March 4, 2022 • 56 mins
Mari Fong interviews contemporary classical pianist RIOPY and Dr. Benjamin Miller, PsyD and President of Well Being Trust. Pianist and composer Jean-Philippe Rio-Py (RIOPY), who wrote the score for award-winning films The Shape of Water and The Danish Girl, grew up in a cult where he was physically and emotionally abused until his escape. As a child, he survived by escaping to the piano, where he could quiet his mind from his OCD, anxiety and depression. RIOPY shares his unique solutions for recovery along with a clip of "Sweet Awakening," an instrumental off his latest album, Bliss.
Next, mental health expert, President of Well Being Trust, and musician Dr. Benjamin Miller talks about the power of music and the power of meditation in healing both our minds and our souls. Well Being Trust is a philanthropy dedicated to advancing the mental, social and spiritual health of the nation at wellbeingtrust.org.
“Be brave, ask for help, and be persistent in finding the mental help that you need.” For free and affordable solutions for mental health and addiction recovery, visit: http://checkyourheadpodcast.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, the podcast
where notable musicians andexperts share their stories and
solutions for mental health andwellness.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist and life coach
for musicians, and today I'mexcited to present our featured
guests.
(00:20):
Today we have a French-Englishpianist and composer who has
established a reputationworldwide with his beautiful
instrumentals.
his music generating over 200million streams globally.
Our musical guest today isRyopi, a talented man with an
interesting past.
Ryopi grew up in a cult that wasboth physically and emotionally
(00:42):
abusive until his escape at theage of 18.
As a child, the one thing thathelped him survive was to play
his piano, a place where hecould escape, meditate, and
quiet his mind from the OCD,anxiety, and depression he
suffered from.
Ryopi will share his uniquesolutions for recovery, along
(01:03):
with a clip of a new songentitled Sweet Awakening off his
latest album Bliss.
Next, our featured mental healthexpert is a musician, but also a
doctor of clinical psychology, aspeaker, and president of
Wellbeing Trust, a philanthropydedicated to advancing the
mental, social, and spiritualhealth of the nation.
(01:24):
Dr.
Benjamin Miller will talk aboutthe power of music and the power
of meditation in healing bothour minds and our souls.
But first, let's hearcontemporary classical pianist
Riopi share his story.
You've gone through hardship,right?
You've gone through somehardship beyond your mood
disorders.
SPEAKER_01 (01:45):
Yeah, I mean, I have no idea.
Absolutely.
I think being a musician, youknow, being basically a
creative, you feel, you know,you a lot and you're very
emotional and the world we arein doesn't really support all
these emotions and once youstart going into the kind of
business of things that's whereit really hits you because we're
(02:08):
not made for that you knowmusicians are made to create and
make music and something thatcomes out of us you know
something beautiful it's like aquest you know I feel a bit like
Indiana Jones of music you knowI'm looking for this perfect
frequency and It's funny becausethe way I'm looking for it is
actually by putting myself intoa state.
(02:30):
And I go into trance every timeI make music, every time I'm
basically on the piano.
My brain changes.
Everything changes.
I mean, it saved my life, to behonest with you.
It really, literally saved mylife.
So I was sent this questionnaireabout mood disorders, which one
(02:50):
I had.
And I was...
reading through it.
I was like, oh my God, I havethat, that, this one, this one,
this one.
Addiction?
Yes.
Mental health?
Yes.
Depression?
Yes.
Suicidal?
Yes.
Pretty much everything.
And I laugh about it todaybecause I did solve my issues,
but I wasn't sure I was going tomake it because I almost died
(03:11):
several times and it wasincredibly tough.
It was extremely difficult.
And especially when you arehypersensitive because you feel
everything.
So At some point, you do notunderstand what these emotions
are.
Are they from the people youmeet and you feel them?
Are they from yourself?
So it's kind of everythingtogether.
(03:31):
And it was killing me, you know,seeing poverty was killing me.
I couldn't read the news becauseotherwise I was getting
depressed.
So it's a lot of thingstogether.
It's tough.
SPEAKER_02 (03:45):
Yeah, you know, I've had musicians on the podcast
express similar things, and I'vecome to realize that a lot of
musicians are empaths, that theycan actually feel the feeling of
other emotions from people, theenergy.
You know, even for me, likewatching a movie that is violent
or there's torture, even thoughI know that that is fake, I
(04:08):
could still feel the pain.
I could still feel in my heart,I could feel the pain, and so I
can't watch it.
So it's almost like adouble-edged sword.
We could be very expressive andhappy, but on the other end, if
something really hurts us, itcould really hurt us.
And that could be the part thatwe have to protect and really be
(04:30):
conscious of.
SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
It's funny you mentioned that because I mean, I
never watch TV.
And once in a while, you know,to make my wife happy, I'm going
to watch a movie.
But never, ever, I will watch ahorror movie.
Because as you said, we thinkit's fake, but it's not.
Because the emotions are real.
I mean, not a lot of peoplereally talk about it, but I
think it's essential to the coreof our being.
(04:54):
When you watch anything aroundyou, Everything will affect you.
And as you say, if you watchsomeone killing someone, that's
going to affect you.
That's why people can cry.
People can be depressed watchinga movie.
And I will go further.
I mean, look at pornography.
I think this should beforbidden.
This should be illegal.
Why?
Because it kills people.
You've got this kind of fakerelease of dopamine and we have
(05:17):
it from movies.
But at the end of the day, ouremotions are real.
So if someone is crying, this isreal.
and that's why I'm veryconscious of you know I've got
two babies and I'm very verycareful of the things they watch
because I think it can create atrauma right because we are
(05:38):
human beings I mean we feeleverything and I think most
people are not actuallyconscious that it does affect
them.
And that's why I never watchmovies at night because at
night, what I do personally, Ido my breathing and my
meditation and then maybe read abook, but never a movie because
otherwise it will affect myconsciousness.
(06:00):
It will affect my dream statebecause I love lucid dreaming.
And it makes me happy becauseotherwise, if you watch
something very dark, then youend up having these panic
attacks, you know, especiallymore musicians because it's
empathy.
And I have so much empathy thatI feel, you know, the pain of
people.
And I paid very close attentionto what I was in order to
(06:23):
understand how to heal.
And sometimes, you know, justwatching someone, you can feel
who they are.
Yes, you
SPEAKER_02 (06:31):
can.
Very subtle things too that yousee.
of expressions on their face,their eyes, the mouth, you know,
everything can show you theiremotions if they're not able to
verbalize.
Some musicians have a hard timeverbalizing versus let's say
writing music.
Music is a language that theyfeel more comfortable expressing
(06:52):
that emotion.
Like yourself with yourinstrumentals, you don't have to
say a word, there are no lyrics,but you could feel exactly, you
know, that emotion that you'reputting through your fingertips
onto the piano, into the music.
Because I could feel how, youknow, the music just goes out
beyond just the listener, whichis really something very unique.
(07:14):
But I want to start from thebeginning so people know a
little about your backstorybecause you did grow up.
Your mother was in a cult.
So you grew up in thisatmosphere.
What were the first memoriesthat you had of living in this
cult?
SPEAKER_01 (07:30):
You know, sometimes what trauma does is It puts all
these thoughts into a little boxin your mind and then you move
on.
Otherwise, you couldn't survive.
And I have kind of my memorywiped from my childhood.
I remember only a very few.
Otherwise, most of it, I don'teven remember.
I only remember the very dark ormaybe the darkest ones.
(07:53):
But living in a cult, the waythis was operating was, you
know, of course, very, very bad.
And it made me question, youknow, the existence of of God,
which I think for me wasactually a very good thing.
But I only realized that muchlater in life because there was
this guru and I couldn't doanything.
I mean, they would beat me up inthe name of God because I had
(08:15):
some ego in me, you know, when Iwas nine years old, having 40
people around just, you know,beating me up for no reason.
And my mother was very lost atthat time.
So it's a horrible way to growup.
because I didn't have any codesof life, any boundaries,
nothing.
I just didn't know.
But what I felt was if God issupposed to be love and
(08:38):
acceptance and compassionate,then there is something really,
really fishy.
It was a very horrible time.
I was not allowed to watchtelevision, to be with friends.
I had to be conscious of everymovement I was doing.
The guru would come and rip meapart, taking me from the hair.
They shaved my head.
They shaved All my family's hadto break, you know, the ego.
(09:00):
It was absolutely insane.
But we had a very old piano thatI basically fell in love with.
That's how I started.
I never had any lessons becausethey didn't want me to go in the
outside world.
So I would just go and play thepiano.
It was talking to me.
That's how I started.
And I developed very early anOCD.
(09:21):
You know, I was counting and Istill am today.
everything all the time and theonly time I was not counting was
when I was playing because I wasjust going into trance and
that's how piano literally savedmy life you know that's the only
thing I could do that was justheal me it was feeling so good
just just one note and two notesand so when I was playing I
(09:42):
started having all these imagesand that's why I never really
wanted to put words on it theway I do it because you know I
was free of imagining anything iwanted and letting all this
creativity flow this way and andthen they took it away from me
you know when i was 14 years oldbecause it was the evil or
(10:02):
whatever you know that they soldit because i was playing too
much
SPEAKER_02 (10:06):
oh my gosh
SPEAKER_01 (10:08):
yeah they're sick those people are sick
SPEAKER_02 (10:10):
well that must have been heartbreaking
SPEAKER_01 (10:12):
Yeah, they broke everything, all the family.
I didn't have a family anymore.
I left the day of my 18thbirthday and I didn't see my
mother and my siblings foralmost 15 years.
And that was horrible.
SPEAKER_02 (10:25):
I'm sorry that you went through that.
It's funny how you talk abouthow memories are erased from
your mind for survival.
I do believe that's true becauseyou hear about people who have
gone through very bad trauma andand just start to remember it
maybe 10 years later, long afterit starts coming to them, as the
(10:46):
brain starts to heal.
You also talked about mentalabuse during that time.
Were there certain things thatthey would tell you or make you
feel?
It already sounds like you feltunprotected.
Punishment can come at anymoment.
What were some of the thingsthat they were saying to you?
SPEAKER_01 (11:07):
Basically, being not worthy.
You're bad, you're bad, youknow, that the evil is in you.
And then, of course, as a child,you're just always trying to be
my best.
And they were like, you'rebasically nothing.
And breaking, of course, family.
So I would not be allowed tocall my mother mom, you know, to
break us, basically.
They did succeed in a waybecause even my siblings today,
(11:28):
now they're starting to getbetter.
But it took a very long time.
And I'm not the only one on thisplanet.
Everybody is suffering.
And that's why we need more loveand more compassion because the
kids are the future.
And I realized that.
I mean, it was part of my dailylife and I had to survive.
(11:48):
And sometimes survivors can behorrible people because they
think, well, screw it.
I had a bad life.
I'm going to do my way.
But I didn't.
I didn't because I...
I always had experiences as wellwhen I was very young, like when
I had an out-of-body and luciddreams, and I saw things that
(12:11):
made me really believe there wasmore.
SPEAKER_02 (12:14):
Tell me about that, because I'm really curious.
I remember once that I had alucid dream, whereas I was
conscious, but I was in a dreamstate, and I was actually able
to control what was in my dream,which of course was very
entertaining.
But how is it that the luciddreaming...
You know, was that a means ofsurvival for you mentally?
How did that come about and howdoes that help you?
(12:36):
It
SPEAKER_01 (12:38):
really helped me because, so I was like six,
seven or something, six, seven,eight.
And you know, kids, you neverwant to go to bed.
But it was so horrible that theonly times I enjoyed were to be
left alone.
So I would always try and sneakout and go to my piano and in
the evening, go to bed.
And they wouldn't understand,like, because normally you don't
(12:58):
want to go to bed.
I want to go to bed.
And what I was doing, I realizedthat, you know, when you're a
kid, you make little stories inyour mind and then, you know,
you feel asleep.
But then I realized, oh my God,like I'm making my story and
then I go there.
So every night I would basicallymake up a story, thinking about
something and going there.
(13:19):
And it was amazing.
So I loved sleeping because Iwould have all these experiences
and go to places and have this.
And then as they were pushing methen in my teenage, I lost it.
And it's funny, because thenaround 10 years ago, when I was
30 years old, then I went backinto it.
