Host Mari Fong interviews pop singer/songwriter David Archuleta and psychotherapist Thomas Keenan-Hunt.
David's story begins as a devout Mormon that includes a message from above that helped him move past his suicidal thoughts to finally come out as gay. David also talks about his natural solutions to calm his paralyzing anxiety attacks. His new EP entitled “Earthly Delights” drops August 15, followed by a tour this September 17, 2025 his first tour in five years. At the end of our episode we’ll also play a clip of his new single, “Creme Brûlée.”
Our featured expert is psychotherapist Thom Keenan-Hunt, who specializes in the LGBTQ community and also worked extensively with homeless queer youth. We’ll discuss the common challenges and solutions that can often drive LGBTQ youth toward suicide along with his advice for those looking to come out when growing up in a religion that does not support homosexuality or the queer lifestyle.
Be brave, ask for help, and be persistent in finding the mental help that you need.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, the podcast
where notable musicians andexperts share their stories and
solutions for mental health andaddiction recovery.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist, and I'm
thrilled to bring you today'smusical guest.
(00:21):
This artist started his careeras a young 17-year-old, winning
first runner-up on AmericanIdol.
He debuted his single, Crush,which went double platinum, and
since then he's dropped eightstudio albums.
He recently won a 2024 GLAADMedia Award and has headlined
pride festivals across thecountry.
(00:42):
Today's guest is popsinger-songwriter David
Archuleta.
David's story begins as a devoutMormon, and his journey includes
a message from above that helpedhim move past his suicidal
thoughts as he came out to beingopenly gay.
David also talks about hisnatural solutions to calm his
paralyzing anxiety attacks andalso talks about the woman who
(01:06):
inspired his new song, HellTogether.
His new EP entitled EarthlyDelights drops August 15th,
followed by a tour thisSeptember, his first tour in
five years.
At the end of our episode, we'llalso play a clip of his new
single, Creme Brulee.
Next, our featured expert ispsychotherapist Tom Keenan-Hunt.
(01:28):
who specializes in the LGBTQcommunity and also worked
extensively with homeless queeryouth.
We'll discuss the commonchallenges that can often drive
LGBTQ youth toward suicide,along with his best professional
advice for those looking to comeout when growing up in a
religion that does not supporthomosexuality or the queer
(01:50):
lifestyle.
But first, let's hear artistDavid Archuleta share his story.
You know, I wanted to go back tobefore you came out.
You were a very faithful Mormon,and you even went out for two
years as a missionary.
And there was a time where youwere engaged to a woman, and you
(02:15):
said that you had an anxietyattack.
What do you think that was?
I
SPEAKER_03 (02:21):
guess I'm not sure exactly, but I do feel like it
was an episode of paralyzinganxiety.
I think there's a bit ofdissociating, like when
something's a bit traumatic foryou or overwhelming, you just
dissociate, you disconnect.
And I was noticing my braindoing that, where I was telling
it to do something, but itwouldn't respond.
(02:41):
I've had many anxiety attacksthroughout my life, but I guess
the one that I was referring tospecifically was when I was
engaged.
I was trying to spend time withthe person I was thought I was
going to marry and my brain juststarted to dissociate where it's
like I could just tell it wastrying to shut down to protect
(03:01):
myself and the way it wasprotecting myself was kind of
like where like a deer when itsees danger it just sits still
and it doesn't move andeverything just shuts off so
that I can sit still and that'swhat I felt like my brain was
doing.
But in my head, I'm like, well,this isn't a dangerous
situation.
Why am I reacting like this?
(03:22):
It didn't make sense to me.
But I think I realized also thatI was trying to protect myself
from the feelings that I hadbeen burying down.
SPEAKER_00 (03:32):
Well, you mentioned that you've had these anxiety or
panic attacks throughout yourlife.
And a lot of musicians seem tohave panic attacks.
Can you describe what thatfeeling is like for you?
SPEAKER_03 (03:46):
It's kind of hard to calm down.
It's hard to look at thingsrationally.
Sometimes anxiety attack, it'slike, okay, it's letting myself
know that something's going onthat's not okay and it's
dangerous.
And sometimes it's like, I thinkmy body's overreacting because
it's not as dangerous as I thinkit is, but I don't know how to
stop what's going on.
I can't shut my body and mindoff and then it then eventually
(04:10):
takes over and you are trying tofind the danger of And even when
there isn't something dangerous,it'll create something to make
sense.
You just start creating ascenario that may not be
realistic, but it is just theway that you kind of cope with
what's going on to explain whyyou're feeling so panicked and
(04:33):
anxious.
And like, I've got to get out ofhere.
Oh my gosh, I need to just, Ineed to get away.
I need to get away from thesituation or these people.
And it can take a moment for itto finally calm down.
But while it's happening, it'spretty difficult to look at
things in a practical, calmmanner and to see things for
(04:54):
what they are.
Because all you can think of iseverything's horrible,
everything's terrible, and I'vegot to, I really need to escape.
SPEAKER_00 (05:04):
Yeah, I think that's the thing with anxiety is that
it makes our fears disappear.
just become monsters and ittakes it to the extreme.
And logically, we might knowthat that is an extreme, but it
feels so real.
It feels so scary and it feelslike you just got to get out.
(05:24):
So when that happens, what doyou do to calm yourself down to
get through it?
What helps you?
SPEAKER_03 (05:34):
Gosh, yeah.
Sometimes I just need to take amoment and just be alone where
it's quiet, somewhere that'sless stimulation.
That usually helps me calm downbecause then it's like there
isn't so much being thrown at meso I can process.
And I'll a lot of times rub mychest and calm myself down
because that's quite soothing.
I'll try to breathe, just takedeep breaths to slow my breath
(05:56):
down to keep myself from feelinglike I need to be on the run.
Something that makes me feelvery anxious is doing red
carpets where it's like a lot ofcameras, a lot of lights, a lot
of people shouting and noise anda lot of people around you.
You feel like a lot of peopleare staring at you and maybe
judging you or it feels likeyou're out of control of the
(06:18):
situation.
So many other people havecontrol where you don't.
I mean, I just took a momentlast time we were on a carpet.
I just turn around and I went tothe end of the carpet and just
knelt down and gave myself amoment so that I felt like I was
to myself and alone.
If there's a show, I just walkoff stage and give myself a
(06:39):
little moment to myself.
I think that's important just togive yourself a little moment
because sometimes you think, oh,I can't.
I don't have a moment to myselfever and I have to be on.
I've got to be there foreverybody.
You know, you have to tellyourself in order to be there
for them, I've got to givemyself a moment to It's like a
little pit stop, you know, whenthe race is going, when they're
(07:01):
in the middle of a race and it'slike, well, I've got to keep
going.
But if they keep going, a wheelmight fall off or they run out
of gas and they stop mid track.
So it's important to take a pitstop, even when you're in the
middle of the race and letyourself get refueled,
rejuvenated, replace the wheelsso that you can keep going.
And I think sometimes you haveto realize, even as a performer,
(07:25):
you need to give yourself alittle moment to yourself.
And it's not being selfish.
It's not putting you behind.
It's giving you better endurancebecause you need to give
yourself a break.
You also have to learn how tosay no because people always
want more from you.
They always want demand.
Like, do you want to hear yousinging?
And you got to make more money.
And then sometimes you're like,you know what?
(07:47):
What good is the money if I'mnot in a mental place?
It's like, I'm going to end upspending it on medical issues
and psychological needs thatI'm...
Even if you're mid-show, say,you'll be right back and say,
I'm so sorry, I've got to gotake care of my needs.
Sometimes that's a mental pausethat you need to take.
SPEAKER_00 (08:05):
Thank you for that.
It's really good advice.
I know you had the album TherapySessions in 2020, and you do go
to therapy.
Are those some things that youlearned in therapy?
I mean, what has been thebenefit of therapy for you?
SPEAKER_03 (08:25):
Yeah, I did make a whole album called Therapy
Sessions of music that I wrotewhile I was going to therapy.
It was like a time ofself-introspection.
It was a time where I waslearning, okay, I know I behave
this way and I know I think thisway.
Why?
Why am I behaving this way?
Because sometimes you know youbehave a certain way, but it's
(08:46):
not always the most practicalway to react or to behave in a
situation.
And maybe there's a better wayof handling this.
Or maybe I can have morecompassion for myself when this
happens.
Because I don't know why Ibehave this way if something
sets me off or causes me to getanxious or to feel down on
(09:07):
myself or to feel hopeless.
So when you go and you're ableto take time to look and have
someone help you identify, okay,I'm feeling this way.
I feel down or I'm feelingdepressed.
and hopeless, what are usuallythe feelings that come with that
(09:29):
or the thoughts?
Or there's a pattern.
This happens each time thiscomes to my mind.
They're able to help you seewhen it happens in your life or
what may be going on in yourbody or in your head.
It's like it gives you bettercontrol.
By having a therapist who'sstudied people's behavior who
(09:51):
also knows the science behindhow the brain works the hormones
that are released that affectyour mood and how you respond to
things adrenaline or dopamineserotonin cortisol like when
things are released in your bodyand then you can regulate
yourself or have outside help oreven medication to help regulate
(10:13):
the things that happen in yourbody and Those are all things I
learned in therapy that werereally helpful.
And having someone to say, whatare the things that happen when
you're going through an anxietyattack?
You feel it in different partsof your body.
You feel your heart racing.
And so they kind of walk youthrough ways to calm yourself
(10:37):
down, put yourself in a placewhere you have control or better
control over the situation andover yourself.
So it feels really empoweringbecause you learn techniques
rather than your reaction havingthe final say.
Like if the engine goes out,you're able to glide and land
(10:58):
more safely and more smoothly.
And yeah, that's how I woulddescribe my experience with
therapy.
SPEAKER_00 (11:06):
It sounds like your therapy made you more aware of
what was going on with youmentally, physically, and maybe
a better understanding of whyall of this is happening.
And then the therapist givingyou advice on how you can change
things for the better and handleall of this stuff that's going
on with you.
(11:26):
So that's great to hear thatyou're being educated about
yourself and then you're gettingprofessional tips on how to deal
with things that are happeningin your body and your mind that
you may not understand.
So one thing I thought wasreally interesting is that you
talked about a moment in yourlife when you I almost felt this
(11:48):
intuition that God was talkingto you about being gay and queer
and LGBTQ.
Can you tell me more about thatexperience for you?
SPEAKER_03 (11:59):
Yeah.
Before I came out as queer, Iwas praying and saying, you
know, God, if you're there,please change me.
I had been doing that for manyyears, but I was just kind of
getting to my last wit's end.
And then...
I just had this feeling speakback to me, which I took as God
(12:19):
and had always taken as God,saying, David, you need to stop
asking me this because you'reasking me to change something
that I don't.
There's no reason to change.
And I was looking at myself asI'm broken, like I need to be
fixed.
And what people think of as Godis this like judgmental,
(12:41):
anti-LGBT thing.
I've learned that that's not thecase.
But if people want to say, well,no, that's not what God is.
God does not approve of you.
Then it's like, okay, then,well, that's not what spoke to
me.
And they're like, Satan canappear as an angel of light
sometimes and deceive you.
I'm like, well, how interestingthat that was the most love I
(13:03):
ever felt for myself, the mostpeace I felt, and gave me the
will to keep living my life.
And the most freeing experienceand the greatest awakening I
ever had for my life personally.
But it's very interesting thatthat's what God's told me too.
It's like, well, I don't see youthe same way you see yourself
(13:25):
and people like you the same waya lot of well-meaning religious
people see you.
And that's when I realized a lotof the things that I was trying
to please were other people.
And from that, All these peopleclaiming that they believed in
God and spoke on behalf of God,they themselves were trying to
(13:45):
play God, and they had become myGod.
I was trying to change for theirapproval because God was already
saying, you already have myapproval, and I created you the
way you are.
These people don't get that.
You're asking me to changesomething over and over.
You see at this point I'm notgoing to change it because
(14:06):
there's no reason to.
And it's time for you tounderstand that.
SPEAKER_00 (14:12):
That is such a loving message.
And, you know, I think people doget those messages throughout
their life.
It doesn't happen that often,but when it happens, you really
take notice.
You know, after reading aboutthe strict rules for sex through
the Mormon church, I can't evenimagine how hard that was for
you.
Because I know that being queerwas almost like a death in so
(14:37):
many ways.
There were a lot of fears thatcame with that.
And I think it's important totalk about because, you know,
you made it to the other sideand transitioned your lifestyle.
But there are a lot of kids outthere that are confused and
scared and they don't make it tothe other side.
SPEAKER_03 (14:55):
You know, you know, it's as far as like sex, too.
I mean, I grew up Mormon, so youjust kind of grow up in sex not
really being a thing.
