind
of gross and sexy about it. I don't know why,
it's it's like one of those I like were wolves.
You know, your mileage may vary. I don't know. Some
people like the wolf man, I like were wolf, like

(31:35):
were wolf, were wolf anyways.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
Anyways, Yeah, but this is our big first information that's
really kind of pushing those practical effects. And it doesn't
well it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
I mean it does look like there's you could.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
Argue that it looks dated. It looks dated.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
Short to me, it has it reeks of a puppet
because it fucking is. Yeah, but like it reeks of
a It has that that Jim Henson Creature Workshop looks
absolutely right, because I think like the rounded eyes, there's
there's these tells that are very Jim Henson Workshop. That

(32:16):
this has a vibe I would be. I would not
be surprised if one of the people that worked on
this were part of the crew for Labyrinth later or
because like it wasn't parts of Labyrinth shod in the
UK anyways.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
Like, oh, it probably was.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
I feel like there was probably some like there's probably
some crossover I would I would imagine in like the
special effects field. This may not be a Jim Hansen project, however,
maybe some of his studio people worked on it, because
it does have those those elements that have a like
a certain quality to them. I can't find any more
meta on the too much on the crew of this.

(32:57):
I mean, there's like there are some special effects people
behind it, but that we're like, but like where they're
what they later went on to work on I didn't see.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Yeah, and you had pointed out too when we were
watching this. This was made in Shepherd and Studios. Yeah,
and a year later is pine Wood Studios where they're
making uh uh legend. Yeah, so and and and this.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
Also was absorbed. This is owned by pine Wood Studios, owned.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
By Pinewood Studios exactly, so you know. And and I
was kind of talking about too because I'd looked up
the budget on this, and they had said that it
was estimated to have been around two million dollars.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Which is cheap, right, how good this film looks. It's cheap.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
It's so red. I mean, I would have thought that
would have been Angela Lansbury would have eaten half of
that budget, right, you know. And all the sets, I
had kind of presumed that they had been built for
various other projects, and then they had pulled all of these.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
In because see anything on it. I looked looked pretty
deptly to see if there was anything that had hinted
into these these sets, it might have been reused later.
But I think these were built and there were some
elements that they talked about about how the building of
these sets, like because they built like they only had
like two maybe three trees, and then they had to
shift everything around to reshoot like sides of them so

(34:22):
that we get like a different perspective, which I think
is brilliant and again like very like Gorilla DIY like filmmaking,
when we only have a two million dollar budget a.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
Right, well there's probably took a million of it, right,
And you know, so with this too, there's only one
true location exterior shot, and it's the very beginning. Yeah,
when the family arrives in the car at the country home.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
That's the money shot.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
Baby, that's it. And everything else is shot on stages. Yeah, everything,
But that.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
I think lends itself to the dreaminess of this story.
And I'm sorry that I got derailed, but it's like
about talking about special effects of the were wolves. But
like the that story, like the like the head gets
cut off by her, her husband busts in.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yes, when he returns and.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
He cuts the head off, the head dunks beautifully falls
into the milk, which is kind of a I don't know,
it's again a very like visceral thing. Right, So it's
like the idea that like there are there are these
like all wives tales and superstitions about like bad omens

(35:38):
and like milk curdling because of like of a bad
omen or of like like a a black cat crosses
your path, your milk curdles or whatnot. So the fact
that this head falls off and goes into the milk,
I was just like, oh, this is spectacular. Yeah, and
it turns into a human head turns into Stephen Rays right,
and we're like and she's picking it up and like

(36:01):
kind of lovingly looking at it and her husband slaps
the fuck out of her, which.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Is pretty gross. Yeah yeah victim getting punished, Yeah for
that situation.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Yeah yeah, And again it was kind of goes back
to Granny story. She says, you know, this is this
is what men are, and it's like, okay, she is
trying to keep Rosalie on the right path.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah, yeah, she is well and it is it is
peppered with many warnings on that, even for the clergyman
that we have in there. She kind of warns about
the clergyman a few times, but can talk talks about
him in front of him because oh he's deaf, he
can't hear anything. Turns out totally hears everything. He's just

