July 29, 2025 • 58 mins
Mari Fong interviews musical guest Margaret Cho and Kandace Kuwahara of Infinite Love Rescue. Margaret Cho gives a no-holds-barred interview talking about opioid addiction (such as Vicodin, Oxycontin, Percocet, Heroin and more) and other addictions (alcohol, benzodiazepines like Xanax and Valium and more), being bed-ridden for a month while detoxing, sharing her solutions for how she survived and how she now lives a happy sober life with her beloved pets by her side. Margaret Cho recently dropped her new album “Lucky Gift” and will soon be on her comedy tour, “Choligarchy" starting in August, 2025. We also play a clip of her single,“Lucky Gift” at the end of our episode.
Next, our featured expert is Kandace Kuwahara, owner of the nonprofit, Infinite Love Rescue. For over 20 years, Kandace has volunteered for rescue organizations, with her mission being to find forever homes for animals who have been abandoned. Her annual Furbaby Lovefest this October 5 is a free event, featuring low-cost animal services and fun activities like a furbaby costume contest. Kandace and I will be talking about how pets can support our mental health and why adopting a rescue is so worth it.
Be brave, ask for help, and be persistent in finding the mental help that you need.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:00):
Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, the podcast
where notable musicians andexperts share stories and
solutions for mental health andaddiction recovery.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist, and today's
featured guest you might knowmore as a comedian.
Yet this Grammy-nominatedsinger-songwriter has dropped
(00:23):
three studio albums and is alsoknown for her bold, outspoken
activism.
and is a true legend and atrailblazer.
Today's guest is the greatMargaret Cho, who recently
dropped her new album, LuckyGift, and will soon be on her
comedy tour, Choligarchy.
Margaret gives a no-holds-barredinterview, talking about
(00:45):
multiple addictions, includingopiates and alcohol, being
bedridden for a month whiledetoxing, then sharing her
solutions for how she survivedit all and how she now lives a
happy, sober life with herbeloved pet spider side.
We'll also play a clip of hersingle, Lucky Gift, at the end
of our episode.
(01:05):
Next, our featured expert isCandice Kuwahara, owner of the
non-profit Infinite Love Rescue.
For over 20 years, Candice hasvolunteered for rescue
organizations, with her missionbeing to find forever homes for
animals who have been abandoned.
Her annual Fur Baby Love Festthis October 5th is a free event
(01:29):
featuring low-cost animalservices and fun activities like
a fur baby costume contest.
Candice and I will be talkingabout how pets can support our
mental health and why adopting arescue is so worth it.
But first, let's hear musician,comedian, and actress Margaret
Cho share her story.
(01:52):
I was at the Grammy Museum showand I was really touched by you
speaking out on mental healthand people that you knew that
passed, Elliot Smith and MacMiller.
So I really wanted you to be onthe podcast.
So thank you.
Thank you.
I kind of wanted to go back intoyour past a bit.
I read that you had beenmolested and raped when you were
(02:15):
younger, which is reallytraumatic.
And I'm wondering after that,that period of your life
happened, how did that changeyour view of yourself?
SPEAKER_04 (02:26):
I think what it does is it makes you feel very unsafe
in your body.
And for me, it made sex, anykind of sex, super weird.
So then for a long time, Ididn't ever want to have sex
without being drunk or highbecause it was just a weird
experience.
I didn't know how to let gophysically in a consensual
sexual encounter because I justwas so uncomfortable with just
(02:50):
the feeling of sexuality ingeneral.
So much of that being pairedwith alcohol and drugs, it
creates a problem over time.
Like you can't really do that.
Also, you're not reallyconnecting with the other
person.
That was the most damagingaspect is that when you come
from abuse, like you don't knowhow to relate to sex as like a
normal thing.
And then using drugs and alcoholto attain a kind of sexuality
(03:14):
was also very destructive.
I don't know if my perception ofmyself altered.
It was more my perception ofsexuality was compromised
because I just couldn't imaginedoing it without being high or
drunk.
I would need a substance inorder to be able to connect with
(03:38):
anyone, to even go on a date.
I would need to be drinking.
I would need to be doing drugs.
There's just like no options.
SPEAKER_03 (03:46):
You know, I hear that sometimes after a trauma
like that, you can act out indifferent ways.
I think in your early teens, youhad been like a sex operator or?
Oh,
SPEAKER_04 (03:57):
yeah, I was a phone sex operator.
And then I would record messagesto be listened to on a phone sex
line.
And then I was not a gooddominatrix.
I'm terrible at that.
So I was like really bad becauseI didn't really do that job very
well.
And it wasn't for long, just onetime.
I wouldn't count that as areaction to abuse.
(04:20):
That's probably more of areaction to like doing drugs,
drinking at an early age andkind of having no rules.
When I was a teenager, I startedto being comedian really young.
I started when I was 14.
I actually started to kind ofmake a living at it when I was
like around 16 and 17.
So I was really doing my ownthing.
I would go back and forth.
(04:42):
Like I would go back and move inwith my parents for a little
while and then leave again.
But there was no real sense ofanything running my life except
for wanting to be a comedian,wanting to be an artist,
partying and kind of getting anyjob that I could.
So that it was sex work was notreally a reaction to my own
(05:03):
sexual abuse.
It's just a thing that happened.
And I don't really have anyjudgment about it either way.
Like, I don't find being a sexworker is damaging.
I don't think it was evenremotely damaging.
anything worse than what I wasalready doing, which is very
damaging to drink alcohol at ayoung age, you know, in your
(05:23):
teens when your brain is stilldeveloping and doing drugs when
your brain is still developing.
I think those things were farworse.
SPEAKER_03 (05:31):
Well, I'd read that you had tried all kinds of
different drugs and alcohol, butyou chose something that I
thought was really interesting,which was opium.
And I was wondering, like, Whatdid you find that particular
drug as being seductive to you?
Well,
SPEAKER_04 (05:51):
opiates in general, I only tried opium a couple of
times, a couple of times inIndia and a couple of times like
a fish show.
You know, when you're going tosee a jam band, you get to try
all sorts of very experimentalor very ancient drugs like
opium.
Hard to get.
I've tried to make it before.
You can get the bulbs orwhatever.
(06:13):
I could try to Martha Stewartthat stuff, but I don't have the
energy to do that kind of stuff.
I would actually love to growpoppies now.
That would be a nice thing todo.
That would be really beautiful.
But I actually have quite a fewcactus, like the San Pedro
cactus, which you could probablymake mescaline from.
Those are such magnificentcactus.
(06:35):
I would never want to cut themup.
But yeah, I love...
Anything opiate, like anythingin the opiate family, whether
that's Percocet or Norcos or anyof that, you know, going to
Oxycontin, heroin, fentanyl,those are my drugs of choice in
general.
SPEAKER_03 (06:54):
And what was it about those drugs that really
was attractive to you?
SPEAKER_04 (06:59):
Well, it was a feeling of safety and warmth
that was very short-lived.
it was a kind of sense offorgetting.
Also, you have like, if you doenough, those kinds of drugs,
and I like anything sleepy.
So I like alcohol.
I like benzodiazepines, anythinglike a muscle relaxant, those
(07:20):
things that are sleepy becauseyou also have great memory loss.
So that's actually a problem,but it's kind of fun.
I think it's just a verydamaging way to live, but I am
definitely a downer person.
I never did well with cocaine orcrystal meth or Any of the
uppers, I don't even drinkcoffee.
You know, I'm very anti any ofthose things.
(07:43):
So I'm much of a downer lady.
Interesting.
SPEAKER_03 (07:47):
Because I've read that you described yourself as a
depressive personality.
And so to choose something thatis more of a downer, it would be
something that I wouldn't guess.
SPEAKER_04 (07:58):
Yeah, it's interesting.
But opiates, the thing about itis you get the opposite effect.
So at first you get a burst ofenergy and then it's very
optimistic and everything isgoing to be okay and
everything's fantastic.
But then you get the other sidewhere you're sort of coming down
and then you're sick and it'slike they're depressed and it's
the worst feeling.
It's actually the worst drugbecause it's the least payoff
(08:21):
for what you're doing, all thatyou sacrifice in your life for
it.
So It's really the big lie.
Like opiates are kind of the biglie of all medicines because
they don't really offer relief.
I mean, probably do if you'reactually in physical pain and
need to deal with it.
But I wish never, ever usinganything like that for physical
(08:44):
pain.
SPEAKER_03 (08:45):
Okay.
And then it sounds like alcoholwas sort of like, kind of like a
foundation medication for
SPEAKER_04 (08:51):
you.
It's always there.
It's always a part of it.
It has to be a part of it.
I was never a pure drug addict.
I always had to include alcohol.
There was never a moment withoutthat, you know.
And the combination, if drugsand alcohol are mixed are really
destructive.
Like it's really bad for yourbody.
It's really bad for your brain,which is why I'm so conscious
(09:12):
now of things like dementia orAlzheimer's.
Like I'm very concerned aboutall of the damage that I was
doing in the early part of mylife.
So now I'm very much aboutgrowing my brain, whether that's
writing, reading.
I always play music every day togrow my brain.
SPEAKER_03 (09:32):
Yeah, playing music is so great as an exercise
because it exercises so manyparts of your brain at the same
time.
So with the opiates and thealcohol, and you're talking
about how destructive it is, canyou give like a couple examples
of things that happened in yourlife that were just really
dangerous at the time?
SPEAKER_04 (09:52):
The way that I like to drink alcohol I like to drink
a couple of bottles of wine.
Then I like to take a bunch ofdrugs that are not prescribed to
me.
Then I like to get in my car anddrive to a violent man's house.
That's like so many ways I couldhave died.
Like a couple of people thatI've dated, like guys we're
really into, killed their wives.
Like I'm attracted to dangerouspeople.
(10:13):
Okay, I could have had alcoholpoisoning.
I could have OD'd on combiningbenzodiazepines and opiates and
alcohol.
I could have gotten a caraccident.
I could have gotten strangled bysome dude.
Like, I can't even count thetimes that I did that.
It's a miracle that I'm alive.
(10:34):
It's really baffling to me thatI'm alive.
But because I am now, I reallymake the most of living by I'm
very active.
Anybody can be super sober.
I actually am.
But yeah, there's so many times.
that kind of stuff happened.
Like Ayuna just died like amillion times every
SPEAKER_03 (10:55):
day.
I mean, at the Grammy Museum,you had that program and you
talked a lot about that guy whowas a murderer.
And it was so scary to hearabout that and how he pushed you
down the stairs.
And you said that you visitedviolent men.
I mean, did they get violentwith
SPEAKER_04 (11:11):
you?
No, but it was more like theviolence was like, if it had
gone any further in therelationships or whatever, it
was like, oh yeah, I'd be dead.
Like, I'm just choosing peoplethat are unsafe.
Fortunately, nothing happened.
Fortunately, I was neveractually killed or physically
(11:31):
hurt in that way.
But when you're in that kind ofcompany, you don't know what's
going to happen.
SPEAKER_03 (11:37):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I'm glad that nothinghappened that was violent
towards you.
And I'm wondering if you tiethat to any of the sexual abuse
that you had in the past.
SPEAKER_02 (11:51):
Probably, but
SPEAKER_04 (11:52):
it's unconscious.
That's probably related.
I just don't know, because Iwasn't making the choices to be
with them in a sober mind.
All of these choices were madedrunk and high.
If I am choosing these partnersbecause of my history of abuse,
that's probably more of anunconscious decision, which we
make all the time, regardless ofour state of mind.
(12:14):
Although I know now, as I'vebeen sober, I've been much more
judicious about Therelationships, especially sexual
relationships that I have,they've all been really
nourishing and safe.
And that's been in the lastdecade.
So I can say that for sure, youknow, like I definitely make the
right choices as a sober person.
(12:35):
But when I'm not sober, then Idon't know what I'm doing.
SPEAKER_03 (12:38):
Yeah, it's just dangerous all around as far as
the decision making.
Yeah, because you're not reallyin your right mind at the time.
And people can change intodifferent people when they're in
their addiction.
So there's that as well.
