Mari Fong interviews Chris Robertson of Black Stone Cherry and Carly Hester of NAMI, Philly and Clinical Social Worker. Chris Robertson shares his story of being manic depressive or bipolar disorder with anxiety and panic attacks along with his solutions for recovery. *Warning: Suicide and suicidal ideation is discussed. Listener discretion is advised.
Having recently dropped their album "The Human Condition," Chris talks about songs like "Push Down and Turn" and the struggles of depression and mania that come with his condition. Close to committing suicide, he eventually finds help with therapy, medication and more. Chris also talks about self-medicating with drugs and alcohol that led to dire consequences.
Next, we have Carly Hester of NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) speak on the difference between bipolar 1 and 2, and symptoms to look for. Carly also discusses the correlation between gut health and mental health, along with the many resources found through NAMI.org for those with mood disorders and their families.
“Be brave, ask for help, and be persistent in finding the mental help that you need.”
For free or affordable mental help, visit: http://checkyourheadpodcast.com/
* DONATE to our mission at checkyourheadpodcast.com or on our patreon.com page. Every dollar is appreciated, every listener is appreciated <3
- THANK YOU for following us on social media @checkyourheadpodcast
- Watch us on YouTube: checkyourheadpodcast.youtube
Say hello and give us feedback! We love hearing from our Superhero fans ❤️🤘
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:00):
Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, the podcast
where notable musicians andexperts come and share their
stories and solutions for mentalhealth and wellness.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist and life coach
for musicians, and today I havesome exciting announcements.
First, the Check Your Headpodcast has partnered with Sweet
(00:22):
Relief Musicians Fund, a 501c3nonprofit that helps musicians
in need for the past 28 years.
Sweet Relief Musicians Fund hashelped a number of musicians and
their crew staff, especiallyduring the pandemic, and has
also established a mental healthfund.
So if you'd like to support withyour donation, visit
sweetrelief.org or visitcheckyourheadpodcast.com.
(00:46):
Second, the Check Your Headpodcast has a new YouTube
channel with video interviews ofCedar, Gilby Clark, and more.
So be sure to check out our newYouTube channel and please
subscribe.
Third, we have our featuredguest for today.
This band recently dropped theirseventh studio album called The
Human Condition and the liveversion of their single, Again,
(01:09):
just reached number 15 on AltRock Radio.
Our musical guest today is theawesome Chris Robertson, lead
singer and guitarist ofBlackstone Cherry, who shares a
story of bipolar disorder,anxiety, and panic attacks,
along with his solutions forrecovery.
Next, I interview a mentalhealth expert who shares more
(01:30):
about the symptoms of bipolar,our expert being Carly Hester
from NAMI Philadelphia, andwe'll also discuss the
connection between gut healthand mental health.
So let's begin with ChrisRobertson of Blackstone Cherry.
Well, today we have ChrisRobertson of Blackstone Cherry,
and you just released a newalbum called The Human
(01:51):
Condition, which is your seventhalbum.
So congratulations on that.
Thank
SPEAKER_02 (01:57):
you so much.
Yeah, I'm glad to be here.
SPEAKER_03 (02:00):
First of all, how are you surviving and thriving
during this pandemic?
SPEAKER_02 (02:05):
It's been weird.
I mean, I never would havethought ever in my lifetime that
I would have taken essentially ayear off at anyone's mercy but
my own.
I would have never thought thatI would have got told that you
really can't do what you doanymore.
And That was, at first, it waslike, oh, it'll open back up.
(02:28):
And then the longer that went onand the more things that got
canceled or postponed for anentire year, it starts to weigh
on you.
This year's been tough.
There's no two ways around it.
Not only, you know, everyone'sfinancially struggled, but the
bigger picture is how is thisaffecting people mentally?
Because I know for me, I am aperson who is manic depressive.
(02:52):
Clinically, I'm manic depressiveand I have severe anxiety.
So it's either really good orit's really bad.
And sometimes that side slips upon you.
But for me, this year has justbeen about trying to spend time
with family and really lookinginward more than anything.
And I mean, I had to get on anextra medication.
(03:12):
I've taken medication for 10years now, roughly almost, nine,
10 years.
I'm okay with that.
That's what I found that allowedme to wake up and actually
realize the world can bebeautiful and the people in it
can be as well.
I'm an entertainer.
That is what I was born to do.
It's the only thing I've everbeen really passionate about.
(03:35):
And then you've also got toworry about the virus.
And then you've got people in myfamily that don't have the
strongest immune systems,whether they're fighting cancer
or just old age or whatever.
So it's six million worries andone positive.
But for me, no matter how manyworries there are today, I try
to find the one positive andlike latch onto that thing with
(03:59):
everything I got and just try tofigure out a way to make that
the bigger picture of the day.
SPEAKER_03 (04:04):
Well, you know, you have the album, The Human
Condition, and it's got songslike Push Down and Turn that
have a bit of a mental healthmessage.
Is there a message that you'retrying to give out to your fans
with this album?
SPEAKER_02 (04:19):
I mean, essentially for me, it's okay to be a little
fucked up.
Just the hardest part for me wasever admitting that.
Right.
So the biggest thing for me wasgoing, I have a problem and I
need help because as, as a dude,I was raised like you can be the
tough one in the family.
(04:40):
You just, you kind of embraceeverything and take it on and
just take one for the team.
And yeah, For me, it was finallytrying to break that down and
go, okay, you need help.
You've got to do something aboutthis now.
But talking to someone, thefirst time I went and talked to
(05:04):
a doctor who specialized inmental health, it was the most
eye-opening experience of mylife because I had every
preconceived notion going intoit.
They hear the same thing everyday.
They hear this from so manypeople a day.
But the difference is, is whenyou talk to a doctor that
specializes in mental health,they haven't seen that story
(05:27):
every day.
They know that each person isdifferent and you can't treat
mental health like the flu or acommon cold because that's not
how it works.
And the other kind of damningthing about mental health is
It's the only illness you seemto have to prove to someone you
have before they will understandit or begin to accept it a lot
(05:49):
of times.
My dad finds out he has cancerand it's an immediate, oh man,
this is serious.
But when somebody says, I'vebeen going through some shit in
my head, man, it's common justto go, oh, you'll be all right,
man.
You'll brush it off.
I want to get to a place wherepeople can get the same amount
of attention and and respect thepeople that truly need the help.
(06:13):
My hope is that when someonesays, I need help, people's ears
perk up.
Instead of brushing it off,spark a discussion.
It's just about trying to helpbreak down that stigma about
mental health in general, andespecially men.
Just because we have a littledifferent biological makeup,
we're not allowed to do thesethings.
(06:33):
Push Down and Turn is a songthat is literally inward about
what I have to do day to day tounderstand myself and to keep
moving forward.
It's not easy.
Mental health is the weirdestthing in the world because I
have days where I'm the happiestdude on the planet.
(06:53):
And then I have days where nomatter what the circumstances
are, it's just impossible for meto get going.
And those are the days that arehard because for somebody like
me, I know when I am and whenI'm not the best version of
myself.
And I feel like when I'm not thebest version of myself, that
(07:16):
anything I do is not going to begood enough.
Perfect example of that isyesterday.
I was literally so busy tryingto get caught up around home and
I was very frustrated.
And I knew that I could not dothis to the best of my ability,
but it just, it gets back tothat constant battle up here of,
(07:39):
good enough or not, like bad orgood, good enough or not.
Today, I woke up in a prettygood mood and I was like, I'm
going to have a good day.
I've really been on this thing.
Like if you believe somethingenough, you can make that a
reality.
When something as simple assaying, I'm going to have a good
day today.
If you make yourself believeyou're going to have a good day,
you're going to have a good day.
SPEAKER_03 (08:00):
The thoughts in our head do sort of affect our
behavior, affect how we seethings.
And sometimes those positiveremarks are really going to
help.
But then there are times when nomatter how much we try to change
our thoughts, we still are inthis depression, or we still are
(08:21):
in the state of anxiety.
And I know in 2011, things kindof came to a head for you.
The suicidal thoughts, turnedinto a possible suicidal action.
So can you tell me some of thefeelings and some of the events
that led up to that time?
I
SPEAKER_02 (08:39):
think it was just letting things build up over the
course of, let's see, I wouldhave been 26, getting ready to
be 27.
And I think a lot of it was juststuff that through my childhood
and then through school and thentrying to work with record
labels and just being turnedaway and told certain things.
(09:01):
And I was always the kind ofperson that I would just let
everything build up.
I would just take it and just belike, whatever, dude.
And I could blow it off inperson.
But then when I would go home,when I get alone, I would start
like, damn it, man.
What was it that person said?
Like, what is it about?
I'm not good enough for them.
Or why is it?
Are my parents arguing becauseof me?
(09:22):
Or Is this my fault or arethings my fault?
And I've always worried aboutstuff like that, you know, so
bad.
But I always kept it to myself.
And then finally, I just hit apoint where I couldn't do it
anymore.
You know, I just broke.
You can only bend so much andtake on so much weight until you
fall down.
(09:43):
And ultimately for me, I thinkit was I just carried so much
weight on me.
of things that I could never letgo of or things that I hadn't
really processed yet.
SPEAKER_03 (09:56):
You know, one thing you mentioned is being manic
depressive.
And a lot of people are familiarwith depression.
But the mania part, can youdescribe an incident or what it
feels like when you're goingthrough a manic period?
SPEAKER_02 (10:13):
If you ever look at a graph and you see the peaks
and you see the valleys, right?
So for me, it's weird.
Like I have days where I'mclimbing, right?
I'm climbing up and I'm slidingdown.
I'm climbing up and I'm slidingdown, right?
Kind of like the old guy on ThePrice is Right, the guy climbing
(10:34):
the avalanche or whatever.
Kind of like him.
I get it wrong and I slide backdown.
But then there are days where Ican't get footing and I can't
dig my fingers in enough.
I can't scream enough to make asnow move.
I can't do anything to get itgoing.
That's like the depression sidefor me.
(10:57):
Right.
The, uh, the other side of it issometimes I get on like such,
just like a, a good day, like onsuch a high of the day that I'm
just like, I'm so wide open thatI feel like I annoy the living
hell out of everybody.