And then I started reading aboutit.
Okay, I want to understand howit works.
(13:40):
So I read, you know, StephanLaberge, you know, who's, you
know, the pioneer of luciddreams.
And it's the most amazing thingthat exists, because you're
really fully conscious, butfully active.
Because in our dreams, most ofthe time, we are spectators, you
know, of the dream, even thoughit might be vivid, it's a
difference between vivid andlucid.
Lucid You can make thingshappen.
(14:01):
And it's absolutely insanebecause especially in this
pandemic, you know, I wouldn'ttravel, no tour.
I would go in the confines of myown mind.
And it's amazing, you know,because if you want to go to the
beach, you just, you know, focuson the beach.
And with your intent, it reallyhappens.
I developed little tools, youknow, little aids.
(14:24):
So like Bionorbid, I make my ownBionorbid.
That really helps.
And also my diet.
I'm just very healthy.
I don't drink.
I don't smoke.
And I kind of fast a lot in theevening.
And it helps me.
As I was challenged in my earlylife, I have to admit that when
I went into the normal life, itdidn't really interest me.
(14:45):
You know what I mean?
Because you
SPEAKER_02 (14:46):
were kind of in this fantasy life of the lucid
dreaming.
Is that it?
Because lucid dreaming, itsounds like you really can do
anything you want and be ascreative as you want and almost
live in a fantasy world.
I mean, what is the process foryou to get into a lucid dream?
SPEAKER_01 (15:02):
It's a very good question.
The intent is everything.
But science is starting as wellto come around and say, well, we
might live in a virtual realitybecause when we put our intent,
we put our energy, right?
I mean, we are energy, right?
This is the reality.
It's funny because there is onlyone energy people talk about,
which is the sexual energy.
(15:22):
But we are life energy.
So if we go back to luciddreaming, the most important is
to have an intent.
That's for sure.
And to be able to focus.
And that's where meditationreally helps through the day.
If you meditate, I meditatetwice a day.
It does help for your brain tobe focused.
So basically going to bed everynight and really focus on your
(15:46):
intent to do something.
And the second thing is, in themornings, to write a little
journal of your dreams.
And if you don't remember them,that's okay.
When you remember, you write itdown and you try and do that
every day.
And I assure you, in 30 days,you'll have lucid dreams.
It really is as simple.
But for most people, it isdifficult because we do not have
(16:10):
any discipline.
It's the discipline of doing it.
SPEAKER_02 (16:14):
The purpose of writing it in a journal, what is
the purpose of putting it onpaper?
SPEAKER_01 (16:19):
It's to talk to our subconscious.
Because the whole point istrying to make the subconscious
conscious.
And we can see that we are in adifferent state of consciousness
when we dream.
But we are also in a differentstate of consciousness when we
watch a movie and we startcrying or we are scared.
(16:40):
So, Our consciousness evolvesand changes all the time.
So do the dreams, you know, helpor say something?
For sure.
Absolutely.
But that's why I think it'simportant to have a very good
quality of our consciousness.
And this is part of our dailylife.
So you probably heard of thesepeople like Bruce Lipton or Jody
(17:03):
Spencer or Eckhart Tolle aswell, the power of now.
All these people are saying thesame thing.
I mean, You are what you feel.
You feel what you are.
You are what you eat.
And it's so true, right?
For me, I had depression mywhole life.
I tried to kill myself manytimes when I was younger.
I tried drugs to heal myself.
I smoked shitloads of weed for acouple of years.
(17:26):
When I was playing myperformances, once I even drank
the whole bottle of whiskey.
And I was deaf on stage.
I was looking at my hands and Iknew what I was doing, but I was
totally deaf.
I ended up at emergencies withthe police taking me I thought I
was going to go to jail I meanbecause I was in pain I was in
such pain and I thought I needto heal what is going to heal me
(17:48):
okay alcohol 40s you know girlsyou know and he was killing me
and at some point I was likeokay stop and I stopped
everything and that day Ithought I was going to die and
it's funny because Actually,yoga helped me, but not yoga
like the doctrine, but becauseit was exercise.
My wife, at the time, she wasnot my wife and she was going to
leave me, which I wanted her toleave me because when you're
(18:10):
hurt, I didn't want to hurtanyone else.
And I was hurting myself.
And that's what I did.
I did that because I had traumabecause it was so tough.
SPEAKER_02 (18:20):
Let me ask you this, though, because you have so much
of a load that you were carryingwith trauma, you know, so many
experiences.
that I can't even imagine.
How were you able to finallyrelease that and let it go so
that you could heal that part ofyour memories, really?
SPEAKER_01 (18:38):
So as I grew up in a sect where they were talking
about God all the time and theguru, you know, she would
destroy everything.
She destroyed my family.
My mother almost died.
My stepfather was hitting me.
It was just so painful thatcourse he made me doubt I mean
(18:59):
if God exists you know then Goddoesn't exist but my music
always gave me a sense ofpurpose I always knew since I
was three years old this is whatI'm doing and I'm here for that
like also I always knew I wouldhave two kids a boy and a girl
and I have two kids so I thinkthere is much more you know to
(19:20):
life for sure but then all thispain was literally killing me
and After tryingantidepressants, everything, I
tried everything to heal me.
Nothing worked.
And I started making a living.
I was like, oh, finally, becauseof course we don't talk about
this.
And for musicians, we wouldnever talk about it.
(19:40):
But we are human beings.
You have to survive.
And I was on the street.
I mean, 18 years old, I waslike, oh, God, what do I do now?
And believe it or not, but beinga white boy playing the piano
and being called Jean-Philippeis not a big help at all.
I'm not playing a victim here,but I'm saying no one gives a
(20:01):
shit.
And that's fair enough.
So I was like, okay, I'm goingto survive.
So I had to work in lots of verydifficult, like McDonald's.
Actually, McDonald's didn't wantme.
That was my first interview.
They wouldn't even take me.
So I felt a bit like a loser.
So, you know, working in pianobars or hotels, just trying to
play the piano because that'swhat I knew how to do.
(20:24):
And it was funny how you hadpeople the people who I call
very human.
So if they heard beautifulmusic, they would come.
And the other people who werejust, oh, he's just a pianist.
We don't give a shit becausehe's not famous or whatever.
It was very interesting to seehow people responded.
But music saved my life becausethat's the only thing that kept
(20:46):
me alive.
You know what I mean?
All this pain was going on thepiano.
And even drunk, I was just goingto the piano.
And then I realized one day, Iwas literally going to die.
I lost, you know, so manypounds.
I wouldn't wake up at somepoint.
It was really, really bad.
So she pushed me to go, my wifeto go to do some hot yoga.
(21:07):
And I stopped in one day.
I mean, long story short, yeah,I stopped everything.
And I was like, okay, now I'mgoing to understand how it
works.
I'm going to read books aboutthe brain.
How does the brain work?
And the first book I read was abook by Norman Deutsch.
which is called the brain thatchanges itself.
And I was like, oh, this isamazing.
(21:28):
The guy's a scientist, a properscientist, and he explained,
look, this is how it works.
And then I discovered that wehad brainwaves.
So I bought anelectroencephalograph.
Yeah, I bought one, you know.
I was like, okay, I'm going tomeasure my brainwave.
And I could see the differencewhen I was playing my music and
when I was very depressed.
I was like, okay, how can we gofurther?
(21:49):
And then as I was doing a lot ofyoga, I was not drinking,
nothing.
I was just very healthy, youknow, vegetarian.
And I didn't want to be trendy.
I was just like, I need to takeall the toxins of my body of 28
years of my life.
And I did.
And then I had an out-of-bodyexperience.
And when I had this out-of-bodyexperience, I was like...
SPEAKER_02 (22:12):
When you had an out-of-body experience, what
kind of precipitated that?
SPEAKER_01 (22:18):
I think it was...
Because I got rid of fear.
You know, the body has a memory,right?
I mean, this is now scientific.
It has a memory.
I had the memory of depressionand probably the memory of my
mother as well, who had a shittylife because, you know, her
mother abandoned her when shewas two years old.
So having lost so many kilos andbasically meditating, fasting,
(22:43):
doing a lot of yoga, you know,getting rid of everything
because I got rid of fear, Ijust got out of my body.
So then I started reading booksabout out-of-bodies, and I went
to Robert Monroe.
Robert Monroe was a CNBC guy, aproducer.
I think he was in the 70s.
(23:03):
And he wrote three books,Journeys Out of the Body and
Adventures Out of the Body.
I mean, it's really amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (23:11):
I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'm really
curious.
What happened during yourout-of-body experience?
What did you experience duringthat time?
I
SPEAKER_01 (23:20):
was literally...
Outside of my body, looking atmy body, there was a huge
comfort because when I had thisexperience, I remembered that I
had one when I was very young,one in particular.
And I remembered how I got it.
(23:40):
And that experience, and you'regoing to laugh, but I was a kid,
so I didn't know.
One day, I tried to pass a ballfrom my left hand to my right
hand.
And I was like, okay, I have tomeditate.
So I did meditate.
And when you meditate, yourbrainwaves slow down.
And I didn't, of course, youknow, for my left or right, but
(24:00):
I went outside of my body.
And it was my first experienceconsciously.
I was, oh my God, that's like,whoa, whoa, whoa.
I was just pulled out of it.
So I started reading a lot ofbooks, you know, William
Bullman, Robert Monroe, then mybig toe from Thomas Campbell to
get the science.
So I had to understand, okay,what is the science behind it?
What is the science of dreams?
(24:22):
What is the science ofmeditation?
How can I heal?
And I knew when I had anout-of-body, I felt amazing.
When I had a lucid dream, youknow, those lucid dreams, the
effect of a lucid dream couldlast for weeks, you know?
You mean just the high of it?
Like the joy of it?
(24:43):
The joy of being like, ah, Ifeel good.
I have no pain.
And that is what I've alwaysbeen looking for.
You probably know about mymusic.
Like you feel this hope, youknow, this peace.
Oh, I feel good.
And before this, we need tounderstand first that we have
feelings because life is so fastthat we don't understand, oh,
(25:05):
I'm not doing well.
Why?
What is happening?
So you see, by reading, readingthe neuroscience and then making
links, you know, then I foundBruce Lipton about the biology
of belief.
And I was, oh my God, we canchange with our intent.
We can change ourselves.
So it doesn't happen overnight.
It's going to take, you know, afew weeks.
It doesn't take years, to behonest, but it's going to take a
(25:28):
few weeks.
SPEAKER_02 (25:29):
You know, you mentioned depression, I'm sure
anxiety, but also OCD, which isobsessive compulsive disorder.
And that could be verycrippling.
I was wondering, how did thatplay a part in your life?
When was it very bad?
It
SPEAKER_01 (25:43):
would be very bad, especially when you're just
counting, counting, counting,and then you become conscious
that you're counting and youcannot stop.
And then doing drugs, and I docount alcohol as a drug, it
would be worse.
And then I would be almost in ajail of my own mind.
And I couldn't live, you know, Icouldn't survive.
(26:04):
It was too much, you know, andthat's why I wanted to stop the
game.
And then, you know, ending up inemergencies.
And that's why I was like, okay,now I have to take charge.
You know, we're not victims.
We can do it.
I can do it.
Some people did it before.
You know, I can do it.
I'm strong.
And I wanted to challenge myselfbecause I tried antidepressants.
I tried everything.
And I had so many therapists,psychotherapists, psychiatrists.
(26:28):
I mean, nothing worked.
I mean, nothing but findingmeditation and changing my life,
being in charge of my own life,my own destiny.
SPEAKER_02 (26:37):
Well, you mentioned your wife, and it sounds like
your wife has experienced whenyou were at a very low point
with your drugs and alcohol, andit's come to the point now where
you've lead a much healthierlife.
How was she a catalyst or apartner during that time?
SPEAKER_01 (26:57):
My wife is, you know, She's a very special human
being.
And she saw that I was basicallydying.
I mean, I literally was dyingbecause I was too low.
And so she helped me.
And at the same time, somethingthat happened that was very big
for me was my little sister, whowas 10 years younger than me,
(27:20):
that I didn't see since she wasnine years old.
She found me on Twitter.
She sent me a message.
that she wanted to come and seeme in London.
And that was very weird becausewhen she came, I felt like this
ball of light, like really aball of light.