(36:46):
decided to ignore her when he chooses to.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
Exactly, Yeah, because like women lose value when they get
to be old. Figured.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
Yeah, so that's that, and.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
Then upsets me by the way Lesbury's fifty years old
than this is I am a year I'm like a
little over a year away from that.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
Oh boy, We've kind of talked a little bit about
that too, because I had brought up the fact that
like Wilford Brimley is in his forties when he does
Cocoon and and he does the thing, and you know, uh,
we're just like, wait, those people are in there for
did I didn't look like that when I was in
my forties, but that was kind of.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
We're looking all right, man.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Yeah, hanging in there. Oh every now and then.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
I think that's gen X. Man, we're preserved.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
I hope that's the case. Man.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
We're gonna like when as gen X people pass away,
it's all like they just they just remain.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
Oh, it's my passing is probably gonna be like the
Last Crusade and the and I chose the wrong cup
and all of a sudden, it's gonna be just blow away.
And it's like doing real well up until that moment.

(38:01):
Oh boy.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Yeah, it's like wait till it all catches up with me,
and it's like, oh boy, it's going to be a nightmare.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
Anyways, but man, Angela's rays fifty years old in this film.
She's granny. I mean, I guess it could be a grandma,
like technically at forty eight.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
Well, I you know, I guess if you're having kids
it's at sixteen and seventeen years old, then I guess
you're a grandmother.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
And oh my kid, My kid's twenty three, so like
technically they could be they could have a kid that
could have a big grandma, but not to like a
twelve year old or a fourteen year old, Like.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
Well, I have to remember that if i'm, you know,
at the age I am now, if I had a
kid at twenty five, yeah, then that kid could have
had a kid at their twenty five. That means that
I would be four years into being a grandparent. Ooh,
I can't imagine that. Nope, I'm still figuring out how
to pay off my college loan.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
Right, yeah, I feel you so that that hurts my feelings.
But though there then the next story is the my
favorite story. Yeah, that is the the tale that her
mother tells her, and her mother, Rosalie has like these

(39:16):
like questions about sexuality, and like she witnesses her parents
like having sex, and she's just like and she asked
some pretty cringey questions like does it hurt? And we're like, oh,
oh boy, ah, yeah girl, okay, but yeah no, some
moms like, no, it doesn't hurt. But like here's the

(39:37):
thing to be wary of of, like of pretty men
and keeping their promises and things like that, and so
she goes to tell the tale of this enchantress who
comes into We are at of like a tent party
for some noble people and they're having the most extravagant
wedding and it's you can tell, it's very like libertine

(39:59):
kind of looking where like very instacraby, like Marquis de
Saute kind of vibes we've got going on.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
We have our early Dinna Thor scene with the one
woman who's just like consuming food and so gnarly like.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
It's very excess. It's kind of poignantly talking about like
showing excess and like wealthy and gluttony and the over abundance.
And then we have this kind of like very pregnant
like woman who's like kind of dirty coming in and
she's like starring them all down. And she comes upon

(40:40):
the man that has clearly the father of her child,
of her soon to be born child, and she calls
him to the floor about it.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
And that's the guy that just got married. Ye, So
he's the groom in this scenario who has.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
Has a very nice, beautiful young bride, yes, and she's
a little older and a little more wide and our
red hair.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
Our peasantry person is a little older, yes.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
And it's pretty wild. Got some red hair, yes, And
she uh tells them they're all beasts and kind of
because he kind of refers to her as like a
lowly like beast, and she is, they we established kind
of like a chantress of sorts, and so she like

(41:26):
tells tells them to become calls thebous of the beasts
that they are, and then they all start transforming. But
these transformation seeds are so freaking cool, way different than
the one prior that was like the very bloody, visceral
like one. These are like they are almost comical in a.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Way, like it's like the external is transforming. It's a
it's a little closer to American werewolf.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
And right, so it's an external transformation as opposed to
like an internal thing where like the clawsbust out of
the shoes, the face so elongate hair is growing out.
My favorite is like where a woman is like pulling
her bodice and like hair is pushing.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
I'm like and you see like her nipples and then
like a second set of nipples and I was like, yeah,
like that is that is also very cool, Like I thought,
like I thought that was so smart, and many choices
in this film that that there were, like the transformations
alone were each very intuitive of their of the story

(42:30):
that they're a part of. Like there's blood and gore
for the woman who has like lost her like her
husband has disappeared and come back, and she's like unhappy,
and this is very like indicative of the fact that
this woman is poor and he is wealthy, and that