So I've found that a lot ofpeople who grew up Mormon,
including in my own family.
you feel more like you're whatthey call demisexual.
Like you don't really need sexto form a relationship and feel
(15:16):
intimate with somebody.
And really it's the emotionalconnection that then leads more
to the sexual side.
But it's like, I didn't need sexto be connecting with people,
which a lot of religious peoplejust assumed like, oh, you're
coming out.
You just want to have sex withmen.
I was like, that's not the needI have.
I just want to connect withsomeone the way you do.
(15:38):
When you love someone or whenyou want to connect with
someone, is all you're thinkingabout sex?
I mean, maybe some people, butlike when you decide you want to
marry someone and love them andspend your life with them,
you're not just thinking, Ican't wait to have sex with you
all.
It's like in Mormon, you canonly have sex when you get
married.
So it's like, you just want tomarry a man, being a man, just
because you want to have sexwith them.
(15:59):
I'm like, honestly, I'm like, Idon't need to wait till marriage
if I wanted to do that.
But if I wanted to marrysomeone, it's because I want to
spend my life with them.
I want to share goals.
I want to know what their dreamsand goals are and help them
reach them.
And I want them to do the samefor me.
I want someone to go to themovies with and go on a walk and
talk about life and share abouthow my day went.
(16:21):
And if I wanted to start afamily, that I could start a
family with them.
And a lot of the misconceptionswith Mormon beliefs, as well as
many other religions, is thatyou can't be...
a same-sex couple and be happy.
And you can't raise happychildren, but I've seen many
people do that.
I've met people whose parentsare gay, and they're normal.
(16:47):
People think, oh, you're goingto turn your kids gay, and look,
they're not gay.
They were just raised by happyparents because you're taught so
many things that affect how youview yourself.
These are all the bad thingsthat people are saying about
what it means to be a queerperson.
And I'm queer.
Then how can I ever be happy?
(17:08):
There's no hope for me to behappy.
And then you realize, wait asecond, they were wrong and they
were misinformed.
And it was also important for meto find the right therapist.
I went to a therapist for one.
They helped me to an extent.
But when it came to my queeridentity, I think their
religious views were got in theway of helping me see myself,
(17:31):
they still had some misguidedinformation about the queer
experience, thinking like, well,God doesn't allow that and God
can change you.
And it's like, I went on thesite and just talked to someone
anonymously because I was tooscared to talk.
It was actually BetterHelp thatI now work with, but I saw it
(17:53):
out and I was like, I can talkto someone without having to
show my face.
amazing because I'm tooembarrassed to show my face
right now and and it was likeasking me what kind of therapist
I wanted to have and I saw LGBTQand I was like I don't know if
an LGBTQ therapist willunderstand my situation because
I still considered myselfreligious but I was like you
(18:17):
know what I'll just talk to themand see if it's any better than
the religious therapist I'vebeen meeting with and I talked
about being queer and likedating the guy and they treated
it as any other normalrelationship and just helping me
walk through like a normaltherapist would and didn't think
anything of it didn't treat melike I was bad or wrong they
(18:38):
just gave me normal therapistadvice and I was like oh this is
so nice like they didn't getstuck on well you're queer or
you might be gay so we need tofigure out why you feel that way
they just got to what I actuallyneeded which was just help
working through my mental stateand my emotional state that I
(18:59):
was in.
And so that was very helpful.
And sometimes you have to trialand error with your therapist
even.
And I usually go on and off.
I'm not like seeing a therapistconsistently every week for the
last three years.
I go on and off when I need to.
I
SPEAKER_00 (19:15):
think it's important to point out that you reached
out for help and that therapy isYou can stay anonymous.
You don't even have to say yourreal name.
Artists at a local level or at avery high level, they're worried
about their privacy.
But there's a lot that you cando anonymously.
(19:37):
Even in support groups, youcould be anonymous.
SPEAKER_02 (19:41):
Really?
SPEAKER_00 (19:42):
Yeah, you could do online support groups.
And, you know, shut off yourvideo and use a different name.
Or if you go into an in-personsupport group, I mean, that's
different.
They could see you.
They only go by first names.
And oftentimes, if you go there,you don't even have to talk.
They just listen.
You could just say pass.
I mean, because it's hard enoughwhen you're in a tough place to
(20:03):
go to a support group.
That's like the last thing youwant to do.
It's just so scary.
But you'll find people there.
very similar to yourself, maybegoing through the same things.
And there's a sense ofcamaraderie and also just
understanding.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (20:22):
That sounds beautiful, by the way.
Anonymous, still feelingcamaraderie and understanding
because I think that's what'smagical about therapy and
support groups is to feelunderstood.
It's such a huge process ofhealing and making sense of
yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (20:38):
The whole thing about being seen and heard is a
big thing right now, but whenyou really think about it, it
means everything.
For someone to see you as anindividual listening to your
personal story and reacting tothat is really everything
because we're so different fromeach other.
But at the same time, of course,you know, we're going through a
(20:59):
lot of similar things.
When you're separated from thechurch, like the fears of...
Disappointing people and alsoseparating from people like your
family must have been a reallybig fear before you came out.
What was that experience likewith your mom when you came out?
SPEAKER_03 (21:20):
My mom was one of the first people that I let know
that I was going to start datingguys.
A lot of my decisions since Iwas a little boy were made to
please my mom and get herapproval and her praise.
So I was terrified to make adecision that could go against
what would get her approval ofme.
(21:42):
When I told my mom, she didn'tapprove of what I was doing, but
that was also the liberatingfeeling because I realized it's
not about getting my mom'sapproval.
Whether she does or not, whatmatters is I'm making the best
decision for me.
I know what I'm doing is right.
Even when I have the people thatI love disagreeing with me, And
(22:06):
it was an empowering moment forme because my mom at first said,
I love you, David.
I love you, but I love God more.
And I can't accept this aboutyou.
And God's plan for you is tomarry a woman and to have
children.
And that's his only plan ofhappiness and of salvation.
And I said, Mom, you know, Ibelieved all of this up until a
(22:29):
week ago.
So I get it.
But I don't need you to acceptwhat I'm doing.
I just need you to respect thatI'm making the best decision for
me right now.
And she did respect me.
She did not agree with what Iwas doing.
But again, I realized that's notwhat it's about.
It's not about seeking otherpeople's approval.
(22:49):
And even if the people you lovedon't approve of what you're
doing, then it's important tofind people and surround
yourself with people who dosupport you.
and understand you.
Because sometimes even thepeople you love don't
understand.
And that's not always theirfault.
(23:10):
My mom, finally, like after ayear of struggling and trying to
make sense of it, did come tounderstand.
And she even decided to leavethe church.
She stepped away from the churchand then she left entirely.
And she said, you know, I'vedecided to step away from the
church.
And I was like, mom, why?
You don't have to do that.
(23:31):
I know how much the church meansto you.
And she said, well, I don't wantto be somewhere where my
children don't feel loved andwelcomed.
And if you're going to hell,then we're all going to hell
with you.
And I wrote a song about it.
It's called Hell Togetherbecause I was really touched by
what my mom said.
And I knew she, you know,neither of us really believed
that if you come out as gay orqueer, that you're going to hell
(23:54):
for it.
Like I already received ananswer from God.
That wasn't the case.
And It was more just in responseto everyone else who was on the
outside looking in, giving theiropinions and saying what they
thought.
It's like, you know what?
If they don't like the wayyou're made, then they're not
any better.
I
SPEAKER_00 (24:14):
thought that's such a beautiful tribute to your mom
because I think your transitionto being queer, it's a journey.
And I think we also have torealize it's a journey for the
people who love us.
Your mom had to go through aprocess and a journey to get to
where she is today and allowingpeople, even if they don't
(24:38):
understand, to try tounderstand.
So I'm glad that your mom isable to be with you and have the
understanding that she does inthe sense that she just loves
you as your mom and wants you toalways feel welcome.
Now, before you came out, Didyou get advice from people?
I mean, how did you build upthat courage and then also know
(25:03):
how to respond to her when sheat first didn't accept what you
were doing?
Because she had a really goodresponse about the respect.
SPEAKER_03 (25:11):
Thank you.
I think I just spent a lot oftime thinking about everything.
It was a really big decision.
And it wasn't necessarily...
spontaneous.
It was a lot of thought.
I tried really hard to findanother way through to keep
going and just keep livingstraight.
(25:33):
I think I just finally had toaccept what my path of life was.
And I had to answer a lot of myown questions because it was
very hard for me to acceptmyself.
I had already asked a lot ofthese questions internally.
I had a lot of battles, a lot ofarguments and conversations with
(25:53):
myself.
And it really concluded withthat final prayer that I had.
And so once I realized I wasgood with God and my perception
of God, then that was the mainthing for me.
It was like, I thought the worstthing that could happen was to
be rejected by God.
(26:13):
And when I wasn't and saw thatit wasn't how everyone kept
telling me and teaching me I cantake on whatever whatever comes
next I can take on no problem ittakes a lot of internal work I
think but it's worth the wrestle
SPEAKER_00 (26:31):
yeah it sounds like a lot of turmoil I could see
that I mean as you're goingthrough this turmoil you can get
depressed you could also havesuicidal thoughts and I read
that you did have suicidalthoughts at one point can you
tell me what you were thinkinglike What was going on at that
point in your life?
SPEAKER_03 (26:51):
Yeah, it's sometimes like a lot to talk about.
Sometimes it's like still worksup a lot of the emotions from
that time.
But when you're taught thathomosexuality and certain things
are equivalent to murder, whichit doesn't say anywhere in the
Bible, but a lot of people liketo use the Sodom and Gomorrah
(27:14):
story in the Bible where it'slike, the city was turned into a
pillar of salt.
And they're saying, well, he didthat because of homosexuality
going on.
Which is quite interestingbecause it doesn't say that
specifically.
The Bible says a lot of otherthings that you shouldn't do and
people are still doing them.
And it's very odd to me thatpeople will pick and choose.
(27:36):
The Bible says this.
I'm like, well, the Bible alsosays this.
You're not supposed to eat porkand you're not supposed to do
this and you're not supposedto...
do certain things on theSabbath, and for some reason you
decide that homosexuality is thething that God cares the most
about, of all the things he saidto do and not do.
And they're like, well, Godchanges.
(27:57):
I'm like, oh, well, if you thinkhe changes, well, God told me
that he was fine with me.
But when people are so convincedthat you're wrong and they're
right, and you believe them whenthey say that being gay is the
equivalent of being a murdererand not worthy of even living,
you start believing that kind oftalk yourself.
(28:20):
And so you think, well, okay,maybe it's better for me to end
my life, cut it short, than tolive evil and be this bad, evil,
gay person.
And when you finally giveyourself a chance to consider,
what if they're wrong?
Maybe they're wrong.
And I'm going to trust myinstincts and I'm going to trust
(28:42):
the answers I got in my life.
over what other people think.
And that's when you can freeyourself.
You've got to care less aboutwhat other people think because
a lot of times these people arewrong and are misguided and
don't know any better, butthey're still wrong.
And you've got to do what's bestfor you.
And it can be scary to do thatbecause you care a lot what
(29:05):
other people think.
It's worth not caring what otherpeople think to give yourself
another chance and to keep goingand be free.
Be free from what other peoplethink and live your life and
realize how much happier you canbe because of it.
SPEAKER_00 (29:21):
Well, I'm so glad that you had that perspective
and you kept going and youworked through it.
Perseverance is reallyimportant.
And you trusted your instinctsopposed to trusting other people
that were telling youmisinformation.
You're really brave.
You've become so much bolderwith your music, your lyrics.
(29:43):
You know, just the tone of yourvideos.
You have the new song, Can ICall You?
Which to me is an example offalling in love with somebody.
Like the thoughts that you haveand, you know, wanting to talk
with them.
Can you tell me more aboutstepping into that new life,
(30:04):
falling in love, and how thatfeels for you?
Yeah,
SPEAKER_03 (30:09):
it's nice to let yourself feel love for someone.
and care about them and feelgiddy and butterflies and want
to talk to them, want to givethem a call and also show
people.
It's like I came out and yeah, Iwrite songs about my experiences
when I've talked and dated andgotten to know guys and fall in
(30:30):
love with them.
And hopefully they can relate tothat feeling because it's a
sweet, beautiful feeling tohave.
And it's that feeling that youcan relate to that I'm writing
about in the song is the same.
It's the same feeling.
For some reason, it's evil whensomeone does it towards the same
sex.
But it's so beautiful and lovelyand the best feeling in the
(30:52):
world when it's towards theopposite sex.
When it comes to people whodon't understand what it is to
be in a same-sex relationship orgay relationship.
But it's the same feeling.
It's sweet.
It feels lovely.
And it's really not anydifferent.