And I hated myself, you know,and I was, oh my God.
(27:41):
That and my wife really savedme.
I thought doing my music,because that's the only place
where I was, you know, feelingvery good, was when I was
playing music.
But when I was not playingmusic, I was always depressed,
right, my whole life.
And I thought, okay, that'sbecause I don't make a living.
But the day I started making aliving and I started to have a
(28:01):
bit of success, you know, makingbig adverts and concerts and
kind of entering the showbizworld, I realized it didn't
change anything.
I realized, okay, now I've gotmy grand piano.
I've got, you know, my big flat.
And I was like, I still have mydepression.
I'm still miserable.
And it was getting worse andworse and worse.
(28:22):
I think it's important to statebecause Sometimes we think,
okay, when I have this, I'mhappy.
When I have a car, when I have ahouse, when I have...
And actually, that's veryuntrue.
It never ends because we'realways looking for something.
Always, always, always.
And I was very poor.
I was miserable.
Then I got a bit of money.
I was miserable.
(28:42):
And so the kind of end game forme was when my wife and my
sister, you know, it was thetipping point.
SPEAKER_02 (28:51):
Well, I'm glad you had those people that were
supportive of you and that lovedyou and cared about you.
I know that sometimes even whenwe're surrounded by people that
love us, if we've gone throughsome tough times like you have,
especially with the kind ofmental programming that you must
(29:11):
have had, you mentionedsomething about hating yourself
or not liking yourself at thispoint of life.
How did you find that self-love?
Because that really is thefoundation of opening up your
world.
SPEAKER_01 (29:27):
Well, through science and meditation.
Because understanding that wehave brainwaves, that we can
modulate them.
And I started again meditating.
And I didn't do actuallytranscendental.
I did the mindfulnessmeditation.
I think the The two ways Ibelieve are the easiest to
meditate is eithertranscendental, so you have a
(29:48):
mantra, and just repeat it.
That's it.
Now, for me, I was consciouslylistening, becoming conscious of
my breath, my breathing.
And I started doing it literallyevery single day.
And it changed a lot of things.
Because when you startmeditating, I would say
meditation is the door, youknow?
Because behind the door, youcan...
(30:11):
explore consciousness in manydifferent ways.
And that's very true, right?
Our intuition increases, youknow, our recollection, our
memory.
And science says that meditationis an amazing tool.
Lower inflammation increases thegray matter in the brain.
It helps cognitive, you know, somany, many things purely from a
(30:31):
scientific point of view.
And that's what I was interestedin because of the cult.
I was like, I don't wantspiritual bullshit.
I'm not interested in thatbecause you guys showed me that
this was not the way.
So through science, throughmeditation, I had spiritual
experience.
Maybe there is something.
(30:52):
And then I started findingmyself again.
And I was like, wow, the worldis beautiful.
I realized that the morechallenges we have and that we
can go through, the morerewarding it is.
For me, the ultimate meditationis to be on a school bus full of
kids and being able to focusbecause meditation is ultimately
(31:16):
focus.
And it helps for out-of-bodies.
It helps for lucid dreams.
But it also helps for my lifetoday with my kids.
It helps me with the way I doeverything because my mind is
not going to 60,000 or 70,000thoughts a day anymore.
I am mindful.
I realized that by doing it along time, I was like, okay, how
(31:37):
can I increase it?
So then I started making my ownbinaural beats, because you know
binaural beats, they can do insix months what Tibetan monks
said would take 10 years toachieve, but you need the right
binaural beats, but it's veryefficient.
SPEAKER_02 (31:51):
Can you tell me what that is?
SPEAKER_01 (31:53):
Binaural beats.
Okay, basically, binaural beatsmeans that we can help you
getting into this state ofconsciousness.
through our brain waves.
So right now, you and I, we'retalking, we are in beta waves.
If we have too much, and thisis, I think, very important to
know, if we have too much ofthese beta waves, then anxiety,
(32:17):
depression, you know, and mentalhealth issues.
And we can see them in brainscans.
And that's very interestingbecause alpha is the state with
a bit slower wave than the beta.
Alpha, it's when you're relaxed.
And then beta waves, And this isjust prior to sleep, by the way.
It's also when you are in theshower and you're like, oh my
(32:38):
God, time doesn't exist.
For me, that's one of the mostimportant ones because they are
also what are used in hypnosis.
So if you go into hypnosis, thenthe person slowly will start
being in theta waves where youare open to anything coming, you
see?
(32:58):
So it's fascinating.
And delta is When you sleep, butunconsciously.
So what do those binaural beats?
They're going to put you into astate that you want by creating
a pure tone.
And we basically send the signalto the corpus callosum, which is
responsible for our brain waves.
(33:20):
And after 10, 15, 20 minutes,your brain waves will go into
the given ones by the binauralbeats.
SPEAKER_02 (33:28):
I do understand what you're talking about as far as
getting to a state where yourbrain is relaxed.
I think that's when you canreceive messages when it's
relaxed.
And then when it's clear, clearfear or any kind of emotion that
will get in the way.
And that way we can receivemessages that maybe we need to
(33:48):
hear or maybe tap into theenergy that's out there that can
answer the questions that wemight be having or issues that
we're having.
Am I on the right track?
SPEAKER_01 (33:58):
Absolutely.
But don't get me wrong.
We do it with Binaural Beats.
But for example, I made a trackcalled Meditation 22.
It does the same thing becausemusic can help you get into the
stage.
But then we need to just let go,right?
Let go by focusing.
I mean, I do it on the breath,which is the meditation.
And then after a few minutes,when you are experienced, and
(34:19):
when I say experienced, it'sjust a few weeks of doing it a
bit every day.
We have to understand that,okay, you understand the
processes, but then the process,needs to be applied you know
every day it's a practice rightit's a muscle it's the same way
and it is very true that onceyou know how to meditate in a
few weeks in a few months thenyes absolutely your subconscious
(34:41):
you know will open basically andit's uncanny it's amazing
because basically you're just inthis state and then you're going
to hear things Even Einstein, Ithink it was the relativity
theory that he found by watchinga candlelight.
He was meditating on acandlelight, right?
So of course it works becauseour subconscious is extremely
(35:01):
powerful.
And it was also Freud who saidthe tip of the iceberg is the
conscious.
And underneath, we've got thebigger part, the iceberg.
And this is the unconscious.
SPEAKER_02 (35:14):
Yeah, I could see how that sense of freedom that
comes with meditation can alsobe that time where, Your brain
can heal and also just let go ofthe heaviness of the past.
So I am going to practice that.
And your music is so wonderfulfor that.
You know, you mentionedMeditation 22, but I know with
(35:36):
each song that I've listened to,there's a different emotion.
There's a different feeling thatI get from each one.
Very beautiful, you know,creates this atmosphere.
But Thank you so much forsharing all of these wonderful
solutions that we're going toneed to practice with your
music.
Is there anything else that youwould like to say about your
(35:57):
music or about mental health?
SPEAKER_01 (36:00):
I mean, I think just, you know, I think life is
beautiful.
And if we do it ourselves, ThenI think that's how we change the
world.
I mean, meditation is anextremely powerful tool and
science is really catching upnow.
Sometimes with spirituality, itcan be a bit scary because you
can go into weird stuff, whichI'm really not interested in.
But accessing spiritualitythrough science is great because
(36:25):
we have tools and you just needto apply them.
You try for, let's say, threemonths and then if it doesn't
work, you try another tool.
But doing that, it really,really worked for me.
because nothing else worked.
Being mindful changed my entirelife.
And now I hope I'm a good dad.
I can take care of my kids.
(36:46):
I can have time for myselfbecause I accept myself now.
You see what I mean?
I start to love myself, not asan ego thing, but I was like,
I'm okay.
I have my flaws, but I'm tryingto be a better person.
I'm trying to be more loving,more caring.
And just doing that, help me,and then I think he helps other
people.
So if we all do that, I think wechange the world in two seconds.
SPEAKER_02 (37:09):
I do believe that being mindful, I mean, I know it
took me a while to get to thatpoint, but it's really just
being conscious about ourthoughts, about our actions,
about what we eat, about how wetreat other people, just being
thoughtful as we go through ourlife.
And also appreciating, beinggrateful for this conversation
(37:30):
and the things that I've learnedfrom you and your story, which
is a story of survival.
Thank you so much for your time.
SPEAKER_01 (37:38):
Thank you, Mary.
Thank you so much.
And thank you for the kindness.
I can feel we're on the samewavelength.
So we need more, right?
SPEAKER_02 (37:45):
Next up, we have a doctor of clinical psychology, a
nationally recognized mentalhealth expert, who's also a
musician and a guitarist.
Our expert today is Dr.
Benjamin Miller, who is also thepresident of Wellbeing Trust, a
philanthropy focused on mentalhealth and addiction recovery
nationwide.
(38:07):
Wellbeing Trust has committed$30million across 65 programs to
improve mental health among ourstates and local communities.
Now let's hear Dr.
Benjamin Miller share why musiccan have such a profound effect
on our moods.
SPEAKER_00 (38:23):
I would say if anybody wanted to know the true
origin story of me, it has tobegin with the song.
I grew up in music.
I remember my dad sitting in thehallway playing his old acoustic
nylon string guitar, justputting us to sleep with songs
that were probably highlyinappropriate for kids our age.
I got my first$99 electricguitar, which I felt changed my
(38:46):
life because it gave me anoutlet.
When you're a teenager and youhave this angst, You don't know
what you're going to do when yougrow up.
You're surrounded by change.
You yourself are going throughchange.
It's nice to have a constant andmusic became that.
It became the thing I went to.
Some kids would come home andplay video games all day.
I would come home and play myguitar all day.
(39:07):
It just was that natural outlet.
And I have maintained that tothis day.
I mean, it's still naturallypart of my life.
I don't play music as much onthe road, but it's become a part
of me.
I
SPEAKER_02 (39:19):
know and you know that music makes us feel good.
whether it's a sad song or ifit's upbeat dance music.
But as a clinician, there arestatistics that show that music
can be medicine.
Can you give us some examplesand what you know of that?
SPEAKER_00 (39:36):
First of all, music has this unbelievable ability to
change your brain.
And we know this because we'vegot the fMRI studies that show
how parts of your brain areactivated differently based on
different types of music.
So there's something happeninghere that's triggering in a
positive way that benefits you.
Now, we also know from others'research that it can positively
(39:57):
impact your mood.
So not just is it changing yourbrain, but it's changing your
brain for good.
So some people are more relaxed.
There's been studies that lookat how people perform better on
tests when they listen to musicbeforehand.
But just anecdotally, I mean,for the listener, think about
that song that you go to thatgives you the most joy.
(40:17):
the song that you've probablygot a memory attached to, the
song that you remember feelingthose chills to the first time
it came on the radio or thefirst time your friend put it in
your ear, that to me is thepower of music on our mental
health.
It's how it changes our affect,how it changes how we feel.
So science aside, becausethere's a lot of it, it's really
(40:38):
about the subjective experiencethat we have with that.
So I think of it in a couple ofdifferent ways.
I think about how music is agreat reminder of experiences.
That song that was playing inthe background when we were at
our first dance.
That song that was playing inthe background at a funeral.
That song that was playing inthe background at a basketball
game.
Whatever it might be, weremember those moments and those
(40:59):
songs have an extra specialmeaning to it.
The second thing is just how youfeel.
You know, sometimes if I'mtrying to get pumped up, we did
an event for members of Congresslast week.
If I'm trying to get pumped upfor Congress, then, you know, I
might put on a song that justgets me amped, you know.
It's me feeling good.
It's probably one of these songsthat I grew up with that I've
(41:20):
had kind of circulating in mybrain all day.
And I wanted to just listen toit out loud.
So music does all these thingsat once.
And if you cut it out of mylife, probably your life too,
there'd be a big hold there.
SPEAKER_02 (41:32):
Right.
It's attached to a lot of ourmemories and kind of on the flip
side too.
Sometimes a sad song can bringus to a sad place or a darker
place.
So we really have to beconscious of the music and the
things that we put into our mindand our brains.
You know, listening to Ryopi'sinterview, his music is very
calming and meditative, but hegrew up in a cult and there was
(41:56):
a lot of abuse.
