Mari Fong interviews Matt Brandyberry of From Ashes to New and Eva Marie AKA Amanda Lyberg, psychotherapist and lead singer of Eva Under Fire. Matt Brandyberry shares his story what led to his personal breakdown which triggered panic attacks, anxiety and depression. The pros and cons of competitiveness. From Ashes to New's single and latest album "Panic" is an insight to these moods along with 3 EPs dropped in 2021 entitled "Quarantine Chronicles." Listen to a clip of "Panic" after Matt's interview.
Next, our mental health expert is a psychotherapist, clinical psychologist and lead singer of the band Eva Under Fire, Eva Marie AKA Amanda Lyberg. Eva Marie shares panic attack solutions, how to advocate for your mental health on tour, and why facing our demons is hard, but better than drowning our sorrows. Listen to a clip of Eva Under Fire's single "Unstoppable" off their debut album, Love, Drugs & Misery.
“Be brave, ask for help, and be persistent in finding the mental help that you need.” For free and affordable solutions for mental health and addiction recovery, visit: http://checkyourheadpodcast.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:00):
Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, the podcast
where notable musicians andexperts share their stories and
solutions for mental health andwellness.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist and life coach
for musicians, and we're in themonth of March, which is Women's
History Month.
(00:20):
And in celebration, the TubiChannel is featuring a new music
documentary entitled Gone BeforeHer Time about four iconic
female musicians.
Amy Winehouse, Selena, Aaliyah,and Lisa Left Eye Lopez of TLC.
I was thrilled and honored asboth a mental health advocate
and a music journalist to beinterviewed for this documentary
(00:43):
to comment on these fourincredible artists and play a
part in telling their stories.
So please download the Tubichannel to watch free streaming
movies and TV shows, includingthe new documentary, Gone Before
Her Time.
Thank you.
Thank you.
(01:06):
Thank you.
(01:26):
Skrillex, with the lead singereven naming his beloved dog
Chester after Chester Benningtonof Linkin Park, another admired
band.
Their third and latest album,Panic, dropped alongside the
Pandemic Anxiety in 2020, yetthe song was actually about the
panic attacks experienced bylead singer Matt Brandeberry of
From Ashes to New.
(01:48):
Matt shares his story of panicattacks and alcohol abuse, along
with his solutions for recovery.
From Ashes to New also droppedthree EPs in 2021 called
Quarantine Chronicles, and we'llhear a clip of their single
Panic at the end of Matt'sinterview.
Next, our featured expert is apsychotherapist and clinical
(02:08):
psychologist specializing inanxiety and addiction recovery,
who also happens to be a singerof rock band Eva Under Fire.
Our mental health expert slashmusician today is Amanda Lyberg,
also known as Eva Marie.
lead singer of Eva Under Fire.
Eva Marie will talk about panicattack solutions, advocating for
(02:30):
your own mental health on tour,and facing our demons versus
drowning our sorrows.
We'll also hear a clip of EvaUnder Fire's new single,
Unstoppable, off their upcomingdebut album, Love, Drugs, and
Misery.
But first, let's hear MattBrandeberry of From Ashes to New
share his story.
The last album that she put outcalled Panic, actually started
(02:54):
out as a song dealing withanxiety.
When you look back, when was thefirst time that you noticed
anxiety being a problem or anissue in your life?
SPEAKER_01 (03:04):
So growing up, my grandmother was a very
strong-willed person.
And she used to tell me anytimethat I would get sick with a
stomachache or a headache, shewould say, oh, Matthew, it's all
in your head.
Now that I'm a little older, Ilook back and realize that was
her tradition.
trying to create a positive outof a negative.
(03:24):
And obviously, we're allfamiliar with the placebo
effect.
So she was just trying to takemy mind off things.
But as I grew up, I kind of keptthat mentality that she
instilled in me.
And I applied that to almosteverything that I did in life.
So when I would have an anxiousmoment, or I would have a
scenario where I was feelinganxious, I would just tell
myself, oh, it's just nerves aregoing to be fine, you can move
(03:44):
forward.
So I never really knew exactlywhat anxiety was.
And I was actually guilty earlyon of telling people that were
close to me who had dealt withthese types of things that it
was all in their head becausethat's what I had learned.
I had learned it's all in yourhead.
You can defeat this on your ownand you're making the worst out
of a scenario that you don'thave to.
(04:07):
But then I had a scenarioseveral years ago where I kind
of had a bit of a breakdown.
And from that point forward, Istarted dealing with panic
attacks and That's when Irealized like, wow, this is
really real.
And this is really something I'mtrying my best to control by
telling myself that it's all inmy head and it's not working.
So what is going on?
So that's when I realized around2016 is when I really realized,
(04:31):
okay, this is a real thing.
And now I know exactly what itis.
SPEAKER_03 (04:35):
Well, I'm glad you did the research that the
education needed to kind of findout what was going on because
it's a scary thing.
One thing you said was thatsometimes it comes on Without
any rhyme or reason, without anykind of trigger, it just
happens.
SPEAKER_02 (04:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (04:51):
Can you give me an example of what that's like and
maybe a time where that happenedkind of out of the blue?
SPEAKER_01 (04:57):
Sure.
My anxiety early on stemmed fromsomething that would trigger it.
Yeah.
The biggest trigger that I'mfamiliar with in mind was heart
palpitations.
And that came from underlyingstress or overconsumption of
caffeine while having underlyingstress.
And I would have a heartpalpitation and that would send
my mind into overdrive, fight orflight.
(05:19):
And I would just spiral out ofcontrol.
That would happen.
And then I'd have to lay downand take a nap and try and start
my day all over again because Iwas already at the point where
it just felt like it all camecrashing down.
But I mean, that all stemmedfrom A scenario in my life where
I felt like I put all my eggs inone basket and that basket kind
of tipped over and all thoseeggs broke.
(05:40):
So that was the underlyingproblem that was stressing me
out to the point where I wasdealing with these physical
ailments that were creatingpanic attacks.
SPEAKER_03 (05:51):
We've had quite a few musicians talk about panic
attacks on the podcast.
Now you talked about thatsituation that happened a few
years back.
Was that when the band was goingthrough changes in its members?
Can you tell me about what wasgoing on there?
SPEAKER_01 (06:05):
It's exactly what it was.
You know, I started the Americandream backwards.
So like most people, they'll getthe job and they'll have the
family and they'll get the housewith the fence and the yard and
the dogs.
And that's what I did.
And then I had the opportunitywith music to risk it all,
really.
It was putting all of your moneyon red and let the wheel spin
and hoping that it hit.
(06:26):
And that's what I did with mymusic career.
I traded in the security for myfamily, the house, and I traded
all that in for a shot atsomething greater.
And the band was given a rareopportunity out of nowhere.
It kind of just happened for us.
It was one of those luck storiesthat people talk about, and we
(06:47):
were off and running.
Everything wasn't so smooth.
We weren't making a lot ofmoney, but the goal was to
continue working as hard as wecould to get to the point where
money didn't become an issueanymore.
I'd gone from having a prettycushy career to going to a place
where it wasn't as secure andknowing that I had to work
through it because I didn't haveany other options.
(07:08):
I believe in if you want to dosomething in life, you can't
have a plan B.
If you have a plan B, you'llnever focus hard on your plan A.
I left all my plan Bs behind andI focused all on the band.
When we went through memberchanges in 2016 and That was a
wake-up call for me.
This could all end in the blinkof an eye.
(07:28):
If it all ends, what's my nextstep?
Because everything else isbehind me.
I don't have anything else aheadof me except for this.
There was one very specificnight that I realized that.
And that very specific night, Idon't know what a nervous
breakdown is.
I can assume that what happenedto me is a nervous breakdown.
But that was the night that Ikind of realized that it really
(07:51):
didn't matter.
If I die here tonight, What doesit really matter?
That was an eye-opener to me.
I'm at a point in life where Idon't care.
What just happened?
I cared about everything, andnow I'm at a point in life where
it feels like it's over anyway,so whatever.
I
SPEAKER_03 (08:08):
think I also read that there was a time where you
signed with Better Noise, and acouple of the members decided to
drop out for whatever reasons.
Was that the incident that madeyou feel that way, or what was
it exactly that you feel better?
triggered this nervousbreakdown?
SPEAKER_01 (08:26):
We had spent a lot of time on tour in 2015 and
2016.
We had just dropped day one andwe were out a lot.
So we didn't spend a lot of timeat home and we were touring in
an RV.
We weren't making a lot ofmoney.
Temperaments were running onhigh and we had gotten at each
other a lot.
Some people were partying harderthan others.
(08:47):
I was that person.
There was a lot of differentthings that played into the band
splitting ways.
And I am not exempt of fault byany means.
I think that we all played anequal part in what happened.
But we had a lot of importantthings lined up.
And our singer was quitting.
(09:07):
We're a two vocalist band.
I'm one of them.
And then we have another singer.
So our singer was quitting.
We had a lot of things lined up.
Expectations were really highfor the band.
And I couldn't get him to stay.
I'm like, hey, can I Just getyou to stay for this show and
this tour that we have lined up.
And then after that, we'llfigure it out.
And I couldn't find areplacement.
(09:29):
I had a lot of people that wererelying on me.
They were relying on the band.
And I just felt like I failedeverything.
As a leader, I felt like I wasjust a failure.
And failure is not somethingthat I take kindly.
I've grown up through sports.
And I've grown up competitive.
And my competitive nature isthat you can't fail.
(09:51):
That was a big failure to me.
So having that big failure was alot of stress.
That was that moment when Irealized that I was hopeless.
I realized I wasn't going to beable to do anything.
And I'm always the guy, I waslike, you can find a solution to
every problem.
And I had run into a problemthat I couldn't find a solution
for.
SPEAKER_03 (10:08):
Would you consider that nervous breakdown like a
depression?
Because it sounded like you felthopeless and you felt, oh gosh,
this is the end of the road forme.
What's left?
Nothing.
Would you describe it as that?
Or did you...
Would you describe it assomething else?
SPEAKER_01 (10:23):
I mean, I guess it could be described that way.
Honestly, I just know that I wasa mess.
And I had seen doctors and theydiagnosed me with certain things
and prescribed me certainmedications to overcome those
things.
I'm not really sure exactly whatI was dealing with.
I just know that it was a reallydark place.
So if depression is a reallydark place, that's where I was.
And I know that anxiety was abig part of it because I
(10:45):
couldn't get full sentences out.
I couldn't get full thoughtsout.
I thought I was dying everyhour.
life was miserable.
And there was so much behind thescenes that people didn't see
that I was dealing with.
And I felt like I couldn't openmyself up to certain people
because they would, you know,I'd be opening myself up for
judgment in a very vulnerableplace in my life that I didn't
(11:06):
think that I was going to beable to tolerate that judgment.
SPEAKER_03 (11:10):
You know, you're talking about what a lot of
people feel when they're in themidst of depression and anxiety
often comes with depression.
But you said that you talked tosome doctors to find out what
you can do about the situation.
What were some of the thingsthat you came across that
actually helped?
SPEAKER_01 (11:30):
Everything that I had was a band-aid.
It was a short-term solution toa long-term problem.
They gave me Xanadix.
They gave me Zoloft.
They gave me Welbutrin.
They gave me...
You name it, I had it.
And it was all...
a short-term solution to along-term problem.
I mean, could I have used itlong-term?
(11:51):
Absolutely.
And I'm not faulting anybodythat does because some people's
scenarios are worse than othersand different than others.
You know, everyone's wireddifferently.
But for me, it was a short-termsolution to a long-term problem.
And that seemed to be the onlyfix that I could get from
anybody was, here, take thismedicine.
So I began taking Zoloft, whichI hated.
(12:12):
So I gave that up for justtaking Xanax as needed.
And then I started taking Xanaxalmost daily, not as needed,
just because it made me feellike there wasn't a care in the
world.
I'm like, oh, okay.
I don't care about anything.
This is great.
But then I realized as I wastrying to put my life back
together, that that wasinhibiting me from doing that.
That was keeping me from caringenough to voyage forward.
(12:34):
It was just keeping me kind ofcomplacent and saying, hey, you
feel good right now.
Why do you need to do anythingelse?
So then I started looking forholistic alternatives to better
my well-being and my state ofmind and move myself forward on
my own behalf and at my own pacewith what felt comfortable to
me.
And that's when I found yoga.
I found meditation.
I found healthy lifestyles andeating and stopping with
(12:57):
substances and different thingsthat I had been using.
I had to get past that.
Toxic relationships.
Basically starting all over, butfrom a very clean place and just
trying to clean up my lifestyleand clean up my mind at the same
time.
And those are the things that Ifound that worked best for me.
SPEAKER_03 (13:16):
Well, that's a long journey.
Just what you've said rightthere.
I can only imagine some of thethings that you went through and
experienced during that time.
I know that sometimes Xanax isused for panic attacks as
needed, but it can also have anaddictive quality.
But then you said you also triedZoloft and you hated it.
What is it about that experiencethat didn't work for you?
SPEAKER_01 (13:40):
It was more or less the same as Xanax for me.