I was reading about when you hadyour intervention and two of
(13:00):
your friends were sitting withyou while this was going on to
prevent you from running ortrying to get away.
Because I would not.
I
SPEAKER_04 (13:09):
just was really protecting my alcoholism.
Like I was not going to stopdrinking.
I was like, you're not going tomake me stop drinking.
That's the one thing that I'mnot doing.
And that's the weird thing aboutit.
Even if we're like dying, we'lllike die to protect it.
I was gonna drink.
I'm like, I don't care what yousay.
I don't care what you do.
I'm not gonna stop drinking.
And that's final.
(13:29):
So I wasn't really enthusedabout going to treatment, but I
knew like when I got totreatment that I was too
physically weak to leave.
So I had to complete itregardless of what I wanted.
I mean, I was just, I can'tactually run away, so I have to
(13:50):
stay here.
That was kind of it.
They basically brought me up tothe top of a hill, and I was
just too weak to climb down.
So I'm glad.
I'm glad, but it was not mydecision to get sober.
It was not my decision at all.
I was forced into it.
I'm really grateful that ithappened.
But if that had not happened, Iwould definitely be dead by now,
(14:11):
for sure.
SPEAKER_03 (14:12):
Well, when you go into rehab and it's against your
will, At what point do youchange and say, I'm going to
embrace this?
SPEAKER_04 (14:23):
I did right away because I had no choice.
I had to embrace it because Icouldn't, by my own strength,
walk out of the facility.
I was too physically weak.
I had just trashed my body andmy system so much that I
couldn't even walk.
I was bedridden for almost anentire month when they had to
(14:47):
pharmaceutically ease me off ofevery drug that I was on and all
the alcohol that I was on.
So it was a very slow process ofweaning my body off of all of
these substances.
There were so many.
It was like insane.
Opiates, benzodiazepines, all ofthose in combination.
Like if you stop drinking, itcan kill you.
(15:07):
Like if you're not dependent onalcohol, it can kill you.
Benzodiazepines, if you juststop, you can have seizures.
You can have a stroke.
You could die.
Opiates just make you feel likeyou're going to die.
So all those three together.
And then Kratom, which isanother one.
Marijuana, which is super weird.
Adderall, which I don't evenlike.
I don't know why I was takingit, but I was on it.
A million things.
Like I had to be weaned off ofso many things.
(15:30):
That was like, I couldn't evenget out of bed.
So Kratom.
Kratom is this.
Oh, it's so gross.
They have it now in the gasstation.
People can buy it at a head shopor it's legal.
It's an opiate-like thing.
leaf that they do extractionsfrom and people are taking it
(15:52):
now as a way to wean themselvesoff of like fentanyl.
But it's a drug on its own andit fills up the opiate receptor
so it has the same kind ofreaction in your system as
opiates.
But you can get really addictedto it very quickly and you can
get very sick if you stop takingit.
(16:13):
So There's a lot of people nowwho are really addicted to
Kratom.
And I was an early adopter tothat almost 10 years ago.
But yeah, that was a horriblething to withdraw from.
That and benzodiazepines arereally very difficult to get out
of your system.
SPEAKER_03 (16:32):
Oh, gosh.
Okay.
So first of all, you've beenreally brave and persistent to
go through all of that becauserelapse and going to rehab is
all part of Addiction.
It's pretty common to go throughebbs and flows.
What was your greatest fearbefore going into rehab?
SPEAKER_04 (16:53):
That I would not be able to handle life without a
substance, that I would have tolive without drinking.
I don't even know what thatwould be like.
Now it's been almost 10 yearsand now I know, but that was my
greatest fear to stop drinking.
And I'm still afraid of that,even though I don't drink
alcohol, like I'm still afraid.
That's still kind of like afear.
It's weird.
(17:13):
But I do a lot to hopefullyprevent relapse.
I don't want to, I don't haveany plans to relapse, but you
know, it's always a possibility.
When you look in your past, canyou think of triggers that have
caused you to relapse?
What causes it is pulling awayfrom my recovery community.
(17:37):
What causes it is not beinginvolved in recovery actively
every day.
What causes it is like kind ofgoing, well, I guess I don't
really need to do that kind ofstuff anymore.
For me, what that causes is sortof forgetting that I need to
engage every day in my recoverywork or else I will lose it.
So I do it rigorously every day.
(18:00):
I have a very strong...
recovery program that is most ofmy social life.
Most of my social life is comedyand then music and then
recovery.
So all my friends are in one ofthose communities.
SPEAKER_03 (18:14):
Well, one thing I'm curious about is the whole
process of recovery.
What did you learn aboutyourself and how to heal during
that whole process?
SPEAKER_04 (18:27):
I think what I learned about myself is was that
I really have to be diligentabout my sobriety because I will
always look for loopholes andlike, what could I do?
You know, that's cheating alittle bit.
Like I like to beat the systemand I like to cheat and I like
(18:49):
to look for loopholes and howcan I find the cheat code and
that kind of stuff.
So that's really important tonot look for loopholes and to
really be committed to it.
I also learned that I think Ihave a hard time coping with
strong emotions, like strongemotions are kind of drug for
me.
So I can be altered by a strongemotion where I think that
(19:10):
normal people aren't, you know,and so now I have to look for
coping mechanisms or search fora way to cope with things.
And part of that is coping withthe idea of coping beforehand.
So part of that is meditation.
I have a really strongmeditation practice, which I do
every day with real diligence,that will help me quiet my mind
(19:33):
in situations which aretriggering, which are strong
emotions, which is anything thatis a big feeling.
It's going to get me going,whether it's positive or
negative.
So getting a handle on mentalhealth before I need a solution
is the key.
So for me, it's building astrong recovery community,
(19:53):
building a strong network ofpeople I can reach out to who
also reach out to me.
and meditation.
SPEAKER_03 (20:01):
Let's say you have a strong emotion, whether it's
anger or sadness or grief.
And I think what happens isthat, you know, people try to
grab the fastest thing that'sgoing to make them feel good,
right?
And sometimes it's drugs andalcohol.
But now we're at a point whereyou're conscious and you're
like, okay, this is a strongemotion.
What are your go-tos?
SPEAKER_04 (20:23):
I just leave.
Like I was at a memorial servicefor somebody I love very much.
And the circumstances of herdeath were terrible.
And everybody was talking aboutit.
And they were also drinking.
They all had alcohol.
And everybody was drinking andtalking about it.
And, you know, it's getting verygraphic detail.
And I was getting really upset.
(20:43):
And I just left.
And it was like the worst thingbecause I didn't get to
memorialize her.
I had to leave.
Like, it was rude.
And it sucked.
But I was safeguarding my sanityand my sobriety by just walking
out.
And I think a lot of timespeople are unwilling to leave a
(21:04):
social situation when it'sperceived as awkward.
But I just do it.
Like if I feel awkward oruncomfortable, I just walk out.
And it's so rude.
I do it all the time.
I'm probably on the spectrum insome way because there's only
certain things that much I cantolerate.
And then I have to walk out.
Like I just have to walk out.
It used to be where I would justgo to the bar and get a drink,
(21:27):
you know, to solve it.
But now I just leave.
So if I'm at a show that I'm notvibing, I just walk out.
It's so rude, but it's solifesaving, you know?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (21:38):
And I don't know if it's necessarily rude all the
time.
I think that people are startingto understand that, you know,
taking even five minutes to getyourself together.
I've read that you're kind of ashy person.
As well, I grew up super shy,and I've learned to be an
extrovert, which I'm sure youhave as well, you know, being an
(21:59):
entertainer.
But I find that if I getoverwhelmed, I might take five
minutes in the stairwell bymyself, and that is so
recharging for me.
You know, it kind of centersyou.
I know how you might feel likeit's being rude, but I think
people are starting tounderstand that you're keeping
your mental health as apriority.
SPEAKER_04 (22:22):
Yeah, it's good.
It's actually very healing andimportant to kind of know your
own boundaries and what you'reable to deal with and what
you're able to do and notcompromise those because of the
comfort of others.
So I'm really grateful to kindof do that now and know that
now.
But yeah, if I feel like off, Ijust remove myself.
SPEAKER_03 (22:41):
Well, you know, that kind of brings me to the
question about Mental health andaddiction recovery and the music
industry.
You know, oftentimes I'll ask,you know, what can the music
industry do to help musicians inthis area?
But I'm asking you now, what canmusicians do to be the leader or
(23:02):
be stronger or more persistentin voicing their needs as far as
protecting their mental healthor sobriety?
SPEAKER_04 (23:11):
Well, I think what's cool is that their sobriety
community has risen up around alot of music events.
Like if you go to any majorfestival, there's always going
to be some kind of 12-stepmeeting around there, like that
people will organize themselvesand do that.
Like that's super cool,especially like music festivals,
which are just all about drugsand partying.
You know, you want to know thatthere's a safety net there and
(23:35):
that exists and that's great.
Also, I think what's soincredible is the fact that
there's so much recovery on Zoomso that musicians on tour can
access any of that 24 hours aday, wherever they are in the
world.
And that's really powerful.
Like over the years of my, youknow, different connections with
sobriety, not having the accessto 12-step meetings was a real
(24:01):
hindrance because I was on tourall the time and I would not
want to get myself to like, goto a meeting, especially if I
was tired or traveling.
You know, you just don't feelmotivated to.
But if it's online, it's such agreat resource.
So there's a lot of thingshappening 24 hours a day that
you can have access to anywhere,which is powerful.
So I think that's reallyimportant.
(24:22):
I think so, too.
And I
SPEAKER_03 (24:24):
don't think people realize that you could be
anonymous, especially online.
You could turn off your videocamera.
You can use a different name,and you could still have that
connection with a support groupor with a Zoom therapy session,
you know, whether it's with atherapist or a psychiatrist or
even just with a close friend,connecting that way as a
(24:46):
solution to maybe a strongemotion.
You know, one thing I read wasthere was a time where you felt
very low and you werecontemplating suicide and you
had even attempted at
SPEAKER_04 (25:01):
one point.
No, that's not right because Iwas so high and drunk when I did
it that it wasn't even asuicide.
That's homicide.
Like I wasn't even aware that Itried to commit suicide.
Like I wasn't even actually incharge of it.
So it's like not, I wouldn'tconsider it suicide.
What's sad is that I wasn'tactually suicidal.
(25:22):
I just didn't care if I lived ordied.
which is actually worse thanbeing suicidal because at least
with suicidal, you're kind ofgoal-oriented or you're like, I
have something I wanna do, butyou're just like, I don't care
if I live or die.
The aimlessness of that is sotragic to me that I think it's
actually probably worse thanactive suicidal ideation you're
(25:45):
looking for something that'sgoing to fix it, even though
that something is a horriblesolution that doesn't solve
anything, which is suicide.
So the finality of that, there'sstill something of a vacation
planning aspect.
There's still somewhat of a gleearound it that I would never say
(26:06):
I could have had a hand in.
The way that I experienceddepression was just so crushing
that it didn't even matter if Ilived or died, which I think was
absent from any of thespiritedness that we can have if
we're actively consideringsuicide.
I think there's a difference.
SPEAKER_03 (26:25):
I think so too.
Was there anything going on inyour mind during that time that
kind of talked you off theledge?
SPEAKER_04 (26:32):
No, because it wasn't like I was actively going
to do it.
Like, I just didn't care.
Also, drinking is a depressant,so when you're in that mindset,
it's hard to break out of itbecause alcohol just depresses
you even more.
So it's very challenging.
I
SPEAKER_03 (26:50):
really applaud you for being sober and getting off
all of those medications and howit's a day-to-day struggle
having to remind yourself tostay sober.
What are some of the things thatyou do on a day-to-day basis to
keep you on track?
You already mentioned thingslike meditation and being
(27:11):
connected to community.
Are there any other thoughtsthat remind yourself to
SPEAKER_04 (27:16):
stay on track?
I do different kinds of servicepositions in my recovery
community every day.
I'm in meetings every day.
I mean, it's a big part of myday.
As soon as I wake up, usually Iwrite a joke, very first thing,
before I get out of bed.