(42:51):
they are monstrous and of themselves. And I think that
that's really like, I think that's very cool and point
in for this story.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
I love how the transformation is instigated because she's addressing
all of them, yeah, and trying to make them face
who they are, which they don't want to and they're
not wanting to admit it, and they're really looking down
upon her. But inside of this wedding tent, there's a
series of mirrors, and she goes over to a mirror

(43:21):
and she's looking in the mirror and she's looking at
herself and she's looking at them right before she gives
and it's like she casts a spell or something, but
she's speaking to the mirror and the people that we
see reflected in the mirror. Don't look at the mirror.
They're looking at her. So she's willing to look at
herself in the mirror and be a judge, and they can't.

(43:44):
And it isn't until that groom he looks at the
mirror and she makes her move. The mirror breaks, and
that's what instigates. So when they finally, when at least
one of them is willing to look at the monster
that they are, that's when they start to reveal themselves,
which to me, I have to tell you, it seems

(44:04):
like becoming a wolf as a reward, because I find
wolves to be in higher esteem than humans. So but
I guess, I guess the way to the way I
would then change that or turn it is that it's
not a reward because now they will be hunted by
the very same people that they would have considered the

(44:26):
other aristocratic people at their level. Right, So that's that
I guess is where they get to a wolf is
a woman.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
She makes them seeing her baby to sleep.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
That's right, which is wonderful. And and the people who
are the servants in there.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
They're like popping champagne and having an hysterical.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
That was great. It's celebratory and they and they're very
thankful to yep, and it's time to Yeah, now we
get to enjoy the party and hopefully, which we don't know,
but hopefully, what it means is that they have seen
the downfall of this aristocratic group of folks, and while
they're going to celebrate on the ashes of this whole
wedding and everything that's left over, hopefully they won't become

(45:13):
the very thing that they are loathed and served. But
we don't get to see that part, right.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
And then there's another story. It's a small one. It
is a this is a path story, like don't get
off the path because there's like four stories or five stories. Well,
the path story being the there's a man, young man
in the woods who is trying to win the favor
of a woman and so he meets the devil in

(45:43):
the crossroads, which is famously that is who is that
that was played the devil that drove up in the
rolls Royce.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
Oh, that was fantastic, And you know, we can edit
around this and get to that guy's name because because
we're in this very much the first level of this
whole dream is very much meant to be.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
Kind of like master son of a priest.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
It's the it's kind of the Middle Ages, and then
we're having these other stories, these fables are within this.
Uh So we have the fables that are within the story,
and they all are very much in that medieval time period.
And yet we get is he not the devil he
but he rolls up in a car Terence Stamp, parents Stamp,

(46:34):
absolutely Priscilla Quina the Desert. As well as being one
of the first uh the Chancellor of the Republic that
we get to meet in Star Wars. He was he
was zod Is God in Super Mayan. Yeah. So yeah,
I mean, this dude's been in all sorts of stuff
and wonderful and here.

Speaker 1 (46:55):
He's so young, but it's not even that far his career.
I mean it's he has a pretty prolific career in
the seventies too. But like it's just it was such
a surprise to see him. But yeah, it's like the
bastard son of a priest because this was the part
of the story of the priest, knowing like that priests
sometimes have kids, mm hmm. Yeah, and this kid was

(47:18):
trying to win some favor and so he ends up
taking an ointment from the devil who is driving a
Rolls Royce in the middle of a medieval like run
a song for us there we go, Yeah, and I
just love the that for me was very ethereal. I mean, yeah,
I know we have Rosalie driving the Rosaline driving the

(47:40):
car and she's like wearing a white wig and she's
in white like and I think that's kind of cool,
like very like angel, like a devil in the Skuy's
Angel type role or whatever the case may be. But like,
I'm not even sure the semblance of there is, but
there is the uh. I just think that's such a like,

(48:01):
it's kind of like the whole it's so stark of
a contrast that there's this you know, vintage to us
Rolls Royce in the middle of a medieval wood, right.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Yeah, And so I'm forgetting what happened after that guy
rubbed the ointment on himself.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
He puts the ointment on himself and starts to grow hair,
and then the vines reach up and wrapping around him
and dragging him down. And then the story reflects back
suddenly to Rosaline in her bedroom or Rosaline in her bedroom,
and she's like like sweating and like like tossing again
fever dream and then in the mirror reflection is the