Those types of drugs just mademe feel like, they made me feel
better per se.
They made me feel like, oh,okay, the world is not crashing
down around you.
But they also made me not reallycare if the world came crashing
down around me.
And I didn't like that becauseI'm tenacious about it.
(14:01):
I'm a go-getter.
I'm a person who wakes up everymorning with a plan to go in and
carpe diem.
You know what I mean?
I need to go and I need to seizethe day.
And that's been my mentality foralmost all my life.
So something that takes thataway from me, sure, is masking
one problem that I'm currentlyhaving, but it's taking away
everything that I love about mylife.
(14:23):
And that was just horrible tome.
SPEAKER_03 (14:26):
Going back to that time, you mentioned about
partying too much.
doing different substances.
How did that play a factor inthe turbulence during that time?
I
SPEAKER_01 (14:38):
used to party pretty hard when I was younger, in my
teens.
I actually started smokingcigarettes when I was 13.
I grew up in the era of smokingcigarettes was cool, and I had
an older sister and olderfriends.
I guess I never really thoughtabout addiction.
I just did it.
Then as I got into my 20s, Istarted drinking a lot.
I drank really heavy for thebetter part of a decade.
(15:01):
Some nights, lucky to be alive.
And some of the decisions that Ihad made, lucky to be alive the
next day.
Those types of scenarios.
And my personality is already atype A personality.
So I'm already pretty confidentin myself to the point where I
feel like I can take the worldon.
And when I mixed that withalcohol, I was like Thanos.
(15:23):
I could take on the universe.
It didn't matter.
That doesn't blend well withevery personality.
You know, it already doesn'tblend well with every
personality when it comes downto sober.
But when you mix it withalcohol, it just becomes a whole
different animal.
And I think that's the best wayto describe it is I was an
animal.
And I didn't take intoconsideration everybody around
(15:44):
me.
I only took myself intoconsideration.
And it became pretty selfish ofme.
And I guess I didn't really seeit because I feel like I'm an
unselfish person sober.
But when I'm drunk, I'm selfishas can be.
It's kind of like Dr.
Jekyll and Hyde.
It was just a scenario where Iguess I didn't really see it,
but I would also drink to thepoint of blacking out all the
time, so I didn't really knowexactly what I was doing.
(16:06):
I would only go on people'sstories that they would tell me
afterwards.
It was when that regret reallyfinally started to pile up of
all the decisions that I madethat I looked back and went,
wow, I need to do somethingdifferently.
The problem is that I did thattwice in my life.
It wasn't like I did it Once andthen quit and I was done.
(16:27):
I did that before I started theband.
I had problems with alcohol.
I had problems with personalrelationships because of
alcohol.
From ashes to new, burning mylife down and going to something
new.
That was where the band namecame from.
So I had started a healthylifestyle and the band was the
forefront of that.
I had gone through havingdrinking problems and problems
(16:47):
with friends and things becauseof my drinking problems.
Being overweight because of mydrinking problems.
To quitting that, stopping that,going to the gym, getting into
better shape and keeping my headclean and writing songs about my
struggles.
So that's how this all started.
And then I fell down that holeagain.
And when I fell down that holeagain, it kind of put me back in
(17:10):
that same place, just withdifferent relationships.
SPEAKER_03 (17:14):
We have a lot of musicians that kind of fall into
drugs, alcohol, self-medicating,different scenarios like that.
Why do you think you took thedrinking to that extent?
I'm just wondering if there'sany mental health issues
underlying that or if it wasjust, you know, partying like a
rock star.
SPEAKER_01 (17:33):
Maybe a little bit of both.
So, like I said earlier, I'm anall-in person.
My mentality is to go out andget it, right?
And that's what I write about.
That's how I live my life.
My lyrics aren't fiction.
And when you would mix that withanything, I'm all in.
I just go.
(17:53):
The only thing that usuallystops me is physically being
stopped.
That's the way that I've alwaysbeen in my life.
I just have a switch.
Once I turn that switch on, theonly thing that turns that
switch off is the physicalmotion of turning that switch
off.
I know that sometimes drinkingcan mask personality problems.
(18:14):
not being able to come out ofyour shell.
And I know that drinking is asocial activity because some
people have a hard timesocializing.
For me, I didn't have thatproblem.
I didn't have a problemsocializing.
I just know that when I drank,that just went tenfold.
Like I socialized with literallyeverybody.
It didn't matter.
Sometimes that was a good thingand brought a good story out
(18:37):
that you can tell people foryears to come.
And sometimes it was a badthing.
I just think that my personalitychanged.
My personality is all in.
SPEAKER_03 (18:45):
Taking things to the extreme, it sounds like.
SPEAKER_01 (18:48):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (18:49):
Okay, so when things crashed and burned with the
band, how did you pick yourselfup and put things back together?
To
SPEAKER_01 (18:59):
be honest, I still struggle with it to this day.
And that was six years ago.
Wow, that's a long time.
But I still have those lingeringeffects from everything that
happened to this day.
So it's not like it's not adaily grind.
It's definitely changed who Iam.
And I struggled daily to try andfind that person again, or at
least the better part of thatperson, because there was a bad
(19:19):
part of that person.
So I struggled daily to try tofind that.
But I just had to get back todoing what I do.
I just had to get back to doingwhat I know best, competing.
That's what I've done my entirelife.
I've played sports my entirelife.
So I had to get back tocompeting.
I had to get back to looking forthe truth in the world and the
truth in myself.
And I had to get back to writingmusic, creating songs.
(19:44):
channeling that energy into anoutlet that's better than any
other outlet that I've ever had.
That's what music really is tome.
I say it on stage and I say iteverywhere I go.
It's therapy.
It's the best therapy.
It's cool because it's therapyfor the listener and the
creator.
It's therapeutic.
That's how I started the ballrolling forward was to just get
(20:05):
back to doing what I know how todo best.
SPEAKER_03 (20:08):
You're absolutely right.
I do think musicians arehealers.
There was a social media postthat I read of yours, and it
read, after having my anxietyscream at me all day, this is
exactly what I need, which wasthe panic music video.
When your anxiety screams atyou, what does it say?
SPEAKER_01 (20:25):
That's hard.
Stop.
Give up.
Quit.
You're not good enough.
Sucks.
But that's what it is.
That's an emotional question.
Sorry, go ahead.
No, it's
SPEAKER_03 (20:42):
okay.
Sometimes when we have to reallystop and think, it maybe gives
us some more insight onourselves.
But you talked about some of theways that you've learned how to
deal with these thoughts in yourmind.
Can you talk about how you putthat at bay and some of the
healthy things that you're doingnow?
(21:03):
Can
SPEAKER_01 (21:04):
you just give me one second?
Sorry.
I'm going to choke up oneverything I say now.
Just give me one second tocompose myself here.
Wow.
I don't think I've ever reallytalked about these things so
much.
SPEAKER_03 (21:16):
Tell me about how you're feeling.
Why did that choke you up somuch?
SPEAKER_01 (21:20):
Like I said, I come from a competitive background,
so everything for me is justwin, win, win, win, win.
When you feel like you'relosing, it's like, how do you
win?
I'm just looking for ways towin.
I think that's what my anxietystems from is competitiveness.
How do you win?
How do you win when you don'treally have the ability to do
anything other than what you'recapable of doing?
(21:42):
That's what makes it difficultis that you can only do what you
can do.
And you can only get so good atwhat you can do.
And you can become the best,really.
I really feel like everybody hasthe opportunity to be able to
become the best.
But it's a grind getting there.
And how long does it take,really?
And I think that's what isscreaming at you all the time is
like, be better, do better, getbetter.
(22:05):
When I was a kid, everyone justnaysayed me, really.
I had a hard time believing inmyself because I couldn't find
people that believed in me.
I think that's why that questionhit me so hard is it kind of
just took me back to when I wasa kid.
It was like, you know, what doesthat anxiety scream at you?
And it's do better, be better.
To answer that question is like,how do you do that?
Besides working your ass off allday, every day, how do you do
(22:26):
that?
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_03 (22:28):
And also, what is the win?
What is it that represents awinner?
There's so many different waysto describe what that means to
you.
And I guess it's personal forevery person.
But also being brought up inwhether it's a society or
whether it's a household thatreally encourages winning versus
(22:49):
losing, that's very black andwhite.
We all know that as we try towin, we can lose.
There's a lot of mistakes thatare made that teach us how to
get better.
How do you deal with that?
Because there are losses andsometimes you have to step back.
What is it?
You fall back two steps.
(23:09):
To go forward three steps.
SPEAKER_01 (23:12):
So I'm like, yeah, I don't really know.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (23:15):
I guess the thing is, we all mess up.
We all mess up.
SPEAKER_01 (23:20):
Yeah.
I have a lyric in a song of ourscalled My Name.
It's, you're only going to loseif you don't learn from your
defeats.
And that comes from a place ofwisdom.
That's not something that Ialways knew.
I didn't know that our defeatswere going to be the best
learning tool for me to be ableto move forward.
But I guess it's like an NFLteam watching tape at the end of
(23:40):
the game that they just lost.
Just trying to figure out, okay,how did we lose this game and
how can we correct thosemistakes?
And that's just been a big partof my life since then is just
trying to correct the errors andnot make the same mistakes and
not fall down.
Like I said, I had a scenariowhere I had fallen down a hole
and then I got back out and Ifell down again.
(24:01):
I'm trying not to do that.
But my mentality, it's awinner's mentality.
You have to win.
Probably why I like Cobra Kai somuch.
It's kind of like with drinking,I guess.
Maybe I'm just realizing thisright now, but I don't know how
to turn that off.
So when I win something, okay, Igot that.
Now what?
I'm the type of personalitythat's never really satisfied
(24:24):
with each victory that I have.
I see that as a victory, but Ineed another one.
That's where my happiness stemsfrom.
It really is victory.
SPEAKER_03 (24:34):
So that's almost like an obsession.
okay, where's my next one?
Just this feeling of, okay, I'ma winner, I'm a winner.
But then there's the flip sidewhen things don't work out that
could also be like thedouble-edged sword.
But it also sounds maybe likeyour self-esteem is wrapped up
in the ability to win versusmaybe other things about your
(24:55):
personality.
SPEAKER_01 (24:56):
Yeah, I think so.
I think that just comes fromyears of being competitive.
And that's just how it waswired.
When you're young and you're, Asponge.
You absorb everything.
Young people are veryimpressionable.
And I guess the impression thatwas left on me being competitive
in sports was I have to win.
You have to be the best.
(25:17):
You know, I wasn't like the coolkid in school.
I didn't have the circle of coolfriends.
So I wasn't winning there.
At that point in time, it playsa big part on your psyche.
So I looked for other outlets tojust be a winner in everything
else that I could do.
Now I've found what I do is mycomfort zone.
being a musician.
(25:38):
So I've been able to take thosetwo things and put them
together.
And stemming back to the bandand the onset of some of these
issues, that's why the wholeworld came crashing down around
me is because I found those twothings that I really love and
they both seem to be ripped frommy grasp at one moment.
SPEAKER_03 (25:56):
It sounds like the love and acceptance made you
feel like you didn't have toprove yourself with winning.
But there's also situations, I'msure you can look back, where it
seems like a door closes andslams in your face really hard.
But then another opportunitycomes up that's unexpected that
might even be better and takeyou down a different road that
(26:20):
might even be better in the longrun.
SPEAKER_01 (26:23):
Yeah, we're definitely in that scenario now
from that door that closed.
I know that now.
But it also brought some thingsout that I didn't realize were
there.
That made it hard, but it stillmakes it hard.
But I know that the overarchingproblem that we had at that
point in time is now fixed andbetter.
So I'm obviously good there.
(26:44):
This industry in particular,it's actually really difficult
to be yourself, believe it ornot.
That's one of the things that Istruggle with every day is that
I really just want to be myself.
But then when I do that, I openmyself to judgment.
And I'm not necessarilyconcerned about the judgment,
but the people that I work withor work for are...
(27:04):
scared of the judgment that icould potentially have to endure
and that makes them think adifferent way which then could
shape my career in a differentway because they pull strings on
my career so it's just a bigspider web and trying to
navigate through a spider web isnot easy
SPEAKER_03 (27:23):
i mean especially being on tour that's a whole
other thing how do you keep yourmental health in check while
you're on tour i
SPEAKER_01 (27:33):
think i do all right on tour The longing for home, I
think, helps you get through it.
At the same time, it drives youmad.
So when you're at home, you'rejust like, oh, man, I want to
get back out.
I can't wait to get back out.
And then when you get back out,you're like, oh, man, I can't
wait to get back home.
I can't wait to get back home.
So I think that it always kindof kept me on my toes.
And it was just like, all right,this is a cool balance in life.
(27:54):
There's no better therapy thanbeing on stage in front of
thousands of people anddelivering your message or
rocking out to your own music.
I mean, it's killing.
Of course, you butt heads withyour bandmates and your crew and
stuff like that, but that's tobe expected.
You're living with a group ofpeople in a small room for an
extended period of time.
