Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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See because when we first see that with the Cape
Buffalo in there, it is literally a featureless, dark character
(01:05):
with these red eyes moving through there, and it's like, Wow,
what is this? This is amazing, And so.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
It's also probably people like thinking that they saw Like
if you think about it, for sure, it has to
be like is like where is the whist where those
come from? Like, yeah, Foxfire all that stuff. Yeah, that's
maybe this is a type of that.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Hey, Gretchen, hey Mardin, thanks for being back here. Yeah,
and thanks all of you for being back here. This
is a check the Gate podcast where Gretchen and I
watch movies and then we talk about them and we
never know where the discussion is going to lead to.
And this episode we are diving into the art world filmmaking. Uh,
this is an interesting one. This is called Uncle Boone
(01:54):
me who recalls his past lives. This one was definitely
an art house film. It was a con favorite years ago.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Yeah what twenty ten?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Twenty ten. I chose this because I am a huge
Till the Swinton fan. I have. If I were to
have a top five actors, Till the Swinton would be
one of them. And in an interview, Till the Swinton
was talking about how she loved this film and she
loved it so much, and then the director turned out
(02:25):
was a fan of her, so they ended up making
a film together. But this was the one she just
really loved it, and I was like, Okay, I'm going
to offer this one up because I had never seen
it before.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
You had seen I'd seen it before. It However, with
the caveat that, every single time I watched this film,
it had a mesmerizing quality that made fall asleep. So
I've watched it. I had watched it in fragments because
they have a very there's a very image, like a
(02:56):
very prominent image that is when people will see this
film or like talk show this film, like trailers of it, whatnot,
of his black figure with red glowing eyes and a
jungle background, and that's like stands out in my mind.
It's like burned into my brain. But yeah, I always
fell asleep. This Wille and mel Gibson's Hamlet does that
(03:18):
to me. I don't know why, Oh an inception, those
three movies, Like if I didn't take a nap on
one of those three on so bad. It's not even
that he don't like these films.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Don't get me wrong.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
I do. They just have this they cast this spell
of sleep on.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
I have this quality about them. Yeah, well, we'll get
into some of the nap inducing qualities of this film.
I do want to mention the director's name. Oh boy,
it's it's uh and I apologize. So this is a
Thai film. It is it is directed and written by
a director from Thailand. So I'm gonna say their name here.
(03:59):
I'm probably just gonna to him as director after this
because as I feel bad about it, but I would
butcher this name a pit acpong. We're as some thank call.
So it's a difficult one. I will refer to as
director from now on so that I don't make a
mess of that each time.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Well, probably even pronounces very like softly too, as we
kind of discover in the movie, like how Thai is
spoken is really like very it's kind of a very
like willowy language.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Absolutely, and there are there's. It's interesting, there are several
interesting names as we also go there's because we have
uncle boone me, but then we are introduced to later
one of his son, which is Boon Song, and then
we have his well, his sister in law Jen, and
(04:49):
then we have his other son who is alive Tong,
who are characters in there. We have the wife who's
passed away Huey. So yeah, I guess we can kind
of set up a little bit of the premise. I
know that we're gonna we're gonna talk about all sorts
of things. We're probably gonna end up talking about a
lot of art house film in here, a lot of
(05:10):
kind of budget things, talking about how people make ethereal
existential films in their own artistic ways. It's a bit
of a tough film to talk about. This was This
was definitely a grand experiment for me and the show well.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
As far as like linear storytelling, there's none of that
absolutely correct, because we're right off the bat. I think
that you get really hopeful at the very beginning because
it has this beautiful like scenery, like we're seeing like
this jungle scene, and this gorgeous like narration over the
(05:50):
beginning where he kind of talks about like how he
saw a light and how he saw a darkness and
like the journey of human strength and spirit, and it's
this kind of strange, like very like provocative I guess
not really provocative, that's not really the word, but just
(06:10):
an interesting He just says a really interesting narration at
the very beginning, which isn't actually been me. I've read
that it was a different voice actor who did the narration, right, Yeah,
I was like, oh, oh, I thought it was. So
we're actually not even being narrated by any of the
characters and the stories, like, is this like a Greek chorus?
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, yeah, it's yeah. I don't know who the narrator
is since it is a different person who they are
as a character within the story.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Or not in the story.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
They're not in the story, but it's yeah, it has
this contemplative, existential reality to it, you know, and it
very much feels like a voice of someone looking back
across their life. Yes, and kind of setting the stage
for us there. But yeah, yeah, it's a it's an
(07:03):
interesting film. You know, any finished film is an accomplishment.
It just is it's so difficult.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
You get you have made the film.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yeah, it's because it's very very.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
It's hard, it's tough, and this is being shot in Thailand,
and it's really warm there and really like I mean
I already lives there, is like okay with it, but like,
you know, it is warm in the gym.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I have never been to Thailand. It's it's on the
it's on the bucket list for me, so hopefully someday. Yeah,
I can't imagine. It's a very easy place to shoot
from and we do. Actually we you know, we spend
most of our time in this little village near a
tamarind farm, and we even start out, one of the
first images is of a villager who is out with
(07:55):
their cape buffalo that escapes before we're introduced to one
of the little forest monkey men, which is what they are. Yeah,
this is a This film is going to interweave mythology
of forest beings, and it's going to talk about existentialism.