(48:43):
boy screaming, and then we cut back to the dream again.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
Nice, Yeah, And then we go onto the tail of
the Woman who gets the wrong right, the woman the noble,
the woman, the enchangers, and the nobleman.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Oh, the one with the aristocrats in the during the
wedding test.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
Okay, yes, yes, And then our next story is the
She Will. It's supposed to be like a compassion tale
about having compassion for people, because she's no, she's actually
like comes up from the member. She comes up from underground,
from the well. And then she is like, yes, she
from the underworld, right, And she gets shot and injured,

(49:26):
and the priest takes care of her and tries to
convince people to like of her innocence because everybody thinks
that she's like the one that's killed the animal or
killed the livestock, and so he ends up returning her
to the well. And that was like, I mean, that
story was like, eh, I mean, it was like the
sweetest story of all of them. But then it was
kind of like the and then this is when we

(49:48):
go back to back on track to our story of
Grandma has knitted or knitted the hood and is like,
I need you to come meet me at my house.
And here we go to a little red riding house,
little red writing here and then so she's on her
way to go to granny's house and has met a
very handsome man whose eyebrows met in the middle.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Yes, on the way, and he.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
Has a compass and he tells her all about how
compass and she's blown away by his magnetic personality and
having a knowledge of compasses and falls for him, and
he like they like. He tells her he's going to
give her a treat and like a like they they
have like an embrace for.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
A moment with a cookie. He holds the cookie in
his mouth and then that's how he feeds it to her.
He kind of leans in and she like leans in
and takes a bite of it, but then she snags
it with her hand. Yeah, it's very bizarre. It's very
because ours is a young woman.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Fourteen yeste's she is a young young lad.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
Here and this is definitely an adult gentleman.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
Yes, but you know these were this was I guess
supposed to be a different time. True, it's a fantasy.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
It's a story.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
It's a fantasy horror. Again, one of those unlike I
feel like it does not get enough attention, are fantasy
horror films. But again I separate, I forget, I get
to give myself off the track. Yeah, so we meet
the handsome Wolf and she's like, I'm going to Grandma's
house and he says, I will beat you there because

(51:21):
I have a compass, and she's like, but I know
my way, and so we're having a race to get
to who's going to get to gram.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
And tells her that there's that's a fault of hers
because you're going to take the path because everyone said
you have to stay on the path in the past.
He's not going to take the path because he has compass,
and he's tempting her to go off the path.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
And he gets to Grandma's house first. Yeah, and this
is our very famous like instead of Grandma getting eaten, however,
there is a confrontation between the wolf and Grandma and
he knocks her head off that turn and it breaks
like ceramic.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
It's a porcelain doll.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
It's a porcelain doll.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
And so that's where I'm like, oh my goodness, now,
I understand because I was always like, I don't understand
why Grandma was like, it's because we're in a level
of fantasy. This is our first level, and the grandmother
looking doll that is within there, this is supposed to
be the symbology tying back into that doll that's on
the shelf, and so it's Grandma's head is the porcelain

(52:24):
head that shatters.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
So she shatters. Yeah, and then he poses as Grandma
and in a way, and she busts into the house
to see or ask her.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Well, she doesn't she does what So he knocks it says,
and Grandma says, lift the latch and come in, my dear,
and he does, and then they have their confrontation. So
he's sitting in Grandma's rocker, yeah, when Rosaline shows up
and she knocks, and he does her voice, yeah, ish,
lift the latch and come in, and she does.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
And we don't have the original story here. This is
where things diverge. She absolutely tempted and falls for him
and succumbs to him and becomes a part of his
world and becomes a wolf herself.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Yeah, the human the human man seduces her, but for
them to become the wolves. Yeah, to go out into
the wild. Yeah, it's amazing. It's that moment is amazing.