You're going to have that.
I mean, that can get stressful,but knowing that I'm going to
(28:17):
get back home to my family andto my comfort zone, that just
makes it a little bit easier.
SPEAKER_03 (28:23):
You mentioned things like meditation, exercise, diet,
positive thinking.
Can you touch on some of thoseas far as maintenance things you
do for your mental health?
SPEAKER_01 (28:33):
Positive thinking is the biggest thing because every
thought compounds.
It doesn't matter if it's apositive thought or a negative
thought.
Every thought that you havecompounds and it escalates.
Mentally, it's a scale.
Any scale that's at 51% getstipped that way.
The more you think that way, themore that continues to happen.
(28:55):
I was fortunate enough to gointo the place that I was and
get out of it.
Still there, you know what Imean?
Not as bad as it was, but stillthere.
But I was fortunate enough tolearn these things because, like
you said, one door closes,another one opens.
I was able to learn positiveaffirmation and manifestation.
And if I didn't go through that,I may not have realized what it
(29:19):
was.
Now, looking back in hindsight,I think that my competitive
nature and my always wanting towin, I think I was already
manifesting without knowing.
But now I know exactly whycertain things worked and
certain things didn't work.
And it stems to positivethinking.
The more negative you think, themore negative things are going
(29:42):
to happen.
The more positive you think, themore positive things are going
to happen.
And that doesn't mean thatyou're continuing to think
positively something negativewon't happen.
That just means that it'llhappen less frequently.
That's where I try to stay.
And it's, oh, it's not easy.
It sucks.
It sucks, especially when you'relike, no, everything sucks.
Everything's broken andeverything sucks.
(30:04):
It's hard to get out of that.
We're creatures of habit.
I try to look at that too andunderstand that I can continue
to tell myself, no, it doesn'twork that way.
This is how it works.
The more that I tell myselfthat, the deeper of a hole I
dig.
I just try to tell myself whenI'm spiraling out of control,
(30:25):
okay, Matt, you can continuespiraling out of control by
Telling yourself that bad thingskeep happening, bad things keep
happening.
Or you can say, all right, thisis enough of this bad stuff.
I need to get out of this holeand I need to move forward.
And this might come with me, butI need to defeat it.
SPEAKER_03 (30:44):
Yeah, because it's like a battle in your mind where
the tide is going down.
I'm losing here.
What's wrong with me?
Why isn't this working?
And then you've got to goagainst the tide by saying these
positive things and puttingyourself on a different track.
SPEAKER_01 (31:00):
Our song, Forgotten, if you read the lyrics to
Forgotten, using the tidereference,
SPEAKER_02 (31:06):
it
SPEAKER_01 (31:06):
says to feel like you're drowning.
I wrote an ocean of its own froma perspective of having a cinder
block tied around my ankle andat the bottom of a big body of
water.
I visualized what it would looklike at the bottom of that body
of water, peaceful, with the skybright above me and me looking
(31:31):
up from the bottom, knowing thatmaybe I'm 30 feet from the
surface, and looking up andgoing, how do I get out of this?
This is a situation where I feellike I'm way in over my head.
I'm cinderblocked to the bottomof a lake, and how do I get out?
SPEAKER_03 (31:47):
That's really poetic.
And it actually is a greatdescription of how we can feel
at times when we feel like we'resinking.
and having to find ways to comeup for air or find ways to stay
above the tide so that we don'tsink.
One thing that interests me isyou mentioned meditation as
something that you do.
Tell me how you got into thatand what it does for you.
SPEAKER_01 (32:10):
So I used frequencies to start.
So like binary sounds anddifferent waveform frequencies.
I was turned on to that becauseI actually had two different
reasons.
I had panic attacks that werewaking me up at night.
while I was sleeping, my brainwas just waking me up out of a
dead sleep.
(32:30):
And then I also had tinnitus inmy ear really bad.
So my ear would ring reallyloudly and it would make it
difficult to sleep because itwas so loud.
So I decided that I would startusing frequencies that kind of
mimicked the sound that was inmy ear to try and sleep at night
so that I would use that todrown out the sound that was in
(32:53):
my ears.
And then I realized the morethat I researched, I realized
that those frequencies actuallywere positively affecting my
life.
I didn't realize that I was justusing it to try and stay asleep.
And then I realized thatparticular frequencies work with
different chakras.
And I decided one day I waslike, you know what?
(33:13):
I'm going to try this frequencyand I'm going to try and relax
my mind because that's a reallyhard thing for me to do.
I'm going to try and relax mymind and see where I go.
I ended up venturing back to atime earlier on in life when I
was really, really happy.
I was like, wow, breakthrough.
It wasn't like I thought aboutit.
I was actually there.
(33:34):
It was almost like I was asleep,but I wasn't asleep.
I actually ventured back there.
I felt like I was there inphysical form.
That was when I realized, wow,this actually works.
That made me really happy.
I'm really happy right now.
How do I continue that?
How do I continue this trend ofhappiness?
Through those different types ofexercises, I've been able to.
(33:55):
And again, I steer up that path.
I know that it works.
And then for some reason, Idecide to just not do it for a
while.
And then I get into a badheadspace.
I'm like, I need to go back andI need to do that again.
SPEAKER_03 (34:06):
You've obviously done some research and reading
or maybe it's therapy that youfound these different
techniques.
Where do you normally find thesekind of techniques that help
you?
I
SPEAKER_01 (34:19):
know that some people think it's foo-foo, but
Danny, when he came in, Hesolved how bad of a headspace I
was in.
He didn't know anything that wasgoing on.
He was singing and we selectedhim to be in this band.
So as we were working on therecord and he got to know me
personally, he realized how muchI had been struggling and he
recommended The Secret.
(34:40):
And he was like, hey, I don'tknow what your thoughts are on
something like this.
But I know that this has workedfor some people that I know.
They've read this book andthey've been able to pull
themselves out of pretty darkplaces by what this book has to
tell.
Oddly enough, my wife, prior tothat, told me that I should read
that book because Jim Carrey hadrecommended it.
(35:01):
She's like, you should read thisbook.
I have a friend that's readingit.
I think you would really likeit.
And I brushed it off.
I'm like, nah.
So finally, I listened and Idecided to read it.
And it was just the things inthe book were just so specific.
to the things that I was goingthrough.
But I was like, oh man, likemaybe I'm creating this.
I'm creating this for myself.
(35:22):
And maybe if I change the waythat I'm approaching, you know,
trying to get out of this mess,maybe if I change my approach, I
can actually get through this.
That book was the forefront ofme.
And then there were just someother ones that were just about
positive manifestation andaffirmation that I read to try
and stay in the headspace.
SPEAKER_03 (35:42):
Thank you for that.
One thing you talk about ispanic attacks.
What is one really goodsuggestion or a way that you
deal with those panic attackswhen they come on?
What do you do to help quellthose?
SPEAKER_01 (36:00):
One of the things that I have learned over the
course of the last couple yearsthat have really helped me, and
this might sound morbid, butit's to not care so much about
dying, which Sounds terrible.
But at the same sense, I'verealized that my panic has
always come from, oh man, thisscenario is going to lead to
(36:22):
this scenario, which is going tolead to ultimately death.
So I had the doom, is what somepeople call it.
I had the doom.
And I realized to not care somuch, because as long as I'm not
inflicting that on myself, Ihave no control over it.
I've been in a position myentire life, competitively, I
(36:42):
have to control everything.
That's not a good place to be inwhen it comes to things that you
can't control at all.
So one of the things that hasmade it easy for me is to let go
of control of it and just go,you know what?
I can't control this.
And if this is going to happen,it's going to happen.
But me thinking about it overand over and over again is just
(37:02):
going to make it worse.
And while I'm here and I'm aliveand I'm doing the things that I
love doing, I should enjoy themand not let these negative
things come in and affect that.
That's been the best therapy forme is to realize that I'm not in
control of everything and I canonly control the things that I
can control and that we are allquite alike when it comes down
(37:24):
to the actual fiber of ourbeing.
And that makes you feel not soalone.
SPEAKER_03 (37:31):
Right.
And one thing that you did withPanic is that you donated the
proceeds to Crew Nation, theindustry crews that are
struggling during this pandemic.
which I really praise you for.
Do you have any other plans tospread this mental health
message through actions in 2022?
(37:51):
I
SPEAKER_01 (37:54):
think a big thing for me is that helping people
realize that it's okay to reachtheir hand out and go, hey, I'm
struggling here.
So that's what I try and dothrough music.
That's the way that it comesout.
And I've been told that that'sthe way that it is.
Hey, do you realize that youopened my mind to this?
Maybe that was me opening mymind and then you went, oh, aha.
(38:15):
I'm just going to continue thatreally and just reach my hand
out and say, hey, we're notalone.
And I'm going to be a little bitmore angsty too, to be honest, a
little bit more to the edgy sideof my personality and hope that
helps everyone else realize thatsometimes a good scream really,
really, really helps.
UNKNOWN (38:35):
Make it go away.
SPEAKER_00 (38:36):
I'll see you next time.
SPEAKER_03 (39:03):
Next up, our expert is a clinical psychologist,
psychotherapist, and lead singerof rock band Eva Under Fire.
Eva Marie, also known as AmandaLyberg, has the clinical
experience as a psychotherapistspecializing in anxiety and
substance abuse recovery withthe added experience of being a
touring musician.
Eva Marie will share herprofessional insight on panic
(39:27):
attacks, alcohol abuse recovery,and more.
Now let's hear expert Eva Marie,a.k.a.
Amanda Lyberg, share herknowledge and advice.
I just love your uniqueperspective on being a musician
and a psychotherapist.
I feel like you have this reallycalming presence about you,
(39:48):
which is so important as apsychotherapist to feel like
this care and trust at the sametime.
I love that, and I appreciateyou.
Going back to MattBrandenberry's interview
earlier, What is it that kind ofstuck out to you as he was
talking?
SPEAKER_04 (40:06):
What I really like about From Ashes to New is that
they've always been authentic.
Their story is what they'vewritten about, and they're very
honest in their lyricism, andthey're very honest in the
emotions that they portray intheir music.
And it was very interesting tome to read that panic was not
built around the pandemic, thatit was a real story, an honest
story about a personal journeythrough anxiety.
(40:29):
And then it just so happened tobe that the world went through
this terrible time and now it'sso applicable on such a giant,
massive scale.
So I thought that was reallyinteresting that I really hadn't
realized that it was more soabout a personal coming through
anxiety type of moment than itwas about the pandemic.
SPEAKER_03 (40:49):
When I was doing my research, I read that he had a
breakdown and during that time,panic attacks were triggered for
him.
With your experience, What aresome ways that musicians can
deal with panic attacks?
SPEAKER_04 (41:03):
One of the things that you alluded to is really
important about reframing wherethis comes from.
That it's not because youyourself are making this up,
right?
That it is something in yourbody.
We like patterns.
Our human body, our human brainlikes patterns.
So when there's fear that'sintroduced, you immediately
(41:26):
avoid what you are fearful of.
And so that avoidance becomeshabitual.
So your brain is misfiring ateverything that it perceives as
a threat.
And it could be that somethingis completely miswired, that
this is not threatening.
The food is not threatening.
The performance is notthreatening.
Leaving home is not threatening.
(41:47):
But your body responds to it asthough it is.
So I guess the three things thatI would say would be to reframe
your ideas about where thiscomes from.
and to get some knowledge abouthow it may have occurred for
you.
But also, getting support inthat is important.
Talk about it.
Find someone that you trust.
(42:08):
Find someone that you can reachout to that's reliable and that
you count as trustworthy andreasonable, that you can be
honest with them about this.
Be honest with self is great.
Be honest with other people isalso a challenge, but it's so
beneficial to have support.
And then the third thing that Iwould consider obviously is
(42:29):
clinical treatment.
So a lot of things for peoplenow are all accessible with
telehealth.
You can talk to a therapist andyou can keep in touch just as
easily as we do on Zoommeetings.
I know our particular practiceuses basically FaceTime for
physicians.
It's doxy.me, just a website,but it's HIPAA compliant.
(42:50):
And the other part of clinicaltreatment might be medication.
I don't usually recommend justmedication.
Pills are kind of likemisinterpreted as the magic wand
that they're going to fixeverything.
That's not how it goes.
But medication with therapy canbe very effective.
The reason is because medicationcan bring you down to a baseline
(43:12):
that is more tolerable andallows you to think through it.
Because if you can imagine, forexample, some people who have
health anxiety, may be triggeredby whatever food exists.
Dinner could be a trigger.
And if that person perceivesthat food as life-threatening
(43:33):
right there in the moment, yourtrigger is a reaction.
It's not something that youthink about.
Your body responds, which is whyit's very difficult to control
and very difficult to thinkthrough.
What medication can do is makethat reaction lesser.
and bring you closer to abaseline so that you can access
(43:53):
your reasoning ability toremember what you went through
in therapy.
Okay, this is an opportunity forme to reframe.
Let's challenge what's happeningin my body.
Let me talk to my body and tellit that it's okay to calm down.