Cause I'm like, Hey, let's dothis.
(11:17):
Let's do this.
I got to make an idea is I wantto do this.
And it, I'm in such a greatspace.
And then the next morning I wakeup and I'm like, I don't want to
do any of that.
And that is the real struggle.
And for me, that's the hardestthing to deal with is, is that
internal struggle of, because ofthe way my brain works, when
it's great, it's amazing.
(11:40):
And there's so many things thatI want to do and get done and I
can plan these things.
But then that next day, theswitch can flip and it's
completely different.
And I immediately regret everydecision I made the day before
to do something.
So that's, that's the other sideof it is even when I'm like on
(12:03):
top of the world, happy, there'sa worry in my mind that this is
great, but tomorrow I'm going tolike, not want to do what I said
I'd do two days from now, youknow?
And that's a weird place to be,but it's, I'm learning new ways
to process things every day.
You know?
I mean, that's, That's theultimate goal in life to me is
to figure out how to become theabsolute best version of me.
(12:24):
That way I can hopefully helpsomeone else do the same.
I just wish more people took itseriously.
That's why when I write myportion of the lyrics for the
band, it's something like pushdown and turn.
That came from a photograph Ihad taken.
Because I called the photo thecircle of life.
Because for me, that's what itis.
(12:45):
Every morning I wake up, I getthose bottles out and I take my
medication and I go on about myday.
And I literally did it.
You know what?
Screw it.
I'm going to post this and justsay a few words about mental
health.
And it like blew up on myInstagram.
And so many people reached outto me.
And then there was one comment,you should write a song about
this.
So we did.
(13:07):
We wrote Push Down and Turn.
And it's funny, like the chorussays, once by mouth, two times a
day, see you next month, sametime, same place.
About a month after we got outof the studio was when things
started not getting any betterin the world and things started
not getting any better upstairsfor me.
And that was when I called mydoctor and I ended up on a new
(13:28):
medication once by mouth, twotimes a day.
Funny thing for me, but I haveto find the humor in things like
that.
People would look like, damn, Ican't believe you have to do
that.
I'm like, it's funny to me.
Like I wrote a song and then ithappened.
Like, how can you not kind ofgiggle?
Somebody like me, when you'vebeen as dark as I have, you have
(13:49):
to find the humor in anythingthat you can, because all it
takes is one little thing andyou can go right back there in a
heartbeat.
SPEAKER_03 (13:58):
Speaking out about emotions like sadness and grief
and anger even, why do you thinkit's so difficult for men,
especially to put those intowords and to be able to express
that to not only a therapist,but also To someone close, like
a friend or a family member.
I
SPEAKER_02 (14:17):
think it's that fear of looking inferior.
Honestly, for me, that's what italways was.
Like my mentality, I was alwaysaround tough dudes.
Like my dad was a guy thatworked in lumber yards and my
grandpa, brick houses and housefoundations.
Like they were men who did manwork and they were the
foundation of the house.
(14:38):
When everything hit the fan,that's who everybody gathered
around.
And for me, I wanted to be thatso bad.
And truthfully, to some degrees,I am that.
But I will never be what was inmy mind for that.
Because to me, it was like, yougot to be Superman.
The fact of the matter is, evenSuperman has something that
(15:00):
affects him, right?
So nobody's bulletproof.
But I think it's just the fearof being looked at as
demasculated or as inferior.
Because I remember clearly, Iwas sitting on my couch and I
was rubbing my hair back andforth when I had hair.
And I was crying so hard assilently as I could because my
(15:23):
dad was there and I didn't wanthim to see me like that.
And just looking at him saying,I'm sorry, because I didn't want
him to see me like that.
And him and my wife both startedcrying and they're like, look,
it is okay, man.
We understand.
You're trying.
You've reached out.
You've got help.
It is okay.
And And once I finally heard mydaddy say, honey, it's okay, let
(15:45):
it out.
Like, that did something for me.
Because me, he is Superman.
You know, I mean, there's no twoways around it.
My old man is Superman.
He's Batman.
He's Superman.
He's Captain America.
He's all of them to me.
To hear that from someone that Iadmire so much, it was something
(16:09):
that really changed me.
SPEAKER_03 (16:11):
Well, he definitely is Superman.
I mean, the fact that his lovefor you has gone beyond any kind
of image of what it is to be aman.
And he's man enough to respectall parts of you, right?
All the emotions that are withinyou.
And he just wanted you to getbetter and to be happy.
(16:32):
And I think every parent that isthinking about their child first
is going to just want to seetheir children happy and to do
whatever they need to do to helpthem.
And that's why when we hearabout musicians that do end up
taking their own life, there'salways that thought like, if I
(16:53):
had only known, what could Ihave done?
Because it really gets us in theheart, right?
If there's Anybody that we careabout, even somebody who's a
stranger that loses their lifeat such a dark time.
In 2011, you did try to takeyour life, or you thought about
it very seriously, and youpulled back from it.
(17:14):
But you said there was somethingthat pulled you back from that.
Can you tell me what that was?
I've
SPEAKER_02 (17:21):
been laughed at.
I've been called everything, andI'll say it until the day I die.
I literally, God stopped me.
I said, no, this is nothappening.
And I turned back, went in myhouse, put the gun up, and I
just sat on my couch and cried.
For me, that was kind of adefining moment of me knowing,
(17:44):
okay, there is some kind ofhigher power.
Because it was literally likesomething just grabbed me and
said, no.
And I can't explain it.
Like I said, I've been made funof and everything.
and told I should have done itand a million different things.
And it really bothered me atfirst.
They mock me for believing inwhatever I believe in.
(18:05):
There's also 25, 30 people thatgo, thank you for speaking out
about this.
If I can keep anybody fromgetting there, then I can handle
anything anybody's got to say.
SPEAKER_03 (18:18):
Yeah, and I really applaud you for that because it
takes a lot of strength andbravery to be that honest.
Now, you mentioned beingmanic-depressive, and oftentimes
the symptoms can start inchildhood, early on.
Can you remember some of thefirst thoughts that you had that
(18:40):
pointed to a mental healthissue?
SPEAKER_02 (18:43):
Yeah, I was 10, 11 years old.
We lived out in the country.
I remember I would ask myparents if I could stay home
while they would go to town fora couple hours.
And I remember, and I don't knowwhy, and I still don't
understand.
I can't understand why at 10,11, 12 years old, I would look
(19:04):
up at a gun rack and go, Iwonder if I shot myself, if
anybody would notice.
Because I didn't get treatedbad.
I mean, my parents argued, butThey treated me good.
They treated my brother good, mysister good.
But I vividly remember sittingon the couch, looking up at that
(19:27):
.22 rifle and going, I wonder ifI did.
I just wonder if people wouldeven care.
SPEAKER_03 (19:32):
I'm glad you explained what it's like to be
in a depression because I thinkthat depression, the thoughts
can often lie to us.
Just like you looking at the gunand thinking these thoughts and
also taking blame for thingsthat weren't necessarily your
fault, but there's somethingabout the disorder that causes
(19:53):
you to think that way.
You also talked about anxiety.
Can you give us some examples ofsome of the anxious feelings
you've had and like examples ofwhat goes through your head when
you're anxious?
SPEAKER_02 (20:06):
So we used to go out to the merge booth every night
and we haven't done that since2011 or 12.
For anyone who's never had apanic attack, for me it's the
closest thing to drowning whilestanding on land I can imagine
right like you can't get yourbreath it's very disorienting
(20:31):
and I've had panic attacks sobad where I feel kind of hazy
but it's like a complete feelingof like you're drowning standing
on dry land but there's nothingyou can do and For me, it's just
a lot of times when I have areally bad one, I just need to
(20:51):
get somewhere really quiet andjust relax and remember to
breathe.
But they hit everyonedifferently because we all have
different fears.
For me, I'll start feelingreally, really overwhelmed.
And then I'll start gettingreally, really nervous on top of
(21:14):
that.
And then I know what's going tohappen.
And luckily, I have a medicationthat can really help those when
I feel one coming on.
It's essentially anantihistamine that just kind of
opens you up and allows me tobreathe a little bit better when
I feel one of those coming on.
But it also has an adverseeffect.
Some people have tried the samemedication I'm on and it
intensifies theirs.
(21:35):
But for me, it just allows me tobreathe and be able to just
focus again.
SPEAKER_03 (21:40):
You know, you mentioned something about
medication that I think isreally important that people
each medication will affect usin different ways, whether it's
side effects or efficacy.
Can you describe what yourjourney has been to find the
right medications for you?
I
SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
started on one medication and it seemed to
help, but all I could do wassleep.
And then I I had anothermedication that I had side
effects from, so I couldn't usethat.
And it didn't seem to help me atall anyway.
So it was just kind of a bust.
But, you know, with a lot ofmedications, it takes a week or
(22:18):
two for it to fully be in yoursystem and you got to give your
body time to acclimate to thosethings.
But ultimately, I think it wasthe third or fourth medication
we tried seemed to just helptake the edge off enough that
everything was bearable and Icould...
start to try to process how todeal with certain things.
(22:39):
And I've been on that medicationnow for several years.
And over the years, I'm up tothe maximum dose of that
medication.
That's why I now have anadditive with it.
I mean, the thing for me is I'vetried getting off medication.
I've tried doing anything Icould to not have to take
(23:00):
medicine.
And that just ain't in the cardsfor me.
Nothing I've been able to dohelps me as much as taking my
prescriptions.
The issues I have work for meanyways.
And I know there's a millionpeople that are like, no, you
can do other things.
And okay, yeah, anybody's ableto try that.
I did.
(23:20):
But for me, what worked wastaking tablets.
Like I have antidepressant slashanti-anxiety medication that I
take in the morning.
And then I also have my anxietymedication for if I feel like
I've got a panic attack comingon But I walk around with that,
and I don't mind.
It really doesn't take up thatmuch space in my pocket.
It's not a big deal.
(23:42):
Nobody else has to take it forme, so I don't know why anybody
would have a problem with it.
But so many people do.
They're like, oh, you shouldn'ttake medicine.
I'm like, well, you shouldn't bejudgmental.
SPEAKER_03 (23:54):
Very true.