That's why people say love islove, because it's sweet, it's
(31:16):
beautiful, it's romantic, and itcan be really special and
wholesome, and even for gaypeople.
So I'm glad you felt that fromthe song.
SPEAKER_00 (31:27):
I did, and I had to learn about what it means to be
demisexual.
Oh,
SPEAKER_03 (31:33):
demisexual,
SPEAKER_00 (31:33):
yeah.
And I thought it was reallybeautiful, because it's all
about feeling an emotional bond.
before you feel the sexual bond.
And I think that's the bestbecause you've come to know that
person and love them, the good,the bad, and the ugly.
And that makes sex better whenyou get to really know somebody.
(31:57):
So I guess I'm the same way.
So you're going to be going onthis Earthly Delights tour
coming up in September, which isexciting because it's been a
while since you've toured.
SPEAKER_03 (32:10):
Yeah, the last time I was supposed to go on a pop
tour, I got a vocal cord injuryand I had to get a surgery done.
So that was a bummer.
So I'm excited to finally go.
And the tour before that wascanceled because of COVID, the
pandemic.
So it's been a minute since I'vegotten to do a tour.
So it'll be fun to interact withthe fans, especially now that
(32:33):
I'm in this new part of my life.
And I'm in such a differentplace now.
Before, I was very nervous andshy.
I still had fun, but still wasvery self-conscious.
And I'm still probably a littleself-conscious, but this time I
get to be fun and flirty andsexy and dancing and playful.
And the type of music I'mwriting lets me go there the way
(32:56):
I never allowed myself tobefore.
So it should be really fun to goand share the journey from where
I was before to today witheverybody.
And the earthly delights, likeindulging in what I thought I
couldn't indulge in before.
That's what they use kind oflike as a negative thing in
religion is like, oh, you'reindulging in sin and these
(33:19):
horrible things.
And I'm like, okay, well, I'mgoing to indulge in these
earthly delights.
And I hope people can also enjoyand indulge in the earthly
delights along with me.
SPEAKER_00 (33:29):
You were in the Joseph the Amazing podcast.
Technicolor Dreamcoat.
SPEAKER_03 (33:34):
I
SPEAKER_02 (33:35):
was, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:36):
And that is like Broadway.
That is like colorful spectacle.
And then I think about yourvideo, Cream Brulee, and how fun
that was with all the music andthe dancing.
I mean, I just see this being awhole stage show.
Can you give us a little previewof what the tour is going to be
(33:57):
like?
SPEAKER_03 (33:59):
Oh my gosh, yeah.
The Joseph That was my firsttime being in a musical, and it
was so fun to do.
And it was.
It was a huge spectacle and somany people on stage.
I think it'll still be fun tothrow a little flair in there.
I do feel like it'll be moreintimate.
What's fun about the musicals isthere is a lot of playfulness in
(34:19):
it, and I feel like I will getin a little bit of that
character on the EarthlyDelights tour, because there's
still a big part of me that'slike, oh, that's so unlike me.
It's so fun to get intocharacter, warm up and go out of
your comfort zone and broadenyour horizons a little bit.
And there will be choreography.
There'll be fun moments, playfulmoments, and flirt with the
(34:44):
crowd a little bit.
SPEAKER_00 (34:45):
I'm going to go to your show.
Oh,
SPEAKER_03 (34:48):
really?
SPEAKER_00 (34:49):
Definitely.
Are you kidding me?
I'm definitely going.
How are you going to maintainyour mental health while on
tour?
SPEAKER_03 (34:56):
That's a good question.
Physical activity is reallyimportant for me.
So like doing exercises hasreally helped me with my mental
health and making sure I eatbalanced as well.
If I had too many fried foods ortoo many sweets, it can make me
crash and it does affect mymood.
(35:17):
I can get pretty emotional,moody when I have too many
sweets.
And it's hard because a lot ofpeople will gift you sweets when
you're on tour.
I make sure I drink lots ofwater and sleep is really
important.
Sometimes it's hard to getsleep, but it's like, you know
what?
I get somewhere and if I didn'tsleep very much the night
before, I'm taking a napwherever I can.
(35:38):
Like even if it's up until rightbefore the show because I need
that energy.
It's so important to maintain agood and healthy mind to sleep
well.
And I think those as well asjust like taking breaks when I
need it.
and talking to people when Ineed to as well because it can
(35:59):
be a little rigorous travelingconstantly you're not at home
you're just constantly on the goaround people in different
cities and it can be a lot ofstimulation sometimes it's good
to just talk to somebody catchup with a friend and just feel a
little sense of normalcy and Bearound someone who gets you, who
(36:19):
looks at you just like human tohuman being rather than just as
this artist performer that theypaid money to come see.
I think it's important to justground in that way.
Just talk to people and have anormal conversation about life
or how you're feeling, etc.
SPEAKER_00 (36:37):
Okay.
Thank you for being involved inall these pride parades and
representing the queercommunity.
I think it's really important.
But there's also an attack onthe queer community right now
politically.
What are your thoughts on that?
I
SPEAKER_03 (36:58):
think when people are upset and stressed, they're
feeling a lot of pressure fromlife and just how things are in
their state or their city ortheir country, all the political
influences that everyone has topay a price on, or there's
unrest going on.
It's easy to put the blame ongroups that are a minority
(37:20):
because I think instinctually ashumans, we want to feel like
this enemy, this hero versus thevillain, like someone to attack,
to feel like you've conqueredand have a victory over.
You blame people who really arenot any reason for your
suffering or for your pain orfor your anger or for your hurt.
(37:41):
It's just easy to put the blameon them.
The queer community is one ofthem.
and just naturally I think anygroup that is a minority group
versus the general populationit's easy to put the blame on
them when really it's the peoplein power who are the minority
that are trying to keep theirpower and maintain it and say
well we don't want to be blamedfor your problems because we're
(38:04):
the ones who are taking more ofyour money we're the ones kind
of hoarding and hogging all ofthe benefits for ourselves and
So instead of you catching on tothat and blaming us and holding
us accountable, we're going toblame this minority group, the
queer community.
So you look at them, they'redifferent.
I feel like it's an easy way todistract and it's unfortunate.
And I hope people can catch onto that.
(38:27):
The main minority group is thepeople in power.
And they do everything they canto do smoke and mirrors, to
deflect from the way thatthey're treating all of us.
It's unfortunate.
That's how it is.
Whenever people come into morepower, it just seems like it's a
universal issue.
No matter where you are, themore power you have, the more
(38:48):
you want to take from everyoneand then say, well, it's their
fault.
It's their fault.
I hope people can see that queerpeople, the LGBTQ plus community
is not causing issues.
They're not raising your taxes.
They're not raising yourmortgage.
They're not making hospitalvisits harder for you.
(39:09):
Even though they try to blame itlike, oh, the trans people,
they're trying to get thegovernment to pay for their sex
changes and things, which fromwhat I understand is not usually
the case.
And it's deflection.
It's frustrating because it'slike, what do you do?
All you can do is say, you knowwhat?
I'm a part of the group thatthey're using to weaponize and
(39:30):
villainize.
And I just need you to knowthat's not the case.
That's not what I'm trying todo.
That's not who I am.
That's why you've got to makeyourself known even more.
to show I'm not what you'rebeing told and I've got to
defend myself.
So hopefully we can continuejust protesting and making
(39:50):
ourselves known, going to Pride.
I just did Utah Pride recentlyand they said Pride is a protest
to stand up for yourself andmake yourself known.
Because if you don't, then theywill easily shift the blame onto
you in a very unjust manner.
SPEAKER_00 (40:10):
Well, David, thank you for being a superhero.
Do you see my t-shirt?
SPEAKER_03 (40:15):
Oh, amazing.
Superhero.
SPEAKER_00 (40:17):
You know, when you speak out on your mental health
and you share your story and youshare your solutions, you've had
a lot of solutions that youshared with us today.
So thank you very much.
Is there anything else that youwould like to say about mental
health or anything on your mindthat you would like to say to
your fans?
SPEAKER_03 (40:36):
There are a lot of things that we're told to be
afraid of that we don't need tolike taking care of your mental
health like going to see atherapist or just to talk to
someone or to do more researchonline like there's a lot of
times we're taught to fearourselves and it's completely
unnecessary and be willing tobreak the mold to stand up for
yourself and to find theresources that will help you
(41:00):
live a happy healthy life andsurround yourself with people
who will help you grow andsupport you and help you feel
seen and understood.
That's what it's all about.
SPEAKER_00 (41:11):
Next up, we have psychotherapist Tom Kinnon-Hunt,
who spent seven years working atLos Angeles' LGBT Center as a
counselor and addiction recoveryspecialist.
Tom also works with HIV-positiveclients, gay men, and the
greater LGBTQ community.
(41:33):
We'll talk about topics fromDavid Archuleta's interview, and
listen to our expert sharing hisbest professional solutions and
advice.
I wanted to start off talkingabout something that I read.
It says LGBTQ youth are almostfive times as likely to have
attempted suicide compared toheterosexual youth, with 40% of
(41:56):
transgender adults reportinghaving made a suicide attempt.
And 92% of these individualsreported having attempted
suicide before the age of 25.
Can you give me your thoughts onjust statistics like these?
SPEAKER_04 (42:13):
Yeah, they're alarming, right?
And I fear that those numbersare going to rise.
That is my fear.
It's a grave concern of mine.
There are two significant thingsthat happened just in the last
two days alone.
One being that the Supreme Courtdecided to uphold this ban in
Tennessee, not providinggender-affirming care.
(42:36):
Unfortunately, of all places, weare seeing this, and I live
literally across the street fromChildren's Hospital LA.
They are ceasing theirgender-affirming care for kids.
The other thing that we just sawis the Trump regime, I call it a
regime, that they are endingLGBTQ suicide prevention
(42:57):
hotline.
So what are we doing?
We're going backwards with muchneeded resources.
I mean, even with the resourcesthat we do have, there's still
not enough.
These numbers that you cited areI can't remember a time when
they've ever trended downward,but I am aware of how things
(43:18):
like depression, anxiety,addiction, suicide, trauma occur
in greater percentages amongstthe LGBTQ population.
SPEAKER_00 (43:28):
Right.
And that's kind of what I wantedto talk about starting off.
Because of these statistics, Canyou tell me some of the common
challenges that queer youth andthe community have to deal with
that kind of drive them towardsuicide or self-harm?
SPEAKER_04 (43:44):
Absolutely.
So for a time when I did work atthe LGBT Center here in Los
Angeles, I was providing drop-ingroups.
They were harm reduction groups,meaning for addiction or
substance abuse.
We weren't trying to necessarilystop people from using.
We really recognize that peopledo use as a response.
(44:07):
How can we perhaps make it alittle bit safer so they're not
doing as much harm tothemselves?
So that was the purpose of thesegroups, right?
Specifically targeted for 18 to24-year-olds.
So a lot of those kids, and evenin broader community, they're
facing things like, you know,having been thrown out of their
homes, having been rejected bytheir families of origin.
(44:29):
How awful is that?
You know, these are supposed tobe your caregivers, your primary
caregivers, your primaryattachment figures, and they are
throwing you away.
They are discarding thesechildren as if they're garbage.
And that is such an awfulmessage to internalize.
You know, it becomes...
wow, there must be somethingreally wrong with me.
(44:50):
So it's heartbreaking and itstill continues.
SPEAKER_00 (44:54):
You're talking about the challenges, being unloved,
unwelcome.
I'm sure there's a lot ofbullying that happens.
And when all of this happens, itcould come to a head.
You know, in David's situation,his mother at first didn't
accept him coming out, butthankfully she came around and
(45:15):
and was accepting of him andloved him and welcomed him just
as a mother should.
But one thing I was wondering isjust the whole process of coming
out full of anxiety.
As a therapist, what is someadvice that you could give
somebody to think about beforethey come out?
SPEAKER_04 (45:36):
So the first piece of advice I would give is, is it
safe?
Is it safe to come out?
Who do I share this with?
Who do I share this integralpiece of my identity with?
Who do I feel safe enough to dothat with?
And it's not always safe, as wetalked about at the beginning,
right?
We're talking about somefamilies really rejecting their
own children, right?
(45:57):
So that's not necessarily safe.
Those kids, particularly thekids that I worked with, they
were homeless.
They were seeking shelter at theLGBT center, which they do
provide, you know, transitionaryliving and all kinds of ways in
which to help these kids.
So is it safe would be my numberone piece of advice.
Do you have support?
(46:17):
And if it's not at home, whereis that support?
Do you have other queer, gay,lesbian, transgender friends?
Are you involved in queercommunity?
I've worked with youngsters thatreally didn't have a concept
that there's a whole communityout there that they can actually
access, especially if they'relacking support from family,
(46:40):
friends, their church.
I know that was a big part ofDavid's story.