I'm going to focus on mybreathing, my mindfulness,
right?
All of a sudden, you have accessto all these things, these tools
(44:14):
that you know about.
If you're afraid to immediatelyand you're on 10, all that
reasoning goes out the windowbecause you're scared.
SPEAKER_03 (44:23):
I know there are breathing techniques or
different things you can learnthrough therapy, like being more
aware of what's triggering you.
I think Matt even mentionedusing Xanax, which can sometimes
act quickly to calm you down.
But the flip side is that itdoes have an addictive property.
And if you start to rely on thattoo often, then it could be a
(44:48):
problem.
But Matt also alluded to thisbreakdown triggered by being on
tour and having one of hissingers suddenly quit the band.
And there was no backup.
He didn't know what to do.
And I think back on somemusicians that I've worked with,
and oftentimes when thingschange like that suddenly,
(45:09):
members leave for whateverreasons, it's a huge letdown.
It's an upheaval.
What are your thoughts on how todeal with these changes that can
happen within bands?
SPEAKER_04 (45:21):
Sure.
Just situational things, right?
If they're not really tied tosomething that is uniquely you,
maybe then it would be lessthreatening.
But if whatever is changed andit's changed drastically and you
identify that as being part ofwho you are, then it shakes you
(45:42):
to your core.
And when I look at And I look atMatt's lyricism and I look at
what his music means to him andthe things that I've heard in
interviews.
It's not just that it changeddrastically.
It's that it changed drasticallyand it meant so much to him that
it was a part of who he was andhis identity.
(46:02):
So I feel like when stuff likethat changes, first of all,
maybe just expect that it'sgoing to be hard and that it
should be.
When anything shakes you to thecore, it's not going to be easy
like that.
So you can't just expectyourself to shut it off and move
on.
You might need some time toprocess this.
(46:22):
You might need to find aphysical outlet.
If you've got a punching bag,that might be the time, right?
And then try and give yourselfspace to simply be blindly
confident in who you are and whyyou got there in the first
place.
I will figure this out.
It will get taken care ofbecause I trust in my own work
(46:46):
ethic.
I trust in my own values and Itrust in my ability to ask
questions of myself, askquestions of others.
So to sort of fortify yourselfand be ready for potentially
life-changing moments, dointernal work.
Take self-inventory.
Make sure that you can stand onyour own two feet no matter what
(47:06):
situational thing goes wrong.
SPEAKER_03 (47:11):
The other thing with being in a band, there are
things that you can control inyour own life, but it's hard to
control other people in yourband and what circumstances
they're going through.
And if you look at so manydifferent bands, a lot of them
have had to go through memberchanges.
Some people end up going solo orfor whatever reasons, changes
(47:35):
happen.
And to be proactive in havingthat thought in your head in
case something happens, what arewe going to do?
I think it's really importantand to give yourself time
because I know this is reallyhard to think of, but you know,
when they say one door closesand the new one opens and
sometimes that new door mighteven be better for you in the
(47:57):
long run.
It's hard to know that whileyou're in it because you're so
frustrated or so down and Yeah,because when
SPEAKER_04 (48:07):
I say have patience with yourself, it's okay to
grieve the path that you thoughtwas going to be your path.
And now that door is closedbecause those people aren't
going to be the same or thesituation has changed
drastically.
Allow yourself to grieve thatthat's not going to be how it
goes for you.
And you thought it would be.
And you've banked on this andyou've worked toward this.
(48:30):
You put blood, sweat, and tearsinto that path.
And the fact that the rug getsripped out from under you for
one reason or another isdevastating.
And so you're going to need timeto process that devastation.
And just to clarify, too, I wantto make sure I'm not suggesting
that we visualize all of theways that this could be better
or all of the ways that, well,if it goes wrong, then I will.
(48:53):
Because that's also an anxietyloop.
I feel like people tryoftentimes to be prepared for
every and all situations.
Don't do that to yourself.
There are endless ways for thisto go right and wrong.
But what I mean to say is justknow that whatever happens, if
and when it occurs, that you arestrong and capable and let that
(49:20):
be enough.
SPEAKER_03 (49:22):
Well, you know, it's funny you said the words, let
that be enough.
One thing that stuck out to mewhen we're talking about how
Matt started getting choked upAnd I asked him about what he
thought of when he was in ananxious moment.
And one thing he said was thatI'm not enough.
And that's a thought that goesthrough a lot of people's minds,
(49:42):
different times in their life.
What kind of advice would yougive to somebody if they have
this constant feeling of notbeing enough?
SPEAKER_04 (49:51):
There are probably several reasons.
Many of them might be historicalthat you must have learned to
doubt yourself.
Somewhere along the line thatyou got that idea.
Maybe identifying that moment isimportant.
Maybe it doesn't have anyimportance on your healing.
But simply knowing that it'sthere and having affirmations,
(50:14):
whether it's just something thatyou remind yourself, which I
think people findcounterintuitive, but it's true.
What we say about ourselvesmatters so, so much.
So if you can tell yourself, Allof the ways that you feel like
you have done your best and youcan remind yourself of moments
(50:39):
when you were validated.
I am enough because I gotmarried.
I had kids.
I've got my career is fairlysuccessful and I've gone through
these problems, but I figuredout how to do that then and move
through it.
So I'm sure this next problem Icould get through too.
But you might need to have anintentional effort in affirming
(51:01):
to yourself that I can do this.
I might be scared that I can't.
And sometimes maybe that fear isoverwhelming that you're not
enough, that you are somehowinsufficient as a person.
And that maybe that's the reasonwhy this bad thing happened.
But if you can take a stepoutside of yourself and write
down those affirmations andremember what is really going on
(51:24):
here, You're allowing the realworld to supersede your fear.
And I think that's very healingbecause you can reason with
yourself in that moment.
But you know what?
I know my anxiety is just toyingwith me at this moment because
there are so much evidence Ihave that lets me know that I am
(51:45):
doing a good job.
So I need to challenge thatvoice in my head and replace it
with a different voice in myhead for my own narrative.
be it neutral or positive.
Just stay away from all thenegative stuff.
SPEAKER_03 (52:00):
Right.
And I think life is just a lotof figuring things out because
most of the things that we gothrough, obstacles and
challenges, we don't have anyexperience with.
And whether we get advice fromother people or whether we have
to improvise and figure it out,it becomes this exercise that
(52:21):
Hopefully, the more we do, thebetter attitude we have about it
when we come across thesechallenges.
One thing that Matt mentioned isthat he grew up in a household
where competition was reallyhighly regarded.
He had this whole idea ofwinning and losing that was kind
of tied to a self-image.
(52:42):
What are some of the negativeconsequences that can happen
with this kind of thinking?
SPEAKER_04 (52:49):
that your value is built on your achievement and
that achievement is somehowgauged by someone else's
opinion.
Someone else's got the scoresheet and you're trying to hit
someone else's benchmarks andthat every time you hit that
benchmark, that's when you knowyou're valuable, but only then.
(53:13):
So now you've got a couple ofthings working against you.
First, that someone else, getsto define whether or not you've
achieved what you were workingtoward.
And second, that there's thisconstant competition and that
the only way that you can feellike you are valuable is by
winning.
(53:33):
And that's not going to teachresilience.
I think it teaches brutality,that you are supposed to always
be above everyone else.
And that is the only way thatyou can have value.
If everyone is beneath you, ifyou're number one all the time,
then everybody else is two andbelow.
(53:54):
But also that there is constantcompetition everywhere.
You begin to perceive everythingand everyone as competition.
So there's no relaxing.
And every new situation or newperson is a next challenge.
And that's just exhausting.
That's exhausting.
I don't think anyone can livewith their value being tied to
(54:17):
constant performance.
SPEAKER_03 (54:20):
Well, I think the other thing he mentioned was
that once he had a victory, hewould need another victory and
it keeps going and going, let'ssay, in order for someone to
feel good about themselves.
And I could see as you weretalking, it sounds like
everything becomes a threat ifeverything becomes a
competition.
And then also all those reallywonderful qualities that we love
(54:41):
in people like friendship andcompassion and a giving nature,
all of those things.
are almost discounted when youonly look at competition, right?
All those human qualities thatwe all love about people.
SPEAKER_04 (54:57):
Yeah, you become more of a performance robot than
you become a well-rounded,comfortable in your own skin
human.
You're never taught thosethings.
A lot of people have this sortof story where they feel like, I
got to a place where I needed tohave a certain skill set And I
(55:19):
didn't have it.
So it made me feel like less ofa person or that I was behind in
some way.
And being a person that's alwaysso focused on performance, I was
in denial.
I got really angry about it.
Almost like I felt like I turnedmy insecurities inward and beat
myself up about it because Ishould have done this.
(55:41):
I should have known how to becompassionate or kind or patient
right now that I'm a parent ornow that I am working alongside
other people in my career,whatever the situation is.
But when you can validate forthem or at least normalize that,
you know, you were never taughtthat.
That was never important to you.
That was not even written inwhere you came from.
(56:04):
So how could you have learned?
And then they go, I guess Icouldn't have.
Right, but you have theopportunity to now.
And as you stated, and I lovethat, comment that you made
about, we're all just figuringit out, then you can normalize
that for them too.
Don't worry about it.
There's a lot of people thatdon't have certain skill sets
(56:25):
and it's fine for you to learnit now.
SPEAKER_03 (56:28):
One thing that Matt talked about was how alcohol was
part of his story.
It came in and out of his lifeand sometimes really affected
his relationships, affectedworking with his band.
We've had so many musicians comeon and talk about battles with
substance abuse.
(56:49):
What can you say about addictionto kind of help steer others
away from using substances as afix?
Because it's kind of an easything to
SPEAKER_04 (56:57):
fall into, right?
So easy.
And that was going to be mycomment, too, was that it is the
biggest, most convincing liaryou will ever know.
It's so easy to fall intobecause it numbs.
That pain or that sadness, thatsuffering, that anger, it just
(57:18):
dulls whatever you don't want tofeel, which can be great in the
moment.
And I'm so confident that itonly lasts a moment.
Not even from my own personalexperience with it, but all of
the loved ones that I know havetold me that same story about
using anything as a band-aid.
(57:42):
I don't care if it's gambling orif it's drugs or if it's alcohol
or if it's relationships.
People fall into bed with eachother all the time.
You are trying to avoidsomething and it's not going
anywhere.
So the more that you use inorder to avoid it, you are
(58:02):
stuck.
You are prolonging dealing withthat thing that's going to allow
you to move on.
And I think when you talk aboutPeople not really being able to
feel like they have value intheir own lives or they're not
really focused on being awell-rounded person that is
confident in what they'relearning or at least able to
(58:25):
challenge themselves when theyneed to learn something else.
It's because maybe those stuckmoments.
People that use substances, itjust really brings you down,
really brings you down.
You're not able to do the thingsthat you want, interact with
people the way that you'd liketo.
(58:46):
You're no longer in control.
And that's the total opposite ofwhat it's going to tell you that
it's going to do.
SPEAKER_03 (58:56):
Right.
And you're probably not able toprocess the emotions that you
really need to process.
What are some things thatmusicians can do to keep mental
health a priority while they'reon tour?
SPEAKER_04 (59:09):
Small things.
Noticing when you're having amoment and you need to take some
time for you is probably ofutmost importance.
I don't really care what therules are or what society says
or what tour life is expectingof you.
Well, you're not going to beable to take a lot of breaks and
(59:31):
you're not going to be able toget a lot of sleep and you're
not going to be...
You need to sleep.
You need to eat.
Basic human needs are stillpriority, right?
No matter what anybody says,that's going to challenge you
for that because you're a brandand many people are focused on
(59:52):
your brand continuing to operateat a thousand percent every
moment of every day, becausethen you are more profitable and
more marketable.
They are not worried.
I say they, because it could beany one of several brands.
bajillion people in that wholeprocess.
They're not worried about youthe way that you need to worry
(01:00:13):
about you.
And the people close to youshould be able to validate that
for you and encourage you toworry about you the way you need
to, period.
Whether you need another nap oryou need to take a walk or you
need to, right?
It was weird for me when I wasfirst in the van with Six or
(01:00:34):
seven people, eight maybe, in a15-passenger van for months at a
time.
You have to be patient.
And when you cannot be patient,you need to verbalize.
Take a moment.
Because I really think it's nota lot.
You're not asking a lot.
You're asking to be human.
(01:00:55):
And everybody needs to be ableto be human.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:58):
A big thank you to our musical guest, Matt
Brandeberry of From Ashes toNew.
and our mental health expert,Eva Marie, a.k.a.
Amanda Lyberg, of Eva UnderFire.
For more information on FromAshes to New, their tour, their
album, Panic, and the QuarantineChronicles EPs, visit
FromAshesToNew.com and be sureto follow them on their socials,
(01:01:20):
at From Ashes to New.
For more information on AmandaLyberg, a.k.a.
Eva Marie of Eva Under Fire,their tour, and upcoming debut
album, Love, Drugs, and Misery,visit EvaUnderFire.com.
