CHECK YOUR HEAD Podcast "Reboot" of Sammi Doll (Kat Von D, IAMX, Bullet Height, solo artist) with Mari Fong & Kat Jensen speaking on Depression & ADHD Recovery for Mental Health Awareness Week, May 12-18, 2025.
Mari Fong interviews Sammi Doll (Kat Von D, IAMX, Bullet Height) on depression and ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder), then Mari Fong (former Life Coach for Musicians) discusses the interview with Kat Jensen (Producer, Social & Behavioral degree). Sammi Doll shares her facebook post while in the depths of depression, how the social media post affected her fans, her experience living in Berlin, Germany while in a crumbling relationship, and feeling stagnant and lost.
How Sammi was confronted by a caring and compassionate bandmate, feeling valued, how healing began with a move back to sunny Los Angeles and starting a new chapter. Being diagnosed with ADHD, the difference between taking medication and not taking medication, feeling scattered, and remembering 5 good things that happened today.
Kat Jensen and host Mari talk about the signs to look for with depression, what you can do to help yourself and others during a depressive episode, and how to show compassion during the pandemic. Helpful apps, teleheath, and texting that can be used to find mental help on the checkyourheadpodcast.com website.
“Be brave, ask for help, and be persistent in finding the mental help that you need.” *THANK YOU for supporting our podcast through www.checkyourheadpodcast.com and through our patreon.com page. Every dollar is appreciated, every listener is appreciated <3
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to the Check Your Head Podcast, Mental Health
for Musicians, the podcast fornotable musicians.
Come share their personalstories and their solutions on
mental health.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist and life coach
for musicians, and it's beenabout five months since we've
been in some kind of lockdowndue to the coronavirus pandemic.
(00:23):
And as a result of everythinggoing on in the world right now,
there is a lot of stress andeven depression.
But never fear, the Check YourHead podcast is here, and today
we'll be talking with a talentedvocalist and keyboardist who
plays for the industrialelectronica band IMX and also
for Bullet Height, herelectronic rock collaboration
(00:44):
with John Courtney.
This incredible musician isSammy Dahl who shares her story
of depression and living withattention deficit hyperactive
disorder or ADHD as well as hersolutions for these conditions.
Afterwards, I'll be talking withsinger-songwriter Kat Jensen, a
featured guest on an earlierCheck Your Head episode, about
(01:05):
how to recognize depression andways to help others and yourself
recover from this potentiallyfatal condition.
Now, we start the interview withSammy Dahl, talking about her
social media post in 2017, whichresulted in a surprising and
overwhelming response from herfans.
I wanted to start with aFacebook post that you posted
(01:27):
that you put up in 2017.
And you wrote a post thatdescribed how you felt in the
depths of depression.
And I wanted to know whatinspired that post.
SPEAKER_00 (01:42):
You know, it was kind of a mix between me being
at my absolute wit's end in thedarkest place that I had ever
been and also a friend reachingout to me, a bandmate of mine,
(02:03):
reaching out to me and, youknow, recognizing that I wasn't
myself.
Even though we lived countriesapart, she basically sat me down
and, you know, was verymatter-of-fact.
She was like, you are notyourself.
What's going on?
Are you okay?
Like, do you need help?
(02:24):
Do you need to talk aboutanything?
Because your performance, you'reso distant, basically, is how
she described it.
And everything that she wassaying to me, it just hit the
nail on the head in a way that Icouldn't ever explain it myself.
(02:44):
And it just unlocked a wholeflurry of emotions that I had
been suppressing for...
You know, it had been buildingfor years.
And I had never been confrontedlike that before.
So for me to be able to havethat release, you know, and to
(03:08):
have such a strong-willed friendthat was willing to sit there
and listen to me, regardless ofwhat the outcome was going to
be, you know, she genuinelycared about me and my state of
being and for no other reason.
for no other reason other thanshe could tell that I was having
a tough time.
(03:29):
I don't think I would havereached out myself because I had
become so complacent in thatfeeling, in that feeling of
depression, in that loneliness,in that disconnection.
SPEAKER_01 (03:41):
Well, I think that disconnection makes you want to
withdraw because you feel so outof place and so not like
yourself that you do want tohide away.
SPEAKER_00 (03:54):
That's very true.
For me, and I'm sure like a lotof other people feel, it's
difficult when you're goingthrough the feelings of
depression to want to reach outbecause you feel like you're a
burden.
And you feel like nobody wantsto hear your problems.
And you feel like you don't wantto bother anybody with what
(04:16):
you're going through because whyshould they care?
Yeah.
And those are all very normalfeelings.
Those are telltale feelings ofdepression.
SPEAKER_01 (04:27):
Right.
And especially that feeling ofbeing a burden on your family or
your friends and kind of feelingworthless.
And it's that feeling oftentimesthat can get people in trouble
and have them hurt themselves.
So...
(04:48):
You know, your post was sovulnerable.
I don't know if you mind if Iread it.
Please do.
It
SPEAKER_00 (04:55):
reminds me of, it's going to open up a time capsule,
but it would be great, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (05:00):
Anyways, it starts off, it says, I'm not going to
lie.
This has been one of the hardestmentally and emotionally
challenging years of my life.
This was the year I fell intodepression, a sticky black mass
of weight.
I feel it's haunting my everydayexistence and seems never
ending.
The weight is suffocating attimes and I pulled away from
(05:23):
updating a lot of my socialoutlets because this disease is
mentally debilitating andaffects every aspect of the way
you go through your day anddictates how you live your life.
You feel like a burden.
A bum to be around and unable totranslate your thoughts or
emotions properly because youaren't sure how or what the
(05:45):
issues are or why and definitelydon't want to be the downer to
anyone.
So for me, for many months, Isuffered in silence.
And you feel like nothing youare or do is important, so why
bother?
My behavior started to changeand things that usually would be
(06:06):
a pleasure ended up being apain.
And I've isolated myself from myfriends and family and pulled
back from social outings, laidin bed for hours thinking
horrible, horrible thoughts,stared into sleepless nights and
pushed away everyone around meas I allowed the hold of
depression to encompass me.
(06:26):
This is what this dirty devil ofa disease wants and I have
succumbed to it.
This has been my entire year.
I'm curious.
I saw the post and I saw howmany people responded.
I wasn't able to read all of theposts, but I was wondering, can
(06:47):
you think of ones that youremember of what people replied?
I
SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
didn't write that post to gain attention by any
means.
I kind of wrote it just as a wayto get it off of my shoulders,
just for me.
I did not expect the receptionthat it got.
And I was floored by how manypeople started to share their
(07:18):
story with me, how many peoplewere going through very similar
things, how many people wereoverjoyed that somebody else was
going through that.
You know, somebody that they mayhave looked at, you know, I'm a
musician, so somebody that theymay have looked at as one thing
(07:39):
is actually very human and goingthrough the same things as they
are.
Some people had expressed thatthey didn't quite know how to
articulate it themselves and thewords really resonated with
them.
It kind of helped them put wordsto their feelings.
There were a lot of people thatshared with me experiences that
(08:02):
they'd had in the past and howthey overcame them.
And most of all, there was justan amazing amount of support
that was shown through thatpost.
People talking to each other.
in the comments, you know,people not only commenting on
(08:24):
what I had to say, but on whatother people had to say as well.
And it was just this beautifulcommunity of people that were
all coming together to, youknow, build this sort of bond of
strength, whether they had beengoing through it or whether they
had overcome it.
It was just an amazing amount ofsupport, you know, a community
(08:48):
that I had never experienced orexpected.
SPEAKER_01 (08:51):
Yeah, you know, it kind of reminds me of what
happens when you go to a groupsetting or a group therapy.
When people are so honest, likeyou were on your post, I could
tell it wasn't anattention-getting kind of a
thing.
It touches them in a way wherethey finally feel like oh my
(09:15):
gosh, somebody else understandsand somebody else is actually in
the same shoes that I am inright now.
And there's a sense of reliefwith that.
And that's why I think it's sohealing to be able to speak out
because that outpouring of loveand support and expression that
you got is not only, I'm sure,made you feel good that you
(09:40):
touch people like that, but alsomade allowed other people to
express how they really felt.
SPEAKER_00 (09:45):
It was an absolute afterthought that anybody would
read it.
It was just, again, for me toset goals for myself and realize
that I was at ground zero of it.
And it turned into such arelief, just such a relief
(10:05):
process of healing.
SPEAKER_01 (10:07):
Now, one thing that...
is good to point out is thatalso in that post, you were
sharing some of the successes ofthat year.
And I think it's important tobring out because oftentimes we
have musicians that end uphurting themselves or committing
suicide.
And we're like, oh my gosh, youknow, they were just in the
(10:29):
recording studio and developingnew music.
And oh my gosh, you know, theyjust had this really successful
tour.
You know, it seemed likeeverything was okay on the
outside with these successes.
Yet behind, I guess behind themask is a whole different
scenario.
SPEAKER_00 (10:49):
Absolutely.
I've always felt that it'simportant to You know, take a
step back regardless of whatyou're going through and look at
what you do have versus what youdon't.
And although I was going throughthat feeling and suffering
through it, as I had said insilence, for a good amount of
time, that didn't necessarilymean that I didn't go through
(11:11):
great times either.
And it's important to rememberthe balance.
There's always a balance.
And when you focus on too muchof the bad, it's really hard to
see any of the good.
And it's quite a task, but it'ssomething that people have the
ability to do if they just kindof remove themselves from the
(11:33):
situation, the immediatesituation, and say, okay, look,
just even at the very basicprimal level, at this moment I'm
wearing clothes and I have aplace to live.
SPEAKER_02 (11:46):
And
SPEAKER_00 (11:47):
you just start off with the things that you're
thankful for and the things thatyou're grateful for and things
don't seem so bad on that sortof surface.
And even for a temporary relief,you're not so much focused on
the bad because you are tryingto remember what the good is.
(12:12):
And that really, really doeshelp bring the balance together.
SPEAKER_01 (12:16):
And it's work, especially when you're not
feeling well.
SPEAKER_00 (12:19):
Oh, yeah, it is so much work.
It's a lot of
SPEAKER_01 (12:22):
work.
It's very hard.
And to actually believe that andbe reminded of that.
What do you feel sort of got youinto that state in 2017?
What kind of led up to it?
SPEAKER_00 (12:34):
I think it was a mixture of a lot of things.
I was living abroad in Berlin.
I think that was my fourth orfifth year that I was there.
and I had an amazing group offriends, a great community.
I wasn't quite happy with whereI was, I suppose.
I didn't really want to livethere anymore.
(12:56):
I wanted to move.
My relationship that I had hadwas going south as well, which
it does.
You have to take intoconsideration that that is a
catalyst, definitely, when youspend a lot of time with
somebody and it's not goinggreat and it's kind of slowly
dying.
That's never...
(13:17):
a nice feeling.
So that mixed with not reallywanting to be in that country
and not really knowing where togo next and indecision and
feeling like I was stale,stagnant, not getting ahead.
All of these feelings, I thinkthat's kind of where it started.
I had released an album that wascaught in the cross-transfer of
(13:44):
power within the labels.
So it's not like the album wasbad, it just wasn't heard by
anybody.
And it sucked because I think wewere both looking forward to
touring a lot with that.
Because the album, I mean, Imight be biased, but the album
is amazing.
And Germany just wasn't theplace to release a rock record.
(14:07):
And just kind of feeling lost inthat and disconnected.
You know, the things I hadmentioned in that post, sort of
the things that did bring me joythat I knew I could always rely
on, like touring and music, Ijust didn't find joy in.
Oh, that's
SPEAKER_01 (14:25):
really hard.
SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
So it became, and that's because that feeling had
already suffocated me to wherenothing was really, you know, my
escape, I suppose, like musicis, being on stage is an escape,
really.
I wouldn't say it's escapism,but it's just kind of like a
channel into a different part ofme.
(14:47):
It's not compartmentalized.
It's just a part that I don'tget to channel very often in my
daily life.
And I love it because it'sadrenaline.