What I find interesting is thatWe have medications out there
for depression, anxiety, andbipolar, and so many different
things that have been testedthat we know that for the long
term, they can be good for youand really improve your life.
But then there are other thingsthat people tend to grab that
(24:16):
aren't as healthy, but they seemto have no problem doing that.
SPEAKER_02 (24:19):
I've drank my problems away many times.
I got to a point where I wasdrinking about a bottle of about
a fifth of Jim Beam on stage atnight, dried straight out of the
bottle.
And yeah, it was because I liketo have a good time.
And at that point I was probably265 pounds and I was a big guy,
sweating my ass off.
(24:40):
So I could drink quite a bitwithout getting crazy.
I had a high tolerance, but alsoit was about 50% because I like
to have a good time and about50% because it helped me not
think about the stuff I didn'twant to think about.
And that's not healthy.
People say, well, takingprescriptions aren't healthy.
Well, I'm not on any narcotics.
(25:01):
I was able to get off all ofthose.
Nothing I take is highlyaddictive.
Everything I get, I can travelthe world with.
I have an antidepressant, ablood pressure medication that I
take, and a heartburn pill.
Literally, that's what I take.
You know what I mean?
For me, I would much rather dothat than...
(25:25):
I come from a family of a lot ofalcoholics on one side, and I
see what that does.
I know what addiction does to mybloodline.
Firsthand, I know what addictiondoes to my bloodline.
SPEAKER_03 (25:38):
What have you experienced with that, with your
family, and even with
SPEAKER_02 (25:42):
yourself?
For family members, I've gotseveral on one side of my family
that have had their struggleswith alcohol their whole life
and various drugs.
For me, the alcohol never got towhere I had to have it every
day.
I could literally go three orfour days.
I wouldn't drink at home, hardlyever.
(26:02):
When we'd get on the road andplay a show, I'd drink a bottle.
Just one of those things.
But my biggest problems I'veever had were I got really
addicted to Xanax when I firstwent through my breakdown and
then pain pills.
I got really, really bad onthose.
And thankfully, I was able toget off theirs.
I haven't had a pain pill inabout seven years, I guess, like
(26:31):
an actual narcotic.
And for me, that's a big asswin.
SPEAKER_03 (26:37):
No, that's huge.
It's huge.
You know, I used to be in thepharmaceutical industry and I
got to know aboutbenzodiazepines like Xanax and
having to get off ofpainkillers.
I mean, it is a huge mountainthat you've overcome.
SPEAKER_02 (26:55):
Ultimately, it's a situation where when that
addiction clicks in your headand you're like, I have to have
this.
Like I would literally get wokenup 10 minutes before a gig.
And I would roll over and grabthree or four Xanax out of a
bottle, pitch them in my mouthand chew them up, walking to the
stage.
Or I wouldn't play.
(27:15):
I felt if I didn't have myXanax, I couldn't go play the
show.
And anybody that's ever had totake anything like that knows
that they kind of zombify you alittle bit.
And here I was chewing three orfour up at a time and walking on
stage.
And then I don't remember twoyears of touring.
I just, I don't.
(27:35):
From 2011, Most of 2012, likeall of 2011 pretty much and 12
are just kind of a blur to me.
SPEAKER_03 (27:46):
Was there an incident that made you say, you
know what, I can't take thisanymore.
I do need to go and dosomething.
SPEAKER_02 (27:52):
It started for me.
I realized I had to quit all thepills.
We had been home and we had goneon the road and I was in England
and my wife called and said, howare you doing today?
And I was like, I'm all right.
You know, cause she knew I wasstruggling really bad.
And she said, well, are yousitting down?
(28:12):
And I was like, I can be, shesaid, I'm pregnant.
And I was immediately thrilledbecause I had something positive
in my life for a change.
Even though I was playing soldout concerts and I had all the
pills I could need.
Like I was miserable really.
And when she told me that, Isaid right then, I was like, all
(28:33):
right, I got to get off thisshit.
I cannot keep taking pills.
I've seen what it does tofamilies firsthand.
I cannot keep taking pills.
And I made myself, I weanedmyself off of them.
And I will never look back atthat stuff again.
My kid means too much to me totake another one of those.
SPEAKER_03 (28:57):
That's great.
I'm sure your life also changedafter you were off those
SPEAKER_01 (29:04):
pills.
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:05):
And I can only imagine things getting brighter.
SPEAKER_02 (29:08):
Don't get me wrong.
It was a pain in the ass lettingthem go because, to me, that was
a great thing.
But I also knew that, numberone, this will eventually kill
me.
And number two, which was moreimportant to me at the time than
killing me, was I'm going tolose the only thing I really
care about right now, which ismy wife.
(29:30):
And and our unborn child, if Ican't get this together.
She had never said that to me,but I completely felt that way
and felt that I had to dosomething.
SPEAKER_03 (29:42):
Well, I'm glad that that incident was a happy moment
and that it also helped toimprove your life in so many
different ways.
You know, there was somethingthat I read in an article and
there was a time when you saidyou hated playing music.
And that you needed to get highjust to get on stage and play.
What kind of led up to thosefeelings?
SPEAKER_02 (30:04):
That was just like the full blown midst of me
having a nervous breakdown.
I had gone to the doctor and Ihad explained everything.
I didn't want to be playingmusic at that time, not because
of being John Frederick John,but because of me personally and
because of all the The thingsthat we had had to go through to
(30:26):
try to please record labels overthe years, I was just over it.
I was done with it.
I never wanted to do it again.
And I was also eating a lot ofpills at that point.
And when you're zombified, youdon't want to do much of
anything, really.
But I can't imagine.
It's hard to take myself backand even imagine the thoughts in
(30:50):
my brain to not want to playmusic.
Because these days, that's a lotof what keeps me going is me and
my guitar.
I can't help it.
It's a part of who I am.
SPEAKER_03 (31:01):
Yeah.
And it brings so much joy toeveryone who listens to it as
well as you, right?
SPEAKER_02 (31:08):
You know, music is such an expressive outlet.
And it's the one time that Ifeel like I can say anything.
And the music is kind of ashield, really, especially with
a song like Push Down and Turn.
and When Angels Learn to Fly,because those are two songs that
are very, very close to me.
(31:29):
You can take every possession Iown, you can strip me of
everything to where I havenothing, but I still have my
emotions and I still have myperception and my feelings.
I think if we could all just getto a more human level where we
put emotion, feeling, and ourown perception of each other,
the way we want people to lookat us and treat us, Ever since I
(31:49):
went through my thing and Ifound God and I was out here
looking up at the stars out hereat our house one night, because
I live in the middle of nowhere,Kentucky.
You can look up just stars asfar as you can see.
And I realized in that momentthat you have to take life
seriously, but you can't take itso seriously that you forget to
live it.
And for me, you know, bad daysare bad days.
(32:12):
Good days are great days.
But the goal is to get it towhere the bad days are all right
days.
All right, it's a hell of a lotbetter than where I used to be.
And when you've got three dudesin a band where you are as tight
as we all are and have beentogether, you really feel like
you can let your guard downbecause they've got it for you
and say anything you want to.
(32:35):
And to me, that's just amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (32:40):
Well, I think anyone that you can be completely
honest and feel comfortablebeing who you really are is
going to feel good.
You've also talked about therapyin the past and what it's
brought to your life.
Can you tell us some of thebenefits that you've received
(33:00):
just going to therapy?
SPEAKER_02 (33:01):
I had a friend recently that was talking about
it and they were like, I justdon't know if I could talk to
somebody that I don't know.
And I said, just put this inyour Rolodex and think about it.
I said, if you tell me all yourissues, I've got a preconceived
notion because I know your lifeto where you go to a complete
(33:23):
stranger who is specialized instudying the human brain and the
way it works in correlation tohealth.
And they don't know your familyhistory about you and your dog.
They don't know about yourrelationship, your kids, your
wife, your husband.
They don't know all thesethings.
They are literally listening toa person they've never met.
(33:46):
Explain to them why, number one,they feel the way they do.
Because when you finally go,okay, I'm willing to go talk to
somebody I've never met in mylife about things inside my
head.
That's a huge step.
And I can commend anyone whotakes that because it's not
easy.
Even after my appointment wasbooked, I was so nervous about
(34:07):
it.
But I can also say that talkingwith the doctor that I talked
to, did just as much for me asabout anything on the planet,
because to talk to someone andhave them to go, okay, I
understand.
And I think I understand whysome of these things may be, you
know, happening.
(34:28):
We're going to try this, see ifwe can help.
And they don't judge you at all.
Like you don't have to worryabout, are they going to say
this?
Are they going to say that?
Number one patient, Dr.
Confidentiality forbids it.
And number two, Who gives a shitif he does go home or if he
looks at one of his friends andgoes, dude, that last guy, if I
(34:50):
went into the doctor and he didsomething that truly helped me
and he walked into one of hiscolleagues like, damn, that last
guy, man, but he did somethingthat helped me, I don't care.
Because at the end of the day,he still did his job.
And he did an act for me andlistened to me enough to help
(35:10):
me.
I don't care.
Like I said, dude, I've beenmade fun of by the world over 13
times.
There is nothing that anybody onthis planet can say that I
haven't thought that or worseabout myself at this point.
I'll be open and honest andoutspoken about mental health
and how people should pay moreattention until they put me in
(35:31):
the ground.
Because had someone said that,had I been able to turn on had
YouTube been a thing orInstagram or, or even podcasting
back then.
And I could have turned it onand saw people that I dug their
music talking about the thingsthat me and you were talking
about.
It would have changed my life.
(35:53):
So thank you for having me on totalk.
I sincerely appreciate that.
And, uh, I hope what I said madesense.
SPEAKER_03 (36:03):
It made perfect sense.
And Chris, thank you becauseyou're doing exactly that, which
is changing people's lives forour listeners and for
SPEAKER_02 (36:12):
your fans.
SPEAKER_03 (36:14):
And, you know, I love it.
I
SPEAKER_02 (36:17):
don't know that I've ever changed anybody's life, but
if hearing me talk about howcrazy I am, let somebody go,
maybe I should check in and getsome help, then it's all good.