(53:37):
It's very it's very awkward getting to it when we
are acknowledging that she's fourteen and he's probably like twenty
five in the well, and.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
I think beyond that, it's also like because this film is,
if not many things, it is continually a bunch of
like allegories for sex andolence and marriage and coming of
age a woman, and like feminine divinity and like having

(54:09):
like there's things that are uniquely womanly in this but
also there are so many things that are very manly
and very male perspective and oriented. And quite honestly, it
doesn't pass a Bechtel test.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
It does not well. And Grandma Granny is the only
one that is advocating for any type of UH autonomy
for her because everything else is kind of leading.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
Toward well, her parents want her just to be like.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
You're gonna get married off, right, there's even a prospect
in there. But there's a boy that we have for
a little while. Yes, that sort of kind of courts.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Her a little bit gross summer tooth kid.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, so you know, our little huckle Finn
Huckleberry Finn. Yeah, but he is considered a viable prospect
within the community, the village that they're in.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
And she knew she was special, and so I.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
Think, well, that's the thing is there's kind of no
passion and there's nothing. And so that's the other part
is that while Granny wants to have her have this
autonomy and be worried about these men or boys that
might be seductive, the wolves, the were wolves of this,

(55:31):
Granny I don't think wants her to also fall into
the very systemic you just get one of the boys
from the village and get married and have babies and
do all of that.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
Can you the fold? As they say? Yeah, the very
famous quote that the mom I think was it the
mom who says it or the grandma says it, If
there is a beast in men, it meets its match
and women too.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
Yeah. Granny says that I love that, yeah, and says
that maybe it's I think you're right it was the mom.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
Yeah, because she was asking her about like sex and
whatnot and like if it hurts, and then she was saying,
like that is did the male dogs beat their bitches?
And she was just like whoa, yeah, there was there is.
This film is beautiful. Like I said, it has some
heavy handed metaphors, but other than that, it's I mean

(56:29):
we should talk about like how freaking amazingly shot and
the special effects are.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
In this Yeah, and it is.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
It's beautiful and some of the things that you and
I love as far as film nerds, like our favorite
things miniatures, matte paintings.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
It's because, like we had said earlier on, there is
only one scene that takes place that's outside, that is
actually at a location. Everything else is on these stages,
So you do have these amazing matte paintings that are
lit and then these huge pieces in the studio.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
You're not trying to I feel like they're not trying
to hide the fact that they are. Like you know
how sometimes matte paintings are done like for instance, like
did You're Diabolic? The matte paintings are done to look real,
whereas this I feel like they are not.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
You're in a story.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
You're in a story, so you're looking everything has a
dreamy like fantastical element to it. There are so much
where like like.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
But it does.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Having vaginas and like dis I was like, what is
what yeah, which I had. It took me several watches
to figure that out. I remember reading that in an
article and then being like what No, And then when
I rewatched.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
It was like, oh, oh, it's kind of all over.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
Them, sir.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's and you're and you're right, but
it's not so it's not cheesy. That's the thing is.
It's not bad, it's very very well, but it's.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Not taken super seriously either.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
Well, I mean in the sense of like that it's
not it's not comical, but it's not.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
I guess it's meant to feel art like artificial. Yes,
you like you feel like this is you are in
this person's dream. There's nothing where they're trying to say,
oh no, no, we're on.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
There's just so many like animal symbology we have, like
for like the very bell book and candle very like
we have like we have toads and out of place
like snakes and things like that, like there are and
there are creatures and hedgehogs and little like elements, and
there's dirt and filth, and like there are so many

(58:51):
things that are again like these beautiful like storytelling, storytelling
like fairy tale story like there creatures and divinity and
things like that that are in this I just think
there's such a beautiful film it is.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
And the thing that they that I really love about
this one, and I love Legend, Legend this is that's
one of those things. I could do a whole dissertation
on the fact that always do Legend right and Legends
a great film, but it's an extremely flawed film in
a lot of ways. But there's still a lot of
joy that I have with that film. And the one
thing if I were to compare and contrast at this

(59:31):
moment talking about the filming and the practical aspects of it,
is that everything, even in the darkness of Legend, there
is a lot of color, and you know, things can
disappear into the shadows, but there's a lot of there's feels.
It doesn't it's muted and it's dirty. It doesn't have pops.