It's energy.
And once the depression hadtaken a hold of me, I couldn't
tap into that anymore.
And it was a real bummer.
SPEAKER_01 (15:06):
Well, I think that's the hard part.
I mean, one of the reallydifficult parts of depression is
that all the things that youlove and all the emotions
that...
you rely on or just love tofeel, like being in love or
excitement and even compassion,these are all things that get
(15:29):
muted or you can't feel themanymore.
And if you're a musician and youcan't feel the music, you can't
feel the joy in music or increating music, I mean, these
are...
You could see where people andmusicians can just feel like...
not wanting to go on, but it'sjust being persistent in trying
(15:52):
to find the way out.
So what was it for you that wasthe turning point?
SPEAKER_00 (16:00):
Um, for me it was, uh, I had the opportunity.
So, um, the band that I was ontour with was my band.
Uh, we did a short UK run andthat's when I was, when I was
feeling like, Oh no, like, youknow, I had thought like, I'm
totally going to go on this tourand everything's going to be
great.
But I just kept feeling worseand worse.
(16:22):
And then knowing that I had togo back to Berlin after that was
just crushing.
And
SPEAKER_01 (16:27):
this was with IMX or with Bullet Height?
SPEAKER_00 (16:29):
This was with Bullet Height.
SPEAKER_01 (16:30):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (16:30):
So I play in IMX as well.
And they live now in LosAngeles.
So...
They invited me to come overliterally like the day after my
tour in the UK ended.
And I text with them quite alot.
(16:51):
So they kind of knew what wasgoing on just from a surface
perspective.
But they know me so well.
They were able to see throughthe bullshit because they have
gone through so much with mentalhealth that they can see
straight through.
What
SPEAKER_01 (17:07):
you were saying, the lead singer...
Chris has also had challenges,and he's been open about
speaking on his struggles.
So that's great that you hadsomebody that had an
understanding and also wascompassionate to that.
SPEAKER_00 (17:25):
Absolutely.
It's an amazing support systemthat just Chris, Janine, they
are.
You know, they have helped.
I always like to say IMX savedmy life, but in many ways.
I mean, yeah, it helped methrough depression, helped me
kind of find who I am and who Iwas going to become and still
(17:46):
who I am turning out to be.
There's many, many regenerationsand reinventions of myself
through this band.
And this was just one of themany examples of it.
They invited me to come to LAand spend the winter with them
and prep for the tour that wasgoing to begin, I think, late
(18:08):
January.
Okay.
And we were going to record amusic video for the new album,
and they just needed some help.
And it was a great opportunityfor me to come to LA, get in the
sunshine, try to sort myselfout, see if it made me feel
better, see my family as myfamily all lives here.
SPEAKER_02 (18:28):
So,
SPEAKER_00 (18:31):
yeah, I got on a plane and got here and I think I
was here for about two and ahalf weeks.
And then Janine sat me down andwas like, you got to tell me
what's going on.
Like, I don't, I feel likeyou're disconnected.
I feel like you're not here.
It kind of feels like you don'twant to be here.
And I think when she had saidthat, that's when I kind of
(18:53):
broke down.
And I just released all theemotions.
Just crying and she was like, ohmy God.
She was like, okay, just let itout.
And I was able to just kind oflike, that floodgate, there was
like a dam that was holding itall up.
(19:13):
And there was like thisfloodgate of emotions that just
came like, pouring out of me.
And I think that's where itstarted because I had bottled
all of those emotions up for solong and didn't know what to do
with them or where to put them.
SPEAKER_01 (19:31):
So was that, you said, like the beginning of your
healing or the beginning ofrecognizing that, you know, you
need to do something about yourdepression?
SPEAKER_00 (19:41):
Everything.
Yeah, I think it was a littlebit of everything because I had
felt so...
in a corner for so long.
I knew something needed tochange in order to feel better,
but I wasn't sure what.
And I didn't know how to goabout finding it.
So just by being in a place thatI felt like I was valued for my
(20:05):
skill and for my ability and allof that, that Boosted my morale
quite a bit.
SPEAKER_01 (20:13):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (20:14):
And then I remember writing this post because she
had probably had that discussionwith me maybe like 26th or 27th
of December.
And I wrote that on New Year'sEve.
SPEAKER_01 (20:26):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (20:26):
Where I woke up and I was on my friend's couch and I
just started typing this all onmy phone.
I was just letting all the wordscome out.
And I can't remember how long ittook me.
But I finally felt like I had alittle bit of clarity.
So that, in a way, was thebeginning of the healing
(20:46):
process.
And also, I was able to kind ofput all of those feelings out on
the table and kind of organizethem like, okay, this is a
feeling that I don't want tohave anymore.
So how can I change it?
Because you are totally incontrol.
And with depression, you don'trealize that you are in control,
(21:09):
that you can be in control.
You feel like it's out ofcontrol, that you can't.
And once you're able to kind offlip that perspective and
realize that you are the masterof your destiny, only you can
control what happens.
Your drive, your initiative, allof that is what makes up where
(21:31):
you will go.
And if you need to get out of asituation, then the only person
that can do that is you.
SPEAKER_01 (21:38):
So what was the first step for you to find out
what would work for you to turnthings around?
SPEAKER_00 (21:45):
I think with the feeling that I had being in Los
Angeles, just being in a placethat was familiar and a place
where I felt valued, just forwhat I can offer value.
Whether, you know, whether it bethrough work or, you know, I
just felt more at home, morefamiliar.
And when you're going throughdepression and you're feeling
(22:08):
really alone and, like, youcan't relate to anything, you
will glom on to any sort offamiliarity.
And I think I really just neededto be around that first.
So that was the first thing thatI think started to help me turn
myself around was to...
(22:28):
You know, be in the sunshine, bearound.
You have no idea how muchsunshine affects you.
You really need it.
SPEAKER_01 (22:35):
Yeah.
I mean, you know, there arepeople around the world where
they have six months ofdarkness.
And it really does affect, youknow, people end up having to
take antidepressants or, youknow, have sunlight therapy.
But the other thing is, youknow, your atmosphere, despite
(22:57):
how...
how you might be as, you know,your personality.
If you go to another place, likeanother country, that country
has its own atmosphere.
And no matter what, it canreally envelop us and it could
affect us, affect our moods.
(23:17):
So I would think on top of thefact that you weren't at home,
you were also in a country thatyou just...
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
Never quite adapted to.
I mean, I don't want to sayadapted.
That's not the word.
I'm a very adaptable person.
That's why I can be a touringmusician.
It's like I never acclimated.
That's the word.
didn't acclimate in the way thatit would make sense for me to
stay.
So I kind of always felt like Iwas in transience.
SPEAKER_01 (23:47):
I see.
SPEAKER_00 (23:47):
And for me, I mean, maybe it's different for some
people, but I kind of, I hatethat feeling of being uprooted
and kind of just floatingaround.
And for five years, I loved itfor about three of those years.
SPEAKER_01 (24:01):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (24:02):
Because it was all new and it was all exciting and
everything, you know, living ina different country, I'd 100%
recommend it to everybody justso that you can get out of your
comfort zone.
But yeah, when it started tobecome negative was when I knew
that I had to do something, butI wasn't quite ready to find
(24:23):
what that was yet.
And as I had mentioned, like Iwas in a relationship that I had
stayed in We just became really,really good friends.
And I think our expectations ofeach other, he was also going
through a really, really roughtime with his depression.
But we didn't know how tocommunicate that with each
other.
So we just kind of, you know,for me, I'm an over
communicator.
(24:43):
And for him, he was a undercommunicator.
So it was, you know, we lookback at it, we're really great
friends now.
I mean, we always have been.
But, you know, back in themoment, it was very...
emotionally volatile.
SPEAKER_01 (24:58):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (24:58):
Just because, you know, when you're not
understanding the person thatyou're closest to, you feel very
much a stranger in your ownhouse.
So bringing it all back to how Istarted to heal, I had decided
after the tour that I had donewith IMX that I would move back
to the waited for a really longtime, you know, for my boyfriend
(25:26):
at the time to make a decisionwhether or not he wanted to move
somewhere else with me, whetherit be London or whether it be
Los Angeles or wherever, justnot Berlin, you know.
But he wasn't ready to leave.
So for me, it was like, okay,and having to cut the umbilical
cord of this relationship isdead in the water, that was a
(25:48):
huge...
it was very very hard as it isjust to kind of come to that I
mean breakups suck but then whenyou're depressed and you're in a
breakup that also really reallysucks yeah
SPEAKER_01 (25:58):
and it's scary too because it's almost like even
though it sounds like yourrelationship was kind of
polarizing because you know hewas withdrawing and you wanted
to communicate it's still afoundation that's been there for
a while so even if it You know,I think that even if there's a
positive change, you know, onethat you both agree on, it's
(26:18):
still a change.
Yeah.
And that just rocks.
It rocks your world.
It rocks the boat.
And you have to figure out howto readjust.
And that whole process is justuncomfortable.
SPEAKER_00 (26:29):
Absolutely.
And just by itself.
And frightening.
Yeah.
I think any sort of element ofchange, monumental change.
anything like that is scary.
But it can be done with therelationship thing.
One person wasn't ready to moveon and the other person was.
And that, I think, once I wasable to decipher that break,
(26:52):
then I could think for me andwhat I needed, which was to
move.
Basically move to a place whereI knew that I could get better.
And that means both physically,mentally, emotionally, all of
that.
And that was where it started,the healing started.
(27:14):
I remember buying my planeticket and then I had like a
countdown to say goodbye to mylife that I had known for five
years and move on to the nextchapter of my life.
And that is liberating, I think.
I remember when I had done that,I was like, This big sigh of
(27:36):
relief where it's like, youknow, any major change in life
is going to be hard.
It's not a walk in the park byany means, but the amount of
relief that you get when youhave the ability to look at it
from an outside perspective,especially after you've been
there for a couple months.
you realize like, wow, thingsare getting a lot better, you
(27:59):
know, or I made this change forme because I needed it.
And even though it wasuncomfortable to do, I am much
better for it.
SPEAKER_01 (28:11):
Yeah, I'm glad that you were able to kind of see
what you needed and kind of moveforward with it.
I mean, I'm so thankful thatyour friend really sat you down
and said, look, something'sgoing on.
Tell me what's going on.
Because I think sometimes wecould see people and think
something's a little bit off,but we may not say anything.
(28:33):
Or maybe we approach that personand they say, you know what?
I'm fine.
I'm fine.
And you know, deep down,something's wrong.
And I think sometimes we do haveto get into people's faces and
say, you know, what is going on?
How can I help you?
You know, what can I do?
I'm sure you appreciated yourfriend doing that.
(28:55):
Maybe it was kind of a surpriseto you.
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (28:58):
it was so uncomfortable in the moment.
Yeah.
Because I had to...
I had only ever been, you know,one person with her, you know,
which is like, you know, we...
We were obviously friendsoutside of it, and I'd lived
with them and all of that, butit was never a vulnerable or
emotional point that I had evergot with them.
(29:18):
And nothing really ever, everbroke the ice quite like this.
And yeah, it was verysurprising.
I was not expecting that.
And I wasn't expecting myreaction to be so...
strong, I guess.
What was that reaction?
I just got so emotional.
I couldn't even talk.
I think I just needed to cry.
I think I just needed someone tokind of say that it was okay.
(29:46):
And for me to feel that.
And it was a really, reallypowerful moment.
I had felt in those months thatnobody cared about And I had
mentioned that I went throughsome very dark thoughts.
Very much so to where it waslike, well, if nobody cares,
then yeah, what's the point?
(30:06):
And I would wake up and bedisappointed I was still
breathing.
It got quite dark for a bit.
But once she reached out, eventhough she was continents away,
even the people that I wasclosest to, nobody did that.
Except for somebody that...
(30:28):
recognized maybe, you know,somebody that had been through
it themselves and, and, andwitnessed somebody go through
their own journey.
Um, and, and she was, she hasgone through her own journey as
well as we all have.