So, you know, safety and supportare probably the two biggest
things that I would suggest.
So also before we go on, I justwanted to comment something that
struck me about David'sexperience with his mom was what
you mentioned.
She wasn't accepting at first,you know, I love you, but I love
(47:01):
God more.
And it was so fascinating to meto imagine, you know, like, your
child is who you love most inthe world.
That's how it should be beyondeverything.
I was really heartened to hearthat she came around.
And then she, in fact, left thechurch.
And subsequently, he wrote thatsong, Held Together.
I thought that was so beautiful,actually.
SPEAKER_00 (47:21):
It's very beautiful.
And I think that's the otherthing was that each of us are
going through a journey thatmight take a while.
we might not be expressing thatjourney to other people.
Maybe we're keeping it inconfidence to ourself.
When David chose to come out tohis mom, we also have to realize
that they have to go through ajourney.
(47:43):
And she did.
She came to realize that shewanted her son to feel welcomed
everywhere he went and that shedidn't agree with the church's
beliefs.
And thankfully, she went withher son.
But I could see where there area lot of queer people youth that
are on the streets because theydon't have that acceptance from
(48:06):
their family.
What are some of the things thatsomeone can do to, I guess,
reconcile the beliefs of areligion that they grew up with,
where it's like such astrong-held belief?
SPEAKER_04 (48:19):
Yeah, it's very challenging and delicate on how
to approach.
So the way I approachtherapeutically, I'm not going
to say oh, your religion iswrong because it's a belief that
they may be very deeply held bythem.
That is the central conflict.
Well, I'm gay, but my religiontells me that I'm going to hell
or I'm better off dead, right?
(48:39):
What a horrible message tointernalize because that's where
you get all these kids goinglike, well, then there must be
something wrong with me becausethe religious belief is so
deeply held that it's very hardto disentangle that.
So I look at things like thesafety and security component,
but if you were to come out toyour parents, what do you
(49:00):
imagine that process would belike?
You know, what are the benefitsof you coming out now at this
time?
Is now the right time, right?
I just want to prepare somebodywith as many questions, you
know, They have to make thatdecision if they're going to
leave their church.
They have to come to that ontheir own terms, but I'm there
(49:21):
to help guide and maybe givesome gentle nudges because I've
seen, myself included, and evenDavid's story, eventually it's
rejecting of some churchdoctrine that really is not, you
know, it doesn't serve queerpeople.
It's not welcoming.
It's not loving as they claim.
When I was growing up, Duringthe 80s, the height of the AIDS
(49:44):
crisis, and there were no gayqueer icons to look towards,
like we have so many today, Idove deeper into the closet.
I went to Catholic school and Iheard those same messages.
My response was, screw that.
I don't want a part of thatreligion if that's what they're
telling me, right?
I mean, I had my own struggles,obviously, but as far as working
(50:07):
with those clients, we meetpeople where they're at.
As therapists, we meet ourclients where they're at.
And if they're still entrenchedin their religious upbringing
and they're dealing with thatinternal struggle, I want to
support them as much aspossible.
So it's a very delicate dance.
SPEAKER_00 (50:25):
Well, when you came out in the 80s where there
wasn't as much support orknowledge about the queer
community, what was the mostchallenging part of that for
you?
SPEAKER_04 (50:35):
So for me, when you have a child who grows up in any
type of minority, whether it'san ethnic minority or a sexual
minority, gender identityminority, what we need is
whatever that is reflected backto us.
In other words, like if you growup Jewish, you're probably
growing up in a Jewish householdand you're having a lot of
(50:56):
Jewishness reflected back to youby your immediate environment.
Same with blackness or beingAsian, but you're having that
experience reflected back to youdirectly.
Most gay children do not havethat.
So I grew up gay.
I didn't have gayness reflectedback to me.
I didn't have it in this family.
I didn't have it in religion.
I didn't have it amongstfriends.
(51:17):
So I felt so alone.
And the jokes at the time,right, the height of the AIDS
crisis, this is what I was upagainst was, hey, what does gay
mean?
Got AIDS yet?
Hey, what does AIDS mean?
Adios, infected dick sucker.
Like those were the messagesthat I was hearing.
So I dove deeper into thecloset.
While I never was suicidal,there were moments where I
(51:41):
thought, I just, I don't want tobe here.
And I can viscerally remember,like, I would punch myself in
the face going like, why are yougay?
Don't be gay.
Why do you have to be this way?
So that was what it was like.
SPEAKER_00 (51:53):
That's so tough.
That's so hard.
And then also going through theAIDS crisis, that whole period
where a lot of people passedaway.
What was the turning point foryou to say, you know what, it's
time for me to come out and livemy authentic life?
What was that trigger for you?
It
SPEAKER_04 (52:12):
was a process.
I was a little bit of a laterbloomer and coming out like
mid-20s.
What was the trigger point was Iwas attending University of
Maryland as a theater major andI was into acting and I had just
landed a gig, a significant gigthat brought me to Hollywood.
Unbeknownst to me, I had no ideathat there were entire gay
(52:34):
communities, right?
So here I come with these starsin my eyes and this ambition.
Meanwhile, very deeply closeted,mind you.
I distinctly remember my collegebuddy and I, we newly arrived
and we stopped to get money outof the bank.
And I look around and I noticedthat it's almost all men in the
bank, right?
Well, it so happened we stoppedin West Hollywood, which is one
(52:55):
of the conclaves of gaycommunity here in Los Angeles.
So I had this slow dawningrealization like, oh, wait a
minute, there's a wholecommunity of people like me
where previously I'd felt soalone.
So that was a trigger point intodiscovering that, yes, I am not
alone.
You know, by the time I came outto my parents, I thought if I
came out to them, would theyreject me?
(53:18):
I did not want to be rejected bymy parents.
They accepted me immediately,right?
They told me, you know, we loveyou.
But I didn't know that becausesexuality also wasn't really
discussed in my household.
So I didn't know.
I had no idea.
Is this a safe place in my veryown home?
SPEAKER_00 (53:35):
I'm so glad that worked out for you and that your
parents were open-minded andloving, you know, chose love
over religion.
One thing I was reading is thatyou help your clients to rewrite
problem stories.
And I could see where that wouldbe really helpful, especially
(53:55):
growing up maybe with feelingsof shame or embarrassment or
guilt or whatever those negativefeelings are associated with
being queer and living more in aheterosexual society.
So tell me about how you do thisto rewrite problem stories and
beliefs.
SPEAKER_04 (54:16):
So that's a form of therapy known as narrative
therapy.
So we all subscribe tonarratives, to stories about
either how we view ourselves orhow we view the external world.
And they're just stories.
They're just that.
It's the way in which I movethrough the world.
And that can come out as eitherthrough my beliefs, whether
(54:37):
they're religious beliefs,political beliefs, any type of
belief system that I hold.
that can come out in myidentity, my work identity, my
identity as a brother or ahusband, any number of ways.
But what is the story that Itell myself about myself?
Oh, I'm a good person that isempathetic and whatever the
(54:58):
story is, right?
Now, when we're looking at whatthese narratives might have been
and why we might want to changethem, well, usually a narrative
is formed as a means to navigatethe world.
And so what once worked may nolonger work.
And I'll give you an examplethat's really relevant to our
discussion today.
When I was in high school andcollege, I had a series of
(55:22):
girlfriends deliberately becauseI wanted to show you how not gay
I was.
So I would parade differentgirlfriends and inevitably, as
we're getting physically closer,I was like, oh no, I can't do
that.
So I would break up with themand then find the next one,
right?
But that served me.
(55:42):
That served to protect thisidentity that I hadn't come out
yet.
So that was part of my story.
Like, see, look at me, straightboy with the girlfriends, right?
Well, when I come out, like,that no longer serves me at all,
right?
So I look at the problematicnarratives that people might
carry into therapy with them, ifit's relevant.
(56:03):
I looked at what it was like togrow up gay or queer in a
heteronormative culture and howwe carry those things forward
into our adulthood.
SPEAKER_00 (56:12):
That's really interesting.
So you kind of find out thestory that they have and then
developing a new story.
Okay, let's really look at whoyou are today and let's start to
believe in that, like your moreauthentic self.
You know, with all theseemotions growing up, how do you
embrace self-love andself-acceptance?
SPEAKER_04 (56:33):
It's challenging because we are often entrenched
in our stories.
In addition to the narrativeapproach, I use a lot of
cognitive behavioral therapy,which is essentially just the
connection between our thoughts,our feelings, and our behaviors.
They all influence each other.
So I look for that distortedthinking or those
assumption-making.
(56:53):
A prime example might be like, Isend you, Mari, a text message,
and it's not returned to me,either timely or a couple days
go by.
And I start to formulate astory.
Oh, Mari, she didn't return mytext message.
She must be mad at me.
I did something wrong.
She hates me.
I'm a terrible person.
(57:13):
I've concocted this whole storyabout both you and I when the
simple fact of the matter is Isent a text message and it
wasn't returned.
That's it.
That's all we know.
Those are the facts.
Everything else is the brainrunning away with itself in
speculation.
And I'm rooted in anxiety.
It does run away with me, but Irecognize it early on now
(57:36):
because of the work that I'vedone both personally and
professionally.
And I tell myself, oh, Tom,you're storytelling again.
You need to just walk it backand understand.
Maybe Mari wasn't near herphone.
Maybe she got the message,looked at it, and intended to
return the text message, but shejust forgot I've done that.
So there's all kinds of otherexplanations, but our brain
(57:56):
fills in the blanks when itdoesn't know what's happening.
SPEAKER_00 (58:00):
Right.
And I think sometimes we're notconscious about those
insecurities that might comeout.
Or even when we're havingconversations, we can get
triggered by something and thenreact in anger or react in
sadness.
And it's because we're creatingthese stories.
There were so many things aboutDavid's story, but I want us to
(58:20):
see if there's anything that youwould like to comment on in
general about what he revealedand about his experience.
SPEAKER_04 (58:30):
I was touched by his experience with the suicidal
thoughts around being gay orcoming out.
He expressed how he wasreceiving these messages, and he
really had this realization,like, I'm perfect as I am.
And, you know, he embraced hisauthentic self, and I just have
so much love and respect andadmiration for that.
SPEAKER_00 (58:51):
One thing about suicidal thoughts, I was
wondering if you had theopportunity and you found out
that one of your clients wasthinking about committing
suicide, what would you say tothat person to talk them off the
ledge?
SPEAKER_04 (59:07):
So with suicide, it's a very taboo, sensitive
subject.
And the reality is we need totalk about it.
And I lean into it with myclients.
So in other words, just visuallyimagine a client in the
trenches.
I'm going to climb down in thetrench with them, okay?
I'm going to be like, I'm herewith you.
Tell me what's going on.
Tell me what are your thoughts.
(59:28):
What has you feeling this way,thinking this way?
But in just talking about it,that's really critical.
They feel like they'resupported, that somebody is
seeing them and validating theirexperience and being there with
them.
Oftentimes the suicidalideation, that can be tough,
that can be challenging, buthopefully this is just a
(59:51):
temporary feeling.
And oftentimes it is, and itsubsides, but it can be very
challenging to get through thosemoments.
SPEAKER_00 (59:59):
Sometimes these thoughts, they do go through
your mind, not just with LGBTQyouth.
I've had depression and anxiety,and it's actually part of the
condition to have some of thesethoughts.
So really to persevere throughthat, maybe reach out or talk
with somebody where they couldfeel seen and heard and get past
(01:00:20):
that strong emotion that theymight be having at that moment.
A big thank you to our musicalguest, David Archuleta, and our
mental health expert, TomKeenan-Hunt.
For more information on DavidArchuleta, visit
davidarchuleta.com, where youcan purchase his Earthly
Delights EP, and tickets to hisupcoming tour starting September
(01:00:42):
17, 2025.
Stay tuned to listen to a clipof David's single, Creme Brulee.
And for more information on TomKeenan Hunt, visit TomHunt.com.
And that's Tom spelled T-H-O-M.
Be sure to follow Check YourHead Podcast on your socials.
And please subscribe to CheckYour Head Podcast's YouTube
(01:01:03):
channel and visitCheckYourHeadPodcast.com.
for the largest online list offree and affordable mental
health and addiction recoverysolutions.
So until next time, be brave,ask for help.
and be persistent in finding themental health and addiction
recovery you
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:21):
need.
(01:01:46):
you want me in slow-mo slap melike a photo Your serotonin on
(01:02:28):
the nightstand.
I'm not even trying.
One night and it's taking mypraises.
Two times and I got you saying.
Three wood freezes skippingstages.
Oh no.
There goes all of your clothes.
Speaking words you don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02:53):
Check Your Head Podcast is kindly supported and
partnered with Sweet ReliefMusicians Fund, DBSA San Gabriel
Valley, Earshot Media, and LemonTree Studios in Los Angeles.