I have a bunch of readings thatI do that are from different
kinds of recovery literaturethat changes all the time.
(27:36):
Then I have a 40-minutemeditation session And then I
usually have some kind ofinteraction with my recovery
community, you know, whetherthat's being of service
somewhere.
So it's a daily activity thatalways keeps it at the forefront
of my mind.
Even if I'm on a commute goingto work or something, I'm
(27:59):
listening to a meeting or I'mlistening to recovery podcast or
some kind of literature that isassociated with that.
I'm also connected with apodcast called Dopey, which is a
really important podcast that'sjust about the humorous side of
addiction, which is a reallyimportant resource for me.
I consume art and music that isall around addiction, but that's
(28:25):
sort of my favorite thing.
I love a movie like Requiem fora Dream or Trainspotting or
things that I really connectwith.
So most of the media that Iconsume is is around this
disease of addiction.
It's a big part of my identity.
SPEAKER_03 (28:42):
Yeah, that sounds like you're really entrenched in
it, which I think is soimportant because you're
constantly learning and you'reconstantly, you know, getting
more information on what to doand maybe even what not to do.
You wrote a song called FunnyMan, which is about Robin
Williams, who sadly passed awaydue to his mental health and
physical health.
(29:03):
I had read that you said humoris a traumatic response.
Yes.
Can you
SPEAKER_04 (29:09):
explain that?
I think that's interesting.
When you're dealing with trauma,you have to be able to overcome
it.
And sometimes the only way is tobe sarcastic about it, to make
fun of it, to lift yourself upout of it by ridiculing what's
making you feel so bad.
In a way, it is a kind ofsuperpower to take what's
(29:30):
negative and turn it intopositives.
It's a really important thing.
And if somebody has a highlydeveloped sense of humor, it
really comes from that personhaving had to cope with all
sorts of traumatic things.
That's just the way humorpresents itself.
That's the way that we getbetter at it is because we have
to keep on doing it.
So oftentimes funny people arebattling with a lot of things
(29:55):
that you don't see on thesurface.
I feel like
SPEAKER_03 (30:00):
comedy and music, even though we don't talk about
it that much, are like two ofthe greatest healers we have.
Because I know I get a lot ofjoy in both of those things.
Have you ever really thoughtabout yourself as a healer,
being a comedian and a musician?
SPEAKER_04 (30:17):
Yes, absolutely.
It's a big part of it,especially as a comedian,
because when people laugh,they're taking an unexpected
breath that ensures their nextmoment of life.
So you're life-affirming.
With people, you know, you'rearound them, you're making them
breathe when they didn't expectit.
(30:37):
So you're giving them unexpectedlife over and over.
You know, it's almost yoga.
Like it's a very spiritualthing.
And singing, you know, music andsinging and all that is
connected to like breath andlife.
And so for me, yeah, it's a verylife affirming thing to do those
both.
(30:58):
That's great.
Those are my two
SPEAKER_03 (30:59):
favorite things.
And one thing that I think oursociety believes is that drugs
and alcohol equals partying,which equals fun.
But then hopefully as we getolder, we realize that alcohol
and drugs can actually cause alot of drama and a lot of
(31:19):
negativity in relationships andcareer.
I had read that you said thatpartying sober is actually like
the greatest party.
SPEAKER_04 (31:28):
Yeah, I have a better time.
Now, more than ever, justpartying, like having fun with
friends and laughing andenjoying music, you know, just
being present, which is theopposite of drinking and using
drugs where you're just notpresent.
Now you're trying to erase thepresence of yourself and
(31:50):
everyone else.
So I definitely party harder nowthan ever before without any
kind of substance.
It's the best.
SPEAKER_03 (31:59):
What is your description of parting now as a
sober person?
I mean, what do you find thejoys in as far as parting now?
I
SPEAKER_04 (32:08):
like to go to shows.
I like to watch people perform.
I like to perform and do comedy.
I like to go see comedy.
I like to just enjoy the peoplethat I love.
I like to go out to eat.
I love eating.
Eating is a very big part of it,too.
SPEAKER_03 (32:25):
You know, when I was with Campus Circle, I remember I
asked you a question.
This was so many years ago.
And I said, you know, when youwere growing up in a Korean
family, was there anybody thatsupported you with your goals to
be an entertainer?
And you said nobody supportedyou, you know, that you didn't
find a lot of encouragement.
(32:46):
No.
Yeah.
And that's like in an Asianfamily.
I mean, I'm half Japanese andhalf Chinese.
My mother had dreams of mybrother being a lawyer, which
he's very much not one, and, youknow, us being in business or,
you know, something else.
Entertainment was not anacceptable career or a career
that was talked about in theAsian family, not in my family.
(33:10):
But I'm sensing people likeBowen Yang and Awkwafina and
Ronnie Chang and Jimmy Yang andall of these great entertainers
that are Asian are starting tokind of band together and and
create a foundation for eachother and build from there.
I mean, is that what you seehappening or is that just my
perception?
(33:30):
No,
SPEAKER_04 (33:31):
I think that's true.
I mean, and it's so, so, sowelcoming, you know, it's really
powerful.
So yeah, there's so muchcamaraderie and so much
affection that we Asiancomedians have for each other,
you know, because we have tobreak with tradition and break
with these ideas of who weshould be, whether that's
doctors or lawyers or whateverit is.
(33:52):
breaking out of this sort ofmodel minority myth.
So there's a lot of camaraderieand understanding and, you know,
great affection between all ofus.
That's really good to hear.
SPEAKER_03 (34:04):
This is my dog trying to jump up on the bed.
Rock it! You know what's funnyis I am so much calmer when he's
in my lap.
SPEAKER_04 (34:11):
Yeah, like I try to sync our heartbeats.
You know, we just sit alltogether, me and my animals, we
just sync our heartbeats.
It's really nice.
SPEAKER_03 (34:20):
Yeah, I find that just holding my dog immediately
calms me down.
And the great thing about my dogis I feel like he will let me do
whatever I want as far as likeforming his body on my body.
And it's just like the bestfeeling.
And sometimes it just helps meso much to go to sleep because
(34:43):
sleep is so important, you know,to our mental health and
everything else.
I've read articles where youmention your animals, and I was
wondering how your animals, howare they like a positive
foundation for your mentalhealth and sobriety?
Oh, they're
SPEAKER_04 (35:00):
everything.
I mean, they are so healing.
You know, they're just there forme.
And it also takes me out ofmyself to have to care for them.
You know, I have three cats andthis dog, and they're just
always around me, you know, andI...
really love that I get to takecare of them, but also they take
(35:20):
care of me.
You know, it's a constantcommunication.
I mean, Lucia, this dog is likealways somewhere on my body,
like Rocket.
She's like on my hip, you know,and all my cats sleep on me and
we just have a bond.
I really think that's the mosthealing thing in life is to have
(35:42):
this wonderful relationship withanimals i mean i have it also
outside you know there's 27 birdfeeders around a little bit less
bird stuff because i am wary ofbird flu but i for a long time
had fostered a lot of differentrelationships with the migrating
birds so i'm really about caringfor life in all its forms
(36:06):
whatever i can do but i yeah ilove animals
SPEAKER_03 (36:10):
Yeah, I think Rocket is my soulmate puppy because
just the feeling ofunconditional love that I get
from him and the joy that I getfrom giving to him as well as
receiving, it's what a true loverelationship should be.
Yes.
Right?
Yeah.
And sometimes we don't get
SPEAKER_04 (36:31):
that as much from humans.
I get so much more from animalsthan I do from human beings.
I have great human beings in mylife.
I have great friends and I havegreat relationships, but my
animals, I'm always seeking outtheir attention as well as them
seeking out my attention.
Like we're always there toaffirm each other and we're
(36:51):
always there for affection andit's just really magical.
It is.
SPEAKER_03 (36:56):
Is there anything else that you want to say about
mental health or addictionrecovery?
Well,
SPEAKER_04 (37:04):
it's the best thing to do, like to find out what's
making you feel bad and how toget to feeling good, that there
is a way to feel good, thatthere's no reason to spend your
life feeling bad.
If there's something you can doabout it, that's worth finding
what it is, whether that'sgetting sober, which for me is
like the most important thing.
(37:25):
But that might not be the choicefor everyone.
You know, that may be getting onthe right medication.
That might be getting the righttherapist.
Maybe it's getting out of arelationship.
You know, there's lots of thingsthat can be done to feel good
because I think naturally inthis world that you should be
able to feel good.
Despite my history and despitethe way that my brain works, I
(37:50):
actually feel good mostly allthe time.
And I'm like really happy mostlyall the time.
And that's a huge reasonincredible thing to go from not
wanting to live really, or notcaring if I lived or died, to
actually feeling really great.
So it's attainable.
Like mental health and happinessare really attainable things,
(38:11):
but they take some practicalsteps to get to where you're
going.
And the most important thing isto start taking those steps to
wherever that leads you, youknow, whether that's to
sobriety, whether that's totherapy, whatever it is.
SPEAKER_03 (38:26):
Yeah, I do believe it really is a journey because
things change throughout ourlives.
And, you know, sometimes onesolution will work for one
situation and sometimessomething else will work for
another situation.
And, you know, same withmedications or therapists.
So I thank you for being so openand honest.
(38:47):
I thank you for beingpersistent.
And I just thank you for sharingand for still being here and
having a lovely life.
This year, the Check Your Headpodcast is thrilled and honored
to be nominated for a People'sChoice Podcast Award in four
different categories.
But we need your help.
(39:08):
So visit podcastawards.com andplease vote for Check Your Head
Podcast, for the People's ChoiceAward, for Best Asian Hosted
Podcast, Best Health Podcast,and Best Music Podcast by July
31st.
It only takes a minute and wouldmean the world for us to win,
allowing us to continue ourmission to improve and save
(39:31):
lives by providing mental healthand addiction recovery
solutions.
Next, our expert Candice Koharaof Infinite Love Rescue not only
rescues dogs and cats, but isalso an educator for SPCA in Los
Angeles, which is a society forthe prevention of cruelty to
animals, teaching others how tobe responsible, caring pet
(39:53):
owners.
Candice also shares how animalscan support us and why rescue
pets can love the fiercest.
We had Margaret Cho talkingabout her animals always being
there for her, and she calledthem magical.
What made you decide thatrescuing animals would be part
of your life's
SPEAKER_02 (40:14):
work?
So I'm one of those ladies thatstray dogs on the street and
I'll jump out of my car and I'llget my leash and I'll chase
after them until I can rescuethem.
So I thought that, oh, well,maybe that's my life purpose.
So that combined with my soulpup, Boo, who passed away, I
wanted to do something in honorof him, who is also on my logo.
(40:37):
I created Infinite Love AnimalRescue.
SPEAKER_03 (40:42):
Well, you know, one thing that I read on your
website, which I thought wasreally cool, it says dogs know
when they've been rescued.
They're the ones that love thefiercest.
Can you tell me the differencebetween adopting a rescue dog
versus like a regular dog or apuppy?
A
SPEAKER_02 (41:00):
lot of dogs are from the shelter or discarded on the
streets.
They've had to fend forthemselves and they know what
it's like to be dumped.
They know and they have theemotional feelings to understand
what happened to them.
So when we rescue them, I thinkthey are truly grateful and
appreciative of us and thereforeeven more loyal.
(41:22):
Like they've seen the dark sideof being on the streets and in
the shelters, not being lovedlike we could love them.
And I think that you're saving alife.
For example, Harmony, she wasfrom an unwanted litter and she
was going to be surrendered tothe animal shelter.
So I rescued her.
I saved her.
And I feel a lot more rewardedby that.
(41:43):
We just have a deeperconnection.
SPEAKER_03 (41:44):
My first dog, I adopted from a loving family.
And then when I adopted Rocket,there was that difference.
I mean, when I gave Rocket hisfirst meal, he just licked my
face in such appreciation.
He was so thankful.
And he did that for a long time.
(42:07):
I do think that Rocket is somuch more appreciative than my
first dog, who was alsowonderful, but in a different
way.
And at the same time, there'ssomething about taking care of
Rocket as a rescue that makes mefeel so good.