SPEAKER_01 (30:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:41):
But, um, for, for people to recognize the signs,
it, all it takes is just payingattention.
It is important.
Um, and going back to that post,it, it, it really, really helps
me feel like people do care.
SPEAKER_01 (30:57):
I was reading that you also grew up having been
diagnosed and treated for ADHD,which is attention deficit
hyperactive disorder.
Was that something that you hadnoticed as something that wasn't
quite right?
Or was it something that yourparents noticed?
(31:19):
Or how are you, what was goingon with you?
SPEAKER_00 (31:22):
You know, it's funny you ask that, because I've been
on and off that medication formost of my life.
I was diagnosed when I was eightyears old.
Whether or not, I mean, I thinkmy standpoint is a little bit
different now than it used tobe.
I used to kind of just thinkthat it was an excuse for bad
parenting.
But I look back at my Becausekids just want to be kids.
(31:43):
But then I look back at some ofmy remarks that some of the
teachers had said in school andthe general gist was she does
whatever she wants.
She does whatever she wants andshe's not able to focus on what
we're doing.
And so looking back at thosefrom an adult perspective, I was
(32:07):
able to to recognize that, yeah,you know, it wasn't just bad
parenting because as soon as Ibecame medicated, the remarks
started getting a little bitbetter.
I started going from like asatisfactory remark to, oh,
she's actually very bright andshe does care.
You know, it's not that I nevercared.
It's just that I didn't so muchcare.
(32:28):
care about whatever they weretalking about right at that
moment you know yeah um and andand once i remember becoming
medicated i'd have to i'd haveto go down to the nurse's office
um i would take a pill in themorning and then i'd go to the
nurse's office where the thenurse would administer the pill
to me um for all of my uh all ofmy like elementary years at
(32:51):
least and i Then I got intomiddle school and realized like,
you know, I didn't take themduring the weekends or anything.
And I think that I was still tooyoung to kind of notice the
difference about when I did anddidn't take them because I just
wasn't so in tune withself-actualization back then.
(33:12):
You know, you're a kid.
But as I moved into my adultlife, And this probably had a
lot to do, not a lot, but itprobably had something to do
with how deep and dark into mydepression that I got.
For me, I am not happy unless Ihave all of my plates full.
And I'm spinning them.
(33:33):
You know, I'm not happy unless Ihave like seven irons in the
fire and, you know, a fullschedule.
And that's just because I am somotivated to be productive.
And when I was not taking themedication in Germany, so in my
adult life, I've gone on and offfrom taking it.
And When I was in Germany, theydon't prescribe that over there.
(33:56):
And I was like, I don't need it.
It's all fine.
It is a disease in that way.
It's a mental behavioral healthissue.
My brain just isn't able toconnect the dots on how to start
and finish one task.
(34:17):
I have several tasks...
And I start one and then I moveto the other one and task one
never gets finished.
And then I go over to task twoand then I get distracted by
something that's in the nextroom and then task two doesn't
get finished.
But then I realize that taskthree that I started last week,
oh, I've got to do, you know,it's so very scattered.
(34:38):
And something else that comeswith that is I get very, very
down on myself, even still now,when I feel like I'm stale or
stagnant.
And that is because I have thisnatural ability to just go and
do as many things as I canwithin the hours that I am
(35:00):
awake.
And that's the only way I feelthat things get done.
And when I am unable to do that,I'm able to recognize it now,
but when I'm unable to do thatbecause of one thing or the next
or I'm not medicated, my moodgoes down dramatically and I
start questioning everything.
See,
SPEAKER_01 (35:21):
that's really interesting.
So with the ADHD, when you'reoff medication, you find that
your emotions kind of do aroller coaster.
They kind of do.
They're not as stable.
Are you saying there's ups anddowns and sort of unexplainable
ups and downs, would you say?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:40):
Yeah, I mean, what's, you know, Adderall and
Ritalin and Dextrin, all ofthose, they're stimulants.
So what they do is they increaseyour ability to, for me, it's to
connect the dots.
But, you know, stimulants are,in layman's terms, they're
(36:01):
uppers.
So when you're going throughthis, like for me, when I'm not
medicated, I can coast justfine.
But if I hit a roadblock forwhatever reason, whether it be I
can't finish something or Ican't focus on one thing or I
have all these deadlines thatI've set up for myself and I
can't quite get there, you know,I start to get very, very down
(36:23):
on myself.
And so that's when it...
I can coast just fine until Irealize that I'm stagnant.
SPEAKER_01 (36:29):
I see.
SPEAKER_00 (36:30):
And then that's when the emotion plummets.
And that's when I'm like...
Because I'm unable to get...
into that state of realizingthat I can pull myself out of
it, but I just have to, youknow, oh, I just have to do this
or I have to do it in thisorder.
You know, this is where I start.
This is where I finish.
And that's what the medicationhelps me do.
(36:52):
It helps me just kind of puteverything in order.
But when I don't have that and Ididn't realize it because I
didn't have it for so long, thatis a huge catalyst for me to
have a crash, I suppose, anemotional crash.
UNKNOWN (37:06):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (37:06):
So you've come to really appreciate it.
And I think maybe part of it toois when people are diagnosed
with something, it takes time toreally accept that.
Sometimes our minds are like,you know, I don't think I have
that.
I'm fine.
And then it just takes a lot oftrial and error to find out what
works for you and maybe even tosee a pattern like you were
(37:28):
starting to see a pattern.
SPEAKER_00 (37:30):
It only took me 23 years.
I
SPEAKER_01 (37:33):
think that's really why it's important to be
persistent because sometimes youdon't see the answers up front.
Were there any cons to themedication?
Or was it just like, oh, I don'tthink I need it.
I'm fine.
SPEAKER_00 (37:46):
Yeah, it was mostly like I kind of went through this
thing in my 20s where I waslike, I don't need to be
controlled by anything.
And it was like I didn't likefeeling like I needed something.
And maybe that was just myrebellious blah, blah, blah.
But I also didn't really see thebenefit of it other than, oh, I
can do whatever.
(38:07):
I'm doing music now.
So I became a full-time touringperson when I became 20.
I think it was 22 is when I...
Maybe it was 21.
That was something thatinterested me so much that I
didn't need the medicationbecause I knew exactly what I
wanted to do.
But it wasn't like Pile A, PileB, Pile C, Task A, B, and C
(38:28):
could get done any betterbecause I was interested in it.
It just made it a little bitmore...
I had a little bit moreinitiative that was already
there because it was somethingthat really interested me.
And I got by on that for a longtime.
But there was a tour a coupleyears ago that Chris and IMX
decided that we were going tochange our whole setups.
(38:50):
So we were going from, I think Iwas using main stage.
It was all primarily, this isreally nerdy, but primarily like
soft synths.
So it was basically like acomputer and it was rather than
a standalone synth.
And that was all I was reallyused to playing in that band.
And all of a sudden, we weremoving to just strictly
hardware.
So I had however many, I thinkmaybe like a week, to reprogram
(39:13):
everything in a synth that I hadnever used before, two synths
that I had never used before.
So in those moments, then Irealized, I was like, oh my God,
yeah, it's not that I'm notinterested in this, but I
really, really do need that helpto finish task A to finish task
(39:35):
B in that order, you know, inorder for anything to get done.
And it did take me a long timeto kind of realize, like, yeah,
well, it's not like theydiagnosed me with this because
it was, you know, fun, you know,or just because, like, I was a
child that might have had a bitof a rebellious side.
But, no, it's because, yeah, Idid come to terms with it.
(39:55):
I really just need it tofunction, I suppose.
Okay.
UNKNOWN (40:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:00):
But at the same time, I didn't like to feel like
I needed anything.
SPEAKER_01 (40:05):
Yeah, and I think that's the struggle, is that we
all want to feel like, you know,we're fine the way we were born.
But I guess the reality is thatthere is some great medication
out there that can really helpus live our lives and make us
feel more like ourselves.
(40:26):
And, you know, like in yourcase...
get from one point to anotherand get to a point where you
really appreciate that.
SPEAKER_00 (40:34):
Yeah.
I mean, I'm very grateful forthat.
I mean, now that I'm living backin Los Angeles, you know, I'm
medicated now and again, and Ifeel, you know, things are
moving at a very fast pace forme and I could not imagine doing
all the things that I do withouthaving, you know, the aid that,
(40:56):
you know, that I have theability to have.
SPEAKER_01 (40:59):
Now, did you take anything for depression?
SPEAKER_00 (41:03):
Yeah, when I was in, for a little bit, yes.
I took Zoloft when I was ateenager.
Mental illness runs in myfamily.
SPEAKER_01 (41:14):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (41:15):
My mom was depressed, I'm sorry, she was
diagnosed with manic depression.
Okay.
And anxiety, I believe, and alsoADD.
Then there's my uncle and myaunt, and it just goes.
All my cousins, my sister,definitely.
We've all been clinicallydiagnosed with something.
SPEAKER_01 (41:35):
Have you lost any family members due to mental
illness?
SPEAKER_00 (41:39):
I have a cousin that's incarcerated that I feel
could have definitely benefitedfrom getting mental help.
I don't believe that theywere...
That side of the family was soin tune with the reality of the
situation before things got badfor him.
In that aspect, we did lose him.
(42:01):
He's still alive, but he wasn'table to get the treatment that
perhaps could have benefited himbefore.
I haven't had any history ofanybody taking their own life or
anything.
Everybody has been quite openabout to receiving help
SPEAKER_01 (42:21):
that's fantastic
SPEAKER_00 (42:22):
yeah it's it's it is amazing because not a lot of
people are able to have thatsort of support system i suppose
in their family if you feel likeyou don't have anybody that you
can reach out to you know umthere are so many groups out
there that i know and it mightmight even sound oh this is so
lame i'm going to talk to peoplei don't know it is so it's
(42:44):
relieving to know that you'renot alone in that feeling
whatever it is you're feeling Istumbled upon it accidentally
through my post and had anamazing reception and it really
really helped me feel better sowhatever your medium is in that
moment even if you're feelinglike nobody cares they 100% do
(43:09):
and If I could say one moreparting thing, a task that
really helped me, and I saw thisactually happen on one of the
tours I was with when Chris wasgoing through his healing and
starting to overcome hisdepression.
It was a really lovely exercisethat he did that he would ask
(43:34):
everybody to do, where at theend of the night, we'd be like,
all right, well, What are fivegood things that happened today?
And you have to sit there andeven if you had the worst day,
he would make you do it.
And that sort of positivereinforcement is all you need
(43:54):
because it's infectious.
So even if I was like, oh, God,my synth broke today and like I
might have been feeling fat orlike, you know, all of these
things.
Sat there and was like, I had agood dinner.
I had a really nice dinner.
I played an amazing show withhundreds of people that loved
(44:15):
every moment of it.
And that day was somebody's bestday they've ever had.
And I was a part of that.
Yeah, that's special.
Anything that helps you removeyourself from the darkness, just
for a moment, because you reallyowe it.
You deserve it.
You deserve that feeling ofrelief.
SPEAKER_01 (44:40):
Well, today I have the talented singer-songwriter
Kat Jensen joining me today totalk about Sammy Doll's
interview and also about what tolook for in depression and also
how we can help others if wecome across someone who has
(45:01):
depression or if you havedepression yourself.
Welcome, Kat, to the JensenPodcast.
SPEAKER_04 (45:07):
Thank you for having me, Mari.
I'm so excited to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (45:10):
I am so glad you're here to give us some additional
insight.
But first of all, I wanted toask you about Sammy Doll's
interview.
What stood out to you mostregarding her depression?
I
SPEAKER_04 (45:26):
really enjoyed her interview, by the way.
She is such a doll.
I mean, seriously, you know, youcan't not love this girl.
She is, you know, I didn't evenhave the feeling like that
she...
would have depression you knowwhat i'm saying and this is
really important becauseoftentimes people that do have
(45:47):
it you may not suspect you knowthey can cover up and they can
kind of hide their tracks andthey may they may um you might
not see it until it becomes areal problem
SPEAKER_01 (45:59):
well that was one thing um she brought out was
that the year that she was in areally deep depression, she had
quite a few successes.