Follow them on their socials atEvaUnderFire and stay tuned for
a clip of their single,Unstoppable.
(01:01:41):
So until next time, be brave,ask for help, and be persistent
in finding the mental healththat
SPEAKER_00 (01:01:56):
you need.
UNKNOWN (01:01:57):
Unstoppable
SPEAKER_03 (01:02:08):
Check Your Head Podcast.com.
(01:02:35):
Check Your Head podcast issponsored by a 501c3 nonprofit
with all donations being taxdeductible.
Thank you for your support andthank you for listening.
Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, the podcast
where notable musicians andexperts share their stories and
solutions for mental health andwellness.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist and life coach
for musicians, and we're in themonth of March, which is Women's
History Month.
(00:20):
And in celebration, the TubiChannel is featuring a new music
documentary entitled Gone BeforeHer Time about four iconic
female musicians.
Amy Winehouse, Selena, Aaliyah,and Lisa Left Eye Lopez of TLC.
I was thrilled and honored asboth a mental health advocate
and a music journalist to beinterviewed for this documentary
(00:43):
to comment on these fourincredible artists and play a
part in telling their stories.
So please download the Tubichannel to watch free streaming
movies and TV shows, includingthe new documentary, Gone Before
Her Time.
Thank you.
Thank you.
(01:06):
Thank you.
(01:26):
Skrillex, with the lead singereven naming his beloved dog
Chester after Chester Benningtonof Linkin Park, another admired
band.
Their third and latest album,Panic, dropped alongside the
Pandemic Anxiety in 2020, yetthe song was actually about the
panic attacks experienced bylead singer Matt Brandeberry of
From Ashes to New.
(01:48):
Matt shares his story of panicattacks and alcohol abuse, along
with his solutions for recovery.
From Ashes to New also droppedthree EPs in 2021 called
Quarantine Chronicles, and we'llhear a clip of their single
Panic at the end of Matt'sinterview.
Next, our featured expert is apsychotherapist and clinical
(02:08):
psychologist specializing inanxiety and addiction recovery,
who also happens to be a singerof rock band Eva Under Fire.
Our mental health expert slashmusician today is Amanda Lyberg,
also known as Eva Marie.
lead singer of Eva Under Fire.
Eva Marie will talk about panicattack solutions, advocating for
(02:30):
your own mental health on tour,and facing our demons versus
drowning our sorrows.
We'll also hear a clip of EvaUnder Fire's new single,
Unstoppable, off their upcomingdebut album, Love, Drugs, and
Misery.
But first, let's hear MattBrandeberry of From Ashes to New
share his story.
The last album that she put outcalled Panic, actually started
(02:54):
out as a song dealing withanxiety.
When you look back, when was thefirst time that you noticed
anxiety being a problem or anissue in your life?
SPEAKER_01 (03:04):
So growing up, my grandmother was a very
strong-willed person.
And she used to tell me anytimethat I would get sick with a
stomachache or a headache, shewould say, oh, Matthew, it's all
in your head.
Now that I'm a little older, Ilook back and realize that was
her tradition.
trying to create a positive outof a negative.
(03:24):
And obviously, we're allfamiliar with the placebo
effect.
So she was just trying to takemy mind off things.
But as I grew up, I kind of keptthat mentality that she
instilled in me.
And I applied that to almosteverything that I did in life.
So when I would have an anxiousmoment, or I would have a
scenario where I was feelinganxious, I would just tell
myself, oh, it's just nerves aregoing to be fine, you can move
(03:44):
forward.
So I never really knew exactlywhat anxiety was.
And I was actually guilty earlyon of telling people that were
close to me who had dealt withthese types of things that it
was all in their head becausethat's what I had learned.
I had learned it's all in yourhead.
You can defeat this on your ownand you're making the worst out
of a scenario that you don'thave to.
(04:07):
But then I had a scenarioseveral years ago where I kind
of had a bit of a breakdown.
And from that point forward, Istarted dealing with panic
attacks and That's when Irealized like, wow, this is
really real.
And this is really something I'mtrying my best to control by
telling myself that it's all inmy head and it's not working.
So what is going on?
So that's when I realized around2016 is when I really realized,
(04:31):
okay, this is a real thing.
And now I know exactly what itis.
SPEAKER_03 (04:35):
Well, I'm glad you did the research that the
education needed to kind of findout what was going on because
it's a scary thing.
One thing you said was thatsometimes it comes on Without
any rhyme or reason, without anykind of trigger, it just
happens.
SPEAKER_02 (04:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (04:51):
Can you give me an example of what that's like and
maybe a time where that happenedkind of out of the blue?
SPEAKER_01 (04:57):
Sure.
My anxiety early on stemmed fromsomething that would trigger it.
Yeah.
The biggest trigger that I'mfamiliar with in mind was heart
palpitations.
And that came from underlyingstress or overconsumption of
caffeine while having underlyingstress.
And I would have a heartpalpitation and that would send
my mind into overdrive, fight orflight.
(05:19):
And I would just spiral out ofcontrol.
That would happen.
And then I'd have to lay downand take a nap and try and start
my day all over again because Iwas already at the point where
it just felt like it all camecrashing down.
But I mean, that all stemmedfrom A scenario in my life where
I felt like I put all my eggs inone basket and that basket kind
of tipped over and all thoseeggs broke.
(05:40):
So that was the underlyingproblem that was stressing me
out to the point where I wasdealing with these physical
ailments that were creatingpanic attacks.
SPEAKER_03 (05:51):
We've had quite a few musicians talk about panic
attacks on the podcast.
Now you talked about thatsituation that happened a few
years back.
Was that when the band was goingthrough changes in its members?
Can you tell me about what wasgoing on there?
SPEAKER_01 (06:05):
It's exactly what it was.
You know, I started the Americandream backwards.
So like most people, they'll getthe job and they'll have the
family and they'll get the housewith the fence and the yard and
the dogs.
And that's what I did.
And then I had the opportunitywith music to risk it all,
really.
It was putting all of your moneyon red and let the wheel spin
and hoping that it hit.
(06:26):
And that's what I did with mymusic career.
I traded in the security for myfamily, the house, and I traded
all that in for a shot atsomething greater.
And the band was given a rareopportunity out of nowhere.
It kind of just happened for us.
It was one of those luck storiesthat people talk about, and we
(06:47):
were off and running.
Everything wasn't so smooth.
We weren't making a lot ofmoney, but the goal was to
continue working as hard as wecould to get to the point where
money didn't become an issueanymore.
I'd gone from having a prettycushy career to going to a place
where it wasn't as secure andknowing that I had to work
through it because I didn't haveany other options.
(07:08):
I believe in if you want to dosomething in life, you can't
have a plan B.
If you have a plan B, you'llnever focus hard on your plan A.
I left all my plan Bs behind andI focused all on the band.
When we went through memberchanges in 2016 and That was a
wake-up call for me.
This could all end in the blinkof an eye.
(07:28):
If it all ends, what's my nextstep?
Because everything else isbehind me.
I don't have anything else aheadof me except for this.
There was one very specificnight that I realized that.
And that very specific night, Idon't know what a nervous
breakdown is.
I can assume that what happenedto me is a nervous breakdown.
But that was the night that Ikind of realized that it really
(07:51):
didn't matter.
If I die here tonight, What doesit really matter?
That was an eye-opener to me.
I'm at a point in life where Idon't care.
What just happened?
I cared about everything, andnow I'm at a point in life where
it feels like it's over anyway,so whatever.
I
SPEAKER_03 (08:08):
think I also read that there was a time where you
signed with Better Noise, and acouple of the members decided to
drop out for whatever reasons.
Was that the incident that madeyou feel that way, or what was
it exactly that you feel better?
triggered this nervousbreakdown?
SPEAKER_01 (08:26):
We had spent a lot of time on tour in 2015 and
2016.
We had just dropped day one andwe were out a lot.
So we didn't spend a lot of timeat home and we were touring in
an RV.
We weren't making a lot ofmoney.
Temperaments were running onhigh and we had gotten at each
other a lot.
Some people were partying harderthan others.
(08:47):
I was that person.
There was a lot of differentthings that played into the band
splitting ways.
And I am not exempt of fault byany means.
I think that we all played anequal part in what happened.
But we had a lot of importantthings lined up.
And our singer was quitting.
(09:07):
We're a two vocalist band.
I'm one of them.
And then we have another singer.
So our singer was quitting.
We had a lot of things lined up.
Expectations were really highfor the band.
And I couldn't get him to stay.
I'm like, hey, can I Just getyou to stay for this show and
this tour that we have lined up.
And then after that, we'llfigure it out.
And I couldn't find areplacement.
(09:29):
I had a lot of people that wererelying on me.
They were relying on the band.
And I just felt like I failedeverything.
As a leader, I felt like I wasjust a failure.
And failure is not somethingthat I take kindly.
I've grown up through sports.
And I've grown up competitive.
And my competitive nature isthat you can't fail.
(09:51):
That was a big failure to me.
So having that big failure was alot of stress.
That was that moment when Irealized that I was hopeless.
I realized I wasn't going to beable to do anything.
And I'm always the guy, I waslike, you can find a solution to
every problem.
And I had run into a problemthat I couldn't find a solution
for.
SPEAKER_03 (10:08):
Would you consider that nervous breakdown like a
depression?
Because it sounded like you felthopeless and you felt, oh gosh,
this is the end of the road forme.
What's left?
Nothing.
Would you describe it as that?
Or did you...
Would you describe it assomething else?
SPEAKER_01 (10:23):
I mean, I guess it could be described that way.
Honestly, I just know that I wasa mess.
And I had seen doctors and theydiagnosed me with certain things
and prescribed me certainmedications to overcome those
things.
I'm not really sure exactly whatI was dealing with.
I just know that it was a reallydark place.
So if depression is a reallydark place, that's where I was.
And I know that anxiety was abig part of it because I
(10:45):
couldn't get full sentences out.
I couldn't get full thoughtsout.
I thought I was dying everyhour.
life was miserable.
And there was so much behind thescenes that people didn't see
that I was dealing with.
And I felt like I couldn't openmyself up to certain people
because they would, you know,I'd be opening myself up for
judgment in a very vulnerableplace in my life that I didn't
(11:06):
think that I was going to beable to tolerate that judgment.
SPEAKER_03 (11:10):
You know, you're talking about what a lot of
people feel when they're in themidst of depression and anxiety
often comes with depression.
But you said that you talked tosome doctors to find out what
you can do about the situation.
What were some of the thingsthat you came across that
actually helped?
SPEAKER_01 (11:30):
Everything that I had was a band-aid.
It was a short-term solution toa long-term problem.
They gave me Xanadix.
They gave me Zoloft.
They gave me Welbutrin.
They gave me...
You name it, I had it.
And it was all...
a short-term solution to along-term problem.
I mean, could I have used itlong-term?
(11:51):
Absolutely.
And I'm not faulting anybodythat does because some people's
scenarios are worse than othersand different than others.
You know, everyone's wireddifferently.
But for me, it was a short-termsolution to a long-term problem.
And that seemed to be the onlyfix that I could get from
anybody was, here, take thismedicine.
So I began taking Zoloft, whichI hated.
(12:12):
So I gave that up for justtaking Xanax as needed.
And then I started taking Xanaxalmost daily, not as needed,
just because it made me feellike there wasn't a care in the
world.
I'm like, oh, okay.
I don't care about anything.
This is great.
But then I realized as I wastrying to put my life back
together, that that wasinhibiting me from doing that.
That was keeping me from caringenough to voyage forward.
(12:34):
It was just keeping me kind ofcomplacent and saying, hey, you
feel good right now.
Why do you need to do anythingelse?
So then I started looking forholistic alternatives to better
my well-being and my state ofmind and move myself forward on
my own behalf and at my own pacewith what felt comfortable to
me.
And that's when I found yoga.
I found meditation.
I found healthy lifestyles andeating and stopping with
(12:57):
substances and different thingsthat I had been using.
I had to get past that.
Toxic relationships.
Basically starting all over, butfrom a very clean place and just
trying to clean up my lifestyleand clean up my mind at the same
time.
And those are the things that Ifound that worked best for me.
SPEAKER_03 (13:16):
Well, that's a long journey.
Just what you've said rightthere.
I can only imagine some of thethings that you went through and
experienced during that time.
I know that sometimes Xanax isused for panic attacks as
needed, but it can also have anaddictive quality.
But then you said you also triedZoloft and you hated it.
What is it about that experiencethat didn't work for you?
SPEAKER_01 (13:40):
It was more or less the same as Xanax for me.
Those types of drugs just mademe feel like, they made me feel
better per se.
They made me feel like, oh,okay, the world is not crashing
down around you.
But they also made me not reallycare if the world came crashing
down around me.
And I didn't like that becauseI'm tenacious about it.
(14:01):
I'm a go-getter.
I'm a person who wakes up everymorning with a plan to go in and
carpe diem.
You know what I mean?
I need to go and I need to seizethe day.
And that's been my mentality foralmost all my life.