And the fact that he does thesame for me, it's just like this
really wonderful relationshipthat we have.
(42:29):
And I really feel like he's mysoulmate.
I like my little soulmate puppy.
SPEAKER_02 (42:35):
Yeah, I believe in soulmate puppies.
And I just think when weconnect, it's such a wonderful,
meaningful relationship.
SPEAKER_03 (42:41):
What are some challenges that you come across,
you know, hearing from otherparents that adopt rescues?
SPEAKER_02 (42:48):
Some other challenges might be, for
example, we rescued a dog namedFergus, and he was from a
hoarding situation.
So when we rescued him, heactually was very scared.
He didn't know affection.
He didn't know the human touch.
He couldn't handle any kind ofnoise.
Everything just scared him.
Like at my house, he would justgo to the corner and just hide.
(43:10):
So I think that's part of atransitional thing.
And it just takes a lot of timeand patience.
So we did the best we can to gethim into his adopted home.
But we also tell the adoptivefamily that.
So they know his history, whathe's been through, how far he's
come along.
And it's up to them to reallyjust continue that transitional
(43:31):
time until he really understandswhat it is to be loved and in a
wonderful family home.
SPEAKER_03 (43:36):
You know, it did take a while for Rocket because
Rocket was really scared.
I mean, he could not even walkaround the block because every
single sound, he would freeze.
He just wouldn't move.
But I gave him as much time ashe needed and to get used to the
situation.
I give him a lot of love andattention.
(43:58):
And it really does feel good tosee a dog like Rocket sort of
blossom.
He did the same at the dog parkwhere he was hiding behind my
feet before he finally came outand started socializing with the
other dogs and running around.
So that also brought me a lot ofjoy to know that he was feeling
(44:21):
more comfortable and Just thefeeling of trust that he has
with me makes me feel reallygood.
Our
SPEAKER_02 (44:28):
specialty is actually rescuing dogs like
Rocket who are shy and scaredbecause I just really like to
love them up, like just givethem all the love and comfort.
I guess that's my specialty isto just really love.
That's why we're called InfiniteLove and to help dogs blossom
into their full potential.
SPEAKER_03 (44:46):
Well, you mentioned being a licensed spiritual
counselor, and I was reallyinterested in that because I
haven't heard of that before.
What does that mean?
It's
SPEAKER_02 (44:55):
kind of the same as a therapist.
It's akin to a therapist, but weuse spiritual principle to help
heal.
And that includes like prayerand meditation.
We also do contemplation andthose kinds of exercises to help
reveal your inner beauty or yourinner loves.
help you blossom as well.
We like to see all the good inyou and we see that until you
(45:19):
see it for yourself.
I should say the ministry that Isupported when I was at Agape
was the animal kinship ministry.
So basically we would pray withpeople around their dog, like
say Rocket had an illness, thenwe would pray with you and
affirm all the good things thatare happening, affirm peace in
your life and healing and I alsofacilitated the Animal
(45:42):
Bereavement Grief Support Group,which was really fascinating,
amazing.
We would come together, all thepeople who lost their pet.
It could be people who losttheir guinea pigs, rabbits, all
kinds of animals.
And we get together and we sharestories about our animals and we
all take time even showingpictures.
And then we would start with aprayer and end with a prayer.
SPEAKER_03 (46:02):
People don't realize how much grief and how much loss
you feel Because when ouranimals pass away, they are like
our children.
And I do believe that strongemotions like that really need
to be looked at and expressed toreally feel healing.
SPEAKER_02 (46:20):
We like to provide a safe space for people to share
without judgment because a lotof people just want to be heard
and share their stories withoutany unsolicited advice.
Just kind of a nice safe spaceto share our emotions and
feelings without any judgment.
SPEAKER_03 (46:36):
One thing that I read is that you are also a
humane educator, and that's forthe society, for the prevention
of cruelty to animals.
What is it that you're trying toteach people, you know, as an
educator?
SPEAKER_02 (46:50):
One of the programs that we teach are pet
responsibility and how to safelymeet and greet animals.
For example, we go to ArlingtonElementary School every year,
and we do a fifth grade program,and we teach all the tools that
you need to have a dog to be aresponsible pet owner.
At the end of the program, wehave other dogs that are
(47:12):
child-friendly come to the classand the kids line up and they
get to meet the dogs one at atime.
And we teach like ask, and thenyou bend down and then you lift
up your fist and the dog sniffsand then you pet their chin.
So that's how we teach the kidsto do it.
And it's such a greatopportunity because a lot of
these children haven't even peta dog before or are scared of
(47:35):
dogs.
So we teach them how to safelydo that.
And I think it's so rewarding.
SPEAKER_03 (47:40):
You know, you mentioned that a lot of rescued
animals have a lot of fear orthey could be triggered by
things that could cause anxiety.
Do you have any tips on what youcan do for the mental health of
a dog when you first adopt them?
Well, I like to give a
SPEAKER_02 (47:56):
lot of space and I like to take it easy with the
dog.
For example, we always teach tobend down to their level.
So just like humans, I don'tlike to impose on their space.
Everyone has their own timing.
And so with dogs, we give themtheir own space and we slowly
pet them and we give them treatsthat they might love.
And it just takes time andpatience.
SPEAKER_03 (48:19):
Yeah, that's what I found with Rocket.
So what are some of the waysthat dogs and rescue animals can
help with our mental health?
Some
SPEAKER_02 (48:29):
of the ways that dogs can help is they do help
reduce anxiety.
They help reduce stress anddepression.
There's scientific backing tothat.
They also encourage physicalactivity, you know, because you
have to walk the dog and you gooutside, being in nature and the
sun and air.
That also helps with mentalhealth and social interaction.
(48:50):
Dogs help in so many ways.
They're just unconditionallyloving animals.
And they increase oxytocin,which is the cuddle hormone.
You know, we look at our dogsand how often do we just want to
cuddle them, right?
Yeah, you know, when I grab
SPEAKER_03 (49:05):
Rocket, put him on my chest, I feel like the whole
world melts away.
All my stress melts away.
I've never felt so safe andprotected at nighttime.
I know that he is listening24-7.
And he can be so strong andfierce when he feels like I'm in
danger.
I really feel like he would puthis life on the line for me.
(49:27):
And when you're talking aboutunconditional love, their love
is so pure.
There's an innocence to it.
And they're so expressive withhow excited they are to see you.
It's
SPEAKER_02 (49:40):
like coming home to your dog, right?
Whenever I come home, she's justso excited and her eyes light up
and it's just amazing feeling.
SPEAKER_03 (49:47):
Yeah, I feel like a rocket does like a happy dance.
It just feels so good to be thatappreciated, actually.
Yeah, exactly.
We also talk about addiction.
Do you know how animals might beable to benefit somebody that's
in recovery?
SPEAKER_02 (50:04):
I mean, I knew somebody who was recovering and
he had to sleep on my couch fora few months.
And while I helped him cope andfind his way, I was fostering
this dog named Woody.
It was a dog that I rescued froma shelter in Los Angeles.
And he had a broken leg thatnever healed right, so he
(50:25):
limped.
But he was this cute littlefour-pound minpin chihuahua.
And my friend that was sittingon my couch recovering, he never
really thought or cared about adog.
But because I brought in so manyanimals, he just connected with
Woody.
Woody would come home and dogsjust connect with somebody.
They find that person andthey're completely loyal.
(50:45):
So They just connected, andwhenever he was laying in bed,
he would just open up hiscovers, and then Woody would
just slip right in, and theywould cuddle.
And it really helped him.
And at the end, he wanted toadopt the dog, but he just
wasn't ready.
But we did see him light up, andit was just an amazing
connection.
SPEAKER_03 (51:04):
Yeah, I had a roommate, and her dog would go
to the hospitals and meet withthe patients and with children.
And there's such a calmingpresence with animals.
I also hear about when dogs orcats are brought into the
workplace.
That also seems to reduceanxiety and also kind of boost
(51:27):
creativity.
I think whenever we feel lessstressed, we're able to be more
creative.
And I also think that dogs teachus certain things that we could
incorporate into our own lives.
Is there anything that you couldthink of that you've learned
from dogs that you wouldincorporate into your own life?
SPEAKER_02 (51:46):
Yeah, I wrote an article about how Boo, my soul
pup, was my four-legged guru.
And he taught me a lot ofthings.
Like he taught me how to forgivebecause he would forgive
anything.
You know, he was just sounconditionally loving that I
felt like if I did anything,like if I was gone all day or
something happened, that hewould always forgive me.
Also, he taught me living in thepresent moment.
(52:08):
Rocket, do you think he'sthinking about the past or the
future?
No, he's thinking about yourmoment together.
They also teach you playfulnessto embrace your inner child.
That's just such a gift becauseas adults, we lose that inner
child and we lose theplayfulness.
And I think that's something toremember that we need to bring
back into our lives.
(52:29):
Simple pleasures, just thelittle things in life that just
bring them so much joy.
SPEAKER_03 (52:33):
Good point.
One thing that I also noticedwith my dogs is that they're
very intuitive and they trusttheir intuition.
Like for instance, with my firstdog, There was always a time
when we would walk.
She was off the leash for a bit.
And I remember I would look bothways.
(52:53):
And as soon as I knew it wastime to cross the street, she
would run across the street.
She would always know when itwas clear.
And she always got that feelingfrom me.
Though I feel like as humans, wealso have that intuition.
But sometimes our brains get inthe way and we doubt.
(53:14):
our intuitions, but I feel likeanimals trust it and they act
upon it.
And I've learned to really trustmy own intuition because my dog
does that so well.
SPEAKER_02 (53:25):
Yeah, exactly.
I think so too.
I believe definitely animals areintuitive as well as all of us.
And how many times do we hear orsee that red flag and we still
proceed?
It's just sad that we oftendon't listen to those
intuitions, but the more mindfulwe get, I think we're in tune
with that.
and that we could see thingsthat are coming or forthcoming.
SPEAKER_03 (53:46):
You've been doing animal rescue for about 20
years, being involved as avolunteer, fostering dogs.
Is there anything else that youwould like to say about the
benefits of a rescue animal orhow they can help with mental
health?
SPEAKER_02 (54:04):
They are really great to have in the house and
to have in your life.
I for sure could never livewithout a dog or a fur baby.
They just bring so much joy.
They get me out of the house,and when I come home and they
greet me, it's so important.
And rescuing is so rewarding.
As a rescuer, it is verychallenging and difficult.
(54:25):
I mean, there's many times thatI've cried, I've been angry, and
all of these things that happento animals that don't need to
happen.
I just think if we could allrescue, spay and neuter, it's A
lot of animals die in theshelters because there's not
enough room and people keepbreeding when they could rescue.
Adoption is the way to go.
If we keep buying pets, thenwe're encouraging breeders to
(54:50):
breed.
And I think there are just somany loving animals that could
use a home.
And I just encourage everybodyto adopt.
SPEAKER_03 (54:58):
I agree.
And who's not to love pets?
being loved unconditionally.
So I want to thank you, Candice,for everything that you do, for
these beautiful dogs and cats,and also for bringing Rocket
into my life.
I call him my dream dog.
I just love him so much.
I really
SPEAKER_02 (55:16):
do.
They're just such a blessing.
I couldn't imagine a differentpath for my life.
SPEAKER_03 (55:23):
A big thank you to our musical guest, Margaret Cho,
and our expert, Candice Kuohara.
For more information on MargaretCho, visit margaretscho.com,
where you can stream her LuckyGift album, buy tickets to her
stand-up comedy tour,Choligarchy, and stay tuned for
a clip of Margaret's single,Lucky Gift.
(55:43):
For more information on CandiceKuwahara and Infinite Love
Rescue, and the Fur Baby LoveFest free event, visit
infiniteloverescue.org.
Follow at Check Your HeadPodcast on your social media.
watch and subscribe Check YourHead Podcast's YouTube channel,
and visitcheckyourheadpodcast.com for the
largest online list of free andaffordable mental health and
(56:07):
addiction recovery solutions.
So until next time, be brave,ask for help, and be persistent
in finding the mental health andaddiction recovery you need.