You know, she was going on tourand created music and there were
things in her life that actuallylooked like she was doing well,
but behind closed doors when shewas in Berlin, you know, the
(46:24):
atmosphere, She was havingissues with a relationship at
the time.
There were a lot of changes thatreally contributed to her
depression, along with the factthat she had ADHD.
And, you know, that can often...
Depression can often be a partof that disorder as well.
SPEAKER_04 (46:44):
Right.
It's not uncommon.
There's, you know, more riskfactor if you have some other,
you know...
mental issue going on withinthere.
I mean, depression kind oflives.
Depression is sort of a, it'slike an umbrella term in a
(47:05):
sense, because there aredifferent types of depression.
I think we've all experienceddepression at one time or
another.
And you may have family membersor friends that say, oh, well,
depression is no big deal.
I get depressed too.
Just get over it.
And it's really not that simplebecause depression wears many
(47:29):
faces and people that sufferwith it commonly lose interest
in things.
It's difficult for them toidentify with who they are.
As you said, she had many thingsto be happy about.
many successes to be happyabout.
(47:50):
But when you're going throughsomething like this, you don't
identify.
It's very hard to feel, youknow, appropriately for the
situation.
You know, you want to crawl upin your bed and just do nothing
and disconnect when you haveeverything in the world to be
(48:11):
happy for.
And then that doesn't makesense.
SPEAKER_01 (48:14):
Yeah, that could kind of I mean, contribute to
the confusion and also maybe theguilt.
I mean, there might be peoplethat say, oh, my gosh,
everything seems to be going sowell for you.
How can you be depressed?
Right.
Drop out of it.
Right.
Or, you know, you need to stopfeeling this way.
I mean, if we could all do that,we wouldn't have conditions like
(48:39):
depression.
SPEAKER_03 (48:39):
Exactly.
I
SPEAKER_01 (48:41):
mean, we've got to remember, too, that depression
can be a fatal disorder.
And I say that because we'regoing to go over the signs and,
you know, what to look for,whether you have depression or
somebody else is going throughit, so that when you come across
those signs, you can dosomething.
(49:03):
And then we're going to talkalso about what we can do.
And, you know, right now we'rein the middle of this
coronavirus pandemic.
We have to get a little...
creative about how we show ourempathy and our sympathy toward
people that are suffering rightnow.
SPEAKER_04 (49:20):
You know, it's stressful.
There is a lot of stress to livethrough a pandemic.
And there's, you know, theeconomy and there's the fears of
family or getting sick orwhatever.
What do I do?
SPEAKER_01 (49:35):
Losing your job.
SPEAKER_04 (49:36):
Right.
Losing your job or being forcedto reinvent the And in an area
where you can't even reallybarely talk to other people in
person, it's difficult.
And we are going to see some ofthese things.
People might have, they mightgenetically have maybe a gene
(50:00):
that does carry depression.
We know that there is a strongheredity that goes with this.
And sometimes it will notexpress.
but it might express if you'reunder some sort of stress.
And right now we're all under alot of stress.
SPEAKER_01 (50:21):
It's there.
And do things, like I said, totry and be creative about
reaching out or having thatsocial interaction that we all
need.
Because we all know about thestress and trauma that could
cause depression.
But Sammy also talked about herfamily dynamics and her genetics
that oftentimes mood disorderscan be passed down.
(50:44):
Yes.
I just want to mention a coupleother things.
Like if you have a physicaldisease, you know, cancer or
heart disease, there could behormonal changes that cause
depression.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (50:59):
Even thyroid disease.
If you have a problem, get yourthyroid checked.
Sometimes people, that's assimple as going and getting a
blood test and they don't evenknow that their thyroid is off
and they're depressed.
SPEAKER_01 (51:12):
Exactly.
And puberty is a time whereoften people, Mood disorders can
come out during those times.
We also heard about the babyblues.
After people have a baby, theirestrogen, progesterone, all of
that goes crazy, and they canhave a bout of serious
depression.
SPEAKER_04 (51:32):
Right.
This is kind of why I said itwas the depression, when you
call it depression.
It's sort of an umbrella termbecause depression you're
talking about these symptoms orthe things you might feel, but
there could be other causes.
There could be coexisting, asyou said, ADHD.
(51:53):
There could be environmental.
We oftentimes talk about natureversus nurture, but this is,
we're seeing now that it's morenature and nurture.
So you may already bepredisposed to something, but
you may never ever have anepisode.
But you may be predisposed.
(52:15):
And you go to Germany to go gigsomewhere.
And all of a sudden, you'regetting really more depressed
than any of your other friends.
And you don't know why.
SPEAKER_01 (52:24):
Well, that was one thing she said was that she...
was taking medication for adhdon and off throughout her life
but in berlin they don'tnormally medicate for adhd and
so she stopped taking hermedication and she noticed that
when she came across roadblocksor challenges in her life that
(52:47):
it would you know more likelytrigger a depression and that's
exactly what happened um theother thing was that the change
in location just a change ofseasons we're talking about
seasonal affective disorder
SPEAKER_04 (53:04):
you have to acclimate to a different to a
different place and you know insome of the northern countries
you don't get as much sunlightand we know now that seasonal
affective disorder is a truething it affects people that
they don't get enough sunlightum oftentimes uh light therapy
(53:25):
can be helpful So, you know, butyou have to be aware of these
things.
Oftentimes we sit there and say,well, I don't know what's wrong
with me.
I'm just going to, you know,camp on the couch and I don't
want to move.
You don't know how to treatyourself.
SPEAKER_01 (53:41):
Yeah.
And that's the hard part.
But let's talk about some of thethings, the symptoms that she
had that were very typical.
Like for instance, you know, shetalked about, you know, a
hopeless outlook, just kind oflike feeling like a burden to
everyone.
And that's it.
It's like you don't feel likedoing anything.
(54:03):
And oftentimes you can't.
You know, your mind is notworking properly.
Everything seems difficult todo, even the smallest things.
And she lost interest in hermusic.
She lost interest in creatingmusic and playing music.
And that's when her bandmate,kind of sat her down and said,
(54:24):
you know what, something isgoing on.
You know, she noticed adifference in her personality.
And that's one thing to reallybe aware of is somebody changing
their personality, withdrawing,not showing interest, maybe even
somebody who was active onsocial media.
And then all of a sudden youjust don't see any more posts.
(54:44):
You may want to check in on thatfriend.
SPEAKER_04 (54:47):
Right.
You're right.
One thing I, do commonly sayabout depression in general, or
any mental illness really, isthat it's like a thief in the
night.
It comes in and it just stealsfrom you.
And it steals the thing thatmeans the most to you, which is
(55:09):
your creativity, your feelingsabout interaction with your
family or with your friends.
There's a definite change thathappens And it's really
miserable, but it is a lot likehaving a thief just come in and
take from you the things thatmean the most to you in your
(55:30):
life.
SPEAKER_01 (55:31):
Yeah, the things that you love.
And I remember when I was in thedepths of depression, I couldn't
listen to music anymore.
And that was so sad for me.
I didn't want to go to livemusic anymore, which is
something that I love, because Icouldn't feel...
I couldn't feel anything.
I couldn't feel those positiveemotions.
(55:52):
And that's the feeling ofdisconnection.
All I could feel were the bademotions.
And she was talking about thethoughts in her mind when she
would wake up in the morning andsay, oh gosh, I'm still here.
It's those bad thoughts.
SPEAKER_04 (56:15):
And Those are old tapes.
They're old tapes that kind ofget played within your head, you
know, and you start listening toall that chitter chatter.
SPEAKER_03 (56:25):
And
SPEAKER_04 (56:25):
that is what's so dangerous.
For me, I learned throughcognitive behavioral therapy
that the best way is you have torebut every one of those
thoughts.
You must stop those thoughts.
thought whenever a bad thoughtcomes in you must rebut it and
(56:46):
get it out of your head becauseit's lying to you depression
will steal from you it will lieto you it will take you to every
depth of despair and some peopledon't get out alive and yeah
SPEAKER_01 (57:02):
right it can be a fatal disease and um to not
listen to those negativethoughts, but also to be aware
that when you're in it, one ofthe symptoms is thinking about
death and thinking aboutsuicide.
And that's scary for the personwho's going through it,
(57:22):
especially if that's notsomething that, I mean, that is
not normal to feel that whenyou're healthy.
But when you are depressed, thatis something that will go
through your mind.
And that is scary.
SPEAKER_04 (57:35):
Stop reminiscing.
Yeah, they ruminate.
They come through intrusively.
And, you know, somebody who's onthe outside looking in would
say, but you have so much tolive for.
I mean, look at people likeChris Cornell or these people
that have so many things to livefor.
SPEAKER_01 (57:51):
There were a lot of musicians that at the top of
their game, they ended theirlife.
Amy Winehouse and Kurt Cobain.
SPEAKER_04 (58:01):
Kurt Cobain really comes to mind.
I mean, because that was just...
So brutal.
And sometimes the thoughts arevery impulsive.
And if you have ADHD and youhave trouble controlling
impulsivity, you may have ahigher risk.
SPEAKER_01 (58:19):
You know, other symptoms, having sleep problems,
feeling like you're tired allthe time but not being able to
get to sleep or sleeping toomuch.
Anxiety is like the...
evil stepsister, I guess, ofdepression.
And the anxiety and the fear canreally overtake us.
I mean, this is like not justworry, but it's fear times a
(58:43):
hundred.
It's confusing.
It's scary.
And it's dark.
But there are ways to get out ofit.
And that's the faith that we allneed to have is there are ways
to get out.
SPEAKER_04 (58:58):
I now like to use...
I use either Headspace or I useCalm or sometimes I'll go onto
YouTube and just like findmeditational types of apps.
And I tell myself that I givemyself as if you were actually
going to do commit time at thegym.
(59:19):
I commit time for my mentalhealth.
And this is what I've foundworks for me.
I have definitely benefited fromthat.
SPEAKER_01 (59:30):
Well, you know, some of the apps that you talked
about are great things to dowhile we're on lockdown or when
we're, you know, by ourselves,which, you know, oftentimes when
we're going through a mooddisorder, we want to be by
ourselves, but ways to reachout.
On top of that is things likeZoom.
I know the Depression andBipolar Support Alliance, they
(59:53):
have regular meetings on Zoomwhere you can speak your mind
and commiserate with others, getadvice, but also stay anonymous
if you'd like.
And NAMI, National Alliance ofMental Illness, all of these
things are on Zoom.
(01:00:13):
Yeah, NAMI is great.
And we have all of theseorganizations listed on the
check your head podcast.comwebsite, because I want it to be
in like easy, affordable waysfor people to get help.
Because, you know, oftentimeswhen we realize that we need
help, you know, where do we go?
And this is just an easy way forpeople that to get help.
SPEAKER_04 (01:00:36):
I had experience with NAMI because you know when
this first whole COVID shutdownthing took place and I had a lot
of stress and I started to findmyself getting some of those
negative thoughts again and justknowing that depression, mental
illness, these things sit in thecorner doing push-ups waiting
(01:00:59):
for you to, you know, be weakagain.
and it can step right on in andsteal your life some more.
And so I went ahead and I textedNAMI and it was a really good
experience for me.
I, you know, you just, you typein, I'm sure when they go to
your website, they can find thenumbers that you type in, but
(01:01:22):
you just type it into yourtexting.
And somebody responded reallyquickly to me.
and i was able to kind of letout some of the things that were
disturbing me that were you knowthe all the pressure of school
and all these things that werekind of scaring me at the time
and it was a good experience forme so there's there's even that
(01:01:43):
there is help and it works ifyou want to work it it it
definitely does i'm living proof
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:55):
A big thank you to singer-songwriter Kat Jensen and
to our featured guest, SammyDoll.
For more information on SammyDoll, find her on social media
at OfficialSammyDoll.
For IMX, go to imxmusic.com andhear their new acoustic album
entitled Echo Echo.