Visit checkyourheadpodcast.comwhere we have over 100 solutions
for mental health.
Be our friends on social mediaat Check Your Head Podcast.
(01:03:13):
Watch us on YouTube and supportus with a kind donation on
checkyourheadpodcast.com.
Check Your Head podcast issponsored by a 501c3 nonprofit
with all donations being taxdeductible.
Thank you for your support andthank you for listening.
Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, the podcast
where notable musicians andexperts share their stories and
solutions for mental health andaddiction recovery.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist, and I'm
thrilled to bring you today'smusical guest.
(00:21):
This artist started his careeras a young 17-year-old, winning
first runner-up on AmericanIdol.
He debuted his single, Crush,which went double platinum, and
since then he's dropped eightstudio albums.
He recently won a 2024 GLAADMedia Award and has headlined
pride festivals across thecountry.
(00:42):
Today's guest is popsinger-songwriter David
Archuleta.
David's story begins as a devoutMormon, and his journey includes
a message from above that helpedhim move past his suicidal
thoughts as he came out to beingopenly gay.
David also talks about hisnatural solutions to calm his
paralyzing anxiety attacks andalso talks about the woman who
(01:06):
inspired his new song, HellTogether.
His new EP entitled EarthlyDelights drops August 15th,
followed by a tour thisSeptember, his first tour in
five years.
At the end of our episode, we'llalso play a clip of his new
single, Creme Brulee.
Next, our featured expert ispsychotherapist Tom Keenan-Hunt.
(01:28):
who specializes in the LGBTQcommunity and also worked
extensively with homeless queeryouth.
We'll discuss the commonchallenges that can often drive
LGBTQ youth toward suicide,along with his best professional
advice for those looking to comeout when growing up in a
religion that does not supporthomosexuality or the queer
(01:50):
lifestyle.
But first, let's hear artistDavid Archuleta share his story.
You know, I wanted to go back tobefore you came out.
You were a very faithful Mormon,and you even went out for two
years as a missionary.
And there was a time where youwere engaged to a woman, and you
(02:15):
said that you had an anxietyattack.
What do you think that was?
I
SPEAKER_03 (02:21):
guess I'm not sure exactly, but I do feel like it
was an episode of paralyzinganxiety.
I think there's a bit ofdissociating, like when
something's a bit traumatic foryou or overwhelming, you just
dissociate, you disconnect.
And I was noticing my braindoing that, where I was telling
it to do something, but itwouldn't respond.
(02:41):
I've had many anxiety attacksthroughout my life, but I guess
the one that I was referring tospecifically was when I was
engaged.
I was trying to spend time withthe person I was thought I was
going to marry and my brain juststarted to dissociate where it's
like I could just tell it wastrying to shut down to protect
(03:01):
myself and the way it wasprotecting myself was kind of
like where like a deer when itsees danger it just sits still
and it doesn't move andeverything just shuts off so
that I can sit still and that'swhat I felt like my brain was
doing.
But in my head, I'm like, well,this isn't a dangerous
situation.
Why am I reacting like this?
(03:22):
It didn't make sense to me.
But I think I realized also thatI was trying to protect myself
from the feelings that I hadbeen burying down.
SPEAKER_00 (03:32):
Well, you mentioned that you've had these anxiety or
panic attacks throughout yourlife.
And a lot of musicians seem tohave panic attacks.
Can you describe what thatfeeling is like for you?
SPEAKER_03 (03:46):
It's kind of hard to calm down.
It's hard to look at thingsrationally.
Sometimes anxiety attack, it'slike, okay, it's letting myself
know that something's going onthat's not okay and it's
dangerous.
And sometimes it's like, I thinkmy body's overreacting because
it's not as dangerous as I thinkit is, but I don't know how to
stop what's going on.
I can't shut my body and mindoff and then it then eventually
(04:10):
takes over and you are trying tofind the danger of And even when
there isn't something dangerous,it'll create something to make
sense.
You just start creating ascenario that may not be
realistic, but it is just theway that you kind of cope with
what's going on to explain whyyou're feeling so panicked and
(04:33):
anxious.
And like, I've got to get out ofhere.
Oh my gosh, I need to just, Ineed to get away.
I need to get away from thesituation or these people.
And it can take a moment for itto finally calm down.
But while it's happening, it'spretty difficult to look at
things in a practical, calmmanner and to see things for
(04:54):
what they are.
Because all you can think of iseverything's horrible,
everything's terrible, and I'vegot to, I really need to escape.
SPEAKER_00 (05:04):
Yeah, I think that's the thing with anxiety is that
it makes our fears disappear.
just become monsters and ittakes it to the extreme.
And logically, we might knowthat that is an extreme, but it
feels so real.
It feels so scary and it feelslike you just got to get out.
(05:24):
So when that happens, what doyou do to calm yourself down to
get through it?
What helps you?
SPEAKER_03 (05:34):
Gosh, yeah.
Sometimes I just need to take amoment and just be alone where
it's quiet, somewhere that'sless stimulation.
That usually helps me calm downbecause then it's like there
isn't so much being thrown at meso I can process.
And I'll a lot of times rub mychest and calm myself down
because that's quite soothing.
I'll try to breathe, just takedeep breaths to slow my breath
(05:56):
down to keep myself from feelinglike I need to be on the run.
Something that makes me feelvery anxious is doing red
carpets where it's like a lot ofcameras, a lot of lights, a lot
of people shouting and noise anda lot of people around you.
You feel like a lot of peopleare staring at you and maybe
judging you or it feels likeyou're out of control of the
(06:18):
situation.
So many other people havecontrol where you don't.
I mean, I just took a momentlast time we were on a carpet.
I just turn around and I went tothe end of the carpet and just
knelt down and gave myself amoment so that I felt like I was
to myself and alone.
If there's a show, I just walkoff stage and give myself a
(06:39):
little moment to myself.
I think that's important just togive yourself a little moment
because sometimes you think, oh,I can't.
I don't have a moment to myselfever and I have to be on.
I've got to be there foreverybody.
You know, you have to tellyourself in order to be there
for them, I've got to givemyself a moment to It's like a
little pit stop, you know, whenthe race is going, when they're
(07:01):
in the middle of a race and it'slike, well, I've got to keep
going.
But if they keep going, a wheelmight fall off or they run out
of gas and they stop mid track.
So it's important to take a pitstop, even when you're in the
middle of the race and letyourself get refueled,
rejuvenated, replace the wheelsso that you can keep going.
And I think sometimes you haveto realize, even as a performer,
(07:25):
you need to give yourself alittle moment to yourself.
And it's not being selfish.
It's not putting you behind.
It's giving you better endurancebecause you need to give
yourself a break.
You also have to learn how tosay no because people always
want more from you.
They always want demand.
Like, do you want to hear yousinging?
And you got to make more money.
And then sometimes you're like,you know what?
(07:47):
What good is the money if I'mnot in a mental place?
It's like, I'm going to end upspending it on medical issues
and psychological needs thatI'm...
Even if you're mid-show, say,you'll be right back and say,
I'm so sorry, I've got to gotake care of my needs.
Sometimes that's a mental pausethat you need to take.
SPEAKER_00 (08:05):
Thank you for that.
It's really good advice.
I know you had the album TherapySessions in 2020, and you do go
to therapy.
Are those some things that youlearned in therapy?
I mean, what has been thebenefit of therapy for you?
SPEAKER_03 (08:25):
Yeah, I did make a whole album called Therapy
Sessions of music that I wrotewhile I was going to therapy.
It was like a time ofself-introspection.
It was a time where I waslearning, okay, I know I behave
this way and I know I think thisway.
Why?
Why am I behaving this way?
Because sometimes you know youbehave a certain way, but it's
(08:46):
not always the most practicalway to react or to behave in a
situation.
And maybe there's a better wayof handling this.
Or maybe I can have morecompassion for myself when this
happens.
Because I don't know why Ibehave this way if something
sets me off or causes me to getanxious or to feel down on
(09:07):
myself or to feel hopeless.
So when you go and you're ableto take time to look and have
someone help you identify, okay,I'm feeling this way.
I feel down or I'm feelingdepressed.
and hopeless, what are usuallythe feelings that come with that
(09:29):
or the thoughts?
Or there's a pattern.
This happens each time thiscomes to my mind.
They're able to help you seewhen it happens in your life or
what may be going on in yourbody or in your head.
It's like it gives you bettercontrol.
By having a therapist who'sstudied people's behavior who
(09:51):
also knows the science behindhow the brain works the hormones
that are released that affectyour mood and how you respond to
things adrenaline or dopamineserotonin cortisol like when
things are released in your bodyand then you can regulate
yourself or have outside help oreven medication to help regulate
(10:13):
the things that happen in yourbody and Those are all things I
learned in therapy that werereally helpful.
And having someone to say, whatare the things that happen when
you're going through an anxietyattack?
You feel it in different partsof your body.
You feel your heart racing.
And so they kind of walk youthrough ways to calm yourself
(10:37):
down, put yourself in a placewhere you have control or better
control over the situation andover yourself.
So it feels really empoweringbecause you learn techniques
rather than your reaction havingthe final say.
Like if the engine goes out,you're able to glide and land
(10:58):
more safely and more smoothly.
And yeah, that's how I woulddescribe my experience with
therapy.
SPEAKER_00 (11:06):
It sounds like your therapy made you more aware of
what was going on with youmentally, physically, and maybe
a better understanding of whyall of this is happening.
And then the therapist givingyou advice on how you can change
things for the better and handleall of this stuff that's going
on with you.
(11:26):
So that's great to hear thatyou're being educated about
yourself and then you're gettingprofessional tips on how to deal
with things that are happeningin your body and your mind that
you may not understand.
So one thing I thought wasreally interesting is that you
talked about a moment in yourlife when you I almost felt this
(11:48):
intuition that God was talkingto you about being gay and queer
and LGBTQ.
Can you tell me more about thatexperience for you?
SPEAKER_03 (11:59):
Yeah.
Before I came out as queer, Iwas praying and saying, you
know, God, if you're there,please change me.
I had been doing that for manyyears, but I was just kind of
getting to my last wit's end.
And then...
I just had this feeling speakback to me, which I took as God
(12:19):
and had always taken as God,saying, David, you need to stop
asking me this because you'reasking me to change something
that I don't.
There's no reason to change.
And I was looking at myself asI'm broken, like I need to be
fixed.
And what people think of as Godis this like judgmental,
(12:41):
anti-LGBT thing.
I've learned that that's not thecase.
But if people want to say, well,no, that's not what God is.
God does not approve of you.
Then it's like, okay, then,well, that's not what spoke to
me.
And they're like, Satan canappear as an angel of light
sometimes and deceive you.
I'm like, well, how interestingthat that was the most love I
(13:03):
ever felt for myself, the mostpeace I felt, and gave me the
will to keep living my life.
And the most freeing experienceand the greatest awakening I
ever had for my life personally.
But it's very interesting thatthat's what God's told me too.
It's like, well, I don't see youthe same way you see yourself
(13:25):
and people like you the same waya lot of well-meaning religious
people see you.
And that's when I realized a lotof the things that I was trying
to please were other people.
And from that, All these peopleclaiming that they believed in
God and spoke on behalf of God,they themselves were trying to
(13:45):
play God, and they had become myGod.
I was trying to change for theirapproval because God was already
saying, you already have myapproval, and I created you the
way you are.
These people don't get that.
You're asking me to changesomething over and over.
You see at this point I'm notgoing to change it because
(14:06):
there's no reason to.
And it's time for you tounderstand that.
SPEAKER_00 (14:12):
That is such a loving message.
And, you know, I think people doget those messages throughout
their life.
It doesn't happen that often,but when it happens, you really
take notice.
You know, after reading aboutthe strict rules for sex through
the Mormon church, I can't evenimagine how hard that was for
you.
Because I know that being queerwas almost like a death in so
(14:37):
many ways.
There were a lot of fears thatcame with that.
And I think it's important totalk about because, you know,
you made it to the other sideand transitioned your lifestyle.
But there are a lot of kids outthere that are confused and
scared and they don't make it tothe other side.
SPEAKER_03 (14:55):
You know, you know, it's as far as like sex, too.
I mean, I grew up Mormon, so youjust kind of grow up in sex not
really being a thing.
So I've found that a lot ofpeople who grew up Mormon,
including in my own family.
you feel more like you're whatthey call demisexual.
Like you don't really need sexto form a relationship and feel
(15:16):
intimate with somebody.
And really it's the emotionalconnection that then leads more
to the sexual side.
But it's like, I didn't need sexto be connecting with people,
which a lot of religious peoplejust assumed like, oh, you're
coming out.
You just want to have sex withmen.
I was like, that's not the needI have.