SPEAKER_01 (56:27):
But I think that it's okay Entropy's a loaded gun
Shots are fired but you misssomeone You will read your
(56:50):
Russian prose Put it down tocurl my toes
SPEAKER_03 (57:33):
Check Your Head Podcast is kindly supported and
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Visit checkyourheadpodcast.comwhere we have over 100 solutions
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Be our friends on social media.
at Check Your Head Podcast.
(57:54):
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Thank you for your support andthank you for listening.
Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, the podcast
where notable musicians andexperts share stories and
solutions for mental health andaddiction recovery.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist, and today's
featured guest you might knowmore as a comedian.
Yet this Grammy-nominatedsinger-songwriter has dropped
(00:23):
three studio albums and is alsoknown for her bold, outspoken
activism.
and is a true legend and atrailblazer.
Today's guest is the greatMargaret Cho, who recently
dropped her new album, LuckyGift, and will soon be on her
comedy tour, Choligarchy.
Margaret gives a no-holds-barredinterview, talking about
(00:45):
multiple addictions, includingopiates and alcohol, being
bedridden for a month whiledetoxing, then sharing her
solutions for how she survivedit all and how she now lives a
happy, sober life with herbeloved pet spider side.
We'll also play a clip of hersingle, Lucky Gift, at the end
of our episode.
(01:05):
Next, our featured expert isCandice Kuwahara, owner of the
non-profit Infinite Love Rescue.
For over 20 years, Candice hasvolunteered for rescue
organizations, with her missionbeing to find forever homes for
animals who have been abandoned.
Her annual Fur Baby Love Festthis October 5th is a free event
(01:29):
featuring low-cost animalservices and fun activities like
a fur baby costume contest.
Candice and I will be talkingabout how pets can support our
mental health and why adopting arescue is so worth it.
But first, let's hear musician,comedian, and actress Margaret
Cho share her story.
(01:52):
I was at the Grammy Museum showand I was really touched by you
speaking out on mental healthand people that you knew that
passed, Elliot Smith and MacMiller.
So I really wanted you to be onthe podcast.
So thank you.
Thank you.
I kind of wanted to go back intoyour past a bit.
I read that you had beenmolested and raped when you were
(02:15):
younger, which is reallytraumatic.
And I'm wondering after that,that period of your life
happened, how did that changeyour view of yourself?
SPEAKER_04 (02:26):
I think what it does is it makes you feel very unsafe
in your body.
And for me, it made sex, anykind of sex, super weird.
So then for a long time, Ididn't ever want to have sex
without being drunk or highbecause it was just a weird
experience.
I didn't know how to let gophysically in a consensual
sexual encounter because I justwas so uncomfortable with just
(02:50):
the feeling of sexuality ingeneral.
So much of that being pairedwith alcohol and drugs, it
creates a problem over time.
Like you can't really do that.
Also, you're not reallyconnecting with the other
person.
That was the most damagingaspect is that when you come
from abuse, like you don't knowhow to relate to sex as like a
normal thing.
And then using drugs and alcoholto attain a kind of sexuality
(03:14):
was also very destructive.
I don't know if my perception ofmyself altered.
It was more my perception ofsexuality was compromised
because I just couldn't imaginedoing it without being high or
drunk.
I would need a substance inorder to be able to connect with
(03:38):
anyone, to even go on a date.
I would need to be drinking.
I would need to be doing drugs.
There's just like no options.
SPEAKER_03 (03:46):
You know, I hear that sometimes after a trauma
like that, you can act out indifferent ways.
I think in your early teens, youhad been like a sex operator or?
Oh,
SPEAKER_04 (03:57):
yeah, I was a phone sex operator.
And then I would record messagesto be listened to on a phone sex
line.
And then I was not a gooddominatrix.
I'm terrible at that.
So I was like really bad becauseI didn't really do that job very
well.
And it wasn't for long, just onetime.
I wouldn't count that as areaction to abuse.
(04:20):
That's probably more of areaction to like doing drugs,
drinking at an early age andkind of having no rules.
When I was a teenager, I startedto being comedian really young.
I started when I was 14.
I actually started to kind ofmake a living at it when I was
like around 16 and 17.
So I was really doing my ownthing.
I would go back and forth.
(04:42):
Like I would go back and move inwith my parents for a little
while and then leave again.
But there was no real sense ofanything running my life except
for wanting to be a comedian,wanting to be an artist,
partying and kind of getting anyjob that I could.
So that it was sex work was notreally a reaction to my own
(05:03):
sexual abuse.
It's just a thing that happened.
And I don't really have anyjudgment about it either way.
Like, I don't find being a sexworker is damaging.
I don't think it was evenremotely damaging.
anything worse than what I wasalready doing, which is very
damaging to drink alcohol at ayoung age, you know, in your
(05:23):
teens when your brain is stilldeveloping and doing drugs when
your brain is still developing.
I think those things were farworse.
SPEAKER_03 (05:31):
Well, I'd read that you had tried all kinds of
different drugs and alcohol, butyou chose something that I
thought was really interesting,which was opium.
And I was wondering, like, Whatdid you find that particular
drug as being seductive to you?
Well,
SPEAKER_04 (05:51):
opiates in general, I only tried opium a couple of
times, a couple of times inIndia and a couple of times like
a fish show.
You know, when you're going tosee a jam band, you get to try
all sorts of very experimentalor very ancient drugs like
opium.
Hard to get.
I've tried to make it before.
You can get the bulbs orwhatever.
(06:13):
I could try to Martha Stewartthat stuff, but I don't have the
energy to do that kind of stuff.
I would actually love to growpoppies now.
That would be a nice thing todo.
That would be really beautiful.
But I actually have quite a fewcactus, like the San Pedro
cactus, which you could probablymake mescaline from.
Those are such magnificentcactus.
(06:35):
I would never want to cut themup.
But yeah, I love...
Anything opiate, like anythingin the opiate family, whether
that's Percocet or Norcos or anyof that, you know, going to
Oxycontin, heroin, fentanyl,those are my drugs of choice in
general.
SPEAKER_03 (06:54):
And what was it about those drugs that really
was attractive to you?
SPEAKER_04 (06:59):
Well, it was a feeling of safety and warmth
that was very short-lived.
it was a kind of sense offorgetting.
Also, you have like, if you doenough, those kinds of drugs,
and I like anything sleepy.
So I like alcohol.
I like benzodiazepines, anythinglike a muscle relaxant, those
(07:20):
things that are sleepy becauseyou also have great memory loss.
So that's actually a problem,but it's kind of fun.
I think it's just a verydamaging way to live, but I am
definitely a downer person.
I never did well with cocaine orcrystal meth or Any of the
uppers, I don't even drinkcoffee.
You know, I'm very anti any ofthose things.
(07:43):
So I'm much of a downer lady.
Interesting.
SPEAKER_03 (07:47):
Because I've read that you described yourself as a
depressive personality.
And so to choose something thatis more of a downer, it would be
something that I wouldn't guess.
SPEAKER_04 (07:58):
Yeah, it's interesting.
But opiates, the thing about itis you get the opposite effect.
So at first you get a burst ofenergy and then it's very
optimistic and everything isgoing to be okay and
everything's fantastic.
But then you get the other sidewhere you're sort of coming down
and then you're sick and it'slike they're depressed and it's
the worst feeling.
It's actually the worst drugbecause it's the least payoff
(08:21):
for what you're doing, all thatyou sacrifice in your life for
it.
So It's really the big lie.
Like opiates are kind of the biglie of all medicines because
they don't really offer relief.
I mean, probably do if you'reactually in physical pain and
need to deal with it.
But I wish never, ever usinganything like that for physical
(08:44):
pain.
SPEAKER_03 (08:45):
Okay.
And then it sounds like alcoholwas sort of like, kind of like a
foundation medication for
SPEAKER_04 (08:51):
you.
It's always there.
It's always a part of it.
It has to be a part of it.
I was never a pure drug addict.
I always had to include alcohol.
There was never a moment withoutthat, you know.
And the combination, if drugsand alcohol are mixed are really
destructive.
Like it's really bad for yourbody.
It's really bad for your brain,which is why I'm so conscious
(09:12):
now of things like dementia orAlzheimer's.
Like I'm very concerned aboutall of the damage that I was
doing in the early part of mylife.
So now I'm very much aboutgrowing my brain, whether that's
writing, reading.
I always play music every day togrow my brain.
SPEAKER_03 (09:32):
Yeah, playing music is so great as an exercise
because it exercises so manyparts of your brain at the same
time.
So with the opiates and thealcohol, and you're talking
about how destructive it is, canyou give like a couple examples
of things that happened in yourlife that were just really
dangerous at the time?
SPEAKER_04 (09:52):
The way that I like to drink alcohol I like to drink
a couple of bottles of wine.
Then I like to take a bunch ofdrugs that are not prescribed to
me.
Then I like to get in my car anddrive to a violent man's house.
That's like so many ways I couldhave died.
Like a couple of people thatI've dated, like guys we're
really into, killed their wives.
Like I'm attracted to dangerouspeople.
(10:13):
Okay, I could have had alcoholpoisoning.
I could have OD'd on combiningbenzodiazepines and opiates and
alcohol.
I could have gotten a caraccident.
I could have gotten strangled bysome dude.
Like, I can't even count thetimes that I did that.
It's a miracle that I'm alive.
(10:34):
It's really baffling to me thatI'm alive.
But because I am now, I reallymake the most of living by I'm
very active.
Anybody can be super sober.
I actually am.
But yeah, there's so many times.
that kind of stuff happened.
Like Ayuna just died like amillion times every
SPEAKER_03 (10:55):
day.
I mean, at the Grammy Museum,you had that program and you
talked a lot about that guy whowas a murderer.
And it was so scary to hearabout that and how he pushed you
down the stairs.
And you said that you visitedviolent men.
I mean, did they get violentwith
SPEAKER_04 (11:11):
you?
No, but it was more like theviolence was like, if it had
gone any further in therelationships or whatever, it
was like, oh yeah, I'd be dead.
Like, I'm just choosing peoplethat are unsafe.
Fortunately, nothing happened.
Fortunately, I was neveractually killed or physically
(11:31):
hurt in that way.
But when you're in that kind ofcompany, you don't know what's
going to happen.
SPEAKER_03 (11:37):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I'm glad that nothinghappened that was violent
towards you.
And I'm wondering if you tiethat to any of the sexual abuse
that you had in the past.
SPEAKER_02 (11:51):
Probably, but
SPEAKER_04 (11:52):
it's unconscious.
That's probably related.
I just don't know, because Iwasn't making the choices to be
with them in a sober mind.
All of these choices were madedrunk and high.
If I am choosing these partnersbecause of my history of abuse,
that's probably more of anunconscious decision, which we
make all the time, regardless ofour state of mind.
(12:14):
Although I know now, as I'vebeen sober, I've been much more
judicious about Therelationships, especially sexual
relationships that I have,they've all been really
nourishing and safe.
And that's been in the lastdecade.
So I can say that for sure, youknow, like I definitely make the
right choices as a sober person.
(12:35):
But when I'm not sober, then Idon't know what I'm doing.
SPEAKER_03 (12:38):
Yeah, it's just dangerous all around as far as
the decision making.
Yeah, because you're not reallyin your right mind at the time.
And people can change intodifferent people when they're in
their addiction.
So there's that as well.
I was reading about when you hadyour intervention and two of
(13:00):
your friends were sitting withyou while this was going on to
prevent you from running ortrying to get away.
Because I would not.
I
SPEAKER_04 (13:09):
just was really protecting my alcoholism.
Like I was not going to stopdrinking.
I was like, you're not going tomake me stop drinking.
That's the one thing that I'mnot doing.
And that's the weird thing aboutit.
Even if we're like dying, we'lllike die to protect it.
I was gonna drink.
I'm like, I don't care what yousay.
I don't care what you do.
I'm not gonna stop drinking.
And that's final.
(13:29):
So I wasn't really enthusedabout going to treatment, but I
knew like when I got totreatment that I was too
physically weak to leave.