SPEAKER_03 (36:28):
Well, thank you so much, Chris.
I
SPEAKER_02 (36:30):
really appreciate you being on the podcast.
I sincerely appreciate it.
No worries.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (36:36):
Next up, we have Carly Hester, a clinical social
worker and manager at NAMIPhiladelphia.
NAMI standing for the NationalAlliance on Mental Health.
Carly talks about the symptomsof bipolar, the correlation
between gut health and mentalhealth, and the mental health
resources you can find online atNAMI.org and at a local chapter
near you.
(36:57):
Hi, Carly.
You know, we just talked withChris Robertson of Blackstone
Cherry, and he describedsymptoms of bipolar disorder.
And I was wondering, can yougive us some basics on bipolar
and some of the symptoms to lookout for?
SPEAKER_00 (37:10):
Folks may know it otherwise as manic depression or
manic depressive disorder, butbipolar disorder is a very
serious mental illness.
And it is a disorder that ischaracterized by extreme changes
in mood So from mania todepression.
(37:30):
However, between those moodepisodes, a person living with
bipolar disorder, they willexperience or may experience
normal mood.
Okay.
How long do
SPEAKER_03 (37:41):
the shifts normally last?
I'm just kind of curious aboutthat.
SPEAKER_00 (37:44):
Yeah.
So with each individual, it canbe a different experience.
So there are two different typesof bipolar disorder.
There's bipolar 1.
And then there's bipolar two.
Bipolar one, that involvesepisodes of severe mania and
often depression as well.
(38:05):
And typically with bipolar one,these manic episodes last for at
least seven days.
And often manic episodes aremore severe.
They're longer.
They may even experiencepsychosis.
And oftentimes that individualneeds immediate crisis
(38:27):
intervention or immediatehospital care.
And the depression episodes forfolks living with bipolar one,
they can typically last at leasttwo weeks or longer.
But with bipolar two disorder,it involves less severe forms of
mania.
So the mania isn't lasting aslong.
It's not as severe.
(38:48):
There's no psychosis involved.
UNKNOWN (38:51):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (38:51):
It's also described as hypomania.
So it's a little less severethan those living with bipolar
one.
SPEAKER_03 (38:58):
Thank you so much for clarifying that.
You're welcome.
Because I myself am learningmore about bipolar.
And a lot of musicians arespeaking out now.
Demi Lovato is one that has beenspeaking out quite a bit.
We have Pete Wentz of Fall OutBoy.
We have Ray Davies of the Kinks.
Scott Stapp of Cree.
(39:20):
These are all musicians that arespeaking out, having signs and
behaviors of bipolar disorder.
So there's been more talk aboutthe correlation between gut
health and mental health.
I was wondering, what are yourthoughts on this?
SPEAKER_00 (39:36):
Yes, I think there's such a correlation between gut
health and mental health.
And it's because we havebeneficial bacteria within our
guts.
And when that is weakened orwhen there's damage within our
gut due to stress, the integrityof our gut lining can be
compromised.
(39:57):
And it makes us more susceptibleto exhaustion, deficiencies,
different forms of depressionand anxiety.
And actually, I read the vastmajority of serotonin, which is
like the happy stuff that's inour brain that makes us feel
good, is in our gut.
(40:17):
And that serotonin is producedthere and it travels through the
body to our brain.
And when our gut is compromised,our serotonin levels are less.
And there's not a lot ofserotonin to travel to our
brain.
So there is a big difference.
correlation between lack ofserotonin and depression and
anxiety and diagnoses that aresimilar to those.
(40:39):
Thank you so much for
SPEAKER_03 (40:41):
clarifying that because I think that's kind of
new information in general.
Yeah.
That we should all really beaware of our gut health and that
it could affect our entire body,not just our gut.
So if there are musicians thatare on tour or or anyone that is
starting to have signs ofbipolar, what are some of the
(41:03):
services that NAMI can provide?
SPEAKER_00 (41:05):
NAMI affiliates have helplines.
NAMI National has a helplinethat you can call into if you're
feeling signs of mental healthdistress or if you're feeling in
crisis, you can always call theNAMI helplines at your various
affiliate offices Or thehelpline for the National NAMI
(41:29):
line is 1-800-950-NAMI.
So that's pretty easy.
But most importantly, if you'reexperiencing crisis or feeling
suicidal or having feelings ofself-harm, you can always reach
out to the National SuicidePrevention Lifeline.
(41:50):
through phone or you can eventext now, which is great.
And I'll give you those numbershere as well.
So the National SuicidePrevention Hotline is
1-800-273-8255.
Or you can text the word NAMI,N-A-M-I, to 741741.
(42:13):
And you'll be connected to atrained crisis intervention
person on the other end of thephone.
That is so amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (42:24):
And I love the fact that now that there's texting.
SPEAKER_00 (42:27):
Yeah, it's wonderful.
We do a lot of work NAMI doeswith a program called Ending the
silence.
We go into schools and we talkto youth about mental health and
signs and symptoms and askingfor help and advocating.
And a lot of times young peopleare more interested in their
phone through texting.
(42:47):
And musicians alike, they'rebusy.
They're on the road.
They're going to and fromdifferent gigs and shows and
doing lots of things.
So they may not have anopportunity to sit down and have
a phone call, but texting mightbe an easier resource for them.
And texting can add
SPEAKER_03 (43:04):
some privacy.
It's confidential.
And it's just so much easier,especially if you're in a
crisis.
Everyone seems to have the phonein their hand.
And it may be easier for them totext versus talking.
SPEAKER_00 (43:16):
There is a lot of times there is a stigma, whether
it's within our families or ourfriend circle or our community,
saying I'm struggling or I'mhurting here.
I have a mental illness and Idon't know how to get help.
That's a scary thing for peoplebecause of that stigma, right?
That people think people withmental illness are weak or
they're scary or they're crazyand they're going to harm me or
(43:39):
themselves.
So folks hide in that hurt andthey don't often come forward
because of that shame.
So NAMI and Ending the Silencereally strives to crush that
stigma and to really haveconversations around getting
help and asking for help.
And that being an advocate isbeing a hero and that you could
(44:02):
save someone's life.
So if
SPEAKER_03 (44:05):
somebody asks for help, what is the response that
is the right way to respondwhere you can really help?
SPEAKER_00 (44:11):
Absolutely.
And I think in our Ending theSilence podcast, program and
just in general if someone asksfor help that's them being brave
and that is them coming forwardand saying i i am hurting and i
need help and i trust you tohelp me so we always say never
leave that person in the darknever leave them alone and to
(44:33):
take action immediately andalways Never think that someone
is joking or kidding or thatit's a phase or that they're
being dramatic.
We always want to take someoneasking for help seriously.
And it's also empowering to askthat person, what can I do to
help you?
What kind of help are youlooking for?
(44:54):
And to listen to that friend andto just be with them and sit
with them and just allow them tolean on you in a way that is
comfortable for them.
But to never, never give up onthem and to give them resources
as the lifeline number that Imentioned and the text line
(45:14):
number and just simply being afriend can really go far.
Yeah.
So NAMI.org is the website forour NAMI national office.
And on that website, you can getconnected to your local NAMI
affiliate that is in your cityor your county and You can also
get tons of information on therearound specific diagnoses and
(45:38):
advocacy opportunities andvarious classes and support
groups that your local affiliatemay offer.
There's also online classes thatyou can participate in.
For example, if you're a parentor a loved one of a young person
living with mental illness,There's a course called NAMI
Basics where you'll learn theins and outs of mental illness
(46:02):
and different symptoms andthings of that nature that your
young person in your life mightbe experiencing.
There's also support groups thatyou can find through your own
local affiliate.
So here in Philadelphia, weoperate support groups for
people living with mentalillness all throughout the
month.
And they're free.
(46:22):
All of NAMI's services are free,regardless of insurance,
regardless of socioeconomicstatus.
All of our services are free.
So if you're looking for asupport group, contact your
local NAMI office and say, hey,I'm someone living with mental
illness, and I was wondering ifyou had any support groups for
me.
(46:42):
There are also support groupsfor loved ones, for parents,
caregivers, partners, someoneliving with mental illness that
NAMI provides as well.
So we have tons and tons ofstuff.
Like I said, from support toadvocacy to education, NAMI is
here for you to love and supportwhat you're going through.
(47:03):
Oh,
SPEAKER_03 (47:04):
my gosh.
You guys are so amazing.
And let me tell you something.
The support groups...
When people are going throughwhatever mental health
challenge, they feel alone, eventhough they're surrounded by
people that love them.
And there's such a lack ofunderstanding.
So I know that when you go to asupport group and you hear other
(47:25):
people, it's a huge relief.
And it's just the beginning ofhealing.
And it's so important forfamilies to understand what's
going on, to get better insightso that they could help not only
their loved one, but alsothemselves.
Because it really affects
SPEAKER_00 (47:43):
everyone around them.
Mental illness, it's a familything.
It's not just affecting thatindividual that's living with
mental illness.
It's, in fact, affecting theircircles.
And we want to love and supporttheir circles as well.
Well, Carly, you are
SPEAKER_03 (48:00):
great.
Thank you.
You're great.
Every day, you
SPEAKER_00 (48:06):
all are making a difference.
We've seen it and we've lived itand we breathe it every day.
So it's really, it's a powerfulplace to be.
It's a powerful organization tobe a part of just to see people
thrive and live their best lifeand be true mental health
warriors.
Awesome.
(48:27):
You are my
SPEAKER_03 (48:29):
NAMI superhero.
SPEAKER_00 (48:30):
Oh, thank you.
Well, we are grateful.
A
SPEAKER_03 (48:33):
big thank you to Chris Robertson of Blackstone
Cherry and Carly Hester of NAMIPhiladelphia.
We'll be closing the episodewith Blackstone Cherry's single,
Again, so stay tuned for that.
For more information onBlackstone Cherry and to
purchase their album, The HumanCondition, visit
BlackstoneCherry.com and findthem on social media, at
(48:54):
Blackstone Cherry and atBlackstone Cherry Official.
For more information on NAMI andNAMI Philly, visit NAMI.org,
that's N-A-M-I dot org, and NAMIPhilly dot org.