(08:16):
It's going to bring past lives into it, it's going
to bring current relationships into light. And as our one
character is kind of I guess analyzing their final days
of death and like a very purposeful like all the
way down to the location of how our person dies.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Well, I'm not going to pretend to be an expert
on Thai culture, mythology or anything like that. I'm going
to caveat that. I think constantly caveating myself. But I
am not an expert on Thai culture. However, there are
some things I do know, like about Buddhism and Thai
Buddhism specifically is intrinsically tied into animism, which is their
(09:03):
kind of parent belief system. Before Buddhism was introduced to
the Taye people, and that has some deep seted seated
like mythos with like people having their souls entwined with animals,
and like the goblins and things like that are all
(09:28):
like aspects. They're all nature and animal like qualities to them.
For instance, they're the I think the very beginning when
we get introduced to like the story at the beginning
of the story where there's a water buffalo that's kind
(09:48):
of gone tied and then like one of the villagers
is going after it, like that water buffalo is has
a I feel like they were trying to kind of
convey this as a past life. I'm starting to realize
now all these weird scenes that will go into later
(10:10):
might actually be like where he's talking about recalling past lives.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
I started to wonder too, because what we learn through
all of this is we have our central character, Uncle
Boon Me. He has one son that is alive. He
has one son that has disappeared who we get reintroduced to.
He also has his sister in law that is still
there with him. They all live close next to each other,
(10:37):
and then he has a wife who's passed away. WHOI,
And then we also learned that he was a fighter
against communists at one point in time, which we get
to see little possible little bits of towards the end
of the film.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Possibly, Yeah, But I almost wondered if the Cape Buffalo
was supposed to be a symbol of the nation trying
to break away and run away from its presumed captives,
the Communists, and that that villager was the Communists because
they eventually caught up to them and captured them and
tied them back up and kept them domesticated as opposed
(11:15):
to their brief moment of freedom as well that away. Okay, Yeah,
that's the thing is is this is this film. It's
it is a wild ride like that because it is not,
like you said, there's no plot and there's no strong
narrative to this story, and there's a lot of very long,
still quiet, dialogue free scenes that could you could like
(11:41):
you could make them represent almost anything that you want
to free yourself. And the filmmaker had something that they
represented to them. It meant something if nothing else. They
were running out the clock. So they could have a
future film. That's a possibility. There are people who have
done that, but.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
There are thirty minutes that off this film.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
This film could have been thirty to forty five minutes shorter,
because it doesn't. And I guess if you want to
take those as meditation time in the scene from a
Buddhist perspective, you could meditate inside of that and what
does this mean? Or fall asleep or fall asleep, you
(12:19):
could do that. But that's I mean, that's a lot
of what this And I very purposely did not do
research into what this director feels that the entire movie
and the scenes mean to them, because it doesn't matter.
I can't have their lived experience. It won't matter to me.
They can take up this is could be like a
Matthew Barney thing where it's like a guy sitting in
(12:41):
the back of a sixty six muck staying rubbing vasolene
on a thread that goes across from the front seat
to the back seat is meant to represent some sexual
revitalization in a teenage boy. And it's like, Matthew Barney,
how the fuck did you get all of that from
some dude wrapping basoline threads in a car? And it's like,
(13:02):
like anybody could make shit up. And if you have
to make a primer for your movie, then I probably
don't want to what's your movie?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
This is the same guys, the molecules in the ring, Yeah,
this is Chemizon.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Yeah exactly. The grapes rolling out of a cup on
a shoe represents how the chromosomes, Yeah, and how the
Yeah during sexual reproduction, go yeah, Matthew Barney to have
your money and burn it in films like this. But
he made a Film's made like eight or nine films.
(13:34):
Matthew Barney's made like he made the whole cream Master
five series. There's the river of fundament, like the guys
had money to burn all over the place. He's literally
there's in one of his films. I think it's uh
Crea Master three or cree Master four. He's got an
entire series where he is dressed up with uh like
goat prosthetics on his face and he's crawling through a
(13:58):
kid's it's a it's a kid's play structure in a park,
but it's like a it's kind of like a tube,
but it's an irregular tube of different chambers and different
moves and stuff, so you can crawl through this thing.
But he he has a theme the entire inside of
this thing is coated with vasileine, So he is like
(14:21):
a goat man crawling through this basoline covered structure and
it's just and he's like, that means something to him.
Check out page seventy two of my premer of why
vasolene covered play structures are representative of this thing. So
that's Matthew Barty and we're on to our art this
discussion now.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
So I hope he didn't win any cads.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Who knows he Yeah, he's got his money, but yeah,
so you know. That's so I didn't do a deep
dive into the director's explanation on why all of this
means something because it's not going to mean the same
thing to me.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
No, And I think that's some of the things we
tell about when you and I were watching this film together,
is that there are things that we are not going
to understand or interpret properly because it is not our culture.
But I feel like that's where this is drawing from
to create these this like you said, meditation, and that
(15:18):
kind of struck me because I feel like this almost
is that that meditation of when when you if you
have the if you get to have the knowledge of
your passing that you're going to pass. Some people come
from a surprise, but some people get to live out
the end of their days and having those that meditation
(15:39):
and being able to have that reflection. This, I feel
like this is a very Buddhist statement in this film,
if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, absolutely, it's a it's it's an interesting film to watch.
It's this is definitely not a film that I would
I would necessarily watch again after now having on through it,
but it's it's definitely it definitely feels like it's trying
to be his exploration of Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
I mean, now that I'm thinking about it, more like
it definitely. There are these moments, some highlights. I don't
want to get too far in the story, but there
seems to be like there's a dinner that happens. They're
sitting down as a family to have a meal together
(16:27):
and the ghost of his dead wife appears, like she
kind of materializes or totally unprompted, totally unprofited appears and
they don't even but the sun does get up and
kind of go whoa like But at first like people
are like like who are you okay? Or who ay?