So I had to complete itregardless of what I wanted.
I mean, I was just, I can'tactually run away, so I have to
(13:50):
stay here.
That was kind of it.
They basically brought me up tothe top of a hill, and I was
just too weak to climb down.
So I'm glad.
I'm glad, but it was not mydecision to get sober.
It was not my decision at all.
I was forced into it.
I'm really grateful that ithappened.
But if that had not happened, Iwould definitely be dead by now,
(14:11):
for sure.
SPEAKER_03 (14:12):
Well, when you go into rehab and it's against your
will, At what point do youchange and say, I'm going to
embrace this?
SPEAKER_04 (14:23):
I did right away because I had no choice.
I had to embrace it because Icouldn't, by my own strength,
walk out of the facility.
I was too physically weak.
I had just trashed my body andmy system so much that I
couldn't even walk.
I was bedridden for almost anentire month when they had to
(14:47):
pharmaceutically ease me off ofevery drug that I was on and all
the alcohol that I was on.
So it was a very slow process ofweaning my body off of all of
these substances.
There were so many.
It was like insane.
Opiates, benzodiazepines, all ofthose in combination.
Like if you stop drinking, itcan kill you.
(15:07):
Like if you're not dependent onalcohol, it can kill you.
Benzodiazepines, if you juststop, you can have seizures.
You can have a stroke.
You could die.
Opiates just make you feel likeyou're going to die.
So all those three together.
And then Kratom, which isanother one.
Marijuana, which is super weird.
Adderall, which I don't evenlike.
I don't know why I was takingit, but I was on it.
A million things.
Like I had to be weaned off ofso many things.
(15:30):
That was like, I couldn't evenget out of bed.
So Kratom.
Kratom is this.
Oh, it's so gross.
They have it now in the gasstation.
People can buy it at a head shopor it's legal.
It's an opiate-like thing.
leaf that they do extractionsfrom and people are taking it
(15:52):
now as a way to wean themselvesoff of like fentanyl.
But it's a drug on its own andit fills up the opiate receptor
so it has the same kind ofreaction in your system as
opiates.
But you can get really addictedto it very quickly and you can
get very sick if you stop takingit.
(16:13):
So There's a lot of people nowwho are really addicted to
Kratom.
And I was an early adopter tothat almost 10 years ago.
But yeah, that was a horriblething to withdraw from.
That and benzodiazepines arereally very difficult to get out
of your system.
SPEAKER_03 (16:32):
Oh, gosh.
Okay.
So first of all, you've beenreally brave and persistent to
go through all of that becauserelapse and going to rehab is
all part of Addiction.
It's pretty common to go throughebbs and flows.
What was your greatest fearbefore going into rehab?
SPEAKER_04 (16:53):
That I would not be able to handle life without a
substance, that I would have tolive without drinking.
I don't even know what thatwould be like.
Now it's been almost 10 yearsand now I know, but that was my
greatest fear to stop drinking.
And I'm still afraid of that,even though I don't drink
alcohol, like I'm still afraid.
That's still kind of like afear.
It's weird.
(17:13):
But I do a lot to hopefullyprevent relapse.
I don't want to, I don't haveany plans to relapse, but you
know, it's always a possibility.
When you look in your past, canyou think of triggers that have
caused you to relapse?
What causes it is pulling awayfrom my recovery community.
(17:37):
What causes it is not beinginvolved in recovery actively
every day.
What causes it is like kind ofgoing, well, I guess I don't
really need to do that kind ofstuff anymore.
For me, what that causes is sortof forgetting that I need to
engage every day in my recoverywork or else I will lose it.
So I do it rigorously every day.
(18:00):
I have a very strong...
recovery program that is most ofmy social life.
Most of my social life is comedyand then music and then
recovery.
So all my friends are in one ofthose communities.
SPEAKER_03 (18:14):
Well, one thing I'm curious about is the whole
process of recovery.
What did you learn aboutyourself and how to heal during
that whole process?
SPEAKER_04 (18:27):
I think what I learned about myself is was that
I really have to be diligentabout my sobriety because I will
always look for loopholes andlike, what could I do?
You know, that's cheating alittle bit.
Like I like to beat the systemand I like to cheat and I like
(18:49):
to look for loopholes and howcan I find the cheat code and
that kind of stuff.
So that's really important tonot look for loopholes and to
really be committed to it.
I also learned that I think Ihave a hard time coping with
strong emotions, like strongemotions are kind of drug for
me.
So I can be altered by a strongemotion where I think that
(19:10):
normal people aren't, you know,and so now I have to look for
coping mechanisms or search fora way to cope with things.
And part of that is coping withthe idea of coping beforehand.
So part of that is meditation.
I have a really strongmeditation practice, which I do
every day with real diligence,that will help me quiet my mind
(19:33):
in situations which aretriggering, which are strong
emotions, which is anything thatis a big feeling.
It's going to get me going,whether it's positive or
negative.
So getting a handle on mentalhealth before I need a solution
is the key.
So for me, it's building astrong recovery community,
(19:53):
building a strong network ofpeople I can reach out to who
also reach out to me.
and meditation.
SPEAKER_03 (20:01):
Let's say you have a strong emotion, whether it's
anger or sadness or grief.
And I think what happens isthat, you know, people try to
grab the fastest thing that'sgoing to make them feel good,
right?
And sometimes it's drugs andalcohol.
But now we're at a point whereyou're conscious and you're
like, okay, this is a strongemotion.
What are your go-tos?
SPEAKER_04 (20:23):
I just leave.
Like I was at a memorial servicefor somebody I love very much.
And the circumstances of herdeath were terrible.
And everybody was talking aboutit.
And they were also drinking.
They all had alcohol.
And everybody was drinking andtalking about it.
And, you know, it's getting verygraphic detail.
And I was getting really upset.
(20:43):
And I just left.
And it was like the worst thingbecause I didn't get to
memorialize her.
I had to leave.
Like, it was rude.
And it sucked.
But I was safeguarding my sanityand my sobriety by just walking
out.
And I think a lot of timespeople are unwilling to leave a
(21:04):
social situation when it'sperceived as awkward.
But I just do it.
Like if I feel awkward oruncomfortable, I just walk out.
And it's so rude.
I do it all the time.
I'm probably on the spectrum insome way because there's only
certain things that much I cantolerate.
And then I have to walk out.
Like I just have to walk out.
It used to be where I would justgo to the bar and get a drink,
(21:27):
you know, to solve it.
But now I just leave.
So if I'm at a show that I'm notvibing, I just walk out.
It's so rude, but it's solifesaving, you know?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (21:38):
And I don't know if it's necessarily rude all the
time.
I think that people are startingto understand that, you know,
taking even five minutes to getyourself together.
I've read that you're kind of ashy person.
As well, I grew up super shy,and I've learned to be an
extrovert, which I'm sure youhave as well, you know, being an
(21:59):
entertainer.
But I find that if I getoverwhelmed, I might take five
minutes in the stairwell bymyself, and that is so
recharging for me.
You know, it kind of centersyou.
I know how you might feel likeit's being rude, but I think
people are starting tounderstand that you're keeping
your mental health as apriority.
SPEAKER_04 (22:22):
Yeah, it's good.
It's actually very healing andimportant to kind of know your
own boundaries and what you'reable to deal with and what
you're able to do and notcompromise those because of the
comfort of others.
So I'm really grateful to kindof do that now and know that
now.
But yeah, if I feel like off, Ijust remove myself.
SPEAKER_03 (22:41):
Well, you know, that kind of brings me to the
question about Mental health andaddiction recovery and the music
industry.
You know, oftentimes I'll ask,you know, what can the music
industry do to help musicians inthis area?
But I'm asking you now, what canmusicians do to be the leader or
(23:02):
be stronger or more persistentin voicing their needs as far as
protecting their mental healthor sobriety?
SPEAKER_04 (23:11):
Well, I think what's cool is that their sobriety
community has risen up around alot of music events.
Like if you go to any majorfestival, there's always going
to be some kind of 12-stepmeeting around there, like that
people will organize themselvesand do that.
Like that's super cool,especially like music festivals,
which are just all about drugsand partying.
You know, you want to know thatthere's a safety net there and
(23:35):
that exists and that's great.
Also, I think what's soincredible is the fact that
there's so much recovery on Zoomso that musicians on tour can
access any of that 24 hours aday, wherever they are in the
world.
And that's really powerful.
Like over the years of my, youknow, different connections with
sobriety, not having the accessto 12-step meetings was a real
(24:01):
hindrance because I was on tourall the time and I would not
want to get myself to like, goto a meeting, especially if I
was tired or traveling.
You know, you just don't feelmotivated to.
But if it's online, it's such agreat resource.
So there's a lot of thingshappening 24 hours a day that
you can have access to anywhere,which is powerful.
So I think that's reallyimportant.
(24:22):
I think so, too.
And I
SPEAKER_03 (24:24):
don't think people realize that you could be
anonymous, especially online.
You could turn off your videocamera.
You can use a different name,and you could still have that
connection with a support groupor with a Zoom therapy session,
you know, whether it's with atherapist or a psychiatrist or
even just with a close friend,connecting that way as a
(24:46):
solution to maybe a strongemotion.
You know, one thing I read wasthere was a time where you felt
very low and you werecontemplating suicide and you
had even attempted at
SPEAKER_04 (25:01):
one point.
No, that's not right because Iwas so high and drunk when I did
it that it wasn't even asuicide.
That's homicide.
Like I wasn't even aware that Itried to commit suicide.
Like I wasn't even actually incharge of it.
So it's like not, I wouldn'tconsider it suicide.
What's sad is that I wasn'tactually suicidal.
(25:22):
I just didn't care if I lived ordied.
which is actually worse thanbeing suicidal because at least
with suicidal, you're kind ofgoal-oriented or you're like, I
have something I wanna do, butyou're just like, I don't care
if I live or die.
The aimlessness of that is sotragic to me that I think it's
actually probably worse thanactive suicidal ideation you're
(25:45):
looking for something that'sgoing to fix it, even though
that something is a horriblesolution that doesn't solve
anything, which is suicide.
So the finality of that, there'sstill something of a vacation
planning aspect.
There's still somewhat of a gleearound it that I would never say
(26:06):
I could have had a hand in.
The way that I experienceddepression was just so crushing
that it didn't even matter if Ilived or died, which I think was
absent from any of thespiritedness that we can have if
we're actively consideringsuicide.
I think there's a difference.
SPEAKER_03 (26:25):
I think so too.
Was there anything going on inyour mind during that time that
kind of talked you off theledge?
SPEAKER_04 (26:32):
No, because it wasn't like I was actively going
to do it.
Like, I just didn't care.
Also, drinking is a depressant,so when you're in that mindset,
it's hard to break out of itbecause alcohol just depresses
you even more.
So it's very challenging.
I
SPEAKER_03 (26:50):
really applaud you for being sober and getting off
all of those medications and howit's a day-to-day struggle
having to remind yourself tostay sober.
What are some of the things thatyou do on a day-to-day basis to
keep you on track?
You already mentioned thingslike meditation and being
(27:11):
connected to community.
Are there any other thoughtsthat remind yourself to
SPEAKER_04 (27:16):
stay on track?
I do different kinds of servicepositions in my recovery
community every day.
I'm in meetings every day.
I mean, it's a big part of myday.
As soon as I wake up, usually Iwrite a joke, very first thing,
before I get out of bed.
I have a bunch of readings thatI do that are from different
kinds of recovery literaturethat changes all the time.
(27:36):
Then I have a 40-minutemeditation session And then I
usually have some kind ofinteraction with my recovery
community, you know, whetherthat's being of service
somewhere.
So it's a daily activity thatalways keeps it at the forefront
of my mind.
Even if I'm on a commute goingto work or something, I'm
(27:59):
listening to a meeting or I'mlistening to recovery podcast or
some kind of literature that isassociated with that.
I'm also connected with apodcast called Dopey, which is a
really important podcast that'sjust about the humorous side of
addiction, which is a reallyimportant resource for me.
I consume art and music that isall around addiction, but that's
(28:25):
sort of my favorite thing.