(59:54):
It does, and that's the thing is that it has
these moments of pops at very specific things. But it
looks like even though you're in a fairy tale, it
still feels like a dirty, lived in world. It feels
like it has grit and texture to it. It doesn't
feel like a hyper sensationalized fantasy.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
Right right. But the the pops of color I think
are the intentional, like dripping sensuality that are supposed to
be prevalent throughout the film, like her hood being like
the red hood, the rose going from white to red,
the blood in the milk, the like the red is

(01:00:35):
overwhelmingly in this in different ways.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
And and Neil Jordan is not trying to be like, Haha,
I snuck one in under it. No, this was red writing.
It's like, this is red riding hood, and this is
red riding hood if she were to hit puberty and
be romanticized by by a stranger in the woods. Yeah,
it's it's like, it's right there, folks, here we go.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Yeah, it's really wonderful. It's it's such great filmmaking and storytelling.
You can never make a film like this today. You
never be able to get away with with any of
this at all, for good or for bad. People can
decide for good or for bad, you know very much.
You couldn't make Leon the Professional today and have that

(01:01:22):
Natalie Portman character with those subtexts of.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
The interviewed the vampire. They aged up Claudia.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Uh huh, Yeah, that was a shoot. I'm totally spacing
off on her name, but I mean basically, you've got
a nine year old girl in there. Yeah, Kirsten dunst Is,
you know, you know what, she's like eight?

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Nine?

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Yeah, eight or nine years old when she does that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
But what is Claudia? Yeah, actually younger, but yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
Right, but she becomes arrested at her age, and so
she's like functioning at what she's supposed to be, like
eighty years old at point in time, and is even
angry about the fact that she's stuck in this pre
pubescent body while everybody else gets to be an adult
and and do what they want to out in this world. Yeah,
it's it's it's definitely playing with taboo, definitely, and and

(01:02:17):
and I get why that can be a complication and
an issue today with storytelling considering what has gone on,
But yeah, you could never make that kind of that
story today.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
No, not as not as as they're not hiding it,
Yeah they're not. That's you can't. It would have to
be more If we're going to do something in that
in and now of that nature, it would definitely have
to be more hidden. It wouldn't have it couldn't be

(01:02:51):
as like very open as this.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
Is, right, and and I think having been the problems
there has been in real life child yeah right, right, right, well,
and just the problems with child actors having gone through
a lot of the traumatic incidents of having to grow
up too fast and all that. The idea of having
even with the context, if you were to say, look,

(01:03:14):
this is context, and this is what we're doing. We're
not saying it's good or right, but we're here's the
context of this very young person who is supposed to
be like eighty years old and they're really upset about
not ever. You know, you can't have that. There's no
way to get around that context because real life has
just destroyed that too much. You can have it on

(01:03:36):
the page, but you couldn't have it on the picture.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
Yeah, such a great film though. This was a fantastic suggestion. Oh,
it was so great to revisit this film and revisit
it as a person having now been a filmmaker and
worked in this world and grown up and changed and

(01:04:02):
is able to see this kind of filmmaking with different lenses.
It's really fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:04:10):
I mean, we get to see I said earlier, We
get to see those elements of raw filmmaking. That is
what makes being working with film special. Yeah and magical.

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
Yeah, yeah, this is great filmmaking. I mean to have
been Neil Jordan back in the early eighties and making
a film like this, just man, what a great time,
What an amazing feeling. That must have been probably scary
as hell at the time, Yeah, but still fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
What are we watching next, Martin?

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
This is going to be a surprise for you. What
we're gonna watch next. I really am excited for you
to watch this film because I don't think you have
seen Promising Young Woman. I haven't, Okay, cool, Yeah, Promising
Young Woman is a fantastic film. It is so good

(01:05:13):
and it's one of those films. So for me, it
when I watched it, it probably became definitely a top
ten but probably really close to a top five film
of all time, okay, and it became one of the
best films that I had seen, you know, in decades.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
It Wow. Yeah, that's what the live updo.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
Man, It's it is sounds great.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
I'm looking forward to it. I have zero I have
zero knowledge of this film. Yeah, so I'm excited. I
like a good surprise. I mean I was surprised with
Dinner America. I'm gonna be surprised with this one.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
Excellent. All right, cool, Gretchen, Well, I will see you
next time. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
To check the Gate podcast is hosted by Martin Vavra
and Gretchen Brooks. The show is directed, produced, and edited
by Martin Vavra. Produced by Galaxy Sailor Productions twenty twenty five.

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
The show is.

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
Filmed and recorded at the Propulsion Zone Studio in downtown Portland, Oregon.
Special thanks to Adam Carpinelli and Aleandro Barragon