What about his story kind ofstood out for you as a
psychologist?
SPEAKER_00 (42:02):
Well, I think a couple of things stand out.
One was really his supportsystem.
I think it was his wife thatencouraged him to get into yoga.
That was one of the examples.
And how that really initiatedthis path towards recovery,
where he began to do things thatwere really better for himself
and learn how to be still atpeace, you know, at one.
(42:23):
And I think that the inspirationfrom things like yoga and then
writing something as beautifullyeloquent, which I listened to
today, the Meditation 22, Thatwas just like, wow, what an
inspirational success of havinga support system that recognizes
you're not doing your best.
Go try something different andsee how that helps.
So that was number one.
You know, the other thing thatstands out, number two, is just
(42:46):
how he was describing how heuses certain beats in his
meditations and the wholescience behind that.
Like how you can become calmbased on certain cadence.
It just helps you take thatbreath.
I loved how he described beingmindful and being able to be in
those moments did change hislife.
SPEAKER_02 (43:07):
He did mention something called binaural beats.
SPEAKER_00 (43:10):
That's the word.
SPEAKER_02 (43:11):
That was the first time I had heard that.
But apparently it's soundtherapy that relaxes you.
And also he mentionedmeditation.
I was wondering if you had anythoughts on meditation or
binaural beats and how that kindof affects us emotionally.
SPEAKER_00 (43:28):
So I can't speak as much to the beach thing because
that was new to me.
But in terms of meditation, Ithink there's something very
powerful about the ability to bestill and in the moment.
In a society right now, we'reconstantly bombarded this
constant barrage of information.
You know, you can't look at yourTwitter feed without seeing the
latest, greatest thing that'shappening.
(43:49):
You know, we describe it as doomscrolling where people are
constantly just looking throughthe next thing that's, you know,
not necessarily great in life.
Like we don't ever just take amoment and be present.
You know, when you're with yourfriends at dinner, you're
probably on your phone on theside.
Meditation helps correct some ofthat.
It helps bring us to a placethat we can set all that aside
and focus in on that one thingin front of us, that one
(44:11):
thought, as simple as a breath.
And that grounding sense ofpresence, that grounding sense
of just being in the moment, isactually so good for us.
It helps us not only feel moreat ease, it helps us recover
physically, It helps us feelbetter emotionally.
And most of us don't know how todo it.
It's a wildest thing.
(44:31):
Now, ironically, musicians, theycould get into that meditative
state just by playing a song infront of thousands of people.
They can be focused on that onething and not the 12 other
things that are going on in ourlife.
And I find that to be such abeautiful sentiment that if more
of us embraced, imagine whatthat would do for our society.
(44:52):
I think about my kids.
Like my kids are raised in ageneration where Wi-Fi was
coursing through their veins,you know, as soon as they came
out into this world.
Like they don't know a world tonot have email, to not have
internet.
And so are they going to have aharder time being able to focus
and have that meditative senseof calm and direction?
(45:12):
I hope so.
I mean, I try and teach it tothem.
SPEAKER_02 (45:16):
Ryopi, he did talk about how meditation is slows
down the racing mind.
He was talking about howsometimes he would get OCD and
he would think of numbers andthey just keep going in his
head.
And we all get to a pointsometimes where we're stressed
out and we have a hundred thingson our plate.
But being in that moment, evenlistening to music, being at a
(45:37):
live show, music somehow pushesall of that aside so that you
can be in the moment.
And there is something veryjoyful about that and
restorative.
SPEAKER_00 (45:49):
Yeah, I like to think of it as like a warm
blanket.
It surrounds you.
You know, when I'm at a concert,which I love to go to, you can't
escape the wall of sound.
It's all around you.
And it's not just the feeling ofthe sound and how it really does
help you focus on that moment,but it's also the people.
You know, we're inherentlysocial creatures and we love to
be around other folks and tohave shared experiences.
(46:11):
And so when you're with thecrowd, when you're with your
friends, your family, and you'reexperiencing something together,
there's even more power to that.
So it's a warm blanket withfriends.
So I can't wait for that momentagain.
SPEAKER_02 (46:22):
To me, it's one of the greatest natural highs that
you can get because it's notjust the artist, but it's
everybody on the same pagefeeling the same kind of thing.
And it really is a wonderfulfeeling that can sometimes last
throughout the week.
SPEAKER_00 (46:38):
And let me follow that.
Let me ask you a question.
I mean, do you remember yourfirst concert that you ever went
to?
SPEAKER_02 (46:43):
I do.
Oh.
Oh my gosh.
I was in elementary school.
I went to see Minnie Ripertonand the Spinners.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
She had a voice that, you know,she had these high, high octaves
and she could hit the low pointstoo.
She had an incredible range.
So something I still rememberand still cherish.
SPEAKER_00 (47:04):
And you probably remember who you were with.
You remember you just describedthe song I mean, those things
are so meaningful to us.
And music is that thing thatbrought us together.
I'll never forget.
I went with my grandmother,because that's what I did back
in the day, to see B.B.
King and Bobby Blue Bland.
I think I was like 13.
(47:25):
How uncool to go to a show withyour grandmother.
But that's what I did.
And I remember that so well tothis day.
And sometimes even putting onhis music, it takes me back to
those very happy times when shewas with us and And I could have
those moments of just being kindof in that presence of not only
great music, that feeling ofthat natural high, as you
(47:46):
described, but also surroundedby loved ones.
SPEAKER_02 (47:49):
And I think there's also a great appreciation for
the people that encourage yourmusic or maybe that give you
that first guitar or take you tothat first show.
There's just something specialabout it.
It creates a really nice bondand a great memory between, you
know, you and the other person.
You know, oftentimes it's afamily member or friends.
But you know, one thing I'mreally impressed about with you
(48:10):
is that you are the president ofWellbeing Trust.
And I wanted to know some thingsthat your philanthropy is doing
to improve the accessibility ofmental health for all.
SPEAKER_00 (48:22):
Well, thank you for asking that.
So one of the fundamentalproblems that we try and solve
as a foundation is that we thinkfolks have to work way too hard
to get help.
I don't care if you're the mostfamous musician all the way down
to a person that has nothing.
it is too hard to find peoplethat can help you.
So we call it fragmentation.
And it's a problem that's beenso pervasive over the years that
(48:44):
people just stop trying.
They stop trying to find peoplethat can help them.
So what we do is we look forways that we can solve that
problem.
So we think about it as this.
We need to bring mental healthto where people are.
From the concert venues to thecoffee shops to Capitol Hill,
there's an opportunity for us tobetter integrate mental health
into places that people actuallyshow up.
There's also an opportunity forus, each of us, to learn how to
(49:07):
show up for each other, toembrace basic skills, to know
how to listen, to empathize, tointervene when appropriate with
friends and loved ones that areexperiencing mental health or
substance misuse issues.
We've created a society thatstays away from that.
We don't want to talk about it.
We pretend like it's not a realthing.
And so we say, well, I don't dothat.
Maybe you should talk to aprofessional.
(49:29):
And I think that it's anopportunity, and this is what we
focus on as an organization, toteach people those skills so
that it is not a foreignconcept.
That if you're in a band andyour lead guitarist is
describing how they're reallyhaving a hard time with
something, that instead of justsaying that sounds tough, you
say that sounds tough and I'dlike to help you with it.
Being there is huge.
SPEAKER_02 (49:51):
Absolutely.
Being there, even sometimes justsitting with somebody And, you
know, asking a simple questionlike, how can I help?
You know, sometimes we may notunderstand about depression or
anxiety, but we don'tnecessarily have to live it in
order to be compassionate.
You know, I took a course calledMental Health First Aid.
And it basically is talkingabout what you're talking about,
(50:13):
which is educating people,giving them some general
information about how to dealwith mental health issues and
how you can help and support.
What do you think about that?
Because everybody knows aboutCPR training.
Yeah.
But not too many people knowabout mental health first aid.
SPEAKER_00 (50:29):
It's a great program and we've supported it in the
past.
It really teaches you how torecognize what's going on in
someone's life, to be empathic,to listen, to reflect back to
them on what's going on.
You know, where we think it's animportant value is that it gives
us a baseline.
for understanding how toapproach mental health.
Where I think it can do more, wehave to be able to go beyond
(50:50):
just being there for someone andlistening and recognizing the
signs and symptoms.
We actually need to be able tohelp, to intervene, to provide
an additional layer of support.
And that's where I think all ofus have an opportunity to do
just a bit more, to know thatnext thing to say beyond just
the empathic statement.
And I think that's where mentalhealth first aid has taught us
all so much, but to yourbeautiful point, There's so many
(51:11):
other things in life, Heimlichmaneuver, CPR, you name it,
where we know what to dophysically.
But when it comes to theemotions, the mental health part
of us, most of us just turn itoff.
We say, oh, well, that's notsomething that I'm comfortable
with.
And so that only adds to thestigma, the social layer of
discomfort that unfortunately,here we are in 2022 and our
(51:33):
society still, we still don'tlike to talk about it.
SPEAKER_02 (51:37):
Right.
I know with Wellbeing Trust, youalso focus on addiction
recovery.
What are some of the projectsthat you're working on that
involve addiction treatment andrecovery?
SPEAKER_00 (51:47):
We've been, for the last four years, been looking at
why people are dying from drugoverdose, from alcohol
consumption, from suicide.
And addiction is really builtinto that.
You know, we don't separate outmental health and addiction.
We see these things as together.
Because if you only addressaddiction without looking at
some underlying issues, thenyou're missing the whole point
of comprehensive care.
(52:08):
So we've been studying how canwe be more comprehensive, more
proactive in addressing peoplewho might be experiencing
addiction.
And there's a couple of thingsthat stand out there.
One is that there is majorinconsistencies in how we treat
addiction in this country.
And I hate to say this, but it'svery true.
If you're a person that'sexperiencing some type of
(52:29):
addiction or even a mentalhealth crisis, What you might
get varies extremely based onwhere you live, based on your
insurance, based on a variety offactors.
And we feel like there's anopportunity to change that.
We worked with the AmericanSociety of Addiction Medicine to
create a much clearer roadmap ofhow states can pursue strategies
(52:49):
that make it a lot easier forpeople to know what to expect
for addiction care.
The final thing here is that weare trying to normalize how
people are discussing mentalhealth and addiction.
SPEAKER_02 (53:00):
You've spoke a lot about well-being trust.
Is there anything else that youwould like to say about what
you're doing or about mentalhealth in general?
SPEAKER_00 (53:07):
Well, we're one of many organizations that are
working on the issue of mentalhealth.
But I think that what we'redoing that's so unique is how we
address issues of mental health.
We think it's fundamentally inour communities.
We have to go to where peoplelive.
We have to look at issues likehousing and transportation and
employment.
And make sure that folks havethe basic necessities or else it
(53:28):
doesn't matter how great carebecomes because they still don't
feel like they have the barenecessities.
Secondly, we look at things likecoverage, our health insurance.
Now, if you don't have healthinsurance, there's a very high
likelihood you're never going toseek care because it's going to
be so expensive.
We're working to change that.
And then finally, the carepiece.
Now, how do we make sure that webring mental health to the
places that people are?
(53:49):
And most recently, we've beentalking a lot with our friends
on the Hill about how do you getmore mental health into schools
where our kids are.
So we address that entirecontinuum in a unique way.
And I feel like that does makeus special.
And for the listeners that arejoining us today, I welcome them
to come to our website,wellbeingtrust.org, take a look
at what we're doing, getinvolved.
We love having partnerships withamazing people like you.
SPEAKER_02 (54:11):
A big thank you to our musical guest, Rio P, and
our mental health expert, Dr.
Benjamin Miller.
For more information on Rio P,Visit RioPMusic.com and see RioP
on tour starting March 14, 2022.
Follow RioP on his socials atRioPMusic and stay tuned to
listen to a clip of SweetAwakening from RioP's latest
(54:34):
album entitled Bliss.
For more information on Dr.
Benjamin Miller and theWellbeing Trust, visit
WellbeingTrust.org and followWellbeing Trust on their socials
at Wellbeing Trust.
So until next time, be brave,ask for help, and be persistent
in finding the mental help thatyou need.