And for Bullet Height, find themon social media at Bullet
(01:02:17):
Height.
So until next time, be brave.
Ask for help and be persistentin finding the mental health
that you need.
Check Your Head is kindlysupported by DBSA San Gabriel
Valley, Lemon Tree Studios inLos Angeles, Blue Oak
Podcasting, and other kinddonors and sponsors.
Visit checkyourheadpodcast.comwhere you'll find more resources
(01:02:40):
for mental health, Subscribe$2to our podcast on our Patreon
page and be our friends onFacebook, Instagram, and
Twitter.
Check Your Head Podcast is a501c3-sponsored nonprofit with
all donations beingtax-deductible.
Thank you so much for listening.
Welcome to the Check Your Head Podcast, Mental Health
for Musicians, the podcast fornotable musicians.
Come share their personalstories and their solutions on
mental health.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist and life coach
for musicians, and it's beenabout five months since we've
been in some kind of lockdowndue to the coronavirus pandemic.
(00:23):
And as a result of everythinggoing on in the world right now,
there is a lot of stress andeven depression.
But never fear, the Check YourHead podcast is here, and today
we'll be talking with a talentedvocalist and keyboardist who
plays for the industrialelectronica band IMX and also
for Bullet Height, herelectronic rock collaboration
(00:44):
with John Courtney.
This incredible musician isSammy Dahl who shares her story
of depression and living withattention deficit hyperactive
disorder or ADHD as well as hersolutions for these conditions.
Afterwards, I'll be talking withsinger-songwriter Kat Jensen, a
featured guest on an earlierCheck Your Head episode, about
(01:05):
how to recognize depression andways to help others and yourself
recover from this potentiallyfatal condition.
Now, we start the interview withSammy Dahl, talking about her
social media post in 2017, whichresulted in a surprising and
overwhelming response from herfans.
I wanted to start with aFacebook post that you posted
(01:27):
that you put up in 2017.
And you wrote a post thatdescribed how you felt in the
depths of depression.
And I wanted to know whatinspired that post.
SPEAKER_00 (01:42):
You know, it was kind of a mix between me being
at my absolute wit's end in thedarkest place that I had ever
been and also a friend reachingout to me, a bandmate of mine,
(02:03):
reaching out to me and, youknow, recognizing that I wasn't
myself.
Even though we lived countriesapart, she basically sat me down
and, you know, was verymatter-of-fact.
She was like, you are notyourself.
What's going on?
Are you okay?
Like, do you need help?
(02:24):
Do you need to talk aboutanything?
Because your performance, you'reso distant, basically, is how
she described it.
And everything that she wassaying to me, it just hit the
nail on the head in a way that Icouldn't ever explain it myself.
(02:44):
And it just unlocked a wholeflurry of emotions that I had
been suppressing for...
You know, it had been buildingfor years.
And I had never been confrontedlike that before.
So for me to be able to havethat release, you know, and to
(03:08):
have such a strong-willed friendthat was willing to sit there
and listen to me, regardless ofwhat the outcome was going to
be, you know, she genuinelycared about me and my state of
being and for no other reason.
for no other reason other thanshe could tell that I was having
a tough time.
(03:29):
I don't think I would havereached out myself because I had
become so complacent in thatfeeling, in that feeling of
depression, in that loneliness,in that disconnection.
SPEAKER_01 (03:41):
Well, I think that disconnection makes you want to
withdraw because you feel so outof place and so not like
yourself that you do want tohide away.
SPEAKER_00 (03:54):
That's very true.
For me, and I'm sure like a lotof other people feel, it's
difficult when you're goingthrough the feelings of
depression to want to reach outbecause you feel like you're a
burden.
And you feel like nobody wantsto hear your problems.
And you feel like you don't wantto bother anybody with what
(04:16):
you're going through because whyshould they care?
Yeah.
And those are all very normalfeelings.
Those are telltale feelings ofdepression.
SPEAKER_01 (04:27):
Right.
And especially that feeling ofbeing a burden on your family or
your friends and kind of feelingworthless.
And it's that feeling oftentimesthat can get people in trouble
and have them hurt themselves.
So...
(04:48):
You know, your post was sovulnerable.
I don't know if you mind if Iread it.
Please do.
It
SPEAKER_00 (04:55):
reminds me of, it's going to open up a time capsule,
but it would be great, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (05:00):
Anyways, it starts off, it says, I'm not going to
lie.
This has been one of the hardestmentally and emotionally
challenging years of my life.
This was the year I fell intodepression, a sticky black mass
of weight.
I feel it's haunting my everydayexistence and seems never
ending.
The weight is suffocating attimes and I pulled away from
(05:23):
updating a lot of my socialoutlets because this disease is
mentally debilitating andaffects every aspect of the way
you go through your day anddictates how you live your life.
You feel like a burden.
A bum to be around and unable totranslate your thoughts or
emotions properly because youaren't sure how or what the
(05:45):
issues are or why and definitelydon't want to be the downer to
anyone.
So for me, for many months, Isuffered in silence.
And you feel like nothing youare or do is important, so why
bother?
My behavior started to changeand things that usually would be
(06:06):
a pleasure ended up being apain.
And I've isolated myself from myfriends and family and pulled
back from social outings, laidin bed for hours thinking
horrible, horrible thoughts,stared into sleepless nights and
pushed away everyone around meas I allowed the hold of
depression to encompass me.
(06:26):
This is what this dirty devil ofa disease wants and I have
succumbed to it.
This has been my entire year.
I'm curious.
I saw the post and I saw howmany people responded.
I wasn't able to read all of theposts, but I was wondering, can
(06:47):
you think of ones that youremember of what people replied?
I
SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
didn't write that post to gain attention by any
means.
I kind of wrote it just as a wayto get it off of my shoulders,
just for me.
I did not expect the receptionthat it got.
And I was floored by how manypeople started to share their
(07:18):
story with me, how many peoplewere going through very similar
things, how many people wereoverjoyed that somebody else was
going through that.
You know, somebody that they mayhave looked at, you know, I'm a
musician, so somebody that theymay have looked at as one thing
(07:39):
is actually very human and goingthrough the same things as they
are.
Some people had expressed thatthey didn't quite know how to
articulate it themselves and thewords really resonated with
them.
It kind of helped them put wordsto their feelings.
There were a lot of people thatshared with me experiences that
(08:02):
they'd had in the past and howthey overcame them.
And most of all, there was justan amazing amount of support
that was shown through thatpost.
People talking to each other.
in the comments, you know,people not only commenting on
(08:24):
what I had to say, but on whatother people had to say as well.
And it was just this beautifulcommunity of people that were
all coming together to, youknow, build this sort of bond of
strength, whether they had beengoing through it or whether they
had overcome it.
It was just an amazing amount ofsupport, you know, a community
(08:48):
that I had never experienced orexpected.
SPEAKER_01 (08:51):
Yeah, you know, it kind of reminds me of what
happens when you go to a groupsetting or a group therapy.
When people are so honest, likeyou were on your post, I could
tell it wasn't anattention-getting kind of a
thing.
It touches them in a way wherethey finally feel like oh my
(09:15):
gosh, somebody else understandsand somebody else is actually in
the same shoes that I am inright now.
And there's a sense of reliefwith that.
And that's why I think it's sohealing to be able to speak out
because that outpouring of loveand support and expression that
you got is not only, I'm sure,made you feel good that you
(09:40):
touch people like that, but alsomade allowed other people to
express how they really felt.
SPEAKER_00 (09:45):
It was an absolute afterthought that anybody would
read it.
It was just, again, for me toset goals for myself and realize
that I was at ground zero of it.
And it turned into such arelief, just such a relief
(10:05):
process of healing.
SPEAKER_01 (10:07):
Now, one thing that...
is good to point out is thatalso in that post, you were
sharing some of the successes ofthat year.
And I think it's important tobring out because oftentimes we
have musicians that end uphurting themselves or committing
suicide.
And we're like, oh my gosh, youknow, they were just in the
(10:29):
recording studio and developingnew music.
And oh my gosh, you know, theyjust had this really successful
tour.
You know, it seemed likeeverything was okay on the
outside with these successes.
Yet behind, I guess behind themask is a whole different
scenario.
SPEAKER_00 (10:49):
Absolutely.
I've always felt that it'simportant to You know, take a
step back regardless of whatyou're going through and look at
what you do have versus what youdon't.
And although I was going throughthat feeling and suffering
through it, as I had said insilence, for a good amount of
time, that didn't necessarilymean that I didn't go through
(11:11):
great times either.
And it's important to rememberthe balance.
There's always a balance.
And when you focus on too muchof the bad, it's really hard to
see any of the good.
And it's quite a task, but it'ssomething that people have the
ability to do if they just kindof remove themselves from the
(11:33):
situation, the immediatesituation, and say, okay, look,
just even at the very basicprimal level, at this moment I'm
wearing clothes and I have aplace to live.
SPEAKER_02 (11:46):
And
SPEAKER_00 (11:47):
you just start off with the things that you're
thankful for and the things thatyou're grateful for and things
don't seem so bad on that sortof surface.
And even for a temporary relief,you're not so much focused on
the bad because you are tryingto remember what the good is.
(12:12):
And that really, really doeshelp bring the balance together.
SPEAKER_01 (12:16):
And it's work, especially when you're not
feeling well.
SPEAKER_00 (12:19):
Oh, yeah, it is so much work.
It's a lot of
SPEAKER_01 (12:22):
work.
It's very hard.
And to actually believe that andbe reminded of that.
What do you feel sort of got youinto that state in 2017?
What kind of led up to it?
SPEAKER_00 (12:34):
I think it was a mixture of a lot of things.
I was living abroad in Berlin.
I think that was my fourth orfifth year that I was there.
and I had an amazing group offriends, a great community.
I wasn't quite happy with whereI was, I suppose.
I didn't really want to livethere anymore.
(12:56):
I wanted to move.
My relationship that I had hadwas going south as well, which
it does.
You have to take intoconsideration that that is a
catalyst, definitely, when youspend a lot of time with
somebody and it's not goinggreat and it's kind of slowly
dying.
That's never...
(13:17):
a nice feeling.
So that mixed with not reallywanting to be in that country
and not really knowing where togo next and indecision and
feeling like I was stale,stagnant, not getting ahead.
All of these feelings, I thinkthat's kind of where it started.
I had released an album that wascaught in the cross-transfer of
(13:44):
power within the labels.
So it's not like the album wasbad, it just wasn't heard by
anybody.
And it sucked because I think wewere both looking forward to
touring a lot with that.
Because the album, I mean, Imight be biased, but the album
is amazing.
And Germany just wasn't theplace to release a rock record.
(14:07):
And just kind of feeling lost inthat and disconnected.
You know, the things I hadmentioned in that post, sort of
the things that did bring me joythat I knew I could always rely
on, like touring and music, Ijust didn't find joy in.
Oh, that's
SPEAKER_01 (14:25):
really hard.
SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
So it became, and that's because that feeling had
already suffocated me to wherenothing was really, you know, my
escape, I suppose, like musicis, being on stage is an escape,
really.
I wouldn't say it's escapism,but it's just kind of like a
channel into a different part ofme.
(14:47):
It's not compartmentalized.
It's just a part that I don'tget to channel very often in my
daily life.
And I love it because it'sadrenaline.
It's energy.
And once the depression hadtaken a hold of me, I couldn't
tap into that anymore.
And it was a real bummer.
SPEAKER_01 (15:06):
Well, I think that's the hard part.
I mean, one of the reallydifficult parts of depression is
that all the things that youlove and all the emotions
that...
you rely on or just love tofeel, like being in love or
excitement and even compassion,these are all things that get
(15:29):
muted or you can't feel themanymore.
And if you're a musician and youcan't feel the music, you can't
feel the joy in music or increating music, I mean, these
are...
You could see where people andmusicians can just feel like...
not wanting to go on, but it'sjust being persistent in trying
(15:52):
to find the way out.
So what was it for you that wasthe turning point?