Are you okay? And she's what I loved about her
(16:51):
acting is that she was probably I don't know if
this was like intentional or if she is the this
was just that she was a first time actor or whatever,
but she played that role so monotonely, like that sounded
(17:12):
like a dead person. Like she was like, yes, I'm fine.
And then but they're not like why are you here?
They're not like super shocked. I mean, the sun is
a little bit yeah, but then he kind of sits
back down and starts eating dinner with them, and then
a second guest arrives at dinner.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Oh boy. So remember I was talking about that that
image of like the black figure with like the red eyes. Yeah,
that's Boone's song. Well, and I'm you probably understand. You
seem to get more of a grasp with this. With
the monkey people thing, I was like, it's Chewbacca. It's
evil Tobacca. It's Chewbacca.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah. Well, so what had happened is the mom died
and in his grief three years later, he wandered out
into the woods. But now we start to get into
that he's a photographer and he was taking pictures and
he came across these like almost like bigfoot images and
it's and it looks like large monkeys of some sort,
(18:17):
you know, these large images that are jumping in the tree.
So he tries to get to that, and in his
story he ends up falling in love with the ghost
of a monkey woman.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
That's right, and they're ghost monkeys.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yes, he says, yeah, the ghost monkey spirit. And so
that's when he decides to commit himself to the monkey
man spirit of the forest. He commits himself to it,
and so exactly the animism, and so he he essentially
grows hair across all of his body and becomes kind
(18:56):
of a sasquatch.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Of scary red eyes.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Yeah, so that's that, since we're there. That is an
image that is so good. I remember seeing that in
images from the film and little trailers where they would
say because when we first see that with the cape
buffalo in there, it is literally a featureless, dark character
with these red eyes moving through there, and it's like, wow,
(19:22):
what is this? This is amazing, And so it's also.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Probably people like thinking that what they saw, Like if
you think about it, for sure, it has to be
like is like will of the Whist where those come from? Like, yeah,
foxfire all that stuff. Yeah, that's maybe this is a
type of that.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
It's a spirit. Yeah, so it's an and you nailed it.
It's an animistic spirit of the forest. When that creature,
that character Boon Song comes and joins them at their
dinner table in our film and they're coming up the stairs,
it's that same kind of featureless character with the red
glowing eyes. It's amazing until it sits down and joins them. Yeah,
(20:00):
and then that's when we get the person in kind
of a prosthetic sasquatch suit with the face cut wild looking.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
He kind of looked like those famous Ringling brothers were
wolf boys, right. He totally looked like that. Yeah, with
scary red eyes. Yeah, which you know, those contacts look painful.
I don't know why. Yeah, I know it's twenty ten
and like contacts are great by then, Like, but it
just looked like it looked irritated the whole time.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
But I he also again, like like Huay, he played
it very monotonely. There was no like rise and fall
like his like everybody's making tie but like they're like tonally.
He's just like telling his story. And when I met
the Monkey woman and fell in love and it's like
very like that tone is just completely like flat, just
(20:49):
like Huay. But Huay doesn't make much eye contact. She's
kind of like this the whole time.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
You pointed that out. That was really great. I thought
that was great. She makes no eye contact.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, she does lay at one point, but it's not
like direct it's like indirect eye contact. She doesn't seem
to be like like looking somebody in the face or
like looking intently. She's seems to be like very just
kind of withdrawn and drawn. But I mean that's what
(21:20):
you expect if you're gonna I mean, it would expect
a ghost to be like that. And the story isn't linear, right, like,
so there's not like a this is what happens and
this is what carries on to the next thing. It's
we are literally drawing from our imaginations for this one,
because there are these moments of where we're, uh we
(21:46):
are I guess they're like I can't decide if they're
tails or are they recalling past lives. There's this fucking
phenomenal one that I was just howling at and it's
like this, yeah, oh okay, so here we are. We're
in the forest and like there were we see this
perspective of like a lace veil and a like several
(22:10):
men carrying a woman in a like what are those called, Like.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, I don't know the specific name, but it is
it's like a human drawn carriage.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, Like they're carrying her like a little carriage thing
and it's covered in like veils and things like that,
and we kind of ascertain that she's like a disfigured princess.
She is kind of reaches out her hand out of
the veil and like strokes the head of one of
the serving guys and he kind of looks back at her,
and then we kind of cut to where they're at
(22:43):
the edges of the shore of a waterfall. By the way,
Martin points this out to me while we're watching this,
because I was like, wow, why does that look so
crazy because everything's shot in daylight and the night filter it.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Yeah, they they turned all the expos down to make
it look like like it's evening, but it's shot so
they're in the shade of the trees. But then the
waterfall is in broad daylight and it's over exposed on
whatever it is, either of the film or digitally, so
there's a lot of information that's lost in the overexposure,
(23:18):
and then when they brought everything down to decrease the
exposure to get that night feel, it gets this really
odd ethereal you know, waterfall effect. It's very it's very odd. Yeah,
and I'm a I mean, I could very much assume
that was something where they were like, oh, that's cool,
we're keeping that in there. Maybe it was intentional, or
(23:40):
maybe they're like, how do we fix it because it's
all blown out. Oh, we'll make it evening.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
It's wild looking at it creates this just buzzarre like
kind of dreamy like quality to it. But anyways, sorry,
Folds is like, and again, like I said, this is
not linear like storytelling. We're not We're not actually being
given this information. This is totally ascertained from what we're
(24:07):
looking at. She tries to make out with the serving guy.