I love a movie like Requiem fora Dream or Trainspotting or
things that I really connectwith.
So most of the media that Iconsume is is around this
disease of addiction.
It's a big part of my identity.
SPEAKER_03 (28:42):
Yeah, that sounds like you're really entrenched in
it, which I think is soimportant because you're
constantly learning and you'reconstantly, you know, getting
more information on what to doand maybe even what not to do.
You wrote a song called FunnyMan, which is about Robin
Williams, who sadly passed awaydue to his mental health and
physical health.
(29:03):
I had read that you said humoris a traumatic response.
Yes.
Can you
SPEAKER_04 (29:09):
explain that?
I think that's interesting.
When you're dealing with trauma,you have to be able to overcome
it.
And sometimes the only way is tobe sarcastic about it, to make
fun of it, to lift yourself upout of it by ridiculing what's
making you feel so bad.
In a way, it is a kind ofsuperpower to take what's
(29:30):
negative and turn it intopositives.
It's a really important thing.
And if somebody has a highlydeveloped sense of humor, it
really comes from that personhaving had to cope with all
sorts of traumatic things.
That's just the way humorpresents itself.
That's the way that we getbetter at it is because we have
to keep on doing it.
So oftentimes funny people arebattling with a lot of things
(29:55):
that you don't see on thesurface.
I feel like
SPEAKER_03 (30:00):
comedy and music, even though we don't talk about
it that much, are like two ofthe greatest healers we have.
Because I know I get a lot ofjoy in both of those things.
Have you ever really thoughtabout yourself as a healer,
being a comedian and a musician?
SPEAKER_04 (30:17):
Yes, absolutely.
It's a big part of it,especially as a comedian,
because when people laugh,they're taking an unexpected
breath that ensures their nextmoment of life.
So you're life-affirming.
With people, you know, you'rearound them, you're making them
breathe when they didn't expectit.
(30:37):
So you're giving them unexpectedlife over and over.
You know, it's almost yoga.
Like it's a very spiritualthing.
And singing, you know, music andsinging and all that is
connected to like breath andlife.
And so for me, yeah, it's a verylife affirming thing to do those
both.
(30:58):
That's great.
Those are my two
SPEAKER_03 (30:59):
favorite things.
And one thing that I think oursociety believes is that drugs
and alcohol equals partying,which equals fun.
But then hopefully as we getolder, we realize that alcohol
and drugs can actually cause alot of drama and a lot of
(31:19):
negativity in relationships andcareer.
I had read that you said thatpartying sober is actually like
the greatest party.
SPEAKER_04 (31:28):
Yeah, I have a better time.
Now, more than ever, justpartying, like having fun with
friends and laughing andenjoying music, you know, just
being present, which is theopposite of drinking and using
drugs where you're just notpresent.
Now you're trying to erase thepresence of yourself and
(31:50):
everyone else.
So I definitely party harder nowthan ever before without any
kind of substance.
It's the best.
SPEAKER_03 (31:59):
What is your description of parting now as a
sober person?
I mean, what do you find thejoys in as far as parting now?
I
SPEAKER_04 (32:08):
like to go to shows.
I like to watch people perform.
I like to perform and do comedy.
I like to go see comedy.
I like to just enjoy the peoplethat I love.
I like to go out to eat.
I love eating.
Eating is a very big part of it,too.
SPEAKER_03 (32:25):
You know, when I was with Campus Circle, I remember I
asked you a question.
This was so many years ago.
And I said, you know, when youwere growing up in a Korean
family, was there anybody thatsupported you with your goals to
be an entertainer?
And you said nobody supportedyou, you know, that you didn't
find a lot of encouragement.
(32:46):
No.
Yeah.
And that's like in an Asianfamily.
I mean, I'm half Japanese andhalf Chinese.
My mother had dreams of mybrother being a lawyer, which
he's very much not one, and, youknow, us being in business or,
you know, something else.
Entertainment was not anacceptable career or a career
that was talked about in theAsian family, not in my family.
(33:10):
But I'm sensing people likeBowen Yang and Awkwafina and
Ronnie Chang and Jimmy Yang andall of these great entertainers
that are Asian are starting tokind of band together and and
create a foundation for eachother and build from there.
I mean, is that what you seehappening or is that just my
perception?
(33:30):
No,
SPEAKER_04 (33:31):
I think that's true.
I mean, and it's so, so, sowelcoming, you know, it's really
powerful.
So yeah, there's so muchcamaraderie and so much
affection that we Asiancomedians have for each other,
you know, because we have tobreak with tradition and break
with these ideas of who weshould be, whether that's
doctors or lawyers or whateverit is.
(33:52):
breaking out of this sort ofmodel minority myth.
So there's a lot of camaraderieand understanding and, you know,
great affection between all ofus.
That's really good to hear.
SPEAKER_03 (34:04):
This is my dog trying to jump up on the bed.
Rock it! You know what's funnyis I am so much calmer when he's
in my lap.
SPEAKER_04 (34:11):
Yeah, like I try to sync our heartbeats.
You know, we just sit alltogether, me and my animals, we
just sync our heartbeats.
It's really nice.
SPEAKER_03 (34:20):
Yeah, I find that just holding my dog immediately
calms me down.
And the great thing about my dogis I feel like he will let me do
whatever I want as far as likeforming his body on my body.
And it's just like the bestfeeling.
And sometimes it just helps meso much to go to sleep because
(34:43):
sleep is so important, you know,to our mental health and
everything else.
I've read articles where youmention your animals, and I was
wondering how your animals, howare they like a positive
foundation for your mentalhealth and sobriety?
Oh, they're
SPEAKER_04 (35:00):
everything.
I mean, they are so healing.
You know, they're just there forme.
And it also takes me out ofmyself to have to care for them.
You know, I have three cats andthis dog, and they're just
always around me, you know, andI...
really love that I get to takecare of them, but also they take
(35:20):
care of me.
You know, it's a constantcommunication.
I mean, Lucia, this dog is likealways somewhere on my body,
like Rocket.
She's like on my hip, you know,and all my cats sleep on me and
we just have a bond.
I really think that's the mosthealing thing in life is to have
(35:42):
this wonderful relationship withanimals i mean i have it also
outside you know there's 27 birdfeeders around a little bit less
bird stuff because i am wary ofbird flu but i for a long time
had fostered a lot of differentrelationships with the migrating
birds so i'm really about caringfor life in all its forms
(36:06):
whatever i can do but i yeah ilove animals
SPEAKER_03 (36:10):
Yeah, I think Rocket is my soulmate puppy because
just the feeling ofunconditional love that I get
from him and the joy that I getfrom giving to him as well as
receiving, it's what a true loverelationship should be.
Yes.
Right?
Yeah.
And sometimes we don't get
SPEAKER_04 (36:31):
that as much from humans.
I get so much more from animalsthan I do from human beings.
I have great human beings in mylife.
I have great friends and I havegreat relationships, but my
animals, I'm always seeking outtheir attention as well as them
seeking out my attention.
Like we're always there toaffirm each other and we're
(36:51):
always there for affection andit's just really magical.
It is.
SPEAKER_03 (36:56):
Is there anything else that you want to say about
mental health or addictionrecovery?
Well,
SPEAKER_04 (37:04):
it's the best thing to do, like to find out what's
making you feel bad and how toget to feeling good, that there
is a way to feel good, thatthere's no reason to spend your
life feeling bad.
If there's something you can doabout it, that's worth finding
what it is, whether that'sgetting sober, which for me is
like the most important thing.
(37:25):
But that might not be the choicefor everyone.
You know, that may be getting onthe right medication.
That might be getting the righttherapist.
Maybe it's getting out of arelationship.
You know, there's lots of thingsthat can be done to feel good
because I think naturally inthis world that you should be
able to feel good.
Despite my history and despitethe way that my brain works, I
(37:50):
actually feel good mostly allthe time.
And I'm like really happy mostlyall the time.
And that's a huge reasonincredible thing to go from not
wanting to live really, or notcaring if I lived or died, to
actually feeling really great.
So it's attainable.
Like mental health and happinessare really attainable things,
(38:11):
but they take some practicalsteps to get to where you're
going.
And the most important thing isto start taking those steps to
wherever that leads you, youknow, whether that's to
sobriety, whether that's totherapy, whatever it is.
SPEAKER_03 (38:26):
Yeah, I do believe it really is a journey because
things change throughout ourlives.
And, you know, sometimes onesolution will work for one
situation and sometimessomething else will work for
another situation.
And, you know, same withmedications or therapists.
So I thank you for being so openand honest.
(38:47):
I thank you for beingpersistent.
And I just thank you for sharingand for still being here and
having a lovely life.
This year, the Check Your Headpodcast is thrilled and honored
to be nominated for a People'sChoice Podcast Award in four
different categories.
But we need your help.
(39:08):
So visit podcastawards.com andplease vote for Check Your Head
Podcast, for the People's ChoiceAward, for Best Asian Hosted
Podcast, Best Health Podcast,and Best Music Podcast by July
31st.
It only takes a minute and wouldmean the world for us to win,
allowing us to continue ourmission to improve and save
(39:31):
lives by providing mental healthand addiction recovery
solutions.
Next, our expert Candice Koharaof Infinite Love Rescue not only
rescues dogs and cats, but isalso an educator for SPCA in Los
Angeles, which is a society forthe prevention of cruelty to
animals, teaching others how tobe responsible, caring pet
(39:53):
owners.
Candice also shares how animalscan support us and why rescue
pets can love the fiercest.
We had Margaret Cho talkingabout her animals always being
there for her, and she calledthem magical.
What made you decide thatrescuing animals would be part
of your life's
SPEAKER_02 (40:14):
work?
So I'm one of those ladies thatstray dogs on the street and
I'll jump out of my car and I'llget my leash and I'll chase
after them until I can rescuethem.
So I thought that, oh, well,maybe that's my life purpose.
So that combined with my soulpup, Boo, who passed away, I
wanted to do something in honorof him, who is also on my logo.
(40:37):
I created Infinite Love AnimalRescue.
SPEAKER_03 (40:42):
Well, you know, one thing that I read on your
website, which I thought wasreally cool, it says dogs know
when they've been rescued.
They're the ones that love thefiercest.
Can you tell me the differencebetween adopting a rescue dog
versus like a regular dog or apuppy?
A
SPEAKER_02 (41:00):
lot of dogs are from the shelter or discarded on the
streets.
They've had to fend forthemselves and they know what
it's like to be dumped.
They know and they have theemotional feelings to understand
what happened to them.
So when we rescue them, I thinkthey are truly grateful and
appreciative of us and thereforeeven more loyal.
(41:22):
Like they've seen the dark sideof being on the streets and in
the shelters, not being lovedlike we could love them.
And I think that you're saving alife.
For example, Harmony, she wasfrom an unwanted litter and she
was going to be surrendered tothe animal shelter.
So I rescued her.
I saved her.
And I feel a lot more rewardedby that.
(41:43):
We just have a deeperconnection.
SPEAKER_03 (41:44):
My first dog, I adopted from a loving family.
And then when I adopted Rocket,there was that difference.
I mean, when I gave Rocket hisfirst meal, he just licked my
face in such appreciation.
He was so thankful.
And he did that for a long time.
(42:07):
I do think that Rocket is somuch more appreciative than my
first dog, who was alsowonderful, but in a different
way.
And at the same time, there'ssomething about taking care of
Rocket as a rescue that makes mefeel so good.
And the fact that he does thesame for me, it's just like this
really wonderful relationshipthat we have.
(42:29):
And I really feel like he's mysoulmate.
I like my little soulmate puppy.
SPEAKER_02 (42:35):
Yeah, I believe in soulmate puppies.
And I just think when weconnect, it's such a wonderful,
meaningful relationship.
SPEAKER_03 (42:41):
What are some challenges that you come across,
you know, hearing from otherparents that adopt rescues?
SPEAKER_02 (42:48):
Some other challenges might be, for
example, we rescued a dog namedFergus, and he was from a
hoarding situation.
So when we rescued him, heactually was very scared.
He didn't know affection.
He didn't know the human touch.