So until next time, be brave,ask for help, and be persistent
in finding the mental healththat you need.
(52:47):
Check Your Head Podcast iskindly supported and partnered
with Sweet Relief MusiciansFund, DBSA San Gabriel Valley,
Earshot Media, and Lemon TreeStudios in Los Angeles.
Visit checkyourheadpodcast.comwhere we have over 100 solutions
for mental health.
Be our friends on social mediaat Check Your Head Podcast.
(53:07):
Watch us on YouTube and supportus with a kind donation on
checkyourheadpodcast.com.
Check Your Head podcast issponsored by a 501c3 nonprofit
with all donations being taxdeductible.
Thank you for your support andthank you for listening.
Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, the podcast
where notable musicians andexperts come and share their
stories and solutions for mentalhealth and wellness.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist and life coach
for musicians, and today I havesome exciting announcements.
First, the Check Your Headpodcast has partnered with Sweet
(00:22):
Relief Musicians Fund, a 501c3nonprofit that helps musicians
in need for the past 28 years.
Sweet Relief Musicians Fund hashelped a number of musicians and
their crew staff, especiallyduring the pandemic, and has
also established a mental healthfund.
So if you'd like to support withyour donation, visit
sweetrelief.org or visitcheckyourheadpodcast.com.
(00:46):
Second, the Check Your Headpodcast has a new YouTube
channel with video interviews ofCedar, Gilby Clark, and more.
So be sure to check out our newYouTube channel and please
subscribe.
Third, we have our featuredguest for today.
This band recently dropped theirseventh studio album called The
Human Condition and the liveversion of their single, Again,
(01:09):
just reached number 15 on AltRock Radio.
Our musical guest today is theawesome Chris Robertson, lead
singer and guitarist ofBlackstone Cherry, who shares a
story of bipolar disorder,anxiety, and panic attacks,
along with his solutions forrecovery.
Next, I interview a mentalhealth expert who shares more
(01:30):
about the symptoms of bipolar,our expert being Carly Hester
from NAMI Philadelphia, andwe'll also discuss the
connection between gut healthand mental health.
So let's begin with ChrisRobertson of Blackstone Cherry.
Well, today we have ChrisRobertson of Blackstone Cherry,
and you just released a newalbum called The Human
(01:51):
Condition, which is your seventhalbum.
So congratulations on that.
Thank
SPEAKER_02 (01:57):
you so much.
Yeah, I'm glad to be here.
SPEAKER_03 (02:00):
First of all, how are you surviving and thriving
during this pandemic?
SPEAKER_02 (02:05):
It's been weird.
I mean, I never would havethought ever in my lifetime that
I would have taken essentially ayear off at anyone's mercy but
my own.
I would have never thought thatI would have got told that you
really can't do what you doanymore.
And That was, at first, it waslike, oh, it'll open back up.
(02:28):
And then the longer that went onand the more things that got
canceled or postponed for anentire year, it starts to weigh
on you.
This year's been tough.
There's no two ways around it.
Not only, you know, everyone'sfinancially struggled, but the
bigger picture is how is thisaffecting people mentally?
Because I know for me, I am aperson who is manic depressive.
(02:52):
Clinically, I'm manic depressiveand I have severe anxiety.
So it's either really good orit's really bad.
And sometimes that side slips upon you.
But for me, this year has justbeen about trying to spend time
with family and really lookinginward more than anything.
And I mean, I had to get on anextra medication.
(03:12):
I've taken medication for 10years now, roughly almost, nine,
10 years.
I'm okay with that.
That's what I found that allowedme to wake up and actually
realize the world can bebeautiful and the people in it
can be as well.
I'm an entertainer.
That is what I was born to do.
It's the only thing I've everbeen really passionate about.
(03:35):
And then you've also got toworry about the virus.
And then you've got people in myfamily that don't have the
strongest immune systems,whether they're fighting cancer
or just old age or whatever.
So it's six million worries andone positive.
But for me, no matter how manyworries there are today, I try
to find the one positive andlike latch onto that thing with
(03:59):
everything I got and just try tofigure out a way to make that
the bigger picture of the day.
SPEAKER_03 (04:04):
Well, you know, you have the album, The Human
Condition, and it's got songslike Push Down and Turn that
have a bit of a mental healthmessage.
Is there a message that you'retrying to give out to your fans
with this album?
SPEAKER_02 (04:19):
I mean, essentially for me, it's okay to be a little
fucked up.
Just the hardest part for me wasever admitting that.
Right.
So the biggest thing for me wasgoing, I have a problem and I
need help because as, as a dude,I was raised like you can be the
tough one in the family.
(04:40):
You just, you kind of embraceeverything and take it on and
just take one for the team.
And yeah, For me, it was finallytrying to break that down and
go, okay, you need help.
You've got to do something aboutthis now.
But talking to someone, thefirst time I went and talked to
(05:04):
a doctor who specialized inmental health, it was the most
eye-opening experience of mylife because I had every
preconceived notion going intoit.
They hear the same thing everyday.
They hear this from so manypeople a day.
But the difference is, is whenyou talk to a doctor that
specializes in mental health,they haven't seen that story
(05:27):
every day.
They know that each person isdifferent and you can't treat
mental health like the flu or acommon cold because that's not
how it works.
And the other kind of damningthing about mental health is
It's the only illness you seemto have to prove to someone you
have before they will understandit or begin to accept it a lot
(05:49):
of times.
My dad finds out he has cancerand it's an immediate, oh man,
this is serious.
But when somebody says, I'vebeen going through some shit in
my head, man, it's common justto go, oh, you'll be all right,
man.
You'll brush it off.
I want to get to a place wherepeople can get the same amount
of attention and and respect thepeople that truly need the help.
(06:13):
My hope is that when someonesays, I need help, people's ears
perk up.
Instead of brushing it off,spark a discussion.
It's just about trying to helpbreak down that stigma about
mental health in general, andespecially men.
Just because we have a littledifferent biological makeup,
we're not allowed to do thesethings.
(06:33):
Push Down and Turn is a songthat is literally inward about
what I have to do day to day tounderstand myself and to keep
moving forward.
It's not easy.
Mental health is the weirdestthing in the world because I
have days where I'm the happiestdude on the planet.
(06:53):
And then I have days where nomatter what the circumstances
are, it's just impossible for meto get going.
And those are the days that arehard because for somebody like
me, I know when I am and whenI'm not the best version of
myself.
And I feel like when I'm not thebest version of myself, that
(07:16):
anything I do is not going to begood enough.
Perfect example of that isyesterday.
I was literally so busy tryingto get caught up around home and
I was very frustrated.
And I knew that I could not dothis to the best of my ability,
but it just, it gets back tothat constant battle up here of,
(07:39):
good enough or not, like bad orgood, good enough or not.
Today, I woke up in a prettygood mood and I was like, I'm
going to have a good day.
I've really been on this thing.
Like if you believe somethingenough, you can make that a
reality.
When something as simple assaying, I'm going to have a good
day today.
If you make yourself believeyou're going to have a good day,
you're going to have a good day.
SPEAKER_03 (08:00):
The thoughts in our head do sort of affect our
behavior, affect how we seethings.
And sometimes those positiveremarks are really going to
help.
But then there are times when nomatter how much we try to change
our thoughts, we still are inthis depression, or we still are
(08:21):
in the state of anxiety.
And I know in 2011, things kindof came to a head for you.
The suicidal thoughts, turnedinto a possible suicidal action.
So can you tell me some of thefeelings and some of the events
that led up to that time?
I
SPEAKER_02 (08:39):
think it was just letting things build up over the
course of, let's see, I wouldhave been 26, getting ready to
be 27.
And I think a lot of it was juststuff that through my childhood
and then through school and thentrying to work with record
labels and just being turnedaway and told certain things.
(09:01):
And I was always the kind ofperson that I would just let
everything build up.
I would just take it and just belike, whatever, dude.
And I could blow it off inperson.
But then when I would go home,when I get alone, I would start
like, damn it, man.
What was it that person said?
Like, what is it about?
I'm not good enough for them.
Or why is it?
Are my parents arguing becauseof me?
(09:22):
Or Is this my fault or arethings my fault?
And I've always worried aboutstuff like that, you know, so
bad.
But I always kept it to myself.
And then finally, I just hit apoint where I couldn't do it
anymore.
You know, I just broke.
You can only bend so much andtake on so much weight until you
fall down.
(09:43):
And ultimately for me, I thinkit was I just carried so much
weight on me.
of things that I could never letgo of or things that I hadn't
really processed yet.
SPEAKER_03 (09:56):
You know, one thing you mentioned is being manic
depressive.
And a lot of people are familiarwith depression.
But the mania part, can youdescribe an incident or what it
feels like when you're goingthrough a manic period?
SPEAKER_02 (10:13):
If you ever look at a graph and you see the peaks
and you see the valleys, right?
So for me, it's weird.
Like I have days where I'mclimbing, right?
I'm climbing up and I'm slidingdown.
I'm climbing up and I'm slidingdown, right?
Kind of like the old guy on ThePrice is Right, the guy climbing
(10:34):
the avalanche or whatever.
Kind of like him.
I get it wrong and I slide backdown.
But then there are days where Ican't get footing and I can't
dig my fingers in enough.
I can't scream enough to make asnow move.
I can't do anything to get itgoing.
That's like the depression sidefor me.
(10:57):
Right.
The, uh, the other side of it issometimes I get on like such,
just like a, a good day, like onsuch a high of the day that I'm
just like, I'm so wide open thatI feel like I annoy the living
hell out of everybody.
Cause I'm like, Hey, let's dothis.
(11:17):
Let's do this.
I got to make an idea is I wantto do this.
And it, I'm in such a greatspace.
And then the next morning I wakeup and I'm like, I don't want to
do any of that.
And that is the real struggle.
And for me, that's the hardestthing to deal with is, is that
internal struggle of, because ofthe way my brain works, when
it's great, it's amazing.
(11:40):
And there's so many things thatI want to do and get done and I
can plan these things.
But then that next day, theswitch can flip and it's
completely different.
And I immediately regret everydecision I made the day before
to do something.