I just want to connect withsomeone the way you do.
(15:38):
When you love someone or whenyou want to connect with
someone, is all you're thinkingabout sex?
I mean, maybe some people, butlike when you decide you want to
marry someone and love them andspend your life with them,
you're not just thinking, Ican't wait to have sex with you
all.
It's like in Mormon, you canonly have sex when you get
married.
So it's like, you just want tomarry a man, being a man, just
because you want to have sexwith them.
(15:59):
I'm like, honestly, I'm like, Idon't need to wait till marriage
if I wanted to do that.
But if I wanted to marrysomeone, it's because I want to
spend my life with them.
I want to share goals.
I want to know what their dreamsand goals are and help them
reach them.
And I want them to do the samefor me.
I want someone to go to themovies with and go on a walk and
talk about life and share abouthow my day went.
(16:21):
And if I wanted to start afamily, that I could start a
family with them.
And a lot of the misconceptionswith Mormon beliefs, as well as
many other religions, is thatyou can't be...
a same-sex couple and be happy.
And you can't raise happychildren, but I've seen many
people do that.
I've met people whose parentsare gay, and they're normal.
(16:47):
People think, oh, you're goingto turn your kids gay, and look,
they're not gay.
They were just raised by happyparents because you're taught so
many things that affect how youview yourself.
These are all the bad thingsthat people are saying about
what it means to be a queerperson.
And I'm queer.
Then how can I ever be happy?
(17:08):
There's no hope for me to behappy.
And then you realize, wait asecond, they were wrong and they
were misinformed.
And it was also important for meto find the right therapist.
I went to a therapist for one.
They helped me to an extent.
But when it came to my queeridentity, I think their
religious views were got in theway of helping me see myself,
(17:31):
they still had some misguidedinformation about the queer
experience, thinking like, well,God doesn't allow that and God
can change you.
And it's like, I went on thesite and just talked to someone
anonymously because I was tooscared to talk.
It was actually BetterHelp thatI now work with, but I saw it
(17:53):
out and I was like, I can talkto someone without having to
show my face.
amazing because I'm tooembarrassed to show my face
right now and and it was likeasking me what kind of therapist
I wanted to have and I saw LGBTQand I was like I don't know if
an LGBTQ therapist willunderstand my situation because
I still considered myselfreligious but I was like you
(18:17):
know what I'll just talk to themand see if it's any better than
the religious therapist I'vebeen meeting with and I talked
about being queer and likedating the guy and they treated
it as any other normalrelationship and just helping me
walk through like a normaltherapist would and didn't think
anything of it didn't treat melike I was bad or wrong they
(18:38):
just gave me normal therapistadvice and I was like oh this is
so nice like they didn't getstuck on well you're queer or
you might be gay so we need tofigure out why you feel that way
they just got to what I actuallyneeded which was just help
working through my mental stateand my emotional state that I
(18:59):
was in.
And so that was very helpful.
And sometimes you have to trialand error with your therapist
even.
And I usually go on and off.
I'm not like seeing a therapistconsistently every week for the
last three years.
I go on and off when I need to.
I
SPEAKER_00 (19:15):
think it's important to point out that you reached
out for help and that therapy isYou can stay anonymous.
You don't even have to say yourreal name.
Artists at a local level or at avery high level, they're worried
about their privacy.
But there's a lot that you cando anonymously.
(19:37):
Even in support groups, youcould be anonymous.
SPEAKER_02 (19:41):
Really?
SPEAKER_00 (19:42):
Yeah, you could do online support groups.
And, you know, shut off yourvideo and use a different name.
Or if you go into an in-personsupport group, I mean, that's
different.
They could see you.
They only go by first names.
And oftentimes, if you go there,you don't even have to talk.
They just listen.
You could just say pass.
I mean, because it's hard enoughwhen you're in a tough place to
(20:03):
go to a support group.
That's like the last thing youwant to do.
It's just so scary.
But you'll find people there.
very similar to yourself, maybegoing through the same things.
And there's a sense ofcamaraderie and also just
understanding.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (20:22):
That sounds beautiful, by the way.
Anonymous, still feelingcamaraderie and understanding
because I think that's what'smagical about therapy and
support groups is to feelunderstood.
It's such a huge process ofhealing and making sense of
yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (20:38):
The whole thing about being seen and heard is a
big thing right now, but whenyou really think about it, it
means everything.
For someone to see you as anindividual listening to your
personal story and reacting tothat is really everything
because we're so different fromeach other.
But at the same time, of course,you know, we're going through a
(20:59):
lot of similar things.
When you're separated from thechurch, like the fears of...
Disappointing people and alsoseparating from people like your
family must have been a reallybig fear before you came out.
What was that experience likewith your mom when you came out?
SPEAKER_03 (21:20):
My mom was one of the first people that I let know
that I was going to start datingguys.
A lot of my decisions since Iwas a little boy were made to
please my mom and get herapproval and her praise.
So I was terrified to make adecision that could go against
what would get her approval ofme.
(21:42):
When I told my mom, she didn'tapprove of what I was doing, but
that was also the liberatingfeeling because I realized it's
not about getting my mom'sapproval.
Whether she does or not, whatmatters is I'm making the best
decision for me.
I know what I'm doing is right.
Even when I have the people thatI love disagreeing with me, And
(22:06):
it was an empowering moment forme because my mom at first said,
I love you, David.
I love you, but I love God more.
And I can't accept this aboutyou.
And God's plan for you is tomarry a woman and to have
children.
And that's his only plan ofhappiness and of salvation.
And I said, Mom, you know, Ibelieved all of this up until a
(22:29):
week ago.
So I get it.
But I don't need you to acceptwhat I'm doing.
I just need you to respect thatI'm making the best decision for
me right now.
And she did respect me.
She did not agree with what Iwas doing.
But again, I realized that's notwhat it's about.
It's not about seeking otherpeople's approval.
(22:49):
And even if the people you lovedon't approve of what you're
doing, then it's important tofind people and surround
yourself with people who dosupport you.
and understand you.
Because sometimes even thepeople you love don't
understand.
And that's not always theirfault.
(23:10):
My mom, finally, like after ayear of struggling and trying to
make sense of it, did come tounderstand.
And she even decided to leavethe church.
She stepped away from the churchand then she left entirely.
And she said, you know, I'vedecided to step away from the
church.
And I was like, mom, why?
You don't have to do that.
(23:31):
I know how much the church meansto you.
And she said, well, I don't wantto be somewhere where my
children don't feel loved andwelcomed.
And if you're going to hell,then we're all going to hell
with you.
And I wrote a song about it.
It's called Hell Togetherbecause I was really touched by
what my mom said.
And I knew she, you know,neither of us really believed
that if you come out as gay orqueer, that you're going to hell
(23:54):
for it.
Like I already received ananswer from God.
That wasn't the case.
And It was more just in responseto everyone else who was on the
outside looking in, giving theiropinions and saying what they
thought.
It's like, you know what?
If they don't like the wayyou're made, then they're not
any better.
I
SPEAKER_00 (24:14):
thought that's such a beautiful tribute to your mom
because I think your transitionto being queer, it's a journey.
And I think we also have torealize it's a journey for the
people who love us.
Your mom had to go through aprocess and a journey to get to
where she is today and allowingpeople, even if they don't
(24:38):
understand, to try tounderstand.
So I'm glad that your mom isable to be with you and have the
understanding that she does inthe sense that she just loves
you as your mom and wants you toalways feel welcome.
Now, before you came out, Didyou get advice from people?
I mean, how did you build upthat courage and then also know
(25:03):
how to respond to her when sheat first didn't accept what you
were doing?
Because she had a really goodresponse about the respect.
SPEAKER_03 (25:11):
Thank you.
I think I just spent a lot oftime thinking about everything.
It was a really big decision.
And it wasn't necessarily...
spontaneous.
It was a lot of thought.
I tried really hard to findanother way through to keep
going and just keep livingstraight.
(25:33):
I think I just finally had toaccept what my path of life was.
And I had to answer a lot of myown questions because it was
very hard for me to acceptmyself.
I had already asked a lot ofthese questions internally.
I had a lot of battles, a lot ofarguments and conversations with
(25:53):
myself.
And it really concluded withthat final prayer that I had.
And so once I realized I wasgood with God and my perception
of God, then that was the mainthing for me.
It was like, I thought the worstthing that could happen was to
be rejected by God.
(26:13):
And when I wasn't and saw thatit wasn't how everyone kept
telling me and teaching me I cantake on whatever whatever comes
next I can take on no problem ittakes a lot of internal work I
think but it's worth the wrestle
SPEAKER_00 (26:31):
yeah it sounds like a lot of turmoil I could see
that I mean as you're goingthrough this turmoil you can get
depressed you could also havesuicidal thoughts and I read
that you did have suicidalthoughts at one point can you
tell me what you were thinkinglike What was going on at that
point in your life?
SPEAKER_03 (26:51):
Yeah, it's sometimes like a lot to talk about.
Sometimes it's like still worksup a lot of the emotions from
that time.
But when you're taught thathomosexuality and certain things
are equivalent to murder, whichit doesn't say anywhere in the
Bible, but a lot of people liketo use the Sodom and Gomorrah
(27:14):
story in the Bible where it'slike, the city was turned into a
pillar of salt.
And they're saying, well, he didthat because of homosexuality
going on.
Which is quite interestingbecause it doesn't say that
specifically.
The Bible says a lot of otherthings that you shouldn't do and
people are still doing them.
And it's very odd to me thatpeople will pick and choose.
(27:36):
The Bible says this.
I'm like, well, the Bible alsosays this.
You're not supposed to eat porkand you're not supposed to do
this and you're not supposedto...
do certain things on theSabbath, and for some reason you
decide that homosexuality is thething that God cares the most
about, of all the things he saidto do and not do.
And they're like, well, Godchanges.
(27:57):
I'm like, oh, well, if you thinkhe changes, well, God told me
that he was fine with me.
But when people are so convincedthat you're wrong and they're
right, and you believe them whenthey say that being gay is the
equivalent of being a murdererand not worthy of even living,
you start believing that kind oftalk yourself.
(28:20):
And so you think, well, okay,maybe it's better for me to end
my life, cut it short, than tolive evil and be this bad, evil,
gay person.
And when you finally giveyourself a chance to consider,
what if they're wrong?
Maybe they're wrong.
And I'm going to trust myinstincts and I'm going to trust
(28:42):
the answers I got in my life.
over what other people think.
And that's when you can freeyourself.
You've got to care less aboutwhat other people think because
a lot of times these people arewrong and are misguided and
don't know any better, butthey're still wrong.
And you've got to do what's bestfor you.
And it can be scary to do thatbecause you care a lot what
(29:05):
other people think.
It's worth not caring what otherpeople think to give yourself
another chance and to keep goingand be free.
Be free from what other peoplethink and live your life and
realize how much happier you canbe because of it.
SPEAKER_00 (29:21):
Well, I'm so glad that you had that perspective
and you kept going and youworked through it.
Perseverance is reallyimportant.
And you trusted your instinctsopposed to trusting other people
that were telling youmisinformation.
You're really brave.
You've become so much bolderwith your music, your lyrics.
(29:43):
You know, just the tone of yourvideos.
You have the new song, Can ICall You?
Which to me is an example offalling in love with somebody.
Like the thoughts that you haveand, you know, wanting to talk
with them.
Can you tell me more aboutstepping into that new life,
(30:04):
falling in love, and how thatfeels for you?
Yeah,
SPEAKER_03 (30:09):
it's nice to let yourself feel love for someone.
and care about them and feelgiddy and butterflies and want
to talk to them, want to givethem a call and also show
people.
It's like I came out and yeah, Iwrite songs about my experiences
when I've talked and dated andgotten to know guys and fall in
(30:30):
love with them.
And hopefully they can relate tothat feeling because it's a
sweet, beautiful feeling tohave.
And it's that feeling that youcan relate to that I'm writing
about in the song is the same.
It's the same feeling.
For some reason, it's evil whensomeone does it towards the same
sex.
But it's so beautiful and lovelyand the best feeling in the
(30:52):
world when it's towards theopposite sex.
When it comes to people whodon't understand what it is to
be in a same-sex relationship orgay relationship.
But it's the same feeling.
It's sweet.
It feels lovely.
And it's really not anydifferent.
That's why people say love islove, because it's sweet, it's
(31:16):
beautiful, it's romantic, and itcan be really special and
wholesome, and even for gaypeople.
So I'm glad you felt that fromthe song.
SPEAKER_00 (31:27):
I did, and I had to learn about what it means to be
demisexual.
Oh,
SPEAKER_03 (31:33):
demisexual,
SPEAKER_00 (31:33):
yeah.
And I thought it was reallybeautiful, because it's all
about feeling an emotional bond.
before you feel the sexual bond.