(55:25):
Check Your Head Podcast iskindly supported and partnered
with Sweet Relief MusiciansFund, DBSA San Gabriel Valley,
Earshot Media, and Lemon TreeStudios in Los Angeles.
Visit checkyourheadpodcast.comwhere we have over 100 solutions
for mental health.
Be our friends on social mediaat Check Your Head Podcast.
(55:46):
Watch us on YouTube and supportus with a kind donation on
checkyourheadpodcast.com.
Check Your Head podcast issponsored by a 501c3 nonprofit
with all donations being taxdeductible.
Thank you for your support andthank you for listening.
Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, the podcast
where notable musicians andexperts share their stories and
solutions for mental health andwellness.
I'm your host, Mari Fong, amusic journalist and life coach
for musicians, and today I'mexcited to present our featured
guests.
(00:20):
Today we have a French-Englishpianist and composer who has
established a reputationworldwide with his beautiful
instrumentals.
his music generating over 200million streams globally.
Our musical guest today isRyopi, a talented man with an
interesting past.
Ryopi grew up in a cult that wasboth physically and emotionally
(00:42):
abusive until his escape at theage of 18.
As a child, the one thing thathelped him survive was to play
his piano, a place where hecould escape, meditate, and
quiet his mind from the OCD,anxiety, and depression he
suffered from.
Ryopi will share his uniquesolutions for recovery, along
(01:03):
with a clip of a new songentitled Sweet Awakening off his
latest album Bliss.
Next, our featured mental healthexpert is a musician, but also a
doctor of clinical psychology, aspeaker, and president of
Wellbeing Trust, a philanthropydedicated to advancing the
mental, social, and spiritualhealth of the nation.
(01:24):
Dr.
Benjamin Miller will talk aboutthe power of music and the power
of meditation in healing bothour minds and our souls.
But first, let's hearcontemporary classical pianist
Riopi share his story.
You've gone through hardship,right?
You've gone through somehardship beyond your mood
disorders.
SPEAKER_01 (01:45):
Yeah, I mean, I have no idea.
Absolutely.
I think being a musician, youknow, being basically a
creative, you feel, you know,you a lot and you're very
emotional and the world we arein doesn't really support all
these emotions and once youstart going into the kind of
business of things that's whereit really hits you because we're
(02:08):
not made for that you knowmusicians are made to create and
make music and something thatcomes out of us you know
something beautiful it's like aquest you know I feel a bit like
Indiana Jones of music you knowI'm looking for this perfect
frequency and It's funny becausethe way I'm looking for it is
actually by putting myself intoa state.
(02:30):
And I go into trance every timeI make music, every time I'm
basically on the piano.
My brain changes.
Everything changes.
I mean, it saved my life, to behonest with you.
It really, literally saved mylife.
So I was sent this questionnaireabout mood disorders, which one
(02:50):
I had.
And I was...
reading through it.
I was like, oh my God, I havethat, that, this one, this one,
this one.
Addiction?
Yes.
Mental health?
Yes.
Depression?
Yes.
Suicidal?
Yes.
Pretty much everything.
And I laugh about it todaybecause I did solve my issues,
but I wasn't sure I was going tomake it because I almost died
(03:11):
several times and it wasincredibly tough.
It was extremely difficult.
And especially when you arehypersensitive because you feel
everything.
So At some point, you do notunderstand what these emotions
are.
Are they from the people youmeet and you feel them?
Are they from yourself?
So it's kind of everythingtogether.
(03:31):
And it was killing me, you know,seeing poverty was killing me.
I couldn't read the news becauseotherwise I was getting
depressed.
So it's a lot of thingstogether.
It's tough.
SPEAKER_02 (03:45):
Yeah, you know, I've had musicians on the podcast
express similar things, and I'vecome to realize that a lot of
musicians are empaths, that theycan actually feel the feeling of
other emotions from people, theenergy.
You know, even for me, likewatching a movie that is violent
or there's torture, even thoughI know that that is fake, I
(04:08):
could still feel the pain.
I could still feel in my heart,I could feel the pain, and so I
can't watch it.
So it's almost like adouble-edged sword.
We could be very expressive andhappy, but on the other end, if
something really hurts us, itcould really hurt us.
And that could be the part thatwe have to protect and really be
(04:30):
conscious of.
SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
It's funny you mentioned that because I mean, I
never watch TV.
And once in a while, you know,to make my wife happy, I'm going
to watch a movie.
But never, ever, I will watch ahorror movie.
Because as you said, we thinkit's fake, but it's not.
Because the emotions are real.
I mean, not a lot of peoplereally talk about it, but I
think it's essential to the coreof our being.
(04:54):
When you watch anything aroundyou, Everything will affect you.
And as you say, if you watchsomeone killing someone, that's
going to affect you.
That's why people can cry.
People can be depressed watchinga movie.
And I will go further.
I mean, look at pornography.
I think this should beforbidden.
This should be illegal.
Why?
Because it kills people.
You've got this kind of fakerelease of dopamine and we have
(05:17):
it from movies.
But at the end of the day, ouremotions are real.
So if someone is crying, this isreal.
and that's why I'm veryconscious of you know I've got
two babies and I'm very verycareful of the things they watch
because I think it can create atrauma right because we are
(05:38):
human beings I mean we feeleverything and I think most
people are not actuallyconscious that it does affect
them.
And that's why I never watchmovies at night because at
night, what I do personally, Ido my breathing and my
meditation and then maybe read abook, but never a movie because
otherwise it will affect myconsciousness.
(06:00):
It will affect my dream statebecause I love lucid dreaming.
And it makes me happy becauseotherwise, if you watch
something very dark, then youend up having these panic
attacks, you know, especiallymore musicians because it's
empathy.
And I have so much empathy thatI feel, you know, the pain of
people.
And I paid very close attentionto what I was in order to
(06:23):
understand how to heal.
And sometimes, you know, justwatching someone, you can feel
who they are.
Yes, you
SPEAKER_02 (06:31):
can.
Very subtle things too that yousee.
of expressions on their face,their eyes, the mouth, you know,
everything can show you theiremotions if they're not able to
verbalize.
Some musicians have a hard timeverbalizing versus let's say
writing music.
Music is a language that theyfeel more comfortable expressing
(06:52):
that emotion.
Like yourself with yourinstrumentals, you don't have to
say a word, there are no lyrics,but you could feel exactly, you
know, that emotion that you'reputting through your fingertips
onto the piano, into the music.
Because I could feel how, youknow, the music just goes out
beyond just the listener, whichis really something very unique.
(07:14):
But I want to start from thebeginning so people know a
little about your backstorybecause you did grow up.
Your mother was in a cult.
So you grew up in thisatmosphere.
What were the first memoriesthat you had of living in this
cult?
SPEAKER_01 (07:30):
You know, sometimes what trauma does is It puts all
these thoughts into a little boxin your mind and then you move
on.
Otherwise, you couldn't survive.
And I have kind of my memorywiped from my childhood.
I remember only a very few.
Otherwise, most of it, I don'teven remember.
I only remember the very dark ormaybe the darkest ones.
(07:53):
But living in a cult, the waythis was operating was, you
know, of course, very, very bad.
And it made me question, youknow, the existence of of God,
which I think for me wasactually a very good thing.
But I only realized that muchlater in life because there was
this guru and I couldn't doanything.
I mean, they would beat me up inthe name of God because I had
(08:15):
some ego in me, you know, when Iwas nine years old, having 40
people around just, you know,beating me up for no reason.
And my mother was very lost atthat time.
So it's a horrible way to growup.
because I didn't have any codesof life, any boundaries,
nothing.
I just didn't know.
But what I felt was if God issupposed to be love and
(08:38):
acceptance and compassionate,then there is something really,
really fishy.
It was a very horrible time.
I was not allowed to watchtelevision, to be with friends.
I had to be conscious of everymovement I was doing.
The guru would come and rip meapart, taking me from the hair.
They shaved my head.
They shaved All my family's hadto break, you know, the ego.
(09:00):
It was absolutely insane.
But we had a very old piano thatI basically fell in love with.
That's how I started.
I never had any lessons becausethey didn't want me to go in the
outside world.
So I would just go and play thepiano.
It was talking to me.
That's how I started.
And I developed very early anOCD.
(09:21):
You know, I was counting and Istill am today.
everything all the time and theonly time I was not counting was
when I was playing because I wasjust going into trance and
that's how piano literally savedmy life you know that's the only
thing I could do that was justheal me it was feeling so good
just just one note and two notesand so when I was playing I
(09:42):
started having all these imagesand that's why I never really
wanted to put words on it theway I do it because you know I
was free of imagining anything iwanted and letting all this
creativity flow this way and andthen they took it away from me
you know when i was 14 years oldbecause it was the evil or
(10:02):
whatever you know that they soldit because i was playing too
much
SPEAKER_02 (10:06):
oh my gosh
SPEAKER_01 (10:08):
yeah they're sick those people are sick
SPEAKER_02 (10:10):
well that must have been heartbreaking
SPEAKER_01 (10:12):
Yeah, they broke everything, all the family.
I didn't have a family anymore.
I left the day of my 18thbirthday and I didn't see my
mother and my siblings foralmost 15 years.
And that was horrible.
SPEAKER_02 (10:25):
I'm sorry that you went through that.
It's funny how you talk abouthow memories are erased from
your mind for survival.
I do believe that's true becauseyou hear about people who have
gone through very bad trauma andand just start to remember it
maybe 10 years later, long afterit starts coming to them, as the
(10:46):
brain starts to heal.
You also talked about mentalabuse during that time.
Were there certain things thatthey would tell you or make you
feel?
It already sounds like you feltunprotected.
Punishment can come at anymoment.
What were some of the thingsthat they were saying to you?
SPEAKER_01 (11:07):
Basically, being not worthy.
You're bad, you're bad, youknow, that the evil is in you.
And then, of course, as a child,you're just always trying to be
my best.
And they were like, you'rebasically nothing.
And breaking, of course, family.
So I would not be allowed tocall my mother mom, you know, to
break us, basically.
They did succeed in a waybecause even my siblings today,
(11:28):
now they're starting to getbetter.
But it took a very long time.
And I'm not the only one on thisplanet.
Everybody is suffering.
And that's why we need more loveand more compassion because the
kids are the future.
And I realized that.
I mean, it was part of my dailylife and I had to survive.
(11:48):
And sometimes survivors can behorrible people because they
think, well, screw it.
I had a bad life.
I'm going to do my way.
But I didn't.
I didn't because I...
I always had experiences as wellwhen I was very young, like when
I had an out-of-body and luciddreams, and I saw things that
(12:11):
made me really believe there wasmore.
SPEAKER_02 (12:14):
Tell me about that, because I'm really curious.
I remember once that I had alucid dream, whereas I was
conscious, but I was in a dreamstate, and I was actually able
to control what was in my dream,which of course was very
entertaining.
But how is it that the luciddreaming...
You know, was that a means ofsurvival for you mentally?
How did that come about and howdoes that help you?
(12:36):
It
SPEAKER_01 (12:38):
really helped me because, so I was like six,
seven or something, six, seven,eight.
And you know, kids, you neverwant to go to bed.
But it was so horrible that theonly times I enjoyed were to be
left alone.
So I would always try and sneakout and go to my piano and in
the evening, go to bed.
And they wouldn't understand,like, because normally you don't
(12:58):
want to go to bed.
I want to go to bed.
And what I was doing, I realizedthat, you know, when you're a
kid, you make little stories inyour mind and then, you know,
you feel asleep.
But then I realized, oh my God,like I'm making my story and
then I go there.
So every night I would basicallymake up a story, thinking about
something and going there.
(13:19):
And it was amazing.
So I loved sleeping because Iwould have all these experiences
and go to places and have this.
And then as they were pushing methen in my teenage, I lost it.
And it's funny, because thenaround 10 years ago, when I was
30 years old, then I went backinto it.
And then I started reading aboutit.
Okay, I want to understand howit works.
(13:40):
So I read, you know, StephanLaberge, you know, who's, you
know, the pioneer of luciddreams.
And it's the most amazing thingthat exists, because you're
really fully conscious, butfully active.
Because in our dreams, most ofthe time, we are spectators, you
know, of the dream, even thoughit might be vivid, it's a
difference between vivid andlucid.
Lucid You can make thingshappen.