So that's, that's the other sideof it is even when I'm like on
(12:03):
top of the world, happy, there'sa worry in my mind that this is
great, but tomorrow I'm going tolike, not want to do what I said
I'd do two days from now, youknow?
And that's a weird place to be,but it's, I'm learning new ways
to process things every day.
You know?
I mean, that's, That's theultimate goal in life to me is
to figure out how to become theabsolute best version of me.
(12:24):
That way I can hopefully helpsomeone else do the same.
I just wish more people took itseriously.
That's why when I write myportion of the lyrics for the
band, it's something like pushdown and turn.
That came from a photograph Ihad taken.
Because I called the photo thecircle of life.
Because for me, that's what itis.
(12:45):
Every morning I wake up, I getthose bottles out and I take my
medication and I go on about myday.
And I literally did it.
You know what?
Screw it.
I'm going to post this and justsay a few words about mental
health.
And it like blew up on myInstagram.
And so many people reached outto me.
And then there was one comment,you should write a song about
this.
So we did.
(13:07):
We wrote Push Down and Turn.
And it's funny, like the chorussays, once by mouth, two times a
day, see you next month, sametime, same place.
About a month after we got outof the studio was when things
started not getting any betterin the world and things started
not getting any better upstairsfor me.
And that was when I called mydoctor and I ended up on a new
(13:28):
medication once by mouth, twotimes a day.
Funny thing for me, but I haveto find the humor in things like
that.
People would look like, damn, Ican't believe you have to do
that.
I'm like, it's funny to me.
Like I wrote a song and then ithappened.
Like, how can you not kind ofgiggle?
Somebody like me, when you'vebeen as dark as I have, you have
(13:49):
to find the humor in anythingthat you can, because all it
takes is one little thing andyou can go right back there in a
heartbeat.
SPEAKER_03 (13:58):
Speaking out about emotions like sadness and grief
and anger even, why do you thinkit's so difficult for men,
especially to put those intowords and to be able to express
that to not only a therapist,but also To someone close, like
a friend or a family member.
I
SPEAKER_02 (14:17):
think it's that fear of looking inferior.
Honestly, for me, that's what italways was.
Like my mentality, I was alwaysaround tough dudes.
Like my dad was a guy thatworked in lumber yards and my
grandpa, brick houses and housefoundations.
Like they were men who did manwork and they were the
foundation of the house.
(14:38):
When everything hit the fan,that's who everybody gathered
around.
And for me, I wanted to be thatso bad.
And truthfully, to some degrees,I am that.
But I will never be what was inmy mind for that.
Because to me, it was like, yougot to be Superman.
The fact of the matter is, evenSuperman has something that
(15:00):
affects him, right?
So nobody's bulletproof.
But I think it's just the fearof being looked at as
demasculated or as inferior.
Because I remember clearly, Iwas sitting on my couch and I
was rubbing my hair back andforth when I had hair.
And I was crying so hard assilently as I could because my
(15:23):
dad was there and I didn't wanthim to see me like that.
And just looking at him saying,I'm sorry, because I didn't want
him to see me like that.
And him and my wife both startedcrying and they're like, look,
it is okay, man.
We understand.
You're trying.
You've reached out.
You've got help.
It is okay.
And And once I finally heard mydaddy say, honey, it's okay, let
(15:45):
it out.
Like, that did something for me.
Because me, he is Superman.
You know, I mean, there's no twoways around it.
My old man is Superman.
He's Batman.
He's Superman.
He's Captain America.
He's all of them to me.
To hear that from someone that Iadmire so much, it was something
(16:09):
that really changed me.
SPEAKER_03 (16:11):
Well, he definitely is Superman.
I mean, the fact that his lovefor you has gone beyond any kind
of image of what it is to be aman.
And he's man enough to respectall parts of you, right?
All the emotions that are withinyou.
And he just wanted you to getbetter and to be happy.
(16:32):
And I think every parent that isthinking about their child first
is going to just want to seetheir children happy and to do
whatever they need to do to helpthem.
And that's why when we hearabout musicians that do end up
taking their own life, there'salways that thought like, if I
(16:53):
had only known, what could Ihave done?
Because it really gets us in theheart, right?
If there's Anybody that we careabout, even somebody who's a
stranger that loses their lifeat such a dark time.
In 2011, you did try to takeyour life, or you thought about
it very seriously, and youpulled back from it.
(17:14):
But you said there was somethingthat pulled you back from that.
Can you tell me what that was?
I've
SPEAKER_02 (17:21):
been laughed at.
I've been called everything, andI'll say it until the day I die.
I literally, God stopped me.
I said, no, this is nothappening.
And I turned back, went in myhouse, put the gun up, and I
just sat on my couch and cried.
For me, that was kind of adefining moment of me knowing,
(17:44):
okay, there is some kind ofhigher power.
Because it was literally likesomething just grabbed me and
said, no.
And I can't explain it.
Like I said, I've been made funof and everything.
and told I should have done itand a million different things.
And it really bothered me atfirst.
They mock me for believing inwhatever I believe in.
(18:05):
There's also 25, 30 people thatgo, thank you for speaking out
about this.
If I can keep anybody fromgetting there, then I can handle
anything anybody's got to say.
SPEAKER_03 (18:18):
Yeah, and I really applaud you for that because it
takes a lot of strength andbravery to be that honest.
Now, you mentioned beingmanic-depressive, and oftentimes
the symptoms can start inchildhood, early on.
Can you remember some of thefirst thoughts that you had that
(18:40):
pointed to a mental healthissue?
SPEAKER_02 (18:43):
Yeah, I was 10, 11 years old.
We lived out in the country.
I remember I would ask myparents if I could stay home
while they would go to town fora couple hours.
And I remember, and I don't knowwhy, and I still don't
understand.
I can't understand why at 10,11, 12 years old, I would look
(19:04):
up at a gun rack and go, Iwonder if I shot myself, if
anybody would notice.
Because I didn't get treatedbad.
I mean, my parents argued, butThey treated me good.
They treated my brother good, mysister good.
But I vividly remember sittingon the couch, looking up at that
(19:27):
.22 rifle and going, I wonder ifI did.
I just wonder if people wouldeven care.
SPEAKER_03 (19:32):
I'm glad you explained what it's like to be
in a depression because I thinkthat depression, the thoughts
can often lie to us.
Just like you looking at the gunand thinking these thoughts and
also taking blame for thingsthat weren't necessarily your
fault, but there's somethingabout the disorder that causes
(19:53):
you to think that way.
You also talked about anxiety.
Can you give us some examples ofsome of the anxious feelings
you've had and like examples ofwhat goes through your head when
you're anxious?
SPEAKER_02 (20:06):
So we used to go out to the merge booth every night
and we haven't done that since2011 or 12.
For anyone who's never had apanic attack, for me it's the
closest thing to drowning whilestanding on land I can imagine
right like you can't get yourbreath it's very disorienting
(20:31):
and I've had panic attacks sobad where I feel kind of hazy
but it's like a complete feelingof like you're drowning standing
on dry land but there's nothingyou can do and For me, it's just
a lot of times when I have areally bad one, I just need to
(20:51):
get somewhere really quiet andjust relax and remember to
breathe.
But they hit everyonedifferently because we all have
different fears.
For me, I'll start feelingreally, really overwhelmed.
And then I'll start gettingreally, really nervous on top of
(21:14):
that.
And then I know what's going tohappen.
And luckily, I have a medicationthat can really help those when
I feel one coming on.
It's essentially anantihistamine that just kind of
opens you up and allows me tobreathe a little bit better when
I feel one of those coming on.
But it also has an adverseeffect.
Some people have tried the samemedication I'm on and it
intensifies theirs.
(21:35):
But for me, it just allows me tobreathe and be able to just
focus again.
SPEAKER_03 (21:40):
You know, you mentioned something about
medication that I think isreally important that people
each medication will affect usin different ways, whether it's
side effects or efficacy.
Can you describe what yourjourney has been to find the
right medications for you?
I
SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
started on one medication and it seemed to
help, but all I could do wassleep.
And then I I had anothermedication that I had side
effects from, so I couldn't usethat.
And it didn't seem to help me atall anyway.
So it was just kind of a bust.
But, you know, with a lot ofmedications, it takes a week or
(22:18):
two for it to fully be in yoursystem and you got to give your
body time to acclimate to thosethings.
But ultimately, I think it wasthe third or fourth medication
we tried seemed to just helptake the edge off enough that
everything was bearable and Icould...
start to try to process how todeal with certain things.
(22:39):
And I've been on that medicationnow for several years.
And over the years, I'm up tothe maximum dose of that
medication.
That's why I now have anadditive with it.
I mean, the thing for me is I'vetried getting off medication.
I've tried doing anything Icould to not have to take
(23:00):
medicine.
And that just ain't in the cardsfor me.
Nothing I've been able to dohelps me as much as taking my
prescriptions.
The issues I have work for meanyways.
And I know there's a millionpeople that are like, no, you
can do other things.
And okay, yeah, anybody's ableto try that.
I did.
(23:20):
But for me, what worked wastaking tablets.
Like I have antidepressant slashanti-anxiety medication that I
take in the morning.
And then I also have my anxietymedication for if I feel like
I've got a panic attack comingon But I walk around with that,
and I don't mind.
It really doesn't take up thatmuch space in my pocket.
It's not a big deal.
(23:42):
Nobody else has to take it forme, so I don't know why anybody
would have a problem with it.
But so many people do.
They're like, oh, you shouldn'ttake medicine.
I'm like, well, you shouldn't bejudgmental.
SPEAKER_03 (23:54):
Very true.
What I find interesting is thatWe have medications out there
for depression, anxiety, andbipolar, and so many different
things that have been testedthat we know that for the long
term, they can be good for youand really improve your life.
But then there are other thingsthat people tend to grab that
(24:16):
aren't as healthy, but they seemto have no problem doing that.
SPEAKER_02 (24:19):
I've drank my problems away many times.
I got to a point where I wasdrinking about a bottle of about
a fifth of Jim Beam on stage atnight, dried straight out of the
bottle.
And yeah, it was because I liketo have a good time.
And at that point I was probably265 pounds and I was a big guy,
sweating my ass off.
(24:40):
So I could drink quite a bitwithout getting crazy.