He kind of spurns her, and he sees her reflection
in the water and that's what he's kind of like.
The serving guy is like turned on by but when
he pulls back her veil, it shows her face being
like completely messed up, and this is kind of a cool,
(24:30):
like prosthetic effect on her, and he spurns her and
runs away. But while she's standing there crying and she
starts singing, and this is again, is like one of
the first music we really kind of hear in this
whole movie, Like it is mostly crickets, like and that's
about what we hear the whole time throughout the entire film.
(24:53):
But the uh, she's standing by the sitting by the
river banks, crying and like looking at her reflection. And
then this catfish starts talking to her.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
In the reflecting pool, but he is the one who
created the reflection of her looking like perfect, and he's like,
but I still see you that way, and she's all like, oh, catfish,
and I'm not.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Why can I not find men like you? The same idea?
Speaker 2 (25:21):
And then there is she gets she goes into the
water to be with the catfish and basically.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yeah, and she's dropping all of her jewelry because she's
very adorned, and she says, I want you to see
me as I would be without.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
All of this, yes, And she's like pulling off her
veils and her like all of her drip and then
the catfish eats her out.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
This this is not where the idea of being catfished
actually made it into our social lexicon. This is a
different kind of catfishing.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
What we saw like a long, long seed for what
it's worth of being like the camera shoots down to
like a catfish, like flipping between her legs, and she's convulsively.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah, she lays herself in.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
The water, ma'am.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Moves herself over and yeah. I didn't know what was
going to come about from that. And then when it
it was literally happening, and you had to say that's
what it is, and it was like my brain didn't
want to admit that.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Is happening. She is getting head who from a catfish?
Good gravy, ma'am? I was howling.
Speaker 5 (26:47):
I so in reflection of that, now that I'm more mature,
one day later, I think.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
That he was the catfish. You think who was the catfish? Oh?
You think that was a past life and he has
a catfish?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Definitely?
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Was that? Then? Was the princess? Was that a past
life of Hui?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Maybe I don't think it was important of being her,
But because this is his recollections of his past life's
perspective wise, either he is the princess or he is
the catfish.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Well, what if he was the rejected hand.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Well, we wouldn't have got to see that perspective then,
because we're only seeing I.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Have any perspective, we're seeing the perspective.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
From his life. So at least this is my interpretation
the princess, the princess, Well, I'm saying he could be
either the princess or it could be the cat. Yeah,
because either one we're seeing the perspective of that one
of those characters.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Oh for sure, I don't know. And that is that
is the thing is, there is no segue into this.
There is nothing that gets us into the story. Suddenly
we are in the jungle and we're literally like in
a stat shot and eventually we're like, what is happening?
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Right?
Speaker 1 (28:03):
And then eventually that that carriage comes through with all
these guys carrying her, And it took us a little while, but.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Because we knew that, like there was a scenario where
the were talking about the sun registering to get there's
a few discourse about like the Laos and like like
Laotian people and like Thai people, and I know there's
like some racism there, but like we're not going to
get into that because.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
We I don't understand the dynamic and I would right, So.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
There is that, and then there's some of that discussion
happens earlier on when before at dinner, before the ghosts arrive,
but there is a like a point of topic where
they had said that he was registering to get a
wife or something like that. So we were like, he's
getting a wife.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Right, and he was having to travel to the city
for that too.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
And that was traveling meet each other. Yeah, absolutely, and
then well boy, yeah catfish.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
And the thing is, so we the cat's sory, and
there's also we have our one catfish that is communicating
with her and then is satisfying her. But there's other
catfish that are in the pool because we end up
plunging into the pool and we see even though she's
already dropped them, we get to see I guess maybe
(29:20):
it's her jewelry kind of in the churn is being
tossed around, and then we get to see all the
other catfish. So there's spectators in there as well as
our one.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Catfish, all these actual catfish. Like Jesus, what's happening.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
So the catfish that are in the pool are actually
the reincarnated spirits of all of the people of Lago
from High Plane Stricter, who are spectators watching all of
this happening and not actually engaging in it. This not
knowing it. We have tied. They brought these films together.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
I hope people are watching the episodes one after the
other because they're gonna be like, what are you guys
talking about? Watch episode hype Plane Drifter.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
To watch our High Planes Drifter episode. It was an
excellent one. I've connected them. This is it's one universe.
This is the Clint Eastwood.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
If you want to really connected, and you can talk
about the caves and then the caves being the same stage.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
It's in the same universe. This is in the it's
all in the same universe because it's true because they
go into a cave and have a whole trippy, weird, long.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Get out of ourselves. That's like, that's like the third
act right there.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
That's that's that's definitely the end. Yeah, well it lasts
long enough. It's like three third acts okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
And lots of shifts there.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
So after that there is well and then there.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Is no segue. You can literally go to whatever you want.