(14:01):
And it's absolutely insanebecause especially in this
pandemic, you know, I wouldn'ttravel, no tour.
I would go in the confines of myown mind.
And it's amazing, you know,because if you want to go to the
beach, you just, you know, focuson the beach.
And with your intent, it reallyhappens.
I developed little tools, youknow, little aids.
(14:24):
So like Bionorbid, I make my ownBionorbid.
That really helps.
And also my diet.
I'm just very healthy.
I don't drink.
I don't smoke.
And I kind of fast a lot in theevening.
And it helps me.
As I was challenged in my earlylife, I have to admit that when
I went into the normal life, itdidn't really interest me.
(14:45):
You know what I mean?
Because you
SPEAKER_02 (14:46):
were kind of in this fantasy life of the lucid
dreaming.
Is that it?
Because lucid dreaming, itsounds like you really can do
anything you want and be ascreative as you want and almost
live in a fantasy world.
I mean, what is the process foryou to get into a lucid dream?
SPEAKER_01 (15:02):
It's a very good question.
The intent is everything.
But science is starting as wellto come around and say, well, we
might live in a virtual realitybecause when we put our intent,
we put our energy, right?
I mean, we are energy, right?
This is the reality.
It's funny because there is onlyone energy people talk about,
which is the sexual energy.
(15:22):
But we are life energy.
So if we go back to luciddreaming, the most important is
to have an intent.
That's for sure.
And to be able to focus.
And that's where meditationreally helps through the day.
If you meditate, I meditatetwice a day.
It does help for your brain tobe focused.
So basically going to bed everynight and really focus on your
(15:46):
intent to do something.
And the second thing is, in themornings, to write a little
journal of your dreams.
And if you don't remember them,that's okay.
When you remember, you write itdown and you try and do that
every day.
And I assure you, in 30 days,you'll have lucid dreams.
It really is as simple.
But for most people, it isdifficult because we do not have
(16:10):
any discipline.
It's the discipline of doing it.
SPEAKER_02 (16:14):
The purpose of writing it in a journal, what is
the purpose of putting it onpaper?
SPEAKER_01 (16:19):
It's to talk to our subconscious.
Because the whole point istrying to make the subconscious
conscious.
And we can see that we are in adifferent state of consciousness
when we dream.
But we are also in a differentstate of consciousness when we
watch a movie and we startcrying or we are scared.
(16:40):
So, Our consciousness evolvesand changes all the time.
So do the dreams, you know, helpor say something?
For sure.
Absolutely.
But that's why I think it'simportant to have a very good
quality of our consciousness.
And this is part of our dailylife.
So you probably heard of thesepeople like Bruce Lipton or Jody
(17:03):
Spencer or Eckhart Tolle aswell, the power of now.
All these people are saying thesame thing.
I mean, You are what you feel.
You feel what you are.
You are what you eat.
And it's so true, right?
For me, I had depression mywhole life.
I tried to kill myself manytimes when I was younger.
I tried drugs to heal myself.
I smoked shitloads of weed for acouple of years.
(17:26):
When I was playing myperformances, once I even drank
the whole bottle of whiskey.
And I was deaf on stage.
I was looking at my hands and Iknew what I was doing, but I was
totally deaf.
I ended up at emergencies withthe police taking me I thought I
was going to go to jail I meanbecause I was in pain I was in
such pain and I thought I needto heal what is going to heal me
(17:48):
okay alcohol 40s you know girlsyou know and he was killing me
and at some point I was likeokay stop and I stopped
everything and that day Ithought I was going to die and
it's funny because Actually,yoga helped me, but not yoga
like the doctrine, but becauseit was exercise.
My wife, at the time, she wasnot my wife and she was going to
leave me, which I wanted her toleave me because when you're
(18:10):
hurt, I didn't want to hurtanyone else.
And I was hurting myself.
And that's what I did.
I did that because I had traumabecause it was so tough.
SPEAKER_02 (18:20):
Let me ask you this, though, because you have so much
of a load that you were carryingwith trauma, you know, so many
experiences.
that I can't even imagine.
How were you able to finallyrelease that and let it go so
that you could heal that part ofyour memories, really?
SPEAKER_01 (18:38):
So as I grew up in a sect where they were talking
about God all the time and theguru, you know, she would
destroy everything.
She destroyed my family.
My mother almost died.
My stepfather was hitting me.
It was just so painful thatcourse he made me doubt I mean
(18:59):
if God exists you know then Goddoesn't exist but my music
always gave me a sense ofpurpose I always knew since I
was three years old this is whatI'm doing and I'm here for that
like also I always knew I wouldhave two kids a boy and a girl
and I have two kids so I thinkthere is much more you know to
(19:20):
life for sure but then all thispain was literally killing me
and After tryingantidepressants, everything, I
tried everything to heal me.
Nothing worked.
And I started making a living.
I was like, oh, finally, becauseof course we don't talk about
this.
And for musicians, we wouldnever talk about it.
(19:40):
But we are human beings.
You have to survive.
And I was on the street.
I mean, 18 years old, I waslike, oh, God, what do I do now?
And believe it or not, but beinga white boy playing the piano
and being called Jean-Philippeis not a big help at all.
I'm not playing a victim here,but I'm saying no one gives a
(20:01):
shit.
And that's fair enough.
So I was like, okay, I'm goingto survive.
So I had to work in lots of verydifficult, like McDonald's.
Actually, McDonald's didn't wantme.
That was my first interview.
They wouldn't even take me.
So I felt a bit like a loser.
So, you know, working in pianobars or hotels, just trying to
play the piano because that'swhat I knew how to do.
(20:24):
And it was funny how you hadpeople the people who I call
very human.
So if they heard beautifulmusic, they would come.
And the other people who werejust, oh, he's just a pianist.
We don't give a shit becausehe's not famous or whatever.
It was very interesting to seehow people responded.
But music saved my life becausethat's the only thing that kept
(20:46):
me alive.
You know what I mean?
All this pain was going on thepiano.
And even drunk, I was just goingto the piano.
And then I realized one day, Iwas literally going to die.
I lost, you know, so manypounds.
I wouldn't wake up at somepoint.
It was really, really bad.
So she pushed me to go, my wifeto go to do some hot yoga.
(21:07):
And I stopped in one day.
I mean, long story short, yeah,I stopped everything.
And I was like, okay, now I'mgoing to understand how it
works.
I'm going to read books aboutthe brain.
How does the brain work?
And the first book I read was abook by Norman Deutsch.
which is called the brain thatchanges itself.
And I was like, oh, this isamazing.
(21:28):
The guy's a scientist, a properscientist, and he explained,
look, this is how it works.
And then I discovered that wehad brainwaves.
So I bought anelectroencephalograph.
Yeah, I bought one, you know.
I was like, okay, I'm going tomeasure my brainwave.
And I could see the differencewhen I was playing my music and
when I was very depressed.
I was like, okay, how can we gofurther?
(21:49):
And then as I was doing a lot ofyoga, I was not drinking,
nothing.
I was just very healthy, youknow, vegetarian.
And I didn't want to be trendy.
I was just like, I need to takeall the toxins of my body of 28
years of my life.
And I did.
And then I had an out-of-bodyexperience.
And when I had this out-of-bodyexperience, I was like...
SPEAKER_02 (22:12):
When you had an out-of-body experience, what
kind of precipitated that?
SPEAKER_01 (22:18):
I think it was...
Because I got rid of fear.
You know, the body has a memory,right?
I mean, this is now scientific.
It has a memory.
I had the memory of depressionand probably the memory of my
mother as well, who had a shittylife because, you know, her
mother abandoned her when shewas two years old.
So having lost so many kilos andbasically meditating, fasting,
(22:43):
doing a lot of yoga, you know,getting rid of everything
because I got rid of fear, Ijust got out of my body.
So then I started reading booksabout out-of-bodies, and I went
to Robert Monroe.
Robert Monroe was a CNBC guy, aproducer.
I think he was in the 70s.
(23:03):
And he wrote three books,Journeys Out of the Body and
Adventures Out of the Body.
I mean, it's really amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (23:11):
I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'm really
curious.
What happened during yourout-of-body experience?
What did you experience duringthat time?
I
SPEAKER_01 (23:20):
was literally...
Outside of my body, looking atmy body, there was a huge
comfort because when I had thisexperience, I remembered that I
had one when I was very young,one in particular.
And I remembered how I got it.
(23:40):
And that experience, and you'regoing to laugh, but I was a kid,
so I didn't know.
One day, I tried to pass a ballfrom my left hand to my right
hand.
And I was like, okay, I have tomeditate.
So I did meditate.
And when you meditate, yourbrainwaves slow down.
And I didn't, of course, youknow, for my left or right, but
(24:00):
I went outside of my body.
And it was my first experienceconsciously.
I was, oh my God, that's like,whoa, whoa, whoa.
I was just pulled out of it.
So I started reading a lot ofbooks, you know, William
Bullman, Robert Monroe, then mybig toe from Thomas Campbell to
get the science.
So I had to understand, okay,what is the science behind it?
What is the science of dreams?
(24:22):
What is the science ofmeditation?
How can I heal?
And I knew when I had anout-of-body, I felt amazing.
When I had a lucid dream, youknow, those lucid dreams, the
effect of a lucid dream couldlast for weeks, you know?
You mean just the high of it?
Like the joy of it?
(24:43):
The joy of being like, ah, Ifeel good.
I have no pain.
And that is what I've alwaysbeen looking for.
You probably know about mymusic.
Like you feel this hope, youknow, this peace.
Oh, I feel good.
And before this, we need tounderstand first that we have
feelings because life is so fastthat we don't understand, oh,
(25:05):
I'm not doing well.
Why?
What is happening?
So you see, by reading, readingthe neuroscience and then making
links, you know, then I foundBruce Lipton about the biology
of belief.
And I was, oh my God, we canchange with our intent.
We can change ourselves.
So it doesn't happen overnight.
It's going to take, you know, afew weeks.
It doesn't take years, to behonest, but it's going to take a
(25:28):
few weeks.
SPEAKER_02 (25:29):
You know, you mentioned depression, I'm sure
anxiety, but also OCD, which isobsessive compulsive disorder.
And that could be verycrippling.
I was wondering, how did thatplay a part in your life?
When was it very bad?
It
SPEAKER_01 (25:43):
would be very bad, especially when you're just
counting, counting, counting,and then you become conscious
that you're counting and youcannot stop.
And then doing drugs, and I docount alcohol as a drug, it
would be worse.
And then I would be almost in ajail of my own mind.
And I couldn't live, you know, Icouldn't survive.
(26:04):
It was too much, you know, andthat's why I wanted to stop the
game.
And then, you know, ending up inemergencies.
And that's why I was like, okay,now I have to take charge.
You know, we're not victims.
We can do it.
I can do it.
Some people did it before.
You know, I can do it.
I'm strong.
And I wanted to challenge myselfbecause I tried antidepressants.
I tried everything.
And I had so many therapists,psychotherapists, psychiatrists.
(26:28):
I mean, nothing worked.
I mean, nothing but findingmeditation and changing my life,
being in charge of my own life,my own destiny.
SPEAKER_02 (26:37):
Well, you mentioned your wife, and it sounds like
your wife has experienced whenyou were at a very low point
with your drugs and alcohol, andit's come to the point now where
you've lead a much healthierlife.
How was she a catalyst or apartner during that time?
SPEAKER_01 (26:57):
My wife is, you know, She's a very special human
being.
And she saw that I was basicallydying.
I mean, I literally was dyingbecause I was too low.
And so she helped me.
And at the same time, somethingthat happened that was very big
for me was my little sister, whowas 10 years younger than me,
(27:20):
that I didn't see since she wasnine years old.
She found me on Twitter.
She sent me a message.
that she wanted to come and seeme in London.
And that was very weird becausewhen she came, I felt like this
ball of light, like really aball of light.
And I hated myself, you know,and I was, oh my God.
(27:41):
That and my wife really savedme.
I thought doing my music,because that's the only place
where I was, you know, feelingvery good, was when I was
playing music.
But when I was not playingmusic, I was always depressed,
right, my whole life.
And I thought, okay, that'sbecause I don't make a living.
But the day I started making aliving and I started to have a
(28:01):
bit of success, you know, makingbig adverts and concerts and
kind of entering the showbizworld, I realized it didn't
change anything.