SPEAKER_00 (16:00):
Um, for me it was, uh, I had the opportunity.
So, um, the band that I was ontour with was my band.
Uh, we did a short UK run andthat's when I was, when I was
feeling like, Oh no, like, youknow, I had thought like, I'm
totally going to go on this tourand everything's going to be
great.
But I just kept feeling worseand worse.
(16:22):
And then knowing that I had togo back to Berlin after that was
just crushing.
And
SPEAKER_01 (16:27):
this was with IMX or with Bullet Height?
SPEAKER_00 (16:29):
This was with Bullet Height.
SPEAKER_01 (16:30):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (16:30):
So I play in IMX as well.
And they live now in LosAngeles.
So...
They invited me to come overliterally like the day after my
tour in the UK ended.
And I text with them quite alot.
(16:51):
So they kind of knew what wasgoing on just from a surface
perspective.
But they know me so well.
They were able to see throughthe bullshit because they have
gone through so much with mentalhealth that they can see
straight through.
What
SPEAKER_01 (17:07):
you were saying, the lead singer...
Chris has also had challenges,and he's been open about
speaking on his struggles.
So that's great that you hadsomebody that had an
understanding and also wascompassionate to that.
SPEAKER_00 (17:25):
Absolutely.
It's an amazing support systemthat just Chris, Janine, they
are.
You know, they have helped.
I always like to say IMX savedmy life, but in many ways.
I mean, yeah, it helped methrough depression, helped me
kind of find who I am and who Iwas going to become and still
(17:46):
who I am turning out to be.
There's many, many regenerationsand reinventions of myself
through this band.
And this was just one of themany examples of it.
They invited me to come to LAand spend the winter with them
and prep for the tour that wasgoing to begin, I think, late
(18:08):
January.
Okay.
And we were going to record amusic video for the new album,
and they just needed some help.
And it was a great opportunityfor me to come to LA, get in the
sunshine, try to sort myselfout, see if it made me feel
better, see my family as myfamily all lives here.
SPEAKER_02 (18:28):
So,
SPEAKER_00 (18:31):
yeah, I got on a plane and got here and I think I
was here for about two and ahalf weeks.
And then Janine sat me down andwas like, you got to tell me
what's going on.
Like, I don't, I feel likeyou're disconnected.
I feel like you're not here.
It kind of feels like you don'twant to be here.
And I think when she had saidthat, that's when I kind of
(18:53):
broke down.
And I just released all theemotions.
Just crying and she was like, ohmy God.
She was like, okay, just let itout.
And I was able to just kind oflike, that floodgate, there was
like a dam that was holding itall up.
(19:13):
And there was like thisfloodgate of emotions that just
came like, pouring out of me.
And I think that's where itstarted because I had bottled
all of those emotions up for solong and didn't know what to do
with them or where to put them.
SPEAKER_01 (19:31):
So was that, you said, like the beginning of your
healing or the beginning ofrecognizing that, you know, you
need to do something about yourdepression?
SPEAKER_00 (19:41):
Everything.
Yeah, I think it was a littlebit of everything because I had
felt so...
in a corner for so long.
I knew something needed tochange in order to feel better,
but I wasn't sure what.
And I didn't know how to goabout finding it.
So just by being in a place thatI felt like I was valued for my
(20:05):
skill and for my ability and allof that, that Boosted my morale
quite a bit.
SPEAKER_01 (20:13):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (20:14):
And then I remember writing this post because she
had probably had that discussionwith me maybe like 26th or 27th
of December.
And I wrote that on New Year'sEve.
SPEAKER_01 (20:26):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (20:26):
Where I woke up and I was on my friend's couch and I
just started typing this all onmy phone.
I was just letting all the wordscome out.
And I can't remember how long ittook me.
But I finally felt like I had alittle bit of clarity.
So that, in a way, was thebeginning of the healing
(20:46):
process.
And also, I was able to kind ofput all of those feelings out on
the table and kind of organizethem like, okay, this is a
feeling that I don't want tohave anymore.
So how can I change it?
Because you are totally incontrol.
And with depression, you don'trealize that you are in control,
(21:09):
that you can be in control.
You feel like it's out ofcontrol, that you can't.
And once you're able to kind offlip that perspective and
realize that you are the masterof your destiny, only you can
control what happens.
Your drive, your initiative, allof that is what makes up where
(21:31):
you will go.
And if you need to get out of asituation, then the only person
that can do that is you.
SPEAKER_01 (21:38):
So what was the first step for you to find out
what would work for you to turnthings around?
SPEAKER_00 (21:45):
I think with the feeling that I had being in Los
Angeles, just being in a placethat was familiar and a place
where I felt valued, just forwhat I can offer value.
Whether, you know, whether it bethrough work or, you know, I
just felt more at home, morefamiliar.
And when you're going throughdepression and you're feeling
(22:08):
really alone and, like, youcan't relate to anything, you
will glom on to any sort offamiliarity.
And I think I really just neededto be around that first.
So that was the first thing thatI think started to help me turn
myself around was to...
(22:28):
You know, be in the sunshine, bearound.
You have no idea how muchsunshine affects you.
You really need it.
SPEAKER_01 (22:35):
Yeah.
I mean, you know, there arepeople around the world where
they have six months ofdarkness.
And it really does affect, youknow, people end up having to
take antidepressants or, youknow, have sunlight therapy.
But the other thing is, youknow, your atmosphere, despite
(22:57):
how...
how you might be as, you know,your personality.
If you go to another place, likeanother country, that country
has its own atmosphere.
And no matter what, it canreally envelop us and it could
affect us, affect our moods.
(23:17):
So I would think on top of thefact that you weren't at home,
you were also in a country thatyou just...
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
Never quite adapted to.
I mean, I don't want to sayadapted.
That's not the word.
I'm a very adaptable person.
That's why I can be a touringmusician.
It's like I never acclimated.
That's the word.
didn't acclimate in the way thatit would make sense for me to
stay.
So I kind of always felt like Iwas in transience.
SPEAKER_01 (23:47):
I see.
SPEAKER_00 (23:47):
And for me, I mean, maybe it's different for some
people, but I kind of, I hatethat feeling of being uprooted
and kind of just floatingaround.
And for five years, I loved itfor about three of those years.
SPEAKER_01 (24:01):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (24:02):
Because it was all new and it was all exciting and
everything, you know, living ina different country, I'd 100%
recommend it to everybody justso that you can get out of your
comfort zone.
But yeah, when it started tobecome negative was when I knew
that I had to do something, butI wasn't quite ready to find
(24:23):
what that was yet.
And as I had mentioned, like Iwas in a relationship that I had
stayed in We just became really,really good friends.
And I think our expectations ofeach other, he was also going
through a really, really roughtime with his depression.
But we didn't know how tocommunicate that with each
other.
So we just kind of, you know,for me, I'm an over
communicator.
(24:43):
And for him, he was a undercommunicator.
So it was, you know, we lookback at it, we're really great
friends now.
I mean, we always have been.
But, you know, back in themoment, it was very...
emotionally volatile.
SPEAKER_01 (24:58):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (24:58):
Just because, you know, when you're not
understanding the person thatyou're closest to, you feel very
much a stranger in your ownhouse.
So bringing it all back to how Istarted to heal, I had decided
after the tour that I had donewith IMX that I would move back
to the waited for a really longtime, you know, for my boyfriend
(25:26):
at the time to make a decisionwhether or not he wanted to move
somewhere else with me, whetherit be London or whether it be
Los Angeles or wherever, justnot Berlin, you know.
But he wasn't ready to leave.
So for me, it was like, okay,and having to cut the umbilical
cord of this relationship isdead in the water, that was a
(25:48):
huge...
it was very very hard as it isjust to kind of come to that I
mean breakups suck but then whenyou're depressed and you're in a
breakup that also really reallysucks yeah
SPEAKER_01 (25:58):
and it's scary too because it's almost like even
though it sounds like yourrelationship was kind of
polarizing because you know hewas withdrawing and you wanted
to communicate it's still afoundation that's been there for
a while so even if it You know,I think that even if there's a
positive change, you know, onethat you both agree on, it's
(26:18):
still a change.
Yeah.
And that just rocks.
It rocks your world.
It rocks the boat.
And you have to figure out howto readjust.
And that whole process is justuncomfortable.
SPEAKER_00 (26:29):
Absolutely.
And just by itself.
And frightening.
Yeah.
I think any sort of element ofchange, monumental change.
anything like that is scary.
But it can be done with therelationship thing.
One person wasn't ready to moveon and the other person was.
And that, I think, once I wasable to decipher that break,
(26:52):
then I could think for me andwhat I needed, which was to
move.
Basically move to a place whereI knew that I could get better.
And that means both physically,mentally, emotionally, all of
that.
And that was where it started,the healing started.
(27:14):
I remember buying my planeticket and then I had like a
countdown to say goodbye to mylife that I had known for five
years and move on to the nextchapter of my life.
And that is liberating, I think.
I remember when I had done that,I was like, This big sigh of
(27:36):
relief where it's like, youknow, any major change in life
is going to be hard.
It's not a walk in the park byany means, but the amount of
relief that you get when youhave the ability to look at it
from an outside perspective,especially after you've been
there for a couple months.
you realize like, wow, thingsare getting a lot better, you
(27:59):
know, or I made this change forme because I needed it.
And even though it wasuncomfortable to do, I am much
better for it.
SPEAKER_01 (28:11):
Yeah, I'm glad that you were able to kind of see
what you needed and kind of moveforward with it.
I mean, I'm so thankful thatyour friend really sat you down
and said, look, something'sgoing on.
Tell me what's going on.
Because I think sometimes wecould see people and think
something's a little bit off,but we may not say anything.
(28:33):
Or maybe we approach that personand they say, you know what?
I'm fine.
I'm fine.
And you know, deep down,something's wrong.
And I think sometimes we do haveto get into people's faces and
say, you know, what is going on?
How can I help you?
You know, what can I do?
I'm sure you appreciated yourfriend doing that.
(28:55):
Maybe it was kind of a surpriseto you.
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (28:58):
it was so uncomfortable in the moment.
Yeah.
Because I had to...
I had only ever been, you know,one person with her, you know,
which is like, you know, we...
We were obviously friendsoutside of it, and I'd lived
with them and all of that, butit was never a vulnerable or
emotional point that I had evergot with them.
(29:18):
And nothing really ever, everbroke the ice quite like this.
And yeah, it was verysurprising.
I was not expecting that.
And I wasn't expecting myreaction to be so...
strong, I guess.
What was that reaction?
I just got so emotional.
I couldn't even talk.
I think I just needed to cry.
I think I just needed someone tokind of say that it was okay.
(29:46):
And for me to feel that.
And it was a really, reallypowerful moment.
I had felt in those months thatnobody cared about And I had
mentioned that I went throughsome very dark thoughts.
Very much so to where it waslike, well, if nobody cares,
then yeah, what's the point?
(30:06):
And I would wake up and bedisappointed I was still
breathing.
It got quite dark for a bit.
But once she reached out, eventhough she was continents away,
even the people that I wasclosest to, nobody did that.
Except for somebody that...
(30:28):
recognized maybe, you know,somebody that had been through
it themselves and, and, andwitnessed somebody go through
their own journey.
Um, and, and she was, she hasgone through her own journey as
well as we all have.
SPEAKER_01 (30:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:41):
But, um, for, for people to recognize the signs,
it, all it takes is just payingattention.
It is important.
Um, and going back to that post,it, it, it really, really helps
me feel like people do care.
SPEAKER_01 (30:57):
I was reading that you also grew up having been
diagnosed and treated for ADHD,which is attention deficit
hyperactive disorder.
Was that something that you hadnoticed as something that wasn't
quite right?
Or was it something that yourparents noticed?
(31:19):
Or how are you, what was goingon with you?
SPEAKER_00 (31:22):
You know, it's funny you ask that, because I've been
on and off that medication formost of my life.
I was diagnosed when I was eightyears old.
Whether or not, I mean, I thinkmy standpoint is a little bit
different now than it used tobe.