We're just back out.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
We're back in the tamar in far and like the
sister is kind of he's kind of setting her up, right,
he is setting the sister up for success, for like
to take over his camera and find because knowing that
he's dying, and she's like, I don't want this, I
don't want to be in charge of this, and he's like,
this is what's happening, and whether you like it or not,
(31:20):
death is happening.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Yeah. Yeah, and they're very everyone's very accepting of his death.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yeah, nobody seems like nobody seems to be like, oh no,
don't go, but yeah, yeah no. But I think that's
part of the whole tie like Buddhism thing, is like
he's like, I'm just gonna recarnate, and that's why he's
trying to set up things for like good for doing
the good Karnix cycle is like making sure that everybody's
looked out for and making sure that everybody's like set
(31:48):
up and whatnot. I think that's what is uh is
what's happening there and that we that we keep getting
these reflections and then there's those that scenes of like
photographs that are happening with there with with weird sound effects. Yeah,
that I did not understand because there was like literally
(32:10):
a gorilla suits with a noose around it, right, but
not like they're like, oh, we couldn't do that like
monkey effect anymore, not in that vein. It's like literally, right,
a fucking gorilla suit.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
It has a little pp on it too.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, it was really weird. I didn't notice that at first,
thank you. It was like, oh, okay, that's weird. It's
just weird.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
It's weird.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
And they were dressed as soldiers, but then there's the
not soldiers and the other photographs. It's so strength.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
It's it is weird. Well because at first when we
see the person in the gorilla suit, they're dragging them along,
it's as if they have a captive, like.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
They either everybody's smiling right well.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
And that's the bizarre thing, is everybody's smiling, but you know,
who knows what the person in the monkeys they're not
trying to make that be something else. So I was like,
was this a person in a monkey suit that was
trying to do something and scare them like they were
trying to like, you know, be a boogeyman of the
forest because of the animistic mythology that they have, or
were they humiliating a person by putting them in a
(33:16):
monkey suit and parading them around and doing that. But
then as the photographs progress, the person's got their arm
around us.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Yeah, I think you were doing something funny, like they
were like having a good time.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Right, and again back with the Cape Buffalo thing, It's like,
is this them because he talked about how he had
been a part of killing thousands of communists and they
were fighting them off, So now is this a flashback
to his life? And then the progression is them all
accepting their place with the new people who have come
into the country or Yeah, I don't I don't know
(33:52):
what it means. It doesn't make a lot of sense.
And the fact that it's a gorilla, like gorillas are
only endemic to very particular places in Africa, they are
not anywhere near that that continent, so I don't understand
the relevance of it. Yeah, yeah, it's very interesting. It's
(34:12):
all crazy.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
What is it the whole what is that adage?
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Mileage may vary, yes, absolutely, Yeah, objects and mirror are
closer than they appear. Yeah, I got to read all
the subtitally things of other stuff. Yeah, there's it, you know,
it I'm sure it all means something to someone, but
it's it's You've made really good points several times, both
when we were watching it and in this that there
is a lot of cultural aspects of this that are
(34:38):
just things that I'm not going to get. So while
I have some levity about this film and fun moments,
I don't want it to be that I'm also in
turn making fun of this because it is a film.
It's a film that they did, it was an important
film for them, and while I may not get it,
I'm I'm mostly laughing at my not being able to
(35:02):
understand things, and not the aspects of the film. The
film is intentional, but also too long, and it is
it is, it's gigantic for what you got. This had
a seven hundred thousand dollars budget.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
That is an issue.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
I would have never guessed that. I would have thought
that this film had like one hundred and fifty thousand
dollars budget.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
That's what it looks like.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Yeah, yeah, and that's the thing. And in twenty ten,
seven hundred thousand dollars. So if I put this into perspective,
I remember a film that I love safety not guaranteed.
I love that film. It's an Audrey Plaza film. I
revisit that film all the time. I adore it. I
actually look up to that film as how you can
(35:47):
make a low budget indie film and pull something off.
It has Mark Duplace in it, who is really great.
That film was made for four hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
How they pulled it off for that budget, I have
no idea. And mostly at that time, Marks was kind
of a low budget mumblecore guy who's super talented, but
like he was just making stuff and into it. I
(36:08):
think Audrey Plaza might have been trying to really break
out of her uh places being recognized. Well, I don't
think she was quite in She might have been in
parks and recreation at the time. I forget the years
of parks and rec but you know, she's great, She's
awesome and almost everything she does. So it's it's a
very well made, low budget film. And so then I
(36:29):
look at this other one that's nearly double that, that's
mostly just locked off still shots of people not talking
about this for a long time.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
For me, that would have made it like a better
film guy to say that term. But I think that
like the cinematography is.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Like, there is no cinematography in this.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
It all this looks like I shot it like yeah,
I mean honestly, like is like you said, locked shots.
Everything is like boom face odd. There is no like
artistic interpretation at all, Like nothing is like a side angle.
There are artistic moments, like the moment where Jen is
(37:14):
sleeping and Juan Huay is watching her sleep and then
fades out like beautiful. Yeah, there, those shots were gorgeous.
I don't know how how that's done or whatever, And
it's probably like some kind of composite I don't know,
twenty ten. This is digital, so probably digitally.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Remov Usually it's not hard to do.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Yeah, so those effects really cool artistic in my opinion,
but they're for the most part there, which is probably
what makes it very a sleepy movie for me, is
that it's very like still and quiet and again meditative.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
If we analyze this section of the film, it's interesting
because we've got Jen who has a disability. She has
one leg that shortered in the other. She has a
shoe that she wears all of the time, and then
she walks with a cane. But she's still alive. She's
the sister and she's there living with Boon me and
who is back? So yay, Who's back? And I think
(38:14):
we had been gone for nineteen years? Is that how
long she had been passed away? So a long time
they've lived without her and now here is her ghosts.
So we have this moment where Jenna is in bed
asleep and who he is looking over her. But in
the real world now for whatever the afterlife.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Is, she's able to interact with the with them now.
But I think that might be kind of a hearkening
to the fact that he's dying, and so there is
the veil between worlds is kind of opening up a lot.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Literally a veil on the bed and there's a veil, right.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
And also like when who is like helping him with
his dialysis or whatever?