I had a high tolerance, but alsoit was about 50% because I like
to have a good time and about50% because it helped me not
think about the stuff I didn'twant to think about.
And that's not healthy.
People say, well, takingprescriptions aren't healthy.
Well, I'm not on any narcotics.
(25:01):
I was able to get off all ofthose.
Nothing I take is highlyaddictive.
Everything I get, I can travelthe world with.
I have an antidepressant, ablood pressure medication that I
take, and a heartburn pill.
Literally, that's what I take.
You know what I mean?
For me, I would much rather dothat than...
(25:25):
I come from a family of a lot ofalcoholics on one side, and I
see what that does.
I know what addiction does to mybloodline.
Firsthand, I know what addictiondoes to my bloodline.
SPEAKER_03 (25:38):
What have you experienced with that, with your
family, and even with
SPEAKER_02 (25:42):
yourself?
For family members, I've gotseveral on one side of my family
that have had their struggleswith alcohol their whole life
and various drugs.
For me, the alcohol never got towhere I had to have it every
day.
I could literally go three orfour days.
I wouldn't drink at home, hardlyever.
(26:02):
When we'd get on the road andplay a show, I'd drink a bottle.
Just one of those things.
But my biggest problems I'veever had were I got really
addicted to Xanax when I firstwent through my breakdown and
then pain pills.
I got really, really bad onthose.
And thankfully, I was able toget off theirs.
I haven't had a pain pill inabout seven years, I guess, like
(26:31):
an actual narcotic.
And for me, that's a big asswin.
SPEAKER_03 (26:37):
No, that's huge.
It's huge.
You know, I used to be in thepharmaceutical industry and I
got to know aboutbenzodiazepines like Xanax and
having to get off ofpainkillers.
I mean, it is a huge mountainthat you've overcome.
SPEAKER_02 (26:55):
Ultimately, it's a situation where when that
addiction clicks in your headand you're like, I have to have
this.
Like I would literally get wokenup 10 minutes before a gig.
And I would roll over and grabthree or four Xanax out of a
bottle, pitch them in my mouthand chew them up, walking to the
stage.
Or I wouldn't play.
(27:15):
I felt if I didn't have myXanax, I couldn't go play the
show.
And anybody that's ever had totake anything like that knows
that they kind of zombify you alittle bit.
And here I was chewing three orfour up at a time and walking on
stage.
And then I don't remember twoyears of touring.
I just, I don't.
(27:35):
From 2011, Most of 2012, likeall of 2011 pretty much and 12
are just kind of a blur to me.
SPEAKER_03 (27:46):
Was there an incident that made you say, you
know what, I can't take thisanymore.
I do need to go and dosomething.
SPEAKER_02 (27:52):
It started for me.
I realized I had to quit all thepills.
We had been home and we had goneon the road and I was in England
and my wife called and said, howare you doing today?
And I was like, I'm all right.
You know, cause she knew I wasstruggling really bad.
And she said, well, are yousitting down?
(28:12):
And I was like, I can be, shesaid, I'm pregnant.
And I was immediately thrilledbecause I had something positive
in my life for a change.
Even though I was playing soldout concerts and I had all the
pills I could need.
Like I was miserable really.
And when she told me that, Isaid right then, I was like, all
(28:33):
right, I got to get off thisshit.
I cannot keep taking pills.
I've seen what it does tofamilies firsthand.
I cannot keep taking pills.
And I made myself, I weanedmyself off of them.
And I will never look back atthat stuff again.
My kid means too much to me totake another one of those.
SPEAKER_03 (28:57):
That's great.
I'm sure your life also changedafter you were off those
SPEAKER_01 (29:04):
pills.
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:05):
And I can only imagine things getting brighter.
SPEAKER_02 (29:08):
Don't get me wrong.
It was a pain in the ass lettingthem go because, to me, that was
a great thing.
But I also knew that, numberone, this will eventually kill
me.
And number two, which was moreimportant to me at the time than
killing me, was I'm going tolose the only thing I really
care about right now, which ismy wife.
(29:30):
And and our unborn child, if Ican't get this together.
She had never said that to me,but I completely felt that way
and felt that I had to dosomething.
SPEAKER_03 (29:42):
Well, I'm glad that that incident was a happy moment
and that it also helped toimprove your life in so many
different ways.
You know, there was somethingthat I read in an article and
there was a time when you saidyou hated playing music.
And that you needed to get highjust to get on stage and play.
What kind of led up to thosefeelings?
SPEAKER_02 (30:04):
That was just like the full blown midst of me
having a nervous breakdown.
I had gone to the doctor and Ihad explained everything.
I didn't want to be playingmusic at that time, not because
of being John Frederick John,but because of me personally and
because of all the The thingsthat we had had to go through to
(30:26):
try to please record labels overthe years, I was just over it.
I was done with it.
I never wanted to do it again.
And I was also eating a lot ofpills at that point.
And when you're zombified, youdon't want to do much of
anything, really.
But I can't imagine.
It's hard to take myself backand even imagine the thoughts in
(30:50):
my brain to not want to playmusic.
Because these days, that's a lotof what keeps me going is me and
my guitar.
I can't help it.
It's a part of who I am.
SPEAKER_03 (31:01):
Yeah.
And it brings so much joy toeveryone who listens to it as
well as you, right?
SPEAKER_02 (31:08):
You know, music is such an expressive outlet.
And it's the one time that Ifeel like I can say anything.
And the music is kind of ashield, really, especially with
a song like Push Down and Turn.
and When Angels Learn to Fly,because those are two songs that
are very, very close to me.
(31:29):
You can take every possession Iown, you can strip me of
everything to where I havenothing, but I still have my
emotions and I still have myperception and my feelings.
I think if we could all just getto a more human level where we
put emotion, feeling, and ourown perception of each other,
the way we want people to lookat us and treat us, Ever since I
(31:49):
went through my thing and Ifound God and I was out here
looking up at the stars out hereat our house one night, because
I live in the middle of nowhere,Kentucky.
You can look up just stars asfar as you can see.
And I realized in that momentthat you have to take life
seriously, but you can't take itso seriously that you forget to
live it.
And for me, you know, bad daysare bad days.
(32:12):
Good days are great days.
But the goal is to get it towhere the bad days are all right
days.
All right, it's a hell of a lotbetter than where I used to be.
And when you've got three dudesin a band where you are as tight
as we all are and have beentogether, you really feel like
you can let your guard downbecause they've got it for you
and say anything you want to.
(32:35):
And to me, that's just amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (32:40):
Well, I think anyone that you can be completely
honest and feel comfortablebeing who you really are is
going to feel good.
You've also talked about therapyin the past and what it's
brought to your life.
Can you tell us some of thebenefits that you've received
(33:00):
just going to therapy?
SPEAKER_02 (33:01):
I had a friend recently that was talking about
it and they were like, I justdon't know if I could talk to
somebody that I don't know.
And I said, just put this inyour Rolodex and think about it.
I said, if you tell me all yourissues, I've got a preconceived
notion because I know your lifeto where you go to a complete
(33:23):
stranger who is specialized instudying the human brain and the
way it works in correlation tohealth.
And they don't know your familyhistory about you and your dog.
They don't know about yourrelationship, your kids, your
wife, your husband.
They don't know all thesethings.
They are literally listening toa person they've never met.
(33:46):
Explain to them why, number one,they feel the way they do.
Because when you finally go,okay, I'm willing to go talk to
somebody I've never met in mylife about things inside my
head.
That's a huge step.
And I can commend anyone whotakes that because it's not
easy.
Even after my appointment wasbooked, I was so nervous about
(34:07):
it.
But I can also say that talkingwith the doctor that I talked
to, did just as much for me asabout anything on the planet,
because to talk to someone andhave them to go, okay, I
understand.
And I think I understand whysome of these things may be, you
know, happening.
(34:28):
We're going to try this, see ifwe can help.
And they don't judge you at all.
Like you don't have to worryabout, are they going to say
this?
Are they going to say that?
Number one patient, Dr.
Confidentiality forbids it.
And number two, Who gives a shitif he does go home or if he
looks at one of his friends andgoes, dude, that last guy, if I
(34:50):
went into the doctor and he didsomething that truly helped me
and he walked into one of hiscolleagues like, damn, that last
guy, man, but he did somethingthat helped me, I don't care.
Because at the end of the day,he still did his job.
And he did an act for me andlistened to me enough to help
(35:10):
me.
I don't care.
Like I said, dude, I've beenmade fun of by the world over 13
times.
There is nothing that anybody onthis planet can say that I
haven't thought that or worseabout myself at this point.
I'll be open and honest andoutspoken about mental health
and how people should pay moreattention until they put me in
(35:31):
the ground.
Because had someone said that,had I been able to turn on had
YouTube been a thing orInstagram or, or even podcasting
back then.
And I could have turned it onand saw people that I dug their
music talking about the thingsthat me and you were talking
about.
It would have changed my life.
(35:53):
So thank you for having me on totalk.
I sincerely appreciate that.
And, uh, I hope what I said madesense.
SPEAKER_03 (36:03):
It made perfect sense.
And Chris, thank you becauseyou're doing exactly that, which
is changing people's lives forour listeners and for
SPEAKER_02 (36:12):
your fans.
SPEAKER_03 (36:14):
And, you know, I love it.
I
SPEAKER_02 (36:17):
don't know that I've ever changed anybody's life, but
if hearing me talk about howcrazy I am, let somebody go,
maybe I should check in and getsome help, then it's all good.
SPEAKER_03 (36:28):
Well, thank you so much, Chris.
I
SPEAKER_02 (36:30):
really appreciate you being on the podcast.
I sincerely appreciate it.
No worries.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (36:36):
Next up, we have Carly Hester, a clinical social
worker and manager at NAMIPhiladelphia.
NAMI standing for the NationalAlliance on Mental Health.
Carly talks about the symptomsof bipolar, the correlation
between gut health and mentalhealth, and the mental health
resources you can find online atNAMI.org and at a local chapter
near you.
(36:57):
Hi, Carly.
You know, we just talked withChris Robertson of Blackstone
Cherry, and he describedsymptoms of bipolar disorder.