So something that takes thataway from me, sure, is masking
one problem that I'm currentlyhaving, but it's taking away
everything that I love about mylife.
(14:23):
And that was just horrible tome.
SPEAKER_03 (14:26):
Going back to that time, you mentioned about
partying too much.
doing different substances.
How did that play a factor inthe turbulence during that time?
I
SPEAKER_01 (14:38):
used to party pretty hard when I was younger, in my
teens.
I actually started smokingcigarettes when I was 13.
I grew up in the era of smokingcigarettes was cool, and I had
an older sister and olderfriends.
I guess I never really thoughtabout addiction.
I just did it.
Then as I got into my 20s, Istarted drinking a lot.
I drank really heavy for thebetter part of a decade.
(15:01):
Some nights, lucky to be alive.
And some of the decisions that Ihad made, lucky to be alive the
next day.
Those types of scenarios.
And my personality is already atype A personality.
So I'm already pretty confidentin myself to the point where I
feel like I can take the worldon.
And when I mixed that withalcohol, I was like Thanos.
(15:23):
I could take on the universe.
It didn't matter.
That doesn't blend well withevery personality.
You know, it already doesn'tblend well with every
personality when it comes downto sober.
But when you mix it withalcohol, it just becomes a whole
different animal.
And I think that's the best wayto describe it is I was an
animal.
And I didn't take intoconsideration everybody around
(15:44):
me.
I only took myself intoconsideration.
And it became pretty selfish ofme.
And I guess I didn't really seeit because I feel like I'm an
unselfish person sober.
But when I'm drunk, I'm selfishas can be.
It's kind of like Dr.
Jekyll and Hyde.
It was just a scenario where Iguess I didn't really see it,
but I would also drink to thepoint of blacking out all the
time, so I didn't really knowexactly what I was doing.
(16:06):
I would only go on people'sstories that they would tell me
afterwards.
It was when that regret reallyfinally started to pile up of
all the decisions that I madethat I looked back and went,
wow, I need to do somethingdifferently.
The problem is that I did thattwice in my life.
It wasn't like I did it Once andthen quit and I was done.
(16:27):
I did that before I started theband.
I had problems with alcohol.
I had problems with personalrelationships because of
alcohol.
From ashes to new, burning mylife down and going to something
new.
That was where the band namecame from.
So I had started a healthylifestyle and the band was the
forefront of that.
I had gone through havingdrinking problems and problems
(16:47):
with friends and things becauseof my drinking problems.
Being overweight because of mydrinking problems.
To quitting that, stopping that,going to the gym, getting into
better shape and keeping my headclean and writing songs about my
struggles.
So that's how this all started.
And then I fell down that holeagain.
And when I fell down that holeagain, it kind of put me back in
(17:10):
that same place, just withdifferent relationships.
SPEAKER_03 (17:14):
We have a lot of musicians that kind of fall into
drugs, alcohol, self-medicating,different scenarios like that.
Why do you think you took thedrinking to that extent?
I'm just wondering if there'sany mental health issues
underlying that or if it wasjust, you know, partying like a
rock star.
SPEAKER_01 (17:33):
Maybe a little bit of both.
So, like I said earlier, I'm anall-in person.
My mentality is to go out andget it, right?
And that's what I write about.
That's how I live my life.
My lyrics aren't fiction.
And when you would mix that withanything, I'm all in.
I just go.
(17:53):
The only thing that usuallystops me is physically being
stopped.
That's the way that I've alwaysbeen in my life.
I just have a switch.
Once I turn that switch on, theonly thing that turns that
switch off is the physicalmotion of turning that switch
off.
I know that sometimes drinkingcan mask personality problems.
(18:14):
not being able to come out ofyour shell.
And I know that drinking is asocial activity because some
people have a hard timesocializing.
For me, I didn't have thatproblem.
I didn't have a problemsocializing.
I just know that when I drank,that just went tenfold.
Like I socialized with literallyeverybody.
It didn't matter.
Sometimes that was a good thingand brought a good story out
(18:37):
that you can tell people foryears to come.
And sometimes it was a badthing.
I just think that my personalitychanged.
My personality is all in.
SPEAKER_03 (18:45):
Taking things to the extreme, it sounds like.
SPEAKER_01 (18:48):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (18:49):
Okay, so when things crashed and burned with the
band, how did you pick yourselfup and put things back together?
To
SPEAKER_01 (18:59):
be honest, I still struggle with it to this day.
And that was six years ago.
Wow, that's a long time.
But I still have those lingeringeffects from everything that
happened to this day.
So it's not like it's not adaily grind.
It's definitely changed who Iam.
And I struggled daily to try andfind that person again, or at
least the better part of thatperson, because there was a bad
(19:19):
part of that person.
So I struggled daily to try tofind that.
But I just had to get back todoing what I do.
I just had to get back to doingwhat I know best, competing.
That's what I've done my entirelife.
I've played sports my entirelife.
So I had to get back tocompeting.
I had to get back to looking forthe truth in the world and the
truth in myself.
And I had to get back to writingmusic, creating songs.
(19:44):
channeling that energy into anoutlet that's better than any
other outlet that I've ever had.
That's what music really is tome.
I say it on stage and I say iteverywhere I go.
It's therapy.
It's the best therapy.
It's cool because it's therapyfor the listener and the
creator.
It's therapeutic.
That's how I started the ballrolling forward was to just get
(20:05):
back to doing what I know how todo best.
SPEAKER_03 (20:08):
You're absolutely right.
I do think musicians arehealers.
There was a social media postthat I read of yours, and it
read, after having my anxietyscream at me all day, this is
exactly what I need, which wasthe panic music video.
When your anxiety screams atyou, what does it say?
SPEAKER_01 (20:25):
That's hard.
Stop.
Give up.
Quit.
You're not good enough.
Sucks.
But that's what it is.
That's an emotional question.
Sorry, go ahead.
No, it's
SPEAKER_03 (20:42):
okay.
Sometimes when we have to reallystop and think, it maybe gives
us some more insight onourselves.
But you talked about some of theways that you've learned how to
deal with these thoughts in yourmind.
Can you talk about how you putthat at bay and some of the
healthy things that you're doingnow?
(21:03):
Can
SPEAKER_01 (21:04):
you just give me one second?
Sorry.
I'm going to choke up oneverything I say now.
Just give me one second tocompose myself here.
Wow.
I don't think I've ever reallytalked about these things so
much.
SPEAKER_03 (21:16):
Tell me about how you're feeling.
Why did that choke you up somuch?
SPEAKER_01 (21:20):
Like I said, I come from a competitive background,
so everything for me is justwin, win, win, win, win.
When you feel like you'relosing, it's like, how do you
win?
I'm just looking for ways towin.
I think that's what my anxietystems from is competitiveness.
How do you win?
How do you win when you don'treally have the ability to do
anything other than what you'recapable of doing?
(21:42):
That's what makes it difficultis that you can only do what you
can do.
And you can only get so good atwhat you can do.
And you can become the best,really.
I really feel like everybody hasthe opportunity to be able to
become the best.
But it's a grind getting there.
And how long does it take,really?
And I think that's what isscreaming at you all the time is
like, be better, do better, getbetter.
(22:05):
When I was a kid, everyone justnaysayed me, really.
I had a hard time believing inmyself because I couldn't find
people that believed in me.
I think that's why that questionhit me so hard is it kind of
just took me back to when I wasa kid.
It was like, you know, what doesthat anxiety scream at you?
And it's do better, be better.
To answer that question is like,how do you do that?
Besides working your ass off allday, every day, how do you do
(22:26):
that?
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_03 (22:28):
And also, what is the win?
What is it that represents awinner?
There's so many different waysto describe what that means to
you.
And I guess it's personal forevery person.
But also being brought up inwhether it's a society or
whether it's a household thatreally encourages winning versus
(22:49):
losing, that's very black andwhite.
We all know that as we try towin, we can lose.
There's a lot of mistakes thatare made that teach us how to
get better.
How do you deal with that?
Because there are losses andsometimes you have to step back.
What is it?
You fall back two steps.
(23:09):
To go forward three steps.
SPEAKER_01 (23:12):
So I'm like, yeah, I don't really know.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (23:15):
I guess the thing is, we all mess up.
We all mess up.
SPEAKER_01 (23:20):
Yeah.
I have a lyric in a song of ourscalled My Name.
It's, you're only going to loseif you don't learn from your
defeats.
And that comes from a place ofwisdom.
That's not something that Ialways knew.
I didn't know that our defeatswere going to be the best
learning tool for me to be ableto move forward.
But I guess it's like an NFLteam watching tape at the end of
(23:40):
the game that they just lost.
Just trying to figure out, okay,how did we lose this game and
how can we correct thosemistakes?
And that's just been a big partof my life since then is just
trying to correct the errors andnot make the same mistakes and
not fall down.
Like I said, I had a scenariowhere I had fallen down a hole
and then I got back out and Ifell down again.
(24:01):
I'm trying not to do that.
But my mentality, it's awinner's mentality.
You have to win.
Probably why I like Cobra Kai somuch.
It's kind of like with drinking,I guess.
Maybe I'm just realizing thisright now, but I don't know how
to turn that off.
So when I win something, okay, Igot that.
Now what?
I'm the type of personalitythat's never really satisfied
(24:24):
with each victory that I have.
I see that as a victory, but Ineed another one.
That's where my happiness stemsfrom.
It really is victory.
SPEAKER_03 (24:34):
So that's almost like an obsession.
okay, where's my next one?
Just this feeling of, okay, I'ma winner, I'm a winner.
But then there's the flip sidewhen things don't work out that
could also be like thedouble-edged sword.
But it also sounds maybe likeyour self-esteem is wrapped up
in the ability to win versusmaybe other things about your
(24:55):
personality.
SPEAKER_01 (24:56):
Yeah, I think so.
I think that just comes fromyears of being competitive.
And that's just how it waswired.
When you're young and you're, Asponge.
You absorb everything.
Young people are veryimpressionable.
And I guess the impression thatwas left on me being competitive
in sports was I have to win.
You have to be the best.
(25:17):
You know, I wasn't like the coolkid in school.
I didn't have the circle of coolfriends.
So I wasn't winning there.
At that point in time, it playsa big part on your psyche.
So I looked for other outlets tojust be a winner in everything
else that I could do.
Now I've found what I do is mycomfort zone.
being a musician.
(25:38):
So I've been able to take thosetwo things and put them
together.
And stemming back to the bandand the onset of some of these
issues, that's why the wholeworld came crashing down around
me is because I found those twothings that I really love and
they both seem to be ripped frommy grasp at one moment.
SPEAKER_03 (25:56):
It sounds like the love and acceptance made you
feel like you didn't have toprove yourself with winning.
But there's also situations, I'msure you can look back, where it
seems like a door closes andslams in your face really hard.
But then another opportunitycomes up that's unexpected that
might even be better and takeyou down a different road that
(26:20):
might even be better in the longrun.
SPEAKER_01 (26:23):
Yeah, we're definitely in that scenario now
from that door that closed.
I know that now.
But it also brought some thingsout that I didn't realize were
there.
That made it hard, but it stillmakes it hard.
But I know that the overarchingproblem that we had at that
point in time is now fixed andbetter.
So I'm obviously good there.
(26:44):
This industry in particular,it's actually really difficult
to be yourself, believe it ornot.
That's one of the things that Istruggle with every day is that
I really just want to be myself.
But then when I do that, I openmyself to judgment.
And I'm not necessarilyconcerned about the judgment,
but the people that I work withor work for are...
(27:04):
scared of the judgment that icould potentially have to endure
and that makes them think adifferent way which then could
shape my career in a differentway because they pull strings on
my career so it's just a bigspider web and trying to
navigate through a spider web isnot easy
SPEAKER_03 (27:23):
i mean especially being on tour that's a whole
other thing how do you keep yourmental health in check while
you're on tour i
SPEAKER_01 (27:33):
think i do all right on tour The longing for home, I
think, helps you get through it.
At the same time, it drives youmad.
So when you're at home, you'rejust like, oh, man, I want to
get back out.
I can't wait to get back out.
And then when you get back out,you're like, oh, man, I can't
wait to get back home.
I can't wait to get back home.
So I think that it always kindof kept me on my toes.
And it was just like, all right,this is a cool balance in life.
(27:54):
There's no better therapy thanbeing on stage in front of
thousands of people anddelivering your message or
rocking out to your own music.
I mean, it's killing.
Of course, you butt heads withyour bandmates and your crew and
stuff like that, but that's tobe expected.
You're living with a group ofpeople in a small room for an
extended period of time.
You're going to have that.
I mean, that can get stressful,but knowing that I'm going to
(28:17):
get back home to my family andto my comfort zone, that just
makes it a little bit easier.
SPEAKER_03 (28:23):
You mentioned things like meditation, exercise, diet,
positive thinking.
Can you touch on some of thoseas far as maintenance things you
do for your mental health?
SPEAKER_01 (28:33):
Positive thinking is the biggest thing because every
thought compounds.
It doesn't matter if it's apositive thought or a negative
thought.