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah, his kidney port.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Yeah, so she's helping with that, and but she's physically
interacting it. But I did notice that she only physically
touches when me. Yes, So maybe because he is at
the end of his life cycle that she is able
to have that like physical the physical is able to connect, right. Well,
(39:18):
that's again.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
And it could be and I'm thinking more of when
who is there with Jen Jen's asleep and who is
watching her? And she fades out, But we spend a
long time. Like we start out, there's a there's an
initial shot of Gen being in bed and we're actually
right up against the bug netting the veil, but we're
right up against the bug netting of the bed. It
adds this kind of interesting, you know, kind of angelic
(39:43):
look to the lens and all that as we're looking,
which would be that could be like a POV shot
from from who's point of view? Then we pull out.
We spend so much time just sitting there. Nothing happens,
and the.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Conversations are very mundane. Yeah, they're so mundane. Yeah, Like
they're talking about like, don't step on those bugs, like
I mean, because well, because they're Buddhists, don't step on bugs. Yeah,
but they it's just oh and like Jen was doing
it intentionally, like stepping on bugs, and like Hue or
(40:18):
Budden was like, don't do that.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Yeah. Yeah, they're beneficial, yea, yeah, they were beneficial to
think so.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
And yeah, but for the most part, the conversations were
very like, very very mundane, and everybody's very soft spoken
in this film. Gosh, let's see the photographs happened, the
cart happened, or the not cart, but the catfish.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Yeah, I don't even remember the full order of all
of that, because it seems like the photograph section happens
once they've gone to the cave. I think, as he's
starting to die.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yes, so let's go to the cave. Are we there yet?
Are we ready for me to be there?
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Any time? I want to?
Speaker 2 (41:00):
So we take a journey, with our.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Very long journey through the forest.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
Passing all the those monkey ghosts. There's like a bunch
of them in the forests. Yeah, as we and it
kind of remind me of a little bit and like
in a like a spirited away a little bit or
like Mononoke, like those like things that like tilt their
(41:32):
heads to the little forest Brits. Yeah, they have that
kind of vibe because they're just watching. They're not malevolent.
That's the other thing is that nothing in this film
has a malevolence to it. It's all very like.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
There's no antagonism whatsoever. It's literally just a person contemplating
a couple of moments in their life.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Even the like catfish sex scene like that is even
not even like not even like a high I mean,
it's a high emotional scene, but it's but for the
way it's played out, it's played very like, yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
It's the highest emotional scene that there is, and it's
really not. That's which was actually kind of what I
was saying was wanting to get to with Whui there
at the bed necks Togen there's a moment of emotion there,
somebody could have emotion or I don't know, I guess
I wanted to have like some camera angles or something
that was more than just this wide static shot that
(42:30):
just went on for a long time that literally nothing
happened right, And even though he fades out, who is
not gone because who is with them the rest of
the time he goes with them to the cave. Now
that we're going through the force in the cave, we
actually touches the trees as they're going through, and she's
walking and this is physically a you know, it's a
(42:50):
real physical person who's having to play a ghost. So
I get it they're having to hold their balance and whatnot.
But it was a thing that I had noticed that
it's like, oh, yeah, she hasn't interacted with anything other
than boon me, and now being able to touch a tree.
Is they're walking through the forest. Does that mean anything?
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Or is this just we're getting to the end of
his life?
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (43:09):
And he when we enter the cave, he says, this
place feels like a womb to me. And he says
I was born here, and I'm like where you I right?
Have I find it?
Speaker 1 (43:25):
It's never talked about ever again. Now it's not explored
in any way. Now you have no idea what happened.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
How the heck did they get his body out?
Speaker 1 (43:32):
No idea? Maybe they don't.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Well, but they're at the Watt having the funeral. There's
he's in the art, isn't he?
Speaker 1 (43:41):
I don't know is he? I mean, he could be.
Most of what I remember from the Watt was Tong's
transition into his time to be a monk.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Yeah. Well, and you also noticed that they were like
the neon lights are just like they were Boxers oben.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Yeah, it was just like Boxer's over. I'm learning a
little bit and you're and you're kind of helping me
out that I didn't realize that being a monk was
a thing that had to be Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
So the one thing I do know about Thai culture
is that one of the things that if your family's
Buddhist and the son, the first son after the parent,
either the mother or the father passes, is supposed to
become a monk for It's kind of like a I
don't know. I think they can choose whether or not
(44:28):
they want to become like a long term monk, but
I think that this is like for the purpose of
the funeral, they have to undergo like that karmic cleansing
and become like a monk for the time period.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
So it's a very ceremonial piece for the family, right.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Kind of like in Judaism, like the scholmer watches the
body for the three days before the funeral. Like that's
that kind of like.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
I didn't know that was a thing.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Oh yeah, yeah, oh yes.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
I did not know. Yep.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
That's fantastic horror about it called the Visit or the Vigil.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Oh, I haven't watched that. I'll have to watch that one.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Yeah, it's a good one.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Okay, another one for the list, yes, yeah, yeah. The
Cave is an interesting one, uh with because it's it's
a very long journey through the Woods's a very long
journey literally the cave. Yeah, the Cave of minerals. I
thought it was a cave of glow worms at first,
but then I was realizing there's no filaments hanging down
(45:27):
off of them, which is usually the thing that glows
to attract bugs to them and they'll catch them and
eat them that way. But it's actually just minerals inside
of their with their flashlight. Yeah, glowing off of all
of that stuff.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Cool.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
We spend a lot of time with it, and you
could make it represent anything that you wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Absolutely, this is a transition from life and to death.