I used to kind of just thinkthat it was an excuse for bad
parenting.
But I look back at my Becausekids just want to be kids.
(31:43):
But then I look back at some ofmy remarks that some of the
teachers had said in school andthe general gist was she does
whatever she wants.
She does whatever she wants andshe's not able to focus on what
we're doing.
And so looking back at thosefrom an adult perspective, I was
(32:07):
able to to recognize that, yeah,you know, it wasn't just bad
parenting because as soon as Ibecame medicated, the remarks
started getting a little bitbetter.
I started going from like asatisfactory remark to, oh,
she's actually very bright andshe does care.
You know, it's not that I nevercared.
It's just that I didn't so muchcare.
(32:28):
care about whatever they weretalking about right at that
moment you know yeah um and andand once i remember becoming
medicated i'd have to i'd haveto go down to the nurse's office
um i would take a pill in themorning and then i'd go to the
nurse's office where the thenurse would administer the pill
to me um for all of my uh all ofmy like elementary years at
(32:51):
least and i Then I got intomiddle school and realized like,
you know, I didn't take themduring the weekends or anything.
And I think that I was still tooyoung to kind of notice the
difference about when I did anddidn't take them because I just
wasn't so in tune withself-actualization back then.
(33:12):
You know, you're a kid.
But as I moved into my adultlife, And this probably had a
lot to do, not a lot, but itprobably had something to do
with how deep and dark into mydepression that I got.
For me, I am not happy unless Ihave all of my plates full.
And I'm spinning them.
(33:33):
You know, I'm not happy unless Ihave like seven irons in the
fire and, you know, a fullschedule.
And that's just because I am somotivated to be productive.
And when I was not taking themedication in Germany, so in my
adult life, I've gone on and offfrom taking it.
And When I was in Germany, theydon't prescribe that over there.
(33:56):
And I was like, I don't need it.
It's all fine.
It is a disease in that way.
It's a mental behavioral healthissue.
My brain just isn't able toconnect the dots on how to start
and finish one task.
(34:17):
I have several tasks...
And I start one and then I moveto the other one and task one
never gets finished.
And then I go over to task twoand then I get distracted by
something that's in the nextroom and then task two doesn't
get finished.
But then I realize that taskthree that I started last week,
oh, I've got to do, you know,it's so very scattered.
(34:38):
And something else that comeswith that is I get very, very
down on myself, even still now,when I feel like I'm stale or
stagnant.
And that is because I have thisnatural ability to just go and
do as many things as I canwithin the hours that I am
(35:00):
awake.
And that's the only way I feelthat things get done.
And when I am unable to do that,I'm able to recognize it now,
but when I'm unable to do thatbecause of one thing or the next
or I'm not medicated, my moodgoes down dramatically and I
start questioning everything.
See,
SPEAKER_01 (35:21):
that's really interesting.
So with the ADHD, when you'reoff medication, you find that
your emotions kind of do aroller coaster.
They kind of do.
They're not as stable.
Are you saying there's ups anddowns and sort of unexplainable
ups and downs, would you say?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:40):
Yeah, I mean, what's, you know, Adderall and
Ritalin and Dextrin, all ofthose, they're stimulants.
So what they do is they increaseyour ability to, for me, it's to
connect the dots.
But, you know, stimulants are,in layman's terms, they're
(36:01):
uppers.
So when you're going throughthis, like for me, when I'm not
medicated, I can coast justfine.
But if I hit a roadblock forwhatever reason, whether it be I
can't finish something or Ican't focus on one thing or I
have all these deadlines thatI've set up for myself and I
can't quite get there, you know,I start to get very, very down
(36:23):
on myself.
And so that's when it...
I can coast just fine until Irealize that I'm stagnant.
SPEAKER_01 (36:29):
I see.
SPEAKER_00 (36:30):
And then that's when the emotion plummets.
And that's when I'm like...
Because I'm unable to get...
into that state of realizingthat I can pull myself out of
it, but I just have to, youknow, oh, I just have to do this
or I have to do it in thisorder.
You know, this is where I start.
This is where I finish.
And that's what the medicationhelps me do.
(36:52):
It helps me just kind of puteverything in order.
But when I don't have that and Ididn't realize it because I
didn't have it for so long, thatis a huge catalyst for me to
have a crash, I suppose, anemotional crash.
UNKNOWN (37:06):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (37:06):
So you've come to really appreciate it.
And I think maybe part of it toois when people are diagnosed
with something, it takes time toreally accept that.
Sometimes our minds are like,you know, I don't think I have
that.
I'm fine.
And then it just takes a lot oftrial and error to find out what
works for you and maybe even tosee a pattern like you were
(37:28):
starting to see a pattern.
SPEAKER_00 (37:30):
It only took me 23 years.
I
SPEAKER_01 (37:33):
think that's really why it's important to be
persistent because sometimes youdon't see the answers up front.
Were there any cons to themedication?
Or was it just like, oh, I don'tthink I need it.
I'm fine.
SPEAKER_00 (37:46):
Yeah, it was mostly like I kind of went through this
thing in my 20s where I waslike, I don't need to be
controlled by anything.
And it was like I didn't likefeeling like I needed something.
And maybe that was just myrebellious blah, blah, blah.
But I also didn't really see thebenefit of it other than, oh, I
can do whatever.
(38:07):
I'm doing music now.
So I became a full-time touringperson when I became 20.
I think it was 22 is when I...
Maybe it was 21.
That was something thatinterested me so much that I
didn't need the medicationbecause I knew exactly what I
wanted to do.
But it wasn't like Pile A, PileB, Pile C, Task A, B, and C
(38:28):
could get done any betterbecause I was interested in it.
It just made it a little bitmore...
I had a little bit moreinitiative that was already
there because it was somethingthat really interested me.
And I got by on that for a longtime.
But there was a tour a coupleyears ago that Chris and IMX
decided that we were going tochange our whole setups.
(38:50):
So we were going from, I think Iwas using main stage.
It was all primarily, this isreally nerdy, but primarily like
soft synths.
So it was basically like acomputer and it was rather than
a standalone synth.
And that was all I was reallyused to playing in that band.
And all of a sudden, we weremoving to just strictly
hardware.
So I had however many, I thinkmaybe like a week, to reprogram
(39:13):
everything in a synth that I hadnever used before, two synths
that I had never used before.
So in those moments, then Irealized, I was like, oh my God,
yeah, it's not that I'm notinterested in this, but I
really, really do need that helpto finish task A to finish task
(39:35):
B in that order, you know, inorder for anything to get done.
And it did take me a long timeto kind of realize, like, yeah,
well, it's not like theydiagnosed me with this because
it was, you know, fun, you know,or just because, like, I was a
child that might have had a bitof a rebellious side.
But, no, it's because, yeah, Idid come to terms with it.
(39:55):
I really just need it tofunction, I suppose.
Okay.
UNKNOWN (40:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:00):
But at the same time, I didn't like to feel like
I needed anything.
SPEAKER_01 (40:05):
Yeah, and I think that's the struggle, is that we
all want to feel like, you know,we're fine the way we were born.
But I guess the reality is thatthere is some great medication
out there that can really helpus live our lives and make us
feel more like ourselves.
(40:26):
And, you know, like in yourcase...
get from one point to anotherand get to a point where you
really appreciate that.
SPEAKER_00 (40:34):
Yeah.
I mean, I'm very grateful forthat.
I mean, now that I'm living backin Los Angeles, you know, I'm
medicated now and again, and Ifeel, you know, things are
moving at a very fast pace forme and I could not imagine doing
all the things that I do withouthaving, you know, the aid that,
(40:56):
you know, that I have theability to have.
SPEAKER_01 (40:59):
Now, did you take anything for depression?
SPEAKER_00 (41:03):
Yeah, when I was in, for a little bit, yes.
I took Zoloft when I was ateenager.
Mental illness runs in myfamily.
SPEAKER_01 (41:14):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (41:15):
My mom was depressed, I'm sorry, she was
diagnosed with manic depression.
Okay.
And anxiety, I believe, and alsoADD.
Then there's my uncle and myaunt, and it just goes.
All my cousins, my sister,definitely.
We've all been clinicallydiagnosed with something.
SPEAKER_01 (41:35):
Have you lost any family members due to mental
illness?
SPEAKER_00 (41:39):
I have a cousin that's incarcerated that I feel
could have definitely benefitedfrom getting mental help.
I don't believe that theywere...
That side of the family was soin tune with the reality of the
situation before things got badfor him.
In that aspect, we did lose him.
(42:01):
He's still alive, but he wasn'table to get the treatment that
perhaps could have benefited himbefore.
I haven't had any history ofanybody taking their own life or
anything.
Everybody has been quite openabout to receiving help
SPEAKER_01 (42:21):
that's fantastic
SPEAKER_00 (42:22):
yeah it's it's it is amazing because not a lot of
people are able to have thatsort of support system i suppose
in their family if you feel likeyou don't have anybody that you
can reach out to you know umthere are so many groups out
there that i know and it mightmight even sound oh this is so
lame i'm going to talk to peoplei don't know it is so it's
(42:44):
relieving to know that you'renot alone in that feeling
whatever it is you're feeling Istumbled upon it accidentally
through my post and had anamazing reception and it really
really helped me feel better sowhatever your medium is in that
moment even if you're feelinglike nobody cares they 100% do
(43:09):
and If I could say one moreparting thing, a task that
really helped me, and I saw thisactually happen on one of the
tours I was with when Chris wasgoing through his healing and
starting to overcome hisdepression.
It was a really lovely exercisethat he did that he would ask
(43:34):
everybody to do, where at theend of the night, we'd be like,
all right, well, What are fivegood things that happened today?
And you have to sit there andeven if you had the worst day,
he would make you do it.
And that sort of positivereinforcement is all you need
(43:54):
because it's infectious.
So even if I was like, oh, God,my synth broke today and like I
might have been feeling fat orlike, you know, all of these
things.
Sat there and was like, I had agood dinner.
I had a really nice dinner.
I played an amazing show withhundreds of people that loved
(44:15):
every moment of it.
And that day was somebody's bestday they've ever had.
And I was a part of that.
Yeah, that's special.
Anything that helps you removeyourself from the darkness, just
for a moment, because you reallyowe it.
You deserve it.
You deserve that feeling ofrelief.
SPEAKER_01 (44:40):
Well, today I have the talented singer-songwriter
Kat Jensen joining me today totalk about Sammy Doll's
interview and also about what tolook for in depression and also
how we can help others if wecome across someone who has
(45:01):
depression or if you havedepression yourself.
Welcome, Kat, to the JensenPodcast.
SPEAKER_04 (45:07):
Thank you for having me, Mari.
I'm so excited to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (45:10):
I am so glad you're here to give us some additional
insight.
But first of all, I wanted toask you about Sammy Doll's
interview.
What stood out to you mostregarding her depression?
I
SPEAKER_04 (45:26):
really enjoyed her interview, by the way.
She is such a doll.
I mean, seriously, you know, youcan't not love this girl.
She is, you know, I didn't evenhave the feeling like that
she...
would have depression you knowwhat i'm saying and this is
really important becauseoftentimes people that do have
(45:47):
it you may not suspect you knowthey can cover up and they can
kind of hide their tracks andthey may they may um you might
not see it until it becomes areal problem
SPEAKER_01 (45:59):
well that was one thing um she brought out was
that the year that she was in areally deep depression, she had
quite a few successes.
You know, she was going on tourand created music and there were
things in her life that actuallylooked like she was doing well,
but behind closed doors when shewas in Berlin, you know, the
(46:24):
atmosphere, She was havingissues with a relationship at
the time.
There were a lot of changes thatreally contributed to her
depression, along with the factthat she had ADHD.
And, you know, that can often...
Depression can often be a partof that disorder as well.
SPEAKER_04 (46:44):
Right.
It's not uncommon.
There's, you know, more riskfactor if you have some other,
you know...
mental issue going on withinthere.
I mean, depression kind oflives.