Every thought that you havecompounds and it escalates.
Mentally, it's a scale.
Any scale that's at 51% getstipped that way.
The more you think that way, themore that continues to happen.
(28:55):
I was fortunate enough to gointo the place that I was and
get out of it.
Still there, you know what Imean?
Not as bad as it was, but stillthere.
But I was fortunate enough tolearn these things because, like
you said, one door closes,another one opens.
I was able to learn positiveaffirmation and manifestation.
And if I didn't go through that,I may not have realized what it
(29:19):
was.
Now, looking back in hindsight,I think that my competitive
nature and my always wanting towin, I think I was already
manifesting without knowing.
But now I know exactly whycertain things worked and
certain things didn't work.
And it stems to positivethinking.
The more negative you think, themore negative things are going
(29:42):
to happen.
The more positive you think, themore positive things are going
to happen.
And that doesn't mean thatyou're continuing to think
positively something negativewon't happen.
That just means that it'llhappen less frequently.
That's where I try to stay.
And it's, oh, it's not easy.
It sucks.
It sucks, especially when you'relike, no, everything sucks.
Everything's broken andeverything sucks.
(30:04):
It's hard to get out of that.
We're creatures of habit.
I try to look at that too andunderstand that I can continue
to tell myself, no, it doesn'twork that way.
This is how it works.
The more that I tell myselfthat, the deeper of a hole I
dig.
I just try to tell myself whenI'm spiraling out of control,
(30:25):
okay, Matt, you can continuespiraling out of control by
Telling yourself that bad thingskeep happening, bad things keep
happening.
Or you can say, all right, thisis enough of this bad stuff.
I need to get out of this holeand I need to move forward.
And this might come with me, butI need to defeat it.
SPEAKER_03 (30:44):
Yeah, because it's like a battle in your mind where
the tide is going down.
I'm losing here.
What's wrong with me?
Why isn't this working?
And then you've got to goagainst the tide by saying these
positive things and puttingyourself on a different track.
SPEAKER_01 (31:00):
Our song, Forgotten, if you read the lyrics to
Forgotten, using the tidereference,
SPEAKER_02 (31:06):
it
SPEAKER_01 (31:06):
says to feel like you're drowning.
I wrote an ocean of its own froma perspective of having a cinder
block tied around my ankle andat the bottom of a big body of
water.
I visualized what it would looklike at the bottom of that body
of water, peaceful, with the skybright above me and me looking
(31:31):
up from the bottom, knowing thatmaybe I'm 30 feet from the
surface, and looking up andgoing, how do I get out of this?
This is a situation where I feellike I'm way in over my head.
I'm cinderblocked to the bottomof a lake, and how do I get out?
SPEAKER_03 (31:47):
That's really poetic.
And it actually is a greatdescription of how we can feel
at times when we feel like we'resinking.
and having to find ways to comeup for air or find ways to stay
above the tide so that we don'tsink.
One thing that interests me isyou mentioned meditation as
something that you do.
Tell me how you got into thatand what it does for you.
SPEAKER_01 (32:10):
So I used frequencies to start.
So like binary sounds anddifferent waveform frequencies.
I was turned on to that becauseI actually had two different
reasons.
I had panic attacks that werewaking me up at night.
while I was sleeping, my brainwas just waking me up out of a
dead sleep.
(32:30):
And then I also had tinnitus inmy ear really bad.
So my ear would ring reallyloudly and it would make it
difficult to sleep because itwas so loud.
So I decided that I would startusing frequencies that kind of
mimicked the sound that was inmy ear to try and sleep at night
so that I would use that todrown out the sound that was in
(32:53):
my ears.
And then I realized the morethat I researched, I realized
that those frequencies actuallywere positively affecting my
life.
I didn't realize that I was justusing it to try and stay asleep.
And then I realized thatparticular frequencies work with
different chakras.
And I decided one day I waslike, you know what?
(33:13):
I'm going to try this frequencyand I'm going to try and relax
my mind because that's a reallyhard thing for me to do.
I'm going to try and relax mymind and see where I go.
I ended up venturing back to atime earlier on in life when I
was really, really happy.
I was like, wow, breakthrough.
It wasn't like I thought aboutit.
I was actually there.
(33:34):
It was almost like I was asleep,but I wasn't asleep.
I actually ventured back there.
I felt like I was there inphysical form.
That was when I realized, wow,this actually works.
That made me really happy.
I'm really happy right now.
How do I continue that?
How do I continue this trend ofhappiness?
Through those different types ofexercises, I've been able to.
(33:55):
And again, I steer up that path.
I know that it works.
And then for some reason, Idecide to just not do it for a
while.
And then I get into a badheadspace.
I'm like, I need to go back andI need to do that again.
SPEAKER_03 (34:06):
You've obviously done some research and reading
or maybe it's therapy that youfound these different
techniques.
Where do you normally find thesekind of techniques that help
you?
I
SPEAKER_01 (34:19):
know that some people think it's foo-foo, but
Danny, when he came in, Hesolved how bad of a headspace I
was in.
He didn't know anything that wasgoing on.
He was singing and we selectedhim to be in this band.
So as we were working on therecord and he got to know me
personally, he realized how muchI had been struggling and he
recommended The Secret.
(34:40):
And he was like, hey, I don'tknow what your thoughts are on
something like this.
But I know that this has workedfor some people that I know.
They've read this book andthey've been able to pull
themselves out of pretty darkplaces by what this book has to
tell.
Oddly enough, my wife, prior tothat, told me that I should read
that book because Jim Carrey hadrecommended it.
(35:01):
She's like, you should read thisbook.
I have a friend that's readingit.
I think you would really likeit.
And I brushed it off.
I'm like, nah.
So finally, I listened and Idecided to read it.
And it was just the things inthe book were just so specific.
to the things that I was goingthrough.
But I was like, oh man, likemaybe I'm creating this.
I'm creating this for myself.
(35:22):
And maybe if I change the waythat I'm approaching, you know,
trying to get out of this mess,maybe if I change my approach, I
can actually get through this.
That book was the forefront ofme.
And then there were just someother ones that were just about
positive manifestation andaffirmation that I read to try
and stay in the headspace.
SPEAKER_03 (35:42):
Thank you for that.
One thing you talk about ispanic attacks.
What is one really goodsuggestion or a way that you
deal with those panic attackswhen they come on?
What do you do to help quellthose?
SPEAKER_01 (36:00):
One of the things that I have learned over the
course of the last couple yearsthat have really helped me, and
this might sound morbid, butit's to not care so much about
dying, which Sounds terrible.
But at the same sense, I'verealized that my panic has
always come from, oh man, thisscenario is going to lead to
(36:22):
this scenario, which is going tolead to ultimately death.
So I had the doom, is what somepeople call it.
I had the doom.
And I realized to not care somuch, because as long as I'm not
inflicting that on myself, Ihave no control over it.
I've been in a position myentire life, competitively, I
(36:42):
have to control everything.
That's not a good place to be inwhen it comes to things that you
can't control at all.
So one of the things that hasmade it easy for me is to let go
of control of it and just go,you know what?
I can't control this.
And if this is going to happen,it's going to happen.
But me thinking about it overand over and over again is just
(37:02):
going to make it worse.
And while I'm here and I'm aliveand I'm doing the things that I
love doing, I should enjoy themand not let these negative
things come in and affect that.
That's been the best therapy forme is to realize that I'm not in
control of everything and I canonly control the things that I
can control and that we are allquite alike when it comes down
(37:24):
to the actual fiber of ourbeing.
And that makes you feel not soalone.
SPEAKER_03 (37:31):
Right.
And one thing that you did withPanic is that you donated the
proceeds to Crew Nation, theindustry crews that are
struggling during this pandemic.
which I really praise you for.
Do you have any other plans tospread this mental health
message through actions in 2022?
(37:51):
I
SPEAKER_01 (37:54):
think a big thing for me is that helping people
realize that it's okay to reachtheir hand out and go, hey, I'm
struggling here.
So that's what I try and dothrough music.
That's the way that it comesout.
And I've been told that that'sthe way that it is.
Hey, do you realize that youopened my mind to this?
Maybe that was me opening mymind and then you went, oh, aha.
(38:15):
I'm just going to continue thatreally and just reach my hand
out and say, hey, we're notalone.
And I'm going to be a little bitmore angsty too, to be honest, a
little bit more to the edgy sideof my personality and hope that
helps everyone else realize thatsometimes a good scream really,
really, really helps.
UNKNOWN (38:35):
Make it go away.
SPEAKER_00 (38:36):
I'll see you next time.
SPEAKER_03 (39:03):
Next up, our expert is a clinical psychologist,
psychotherapist, and lead singerof rock band Eva Under Fire.
Eva Marie, also known as AmandaLyberg, has the clinical
experience as a psychotherapistspecializing in anxiety and
substance abuse recovery withthe added experience of being a
touring musician.
Eva Marie will share herprofessional insight on panic
(39:27):
attacks, alcohol abuse recovery,and more.
Now let's hear expert Eva Marie,a.k.a.
Amanda Lyberg, share herknowledge and advice.
I just love your uniqueperspective on being a musician
and a psychotherapist.
I feel like you have this reallycalming presence about you,
(39:48):
which is so important as apsychotherapist to feel like
this care and trust at the sametime.
I love that, and I appreciateyou.
Going back to MattBrandenberry's interview
earlier, What is it that kind ofstuck out to you as he was
talking?
SPEAKER_04 (40:06):
What I really like about From Ashes to New is that
they've always been authentic.
Their story is what they'vewritten about, and they're very
honest in their lyricism, andthey're very honest in the
emotions that they portray intheir music.
And it was very interesting tome to read that panic was not
built around the pandemic, thatit was a real story, an honest
story about a personal journeythrough anxiety.
(40:29):
And then it just so happened tobe that the world went through
this terrible time and now it'sso applicable on such a giant,
massive scale.
So I thought that was reallyinteresting that I really hadn't
realized that it was more soabout a personal coming through
anxiety type of moment than itwas about the pandemic.
SPEAKER_03 (40:49):
When I was doing my research, I read that he had a
breakdown and during that time,panic attacks were triggered for
him.
With your experience, What aresome ways that musicians can
deal with panic attacks?
SPEAKER_04 (41:03):
One of the things that you alluded to is really
important about reframing wherethis comes from.
That it's not because youyourself are making this up,
right?
That it is something in yourbody.
We like patterns.
Our human body, our human brainlikes patterns.
So when there's fear that'sintroduced, you immediately
(41:26):
avoid what you are fearful of.
And so that avoidance becomeshabitual.
So your brain is misfiring ateverything that it perceives as
a threat.
And it could be that somethingis completely miswired, that
this is not threatening.
The food is not threatening.
The performance is notthreatening.
Leaving home is not threatening.
(41:47):
But your body responds to it asthough it is.
So I guess the three things thatI would say would be to reframe
your ideas about where thiscomes from.
and to get some knowledge abouthow it may have occurred for
you.
But also, getting support inthat is important.
Talk about it.
Find someone that you trust.
(42:08):
Find someone that you can reachout to that's reliable and that
you count as trustworthy andreasonable, that you can be
honest with them about this.
Be honest with self is great.
Be honest with other people isalso a challenge, but it's so
beneficial to have support.
And then the third thing that Iwould consider obviously is
(42:29):
clinical treatment.
So a lot of things for peoplenow are all accessible with
telehealth.
You can talk to a therapist andyou can keep in touch just as
easily as we do on Zoommeetings.
I know our particular practiceuses basically FaceTime for
physicians.
It's doxy.me, just a website,but it's HIPAA compliant.
(42:50):
And the other part of clinicaltreatment might be medication.
I don't usually recommend justmedication.
Pills are kind of likemisinterpreted as the magic wand
that they're going to fixeverything.
That's not how it goes.
But medication with therapy canbe very effective.
The reason is because medicationcan bring you down to a baseline
(43:12):
that is more tolerable andallows you to think through it.
Because if you can imagine, forexample, some people who have
health anxiety, may be triggeredby whatever food exists.
Dinner could be a trigger.
And if that person perceivesthat food as life-threatening
(43:33):
right there in the moment, yourtrigger is a reaction.
It's not something that youthink about.
Your body responds, which is whyit's very difficult to control
and very difficult to thinkthrough.
What medication can do is makethat reaction lesser.
and bring you closer to abaseline so that you can access
(43:53):
your reasoning ability toremember what you went through
in therapy.
Okay, this is an opportunity forme to reframe.
Let's challenge what's happeningin my body.
Let me talk to my body and tellit that it's okay to calm down.
I'm going to focus on mybreathing, my mindfulness,
right?
All of a sudden, you have accessto all these things, these tools
(44:14):
that you know about.
If you're afraid to immediatelyand you're on 10, all that
reasoning goes out the windowbecause you're scared.
SPEAKER_03 (44:23):
I know there are breathing techniques or
different things you can learnthrough therapy, like being more
aware of what's triggering you.
I think Matt even mentionedusing Xanax, which can sometimes
act quickly to calm you down.
But the flip side is that itdoes have an addictive property.