This is the reflection of our lives. This is I mean, seriously,
it has so many things.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
Committing yourself to the universe.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Caves are like underworlds. This is a entrance to the underworld.
There's so many.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
Oh yeah, I didn't even I didn't even think of that.
That was a pretty obvious one, and I should have. Yeah,
I didn't make that it is low hanging fruit. I
might have started to take a nap. I don't remember. No,
I was quite awake for all of this, but it
that one did not hit me. That one was pretty obvious. Yep.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
But we he passes here, he.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Does, and you know, we've kind of mentioned a few
times we had said that he is dying of of
kidney cancer and he's got his kidney port and he's
constantly having to flush out his system. And it's interesting
that his death with this one.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
They open up the port.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
They open up the port and they just literally dump
his fluid out into the cave. He just drains.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Out kind of like Dune.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Like yeah, yeah, it's so it's yeah, this is this
is his end. It's not the end of the film,
and it is not the end of the existential uh
workings of this film. So it just gets weird from here.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Actually, and then this is like I think we're like,
what our third act now, right, Like.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
It could be well, I don't know. So you said
that it was the third act, and I agreed with you,
And then about two sentences later, I was like, oh,
there's that whole strung out part that's after being in
the watt where they're in the room and then the
restaurant karaoke. Yeah, it goes on for like another twenty minutes. Yeah,
(47:28):
so I don't know where the break is.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
For So this that's that's kind of funny, is like
we do the to the what they they have like
a Buddhist funeral, and like everybody's chanting and doing the
you know, the the I'm not.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
Sure what since a ceremony.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
I'm someru chant that you do for the dead, and
the sun is the sun has is enacting and he's
an affront doing all the main representation of the family
and the aunt and the missed other young lady. We
never get introduced to you. It's right next to her.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
All of a sudden, we have a new character that's
been introduced in the third act. We have no idea,
we're never introducer.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
This is a nonlinear film, so having accident of itself,
we're producing this ourselves. We're creating this like act our
discussion is but there's no actually like there's no like
set like it's not it's really not structured at all.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
We never know who this person is. We're never given
a name or who they are.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
They're sitting on the going through the think you the
grievance's cards and because people always give money at typhunerals
and like there is like like collecting money through the
cards and writing down the names like you would like
at a bridal shower for gifts or wedding shower for
gifts that kind of thing. Yeah, and the Sun Tongue
(48:50):
comes into the room and asks to take a shower,
and they're like, oh, no, you shouldn't be we shouldn't
even be interacting with us. And because monks are not
allowed to touch women or like be alone of them. Yeah,
it's a that's a thing.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Like, but they did comment that he only had he
should only have to wait a little bit longer. It
was done.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
But he's he's like he's over it. He's like, I'm
just gonna do my thing. So he's like takes a
shower and gets changed in regular clothes and the three
of them sit down on the edge of the bed
and watch TV and we're watching I want to say,
what's happening at the time? Is I think I remember
hearing about a there was like a huge coup with
the with the royalty in Thailand at the time. But
(49:31):
they're watching some huge event happening on on the television.
And then the Sun is I mean Tong is talking
to Jin and they decide that they're going to go
to eat dinner, and they ask the girl she wants
to go, and she's like no, And then the two
of them get up, But then the camera turns back
(49:52):
and they're still sitting on the bed and the two
of them are standing on the side, and they leave
and go to the right.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
They watch themselves. Yeah, all of a sudden, they're like, oh.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
But they don't question it. They're not surprised.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
Yeah, well there's a little bit. Tong does a little bit.
He's surprised by seeing it, like he goes, oh, we're
still sitting there. But then that's it. But they're not
like it doesn't go.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
On that by that, and they just go down to
the karaoke joint and order food and chill out downstairs.
But it's also a very quiet, like the karaoke music's playing,
and they're like looking at each other, and then the
camera kind of we flashback to them still sitting in
the hotel room and the girl has fallen asleep, but
the two of them are just sitting there, motionless, looking.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
At the And there's no existential other version of this
new character that we got. We have Jen and we
have Tong. They have both split somehow. A version of
them is watching the TV and a version of them
goes to the karaoke bar, but there's no second version
of that new person that we were just introduced to.
So I don't know who. I feel like.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
This was supposed to be like kind of a play
on the how you feel like when you lose someone
like that, like losing a family member, and like that grief,
that kind of out of body grief that you have.
And I feel like, even though nobody was overly emotional
(51:16):
at any point in this film, like I feel like
that was that moment of like coming to terms with
it and that despair that bring that it brings by
losing someone you love.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
Yeah, interesting, I because it.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Has that kind of quality, that gray that like because
when they're at the restaurant, they're just looking at each other.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
Yeah, while karaoke music and a kJ is playing, nobody's
actually singing. It's just playing the music itself, and it's.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
They're singing in those songs, but like, yeah, we.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
Don't see a person a person. Yeah. I struggle to
find elevance to that. Like I could think.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
That that was just like grief setting in. Maybe the
song has some meaning and we don't know true.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
Because that was a tie song. Yeah, yeah, I yeah,
by then, I was, I was, I was out of answers.
I'm sorry. Doesn't mean that they aren't there, but I
was struggling at that point in time for myself, you know,
on on what it could all mean.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
What does it mean rainbow? Yeah, exactly, it'sow.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
So it's a this is this was. This is an
interesting film. It is an interesting experiment. Very glad that
we did it. I don't think I'm going to be
nearly as experimental in the future with such things, or
maybe I will check it out before and not just
go into it blind. This is this is a fun
thing to do from time to time, like this too,
(52:57):
But at the same time, it's just it's just not
a thing that's necessarily meant for me, and I will.