Depression is sort of a, it'slike an umbrella term in a
(47:05):
sense, because there aredifferent types of depression.
I think we've all experienceddepression at one time or
another.
And you may have family membersor friends that say, oh, well,
depression is no big deal.
I get depressed too.
Just get over it.
And it's really not that simplebecause depression wears many
(47:29):
faces and people that sufferwith it commonly lose interest
in things.
It's difficult for them toidentify with who they are.
As you said, she had many thingsto be happy about.
many successes to be happyabout.
(47:50):
But when you're going throughsomething like this, you don't
identify.
It's very hard to feel, youknow, appropriately for the
situation.
You know, you want to crawl upin your bed and just do nothing
and disconnect when you haveeverything in the world to be
(48:11):
happy for.
And then that doesn't makesense.
SPEAKER_01 (48:14):
Yeah, that could kind of I mean, contribute to
the confusion and also maybe theguilt.
I mean, there might be peoplethat say, oh, my gosh,
everything seems to be going sowell for you.
How can you be depressed?
Right.
Drop out of it.
Right.
Or, you know, you need to stopfeeling this way.
I mean, if we could all do that,we wouldn't have conditions like
(48:39):
depression.
SPEAKER_03 (48:39):
Exactly.
I
SPEAKER_01 (48:41):
mean, we've got to remember, too, that depression
can be a fatal disorder.
And I say that because we'regoing to go over the signs and,
you know, what to look for,whether you have depression or
somebody else is going throughit, so that when you come across
those signs, you can dosomething.
(49:03):
And then we're going to talkalso about what we can do.
And, you know, right now we'rein the middle of this
coronavirus pandemic.
We have to get a little...
creative about how we show ourempathy and our sympathy toward
people that are suffering rightnow.
SPEAKER_04 (49:20):
You know, it's stressful.
There is a lot of stress to livethrough a pandemic.
And there's, you know, theeconomy and there's the fears of
family or getting sick orwhatever.
What do I do?
SPEAKER_01 (49:35):
Losing your job.
SPEAKER_04 (49:36):
Right.
Losing your job or being forcedto reinvent the And in an area
where you can't even reallybarely talk to other people in
person, it's difficult.
And we are going to see some ofthese things.
People might have, they mightgenetically have maybe a gene
(50:00):
that does carry depression.
We know that there is a strongheredity that goes with this.
And sometimes it will notexpress.
but it might express if you'reunder some sort of stress.
And right now we're all under alot of stress.
SPEAKER_01 (50:21):
It's there.
And do things, like I said, totry and be creative about
reaching out or having thatsocial interaction that we all
need.
Because we all know about thestress and trauma that could
cause depression.
But Sammy also talked about herfamily dynamics and her genetics
that oftentimes mood disorderscan be passed down.
(50:44):
Yes.
I just want to mention a coupleother things.
Like if you have a physicaldisease, you know, cancer or
heart disease, there could behormonal changes that cause
depression.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (50:59):
Even thyroid disease.
If you have a problem, get yourthyroid checked.
Sometimes people, that's assimple as going and getting a
blood test and they don't evenknow that their thyroid is off
and they're depressed.
SPEAKER_01 (51:12):
Exactly.
And puberty is a time whereoften people, Mood disorders can
come out during those times.
We also heard about the babyblues.
After people have a baby, theirestrogen, progesterone, all of
that goes crazy, and they canhave a bout of serious
depression.
SPEAKER_04 (51:32):
Right.
This is kind of why I said itwas the depression, when you
call it depression.
It's sort of an umbrella termbecause depression you're
talking about these symptoms orthe things you might feel, but
there could be other causes.
There could be coexisting, asyou said, ADHD.
(51:53):
There could be environmental.
We oftentimes talk about natureversus nurture, but this is,
we're seeing now that it's morenature and nurture.
So you may already bepredisposed to something, but
you may never ever have anepisode.
But you may be predisposed.
(52:15):
And you go to Germany to go gigsomewhere.
And all of a sudden, you'regetting really more depressed
than any of your other friends.
And you don't know why.
SPEAKER_01 (52:24):
Well, that was one thing she said was that she...
was taking medication for adhdon and off throughout her life
but in berlin they don'tnormally medicate for adhd and
so she stopped taking hermedication and she noticed that
when she came across roadblocksor challenges in her life that
(52:47):
it would you know more likelytrigger a depression and that's
exactly what happened um theother thing was that the change
in location just a change ofseasons we're talking about
seasonal affective disorder
SPEAKER_04 (53:04):
you have to acclimate to a different to a
different place and you know insome of the northern countries
you don't get as much sunlightand we know now that seasonal
affective disorder is a truething it affects people that
they don't get enough sunlightum oftentimes uh light therapy
(53:25):
can be helpful So, you know, butyou have to be aware of these
things.
Oftentimes we sit there and say,well, I don't know what's wrong
with me.
I'm just going to, you know,camp on the couch and I don't
want to move.
You don't know how to treatyourself.
SPEAKER_01 (53:41):
Yeah.
And that's the hard part.
But let's talk about some of thethings, the symptoms that she
had that were very typical.
Like for instance, you know, shetalked about, you know, a
hopeless outlook, just kind oflike feeling like a burden to
everyone.
And that's it.
It's like you don't feel likedoing anything.
(54:03):
And oftentimes you can't.
You know, your mind is notworking properly.
Everything seems difficult todo, even the smallest things.
And she lost interest in hermusic.
She lost interest in creatingmusic and playing music.
And that's when her bandmate,kind of sat her down and said,
(54:24):
you know what, something isgoing on.
You know, she noticed adifference in her personality.
And that's one thing to reallybe aware of is somebody changing
their personality, withdrawing,not showing interest, maybe even
somebody who was active onsocial media.
And then all of a sudden youjust don't see any more posts.
(54:44):
You may want to check in on thatfriend.
SPEAKER_04 (54:47):
Right.
You're right.
One thing I, do commonly sayabout depression in general, or
any mental illness really, isthat it's like a thief in the
night.
It comes in and it just stealsfrom you.
And it steals the thing thatmeans the most to you, which is
(55:09):
your creativity, your feelingsabout interaction with your
family or with your friends.
There's a definite change thathappens And it's really
miserable, but it is a lot likehaving a thief just come in and
take from you the things thatmean the most to you in your
(55:30):
life.
SPEAKER_01 (55:31):
Yeah, the things that you love.
And I remember when I was in thedepths of depression, I couldn't
listen to music anymore.
And that was so sad for me.
I didn't want to go to livemusic anymore, which is
something that I love, because Icouldn't feel...
I couldn't feel anything.
I couldn't feel those positiveemotions.
(55:52):
And that's the feeling ofdisconnection.
All I could feel were the bademotions.
And she was talking about thethoughts in her mind when she
would wake up in the morning andsay, oh gosh, I'm still here.
It's those bad thoughts.
SPEAKER_04 (56:15):
And Those are old tapes.
They're old tapes that kind ofget played within your head, you
know, and you start listening toall that chitter chatter.
SPEAKER_03 (56:25):
And
SPEAKER_04 (56:25):
that is what's so dangerous.
For me, I learned throughcognitive behavioral therapy
that the best way is you have torebut every one of those
thoughts.
You must stop those thoughts.
thought whenever a bad thoughtcomes in you must rebut it and
(56:46):
get it out of your head becauseit's lying to you depression
will steal from you it will lieto you it will take you to every
depth of despair and some peopledon't get out alive and yeah
SPEAKER_01 (57:02):
right it can be a fatal disease and um to not
listen to those negativethoughts, but also to be aware
that when you're in it, one ofthe symptoms is thinking about
death and thinking aboutsuicide.
And that's scary for the personwho's going through it,
(57:22):
especially if that's notsomething that, I mean, that is
not normal to feel that whenyou're healthy.
But when you are depressed, thatis something that will go
through your mind.
And that is scary.
SPEAKER_04 (57:35):
Stop reminiscing.
Yeah, they ruminate.
They come through intrusively.
And, you know, somebody who's onthe outside looking in would
say, but you have so much tolive for.
I mean, look at people likeChris Cornell or these people
that have so many things to livefor.
SPEAKER_01 (57:51):
There were a lot of musicians that at the top of
their game, they ended theirlife.
Amy Winehouse and Kurt Cobain.
SPEAKER_04 (58:01):
Kurt Cobain really comes to mind.
I mean, because that was just...
So brutal.
And sometimes the thoughts arevery impulsive.
And if you have ADHD and youhave trouble controlling
impulsivity, you may have ahigher risk.
SPEAKER_01 (58:19):
You know, other symptoms, having sleep problems,
feeling like you're tired allthe time but not being able to
get to sleep or sleeping toomuch.
Anxiety is like the...
evil stepsister, I guess, ofdepression.
And the anxiety and the fear canreally overtake us.
I mean, this is like not justworry, but it's fear times a
(58:43):
hundred.
It's confusing.
It's scary.
And it's dark.
But there are ways to get out ofit.
And that's the faith that we allneed to have is there are ways
to get out.
SPEAKER_04 (58:58):
I now like to use...
I use either Headspace or I useCalm or sometimes I'll go onto
YouTube and just like findmeditational types of apps.
And I tell myself that I givemyself as if you were actually
going to do commit time at thegym.
(59:19):
I commit time for my mentalhealth.
And this is what I've foundworks for me.
I have definitely benefited fromthat.
SPEAKER_01 (59:30):
Well, you know, some of the apps that you talked
about are great things to dowhile we're on lockdown or when
we're, you know, by ourselves,which, you know, oftentimes when
we're going through a mooddisorder, we want to be by
ourselves, but ways to reachout.
On top of that is things likeZoom.
I know the Depression andBipolar Support Alliance, they
(59:53):
have regular meetings on Zoomwhere you can speak your mind
and commiserate with others, getadvice, but also stay anonymous
if you'd like.
And NAMI, National Alliance ofMental Illness, all of these
things are on Zoom.
(01:00:13):
Yeah, NAMI is great.
And we have all of theseorganizations listed on the
check your head podcast.comwebsite, because I want it to be
in like easy, affordable waysfor people to get help.
Because, you know, oftentimeswhen we realize that we need
help, you know, where do we go?
And this is just an easy way forpeople that to get help.
SPEAKER_04 (01:00:36):
I had experience with NAMI because you know when
this first whole COVID shutdownthing took place and I had a lot
of stress and I started to findmyself getting some of those
negative thoughts again and justknowing that depression, mental
illness, these things sit in thecorner doing push-ups waiting
(01:00:59):
for you to, you know, be weakagain.
and it can step right on in andsteal your life some more.
And so I went ahead and I textedNAMI and it was a really good
experience for me.
I, you know, you just, you typein, I'm sure when they go to
your website, they can find thenumbers that you type in, but
(01:01:22):
you just type it into yourtexting.
And somebody responded reallyquickly to me.
and i was able to kind of letout some of the things that were
disturbing me that were you knowthe all the pressure of school
and all these things that werekind of scaring me at the time
and it was a good experience forme so there's there's even that
(01:01:43):
there is help and it works ifyou want to work it it it
definitely does i'm living proof
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:55):
A big thank you to singer-songwriter Kat Jensen and
to our featured guest, SammyDoll.
For more information on SammyDoll, find her on social media
at OfficialSammyDoll.
For IMX, go to imxmusic.com andhear their new acoustic album
entitled Echo Echo.
And for Bullet Height, find themon social media at Bullet
(01:02:17):
Height.
So until next time, be brave.
Ask for help and be persistentin finding the mental health
that you need.
Check Your Head is kindlysupported by DBSA San Gabriel
Valley, Lemon Tree Studios inLos Angeles, Blue Oak
Podcasting, and other kinddonors and sponsors.
Visit checkyourheadpodcast.comwhere you'll find more resources
(01:02:40):
for mental health, Subscribe$2to our podcast on our Patreon
page and be our friends onFacebook, Instagram, and
Twitter.
Check Your Head Podcast is a501c3-sponsored nonprofit with
all donations beingtax-deductible.
Thank you so much for listening.
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