And I think that's the bestbecause you've come to know that
person and love them, the good,the bad, and the ugly.
And that makes sex better whenyou get to really know somebody.
(31:57):
So I guess I'm the same way.
So you're going to be going onthis Earthly Delights tour
coming up in September, which isexciting because it's been a
while since you've toured.
SPEAKER_03 (32:10):
Yeah, the last time I was supposed to go on a pop
tour, I got a vocal cord injuryand I had to get a surgery done.
So that was a bummer.
So I'm excited to finally go.
And the tour before that wascanceled because of COVID, the
pandemic.
So it's been a minute since I'vegotten to do a tour.
So it'll be fun to interact withthe fans, especially now that
(32:33):
I'm in this new part of my life.
And I'm in such a differentplace now.
Before, I was very nervous andshy.
I still had fun, but still wasvery self-conscious.
And I'm still probably a littleself-conscious, but this time I
get to be fun and flirty andsexy and dancing and playful.
And the type of music I'mwriting lets me go there the way
(32:56):
I never allowed myself tobefore.
So it should be really fun to goand share the journey from where
I was before to today witheverybody.
And the earthly delights, likeindulging in what I thought I
couldn't indulge in before.
That's what they use kind oflike as a negative thing in
religion is like, oh, you'reindulging in sin and these
(33:19):
horrible things.
And I'm like, okay, well, I'mgoing to indulge in these
earthly delights.
And I hope people can also enjoyand indulge in the earthly
delights along with me.
SPEAKER_00 (33:29):
You were in the Joseph the Amazing podcast.
Technicolor Dreamcoat.
SPEAKER_03 (33:34):
I
SPEAKER_02 (33:35):
was, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:36):
And that is like Broadway.
That is like colorful spectacle.
And then I think about yourvideo, Cream Brulee, and how fun
that was with all the music andthe dancing.
I mean, I just see this being awhole stage show.
Can you give us a little previewof what the tour is going to be
(33:57):
like?
SPEAKER_03 (33:59):
Oh my gosh, yeah.
The Joseph That was my firsttime being in a musical, and it
was so fun to do.
And it was.
It was a huge spectacle and somany people on stage.
I think it'll still be fun tothrow a little flair in there.
I do feel like it'll be moreintimate.
What's fun about the musicals isthere is a lot of playfulness in
(34:19):
it, and I feel like I will getin a little bit of that
character on the EarthlyDelights tour, because there's
still a big part of me that'slike, oh, that's so unlike me.
It's so fun to get intocharacter, warm up and go out of
your comfort zone and broadenyour horizons a little bit.
And there will be choreography.
There'll be fun moments, playfulmoments, and flirt with the
(34:44):
crowd a little bit.
SPEAKER_00 (34:45):
I'm going to go to your show.
Oh,
SPEAKER_03 (34:48):
really?
SPEAKER_00 (34:49):
Definitely.
Are you kidding me?
I'm definitely going.
How are you going to maintainyour mental health while on
tour?
SPEAKER_03 (34:56):
That's a good question.
Physical activity is reallyimportant for me.
So like doing exercises hasreally helped me with my mental
health and making sure I eatbalanced as well.
If I had too many fried foods ortoo many sweets, it can make me
crash and it does affect mymood.
(35:17):
I can get pretty emotional,moody when I have too many
sweets.
And it's hard because a lot ofpeople will gift you sweets when
you're on tour.
I make sure I drink lots ofwater and sleep is really
important.
Sometimes it's hard to getsleep, but it's like, you know
what?
I get somewhere and if I didn'tsleep very much the night
before, I'm taking a napwherever I can.
(35:38):
Like even if it's up until rightbefore the show because I need
that energy.
It's so important to maintain agood and healthy mind to sleep
well.
And I think those as well asjust like taking breaks when I
need it.
and talking to people when Ineed to as well because it can
(35:59):
be a little rigorous travelingconstantly you're not at home
you're just constantly on the goaround people in different
cities and it can be a lot ofstimulation sometimes it's good
to just talk to somebody catchup with a friend and just feel a
little sense of normalcy and Bearound someone who gets you, who
(36:19):
looks at you just like human tohuman being rather than just as
this artist performer that theypaid money to come see.
I think it's important to justground in that way.
Just talk to people and have anormal conversation about life
or how you're feeling, etc.
SPEAKER_00 (36:37):
Okay.
Thank you for being involved inall these pride parades and
representing the queercommunity.
I think it's really important.
But there's also an attack onthe queer community right now
politically.
What are your thoughts on that?
I
SPEAKER_03 (36:58):
think when people are upset and stressed, they're
feeling a lot of pressure fromlife and just how things are in
their state or their city ortheir country, all the political
influences that everyone has topay a price on, or there's
unrest going on.
It's easy to put the blame ongroups that are a minority
(37:20):
because I think instinctually ashumans, we want to feel like
this enemy, this hero versus thevillain, like someone to attack,
to feel like you've conqueredand have a victory over.
You blame people who really arenot any reason for your
suffering or for your pain orfor your anger or for your hurt.
(37:41):
It's just easy to put the blameon them.
The queer community is one ofthem.
and just naturally I think anygroup that is a minority group
versus the general populationit's easy to put the blame on
them when really it's the peoplein power who are the minority
that are trying to keep theirpower and maintain it and say
well we don't want to be blamedfor your problems because we're
(38:04):
the ones who are taking more ofyour money we're the ones kind
of hoarding and hogging all ofthe benefits for ourselves and
So instead of you catching on tothat and blaming us and holding
us accountable, we're going toblame this minority group, the
queer community.
So you look at them, they'redifferent.
I feel like it's an easy way todistract and it's unfortunate.
And I hope people can catch onto that.
(38:27):
The main minority group is thepeople in power.
And they do everything they canto do smoke and mirrors, to
deflect from the way thatthey're treating all of us.
It's unfortunate.
That's how it is.
Whenever people come into morepower, it just seems like it's a
universal issue.
No matter where you are, themore power you have, the more
(38:48):
you want to take from everyoneand then say, well, it's their
fault.
It's their fault.
I hope people can see that queerpeople, the LGBTQ plus community
is not causing issues.
They're not raising your taxes.
They're not raising yourmortgage.
They're not making hospitalvisits harder for you.
(39:09):
Even though they try to blame itlike, oh, the trans people,
they're trying to get thegovernment to pay for their sex
changes and things, which fromwhat I understand is not usually
the case.
And it's deflection.
It's frustrating because it'slike, what do you do?
All you can do is say, you knowwhat?
I'm a part of the group thatthey're using to weaponize and
(39:30):
villainize.
And I just need you to knowthat's not the case.
That's not what I'm trying todo.
That's not who I am.
That's why you've got to makeyourself known even more.
to show I'm not what you'rebeing told and I've got to
defend myself.
So hopefully we can continuejust protesting and making
(39:50):
ourselves known, going to Pride.
I just did Utah Pride recentlyand they said Pride is a protest
to stand up for yourself andmake yourself known.
Because if you don't, then theywill easily shift the blame onto
you in a very unjust manner.
SPEAKER_00 (40:10):
Well, David, thank you for being a superhero.
Do you see my t-shirt?
SPEAKER_03 (40:15):
Oh, amazing.
Superhero.
SPEAKER_00 (40:17):
You know, when you speak out on your mental health
and you share your story and youshare your solutions, you've had
a lot of solutions that youshared with us today.
So thank you very much.
Is there anything else that youwould like to say about mental
health or anything on your mindthat you would like to say to
your fans?
SPEAKER_03 (40:36):
There are a lot of things that we're told to be
afraid of that we don't need tolike taking care of your mental
health like going to see atherapist or just to talk to
someone or to do more researchonline like there's a lot of
times we're taught to fearourselves and it's completely
unnecessary and be willing tobreak the mold to stand up for
yourself and to find theresources that will help you
(41:00):
live a happy healthy life andsurround yourself with people
who will help you grow andsupport you and help you feel
seen and understood.
That's what it's all about.
SPEAKER_00 (41:11):
Next up, we have psychotherapist Tom Kinnon-Hunt,
who spent seven years working atLos Angeles' LGBT Center as a
counselor and addiction recoveryspecialist.
Tom also works with HIV-positiveclients, gay men, and the
greater LGBTQ community.
(41:33):
We'll talk about topics fromDavid Archuleta's interview, and
listen to our expert sharing hisbest professional solutions and
advice.
I wanted to start off talkingabout something that I read.
It says LGBTQ youth are almostfive times as likely to have
attempted suicide compared toheterosexual youth, with 40% of
(41:56):
transgender adults reportinghaving made a suicide attempt.
And 92% of these individualsreported having attempted
suicide before the age of 25.
Can you give me your thoughts onjust statistics like these?
SPEAKER_04 (42:13):
Yeah, they're alarming, right?
And I fear that those numbersare going to rise.
That is my fear.
It's a grave concern of mine.
There are two significant thingsthat happened just in the last
two days alone.
One being that the Supreme Courtdecided to uphold this ban in
Tennessee, not providinggender-affirming care.
(42:36):
Unfortunately, of all places, weare seeing this, and I live
literally across the street fromChildren's Hospital LA.
They are ceasing theirgender-affirming care for kids.
The other thing that we just sawis the Trump regime, I call it a
regime, that they are endingLGBTQ suicide prevention
(42:57):
hotline.
So what are we doing?
We're going backwards with muchneeded resources.
I mean, even with the resourcesthat we do have, there's still
not enough.
These numbers that you cited areI can't remember a time when
they've ever trended downward,but I am aware of how things
(43:18):
like depression, anxiety,addiction, suicide, trauma occur
in greater percentages amongstthe LGBTQ population.
SPEAKER_00 (43:28):
Right.
And that's kind of what I wantedto talk about starting off.
Because of these statistics, Canyou tell me some of the common
challenges that queer youth andthe community have to deal with
that kind of drive them towardsuicide or self-harm?
SPEAKER_04 (43:44):
Absolutely.
So for a time when I did work atthe LGBT Center here in Los
Angeles, I was providing drop-ingroups.
They were harm reduction groups,meaning for addiction or
substance abuse.
We weren't trying to necessarilystop people from using.
We really recognize that peopledo use as a response.
(44:07):
How can we perhaps make it alittle bit safer so they're not
doing as much harm tothemselves?
So that was the purpose of thesegroups, right?
Specifically targeted for 18 to24-year-olds.
So a lot of those kids, and evenin broader community, they're
facing things like, you know,having been thrown out of their
homes, having been rejected bytheir families of origin.
(44:29):
How awful is that?
You know, these are supposed tobe your caregivers, your primary
caregivers, your primaryattachment figures, and they are
throwing you away.
They are discarding thesechildren as if they're garbage.
And that is such an awfulmessage to internalize.
You know, it becomes...
wow, there must be somethingreally wrong with me.
(44:50):
So it's heartbreaking and itstill continues.
SPEAKER_00 (44:54):
You're talking about the challenges, being unloved,
unwelcome.
I'm sure there's a lot ofbullying that happens.
And when all of this happens, itcould come to a head.
You know, in David's situation,his mother at first didn't
accept him coming out, butthankfully she came around and
(45:15):
and was accepting of him andloved him and welcomed him just
as a mother should.
But one thing I was wondering isjust the whole process of coming
out full of anxiety.
As a therapist, what is someadvice that you could give
somebody to think about beforethey come out?
SPEAKER_04 (45:36):
So the first piece of advice I would give is, is it
safe?
Is it safe to come out?
Who do I share this with?
Who do I share this integralpiece of my identity with?
Who do I feel safe enough to dothat with?
And it's not always safe, as wetalked about at the beginning,
right?
We're talking about somefamilies really rejecting their
own children, right?
(45:57):
So that's not necessarily safe.
Those kids, particularly thekids that I worked with, they
were homeless.
They were seeking shelter at theLGBT center, which they do
provide, you know, transitionaryliving and all kinds of ways in
which to help these kids.
So is it safe would be my numberone piece of advice.
Do you have support?
(46:17):
And if it's not at home, whereis that support?
Do you have other queer, gay,lesbian, transgender friends?
Are you involved in queercommunity?
I've worked with youngsters thatreally didn't have a concept
that there's a whole communityout there that they can actually
access, especially if they'relacking support from family,
(46:40):
friends, their church.
I know that was a big part ofDavid's story.
So, you know, safety and supportare probably the two biggest
things that I would suggest.
So also before we go on, I justwanted to comment something that
struck me about David'sexperience with his mom was what
you mentioned.
She wasn't accepting at first,you know, I love you, but I love
(47:01):
God more.
And it was so fascinating to meto imagine, you know, like, your
child is who you love most inthe world.
That's how it should be beyondeverything.
I was really heartened to hearthat she came around.
And then she, in fact, left thechurch.