I realized, okay, now I've gotmy grand piano.
I've got, you know, my big flat.
And I was like, I still have mydepression.
I'm still miserable.
And it was getting worse andworse and worse.
(28:22):
I think it's important to statebecause Sometimes we think,
okay, when I have this, I'mhappy.
When I have a car, when I have ahouse, when I have...
And actually, that's veryuntrue.
It never ends because we'realways looking for something.
Always, always, always.
And I was very poor.
I was miserable.
Then I got a bit of money.
I was miserable.
(28:42):
And so the kind of end game forme was when my wife and my
sister, you know, it was thetipping point.
SPEAKER_02 (28:51):
Well, I'm glad you had those people that were
supportive of you and that lovedyou and cared about you.
I know that sometimes even whenwe're surrounded by people that
love us, if we've gone throughsome tough times like you have,
especially with the kind ofmental programming that you must
(29:11):
have had, you mentionedsomething about hating yourself
or not liking yourself at thispoint of life.
How did you find that self-love?
Because that really is thefoundation of opening up your
world.
SPEAKER_01 (29:27):
Well, through science and meditation.
Because understanding that wehave brainwaves, that we can
modulate them.
And I started again meditating.
And I didn't do actuallytranscendental.
I did the mindfulnessmeditation.
I think the The two ways Ibelieve are the easiest to
meditate is eithertranscendental, so you have a
(29:48):
mantra, and just repeat it.
That's it.
Now, for me, I was consciouslylistening, becoming conscious of
my breath, my breathing.
And I started doing it literallyevery single day.
And it changed a lot of things.
Because when you startmeditating, I would say
meditation is the door, youknow?
Because behind the door, youcan...
(30:11):
explore consciousness in manydifferent ways.
And that's very true, right?
Our intuition increases, youknow, our recollection, our
memory.
And science says that meditationis an amazing tool.
Lower inflammation increases thegray matter in the brain.
It helps cognitive, you know, somany, many things purely from a
(30:31):
scientific point of view.
And that's what I was interestedin because of the cult.
I was like, I don't wantspiritual bullshit.
I'm not interested in thatbecause you guys showed me that
this was not the way.
So through science, throughmeditation, I had spiritual
experience.
Maybe there is something.
(30:52):
And then I started findingmyself again.
And I was like, wow, the worldis beautiful.
I realized that the morechallenges we have and that we
can go through, the morerewarding it is.
For me, the ultimate meditationis to be on a school bus full of
kids and being able to focusbecause meditation is ultimately
(31:16):
focus.
And it helps for out-of-bodies.
It helps for lucid dreams.
But it also helps for my lifetoday with my kids.
It helps me with the way I doeverything because my mind is
not going to 60,000 or 70,000thoughts a day anymore.
I am mindful.
I realized that by doing it along time, I was like, okay, how
(31:37):
can I increase it?
So then I started making my ownbinaural beats, because you know
binaural beats, they can do insix months what Tibetan monks
said would take 10 years toachieve, but you need the right
binaural beats, but it's veryefficient.
SPEAKER_02 (31:51):
Can you tell me what that is?
SPEAKER_01 (31:53):
Binaural beats.
Okay, basically, binaural beatsmeans that we can help you
getting into this state ofconsciousness.
through our brain waves.
So right now, you and I, we'retalking, we are in beta waves.
If we have too much, and thisis, I think, very important to
know, if we have too much ofthese beta waves, then anxiety,
(32:17):
depression, you know, and mentalhealth issues.
And we can see them in brainscans.
And that's very interestingbecause alpha is the state with
a bit slower wave than the beta.
Alpha, it's when you're relaxed.
And then beta waves, And this isjust prior to sleep, by the way.
It's also when you are in theshower and you're like, oh my
(32:38):
God, time doesn't exist.
For me, that's one of the mostimportant ones because they are
also what are used in hypnosis.
So if you go into hypnosis, thenthe person slowly will start
being in theta waves where youare open to anything coming, you
see?
(32:58):
So it's fascinating.
And delta is When you sleep, butunconsciously.
So what do those binaural beats?
They're going to put you into astate that you want by creating
a pure tone.
And we basically send the signalto the corpus callosum, which is
responsible for our brain waves.
(33:20):
And after 10, 15, 20 minutes,your brain waves will go into
the given ones by the binauralbeats.
SPEAKER_02 (33:28):
I do understand what you're talking about as far as
getting to a state where yourbrain is relaxed.
I think that's when you canreceive messages when it's
relaxed.
And then when it's clear, clearfear or any kind of emotion that
will get in the way.
And that way we can receivemessages that maybe we need to
(33:48):
hear or maybe tap into theenergy that's out there that can
answer the questions that wemight be having or issues that
we're having.
Am I on the right track?
SPEAKER_01 (33:58):
Absolutely.
But don't get me wrong.
We do it with Binaural Beats.
But for example, I made a trackcalled Meditation 22.
It does the same thing becausemusic can help you get into the
stage.
But then we need to just let go,right?
Let go by focusing.
I mean, I do it on the breath,which is the meditation.
And then after a few minutes,when you are experienced, and
(34:19):
when I say experienced, it'sjust a few weeks of doing it a
bit every day.
We have to understand that,okay, you understand the
processes, but then the process,needs to be applied you know
every day it's a practice rightit's a muscle it's the same way
and it is very true that onceyou know how to meditate in a
few weeks in a few months thenyes absolutely your subconscious
(34:41):
you know will open basically andit's uncanny it's amazing
because basically you're just inthis state and then you're going
to hear things Even Einstein, Ithink it was the relativity
theory that he found by watchinga candlelight.
He was meditating on acandlelight, right?
So of course it works becauseour subconscious is extremely
(35:01):
powerful.
And it was also Freud who saidthe tip of the iceberg is the
conscious.
And underneath, we've got thebigger part, the iceberg.
And this is the unconscious.
SPEAKER_02 (35:14):
Yeah, I could see how that sense of freedom that
comes with meditation can alsobe that time where, Your brain
can heal and also just let go ofthe heaviness of the past.
So I am going to practice that.
And your music is so wonderfulfor that.
You know, you mentionedMeditation 22, but I know with
(35:36):
each song that I've listened to,there's a different emotion.
There's a different feeling thatI get from each one.
Very beautiful, you know,creates this atmosphere.
But Thank you so much forsharing all of these wonderful
solutions that we're going toneed to practice with your
music.
Is there anything else that youwould like to say about your
(35:57):
music or about mental health?
SPEAKER_01 (36:00):
I mean, I think just, you know, I think life is
beautiful.
And if we do it ourselves, ThenI think that's how we change the
world.
I mean, meditation is anextremely powerful tool and
science is really catching upnow.
Sometimes with spirituality, itcan be a bit scary because you
can go into weird stuff, whichI'm really not interested in.
But accessing spiritualitythrough science is great because
(36:25):
we have tools and you just needto apply them.
You try for, let's say, threemonths and then if it doesn't
work, you try another tool.
But doing that, it really,really worked for me.
because nothing else worked.
Being mindful changed my entirelife.
And now I hope I'm a good dad.
I can take care of my kids.
(36:46):
I can have time for myselfbecause I accept myself now.
You see what I mean?
I start to love myself, not asan ego thing, but I was like,
I'm okay.
I have my flaws, but I'm tryingto be a better person.
I'm trying to be more loving,more caring.
And just doing that, help me,and then I think he helps other
people.
So if we all do that, I think wechange the world in two seconds.
SPEAKER_02 (37:09):
I do believe that being mindful, I mean, I know it
took me a while to get to thatpoint, but it's really just
being conscious about ourthoughts, about our actions,
about what we eat, about how wetreat other people, just being
thoughtful as we go through ourlife.
And also appreciating, beinggrateful for this conversation
(37:30):
and the things that I've learnedfrom you and your story, which
is a story of survival.
Thank you so much for your time.
SPEAKER_01 (37:38):
Thank you, Mary.
Thank you so much.
And thank you for the kindness.
I can feel we're on the samewavelength.
So we need more, right?
SPEAKER_02 (37:45):
Next up, we have a doctor of clinical psychology, a
nationally recognized mentalhealth expert, who's also a
musician and a guitarist.
Our expert today is Dr.
Benjamin Miller, who is also thepresident of Wellbeing Trust, a
philanthropy focused on mentalhealth and addiction recovery
nationwide.
(38:07):
Wellbeing Trust has committed$30million across 65 programs to
improve mental health among ourstates and local communities.
Now let's hear Dr.
Benjamin Miller share why musiccan have such a profound effect
on our moods.
SPEAKER_00 (38:23):
I would say if anybody wanted to know the true
origin story of me, it has tobegin with the song.
I grew up in music.
I remember my dad sitting in thehallway playing his old acoustic
nylon string guitar, justputting us to sleep with songs
that were probably highlyinappropriate for kids our age.
I got my first$99 electricguitar, which I felt changed my
(38:46):
life because it gave me anoutlet.
When you're a teenager and youhave this angst, You don't know
what you're going to do when yougrow up.
You're surrounded by change.
You yourself are going throughchange.
It's nice to have a constant andmusic became that.
It became the thing I went to.
Some kids would come home andplay video games all day.
I would come home and play myguitar all day.
(39:07):
It just was that natural outlet.
And I have maintained that tothis day.
I mean, it's still naturallypart of my life.
I don't play music as much onthe road, but it's become a part
of me.
I
SPEAKER_02 (39:19):
know and you know that music makes us feel good.
whether it's a sad song or ifit's upbeat dance music.
But as a clinician, there arestatistics that show that music
can be medicine.
Can you give us some examplesand what you know of that?
SPEAKER_00 (39:36):
First of all, music has this unbelievable ability to
change your brain.
And we know this because we'vegot the fMRI studies that show
how parts of your brain areactivated differently based on
different types of music.
So there's something happeninghere that's triggering in a
positive way that benefits you.
Now, we also know from others'research that it can positively
(39:57):
impact your mood.
So not just is it changing yourbrain, but it's changing your
brain for good.
So some people are more relaxed.
There's been studies that lookat how people perform better on
tests when they listen to musicbeforehand.
But just anecdotally, I mean,for the listener, think about
that song that you go to thatgives you the most joy.
(40:17):
the song that you've probablygot a memory attached to, the
song that you remember feelingthose chills to the first time
it came on the radio or thefirst time your friend put it in
your ear, that to me is thepower of music on our mental
health.
It's how it changes our affect,how it changes how we feel.
So science aside, becausethere's a lot of it, it's really
(40:38):
about the subjective experiencethat we have with that.
So I think of it in a couple ofdifferent ways.
I think about how music is agreat reminder of experiences.
That song that was playing inthe background when we were at
our first dance.
That song that was playing inthe background at a funeral.
That song that was playing inthe background at a basketball
game.
Whatever it might be, weremember those moments and those
(40:59):
songs have an extra specialmeaning to it.
The second thing is just how youfeel.
You know, sometimes if I'mtrying to get pumped up, we did
an event for members of Congresslast week.
If I'm trying to get pumped upfor Congress, then, you know, I
might put on a song that justgets me amped, you know.
It's me feeling good.
It's probably one of these songsthat I grew up with that I've
(41:20):
had kind of circulating in mybrain all day.
And I wanted to just listen toit out loud.
So music does all these thingsat once.
And if you cut it out of mylife, probably your life too,
there'd be a big hold there.
SPEAKER_02 (41:32):
Right.
It's attached to a lot of ourmemories and kind of on the flip
side too.
Sometimes a sad song can bringus to a sad place or a darker
place.
So we really have to beconscious of the music and the
things that we put into our mindand our brains.
You know, listening to Ryopi'sinterview, his music is very
calming and meditative, but hegrew up in a cult and there was
(41:56):
a lot of abuse.
What about his story kind ofstood out for you as a
psychologist?
SPEAKER_00 (42:02):
Well, I think a couple of things stand out.
One was really his supportsystem.
I think it was his wife thatencouraged him to get into yoga.
That was one of the examples.
And how that really initiatedthis path towards recovery,
where he began to do things thatwere really better for himself
and learn how to be still atpeace, you know, at one.
(42:23):
And I think that the inspirationfrom things like yoga and then
writing something as beautifullyeloquent, which I listened to
today, the Meditation 22, Thatwas just like, wow, what an
inspirational success of havinga support system that recognizes
you're not doing your best.