And I was wondering, can yougive us some basics on bipolar
and some of the symptoms to lookout for?
SPEAKER_00 (37:10):
Folks may know it otherwise as manic depression or
manic depressive disorder, butbipolar disorder is a very
serious mental illness.
And it is a disorder that ischaracterized by extreme changes
in mood So from mania todepression.
(37:30):
However, between those moodepisodes, a person living with
bipolar disorder, they willexperience or may experience
normal mood.
Okay.
How long do
SPEAKER_03 (37:41):
the shifts normally last?
I'm just kind of curious aboutthat.
SPEAKER_00 (37:44):
Yeah.
So with each individual, it canbe a different experience.
So there are two different typesof bipolar disorder.
There's bipolar 1.
And then there's bipolar two.
Bipolar one, that involvesepisodes of severe mania and
often depression as well.
(38:05):
And typically with bipolar one,these manic episodes last for at
least seven days.
And often manic episodes aremore severe.
They're longer.
They may even experiencepsychosis.
And oftentimes that individualneeds immediate crisis
(38:27):
intervention or immediatehospital care.
And the depression episodes forfolks living with bipolar one,
they can typically last at leasttwo weeks or longer.
But with bipolar two disorder,it involves less severe forms of
mania.
So the mania isn't lasting aslong.
It's not as severe.
(38:48):
There's no psychosis involved.
UNKNOWN (38:51):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (38:51):
It's also described as hypomania.
So it's a little less severethan those living with bipolar
one.
SPEAKER_03 (38:58):
Thank you so much for clarifying that.
You're welcome.
Because I myself am learningmore about bipolar.
And a lot of musicians arespeaking out now.
Demi Lovato is one that has beenspeaking out quite a bit.
We have Pete Wentz of Fall OutBoy.
We have Ray Davies of the Kinks.
Scott Stapp of Cree.
(39:20):
These are all musicians that arespeaking out, having signs and
behaviors of bipolar disorder.
So there's been more talk aboutthe correlation between gut
health and mental health.
I was wondering, what are yourthoughts on this?
SPEAKER_00 (39:36):
Yes, I think there's such a correlation between gut
health and mental health.
And it's because we havebeneficial bacteria within our
guts.
And when that is weakened orwhen there's damage within our
gut due to stress, the integrityof our gut lining can be
compromised.
(39:57):
And it makes us more susceptibleto exhaustion, deficiencies,
different forms of depressionand anxiety.
And actually, I read the vastmajority of serotonin, which is
like the happy stuff that's inour brain that makes us feel
good, is in our gut.
(40:17):
And that serotonin is producedthere and it travels through the
body to our brain.
And when our gut is compromised,our serotonin levels are less.
And there's not a lot ofserotonin to travel to our
brain.
So there is a big difference.
correlation between lack ofserotonin and depression and
anxiety and diagnoses that aresimilar to those.
(40:39):
Thank you so much for
SPEAKER_03 (40:41):
clarifying that because I think that's kind of
new information in general.
Yeah.
That we should all really beaware of our gut health and that
it could affect our entire body,not just our gut.
So if there are musicians thatare on tour or or anyone that is
starting to have signs ofbipolar, what are some of the
(41:03):
services that NAMI can provide?
SPEAKER_00 (41:05):
NAMI affiliates have helplines.
NAMI National has a helplinethat you can call into if you're
feeling signs of mental healthdistress or if you're feeling in
crisis, you can always call theNAMI helplines at your various
affiliate offices Or thehelpline for the National NAMI
(41:29):
line is 1-800-950-NAMI.
So that's pretty easy.
But most importantly, if you'reexperiencing crisis or feeling
suicidal or having feelings ofself-harm, you can always reach
out to the National SuicidePrevention Lifeline.
(41:50):
through phone or you can eventext now, which is great.
And I'll give you those numbershere as well.
So the National SuicidePrevention Hotline is
1-800-273-8255.
Or you can text the word NAMI,N-A-M-I, to 741741.
(42:13):
And you'll be connected to atrained crisis intervention
person on the other end of thephone.
That is so amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (42:24):
And I love the fact that now that there's texting.
SPEAKER_00 (42:27):
Yeah, it's wonderful.
We do a lot of work NAMI doeswith a program called Ending the
silence.
We go into schools and we talkto youth about mental health and
signs and symptoms and askingfor help and advocating.
And a lot of times young peopleare more interested in their
phone through texting.
(42:47):
And musicians alike, they'rebusy.
They're on the road.
They're going to and fromdifferent gigs and shows and
doing lots of things.
So they may not have anopportunity to sit down and have
a phone call, but texting mightbe an easier resource for them.
And texting can add
SPEAKER_03 (43:04):
some privacy.
It's confidential.
And it's just so much easier,especially if you're in a
crisis.
Everyone seems to have the phonein their hand.
And it may be easier for them totext versus talking.
SPEAKER_00 (43:16):
There is a lot of times there is a stigma, whether
it's within our families or ourfriend circle or our community,
saying I'm struggling or I'mhurting here.
I have a mental illness and Idon't know how to get help.
That's a scary thing for peoplebecause of that stigma, right?
That people think people withmental illness are weak or
they're scary or they're crazyand they're going to harm me or
(43:39):
themselves.
So folks hide in that hurt andthey don't often come forward
because of that shame.
So NAMI and Ending the Silencereally strives to crush that
stigma and to really haveconversations around getting
help and asking for help.
And that being an advocate isbeing a hero and that you could
(44:02):
save someone's life.
So if
SPEAKER_03 (44:05):
somebody asks for help, what is the response that
is the right way to respondwhere you can really help?
SPEAKER_00 (44:11):
Absolutely.
And I think in our Ending theSilence podcast, program and
just in general if someone asksfor help that's them being brave
and that is them coming forwardand saying i i am hurting and i
need help and i trust you tohelp me so we always say never
leave that person in the darknever leave them alone and to
(44:33):
take action immediately andalways Never think that someone
is joking or kidding or thatit's a phase or that they're
being dramatic.
We always want to take someoneasking for help seriously.
And it's also empowering to askthat person, what can I do to
help you?
What kind of help are youlooking for?
(44:54):
And to listen to that friend andto just be with them and sit
with them and just allow them tolean on you in a way that is
comfortable for them.
But to never, never give up onthem and to give them resources
as the lifeline number that Imentioned and the text line
(45:14):
number and just simply being afriend can really go far.
Yeah.
So NAMI.org is the website forour NAMI national office.
And on that website, you can getconnected to your local NAMI
affiliate that is in your cityor your county and You can also
get tons of information on therearound specific diagnoses and
(45:38):
advocacy opportunities andvarious classes and support
groups that your local affiliatemay offer.
There's also online classes thatyou can participate in.
For example, if you're a parentor a loved one of a young person
living with mental illness,There's a course called NAMI
Basics where you'll learn theins and outs of mental illness
(46:02):
and different symptoms andthings of that nature that your
young person in your life mightbe experiencing.
There's also support groups thatyou can find through your own
local affiliate.
So here in Philadelphia, weoperate support groups for
people living with mentalillness all throughout the
month.
And they're free.
(46:22):
All of NAMI's services are free,regardless of insurance,
regardless of socioeconomicstatus.
All of our services are free.
So if you're looking for asupport group, contact your
local NAMI office and say, hey,I'm someone living with mental
illness, and I was wondering ifyou had any support groups for
me.
(46:42):
There are also support groupsfor loved ones, for parents,
caregivers, partners, someoneliving with mental illness that
NAMI provides as well.
So we have tons and tons ofstuff.
Like I said, from support toadvocacy to education, NAMI is
here for you to love and supportwhat you're going through.
(47:03):
Oh,
SPEAKER_03 (47:04):
my gosh.
You guys are so amazing.
And let me tell you something.
The support groups...
When people are going throughwhatever mental health
challenge, they feel alone, eventhough they're surrounded by
people that love them.
And there's such a lack ofunderstanding.
So I know that when you go to asupport group and you hear other
(47:25):
people, it's a huge relief.
And it's just the beginning ofhealing.
And it's so important forfamilies to understand what's
going on, to get better insightso that they could help not only
their loved one, but alsothemselves.
Because it really affects
SPEAKER_00 (47:43):
everyone around them.
Mental illness, it's a familything.
It's not just affecting thatindividual that's living with
mental illness.
It's, in fact, affecting theircircles.
And we want to love and supporttheir circles as well.
Well, Carly, you are
SPEAKER_03 (48:00):
great.
Thank you.
You're great.
Every day, you
SPEAKER_00 (48:06):
all are making a difference.
We've seen it and we've lived itand we breathe it every day.
So it's really, it's a powerfulplace to be.
It's a powerful organization tobe a part of just to see people
thrive and live their best lifeand be true mental health
warriors.
Awesome.
(48:27):
You are my
SPEAKER_03 (48:29):
NAMI superhero.
SPEAKER_00 (48:30):
Oh, thank you.
Well, we are grateful.
A
SPEAKER_03 (48:33):
big thank you to Chris Robertson of Blackstone
Cherry and Carly Hester of NAMIPhiladelphia.
We'll be closing the episodewith Blackstone Cherry's single,
Again, so stay tuned for that.
For more information onBlackstone Cherry and to
purchase their album, The HumanCondition, visit
BlackstoneCherry.com and findthem on social media, at
(48:54):
Blackstone Cherry and atBlackstone Cherry Official.
For more information on NAMI andNAMI Philly, visit NAMI.org,
that's N-A-M-I dot org, and NAMIPhilly dot org.
So until next time, be brave,ask for help, and be persistent
in finding the mental healththat you need.
(52:47):
Check Your Head Podcast iskindly supported and partnered
with Sweet Relief MusiciansFund, DBSA San Gabriel Valley,
Earshot Media, and Lemon TreeStudios in Los Angeles.
Visit checkyourheadpodcast.comwhere we have over 100 solutions
for mental health.
Be our friends on social mediaat Check Your Head Podcast.
(53:07):
Watch us on YouTube and supportus with a kind donation on
checkyourheadpodcast.com.
Check Your Head podcast issponsored by a 501c3 nonprofit
with all donations being taxdeductible.
Thank you for your support andthank you for listening.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!