And subsequently, he wrote thatsong, Held Together.
I thought that was so beautiful,actually.
SPEAKER_00 (47:21):
It's very beautiful.
And I think that's the otherthing was that each of us are
going through a journey thatmight take a while.
we might not be expressing thatjourney to other people.
Maybe we're keeping it inconfidence to ourself.
When David chose to come out tohis mom, we also have to realize
that they have to go through ajourney.
(47:43):
And she did.
She came to realize that shewanted her son to feel welcomed
everywhere he went and that shedidn't agree with the church's
beliefs.
And thankfully, she went withher son.
But I could see where there area lot of queer people youth that
are on the streets because theydon't have that acceptance from
(48:06):
their family.
What are some of the things thatsomeone can do to, I guess,
reconcile the beliefs of areligion that they grew up with,
where it's like such astrong-held belief?
SPEAKER_04 (48:19):
Yeah, it's very challenging and delicate on how
to approach.
So the way I approachtherapeutically, I'm not going
to say oh, your religion iswrong because it's a belief that
they may be very deeply held bythem.
That is the central conflict.
Well, I'm gay, but my religiontells me that I'm going to hell
or I'm better off dead, right?
(48:39):
What a horrible message tointernalize because that's where
you get all these kids goinglike, well, then there must be
something wrong with me becausethe religious belief is so
deeply held that it's very hardto disentangle that.
So I look at things like thesafety and security component,
but if you were to come out toyour parents, what do you
(49:00):
imagine that process would belike?
You know, what are the benefitsof you coming out now at this
time?
Is now the right time, right?
I just want to prepare somebodywith as many questions, you
know, They have to make thatdecision if they're going to
leave their church.
They have to come to that ontheir own terms, but I'm there
(49:21):
to help guide and maybe givesome gentle nudges because I've
seen, myself included, and evenDavid's story, eventually it's
rejecting of some churchdoctrine that really is not, you
know, it doesn't serve queerpeople.
It's not welcoming.
It's not loving as they claim.
When I was growing up, Duringthe 80s, the height of the AIDS
(49:44):
crisis, and there were no gayqueer icons to look towards,
like we have so many today, Idove deeper into the closet.
I went to Catholic school and Iheard those same messages.
My response was, screw that.
I don't want a part of thatreligion if that's what they're
telling me, right?
I mean, I had my own struggles,obviously, but as far as working
(50:07):
with those clients, we meetpeople where they're at.
As therapists, we meet ourclients where they're at.
And if they're still entrenchedin their religious upbringing
and they're dealing with thatinternal struggle, I want to
support them as much aspossible.
So it's a very delicate dance.
SPEAKER_00 (50:25):
Well, when you came out in the 80s where there
wasn't as much support orknowledge about the queer
community, what was the mostchallenging part of that for
you?
SPEAKER_04 (50:35):
So for me, when you have a child who grows up in any
type of minority, whether it'san ethnic minority or a sexual
minority, gender identityminority, what we need is
whatever that is reflected backto us.
In other words, like if you growup Jewish, you're probably
growing up in a Jewish householdand you're having a lot of
(50:56):
Jewishness reflected back to youby your immediate environment.
Same with blackness or beingAsian, but you're having that
experience reflected back to youdirectly.
Most gay children do not havethat.
So I grew up gay.
I didn't have gayness reflectedback to me.
I didn't have it in this family.
I didn't have it in religion.
I didn't have it amongstfriends.
(51:17):
So I felt so alone.
And the jokes at the time,right, the height of the AIDS
crisis, this is what I was upagainst was, hey, what does gay
mean?
Got AIDS yet?
Hey, what does AIDS mean?
Adios, infected dick sucker.
Like those were the messagesthat I was hearing.
So I dove deeper into thecloset.
While I never was suicidal,there were moments where I
(51:41):
thought, I just, I don't want tobe here.
And I can viscerally remember,like, I would punch myself in
the face going like, why are yougay?
Don't be gay.
Why do you have to be this way?
So that was what it was like.
SPEAKER_00 (51:53):
That's so tough.
That's so hard.
And then also going through theAIDS crisis, that whole period
where a lot of people passedaway.
What was the turning point foryou to say, you know what, it's
time for me to come out and livemy authentic life?
What was that trigger for you?
It
SPEAKER_04 (52:12):
was a process.
I was a little bit of a laterbloomer and coming out like
mid-20s.
What was the trigger point was Iwas attending University of
Maryland as a theater major andI was into acting and I had just
landed a gig, a significant gigthat brought me to Hollywood.
Unbeknownst to me, I had no ideathat there were entire gay
(52:34):
communities, right?
So here I come with these starsin my eyes and this ambition.
Meanwhile, very deeply closeted,mind you.
I distinctly remember my collegebuddy and I, we newly arrived
and we stopped to get money outof the bank.
And I look around and I noticedthat it's almost all men in the
bank, right?
Well, it so happened we stoppedin West Hollywood, which is one
(52:55):
of the conclaves of gaycommunity here in Los Angeles.
So I had this slow dawningrealization like, oh, wait a
minute, there's a wholecommunity of people like me
where previously I'd felt soalone.
So that was a trigger point intodiscovering that, yes, I am not
alone.
You know, by the time I came outto my parents, I thought if I
came out to them, would theyreject me?
(53:18):
I did not want to be rejected bymy parents.
They accepted me immediately,right?
They told me, you know, we loveyou.
But I didn't know that becausesexuality also wasn't really
discussed in my household.
So I didn't know.
I had no idea.
Is this a safe place in my veryown home?
SPEAKER_00 (53:35):
I'm so glad that worked out for you and that your
parents were open-minded andloving, you know, chose love
over religion.
One thing I was reading is thatyou help your clients to rewrite
problem stories.
And I could see where that wouldbe really helpful, especially
(53:55):
growing up maybe with feelingsof shame or embarrassment or
guilt or whatever those negativefeelings are associated with
being queer and living more in aheterosexual society.
So tell me about how you do thisto rewrite problem stories and
beliefs.
SPEAKER_04 (54:16):
So that's a form of therapy known as narrative
therapy.
So we all subscribe tonarratives, to stories about
either how we view ourselves orhow we view the external world.
And they're just stories.
They're just that.
It's the way in which I movethrough the world.
And that can come out as eitherthrough my beliefs, whether
(54:37):
they're religious beliefs,political beliefs, any type of
belief system that I hold.
that can come out in myidentity, my work identity, my
identity as a brother or ahusband, any number of ways.
But what is the story that Itell myself about myself?
Oh, I'm a good person that isempathetic and whatever the
(54:58):
story is, right?
Now, when we're looking at whatthese narratives might have been
and why we might want to changethem, well, usually a narrative
is formed as a means to navigatethe world.
And so what once worked may nolonger work.
And I'll give you an examplethat's really relevant to our
discussion today.
When I was in high school andcollege, I had a series of
(55:22):
girlfriends deliberately becauseI wanted to show you how not gay
I was.
So I would parade differentgirlfriends and inevitably, as
we're getting physically closer,I was like, oh no, I can't do
that.
So I would break up with themand then find the next one,
right?
But that served me.
(55:42):
That served to protect thisidentity that I hadn't come out
yet.
So that was part of my story.
Like, see, look at me, straightboy with the girlfriends, right?
Well, when I come out, like,that no longer serves me at all,
right?
So I look at the problematicnarratives that people might
carry into therapy with them, ifit's relevant.
(56:03):
I looked at what it was like togrow up gay or queer in a
heteronormative culture and howwe carry those things forward
into our adulthood.
SPEAKER_00 (56:12):
That's really interesting.
So you kind of find out thestory that they have and then
developing a new story.
Okay, let's really look at whoyou are today and let's start to
believe in that, like your moreauthentic self.
You know, with all theseemotions growing up, how do you
embrace self-love andself-acceptance?
SPEAKER_04 (56:33):
It's challenging because we are often entrenched
in our stories.
In addition to the narrativeapproach, I use a lot of
cognitive behavioral therapy,which is essentially just the
connection between our thoughts,our feelings, and our behaviors.
They all influence each other.
So I look for that distortedthinking or those
assumption-making.
(56:53):
A prime example might be like, Isend you, Mari, a text message,
and it's not returned to me,either timely or a couple days
go by.
And I start to formulate astory.
Oh, Mari, she didn't return mytext message.
She must be mad at me.
I did something wrong.
She hates me.
I'm a terrible person.
(57:13):
I've concocted this whole storyabout both you and I when the
simple fact of the matter is Isent a text message and it
wasn't returned.
That's it.
That's all we know.
Those are the facts.
Everything else is the brainrunning away with itself in
speculation.
And I'm rooted in anxiety.
It does run away with me, but Irecognize it early on now
(57:36):
because of the work that I'vedone both personally and
professionally.
And I tell myself, oh, Tom,you're storytelling again.
You need to just walk it backand understand.
Maybe Mari wasn't near herphone.
Maybe she got the message,looked at it, and intended to
return the text message, but shejust forgot I've done that.
So there's all kinds of otherexplanations, but our brain
(57:56):
fills in the blanks when itdoesn't know what's happening.
SPEAKER_00 (58:00):
Right.
And I think sometimes we're notconscious about those
insecurities that might comeout.
Or even when we're havingconversations, we can get
triggered by something and thenreact in anger or react in
sadness.
And it's because we're creatingthese stories.
There were so many things aboutDavid's story, but I want us to
(58:20):
see if there's anything that youwould like to comment on in
general about what he revealedand about his experience.
SPEAKER_04 (58:30):
I was touched by his experience with the suicidal
thoughts around being gay orcoming out.
He expressed how he wasreceiving these messages, and he
really had this realization,like, I'm perfect as I am.
And, you know, he embraced hisauthentic self, and I just have
so much love and respect andadmiration for that.
SPEAKER_00 (58:51):
One thing about suicidal thoughts, I was
wondering if you had theopportunity and you found out
that one of your clients wasthinking about committing
suicide, what would you say tothat person to talk them off the
ledge?
SPEAKER_04 (59:07):
So with suicide, it's a very taboo, sensitive
subject.
And the reality is we need totalk about it.
And I lean into it with myclients.
So in other words, just visuallyimagine a client in the
trenches.
I'm going to climb down in thetrench with them, okay?
I'm going to be like, I'm herewith you.
Tell me what's going on.
Tell me what are your thoughts.
(59:28):
What has you feeling this way,thinking this way?
But in just talking about it,that's really critical.
They feel like they'resupported, that somebody is
seeing them and validating theirexperience and being there with
them.
Oftentimes the suicidalideation, that can be tough,
that can be challenging, buthopefully this is just a
(59:51):
temporary feeling.
And oftentimes it is, and itsubsides, but it can be very
challenging to get through thosemoments.
SPEAKER_00 (59:59):
Sometimes these thoughts, they do go through
your mind, not just with LGBTQyouth.
I've had depression and anxiety,and it's actually part of the
condition to have some of thesethoughts.
So really to persevere throughthat, maybe reach out or talk
with somebody where they couldfeel seen and heard and get past
(01:00:20):
that strong emotion that theymight be having at that moment.
A big thank you to our musicalguest, David Archuleta, and our
mental health expert, TomKeenan-Hunt.
For more information on DavidArchuleta, visit
davidarchuleta.com, where youcan purchase his Earthly
Delights EP, and tickets to hisupcoming tour starting September
(01:00:42):
17, 2025.
Stay tuned to listen to a clipof David's single, Creme Brulee.
And for more information on TomKeenan Hunt, visit TomHunt.com.
And that's Tom spelled T-H-O-M.
Be sure to follow Check YourHead Podcast on your socials.
And please subscribe to CheckYour Head Podcast's YouTube
(01:01:03):
channel and visitCheckYourHeadPodcast.com.
for the largest online list offree and affordable mental
health and addiction recoverysolutions.
So until next time, be brave,ask for help.
and be persistent in finding themental health and addiction
recovery you
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:21):
need.
(01:01:46):
you want me in slow-mo slap melike a photo Your serotonin on
(01:02:28):
the nightstand.
I'm not even trying.
One night and it's taking mypraises.
Two times and I got you saying.
Three wood freezes skippingstages.
Oh no.
There goes all of your clothes.
Speaking words you don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02:53):
Check Your Head Podcast is kindly supported and
partnered with Sweet ReliefMusicians Fund, DBSA San Gabriel
Valley, Earshot Media, and LemonTree Studios in Los Angeles.
Visit checkyourheadpodcast.comwhere we have over 100 solutions
for mental health.
Be our friends on social mediaat Check Your Head Podcast.
(01:03:13):
Watch us on YouTube and supportus with a kind donation on
checkyourheadpodcast.com.
Check Your Head podcast issponsored by a 501c3 nonprofit
with all donations being taxdeductible.
Thank you for your support andthank you for listening.
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