Go try something different andsee how that helps.
So that was number one.
You know, the other thing thatstands out, number two, is just
(42:46):
how he was describing how heuses certain beats in his
meditations and the wholescience behind that.
Like how you can become calmbased on certain cadence.
It just helps you take thatbreath.
I loved how he described beingmindful and being able to be in
those moments did change hislife.
SPEAKER_02 (43:07):
He did mention something called binaural beats.
SPEAKER_00 (43:10):
That's the word.
SPEAKER_02 (43:11):
That was the first time I had heard that.
But apparently it's soundtherapy that relaxes you.
And also he mentionedmeditation.
I was wondering if you had anythoughts on meditation or
binaural beats and how that kindof affects us emotionally.
SPEAKER_00 (43:28):
So I can't speak as much to the beach thing because
that was new to me.
But in terms of meditation, Ithink there's something very
powerful about the ability to bestill and in the moment.
In a society right now, we'reconstantly bombarded this
constant barrage of information.
You know, you can't look at yourTwitter feed without seeing the
latest, greatest thing that'shappening.
(43:49):
You know, we describe it as doomscrolling where people are
constantly just looking throughthe next thing that's, you know,
not necessarily great in life.
Like we don't ever just take amoment and be present.
You know, when you're with yourfriends at dinner, you're
probably on your phone on theside.
Meditation helps correct some ofthat.
It helps bring us to a placethat we can set all that aside
and focus in on that one thingin front of us, that one
(44:11):
thought, as simple as a breath.
And that grounding sense ofpresence, that grounding sense
of just being in the moment, isactually so good for us.
It helps us not only feel moreat ease, it helps us recover
physically, It helps us feelbetter emotionally.
And most of us don't know how todo it.
It's a wildest thing.
(44:31):
Now, ironically, musicians, theycould get into that meditative
state just by playing a song infront of thousands of people.
They can be focused on that onething and not the 12 other
things that are going on in ourlife.
And I find that to be such abeautiful sentiment that if more
of us embraced, imagine whatthat would do for our society.
(44:52):
I think about my kids.
Like my kids are raised in ageneration where Wi-Fi was
coursing through their veins,you know, as soon as they came
out into this world.
Like they don't know a world tonot have email, to not have
internet.
And so are they going to have aharder time being able to focus
and have that meditative senseof calm and direction?
(45:12):
I hope so.
I mean, I try and teach it tothem.
SPEAKER_02 (45:16):
Ryopi, he did talk about how meditation is slows
down the racing mind.
He was talking about howsometimes he would get OCD and
he would think of numbers andthey just keep going in his
head.
And we all get to a pointsometimes where we're stressed
out and we have a hundred thingson our plate.
But being in that moment, evenlistening to music, being at a
(45:37):
live show, music somehow pushesall of that aside so that you
can be in the moment.
And there is something veryjoyful about that and
restorative.
SPEAKER_00 (45:49):
Yeah, I like to think of it as like a warm
blanket.
It surrounds you.
You know, when I'm at a concert,which I love to go to, you can't
escape the wall of sound.
It's all around you.
And it's not just the feeling ofthe sound and how it really does
help you focus on that moment,but it's also the people.
You know, we're inherentlysocial creatures and we love to
be around other folks and tohave shared experiences.
(46:11):
And so when you're with thecrowd, when you're with your
friends, your family, and you'reexperiencing something together,
there's even more power to that.
So it's a warm blanket withfriends.
So I can't wait for that momentagain.
SPEAKER_02 (46:22):
To me, it's one of the greatest natural highs that
you can get because it's notjust the artist, but it's
everybody on the same pagefeeling the same kind of thing.
And it really is a wonderfulfeeling that can sometimes last
throughout the week.
SPEAKER_00 (46:38):
And let me follow that.
Let me ask you a question.
I mean, do you remember yourfirst concert that you ever went
to?
SPEAKER_02 (46:43):
I do.
Oh.
Oh my gosh.
I was in elementary school.
I went to see Minnie Ripertonand the Spinners.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
She had a voice that, you know,she had these high, high octaves
and she could hit the low pointstoo.
She had an incredible range.
So something I still rememberand still cherish.
SPEAKER_00 (47:04):
And you probably remember who you were with.
You remember you just describedthe song I mean, those things
are so meaningful to us.
And music is that thing thatbrought us together.
I'll never forget.
I went with my grandmother,because that's what I did back
in the day, to see B.B.
King and Bobby Blue Bland.
I think I was like 13.
(47:25):
How uncool to go to a show withyour grandmother.
But that's what I did.
And I remember that so well tothis day.
And sometimes even putting onhis music, it takes me back to
those very happy times when shewas with us and And I could have
those moments of just being kindof in that presence of not only
great music, that feeling ofthat natural high, as you
(47:46):
described, but also surroundedby loved ones.
SPEAKER_02 (47:49):
And I think there's also a great appreciation for
the people that encourage yourmusic or maybe that give you
that first guitar or take you tothat first show.
There's just something specialabout it.
It creates a really nice bondand a great memory between, you
know, you and the other person.
You know, oftentimes it's afamily member or friends.
But you know, one thing I'mreally impressed about with you
(48:10):
is that you are the president ofWellbeing Trust.
And I wanted to know some thingsthat your philanthropy is doing
to improve the accessibility ofmental health for all.
SPEAKER_00 (48:22):
Well, thank you for asking that.
So one of the fundamentalproblems that we try and solve
as a foundation is that we thinkfolks have to work way too hard
to get help.
I don't care if you're the mostfamous musician all the way down
to a person that has nothing.
it is too hard to find peoplethat can help you.
So we call it fragmentation.
And it's a problem that's beenso pervasive over the years that
(48:44):
people just stop trying.
They stop trying to find peoplethat can help them.
So what we do is we look forways that we can solve that
problem.
So we think about it as this.
We need to bring mental healthto where people are.
From the concert venues to thecoffee shops to Capitol Hill,
there's an opportunity for us tobetter integrate mental health
into places that people actuallyshow up.
There's also an opportunity forus, each of us, to learn how to
(49:07):
show up for each other, toembrace basic skills, to know
how to listen, to empathize, tointervene when appropriate with
friends and loved ones that areexperiencing mental health or
substance misuse issues.
We've created a society thatstays away from that.
We don't want to talk about it.
We pretend like it's not a realthing.
And so we say, well, I don't dothat.
Maybe you should talk to aprofessional.
(49:29):
And I think that it's anopportunity, and this is what we
focus on as an organization, toteach people those skills so
that it is not a foreignconcept.
That if you're in a band andyour lead guitarist is
describing how they're reallyhaving a hard time with
something, that instead of justsaying that sounds tough, you
say that sounds tough and I'dlike to help you with it.
Being there is huge.
SPEAKER_02 (49:51):
Absolutely.
Being there, even sometimes justsitting with somebody And, you
know, asking a simple questionlike, how can I help?
You know, sometimes we may notunderstand about depression or
anxiety, but we don'tnecessarily have to live it in
order to be compassionate.
You know, I took a course calledMental Health First Aid.
And it basically is talkingabout what you're talking about,
(50:13):
which is educating people,giving them some general
information about how to dealwith mental health issues and
how you can help and support.
What do you think about that?
Because everybody knows aboutCPR training.
Yeah.
But not too many people knowabout mental health first aid.
SPEAKER_00 (50:29):
It's a great program and we've supported it in the
past.
It really teaches you how torecognize what's going on in
someone's life, to be empathic,to listen, to reflect back to
them on what's going on.
You know, where we think it's animportant value is that it gives
us a baseline.
for understanding how toapproach mental health.
Where I think it can do more, wehave to be able to go beyond
(50:50):
just being there for someone andlistening and recognizing the
signs and symptoms.
We actually need to be able tohelp, to intervene, to provide
an additional layer of support.
And that's where I think all ofus have an opportunity to do
just a bit more, to know thatnext thing to say beyond just
the empathic statement.
And I think that's where mentalhealth first aid has taught us
all so much, but to yourbeautiful point, There's so many
(51:11):
other things in life, Heimlichmaneuver, CPR, you name it,
where we know what to dophysically.
But when it comes to theemotions, the mental health part
of us, most of us just turn itoff.
We say, oh, well, that's notsomething that I'm comfortable
with.
And so that only adds to thestigma, the social layer of
discomfort that unfortunately,here we are in 2022 and our
(51:33):
society still, we still don'tlike to talk about it.
SPEAKER_02 (51:37):
Right.
I know with Wellbeing Trust, youalso focus on addiction
recovery.
What are some of the projectsthat you're working on that
involve addiction treatment andrecovery?
SPEAKER_00 (51:47):
We've been, for the last four years, been looking at
why people are dying from drugoverdose, from alcohol
consumption, from suicide.
And addiction is really builtinto that.
You know, we don't separate outmental health and addiction.
We see these things as together.
Because if you only addressaddiction without looking at
some underlying issues, thenyou're missing the whole point
of comprehensive care.
(52:08):
So we've been studying how canwe be more comprehensive, more
proactive in addressing peoplewho might be experiencing
addiction.
And there's a couple of thingsthat stand out there.
One is that there is majorinconsistencies in how we treat
addiction in this country.
And I hate to say this, but it'svery true.
If you're a person that'sexperiencing some type of
(52:29):
addiction or even a mentalhealth crisis, What you might
get varies extremely based onwhere you live, based on your
insurance, based on a variety offactors.
And we feel like there's anopportunity to change that.
We worked with the AmericanSociety of Addiction Medicine to
create a much clearer roadmap ofhow states can pursue strategies
(52:49):
that make it a lot easier forpeople to know what to expect
for addiction care.
The final thing here is that weare trying to normalize how
people are discussing mentalhealth and addiction.
SPEAKER_02 (53:00):
You've spoke a lot about well-being trust.
Is there anything else that youwould like to say about what
you're doing or about mentalhealth in general?
SPEAKER_00 (53:07):
Well, we're one of many organizations that are
working on the issue of mentalhealth.
But I think that what we'redoing that's so unique is how we
address issues of mental health.
We think it's fundamentally inour communities.
We have to go to where peoplelive.
We have to look at issues likehousing and transportation and
employment.
And make sure that folks havethe basic necessities or else it
(53:28):
doesn't matter how great carebecomes because they still don't
feel like they have the barenecessities.
Secondly, we look at things likecoverage, our health insurance.
Now, if you don't have healthinsurance, there's a very high
likelihood you're never going toseek care because it's going to
be so expensive.
We're working to change that.
And then finally, the carepiece.
Now, how do we make sure that webring mental health to the
places that people are?
(53:49):
And most recently, we've beentalking a lot with our friends
on the Hill about how do you getmore mental health into schools
where our kids are.
So we address that entirecontinuum in a unique way.
And I feel like that does makeus special.
And for the listeners that arejoining us today, I welcome them
to come to our website,wellbeingtrust.org, take a look
at what we're doing, getinvolved.
We love having partnerships withamazing people like you.
SPEAKER_02 (54:11):
A big thank you to our musical guest, Rio P, and
our mental health expert, Dr.
Benjamin Miller.
For more information on Rio P,Visit RioPMusic.com and see RioP
on tour starting March 14, 2022.
Follow RioP on his socials atRioPMusic and stay tuned to
listen to a clip of SweetAwakening from RioP's latest
(54:34):
album entitled Bliss.
For more information on Dr.
Benjamin Miller and theWellbeing Trust, visit
WellbeingTrust.org and followWellbeing Trust on their socials
at Wellbeing Trust.
So until next time, be brave,ask for help, and be persistent
in finding the mental help thatyou need.
(55:25):
Check Your Head Podcast iskindly supported and partnered
with Sweet Relief MusiciansFund, DBSA San Gabriel Valley,
Earshot Media, and Lemon TreeStudios in Los Angeles.
Visit checkyourheadpodcast.comwhere we have over 100 solutions
for mental health.
Be our friends on social mediaat Check Your Head Podcast.
(55:46):
Watch us on YouTube and supportus with a kind donation on
checkyourheadpodcast.com.
Check Your Head podcast issponsored by a 501c3 nonprofit
with all donations being taxdeductible.
Thank you for your support andthank you for listening.
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