And if you start to rely on thattoo often, then it could be a
(44:48):
problem.
But Matt also alluded to thisbreakdown triggered by being on
tour and having one of hissingers suddenly quit the band.
And there was no backup.
He didn't know what to do.
And I think back on somemusicians that I've worked with,
and oftentimes when thingschange like that suddenly,
(45:09):
members leave for whateverreasons, it's a huge letdown.
It's an upheaval.
What are your thoughts on how todeal with these changes that can
happen within bands?
SPEAKER_04 (45:21):
Sure.
Just situational things, right?
If they're not really tied tosomething that is uniquely you,
maybe then it would be lessthreatening.
But if whatever is changed andit's changed drastically and you
identify that as being part ofwho you are, then it shakes you
(45:42):
to your core.
And when I look at And I look atMatt's lyricism and I look at
what his music means to him andthe things that I've heard in
interviews.
It's not just that it changeddrastically.
It's that it changed drasticallyand it meant so much to him that
it was a part of who he was andhis identity.
(46:02):
So I feel like when stuff likethat changes, first of all,
maybe just expect that it'sgoing to be hard and that it
should be.
When anything shakes you to thecore, it's not going to be easy
like that.
So you can't just expectyourself to shut it off and move
on.
You might need some time toprocess this.
(46:22):
You might need to find aphysical outlet.
If you've got a punching bag,that might be the time, right?
And then try and give yourselfspace to simply be blindly
confident in who you are and whyyou got there in the first
place.
I will figure this out.
It will get taken care ofbecause I trust in my own work
(46:46):
ethic.
I trust in my own values and Itrust in my ability to ask
questions of myself, askquestions of others.
So to sort of fortify yourselfand be ready for potentially
life-changing moments, dointernal work.
Take self-inventory.
Make sure that you can stand onyour own two feet no matter what
(47:06):
situational thing goes wrong.
SPEAKER_03 (47:11):
The other thing with being in a band, there are
things that you can control inyour own life, but it's hard to
control other people in yourband and what circumstances
they're going through.
And if you look at so manydifferent bands, a lot of them
have had to go through memberchanges.
Some people end up going solo orfor whatever reasons, changes
(47:35):
happen.
And to be proactive in havingthat thought in your head in
case something happens, what arewe going to do?
I think it's really importantand to give yourself time
because I know this is reallyhard to think of, but you know,
when they say one door closesand the new one opens and
sometimes that new door mighteven be better for you in the
(47:57):
long run.
It's hard to know that whileyou're in it because you're so
frustrated or so down and Yeah,because when
SPEAKER_04 (48:07):
I say have patience with yourself, it's okay to
grieve the path that you thoughtwas going to be your path.
And now that door is closedbecause those people aren't
going to be the same or thesituation has changed
drastically.
Allow yourself to grieve thatthat's not going to be how it
goes for you.
And you thought it would be.
And you've banked on this andyou've worked toward this.
(48:30):
You put blood, sweat, and tearsinto that path.
And the fact that the rug getsripped out from under you for
one reason or another isdevastating.
And so you're going to need timeto process that devastation.
And just to clarify, too, I wantto make sure I'm not suggesting
that we visualize all of theways that this could be better
or all of the ways that, well,if it goes wrong, then I will.
(48:53):
Because that's also an anxietyloop.
I feel like people tryoftentimes to be prepared for
every and all situations.
Don't do that to yourself.
There are endless ways for thisto go right and wrong.
But what I mean to say is justknow that whatever happens, if
and when it occurs, that you arestrong and capable and let that
(49:20):
be enough.
SPEAKER_03 (49:22):
Well, you know, it's funny you said the words, let
that be enough.
One thing that stuck out to mewhen we're talking about how
Matt started getting choked upAnd I asked him about what he
thought of when he was in ananxious moment.
And one thing he said was thatI'm not enough.
And that's a thought that goesthrough a lot of people's minds,
(49:42):
different times in their life.
What kind of advice would yougive to somebody if they have
this constant feeling of notbeing enough?
SPEAKER_04 (49:51):
There are probably several reasons.
Many of them might be historicalthat you must have learned to
doubt yourself.
Somewhere along the line thatyou got that idea.
Maybe identifying that moment isimportant.
Maybe it doesn't have anyimportance on your healing.
But simply knowing that it'sthere and having affirmations,
(50:14):
whether it's just something thatyou remind yourself, which I
think people findcounterintuitive, but it's true.
What we say about ourselvesmatters so, so much.
So if you can tell yourself, Allof the ways that you feel like
you have done your best and youcan remind yourself of moments
(50:39):
when you were validated.
I am enough because I gotmarried.
I had kids.
I've got my career is fairlysuccessful and I've gone through
these problems, but I figuredout how to do that then and move
through it.
So I'm sure this next problem Icould get through too.
But you might need to have anintentional effort in affirming
(51:01):
to yourself that I can do this.
I might be scared that I can't.
And sometimes maybe that fear isoverwhelming that you're not
enough, that you are somehowinsufficient as a person.
And that maybe that's the reasonwhy this bad thing happened.
But if you can take a stepoutside of yourself and write
down those affirmations andremember what is really going on
(51:24):
here, You're allowing the realworld to supersede your fear.
And I think that's very healingbecause you can reason with
yourself in that moment.
But you know what?
I know my anxiety is just toyingwith me at this moment because
there are so much evidence Ihave that lets me know that I am
(51:45):
doing a good job.
So I need to challenge thatvoice in my head and replace it
with a different voice in myhead for my own narrative.
be it neutral or positive.
Just stay away from all thenegative stuff.
SPEAKER_03 (52:00):
Right.
And I think life is just a lotof figuring things out because
most of the things that we gothrough, obstacles and
challenges, we don't have anyexperience with.
And whether we get advice fromother people or whether we have
to improvise and figure it out,it becomes this exercise that
(52:21):
Hopefully, the more we do, thebetter attitude we have about it
when we come across thesechallenges.
One thing that Matt mentioned isthat he grew up in a household
where competition was reallyhighly regarded.
He had this whole idea ofwinning and losing that was kind
of tied to a self-image.
(52:42):
What are some of the negativeconsequences that can happen
with this kind of thinking?
SPEAKER_04 (52:49):
that your value is built on your achievement and
that achievement is somehowgauged by someone else's
opinion.
Someone else's got the scoresheet and you're trying to hit
someone else's benchmarks andthat every time you hit that
benchmark, that's when you knowyou're valuable, but only then.
(53:13):
So now you've got a couple ofthings working against you.
First, that someone else, getsto define whether or not you've
achieved what you were workingtoward.
And second, that there's thisconstant competition and that
the only way that you can feellike you are valuable is by
winning.
(53:33):
And that's not going to teachresilience.
I think it teaches brutality,that you are supposed to always
be above everyone else.
And that is the only way thatyou can have value.
If everyone is beneath you, ifyou're number one all the time,
then everybody else is two andbelow.
(53:54):
But also that there is constantcompetition everywhere.
You begin to perceive everythingand everyone as competition.
So there's no relaxing.
And every new situation or newperson is a next challenge.
And that's just exhausting.
That's exhausting.
I don't think anyone can livewith their value being tied to
(54:17):
constant performance.
SPEAKER_03 (54:20):
Well, I think the other thing he mentioned was
that once he had a victory, hewould need another victory and
it keeps going and going, let'ssay, in order for someone to
feel good about themselves.
And I could see as you weretalking, it sounds like
everything becomes a threat ifeverything becomes a
competition.
And then also all those reallywonderful qualities that we love
(54:41):
in people like friendship andcompassion and a giving nature,
all of those things.
are almost discounted when youonly look at competition, right?
All those human qualities thatwe all love about people.
SPEAKER_04 (54:57):
Yeah, you become more of a performance robot than
you become a well-rounded,comfortable in your own skin
human.
You're never taught thosethings.
A lot of people have this sortof story where they feel like, I
got to a place where I needed tohave a certain skill set And I
(55:19):
didn't have it.
So it made me feel like less ofa person or that I was behind in
some way.
And being a person that's alwaysso focused on performance, I was
in denial.
I got really angry about it.
Almost like I felt like I turnedmy insecurities inward and beat
myself up about it because Ishould have done this.
(55:41):
I should have known how to becompassionate or kind or patient
right now that I'm a parent ornow that I am working alongside
other people in my career,whatever the situation is.
But when you can validate forthem or at least normalize that,
you know, you were never taughtthat.
That was never important to you.
That was not even written inwhere you came from.
(56:04):
So how could you have learned?
And then they go, I guess Icouldn't have.
Right, but you have theopportunity to now.
And as you stated, and I lovethat, comment that you made
about, we're all just figuringit out, then you can normalize
that for them too.
Don't worry about it.
There's a lot of people thatdon't have certain skill sets
(56:25):
and it's fine for you to learnit now.
SPEAKER_03 (56:28):
One thing that Matt talked about was how alcohol was
part of his story.
It came in and out of his lifeand sometimes really affected
his relationships, affectedworking with his band.
We've had so many musicians comeon and talk about battles with
substance abuse.
(56:49):
What can you say about addictionto kind of help steer others
away from using substances as afix?
Because it's kind of an easything to
SPEAKER_04 (56:57):
fall into, right?
So easy.
And that was going to be mycomment, too, was that it is the
biggest, most convincing liaryou will ever know.
It's so easy to fall intobecause it numbs.
That pain or that sadness, thatsuffering, that anger, it just
(57:18):
dulls whatever you don't want tofeel, which can be great in the
moment.
And I'm so confident that itonly lasts a moment.
Not even from my own personalexperience with it, but all of
the loved ones that I know havetold me that same story about
using anything as a band-aid.
(57:42):
I don't care if it's gambling orif it's drugs or if it's alcohol
or if it's relationships.
People fall into bed with eachother all the time.
You are trying to avoidsomething and it's not going
anywhere.
So the more that you use inorder to avoid it, you are
(58:02):
stuck.
You are prolonging dealing withthat thing that's going to allow
you to move on.
And I think when you talk aboutPeople not really being able to
feel like they have value intheir own lives or they're not
really focused on being awell-rounded person that is
confident in what they'relearning or at least able to
(58:25):
challenge themselves when theyneed to learn something else.
It's because maybe those stuckmoments.
People that use substances, itjust really brings you down,
really brings you down.
You're not able to do the thingsthat you want, interact with
people the way that you'd liketo.
(58:46):
You're no longer in control.
And that's the total opposite ofwhat it's going to tell you that
it's going to do.
SPEAKER_03 (58:56):
Right.
And you're probably not able toprocess the emotions that you
really need to process.
What are some things thatmusicians can do to keep mental
health a priority while they'reon tour?
SPEAKER_04 (59:09):
Small things.
Noticing when you're having amoment and you need to take some
time for you is probably ofutmost importance.
I don't really care what therules are or what society says
or what tour life is expectingof you.
Well, you're not going to beable to take a lot of breaks and
(59:31):
you're not going to be able toget a lot of sleep and you're
not going to be...
You need to sleep.
You need to eat.
Basic human needs are stillpriority, right?
No matter what anybody says,that's going to challenge you
for that because you're a brandand many people are focused on
(59:52):
your brand continuing to operateat a thousand percent every
moment of every day, becausethen you are more profitable and
more marketable.
They are not worried.
I say they, because it could beany one of several brands.
bajillion people in that wholeprocess.
They're not worried about youthe way that you need to worry
(01:00:13):
about you.
And the people close to youshould be able to validate that
for you and encourage you toworry about you the way you need
to, period.
Whether you need another nap oryou need to take a walk or you
need to, right?
It was weird for me when I wasfirst in the van with Six or
(01:00:34):
seven people, eight maybe, in a15-passenger van for months at a
time.
You have to be patient.
And when you cannot be patient,you need to verbalize.
Take a moment.
Because I really think it's nota lot.
You're not asking a lot.
You're asking to be human.
(01:00:55):
And everybody needs to be ableto be human.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:58):
A big thank you to our musical guest, Matt
Brandeberry of From Ashes toNew.
and our mental health expert,Eva Marie, a.k.a.
Amanda Lyberg, of Eva UnderFire.
For more information on FromAshes to New, their tour, their
album, Panic, and the QuarantineChronicles EPs, visit
FromAshesToNew.com and be sureto follow them on their socials,
(01:01:20):
at From Ashes to New.
For more information on AmandaLyberg, a.k.a.
Eva Marie of Eva Under Fire,their tour, and upcoming debut
album, Love, Drugs, and Misery,visit EvaUnderFire.com.
Follow them on their socials atEvaUnderFire and stay tuned for
a clip of their single,Unstoppable.
(01:01:41):
So until next time, be brave,ask for help, and be persistent
in finding the mental healththat
SPEAKER_00 (01:01:56):
you need.
UNKNOWN (01:01:57):
Unstoppable
SPEAKER_03 (01:02:08):
Check Your Head Podcast.com.
(01:02:35):
Check Your Head podcast issponsored by a 501c3 nonprofit
with all donations being taxdeductible.
Thank you for your support andthank you for listening.
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