I love the art of film, obviously, and I am
a filmmaker and I make films, and from where we
are right now, in two weeks I shoot a film,
but film I like ideas of existentialism and exploration. But
(53:25):
I'm not necessarily that person that likes the dead silence
of imagery that requires a primer or you can make
it into whatever you want, because I think symptoms people
are going to make it into whatever they want. Anyway.
When people read a book or watch a movie, listen
to music. All of those things represent things that are
specific to them. They get their take out of it.
(53:47):
But this isn't this isn't necessary, Like this is just
isn't made for me. That doesn't make it bad at
all in any way, but this is this style of
filmmaking isn't necessarily a film made for me.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
I would agree with that sentiment. I mean, I felt
like this film was beautiful in a painting way. And
I think I said this in a promising young woman
like film is art and artist meant to make you
feel something, and for me, I it didn't. It wasn't
(54:23):
evocative enough of a like for me to have a
strong reaction. But I do think this was a beautiful
meditation on the Buddhist viewpoint of a life death cycle.
Speaker 1 (54:44):
I accept that. Yeah, I could take that.
Speaker 2 (54:46):
Yeah, I thought it was beautiful. And I really like
the image of the like the ghost monkeys with the
red eyes. It's just it reminds me of Amityville Horror.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
Like I was going to say that back when we
were talking about it, actually, because I would have been
completely satisfied when we get to Boon song being at
the table. Yeah, I wish that had just been that
void character with the glowing eyes for me, because it's
all that's an effect, that's a post effect somehow that
they did. I'm sure that was part of their budget. Yeah,
And it may not have been the strongest a visual effect.
(55:17):
Once that character was sitting at the table, that might
have given a little bit away because we're closer to
it and it's around those other people. But I would
have accepted that more than the guy that was in
that suit.
Speaker 2 (55:29):
It did make it almost comical.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
It very much took me out of it, and I
liked and I would have been totally happy to see
that thing without human eyes, with just those glowing red
eyes that they had, and not have a mouth or
anything else. Yeah, yeah, talking that void of a character
talking would have been great.
Speaker 2 (55:50):
There wasn't like a Baskie Bashki film or like was
that like heavy metal that had that like a monster
that looked like that.
Speaker 1 (55:58):
Oh gosh, oh there could have been.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Oh god, I don't know. I mean, my brain is.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
Like, there's all I mean, yeah, back she could have
had something like that. I don't I don't there wasn't
anything in I remember there was wizards back then, but
I don't think Wizards had a character like that. That
was a crazy film Wizards. That one. Well, i'll tell you.
There were the Ring Raiths that they did when they
(56:23):
did the first Lord of the Rings. Then they did
the Fellowship because that was meant to be a trilogy.
They only ever got Fellowship out, and then the Return
of the King was then done by the folks who
did the musical Hobbit one. But there was that Bakshi
attempt at Lord of the Rings, and I that's probably
what I'm thinking of. I think I would have to
(56:46):
go back and that would be That's what comes to mind.
Speaker 2 (56:49):
Is those Rings.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
And their day before they did American pop. Yeah, yeah, crazy,
they were doing Yeah, they were doing ranking in bask
that's the first. Those are the folks that did that,
did the musical hobbity job.
Speaker 2 (57:08):
There's a whip.
Speaker 1 (57:12):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's the Yeah, that's the folks.
So as we start to build out an audience here,
people will write in the comments and they'll let me
know that I'm wrong, which is great because then we'll
know that we have engagement. So yeah, by all means,
let me know that I got it wrong. I don't
all of them. Yeah, So yeah, well, I very much
(57:33):
appreciate you watching this film with me and talking about
it and kind of exploring some art world aspects of things. Yes, yeah,
and I always I love watching movies with you. This
is pretty great. Even just on our way over to
record this today, we were talking about watching movies, so
it's it's such a big deal for us.
Speaker 2 (57:53):
Well, and I have our next pick, you do.
Speaker 1 (57:55):
I don't know what it's going to be. So what's
our next film?
Speaker 2 (57:58):
Exorcist three?
Speaker 1 (58:00):
It's just a yes, I did know that was going
to be on the list sometime. I'm so excited about
that one.
Speaker 2 (58:05):
Me too. I we're going to talk about there are
a couple of cuts of this film, so we're going
to watch the legion cut and the theatrical cut and
have a discussion about how that played out. Yeah, Miller,
and yeah, it's going to be.
Speaker 1 (58:23):
That's awesome fun. I don't think I've seen the legion cut.
I think I saw that patrical cut. Yeah, so I'm
I am excited for that.
Speaker 2 (58:31):
Yeah, I am excited to share this one. It is honestly,
this would be my whenever anybody says what's your favorite
film and extra sistory, I can watch this film so
many times and still feel something with it and it
is one of my favorites.
Speaker 1 (58:47):
Nice personally, well, I'm excited to do that and as always, Gretchen,
thank you so very much. Yeah, and I will see
you on the next episode.
Speaker 5 (58:58):
See Yah.
Speaker 1 (59:01):
The Check the Gate podcast is hosted by Martin Vavra
and Gretchen Brooks. The show is directed, produced and edited
by Martin Vavra. Produced by Galaxy Sailor Productions twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (59:13):
The show is.
Speaker 1 (59:13):
Filmed and recorded at the Propulsion Zone Studio in downtown Portland, Oregon.
Special thanks to Adam Carpinelli and Aleandro Barragon. This content
is cancredentialed, which means you can report instances of harassment, abuse,
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(59:35):
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