He couldn't handle any kind ofnoise.
Everything just scared him.
Like at my house, he would justgo to the corner and just hide.
(43:10):
So I think that's part of atransitional thing.
And it just takes a lot of timeand patience.
So we did the best we can to gethim into his adopted home.
But we also tell the adoptivefamily that.
So they know his history, whathe's been through, how far he's
come along.
And it's up to them to reallyjust continue that transitional
(43:31):
time until he really understandswhat it is to be loved and in a
wonderful family home.
SPEAKER_03 (43:36):
You know, it did take a while for Rocket because
Rocket was really scared.
I mean, he could not even walkaround the block because every
single sound, he would freeze.
He just wouldn't move.
But I gave him as much time ashe needed and to get used to the
situation.
I give him a lot of love andattention.
(43:58):
And it really does feel good tosee a dog like Rocket sort of
blossom.
He did the same at the dog parkwhere he was hiding behind my
feet before he finally came outand started socializing with the
other dogs and running around.
So that also brought me a lot ofjoy to know that he was feeling
(44:21):
more comfortable and Just thefeeling of trust that he has
with me makes me feel reallygood.
Our
SPEAKER_02 (44:28):
specialty is actually rescuing dogs like
Rocket who are shy and scaredbecause I just really like to
love them up, like just givethem all the love and comfort.
I guess that's my specialty isto just really love.
That's why we're called InfiniteLove and to help dogs blossom
into their full potential.
SPEAKER_03 (44:46):
Well, you mentioned being a licensed spiritual
counselor, and I was reallyinterested in that because I
haven't heard of that before.
What does that mean?
It's
SPEAKER_02 (44:55):
kind of the same as a therapist.
It's akin to a therapist, but weuse spiritual principle to help
heal.
And that includes like prayerand meditation.
We also do contemplation andthose kinds of exercises to help
reveal your inner beauty or yourinner loves.
help you blossom as well.
We like to see all the good inyou and we see that until you
(45:19):
see it for yourself.
I should say the ministry that Isupported when I was at Agape
was the animal kinship ministry.
So basically we would pray withpeople around their dog, like
say Rocket had an illness, thenwe would pray with you and
affirm all the good things thatare happening, affirm peace in
your life and healing and I alsofacilitated the Animal
(45:42):
Bereavement Grief Support Group,which was really fascinating,
amazing.
We would come together, all thepeople who lost their pet.
It could be people who losttheir guinea pigs, rabbits, all
kinds of animals.
And we get together and we sharestories about our animals and we
all take time even showingpictures.
And then we would start with aprayer and end with a prayer.
SPEAKER_03 (46:02):
People don't realize how much grief and how much loss
you feel Because when ouranimals pass away, they are like
our children.
And I do believe that strongemotions like that really need
to be looked at and expressed toreally feel healing.
SPEAKER_02 (46:20):
We like to provide a safe space for people to share
without judgment because a lotof people just want to be heard
and share their stories withoutany unsolicited advice.
Just kind of a nice safe spaceto share our emotions and
feelings without any judgment.
SPEAKER_03 (46:36):
One thing that I read is that you are also a
humane educator, and that's forthe society, for the prevention
of cruelty to animals.
What is it that you're trying toteach people, you know, as an
educator?
SPEAKER_02 (46:50):
One of the programs that we teach are pet
responsibility and how to safelymeet and greet animals.
For example, we go to ArlingtonElementary School every year,
and we do a fifth grade program,and we teach all the tools that
you need to have a dog to be aresponsible pet owner.
At the end of the program, wehave other dogs that are
(47:12):
child-friendly come to the classand the kids line up and they
get to meet the dogs one at atime.
And we teach like ask, and thenyou bend down and then you lift
up your fist and the dog sniffsand then you pet their chin.
So that's how we teach the kidsto do it.
And it's such a greatopportunity because a lot of
these children haven't even peta dog before or are scared of
(47:35):
dogs.
So we teach them how to safelydo that.
And I think it's so rewarding.
SPEAKER_03 (47:40):
You know, you mentioned that a lot of rescued
animals have a lot of fear orthey could be triggered by
things that could cause anxiety.
Do you have any tips on what youcan do for the mental health of
a dog when you first adopt them?
Well, I like to give a
SPEAKER_02 (47:56):
lot of space and I like to take it easy with the
dog.
For example, we always teach tobend down to their level.
So just like humans, I don'tlike to impose on their space.
Everyone has their own timing.
And so with dogs, we give themtheir own space and we slowly
pet them and we give them treatsthat they might love.
And it just takes time andpatience.
SPEAKER_03 (48:19):
Yeah, that's what I found with Rocket.
So what are some of the waysthat dogs and rescue animals can
help with our mental health?
Some
SPEAKER_02 (48:29):
of the ways that dogs can help is they do help
reduce anxiety.
They help reduce stress anddepression.
There's scientific backing tothat.
They also encourage physicalactivity, you know, because you
have to walk the dog and you gooutside, being in nature and the
sun and air.
That also helps with mentalhealth and social interaction.
(48:50):
Dogs help in so many ways.
They're just unconditionallyloving animals.
And they increase oxytocin,which is the cuddle hormone.
You know, we look at our dogsand how often do we just want to
cuddle them, right?
Yeah, you know, when I grab
SPEAKER_03 (49:05):
Rocket, put him on my chest, I feel like the whole
world melts away.
All my stress melts away.
I've never felt so safe andprotected at nighttime.
I know that he is listening24-7.
And he can be so strong andfierce when he feels like I'm in
danger.
I really feel like he would puthis life on the line for me.
(49:27):
And when you're talking aboutunconditional love, their love
is so pure.
There's an innocence to it.
And they're so expressive withhow excited they are to see you.
It's
SPEAKER_02 (49:40):
like coming home to your dog, right?
Whenever I come home, she's justso excited and her eyes light up
and it's just amazing feeling.
SPEAKER_03 (49:47):
Yeah, I feel like a rocket does like a happy dance.
It just feels so good to be thatappreciated, actually.
Yeah, exactly.
We also talk about addiction.
Do you know how animals might beable to benefit somebody that's
in recovery?
SPEAKER_02 (50:04):
I mean, I knew somebody who was recovering and
he had to sleep on my couch fora few months.
And while I helped him cope andfind his way, I was fostering
this dog named Woody.
It was a dog that I rescued froma shelter in Los Angeles.
And he had a broken leg thatnever healed right, so he
(50:25):
limped.
But he was this cute littlefour-pound minpin chihuahua.
And my friend that was sittingon my couch recovering, he never
really thought or cared about adog.
But because I brought in so manyanimals, he just connected with
Woody.
Woody would come home and dogsjust connect with somebody.
They find that person andthey're completely loyal.
(50:45):
So They just connected, andwhenever he was laying in bed,
he would just open up hiscovers, and then Woody would
just slip right in, and theywould cuddle.
And it really helped him.
And at the end, he wanted toadopt the dog, but he just
wasn't ready.
But we did see him light up, andit was just an amazing
connection.
SPEAKER_03 (51:04):
Yeah, I had a roommate, and her dog would go
to the hospitals and meet withthe patients and with children.
And there's such a calmingpresence with animals.
I also hear about when dogs orcats are brought into the
workplace.
That also seems to reduceanxiety and also kind of boost
(51:27):
creativity.
I think whenever we feel lessstressed, we're able to be more
creative.
And I also think that dogs teachus certain things that we could
incorporate into our own lives.
Is there anything that you couldthink of that you've learned
from dogs that you wouldincorporate into your own life?
SPEAKER_02 (51:46):
Yeah, I wrote an article about how Boo, my soul
pup, was my four-legged guru.
And he taught me a lot ofthings.
Like he taught me how to forgivebecause he would forgive
anything.
You know, he was just sounconditionally loving that I
felt like if I did anything,like if I was gone all day or
something happened, that hewould always forgive me.
Also, he taught me living in thepresent moment.
(52:08):
Rocket, do you think he'sthinking about the past or the
future?
No, he's thinking about yourmoment together.
They also teach you playfulnessto embrace your inner child.
That's just such a gift becauseas adults, we lose that inner
child and we lose theplayfulness.
And I think that's something toremember that we need to bring
back into our lives.
(52:29):
Simple pleasures, just thelittle things in life that just
bring them so much joy.
SPEAKER_03 (52:33):
Good point.
One thing that I also noticedwith my dogs is that they're
very intuitive and they trusttheir intuition.
Like for instance, with my firstdog, There was always a time
when we would walk.
She was off the leash for a bit.
And I remember I would look bothways.
(52:53):
And as soon as I knew it wastime to cross the street, she
would run across the street.
She would always know when itwas clear.
And she always got that feelingfrom me.
Though I feel like as humans, wealso have that intuition.
But sometimes our brains get inthe way and we doubt.
(53:14):
our intuitions, but I feel likeanimals trust it and they act
upon it.
And I've learned to really trustmy own intuition because my dog
does that so well.
SPEAKER_02 (53:25):
Yeah, exactly.
I think so too.
I believe definitely animals areintuitive as well as all of us.
And how many times do we hear orsee that red flag and we still
proceed?
It's just sad that we oftendon't listen to those
intuitions, but the more mindfulwe get, I think we're in tune
with that.
and that we could see thingsthat are coming or forthcoming.
SPEAKER_03 (53:46):
You've been doing animal rescue for about 20
years, being involved as avolunteer, fostering dogs.
Is there anything else that youwould like to say about the
benefits of a rescue animal orhow they can help with mental
health?
SPEAKER_02 (54:04):
They are really great to have in the house and
to have in your life.
I for sure could never livewithout a dog or a fur baby.
They just bring so much joy.
They get me out of the house,and when I come home and they
greet me, it's so important.
And rescuing is so rewarding.
As a rescuer, it is verychallenging and difficult.
(54:25):
I mean, there's many times thatI've cried, I've been angry, and
all of these things that happento animals that don't need to
happen.
I just think if we could allrescue, spay and neuter, it's A
lot of animals die in theshelters because there's not
enough room and people keepbreeding when they could rescue.
Adoption is the way to go.
If we keep buying pets, thenwe're encouraging breeders to
(54:50):
breed.
And I think there are just somany loving animals that could
use a home.
And I just encourage everybodyto adopt.
SPEAKER_03 (54:58):
I agree.
And who's not to love pets?
being loved unconditionally.
So I want to thank you, Candice,for everything that you do, for
these beautiful dogs and cats,and also for bringing Rocket
into my life.
I call him my dream dog.
I just love him so much.
I really
SPEAKER_02 (55:16):
do.
They're just such a blessing.
I couldn't imagine a differentpath for my life.
SPEAKER_03 (55:23):
A big thank you to our musical guest, Margaret Cho,
and our expert, Candice Kuohara.
For more information on MargaretCho, visit margaretscho.com,
where you can stream her LuckyGift album, buy tickets to her
stand-up comedy tour,Choligarchy, and stay tuned for
a clip of Margaret's single,Lucky Gift.
(55:43):
For more information on CandiceKuwahara and Infinite Love
Rescue, and the Fur Baby LoveFest free event, visit
infiniteloverescue.org.
Follow at Check Your HeadPodcast on your social media.
watch and subscribe Check YourHead Podcast's YouTube channel,
and visitcheckyourheadpodcast.com for the
largest online list of free andaffordable mental health and
(56:07):
addiction recovery solutions.
So until next time, be brave,ask for help, and be persistent
in finding the mental health andaddiction recovery you need.
SPEAKER_01 (56:27):
But I think that it's okay Entropy's a loaded gun
Shots are fired but you misssomeone You will read your
(56:50):
Russian prose Put it down tocurl my toes
SPEAKER_03 (57:33):
Check Your Head Podcast is kindly supported and
partnered with Sweet ReliefMusicians Fund, DBSA San Gabriel
Valley, Earshot Media, and LemonTree Studios in Los Angeles.
Visit checkyourheadpodcast.comwhere we have over 100 solutions
for mental health.
Be our friends on social media.
at Check Your Head Podcast.
(57:54):
Watch us on YouTube and supportus with a kind donation on
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Thank you for your support andthank you for listening.
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